Curse Stompy! (Meme Deck, or, maybe not...)

[H]

So, this deck is basically a meme deck. Except, it can kind of win, every once in a while.

Here is a "current list:"

4 Ancient Tomb
2 Castle Locthwain
4 Chrome Mox
4 City of Traitors
8 Snow-Covered Swamp
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

4 Dark Ritual
2 Night's Whisper

2 Murderous Rider
2 Plague Engineer

4 Chalice of the Void
4 Trinisphere
2 Helm of Obedience
4 Karn, the Great Creator
4 Leyline of the Void

1 Curse of Death's Hold
4 Curse of Misfortunes
1 Curse of Fool's Wisdom
1 Cruel Reality
1 Overwhelming Splendor

SIDEBOARD
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Vault of Whispers
1 Liquimetal Coating
1 Sorcerous Spyglass
1 Dreamstealer
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Lost Legacy
2 Plague Engineer
2 To the Slaughter
1 Curse of Exhaustion
1 Helm of Obedience
1 Massacre
1 Mycosynth Lattice

You can see Phil @ThabenU go 4-1 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HIPhplHAuMQ). Or, while the replay lasts, Arkan @Legacy_Council go 5-0 (https://www.twitch.tv/videos/578554110).

Mostly, I think that "fair" Dark Ritual strategies are a little better than we'd likely think, that is to say, solidly T2, maybe even T1.5 if the matchups break your way.

Anyway, I think we are likely to see Arkan's result published come the weekend, so this is a little heads up. Note, this is not my list, but comes from someone named reeplecheep on Twitch.

[FTW]

The Mono Rat Stompy list I posted here on Chinese New Year got some decent wins against Xerox decks and combo decks, despite being made for lulz. I'm not surprised to see Curse Stompy get some wins too.

The following core of 40 cards is very powerful, especially against certain metas:


//Lands:
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
10 other lands

//Permanents:
4 Chrome Mox
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Trinisphere
4 Karn, the Great Creator
4 Leyline of the Void


Karn is a huge boost to black stompy strategies and makes the HelmLine combo much more viable.

Supplement that with any form of creature control and win conditions and it will win some games. I did it with 4 Pack Rat + a bunch of silly rats. Planeswalkers + tokens + Contamination lock would work. I guess Curses work too.

I would recommend moving 2 Helms to the SB. Helm is a dead draw without the combo, and Stax decks are already weak to bad topdecks. 4x Karn is enough to find it game 1. Game 2 you can board 1-2 in if Karn isn't reliable enough for some matchups. Something like another Plague Engineer or Murderous Rider just seems more interactive. 90% of the time my extra Helms were just used as Pack Rat fodder - I wished it was even Scathe Zombies so it could pitch to Chrome Mox.

[H]

I agree in general. The shell there has an ability to just "steal games" on it's own, from Chalice cutting off a CMC to Trinisphere just stopping spells if they didn't draw enough lands.

I think the "upside" here is that Dark Ritual can sometimes accelerate one of those things out, which makes it more likely to actually lock the game. Of course, the inherent tension between Rituals and Chalice/Trini will cost you come games too. Really, as you point out, once you have an effective lock piece in play, you can probably win the game with anything.

The Curses do have the added "bonus" of being immune to Decay, or any creature removal at all, and most decks have few answers to a five-CMC Enchantment. So, in some cases, Ritualing that out, just wins. Of course, they are also super clunky and you will loose to Delver decks when they just do the Turn-1-Delver-Wasteland-I-Drew-Two-Forces-And-A-Daze thing, but that is just life in Legacy.

[FTW]

I agree in general. The shell there has an ability to just "steal games" on it's own, from Chalice cutting off a CMC to Trinisphere just stopping spells if they didn't draw enough lands.

It's the combination of the resistors plus a lot of decks depending on graveyard resources. Maindeck Leyline steals games: Reanimator, Dredge, Hogaak, Lands, Breach (before ban), Emry, Salvagers, ANT, Zombardment. It also shuts down value engines in other decks: Dreadhorde Arcanist, Gurmag Angler, Snapcaster, Reclaimer/Knight beatdown, Ramunap Wastelock, KComm, Accumulated Knowledge, Punishing Fire, Echo of Eons, etc. Most decks don't have a way to answer Leyline in game 1.

Karn is also a very strong card and can win the game out of nowhere with Mycosynth Lattice or Helm of Obedience. The static ability shuts off mana rocks, which impedes their ability to fight through Trinisphere. It can also fetch singleton tools like Ensnaring Bridge, Sorcerous Spyglass or Liquimetal Coating to bail you out of bad spots.

Even Urborg has a neat ability to help fix for double black costs and stop Ancient Tomb damage, fixing 2 weaknesses of Stompy manabases.

So I wouldn't just say Chalice and 3sphere, but the combination of all those cards together. Adding additional card advantage, creature removal and win conditions rounds out the deck.

In the OP list I'm not so sure about that Night's Whisper. Something like Phyrexian Arena, Liliana of the Veil or even Phyrexian Rager seems better, especially with the Dark Rituals & 3balls.

[kinda]

I've prized a number of times of times locally with md rip/helm or leyline/helm decks. In mono black I think it's the best oko proof way to win (as long as you cast helm with 1 free). The curses might be the second best option. The core protection is obviously very good with chalice/3sphere/2019mtg.

[H]

So I wouldn't just say Chalice and 3sphere, but the combination of all those cards together. Adding additional card advantage, creature removal and win conditions rounds out the deck.

In the OP list I'm not so sure about that Night's Whisper. Something like Phyrexian Arena, Liliana of the Veil or even Phyrexian Rager seems better, especially with the Dark Rituals & 3balls.

Yeah, I didn't mean that to be an exhaustive list, but just a couple relatively "common" examples. Of course Leyline and Karn can also just seal a game here or there in certain matchups.

Phyrexian Arena is interesting though, as is Liliana, since the deck can have trouble versus a quick Delver. One "neat" thing about Liliana of the Veil is that she can help empty your hand as well, which is good for the Castle and for Bridge (although if you have Bridge, you are likely going to win in any case, but it is possible you draw Curses you can't cast, or something like that).

[Reeplcheep]

Hey Everyone,

Finally made a MTGsource account. Free to take any questions about the list. 5-0'd a league and went 3-0 into 4-5 in the qualifier so I think the deck has real legs as alternative to moon stompy when blood moon is bad and leyline of the void is good (ie now)

[H]

Hey Everyone,

Finally made a MTGsource account. Free to take any questions about the list. 5-0'd a league and went 3-0 into 4-5 in the qualifier so I think the deck has real legs as alternative to moon stompy when blood moon is bad and leyline of the void is good (ie now)

Neat, you might want to add some insights you've found on the matchups you've faced. What gives you trouble, which can give people an idea of what cards might help.

