Mono Red Welder Stax

[Laser Brains]

Hi guys! Okay, this deck is actually a beast! You have most likely seen my other Welder and Tubbies thread. I never tested that deck after goldfishing a thousand times, because the Stax build is absolutely sooooooo much better.

I mostly play with my buddy Schlieb, and we play paper Magic so we haven't taken this to an online event however we have a nice chunk of the top decks in the gauntlet for testing. We played 25 games in around 7 hours. We will soon be testing this against Esper Vial, Death and Taxes, Goblins, Elves, and Eldrazi.

Keep in mind, that for testing purposes we were not using sideboards and also keep in mind that this deck has not been tuned. After playing this list I have found that a couple of cards need the axe and perhaps I should be running at least one more land.

Here's the results:

Welder Stax vs. Sharkstill (with Replenish, Court of Grace and Moat, so many builds of this deck)
2 - 1

Welder Stax vs. Reanimator
1 - 2

Welder Stax vs. Burn
2 - 1

Welder Stax vs. Hogaack
2 -1

Welder Stax vs. BUG Delver (Threshold) This match up was really good so we played 9 games. Keep in mind I placed 1st with this Delver list at a small tournament a little over a year ago.
5 - 4

Welder Stax vs. Death's Shadow
2 - 0

Welder Stax vs. Doomsday (Thassa) I'm pretty certain I should have won both of these games. At this point, my brain wasn't working because we had been playing all day but also I kept bad hands.
0 - 2

Here's the exact list I was playing:

MONO RED WELDER STAX: 60 Cards


Welders:
4x Goblin Welder
4x Goblin Engineer

Lock Down:
3x Chalice of the Void
4x Smokestack
3x Lodestone Golem
3x Sphere of Resistance
3x Tangle Wire
1x Trinisphere

Utility:
3x Servo Schematic
1x Ichor Wellspring
1x Aeolipile
1x Meteor Golem
4x Faithless Looting

0cc: This deck needs free artifacts to not only to activate Opal but also to swap artifacts in and out of the graveyard with Welders. Keep in mind Chalice for zero bumps the 0cc slot up to 8 cards.
1x Tormod's Crypt
4x Mox Opal

4x Ancient Tomb
2x Cavern of Souls
4x City of Traitors
4x Great Furnace
6x Mountain

A few things to note after playing this deck.

Meteor Golem:
I only used Meteor Golem a few times. FYI, Meteor Golem is better than Spine of Ish Sah because it doesn't go back to your hand. You want it to keep going back to the yard so that you can recur it with Goblin Welder. Big expensive bombs such as this and Possessed Portal (which I chose not to run) just sit in your hand because they're too expensive to cast. Otherwise you need Faithless Looting or Goblin Engineer to get them in the yard. I hated drawing this card.

Aeolipile:
That being said, and I know it looks really weird here, I wanted to test Aeolipile for recurring weenie removal and it was actually really useful. Another card I wanted to test in this slot is Perilous Myr. Not sure which is better because I haven't tested Myr. The fact that I could actually cast Aeolipile made a huge difference compared to Meteor Golem. This came in handy on dozens of occasions. Plus it can tap to Tangle Wire and or be sacked to Smokestack. The downside is that when swapping this in and out with Welder (because it sacs to itself) is that when swapping it in and out with Welder you actually lose an artifact every other turn. The advantage of Perilous Myr is that A). It can block. And then do two more damage. B). And more importantly, it doesn't sac to itself. Thus you don't lose an artifact (permanent) every other turn but you NEED Welder to sac it.

Servo Schematic:
Okay this card is amazing here. It gives you extra permanents to not only tap to Tangle Wire but also for sacking to Smokestack. Plus with Welder recurring it you get TONS of tokens. Ichor Wellspring came in super handy here as well and was often tutored up with Goblin Engineer when I needed a card draw engine.

Karn:
You're probably wondering why Karn, the Great Creator isn't in this deck. After goldfishing and playing there is no room. It is too slow and there's already too many more important 4 drops. You really want to get your lock in as fast as possible.

Blood Moon:
This card should likely and or probably be in the deck but I wanted to test first just to see how the deck functions without it. Also, the deck is tight on space. Surprisingly I was actually kicking ass without it.

Chalice of the Void:
I know this is a nombo with Goblin Welder and Faithless Looting but after testing, it was one of my all star card choices. Not only can you drop it for zero (the deck needs zero drops for sacking to Welders) it obviously stops so many decks all by itself. The nombo apsect you can get around easily. A). When it is set at 1 you can cast Faithless, let it be countered and then flash it back. B). With Welder you either sac it to Goblin Engineer or push it through using Cavern of Souls' ability. This being said, I want to cut Tormod's Crypt for this 0cc slot.

