Affinity Aggro 2021 [Archive]

Mr. Safety

06-27-2021, 10:42 AM

On a whim I picked up some Thought Monitors and Sojourner's Companions, thinking a legitimate 8x Thoughtcast + free dudes setup might be good enough in Legacy. This is a budget list for now, just something to mess around with. Obvious upgrades come in the form of Urzas Saga, Arcbound Ravager, possibly Nettlecyst, maybe Chalice, and a 4th Mox Opal. I'm testing the tapped artifact lands because they 'add' mana even while entering tapped. The critical mass of blue mana is needed to feed the 8 card draw engines. I've had insane turns where chaining 2 thoughtcast/monitors just feeds more free 4/4's and 2/2's. Like 20+ power on the board turn 3. I genuinely think there is a way to make this a legit aggro deck.

First draft:

4x Ornithopter
1x memnite
4x frogmite
4x myr enforcer
4x sojourner's companion
4x thought monitor
4x master of ethereum

4x cranial plating
4x springleaf drum
3x Mox Opal
4x Mishra's bauble
1x welding jar
4x thoughtcast

4x seat of the synod
4x razortide bridge
4x mistvault bridge
1x darksteel citadel
2x blinkmoth nexus

Rough draft sideboard:
4x Tormod's Crypt
4x Force of Will
2x Force of Negation
2x Steel Sabotage
2x Ethersworn Canonist
1x Engineered Explosives

Second Draft, testing inclusion of Salvage Titan and non-Force sideboard.

4x Ornithopter
1x Memnite
4x Frogmite
4x Myr Enforcer
4x Sojourner's Companion
4x Thought Monitor
3x Salvage Titan
2x Master of Etherium

4x Springleaf Drum
4x Cranial Plating
4x Thoughtcast
3x Mox Opal
4x Lotus Petal

4x Seat of the Synod
4x Mistvault Bridge
4x Razortide Bridge
1x Darksteel Citadel
2x Blinkmoth Nexus

Sideboard
4x Thoughtseize
3x Steel Sabotage
2x Ethersworn Canonist
4x Tormod's Crypt
2x Stubborn Denial

Purple Blood

06-27-2021, 05:09 PM

Have you tried cutting Springleaf for Chalice and adding Ancient Tomb?

If you go white you can add Ethersworn Canonist and/or Esper Sentinel (if you don't add Chalice).

kombatkiwi

06-28-2021, 12:52 AM

Assuming you want to keep this on a budget (isn't opal still worth quite a bit more than a bunch of obvious cards you're not playing) play 4 citadel and fewer (0?) tapped lands

Mr. Safety

06-28-2021, 08:22 AM

First off, thanks for the feedback guys.

Ancient Tomb + Chalice is definitely a way to go, there is literally only 1 card that costs 1 mana (Drum) in the maindeck. I would have to work towards that with purchases, I'm a paper-only player. I'm not sure if playing the Enforcer/Frogmite plan is the correct way to build it with Chalice.

Regarding Mox Opal...I just had them, so as far as being on a budget, it was a non-issue. Even with 4x Opal in the deck it's absurdly cheap to build by legacy standards. I've spent less than $50 so far. Another $50 or so for the 4th Opal is an easy decision. A harder decision is shelling out for Tombs/Chalices, which is quite a bit more than $50 (about $140 for the Chalices and $150 for 3 more Tombs, I have 1.)

In testing the tapped artifact lands haven't really been a problem. The main point is that they are artifacts so they enable Opal turn 1 and they make everything cost less. They still 'add' 1 mana even while entering tapped. The other crucial point is that they add blue mana, which is absolutely critical. What I want in the deck is useful, free artifacts that make Frogmite/Enforcer/Companion free. That's why I have a 'bad' card like Mishra's Bauble in there, just to turn on Opal and it adds mana for the affinity dudes.

Ethersworn Canonist and Esper Sentinel are both on my list of potential cards, especially Sentinel. This deck wants to draw cards, so anything that does that for low mana cost is going to be good. The obvious place to cut is Mishra's Bauble, but again, I need a critical mass of free artifacts to enable the free dudes. I already have 2x Ethersworn Canonist, it was in the first draft, but it didn't really work towards the blitz goal. It is a strong sideboard card for sure, but I'm not sure how good it would be maindeck.

The deck is incredibly strong at stabilizing by turn 3, even on slow starts. I'm not worried about the fair matchups too much, this can play around Daze turn 2+ so easily. Terminus isn't played very much anymore, but it's still there. The biggest worry is Null Rod, so there needs to be a plan for that. With 12 maindeck blue cards already I think it could reasonably sideboard Force of Will/Negation to answer Null Rods.

Other ideas that I'm thinking about, that are probably bad but fall into the 'cool stuff' category:

Paradise Mantle + Steelfin Whale = play stuff, untap Whale for every artifact, make tons of mana, Walking Balista for combo finish. Mantle is another free artifact that generates 2 mana for affinity spells.

Somber Hoverguard = play Delver-style threats to pressure in the air

Ethersworn Sphinx = play UW for a 4/4 flyer, cascade into more threats. The zero cost artifacts are pretty lousy to cascade into, but just getting a 4/4 flyer for 2 mana that feeds the engine is probably good enough. Qumulox is already a card, and likely easier to cast than Sphinx, but if I'm playing a non-artifact creature I want it to cost 1 mana at most, and Hoverguard is better in this regard.

Essentially what I want the deck to do is play free threats and re-load into more free threats with 8 Thoughtcast effects. It does that very well so far, sometimes entering the degenerate zone. I'm testing this in legacy with Seat of the Synod/Mox Opal but I could easily port this over to Modern, or even Pauper, if I wanted to.

EDIT: I'm holding out on Urza's Saga for a little bit, in case it's banned from Modern. If it's banned I should be able to pick them up much cheaper than currently. It's a calculated risk.

Mr. Safety

06-28-2021, 11:13 AM

Here's a cool list that did well in a league recently:

http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=31233&d=442514&f=LE

This is doing essentially the same thing I want to do: play free artifacts and draw a bunch of cards. I had an idea that Glimpse was possibly good, but it was just a passing thought. I totally missed the improvise mechanic, that might be a direction I take now. I also really like the idea of Salvage Titan, which means my lands again pull double duty by not having to tap for mana, just sacrifice them to Titan's free cost.

EDIT: Looks like Barricade Breaker and Foundry Assembler are the best options. I'm going to toy around with Salvage Titan first.

Vacrix

07-08-2021, 11:37 PM

One with the Machine is basically a draw 7 for 3U. Sometimes it might be a draw 4 with Frogmite. It’s comparable to Paradoxical Outcomes tho it could be better when you are playing this many 7 drops each with affinity.

Erayo, Soratami Ascendant is a build I haven’t seen in a while. Erayo turns on Mox Amber is relatively new. It seems ideal for a Glimpse build tho rather than a monoblue beatdown plan. Interestingly, Erayo flips when the fourth spell of a turn is played, so if the opponent plays two spells, one could respond with 2 spells to flip her.

Hope of Ghirapur seems ideal for a Glimpse of Nature build.

Hullbreacher is a nice way to turn off cantrips, particularly in response to Brainstorm. Combos with symmetrical card draw like Echo of Eons. More importantly.. it makes artifacts which helps to cast all those 7 drops for cheap.

