Rorschach Test

[FTW]

Half Analyst, Half Therapist

This deck requires the top Jedi Mind Tricks of the Cabal to outwit your opponent.


//Creatures: 27
4 Cabal Therapist
4 Doomed Traveler
4 Mother of Runes
4 Dark Confidant
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Skirsdag High Priest
2 Vryn Wingmare

//Spells: 8
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Cabal Therapy
1 Lingering Souls

//Enchantments: 2
2 Bitterblossom

//Artifacts: 2
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull

//Lands: 21
3 Cavern of Souls
4 Wasteland
4 Scrubland
4 Marsh Flats
1 Flooded Strand
1 Polluted Delta
1 Karakas
1 Plains
2 Swamp



Post-board you can attack their gameplan with Surgical precision

Synergies:
-Cabal Therapy + token fodder
-Stoneblade + flying
-Dark Confidant + low curve
-Skirsdag High Priest + many bodies + sac outlets
-Wasteland + taxing

Suggestions?

[JackaBo]

Maybe change the name?

[LarsLeif]

Maybe change the name?

+1000

Also, why are we building a modern deck in legacy? :p Seems to me a lot of good cards in both colors are missing.

[kirkusjones]

Maybe change the name?

https://i.gifer.com/HTdc.gif

FTW, I for one appreciate your efforts in attempting a nu start in legacy deck building.

[FTW]

FTW, I for one appreciate your efforts in attempting a nu start in legacy deck building.

I'm glad someone got the reference! I spent a month in the Method One acting clinic coming up with that one.

[kirkusjones]

I'm glad someone got the reference! I spent a month in the Method One acting clinic coming up with that one.

http://mtgcommander.net/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=19066

[FTW]

Also, why are we building a modern deck in legacy? :p Seems to me a lot of good cards in both colors are missing.

Modern??

Karakas
Mother of Runes
Swords to Plowshares
Stoneforge Mystic
Cabal Therapy
Wasteland
Scrubland...

I assume you just stopped at Doomed Traveler? I don't love that card, but what other BW 1-drop would you use as sacrifice fodder? Veteran Explorer doesn't fit here. Champion of the Parish isn't fodder. Are there certain Deadguy Ale creatures or hatebears you think belong more?

SB would probably include: 1 Sword (probably Light and Shadow), 1-2 Palace Jailer, grave hate, Sanctum Prelate, disenchant effect, other hatebears, maybe more discard

Vryn Wingmare is slow but plays into the taxing/mana denial plan, trades with Delver, and also flies with Jitte/Swords (SB). Maybe Sanctum Prelate is just better MD (Human too!), though it doesn't fly.

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

I'm glad someone got the reference! I spent a month in the Method One acting clinic coming up with that one.

Capitalizing the R makes it less a reference and more you being an ass.
Also the the only connection your deck has to the name is the card cabal therapy. So change the name.

[PirateKing]

Yeah unfortunately you'd need to run like Deep Analysis for the name to work.
Maybe retool it, then you can come back with A New Start and we can review

[TLK]

Capitalizing the R makes it less a reference and more you being an ass.
Also the the only connection your deck has to the name is the card cabal therapy. So change the name.

Not really?

Also, there's the new card Cabal Therapist.

Quit being so easily offended.

[pettdan]

Not really?

Also, there's the new card Cabal Therapist.

Quit being so easily offended.

You don't have to be offended to realize that this is an unaparelled exhibition in poor taste and/or judgement in this forum (not considering BerndKastell's rage posts) and that it easily could offend many people. Otherwise it's an interesting deck, I just assumed the title would be changed within minutes when I first saw it..

Edit: maybe the critizism was a bit harsh, sorry about that and the reference to Arrested Development was nice, but still think it was merited.

[TLK]

You don't have to be offended to realize that this is an unaparelled exhibition in poor taste and/or judgement in this forum (not considering BerndKastell's rage posts) and that it easily could offend many people. Otherwise it's an interesting deck, I just assumed the title would be changed within minutes when I first saw it..

Fair enough. For the record I do not condone using the term in his thread title in a flippant manner, but OP states it's a reference, however inappropriate it might be.

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

Not really?

Also, there's the new card Cabal Therapist.

Quit being so easily offended.

