Modern Horizons Spoilers

[Finn]

Get your LEDs now

Oh crap. That could be a problem, actually. Despite the bad interaction LED has with Force of Will, I still think you guys hit the nail directly with that one. This is not just commenting on a new card anymore. It has quickly gone to a disgusting deck that brings back memories.

Isn’t there an improved Megrim now?

[BenBleiweiss]

Oh crap. That could be a problem, actually. Despite the bad interaction LED has with Force of Will, I still think you guys hit the nail directly with that one. This is not just commenting on a new card anymore. It has quickly gone to a disgusting deck that brings back memories.

Isn’t there an improved Megrim now?

Liliana's Caress

also

Narset

[PirateKing]

Come on Wizards. If a fixed Time Twister is fair game, how is a fixed Deathrite not?

:rolleyes:

Yeah sure, just wait 25 years. It's coming.

This set is absurd.

[Poron]

dredge deck with LED and new Timetwister can close the game in the same turn

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

https://i.imgur.com/Q4J96cl.png

Welp, time for some Dredge shenanigans!

[Barook]

dredge deck with LED and new Timetwister can close the game in the same turn
Wouldn't it shuffle back all dredgers into the library before you could draw your cards to dredge? :eyebrow:

[Poron]

Wouldn't it shuffle back all dredgers into the library before you could draw your cards to dredge? :eyebrow:

Gosh :rolleyes:

[Glass House]

https://i.imgur.com/RT1CXde.jpg


Love, love, love this. Could this be worth tinkering with in Burn? You don't even have to cut any business spells, just trim a couple of lands. It even has cycling itself so you can safely run more than one.

[Mr. Safety]

Come on Wizards. If a fixed Time Twister is fair game, how is a fixed Deathrite not?

:rolleyes:

We're not done yet...

[Barook]

Come on Wizards. If a fixed Time Twister is fair game, how is a fixed Deathrite not?

:rolleyes:
A fixed Deathrite? For what purpose? I would very okay with a Jund Noble Hiearch, though.

As for EoE, it doesn't even need discard to be fucking stupid. Entomb or Intuition work just fine to get it online. And Narset is already good enough on her own. I have a bad feeling about this... :rolleyes:

[Cire]

This set is officially "not fucking around"

https://i.redd.it/50mwxgo7e6131.png

Ummm ... quiet speculation... turn 2, time twister every turn for the next 3 turns?

[morgan_coke]

A fixed Deathrite? For what purpose? I would very okay with a Jund Noble Hiearch, though.

As for EoE, it doesn't even need discard to be fucking stupid. Entomb or Intuition work just fine to get it online. And Narset is already good enough on her own. I have a bad feeling about this... :rolleyes:

I think their theory was that if Day's Undoing didn't accomplish much, this should be fine too?

[chunderbucket]

Love, love, love this. Could this be worth tinkering with in Burn? You don't even have to cut any business spells, just trim a couple of lands. It even has cycling itself so you can safely run more than one.

Spending 2 mana for a do-nothing is not really what Burn wants to be doing. If I wanted to turn lands into gas I'd run one of the new red canopy lands.

[BenBleiweiss]

Ummm ... quiet speculation... turn 2, time twister every turn for the next 3 turns?

Wouldn't the first one shuffle the other two back into your deck?

[Barook]

Wouldn't the first one shuffle the other two back into your deck?
Yes. People need to RTFC.

[H]

A fixed Deathrite? For what purpose? I would very okay with a Jund Noble Hiearch, though.

For there to be a real reason to run Green over Red?

I mean, it doesn't have to be an extra copy of Deathrite, per se. But I did like that Deathrite gave a reason to be in Green, helped curtain the power of Snapcaster, and was incidental maindeckable grave-hate. Anything that can tap for G/B and is better than BoP (that is, not such a terrible later top deck) would be a nice thing to me, it would also be nice if helped with those other things too though.

[bruizar]

The problem is, twister is not a good card. Legendary status, but not good.

[Scott]

Only notable because it's a new storm card even though it's the top notch of the Storm Scale. Maybe one day we'll get a new dredger in a non-Standard set.

Instant
You gain 3 life.
Storm



https://i.imgur.com/Q4J96cl.png

Called that one and it turns out that "one day" is two days.

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

Storm, Dredge, Ninjitsu are all back, but where is Grandeur, Aura Swap, and Bushido!?

[Final Fortune]

Yes. People need to RTFC.

Sure, but it's still putting 3 Time Twisters into your "hand" in order to out threat permission, turn 1 Quiet Speculation into turn 2 Twister, turn 3 Twister, turn 4 Twister is going to exceed any deck's counters.

Does this card shuffle itself back into your deck when it resolves, or does it resolve and then put itself into your graveyard? At worst this is an upgrade over Diminishing Returns for Burning Wish, you don't have to maintain priority and sacrifice LED to cast it over sacrificing LED after you've resolved Burning Wish; you get to play LED and then Jedi Mind Trick them into not countering the Burnish Wish so that you can grab Empty the Warrens.

[sco0ter]

https://i.imgur.com/Q4J96cl.png

This with Liquimetal Coating 😁

[Glass House]

Spending 2 mana for a do-nothing is not really what Burn wants to be doing. If I wanted to turn lands into gas I'd run one of the new red canopy lands.
I agree that every spell Burn casts should be dealing damage, but this could be useful grindy matches. For a while I tried the RedDeckWinning tech of a one-of Molten Vortex in the SB - as an alternative to Lavamancer in a budget no-fetches list - and it performed decently. I can see this serving a similar purpose, even if it only has a home in budget lists.
But I always itch to experiment new cards and it could very well be that my brewer instinct is making me overly optimistic. :tongue:

[Obferraz]

https://i.imgur.com/RT1CXde.jpg

EDITS - Have image links!

I was thinking in a GW lands with hall od heliod's, but, boy, whata dredge/draw engine

[rufus]

...
Does this card shuffle itself back into your deck when it resolves, or does it resolve and then put itself into your graveyard?
...

If you flash it back it's exiled. If you cast it from the hand it ends up in the graveyard. Lots of people in this thread are also forgetting that it empties the graveyard, so finding multiples isn't so great.

[morgan_coke]

So I'm not remotely a combo player, but just looking at the design of Flashback Timetwister, I'm thinking:

4x LED
4x Petal
4x SSG
4x ESG
4x Dark Ritual
4x Rite of Flame
4x Manamorphose
4x Cabal Ritual
4x Entomb
4x Quiet Speculation
4x Deep Analysis
4x Flashback Twister
4x Tendrils of Agony
4x Goblin Charbelcher
2x Land Grant
1x Bayou
1x Taiga

That seems like it wins on turn 1 a lot of the time, but I could be wildly off there. Like I said, not my personal type of deck, but it's a ridiculously easy concept to figure out, especially given the interactions with LED and Petal.

I mean, Entomb+Spec gives you an incredibly good shot at always getting a copy, and those two tutors reset themselves on every cycle, so you go 12x chances to find it, to 11x chances to find it, .. pretty good odds in other words.

[Final Fortune]

If you flash it back it's exiled. If you cast it from the hand it ends up in the graveyard. Lots of people in this thread are also forgetting that it empties the graveyard, so finding multiples isn't so great.

