Forge Bots

[Daniel Worobec]

Forge Bots

Legacy Forge Bots

Deck designed by: Daniel Worobec

Last updated: June 16, 2023

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Introduction

Forge Bots has evolved over time and the most accurate name to describe it now would be Bots-Stompy-Dreadnought-Karn-Forge-Chalice(SB). Version 4.0 of Forge Bots is not only a fast aggro deck but also has control and removal options available to it as well for versatility.
Below is a breakdown of the features:

Bots – There are eighteen artifact creatures in Forge Bots and four Urza’s Sagas to make token creatures. The creatures consist of 4x Salvage Titan, 4x Frogmite, and 4x Memnite, 3x Phyrexian Dreadnought, 2x Patchwork Automaton, and 1x Haywire Mite in the main deck, 4x Urza’s Saga to create Constructs and to possible tutor for Phyrexian Dreadnoughts, Memnite, Haywire Mite in the main deck and a Phyrexian Dreadnought in the side board that you can wish for with Karn, the Great Creator.

Stompy/Dreadnought– Forge Bots is Stompy in more than one way, not only is there fast mana, there is also multiple alternative ways to cast and combo with creatures. For mana, Forge Bots has six sol-lands, twelve mana cost zero artifact mana as other fast mana, four Urza’s Saga that produce the normal one mana and can be used to fetch another mana such as Lion’s Eye Diamond and two other lands that can produce one colored mana. 4x Ancient Tomb, 2x City of Traitors, 4x Urza’s Saga, 4x The Mycosynth Gardens, 1x Boseiju, Who Endures, 1x Mount Doom, 4x Lion’s Eye Diamond, 4x Lotus Petal and 4x Mox Opal. Since Forge Bots has mostly just generic mana in the costs it is also Stompy in a way that you will always have the right color of mana so there is no concern about having the right kind of mana to cast spells. Forge Bots also has eighteen cards that can produce a variety of colors that are also useful to the deck. As for Stompy in the way of creatures, all eighteen creatures have a different ways of getting them onto the battlefield, often you can have your opening hand on the battlefield on turn one. Memnite is a free 1/1. Salvage Titan is basically a free 6/4 with all the free artifact you can sacrifice to it. Frogmite usually is free to play with Affinity ability. Urza’s Saga can be used to create two Construct tokens that can get very large, very fast in Forge Bots. Phyrexian Dreadnought can combo with The Mycosynth Gardens as well as Torpor Orb that can be wished for by Karn, the Great Creator to negate the enter the battlefield penalty. Patchwork Automaton has a low mana cost and can grow large, very fast. Haywire Mite is mostly there as an artifact/enchantment removal option that can also attack/block. Urza’s Saga can be used to fetch a Phyrexian Dreadnought, Memnite or Haywire Mite and Karn, the Great Creator can be used to wish for a Phyrexian Dreadnought. Since there are only eleven cards that require mana 3x Karn, the Great Creator, 2x Mystic Forge, 3x Phyrexian Dreadnought, 2x Patchwork Automaton, 1x Haywire Mite and the rest of the deck can be played for free, Forge Bots can essentially run on very little or no mana, yet has twenty eight mana sources.

Karn – Karn, the Great Creator is great for locking your opponent out of the game with Mycosynth Lattice or can get a Phyrexian Dreadnought/Torpor Orb combo. It can also be used to get any of your sideboard to help you get out of unexpected situation.

Forge – Mystic Forge is the engine in Forge Bots, enabling it to have a turn two win. After casting Mystic Forge I have had 20+ power on the battlefield that same turn and can easily have a third of your deck, on the battlefield in one or on multiple turns and can usually both find Karn, the Great Creator and the mana to lock out your opponent for the rest of the game. Mystic Forge is usually a game changer and sometimes causes the opponent to forfeit.

Chalice(SB) – With so much Stompy mana it is easy to cast Chalice of the Void on turn one along with other creatures. The earlier versions of Forge Bots had Chalice of the Void in the main deck however I moved them to the side board because it interferes with 3x Phyrexian Dreadnought, 1x Haywire Mite and 2x Patchwork Automaton, the rest of Forge Bots is either zero, four or six mana cost. I also felt like Chalice of the Void is not effective against every deck so I moved it to the sideboard. Also if you find that your own Chalice of the Void is being problematic, you can eliminate it with Karn, The Great Creator, sacrifice it to Salvage Titan, destroy it with Engineered Explosives or exile it with Haywire Mite. Urza’s Saga is a workaround if you have Chalice of the Void on the battlefield with one counter on it. You can also wish for Chalice of the Void from your sideboard with Karn, the Great Creator.

Cards in Forge Bots V. 4.0:

4x Salvage Titan
4x Frogmite
4x Memnite
3x Phyrexian Dreadnought
2x Patchwork Automaton
1x Haywire Mite
3x Karn, the Great Creator
2x Mystic Forge
4x Mishra’s Bauble
2x Urza’s Bauble
3x Engineered Explosives
4x Lion’s Eye Diamond
4x Lotus Petal
4x Mox Opal
4x Ancient Tomb
4x Urza’s Saga
4x The Mycosynth Gardens
2x City of Traitors
1x Boseiju, Who Endures
1x Mount Doom

Side Board:

1x Mycosynth Lattice
1x Phyrexian Dreadnought
1x Torpor Orb
1x The Stone Brain
4x Chalice of the Void
3x Tormod’s Crypt
2x Pithing Needle
2x Ethersworn Canonist

How Forge Bots works

Forge Bots is a fast aggro deck that tries to get creatures both big and small as fast as possible that also uses Karn, the Great Creator to lock out your opponent and has a variety of removal options. Mystic Forge supercharges Forge Bots as a draw engine and is also built around Chalice of the Void that can be brought in from the side board. Forge Bot’s speed is based on casting things for free or very little mana along with fast mana for other game winning cards and combos. Forge Bots features creatures that are cast in different ways include free, Affinity for Artifacts, sacrificing artifacts, card combinations, hard cast and lands that create creature tokens. These different ways of casting creatures allows for playing them in different ways to get multiple creatures onto the battlefield on turn one and two, it is just not about casting creatures with mana. Forge Bots is designed so that everything is either free to play or very little mana except for Mystic Forge, Karn, the Great Creator. These cards are usually on the battlefield by turn one or two because of the fast mana in the deck. Forge Bots features thirty three artifacts that are free to play, sixteen lands and eleven cards that will cost mana. Chalice of the Void is great in the sideboard since there is only four mana cost one that can be side boarded out or fetched with Karn, the Great Creator, only two mana cost two spells that are not vital to the deck and no three mana cost spells. Also Engineered Explosives can take advantage of the mana curve in Forge Bots. Mystic Forge is a super engine in Forge Bots. Since almost everything is free to play or low mana, all cards can be cast except for 16 lands, you will usually cast around ten or more cards per turn. Karn, the Great Creator will let you lock your opponent out of the game as well as providing and can wish for cards that can get you out of many situations. Forge Bots is rich in synergies and clever ways to play fast creatures as well as being built around Chalice of the Void and Karn, the Great Creator.

The Cards of Forge Bots

Salvage Titan: Salvage Titan is a 6/4 creature that is cast with no mana and can be brought back from the graveyard or from exile with Karn, the Great Creator. Forge Bots has 25 (29 with Frogmite) artifacts that are free to cast and you will almost always have enough of these in your opening had to play Salvage Titan for free. It is very easy to get artifacts into the graveyard with Forge Bots so exiling three artifacts to return it to your hand is almost always an option. Hard casting Salvage Titan for 4BB is easier and happens more often than you think. Two Lion’s Eye Diamond can be used to cast Salvage Titan. Sacrifice the Diamonds for mana and discard Salvage Titan, then exile three artifacts and return Salvage Titan to your hand and then cast. One Lion’s Eye Diamond is usually enough to cast Salvage Titan along with fast mana from Ancient Tomb, City of Traitors, Mox Opal, Lotus Petal and other lands. Since Salvage Titan is an artifact, it can be cast while on the top of your library with Mystic Forge on the battlefield. You can cast multiple in a turn with Mystic Forge because of the low land count and high amount or artifacts that you will be able to get into play with Mystic Forge. You can also use Salvage Titan’s exiling option to exile artifacts from your graveyard and get them back with Karn, the Great Creator.

Frogmite: 25 zero mana cost artifacts usually enough to let one or more Frogmite to be cast for nothing, sometimes you will have to pay mana for it. Being free to cast along and playing them alongside with other creatures, a free 2/2 is usually pretty good. Though Frogmite is small, being paired with a combination of other 6/4 Salvage Titans and 1/1 Memnites, 12/12 Phyrexian Dreadnoughts, scalable Patchwork Automatons on turn one is often enough to make an opponent concede on turn one or get them down to zero life relatively fast. You can usually see multiple Frogmites cast with a Mystic Forge on the battlefield Frogmite can also be used to make your Construct tokens generated by Urza’s Saga larger, trigger Patchwork Automaton and count towards Metalcraft for you Mox Opals.

Memnite: Zero casting cost artifact is a key component in Forge Bots. A 1/1 may not seem like much but when played alongside with other creatures on turn one and two for free, the total amount of power on the battlefield can quickly win you the game. Memnite is excellent in combination with Mystic Forge, allowing for many to be revealed and cast. Memnite can also be fetched with Urza’s Saga. Memnite also works well in sacrificing to Salvage Titan, affinity for Frogmite metalcraft for Mox Opal, copying with The Mycosynth Gardens, triggering Patchwork Automaton and can make your Construct tokens generated with Urza’s Saga larger.

Phyrexian Dreadnought: Phyrexian Dreadnought has a variety of benefits to Forge Bots. By itself, Phyrexian Dreadnought is not that effective of a card. However when in combination with The Mycosynth Gardens and/or Torpor Orb, you can have a 12/12 Trampler for very little mana. With The Mycosynth Gardens, activate it when Phyrexian Dreadnought’s enter the battlefield ability is on the stack and then sacrifice the copy to the original and after you have one Phyrexian Dreadnought on the battlefield, any additional The Mycosynth Gardens can copy it. Wishing for Torpor Orb from your sideboard with Karn, the Great Creator can negate Phyrexian Dreadnought’s enter the battlefield penalty. Urza’s Saga can also be used to fetch Phyrexian Dreadnought onto the battlefield. You can also sacrifice two Salvage Titans to Phyrexian Dreadnought if you feel that you are able to get one or both back onto the battlefield. If Karn, the Great Creator is the only card you have available to you, you can wish for both Torpor Orb and a Phyrexian Dreadnought within two turns while still having Karn, the Great Creator with a loyalty counter to keep it alive. Phyrexian Dreadnought can also be used to trigger Patchwork Automaton, Affinity for Frogmite, Metalcraft for Mox Opal and can make Construct tokens created with Urza’s Saga larger.

Patchwork Automaton: Patchwork Automaton can get large and sometimes huge fast and also has the Ward ability for protection. With four Ancient Tombs, two City of Traitors, four Lotus Petals and other mana sources, you can often cast Patchwork Automaton on turn one and make it large with the thirty three free artifacts that you can cast and gets larger over time. Patchwork Automaton can get huge if you can get a Mystic Forge onto the battlefield. Having the Ward ability often means that your opponent will not be able to have an answer to Patchwork Automaton until turn three. By then Patchwork Automaton can attack multiple times while being quite large. There are forty other artifacts in the main deck that can be used to trigger +1/+1 counters and Patchwork Automaton can be copied with The Mycosynth Gardens relatively easily. Patchwork Automaton can also be used to sacrifice to Salvage Titan, affinity for Frogmite, trigger other Patchwork Automatons, metalcraft for Mox Opal and can make your Construct tokens larger that are created with Urza’s Saga. Version 4.0 of Forge Bots uses only two copies of Patchwork Automaton because multiples sometimes makes for a cluttered hand although more can be added to a deck based on preference.

Haywire Mite: Haywire Mite is an excellent removal option and can also be used for combat. Though Forge Bots is primarily a colorless deck, there are seventeen mana sources that can be used to activate Haywire Mite including four Lotus Petals, four Mox Opals, four Lion’s Eye Diamonds, four The Mycosynth Gardens and one Boseiju, Who Endures. Only one Haywire Mite is needed in the main deck since there are four Urza’s Sagas to fetch it, two Mystic Forges and six Baubles to help find, a Boseiju, Who Endures to help with removal, four The Mycosynth Gardens to copy it and three Engineered Explosives for additional removal. Haywire Mite can also be used to attack alongside a small army of bots. Haywire Mite can also be sacrificed to Salvage Titan, affinity for Frogmite, metalcraft for Mox Opal, triggers Patchwork Automaton and can make Construct tokens made with Urza’s Saga larger. You can also gain life as a bonus.

Karn, the Great Creator: Karn, the Great Creator is the most versatile and maybe the most deadly card in Forge Bots. Karn, the Great Creator is great at turning off your opponent’s artifacts. It can be used with Mycosynth Lattice to keep your opponent from casting just about any spell for a hard lock while at the same time turning it into a creature as a win condition. Karn, the Great Creator can also wish for artifacts from your sideboard like Phyrexian Dreadnought and Torpor Orb as a win condition if Karn, the Great Creator is your only card available. Karn, the Great Creator is a main deck answer to Chalice of the Void, a very problematic card when an opponent casts it for zero. Karn, the Great Creator can also animate other artifacts like Mystic Forge so you can attack and block with them. Karn, the Great Creator’s last ability can get you cards that you can exile with Mystic Forge and Salvage Titan, or to get the artifact back that your opponent exiled. Another benefit with Karn, the Great Creator is that you can cast the artifacts you wish for with Lion’s Eye Diamond; a turn one Karn, the Great Creator and two Lion’s Eye Diamonds can put your opponent into a fast Mycosynth Lattice lock. Karn, the Great Creator can also be used to wish for artifacts from your sideboard that can help you win the game or keep your opponent from winning the game.

Mystic Forge: This is one of the best cards in Forge Bots. Mystic Forge is often on the battlefield by turn one or two with the availability of fast mana. Since the only eleven cards that really cost mana in Forge Bots you will be able to play a massive amount of cards per turn. Only having sixteen land in the deck minimizes the chance of stopping cards from being played with Mystic Forge. You can cast all the non-land cards in Forge Bots from the top of your library with Mystic Forge. Lion’s Eye Diamond is very effective with Mystic Forge on the battlefield because it acts as having four Black Lotus’. Since the cards are being played off the top of your library and not in your hand, this gets around Lion’s Eye Diamond’s discard penalty, enabling for large amounts of mana for multiple spells that cost mana and spells that do not cost mana. Mystic Forge is also great for casting many artifacts per turn that will greatly increase the size of the Construct tokens created with Urza’s Saga and making Patchwork Automatons larger. Version 4.0 of Forge Bots only has two Mystic Forges in it since you only need one and to make room for other cards.