[Reeplcheep]

Neat, you might want to add some insights you've found on the matchups you've faced. What gives you trouble, which can give people an idea of what cards might help.

Would the best way be to write a mini-primer?

[H]

Would the best way be to write a mini-primer?

Sure, that would work. Or, just a post about your tournament experiences. If you go the Primer route, I will edit it into the first post, crediting you for it of course.

[Reeplcheep]

Sure, that would work. Or, just a post about your tournament experiences. If you go the Primer route, I will edit it into the first post, crediting you for it of course.

Ok first league went 5-0 vs Reanimator, infect, maverick, RUG Delver, and 5c Snow. Next 2 went 50-50, faced mostly aggro.

Super qualifier went 3-0 vs 2 snoko & Bryant Cook on TES. Then faced a bunch of aggro and ended up 4-5. As a medium elo player a good deal of my losses were due to punts/poor play, but still felt good to go 50% vs some of the best in the world on my brew.

I wanted to make a stompy deck that can beat oko & combo and feel I succeeded. As mentioned above, I think I was too greedy to beat aggro and need to make slight changes.

nights whisper is because we need card draw (are land count is a bit low for our curve) and every time I played an early game 1BB card it was a disaster. Treacherous blessing and bob are alternatives but those will definitely kill you. Rager is an idea but I think the deck prefers a card in hand over a chump blocker.

Best Matchups are TES, Show & tell, dredge & D&T(post-side)

Worst matchups are depths by far, and then eldrazi.

[kinda]

Ok first league went 5-0 vs Reanimator, infect, maverick, RUG Delver, and 5c Snow. Next 2 went 50-50, faced mostly aggro.

Super qualifier went 3-0 vs 2 snoko & Bryant Cook on TES. Then faced a bunch of aggro and ended up 4-5. As a medium elo player a good deal of my losses were due to punts/poor play, but still felt good to go 50% vs some of the best in the world on my brew.

I wanted to make a stompy deck that can beat oko & combo and feel I succeeded. As mentioned above, I think I was too greedy to beat aggro and need to make slight changes.

nights whisper is because we need card draw (are land count is a bit low for our curve) and every time I played an early game 1BB card it was a disaster. Treacherous blessing and bob are alternatives but those will definitely kill you. Rager is an idea but I think the deck prefers a card in hand over a chump blocker.

Best Matchups are TES, Show & tell, dredge & D&T(post-side)

Worst matchups are depths by far, and then eldrazi.

I think you could shave three cards to put in md bridges to help vs depths/eldrazi/delver. I'd cut the two whispers plus one 3sphere I think.

[Reeplcheep]

I think you could shave three cards to put in md bridges to help vs depths/eldrazi/delver. I'd cut the two whispers plus one 3sphere I think.

Because we have additional colourless wincons (helm) I have to be quite cogniscent of black count for mox. In my experience the deck's curve is way too high to quickly dump cards for bridge. Obviously still good enough against lage and eldrazi, but the rest of the creature decks can easily sneak under.

I do agree that whisper is too greedy to consistently beat aggro. Also fools wisdom was added to make sure you always have 3 curses to search for if one gets exiled but its by far the worse. Wondering if its worth not playing and just accept my beats if I draw 2 curses. Considering -1 fools wisdom -2 whisper -1 rider + 1 swamp +2 brutality +1 plague engineer.

Brutality also helps with dead cards problem and makes me faster to play to the board, thoughts?

[kinda]

Because we have additional colourless wincons (helm) I have to be quite cogniscent of black count for mox. In my experience the deck's curve is way too high to quickly dump cards for bridge. Obviously still good enough against lage and eldrazi, but the rest of the creature decks can easily sneak under.

I do agree that whisper is too greedy to consistently beat aggro. Also fools wisdom was added to make sure you always have 3 curses to search for if one gets exiled but its by far the worse. Wondering if its worth not playing and just accept my beats if I draw 2 curses. Considering -1 fools wisdom -2 whisper -1 rider + 1 swamp +2 brutality +1 plague engineer.

Brutality also helps with dead cards problem and makes me faster to play to the board, thoughts?

I think your changes would improve the deck, but I don't think they help much vs. your bad matchups. Co bru would help turn on bridge. Might be best just to punt depths though if it is good vs. most other decks.

[Reeplcheep]

I think your changes would improve the deck, but I don't think they help much vs. your bad matchups. Co bru would help turn on bridge. Might be best just to punt depths though if it is good vs. most other decks.

Eldrazi is actually even post board. You just have 8 cards dead g1, and you aren't favoured post board like you are vs d&T or goblins. This is due to plague engineer not being as much of beating so its negative overall. You are correct that I should probably not concentrate too many slots on it.

One thing I have been doing that is perhaps is incorrect is leaving bridge in the board. Perhaps I should board it in because if I untap with karn I probably win. Thoughts?

[FTW]

If you're struggling against aggro, why not cut some of the maindeck durdle (Night's Whisper, extra Helms) for more creatures to interact early.

Black stompy has access to some great value creatures:

Plague Engineer
Plaguecrafter
Ophiomancer
Wasteland Strangler
Dusk Urchins
Pestilent Spirit
Virtus the Veiled

Any of the deathtouch + value creatures should help protect your life.

Wasteland Stranger has cool synergy with Leyline of the Void.

Dusk Urchins trades with an X/3 or X/2 and draws cards.

Virtus is an overcosted deathtoucher, but it has the ability to end games very quickly unblocked, forcing blocks.

Plaguecrafter kills Oko if they don't animate an Elk immediately vs an empty board (which they may not always do).

[Reeplcheep]

All those cards look very good, but they don't seem to provide enough value to drit into, especially in a oko format. Dusk urchin looks very interesting, hadn't seen that card before. worried it might just become a 2/2 or 1/1 elk though before dying.

Plaguecrafter seems just worse than to the slaughter, to the slaughter can actually kill marit lage and occasionally 2 for 1s. Plague engineer is great and you are probably right I should run more main.

Helms are very good in combination with dark ritual, is frequently your only out at the end of the game, and provides a lot of t2 or t1 kills. This helps your fair non-blue matchups a ton (lands, 12post, d&T)

Your overall sentiment of cutting durdle for interaction is correct however. Can you comment on the list I 5-0'd with yesterday? Cut whisper & fools wisdom for lands, collective brutality and more mainboard engineers.

https://twitter.com/reeplcheep/status/1246986094060670977

Oko is a pretty large problem for this deck and none of those cards answer him as cleanly as murderous rider. The only problem with rider is BB makes him effectively 4 mana, but I'm not sure how much of a problem that is.