Salvage Titan is sweet. I was playing around with it recently. Life’s Legacy, and Morbid Curiosity. Life’s Legacy in particular seems quite good with Cranial Plating, Greater Good and plating can do something similar.

Other cards to take advantage of the high cmc were Burnt Offering, but one would want to run stuff like Burning Wish.

Energy Tap is monoblue, tho it’s hard to find somewhere to go with all that mana without something like Karn, the Great Creator.

Snap can bounce Thought Monitor, or just temporary removal. Perhaps better for saving your own creatures. Comparable to Steel Sabotage.

Birthing Pod is another direction, find Grizz.. lots of 7 drops lead right to him, and Birthing Pod is both splashable and an artifact. The deck structure would look different but unlike Neoform and Eldritch Evolution, one doesn’t risk the creature as an additional cost.

Hex Parasite can remove counters from Aether Vial. Wish there was something else to do with it tho.

Spellskite can save your dudes from spot removal, particularly Bolt. More fun than practical is Shaper’s Sanctuary to draw via Spellskite upon the opponent’s removal spell.

Wishclaw Talsiman is an artifact, not sure what I would grab with it tho.

The Great Henge is a potential engine. Steelfin Whale plays well with this one, as does Paradise Mantle and Metalworker. Cranial Plating feels like the only reliable way to ensure that you can get the Great Henge into play. Corridor Monitor only untaps something when it enters, but it can untap Metalworker. Seems like it might be useful in a Paradoxical Outcomes build.

Displacement Wave seemed alright perhaps as board material? For UU you can wipe tokens, and for more you can reset the board, and bounce all your 0 cmc mana sources, unlike Echoing Truth and Engineered Explosives. X at 3ish pretty much secures the combat step, whilst bouncing Aether Vial to ensure nothing else gets in the way.

I mostly wanted to suggest ways of taking advantage of twelve 7 drops. Previously, four 7 drops wasn’t nearly enough to take advantage of the high cmc.

The affinity is another potential mechanic to exploit, by going slow instead of fast. Drop all the gas early, play lots of Sphere of Resistance effects, play the creatures at a fair cost instead.. effectively boosting the cost of a 7 drop by 1 cancels out since Sphere is an artifact. Perhaps more effective as a transformable sideboard.

The monowhite builds seem best equipped to start locking up the board early where laying down Enforcer/Monitor should be enough to get there. Likely it will play better tho as monowhite Bomberman with Auriok Salvagers and Lion’s Eye Diamond.

Goaswerfraiejen

07-09-2021, 01:25 AM

Hex Parasite works with Urza's Saga, too.

Vacrix

07-09-2021, 10:52 AM

Hex Parasite works with Urza's Saga, too.

That’s an excellent idea. Urza’s Saga can find Hex Parasite means it could be played as a 1’of.

It also works with Mystic Remora.

Mr. Safety

07-09-2021, 12:11 PM

I definitely think Salvage Titan is worth slots, it is resilient to all but StP for maindeck removal. I watched some of the Glimpse deck league and I don't like how all-in the game plan works. Cards like Shield Sphere are really bad unless you specifically have Glimpse whereas Ornithopter carries a Cranial Plating very well.

My whole plan is to create a superior board quickly with a lot of draw power. The best part is that I don't have to be all-in, I can play 2-3 threats and then just reload with a Monitor or Thoughtcast, giving a lot of resiliency. The artifact lands being indestructible is also resiliency because they don't fall to Wasteland or Abrade effects.

Erayo is definitely an option, but every non-artifact card dilutes the synergy. Ways to draw a ton of cards are good, but honestly just having 8 thoughtcasts is bonkers.

One thing I've learned so far is that I don't need 4 copies of Master of Ethereum; three mana is still a lot. Casting and equipping Plating is definitely a priority, especially to a flyer with Ornithopter or Monitor. I find I use all of my mana every turn. Operating so low to the ground also allows for the etb tapped lands to work. Currently my big turns are 2-3, which is fine for g1 in most matchups.

To get in the 3 Salvage Titans i will cut the Welding Jar and 2 Masters. My big worry is that it dilutes the sideboard Force plan, which I think is pretty important to fight combo matchups. I could always board in the other 2 Masters or just find 2 other blue utility cards to get the blue count high enough (20 blue cards post-board.)

These are sideboard cards I'm looking to try out:

Swords to Plowshares
Sudden Edict
Echoing Truth
Flusterstorm
Steel Sabotage
Blue Elemental Blast
Chain of Vapor
Ethersworn Canonist
Disenchant

I feel like the biggest worries are Null Rod and Supreme Verdict. Affinity as a mechanic is actually pretty resilient because I can still play Frogmite, Sojourner, and Enforcer. Having Force of Will seems like the best option for fighting it, along with Steel Sabotage. Sabotage post board also lets me bounce and replay Monitor, which is additional card advantage in the grindier matchups. Supreme Verdict is another conundrum altogether. The velocity is really good, especially with Baubles, but I think some sort of answer is needed. Paradoxical Outcome may be the sideboard tech there. I'm thinking I might need to replace the Citadel/Blinkmoths with basic Islands just to fight through Null Rod/Stony Silence. Or I could just board in Forces and not attempt to truly fight those specific cards, just concede the matchup and focus on improving closer matchups to be more favorable.

Generally, I don't think the format is well positioned to handle a fast artifact aggro deck. The tools are there to fight the hate, too.

Zbynda

07-10-2021, 07:14 PM

Just saw modern version with Neoform into Craterhoof Behemoth. It could be interesting option for combo finish even o T2 with more memnites

Mr. Safety

07-11-2021, 02:27 PM

That's a pretty cool combo, easily accomplished with dropping the 4 Masters and the Welding jar from the original list. It means I have to cut the Salvage Titan plan, or at least put it in the sideboard. I'm not sure about it, but I'm thinking it could be pretty good. I'll test it out, and I could still play forces because Neoform trades blue slots directly with Masters.

Cool find. I like it better than the all-in Glimpse plan but I think it makes the deck weaker to Daze.

Mr. Safety

07-12-2021, 11:47 AM

New lists, with some cards changed to include Salvage Titan. I don't know where Nettlecyst fits into this, simply because it doesn't have evasion and it costs 3 mana. It could be additional Cranial Platings, which seems fine, but functionally it's just another dumb beater that probably costs too much mana. In matchups where I will need to close games fast it could be good, but Salvage Titan already does that. I am fine with only 2 masters in the deck, they were hard to cast by turn 3 anyways. What I need is 3 more anti-combo cards in the board. Without the Force plan I need something to fight those matchups beyond Thoughtseize and Canonist. I don't know if there is merit to splashing into a 4th color like Red or Green. Pyroblast, Abrade, Wear//Tear, and Fling are all red cards that could be ok. Green would provide the Glimpse of Nature plan or Neoform combo. I don't like the glass-cannon feel of those options, I'd rather just be an aggro deck with a great draw engine that can fight through hate. I really need to get the 4th Mox Opal, especially now that having multiples is ok with Salvage Titan eating them up.