Tangle Wire:
Another card that looks weird here. This card is crucial!! It won me a ton of games. The fact that it creates tempo and that you can constantly reset it's counters with Welder is amazing. Also other weird tricks with multiple Welders such as sacking it at the end of your opponent's turn so that you have untapped permanents during your next turn.

Crucible of Worlds with Wasteland. There's not a whole lot of room to fit this but I included a list below that I will be testing.

Two updates that I'm considering.

Welder Stax 1.5 (The Blood Moon build that needs at least one more Blood Moon) I just copy and pasted this from my Tapped Out account to save time. Sorry, it's not neatly organized like my first list. The only difference from the original list is:

-1x Tormod's Crypt +1x Chalice of the Void

-1x Meteor Golem +1x Blood Moon

-1x Sphere of Resistance +1x Cavern of Souls



Artifact (23)

1x Aeolipile
4x Chalice of the Void
1x Ichor Wellspring
4x Mox Opal
3x Servo Schematic
4x Smokestack
2x Sphere of Resistance
3x Tangle Wire
1x Trinisphere

Land (21)

4x Ancient Tomb
3x Cavern of Souls
4x City of Traitors
4x Great Furnace
6x Mountain

Creature (11)

4x Goblin Engineer
4x Goblin Welder
3x Lodestone Golem

Sorcery (4)

4x Faithless Looting

Enchantment (1)

1x Blood Moon



Welder Stax 1.75 (The Crucible of Worlds build) This list is a tweak from Welder 1.5 and boasts more land. The only difference is:


-1x Mox Opal +1x Crucible

-1x Cavern -1x Blood Moon +2x Wasteland


Here it is:
1x Aeolipile
4x Chalice of the Void
1x Crucible of Worlds
1x Ichor Wellspring
3x Mox Opal
3x Servo Schematic
4x Smokestack
2x Sphere of Resistance
3x Tangle Wire
1x Trinisphere

Land (22)

4x Ancient Tomb
2x Cavern of Souls
4x City of Traitors
4x Great Furnace
6x Mountain
2x Wasteland

Creature (11)

4x Goblin Engineer
4x Goblin Welder
3x Lodestone Golem

Sorcery (4)

4x Faithless Looting

I like this build for several reasons. I like that Crucible offers a soft lock with Wasteland, it recurs lands to continually sac to Smokestack and it allows me to run extra land such as Wastelands and the deck is hungry for land.

CONCLUSION:
I really feel that this deck is not only already there as it boasts incredible stats against top tier decks, it even has room for improvement. I'm not really sure which tweaks will make it better but it certainly has room for improvement. The main reason i feel that it does so good is the tempo advantage that you get from Welders. Spells that tax such as Sphere of Resistance, Lodestone and Trinisphere are one sided when I can get around them with Welder. Also, Servo Schematic makes this deck possible. The endless permanents it provides are the nail in the coffin when Smokestack or Tangle Wire hit the table and the fact that you can continually swap it in and out of play with Welders for an army makes it critical.

[FTW]

As nostalgic as Aeolipile makes me, Pyrite Spellbomb is a card and you're monored...

[Laser Brains]

Oh wow! I forgot about that card! Good call! Automatic inclusion. -1 Aeolipile +1 Pyrite Spellbomb So much better than Aeolipile. Thanks FTW! Actually, two main deck seems good.

[Laser Brains]

Oh, but the Chalice nombo. Hmmmmmmm... Well, if Chalice is in play you can cast it, let it get countered and then Welder it back in.

[non-inflammable]

Chalice of the Void:
The nombo apsect you can get around easily. A). When it is set at 1 you can cast Faithless, let it be countered and then flash it back.

CONCLUSION:
The endless permanents it provides are the nail in the coffin when Smokestack or Tangle Wire hit the table and the fact that you can continually swap it in and out of play with Welders for an army makes it critical.

i really like your deck and i thoroughly enjoy slamming chalice on "1".
smoke stack, tangle wire and anything that makes "stuff" to sac is sweet.

However, chalice on 1 will counter faithless looting every single time, even if you flash it back...

[Laser Brains]

i really like your deck and i thoroughly enjoy slamming chalice on "1".
smoke stack, tangle wire and anything that makes "stuff" to sac is sweet.

However, chalice on 1 will counter faithless looting every single time, even if you flash it back...

Can I not cast Faithless for it's flashback cost through Chalice? I thought you could do that since it's flashback cost R2 instead of R. If that's the case I'll have to come up with something else for a discard outlet. Anyone have suggestions?

[FTW]

On the stack, Faithless Looting always has cmc 1. Even if you paid 2R for it from Flashback. Or if you paid 2R to cast it through Trinisphere.

Unfortunately that means it doesn't work around Chalice like you want it to.

Daretti, Scrap Savant is a discard outlet and Welder in one, but slow. Your 4 cmc may be too crowded already.

Key to the City? It's only 2 cmc, doesn't require a creature to target, can be found with Engineer, and will draw you cards in the late game.

