Kaldheim. It's going to have Snow. And Vikings.

[Barook]

I wonder how it works in tandem in Vial:

T1: Vial
T2: In Search of Greatness (vialing in a 1cc creature is optional here)
T3: ISoG trigger on stack, vial above it, put second counter on Vial, put a 2cc creature into play, ISoG trigger resolves, put 3cc permanent into play.

That should work, right?

[rufus]

I wonder how it works in tandem in Vial:

T1: Vial
T2: In Search of Greatness (vialing in a 1cc creature is optional here)
T3: ISoG trigger on stack, vial above it, put second counter on Vial, put a 2cc creature into play, ISoG trigger resolves, put 3cc permanent into play.

That should work, right?

But then what? If In Search of Greatness spends the rest of the game not doing anything because you're not playing 4-drops, then you might as well have played ESG instead. Or, if you are playing 4-drops, how many of them can you play without having tempo problems?

Vial decks already tend to prefer operating with one vial at a time, and adding In Search of Greatness is going to be a lot like adding a second vial.

[Barook]

But then what? If In Search of Greatness spends the rest of the game not doing anything because you're not playing 4-drops, then you might as well have played ESG instead. Or, if you are playing 4-drops, how many of them can you play without having tempo problems?

Vial decks already tend to prefer operating with one vial at a time, and adding In Search of Greatness is going to be a lot like adding a second vial.
ISoG can scry, though, while excess Vials sit around like a dud.

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

ISoG can scry, though, while excess Vials sit around like a dud.

Yeah but you still don't want both at once.

[FTW]

If you're using it in a fair deck, notice it says other permanents, not "nonland", so your lands count. It will cast a free 1 cmc with nothing else on the board. You don't need to combo it with Vial. After that, it basically functions like a Vial, ticking up each turn and cheating you more mana, as long as the permanent survives. You can also hardcast permanents to jump to a higher number.

To use it unfairly, we need to look at the cmcs that are easy to cheat and what would be worth playing at that mana cost.

"Free" 4cmcs are common
Vine Dryad
Skyshroud Cutter
Frogmite

What's worth cheating out at 5 cmc? Titania, Protector of Argoth? Teferi? Some red dragon? Future Sight? Paradox Engine? I can't think of anything great.

If you go higher, there are cheap 6cmcs using Delve or Affinity
Hooting Mandrills
Tasigur, the Golden Fang
Spire Golem


These could cheat out a 7cmc like
Karn Liberated
Chancellor of the Tangle
Chancellor of the Annex
Angel of Despair
Gaea's Revenge


Even higher, 7cmcs enablers include
Allosaurus Rider
Gurmag Angler
Myr Enforcer

There's some real value at 8cmc if you're willing to play a 7 cmc enabler:
Griselbrand
Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker
Ashen Rider
Sphinx of the Steel Wind
Craterhoof Behemoth

I probably missed a lot, but I hope this gets the discussion going.

If you use it to cheat out a creature, you can also run 4x Neoform as another line of attack.

[rufus]

If you're using it in a fair deck, notice it says other permanents, not "nonland", so your lands count. It will cast a free 1 cmc with nothing else on the board. You don't need to combo it with Vial. After that, it basically functions like a Vial, ticking up each turn and cheating you more mana, as long as the permanent survives. You can also hardcast permanents to jump to a higher number...

I guess the ability does nothing if you have no other permanents.

There's also the repeated tutor angle with stomething like Captain Sisay or Fauna Shaman but it's really slow.

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

I guess the ability does nothing if you have no other permanents.

There's also the repeated tutor angle with stomething like Captain Sisay or Fauna Shaman but it's really slow.

It scry's/

[Reeplcheep]

Imo cycling and delver are the best way to cheat on this. Delve was already covered, but cheating out a delve card is usually pretty low impact. Cycling cards are better cheat targets due having high cmc and higher floors. Lay claim, shark typhoon, and yidaro, wandering monster are all 7cmc options to get from tasigur.



The best home might be bug snow control: coatl to oko, land to labe, labe to coatl, tasigur/delver whale to shark typhoon.

[Barook]

http://mythicspoiler.com/khm/cards/fynnthefangbearer.jpg

Not sure if this could have a home anywhere - 5 hits of creatures to kill the opponent and is GSZ-able.