[kinda]

All those cards look very good, but they don't seem to provide enough value to drit into, especially in a oko format. Dusk urchin looks very interesting, hadn't seen that card before. worried it might just become a 2/2 or 1/1 elk though before dying.

Plaguecrafter seems just worse than to the slaughter, to the slaughter can actually kill marit lage and occasionally 2 for 1s. Plague engineer is great and you are probably right I should run more main.

Helms are very good in combination with dark ritual, is frequently your only out at the end of the game, and provides a lot of t2 or t1 kills. This helps your fair non-blue matchups a ton (lands, 12post, d&T)

Your overall sentiment of cutting durdle for interaction is correct however. Can you comment on the list I 5-0'd with yesterday? Cut whisper & fools wisdom for lands, collective brutality and more mainboard engineers.

https://twitter.com/reeplcheep/status/1246986094060670977

Oko is a pretty large problem for this deck and none of those cards answer him as cleanly as murderous rider. The only problem with rider is BB makes him effectively 4 mana, but I'm not sure how much of a problem that is.

The rider bb is tough...sorcerous spyglass might be one option there? Spyglass would be better vs. every oko deck, every lands deck, and sneak attack. Both would be good vs. vial decks. Rider is better vs. eldazi and ur delver, but spy still stops wasteland. Both r bad vs led decks (edit).

[Reeplcheep]

The rider bb is tough...sorcerous spyglass might be one option there? Spyglass would be better vs. every oko deck, every lands deck, every led deck, and sneak attack. Both would be good vs. vial decks. Rider is better vs. eldazi and ur delver, but spy still stops wasteland.

I do bring in spyglass in from the sideboard in those matchups. The life link on rider is very nice. Spyglass main is a tough ask just because I am very close to the minimum black cards for chrome mox to be excellent (similar to blue count for fow, 20)

Also spyglass doesn't do anything vs ant, and vs tes it only hits wishclaw. LED is a mana ability

[Reeplcheep]

Tuned the list. List is much less greedy and is a bit lower to the ground, improving the aggro matchup quite a bit. Sideboard maps out very cleanly. Chains is also nice as 5th chalice. Because of chains swapped castle for ifnir: untapped land as mentioned earlier plus uncounterable, colourless delver/arcanist/thalia killing is nice.

Went 3-2 in the prelim, only losing 2 close game 3s to show & tell.

9 Snow-Covered Swamp
2 Helm of Obedience
4 Trinisphere
4 Karn, the Great Creator
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Chalice of the Void
1 Curse of Death's Hold
4 Ancient Tomb
1 Cruel Reality
2 Ifnir Deadlands
1 Overwhelming Splendor
4 Curse of Misfortunes
4 City of Traitors
4 Dark Ritual
4 Leyline of the Void
4 Chrome Mox
1 Chains of Mephistopheles
3 Plague Engineer
2 Murderous Rider

1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Mycosynth Lattice
1 Liquimetal Coating
1 Tormod's Crypt
2 To the Slaughter
1 Curse of Exhaustion
1 Plague Engineer
1 Sorcerous Spyglass
1 Helm of Obedience
2 Collective Brutality
1 Vault of Whispers
2 Slaughter Pact

[FTW]

Deck looks a lot better with the extra Plague Engineer and the Chains and Ifnir.

If you're losing to Show and Tell, what about some Plaguecrafter in the SB. The only advantage over To The Slaughter is it comes down for free off SnT and won't be countered, but maybe that's not enough.

[Reeplcheep]

Deck looks a lot better with the extra Plague Engineer and the Chains and Ifnir.

If you're losing to Show and Tell, what about some Plaguecrafter in the SB. The only advantage over To The Slaughter is it comes down for free off SnT and won't be countered, but maybe that's not enough.

Plague crafter much worse at answering marit lage than to the slaughter. The deck is also reasonably good at enabling delirium if the opponent is interacting with you. Show & tell actually isn't a bad matchup, since I also beat one 2-0 in the same prelim. There was just lots of it.

Primarily this decks loses to Eldrazi, depths, and oko + >2 natural force of wills, delver OTD + multiple wastelands. For that reason I am trying a spyglass main.

If you want to see the updated list in action, donated the list to legacy_council and he almost 5-0'd with it again (losing an extremely close game 3 vs maverick with all the hate)

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/590475777

[Reeplcheep]

5-0'd for the third time with this deck, and by no means am I a pro pilot. Snoko killing delver/depths and encouraging combo is really nice for this deck's spot in the meta.

https://twitter.com/reeplcheep/status/1250160956304281602 for matchups, list and a spicy screen shot.

Any comments?

[alphastryk]

5-0'd for the third time with this deck, and by no means am I a pro pilot. Snoko killing delver/depths and encouraging combo is really nice for this deck's spot in the meta.

https://twitter.com/reeplcheep/status/1250160956304281602 for matchups, list and a spicy screen shot.

Any comments?

I love that this deck is still doing well, curious how well Read the Bones is doing compared to the original Night's Whisper. I guess in this deck the casting cost is pretty much the same most of the time.

[Reeplcheep]

I love that this deck is still doing well, curious how well Read the Bones is doing compared to the original Night's Whisper. I guess in this deck the casting cost is pretty much the same most of the time.

The thought is you have lots of dead cards so the scry 2 is very important. Nights whisper is better in case you have mox and not sol land t1 but often you are playing chalice in that situation. I really like treacherous blessing in that slot vs combo but the long games vs control it will just kill you. That slot is definitely what I am least sure about.

[Reeplcheep]

Have done lots of work on the deck, due to companions being op had to do a total redesign to accommodate yorion. At least suppression field is really hot rn so adding white doesn't hurt that much.

Will post once I have more results.

[Reeplcheep]

After many 4-1s finally got the 5-0 with yorion curses. Cast out/sevinnes/prism/silent clearing are there as smoothing that doesn't care about chalice. Suppresion field is the 9-12 copies of t1 hate piece and is very strong right now. Caverns are extra sol lands and petals are extra fast mana. The rest of the deck is just good etbs, and animate dead is a tutorable way to get back yorion if fow'd. Animate dead + yorion is also a worldgorger dragon like loop which doubles all your etbs every turn.

https://twitter.com/reeplcheep/status/1260228501476528128/photo/1

https://twitter.com/reeplcheep/status/1260228501476528128/photo/2

https://twitter.com/reeplcheep/status/1260228501476528128/photo/3

https://twitter.com/reeplcheep/status/1260228501476528128/photo/4

Edit: ok images aren't working list here:


1 Cruel Reality
4 Trinisphere
2 Gemstone Caverns
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Scrubland
1 Animate Dead
1 Overwhelming Splendor
4 City of Traitors
4 Dark Ritual
4 Chrome Mox
2 Lotus Petal
3 Karakas
4 Curse of Misfortunes
4 Suppression Field
3 Snow-Covered Swamp
4 Concealed Courtyard
4 Oath of Kaya
1 Curse of Death's Hold
4 Silent Clearing
4 Trial of Ambition
4 Heliod's Pilgrim
2 Sevinne's Reclamation
3 Prophetic Prism
4 Cast Out
1 Hall of Heliod's Generosity

1 Yorion, Sky Nomad
1 Curse of Exhaustion
3 Sudden Death
3 Davriel, Rogue Shadowmage
2 Mindbreak Trap
2 Stony Silence
1 Wheel of Sun and Moon
2 Plague Engineer

[FTW]

Yorion with your removal suite is great tech. Looks like you found a way to handle creatures!