That is bat shit, it turns a tutor + 2 LEDs into 2 bombs[; the first LED helps pay for the 6cmc and if it gets countered then you can flash it back with the second LED turning your mana into business. Wow, that's my kind of card board right there.

[Matsu]

So I'm not remotely a combo player, but just looking at the design of Flashback Timetwister, I'm thinking:

4x LED
4x Petal
4x SSG
4x ESG
4x Dark Ritual
4x Rite of Flame
4x Manamorphose
4x Cabal Ritual
4x Entomb
4x Quiet Speculation
4x Deep Analysis
4x Flashback Twister
4x Tendrils of Agony
4x Goblin Charbelcher
2x Land Grant
1x Bayou
1x Taiga

That seems like it wins on turn 1 a lot of the time, but I could be wildly off there. Like I said, not my personal type of deck, but it's a ridiculously easy concept to figure out, especially given the interactions with LED and Petal.

I mean, Entomb+Spec gives you an incredibly good shot at always getting a copy, and those two tutors reset themselves on every cycle, so you go 12x chances to find it, to 11x chances to find it, .. pretty good odds in other words.

Can you drop Tendrils for the new red Enchantment that do DD?

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

I just threw a what-if storm list together with not-Time Twister and I've gone off turn one 8 times in a row. I think there's a new belcher in town.
Which is fine, since a belcher that loses to graveyard hate is A-OK

[Ataraxy]

I just threw a what-if storm list together with not-Time Twister and I've gone off turn one 8 times in a row. I think there's a new belcher in town.
Which is fine, since a belcher that loses to graveyard hate is A-OK

Seems interesting. What is your list ?

[Lava Snacks]

Woah, I just got caught in a Timetwister to the future, but I'm back now.

https://i.imgur.com/Od3a0SU.png

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

Seems interesting. What is your list ?

Basically storm with mox diamond, fewer cantrips, and this.

[mistercakes]

So I'm not remotely a combo player, but just looking at the design of Flashback Timetwister, I'm thinking:

4x LED
4x Petal
4x SSG
4x ESG
4x Dark Ritual
4x Rite of Flame
4x Manamorphose
4x Cabal Ritual
4x Entomb
4x Quiet Speculation
4x Deep Analysis
4x Flashback Twister
4x Tendrils of Agony
4x Goblin Charbelcher
2x Land Grant
1x Bayou
1x Taiga

That seems like it wins on turn 1 a lot of the time, but I could be wildly off there. Like I said, not my personal type of deck, but it's a ridiculously easy concept to figure out, especially given the interactions with LED and Petal.

I mean, Entomb+Spec gives you an incredibly good shot at always getting a copy, and those two tutors reset themselves on every cycle, so you go 12x chances to find it, to 11x chances to find it, .. pretty good odds in other words.

i think quiet spec isn't really needed here, nor deep analysis. stick to having a goblins plan too. adding 3 maindeck twisters and 1 sb twister for a pretty stock belcher list is great here. i think with 4 chancellors or pact of negation, the deck has some legs again.

not sure if it's better than something like TES or Ruby Storm, but it seems like any deck using LED has some potential here.

i'd keep it pretty simple with belcher:

// 60 Maindeck
// 16 Artifact
4 Goblin Charbelcher
4 Lotus Petal
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Chrome Mox

// 12 Creature
4 Tinder Wall
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Simian Spirit Guide

// 13 Instant
4 Desperate Ritual
4 Seething Song
4 Manamorphose
1 Entomb

// 1 Land
1 Taiga

// 18 Sorcery
4 Burning Wish
4 Rite of Flame
4 Land Grant
3 Timetwister
3 Empty the Warrens

sb: 1 twister, 1 empty and some other usual suspects.

[Final Fortune]

How much of the set is their left to spoil at this rate?

[H]

How much of the set is their left to spoil at this rate?

According to MTGS, we already have:

15/15 Mythic Rares
49/53 + 1 Rares
59/80 Uncommons
40/101 Commons
5/5 Basic Lands
166/254 + 1 Total

So, 4 rares, 21 uncommons and 61 commons left. (The +1 is Flusterstorm, because its the Buy-a-box.)

[Matsu]

We have Captain Sisay in white, Yawgmoth in black, Urza in blue
can we expect the rest of the Weatherlight?
Maybe finally an amazing Gerard.

[Final Fortune]

According to MTGS, we already have:

15/15 Mythic Rares
49/53 + 1 Rares
59/80 Uncommons
40/101 Commons
5/5 Basic Lands
166/254 + 1 Total

So, 4 rares, 21 uncommons and 61 commons left. (The +1 is Flusterstorm, because its the Buy-a-box.)

Man, with the quality of the cards they've been spoiling so far that is a lot to look forward to, I think this is the first time I've wanted to invest in boxes of a set in awhile.

[Fox]

We have Captain Sisay in white, Yawgmoth in black, Urza in blue
can we expect the rest of the Weatherlight?
Maybe finally an amazing Gerard.

Don't you worry, they'll probably print Master of Arms where activated ability prevents defender from dealing damage.

[Ronald Deuce]

All we need is a Rorix Bladewing to ruin everyone's day.

Nah, in all seriousness, I'm legit PUMPED. Set's hotter than a truckful of Texas chili during a nuclear exchange.

[Barook]

Which is fine, since a belcher that loses to graveyard hate is A-OK
Unless you have cards like LotV or RiP, you don't time to respond if your opponent dumps it into the yard (e.g. with Entomb, Careful Study, etc - LED is an exception due to how it works), holds priority and then immediately casts it.

[Scott]

Thoughts? My first snap judgment is Slivers could have a taxing effect which would be helpful for them.

https://i.imgur.com/WNAnd54.png

[Barook]

My first thought was Wu Death & Taxes. This card taxes EVERYTHING - removal, targeted planeswalker activations, Tendril copies. Port and Wasteland activations, etc. -even Jitte removal now costs shittons of mana. And it stacks. Always being castable with Cavern of Souls is just the icing on the cake.

[Final Fortune]

Thoughts? My first snap judgment is Slivers could have a taxing effect which would be helpful for them.

https://i.imgur.com/WNAnd54.png


Wizard tribal could be fun as well.

[MechTactical]

Where is our fixed sdt?

[Poron]

Wizard tribal could be fun as well.

Totally..

Meddling Mage
Dark Confidant
Spellstutter Sprite
Vendilion Clique
Snapcaster Mage
Delver of Secrets
Burning Prophet
Arcanist Dreadhorde
Mystic Archeologist
Qasali Pridemage
Siren Stormtaker

[colo]

I am so gonna let this thing rock my D&T boat! What an amazing card!

[Poron]

with Vial and Cavern you possibly don’t even have to alter the manabase for a 3of

[Mr. Safety]

Thoughts? My first snap judgment is Slivers could have a taxing effect which would be helpful for them.

https://i.imgur.com/WNAnd54.png

I'm pretty sure the most relevant tribe this goes into starts with an 'h' and ends with 'umans'.

[mistercakes]

Slivers is pretty unique with crystalline effect. (I suppose faeries can also do this but it's worse.)