[morgan_coke]

I know they're mostly not legacy playable, but there are some cards in this set that I'm really, really enjoying the design of. Like Path to the World Tree - it's a bad Sylvan Scrying, but then when your ramp deck gets lategame it turns your excess mana into an absolute ton of value, easily the best Domain card since Invasion. I'm definitely making something using it and the Rainbow Bridge split card.

I also just love the new uncommon land cycle. They finally gave the "sac a land for an effect" thing some legs in every color. The red white one sacrificing to tutor for two cards is just an unbelievable improvement over the standard "make one or two 1/1's" that white usually gets in these. And the blue/red one giving you a mini board wipe is also huge given how quickly some token decks can repeatedly refill the board. The red/green one destroying a land but ALSO giving you a 4/4? Like, these have timing restrictions and costs that make them feel not OP even. Just a really great job design wise, especially compared to their Dominaria counterparts, which were neat conceptually, but very lackluster in execution.

[rufus]

"Harnfel, Horn of Abundance" has an ability with serious potential:

Discard a card: Exile the top two cards of your library. You may play those cards this turn.

That combined with Ovalchase Daredevil in the gy and 0-cc mana artifacts could go off pretty hard.

[Hanni]

"Harnfel, Horn of Abundance" has an ability with serious potential:

Discard a card: Exile the top two cards of your library. You may play those cards this turn.

That combined with Ovalchase Daredevil in the gy and 0-cc mana artifacts could go off pretty hard.

Riddlesmith already does that, though.

[rufus]

Riddlesmith already does that, though.

The horn gets two cards for every one that's discarded.

[morgan_coke]

That horn looks like a red, artifact Ad Naseum that doesn't randomly kill you sometimes in the right deck. Cray cray strong for eternal formats.

[Mr. Safety]

The new red god seems very good for Ruby Storm. As a creature it's functionally another Medallion because it provides R every time you cast a spell. As an artifact it will be pretty insane with Past in Flames.

[Barook]

http://mythicspoiler.com/khm/cards/dreamdevourer.jpg

Interesting card. Not sure if you can do anything cool with it in Legacy, but it might help smooth out the mana curve and has some interactions, e.g. with Ensnaring Bridge or Hellbent.

[Reeplcheep]

http://mythicspoiler.com/khm/cards/dreamdevourer.jpg

Interesting card. Not sure if you can do anything cool with it in Legacy, but it might help smooth out the mana curve and has some interactions, e.g. with Ensnaring Bridge or Hellbent.

Not sure if those decks are in the market for a 2 mana 0/3, but it has extreme synergy with both LED and standstill.

[Tylert]

Horn + vega and 0 mana artifacts.

[rufus]

Horn + vega and 0 mana artifacts.

That's nice since it avoids graveyard dependence and it works with ritual chains too but there's a host of possibilities like just running tutors (Infernal Tutor seems good) and draw spells, Shadow of the Grave, and self-returning cards like Ovalchase Daredevil and Salvage Titan.

I think there's more of a challenge getting the horn into play efficiently than going off once its on the table. It turns out the other side of the horn has potential as a mana engine too.

[Reeplcheep]

https://i.redd.it/dhhtnetm24c61.jpg

This might be standstill playable as a supreme verdict replacement. T3 instead of t4 vs elves, D&T and goblins is big game. Foretelling is free and avoids hand size limits with a standstill in play. 1 cmc cheaper is sort of like uncounterability from daze.

Doesn’t pitch to force of will and can get blown out by a force of course.

AFAIK there is no playable 3 cmc wrath in white like toxic deluge or dead of winter so it’s worth considering if you can’t enable terminus easily.

[Barook]

https://i.imgur.com/gvx18OR.png

Looks like Mistform Ultimus worked out.

[mistercakes]

turbo rebels depths. if you target your dark depths with a hydroblast, you can get a marit lage.

[dte]

turbo rebels depths. if you target your dark depths with a hydroblast, you can get a marit lage.

Why wouldn't the copy get counters?

[mistercakes]

Oh bummer. I guess it would!

[BenBleiweiss]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EsH9AVyWMAMgf9n?format=png&name=900x900

COMMON?