Sudden Death also looks like great tech to beat Lurrus (no Karakas or counters) and Zirda (can't combo off in response with extra mana). With both banned now, would you still keep Sudden Death or change it to something else?

Your deck seems low in card draw.

[Reeplcheep]

Your deck seems low in card draw.

I agree for an 80 card deck no card draw is rough. Pivoted to UB over WB for the post lurrus pre nerf meta. Losing 3ball is rough but estrids & force of will are great. Omen of the sea is great consistency engine for a non loam chalice deck.

Decklist:

4 Baleful Strix
1 Curse of Death's Hold
2 Gemstone Caverns
1 Prophetic Prism
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Snow-Covered Island
4 Estrid's Invocation
4 City of Traitors
4 Lotus Petal
4 Chrome Mox
4 Omen of the Sea
4 Polluted Delta
4 Force of Will
4 Snow-Covered Swamp
3 Underground Sea
4 Darkwater Catacombs
1 Prophetic Prism
4 Disinformation Campaign
1 Cruel Reality
4 Curse of Misfortunes
1 Overwhelming Splendor
2 Elspeth's Nightmare
4 Trial of Ambition
2 Force of Negation
2 Medomai's Prophecy

1 Curse of Exhaustion
1 Yorion, Sky Nomad
4 Grafdigger's Cage
4 Plague Engineer
2 Mystical Dispute
2 Drown in the Loch
1 Unmoored Ego


Went 6-3 with this in the lotus box tourney yesterday, for 26th out of 209. MU were RUG Delver 2-1, RUG Delver 1-2, Keruga RG Eldrazi 2-0, Jegantha elves 2-1, Hogaak 1-2, Gryuda 0-2, RG lands 2-1, Gyruda 2-1, Food chain 2-1.

Most of my losses were to keeping 1 or 2 landers and no mana sources in top 5-7 cards, which is just bad beats. Remaining loses were just the issues of 80 card decks finding their hate vs 1 dimension decks like gyruda/hogaak.

[Reeplcheep]

Since the yorion nerf tried to make 60 card estrid's invocation + curses work but the manabase was to inconsistent. Pretty consistently negative winrate. Additionally the estrid's invocation engine was really great when it worked but trying to outgrind uro/oko seems like a fools errand in this deck considering how much fast mana/card disadvantage it has.

Switched back to mono-black which is a much more focused t1 lock piece t2/t3 win the game card build. Winrate shot back up to ~65% and i got a 5-0 within 3 leagues. Eliminate is an excellent addition to the deck. Against big mana non-blue decks it can look bad (can't answer lage/chandra/karn/tks) but having an efficient answer in stompy to oko is unprecented. Moon stompy can run pyroblast post-board but then they have to cut chalice.


8 Snow-Covered Swamp
4 Trinisphere
4 Karn, the Great Creator
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Chalice of the Void
1 Curse of Death's Hold
4 Ancient Tomb
1 Cruel Reality
4 Leyline of the Void
1 Overwhelming Splendor
4 Curse of Misfortunes
4 City of Traitors
4 Dark Ritual
2 Helm of Obedience
4 Chrome Mox
2 Eliminate
1 Curse of Fool's Wisdom
3 Castle Locthwain
2 Murderous Rider

1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Mycosynth Lattice
1 Liquimetal Coating
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Curse of Exhaustion
1 Sorcerous Spyglass
1 Helm of Obedience
1 Vault of Whispers
4 Plague Engineer
1 Necromentia
2 Eliminate

[Michael Keller]

Main-deck Leyline and no love for Ill-Gotten Gains? :)

That's one of my all-time favorite combos!

[FTW]

Main-deck Leyline and no love for Ill-Gotten Gains? :)

That's one of my all-time favorite combos!

Win-more? If you have Leyline, you can already win the game with Karn or Helm. Meanwhile IGG seems bad without Leyline.

@OP: I saw an interesting NicFit list using Academy Rector + Cabal Therapy with the Curse package. But Stompy is probably better positioned in this meta than Nic Fit.

[Reeplcheep]

Yes i have seen the curse fit builds but prefer stompy as you have way more game against combo. Thiago on twitter seems to be the main guy.

I tried out IGG for black count (unlike helm can be pitched to chrome mox, which is very important) but as FTW said its so bad as a fair card and as a combo it doesn't win compared to helm. Unlike DETH we don't have LEDs or Infernal tutor to make it a fair win card.

Any other comments FTW? I mostly lose to delver and was wondering best way to deal with it. Is 4 grid in the board reasonable? This deck destroys fair non-blue and most combo except depths.

[JackaBo]

If you lose to delver you need two thing; reliable mana to beat soft permission and removal to buy yourself time. You seem to have #1 so just run more riderd, eliminate and deluge/dow in main and board.

[Reeplcheep]

If you lose to delver you need two thing; reliable mana to beat soft permission and removal to buy yourself time. You seem to have #1 so just run more riderd, eliminate and deluge/dow in main and board.

Don't have enough snow permanents to run dow. Deluge is good but was wondering if it was too iffy in a tomb deck. Riders are often too slow or you don't have BB, you kill their oko and they just play another one and hit you for 3. Probably more eliminates and snuff outs/fatal push might be good.

[FTW]

You already have 2 Rider + 2 Eliminate main and 2 Eliminate SB. Seems good for removal.

Grid does protect your big plays, but it costs a lot of SB space.

Do you need 4x Plague Engineer? What are the big tribal decks you worry about? If you cut down that could make room for 1-2 Deluge.

Maybe also -1 Castle +1 Swamp to have more stable early mana. Stumbling on early mana will make Delver harder.

[Reeplcheep]

You already have 2 Rider + 2 Eliminate main and 2 Eliminate SB. Seems good for removal.

Grid does protect your big plays, but it costs a lot of SB space.