4x Ornithopter
1x Memnite
4x Frogmite
4x Myr Enforcer
4x Sojourner's Companion
4x Thought Monitor
3x Salvage Titan
2x Master of Etherium

4x Springleaf Drum
4x Cranial Plating
4x Thoughtcast
3x Mox Opal
4x Lotus Petal

4x Seat of the Synod
4x Mistvault Bridge
4x Razortide Bridge
1x Darksteel Citadel
2x Blinkmoth Nexus

Sideboard
4x Thoughtseize
3x Steel Sabotage
2x Ethersworn Canonist
4x Tormod's Crypt
2x Stubborn Denial

I would love some feedback on what to do out of the sideboard generally. I'm off the Force plan. I think having some sort of tempo play like Thoughtseize, Stubborn Denial, and Steel Sabotage should slow down combo opponents enough to get there, so the next question is how to approach anti-sideboard hate (Null Rod/Stony Silence.)

Vacrix

07-12-2021, 08:33 PM

Copy Artifact could be a nice add to the mainboard, perhaps just 1-3 copies. It makes Master Etherium if you have one already for 1U, or a Thought Monitor. 1U for a 2/2 flying, draw 2, is still quite good. 2-3 mana sources, float mana, Salvage Titan, use the floating mana to 1U another Salvage Titan. My only problem with the card is its good only when you have something.

More interestingly to me, I never noticed til I thought of suggesting it here that it can copy Lion's Eye Diamond. Also, Grim Monolith, Wishclaw Talsiman. Wishclaw, LED, pass, Copy Artifact on LED, 2 LED's gets to 6 for activate Wishclaw into Naus. It can also copy Sphere of Resistance or Tanglewire. I'm thinking of experimenting with it in a blue stax build, in a Naus list, and in some kind of Paradoxical Outcomes list.

Natural State hits the most problematic cards tho it might be better if you alter the mana base a bit. Casting Salvage Titan ideally with artifacts you don't need means you never need to hit BB, similarly with Plating, equip for 1 seems good enough. Nature's Claim is more useful generally but the life gain could matter. Perhaps it doesn't tho with the amount of power you can get on the field in a single turn.

If you want to stay in black, switching to 7-8 discard would work. The deck structure wants as many artifacts as possible so where is your starting mana source anyway if you encounter either of Null Rod or Stony Silence? Seems like the only other option to avoid needing starting mana altogether would be Force of Vigor but then you would have to increase the green count in the maindeck and sideboard to get there. GSZ into Collector Ouphe would still be a problem tho without spot removal. Karn seems like less of a problem since you can just swing into it.

Glimpse of Nature doesn't need to be played as a game winning combo engine. It could be played as a Thoughtcast with a lower floor and a higher ceiling instead. It would increase the count for maindeck green cards for Force of Vigor. Seems like an awful topdeck tho.

Kinnan, Bonder Prodigy is green, its also a legend which means it turns on Mox Amber. It combos with Basalt Monolith for infinite colorless mana. More interesting tho is each non-land permanent adds more mana. Mox Opal, Lotus Petal, Lion's Eye Diamond, Spring Leaf Drum, Mox Amber... so quite a bit. It has a sink as well tho you need colored mana.

The Great Henge is green as well, but Cranial Plating seems like the only reliable way to ensure you get to cast it for GG. If you have plating at 7, I would think you have the win on board already.

Neoform is also in green.. but the additional cost is heavy against permission. Neoform to something at 5 also works with Frogmite.

Staying in blue actually seems to be the easiest way to keep playing the maindeck the way you have it arranged.

EDIT:
Transmute Artifact, "If that card's mana value is less than or equal to the sacrificed artifact's mana value, put it onto the battlefield."

Not exactly sure what to search for but it can find an artifact at as high as 7 cmc, or if you have the mana, you could pay to go higher.
Not as exciting but it can bin Salvage Titan when you don't have a high cmc artifact, and then exile 3 artifact to return Titan to hand.

Mr. Safety

07-13-2021, 08:55 AM

Did a few test games with Salvage Titan, and I won't be including more than 2 copies. In one game it was an aggressive threat but it left me without stuff to feed affinity, which is a big no-no. Timing and sequencing are critical to get the most value out of the cards and I can't be locked into relying on a single aggressive threat t1, I don't have Daze/Force to protect it. It is however very good at creating a lethal board state, easily paid for after my hand is spent playing out affinity cards. I usually sac some mix of lands and Drums to get it online. I also realized how much I was banking on Cranial Plating for fast wins, so I am going to be getting Nettlecyst x2 in there somehow. I don't like that it's 3 mana but the effect is so important that I think I have to bite the bullet and squeeze 2 in.

I'm still waffling on Mishra's Bauble vs Lotus Petal. Petal gives me colored mana for sideboard cards and things like Thoughtcast and Thought Monitor, but by losing the artifact on board it is actually just parity for mana in most cases. Bauble however 'adds' 1 mana and can then be sacrificed for a redraw once I have a stuffed board. I'm leaning towards Bauble for now.

I'm back on 4x Master of Etherium because I was playing against a couple combo decks and I just don't see getting through some matchups without Force of Will. I did really like what Thoughtseize did for the deck, so I may continue to put some number of those into the sideboard, especially for the mid-range blue decks, I need to be able to create a window to win the game. I also need more cards that create lethal board states, to force unfavorable plays from opponents. Master is one of the best ways to do that, making a big threat and pumping the whole team.

New sideboard plan:

4x Force of Will
2x Force of Negation
2x Steel Sabotage
3x Tormod's Crypt
2x Ethersworn Canonist
2x Nettlecyst

I'm also looking at Metallic Rebuke and Ethersworn Sphinx. I think overall Force of Negation is much better than Rebuke, but it's another tool I could use. Ethersworn Sphinx is hefty at 9 mana but I expect to never pay more than UW for it. The cascade is a nice bonus but not essential, the appeal is a 4/4 flyer for 2 mana. I think it's more on a modern-format power level, but maybe not. If it becomes good enough I could see putting some number of Ancient Den back in and Canonist maindeck.

I don't know if I should be playing removal, I haven't tested enough matchups yet. I have the best ones available with Swords to Plowshares, Fatal Push, and Sudden Edict. I just don't know if that is how I want to approach building this.

I'm also looking ahead to see how I would change the deck provided I build around Urza's Saga. I think -4 Mistvault Bridge, -2 Blinkmoth Nexus, -1 Razortide Bridge, +4 Urza's Saga, +3 Darksteel Citadel. That puts me in a spot where I only have 3 tapped artifact lands. I think with that setup I would also need to get the 4th Opal, it would be just too important to enable the constructs from Saga. Some amount of toolboxing would also have to happen, probably including Shadowspear and Pithing Needle. There will always be targets given the deck construction, and it isn't really a focus. The best part of Saga is the constructs.

A crazy thought I had was to try and include Black Vise. It would be a perfectly serviceable t1 play, and if it chips in for 2-3 damage over a couple of turns that should be enough. I like that it feeds affinity and is something I can sacrifice in the midgame to Salvage Titan once it's dead. It's probably too deep into magical christmasland though, because it will be an awful topdeck and only good t1.

