[Brainstorming] Rogue Stompy / Steal Stompy

[Barook]

With Oko banned, this idea seems more feasible now - a Stompy deck based around those two cards:

Opposition Agent
Varragoth, Bloodsky Sire

Agent is good on its own while Varragoth might be decent as well - and it can even tutor up Agent on its own. The idea is the lock the opponent out from searching while drawing their best cards to beat them in addition to your own cards. Question is, where to go from there?

Maralen of the Mornsong is an obvious tutor target to set up the lock with Agent. Karakas can do shenanigans with both Malaren and Varragoth (to save it from suicide attacks while still tutoring up stuff).

Both core cards are rogues, so going into that direction might be worthy exploring as well. Cavern, and cards like Bitterblossom + equipment, Earwig Squad or even the new Nighthawk Scavenger. Fill up potential free slots with utility creatures like Murderous Rider and Plague Engineer. Running Bitterblossom would also open up the combo with Contamination - whether it's a one-off tutor target or better supported with Ophiomancer (no rogue, though) in addition to Bitterblossom to use it as some kind of pseudo-Bloodmoon.

Another direction could be going for more search jamming in combination with cards like Wishclaw and that 1 mana tutor that searches for both players to abuse Agent more.

The rogue idea with a bunch of lifegain cards (Rider, Scavenger, equipment) to compensate for the various sources of life loss sounds the most interesting to me. Thoughts?

[Memories of the Time]

I think that this could be an interesting take over other Mono B builds we've seen.
As you said the main point is to understand what other cards should complete the deck outside the core of Cotv/Agent/Sire/Engineer in 4x (+ trini?)+1 maralen
Bitterblossom+equip can be interesting, at the same time without Astrolabe Contamination can be viable again...

[Reeplcheep]

With repeatable top deck tutors i would be very tempted to play 1 Entreat the Dead. It makes vaggaroth a bomb by itself.

[Reeplcheep]

I second the rogue tribal option. Does Earwig squad work with opposition agent?


Oona’s Blackguard
Stinkdrinker Banneret
Are decent lords

Earwig Squad
Nighthawk Scavenger
Cloak and Dagger
Bitterblossom
Noggin whack
Utility

Audacious Thief
Glint-Sleeve Siphoner
Blackbloom Rogue
On tribe smoothing/CA

Notion thief
Anowon, the ruin thief
Thieving Skydiver
True Name Nemesis
Cold-eye selfie
Ghostly pilferer
Soaring Thought-Thief
Robber of the Rich
Brazen Borrower
Powerful splashes.

Merfolk and turbo muxus have shown that cavern in stompy can be quite strong.

Cloak and Dagger seems particularly good as a way to protect your combo pieces that works well with sol lands. T1 sol land cloak, they ponder, cavern agent should be gg vs basically most fair decks.

Even without the shroud being relevant it’s still 2 colourless mana for 2 power which ain’t the worst. Really good with cold eye selkie too or the other “discount bin dark confidants”

[Barook]

Earwig Squad doesn't work with Agent (I even initially listed it as combo) since you're the one doing the searching. Agent only triggers if your opponent does the search. Varragoth is different since it forces target player to search, hence the combo working.

Cloak and Dagger really sounds interesting. T1 C&D into T2 uncounterable Agent via Cavern is potentially backbreaking for certain decks. An untargetable Varragoth for repeated tutoring doesn't sound too shabby, either. Shroud doesn't go well with an equipment plan, though.

Edit: Scavenger + C&T seems pretty strong as well. It becomes at least a 3/3 lifelinking evasive beater, probably much higher, depending on the opponent. Being untouchable seems like a major upgrade to it.

[Reeplcheep]

The attaching doesn’t target, so I believe multiple cloaks should be able to attach to the same new rogue. Other equipment will not be good though correct.

Because of how good cavern + cloak is with a lock piece I would be VERY tempted to splash notion thief and anowon off of 4 cavern 4 Darkwater Catacombs. These old filter lands are not well know but very helpful for allied 2 colour stompy decks. With it 2UB is not too hard, but I won’t splash anything more U intensive than that.

Re:edit 1BB is a bit hard to play in stompy without urborg, which you can’t play with agent... if you can make the mana work it looks strong.

[Reeplcheep]

The more I think about it, the stronger the cavern plus cloak plan seems. Blackboom rogue could be an uncounterable 7/3 shroud menace, in your land slots!!!

[Barook]

The more I think about it, the stronger the cavern plus cloak plan seems. Blackboom rogue could be an uncounterable 7/3 shroud menace, in your land slots!!!
Good finds!

Pelakka Predation // Pelakka Caverns sees play in Curse Stompy, so I can definitely see Blackbloom Rogue doing some work here, too. Maybe even run both cards for more consistency?