Mishra’s Bauble/Urza’s Bauble: More zero converted mana cost artifacts is key to Forge Bots working well. Mishra’s Bauble and Urza’s Bauble allow for drawing key cards like Mystic Forge and Karn, the Great Creator. With the ability to be cast for free, you can play Mishra’s Bauble and/or Urza’s Bauble alongside other cards, allowing for an explosive first and second turn with drawing capabilities rather than just play a land, cast a Ponder and then pass the turn. Mishra’s Bauble and Urza’s Bauble can also provide you with information about the cards that the opponent is playing and what card is coming up from the top of your library so you can make better choices. There are also other advantages that have been previously listed as a zero cost artifact.

Engineered Explosives: Engineered Explosives is one of the removal cards in Forge Bots. Not only can it be played as a zero cost artifact, Forge Bots is naturally a Chalice of the Void deck and Engineered Explosives can take advantage of that. Since there are only four mana cost one, two mana cost two and no mana cost three cards in the main deck, you usually do not have to worry about Engineered Explosives destroying your own cards. Though colored mana in Forge Bots can be limited, there are still twelve mana sources that can provide any color of mana, four The Mycosynth Gardens, four Lotus Petal, four Mox Opal and two other lands that produce colored mana, one Boseiju, Who Endures and one Mount Doom. Engineered Explosives can be used to destroy your opponent’s Chalice of the Voids by using colorless mana to cast them and can also be used to destroy your opponents zero mama cost permanents like token creatures if you choose. There are also other advantages that have been previously listed as a zero cost artifact.

Lion’s Eye Diamond: Another free artifact to cast that also produces mana. Lion’s Eye Diamond is good for the reasons mentioned above in combination with Salvage Titan, Mystic Forge, Karn, the Great Creator. Lion’s Eye Diamond can also be used for activated abilities of Urza’s Saga, The Mycosynth Gardens, Engineered Explosives, Mount Doom and Haywire Mite. Lion’s Eye Diamond is also good for Affinity, Metalcarft, Construct tokens and inflating Patchwork Automaton. Lion’s Eye Diamond is another artifact that is free to that also produces mana.

Mox Opal: Another artifact that is free that also produces mana. Having metalcraft on the first turn is never really a problem with 21 (plus four Frogmite and a Haywire Mite) other free to cast artifact in Forge Bots. Mox Opal is a fast for producing mana and also contributes towards the different synergies in Forge Bots. Mox Opal is very helpful in casting Mystic Forge, Karn, the Great Creator, Phyrexian Dreadnought and Haywire Mite fast and also provides colored mana if you want to hard cast Engineered Explosives, Salvage Titan, activate Mount Doom, Boseiju, Who Endures and/or Haywire Mite and cast other cards you may have in your sideboard. Mox Opal is great for casting off the top of your library with Mystic Forge, allowing for an abundance of mana. Mox Opal has other advantages as previously listed as a zero cost artifact.

Lotus Petal is very useful for the advantages listed for Mox Opal above. Also having twelve artifact mana sources in Forge Bots helps to limit the amount of land needed.

Ancient Tomb: Having a land that produces more than one mana further enables the speed of Forge Bots. Since pretty much all of Forge Bots requires only colorless mana, you never really have to worry about having the right color of mana for getting the job done. Nothing like a turn one or two Mystic Forge or Karn, the Great Creator.

Urza’s Saga: Urza’s Saga has the trifecta ability for producing mana, creating creatures and to fetch artifacts onto the battlefield. One Urza’s Saga can create up to two Construct creature tokens with power and toughness equal to the number of artifacts you control, they can be potentially huge-fast with the amount of artifacts in Forge Bots. An Urza’s Saga can search your library for one of three artifact mana sources, a Bauble-draw card, a Memnite, Haywire Mite or most of all a Phyrexian Dreadnought to combo off with. Urza’s Saga can also be used to provide mana over three turns with the third one potentially producing four mana by fetching a Lion’s Eye Diamond.

The Mycosynth Gardens: All three abilities of The Mycosynth Gardens are of benefit to Forge Bots. The first ability provides colorless mana that can be used for most things in Forge Bots. The second ability can filter mana for cards such as Engineered Explosives, Haywire Mite, Boseiju, Who Endures, Mount Doom, Salvage Titan and for Ethersworn Canonist in the sideboard. The third ability can copy any of the forty one artifacts in the main deck and any card in the sideboard. The most notable cards that The Mycosynth Gardens can copy is Phyrexian Dreadnought and Lion’s Eye Diamond. The Mycosynth Gardens can copy Phyrexian Dreadnought when the enter the battlefield trigger is on the stack, you then either just keep the tapped copy or sacrifice the copy to the original Phyrexian Dreadnought for an untapped one. And then after you have one Phyrexian Dreadnought on the battlefield, you can copy it will all future The Mycosynth Gardens. You can also copy Lion’s Eye Diamond for free with The Mycosynth Gardens and then sacrifice the copy right away for mana since Lion’s Eye Diamond does not need to tap to activate; a mana producing land that can also double as a Black Lotus can be very helpful.

City of Traitors: Having a second land that produces more than one mana makes Forge Bots even faster. City of Traitors’ sacrifice penalty is usually not a problem since Forge Bots only has sixteen lands in it and does not need much mana.

Boseiju, Who Endures: Boseiju, Who Endures not only provides colored mana for Haywire Mite, Engineered Explosives and for everything else, it can also be used for artifact, enchantment or non-basic land removal as well. Having the green mana necessary for the channel ability can come from one of twelve mana sources, Mox Opal, Lotus Petal or The Mycosynth Gardens.

Mount Doom: Not only can Mount Doom provide colored mana for Engineered Explosives, Salvage Titan and everything else, it can ping off the last couple of life points the opponent has and has the second most power non-mana ability a land has next to Maze’s End. The ability to have a one sided creature board wipe on as little as turn one can be a very powerful ability. Forge Bots has plenty of mana sources like Lion’s Eye Diamond that can easily provide the seven mana needed. With four Mox Opals, four Urza’s Sagas fetch them, six Baubles to draw them and two Mystic Forges to help find them, along with a The Stone Brain in the sideboard that can be wished for by three Karn, The Great Creator; you can often have the legendary artifact needed to sacrifice to Mount Doom.

Sideboard Cards of Forge bots

Mycosynth Lattice: Is likely the best card in combination with Karn, the Great Creator. Mycosynth Lattice has three effects. The first one of making all permanents artifacts in addition to their normal type and in combination with Karn, the great Creator’s first ability of shutting off all activated abilities of artifacts, your opponents can’t activate any ability, including mana abilities to cast spells. Mycosynth Lattice’s second ability makes it so that the opponent cannot cast any pitch-type cards that are free to play such as Force of Will or even worse, Force of Vigor. The third ability of Mycosynth Lattice allows you to make colored mana if you need too since there are ten cards in the main deck that can benefit from colored mana and Ethersworn Canonists in the sideboard that need it.

Phyrexian Dreadnought: Phyrexian Dreadnought is beneficial to Forge Bots for reasons as mentioned above. One Phyrexian Dreadnought is in the sideboard for several reasons. It can be wished for by one of three Karn, the Great Creator. The Main deck does not need all four. And for the versatility of Karn, the Great Creator that you may only need it to win the game. Karn, the Great Creator can be activated twice to get Phyrexian Dreadnought and a Torpor Orb to win the game with while still staying alive with one devotion counter on it.

Torpor Orb: Good against Thassa’s Oracle and other enter the battlefield threats like mono-white. Also combos with Phyrexian Dreadnought and can be wished for by Karn, the Great Creator.

The Stone Brain: The Stone Brain can stop combo based decks. It can be wished for and brought back with Karn, the Great Creator’s last ability for multiple uses. The Stone Brain can also be sacrificed to Mount Doom.

Chalice of the Void: Though not in the main deck, Forge Bots is still a deck that is built around Chalice of the Void. Chalice of the Void was moved to the sideboard because it was problematic with Phyrexian Dreadnought, Haywire Mite and Patchwork Automaton, that Chalice of the Void is difficult to use in the first game when you don’t know what your opponent is playing and that other cards were more important. If you think Chalice of the Void would be beneficial in game two/three, you can sideboard up to all four in, take out two Phyrexian Dreadnoughts and still be able to use Phyrexian Dreadnought and Haywire Mite with Urza’s Saga. If you think that your own Chalice of the Void is being problematic to you, you can kill it with your own Karn, the Great Creator, Salvage Titan, Engineered Explosives or Haywire Mite. Chalice of the Void is still available to you on game one with Karn, the Great Creator. Since there are only four mana cost one, two mana cost two and no mana cost three in the main deck and with options available for you to remove it from the battlefield if problematic; Chalice of the Void is a good fit in Forge Bots.

Tormod’s Crypt: Ideal for being a zero converted mana cost artifact and being an answer to graveyard based decks and has other advantages to Forge Bots as previously mentioned. Mystic Forge and six Baubles is helpful in getting Tormod’s Crypt out fast if needed. By keeping one Tormod’s Crypt in the sideboard during game two and three is like having nine available to you because Urza’s Saga can fetch it and Karn, the Great Creator can wish for it. Tormod’s Crypt can also be wish for on game one because of Karn, the Great Creator.

Pithing Needle: Pithing Needle is excellent sideboard for Forge Bots at stopping fast combo decks and is also great utility for stopping a variety of cards. I believe two in the sideboard is ideal for the following reasons. If you have the one Pithing Needle in your sideboard and the other Pithing Needle in the main deck after sideboarding, it is like having eight Pithing Needles. You have three Karn, the Great Creator to get one, four Urza’s Saga to get one and the eighth one is in your main deck.

Ethersworn Canonist: Ethersworn Canonist is great for slowing down and sometimes stopping fast decks from working and/or just being a nuisance. Since it does not effect artifacts, Ethersworn Canonist does not limit the amount of cards Forge Bots can cast except for Karn, the Great Creator, but there are only three of them in Forge Bots. Ethersworn Canonist is the only card in the main deck and/or sideboard that requires colored mana to use. On game one you can wish for it with Karn, the Great Creator using one of sixteen mana sources, four Lotus Petal, four Mox Opal, four The Mycosynth Gardens and four Lion’s Eye Diamond. On games two and three you have twelve mana sources to cast it if it started the game in the main deck.

All in all I think Forge Bots is a very unique deck that is fast and fun to play.

Thank you for your consideration,

Daniel Worobec

[mistercakes]

Any reason not to run cranial plating(s)?

[Daniel Worobec]

mistercakes
Any reason not to run cranial plating(s)?

Thank you for your question. I tried Cranial Plating before and it did not work out as well as I thought it would. Forge Bots efficiency is based on having only a few cards that require mana to cast. Cranial Plating is an excellent suggestion but while testing it, I found that it was not as good as I thought it was. I found that I did not have enough artifact on the battlefield to warrant spending three mana on it. When playing Forge Bots you tend to sacrifice most of the artifacts you play like Mishra's Bauble, Urza's Bauble, Lotus Petal, Lion's Eye Diamond, artifacts to Salvage Titan and sacrificing Mox Opals to each other because of the legendary rule. Adding Cranial Plating to Forge Bots would also mean that there would be another thing to keep the tempo of Mystic Forge from working if you did not have enough mana to cast Cranial Plating since it costs mana. Also Cranial Plating requires another creature in order for it to work. If you wanted to try out Cranial Plating in Forge Bots it can still be effective, I would also consider playing Shambling Suit over Cranial Plating though because it is generally the same thing but is a creature instead of an equipment.

I hope this answers you question and thank you again for your comment.

[Draggo]

With zero 1-cmc main deck and 8 sol-lands + petal/mox it's hard not want main deck Chalice.
But I can see the reasoning of not wanting to pay mana. Might be better to swap the Scepter for Chalice and the Titan and Lupine for the mentioned Enforcer and Breaker (or perhaps Mycosynth Golem). That way you can cast your stuff for free and have the Chalice protection main deck.

Looks fun though.

[FTW]

Could Shield Sphere be better than Memnite? I don't see a 1/1 attacker being very relevant but a 0/6 helps protect your life in racing situations. If Depths is popular enough in your meta, you might even want Ornithopter just to chump Marit Lage (also Emrakul and Griselbrand).

Mycosynth Golem looks really bad.

I can see why Cranial Plating doesn't fit. Not only does it cost mana, but Affinity uses it best on evasive creatures, which you lack, and with the BB to move it at instant speed. Does a vanilla 6/4 or 5/5 need to get any fatter? Seems win-more.

Edit: I was also going to suggest MD Chalice, because Chalice @1 seems amazing, but I can see why it's in the SB. Chalice looks awkward while "going off". You may not have 2 mana. If you cast it for 0, it shuts down your whole deck. Revealed off Mystic Forge or stuck in hand with Lupine, both can get awkward. You have to make a calculated decision if Chalice will shut down their deck more than it slows down yours.

[Draggo]

Edit: I was also going to suggest MD Chalice, because Chalice @1 seems amazing, but I can see why it's in the SB. Chalice looks awkward while "going off". You may not have 2 mana. If you cast it for 0, it shuts down your whole deck. Revealed off Mystic Forge or stuck in hand with Lupine, both can get awkward. You have to make a calculated decision if Chalice will shut down their deck more than it slows down yours.

This is why I suggested to swap the creatures when you go for main deck Chalice. I also thought the Golem would give affinity to all your artifacts, not just creatures, so you would be able to combo more easy once you drop it. I should read the card better before posting it.

[BirdsOfParadise]

This is very cool. I like that the deck looks powerful while using a lot of cards that don't normally see play. I also like the ways in which you're making use of LED.

Would the inclusion of Painter's Servant + Grindstone raise the curve too much? An "oops I win" combo could serve as a backup plan to attacking on the ground. I could imagine scenarios where this deck is comboing with Mystic Forge and fast mana but doesn't have time to win via the combat step because an enemy board wipe or combo is incoming.

Secretly I'm asking this question because if the deck already has Lotus Petal/LED/Baubles, and you found a way to fit in Painter's Servant, then you could also shoehorn in Reap, and then you'd have a deck that could win via the combat step or Painter's Servant + Grindstone or a Painter's Servant + Reap loop. :laugh:

Other questions --
Any use for Gaea's Cradle as a 1-of or 2-of? Do you get enough creatures fast for it to be kind of like a Sol land?
Any use for Experimental Frenzy as functional extra copies of the Mystic Forge engine?

Good luck with the deck.

[Laser Brains]

So I copied your list into tappedout.com for a goldfish play test. The first game I had a turn one Mystic Forge followed by 2x Salvage Titans, 2x Lupine Prototypes and a Frogmite on the table by turn 2. Turn 3 was lethal damage.

The second game I had similar results but with all 4x Salvage Titans and 3x Lupine Prototypes on the table by turn three and that was after I had already dealt lethal "goldfish" damage.

Awesome deck! It's an aggro deck but it feels and plays more like combo. Very cool!

I was surprised how handy the Gustha's Scepters turned out to be for activating my Prototypes. Also, Lion's Eye Diamond tricks are tight here. I only tested two games, both of which Chimeric Mass' was dropped for 0 and only used for sacking to Salvage Titans. I'm sure their other uses come in handy too.