Mr. Safety

07-22-2021, 08:29 PM

Made some small adjustments; Salvage titan is out, sacrificing artifacts early for a 6/4 isn't supporting the plan enough. I tried Nettlecyst for a few games, it has the same problem as Master of Ethereum: it costs 1 mana too much. I have cut down to 2 Masters and added 2x Ethersworn Sphinx, which literally casts every other spell in the deck but the other Sphinx. A 4/4 flyer for 2 mana isn't anything to sneeze at, either. I have found that flyers are pretty important in some matchups. I still love the concept of this deck, I would love to test it against more opponents.

Purple Blood

07-23-2021, 07:04 PM

Mr. Safety

07-24-2021, 06:42 PM

I've been messing around with similar lists involving the affinity cards and some combination of Sai, Emry, Vantress Gargoyle, and mill rocks over the zero mana creatures. Frogmite, and the artifact lord. In my experience, those small creatures are only useful for increasing affinity so we're better off running something else that is more useful.

Vantress Gargoyle is an interesting idea, but probably too inconsistent as an aggressive threat. What are the mill rocks doing for you? I could see Lantern of Insight being a spicy addition.

I'm going to probably sub out the Drums for Lotus Petals. It helps with affinity and metal craft but doesn't require a 0 cost dude or frogmite to turn it on. It would also help play sideboard cards like Canonist and Sudden Edict.

Vacrix

07-24-2021, 07:20 PM

One can turn on both Vantress Gargoyle and Lupine Prototype with Dress Down. Surprise swing 10 and cantrip.

Bomat Courier hasn’t been mentioned yet. I think the 4/4s plan is faster than it is. Ideally it draws like 3 cards on turn 3? Bad topdeck, vulnerable to removal.. and the card advantage happens over some turns. It is low to the ground with haste. Perhaps better in a red build with Ragavan for the treasure.

Mr. Safety

07-25-2021, 01:53 PM

Yes, the Frogmites, Enforcers, Companions, and Masters hold the ground admirably. I have found the deck to have a bunch of velocity already with Thoughtcast/Monitor/Bauble so I don't need more card draw from a weak Bomat Courier. Dress Down is a complete waste ir card slots, it's not an artifact and only works with Gargoyle. Gargoyle is very suspect as well, because I will rarely have 4 cards in hand to block and opponents won't neccesarily have threshold. It's just too slow, too many hoops to jump through.

My new list cuts down to 2 springleaf drum and shaves a few slots for Lotus Petal. Petal will help cast sideboard cards, feed affinity synergies, and then add the crucial 3rd mana for Master of ethereum. Overall its going to speed the deck up while still allowing for the indestructible artifact lands to work. I'll post a new list soon, might even play it at a legacy event in September.

Mr. Safety

08-07-2021, 06:34 PM

New list, I think I've settled about 58/60 main deck for now and 13/15 in the side. It is very consistent, has a lot of inevitability built in with explosive turns 2-4.

4x Ornithopter
1x Memnite
4x Frogmite
4x Myr Enforcer
4x Sojourner's Companion
4x Thought Monitor
3x Master of Etherium
3x Ethersworn Sphinx
4x Lotus Petal
3x Mox Opal
4x Mishra's Bauble
4x Thoughtcast
4x Cranial Plating

4x Seat of the Synod
4x Mistveil Bridge
3x Razorverge Bridge
2x Blinkmoth Nexus
1x Karakas

Sideboard
2x Ethersworn Canonist
3x Tormod's Crypt
4x Force of Will
2x Force of Negation
1x Mindbreak Trap
3x Swords to Plowshares

If I can get them, I will be swapping in 4x Urza's Saga for Blinkmoth and Razerverge bridges. I will probably up the land count to 15 as well, probably cutting the Memnite.

FTW

08-08-2021, 05:10 PM

How is the deck performing with that many ETB tapped lands? 7-8 ETB tapped is a lot. Would some Darksteel Citadel be better than the UB lands or Blinkmoths (until you can get Urza's Saga)? Then you still build affinity but get untapped mana.

4th Mox Opal seems good. Between 4 Petal + 4 Opal + 4 tapped UW land, that should be enough color fixing. 16 blue sources and 12 white sources without the UB land.

Instead of Memnite, if you have some open slots left, what about Vault Skirge? It costs 1 mana and carries Plating very well. It seems like your deck may need more in the 1-3 cmc range to bridge the gap to free Frogmites and Enforcers. Skirge does that a lot better than vanilla 1/1 Memnite.

Mr. Safety

08-10-2021, 07:08 PM

I think skirge is ok, but generally not as good as a colorless creature due to being able to block Marit Lage even in the face of Sejiri Steppe. The lifelink isn't that necessary, I frequently finish games at 20 life due to the wall of threats. I haven't faced burn yet, but it isn't a common match-up anymore. I feel very good about how it lines up against most of the popular decks currently. The forces out of the board are very good at fighting combo decks, especially if I can use something besides the draw cards feed them. Recouping cards is a feature I really like with Thoughtcast/Monitor.

The etb tapped lands only slow me down about 1/2 a turn, and I frequently get t1 Frogmites and turn 2 Enforcers. In general, the resilience of the mana base and the inevitability i can develop are very good. Darksteel Citadel doesn't make blue mana, I cut it early on. This deck isn't as fast as some versions of Affinity or other dedicated aggro decks, but t4 is generally when I'm finishing the game. T3 happens if I can get Cranial Plating online. T1-2 are for setup, t3-4 are explosive turns where I start drawing extra cards and playing more threats.

The real test will be at a 1k coming up in September. I will learn quite a bit about how to tweak it after having a real play environment.

The way games go are:
T1 - artifact land, 1-3 zero cast artifacts, frogmite/thoughtcast
T2 - play any threats I can, cranial plating
T3 - thoughtcast, thought monitor, master of etherium, free Enforcers/Companions, often develop a lethal board state (roughly 60% of the time)
T4 - same as t3 but often with Ethersworn Sphinx in the mix.

It plays a lot like goblins or merfolk, but a little faster and with more draw power. Post board it is quite a bit like merfolk with the forces, and it can hold down combo decks nicely without slowing down the clock more than 1 turn.

One card on my mind:Ghirapur Aether Grid. I could easily drop the UB lands for UR lands. It could easily bea way to really grind out games and have some absurd interaction against some decks (elves, d&t, ur delver.) All of the deck turns into a machine gun, which can control small creatures and give reach. If I understand the card correctly, it even works with Karn or Null Rod on the battlefield, because I'm not activating artifacts, just tapping them to activate Grid. Red gives me a few more options in the sideboard as well, maybe for Pyroblast or artifact hate. Hell, I might even put in Blood Moon.

Mr. Safety

08-15-2021, 09:44 AM

So I've organized the suggestions and will be testing them soon.

1) Cutting to only 4 taplands and playing Darksteel Citadel x4. I don't like that it doesn't make blue mana, but it accelerates all the colorless Affinity cards really well.
2) Trying to get the 4th Opal, and also seeing if I can get 3 more Ancient Tomb + 4x Chalice of the Void. Moving forward I think this is the biggest upgrade, even more than Urza's Saga.
3) Arcbound Ravager and Urza's Saga to make the deck more powerful.

I think at the very least I will do #1 for the 1k coming up. It makes the most sense; my only worry is not having UU during some turns to double up Thoughtcast/monitor.