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

I'm pretty sure the most relevant tribe this goes into starts with an 'h' and ends with 'umans'.

Homunlumans?

[jmlima]

Homunlumans?

Hippopumans.

[Barook]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D70RrZqXYAAovMh.png

Best way to dump artifacts into the yard?

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D70RrZqXYAAovMh.png

Best way to dump artifacts into the yard?
Mesmeric Orb - Besalt monolith?

[Poron]

you need a Time Warp with flashback for that

[Mr. Safety]

you need a Time Warp with flashback for that




Hold my beer...

http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=189649&type=card

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D70RrZqXYAAovMh.png

Best way to dump artifacts into the yard?

Treasure hunt, 24 artifact lands, new mulligan rule, and your discard step.
I call it: All land belcher.

[Barook]

Damping matrix - Besalt monolith?
You probably meant Mesmeric Orb, but yeah, that works.

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

You probably meant Mesmeric Orb, but yeah, that works.

My bad

[Barook]

More spoilers:

http://mythicspoiler.com/mh1/cards/geomancersgambit.jpg http://mythicspoiler.com/mh1/cards/ephemerate.jpg http://mythicspoiler.com/mh1/cards/faerieseer.jpg

[Poron]

Hold my beer...

http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=189649&type=card

how do you summon that from GY?

[morgan_coke]

This looks innocous, but I feel like it will be an issue eventually:

Universal Automaton 1
Artifact Creature - Shapeshifter
Changeling
1/1

Common

Also, this is just kind of hilarious if you remember Recall

Reap the Past XRG
Sorcery
Return X cards at random from your graveyard to your hand. Exile Reap

Rare

[Barook]

This looks innocous, but I feel like it will be an issue eventually:

Universal Automaton 1
Artifact Creature - Shapeshifter
Changeling
1/1
Oh no, more cheap Eldrazi to drop with Eye of Ugin! :really:

I also misread Ephemerate, thinking it had Retrace instead of Rebound, making it pretty meh.

Edit: More cards:

http://mythicspoiler.com/mh1/cards/everdream.jpg http://mythicspoiler.com/mh1/cards/mindrake.jpg http://mythicspoiler.com/mh1/cards/watcherfortomorrow.jpg http://mythicspoiler.com/mh1/cards/smitinghelix.jpg

[BenBleiweiss]

Fixed Dark Depths. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D70m58EW4AEiK1D.png

[Gheizen64]

Geomancer's gambit could have easily cost RR , not sure why a worse spreading Seas had to cost 3. Well beside the fact that Red has to suck.

[rufus]

Magmatic Sinkhole (5 damage to creature or planeswalker, R5 delve) is going to see fringe play. Delve is just that good.

[Phoenix Ignition]

Fixed Dark Depths. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D70m58EW4AEiK1D.png

But why is it blue?

[BenBleiweiss]

But why is it blue?

Because it's sad it isn't a land.

[Bosque]

The changeling one drop to enable the changeling double strike for 2 mana on curve is here (Universal Automaton). I think with all the changelings in this set, there may be some interesting developments coming with a number of tribal decks. I could see Humans, Spirits, Wizards, Slivers, Merfolk and probably a pile of others that I'm forgetting use some of these cards.

[ReAnimator]

But why is it blue?


Because this enchantment is the spell that is sleeping Marit Lage and keeping her subdued.
Break the enchantment and she wakes up all angry.

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

Fixed Dark Depths. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D70m58EW4AEiK1D.png

Looks like a change to token templating?

[Mr. Safety]

how do you summon that from GY?

It doesn't have flashback but it's a repeatable Time Warp, and cheap in a deck that already wants tons of artifacts in it. It isn't perfect, but it synergizes with Mirrodin Besieged by conveniently putting artifacts into the graveyard to satisfy it's 'win the game' clause.

[Mr. Safety]

Magmatic Sinkhole (5 damage to creature or planeswalker, R5 delve) is going to see fringe play. Delve is just that good.

Izzet Phoenix probably wants this card, it's better than Lightning Axe in modern. I'm not sure but it might be playable as a 1-of in UR Delver for Legacy.

[Poron]

overall for 5 with Thopter Foundry combo wins on the spot

[morgan_coke]

overall for 5 with Thopter Foundry combo wins on the spot

Tribute Mage tutors for Thopter/Sword/Time Sieve. That's a lotta stuff. Could probably make a pretty solid deck out of that without too much trouble.

[Poron]

agreed. for that cc you can get a lot of stuff. What about we write a list?

4 Tezzeret, AoB
3 Jace
4 2cc artifact Mage
2 Sword of the Meek
3 Foundry
1 Spyglass
2 Time Sieve
4FoW
4 chalice
4 Thirst for Knowledge
3 Trinisphere
3 Karn 1
3 Karn 2

fabricate?
some heavy combo I am forgetting?

with 10 Pws I would play some Damnation

[the Thin White Duke]

But why is it blue?

Because: why not? Blue is the least broken color, right?:rolleyes: (couldn't resist)

Probably because U has the weakest snow representation?

[Final Fortune]

Watcher for Tomorrow looks kind of playable, that's basically Impulse with a body for Faerie Stompy? A whole lot of good Wizard creatures in this set so far (including Changelings)

[BenBleiweiss]

https://i.redd.it/fhmhc8tfqd131.png

[Ace/Homebrew]

Seb's art is amazing.

[FTW]

how do you summon that from GY?

Sharuum the Hegemon
The same way FourHorsemen always worked, except this time it doesn't need infinite time.


4 Basalt Monolith
4 Mesmeric Orb

4 Narcomoeba
1 Dread Return
1 Sharuum the Hegemon
1 Time Sieve

+2 artifacts and Mirrodin Beseiged in play. What an easy combo!

Instead of Sharuum and Time Sieve, you could just animate Silent Sentinel (with Anger in the graveyard). Attack and put Mirrodin Beseiged into play from graveyard, then win on your end step.

Unfortunately this is strictly worse than just using Angel of Glory's Rise into LabMan+Azami.

[Glass House]

https://i.redd.it/fhmhc8tfqd131.png

That looks groovy when paired with Flickerwisp.

[FTW]

Treasure hunt, 24 artifact lands, new mulligan rule, and your discard step.
I call it: All land belcher.

Oops All Lands!

//Lands: 52
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Vault of Whispers
4 Ancient Den
4 Great Furnace
4 Tree of Tales
4 Darksteel Citadel
4 Underground Sea
4 Volcanic Island
4 Maze of Ith
2 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
2 Glacial Chasm
12 Island

//Spells: 8
4 Treasure Hunt
4 Mirrodin Besieged


This deck seems terrible and also unnecessarily expensive relative to the win%. You can't run any mana rocks or protection or Treasure Hunt gets worse. Even Serum Powder is probably worse than a land, because it may help you start with Treasure Hunt but it also makes resolving Treasure Hunt worse.


What about Cheerios?