[Reeplcheep]

I think you play 4 rogue 0 predation. My expensive cards immediately recoup the lost tempo if they resolve, but in this more aggro deck you’d rather just have another threat.

Draft list:

4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Darkwater Catacombs
3 Underground Sea
1 Swamp

4 Blackbloom Rogue
4 Chrome Mox

4 Chalice of the Void
4 Cloak and Dagger
4 Oona‘s Blackguard
2 Stinkdrinker Bandit
2 Nighthawk Scavenger
4 Opposition Agent
4 Vaggaroth, Bloodsky Sire
4 Notion Thief
4 Anowon, the ruin thief
1 Entreat the Dead


Notes:

Lower curve and many useful 2 drops: cut some of the fast mana.
Packed a bunch of lords into the deck rather than running more comboes since the deck has no selection.
Maxed out on the most devestating lockpieces regardless of curve.

[Barook]

I'm not sold on Darkwater Catacombs - lands that can't produce mana on their own makes you more susceptible to mana denial.

Personally, I'm leaning towards a Mono-B build that might run Dark Ritual in addition to Chrome Mox.

[Reeplcheep]

I'm not sold on Darkwater Catacombs - lands that can't produce mana on their own makes you more susceptible to mana denial.

Personally, I'm leaning towards a Mono-B build that might run Dark Ritual in addition to Chrome Mox.

The idea is that in stompy the downsides are irrelevant. You aren’t casting cards on 1 mana anyways & you have so many colourless sources you will never have to convert relevant colours into blue when you don’t want to.

It’s a similar idea to dimir signet in tezzerator. I think t2/t3 protected notion thief is something no other deck can do and sounds incredibly powerful. I had some success with it in the past trying to make yorion curses work.

It’s bad in doubles if you have no chrome mox, but urborg, tomb of Yawgmoth is even worse there. You could replace it with more duals but that makes your double sol land hands worse. Mono B with dark ritual lets you run 3 ball, more scavenger or bitterblossom but you lose the best lord and disruption.

[FTW]

It may not be necessary to splash blue at all. The mana is smoother in monoblack.

Other useful monoblack Rogues that haven't been listed yet

//Black:
Nezumi Shortfang
Tinybones, Trinket Thief
Faerie Macabre
Gonti, Lord of Luxury
Rankle, Master of Pranks

For the blue splash, 1-of Zareth San, the Trickster could be very powerful. Ninjitsu Rogue that can steal any permanent type: Karn, Batterskull, Jace, Griselbrand... good if you're already playing discard and mill effects.

Tinybones could be a good draw engine next to other discard rogues like Oona's Blackguard, Rankle and Nezumi. Nezumi can activate on the opponent's turn to trigger a 2nd draw.

Earwig Squad seems very strong in the SB vs decks like Doomsday and TES, or even UWx control decks with few win conditions.

Also if you're playing Varragoth and Opposition Agent, the deck should really have 1 Maralen of the Mornsong for the possible tutorable lock.


Edit:
Monoblack Shared Fate.dec


//Lands: 20
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
8 Snow-Covered Swamp
1 Castle Locthwain

//Artifacts: 11
4 Chrome Mox
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Cloak and Dagger

//Rogues: 28
4 Oona's Blackguard
2 Stinkdrinker Bandit
2 Nezumi Shortfang
1 Tinybones, Trinket Thief
1 Bitterblossom
4 Blackbloom Rogue
4 Opposition Agent
4 Varragoth, Bloodsky Sire
3 Gonti, Lord of Luxury
3 Rankle, Master of Pranks

//Lol: 1
1 Maralen of the Mornsong

//Draft Sideboard: 15
4 Leyline of the Void
3 Trinisphere
3 Earwig Squad
3 Plague Engineer
2 Soul Shatter



Another possibility is to run Contamination + Bitterblossom for ultimate prison.

[Barook]

Rankle is an interesting removal engine with Bitterblossom. Blackguard also seems really good with Bitterblossom, but gets rekt by Plague Engineer.

With that many 4-drop, wouldn't running Dark Ritual be almost mandatory to run (even with the anti-synergy with Chalice @1)?

Tinybones would go well with Liliana of the Veil.

With that many legendary creatures, wouldn't Karakas become attractive as a 1-of/tutor target? Aside from saving Varragoth from lethal combat, it's also a CA engine with Gonti - fitting the steal theme is just an added bonus.

[FTW]

Rankle is an interesting removal engine with Bitterblossom.