Mr. Safety

08-19-2021, 12:41 PM

I'm going a little deep, but I really want to play Black Vise. It feeds Affinity synergies and is very aggressive t1. It can also be used to tap for Ghirapur Aether Grid, which gives reach and board control. It means I have to cut some of the Enforcers/Companions, but they were the hardest to enable already (even with 19-20 zero drop artifacts and 14 artifact lands.) I think I will keep the core of the cheap dudes, Baubles, Petals, and the 8 thoughtcast effects. Then I add Ghirapur Aether Grid and Black Vise instead of the Enforcers. I'm not sure if that is where I want to be, but it seems spicy and fun.

Here is my rough draft:

4x memnite
4x Ornithopter
4x frogmite
4x thought monitor
4x master of etherium

4x lotus petal
4x Mishra's Bauble
3x mox opal
4x black vise
4x cranial plating
4x thoughtcast
3x Ghirapur Aether Grid

4x seat of the synod
4x silverbluff bridge
4x razerverge bridge
1x great Furnace
1x karakas

Sideboard
4x force of will
2x force of negation
2x brazen borrower
3x tormod's crypt
2x prismatic ending
2x ethersworn canonist

Depending on the match-up, I have 7 sideboard slots ready to go (Vise/Grid) and I have 8 blue cards to bring in to turn on the Forces. The hostile cards are all the same (Null Rod, Stony Silence, Karn TGC, Collector Ouphe.) The same matches will be good, and the same match-ups will be bad. Not sure if I need Canonist in the sideboard with 6 forces, that may turn into something else. Prismatic ending as a sorcery seems pretty sketchy, too. It won't ever answer any of the hateful permanents.

I'm also tempted to drop Vice/masters for Thopter/Sword, but that hasn't been good in ages. I do like me bad decks though, so there's that...

Reeplcheep

08-19-2021, 02:40 PM

Black vise makes the LED echo package attractive...

FTW

08-19-2021, 06:09 PM

Black vise makes the LED echo package attractive...

You get to Lightning Bolt them at the expense of refilling them 3-7 extra cards in hand? Seems much much worse than comboing LED+echo with Hullbreacher or Narset.

If you play Vise in Affinity, the concerns are how to get value out of it after opponents' hand is small. Affinity spells, Cranial Plating and Ghirapur Aether Grid are good sources of value for a dead Vise. It's probably better than Baubles.

Mr. Safety

08-19-2021, 09:18 PM

You get to Lightning Bolt them at the expense of refilling them 3-7 extra cards in hand? Seems much much worse than comboing LED+echo with Hullbreacher or Narset.

If you play Vise in Affinity, the concerns are how to get value out of it after opponents' hand is small. Affinity spells, Cranial Plating and Ghirapur Aether Grid are good sources of value for a dead Vise. It's probably better than Baubles.

That's my thinking...if Vise deals 4 damage during a game (assuming t1) and then it taps for Grid to ping small creatures or provide reach then it makes sense. It's also likely to be the first cut for sideboard games, especially on the draw. I probably won't cut Baubles, they continue to impress me with what they provide for the deck. My next pivotal decision is whether to support forces in the sideboard with Masters main deck or to just go with other sideboard options. So far the Forces have been very good.

Cursed Scroll seems ok as well, maybe better than GAG. I'm also concerned that cutting the 4/4's may make the deck too anemic; stabilizing t3-4 with a pair of Enforcers is definitely one way the deck has shown resilience.

Mr. Safety

08-21-2021, 08:04 PM

I am rethinking Springleaf drum now that I have 4 memnites. That gives me 8 free dudes t1 to enable it, and it provides colored mana for the draw spells and Masters. The only place I can really cut is Mishra's Bauble, which is fine. Bauble was a free redraw while enabling metalcraft, and feeding Affinity, but as an actual draw spell was pretty slow. I have cobbled another list that puts Drums back in along with Ethersworn Sphinx again, because I have a bunch of sources of colored mana now. Grid is still in the sideboard and I cut the Vises, without even trying them. I just don't like the variance. I am testing a couple Cursed Scroll for mana sinks/reach. I get hellbent often by t3, and even with the draw 2 spells I usually play those drawn cards out, too.

4x memnite
4x Ornithopter
4x frogmite
4x thought monitor
4x master of etherium
4x myr enforcer
2x ethersworn Sphinx
4x lotus petal
3x springleaf drum
3x mox opal
4x cranial plating
4x thoughtcast
2x cursed Scroll

4x seat of the synod
4x silverbluff bridge
4x razerverge bridge
1x ancient tomb
1x karakas

Sideboard
4x force of will
2x force of negation
4x tormod's crypt
3x Ghirapur Aether Grid
2x open (thinking wear/tear)

Mr. Safety

09-03-2021, 02:02 PM

Made some small changes to the above list, streamlining the mana really well and getting it more stable. I have dropped the red for now, but I can always revisit it if I'm running into situations where Grid, Pyroblast, or other red cards are necessary. For now, white seems correct alongside the blue engine. I still like Ethersworn Sphinx; it doesn't snowball as consistently as Thoughtcast/monitor but occasionally it's the nuts. Again, floor of 4/4 flyer for 2 mana along with extra value.

4x Ornithopter
4x memnite
4x frogmite
4x thought monitor
4x master of etherium
4x myr enforcer
3x sojourner's companion
2x ethersworn Sphinx

3x mox opal
4x springleaf drum
4x thoughtcast
4x cranial plating
2x cursed Scroll

4x darksteel Citadel
4x seat of the synod
4x razerverge bridge
1x ancient den
1x karakas

Sideboard
4x force of will
2x force of negation
1x brazen borrower
3x tormod's crypt
3x swords to plowshares
2x prismatic ending

I have been doing some basic testing and the deck is really smooth, if a turn slower than most of the combo decks. The forces out of the board are quite good. The main concern is still Null Rod/Stony Silence, but decks like Sneak/Show and Elves still seem to be problematic. I'm unsure if I should be playing more combo hate like Canonist in the board, and I also worry that Ending is a sorcery. Overall I think its probably one of the most versatile sideboard cards available though.

Reeplcheep

09-03-2021, 02:43 PM

If you want to shore up your combo matchups, can you squeeze in esper sentinel or lodestone golem MD?

Mr. Safety

09-03-2021, 04:57 PM

If you want to shore up your combo matchups, can you squeeze in esper sentinel or lodestone golem MD?

Thanks for helping me with my bad deck! 🙂

I could play maindeck Canonist and I have a full set of Lodetone. I like Golem a lot, and its a card I forget about because it doesn't see much play. Four mana is pretty steep, but not impossible. It would be a turn 3-4 play. I think I would need some number of Ancient Tomb.

Esper Sentinel helps against combo how? It draws me cards, but as a threat its fairly anemic. I think Canonist is better and the sideboard forces are clutch. Cutting a couple cards for main deck canonist is easy, the flex slots are the additional Enforcers/Companions and the Cursed Scrolls. Squeezing in Lodestone golem is a lot harder, not sure about that. Maybe the sojourners companions can go. I really want to maintain the 14 maindeck blue cards, so Masters have to stay. If I cut Ethersworn Sphinx I would need another blue card to compensate.