[FTW]

both of which Chimeric Mass' was dropped for 0 and only used for sacking to Salvage Titans. I'm sure their other uses come in handy too.

I was wondering about Chimeric Mass too, compared to other 0cc artifacts, but there are probably enough games where you crack LEDs into big mana and can make a 6/6-9/9 that dodges Terminus.

Terminus seems like one of the biggest problems for this deck. It's always the problem for explosive aggro, but even moreso for this deck because it puts Salvage Titan onto the bottom instead of the graveyard. The bottom is literally the worst place. You'll have to Forge through your entire deck to get them back, then risk decking out before you kill them.

Chimeric Mass must help a lot vs Terminus. Can you board into anything else? Chalice of the Void @ 1 disrupts their cantrips, though they will board into Force of Negation so with 6 turn 0 answers Chalice may not resolve. What about a resistor? Is Lodestone Golem too expensive? Defense Grid?

The SB probably also wants 3-4 Silent Gravestone, because most other Brainstorm decks will be gunning for Titan with Surgical Extraction. Gravestone is a low cc artifact. Seems like an elegant solution.

[Daniel Worobec]

Thank you all for your questions and comments. I will try my best to answer them.


With zero 1-cmc main deck and 8 sol-lands + petal/mox it's hard not want main deck Chalice.
But I can see the reasoning of not wanting to pay mana. Might be better to swap the Scepter for Chalice and the Titan and Lupine for the mentioned Enforcer and Breaker (or perhaps Mycosynth Golem). That way you can cast your stuff for free and have the Chalice protection main deck.

I agree with you Draggo that Chalice of the Void can be played in the main deck. If I were to take out something out to add Chalice of the Void to the main deck I would pick Chimeric Mass over Gustha's Scepter because it is more valuable to Forge Bots. My rationale for putting Chalice of the Void in the sideboard is that it may not always be beneficial on the play. On game one you never really know what the opponent is playing and if Chalice of the Void is useful or beneficial to the deck. I chose to play the Salvage Titan/Lupine Prototype build over the Myr Enforcer/Barricade Breaker build because I found that seven mana was too much to play out on turn one and that they would often get stuck on top of the library too often when using Mystic Forge. Salvage Titan and Lupine Prototype can be cast together on turn one and usually go more smoothly with Mystic Forge. I would be happy to hear any feedback if someone were to experiment with any kind of build.


Could Shield Sphere be better than Memnite? I don't see a 1/1 attacker being very relevant but a 0/6 helps protect your life in racing situations. If Depths is popular enough in your meta, you might even want Ornithopter just to chump Marit Lage (also Emrakul and Griselbrand).

Thank you for your question FTW. I think Memnite is better than Shield Sphere because Forge Bots want to be as aggressive as possible. Getting multiple creatures fast out and pressuring the opponent to be on the defensive, you usually do not want to be on defense yourself. You have changed my mind to make a change to the side board because of your Dark Depths/Emrakul, the Aeons Torn/Griselbrand concern; with the right combination they can outrace Forge Bots. I am going to take out a Welding Jar from the side board and am going to put in a Karakas. Along with Pithing Needles it may be enough to slow down large creature combo decks for Forge Bots to win. Ornithopter is cool but I can see adding other card may be more beneficial.


Edit: I was also going to suggest MD Chalice, because Chalice @1 seems amazing, but I can see why it's in the SB. Chalice looks awkward while "going off". You may not have 2 mana. If you cast it for 0, it shuts down your whole deck. Revealed off Mystic Forge or stuck in hand with Lupine, both can get awkward. You have to make a calculated decision if Chalice will shut down their deck more than it slows down yours.

I am happy that you can see why I put Chalice of the Void in the side board. I agree with the above statement.


This is very cool. I like that the deck looks powerful while using a lot of cards that don't normally see play. I also like the ways in which you're making use of LED.

Thank you for your comment BirdsOfParadise, I also enjoy Forge Bots for those reasons.


Would the inclusion of Painter's Servant + Grindstone raise the curve too much? An "oops I win" combo could serve as a backup plan to attacking on the ground. I could imagine scenarios where this deck is comboing with Mystic Forge and fast mana but doesn't have time to win via the combat step because an enemy board wipe or combo is incoming.

You make an excellent suggestion BirdsOfParadise for adding Painter's Servant and Grindstone in the deck. I do not believe those cards would interfere much with the mana in Forge Bots for their benefit. I have considered adding those cards as an alternate win condition but I think I found a better alternative win condition so I did not mention the milling combo. Just adding one Aetherflux Reservoir to the main deck gives you an alternate win condition to Forge Bots without making any significant changes to the deck, also there is room in the side board for one if you choose not to play it main deck. Here is how it works but does require Mystic Forge. Play a Mystic Forge and start playing cards off of the top of your library. Notice how Aetherflux Reservoir's life gain starts to keep track of the spells you cast from the start of the turn much like how you count for the storm ability. With Mystic Forge you will eventually find a Aetherflux Reservoir or even an Inventors' Fair to tutor for one. If you say find Aetherflux Reservoir seventh from the top, you would already have played seven spells, you next spell will give you eight life, the next one nine life and so fourth. Easily you will get to fifty life where you can then deal fifty damage to the opponent and win the game. I think of it as an artifact storm.

Secretly I'm asking this question because if the deck already has Lotus Petal/LED/Baubles, and you found a way to fit in Painter's Servant, then you could also shoehorn in Reap, and then you'd have a deck that could win via the combat step or Painter's Servant + Grindstone or a Painter's Servant + Reap loop.

Very interesting combo BirdsOfParadise! This makes me thing of the card Drafna's Restoration with a Mystic Forge on the battlefield. Return as many artifact to the top of your library as you like and then cast them all with Mystic Forge.

[PHP]BirdsOfParadise

Any use for Gaea's Cradle as a 1-of or 2-of? Do you get enough creatures fast for it to be kind of like a Sol land?
Any use for Experimental Frenzy as functional extra copies of the Mystic Forge engine?

Very interesting questions. I have considered using Gaea's Cradle but it is dependent upon at least having two creatures already on the battlefield to have any additional benefit. When testing Forge Bots I found that I would not have enough creatures early enough to for Gaea's Cradle, that Forge Bots does not need that much mana and that Forge Bots already produces enough mana. I have found that I do get enough creatures out for Gaea's Cradle to act as a Sol land but only after I have played resources to already cast everything that is in my hand. Gaea's Cradle is really good as a second land drop to have lots of mana but by then I find that I already have enough mana.

I have not experimented with Experimental Frenzy but it can be used as extra copies of Mystic Forge. There would have to be alterations to Forge Bots to produce additional red mana to accommodate Experimental Frenzy. Gustha's Scepter and Lion's Eye Diamond may be enough to keep Lupine Prototype attacking since Experimental Frenzy keep you from casting the cards you would have in your hand.


Awesome deck! It's an aggro deck but it feels and plays more like combo. Very cool!

Thank you very much for your compliment Laser Brains! I have tried very hard to make an original deck in my past 25 years of playing Magic and it is good to be recognized.


I was surprised how handy the Gustha's Scepters turned out to be for activating my Prototypes. Also, Lion's Eye Diamond tricks are tight here. I only tested two games, both of which Chimeric Mass' was dropped for 0 and only used for sacking to Salvage Titans. I'm sure their other uses come in handy too.

Chimeric Mass was the last card that I added to Forge Bots. I wanted a creature that could also be zero mana and that could take advantage if I have an abundance of mana. I have consider putting in Welding Jar, Lodestone Bauble and Engineered Explosives in place of it but I found Chimeric Mass to be the best choice.

Thank again for all of your comments and questions and I will try to keep up with many more in the future. It is because of people like you that new decks are thought of, improved upon, evolved and then mastered.

Keep on castin,

Daniel Worobec

[Daniel Worobec]

I was wondering about Chimeric Mass too, compared to other 0cc artifacts, but there are probably enough games where you crack LEDs into big mana and can make a 6/6-9/9 that dodges Terminus.

Terminus seems like one of the biggest problems for this deck. It's always the problem for explosive aggro, but even moreso for this deck because it puts Salvage Titan onto the bottom instead of the graveyard. The bottom is literally the worst place. You'll have to Forge through your entire deck to get them back, then risk decking out before you kill them.

Chimeric Mass must help a lot vs Terminus. Can you board into anything else? Chalice of the Void @ 1 disrupts their cantrips, though they will board into Force of Negation so with 6 turn 0 answers Chalice may not resolve. What about a resistor? Is Lodestone Golem too expensive? Defense Grid?

The SB probably also wants 3-4 Silent Gravestone, because most other Brainstorm decks will be gunning for Titan with Surgical Extraction. Gravestone is a low cc artifact. Seems like an elegant solution.

Thank you for your message FTW. I think I have some answers.

I do like Chimeric Mass because it is optional for it become a creature and dodge Terminus. In regards to Terminus, Forge Bots can recover from a Terminus with a Mystic Forge. The post Terminus turn can be used to put multiple creatures on the battlefield. When using Mystic Forge you usually do not want to play as many creatures as possible you want to play just enough creatures to win the games, so make you reserve future creatures and not deck yourself. Remember that you can stop casting card from the top of your library with Mystic Forge, you don't have to deck yourself. Also if an opponent is playing Terminus in their deck it will usually be a control deck with many turn open that you can attack; you don't all have to do it in one turn with 20+ power worth of creatures. Null Brooch can be put in the sideboard to deal with threats such as Terminus.

In regards to putting Silent Gravestone in the sideboard to protect Salvage Titan. I would say just let Salvage Titan go, there are plenty of more creatures in Forge Bots to win the game with.

Thank you again for your questions and please let me know if my answers have helped in any way or if you have any other questions.

[BirdsOfParadise]

Any thought given yet to Molten Nursery? It's a colorless nonland, so you can cast it off the top with Mystic Forge in play.

Edit: I also turned up Kozilek's Sentinel, which is almost kind of (??) a Lupine Prototype lookalike, and Slip Through Space, which can force through damage.

Edit2: Sky Scourer is like Kozilek's Sentinel but better, and Nettle Drone is a bit like Molten Nursery but different --- it clocks opponents faster but doesn't ping their creatures.

[Draggo]

Even thought there are good arbuments in putting the Chalice to Side, I think you should reconsider.

Goldfishing is all fun and games. But a single counter on the Mystic Force or a Plow on Salvage Titan just makes you look slly when playing. Chalice both draws out counters and protects from Push/Plow and alike. Not to mention crippeling the cantrip-suite of blue decks. If it's good enough to be played in any stompy build since the moment it's been printed, it should be good enough to play here and be the protecting rock this deck really needs.

Anyway. Good luck. I'll keep an eye on the topic since I love to play stupid stuff like Salvage Titan.

[Laser Brains]

Chimeric Mass was the last card that I added to Forge Bots. I wanted a creature that could also be zero mana and that could take advantage if I have an abundance of mana. I have consider putting in Welding Jar, Lodestone Bauble and Engineered Explosives in place of it but I found Chimeric Mass to be the best choice.

Okay, so I had a chance to goldfish a bit more with the deck and I did actually have several hands where Chimeric Mass was super useful as a beater. Often I had him on the table turn one with 4-6 counters. When I need a beater he's great and when I need to cycle with Mystic Forge he can later be sacked to Salvage Titan.

Chalice needs to be tested main deck (if you haven't done so already). It will get in the way though when you need to cycle with Mystic Forge and don't have mana. You certainly don't want to drop it for zero and hose your whole game plan.

Birds of Paradise's suggestion of Molten Nursery and Sky Scourer seem plausible with some testing. You'd have to cut Inventor's Fair and Blast Zone for Mountains though. Not sure if they're a good enough addition to warrant that. Plus you'd have to cut one of your beaters to fit them in. Also, they could stall you when you need to cycle with Forge.

[FTW]

Birds of Paradise's suggestion of Molten Nursery and Sky Scourer seem plausible with some testing.

Although they are colorless nonlands, they are not artifacts. They work with Mystic Forge, but not with Salvage Titan or Mox Opal or Inventors' Fair. They do trigger off your spells, but there is a drawback, and they require colored mana.

The other problem is they don't count spells cast before, only ones cast afterwards. If you have to dig a while to find them, none of those other spells count. Aetherflux Reservoir is an artifact and counts every spell before too. Reservoir deserves a slot before either of those spells.

[BirdsOfParadise]

Although they are colorless nonlands, they are not artifacts. They work with Mystic Forge, but not with Salvage Titan or Mox Opal or Inventors' Fair. They do trigger off your spells, but there is a drawback, and they require colored mana.

The other problem is they don't count spells cast before, only ones cast afterwards. If you have to dig a while to find them, none of those other spells count. Aetherflux Reservoir is an artifact and counts every spell before too. Reservoir deserves a slot before either of those spells.
All fair points. I was searching for Devoid cards since they work with Mystic Forge, and I shared my best finds, but they’re not necessarily optimal. Aetherflux Reservoir is probably the best win condition that avoids the combat step. However, despite the drawbacks of requiring colored mana and not being an artifact, Molten Nursery does more against creature decks than Aetherflux Reservoir does. So it might have its uses as a SB card and/or in a red version of the deck.

Blast Zone is probably too good to give up though.

[Daniel Worobec]

Even thought there are good arbuments in putting the Chalice to Side, I think you should reconsider.

Goldfishing is all fun and games. But a single counter on the Mystic Force or a Plow on Salvage Titan just makes you look slly when playing. Chalice both draws out counters and protects from Push/Plow and alike. Not to mention crippeling the cantrip-suite of blue decks. If it's good enough to be played in any stompy build since the moment it's been printed, it should be good enough to play here and be the protecting rock this deck really needs.

Anyway. Good luck. I'll keep an eye on the topic since I love to play stupid stuff like Salvage Titan.



Chalice needs to be tested main deck (if you haven't done so already). It will get in the way though when you need to cycle with Mystic Forge and don't have mana. You certainly don't want to drop it for zero and hose your whole game plan.


I do admit that I have been mostly goldfighing Forge Bots but the tournaments I have played it in Chalice of the Void was very good in it. I hear and appreciate everyone’s opinion of having Chalice of the Void in the main deck. Soon I am going update the original post to include a separate but equally important version of Forge Bots that includes Chalice of the Void in the main deck. I am also going to start testing out Chalice of the Void both in tournaments and goldfishing to see it is better in the main deck than in the sideboard. The alternate deck will have the following changes made to it:

Main deck Forge Bots with Chalice:

+4 Chalice of the Void
-4 Urza’s Bauble

Sideboard Forge Bots with Chalice:

-4 Chalice of the Void
+3 Warping Wail
+1 Karakas

I will make the changes to the first post after I get some sleep tonight along with some rationale.

There has also been some interest in adding colored creatures to Forge Bots. I have found Glaze Fiend to be pretty good.

Thank you to everyone who has contributed towards Forge Bots. I look forward to future thoughts, questions and opinions.