//Initial Mana Sources: 19
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Land Grant
4 Lotus Petal
4 Mox Opal
2 Taiga
1 Tropical Island

//Artifacts: 29
4 Ornithopter
4 Phyrexian Walker
4 Shield Sphere
4 Phyrexian Marauder
4 Chamber Sentry
4 Walking Ballista
4 Hangarback Walker
1 Memnite

//Spells: 12
4 Glimpse of Nature
4 Gamble
2 Scapegoat
1 Grapeshot
1 Mirrodin Besieged


Most of the 0cc artifacts bin themselves. The mulligan rule and Gamble make it easier to start with turn 1 Glimpse.

[bruizar]

Oops All Lands!

//Lands: 52
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Vault of Whispers
4 Ancient Den
4 Great Furnace
4 Tree of Tales
4 Darksteel Citadel
4 Underground Sea
4 Volcanic Island
4 Maze of Ith
2 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
2 Glacial Chasm
12 Island

//Spells: 8
4 Treasure Hunt
4 Mirrodin Besieged


This deck seems terrible and also unnecessarily expensive relative to the win%. You can't run any mana rocks or protection or Treasure Hunt gets worse. Even Serum Powder is probably worse than a land, because it may help you start with Treasure Hunt but it also makes resolving Treasure Hunt worse.


What about Cheerios?

//Initial Mana Sources: 19
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Land Grant
4 Lotus Petal
4 Mox Opal
2 Taiga
1 Tropical Island

//Artifacts: 29
4 Ornithopter
4 Phyrexian Walker
4 Shield Sphere
4 Phyrexian Marauder
4 Chamber Sentry
4 Walking Ballista
4 Hangarback Walker
1 Memnite

//Spells: 12
4 Glimpse of Nature
4 Gamble
2 Scapegoat
1 Grapeshot
1 Mirrodin Besieged


Most of the 0cc artifacts bin themselves. The mulligan rule and Gamble make it easier to start with turn 1 Glimpse.
Id play Arcbound Ravager to bin faster.

[joven]

But why is it blue?

Ice is mostly in Blue thematically.

[Phoenix Ignition]

Izzet Phoenix probably wants this card, it's better than Lightning Axe in modern. I'm not sure but it might be playable as a 1-of in UR Delver for Legacy.

I thought Lightning Axe was used for the "free" discard effect.

[Barook]

That looks groovy when paired with Flickerwisp.
Flickerwisp was also the first thing on my mind.

However, I just realized this is also amazing with Recruiter of the Guard - tutor for something every turn, and Recruiter can even grab it to begin with. SFM also works, but the things it can grab are limited.

It will also wreck havoc on your opponent's creatures when combined with Palace Jailer while getting two +1/+1 counter in the meantime.

[BenBleiweiss]

Flickerwisp was also the first thing on my mind.

However, I just realized this is also amazing with Recruiter of the Guard - tutor for something every turn, and Recruiter can even grab it to begin with. SFM also works, but the things it can grab are limited.

It will also wreck havoc on your opponent's creatures when combined with Palace Jailer while getting two +1/+1 counter in the meantime.

Also plays well with Swords to Plowshares.

[Barook]

Also plays well with Swords to Plowshares.
Definitely, but that's a side dish at best. D&T has enough EtB effects to make it worth your while. It can also recycle Revoker, if necessary.

[morgan_coke]

So it looks like we're not getting Lightning Rift or a variant of it (all Red rares have been spoiled, Rift doesn't fit the name and number crunch).

I think this is a real mistake on WotC's part, because Rift is a deck that has real weaknesses, but is a natural predator for Superfriends and Humans/Tribal decks. And those decks kind of seem like they need a good metagame predator.

I dunno, not a huge deal, just feels like it's something that would have done a nice job filling a niche that is currently lacking. Maybe in the next one.

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

https://i.redd.it/fhmhc8tfqd131.png

This guy looks great with watcher for tomorrow, who triggers on exiting and entering. So flickering it is very profitable.

[ESG]

So it looks like we're not getting Lightning Rift or a variant of it (all Red rares have been spoiled, Rift doesn't fit the name and number crunch).

Could be an uncommon.

[Mr. Safety]

I thought Lightning Axe was used for the "free" discard effect.

Yes, that's one reason, but it's also to have removal that hits things Bolt doesn't. It was at most a 2-of for Phoenix decks, sometimes not even maindeck. Not sure where the deck is at right now. I think Bazaar Trademage will become one of the key threats in that deck, actually. It's a 3/4 flyer that feeds Phoenix and Pyromancer Ascension. With that in the deck I think Lightning Axe might get pushed to the side. I could be completely wrong about this, but I think it has merit. Three mana isn't too much for a deck that cantrips as much as Izzet Phoenix as well.

[Megadeus]

Yes, that's one reason, but it's also to have removal that hits things Bolt doesn't. It was at most a 2-of for Phoenix decks, sometimes not even maindeck. Not sure where the deck is at right now. I think Bazaar Trademage will become one of the key threats in that deck, actually. It's a 3/4 flyer that feeds Phoenix and Pyromancer Ascension. With that in the deck I think Lightning Axe might get pushed to the side. I could be completely wrong about this, but I think it has merit. Three mana isn't too much for a deck that cantrips as much as Izzet Phoenix as well.
I'm pretty stoked for that guy. But only because I want to discard vengevines to it and cast hollow ones for free

[Mr. Safety]

I'm pretty stoked for that guy. But only because I want to discard vengevines to it and cast hollow ones for free

Please wander over to the modern section! I would love to get your feedback on a RUG Hollow-Vine list I posted. Its under 'Naya Vengevine', but I didn't want to make a new thread. Maybe you meant Legacy, but I was pretty stoked to start brewing for Modern with Bazaar Trademage.

[BenBleiweiss]

Other cards of note from full spoiler drop:
https://media.wizards.com/2019/mh1/en_E2TtqLfuFK.png
https://media.wizards.com/2019/mh1/en_s0XngDjDsd.png
https://media.wizards.com/2019/mh1/en_Sq8oRAaEUj.png
https://media.wizards.com/2019/mh1/en_MnU7JxNGbT.png

[morgan_coke]

https://magic.wizards.com/en/products/modernhorizons/cards

Full spoiler is up.

Shattered Assumptions
1BB
Sorcery
Choose One
- target opponent reveals hand and discards all colorless cards
- target opponent reveals hand and discards all multicolored cards

Has value vs. Eldrazi and Tron mostly I think, maybe a bunch of Vintage applications? Could be wrong. Probably a sideboard card either way.

EDIT: dammit Ben!
lol

[mistercakes]

https://magic.wizards.com/en/products/modernhorizons/cards

Full spoiler is up.

Shattered Assumptions
1BB
Sorcery
Choose One
- target opponent reveals hand and discards all colorless cards
- target opponent reveals hand and discards all multicolored cards

Has value vs. Eldrazi and Tron mostly I think, maybe a bunch of Vintage applications? Could be wrong. Probably a sideboard card either way.

EDIT: dammit Ben!
lol

could be interesting with painters servant maybe? could inspire a painter's servant deck with some other effects too.

[Ronald Deuce]

Gluttonous Slug is the new Brushwagg.

[PirateKing]

Gluttonous Slug is the new Brushwagg.

This card upsets me because I never remember what Menace does, but sure give rules text to Evolve. Not like it's the mechanic that's over two years older or anything. Nah.