Yeah Rankle has many useful interactions
Rankle + Bitterblossom = board control
Rankle + Tinybones = draw engine (each player discards, then you EOT draw; or each player draws & discards, then you EOT draw)
Rankle + Nezumi/Oona = draw engine (each player draws, then make opponent discard)

Bitterblossom also combos well with Cloak, making a 3/1 flying shroud token for free.

Contamination lock is possible, either MD or out of the SB.


With that many 4-drop, wouldn't running Dark Ritual be almost mandatory to run (even with the anti-synergy with Chalice @1)?

My list only has 6 4-drops. 31 of 40 nonland permanents are castable as early as turn 1 off Sol Land + Mox. 24 lands including Blackbloom, so hitting 4 mana should not be hard.

Reepl's version above has 2 more 4-drops and 23 lands with Blackbloom, still plenty of mana. Most stompy decks have 8-10 cards at 4+ mana. Curses runs Dark Ritual but also a much higher curve. There should be enough low cmc Rogues that Ritual isn't needed.

Instead of Dark Ritual, this deck might want 4 Thorn of Amethyst as a better turn 1 play off Sol Lands without Mox.



With that many legendary creatures, wouldn't Karakas become attractive as a 1-of/tutor target? Aside from saving Varragoth from lethal combat, it's also a CA engine with Gonti - fitting the steal theme is just an added bonus.

1 Karakas seems good. I tried to cram in a lot of Swamps to support Castle, but without Castle it's much easier to find space for utility lands. The point of tension is that you probably don't want Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth so that OP Agent properly screws their fetchlands, which makes it's hard to produce BB for non-Rogues.

[Reeplcheep]

In my opinion tiny bones doesn’t fit well in a tribal or stompy deck. You don’t have enough discard or selection to find it. Targeted discard is fine, but Untargeted discard is trash in stompy. It’s tempo negative, and you already are trying to make them have dead cards in hand. If you agent, then nenzumi, activate and they discard a fetch you probably lost.

Yah it can be a draw engine sometimes, but is it more reliable than glint sleeve which is self-contained, and an evasive clock with stuff like Blackguard?

I agree that we have so many 2 drops and 0 5 drops that we need less fast mana than other stompy decks.

Bitterblossom is so good with Oona it could be played. Contamination and lords are antithetical, you need to decide if this is a aggro deck with disruption or a prison deck.

The 1 of Zarath seems good. Borrower is on tribe removal but the double UU is really sketchy.

An alternative to cities is that we could play a few 1 drops like turbo muxus and rely on cavern to take advantage of them. This lets us play field of ruin (great combo with agent) and basics.

[Barook]

An alternative to cities is that we could play a few 1 drops like turbo muxus and rely on cavern to take advantage of them. This lets us play field of ruin (great combo with agent) and basics.
1-drop Rogues (https://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?action=advanced&cmc=+=[1]&color=+[B]&subtype=+[%22Rogue%22])

Anti-synergy with Chalice @1 without Cavern aside, Thieves' Guild Enforcer would probably be the most interesting out of the bunch. It can be a 3/1 surprise blocker/pseudo-hasty attacker (when played EoT) with C&D and it would also help enable both Blackbloom Rogue and Nighthawk Scavenger. Combined with the discard from Oona's Blackguard, this should give use plenty of ways to feed the GY.

Edit: Since we're in the tribal theme, we might at least have a look at Pyre of Heroes. Dunno if it would be worth it here, though.

[heyoka]

the a route of changeling outcasts can be a logic fit, if we are looking at one drops. ?
consistent prowling stuff in with unblockable seems good

[FTW]

An alternative to cities is that we could play a few 1 drops like turbo muxus and rely on cavern to take advantage of them. This lets us play field of ruin (great combo with agent) and basics.

Interesting. What does Turbo Muxus look like? I have a Goblins build that probably qualifies as Turbo Muxus, so I might know what you're talking about, but it would help to see another decklist and then compare that to how this Rogue deck could go.

Edit: Do you mean running 1-drops, Vial, Cavern but also Chrome Mox acceleration? Does it include Chalice or do you mean cutting Chalice for more aggro?

[Reeplcheep]

https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/mtgo-standings/legacy-league-2021-02-20#bargahof_-

[FTW]

Ah I see. Tomb + Mox acceleration with Chalice, no Vial, Cavern and some 1 drops. I had a similar one without Tomb, but with the full 8 Lackeys and Chalice in the SB. Tomb and MD Chalice is even more turbo, but less Muxus.

I don't think there are any 1 drops worth playing in Rogues.

The big difference with Goblins is Goblin Lackey is the most dangerous card in the deck, threatening to accelerate you by 4-10 mana, so it's worth playing the anti-synergy to have the possibility to turbo out Muxus. Actually, including the Muxus trigger, a single Lackey connection can yield something like 15 mana and a board state that threatens to win on turn 3. Rogues doesn't have anything on that power level on 1 mana. Why not play more Sol Lands and get to run Trinisphere or Thorn of Amethyst? If you can't be explosive, slow other decks down. That works for Soldier Stompy.

