[C21] Commander 2021 spoilers

[Barook]

Jesus, yet another spoiler season?
http://mythicspoiler.com/c21/cards/laeliathebladereforged.jpg

Seems really good with that blue enchantment that can remove library cards on demand.

There are also these cards:

http://mythicspoiler.com/c21/cards/losheelclockworkscholar.jpghttp://mythicspoiler.com/c21/cards/alibouancientwitness1.jpg

[chunderbucket]

Were the Play Designers bullied by Boros players when they were kids or

[Barook]

More cards, found on Reddit:

https://i.redd.it/eil4nf65ler61.pnghttps://i.redd.it/3j57w2c2ler61.pnghttps://i.redd.it/vtkph4x0ler61.png

Links to the other cards sadly don't work.

[chunderbucket]

Alright are there interesting combos to run with the mirror thing? All I can think of is Welder/Engineer shenanigans. And I guess blue Tezzeret (does anyone play that anymore?) can grab it to make a copy of anything you have.

It can also copy, say, a Skyclave Apparition and exile a thing forever if the opp doesn't have removal right now. I'd like to know if this trick also works for creatures like Banisher Priest or Kitesail Freebooter or Valki etc. I guess you can also use it to "cheat" on cards with Echo cost. Are there any that are good?

[Barook]

Some other new spoilers:

http://mythicspoiler.com/c21/cards/digsiteengineer.jpg

Stompy mana cost. There must be a away to abuse this, right? It can create tons of Karn constructs. There's obviously Salvagers + LED, but maybe something else (considering Ballista is the superior wincon)?

http://mythicspoiler.com/c21/cards/angeloftheruins.jpg

This seems fantastic with Welder (or even Reanimator), especially since it already has its own discard outlet already built in. Nuking artifacts/enchantments + being a fat flyer seems too good to pass. A whole bunch of common removal doesn't work against it and even then - you can just bring it back with Welder. Are there any good white ways to bring it back, though?

http://mythicspoiler.com/c21/cards/excavationtechnique.jpg

Not too sure how this would fare in white Stompy decks.

http://mythicspoiler.com/c21/cards/audaciousreshapers.jpg

Another one that can combo with Platinum Angel/Emperion.

[H]

https://i.imgur.com/5oqgnHp.png
https://i.imgur.com/Hvi2uTR.png
https://i.imgur.com/TUpWZA4.png
https://i.imgur.com/nu5RkbK.png

[H]

https://i.imgur.com/U7Doa4c.pnghttps://i.imgur.com/kOSteXc.png
https://i.imgur.com/dKENLSo.pnghttps://i.imgur.com/T9VSz4n.png

[H]

Octavia could sure be wild with Young Pyromancer, but 8 is a lot of spells in the 'yard.

[rufus]

...
Seems really good with that blue enchantment that can remove library cards on demand.


Does it work with Tainted Pact?

... Cursed Mirror is really interesting.

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

...
Seems really good with that blue enchantment that can remove library cards on demand.


Does it work with Tainted Pact?

... Cursed Mirror is really interesting.

Not really since eventually you'll hit two of the same. Probably sooner rather than later.

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

Real excited for Octva Living Thesis, gonna have to figure something out.

[Barook]

http://mythicspoiler.com/c21/cards/rionyafiredancer.jpg

Can go infinite with Port Razer or Combat Celebrant. It's noteworthy that it's X+1, so zero spells still copies one creature.

[HdH_Cthulhu]

[QUOTE=rufus;1092683][QUOTE=Barook;1092639]...
Seems really good with that blue enchantment that can remove library cards on demand.


Not really since eventually you'll hit two of the same. Probably sooner rather than later.

Even if you run a commander deck... its "one or more cards" +1+1


But anyway 3/3 haste draw engine. Stompy mana cost.

[Barook]

Even if you run a commander deck... its "one or more cards" +1+1
What? Thought Lash (finally remembered the name) has an activated ability that allows you to trigger the ability once per activation - and there's no activation limit.

Edit: Laelia also plays very nicely with Chandra, Torch of Defiance which most Red Stompy decks run anyway.

[HdH_Cthulhu]

What? Thought Lash (finally remembered the name) has an activated ability that allows you to trigger the ability once per activation - and there's no activation limit.