[Fox]

https://i.redd.it/dhhtnetm24c61.jpg

This might be standstill playable as a supreme verdict replacement. T3 instead of t4 vs elves, D&T and goblins is big game. Foretelling is free and avoids hand size limits with a standstill in play. 1 cmc cheaper is sort of like uncounterability from daze.

Doesn’t pitch to force of will and can get blown out by a force of course.

AFAIK there is no playable 3 cmc wrath in white like toxic deluge or dead of winter so it’s worth considering if you can’t enable terminus easily.

Double white + sorcery speed kills it, still loses to 1x Port.

[Reeplcheep]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EsH9AVyWMAMgf9n?format=png&name=900x900

COMMON?

Sorry. Only blue gets good removal now.

[morgan_coke]

Sorry. Only blue gets good removal now.

Remember when Paralyze was black? Ah, the good old days.

[Barook]

Remember when Paralyze was black? Ah, the good old days.
I member. But hey, blue gets everything anyway, so no surprises here.

Can we now please give white some mana dorks to end its suffering? They've already tried to copy green, but shittier, with the last Commander set. And they keep stuffing the 3cc slot with anything remotely interesting while 1cc and 2cc got completely abandoned.

The only white cards that stand out as interesting from this set are Search for Glory, Sigrid and Righteous Valkyrie - all 3cc. Last good white card we got before? Skyclave Apparition - 3cc. Even all the hatebears get shifted to 3cc and this trend sucks. Thalia turns 9 now and she's still the best white hatebear we got while everything else got powercrept to hell and back.

[Clark Kant]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EsH9AVyWMAMgf9n?format=png&name=900x900

COMMON?

Is this playable in monoblue delver?

[Fox]

Is this playable in monoblue delver?

Not vs elves or maverick it's not. :laugh: Also this gives Griselbrand pilot 7 life, and Marit Lage 1-shots you.

[Wrath of Pie]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EsH9AVyWMAMgf9n?format=png&name=900x900

COMMON?
Blue obviously needed a Fall from Favor replacement for Pauper, because it broke the format too much and ended up banned.

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

Is this playable in monoblue delver?

More playable against than in

[phonics]

I member. But hey, blue gets everything anyway, so no surprises here.


Its gotten to the point where the criticism eventually became a (bad) joke, and now they are hamming up the joke because they think it is funny.

[Mr. Safety]

Time to put together a potentially playable list of cards from Kaldheim (emphasis on potentially):

Doomskar
Reidane, God of the Worthy
Ascendant Spirit
Bind the Monster
Ravenform
Dream Devourer
Birgi, God of Storytelling // Harnfel, Horn of Bounty
Tibalt's Trickery
In Search of Greatness
Mystical Reflection
Jorn, God of Winter // Kaldring, the Rimestaff
Sarulf, Realm Eater
Pyre of Heroes
Snow-Covered Island

[morgan_coke]

Time to put together a potentially playable list of cards from Kaldheim (emphasis on potentially):

Doomskar
Reidane, God of the Worthy
Ascendant Spirit
Bind the Monster
Ravenform
Dream Devourer
Birgi, God of Storytelling // Harnfel, Horn of Bounty
Tibalt's Trickery
In Search of Greatness
Mystical Reflection
Jorn, God of Winter // Kaldring, the Rimestaff
Sarulf, Realm Eater
Pyre of Heroes
Snow-Covered Island


I would add Narfi, the Betrayer King to that list, not 100% sure what deck he goes in, but a 5/4 zombie/snow lord from the GY for 3 mana is definitely niche playable. Maybe Snowko? Maybe something else, in many ways he's a better version of Haakon, which has also shown up occasionally.

[rufus]

Time to put together a potentially playable list of cards from Kaldheim (emphasis on potentially):
...

There's some other really marginal stuff.

I wonder if the potential life gain on Search for Glory is enough to offset the 3 mana cost. There's certainly a long list of things that it can fetch.

Burning-Rune Demon could be a piece of a food chain combo finish.

Crush the Weak probably won't see play, but sweepers like that aren't terrible.

Realmwalker might work in elves.

Does infect want Snakesin Veil over something like Blossoming Defense for the durable bonus?