[Reeplcheep]

This deck looks pretty great. A few comments any brewer should consider:

The deck is very similar to painter. When does chalice/lodestone golem/Meteor golem shine compared to painter/blasts/grindstone?

BUG delver seems on paper that it would be hard for your deck between abrupt decay, daze, 6 forces, wasteland, and oko. Can you give examples of how the winning games went?

What is your plan for gy hate, oko or Karn? Is smokestack or golem beats good enough?

[Laser Brains]

This deck looks pretty great. A few comments any brewer should consider:

The deck is very similar to painter. When does chalice/lodestone golem/Meteor golem shine compared to painter/blasts/grindstone?

BUG delver seems on paper that it would be hard for your deck between abrupt decay, daze, 6 forces, wasteland, and oko. Can you give examples of how the winning games went?

What is your plan for gy hate, oko or Karn? Is smokestack or golem beats good enough?

I can't remember exactly how my winning games against BUG Delver went, but I did go about 50/50 against it. I just came out ahead in the final game. My Delver doesn't run Oko though so I didn't have to worry about that. I do remember Wasteland really hurting me on games that I did lose. As for battling Daze and FoWs I often had Sphere of Resistance or Trinisphere or at least they got countered. The deck is really heavy on threats.

As for grave hate I had Tormod's Crypt and Goblin Engineer to tutor it up which won me one game against Reanimator. One of the games I lost he dropped a turn one Grave Titan and there was no way of recovering. If I remember correctly that was one of the games that I actually used Meteor Golem. I did kill his Titan but he reanimated it and I died to the tokens. I haven't created a sideboard yet but there will for sure be a decent grave hate package in there.

I never went up against Karn but I'm not thinking he would be too much of a threat if I can keep my opponent off their mana. He is mana intensive.

As for going up against Oko I'm not sure. He seems like he could be a problem. I did face up with Teferi while playing against Sharkstill and he was annoying bounce stuff back to my hand. I believe those were games I won though.

[Laser Brains]

On the stack, Faithless Looting always has cmc 1. Even if you paid 2R for it from Flashback. Or if you paid 2R to cast it through Trinisphere.

Unfortunately that means it doesn't work around Chalice like you want it to.

Daretti, Scrap Savant is a discard outlet and Welder in one, but slow. Your 4 cmc may be too crowded already.

Key to the City? It's only 2 cmc, doesn't require a creature to target, can be found with Engineer, and will draw you cards in the late game.

Yeah, that is a bummer about Faithless. I toyed with Daretti, he was just too slow and I can only weld every other turn. And you're right, my 4 drop slot is too full.

Key to the City is a card that I toyed with in my head as well. Sadly it doesn't dig like Faithless. I might test it though.

Another one I need to test is Sliversmith. This not only is a discard outlet but also creates artifact tokens I can sac and tap and is probably my best bet.

Another is Smuggler's Copter. I had that in my original Welder and Tubbies deck but I never actually tested it.

There is also Cathartic Reunion and the like. Or I could also just run a nombo. Thoughts?

[Reeplcheep]

I can't remember exactly how my winning games against BUG Delver went, but I did go about 50/50 against it. I just came out ahead in the final game. My Delver doesn't run Oko though so I didn't have to worry about that. I do remember Wasteland really hurting me on games that I did lose. As for battling Daze and FoWs I often had Sphere of Resistance or Trinisphere or at least they got countered. The deck is really heavy on threats.

As for grave hate I had Tormod's Crypt and Goblin Engineer to tutor it up which won me one game against Reanimator. One of the games I lost he dropped a turn one Grave Titan and there was no way of recovering. If I remember correctly that was one of the games that I actually used Meteor Golem. I did kill his Titan but he reanimated it and I died to the tokens. I haven't created a sideboard yet but there will for sure be a decent grave hate package in there.

I never went up against Karn but I'm not thinking he would be too much of a threat if I can keep my opponent off their mana. He is mana intensive.

As for going up against Oko I'm not sure. He seems like he could be a problem. I did face up with Teferi while playing against Sharkstill and he was annoying bounce stuff back to my hand. I believe those were games I won though.

Thanks for the details. I meant more how do you deal with gy hate since you have 16 cards that are terrible with a rip in play (welder/engi/wellspring/schematic/faithless)

If you haven’t faced oko yet I’m not sure you are facing typical decks. At least online it’s the most played non land permanent.

[Laser Brains]

Thanks for the details. I meant more how do you deal with gy hate since you have 16 cards that are terrible with a rip in play (welder/engi/wellspring/schematic/faithless)

If you haven’t faced oko yet I’m not sure you are facing typical decks. At least online it’s the most played non land permanent.

Yeah, I have a feeling that Oko could be a serious problem. I will be doing more testing tomorrow and will likely be testing against Oko.