Edit: Laelia also plays very nicely with Chandra, Torch of Defiance which most Red Stompy decks run anyway.

I messed up the QUOTE i wanted to talk about Tainted packt

Light up the Stage is also good, and there is some good GY hate like scrabbling claws idk the name but there is a better one that claws

[rufus]

...
Even if you run a commander deck... its "one or more cards" +1+1
...

Right, but they get exiled one at a time in the process of resolving the tainted pact, which has me wondering.

[Barook]

Right, but they get exiled one at a time in the process of resolving the tainted pact, which has me wondering.
I'm pretty sure the card looks only at the end result. It can't trigger during the resolution of the spell, just afterwards.

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

I'm pretty sure the card looks only at the end result. It can't trigger during the resolution of the spell, just afterwards.

It can trigger during the resolution of a spell, if they couldn't a permanent could never trigger on itself dying to a "Destroy" effect because it would be placed into the graveyard during the resolution of the spell and therefore the triggered ability would cease to function by the time we're at "Afterwards"

603.2. Whenever a game event or game state matches a triggered ability’s trigger event, that ability automatically triggers. The ability doesn’t do anything at this point.

603.2a Because they aren’t cast or activated, triggered abilities can trigger even when it isn’t legal to cast spells and activate abilities. Effects that preclude abilities from being activated don’t affect them.
What you're refering to is that they can't be put onto the stack until the spell finishes resolving, but they still trigger.

603.3. Once an ability has triggered, its controller puts it on the stack as an object that’s not a card the next time a player would receive priority.

[Barook]

http://mythicspoiler.com/c21/cards/oversimplify.jpg

UG now has a legit Wrath effect. If you have a bounce available, this shifts the symmetry alot.

[Whoshim]

http://mythicspoiler.com/c21/cards/oversimplify.jpg

UG now has a legit Wrath effect. If you have a bounce available, this shifts the symmetry alot.

It feels a bit like it breaks the color pie. I did a quick search for blue instants and sorceries that have "all creatures" in the text. There aren't many. Most involve tapping. A few involve returning. Two of the blue also have double white and are board wipes (Supreme Verdict and Time Wipe).

Doing the same for green results in power/toughness boosts, damage prevention, and turning lands into creatures. When paired with black, there is Death Frenzy (all get -2/-2) and Golgari Charm and Rolling Spoil (-1/-1). Gruul Charm (red/green) hits all creatures with flying. There is one mono-green card that destroys all creatures with flying (Whirlwind). Hurricane is similar (but it has "each" instead of all, so I only added it here because I remembered - I am not going to search more).

Blue does have Pongify, and green has Beast Within, but those are single creatures, not the whole board.

Planeswalkers that bounce creatures play really well with this.

[chunderbucket]

It doesn't break at all the color pie and is perfectly consistent with Wizards' printing policy (aka blue gets literally the best of everything and anything boros that doesn't involve attack triggers must suck)

[Barook]

I like what they're trying to do with white/Boros this time around. At least there was an attempt to do something more original than sucky combat stuff.

As for blue, I don't get the logic why Wizards thinks that blue needs hard removal to interact with creatures when the color has both counters and bounce.

[Barook]

http://mythicspoiler.com/c21/cards/keenduelist.jpg

Pretty interesting - you play big stuff and nuke your opponent into oblivion with it.

[Ronald Deuce]

http://mythicspoiler.com/c21/cards/keenduelist.jpg

Pretty interesting - you play big stuff and nuke your opponent into oblivion with it.

Timesifter's day has come!

[Barook]

Timesifter's day has come!
Maybe it slots into Yuriko decks?

That said, it could do some really dumb shit with Scroll Rack since you can put back your expensive card every turn.

[Reeplcheep]

Mrs. Bob seems like a good friend of Scourge of the Skyclaves

[Zoid]

http://mythicspoiler.com/c21/cards/keenduelist.jpg

Pretty interesting - you play big stuff and nuke your opponent into oblivion with it.

What a surprise, another bonkers 2 mana human.

Could be the comeback of suicide black.

At least with this they can never unban Top.

[chunderbucket]

Am I missing something, how is this playable at all? It provides CA to the opp and against some decks you run dumb risks like losing 15 to Emrakul.