Do you need 4x Plague Engineer? What are the big tribal decks you worry about? If you cut down that could make room for 1-2 Deluge.

Maybe also -1 Castle +1 Swamp to have more stable early mana. Stumbling on early mana will make Delver harder.

Went down to 2 castles, feels better thanks.

4 Plague engineer is for sideboard mapping reasons; you only have lots of cuts vs decks that don't care about 3ball & chalice, and those decks usually die to plague engineer. I don't think I have 6 cards to cut vs blue decks. Vs delver my only bad cards main are the karns, one of which i replace with the sideboard helm so I should really only have 3 things to bring in vs delver.

Comparatively, for moon stompy/loam/goblins i have at least 8-9 bad md cards i would like to cut (3balls/grids/chalice).

Perhaps that is as wrong approach but I think it makes more sense to tune md for blue decks rather than side (since you have few things to cut). Considering grids over removal/4th 3ball main for that reason.

[Reeplcheep]

If people are interested in seeing how it plays i just beat jarvis_yu with it on stream. (He was on humans)

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/686647778?t=2h53m39s

[FTW]

4 Plague engineer is for sideboard mapping reasons; you only have lots of cuts vs decks that don't care about 3ball & chalice, and those decks usually die to plague engineer.

Makes sense. Just wondering if 2 Plague + 2 Deluge or 3 Plague + 1 Deluge would answer a wider range of decks than 4 Plague? Or is Plague Engineer better for those matches to have a body?


Perhaps that is as wrong approach but I think it makes more sense to tune md for blue decks rather than side (since you have few things to cut). Considering grids over removal/4th 3ball main for that reason.

I think cutting 3ball for Grid seems wrong, since 3ball just murders any tempo deck even more than Grid.

Cutting removal for Grid could work if you want to play towards protecting a big threat (Karn, Helm, Curse) instead of disrupting their threats. The only drawback is Oko can break all your resistors, and you need removal for Oko.

How good is the Curse of Fool's Wisdom main?

Have you ever tried Torment of Scarabs? I can't tell if that card is too slow to be impactful vs if killing noncreatures and being hardcastable are worth it.

[Reeplcheep]

Makes sense. Just wondering if 2 Plague + 2 Deluge or 3 Plague + 1 Deluge would answer a wider range of decks than 4 Plague? Or is Plague Engineer better for those matches to have a body?



I think cutting 3ball for Grid seems wrong, since 3ball just murders any tempo deck even more than Grid.

Cutting removal for Grid could work if you want to play towards protecting a big threat (Karn, Helm, Curse) instead of disrupting their threats. The only drawback is Oko can break all your resistors, and you need removal for Oko.

How good is the Curse of Fool's Wisdom main?

Have you ever tried Torment of Scarabs? I can't tell if that card is too slow to be impactful vs if killing noncreatures and being hardcastable are worth it.

Plague Engineer: Vs D&T, Goblins and Elves being a permanent, creature effect matters a ton more than a wipe they can rebuild from. Additionally i assume they will cut removal game 1 so engineer gets stronger. Most decks with creatures bigger than 1/1s are probably those where chalice is not worth cutting imo, except for maverick & eldrazi. Could definitely cut plague for 1 deluge to bring in vs delver.

Grid: Sometimes i lose where they go t1 delver, and if i t1 2ball OTD it hurts because they can literally just counter every spell i play after that if i have to tap tomb to cast through the ball. Grid plays better with dark ritual so thats why i was considering a 2/3 split. Like tomb grid, t2 swamp rit curse is considerably stronger than t1 swamp drit 3ball, t2 swamp pass, t3 tomb curse. But allowing them to still cantrip is obviously bad too. Could go to a 1 grid /4 ball split. I cut balls since i have found 10 or more artifact lock pieces (chalice/3ball/grid) is too many since you have a lot of hands with lands and 3 lock pieces that doesn't do much of anything unless you topdeck a threat or answer

Fools Wisdom is A. MTGO is horribly bugged so cruel reality does not do damage for the last 3 weeks and B. Otherwise you are dead in the water to klothys and C. Having a curse that combo sort of cares about main but not as embarassing as exhaustion is nice. If A. was fixed I may cut it, not sure.

If torment was worded like cruel reality i would consider it, but I have almost no lifetotal pressure so it will likely not do anything till t7 when they are at 3.

[Reeplcheep]

Played in today's challenge. Got extremely lucky with MUs in the swiss to dodge fair blue, only unfair decks & fair non-blue so I placed 5th out of 63. In quarterfinals I faced depths, which as you can see above I decided in deckbuilding was a mu to just hope to dodge. Lost 1-2. Very happy with results, hopefully this will make people consider this a real stompy alternative to titan or moon stompy in unfair metas.

Could post a more detailed report if their is interest

[FTW]

Great results!

Don't know what you could do about Depths other than maybe To the Slaughter SB?

[Memories of the Time]

Played in today's challenge. Got extremely lucky with MUs in the swiss to dodge fair blue, only unfair decks & fair non-blue so I placed 5th out of 63. In quarterfinals I faced depths, which as you can see above I decided in deckbuilding was a mu to just hope to dodge. Lost 1-2. Very happy with results, hopefully this will make people consider this a real stompy alternative to titan or moon stompy in unfair metas.

Could post a more detailed report if their is interest

Great results, i'm interested!
Is there a discord for this deck?

[aedemiel]

Could post a more detailed report if their is interest

Please do!

[Reeplcheep]

Please do!

Tournament report for 8th in the 07/25/2020 MTGO Legacy Challenge.
This list is not that different from prior mono-b lists; except M21 gave us eliminate which is an perfect addition for this deck. Having a card that answers delver, teeg, goyf, kotr, 3feri, & oko cleanly is huge for a stompy deck, without having to cut chalices for pyroblasts like moon stompy. Liked it so much (and rug being everywhere) meant I went up to 4. That was not enough in some leagues so I added on 2 murderous riders. Goal for this tournament was to top 32 so that I could garner more interest in the deck and make people see it as a legitimate alternative to titan/urza/moon stompy for certain metas.