[FTW]

With Enforcer and a mill-discard aggro theme


//Lands: 20
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
8 Swamp
1 Castle Locthwain

//Artifacts: 12
4 Chrome Mox
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Thorn of Amethyst

//Rogues: 27
4 Thieves' Guild Enforcer
4 Oona's Blackguard
1 Bitterblossom
4 Blackbloom Rogue
4 Nighthawk Scavenger
4 Opposition Agent
3 Varragoth, Bloodsky Sire
3 Gonti, Lord of Luxury

//Other: 1
1 Maralen of the Mornsong

//Sideboard: 15
1 Surgical Extraction
3 Faerie Macabre
3 Plague Engineer
3 Earwig Squad
2 Cloak and Dagger
2 Soul Shatter
1 Entreat the Dead


Edit: Nevermind, I playtested this and it's pretty bad.

The disruption suite was the best part, because otherwise the Rogue engine is just too slow and not explosive enough to compete with Legacy combo, aggro and aggro-control. 4x Chalice and 4x Thorn or 3sphere seems required.

I agree with Reeplcheep, the untargetted discard is bad too.

Some of the pump effects are win-more. They're not explosive enough to race fast Legacy clocks, yet they also don't help interact with the board state enough. I would play Cloak SB to protect pieces against targetted removal, but not MD.

Bitterblossom is too slow outside control MUs.

The 4 drops are also a bit slow.

Enforcer is no Goblin Lackey, but it did help have more interaction earlier and more "lord" synergy effects.

The BB costs are hard, but if any are played Nighthawk Scavenger is worth it.

Edited list above

[Reeplcheep]

Yah I agree that our 1 drops aren’t impressive. The weird thing is we have tons of good 2 drops so we don’t need a ton of fast mana...

Maybe we should try gemstone caverns over dark ritual? It’s sort of chrome mox 5-6. Alternatively we could run field of ruin/wasteland to disrupt once we have 3 mana.

What disruption was needed? That’s why I wanted to splash blue since notion thief in early turns just wrecks most decks. Thorn seems like the best option otherwise.

Borrower also gives more interaction.

[FTW]

Maybe we should try gemstone caverns over dark ritual? It’s sort of chrome mox 5-6. Alternatively we could run field of ruin/wasteland to disrupt once we have 3 mana.

It's just so bad OTP. Too many colorless sources make it too hard to cast the BB guys. Maybe SB?



What disruption was needed? That’s why I wanted to splash blue since notion thief in early turns just wrecks most decks. Thorn seems like the best option otherwise.

T1 lockpiece. Otherwise the deck just falls too far behind by the time it plays its 4-drop or gets to tutor, especially vs a deck like Delver where Wasteland + Daze will keep you off 4 mana disruption or Bolt can answer you for 1 mana.

The problem is the early Rogues (Enforcer, Oona, Bitterblossom, Blackbloom) can be ignored for a while. It takes a few turns before their interaction with the game state really matters, so they are bad tempo. Meanwhile the opponent gets to goldfish the first few turns. That's crippling vs any fast decks. Rogues needs more early plays that are interactive. Lock pieces help slow down the game. Maybe even just Eliminate.

In Turbo Muxus, the early plays like Lackey/WInstigator are the opposite. They're the most tempo you can get from a T1 body, asking "answer me now or you fall far behind". There's just no early Rogue with equivalent pressure, so the first play should be slowing them down.

Dark Ritual might be better than Enforcer just to threaten more T1 Agent, maybe 3sphere.

[Reeplcheep]

Dark ritual plays poorly with cavern unfortunately. Cut all the non-disruptive lords for max disruption, which means dropping mill sub theme.

Draft list:

4 Ancient Tomb
2 City of Traitors
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Darkwater Catacombs
4 Underground Sea
1 Swamp

4 Blackbloom Rogue
4 Chrome Mox
2 Lotus Petal

4 Chalice of the Void
2 Cloak and Dagger
4 Thorn of Amethyst
4 Oona‘s Blackguard
4 Opposition Agent
4 Vaggaroth, Bloodsky Sire
4 Notion Thief
4 Anowon, the ruin thief
1 Entreat the Dead


This list should t1 thorn or chalice most games, or cloak into uncounterable agent/thief. Deck should have lots of late game gas. Basically every card is a must answer, making the cloak mdable as a 2 of imo.