As far as grave hate we weren't running sideboards and most decks don't pack it in main deck so I didn't have to go up against it. Although, there were certainly games where I wasn't reliant on my graveyard that did win. Especially Burn where my Welders were bolted. So I'm not super worried about grave hate but it does hurt.

[KobeBryan]

// Bargain Welder

// 60 Maindeck
// 10 Artifact
3 Mox Opal
3 Lotus Petal
3 Lion's Eye Diamond
1 Ichor Wellspring

// 11 Creature
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
4 Goblin Welder
2 Griselbrand
1 Inkwell Leviathan
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Goblin Engineer

// 4 Instant
4 Entomb

// 15 Land
4 Great Furnace
4 Vault of Whispers
3 Badlands
1 Taiga
3 Tree of Tales

// 20 Sorcery
3 Exhume
4 Faithless Looting
4 Reanimate
3 Unburial Rites
4 Thoughtseize
2 Trash for Treasure


// 15 Sideboard
// 3 Artifact
SB: 1 Pithing Needle
SB: 1 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 1 Crucible of Worlds

// 4 Creature
SB: 1 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 1 Phyrexian Revoker
SB: 1 Sphinx of the Steel Wind
SB: 1 Meteor Golem

// 6 Instant
SB: 2 Pyroblast
SB: 4 Abrupt Decay

// 2 Sorcery
SB: 2 Duress




I always had a similar list. I always forget what that big black artifact card's name is. The one that lets you draw and pay life.

[Laser Brains]

// Bargain Welder

// 60 Maindeck
// 10 Artifact
3 Mox Opal
3 Lotus Petal
3 Lion's Eye Diamond
1 Ichor Wellspring

// 11 Creature
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
4 Goblin Welder
2 Griselbrand
1 Inkwell Leviathan
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Goblin Engineer

// 4 Instant
4 Entomb

// 15 Land
4 Great Furnace
4 Vault of Whispers
3 Badlands
1 Taiga
3 Tree of Tales

// 20 Sorcery
3 Exhume
4 Faithless Looting
4 Reanimate
3 Unburial Rites
4 Thoughtseize
2 Trash for Treasure


// 15 Sideboard
// 3 Artifact
SB: 1 Pithing Needle
SB: 1 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 1 Crucible of Worlds

// 4 Creature
SB: 1 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 1 Phyrexian Revoker
SB: 1 Sphinx of the Steel Wind
SB: 1 Meteor Golem

// 6 Instant
SB: 2 Pyroblast
SB: 4 Abrupt Decay

// 2 Sorcery
SB: 2 Duress




I always had a similar list. I always forget what that big black artifact card's name is. The one that lets you draw and pay life.

That deck looks fun! I think the card you are thinking of is Bolas's Citadel.

[KobeBryan]

// Bargain Welder

// 60 Maindeck
// 10 Artifact
3 Mox Opal
3 Lotus Petal
3 Lion's Eye Diamond
1 Bolas's Citadel

// 11 Creature
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
4 Goblin Welder
2 Griselbrand
1 Inkwell Leviathan
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Goblin Engineer

// 4 Instant
4 Entomb

// 15 Land
4 Great Furnace
4 Vault of Whispers
4 Badlands
3 Darksteel Citadel

// 20 Sorcery
3 Exhume
4 Faithless Looting
4 Reanimate
3 Unburial Rites
4 Thoughtseize
2 Trash for Treasure


// 15 Sideboard
// 5 Artifact
SB: 1 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 4 Grindstone

// 4 Creature
SB: 4 Painter's Servant

// 6 Instant
SB: 4 Pyroblast
SB: 2 Red Elemental Blast

[Laser Brains]

Okay, so I got to test a little more and tweaked the deck slightly. Here are the results:

Welder Stax vs. Sharkstill (Again we played this match up. One of the games I literally drew nothing but lands for like 7 turns so I almost feel that one of my loses was just do to mana screw.)
3 - 2

Welder Stax vs. Artifacts Blue (turns out Artifact Blue doesn't do well when I drop a turn one Chalice for zero, he scooped, but that only happened game 1.) (Game 2 I got Echoed with Hullbreacher on the table and lost) (Game 3 he got out a ton of zero cc shit and had a ton of permanents but was under a Smokestack, Trinisphere, Servo Schematic with Welder and I eventually over several turns forced him to sac all his permanents and I lock him out) (Game 4 similar to game 3, however we did both miss to check his Chalice at 1 and my Welder shouldn't have hit the table. Turns out I didn't use the Welder anyway as he blew it up with a Ballista that he grabbed from his Karn toolbox. We finished the game anyways. The games are either super short or incredibly long in this match up.)
3 - 1

Welder Stax vs. Goblins (We only had time for one game and I lost to a turn one Lackey, followed by a turn 2 Vial.) (I did have Chalice though but he went first, also I didn't draw a Sol Land so I actually had to wait till my turn 2 before I could drop it and by then I was overwhelmed with free goblins. We're gonna test that match up more in the future.)
0 - 1