R1: ttetera on burn
G1 OTD. They t1 swiftspear, my t1 chalice is essentially gg. Eventually I draw rider to clean up the swiftspear and shut the door with lifelink. W on T6
G2. Don’t remember much, I think they just had a super fast hand with an answer to chalice. L on T5
G3. Had t2 curse of fools wisdom with any mana source, but wiffed and had to t2 curse of misfortunes. Locking out their creatures was not good enough, should have mulled to t1 chalice/3ball (which this deck does very well). L on t4

R2: Mikebrav on yorion D&T
G1: OTD had a fast karn but couldn’t control the board. A few turns into the game I had opportunity to hard cast cruel reality, but instead took the more conservative bridge + murderous rider creature side. They manage to get enough mana denial so I was never able to cast my curses without drawing lands, and only drew more curses. L t10
G2. They have no answer to t2 curse of misfortunes OTP. Playing sol lands and dark ritual in the same deck is an insane amount of fast mana that makes the 5 mana cost less unplayable than it looks. W t4

G3. t2 karn -> helm t3 helm kill gg W t3
R3: ark4n on dredge. https://www.twitch.tv/videos/690190040?t=3h48m27s
G1 OTD: I am a subscriber to his twitch, so I know from watching earlier he is on dredge. Mull to leyline. W T0
G2 keep a 6 w/leyline. He removes it on my t1 and then just casts the blue looting spell but does not crack his LED to go all in. then he concede to t2 karn -> crypt. W T2

R4: Kanican on Urza Echo (with stone coil serpent?)
G1: OTP Had a t2 helm kill with a black source, never drew it but when I drew sol land just played karn which they concede to. W t3
G2: Answer their t1 urza with t1 rit -> rider, but the token & follow up (a stonecoil serpent then karn) kill me. L t4
G3: T1 karn gg W T2

R5: flowrallia on hogaak.
G1 OTD. Between his t1 supplier, several hard cast ghasts, and fetches/casting his 1 drops in hands he is able to feed gy enough to cast hogaak twice. I answer with both riders but that leaves me far enough behind for him to kill he with a topdeck vengevine. L t8
G2: Leyline into cruel reality is essentially gg, but because of the bug don’t kill him actually until t11 with helm. W t11
G3. Leyline into 3 ball into curse of misfortunes is essentially gg (he was stuck on 2 lands for ever and splendor stops fetches), but fool’s wisdom is exiled and cruel reality is bugged so he doesn’t actually concede until I lattice him on turn 17. W T17.

R6: basuta on dredge. (was his last played deck on mtggoldfish)
G1 OTP: t0 leyline gg. He drags it out to see what I am doing before he has to discard to hand size. W T4.
G2. T0 leyline, he cabal’s for chalice and wiffs, I t1 helm kill him (sol land + chome mox + drit + black card + helm)
5-1 gets me 5th out of 63 in the swiss.

Quarters Terano on depths (nightmare mu since we are a slow deck that can’t interact with lands & it doesn’t care about our hate pieces).
G1. Mulled a hand full of 3 balls into a fast curse hand. T1 eliminate his reclaimer into fast curse of misfortunes W T4
G2. He strips my hand with discard and my eliminates look very sad rotting in my hand. Definitely a mu I would love to the slaughter but they are so much worse vs rug and other creature decks. L T5.
G3. Have a t2 karn with a back up karn to play around discard. He discards the first one, hexmages the second and then discards the rest of my payoffs as I draw them.
Loss gets me 8th.

Overall I won the MU lottery playing against lots of unfair decks and dodging fair blue. RUG MU has improved considerably since I added 6 reasonable oko answers to the maindeck, and it is good to see that I am still trashing non-depths non-blue decks with the changes. Hopefully this provides some encouragement that the deck is not just a meme and is a reasonable t2 stompy deck.
If people enjoyed this and are interested in playing it, the discord permalink is here: https://discord.gg/hJNxrdD and I can write a mini primer.

list:

9 Snow-Covered Swamp
4 Trinisphere
4 Karn, the Great Creator
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Chalice of the Void
1 Curse of Death's Hold
4 Ancient Tomb
1 Cruel Reality
4 Leyline of the Void
1 Overwhelming Splendor
4 Curse of Misfortunes
4 City of Traitors
4 Dark Ritual
1 Helm of Obedience
4 Chrome Mox
4 Eliminate
1 Curse of Fool's Wisdom
2 Castle Locthwain
2 Murderous Rider

1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Mycosynth Lattice
1 Liquimetal Coating
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Curse of Exhaustion
1 Sorcerous Spyglass
1 Helm of Obedience
1 Vault of Whispers
3 Plague Engineer
1 Dreamstealer
2 Fatal Push
1 Liliana, the Last Hope

[FTW]

Great report!



R3: ark4n on dredge. https://www.twitch.tv/videos/690190040?t=3h48m27s
G1 OTD: I am a subscriber to his twitch, so I know from watching earlier he is on dredge. Mull to leyline. W T0
G2 keep a 6 w/leyline. He removes it on my t1 and then just casts the blue looting spell but does not crack his LED to go all in. then he concede to t2 karn -> crypt. W T2

R6: basuta on dredge. (was his last played deck on mtggoldfish)
G1 OTP: t0 leyline gg. He drags it out to see what I am doing before he has to discard to hand size. W T4.


lulz

This is the disadvantage of streaming. Dredge very badly needs to win game 1, and has 0% chance of doing that against maindeck Leyline + London Mulligan when you know they're on Dredge.

You must get a lot of free wins by just knowing when frequent players are on graveyard-dependent decks. BR Reanimator and Hogaak look like free wins too. That's a great advantage black Stompy has over Red and colorless versions. Fast wins from Helm are no joke either.

I noticed you cut 1 Plague Engineer for 1 Dreamstealker. When do you bring that in? How has it been?

[Reeplcheep]

Great report!



lulz

This is the disadvantage of streaming. Dredge very badly needs to win game 1, and has 0% chance of doing that against maindeck Leyline + London Mulligan when you know they're on Dredge.

You must get a lot of free wins by just knowing when frequent players are on graveyard-dependent decks. BR Reanimator and Hogaak look like free wins too. That's a great advantage black Stompy has over Red and colorless versions. Fast wins from Helm are no joke either.

I noticed you cut 1 Plague Engineer for 1 Dreamstealker. When do you bring that in? How has it been?

Md leyline also really helps vs tribal/fair non-blue since it gives you more sideboard slots. Unlike moon stompy, where the karn package + 4 leyline takes up your entire sideboard, i have enough slots to totally sideout 3ball & trinisphere when they are bad.

Dreamstealer was not in the 4th plague engineer slot. It replaced the anti combo discard card (collective brutality/lost legacy/necromentia etc) since it is still ok there but is much better against a snoko player sitting on a pile of fows & fon (they have to fow it, and you can't fow the enternalize). Liliana replaced the 4th plague engineer since it is still ok vs tribal/fair non-blue but is much better vs snoko. I have been liking the changes except one game against infect (liliana couldn't answer inkmoth nexus). Essentially the tweaks were to make my blue midrange/control mu's better while still being acceptable for the mu's they were intended for (combo & aggro respectively)

[Memories of the Time]

Dreamstealer seems a nice tech =) the eternalize part is cool

[Reeplcheep]

Went 4-1 in the prelim. This deck is decently positioned; eliminate and dystopia makes the snowko/rug matchup close to even, and you destroy all the gy & tribal decks trying to prey on them. Also depths is nowhere to be found. Against snoko, casting haymaker after haymaker is boring but often they have trouble finding the 4th force effect out of their 8 :P , but they have little pressure when you are running 10 ways to deal with it.