I really appreciate the help, I think Golem will probably be good, especially against the hyper efficiency that is dominant in legacy currently. It also hits hard, which is exactly what I want. I'll throw it together and get some idea of how it would go.

Edit: list
4x memnite
4x Ornithopter
4x frogmite
4x thought monitor
4x master of etherium
4x myr enforcer
3x lodestone golem
2x ethersworn Sphinx
2x ethersworn canonist

4x springleaf drum
3x mox opal
4x cranial plating
4x thoughtcast

4x seat of the synod
4x ancient den
4x razerverge bridge
1x karakas
1x ancient tomb

Sideboard
4x force of will
2x force of negation
1x brazen borrower
3x tormod's crypt
3x swords to plowshares
2x prismatic ending

adrieng

09-06-2021, 11:07 AM

here is my latest build, the deck crushes urdelver, snow miracle and yorion death and taxes.

though the deck loses to hate and combo is hard to beat especially doomsday

You have to play saga in affinity,

walker is better than memnite it dies to less stuff.

Also i have found we don't want more than 8 0 cc guys other way lots of hands do nothing

also a deck close to mine won the last big tornament

here is the deck that won last stuff :

4 Emry, Lurker of the Loch
4 Sai, Master Thopterist
4 Thought Monitor

4 Echo of Eons
4 Thoughtcast

4 Force of Will

4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
4 Mishra's Bauble
4 Mox Opal
1 Retrofitter Foundry
1 Shadowspear
4 Urza's Bauble

4 Ancient Tomb
4 Seat of the Synod
2 Snow-Covered Island
4 Urza's Saga

2 Dismember
2 Engineered Explosives
1 Expedition Map
4 Force of Negation
1 Hydroblast
1 Pithing Needle
1 Soul-Guide Lantern
3 Surgical Extraction

Mr. Headshot

09-06-2021, 12:29 PM

I would change:
3xspringleaf drum into 3xlotus petal (Faster + easier to setup chalice on turn 1; works beter with chalice on 1 on the battlefield)
4xphyrexian Walker into 4xmishra's bauble (works great with emry; is as fast as Walker.)

I don't like ratched bomb because it doesnt offer a solution to a resolved ouphe or null rod. Our greatest fear, together with meltdown. For which match-ups you want them?

The rest of your decklist looks great. Have you done any testing yet?

adrieng

09-06-2021, 01:00 PM

yeah did a lot of testing springleaf drum is better than petal, you keep more hands with them.

Phyrexian walker is better with drums than bauble.

Also was playing explosives in side but ratchet bomb is better against chalice@0 than explosives especially against moon stompy.

As i said deck beats snow control ur delver detah and taxes.

Resculpt is here for null rod or ouphe. Maybe dismember is better.

Went 3-2 in last tornament beat bant control omnishow br reanimator then lost to moon stompy in 3 (was playing ee and no rescupt) and lost to opposition elf in 3

Mr. Safety

09-07-2021, 04:25 PM

Meltdown doesn't hit Myr Enforcer, Sojourners companion, ethersworn Sphinx, and usually won't even hit Frogmite or Master of Etherium. The point of my build is to go wide with a draw engine (thoughtcast/monitor) into free threats. Urza's Saga is good for sure, likely the first upgrade i will make. In my particular budget build, Drum is better than petal because it sticks around and feeds cranial plating and the Affinity dudes.

If you are playing sol lands and chalice that is Steel Stompy. If you guys are interested in pursuing lists in that vein I respectfully ask you to join that thread.

FistaCuffSmith

09-07-2021, 09:19 PM

What are the thoughts around the affinity deck that was in the recent 5-0 deck dump?

For reference:

1 Bomat Courier
3 Emry, Lurker of the Loch
4 Ethersworn Canonist
4 Ornithopter
4 Thought Monitor
4 Thoughtcast
4 Dispatch
1 Aether Spellbomb
4 Cranial Plating
1 Mishra's Bauble
4 Mox Opal
1 Pithing Needle
1 Shadowspear
4 Springleaf Drum
4 Ancient Den
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Spire of Industry
4 Urza's Saga
4 Memnite

Sideboard
1 Pithing Needle
1 Flusterstorm
4 Metallic Rebuke
3 Prismatic Ending
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Swords to Plowshares
1 Tormod's Crypt

Mr. Safety

09-08-2021, 01:05 PM

It's pretty cool, I like it. The only hard hitters are Saga tokens and Cranial Plating, which is probably good enough, it just feels like the format is able to handle those for the most part. That's why I like Masters and the Affinity dudes, they are beefy but also reward the draw engine by also going wide.

Unfortunately, the legacy event I was going to test has been canceled. I'm still trying to get ahold of Sagas and Chalice (if I ever decide to go the Stompy route instead of pure aggro.)

FistaCuffSmith

09-08-2021, 04:36 PM

Could always throw in a nettlecyst and take out 1 Canonist. I kind of like the prison it creates for opponents, but it's easily removed.

Mr. Safety

09-10-2021, 08:03 PM

I go back and forth on Nettlecyst. Its not as efficient as Cranial Plating and I can get the same big dude effect with Masters, which also pump up the team. Masters are blue for sideboard forces, too.

I look at the metagame share of Stompy/prison and Chalice is at a pretty low point. I'd rather snowball as an aggro deck and have a solid combo attacking sideboard.

I'm looking at possibly using Meddling Mage in the sideboard as well, which should really give an edge in some matchups.

Mr. Safety

09-12-2021, 12:21 PM

FTW

09-13-2021, 05:44 AM

I am tempted to cut the Ethersworn Sphinx's and play a pair of Paradoxical Outcome. For this to work i need as many free artifact spells as possible, so I would rework the list to include full sets of Enforcer/Companion and possibly more zero drops. I would want to be drawing at least 4-5 cards and have ways of getting them back down. The next question would be how to make that pay off. I'm not sure exactly yet, but there has to be something juicy.

That seems like a very different deck, one that probably wants Mystic Forge to also cast all the free spells off the top.

e.g.

//Artifacts: 18
4 Lotus Petal
4 Mox Opal
4 Springleaf Drum
1 Pithing Needle
1 Aether Spellbomb
1 Shadowspear
3 Mystic Forge

//Creatures: 20
4 Ornithopter
4 Memnite
4 Frogmite
4 Sojourner's Companion
4 Thought Monitor

//Spells: 6
4 Thoughtcast
2 Paradoxical Outcome

//Lands: 16
4 Urza's Saga
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Darksteel Citadel
4 Island

//Sideboard: 15
1 Relic of Progenitus
3 Tormod's Crypt
4 Nettlecyst
4 Metallic Rebuke
1 Flusterstorm
2 Dismember

The problem with this strategy is that to make room for Outcome/Forge you can't cut 0-drops, so you have to cut business. The deck then gets very good at drawing cards but becomes worse at playing aggro. If you cut 0 drops instead, it loses the gas to make the engine work. I think your aggro plan is better than this.

FTW

09-13-2021, 01:53 PM

Mr. Safety

09-13-2021, 07:10 PM

Good responses, I did see the Emry list. Replaying Monitors sounds really good, along with the dig and body.

Mr. Safety

02-16-2022, 06:59 PM

I'm working on this deck again, definitely including Kappa Cannoneer and Reality Heist. I think they are both really powerful in this shell due to the amount of speed in the affinity engine. The cards drawn will be addition threats in the form of more Companions/Enforcers/Frogmites. Dig through Time for artifacts? Sign me up!