[Cire]

Am I missing something, how is this playable at all? It provides CA to the opp and against some decks you run dumb risks like losing 15 to Emrakul.

Combine with Worldly and Slyvan Tutor? IDK.

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

Am I missing something, how is this playable at all? It provides CA to the opp and against some decks you run dumb risks like losing 15 to Emrakul.

Be the emrakul deck and hit them for 15.

[KobeBryan]

Am I missing something, how is this playable at all? It provides CA to the opp and against some decks you run dumb risks like losing 15 to Emrakul.

Black Blue

Man you can run on them. set every thing up with brainstorm and ponder. Play some enter the infinites and omniscience and go to work.

[Barook]

Am I missing something, how is this playable at all? It provides CA to the opp and against some decks you run dumb risks like losing 15 to Emrakul.
You provide them with cards, but there's no card advantage since both sides go +1, so there's card parity. As long as they don't have instants, you can use discard to get rid of the extra card, too.

[Reeplcheep]

Fevered Visions was ok in its time in standard, and howling mine/sulfur vortex have both seen play in the past. I think this card could be great in burn.

[Barook]

I think this card could be great in burn.
But aside from Fireblast and Rift Bolt, most of your stuff is on 1-2 CMC? :eyebrow:

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

But aside from Fireblast and Rift Bolt, most of your stuff is on 1-2 CMC? :eyebrow:

What if sulfuric vortex drew a card?

[Reeplcheep]

Light up the stage is also completely playable in burn.

Edit: the other one, Skewer the Critics

[Reeplcheep]

Chandra's Incinerator, anyone?

[chunderbucket]

Afaik Burn lists exist with both Light Up the Stage and Skewer the Critics. Do people still play Bedlam Reveler? Anyway does Burn even want a two-mana thing that needs to untap before it does anything?

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

Chandra's Incinerator, anyone?

Incinerator needs damage, the duelist does life loss.

[Barook]

You can use Worldly Tutor with Duelist to set up Emrakul to hit for 15. Draco would hit for 16, but then again, you would play Draco. Emrakul has at least some uses.

Varragoth, Bloodsky Sire could also set up things repeatly while being on-color. Fun stuff with Yuriko, too:
Attack with Varragoth, Boast, put Emrakul on top, ninjutsu in Yuriko, hit for 15.

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

UB show and tell? You're already running the emrakuls and grisslybrands, and the 5cmc force of will

[chunderbucket]

Alright I guess throwing together shitpiles to brew with bad cards is my second nature, so here you go.

4x Brainstorm
4x Ponder
4x Force of Will
2x Preordain
2x Flusterstorm
2x Spell Pierce
4x Show and Tell
4x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4x Omniscience
4x Baleful Strix
3x Yuriko
4x Keen Duelist

4x Polluted Delta
4x Underground Sea
3x Ancient Tomb
3x Island
1x Swamp
1x Boseiju
2x Scalding Tarn

I suspect most of the wins won't come from the 2-mana do-nothing but the actual good cards (Yuriko, Show and Tell)

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

I suspect most of the wins won't come from the 2-mana do-nothing but the actual good cards (Yuriko, Show and Tell)
This is a seven mana effect on a two Mana body.

[Whoshim]

I suspect most of the wins won't come from the 2-mana do-nothing but the actual good cards (Yuriko, Show and Tell)

I don't know about that. T2 Duelist, T3 Brainstorm during upkeep, putting Emrakul on top. That puts them pretty close to dead.

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

Oh! And MDFCs are lands with cmcs allowing you to raise the damage output without cutting land

[chunderbucket]

Hmm looking at Ninja lists that placed they don't seem to pack any of the MDFC lands, not even the blue one that casts all the cantrips and sits at CMC7. I don't know if it's because it was tested and found to be just bad or of it's an oversight because people forget those lands exist. Still, 3 life, one single color and Wasteland vulnerability isn't negligible, and I guess in a deck that'll take random damage from its own Duelists while giving the opp cards that could be wastelands the issue will be exacerbated.


I don't know about that. T2 Duelist, T3 Brainstorm during upkeep, putting Emrakul on top. That puts them pretty close to dead.