Petals over drit to help with splash and to not require cutting cavern. Kept anowon and Blackguard because they have ca in addition to being lords. Entreat is to make top deck vaggaroth a bomb by himself. Cut all BB guys for UB guys, can’t run both (darkwater catacombs vs urborg)

Land base is 6 sol lands, 13 untapped coloured lands, 4 utility lands, 6 acceleration, ~18 blue sources. This was my best guess at a manabase for a lower to the ground stompy list.

[FTW]

Lotus Petal's a good idea for Moxes 5-6.

The max disruption plan looks good. I ended up cutting my Stinkdrinkers as well, too winmore as uninteractive lords that require a winning board state. MD Cloak seems fine as a way to protect key pieces and add pressure, now that each creature is more impactful.

I wonder if Notion Thief is too slow to matter MD. Against non-Brainstorm decks, it has no text. Against Brainstorm decks, if you don't resolve a lockpiece then Thief comes down a bit too slow (or dies too easily or gets prevented by Wasteland), and if you do have Chalice/Thorn then there's anti-synergy because there are fewer cantrips to prey on. I was finding my 4 drops slow and didn't want too many, especially when you need to Boast Varragoth or face mana denial.

4 Catacombs also seems like asking to lose to Wasteland. It can fix UB off Tomb/City, but if they kill your Tomb then you get 2-for-1d and have no mana. Catacombs seems too goldfishy. A regular UB dual seems better, at least tapping for mana on its own.

Without Catacombs, I already had multiple games with awkward sequences vs Wasteland. E.g. you have City + colored nonbasic (Caverns, Blackbloom). They Waste your colored source. Your only colored source in hand is Blackbloom but it ETB tapped, so to get colored mana you have to sacrifice City without using it... This is already a vulnerability in the manabase, and adding Catacombs makes the Wasteland 2-for-1 potential even worse.

[Reeplcheep]

Lotus Petal's a good idea for Moxes 5-6.

The max disruption plan looks good. I ended up cutting my Stinkdrinkers as well, too winmore as uninteractive lords that require a winning board state.

I wonder if Notion Thief is too slow to matter MD. Against non-Brainstorm decks, it has no text. Against Brainstorm decks, if you don't resolve a lockpiece then Thief comes down a bit too slow (or dies too easily or gets prevented by Wasteland), and if you do have Chalice/Thorn then there's anti-synergy because there are fewer cantrips to prey on. I was finding my 4 drops slow and didn't want too many, especially when you need to Boast Varragoth or face mana denial.

4 Catacombs also seems like asking to lose to Wasteland. It can fix UB off Tomb/City, but if they kill your Tomb then you get 2-for-1d and have no mana. Catacombs seems too goldfishy. A regular UB dual seems better, at least tapping for mana on its own.

Without Catacombs, I already had multiple games with awkward sequences vs Wasteland. E.g. you have City + colored nonbasic (Caverns, Blackbloom). They Waste your colored source. Your only colored source in hand is Blackbloom but it ETB tapped, so to get colored mana you have to sacrifice City without using it... This is already a vulnerability in the manabase, and adding Catacombs makes the Wasteland 2-for-1 potential even worse.

When are you casting anything in this deck off of just an usea? You can use mana from your moxen to filter. Perhaps cut to 3 just to lower the chances of drawing 2? Catacombs is very important if you have 8 colourless lands (lets you cast notion thief off city plus tomb) but perhaps with only 6 it’s less important. We could consider going to a fetch mana base to protect from wasteland.


Conservative 2c rogues: 4 Tomb 2 city 3 Sea 1 Swamp 1 Island 4 delta 4 cavern
6 sol lands ~18 untapped sources of each colour ~7 ways to get basics

Edit: on the slowness of notion thief: narset is slower out of urza decks and is fine disruption there. Perhaps the nonbo with chalice thing is an argument to running only thorn and 3ball not chalice?

[FTW]

That manabase looks a lot smoother vs an interactive meta. And I expect a lot of Wasteland now that Astrolabe is banned.

We should test that first and see if it's good enough to cast the UB Rogues. Mox imprinting a gold card fixes both colors. Cavern fixes both colors. Add Catacombs back if the deck struggles with UB, but it may not be needed with all the ramp already present.

[Reeplcheep]

Do you think this mana base could support 1UU? TNN and borrower could be strong pickups.

[FTW]

Do you think this mana base could support 1UU? TNN and borrower could be strong pickups.

Maybe. Worth testing. TNN is very strong with Cloak and Oona's Blackguard. It also makes prowling Earwig Squad even easier out of the board.


Edit: on the slowness of notion thief: narset is slower out of urza decks and is fine disruption there. Perhaps the nonbo with chalice thing is an argument to running only thorn and 3ball not chalice?

