Theros: Beyond Death spoilers

[morgan_coke]

We also got the story - seems we're heading to New Phyrexia Again! (https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/feature/theros-beyond-death-story-summary-2020-01-10)(with Ashiok).

Probably Ixalan and Phyrexia, remember that bubbling ooze on the Ixalan card art and flavor text?

[bruizar]

Probably Ixalan and Phyrexia, remember that bubbling ooze on the Ixalan card art and flavor text?

Phylaksia (Phyrexia in greek writing) is referenced on some cards
Elspeth's Shadowspear is covered in phyrexian oil
There's a phyrexian obliterator with elspeth on one of the artwork

[Mr. Safety]

So, what do we have for legacy playables in here? I haven't seen anything earth-shattering.

Thassa's Oracle
Underworld Breach
Nyxbloom Ancient
Kroxa, Titan of Death's Hunger
Uro, Titan of Nature's Wrath
Soul-guide Lantern
Shadowspear
Kunoros, Hound of Athreos

Those are the only ones I could conceivably see being played, but are narrow. Did we get a reprieve from sets shaking up Legacy?

[ronco]

So, what do we have for legacy playables in here? I haven't seen anything earth-shattering.

Thassa's Oracle
Underworld Breach
Nyxbloom Ancient
Kroxa, Titan of Death's Hunger
Uro, Titan of Nature's Wrath
Soul-guide Lantern
Shadowspear
Kunoros, Hound of Athreos

Those are the only ones I could conceivably see being played, but are narrow. Did we get a reprieve from sets shaking up Legacy?

Does cling to dust fit for "narrow" applications? Only considering it because of the potential cantrip for non-creature targets (and obviously the benefit of escape although this one is pretty steep). I don't think it will be a Veil of Summer impact at all, but i'm not willing to write it off just yet.

[Cire]

So, what do we have for legacy playables in here?
Pretty much - my own list was:

Playable

Underworld Breach (Brainfreeze LED combo is much better than you think and even if it doesn't become its own deck this is frightfully good)
Thassa's Oracle (a better lab maniac)
Fate Weaver (enchantment creature that makes your creatures and enchantments uncountarable seems good in enchantment)

Fringe

Deathbellow War Cry (a one mana cheaper "dragonstorm" - just needs 5-6 "dead cards" in library)
Kloyths (a more expensive DRS with timing restrictions but is harder to remove and may provide end game beats)
Kunoros (hate card for deadguy ale)
Heliod (Combo with ballista in some eskimo builds)
Tectonic Giant (red eldrazi or Dragon Stompy might want it)
Siona (combos with Shielded by Faith which this card looks for anyway, is GSZable)
Shadowspear (seems like a decent SB SFM target)
Soul-guide Lantern (more graveyard hate)
Kroxa, Titan of Death's Hunger
Uro, Titan of Nature's Wrath

[Mr. Safety]

Pretty much - my own list was:

Playable

Underworld Breach (Brainfreeze LED combo is much better than you think and even if it doesn't become its own deck this is frightfully good)
Thassa's Oracle (a better lab maniac)
Fate Weaver (enchantment creature that makes your creatures and enchantments uncountarable seems good in enchantment)

Fringe

Deathbellow War Cry (a one mana cheaper "dragonstorm" - just needs 5-6 "dead cards" in library)
Kloyths (a more expensive DRS with timing restrictions but is harder to remove and may provide end game beats)
Kunoros (hate card for deadguy ale)
Heliod (Combo with ballista in some eskimo builds)
Tectonic Giant (red eldrazi or Dragon Stompy might want it)
Siona (combos with Shielded by Faith which this card looks for anyway, is GSZable)
Shadowspear (seems like a decent SB SFM target)
Soul-guide Lantern (more graveyard hate)
Kroxa, Titan of Death's Hunger
Uro, Titan of Nature's Wrath

I forgot about War Cry, it could create a Minotaur Combo deck. Tectonic Giant has the unfortunate clause of only dealing damage to opponents and not creatures. I think there are much better options at 4 mana (Chandra ToD would get 4-shots before the first one of these was played.) Heliod might see some play, but it needs so much mana to pull off with Ballista, in a color that doesn't have good disruption. Shadowspear does a lot for such a minimal investment but still doesn't quite get there IMHO. Lifelink is obsolete given Jitte and BSkull doing that job better and trample would be good on something like Gurmag Angler. Being at 1 mana is the one thing making it potentially playable.