[Mr. Headshot]

I have ordered some cards to start goldfishing. :-)

Are there any video's of this new deck?

Some idea's to manipulate the top of your library:

Artificer's Assistant
Smuggler's Copter

Best regards,

[Daniel Worobec]

I have ordered some cards to start goldfishing. :-)

Are there any video's of this new deck?

Some idea's to manipulate the top of your library:

Artificer's Assistant
Smuggler's Copter

Best regards,

I have not see any videos of Forge Bots yet, the deck premiered just last week.

Artificer's Assistant and Smuggler's Copter are ideas I have not considered. Thank you for your recommendation.

If anyone else knows of any videos of Forge Bots I am also curious.

[Daniel Worobec]

There has been some debate as to what version of Forge Bots is better, Forge Bots with Chalice of the Void in the main deck and Forge Bots with Chalice of the Void in the side board. The purpose of this post is to provide information to aid in the decision as to which version is preferred.

Method:

Information has been gathered from www.mtggoldfish.com on the Legacy tournaments since January 17, 2020, on decks that have placed well, with an analysis of 236 decks.

Legacy Challenge#12076817 – Includes the top 32 decks
Legacy League 2020-01-25 – Includes decks that won 5/5 matches
Legacy Preliminary #12076802 – Includes decks that have record 3/2 or better
Legacy Preliminary #12077102 – Includes decks that have record 3/2 or better
Legacy Preliminary #12071865 – Includes decks that have record 3/2 or better
Legacy Challenge # 12071845 – Includes the top 32
Legacy Premier #12071821 – Includes the top 16
Legacy League 2020-01-18 – Includes decks that won 5/5 matches
Buffalo Chicken Dip Legacy 3 2020-01-18 – Includes the top 32 decks
Legacy Preliminary #12071831 – Includes decks that have record 3/2 or better

A total of 236 were analyzed to determine the total number of cards within the deck with converted mana cost (CMC) one, two and three. These three mana costs were chosen because Forge Bots has no CMC one, only 4 CMC two and no CMC three cards within the main deck. With these limited low number of converted mana costs in Forge Bots, adding four copies of Chalice of the Void to the main deck or sideboard is ideal. The main drawback of adding Chalice of the Void to the main deck is that it is a card with that will cost mana since casting it for no mana would be disastrous to Forge Bots as described on the original post.

Data:

In choosing the cards to include within the calculations, cards were not included or added for the following reasons:

-IF the card is not likely going to be cast and used for other purposes in limited circumstances such as Elvish Spirit Guide, Simian Spirit Guide and Bridge from Below
-If Chalice of the Void is not going to have an impact on the card being cast, such as not being able to be countered like Abrupt Decay
-Cards with the adventure subtype are counted twice such as Brazen Borrower and Petty Theft
-Cards will be excluded if there is no way cast them such as in Manaless Dredge but will include the cards that can be cast with alternative means such as Cabal Therapy
-Cards with X in their mana costs are excluded since the X card can get around Chalice of the Void

Total # of decks included = 236
Total # of CMC=1 in all decks = 3272
Total # of CMC=2 in all decks = 2065
Total # of CMC=3 in all decks = 1326

Average # of CMC=1 in all decks = 13.86
Average # of CMC=2 in all decks = 8.75
Average # of CMC=3 in all decks = 5.62
Total # of CMC= 1, 2 and 3 in all decks = 28.23

% of CMC=1 cards in all decks = 23.11%
% of CMC=2 cards in all decks = 14.58%
% of CMC=3 cards in all decks = 9.36%
Total % of CMC= 1, 2 and 3 in all decks = 47.05%

Findings:

Analysis of 236 deck that are recent and that have placed well in tournaments is a reasonable sample size. Percentage of CMC 1, 2, and 3 of cards in all decks are 23.11%, 14.58% and 9.36% in retrospect and the Total percentage of CMC 1, 2 and 3 cards in all deck is 47.05%. With a large percentage of cards being countered by Chalice of the Void in comparison to only four Lupine Prototypes within the main deck for Forge Bots, it is my opinion that I prefer having four copies of Chalice of the Void in the main deck rather than in the sideboard. After goldfishing Forge Bots with four copies of Chalice of the Void in the main deck verses in the sideboard as listed in the original post, the disadvantage of Forge Bots with Chalice of the Void in the main deck being slower than the version with Chalice of the Void in the sideboard; the advantages of Chalice of the Void in the main deck outweigh the disadvantages.

Comments from other readers would be greatly appreciated and welcome.

Other information:

The total number of decks with four copies of Chalice of the Void in the total 236 is 47. 19.91% of the deck within the sample have four copies of Chalice of the Void in them.

Daniel Worobec

[Daniel Worobec]

https://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=476488&type=card

I have been looking at the tournaments on MTGGoldfish.com and at my current sideboard for Forge Bots. Soul-Guide Lantern looks like a good card to add to the side board and I am wondering if I could get some feedback from people as to add come copies to the side board? Here is the data from the top performing decks in eleven tournaments since January 31st 2020:

45 of 241 or 18.7% decks are reliant on using the graveyard
34 of 241 or 14.1% decks are somewhat reliant on using the graveyard
162 of 241 or 67.25 decks are not reliant on using the graveyard

So adding Soul-Guide Lantern to the sideboard will effect 32.7% (roughly on third) of current decks.

Adding Soul-Guide Lantern could be used against faster decks like Reanimator, Jeski Breach, Dredge and Hogaak. Soul-Guide Lantern can also be used to draw cards and to draw the card off the top of your library if it stops you from using Mystic Forge. The downside is that it will take the place of another sideboard card, costs one to cast and can be countered by your own Chalice of the Void. The sideboard already has four Tormod’s Crypt but I think adding Soul-Guide Lantern may also be beneficial.

Here is my current list:

4x Salvage Titan
4x Lupine Prototype
4x Frogmite
4x Memnite
4x Chimeric Mass
4x Mishra’s Bauble
4x Gustha’s Scepter
4x Chalice of the Void
4x Mystic Forge
4x Lion’s Eye Diamond
4x Mox Opal
4x Lotus Petal
4x Ancient Tomb
4x City of Traitors
3x Blast Zone
1x Inventors’ Fair

Side Board:

2x Warping Wail
4x Tormod’s Crypt
4x Engineered Explosives
3x Pithing Needle
2x Karakas


Again I asking for feedback and opinions from fellow players to see if Soul-Guide Lantern should be in Forge Bot’s side board? Thank you.

[Daniel Worobec]

New cards for Forge Bots:

https://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=479751&type=card https://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&multiverseid=479741 https://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=484918&type=card

Ikoria: Lair of Behemoths and Commander 2020 has brought Forge Bots three new cards, Umori, the Collector, Gyruda, Doom of Depths and Nesting Grounds. Forge Bots takes full advantage of the new Companion ability with two creatures you can add to the sideboard where Forge Bots meets both of the companion requirments.

Umori, the Collector: This card is excellent for Forge Bots. After goldfishing Forge Bots several times with the new cards I find that Umori, the Collector is cast usually on turn one or two thanks to the fast mana and Lion’s Eye Diamond. Because Forge Bots empties its hand fast, Lion’s Eye Diamond’s discard penalty is usually not a problem. Mystic Forge really takes advantage of Umori, the Collector’s ability to reduce the mana cost for artifacts, allowing you to cast far more spells using Mystic Forge. Lion’s Eye Diamond is not required to cast Umori, the Collector, there is enough fast mana in Forge Bots to cast him without discarding your hand. Forge Bots is now more consistent with getting multiple large creatures onto the battlefield, fast.

Gyruda, Doom of Depths: I included this card in the sideboard because it can be more appropriate than Umori, the Collector against certain decks but I believe Umori, the Collector is a better companion overall. Choosing Gyruda, Doom of Depths is good against other creature decks such as Eldrazi and decks containing Griselbrand like Reanimator and Show and Tell decks. Having a 6/6 Gyruda, Doom of Depths can handle a 5/5 Reality Smasher and a 4/4 Thought-Knot Seer while also being able to get an opponent’s Thought-Knot Seer or Eldrazi Mimic or one of your own Salvage Titans, Lupine Prototype, Frogmite or Memnite onto the battlefield for free. The same goes for an opponent’s Griselbrand. If you have Mystic Forge on the battlefield and a Salvage Titan is on the top of your library, cast Gyruda, Doom of Depths from your sideboard for twelve power worth of creatures.

Nesting Grounds: This version of Forge Bots contains 4x Chalice of the Void, 4x Engineered Explosives, 4x Chimeric Mass and a Blast Zone. Nesting Grounds gives you the ability to exchange charge counters of a network of artifacts that counters spells, destroys permanents and makes creatures larger. Being able to adjust your Chalice of the Void or Engineered Explosives can be a large advantage if later you find out what kind of deck your opponent is using. Also Chalice of the Void usually in 20% to 35% of decks and if your opponent casts it for zero, it can significantly slow down Forge Bots. If your opponent has a Chalice of the Void on the battlefield with no charge counters on it, you can move a charge counter from one of your thirteen cards that can produce them onto your opponent’s Chalice of the Void, potentially turning their own Chalice against them since Forge Bots has no converted mana cost one or three cards in it.

This is the current deck list I have. I will be testing this version on MTGO when the cards are out and later upgrade the first Forge Bots post.

Main Deck:

4x Mystic Forge
4x Gustha’s Scepter
4x Chalice of the Void
4x Engineered Explosives
4x Chimeric Mass
4x Salvage Titan
4x Lupine Prototype
4x Frogmite
4x Memnite
4x Lion’s Eye Diamond
4x Mox Opal
4x Lotus Petal
4x Ancient Tomb
2x Nesting Grounds
1x Blast Zone
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

Sideboard:

1x Umori, the Collector
1x Gyruda, Doom of Depths
4x Tormod’s Crypt
3x Sorcerous Spyglass
2x Ethersworn Canonist
2x Karakas
2x Welding Jar

[Daniel Worobec]

I have updated the first post to include new cards and changes.

Feedback is welcome.

[Daniel Worobec]

I think Forge Bots is a deck now.

https://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&multiverseid=522335 https://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=463995&type=card https://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&multiverseid=522301

Now that Modern Horizon’s 2 came out with Urza’s Saga and Diamond Lion and adding in Echo of Eons, I think the following, upgraded Forge Bots list below is tournament worthy.

The new version has lots of mana, lots of draw, many free creatures, along with Chalice of the Void and a Companion.

Forge Bots version 3.0:

4x Salvage Titan
4x Memnite
4x Frogmite
3x Diamond Lion
4x Mystic Forge
4x Echo of Eons
4x Mishra’s Bauble
2x Urza’s Bauble
4x Chalice of the Void
3x Welding Jar
4x Urza’s Saga
4x Ancient Tomb
4x City of Traitors
4x Lion’s Eye Diamond
4x Mox Opal
4x Lotus Petal

Sideboard:

1x Gyruda, Doom of Depths
4x Tormod’s Crypt
4x Engineered Explosives
3x Sorcerous Spyglass
2x Ethersworn Canonist
1x Karakas

[Laser Brains]

This deck is a riot! I remember play testing this when you were first developing it. I loved it then and love now! I just threw this up on my goldfishing app and first turn I had a Chalice set at 1, a Salvage Titan and 2x Frogmites in play. It's explosive no doubt! Great ingenuity! Sagas look good here and the Echos really add a lot! It seems like it tends to stall a bit more than it did (if I'm remembering playing your older builds correctly) but that is circumvented with the Echos. Diamond Lions are great here!

I was thinking about the fact that Mystic Forge lets you peek at the top card of your library and wondered if Codex Shredder wouldn't suck here. It only cost one and Shredder could help assist nixing the top card of your library when you stall out with Mystic Forge.

Another thought is Lantern of Insight. It's main ability (looking at the top card of your library) isn't super great here but it's secondary ability which lets you shuffle when you stall out doesn't suck at all.

Both together do awesome shit. Not only for helping you go off but also for nixing your opponent's Terminus or other major threat your opponent might come up with.

The deck is amazing as it is, so I wouldn't want to change to much, but those options might be worth looking into.

Have you had a chance to test it against the gauntlet?

[Daniel Worobec]

This deck is a riot! I remember play testing this when you were first developing it. I loved it then and love now! I just threw this up on my goldfishing app and first turn I had a Chalice set at 1, a Salvage Titan and 2x Frogmites in play. It's explosive no doubt! Great ingenuity! Sagas look good here and the Echos really add a lot! It seems like it tends to stall a bit more than it did (if I'm remembering playing your older builds correctly) but that is circumvented with the Echos. Diamond Lions are great here!

I was thinking about the fact that Mystic Forge lets you peek at the top card of your library and wondered if Codex Shredder wouldn't suck here. It only cost one and Shredder could help assist nixing the top card of your library when you stall out with Mystic Forge.

Another thought is Lantern of Insight. It's main ability (looking at the top card of your library) isn't super great here but it's secondary ability which lets you shuffle when you stall out doesn't suck at all.

Both together do awesome shit. Not only for helping you go off but also for nixing your opponent's Terminus or other major threat your opponent might come up with.

The deck is amazing as it is, so I wouldn't want to change to much, but those options might be worth looking into.

Have you had a chance to test it against the gauntlet?

Thank you for your kind words Laser Brains, it is good to see people taking an interest in Forge Bots.

I agree with you that using Mystic Forge is a bit more sluggish than my earlier versions of Forge Bots but with the addition of Echo of Eons and Urza’s Saga, Forge Bots is not as reliant on Mystic Forge in the newest and Mystic Forge can still be explosive, on multiple turns.

When I first designed Forge Bots I heavily considered using a Lantern of Insight control strategy that used cards like Codex Shredder. The advantages of adding Codex Shredder to the new list would be good with Urza’s Saga fetching it, putting Echo of Eons in the graveyard and use to mill with Mystic Forge as you mentioned. The disadvantages of using Codex Shredder and to some degree Lantern of Insight would be that it can be countered with Chalice of the Void as I find the most common amount of charge counters on it is one. Another disadvantage is that I cannot use Gyruda, Doom of Depths as a companion, which really seems to be very useful with all the fast mana. Also as I mentioned earlier is that the new version of Forge Bots does not rely on Mystic Forge as much so adding cards to help Mystic Forge being more effective might take up spots of other cards that may be more useful. But all this is my speculation and I have not tested using a Lantern control package. I do believe using Codex Shredder and Lantern of Insight is worth looking into, one of my greatest joys in life is to see people prove me wrong and to innovate.
As for answering you question of if I have tested it, I have only goldfished it at this point. I would like to test it out in paper tournaments but the pandemic is in the way and I still have to get the rest of the cards on MTGO. I always welcome people to test Forge Bots or any version of Forge Bots and share their feedback.

I thank you again for your interest Laser Brains as well as everyone else!

[Laser Brains]

Good call with Shredder being a one drop nombo with Chalice. I think i’d leave it as it is. Plus you can’t play your companion.