Here is the list I was playing:

MONO RED WELDER STAX: 60 Cards

From my original list above:
+2 Pyrite Spellbomb
+1 Blood Moon
+4 Tormenting Voice

-1 Tormod's Crypt
-1 Aeolipile
-1 Meteor Golem
-4 Faithless


Welders:
4x Goblin Welder
4x Goblin Engineer

Lock Down:
3x Chalice of the Void
4x Smokestack
3x Lodestone Golem
3x Sphere of Resistance
3x Tangle Wire
1x Trinisphere
1x Blood Moon

Utility:
3x Servo Schematic
1x Ichor Wellspring
2x Pyrite Spellbomb
4x Tormenting Voice

0cc:
4x Mox Opal

4x Ancient Tomb
2x Cavern of Souls
4x City of Traitors
4x Great Furnace
6x Mountain

Firstly, Pyrite Spellbomb was nice to draw in my opening hand. My thoughts for running it even though there was the Chalice nombo was that I could cast it, let it get countered and then Weld it back into play. It's hard to say because I only drew it twice in all those games. One of the games it was stuck in my hand because of my Chalice and I had no Welder to get it back. The other game I got it out turn one and it was useful. I'll need to test this more, but I think these will stay in the deck. Not sure if running 1 or 2 is correct.

Blood Moon I only got out once but that was after I already made my opponent sac all of his permanents to Smokestack. The only land he had was a Snow Covered Island so it didn't matter. It seems to me that I've been seeing a lot of basics so I'm not sure if Blood Moon is as good as it used to be. Not only that it shuts down my sol lands. Sometimes that's a blessing though, especially with Ancient Tomb.

Tormenting Voice seemed okay. I did use it to get rid of useless multiples of lands for better quality cards so that was nice. I also appreciated not losing card disadvantage vs. Faithless so that was nice! It'll definitely stay in the deck for now.

One thing to point out is that my buddy said that this deck is incredibly frustrating to play against. I do think that it could be better with some more tuning and I welcome more suggestions.

Thanks!!

[KobeBryan]

Play thrill of possibility

[Laser Brains]

Instant speed. Yes, thank you! -4x Tormenting +4x Thrill of Possibility I will update this in my next list.

[FTW]

For how many matchups is the maindeck Chalice @ 1 good? Maybe you just want Chalice in the SB and then you don't have to worry as much about anti-synergy maindeck. Welder is the best card in your deck, while you only have 3 Chalice (suboptimal for turn 1), so maybe you want Welder and Faithless more than you want Chalice. It's strange playing Stax without Chalice to control cheap plays, but you don't want antisynergy or suboptimal cards either.

Another artifact to look at is 1-of Throne of Geth. You can get it with Engineer. It has a lot of synergy with Tangle Wire and Smokestack (and even Chalice), letting you either sac them with value if you don't need them or proliferate them to increase pressure on opponent's board. The servo tokens make good fodder too.

[Reeplcheep]

If you cut chalice I would be very tempted to put painter/grindstone/pyroblast in the deck, they just have so much synergy with 8 welders. Perhaps you just become painter with Stax pieces in the Karn & recruiter slots. Both of those cards are much worse from a tempo POV than Stax pieces. This gives you a niche for the deck (painter with a better delver and combo mu due to more prison less combo)

[Laser Brains]

@FTW
Concerning Chalice. Yeah, I've thought about giving it the axe. It's worth testing. Maybe I could cut it and open up slots for another Trinisphere, Sphere and Tangle Wire. I will say though that it certainly has been a champ when I do get it into play and has won me games. I'll test it.

Concerning Throne of Geth. That card I've never seen and it looks amazing. Both of it's abilities are useful. For one the proliferate would be handy! Two, more ways to sac artifacts would come in super handy, especially with a Welder on the table. I will definitely test it out. Often then are times where I wish I had a way to sac artifacts just so that I had an artifact in the yard to swap back in with Welder. If I added two to the deck it would almost (not quite but almost) fill another Welder role. It's funny that you brought that to my attention because I was eyeballing Contagion Engine and thinking that it looked pretty dang sweet in this deck aside from it's cc.

@Reepl
Concerning Painter / Grindstone. Yes, that is another option that should be tested. I actually had originally thought about this when I was looking at Painter lists and goldfishing with Welders and Tubbies. I've seen those lists and they look close to what I'm doing with the 8 Welder engine. If only Painter and Grindstone did more by themselves. It certainly should be tested though.

Thanks for the suggestions!!

[Laser Brains]

Okay, so I goldfished with Throne of Geth. It's best ability is that I can sac stuff like Servo Schematic or a Tangle Wire at the end of my opponents turn. I never encountered this while goldfishing but it seems that it could be useful with Smokestack by adding an additional counter then sacking it with Welder during opponents end step. The downside is that without a Welder to recur, lets say, Servo Schematic your run out of artifacts to sac to it. If I'm just running it to sac stuff Despotic Scepter and Claws of Gix are better. I need to play with it a bit more and/or actually test it in games.