I may eat these words, but I think TBD will have minimal impact on Legacy.

[bruizar]

Besides the cards you guys already mentioned, I see some fringe cards that deserve a mention:

--- good ---
Klothys, God of Destiny I believe this is underestimated. It's a 4 point life swing every turn, DRS only gained 2 or dealt 2, but never did both without an activation cost. It's also impossible to get rid of except for Council's Judgment. It's like Sulfuric Vortex that made babies with a Deathrite Shaman, and is indestructible. I'm not even looking at it as a creature.
Anax, Hardened in the Forge for dragon stompy. It triggers on itself, leaving 2 bodies behind, and triggers on Kroxa too. In Pioneer this will def. be a devotion card with Goblin Chainwhirler and Torbran, Thane of Red Fall and Bonecrusher Giant, but I think this is good enough for dragon stompy too (depends on the build ofcourse, dragon stompy is struggling because arcum's astrolabe killed blood moon and brazen borrower killed chalice of the void, so it needs an overhaul).
--- medium ---
Whirlwind Denial counters both the cast trigger and the creature (Like Ulamog or Hydroid Krasis in standard), as well as storm copies. Perhaps a 1-off in sideboards in the right meta.
Elspeth, Sun's Nemesis 1-off in angel stompy. The inevitability is crazy on this one. 4CC cast ->-2, -2, 6CC -1 replay -2. Curves perfectly and lets you swarm the board even through a Terminus. Heck, maybe even as a resilient finisher in Miracles.
--- fringe ---
Elspeth's Nightmare Probably not, but I love it, it's just such good value in one card
Elspeth Conquers Death This card looks like The Eldest Reborn. 5CC Oblivion Ring, Silence, Reanimate creature or PW. Decent as a sideboard slot against show and tell. Not a legacy card but wanted to point out The Eldest Reborn saw play and this one got zero mentions.


Foil Showcase basic land. They are beautiful

The cards I actually preordered:
Soul-guide Lantern
Kroxa, Titan of Death's Hunger
Klothys, God of Destiny
Kunoros, Hound of Athreos
Elspeth's Nightmare

Still need to buy Underworld Breach and Elspeth's, Sun's Nemesis

[Tylert]

nobody mentionned the hasty guy that combo's with intuition putting 2 eldrazi conscription in the yard. normal?

[Mr. Safety]

nobody mentionned the hasty guy that combo's with intuition putting 2 eldrazi conscription in the yard. normal?

While it's a powerful interaction, the auras get exiled at your end step. So you do it *once* and hope it's enough. It can one-shot people for sure, which is pretty cool, and providing trample is nice for getting past TNN. Are you playing Slippery Bogle with it to avoid removal? Sounds fun, I think it might be alright.

For reference:Storm Herald

[bruizar]

This secretly looks like a better Darkblast, because it doesn't eat your draw step (instead it eats 2 extra mana and 2 cards).

https://media.mtgsalvation.com/avatars/thumbnails/275/418/200/283/637142709360905030.png

[Mr. Safety]

This secretly looks like a better Darkblast, because it doesn't eat your draw step (instead it eats 2 extra mana and 2 cards).

https://media.mtgsalvation.com/avatars/thumbnails/275/418/200/283/637142709360905030.png

I've heard the same from others, but I really don't think it's better than Darkblast. Mana efficiency aside, giving up a draw step in order to draw *the exact card you need* is perfectly reasonable. Couple that with the fact that it is always at sorcery speed and you have a bust, IMHO. It has offensive implications and can boost your Tarmogoyfs by +1/+1 by being in the graveyard, but I don't think it's anywhere near as good as Darkblast. With peripheral graveyard usage in a bunch of decks, dredge 2 can actually help. The one deck I can think of that was using it for a while was UB Shadow, which likes the extra 2 cards to feed Gurmags.

A better comparison would be Liliana, the Last Hope for that kind of mana investment. We all know which card is better in that situation.