[rufus]

This card upsets me because I never remember what Menace does, but sure give rules text to Evolve. Not like it's the mechanic that's over two years older or anything. Nah.

Menace has been around a long time. It just didn't have a keyword.

Goblin War Drums

[Erdvermampfa]

After all cards have been shown here's my judgement: It's a cool and interesting set especially for the more experienced players but it's certainly not justified to charge an increased price given what's in here. The regular booster price would have been perfectly fine and more appropriated, this isn't a premium product by any means.

[sco0ter]

I think this is a real mistake on WotC's part, because Rift is a deck that has real weaknesses.

Come on, dont complain, "you" got a better Slide and cycling lands for Modern already.

[morgan_coke]

Come on, dont complain, "you" got a better Slide and cycling lands for Modern already.

https://6d4be195623157e28848-7697ece4918e0a73861de0eb37d08968.ssl.cf1.rackcdn.com/2939_200w.jpg

[Poron]

After all cards have been shown here's my judgement: It's a cool and interesting set especially for the more experienced players but it's certainly not justified to charge an increased price given what's in here. The regular booster price would have been perfectly fine and more appropriated, this isn't a premium product by any means.

Primastic Vista makes this expansion great to me. I am buying 4 the day it lands on MODO

[joven]

This card upsets me because I never remember what Menace does, but sure give rules text to Evolve. Not like it's the mechanic that's over two years older or anything. Nah.

Isn't Menace currently evergreen? That's the real reason why there is no rules text for it.

[sco0ter]

morgen_coke, I guess Ruthless Sniper is Modern's Rift. Maybe it can help you out.

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

Isn't Menace currently evergreen? That's the real reason why there is no rules text for it.

It's evergreen and it's, for some reason, associated with zombies.

[Ace/Homebrew]

https://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/273/904/636949152566249312.png

Anybody else see this as a portent of future storylines? Phyrexia tries to take over Ixalan after succeeding on Mirrodin? There's mythos overlap in the importance of suns on both planes...

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

https://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/avatars/273/904/636949152566249312.png

Anybody else see this as a portent of future storylines? Phyrexia tries to take over Ixalan after succeeding on Mirrodin? There's mythos overlap in the importance of suns on both planes...

To be fair, the sun is important in nearly every culture ever.

[Fox]

2020, year of the dinosaur robot. :eek:

[Dice_Box]

2020, year of the dinosaur robot. :eek:
Spoiler. Mechagodzilla had yet to be confirmed.

[Ronald Deuce]

This card upsets me because I never remember what Menace does, but sure give rules text to Evolve. Not like it's the mechanic that's over two years older or anything. Nah.

I was referring to the slug's face.

[PirateKing]

I was referring to the slug's face.

No I know, I'm just an old man and sometimes I have to yell at clouds.

[Ace/Homebrew]

To be fair, the sun is important in nearly every culture ever.
Not to Dwarves, or Mole Men, or... Crab people. :tongue:

[LOLWut]

For people picking cards up, these are SCG prices

Most expensive mythics, anything above $28:

Urza, Lord High Artificer- $55
The First Sliver- $45
Wrenn and Six- $40
Echo of Eons- $40
Unbound Flourishing- $35
Sword of Truth and Justice- $35
Sword of Sinew and Steel- $35
Yawgmoth, Thran Physician- $35

Most expensive rares, anything above $8:

Force of Negation- $35
Nurturing Peatland- $35
Fiery Islet- $35
Sunbaked Canyon- $30
Silent Clearing- $30
Waterlogged Grove- $30
Prismatic Vista- $30
Flusterstorm- $20
Hall of Heliod's Generosity- $15
Archmage's Charm- $13
Tectonic Reformation- $12

The two uncommons above $1:

Battle Screech- $2
Goblin Matron- $1.50

The only common to reach $1:

Spore Frog- $1

[Poron]

For people picking cards up, these are SCG prices

Most expensive mythics, anything above $28:

Urza, Lord High Artificer- $55
The First Sliver- $45
Wrenn and Six- $40
Echo of Eons- $40
Unbound Flourishing- $35
Sword of Truth and Justice- $35
Sword of Sinew and Steel- $35
Yawgmoth, Thran Physician- $35

Most expensive rares, anything above $8:

Force of Negation- $35
Nurturing Peatland- $35
Fiery Islet- $35
Sunbaked Canyon- $30
Silent Clearing- $30
Waterlogged Grove- $30
Prismatic Vista- $30
Flusterstorm- $20
Hall of Heliod's Generosity- $15
Archmage's Charm- $13
Tectonic Reformation- $12

The two uncommons above $1:

Battle Screech- $2
Goblin Matron- $1.50

The only common to reach $1:

Spore Frog- $1

time to get my 4 Flusterstorm!

[Pittplayer]

Thoughts on what cards are going to impact legacy?

[jmlima]

Thoughts on what cards are going to impact legacy?

I have a sneaky feeling Brainstorm might just cut it.

[Mr. Safety]

Thoughts on what cards are going to impact legacy?

Guaranteed (to at least be attempted):

Wrenn and Six (Lands)
Force of Negation (sideboard option)
Force of Vigor (Manaless Dredge, Turbo Depths)
Prismatic Vista
Fiery Islet (not sure if the others will see play or not)
Hogaak, The Manaless Dredge King
Cabal Therapist (Deadguy Ale)
Echo of Eons (not sure, but it will show up somewhere, new brews)
Hall of Heliod's Generosity (Lands, Enchantress, new brews)
Scale Up (might be good enough for Infect)
Kaya's Guile (pretty good utility card in BW)

Brew Material, might show up in some crazy decks:

Bazaar Trademage (creature-based Bazaar of Baghdad screams Vengevine brew)
Hexdrinker (Nic Fit potential)
Astral Drift (people will try...)
Giver of Runes (not sure which decks want more than 4 Moms)
Mirrodin Besieged (janky, but potential here)
Tribute Mage (it's a tutor, someone will try it)
Plague Engineer (Deadguy Ale sideboard potential)
Goblin Engineer (SFM + Welder >/= 3)
Planebound Accomplice (Someone will try...)
Crashing Footfalls (it seems good enough, not sure where it fits best)

[bruizar]

I agree with the above list. Echo will be banned pretty soon for its abuse with LED..

The more dubious cards:

I think the swords are being overlooked, both of them are playable (maindeck artifact hate and equipment hate and the other one is protection from uw miracles sans terminus.)

Faerie seer could see fringe play, but i dont know where yet. In non-tier decks like ninjas or faerie stompy

Dead of winter could see play as a replacement that does not cost life

Shenanigans for dredge and loam decks, and many sidebords

Unsettled mariner for uw dnt

Talisman of creativity for grixis tezzeret decks

[Mr. Safety]

I agree with the above list. Echo will be banned pretty soon for its abuse with LED..

The more dubious cards:

I think the swords are being overlooked, both of them are playable (maindeck artifact hate and equipment hate and the other one is protection from uw miracles sans terminus.)