Playing with Throne of Geth makes me want to try stuff like Everflowing Chalice, Contagion Clasp and Lux Cannon.

I'm torn by all of the different routes this deck can go. Play with Chalice? Don't play with Chalice? Play Throne of Geth?

Another thing I want to try, which is an obvious idea, is Crucible of Worlds which sorta helps in the same way Schematic does in that I can continually recur artifact lands to sac to Welder or even Smokestack. Plus with Wasteland I get a soft lock. The problem is that if I add it to the deck then I need to open a couple slots for Wasteland and sometimes I already feel like I get mana flooded.

A couple other cards I want to test are Devastating Dreams, Seize the Spoils and Scourglass.

[EDIT]: Seize the Spoils is a new card from Kaldheim which essentially says:
R2
Sorcery
As and additional cost to cast this spell, choose and discard a card. Draw 2 cards and create a Treasure token.

This could come in handy in that it creates another artifact for me to sac. Or I can use the mana in a pinch. This one has potential.


So I have a couple lists that want to try. Both without Chalice. The first includes Throne of Geth, the second includes Crucible of Worlds.


Welder Stax with Geth's Throne: 60 cards
Essentially with this build I cut Crucibles and 1 Mox Opal for Everflowing Chalice, Throne of Geth and Powder Keg so that there was more Throne synergy. I chose Powder Keg over Ratchet Bomb because I don't have to tap Powder Keg to put counters on it. That way I have more permanents to tap to Tangle Wire. The only drawback with Throne of Geth which I mentioned earlier is that without Welder / Servo engine you eventually are just losing artifacts to it.


Welders: 8
4x Goblin Engineer
4x Goblin Welder

Lock: 15
4x Smokestack
3x Lodestone Golem
2x Sphere of Resistance
4x Tangle Wire
2x Trinisphere

Tools: 13
2x Throne of Geth
3x Servo Schematic
1x Ichor Wellspring
1x Powder Keg
2x Pyrite Spellbomb
4x Faithless Looting

0cc: 4
1x Everflowing Chalice
3x Mox Opal

Lands: 20
4x Ancient Tomb
2x Cavern of Souls
4x City of Traitors
4x Great Furnace
6x Mountain


Welder Stax with Crucible: 60 cards
Crucible of Worlds: I feel like this build is leaning more in the right direction. I really do want to continually recur artifact lands to sac to Welder. That's card advantage! I also get a soft lock with Wasteland. This feels to me to more on the right track of where I should be going. Now I'm tempted to run Barbarian Ring. Nah.. We shall see how much I miss Chalice.

Welders: 8
4x Goblin Engineer
4x Goblin Welder

Lock: 15
4x Smokestack
3x Lodestone Golem
2x Sphere of Resistance
4x Tangle Wire
2x Trinisphere


Tools: 11
3x Servo Schematic
1x Ichor Wellspring
1x Crucible of Worlds
2x Pyrite Spellbomb
4x Faithless Looting

0cc: 4
4x Mox Opal

Lands: 22
4x Ancient Tomb
2x Cavern of Souls
4x City of Traitors
2x Wasteland
4x Great Furnace
6x Mountain

Thoughts?

[Laser Brains]

So I did a revamp of the deck finally tested it against Snowko. We played a total of 7 games and Welder Stax came out on top although one of the games I won almost shouldn't count because my opponent never drew any more land other than the two in his opening hand so he scooped after I dropped Tangle Wire and Trinisphere. In the end the score was 4-3.

Game 1: I was able to quickly set up Stax pieces and locked him out fairly early.

Game 2: This was a repeat of the first game.

Game 3: My opponent was getting frustrated after not top decking any more lands other than his initial 2 that he drew and Stax pieces were mounting up. He scooped.

Game 4: He finally was able to get out Oko and this game was long. Can't remember everything that happened but I wasn't able to establish the lock fast enough and he had too many permanents (land and Astrolabes) and I wasn't able to tie up his mana. I think he ended up casting Uro a few times and that extra land drop per turn allowed him to establish board control and Oko shut me down. Although I did almost deck him.

Game 5: This game was just like the last.

Game 6: Another game where I drew the right pieces. There were too many threats for his counters and Abrupt Decays and I locked him down within five or six turns.

Game 7: He won this game. It looked a lot like games 3 and 4. This one I scooped. We could have played it out but he had to go to work. It was looking grim though.