Records:

LWW BR Reanimator OTD
WLW Rug Delver OTP
LWL Miracles + oko OTD
WLW Snowko OTP
W (game 1 t0 leyline lolololol) W Hogaak OTP

The pack rat cheese got forced a few times and won the game another time.


9 Snow-Covered Swamp
4 Trinisphere
4 Karn, the Great Creator
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Chalice of the Void
1 Curse of Death's Hold
4 Ancient Tomb
1 Cruel Reality
4 Leyline of the Void
1 Overwhelming Splendor
4 Curse of Misfortunes
4 City of Traitors
4 Dark Ritual
1 Helm of Obedience
4 Chrome Mox
4 Eliminate
1 Curse of Fool's Wisdom
2 Castle Locthwain
2 Murderous Rider

1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Mycosynth Lattice
1 Liquimetal Coating
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Sorcerous Spyglass
1 Helm of Obedience
1 Vault of Whispers
4 Plague Engineer
2 Dystopia
2 Pack Rat
[]

Dystopia is excellent since it is the only card that can effeciently clean up an oko + elk, very impressed. Against delver sometimes you die vs arcanist with it in hand if you used eliminate on their oko earlier. So sequence carefully and that is why I am not running 4.

[Reeplcheep]

Had an excellent dono league with phil gallagher. I highly recommend checking out G3M3 vs snoko, some very interesting lines. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ign9eHhdCIs

[Reeplcheep]

Slowly puttering away at primer, here is list of plague engineer names that will hit more than 1 card. (note not necessarily the best names though)

1. RUG Delver
a. Wizard (1/1 delver + DreadHorde Arcanist)
2. UR Delver
a. Wizard (1/1 delver + DHA)
b. Human (delver both sides + Pyromancer)
c. Faerie (sprite dragon + brazen borrower)
d. Rogue (brazen borrower + True Name Nemesis)
3. Goblins/Elves/Eldrazi/Slivers/Humans/Merfolk
a. ↑
4. D&T
a. Human (most things)
5. Breakfast
a. Wizard (Cephalid Illusionist and Thassa’s oracle)
b. Kor (Nomads-en-kor & SFM)
6. Ninjas
a. ↑
b. Thopter (Changeling, ornithopter, & retrofitter)
7. Hogaak
a. Zombie (gravecrawler, supplier, imp, bridge from below; NOT bloodghast)
8. Loam
a. Human (bob, Meddling mage, Knight of the reliquary)
b. Elf (reclaimer, leo)
9. Maverick
a. Human (mom, hierarch, thalia, KOTR)
b. Dryad (arbor, Knight of Autumn)
c. Knight (KOTR, KOA)
10. Rector fit
a. Human (explorer, both rectors)
11. Titan Stompy
a. Dryad (arbor, dryad of the illysian grove (errata))
12. Karn Echo
a. Construct (ballista + urza)
13. Esper Vial
a. Human (prince/recruiter/MM/jailer/plague engineer/peace keeper)
14. Infect
a. Human (Blighted agent + hierarch)
15. Enchantress
a. Human (argothian + setessan + destiny spinner)
16. Yorion decks
a. Yorion is a bird like strix but not a snake like coatl.

[Reeplcheep]

From my twitter:

Dismissed as hot garbage in spoiler season, I have been impressed with Pelakka Predation in my deck. Went 4-1 in my first league. It traded for 4 Forces, a Rabblemaster and 2 3feri's. Even if inefficient, this is insane for a utility land; it directly lead to the wins vs blue.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EiM2jTrU4AMEIKR?format=jpg&name=small

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EiM2mhfU0AA5p8h?format=jpg&name=small

Edit: figured out how to link images

[Reeplcheep]

Why this is strong even though it looks so bad is because of sol lands, 3ball and mox.

Pondering for a land, a rite of flame or a duress is something that is totally reasonable in tes.

Playing this card ETB tapped, putting it under a chrome mox or casting it respectively is essentially the same thing but doesn't care about your own lock pieces. The discard mode is essentially a duress in this deck since 3ball + chalice means the only non-creature spells you care about are PW & forces usually. Occasionally it will hit creatures out of non-blue decks as a bonus.

Having 4 extra lands is also amazing in 3ball lock situations; against delver you often will go t1 3ball and then they will wasteland your sol land. Being much more likely to draw out of it than your opponent, without affecting your topdeck quality too much, is insane.

[FTW]

From my twitter:

Dismissed as hot garbage in spoiler season, I have been impressed with Pelakka Predation in my deck. Went 4-1 in my first league. It traded for 4 Forces, a Rabblemaster and 2 3feri's. Even if inefficient, this is insane for a utility land; it directly lead to the wins vs blue.

Interesting.

It looks like it's adding a lot of value for you by letting you run a whopping 14 black-producing lands + 4 Chrome Mox = 18 permanent black sources, which is unheard of in a stompy deck. Yet it still acts as a black card to imprint on Chrome Mox and costs the same as Thoughtseize under a Trinisphere. It also has synergy with Chalice and Eliminate, which already shuts off low-cost cards, so you only really care about the high cost ones anyway.

The deck looks very streamlined now. Before you were struggling with running some 1BB cards main to handle enemy creatures, but couldn't consistently cast them. Now you're just on 4x Eliminate + 4x Predation as diverse answers to handle their biggest threats, plus the core black Stompy package and the Curse package, and you should have a much easier time producing BB for any SB cards.

Edit: Changeling Outcast snuck in Ingenious Infiltrator with Ninjitsu

[Reeplcheep]

Interesting.

It looks like it's adding a lot of value for you by letting you run a whopping 14 black-producing lands + 4 Chrome Mox = 18 permanent black sources, which is unheard of in a stompy deck. Yet it still acts as a black card to imprint on Chrome Mox and costs the same as Thoughtseize under a Trinisphere. It also has synergy with Chalice and Eliminate, which already shuts off low-cost cards, so you only really care about the high cost ones anyway.

The deck looks very streamlined now. Before you were struggling with running some 1BB creatures main to handle enemy creatures. Now you're just on 4x Eliminate + 4x Predation as diverse answers to handle their biggest threats, plus the core black Stompy package and the Curse package, and you should have a much easier time producing BB for any SB cards.

Yes, being able to cut my last BB cards MD (castle and murderous rider) makes sol lands considerably stronger. The extra black sources also allow me to get away with a karakas, which helps the gawd-aweful depths mu.