It's unlikely Vega the Watcher could be a combo or engine pieces.

Does snowco run any of the ice duals as a fetch target?

[alphastryk]

There's some other really marginal stuff.
...
Vega the Watcher could be a combo or engine pieces.

The best I could come up with is it draws a card every time you cast Misthollow Griffin and friends in a Food Chain loop, but being legendary is a big downside.

[rufus]

If a card that doesn't have a foretell ability otherwise gets foretold with Dream Devourer and it leaves play, is the foretold card stranded? It doesn't have a foretold cost without the Devourer in play, right?

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

If a card that doesn't have a foretell ability otherwise gets foretold with Dream Devourer and it leaves play, is the foretold card stranded? It doesn't have a foretold cost without the Devourer in play, right?

I don't think they've released the official rules but it appears that being fortold is a status, and once you pay the cost they're fortold even if the Devourer is gone.

[Fox]

If a card that doesn't have a foretell ability otherwise gets foretold with Dream Devourer and it leaves play, is the foretold card stranded? It doesn't have a foretold cost without the Devourer in play, right?

This will work like Illusionary Mask; destroying the thing that introduced the rules [i.e. Dream Devourer] will not remove the rules.

Remember that just like any face-down cards you need to *very* clearly maintain order of face-down exile. If you pick up two face-down spells and shuffle them up, you're getting a game loss. If you fail to reveal at end of game = game loss.

[rufus]

This will work like Illusionary Mask; destroying the thing that introduced the rules [i.e. Dream Devourer] will not remove the rules.

Remember that just like any face-down cards you need to *very* clearly maintain order of face-down exile. If you pick up two face-down spells and shuffle them up, you're getting a game loss. If you fail to reveal at end of game = game loss.

Huh, the template is a mess - "...Each nonland card in your hand without foretell has foretell. Its foretell cost is equal to its mana cost reduced by {2}. ..." So - even with the expected scenario - when the card gets exiled (using foretell) it doesn't have a foretell cost anymore unless the foretell cost somehow gets "locked in" at the moment that the card is exiled. Meanwhile Ethereal Valkyrie exiles the card first and then sets the foretell cost after putting it into exile, and Dream Devourer doesn't have the "even on a later turn" reminder text that Ethereal Valkyrie has.

Suppose Ethereal Valkyrie's ability is used to foretell Struggle for Skemfar. Does it cost 1G or G to cast it from exile (maybe either is allowed)? How does it work if Starnheim Unleashed is foretold by the Valkyrie?

In contrast, we have morph (and megamorph) and manifest (and illusionary mask) which are distinct mechanics for face-down cards.

I guess I'll just have to see what the rules are like when they get published.

[Fox]

The foretell action is 2 colorless mana. The "flip cost" is in the upper right of the face-down card, minus 2 colorless mana. This part is pretty clearly spelled out.

Face-down rules are pretty easy to understand. If a card has a way to be "flipped," you can do that. So if you manifest a Stratus Dancer for example, you have 2 options: flip over for 1U or megamorph flip-over for 1U. All face-down mechanics work the way you want them to.

Do note the template gives them: nonland cards *without* foretell get foretell. The mechanics are simple. The problem is that you better prove to your opponent that everything you're doing with hidden info is legit. Again, any lie/failure to disclose all hidden info at end of game is a straight up game loss.

...and if you're playing a card that gives non-foretell the foretell ability, and your deck plays even a single card with actual foretell...you better be saying where the foretell ability is coming from, and you better keep face-down exile order clearly marked.

The problem for this mechanic is that standard and modern players can't even maintain yard order. 100% judge call if your opponent can't demonstrate that they didn't foretell a card without the ability, and then rip a guy that grants foretell to non-foretell...and then lie about foretelling in an illegal card [one with foretell printed on it] through the enabler. They shuffle anything face-down, even after a game is over they just lost.

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

Huh, the template is a mess - "...Each nonland card in your hand without foretell has foretell. Its foretell cost is equal to its mana cost reduced by {2}. ..." So - even with the expected scenario - when the card gets exiled (using foretell) it doesn't have a foretell cost anymore unless the foretell cost somehow gets "locked in" at the moment that the card is exiled. Meanwhile Ethereal Valkyrie exiles the card first and then sets the foretell cost after putting it into exile, and Dream Devourer doesn't have the "even on a later turn" reminder text that Ethereal Valkyrie has.