T2 duelist pass, the opp has time to set up emrakul themselves, suddenly you're the one who's dead. Not everyone plays Emrakul you say? Alright, I guess they'll just set up Force of Will and deal you 5 while keeping FoW backup for whatever nonsense you throw at them next. Or they could just point at it any piece of removal under the sun short of Darkblast. Or you won't set up Emrakul because you'll have a hand full of lands and cantrips.

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

Legacy players slow to adapt?
Well I never!

[chunderbucket]

I did post a decklist, didn't I? Go wild and test it on Cockatrice, I am agog to be proven wrong. In the meantime I have other shitbrews to attend to.

[HdH_Cthulhu]

Tombstalker and gurmag? Or a shitty Black Vise deck!?

[Ronald Deuce]

I'm thinkin' Tin Fins or Big Black.

[chunderbucket]

Alright here's the fair version

4x Brainstorm
4x Ponder
4x Thoughtscour
4x Force of Will
4x Force of Negation
4x Daze

2x Brazen Borrower
2x Octavia
4x Keen Duelist
2x Ethereal Forager
3x Cryptic Serpent
2x Snuff Out
4x Drown in the Loch

1x Seagate Restoration
4x Polluted Delta
4x Prismatic Vista
2x Island
1x Swamp
3x Underground Sea
2x Scalding Tarn

Octavia for extra meme flavor. Didn't put Tombstalker cause costing BB sucks. Edit: removed Gurmag Angler to avoid the tension between delve/cost-reduction cards as Zoid said. (I still think a couple of Ethereal Forager is ok because they provide CA, delve 4 isn't that bad, it pitches to forces, etc. List is not tested, tune it yourself.)

[Zoid]

Alright here's the fair version

4x Brainstorm
4x Ponder
4x Thoughtscour
4x Force of Will
4x Force of Negation
4x Daze

2x Brazen Borrower
1x Octavia
4x Keen Duelist
2x Gurmag Angler
2x Ethereal Forager
2x Cryptic Serpent
2x Snuff Out
4x Drown in the Loch

4x Polluted Delta
4x Prismatic Vista
3x Island
1x Swamp
3x Underground Sea
2x Scalding Tarn

Octavia for extra meme flavor. Didn't put Tombstalker cause costing BB sucks.

Me gusta, but I would either go for Delve or count stuff in the GY.
Otherwise you're just going to play yourself.

[Ronald Deuce]

I feel like the spell-lands (especially the ones that can enter untapped) are a really easy way to up our "big cost" count. Agadeem's a bit low-costed for that (and doesn't really work with Omniscience), but it does give us some inevitability over time. Sea Gate looks like a really strong inclusion. And Turntimber gets Griselbrand to swing for ten.

Just kicking things around at this point.

[HdH_Cthulhu]

http://mythicspoiler.com/c21/cards/gyomemasterchef1.jpg

Fair but strong. Triggers for itself. 5/3

he protec he attac

[Barook]

You don't have a food until the end of turn, so there's a window to Bolt it. At 4 mana and being able to Karakas it, Gyome doesn't seem too hot imho.

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

You don't have a food until the end of turn, so there's a window to Bolt it. At 4 mana and being able to Karakas it, Gyome doesn't seem too hot imho.

I see the karakas line as a plus.

[chunderbucket]

You don't have a food until the end of turn, so there's a window to Bolt it. At 4 mana and being able to Karakas it, Gyome doesn't seem too hot imho.

You obviously play it with Golden Goose (you're going to need some to ramp anyway if you want to play a 4 mana thing that needs 1 more to do other things)

[BenBleiweiss]

Afaik Burn lists exist with both Light Up the Stage and Skewer the Critics. Do people still play Bedlam Reveler? Anyway does Burn even want a two-mana thing that needs to untap before it does anything?

Could Fireblast be back on the menu?

[Zoid]

Could Fireblast be back on the menu?

BR with Vial Smasher the Fierce, pitch spells and tutors.
Could be a blast :tongue:

[chunderbucket]

Alright I've always wanted to build a pitch shitpile.