I might Proxy this up and play it next Friday. Looks like I will most likely be playing against Jund and Bant Control. I’ll let you know how it does. Any other decks you’d like me to test it against? We’ve got pretty much the entire gauntlet proxied up.

[Daniel Worobec]

Good call with Shredder being a one drop nombo with Chalice. I think i’d leave it as it is. Plus you can’t play your companion.

I might Proxy this up and play it next Friday. Looks like I will most likely be playing against Jund and Bant Control. I’ll let you know how it does. Any other decks you’d like me to test it against? We’ve got pretty much the entire gauntlet proxied up.

I would greatly appreciate any feedback from play testing. I am not too sure of any other decks to test against. I am concerned with cards that can shut down Forge Bots like not being to attack with Ensnaring Bridge and how Forge Bots deal with threats since the amount of removal available to it is slim. I have been tinkering with using Engineered Explosives in place of Welding Jar as a means of removal but I find Engineered Explosives not being useful with the available mana; Engineered Explosives is in the side board mostly for Chalice of the Void. I am unsure of the side board and I would like to refine it. Warping Wail may be good in the sideboard. I have also been wondering if I should add one or more Aetherflux Reservoir to the sideboard as an alternative win condition? With the amount of card draw Forge Bots has, you probably don't need a tutor for it and over one or more turns with Mystic Forge it can win the game.

[Laser Brains]

Have you goldfished with Aetherflux Resevoir? Does it feel like you can gain 30+ life within the first few turns to secure this victory? If not, I wonder if there's a way to power out a ton of life with your shell to make this the main win con.

What about Karn, the Great Creator? You don't want to run too many 4 drops but Karn seems not shitty here. Especially with all of the LEDs running around. Tutor a card with Karn, crack an LED in response for mana to cast it.

After play testing your deck the first thing that crossed my mind was "storm kill". Tutors in combination with LED such as Infernal Tutor, Burning Wish, Intuition, etc.. seem like they'd be perfect for searching up a storm spell for the finish. Have you toyed with these options? I'm trying to think of other ways to take advantage of your LEDs since you're running 7 of them.

I'm loving your original deck and honestly don't think it needs a whole lot of work, if any. The deck powers out dudes and threats fast. Just curious if you toyed with any of those options.

[FTW]

Is it worth playing 4x Karn, the Great Creator here? You don't have to play the full usual Karn package, but it would still give you access to 1x of cards like Aetherflux Reservoir (alternate wincon) or 1x Mycosynth Lattice. It can also function as a wincon itself. You can get Reservoir only when it is good, without diluting the main plan much by running maindeck copies. It would also help you grab SB cards so you can cut down on copies to make space.

[Daniel Worobec]

https://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=460928&type=card

I have experimented with Karn, the Great Creator and I have reconsidered using it.

Forge Bots:

4x Karn, the Great Creator
4x Chalice of the Void

4x Salvage Titan
4x Frogmite
4x Memnite

4x Mystic Forge
4x Mishra’s Bauble
4x Urza’s Bauble

4x Ancient Tomb
4x City of Traitors
4x Urza’s Saga
4x Lion’s Eye Diamond
4x Mox Opal
4x Lotus Petal
4x Grim Monolith

Side Board:

1x Gyruda, Doom of Depths
4x Tormod’s Crypt
3x Sorcerous Spyglass
3x Defense Grid
1x Karakas
1x Mycosynth Lattice
1x Aetherflux Reservoir
1x Liquimetal Coating

I have tested out this new version of Forge Bots and the results look quite promising. This version is not as explosive with creatures as the last version however it has a Karn, the Great Creator package which makes it more versatile in addition to winning with fast creatures. Forge Bots has always been a home for Karn, the Great Creator with the cards already in it. With the addition of Karn, the Great Creator, I can lock out the opponent fast with Mycosynth Lattice and Liquimetal Coating, a one sided Null Rod, main deck answer to Chalice of the Void, tutor for side board cards and have access to Aetherflux Reservoir.

Aetherflux Reservoir is a good alternative win condition. Mystic Forge has the capability to cast many spells in a turn, enough to get you to 50+ life easily to have Aetherflux Reservoir win you the game, even though you have life loss with four Ancient Tombs and four Mystic Forges. Think of Aetherflux Reservoir as a storm card like Tendrils of Agony in a storm deck, accept it is an artifact storm. The good part about Aetherflux Reservoir is that with Mystic Forge, it counts the spells cast before it so you don’t have to play it and start the count after it has entered the battlefield. It can also be safer than storm decks since you can get to the fifty life over multiple turns so you don’t kind of fizzle out. When compared to other storm decks Karn, the Great Creator is kind of like a wish spell to get the storm card out of your sideboard. Aetherflux Reservoir is also excellent for just gaining life if you are getting low to play out a late game.

[Vacrix]

Karn, the Great Creator feels like the other engine, but the aggro plan seems about as good since everything comes out so quickly. From what I’ve read, Forge Bots can use the plenum of mana it has available more easily with an engine in play, ie Mystic Forge. Karn can only be used once unless you can play another.. If it only finds Aetherflux, then is a bit limited. It needs to engine or lock piece, when compared to the other 4 drop. Trinisphere after getting a bunch of dudes into play will get there.

Mystic Forge is too powerful to move one to the board for Karn.

From Karn to Aetherflux is 8. If it were another deck I’d say that’s a lot of mana. It enables wins without the passing the turn or the combat phase.

Alternatively and sort of similarly, for a higher cost..
Phyrexian Devourer can remove the land (0 cmc) off the top each time you hit one with Mystic Forge so you would never run into a land. Basically you could play the rest of the deck. If at all, how often will this be better than just going straight to Aetherflux?

Akroma’s Memorial confers haste and flying. It could be a Karn target out of the board. Again, it doesn’t seem like it’s better than Aetherflux. Perhaps it would be more reasonable in a list with Lupine Prototype and Sojourner’s Companion.

[Daniel Worobec]

Thank you for your response Vacrix, your feedback is very insightful.


Karn, the Great Creator feels like the other engine, but the aggro plan seems about as good since everything comes out so quickly. From what I’ve read, Forge Bots can use the plenum of mana it has available more easily with an engine in play, ie Mystic Forge. Karn can only be used once unless you can play another.. If it only finds Aetherflux, then is a bit limited. It needs to engine or lock piece, when compared to the other 4 drop. Trinisphere after getting a bunch of dudes into play will get there.

You are right about Karn, the Great Creator being another engine. Of course Mystic Forge is the better engine but you don’t get Mystic Forge in your hand all the time. Having Karn, the Great Creator creates not only an alternative win condition with Aetherflux Reservoir, it also gives you the option to play control with Mycosynth Lattice and Liquimetal Coating, is an answer to your opponent’s Chalice of the Void, is a one sided Null Rod, can animate artifacts to attack with and can get any artifact from your sideboard to deal with a variety of threats from the opponent by wishing for sideboard cards. I find that without Karn, the Great Creator in Forge Bots, the deck has very little options to deal with an opponent’s threats. I also find that I can get multiple Karn, the Great Creator out in a turn with Mystic Forge.


Mystic Forge is too powerful to move one to the board for Karn.

I agree.


From Karn to Aetherflux is 8. If it were another deck I’d say that’s a lot of mana. It enables wins without the passing the turn or the combat phase.

I like Aetherflux Reservoir as a plan B win condition because there are many ways the opponent can keep creatures from attacking and the like.


Alternatively and sort of similarly, for a higher cost..
Phyrexian Devourer can remove the land (0 cmc) off the top each time you hit one with Mystic Forge so you would never run into a land. Basically you could play the rest of the deck. If at all, how often will this be better than just going straight to Aetherflux?

Thank you for recommending Phyrexian Devourer. I really like this idea! You are not just limited to Aetherflux Reservoir, you can use Karn, the Great Creator to get multiple artifacts.


Akroma’s Memorial confers haste and flying. It could be a Karn target out of the board. Again, it doesn’t seem like it’s better than Aetherflux. Perhaps it would be more reasonable in a list with Lupine Prototype and Sojourner’s Companion.

Akroma’s Memorial is a great enabler for making creatures attack sooner. I would like to put out there though that Time Sieve I think is good for making Forge Bots faster. With a Mystic Forge out in play you can easily generate an additional five artifacts a turn, essentially you can get enough turns to win you the game.

I have also considered adding Forsaken Monument to the side board.

I am also looking for recommendations for cards to put in the side board.

[Vacrix]

Akroma’s Memorial is a great enabler for making creatures attack sooner. I would like to put out there though that Time Sieve I think is good for making Forge Bots faster. With a Mystic Forge out in play you can easily generate an additional five artifacts a turn, essentially you can get enough turns to win you the game.

I have also considered adding Forsaken Monument to the side board.

I am also looking for recommendations for cards to put in the side board.
Got one my dude; Ugin’s Nexus does a Time Sieve for 5 in colorless tutorable via Karn if you have a sac outlet like Salvage Titan. Also, you can play a second one to get the turns trigger via the Legend rule. This seems ideal in a list running Karn because you can tutor it again after you sac and exile it for an extra turn because Karn tutors from the board or exile. More synergies than running Akroma’s Memorial since it confers an extra card, untap phase for Mystic Forge and artifact permanents, land drop, attack phase, and another go at playing out a portion of the deck with the potential to time walk again. Perhaps 2 in the board? My only concern would be having enough sac outlets in the maindeck, particularly when a sac outlet means Karn can function as a double time walk.

Lightning Greaves and Diamond Lion in multiples go together to make a lot of mana. I imagine that Greaves doesn’t have enough synergy in the maindeck tho. Any ideas on how to Haste the Lion in colorless? Ugin’s Nexus conferring extra turns works as pseudo haste but perhaps Lion could be online faster than that.


EDIT:
Just noticed a potential line in Mirror of Fate as a Karn tutorable. If you have Mystic Forge already, you can loop Salvage Titan’s to exile mana producing artifacts from the graveyard like Lion’s Eye Diamond’s, then stack an up to 7 card Mirror pile as the deck, then play each of them off the top with the Mystic Forge. Seems like it would be more than enough to Karn into Aetherflux. Karn isn’t an artifact means having another way to exile Karn, perhaps with Mystic Forge, though I think more exile synergies would have to be accounted for in this line. Double Karn gets one to the yard, but Salvage Titan only exiles artifacts. Multiple Mystic Forge is a bit costly but it does provide an additional exile of the top card. I feel like there is an easier way though. Perhaps Tormod’s Crypt in the maindeck? Double Karn, sac one, Crypt your own yard, Karn for Mirror of Fate, stack the deck as an ideal 7, then via Mystic Forge, LED, LED, etc, Karn, find Aetherflux.

EDIT 2:
A potential line I just noticed with maindeck Crypt(s).
Karn in play, play Crypt, LED, Petal, sac both to get to 4, discard Mystic Forge, Crypt your yard to exile Mystic Forge, Karn for the exiled Mystic Forge.

[Daniel Worobec]

Well I have been spending a lot of time working on the sideboard, mostly cards for Karn, the Great Creator to search for. Here is an updated deck list:
Forge Bots:

4x Karn, the Great Creator
4x Chalice of the Void

4x Salvage Titan
4x Frogmite
4x Memnite

4x Mystic Forge
4x Mishra’s Bauble
4x Urza’s Bauble

4x Ancient Tomb
4x City of Traitors
4x Urza’s Saga
4x Lion’s Eye Diamond
4x Mox Opal
4x Lotus Petal
4x Grim Monolith

Side Board:

1x Gyruda, Doom of Depths
1x Mycosynth Lattice
1x Aetherflux Reservoir
1x Liquimetal Coating
1x Time Sieve
4x Defense Grid
3x Tormod’s Crypt
1x Sorcerous Spyglass
1x Ratchet Bomb
1x Karakas

In regards to sideboard choices I have the following. Gyruda, Doom of Depths is good as a companion, Forge Bots generates a lot of mana and Gyruda, Doom of Depths is available at any time, it also can get one of 12 creatures from the main deck for free or even get an opponent’s Griselbrand. Mycosynth Lattice and Liquimetal Coating are hard and soft locks with Karn, the Great Creator. Aetherflux Reservoir is an alternate win condition and can also be used for just gaining lots of life.



Got one my dude; Ugin’s Nexus does a Time Sieve for 5 in colorless tutorable via Karn if you have a sac outlet like Salvage Titan. Also, you can play a second one to get the turns trigger via the Legend rule. This seems ideal in a list running Karn because you can tutor it again after you sac and exile it for an extra turn because Karn tutors from the board or exile. More synergies than running Akroma’s Memorial since it confers an extra card, untap phase for Mystic Forge and artifact permanents, land drop, attack phase, and another go at playing out a portion of the deck with the potential to time walk again. Perhaps 2 in the board? My only concern would be having enough sac outlets in the maindeck, particularly when a sac outlet means Karn can function as a double time walk.

Vacrix has brought up a good point of using Ugin’s Nexus as an alternative to Time Sieve; I have also considered Gonti’s Aether Heart. After testing all these options I found that Time Sieve was the most effective. Mystic Forge can generate an abundance of artifacts every turn but surprisingly cannot generate consistent mana every turn without considerable costs; most mana is one use, you can only have one City of Traitors and Ancient Tomb cases lots of life loss. Time Sieve is two mana and is fueled by the abundance of free artifacts that Mystic Forge generates every turn, even with four Salvage Titans. I have also found that playing Time Sieve, you may not need cards like Paradox Engine to help plow through the deck to play as many cards as you can and to fuel Aetherflux Reservoir. With the way Forge Bots is, having untap steps with one or more Mystic Forge(s) in play seems to be enough with Time Sieve to see enough of your deck and play enough cards to win the game; also giving you multiple attack steps and activations with Karn, the Great Creator.

Defense Grid I am adding because there are just so much counter magic out there along with Force of Vigor. Forge Bots utilizes casting key cards at the cost of considerable resources in exchange for it’s speed, such as going all in on a first turn Mystic Forge or Karn lock. Counter Magic can stall Forge Bots for a while.

Tormod’s Crypt is useful since Forge Bots will be competing with fast decks that use graveyards to fuel their speed.

Sorcerous Spyglass is good for peeking at an opponent’s hand as well as stopping some fast combo decks. It can also be found with Karn, the Great Creator.

Ratchet Bomb is good to for removal. Since Forge Bots does not have any mana cost one or three cards and only four mana cost two cards that are expendable in the main deck, Ratchet Bomb is good for eliminating threats without effecting your deck too much.

Karakas us a fast way to bounce large creatures that are cheated into play.


Lightning Greaves and Diamond Lion in multiples go together to make a lot of mana. I imagine that Greaves doesn’t have enough synergy in the maindeck tho. Any ideas on how to Haste the Lion in colorless? Ugin’s Nexus conferring extra turns works as pseudo haste but perhaps Lion could be online faster than that.

I have experimented with additional mana sources including Doubling Cube and Jeweled Lotus. Forge Bots has the most effective mana sources available and I find that the 28 mana sources already in the deck seem to be enough considering the low amount of cards that actually need mana. I am however considering adding an artifact mana source to the side board for Karn, the Great Creator to find.