Suppose Ethereal Valkyrie's ability is used to foretell Struggle for Skemfar. Does it cost 1G or G to cast it from exile (maybe either is allowed)? How does it work if Starnheim Unleashed is foretold by the Valkyrie?

In contrast, we have morph (and megamorph) and manifest (and illusionary mask) which are distinct mechanics for face-down cards.

I guess I'll just have to see what the rules are like when they get published.

Compare it to morph: To put it face down, it's always 3, so you'll always know if your opponent is cheating the cost.
And then face-up cost on a morph is printed on the card, same with this card using it's CMC. So when you turn it faceup everyone will know if you could pay the cost and if you couldn't (just like with morph) we go back in time and reset the card. Your opponent will know, however what the card is and you'll have to mark it somehow.
As for Ethereal Valkyrie I think you're overthinking it: The card is foretold, it has two fortell costs and you can pay either. The angel making X card will make zero angels if you don't pay an X, and since no matter which cost you pay it will have been fortold you should pay the X cost.

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

The problem for this mechanic is that standard and modern players can't even maintain yard order. 100% judge call if your opponent can't demonstrate that they didn't foretell a card without the ability, and then rip a guy that grants foretell to non-foretell...and then lie about foretelling in an illegal card [one with foretell printed on it] through the enabler. They shuffle anything face-down, even after a game is over they just lost.
Are people doing this with Manifest and morph?

[Fox]

Are people doing this with Manifest and morph?

Keeping track of order and revealing at end of game - yes. In terms of people playing a manifest enabler and also having cards with morph in same deck - no.

Edit: the other thing that doesn't happen with morph/manifest is not knowing how the card is getting to the battlefield. If you have that 0/3 enabler guy + card with foretell in hand + card without foretell in hand you absolutely must tell your opponent how the card is getting to face-down exile - i.e. you must make it clear that "this card l am putting into face-down exile does not have foretell printed on it, and I am using the 0/3 dude to do it" vs "this card has foretell printed on it, and I am not using 0/3 dude"

[rufus]

Compare it to morph: To put it face down, it's always 3, so you'll always know if your opponent is cheating the cost.
And then face-up cost on a morph is printed on the card, same with this card using it's CMC. So when you turn it faceup everyone will know if you could pay the cost and if you couldn't (just like with morph) we go back in time and reset the card. Your opponent will know, however what the card is and you'll have to mark it somehow.

I am comparing it to morph. Suppose that WotC wanted to print a morph analogue to Dream Devourer. What would the text of that card have to be like in order to work right? It certainly wouldn't be as simple as "creature cards in your hand have morph and their morph card is equal to their casting cost." That effect would allow players to cast cards face-down from the hand, but when they hit the battlefield there would be no way to turn them face-up.

With stuff getting turned face down on the battlefield, the ability turn face-up is either printed on the card - like morph or megamorph - or it's explicitly created by the effect that makes a face-down card in play in the first place - like manifest or the illusionary mask. If something like Ixidron turns cards face-down without creating an ability or effect that turns the cards face-up, the cards are stuck face-down.

In contrast to morph which only flips up cards that actually have morph costs printed on them, with Foretell we have a bunch of cards that have foretell costs printed on them, and two effects - Dream Devourer and Ethereal Valkyrie - that can foretell cards which don't have foretell costs printed on them. So is foretell like manifest - where the ability to flip up is set up as part of exiling the card face-down, or is foretell like morph where the ability to flip up is part of the card text, or is it some ad hoc mix of the two?


...As for Ethereal Valkyrie I think you're overthinking it: The card is foretold, it has two fortell costs and you can pay either. The angel making X card will make zero angels if you don't pay an X, and since no matter which cost you pay it will have been fortold you should pay the X cost.

The text on valkyrie is " ... its foretold cost is its mana cost reduced by :2:...." If the text were "... it gains a foretell cost equal to ... " instead of "...its foretell cost is ..." then "paying either cost" like you suggest would make sense. (Technically, face-down cards don't have mana costs, so they'll have to make some sausage in the rules to make that part work correctly too.)