4 Street Wraith
4 Chancellor of the Dross
4 Chancellor of the Forge
2 Vial Smasher the Fierce
2 Squee, Goblin Nabob
4 Soul Spike
4 Blazing Shoal
4 Fireblast
4 Entomb
4 Badlands
1 Mountain
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Verdant Catacombs
4 Reanimate
4 Faithless Looting
2 Unearth
4 Keen Duelist

Sideboard

4 Stronghold Gambit
4 Unmask
4 Leyline of the Void
1 Swamp
2 Pyroblast

You first get a few Chancellor triggers and then kind of hope to get there by either reanimating one of those, beating down with some Shoaled Goblin token or doing some dumb stuff with Soul Spike, with or without Duelist/Vial Smasher. More likely you'll just mulligan away bad hands and then topdeck Chancellors.

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

Black-Post:

Creatures -12:
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Keen Duelist
4 Wurmcoil Engine

Planeswalkers -4:
4 Ugin the Spirit Dragon

Artifacts -16:
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Trinisphere
4 Grim Monolith
4 Coldsteel Heart

Sorcery -6:
4 Introduction to Prophecy
2 All is Dust

Land -22:
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cloud Post
4 Glimmerpost
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Vesuva
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Swamp

Probably need to cut the wurmcoils for more land, and I know there's something better than coldsteel heart. SIgnets don't eneter tapped right?
Maybe a karn or two to wish up some Artifact Swamps

[Zoid]

Probably need to cut the wurmcoils for more land, and I know there's something better than coldsteel heart. SIgnets don't eneter tapped right?
Maybe a karn or two to wish up some Artifact Swamps

Mind Stone?
Guardian Idol enters tapped but can also go smash.

Maybe squeeze in a Forsaken Monument for the lulz.

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

Mind Stone?
Guardian Idol enters tapped but can also go smash.

Maybe squeeze in a Forsaken Monument for the lulz.

Being able to tap for black is the main draw here.

[Zoid]

Being able to tap for black is the main draw here.

Environmental Sciences for the 1 swamp?

Maybe Sphere of the Suns or Pillar of Origins on human?

[rufus]

Talisman of Dominance is another option.

[FTW]

Black-Post:

Creatures -12:
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Keen Duelist
4 Wurmcoil Engine

Planeswalkers -4:
4 Ugin the Spirit Dragon

Artifacts -16:
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Trinisphere
4 Grim Monolith
4 Coldsteel Heart

Sorcery -6:
4 Introduction to Prophecy
2 All is Dust

Land -22:
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cloud Post
4 Glimmerpost
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Vesuva
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Swamp

Probably need to cut the wurmcoils for more land, and I know there's something better than coldsteel heart. SIgnets don't eneter tapped right?
Maybe a karn or two to wish up some Artifact Swamps


Replace the Coldsteels with Talisman of Dominance and add 4 Karn TGC and this looks like a decent deck. I don't understand the point of the 3-mana Preordain.

[Barook]

Turns out Laelia + Relic of Progenitus is really good (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RLa5_BAGmo)

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

Turns out Laelia + Relic of Progenitus is really good (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RLa5_BAGmo)

This video is two hours long so can you tell me it you think it's good because it's a Dragon's Blood or because you think it's good because they misread the card and exiled the relic and put like 30 counters on it?

[H]

It was played correctly @18:05 or so of the video and I imagine it was likely played correctly for the rest of the matches as well.

[Barook]

This video is two hours long so can you tell me it you think it's good because it's a Dragon's Blood or because you think it's good because they misread the card and exiled the relic and put like 30 counters on it?
Dragon Blood costs 6 mana to put a single counter on a creature, and then 3 more every turn. Relic costs 1 and then nothing (unless you want to spend another mana to nuke the graveyard). The sheer difference in mana costs alone makes this comparision silly.

Costs aside, Relic isn't too shabby, either, in a meta full of Uros. It's just two cards that are good on their own and synergize well when used together.

[Memories of the Time]

Dragon Blood costs 6 mana to put a single counter on a creature, and then 3 more every turn. Relic costs 1 and then nothing (unless you want to spend another mana to nuke the graveyard). The sheer difference in mana costs alone makes this comparision silly.

Costs aside, Relic isn't too shabby, either, in a meta full of Uros. It's just two cards that are good on their own and synergize well when used together.

I'm eager to try her with Scavenging ooze too