Daniel Worobec

02-22-2022, 06:08 PM

This 5-0 list looks good. It's a hybrid of Emry Stompy and Affinity
https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/mtgo-standings/legacy-league-2021-09-11#minest_-

//Lands: 14
4 Urza's Saga
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Ancient Tomb
2 Snow-Covered Island

//Baubles: 22
4 Mishra's Bauble
4 Urza's Bauble
4 Lotus Petal
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Mox Opal
1 Shadowspear
1 Retrofitter Foundry

//Creatures: 12
4 Emry, Lurker of the Loch
4 Sai, Master Thopterist
4 Thought Monitor

//Spells: 12
4 Force of Will
4 Thoughtcast
4 Echo of Eons

//Sideboard: 15
4 Force of Negation
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Dismember
2 Engineered Explosives
1 Pithing Needle
1 Soul-Guide Lantern
1 Expedition Map
1 Hullbreacher

https://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=548372&type=card https://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=443112&type=card

The decklist is most impressive. I would like to nominate The Reality Chip and Mox Amber to be experimented with. The Reality Chip is much like Mystic Forge that I have been working with that can enable you to play a large amount of cards and has several synergies. Mox Amber can be added if there are a combination of The Reality Chip, Emry, Lurker of the Loch and Sai, Master Thopterist in the deck.

Reeplcheep

02-23-2022, 08:46 AM

Is reality chip a better legendary than erayo or Urza? Erayo requires no additional mana investment and urza plays better against hate.

Also the kappa cannoneer is absurd and pulls you away from legendaries.

Reeplcheep

02-23-2022, 09:10 AM

Daniel Worobec

02-23-2022, 05:14 PM

But then I say to myself, why not both?

Legendary blue artifacts.

4 Emry, Lurker or the Loch
4 Erayo, soratami ascendant
4 Reality Chip
2 Sai, Master Thopterist

4 Thoughtcast
4 Force of Will

4 Lotus Petal
4 Mishra’s Bauble
4 Urza’s Bauble
3 Mox Amber
4 Mox Opal
1 Soulguide Lantern
1 Retrofitter Foundry
1 Shadowspear

3 Ancient Tomb
1 Island
3 Ottawara, Soaring City
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Urza’s Saga

Compared to the kappa list from this weekend (https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/mtgo-standings/legacy-challenge-2022-02-21#themightywizbit_th_place) you have erayo over chalice (maybe better vs hate, less non-boes, improves blue count), reality chip over kappa (a definite downgrade) and mox amber over the least important saga targets (probably an upgrade). You are a lot worse at killing the opponent but can afford more generic interaction (more legendaries for ottawara, enough blue to support 4 fow)

Erayo, Soratami Ascendant I think is good as a one or two of because you can only have one of in play, it takes a very specific sequence of things to happen in order for it to flip and the opponent can play around it though it is still an effective card in the deck. I am thinking Chalice of the Void is good because it costs colorless mana, it can effect the abilities of all the win conditions in addition to having synergies with half of the deck and has a proven track record. I think one The Reality Chip is necessary because you can only use one, it is dependent upon a creature and costs five mana to use.

The following decklist (by me) is a good balance of strong aggression, an abundance of card advantage and an effective amount of disruption while being synergistic.

4x Kappa Cannoneer (Probably the strongest Win Condition in the deck)
4x Sai, Master Thopterist (Another win condition, card advantage, synergy)
4x Emry, Lurker of the Loch (Card advantage, gets back artifacts, synergy)
1x The Reality Chip (Card advantage, synergy)
4x Thoughtcast (Card advantage, synergy)
4x Force of Will (Disruption, protection, enough blue cards to support)

4x Chalice of the Void (Disruption, synergy)
4x Mox Opal (mana, support artifact)
4x Lotus Petal (mana, support artifact)
1x Mox Amber (mana, support artifact)
1x Chrome Mox (mana, support artifact)
4x Mishra’s Bauble (10x card draw, information, support artifact)
4x Urza’s Bauble
2x Lodestone Bauble

4x Seat of the Synod (mana, support artifact)
4x Ancient Tomb (mana)
4x Urza’s Saga (mana, another win condition, card advantage)
2x Otawara, Soaring City (mana, disruption)
1x Island (mana)

Reeplcheep

02-24-2022, 01:00 PM

Daniel Worobec

02-24-2022, 07:42 PM

Without enough legendaries to justify multiple mox amber and enough mox ambers to justify the extra legendaries, I am worried this is just a bad stock list. Are the cute one ofs better than a couple thought monitors and saga targets of the stock list (foundry, shadowspear, soulguide, needle etc)?

Kappa Cannoneer I believe has significantly changed this deck. The deck list I provided in my last post is focused around getting Kappa Cannoneer out fast and/or getting Sai, Master Thopterist out fast and generating Thopter Tokens. Urza’s Saga is used as a secondary win condition.

I only recommend one Mox Amber because it is a secondary blue mana source, by the time you already have a Legendary Creature on the battlefield you should already have a blue mana source. Mox Amber by itself cannot produce the mana needed to start the deck off.

The deck list has numerous one drop artifacts because it helps to power Improvise and Affinity. The largest mana cost in the deck is Sai, Master Thopterist and can be managed to be cast on turn one with many follow up zero drops. The deck is built around zero drops for alternate casting strategies, card advantage, and fast creatures with some disruption to slow down the opponent.

I did not include Thought Monitor because I think it is too slow and you don’t really need a 2/2 that much now that Kappa Cannoneer can be used and the rest of the deck has enough card advantage to work quite well.

I think Retrofitter Foundry is obsolete now that Kappa Cannoneer exists. To get a benefit of Retrofitter Foundry you have to have both it, Sai, Master Thopterist and a Thopter Token on the battlefield to use. Going through all this trouble to get a 4/4 may been too much and using the rest of the card is slow. Getting onto the battlefield with Urza’s Saga I believe is too slow as well. Chalice of the Void with one counter on it is also something to consider.

I believe Soul-Guide Lantern and Shadowspear are too situational to be useful and can also get in the way of Chalice of the Void in addition to costing mana. You can sideboard situational cards in later.

Maybe Pithing Needle can be added to the main deck since it has proven to be useful against most decks but still situational and Chalice of the Void gets in the way.

Mr. Safety

02-25-2022, 05:46 PM

I think for a good aggressive deck with Kappas the whole midrange/legendary approach is too distracting. Better to just play an Emry/traditional 8cast build. My budget version doesn't need Mox Amber, not with Opals and Drums.

I do however love the Erayo idea, it should be pretty easy to enable and can steal some games.

Firefraise

03-09-2022, 07:52 AM

Hi,

It 's been ages since I posted in The Source. The printing of Cannoneer Kappa inspired me to play legacy again, so here's my take. I don't have a sideboard yet, my last legacy game was 5 years ago I don't know much of the meta. Patchwork Automaton is a faster and more fragile Kappa Cannoneer, it seems great in Vintage and playable here. A sol land, then Kappa and a few baubles looks like a nice first turn. I like Kappa/Patchwork and Paradoxical Outcome for the killing blow.