[Fox]

I think what you're mostly talking about @rufus is being confused b/c they kinda use the same word to describe two things. Foretell seems to be used to denote putting a card face-down, and also to flip it face-up for casting. Just read the card as foretell = act of putting face-down, and "un-foretell" as flipping face-up for casting.

[rufus]

I think what you're mostly talking ...

Thanks for the responses. I'll just wait for the release notes and bring this back up in the rules questions section if it's still unclear.

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

I am comparing it to morph. Suppose that WotC wanted to print a morph analogue to Dream Devourer. What would the text of that card have to be like in order to work right? It certainly wouldn't be as simple as "creature cards in your hand have morph and their morph card is equal to their casting cost." That effect would allow players to cast cards face-down from the hand, but when they hit the battlefield there would be no way to turn them face-up.
...Why wouldn't it?
Why doesn't "Creature cards in your hand have morph. Their morph cost is equal to their CMC" fit the rules?


With stuff getting turned face down on the battlefield, the ability turn face-up is either printed on the card - like morph or megamorph - or it's explicitly created by the effect that makes a face-down card in play in the first place - like manifest or the illusionary mask. If something like Ixidron turns cards face-down without creating an ability or effect that turns the cards face-up, the cards are stuck face-down.
And why would this not be true of Fortell? Why are you assuming manifest explicitly creates a condition that Fortell doesn't?


In contrast to morph which only flips up cards that actually have morph costs printed on them, with Foretell we have a bunch of cards that have foretell costs printed on them, and two effects - Dream Devourer and Ethereal Valkyrie - that can foretell cards which don't have foretell costs printed on them. So is foretell like manifest - where the ability to flip up is set up as part of exiling the card face-down, or is foretell like morph where the ability to flip up is part of the card text, or is it some ad hoc mix of the two? You are once again overthinking this. They didn't print a mechanic that inherently doesn't function.



The text on valkyrie is " ... its foretold cost is its mana cost reduced by :2:...." If the text were "... it gains a foretell cost equal to ... " instead of "...its foretell cost is ..." then "paying either cost" like you suggest would make sense. (Technically, face-down cards don't have mana costs, so they'll have to make some sausage in the rules to make that part work correctly too.)
Nah.

[rufus]

Why doesn't "Creature cards in your hand have morph. Their morph cost is equal to their CMC" fit the rules?

There's no rules problem per se, but it doesn't do what it ought to. I'm not 100% sure you'd be able to cast it face-down and once the card is face-down on the battlefield it's a new object and it's not in hand, so it doesn't have a morph ability that allows players to flip it face-up.

[Fox]

There's no rules problem per se, but it doesn't do what it ought to. I'm not 100% sure you'd be able to cast it face-down and once the card is face-down on the battlefield it's a new object and it's not in hand, so it doesn't have a morph ability that allows players to flip it face-up.

It is best to go back to OG rules to understand what is happening. The backside of the card "lives" in the exile zone, the front side of a face-down card lives in the face-down exile zone. The rules have been dumbed down, but both the battlefield and exile zones operate exactly as if they have a face-up half and a face-down half. Go to the correct half of the zone and you will "see" where the instructions "live."

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

702.141. Foretell

702.141a Foretell is a keyword that functions while the card with foretell is in a player's hand. Any time a player has priority during their turn, that player may pay {2} and exile a card with foretell from their hand face down. If the player does, that player may look at that card and they may cast it after the current turn has ended by paying any foretell cost it has rather than paying that spell's mana cost. Casting a spell this way follows the rules for paying alternative costs in rules 601.2b and 601.2f–h.

702.141b Exiling a card using its foretell ability is a special action, which doesn't use the stack. See rule 116, "Special Actions."

702.141c If an effect refers to foretelling a card, it means performing the special action associated with a foretell ability. If an effect refers to a card or spell that was foretold, it means a card put in the exile zone as a result of the special action associated with a foretell ability, or a spell that was a foretold card before it was cast, even if it was cast for a cost other than a foretell cost.

702.141d If an effect states that a card in exile becomes foretold, that card becomes a foretold card. That effect may give the card a foretell cost. That card may be cast after the current turn has ended for any foretell cost it has, even if the resulting spell doesn't have foretell.