EDIT:
Just noticed a potential line in Mirror of Fate as a Karn tutorable. If you have Mystic Forge already, you can loop Salvage Titan’s to exile mana producing artifacts from the graveyard like Lion’s Eye Diamond’s, then stack an up to 7 card Mirror pile as the deck, then play each of them off the top with the Mystic Forge. Seems like it would be more than enough to Karn into Aetherflux. Karn isn’t an artifact means having another way to exile Karn, perhaps with Mystic Forge, though I think more exile synergies would have to be accounted for in this line. Double Karn gets one to the yard, but Salvage Titan only exiles artifacts. Multiple Mystic Forge is a bit costly but it does provide an additional exile of the top card. I feel like there is an easier way though. Perhaps Tormod’s Crypt in the maindeck? Double Karn, sac one, Crypt your own yard, Karn for Mirror of Fate, stack the deck as an ideal 7, then via Mystic Forge, LED, LED, etc, Karn, find Aetherflux.

This combo would work but it seems you have to get too many things going in order for it to work. I know there are many clever ways to chain combinations to utilize Aetherflux Reservoir, I think my current list is sufficient enough without having to add cards to make a more efficient combo.


EDIT 2:
A potential line I just noticed with maindeck Crypt(s).
Karn in play, play Crypt, LED, Petal, sac both to get to 4, discard Mystic Forge, Crypt your yard to exile Mystic Forge, Karn for the exiled Mystic Forge.

This is a good play. You can still achieve this combo without putting Tormod’s Crypt in the main deck by exiling Mystic Forge with Salvage Titan. However it would work better with Tormod’s Crypt.

[Vacrix]

In regards to sideboard choices I have the following. Gyruda, Doom of Depths is good as a companion, Forge Bots generates a lot of mana and Gyruda, Doom of Depths is available at any time, it also can get one of 12 creatures from the main deck for free or even get an opponent’s Griselbrand. Mycosynth Lattice and Liquimetal Coating are hard and soft locks with Karn, the Great Creator. Aetherflux Reservoir is an alternate win condition and can also be used for just gaining lots of life.
Not sure if you are aware or not but the companion mechanic received a very heavy nerf from wizards via errata. You can look up the errata on the gatherer to confirm.

https://www.hipstersofthecoast.com/2020/06/agent-of-treachery-fires-of-invention-banned-in-standard-and-historic-companion-mechanic-erratad/

“Once per game, any time you could cast a sorcery (during your main phase when the stack is empty), you can pay 3 generic mana to put your companion from your sideboard into your hand. This is a special action, not an activated ability.”


So 3 + 4(B/U)(B/U) is 9 for Gyuda. That it’s effect can miss on the mill suggests it’s really not worth 9 mana.

[Daniel Worobec]

Not sure if you are aware or not but the companion mechanic received a very heavy nerf from wizards via errata. You can look up the errata on the gatherer to confirm.

https://www.hipstersofthecoast.com/2020/06/agent-of-treachery-fires-of-invention-banned-in-standard-and-historic-companion-mechanic-erratad/

“Once per game, any time you could cast a sorcery (during your main phase when the stack is empty), you can pay 3 generic mana to put your companion from your sideboard into your hand. This is a special action, not an activated ability.”


So 3 + 4(B/U)(B/U) is 9 for Gyuda. That it’s effect can miss on the mill suggests it’s really not worth 9 mana.

Thank you for your comment Vacrix, I have been aware of the companion tax since it was released.

Gyruda, Doom of Depths in Forge Bots is there to compliment the deck and not be a key card to play. Think of it as something always available to play if it is the best play to make. A companion is very handy to have and is sometimes worth the heavy cost of mana to cast on occasion and Forge Bots has the mana available to support it, sometimes even on turn one. I think the benefits of Gyruda, Doom of Depths is worth the side board slot for many reasons. It is not there primarily for the mill effect and Forge Bots does have four Mishra’s Bauble and four Mystic Forge to look at the top of your deck. It may be worth the nine mana if a Salvage Titan is on the top of your deck and with Gyruda, Doom of Depths, a total of 12 power for nine mana it may be worth it. Alternatively if you use Mishra’s Bauble on the opponent’s deck and there is something like a Griselbrand there, I think it is an excellent play. Sometimes I even use Gyruda, Doom of Depths to mill a land so Mystic Forge can continue to engine out cards.

[Goaswerfraiejen]

I've given it a few spins, and I think that the current version works more consistently than before. Karn, in particular, is great.

But I'm still struggling to get 4 mana consistently to cast it or Forge, especially on T1 or T2. Am I just not mulling aggressively enough? Because the less explosive the start, the more I start worrying about what the other deck is doing, especially when their removal is online.

[Daniel Worobec]

I've given it a few spins, and I think that the current version works more consistently than before. Karn, in particular, is great.

But I'm still struggling to get 4 mana consistently to cast it or Forge, especially on T1 or T2. Am I just not mulling aggressively enough? Because the less explosive the start, the more I start worrying about what the other deck is doing, especially when their removal is online.

Thank you for your response Goanswerfraiejen.

I agree with you that Forge Bots has more consistent threats with the addition of Karn, the Great Creator. One of the great things about Forge Bots is getting threats out early on turn one and two. Getting to four or more mana on the first couple of turns can be quite challenging, even in vintage where things can get a bit crazy. Yes you could try and mulligan more for that ideal hand and I think Forge Bots has a reasonable amount of fast mana to achieve getting a Mystic Forge or Karn, the Great Creator out on turn one or two; I have used the best mana sources available to achieve this. But it does not work 100% of the time but the amount of times it does happen I think is quite reasonable when compared to other decks. I have always considered adding more lands to Forge Bots but it would decrease the amount of cards played when Mystic Forge is on the battlefield. I would like to encourage people to think that you do not need Mystic Forge or Karn, the Great Creator to win. Forge Bots is designed to have explosive starts even without Mystic Forge or Karn, the Great Creator. There are combinations of Salvage Titans, Frogmites and Memnites you can get in your opening hand. You can sometimes play these three creatures along with a Gyruda, Doom of Depths because of the 28 mana sources. And then there is Urza’s Saga for multiple large creatures, sometimes a single Urza’s Saga can win you the game. Also the four Mishra’s Baubles and four Urza’s Baubles can help you to find a Mystic Forge and/or Karn, the Great Creator later in the game or even more creatures. And it does not end there. Forge Bots is designed that you can easily play Chalice of the Void fast with one, two and/or three charge counters on them with only effecting the four Grim Monoliths in the deck and Forge Bots can work perfectly fine without Grim Monoliths. Sometimes a Chalice of the Void with one counter on it can stop half the spells in an opponent’s deck and playing additional ones with two and three counters on them can stop the opponent even more. You can also think of Chalice of the Void speeding up Forge Bots by slowing the opponent down, either for a fast win with creatures and/or with a Karn lock. I also worry about an opponent controlling the game as the game goes on but it does not happen all the time. Just have confidence in yourself and keep playing your best.

[Daniel Worobec]

Forge Bots' first post has been updated with the latest version 3.0 of Forge Bots.

Cards in Forge Bots V. 3.0:
4x Salvage Titan
4x Frogmite
4x Memnite
4x Mishra’s Bauble
4x Urza’s Bauble
4x Chalice of the Void
4x Karn, the Great Creator
4x Mystic Forge
4x Grim Monolith
4x Lion’s Eye Diamond
4x Mox Opal
4x Lotus Petal
4x Ancient Tomb
4x City of Traitors
4x Urza’s Saga
Side Board:

1x Gyruda, Doom of Depths
1x Mycosynth Lattice
1x Liquimetal Coating
1x Aetherflux Reservoir
4x Defense Grid
2x Tormod’s Crypt
1x Sorcerous Spyglass
1x Pithing Needle
1x Sphere of Annihilation
1x Ratchet Bomb
1x Karakas

[Daniel Worobec]

https://mythicspoiler.com/neo/cards/therealitychip.jpg https://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=460928&type=card

New card for Forge Bots, mostly for the sideboard.

Forge Bots is built around the card Mystic Forge and The Reality Chip can be used as an second Mystic Forge. I would not recommend The Reality Chip for the main deck but it is very good for the sideboard that Karn, the Great Creator can wish for. I know Mycosynth Lattice is a more common target, adding The Reality Chip to the sideboard is like having eight Mystic Forges in the main deck provided you are using four Karn, the Great Creator. Forge Bots usually provides a creature to Reconfigure The Reality Chip too and the costs are reasonable with the amount of mana Forge Bots can produce. If you do not have a creature to Reconfigure then the on the next turn you can possibly animate a creature with Karn, the Great Creator and then Reconfigure The Reality Chip to the animated creature. If you choose to sideboard The Reality Chip into the main deck then you can continue to use Gyruda, Doom of Depths as your companion. There are several other decks that are built around Mystic Forge and Karn, the Great Creator that can also benefit of having The Reality Chip in their sideboard.

[Daniel Worobec]

https://cdn1.mtggoldfish.com/images/h/Containment-Construct-NEO-672.jpg

I was thinking of this card and Forge Bots V. 2.5 July 15, 2021.

I think there is something with Containment Construct, Lion's Eye Diamond, Diamond Lion, Echo of Eons and maybe even Artificer's Intuition.

Here is a very rough example of what I am talking about:

4x Containment Construct
4x Artificer's Intuition
4x Salvage Titan
4x Frogmite
4x Memnite
4x Diamond Lion
4x Mystic Forge
4x Echo of Eons
4x Mishra’s Bauble
4x Chalice of the Void
4x Urza’s Saga
4x Ancient Tomb
4x City of Traitors
4x Lion’s Eye Diamond
4x Mox Opal
4x Lotus Petal

Maybe some Karn, the Great Creator

Side Board:

1x Gyruda, Doom of Depths
(Mycosynth Lattice with Karn, the Great Creator)

[Daniel Worobec]

To update my last post regarding Containment Construct, there has been an update in a combo with Containment Construct, Artificer's Intuition, Lion's Eye Diamond, Elixir of Immortality and Walking Ballista that will deal infinite damage and gain you infinite life. Here is a link to a video explaining the combo:

https://twitter.com/MTGGoldfish/status/1489997830554980356?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

The following is a decklist of Forge Bots that can not only utilize the infinite combo but also works well on it's own.

4x Containment Construct
2x Artificer's Intuition
1x Elixir of Immortality
1x Walking Ballista
4x Salvage Titan
4x Frogmite
4x Memnite
4x Diamond Lion
4x Mystic Forge
4x Echo of Eons
4x Mishra’s Bauble
4x Chalice of the Void
4x Urza’s Saga
4x Ancient Tomb
4x City of Traitors
4x Lion’s Eye Diamond
4x Mox Opal
4x Lotus Petal


To get rid of Chalice of the Void with one charge counter to cast Elixir of Immortality, just sacrifice it to a Salvage Titan.

[FTW]

Artificer's Intuition + Containment Construct + Lion's Eye Diamond is a good combo.

Once you have 4 Artificer's Intuition, you probably don't need Diamond Lion. You just gained 4 tutors for LED when you need it. That should be enough LEDs, without having to worry about summoning sickness. The LED effect is only useful sometimes (Echo, Forge, Construct combo) and not always. Instead of Diamond Lion you could play Karn, the Great Creator.

[Daniel Worobec]

To update my last post regarding Containment Construct, there has been an update in a combo with Containment Construct, Artificer's Intuition, Lion's Eye Diamond, Elixir of Immortality and Walking Ballista that will deal infinite damage and gain you infinite life. Here is a link to a video explaining the combo:

https://twitter.com/MTGGoldfish/status/1489997830554980356?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

The following is a decklist of Forge Bots that can not only utilize the infinite combo but also works well on it's own.

4x Containment Construct
2x Artificer's Intuition
1x Elixir of Immortality
1x Walking Ballista
4x Salvage Titan
4x Frogmite
4x Memnite
4x Diamond Lion
4x Mystic Forge
4x Echo of Eons
4x Mishra’s Bauble
4x Chalice of the Void
4x Urza’s Saga
4x Ancient Tomb
4x City of Traitors
4x Lion’s Eye Diamond
4x Mox Opal
4x Lotus Petal


To get rid of Chalice of the Void with one charge counter to cast Elixir of Immortality, just sacrifice it to a Salvage Titan.

Sorry this list has 64 cards in it, here is what I think would work best. If someone can find room for Karn, the Create Creator then I am all ears.


3x Containment Construct
2x Artificer's Intuition
1x Elixir of Immortality
1x Walking Ballista
4x Salvage Titan
4x Frogmite
4x Memnite
2x Diamond Lion
4x Mystic Forge
4x Echo of Eons
3x Mishra’s Bauble
4x Chalice of the Void
4x Urza’s Saga
4x Ancient Tomb
4x City of Traitors
4x Lion’s Eye Diamond
4x Mox Opal
4x Lotus Petal

[FTW]

See above. What about -2 Diamond Lion +2 Artificer's Intuition?

Diamond Lion's summoning sickness seems like it could slow the deck down. I see why you needed it before to have enough LED effects, but Artificer can turn any artifact into LED (or other things).

[Daniel Worobec]

Well I spent the weekend researching and testing out the Containment Construct combo. I could not make it work with Forge Bot creatures as a back up plan. I did however come up with a reasonable decklist that utilizes the infinite combo while using Karn, the Great Creator:

Main Deck:

4x Containment Construct
4x Artificer's Intuition
1x Elixir of Immortality
1x Walking Ballista
4x Diamond Lion
4x Echo of Eons
4x Mystic Forge
4x Karn, the Great Creator
4x Conjurer's Bauble
2x Chromatic Star
4x Grim Monolith
4x Lion’s Eye Diamond
4x Mox Opal
4x Lotus Petal
4x Ancient Tomb
4x City of Traitors
4x Urza's Saga

Sideboard (incomplete):

Mycosynth Lattice
Bag of Holding
Liquimetal Coating
The Reality Chip
Walking Ballista
Defense Grid
Paradox Engine

In regards to Diamond Lion, it is not too great the turn it comes onto the battlefield however it is great for a follow up turn.

I also believe that there is a home for the Containment Construct infinite combo in Bomberman. Here is a very rough and untested example I created:

4x Containment Construct
4x Artificer's Intuition
1x Elixir of Immortality
1x Walking Ballista
4x Auriok Salvagers
4x Karn, the Great Creator
4x Conjurer's Bauble
4x Chromatic Star
4x Lion's Eye Diamond
4x Lotus Petal
4x Mox Opal
4x Ancient Tomb
4x City of Traitors
4x Urza's Saga
4x Seat of the Synod
4x Ancient Den
2x Tundra

Sideboard:
Mycosynth Lattice, Karn Stuff & blue/White stuff

The list of Forge Bots on the first post can still get the job done with the Aetherflux Reservoir in the sideboard without having a whole deck dedicated to a kill combo.