Faerie seer could see fringe play, but i dont know where yet. In non-tier decks like ninjas or faerie stompy

Dead of winter could see play as a replacement that does not cost life

Shenanigans for dredge and loam decks, and many sidebords

Unsettled mariner for uw dnt

Talisman of creativity for grixis tezzeret decks

Good points. I also think the Swords are somewhat of an unknown quantity at this point...they could be good enough, but I think overall the legacy community isn't clamoring to try it. Faerie Seer is an incredible card for Pauper and could make the mono-blue Faeries deck work in Modern, but I don't think it will see play in legacy. Dead of Winter can't really be run in Pox, the only deck that could reasonably have enough Snow lands to make it work. Too many colorless land that are too important to that deck. Modern 8Rack with the new snow man-land? Pretty deece. Shenanigans is a modern sideboard card, but likely not a legacy one.

The one card I left out that you mentioned that I think will definitely see play is Unsettled Mariner. It's an incredibly powerful card that will definitely see play. Legacy Humans is a fringe deck, D&T splashing blue isn't too hard, and even spawning a new version of UW Tempo could conceivably happen. Even Stoneblade might try it out, I personally think it's good enough for that deck but I'm no Stoneblade expert.

[Cire]

Some cards to the above list:

Collector Ouphe may also make it into Green sideboards
Force of Vigor may also appear in sideboards
Ranger-Captain of Eos may also make it as a flex spot in some D&T lists or even Soldiers and/or Humans
Mirrodin besieged will be tried as a combo win condition somewhere
On Thin Ice is already being tried out in mostly mono-white decks as a possible replacement for Path to Exile (for those decks that want to run more than 4 swords)
Whether the Storm may be tried out as an SB card for green against storm and/Or even a combo enabler in terrible combo decks :tongue:
Lesser manticore looks like it could be a two drop in an artifact deck, especially if a welder deck develops through Goblin Engineer
Scrapyard Recombiner will be tested in MUD and probably will not make the cut

[Mr. Safety]

Some cards to the above list:

Collector Ouphe may also make it into Green sideboards
Scrapyard Recombiner will be tested in MUD and probably will not make the cut

Good catch, I do think Ouphe will make it into mostly Modern sideboards but being green for GSZ is definitely a talking point. Recombiner is definitely combo material, something the new hotness of Bomberman might want.

[rufus]

There are always odds and ends. I'm pretty sure there are better options in legacy, but Yawgmoth, Thran Physician has potential as a combo/draw engine with recursion abilities like undying. Ruination Rioter has a lot of reach potential in some kind of an aggro deck.

[mistercakes]

hard not to underestimate urza. if nothing else i suspect a lot of testing went into such an iconic card. it's possible it might only make the cut for commander, but i think we need to jam some games in limited with it to see just how oppressive it can be.

it's likely it will just be a crazy powerful value card, instead of a combo engine (which it looks like it can also be)

[Mr. Safety]

hard not to underestimate urza. if nothing else i suspect a lot of testing went into such an iconic card. it's possible it might only make the cut for commander, but i think we need to jam some games in limited with it to see just how oppressive it can be.

it's likely it will just be a crazy powerful value card, instead of a combo engine (which it looks like it can also be)

There will definitely be a Modern Urza deck. Whether we see one in Legacy remains to be seen, I think.

[rufus]

hard not to underestimate urza. if nothing else i suspect a lot of testing went into such an iconic card. it's possible it might only make the cut for commander, but i think we need to jam some games in limited with it to see just how oppressive it can be.

it's likely it will just be a crazy powerful value card, instead of a combo engine (which it looks like it can also be)

I want to combine Urza with Mass Polymorph, Synthetic Destiny, Indomitable Creativity or Warp World but I don't think that's a competitive thing.

The thing with Urza is that he sits in the "expensive to cast, and cheating in griseldad wins the game more easily" range.

[Pittplayer]

I want to combine Urza with Mass Polymorph, Synthetic Destiny, Indomitable Creativity or Warp World but I don't think that's a competitive thing.

The thing with Urza is that he sits in the "expensive to cast, and cheating in griseldad wins the game more easily" range.

Why wouldn't b/u Tezz decks want a one of to go infinite with thopter/sword?

[rufus]

Why wouldn't b/u Tezz decks want a one of to go infinite with thopter/sword?

How much does adding Urza improve the chance of winning compared to just making four more 1/1s for the same mana in that scenario?

How many scenarios are there where having - say - force of negation instead is just as good or better?

I could be totally wrong here. Maybe Urza is JTMS 2.0 or something. I just don't think he makes that much of a positive difference most of the time.

[mistercakes]

Isn't thopter sword infinite life with urza? That should win most matchups if you can combo that.

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

Isn't thopter sword infinite life with urza? That should win most matchups if you can combo that.

Time to spec on Leyline of the Meek.

[H]

Isn't thopter sword infinite life with urza? That should win most matchups if you can combo that.

Well, it is kind of win more, but just Thopter-Sword always has to pass turn. So, there is the chance you could lose after passing the turn. With Urza though it is infinite mana and tokens and you can play your whole library if you want. Most importantly, can can keep "Apaturing" until you hit a Force of Will and prevent yourself from losing or having the board wiped. Plus, an arbitrarily large amount of life is a good deal better than an amount equal to your available mana.

But I don't know that it makes the combo super-Tier 1, but it does make it minorly better.

[mistercakes]

So you tap sword + thopter to get UU, then sac the sword to make a thopter. Infinite mana, infinite aperture. Any number of ways to end the game here with infinite blue mana. Could even run something like a time walk effect.

[bruizar]

I was also intrigued by urza, but not for thopter sword, that should already win the game. I think urza should be playable as a standalone value card for it to see play, and i think arcum dagsson is a higher impact 4cc blue artifact matters creature that combos into a win

I know this will never happen in legacy but im personally very intrigued by the interaction of Squadron Hawk with Chrome Mox and Force of Virtue in an aggressive token build. :)


So you tap sword + thopter to get UU, then sac the sword to make a thopter. Infinite mana, infinite aperture. Any number of ways to end the game here with infinite blue mana. Could even run something like a time walk effect.

Nexus of fate into all the turns without decking yourself if you want to sacrifice a dead slot

[H]

So you tap sword + thopter to get UU, then sac the sword to make a thopter. Infinite mana, infinite aperture. Any number of ways to end the game here with infinite blue mana. Could even run something like a time walk effect.

Exactly. My thought would be a single Walk effect, because you really don't much want to draw it and can always Brainstorm that it back in case you draw it. And on the off chance it's in your 'yard, you can always just Aperture up some number of Force of Wills for when you pass the turn.

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

Could you run Mirrodin Beseiged? If you're casting your whole deck for free, and you have 15 artifacts, and your combo already includes an artifact sac outlet, you win on the end step. It also lets you loot for your combo in a pinch.

[bruizar]

Could you run Mirrodin Beseiged? If you're casting your whole deck for free, and you have 15 artifacts, and your combo already includes an artifact sac outlet, you win on the end step. It also lets you loot for your combo in a pinch.

Only if you still have cards in your library, because before the win trigge, you have to draw a card and you'll deck yourself if you just slam your deck with the infinite aperture. The same is true for jace wielder of mysteries, because the + ability mills you, and you only win the game if you draw, so you would lose. I'd go for nexus or, if you have other ways to combo easily, time sieve.