In my test games, it was a combination of the slowness and nonbo. When I had Chalice or even Thorn or 3ball, opponent is resolving many fewer Brainstorms, so there are fewer scenarios where it's worth leaving 4 mana open vs casting something on mainphase or boasting Varragoth. When I didn't have a prison piece, the blue player can too easily cast spells to efficiently interact with 4-mana plays. Vs nonblue decks it would be dead. Maybe Thief in the board?

In those Urza decks Narset isn't just disruption, it's "win the game" off Echo. It also digs. Narset has text in all matchups, while Thief has no text in most nonblue matchups. If we aren't running something like the Hull-Day combo, it's not comparable.

Chalice is too good to give up. If it's a choice between Thief and Chalice, Chalice should win.

[Reeplcheep]

Hmm maybe we trim the notion thief. Even stronger than tnn with cloak and dagger is cold-eye selkie if we can afford to cast it.

[Reeplcheep]

Reddit post (https://www.reddit.com/r/MTGLegacy/comments/qfs3oz/monob_rogue_brew/)

[FTW]

Can't tell what the Reddit deck is trying to do. OP first needs a more focused plan.

As we discussed earlier, Thieves' Guild Enforcer is a huge nonbo with Dauthi Voidwalker and Leyline of the Void. Enforcer is not good enough to play based on its mill alone as a vanilla 1/1, only if the mill makes it a 3/2 deathtouch. Either Enforcer or Voidwalker, not both together. The deck needs to pick a direction.

In the current meta, Voidwalker seems better (DRC, Murktide, Uro, Loam, Reclaimer+Knight, combo). Starting shell:
4 Dark Ritual
4 Dauthi Voidwalker
4 Opposition Agent
4 Thoughtseize
4 Hymn to Tourach
0 Thieves' Guild Enforcer

Then the deck needs removal if it plans on playing as a fair deck vs all these Ragavans and Murktides. 4-7 slots of some mix of Fatal Push, Eliminate, Sudden Edict and/or Snuff Out.

For the remaining slots it depends if OP wants to focus on Tribal, discard, Stompy, Deadguy?

For the tribal plan, Oona's Blackguard, Bitterblossom, Earwig Squad...

For a discard plan, Tinybones is OK but really depends on having a repeatable discard outlet. Oona's Blackguard isn't enough. Liliana of the Veil's +1 would help fuel Tinybones. Or you could just play Dark Confidant instead of Tinybones (if you play Bob, reduce other life loss cards).

Maybe something like this
//Creatures: 18
4 Dauthi Voidwalker
4 Dark Confidant
2 Tourach, Dread Cantor
4 Opposition Agent
4 Grief

//Spells: 20
4 Dark Ritual
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Fatal Push
2 Reanimate
4 Hymn to Tourach
3 Sudden Edict

//Artifacts: 2
2 Umezawa's Jitte

//Lands: 20
4 Wasteland
2 Castle Locthwain
14 Swamp


Jitte's lifegain and Inquisition over Thoughtseize because of Bob's life loss. GriefReanimate because why not?

[Borg]

Scheming Symmetry is an excellent card along Thieves' Guild enforcer imo.
Tutor for your wanted card and mill their choice with Enforcer.

Scheming Symmetry is even better with Opposition Agent out.

To have reliable milling effects I use Nightveil Specter ( can be ritualed out T1 ) and Codex Shredder

Nighthawk Scavenger and maralen round out the core cards in my deck.

I'm thinking of making this BR so I can add Kolaghan's Command ( excellent vs chalice, Vial, Urza land artifact etc and fills the GY for Enforcer and Scavenger. )
and Blood Sun ( makes all fetchlands dead draws, stops Wasteland and Urza Land and to your advantage stops the damage from any painlands, like Ancient Tomb)

[FTW]

That sounds like a coherent strategy, without the Voidwalkers. It just seemed bad next to Voidwalker + Leyline.

Red splash also adds useful tools for mana denial and killing artifacts. You could push that exploit even further with Ragavan, Nimble Pilferer... (further invalidating Symmetry while also adding to the mana dominance plan)


//Creatures: 21
4 Ragavan, Nimble Pilferer
4 Thieves' Guild Enforcer
4 Dark Confidant
4 Opposition Agent
4 Nighthawk Scavenger
1 Maralen of the Mornsong

//Spells: 18
4 Dark Ritual
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Scheming Symmetry
2 Kolaghan's Command
2 Snuff Out

//Artifacts: 1
1 Umezawa's Jitte

//Lands: 20
4 Wasteland
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Prismatic Vista
4 Badlands
4 Swamp
2 Mountain

//Rough Sideboard: 15
2 Blood Moon
1 Pyroblast
1 Red Elemental Blast
2 Grief
1 Cabal Therapy
1 Earwig Squad
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
2 Plague Engineer
2 Faerie Macabre
2 Leyline of the Void


You could go -4 Dark Confidant +4 Oona's Blackguard for tribal synergy, but I suspect Bob is just better. Nighthawk lifegain does a lot to offset Bob.