Yes really, the whole premise of the original joke is that he made a portmanteau, which don't have their middles capitalized, because they're one singular word. And the key element of the joke was that Tobias didn't get it. By capitalizing the R you're letting us know you do know why you shouldn't combine those words like that.

I hadn't seen the new card and thought it was therapy. Oops, but then a better port of the joke would be "Cabalrapist", because it doesn't take a genius to note that when you highlight that they're too separate words you lose the effect of not understanding that people would pronounce it different.

Tell better jokes, and my take away will be "that was funny" and not "that was stupid". I even fixed it for everyone in the previous point. If you want to make a decade-old reference, you're going to have to put in the effort.

[Zilla]

I get the joke, but a lot of people won't, and some will (reasonably) be offended. It would be nice if the discussion could be focused on developing the deck and not the merits of the name. Change it please. Thanks.

[Dice_Box]

PM me when you know what you want to call it.

[FTW]

Yes really, the whole premise of the original joke is that he made a portmanteau, which don't have their middles capitalized, because they're one singular word. And the key element of the joke was that Tobias didn't get it. By capitalizing the R you're letting us know you do know why you shouldn't combine those words like that.

I hadn't seen the new card and thought it was therapy. Oops, but then a better port of the joke would be "Cabalrapist", because it doesn't take a genius to note that when you highlight that they're too separate words you lose the effect of not understanding that people would pronounce it different.

Tell better jokes, and my take away will be "that was funny" and not "that was stupid". I even fixed it for everyone in the previous point. If you want to make a decade-old reference, you're going to have to put in the effort.

I get your point.

Still.. at what point does the amount of snark coming from comments like this become more offensive than the original issue? Could you have not communicated that more politely?

FYI - I PM'd the mod with 2 alternate suggestions for the title

Does anyone have comments about the decklist, or about my reply to the only comment about the decklist?

[tescrin]

Does anyone have comments about the decklist, or about my reply to the only comment about the decklist?

Quick notes would be:
- Doomed traveller is bad. I say this as someone who has actually registered copies of Doomed Traveler in lists before. I may have no shame, but I also have no Doomed Travellers in my lists anymore haha

- you have no topend (such as maybe Elspeth, more copies of Lingering souls, Lily, or similar) -> I get that it's because of Thalia; but I'd figure out something to do to mesh that better. You *do* have blossoms which I'm a big fan of, but I'd push the number to 3 myself. You never really want two on the field, but they're a prized target for Force and similar.

- This probably sounds funny, but you lack interaction. DGA typically runs a 3/3/3 split of Thoughtseize, Sculler, preferred discard #3, AND runs Lily on top of it. That is how much it takes to interact with combo reliably enough

EDIT didn't mean for that line to make it passed editing!

IMO:
* post in the DGA thread
* Therapist should be 3-of max, probably a 2-of. He's bad in multiples as he doesn't do anything special
* Add a blossom
* Trim a Mom
* 4th SFM + SoFaI IMO
* I don't think SHPriest will work out for you unless you're already winning

Lastly, the list is (IMO) overly weak to Lily-Hope and sweepers. I'd find a way to get more x/2s in there. Therapist probably doesn't work well with Mom (and they, in some sense, perform the same role.)

[FTW]

Quick notes would be:
- Doomed traveller is bad. I say this as someone who has actually registered copies of Doomed Traveler in lists before. I may have no shame, but I also have no Doomed Travellers in my lists anymore haha


I got the idea of Doomed Traveler from this BW Humans Aristocrats list from Sam Black years ago:
http://www.starcitygames.com/events/coverage/deck_tech_bw_humans_with_sam_b.html

I couldn't think of any other suitable 1cc fodder, and slower fodder is even worse with Therapy.dec. What else would you play to fuel it? Just more Blossoms?

I'd rather have some 1cc options too. If you play T1 Therapist T2 Blossom you have no interaction with the opponent until turn 3! Or if you play something interactive, you can't use Therapist until turn 4 (seems bad). With 1cc fodder you have room to cast a 1cc interactive spell in your first 2 turns and still set up turn 3 Therapist trigger. 1cc fodder also synergizes well with turn 2 flashback Therapy (with Bitterblossom you can't flashback until turn 3). What else is remotely playable at 1 mana? Legion's Landing? Thraben Inspector? I'd gladly replace Doomed Traveler if there was anything else to fill that role.



you have no topend (such as maybe Elspeth, more copies of Lingering souls, Lily, or similar) -> I get that it's because of Thalia

Skirsdag High Priest makes Tombstalkers. You can protect it with Mom + discard + mana denial, enable it with tokens and 1 drops, and trigger morbid with Cabal Therapy.dec.