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

Only if you still have cards in your library, because before the win trigge, you have to draw a card and you'll deck yourself if you just slam your deck with the infinite aperture

I'm pretty sure it's all one ability. You'll preform the illegal action at the same time you'll have them lose the game. A tie!
But if that's the cast then just flip your deck minus one.

[mistercakes]

i think time will tell what will be the best way to use this, but it looks like a very strong card even outside of the sword combo. i think it's the best card in the set.

[bruizar]

i think time will tell what will be the best way to use this, but it looks like a very strong card even outside of the sword combo. i think it's the best card in the set.

Thats a big statement echoed by a lot of the commander and modern community. What i do think, is that value cards like winterorb will be much much better, as you can make it asymmetric.

[Cire]

I know this will never happen in legacy but im personally very intrigued by the interaction of Squadron Hawk with Chrome Mox and Force of Virtue in an aggressive token build. :)

I like this idea, but yeah you're right probably not good enough for legacy.

A sample deadguy list though:

4 Squadron Hawk
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Dark Confidant
2 Cabal Therapist

4 STP
4 Lingering Souls
4 Force of Virtue
4 Chrome Mox
3 Cabal Therapy
3 Thoughtseize
2 Bitterblossom
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Meta and Meta
1 Collective Brutality

18 Lands

Maybe throw in Leyline of the Meek?

[colo]

Leyline of the Meek seems worse than Intangible Virtue, don't you think?

[Barook]

Out of all cards, I didn't expect Hogaak, Arisen Necropolis to be the break-out one.

[Begle1]

Out of all cards, I didn't expect Hogaak, Arisen Necropolis to be the break-out one.

It feels like Dredge only gets one toy a year. And apparently Dredge is big in Modern.

[Smuggo]

It feels like Dredge only gets one toy a year. And apparently Dredge is big in Modern.

I did play Modern Dredge for a bit but it became significantly less powerful with GGT getting banned for the second time. Hogaak is decent but not amazing as dredge usually falls down from not being able to chain dredgers together and fill up the graveyard quickly and he doesn't help with that. Shenanigans might see some sideboard play though as it's useful for dealing with grafdigger's cage and has dredge but ancient grudge might still be better.

[mistercakes]

Who'd have thought the delve card would be a problem in eternal formats? :)

[Barook]

I did play Modern Dredge for a bit but it became significantly less powerful with GGT getting banned for the second time. Hogaak is decent but not amazing as dredge usually falls down from not being able to chain dredgers together and fill up the graveyard quickly and he doesn't help with that.
From what I've gathered on social media from various sources, the Hogaak deck pulls off consistent turn 3 kills and might arguably be the best Modern deck post-Horizons. We'll see how it's going to turn out once London Leylines are becoming legal, but just calling it decent is underselling it.

It also looks like Yawgmoth has found a home in Nic Fit. (https://twitter.com/Bahra01/status/1137858770535669761)

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

It feels like Dredge only gets one toy a year. And apparently Dredge is big in Modern.

Phyrexian altar too, for modern

[Scott]

Modern Horizons cards in the recent MTGO Legacy Challenge (https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/mtgo-standings/legacy-challenge-2019-06-10)'s top 16:

2nd place Maverick: Sideboard- 1 Collector Ouphe
4th place Nic Fit: 3 Yawgmoth, Thran Physician, 1 Cabal Therapist, 1 Nurturing Peatland
5th place 4-Color Control: 2 Force of Negation, 2 Wrenn and Six
8th place Lands: 1 Wrenn and Six. Sideboard- 2 Force of Vigor
12th place Miracles: 4 Prismatic Vista, 2 Force of Negation. Sideboard- 1 Nature's Chant
15th place Enchantress: 1 Hall of Heliod's Generosity. Sideboard- 1 Hall of Heliod's Generosity, 1 Plague Engineer

[Megadeus]

Not really sure why the Enchantress deck is playing man that is EPlague over actual EPlague

[kirkusjones]

Not really sure why the Enchantress deck is playing man that is EPlague over actual EPlague

Plague Engineer only hits opposing creatures, so naming "human" (I guess) won't kill your own enchantresses.

[Poron]

yeah but Doomwake Giant does it better

[aedemiel]

You can grab the engineer with Living Wish...

[alvoi]

You can grab the engineer with Living Wish...

Yeah, this. It's better to have 4 maindeck possibilities to grab EPlague instead of having only 1 and only after sideboard

[Megadeus]

That makes sense. I didn't see the list so didn't realize it was on wish

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

Why can't you wish for giant?

[Barook]

Why can't you wish for giant?
You can, but PE is cheaper, which might be relevant.

[BenBleiweiss]

FYI, the core set 2020 spoilers started today - started a new thread http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?33042-Core-Set-2020-Spoilers&p=1071380#post1071380

[LOLWut]

Prices now, two weeks later; interesting to see the changes. Using roughly the same number of cards for each rarity as two weeks ago.

Most expensive mythics:

Urza, Lord High Artificer- $45
Wrenn and Six- $28
The First Sliver- $28
Yawgmoth, Thran Physician- $20
Echo of Eons- $20
Sword of Truth and Justice- $18
Sword of Sinew and Steel- $18
Serra the Benevolent and Morophon, the Boundless- $15

Most expensive rares:

Force of Negation- $35
Fiery Islet- $25
Prismatic Vista- $25
Nurturing Peatland- $20
Flusterstorm- $20
Sunbaked Canyon- $18
Waterlogged Grave- $18
Hogaak, Arisen Necropolis- $18
Silent Clearing- $15
Giver of Runes, Archmage's Charm, and Hall of Heliod's Generosity- $7

The one uncommon above $1:

Scale Up- $1.50

The only common to reach $1:

Spore Frog- $1


For people picking cards up, these are SCG prices

Most expensive mythics, anything above $28:

Urza, Lord High Artificer- $55
The First Sliver- $45
Wrenn and Six- $40
Echo of Eons- $40
Unbound Flourishing- $35
Sword of Truth and Justice- $35
Sword of Sinew and Steel- $35
Yawgmoth, Thran Physician- $35

Most expensive rares, anything above $8:

Force of Negation- $35
Nurturing Peatland- $35
Fiery Islet- $35
Sunbaked Canyon- $30
Silent Clearing- $30
Waterlogged Grove- $30
Prismatic Vista- $30
Flusterstorm- $20
Hall of Heliod's Generosity- $15
Archmage's Charm- $13
Tectonic Reformation- $12

The two uncommons above $1:

Battle Screech- $2
Goblin Matron- $1.50

The only common to reach $1:

Spore Frog- $1

[Scott]

I know that limited conclusions can be drawn from MTGO league results, but this is a cool list (https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/mtgo-standings/legacy-league-2019-06-29). First sighting of the set's Urza, Lord High Artificer in Legacy, as a 4-of. And I love the flavor of having playsets of Urza, Lord High Artificer, Urza's Bauble, and Karn, Scion of Urza in the same deck.