[Barook]

Pretty much - my own list was:

Playable

Underworld Breach (Brainfreeze LED combo is much better than you think and even if it doesn't become its own deck this is frightfully good)
Thassa's Oracle (a better lab maniac)
Fate Weaver (enchantment creature that makes your creatures and enchantments uncountarable seems good in enchantment)

Fringe

Deathbellow War Cry (a one mana cheaper "dragonstorm" - just needs 5-6 "dead cards" in library)
Kloyths (a more expensive DRS with timing restrictions but is harder to remove and may provide end game beats)
Kunoros (hate card for deadguy ale)
Heliod (Combo with ballista in some eskimo builds)
Tectonic Giant (red eldrazi or Dragon Stompy might want it)
Siona (combos with Shielded by Faith which this card looks for anyway, is GSZable)
Shadowspear (seems like a decent SB SFM target)
Soul-guide Lantern (more graveyard hate)
Kroxa, Titan of Death's Hunger
Uro, Titan of Nature's Wrath
While I don't fully agree that certain cards are only fringe playable (e.g. Heliod/Ballista combo looking good), those are most of the cards that come into mind for me as well.

Uro might be able to do silly things in Nic Fit, especially if you run Greater Good it it. Gain 3 life, draw 6+1 cards + Explore sounds like a brutal engine, especially as the discard fuels towards the next Escape. Main disadvantage is that you would run Greater Good, but with GSZ It's easy pick up Uro for one half of the combo. If you can't win with that kind of engine, you never stood a chance anyway in that game.

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

Darkblast is an instant, cheaper, hits power, and can double it's effect.
This is an enchantment without flash, 2 more mana on the re-cast, ADDS power, and there's no tricks to using it.

[kombatkiwi]

Darkblast is an instant, cheaper, hits power, and can double it's effect.
This is an enchantment without flash, 2 more mana on the re-cast, ADDS power, and there's no tricks to using it.

I think this card is very good but the problem is that it doesn't really have a home

You need to skip your draw step to put Darkblast in your hand, so it's not card advantage if you're killing something with it. This is a very significant upside to the aura version.
The main upside of Darkblast is that (1) repeated uses don't cost more than 1 mana per use (2) fills your grave instead of eating it (3) flash

I can definitely see a format/deck where these downsides don't matter much compared to the card advantage but the main problem is that this effect is just eclipsed by Plague Engineer for most applications (or Lili Last Hope). Darkblast doesn't really see any play at the moment either

[Fox]

Darkblast is far better with Entomb, and milling over cards like Grisel is a bonus.

[kombatkiwi]

Darkblast is far better with Entomb, and milling over cards like Grisel is a bonus.

Yeah but you're never going to play Darkblast in reanimator either so that's a moot point anyway

[Fox]

Yeah but you're never going to play Darkblast in reanimator either so that's a moot point anyway
Not in B/R, but it‘s a fine card in UBx given the combo with Brainstorm-lock clearing and flipping JVP. Thing is, no one is playing Darkblast; not even the Entomb decks (which is the natural home). Those Entomb decks aren‘t going to move to Mogis‘s Favor b/c it‘s a worse Entomb card...also it‘s sorcery speed, and you can‘t get it into hand on demand with Grisel to knock out Ice-Fang. Darkblast can also kill an x/2.

[bruizar]

Not in B/R, but it‘s a fine card in UBx given the combo with Brainstorm-lock clearing and flipping JVP. Thing is, no one is playing Darkblast; not even the Entomb decks (which is the natural home). Those Entomb decks aren‘t going to move to Mogis‘s Favor b/c it‘s a worse Entomb card...also it‘s sorcery speed, and you can‘t get it into hand on demand with Grisel to knock out Ice-Fang. Darkblast can also kill an x/2.

I think it is a worthy removal spell voor Enchantress. They play black for Doomwake Giant, so a recurring removal spell that draws cards with argothian enchantress in a deck that makes plenty of mana through sanctum and utopia sprawls seems pretty good. You can take out Delver, Pyromancer or blank a Dreadhorde Arcanist.. It's better than Engineered Plague because you want to be replaying it in this deck trigger more draws, and it is useful against x/1's beyond a single tribe.