Edits:
-1 Hymn +1 KComm
-1 Bitterblossom +1 Maralen
Bitterblossom was better with Oona's Blackguard in the deck (and perhaps cards like Cabal Therapy) but gets worse as the deck focus changes away from tribal discard.

Edit2:
-3 Hymn +3 Inquisition/Thoughtseize
This gives more targeted G1 disruption, instead of trying to just grind out random 2-for-1. It's also better tempo to exploit Ragavan and/or leave Enforcer up, at the expense of losing harder to Chalice @ 1.

[Borg]

Maralen ?
If she doesn't fit in here, she fits nowhere.
She's too good to pass up, I think.

Just 1 Command ?
I'd go at least two.
Less Hymns. Dead card vs empty hand.
Command is never useless.

Ragavan is just perfect for this strategy.
I'd advise 4 Symmetries.

[FTW]

Maralen ?
If she doesn't fit in here, she fits nowhere.
She's too good to pass up, I think.

Just 1 Command ?
I'd go at least two.
Less Hymns. Dead card vs empty hand.
Command is never useless.

Good points. I guess 1-of Maralen for when you have Opposition Agent (tutorable with Symmetry). More than one seems terrible because it's bad on its own.

I edited for -1 Hymn +1 Command.

Attacking their top of library through multiple means is strong. If you just had mill (Enforcer), they can tutor for Uro and punish you for milling them. But if you can also threaten to Dash Ragavan then this decision isn't so easy.

[Borg]

Good points. I guess 1-of Maralen for when you have Opposition Agent (tutorable with Symmetry). More than one seems terrible because it's bad on its own.

I edited for -1 Hymn +1 Command.
Off course, 1 is enough.

Not 100% sold on the Hymns though.
I think thoughtseize is more useful to peek into opponent's and remove card of your choice rather than 2 randoms before playing one of your key cards.
The lifeloss could be made up by the Scavenger and Jitte.

[FTW]

Yeah, maybe Thoughtseize/Inquisition is better to have more targetted disruption. It helps Ragavan connect and gives better G1 against combo.


Ragavan is just perfect for this strategy.
I'd advise 4 Symmetries.

Symmetry is a very high-risk high-reward card.

The ceiling is insane (with Opposition Agent) = "B, put Maralen on top of library: exile any card from opponent's library. You may cast it ignoring colored mana requirements. At the beginning of your next precombat main phase, win the game if your life total is above 6".

But it can backfire. If they Bolt your Opposition Agent, ambush block your Ragavan, or Brainstorm in response to mill... it can go very wrong. I tried to mitigate the downside by running 12 enablers + SB Grief to pitch it. Still, 4 copies seems aggressive. I'd start with fewer, test many matches, and see how it does.

[Borg]

Attacking their top of library through multiple means is strong. If you just had mill (Enforcer), they can tutor for Uro and punish you for milling them. But if you can also threaten to Dash Ragavan then this decision isn't so easy.
Nightveil Specter is a 1-off in my deck because he can be ritualed T1 and he can exile the top every turn.
3cc is a lot though.
But maybe instead of a 4th Ragavan.

[FTW]

Nightveil Specter is a 1-off in my deck because he can be ritualed T1 and he can exile the top every turn.
3cc is a lot though.
But maybe instead of a 4th Ragavan.

Ragavan can do the same thing on T1 without needing Ritual, while also making Lotus Petals. It can also be dashed with haste the turn you cast Symmetry, if you need an immediate surprise exile.

Specter's only advantage is evasion, at the cost of needing Ritual or being slow. But if you don't have to spend a Ritual, you have +1 card to deal with their blocker/removal (Bolt, Thoughtseize, Snuff Out, Grief). So I just maximized 0-1 mana interaction that pushes Ragavan through. That seems to be how to win at Legacy, until they ban it.

[Borg]

Some possible SB cards,
Null Rod
Ensnaring Bridge (possibly ok vs 20/20 flyers but could hinder Scavenger as well.)
Surgical Extraction.

[FTW]

Null Rod or Meltdown seems good. Null Rod has the side effect of neutering Ragavan's treasures without killing enemy Chalice @ 1.

Bridge seems bad with so many creatures, especially Scavenger. 20/20s could be answered by Sudden Edict. Opposition Agent also punishes the search engines (Reclaimer, Crop Rotation, Knight) while Wasteland can punish their first attempt.

[Borg]

Meltdown seems perfect.
2 copies ?