702.141e If a player owns multiple foretold cards in exile, they must ensure that those cards can be easily differentiated from each other and from any other face-down cards in exile which that player owns. This includes knowing both the order in which those cards were put into exile and any foretell costs other than their printed foretell costs those cards may have.

702.141f If a player leaves the game, all face-down cards foretold cards that player owns must be revealed to all players. At the end of each game, all face-down foretold cards must be revealed to all players.
I bolded the most relevant portion to this discussion.

[rufus]

I bolded the most relevant portion to this discussion.

702.141d is relevant to Ethereal Valkyrie, but not to Dream Devourer. Dream Devourer never refers to any exiled cards.

Here's the text from Dream Devourer:


Each nonland card in your hand without foretell has foretell. Its foretell cost is equal to its mana cost reduced by :2:.

Whenever you foretell a card, Dream Devourer gets +2/+0 until end of turn.

Is there some part that refers to exiled cards that I missed?

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

702.141d is relevant to Ethereal Valkyrie, but not to Dream Devourer. Dream Devourer never refers to any exiled cards.

Here's the text from Dream Devourer:

Is there some part that refers to exiled cards that I missed?
A card that is fortold becomes a fortell card. There is an effect (the card itself, as granted by the devourer) that is making the card in exile fortold.

[Fox]

@rufus - If you've ever played mtgo you know that random effects being added to cards show up as blue text in the text box. Devourer pastes the blue text about 'un-foretell' cost on the face-down card. So take yourself to the face-down half of the exile zone, look up at your card [you're seeing the face-up side], look at the text box, and note all the blue text about un-foretelling.

[Barook]

So apparently Tibalt Cascade is shitting all over Modern right now. Makes you wonder how long it's going to take until it takes off in Legacy, too. If it's broken in Modern, it should be good enough for Legacy in some form, too.

[kinda]

So apparently Tibalt Cascade is shitting all over Modern right now. Makes you wonder how long it's going to take until it takes off in Legacy, too. If it's broken in Modern, it should be good enough for Legacy in some form, too.

Check the first thing in our new and Dev forum. It's here and been 5-0 Ing.

[Barook]

Can't wait for Tibalt to break every format.
Oh, the irony.

[Barook]

One thing I've just realized only now is that Righteous Valkyrie is a Cleric, so it would slot well into a cleric deck featuring Daru Spiritualist and the Kor instant speed pingers (notably Nomads and Shaman - which is also a cleric) for another infinite life combo.

Guess what's also a cleric? Vito, Thorn of the Dusk Rose - so you can essentially gain infinite life and make your opponent lose infinite life. Sure, at that point, you're at a 4-card combo, but with things like Vial, Cavern and even the new Pyre of Heroes, there might be enough redunancy/counter immunity to make it worth exploring. At worst, you just beat your opponent down with a bunch of 4/6 flyers that double anthem the rest of your creatures.

[morgan_coke]

One thing I've just realized only now is that Righteous Valkyrie is a Cleric, so it would slot well into a cleric deck featuring Daru Spiritualist and the Kor instant speed pingers (notably Nomads and Shaman - which is also a cleric) for another infinite life combo.

Guess what's also a cleric? Vito, Thorn of the Dusk Rose - so you can essentially gain infinite life and make your opponent lose infinite life. Sure, at that point, you're at a 4-card combo, but with things like Vial, Cavern and even the new Pyre of Heroes, there might be enough redunancy/counter immunity to make it worth exploring. At worst, you just beat your opponent down with a bunch of 4/6 flyers that double anthem the rest of your creatures.

Don't forget Starlit Sanctum, an oldie but a goodie.

[Barook]

Don't forget Starlit Sanctum, an oldie but a goodie.
Obvious classic. Can even be fetched with Wayfarer (which is also a Cleric).

Ayli is another enabler - I wonder how fast you could nuke your opponent down with a bunch of creatures, Vito and Ayli - even without of the infinite combo. Angel buffs at high life would make it even easier.

Martyr of Sands could also be fancy with both the Angel and Vito (assuming you run enough white cards). But maybe the infinite life combo is just better.