// Planeswalker (8)
4 Karn, Scion of Urza
4 Karn, the Great Creator

// Creature (11)
2 Sai, Master Thopterist
4 Trinket Mage
4 Urza, Lord High Artificer
1 Walking Ballista

// Artifact (20)
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Engineered Explosives
1 Lion's Eye Diamond
2 Mox Diamond
4 Mox Opal
1 Pithing Needle
1 Tormod's Crypt
4 Urza's Bauble

// Land (21)
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cavern of Souls
4 City of Traitors
3 Island
2 Karakas
4 Seat of the Synod

// Sideboard
SB: 1 Engineered Explosives
SB: 1 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 4 Defense Grid
SB: 1 Ensnaring Bridge
SB: 4 Leyline of the Void
SB: 1 Liquimetal Coating
SB: 1 Mycosynth Lattice
SB: 1 Neurok Stealthsuit
SB: 1 Sorcerous Spyglass

[Smuggo]

Nice to see the Urza out in the Legacy environment. I've been playing him as my EDH general and upsetting all my friends.

[Kagehisa]

Mono White manabase skeleton
4 Horizon Canopy
4 Silent Clearing
4 Sunbaked Canyon

or

Mono Green manabase skeleton
4 Horizon Canopy
4 Nurturing Peatland
4 Waterlogged Grove

This could be the starting point of a Mono White deck cheating on lands and add Stoneforge and Batterskull to gain life. I could do the same for Mono Green and add Sylvan Library, etc but you get the idea.

This leads me to :

4 Horizon Canopy
4 Silent Clearing
4 Sunbaked Canyon

Irrigated Farmland
Scattered Groves
Gift of Estates
Tithe

Plains
Land Tax
Scroll Rack


Stoneforge Mystic
Batterskull
Jitte
Enlightened Tutor
etc

Gift of Estates is a slow slow Ancestral Recall with Irrigated Farmland and Scattered Groves so maybe Tithe is just better but not even good. There are lots of reasons why Gift of Estates and the cycling dual lands are bad. It is slow and we need to play bad cards but it can make cards like Abolish playable. There are things to explore.

The cantrip-painlands package can be combined with basics Plains and Land Tax engine, at least in Mono White.

There is an opportunity for White to make a manabase that can dodge lands flood in the early game (cycling dual lands) AND/OR in the late game (cantrip-pain lands) AND/OR gain card advantage with Land Tax engine.

(Yes, playing Brainstorm, Ponder and Preordain + fetchlands does the same.)

There is something to do maybe ? I'm not sure it goes somewhere but just want to share the ideas.

[aedemiel]

I don't know about mono G, but I think this idea just doesn't work in Parfait. Because it's already a slow deck, you can't really afford to play that many tap-land especially when you want to cast Land Tax T1.

About the”Sac:Draw” lands, I guess you could play some number Sunbaked Canyon in Rw but it would probably be a liability to play more than 4 considering your health would suffer too much. Also, the argument to play Batterskull doesn't make sense: Parfait doesn't play any creatures because it nullifies a good chunk of your opponent deck that way.

[bruizar]

I picked up some foil Force of Despairs. They were only €5 while Force of Negation is €120.

To me, Force of Despair is like Remove Soul, while also giving you the tools to hit Dredge and Phoenix. It's kind of bad against Reanimator and Sneak Attack, because once Griselbrand hits the battlefield, it's too late anyway, but still I don't think Force off Despair is 24 times worst than Force of Negation.

[LOLWut]

From the way MaRo is talking about it, I predict that Legacy (Dredge, Hogaak Depths, and Altar Combo/Zombardment) will become the only place to play Hogaak, Arisen Necropolis, besides Vintage. Apparently Modern can't handle it. High-profile players are also calling for it to be banned, along with Faithless Looting and Allosaurus Rider, which wouldn't surprise me from Modern.

https://i.imgur.com/3pPhp9P.png

[H]

Well, I think Faithless Looting is now, basically, Modern's Brainstorm. It's not going anywhere, at least it seems very, very unlikely to.

But Hogaak and Allosaurus Rider are likely on or near the chopping block.

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

Allosaurus rider? People are playing that?

[H]

Allosaurus rider? People are playing that?

With Neoform, yeah, I think so. But I honestly don't follow Modern. Looks like there are a few results with it. (https://www.mtggoldfish.com/archetype/modern-neobrand#online) Honestly, it's probably more dopey than good, which probably pisses people off more than usual.

[morgan_coke]

Banning Allosaurus Rider is stupid.

To fix modern, ban Faithless Looting, Ancient Stirrings, Griselbrand, and Emrakul.

Like, that's it. That stops 99% of the stupid and OP stuff in the format.

[Fox]

Banning Allosaurus Rider is stupid.

To fix modern, ban Faithless Looting, Ancient Stirrings, Griselbrand, and Emrakul.

Like, that's it. That stops 99% of the stupid and OP stuff in the format.

+ Mox Opal

[Ace/Homebrew]

Honestly, it's probably more dopey than good, which probably pisses people off more than usual.
It can go off before the opponent gets to play a land, but not consistently. It reminds me of Amulet Titan in that a team dedicated to breaking it could get a critical piece of it banned. Either that or WotC printing another green 7-drop with an alt-casting cost that makes it more consistent.

Thoughtseize on the play pretty much destroys the combo.

[Lava Snacks]

Which M̶o̶d̶e̶r̶n̶ ̶H̶o̶r̶i̶z̶o̶n̶s̶ card from a recent set will end up having the biggest long-term impact on Legacy, the obvious answer of Wrenn and Six, or Elvish Reclaimer?

Some of you need to start playing white or something, to put Depths in its place, and stop me from getting raped by Magus of the Rotation twice a tournament.

[PirateKing]

...I mean, based on the parameters of the question, Wrenn and Six?

I keep getting bounced between T2 RB Reanimator and T2 Hogaak; been lots of fun (not)

[UnsungHero]

Which Modern Horizons card will end up having the biggest long-term impact on Legacy, the obvious answer of Wrenn and Six, or Elvish Reclaimer?

Elvish Reclaimer came out in Core Set 2020, not Modern Horizons.

[Lava Snacks]

Elvish Reclaimer came out in Core Set 2020, not Modern Horizons.

O yeah, meant to say something like 'which card in just-released sets.'

[Megadeus]

Which Modern Horizons card will end up having the biggest long-term impact on Legacy, the obvious answer of Wrenn and Six, or Elvish Reclaimer?

Some of you need to start playing white or something, to put Depths in its place, and stop me from getting raped by Magus of the Rotation twice a tournament.

I brought 5 moon painter to the SCG and didn't play against any depths decks unfortunately. Just 4 color delver piles that always seemed to get the nuts draws

[sdematt]

I brought 5 moon painter to the SCG and didn't play against any depths decks unfortunately. Just 4 color delver piles that always seemed to get the nuts draws

Obvious answer is: should have played more Moons. Always 8 Moons.

-Matt

[Dice_Box]

Some of you need to start playing white or something, to put Depths in its place, and stop me from getting raped by Magus of the Rotation twice a tournament.
Been playing Depths online. My favourite card of late has been Daze. I play a spell, it gets Dazed and I say to myself "Mate, your losing this match." Then I tend to beat Delver to death with a 8/8 trampling monstrosity.

It's good fun.