The deck is finally in a spot where everything feels fast and at least not embarassing to cast, which feels great as a brewer. As you can see in the list, the deck now divides neatly into 1/4 black mana 1/4 acceleration 1/4 disruption 1/4 expensive "win the game" cards.

What do you mean by that edit.

Edit: My mana is probably good enough at this point that I could consider 2 karakas.

[Reeplcheep]

Additionally the deck now feels like playing a black control deck since you have discard and removal; before eliminate & predation you just felt like any other karn deck splashing black for curse & plague engineer. In my subjective opinion that makes it more fun since you get some of the control fun of black midrange without auto-losing to veil of summer.

[FTW]

By the edit I meant you Ninja'd in with another comment already explaining some of the stuff I speculated about, between when I read yours and when I posted. Post ninja might be an outdated meme by now...

Valakut Awakening might add value to red stompy in the same way, being mana when you need mana or card filtering when you're flooded. I like this idea of colored lands being able to play dual roles. It fills a consistency gaps that Legacy Chalice stompy decks struggle with, trying to balance mana sources with spells and deal with variance in draws.

[Reeplcheep]

By the edit I meant you Ninja'd in with another comment already explaining some of the stuff I speculated about, between when I read yours and when I posted. Post ninja might be an outdated meme by now...

Valakut Awakening might add value to red stompy in the same way, being mana when you need mana or card filtering when you're flooded. I like this idea of colored lands being able to play dual roles. It fills a consistency gaps that Legacy Chalice stompy decks struggle with, trying to balance mana sources with spells and deal with variance in draws.

Ok sorry. The first post was just a cntrl+c, cntrl+v from my twitter, ninja was additional thoughts.

I definitely agree, although the untapped nature of shattergang is appealing. The tapped lands are much better spells and the mythics are very unefficient. It will be interesting to see which is better. Agadeem's does nothing in my deck so I can't comment on the relative power level of shattergang pass vs valakut awoken.

I think the uncommons are better if you want it to be a spell most of the time (like my deck) and the mythics are better if you want it to be a land most of the time (like Oops). I am not sure what side moon stompy falls on.

[FTW]

I definitely agree, although the untapped nature of shattergang is appealing. The tapped lands are much better spells and the mythics are very unefficient. It will be interesting to see which is better. Agadeem's does nothing in my deck so I can't comment on the relative power level of shattergang pass vs valakut awoken.

I think the uncommons are better if you want it to be a spell most of the time (like my deck) and the mythics are better if you want it to be a land most of the time (like Oops). I am not sure what side moon stompy falls on.

For Oops, they don't even care what the text on the front side says. It could be a 16-mana 1/1 and they would play it, because it's untapped colored permanent mana source that counts as a spell.

Stompy decks tend to struggle with balancing the line between having enough colored sources and having enough gas/not losing too many games to variance and flooding. The mechanic is still new, but it looks like a promising way to address both sides of the issue. It does both depending on what you need.

I think Shatterskull Smashing is overrrated for Moon Stompy. Because it takes a land drop, ETB untapped still doesn't help accelerate turn 1 lock pieces the way SSG/Ritual and Mox do, so how much does the speed matter? Losing 3 life is a big drawback for an Ancient Tomb deck, while the front side is a 5-mana Arc Lightning or 4-mana Forked Bolt (that can't even hit players) when they can already run Fiery Confluence. It just looks bad both as a mana source and as a spell. Meanwhile the spell side of Awakening looks very relevant and castable, filtering out extra mana and redundant lock pieces into more gas.

[Reeplcheep]

For Oops, they don't even care what the text on the front side says. It could be a 16-mana 1/1 and they would play it, because it's untapped colored permanent mana source that counts as a spell.

Stompy decks tend to struggle with balancing the line between having enough colored sources and having enough gas/not losing too many games to variance and flooding. The mechanic is still new, but it looks like a promising way to address both sides of the issue. It does both depending on what you need.

I think Shatterskull Smashing is overrrated for Moon Stompy. Because it takes a land drop, ETB untapped still doesn't help accelerate turn 1 lock pieces the way SSG/Ritual and Mox do, so how much does the speed matter? Losing 3 life is a big drawback for an Ancient Tomb deck, while the front side is a 5-mana Arc Lightning or 4-mana Forked Bolt (that can't even hit players). It just looks bad both as a mana source and as a spell. Meanwhile the spell side of Awakening looks very relevant and castable, filtering out extra mana and redundant lock pieces into more gas.

The argument is that etb untapped is relevant for followup to t1 chalice (karn or moon or something) but I think I agree with you that having a better spell is more important.

[Reeplcheep]

Pelakka Predation is the real deal. From my twitter:

After punting away several 5-0's, I finally got the 5-0 with pelakka predation. It offers incredible smoothing for a 3ball deck; having a land that can trade with FoW/FoN/Oko/S&T/FoV is all I ever wanted. More black cards also means I can run 2 helms MD, which have been great

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EiephRKVgAIM2dI?format=jpg&name=small
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Eiep2UzUMAMW5yp?format=jpg&name=small
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Eiep8OUUYAAroat?format=jpg&name=small
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Eiep5fnVkAAmEIB?format=jpg&name=small

[FTW]

Great results. How are you sideboarding? When you bring in the many anti-aggro slots, what comes out?

[Reeplcheep]

The sideboard is built such that you can fully side-out chalice + 3ball against tribal decks. Against other decks you have less cuts.

Usually karn & drit out for his targets plus dystopia vs blue aggro, all fast mana out for discard & dystopia & some karn targets vs slow blue, 3ball for discard/vault/spyglass vs land based decks. Combo is eliminates out for discard and helm or spyglass.

[FTW]

What's the reasoning to cut both Chalice & 3ball vs tribal? Isn't Elves full of 1 drops to slow down?

Merfolk and Goblins have fewer 1s plus they have Cavern, so I get why Chalice goes out, but shouldn't 3ball still cost them tempo? I would expect 3ball to help vs aggressive decks.

[Reeplcheep]

What's the reasoning to cut both Chalice & 3ball vs tribal? Isn't Elves full of 1 drops to slow down?

Merfolk and Goblins have fewer 1s plus they have Cavern, so I get why Chalice goes out, but shouldn't 3ball still cost them tempo? I would expect 3ball to help vs aggressive decks.

I count elves as more of a combo deck. Against 4c Loam, Eldrazi, Goblins, Death and taxes, moon stompy etc the 3 ball doesn't really do anything. Furthermore the best way for them to beat us is mana denial, so stopping our own dark rituals is problematic.

[H]

New thread, with freshly written Primer. (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?33413-Curse-Stompy-(Demon-Stompy-Reborn))