[Daniel Worobec]

https://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=548567&type=card

Forge Bots version 3.1

Patchwork Automaton I believe has found a home in Forge Bots. With the availability of eight Sol-Lands and other options for being cast on turn one, with the follow-up of fast artifacts the same and next turn can make Patchwork Automaton quite large to attack on turn two and after. Patchwork Automaton also gets larger as the game progresses and when a Mystic Forge hits the battlefield, you are looking at an Emrakul, the Aeons Torn for two mana. Also when cast on turn one, you can also play free Salvage Titans, Frogmites and Memnites along it for a powerful start. When cast early, Patchwork Automaton is protected by the Ward 2 ability to counter any type of removal. I think it may be ideal to only have two Patchwork Automatons in the main deck because you want to keep the amount of mana you have to pay in Forge Bots to a minimum and to prevent having a hand full of them, however I may be wrong and the ideal amount may be larger. I recently placed within the top 8 with this updated version in a 1K tournament.

Here is an updated list of Forge Bots with +2 Patchwork Automaton and -2 Grim Monolith. I also updated the sideboard to what I think is more effective:

Forge Bots version 3.1

4x Salvage Titan
4x Frogmite
4x Memnite
2x Patchwork Automaton
4x Mishra’s Bauble
4x Urza’s Bauble
4x Chalice of the Void
4x Karn, the Great Creator
4x Mystic Forge
2x Grim Monolith
4x Lion’s Eye Diamond
4x Mox Opal
4x Lotus Petal
4x Ancient Tomb
4x City of Traitors
4x Urza’s Saga

Side Board:

1x Gyruda, Doom of Depths
1x Mycosynth Lattice
1x Liquimetal Coating
1x Aetherflux Reservoir
1x The Reality Chip
3x Tormod’s Crypt
2x Ethersworn Canonist
1x Sorcerous Spyglass
1x Pithing Needle
1x Torpor Orb
1x Ratchet Bomb
1x Karakas

With the release of Patchwork Automaton I also believe the following alternate list to be effective, focusing more on creatures without Karn, the Great Creator:

Alternate Forge Bots version:

4x Salvage Titan
4x Frogmite
4x Memnite
4x Patchwork Automaton
4x Nettlecyst
4x Mishra’s Bauble
4x Urza’s Bauble
4x Chalice of the Void
4x Mystic Forge
4x Lion’s Eye Diamond
4x Mox Opal
4x Lotus Petal
4x Ancient Tomb
4x City of Traitors
4x Urza’s Saga

Side Board:

1x Umori, the Collector
(+14 other)

[Daniel Worobec]

The following is for historical purposes, earlier versions of Forge Bots and related posts.
Forge Bots V. 2.5 July 15, 2021

4x Salvage Titan
4x Frogmite
4x Memnite
3x Diamond Lion
4x Mystic Forge
4x Echo of Eons
4x Mishra’s Bauble
2x Urza’s Bauble
4x Chalice of the Void
3x Welding Jar
4x Urza’s Saga
4x Ancient Tomb
4x City of Traitors
4x Lion’s Eye Diamond
4x Mox Opal
4x Lotus Petal

Side Board:

1x Gyruda, Doom of Depths
4x Tormod’s Crypt
4x Engineered Explosives
3x Sorcerous Spyglass
2x Ethersworn Cannonist
2x Karakas

Forge Bots V. 2.0 April 12, 2021:
4x Salvage Titan
4x Lupine Prototype
4x Frogmite
4x Memnite
4x Chimeric Mass
4x Gustha’s Scepter
3x Engineered Explosives
1x Mishra’s Bauble
4x Chalice of the Void
4x Mystic Forge
4x Lion’s Eye Diamond
4x Mox Opal
4x Lotus Petal
4x Ancient Tomb
4x City of Traitors
3x Blast Zone
1x Inventors’ Fair

Side Board:

1x Umori, the Collector
4x Tormod’s Crypt
4x Sorcerous Spyglass
2x Ethersworn Cannonist
2x Karakas
1x Engineered Explosives
1x Phyrexian Revoker

Forge Bots V. 1.5 December 15, 2019

4x Salvage Titan
4x Lupine Prototype
4x Frogmite
4x Memnite
4x Chimeric Mass
4x Mishra’s Bauble
4x Gustha’s Scepter
4x Chalice of the Void
4x Mystic Forge
4x Lion’s Eye Diamond
4x Mox Opal
4x Lotus Petal
4x Ancient Tomb
4x City of Traitors
3x Blast Zone
1x Inventors’ Fair

Side Board:

3x Warping Wail
4x Tormod’s Crypt
3x Engineered Explosives
3x Pithing Needle
2x Karakas

Forge Bots V. 1.0 December 15, 2019:

4x Salvage Titan
4x Lupine Prototype
4x Frogmite
4x Memnite
4x Chimeric Mass
4x Urza’s Bauble
4x Mishra’s Bauble
4x Gustha’s Scepter
4x Mystic Forge
4x Lion’s Eye Diamond
4x Mox Opal
4x Lotus Petal
4x Ancient Tomb
4x City of Traitors
3x Blast Zone
1x Inventors’ Fair

Side Board:

4x Chalice of the Void
4x Tormod’s Crypt
3x Engineered Explosives
3x Pithing Needle
1x Karakas

[Daniel Worobec]

I have updated the first post of Forge Bots to the latest version 4.0.

Here are the new cards and decklist:

https://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=602786&type=card https://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=3263&type=card https://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=583782&type=card https://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=617088&type=card https://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=548579&type=card https://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=489925&type=card https://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&multiverseid=583827

Cards in Forge Bots V. 4.0:

4x Salvage Titan
4x Frogmite
4x Memnite
3x Phyrexian Dreadnought
2x Patchwork Automaton
1x Haywire Mite
3x Karn, the Great Creator
2x Mystic Forge
4x Mishra’s Bauble
2x Urza’s Bauble
3x Engineered Explosives
4x Lion’s Eye Diamond
4x Lotus Petal
4x Mox Opal
4x Ancient Tomb
4x Urza’s Saga
4x The Mycosynth Gardens
2x City of Traitors
1x Boseiju, Who Endures
1x Mount Doom


Side Board:

1x Mycosynth Lattice
1x Phyrexian Dreadnought
1x Torpor Orb
1x The Stone Brain
4x Chalice of the Void
3x Tormod’s Crypt
2x Pithing Needle
2x Ethersworn Canonist

I have also come up with an alternate version of Forge Bots centered around a purist point of view without any significant amount of draw or disruption:

https://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=574721&type=card https://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=159103&type=card https://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=450658&type=card https://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=1016&type=card

Forge Bots alternate:

4x Salvage Titan
4x Frogmite
4x Memnite
3x Phyrexian Dreadnought
2x Patchwork Automaton
4x Shield Sphere
2x Walking Bulwark
2x Halo Hopper
4x Ornithopter
2x Retrofitter Foundry
3x Mystic Forge
4x Lion’s Eye Diamond
4x Lotus Petal
4x Mox Opal
4x Ancient Tomb
4x Urza’s Saga
4x The Mycosynth Gardens
2x City of Traitors

Side Board:

1x Umori, the Collector

[Daniel Worobec]

https://www.mythicspoiler.com/woe/cards/syrgingerthemealender.jpg

Syr Ginger, the Meal Ender makes Forge Bots much more powerful than previous. Syr Ginger, the Meal Ender is much like what Sensei’s Divining Top would be like in a deck built with Mystic Forge in it but only better. With so many free artifacts to sacrifice to trigger Syr Ginger, the Meal Ender’s scry ability and in combination with Mystic Forge, you can basically play the entire deck in one turn…oh and have a creature with 20+ power, double your starting life total and have a near invincible creature if an opponent has a Planeswalker for only two mana.

If you only have a Mystic Forge in your starting hand, usually Mystic Forge can find Syr, Ginger, the Meal Ender and if you only have a Syr Ginger, the Meal Ender, you can usually find Mystic Forge with all the scry triggers and use of Mishra’s Bauble and Urza’s Bauble.

Syr Ginger, the Meal Ender is also good if you don’t have a Mystic Forge. Forge Bots will naturally make him larger and along with other creatures can make an effective force.

Below is an updated: Forge Bots version 4.1

3x Syr Ginger, the Meal Ender
4x Salvage Titan
4x Frogmite
4x Memnite
2x Phyrexian Dreadnought
1x Haywire Mite

3x Mystic Forge
2x Karn, the Great Creator

4x Mishra’s Bauble
4x Urza’s Bauble
2x Engineered Explosives

4x Lion’s Eye Diamond
4x Lotus Petal
4x Mox Opal

4x Urza’s Saga
4x Ancient Tomb
3x The Mycosynth Gardens
2x City of Traitors
1x Boseiju, Who Endures
1x Mount Doom

Sideboard:

1x Mycosynth Lattice
1x Phyrexian Dreadnought
1x Torpor Orb
1x The Stone Brain
4x Chalice of the Void
3x Tormod’s Crypt
2x Pithing Needle
2x Ethersworn Canonist

[FTW]

If you don't have maindeck Dreadnoughts or Haywire Mite (3 slots, and Mite could be SB) then you could run Gyruda, Doom of Depths as a companion for a free body! Everything else is even. Gyruda can cast Salvage Titan or Syr for free, or at least find more fodder for Titan. For alternate beatdown with even costs, Lodestone Golem is 1-sided. Or maybe Patchwork Automaton.



If you don't go the Gyruda route, have you looked at artifacts like Nihil Spellbomb or Chromatic Star? They draw cards when they get sacrificed (even to Salvage Titan) while Baubles only draw if you activate the ability (do not draw with Salvage Titan). They work well with Syr Ginger too.

[FTW]

Thinking about the Gyruda plan EVEN more..

Do U Even Lift Gro?

//Companion: 1
1 Gyruda, Doom of Depths

//Lands: 15
4 Urza's Saga
4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 The Mycosynth Gardens

//Forge: 4
4 Mystic Forge

//Bots: 21
4 Stonecoil Serpent
4 Patchwork Automaton
4 Arcbound Ravager
3 Syr Ginger, the Meal Ender
2 Walking Ballista
4 Salvage Titan

//0s: 20
4 Lotus Petal
4 Mox Opal
4 Mishra's Bauble
4 Urza's Bauble
2 Lion's Eye Diamond
2 Engineered Explosives


Memnite seem weak right now when half the format is Bowmasters. Frogmite may often cost more than 0 without artifact lands, so the X creatures seem better.

Patchwork Automaton grows when you play out all the "free" artifacts or draw through your deck with Forge. It's another grow creature like Syr, and it also has a form of protection.

Ravager can eat those artifacts to grow, also triggering Syr. Ravager can then puts its counters on Syr (bigger hexproof threat), Ballista (ping opponent to death to win without the combat step), or Patchwork (Ward 2). Ravager also sacrifices your creatures to protect them from exiling effects (especially Salvage Titan).

Gyruda is another threat if you run out of gas. It can also cast Salvage Titan, Patchwork Automaton, Syr Ginger, or Arcbound Ravager.

Mycocynth Gardens is not as good without Dreadnought but can still copy Salvage Titan, Automaton, Ravager, Mystic Forge...

Most of the deck can be played for free. X cards can be played for 0 if cycling through your deck with Forge, but the rest of the time they can be mana sinks and threats (better than running do-nothing 0s).


Edit: I played out some sample hands.

T1 City, Automaton. Petal, Opal, Automaton #2. Bauble. LED. --> 6/6 ward 2 & 3/3 ward 2
T2 Draw 2. Ravager, Stonecoil X=1. Attack with 8/8 Ward 2 & 5/5 Ward 2, option to add 3 more via Ravager

T1 City, Petal, Bauble, Opal, Mystic Forge.
From library: Bauble, LED, exile Urborg, keep Stonecoil on top
T2 Draw 3. Bauble, Bauble, Stonecoil X=1, Stonecoil X=1, exile Saga, Salvage Titan (sac Stonecoils & LED)
T3 Draw 3. Petal, Stonecoil X=1, Tomb, Forge #2, Salvage Titan #2

T1 Tomb, Automaton. Petal, Petal, Bauble, Ravager. --> 5/5 Ward 2
T2 Draw 2. Stonecoil X=1, Stonecoil X=1. Salvage Titan (sac Stonecoils & Ravager). Attack with 9/9 Ward 2

T1 Bauble, Bauble, Opal. Saga. Automaton. Bauble. --> 2/2 ward 2
T2 Draw 4. EE @ 0. Syr Ginger. Ballista X=0. Stonecoil X=0. --> 6/6 ward 2 + 5/3 Syr Ginger, attack for 6
T3 Saga gets Petal. Automaton #2. Salvage Titan (sac Petal, Opal, EE), scry 3. Attack with 8/8 Ward 2 & 8/6 Syr Ginger, also have 2/2 Ward 2 + 6/4 Titan.

Mull to 6
T1 Tomb. Automaton. Petal. Opal. Bauble. -> 4/4 Ward 2
T2 Draw 2. Petal. Petal. (flooded). Stonecoil X=6. -> Attack with 7/7 ward 2, also have 6/6 reach trample

Mull to 6
T1 Saga. Stonecoil X=1.
T2 Tomb. EE @ 0. Construct
T3 Construct. Saga->Opal. Petal. Urborg. Ravager. --> 2 7/7 Constructs & Ravager
T4 Forge. Exile land, Opal, Bauble. (another land on top) Attack with 2 9/9 constructs

Deck seems aggressive. Patchwork Automaton feels amazing here. It's pretty much impossible to remove a fat Ward 2 creature on turns 1-2. Even on turn 3, if they spend 3 mana on Plow then they're not interacting with the other threats!

[Daniel Worobec]

FTW I would like to thank you for taking an interest in my deck, I think the deck is finally speaking for itself.

You asked about adding Gyruda, Doom of Depths to the mix and I have experimented with him the day Syr Ginger, the Meal Ender and this deck list since he was spoiled (list below provided).

In this version of Forge Bots is more centered around Syr Ginger, the Meal Ender and Mystic Forge with Karn, the Great Creator added. I compare the deck below to other combo Mystic Forge decks except for the following assumptions:

-You don’t need a large amount of different cards to set off the combo. You can get away with just Mystic Forge and Syr Ginger, the Meal Ender. Also you may just need a Mystic Forge or a Syr Ginger, the Meal Ender in your opening hand because either one will find each other along with Baubles.

-The deck does not need the graveyard to work and does not give your opponent advantages like Echo of Eons does.

-The deck is not a glass cannon. You don’t need to protect it with Defense Grid and you don’t need Mystic Forge to operate the deck. The can work effectively with just the creatures available to it and if Mystic Forge does not work out as well as you expected the turn it was played, it can still work the next turn and you usually get something out of it.

-With Karn, the Great Creator in the deck you can finish them off with an Aetherflux Reservoir, gain multiple turns from a Time Sieve, have The Reality Chip as an alternative Mystic Forge if you do not have one available and of course Mycosynth Lattice for a lock. Since you may play multiple Karn, the Great Creator in the same turn and because in other turns you can activate the same Karn, the Great Creator, you can enable multiple of the situations. For an Aetherflux Reservoir kill, you usually also have an army of creatures available to you as well on the same turn.