[kombatkiwi]

I think it is a worthy removal spell voor Enchantress. They play black for Doomwake Giant, so a recurring removal spell that draws cards with argothian enchantress in a deck that makes plenty of mana through sanctum and utopia sprawls seems pretty good. You can take out Delver, Pyromancer or blank a Dreadhorde Arcanist.. It's better than Engineered Plague because you want to be replaying it in this deck trigger more draws, and it is useful against x/1's beyond a single tribe.

That's a cool idea, quite hard to generate escape food though in your deck that's all permanents

[PirateKing]

I think it is a worthy removal spell voor Enchantress. They play black for Doomwake Giant, so a recurring removal spell that draws cards with argothian enchantress in a deck that makes plenty of mana through sanctum and utopia sprawls seems pretty good. You can take out Delver, Pyromancer or blank a Dreadhorde Arcanist.. It's better than Engineered Plague because you want to be replaying it in this deck trigger more draws, and it is useful against x/1's beyond a single tribe.

Yes please "blank" my Dreadhorde Arcanist :tongue:

[bruizar]

This one's also a very notable card since it's a color pie violation
https://media.mtgsalvation.com/avatars/thumbnails/275/420/200/283/637142710583724860.png

[H]

This one's also a very notable card since it's a color pie violation

MaRo wrote a bunch about this when Mire In Misery came out, it's a new space for Black. Red is the "can't deal with Enchantments" color and Black is the "can't deal with Artifacts" color now.

Found the article: http://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/186869030893/just-saw-mire-in-misery-this-is-the-black

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

This one's also a very notable card since it's a color pie violation
https://media.mtgsalvation.com/avatars/thumbnails/275/420/200/283/637142710583724860.png

It's one Mana too much, unfortunate

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

Probably Ixalan and Phyrexia, remember that bubbling ooze on the Ixalan card art and flavor text?

Elspeth and Ashiok go to new phyrexia. Ashiok is already converted killed in a moment of weakness when finding something even they are scared of.
Elspeth fights against phyrexians like she promised alongside Karn, with Calix perusing the whole time.
In the climax of the final fight, Calix understands free will and pulls an interplaner Javert into the furnace layer.
Well that's the fan fiction, anyways.
Reality is probably some big buildup "Secret Invasion" planechase either multiplayer summer or mainset.
OH! A MTG deckbuilder game...

[Scott]

I just played against Dredge with the ox and it seems *nutty*. This is what I saw on turn 1.

https://i.imgur.com/OWZ9D1y.png

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

So powerful it literally broke the table.

[bruizar]

was he dread returned or escaped? I see the escape counter on it but I don't understand how you generated the red mana. Land Faithless Looting LED or something?

[Scott]

was he dread returned or escaped? I see the escape counter on it but I don't understand how you generated the red mana. Land Faithless Looting LED or something?

Mull to 6
Double LED, City of Brass
Cast Breakthrough for 0 and crack LED
Discard 2 Lootings, 2 Oxen, Imp, land
Dredge into Narc and other stuff
Cast Ox with LED mana
With Ox trigger, dredge into a bunch more shit
Cast another Ox after cracking the other LED
Go nutty with more Ox draws, Narcs, Bridges, and Therapies
The one Dread Return I saw in the GY wasn't cast
Keep casting Hogaak with Zombies until your first turn has 2 Oxen, 3 Narcs, Gaak, 9 Zombies, 6 dredges from Oxen alone, and 3 cards in your deck

[morgan_coke]

Mull to 6
Double LED, City of Brass
Cast Breakthrough for 0 and crack LED
Discard 2 Lootings, 2 Oxen, Imp, land
Dredge into Narc and other stuff
Cast Ox with LED mana
With Ox trigger, dredge into a bunch more shit
Cast another Ox after cracking the other LED
Go nutty with more Ox draws, Narcs, Bridges, and Therapies
The one Dread Return I saw in the GY wasn't cast
Keep casting Hogaak with Zombies until your first turn has 2 Oxen, 3 Narcs, Gaak, 9 Zombies, 6 dredges from Oxen alone, and 3 cards in your deck

See, that's the play sequence you run the black Force from Modern Horizons for.