Like other Stoneblade weenie decks, the other top end is flyer + equipment. I originally had Sword of Light and Shadow main. It's probably needed main to have enough attack power.



This probably sounds funny, but you lack interaction. DGA typically runs a 3/3/3 split of Thoughtseize, Sculler, preferred discard #3, AND runs Lily on top of it. That is how much it takes to interact with combo reliably enough

Yeah, maybe I should go up to 3 Thoughtseize + 3 Therapy main and cut Cabal Therapist to 3 copies. I don't want fewer than 3 since the whole point was to try to make Cabal Therapy.dec viable.



Therapist should be 3-of max, probably a 2-of. He's bad in multiples as he doesn't do anything special

He has Menace to wield equipment. Worst case he pitches himself to Therapy so he's never dead in multiples. Best case both trigger and you can double Therapy in a turn, then tapping them to Skirsdag High Priest to make a 5/5 or attacking with Menace+Jitte/Sword.

I usually go with SoFaI, but I like Sword of Light and Shadow here for lifegain (offset the lifeloss) and to recycle creatures (creature-heavy deck with sac outlets).

[bruizar]

pitiless pontiff gives you some ways to bring down bigger creatures.

Hidden stockpile feeds cabal therapist too, also combos with pontiff

The new Serra walker actually looks decent here as the worship is easy to sustain & the +2 is strong here.

[FTW]

pitiless pontiff gives you some ways to bring down bigger creatures.

Hidden stockpile feeds cabal therapist too

The new Serra walk actually looks decent here as the worship is easy to sustain & the +2 is strong here.

All 3 suggestions look great. Thanks! Tinkering with slots now...

[Cloudforge]

Hallowed Spiritkeeper is a good sac fodder that also provides more sac fodder. Also a wincon once your graveyard fills up.

[FTW]

Updated decklist


//Creatures: 25
4 Mother of Runes
4 Thraben Inspector
3 Cabal Therapist
4 Dark Confidant
4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Skirsdag High Priest

//Spells: 10
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Thoughtseize
3 Cabal Therapy

//Enchantments: 3
2 Bitterblossom
1 Hidden Stockpile

//Artifacts: 3
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Batterskull

//Lands: 20
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Wasteland
4 Scrubland
4 Marsh Flats
1 Karakas
1 Plains
2 Swamp

//Sideboard: 15
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Pitiless Pontiff
2 Mirran Crusader
2 Containment Priest
2 Sanctum Prelate
2 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Palace Jailer
1 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben


I need to test Thraben Inspector. Hoping it's a better value 1-drop than Doomed Traveler.

Cut the slower 3 drops and 1 land for game 1, in favor of more early game interaction.

Added maindeck Thoughtseize. It should improve matchups and also lead to smarter Therapies.

Added maindeck Sword to have better finishing power.

Out of the SB, Mirran Crusader also gives major ground beatdown. Pitiless Pontiff trades with fatties. I don't like either maindeck because they're only relevant turn 3, which can be too slow for some matches, but they can come in for the grindier matches.

Added Hidden Stockpile as a joint token engine / instant sac outlet / way to dig into gas. I prefer this over the 3rd Bitterblossom, as Bitterblossom is bad in multiples.

Added typical white hatebears to SB.

Other considerations:
Brightling (finisher but nonevasive and manahungry), Recruiter of the Guard (tutor but weak body and seems slow without Vial), Serra Angel-Planeswalker Edition.

[tescrin]

Inspecter does seem better. Survives Hope activations, gives you your 1-drops-duders, gives you a (nearly deterministic no less) card to boot. I'd call that an upgrade. I'd still consider dropping him to 3 copies and Mom to 3 copies. Basically, if seeing 3-of-a-kind loses you the game I usually feel that way. If 2-of-a-kind is really bad, I tend to go to 1-2 copies; depending on cost; etc. (That gives you some context for my opinions if that helps you divide cruft from reasonable points.)