This new build of the deck feels stronger and I eliminated the Chalice "nombo" cutting it to the sb and replacing with essentially +2 Trinisphere and +2 Ensnaring Bridge. Bridges were a great addition. I feel this is starting look a lot like the "correct" build of the deck. Here's the new list:


Welders: 8
4x Goblin Welder
4x Goblin Engineer

Lock Down: 19
4x Smokestack
3x Lodestone Golem
3x Sphere of Resistance
4x Tangle Wire
3x Trinisphere
2x Ensnaring Bridge

Utility: 9
3x Servo Schematic
1x Ichor Wellspring
1x Pyrite Spellbomb
4x Faithless Looting

Mana: 24
4x Mox Opal
4x Ancient Tomb
2x Cavern of Souls
4x City of Traitors
4x Great Furnace
6x Mountain

Sideboard: 15
3x Anger of the Gods
2x Cavern of Souls
3x Chalice of the Void
2x Stingscourger
1x Thorn of Amethyst
3x Tormod's Crypt
1x Tsabo's Web


Over all I am very pleased with this deck's performance. It shows resilience to almost every deck I've played it against in the gauntlet, and it's a blast to play!

I'll get more games in at a later date if anyone is interested.

[Airwave]

So I did a revamp of the deck finally tested it against Snowko. We played a total of 7 games and Welder Stax came out on top although one of the games I won almost shouldn't count because my opponent never drew any more land other than the two in his opening hand so he scooped after I dropped Tangle Wire and Trinisphere. In the end the score was 4-3.

Game 1: I was able to quickly set up Stax pieces and locked him out fairly early.

Game 2: This was a repeat of the first game.

Game 3: My opponent was getting frustrated after not top decking any more lands other than his initial 2 that he drew and Stax pieces were mounting up. He scooped.

Game 4: He finally was able to get out Oko and this game was long. Can't remember everything that happened but I wasn't able to establish the lock fast enough and he had too many permanents (land and Astrolabes) and I wasn't able to tie up his mana. I think he ended up casting Uro a few times and that extra land drop per turn allowed him to establish board control and Oko shut me down. Although I did almost deck him.

Game 5: This game was just like the last.

Game 6: Another game where I drew the right pieces. There were too many threats for his counters and Abrupt Decays and I locked him down within five or six turns.

Game 7: He won this game. It looked a lot like games 3 and 4. This one I scooped. We could have played it out but he had to go to work. It was looking grim though.


This new build of the deck feels stronger and I eliminated the Chalice "nombo" cutting it to the sb and replacing with essentially +2 Trinisphere and +2 Ensnaring Bridge. Bridges were a great addition. I feel this is starting look a lot like the "correct" build of the deck. Here's the new list:


Welders: 8
4x Goblin Welder
4x Goblin Engineer

Lock Down: 19
4x Smokestack
3x Lodestone Golem
3x Sphere of Resistance
4x Tangle Wire
3x Trinisphere
2x Ensnaring Bridge

Utility: 9
3x Servo Schematic
1x Ichor Wellspring
1x Pyrite Spellbomb
4x Faithless Looting

Mana: 24
4x Mox Opal
4x Ancient Tomb
2x Cavern of Souls
4x City of Traitors
4x Great Furnace
6x Mountain

Sideboard: 15
3x Anger of the Gods
2x Cavern of Souls
3x Chalice of the Void
2x Stingscourger
1x Thorn of Amethyst
3x Tormod's Crypt
1x Tsabo's Web


Over all I am very pleased with this deck's performance. It shows resilience to almost every deck I've played it against in the gauntlet, and it's a blast to play!

I'll get more games in at a later date if anyone is interested.

Great work, seems lots of fun to play! :)

Two cards to consider:

Sudden Demise to keep your welders alive.
Myr Battlesphere to maximize use on welders/looting/smokestack

[Laser Brains]

Thank you. Yes, this deck is actually really good and is a ton of fun to play.

Sudden Demise looks amazing! That should definitely be in the sb. Probably in the Anger of the Gods slot. Thank you Airwave!

The sideboard does have room for improvement. I have listed above 2x Cavern of Souls on the side, that was supposed to be 2x Wasteland. I didn't catch that when I copy and pasted from my deck builder. Although, I think I could probably cut those as well. Tsabo's Web could be bumped up to 2-3x. It is particularly good against Vial based decks such as D&T, Esper Vial and Goblins. In the event it's dead or you've drawn multiple copies you can keep swapping it in and out with Welders for a draw engine. Like a less powerful Ichor Wellspring.

I did consider Myr Battlesphere. This could be main or on the side itself. The problem I have with it is that it's difficult to hard cast and only Goblin Welder (not Goblin Engineer) can pull it from the yard. This was the same reason I'm not running Sundering Titan, Meteor Golem, Contagion Engine and Possessed Portal. I really only tested Meteor Golem but it always got stuck in my hand. Myr Battlesphere is bad ass though.