Leyline of the void wrecks Scavenger and should probably be cut from SB or is there any special reason to keep it in ?

How about this for SB ?

2 [USG#203] Meltdown
2 [ICE#213] Pyroblast
1 [4ED#218] Red Elemental Blast
1 [MH2#100] Sudden Edict
1 [8ED#178] Blood Moon
2 [SHM#66] Faerie Macabre
1 [EMN#93] Liliana, the Last Hope
2 [MH1#100] Plague Engineer
2 [MH2#87] Grief
1 [MOR#60] Earwig Squad

[FTW]

Looks good.



Leyline of the void wrecks Scavenger and should probably be cut from SB or is there any special reason to keep it in ?


I started with 2 Faerie + 2 Surgical, then switched the Surgicals to Leyline. The reason being matchups where you want to keep their whole graveyard size small, not just remove a single card (Murktide Regent's delve, DRC, Hogaak, MadVine, GW Depths, Reanimator discarding 2 creatures and then casting non-targetting Exhume, etc). I was concerned Faerie + Surgical wouldn't do enough. But maybe it still beats Leyline anti-synergy.

[FTW]

This version dedicated to the combo took Legacy Challenge 2nd place:
https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/mtgo-standings/legacy-challenge-2021-11-01#paragon_nd_place


//Lands: 23
4 Urza's Saga
4 City of Traitors
1 Ancient Tomb
2 Ifnir Deadlands
2 Silent Clearing
7 Swamp
1 Karakas
1 Blast Zone
1 Inventors' Fair

//Spells: 4
4 Dark Ritual

//Rogues: 9
4 Dauthi Voidwalker
4 Opposition Agent
1 Maralen of the Mornsong

//Artifacts:
3 Mox Diamond
1 Retrofitter Foundry
1 Pithing Needle
1 Shadowspear
1 The Underworld Cookbook
1 Expedition Map
4 Serum Powder
3 Helm of Obedience

//Enchantments: 4
4 Leyline of the Void

//Planeswalkers: 5
4 Karn, the Great Creator
1 Karn, Scion of Urza

//Sideboard: 15
1 Mycosynth Lattice
1 Helm of Obedience
1 Liquimetal Coating
1 Walking Ballista
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Sphere of Annihilation
1 Defense Grid
2 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Plague Engineer
1 The Meathook Massacre
1 To The Slaughter
1 Sudden Edict
1 Karn, Scion of Urza

[Reeplcheep]

This deck is pretty great. Fast helm kills eat the fair non-blue decks for lunch. We were the only last 5-0s in the last round of the Swiss and I ended up winning 2-1.

I just really hate mox diamond in a deck with so few lands, but the black count is too sketchy to justify chrome mox.
I think defence grid, artifact lands and mox opal over swamps, serum powder and mox diamond could be an improvement.

[FTW]

This deck is pretty great. Fast helm kills eat the fair non-blue decks for lunch. We were the only last 5-0s in the last round of the Swiss and I ended up winning 2-1.

I just really hate mox diamond in a deck with so few lands, but the black count is too sketchy to justify chrome mox.
I think defence grid, artifact lands and mox opal over swamps, serum powder and mox diamond could be an improvement.

I like that there's a lot of tech built in with Saga, Karn, Fair and Map tutor packages. Aside from the toolboxes, they all fix the combo too:
Karn -> Helm
Saga -> Expedition Map -> Inventors' Fair -> Helm
Saga -> Cookbook -> return Voidwalker from graveyard
Maralen -> make them search for an answer for Opposition Agent to prevent lock -> get Helm & win (if they got Force, repeat and they'll run out of blue cards or -4 to death)

Those utility lands and Cookbook must help counteract variance from bad topdecks, something Stompy decks normally struggle with. For example, Ifnir is "Swamp" that uncounterably kills small creatures from fair blue.

Do you think cutting Swamp for Vault of Whispers would work? Basic Swamp has a lot of value not dying to Blood Moon, B2B, Wasteland, Null Rod, Collector Ouphe, Meltdown, etc. Vault walks into a lot of hate. Didn't you try it in Curses and run into that problem?

[Reeplcheep]

Do you think cutting Swamp for Vault of Whispers would work? Basic Swamp has a lot of value not dying to Blood Moon, B2B, Wasteland, Null Rod, Collector Ouphe, Meltdown, etc. Vault walks into a lot of hate. Didn't you try it in Curses and run into that problem?

In curses I can reasonably beat Collector Ouphe and null rod, wheareas he is dead regardless if he can make black or not. 1 drops are also a bit better at turning mox opal than chalice is. But maybe that is not the way and he should just play lotus petal. I just think mox diamond is a terrible card at 26 lands, not to mention 23.