The other major thing to point out is you currently have 21 1-drops. That's delver-levels of 1-drops; this is another good reason to shave some cards here and there for top-end; if nothing else but to survive chalice decks. You may (and I know people give it shit but) you may consider some Collective Brutalities here. IMO, they have great synergy with Therapy (pitch therapy to Brutality), provide good tempo against Burn/Elves/storm/Delver, and are always relevant (at the cost of being mana efficient at times.)

Maybe chop a TS and/or a Therapy for Brutalities. Then I'd consider moving an inspector and maybe a Mom to a good three drop. Mirran Crusader is always a reasonable bet for just being an absolute house against a whole variety of opponents. For every time he's bolted I bet he also swings through a Strix/Angler for the game. He also beats BSK in a fight without giving up any life. This would help fill the "beater" role*

I still think third blossom is better than Stockpile, but Stockpile + blossom is definitely better than 2 blossoms on the field; so it's a reasonable compromise. Do note that one of the nicest things about Blossom is the flying; making Blossom pretty much counter Turbo-depths by itself (and sometimes reanimator.) I think you'll come around once you run stockpile though.

*Some people don't care about having beaters if they have lots of dudes; but I'd point out that all the little-dude decks have beaters. It's nice to be able to go wide against walkers, Lage, etc, but it's also definitely nice to be able to just say "this kills you in two turns. Do you have it?"

I know you got Priests; I just have a feeling though. If it works out I'd love to drop 5/5 tokens on people. He's probably a bit expensive, but I do enjoy me some Order of Whiteclay in a casual WB deck with Skirsdag. Rotlung Reanimator or his human-counterpart could turn out reasonable as well.

EDIT: you definitely run 1-2 Zealous Persecution and 1-2 Orzhov Pontiff. Pontiff can be a little slow, so a 1/1 split may be useful. VERY helpful for Elves, D&T, TNN decks, and Pyro

[FTW]

Good points.

I should be able to do
-1 Thraben Inspector
-1 1 drop (Mom or StP)
+2 Mirran Crusader (maindeck)

Then replace the 2 Crusaders in the board with 1 Zealous Persecution and 1 Orzhov Pontiff. Pontiff has great synergy with the sacrifice engines and is a Human to boot.

I'm reluctant to drop the 4th Mother. Mother of Ruins protection is what makes the creature-based card advantage engines (Bob, Skirsdag, Cabal Therapist, Stoneblade) viable. Therapist and Skirsdag get a lot worse when they can just "die to removal". With turn 1 Mother or turn 1 discard, it's a lot more plausible to dodge removal and get some value.

What other beater would you suggest? Tombstalker and Gurmag Angler are bad with Dark Confidant. Brightling is good in D&T, but they have Vials to free up mana for abilities, while this deck is more constrained on mana.

[tescrin]

I'm reluctant to drop the 4th Mother. Mother of Ruins protection is what makes the creature-based card advantage engines (Bob, Skirsdag, Cabal Therapist, Stoneblade) viable. Therapist and Skirsdag get a lot worse when they can just "die to removal". With turn 1 Mother or turn 1 discard, it's a lot more plausible to dodge removal and get some value.

What other beater would you suggest?

Note that you did already have one beater, BSK. So Mirrans may be enough already.

Jank talks
_________
Other options include Shriekmaw and Hero of Bladehold if Wilson (in the DGA thread) is to be believed (and I'd believe him?) Hero's interesting trait is, on an empty board, she's a 2-turn clock (dealing 18.) Personally, i never had the balls for running Hero. I feel like if I wanted to do that I'd run a Lightning Greaves.

Side note while I'm mentioning jank; Lightning Greaves can somewhat count as Mom 4 or something. They're pretty neat with SFM late game (cast sfm, attach greaves, drop BSK, attach greaves, swing with BSK) but aside from that they can force something like Miracles to constantly need to 'have it' and can sit on bob while you need cards or some such. Never had the balls to try 'em either honestly but I can just drool at the idea of dropping Hero next to a greaves and instantly swinging for 7.

[compacta_d]

I think this should be an Aether vial deck.

Also how about the new half Thalia half doomed traveler guy?

[Fox]

The first thing that came to mind was worse Grixis "Control" without cantrips; it's a Rorschach after all. :tongue:

I think you just play this Cabal Therapist in a Zombardment shell and call it a day though.