-The deck can have a turn one kill with just a single Mystic Forge.

-The deck can be turned into a Chalice of the Void deck with the sideboard and you can still play Defense Grid if you need/want too.

-The deck can work on no mana if needed.

Here is the deck I have experimented with:

4x Syr Ginger, the Meal Ender
4x Salvage Titan
4x Frogmite
4x Memnite
4x Mystic Forge
2x Karn, the Great Creator
4x Mishra’s Bauble
4x Urza’s Bauble
4x Lodestone Bauble
4x Lion’s Eye Diamond
4x Lotus Petal
4x Mox Opal
2x Grim Monolith
4x Urza’s Saga
4x Ancient Tomb
4x City of Traitors

Sideboard:

1x Gyruda, Doom of Depths
1x Mycosynth Lattice
1x The Reality Chip
1x Aetherflux Reservoir
1x Time Sieve
4x Chalice of the Void
4x Defense Grid
1x The Stone Brain
2x Other

[FTW]

Grim Monolith looks helpful with the Sol Land ramp.

Even with that more combo-focused list, I still recommend trying 4 Patchwork Automaton in your deck. The card is extremely powerful and enables fast "fair" wins when you aren't able to assemble Syr Ginger + Mystic Forge, growing even faster than Syr Ginger. It adds an extra layer of resilience & another "bot" threat even more explosive than Salvage Titan. When Forge does go off, it still makes Patchwork grow at an insane rate for free. I made 30/30s and bigger. Ward 2 is relevant text. The bot is much harder to kill than Dreadnought and easier to enable.

The 2 cmc is a bit awkward when going off with Forge, but Syr Ginger can scry extras away easily. Imho lands are worse reveals. Automaton could replace Frogmite?

[Daniel Worobec]

Grim Monolith looks helpful with the Sol Land ramp.

Even with that more combo-focused list, I still recommend trying 4 Patchwork Automaton in your deck. The card is extremely powerful and enables fast "fair" wins when you aren't able to assemble Syr Ginger + Mystic Forge, growing even faster than Syr Ginger. It adds an extra layer of resilience & another "bot" threat even more explosive than Salvage Titan. When Forge does go off, it still makes Patchwork grow at an insane rate for free. I made 30/30s and bigger. Ward 2 is relevant text. The bot is much harder to kill than Dreadnought and easier to enable.

The 2 cmc is a bit awkward when going off with Forge, but Syr Ginger can scry extras away easily. Imho lands are worse reveals. Automaton could replace Frogmite?

Patchwork Automaton if a very good card in Forge Bots, I have left it out because I wanted a design that is less mana for a more efficient Mystic Forge. However I have been working on an alternative strategy that can make Patchwork Automaton quite good with your deck design.

Instead of having Mystic Forge you can have Ugin’s Mastery. Cut out Baubles, Lion’s Eye Diamond, go to one Syr Ginger, the Meal Ender and put in Memnites, Ornithopter plus Retrofitter Foundry (good with Urza’s Saga), Shield Sphere plus Walking Bulwark (also good with Urza’s Saga). You may not need The Mycosynth Gardens and go up to eight sol-lands but if you do go with The Mycosynth Gardens you can still put in Phyrexian Dreadnought since it might get manifested by Ugin’s Mastery. You don’t really need Frogmite in this case and a Haywire Mite may be good for removal. Halo Hopper may also be good if there is room. Unfortunately you can’t play Gyruda, Doom of Depths in this case however he may not be used too much.

[FTW]

That's an interesting direction.

I have found Patchwork Automaton very effective with the full 8 Baubles. They're free redraws, so free triggers that replace themselves. Cards like Ornithopter or Memnite also trigger it, but do not replace themselves, so you'll end up with a smaller Automaton. Cycling artifacts like Baubles work well with Syr Ginger too (and Syr Ginger helps scry past duds into more artifacts), so I found the two creatures synergize well together in the same deck. You get 7-8 interchangeable 2cmc "grow" bodies that all trigger off cycling through "free" artifacts. Both come down turn 1 off Sol Land. So you can play 7-8 Sol Lands and 7-8 2cmc "grow" creatures and 8 Baubles, very consistent. See the test games I posted above. Those were random hands from playtesting, and they weren't even optimal hands (no Forge + Syr Ginger). It was easy to grow them quickly, even when your hand does not contain Mystic Forge.

You are right that Patchwork Automaton slows down Mystic Forge. A build like the one I posted cannot draw the whole deck in 1 turn. However it can still draw through many free cards and get a lot of triggers. It has lower explosive ceiling when you assemble Mystic Forge + Syr Ginger, but imho it has more resilience when you fail to resolve those pieces or face disruption. You could maybe use Forge more efficiently by cutting some non-0cmc slots (Arcbound Ravager -> Memnite or Shield Sphere). Automaton could fit in a Forge build. You'd just have to make it replace some other non-free slot, keeping most of the deck "free".

Ugin's Mastery is another direction. It doesn't work with Baubles though, and imho the Baubles are better than playing Shield Sphere & friends.


Edit: I tested this and found it worked consistently.


//Companion: 1
1 Gyruda, Doom of Depths

//Lands: 15
4 Urza's Saga
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

//Forge: 6
4 Mystic Forge
2 Karn, the Great Creator

//Bots: 16
4 Stonecoil Serpent
4 Patchwork Automaton
4 Syr Ginger
4 Salvage Titan

//0s: 23
4 Lotus Petal
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Mox Opal
4 Mishra's Bauble
4 Urza's Bauble
3 Lodestone Bauble


Riddlesmith might be good in a combo-oriented shell too. It also fits with Gyruda.

To stop SB artifact hate, one option would be to play SB Warping Wail. It counters Meltdown, Seeds of Innocence, Green Sun's Zenith (into Collector Ouphe), Brotherhood's End, Prismatic Ending, Pulverize, etc. It kills Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, Kataki, War's Wage, and Esper Sentinel. It also doubles as combo hate against Show and Tell, Doomsday, Reanimate, etc.

It's unfortunate that you cannot run 4 Force of Will in the SB and use Gyruda to fuel it (Force is odd, so you can't reveal Gyruda in G2 if you board it in).

[Daniel Worobec]

https://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=662159&type=card

With the new card Glaring Fleshraker, Forge Bots now has an alternate win condition that can also generate large amounts of mana and can also attack. With the availability of fast mana to start off with, along with the amount of card advantage in Forge Bots, Glaring Fleshraker can win the game as little as turn one that and Forge Bots can also be as good as other Mystic Forge combo deck in addition to the army of creatures it can create. One colorless, non-targeting damage at a time is harder to deal with than a one activation win condition such as Aetherflux Reservoir though Forge Bots can also win on just the combat damage or a combination of Glaring Fleshraker damage and combat damage.

The amount of mana Glaring Fleshraker can make by turning almost every spell you cast into a 0/1 Lotus Petal can be more than enough to cast your entire deck along with Mystic Forge. The card advantage with Syr Ginger, the Meal Ender with Mystic Forge will not only allow Glaring Fleshraker to deal 20+ damage, it will also produce an army of creatures to attack with (not the Eldrazi Spawn). Playing a Glaring Fleshraker on turn one followed by several zero cost artifacts can quickly get you an abundance of mana as well as many 0/1 blockers as well as some damage to the opponent.

Forge Bots version 5.0

Main Deck:

4x Salvage Titan
4x Frogmite
4x Memnite
2x Syr Ginger, the Meal Ender
2x Glaring Fleshraker
1x Haywire Mite
4x Chalice of the Void
1x Aether Spellbomb
3x Mystic Forge
4x Mishra’s Bauble
4x Urza’s Bauble
4x Lion’s Eye Diamond
4x Lotus Petal
4x Mox Opal
4x Ancient Tomb
4x Urza’s Saga
4x Wasteland
3x City of Traitors

Sideboard:

4x Disruptor Flute
4x Tormod’s Crypt
2x Warping Wail
2x Ethersworn Canonist
1x Pithing Needle
1x The Stone Brain
1x Karakas

[FTW]

Have you considered Frogmyr Enforcer or Lodestone Bauble over Frogmite? Frogmite is quite underwhelming as a creature.

[Daniel Worobec]

Have you considered Frogmyr Enforcer or Lodestone Bauble over Frogmite? Frogmite is quite underwhelming as a creature.

Thank you for your question FTW, they are always welcome.

I have considered Frogmyr Enforcer and I find that because of the lack of red mana sources and getting to the seven needed for the 4/4 is sometimes difficult for Forge Bots, Frogmyr Enforcer I often find is a dead card under most circumstances however powerful under the right circumstances.

My testing history with Lodestone Bauble has been favorable. The current version of Forge Bots is kind of maxed out on zero mana artifacts and needs creatures like Frogmite that is also free in many circumstances.

I know a 2/2 Frogmite is underwhelming however the inclusion of it in Forge Bots is meant to be played with several other creatures at a time as a small, fast army rather than stand alone creature. In my experience playing Forge Bots, Frogmite has been very useful in both explosive starts (such as two Frogs and a Salvage Titan) and for being part of an army of creatures when utilizing Mystic Forge (for example getting 20+ total power in a single turn).

I do admit that if I were to make cuts, Frogmite would be one of my first considerations depending on the circumstance.

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

Did you consider It that heralds the end? It's a 1 drop off your sol lands, and it pumps all of your colorless (including artifact) creatures.

I played a list two weeks ago trying to cash in on Fleshraker/Unsealing, and my take away was that both were very good and poweful.

[Vacrix]

Some ideas I would like to mention, as ports from cEDH

1, Shriekhorn
shoot the top of the deck during Mystic Forge
could be a lantern control piece as well
comparable to Stitcher's Supplier when it also has better than a local target range
blinking or bounce resets it
unfortunately, SDT is banned but I happen to love this synergy in cEDH
bin Salvage Titan, or something else that ought to be in the yard
oops your Brainstorm

B, Cabal Therapy
I feel like this deck could get a lot of mileage out of Therapy
og Spanish Inquisition used this quite effectively
it describes robots as inputs
perhaps in Lantern control build?
potential discard outlet for Fatestitcher

1B, Mind Swords
needs Swamps, but Urborg is widely played in Turbo Depths
casting for 2 is not bad
it trades w Force
synergy w Gustha's Scepter, which only has LED currently
I think this card is dubious at best because it means changing the entire mana base
but it illustrates a point about aggrandizing more synergy to Gustha's Scepter, because its 0 mv and an artifact
Vision Charm is overly lenticular but it can produce the conditions to cast for 0 when it has other applications
legacy is currently all permission since its too fast for removal to be more than narrow

3U, Fatestitcher
untap
Mystic Forge
Grim Monolith
Mox Opal
Gustha's Scepter
Urza's Saga
Ancient Tomb
City of Traitors
Wasteland
bin
Lion's Eye Diamond
Shriekhorn



After looking over the builds, my feeling is that a stax list looks most reasonable.
Its 'there-too' and it doesn't take up much space nor does it interfere much w how the engines function.
Turning on Mox Opal is crucial. I maindeck EE in my cEDH Inalla list, and my guess is because I took an interest in Forgebots. Its relatively difficult to support Mox Opal when you have to run one of each artifact.

How much space ought to be devoted to stax?
Tormod's Crypt already feels like pseudo-Leyline of the Void, widely played in SBs.
EE shoots ETW tokens, but not DD.
The mana costs are spread enough that I would think it a priority to maindeck CotV.

0, Tormod's Crypt
X, Engineered Explosives
XX, Chalice of the Void

SB
2, Defense Grid

maybe
1, Haywire Mite
2, Powder Keg
1W, Ethersworn Cannonist

4, Lodestone Golem


I think Smelting Vat is could be an alternative engine to explore. It looks like affinity creatures as inputs that lead to something like 'enter Mystic Forge'. The activation isn't limited, meaning develop, conserve mana, and wait to activate it in response could lead to, in response stax piece, also when they cannot easily counter the activation w out Stifle. Using Salvage Titan as an input can conserve an input. A second engine matters seems good as well. Gustha's Scepter can bin what's in exile if you sacrifice it is worth noting as there might be a line hidden there w something like Fatestitcher.

Worth noting..

Walking Bulwark + Shield Sphere is dope. Very low to the ground and efficient. I like this direction.

Mount Doom is dope when you can play 4 Mox Opal. Gerrard's Hourglass Pendant is another direction when I think Nevinryal's Disc is too slow, and EE costs too much in pips to be well supported by a mana base.

I want to mention again.. 'what is the most stupidly broken thing we can do w Gustha's Scepter in Forgebots?'

Drafna's Restoration is a neat way to reset your graveyard, sort of like how Belcher has explored using Recross the Paths. It reproduces more than an engine line because it can also put LED, Petal, etc. on top of the deck in order. So if an opponent counters Mystic Forge, you for all intents in purposes, play the exact same line again. More synergy is available w LED since it puts the artifacts on top rather than in hand. If this is preferred, I would think that cantrips like Conjuror's Bauble would also be worth exploring. Interestingly, synergy is also available w the other, alternative engine I mentioned, Smelting Vat, since it puts the artifacts on top of the deck. Conjuror's Bauble can put Drafna's Restoration back in the deck as well, meaning playing it again for a line.

Its admittedly less exciting, but Expedition Map is net -1 if you haven't hit a land drop already. It also finds TMG copy LED. I'm not sure there are any Exploration effects this deck wants to play, but it does sound like it could be a direction. Exploration, play the land on top during Mystic Forge, keep going, hit another Exploration, play the top card again. There might be another, more efficient way to do this, if possible. Summer Bloom could be better than it looks.

Tapping Trinisphere isn't explored often enough I think. Moonsnare Prototype can do this, as can the Improvise Mechanic, Fatestitcher, among others. Forgebots can wreck so many decks w T1 Trinisphere, then turn it off to go off, then just board it out for Defense Grid or something else.

Patchwork Automaton has synergy w Agatha's Soul Cauldron. Perhaps for Auriok Salvagers for Bomberman lines, but also w Fatestitcher, Haywire Mite, Walking Ballista, Walking Bulwark, among many others I'm sure. In partic, Patchwork Automaton has ward when it could also be part of the Salvagers line. Artifact removal is too narrow to play in legacy, meaning if they can't counter either, then their removal could be dead.

Hope this helps w new directions and exploring new pieces. This is one of the only legacy decks I currently care about. Building in cEDH isn't rewarding yet, since mostly everyone is being mislead by content creators, color identity as a crutch, casuals that equate opinion w theory, redundancy over synergy, safety over utility, targeting my shit is a 'crime', politicking like adding rules to the game is fun so show me your hand, on that note reveal isn't look could be solved by a mechanic 'show', among so many others.. Like so many things, does language fail 'you' or did you fail your language? If its MTG.. it couldn't be bad? Yeah...