Other cards I considered, some require a color splash:
Root Maze fetchland hate, Tangle Wire synergies
Emry, Lurker of the Loch
Contagion Clasp
Lesser Masticore discard outlet, persist
Masticore discard outlet, removal
Crucible of Worlds but requires Wasteland slots
Scourglass mass removal
Semblance Anvil
Trading Post does every single thing I want, but I'm already running enough 4 drops
Filigree Familiar in place maybe of Ichor Wellspring
Perilous Myr Welder swapping shenanigans
Buried Ruin
Seize the Spoils
Mind Stone
Inventors' Fair
Karakas

[Laser Brains]

Okay, so I'm bringing this thread back. This deck has gotten muuuuuch better and only with some minor tweaks. Modern Horizons 2 hasn't brought a lot to the table but the deck has evolved quite a bit. I've done a ton of testing and have fleshed out what works and what hasn't worked. I honestly think this deck has some legs. I'm not sure how the meta is going to evolve now that we have a bunch of new cards thanks to MH2, but it is really strong right now. Here's the deck so far:

Welder Stax: 2.0

Welders: 8
4x Goblin Welder
4x Goblin Engineer

Lock Down: 19
4x Smokestack
4x Lodestone Golem
4x Tangle Wire
3x Trinisphere
2x Winter Orb
2x Ensnaring Bridge

Utility: 9
2x Servo Schematic
1x Ichor Wellspring
1x Pyrite Spellbomb
1x The Underworld Cookbook
4x Faithless Looting

Mana: 24
4x Mox Opal
4x Ancient Tomb
2x Cavern of Souls
4x City of Traitors
4x Great Furnace
6x Mountain

Sideboard: 15 (sb can use some work)
2x Anger of the Gods
1x Hangarback Walker
2x Wasteland
3x Chalice of the Void
2x Stingscourger
1x Thorn of Amethyst
3x Tormod's Crypt
1x Tsabo's Web

First thing you will likely address is that you'll say it needs Karn, the Great Creator. No it doesn't. It's too slow. I have recently been testing with this guy. Seems like a no brainer here, but he's too damn slow. I had him in what I thought were my flex slots. I was running two main with a sweet silver bullet sideboard. All the goodies were there, but by the time he hits the table and I grab my silver bullet I'm a turn behind a turn and I die. These are situations where I'd much rather have drawn a lock piece like Winter Orb, Tangle Wire etc..

Another card I've tested a bunch since I started toying around with this deck is Sphere of Resistance. This card sucks in this deck. Lodestone, even though he's more expensive to cast, doesn't slow me down like Sphere does. So Sphere got the axe in favor +1 Lodestone and +2 Winter Orb.

Winter Orb is now main deck and is so much better than Sphere. Simply getting rid of Sphere for Winter Orb has made a gigantic difference in the deck's performance. Especially combined with taxing lock pieces such as Lodestone and Trinisphere. And in particular with Tangle Wire. Tapping out your opponent's lands while they're being taxed is aggravating for your opponent, especially since they can only untap 1 land per turn. Don't worry about the anti synergy by not wanting to turn off your Winter Orb or Trinisphere with TW's ability. You'll have plenty of other stuff to tap to it. Even if you don't, it literally buys you turns and creates tempo.

The Underworld Cookbook is exactly what I was looking for in the flex slot. If you read my earlier posts you'll see that I was looking for a decent artifact (it's cheap to cast thus helping activate Opals) that will help put stuff into my yard for me to Welder back out. This card does that and also gives me another artifact (food) in which I can tap to TW, sac to Smokestack or sac to Welders for the artifact I discarded to it. [EDIT] That last part alone makes it worth. I can literally discard a lock piece, create a token and then sac the token to Welder to grab the lock piece I discarded. I'm almost looking to cut something just so I can run 2-3 main.

Not only that, I can sac the Foods for life gain which is actually very relevant, especially in aggro/tempo match ups. I haven't encountered this yet, but I can actually use it's secondary ability to recur my welders and then weld it back in again.

I've had some great results with this deck and would love to take this to a big event and see how it stacks up. It's a hard one for me to test though because it really pisses off my opponent (my main test/play buddy) and he gets tired of playing against it.

A list of cards that I've toyed with: Gadrak, the Crown-Scourge I haven't tested yet but looks really strong if you wanted to add a clock. Although conditional, Ragavan looks pretty sweet too.

1x Ragavan, Nimble Pilferer
1x Breya's Apprentice
1x Filigree Familiar
1x Gadrak, the Crown-Scourge
1x Gleaming Barrier
1x Goblin Rabblemaster
1x Goldspan Dragon
1x Lesser Masticore
1x Masticore
1x Perilous Myr
1x Slag Strider
1x Crucible of Worlds
1x Everflowing Chalice
1x Grim Monolith
1x Lux Cannon
1x Scourglass
1x Semblance Anvil
1x Trading Post
1x Treasure Map
1x Devastating Dreams
1x Pirate's Pillage
1x Seize the Spoils
1x Strike it Rich
1x Smashing Success
1x Buried Ruin

[Laser Brains]

Also, almost forgot, Urza's Saga looks really good in this list as well.