Urza's Saga *4 Mana + win con
Seat of the Synod *4
City of Traitors *4
Ancient Tomb *4
Kappa Cannoneer *4 win con
Mox Opal*4
Urza's Bauble *4
Mishra's Bauble *4
Lotus Petal *4
Artificer's Assistant *4
Grim Monolith *4
Repeal *4 protection + let us recast 0 mana value artifacts, or grim monolith if need be
Patchwork Automaton *4 win con
Paradoxical Outcome *4 win con
Force of Will *4

Final Fortune

04-13-2022, 02:42 AM

FTW

04-13-2022, 12:28 PM

Final Fortune

04-14-2022, 11:34 AM

Is Emry better than some of the other affinity creatures (also boosting blue count for FoW)? Or are you just on 4/4 beatdown.dec?

For those SB slots, consider Saga targets: Pithing Needle, Grafdigger's Cage, Aether Spellbomb, ...

Is Nettlecyst better than Cranial Plating now?

Is Emry better than some of the other affinity creatures (also boosting blue count for FoW)? Or are you just on 4/4 beatdown.dec?

For those SB slots, consider Saga targets: Pithing Needle, Grafdigger's Cage, Aether Spellbomb, ...

Is Nettlecyst better than Cranial Plating now?

I don't think Nettlecyst competes with Cranial Plating's spot at all, because Nettlecyst is more of a combination of Master of Ethereum and Urza's Saga in a single card than it is unblockable, instant speed burst damage. To me, I'd rather cut Kappa Cannoneer for Nettlecyst as a difficult to remove, scalable threat, but one that doesn't require me to have blue mana or spend creatures to play it. I'm iterating on several lists to see what's better in practice, as I feel Nettlecyst, Master of Etherium and Kappa Cannoneer are all great cards, but it comes down to whether or not I want to play more threats or keep the Thoughtcast and Thoughtmonitor engine. The value of black mana is extremely high in Affinity for Cranial Plating's activated ability, but the value of blue is arguable, as I could just run Phyrexian Ravager, Walking Ballista or Patchwork Automoton to turn into a colorless aggro deck with a better SB color for removal - green. Thoughtmonitor simply isn't Thoughtcast in terms of its ability to come down on turn 1, and by turn 2 you could be scaling into 3 mana for the fatties.

Next iteration looks like,

-4 Kappa Cannoneer
+4 Nettlecyst

I really don't get everyone's obsession with Lotus Petal, while it's a fine enabler and accelerator it doesn't mana ramp the deck up into a sustainable 3 mana to keep pumping out Urza tokens. My main issue with Kappa Cannoneer is that he's an off tempo threat and slow(er) to scale up for evasive beats, and the thing is Cranial Plating has evasive beats covered if you can Zerg into the enemy and hit double Black, while all of the 3cc cards are better on defense - also they fight through Terminus. The SB only needs 7 blue cards to support Force of Will at 15, and I think cutting Springleaf Drum and Nettlecyst are the obvious choices for the matchups where you want them - leaving Leyline and Chalice of the Void for the "okie dokie."

A lot of you seem to be drowning in the "danger of cool things" Blue cards, IMO, the deck can go wide, go tall, slip through or grind up without Time Walking your opponent with Kappa Cannoneer or getting choked for Blue mana on banalities.

Mr. Safety

04-20-2022, 07:21 PM

Crushing it with Affinity Aggro in the kitchen,

MD
4 Sojourner's Companion
4 Myr Enforcer
4 Frogmite
4 Ornithopter
4 Memnite
4 Thought Monitor
4 Thoughtcast
4 Nettlecyst
4 Cranial Plating
4 Springleaf Drum
4 Mox Opal
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Darksteel Citadel
4 Vault of Whispers
4 Urza's Saga
SB
4 Force of Will
3 ???
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Leyline of the Void

I have had various thoughts on this archetype, mainly weather or not to use more or less blue cards to support Force of Will or take the pressure off of the blue manabase. Thought Monitor can be clunky compared to Thoughtcast, as the additional 2 mana is hardly worth the 2/2 flyer compared to a more robust threat like Arcbound Ravager. People always assume you SB Force of Will, and while you can I certainly prefer to play my Aggro Deck without counterspells in order to maintain velocity - the threat of boarding it in is possibly better than the reality of doing so. I think Tormod's Crypt as hate leans too heavily into artifact removal, and the deck is better off throwing the format a curve ball with Leyline of the Void.

Love it, it's the kind of setup I started with. I'm trying to get a full set of Kappa Cannoneer (found 2 so far) to get the blue count higher maindeck. It's definitely better than nettlecyst, which was clunky for me. I made the blue count in the sideboard with 4x FoW, 2x Force of Negation, 2x Brazen Borrower, along with 12 maindeck blue cards. I don't really like the Leyline plan, not when Urza's Saga is so efficient at nabbing cheap grave hate. This deck has a surprising amount of velocity, so finding Sideboard cards in enough time to count is realistic. Leylines also pressures you into worse mulligan decisions, something that is already challenging without Thoughtcast/Monitor in the opening hand.

I waffle on Chalice of the Void, mostly because without Ancient Tombs it is harder to support.

Kappa Cannoneer, from all reports I've read or heard, is the stone cold nuts. Nettlecyst is powerful for sure, it's just that Plating is more efficient as an equipment while Cannoneer has protection, grows, and is unblockable. Maybe it isn't a 4-of, but having access to Cannoneer seems good to me.

You want to talk danger of cool cards? I was trying Ethersworn Sphinx when it first came out, lol. It even cascades into Enforcer/Companion! I jest, it was hard to cast at UW and it sometimes just cascaded into just a Memnite.

Final Fortune

05-10-2022, 07:33 AM

Finally, landed on a version that I am completely happy with.

MD
4 Sojourner's Companion
4 Myr Enforcer
4 Frogmite
4 Ornithopter
4 Memnite
4 Kappa Cannoneer
4 Echo of Eons
4 Thoughtcast
4 Cranial Plating
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Mox Opal
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Vault of Secrets
4 Darksteel Citadel
4 Urza's Saga

SB
4 Force of Will
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Tormod's Crypt
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Pithing Needle
1 Cursed Scroll

The main thing is deciding between Echo of Eons and Lion's Eye Diamond or Thought Monitor and Lotus Petal, where Lion's Eye Diamond fuels both Echo of Eon's and Cranial Plating activations and Lotus Petal powers out blue cards, Chalice of the Void and Cranial Plating.

Here is a monoblack, colorless build as well.

MD
4 Sojourner's Companion
4 Myr Enforcer
4 Frogmite
4 Ornithopter
4 Memnite
4 Phyrexian Ravager
4 Phyrexian Walker
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Cranial Plating
4 Mox Opal
4 Lotus Petal
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Urza's Saga
4 Vault of Secrets
4 Darksteel Citadel

SB
4 Leyline of the Void
4 Thorn of Amethyst
4 Sphere of Resistance
1 Pithing Needle
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Cursed Scroll

Mr. Safety

05-13-2022, 12:27 PM

I'm going to try your first version, but take your alternate route with Lotus Petal/Monitor (I don't have LEDs.) I really like it, especially the Force Sideboard and Scroll tech.

Final Fortune

05-17-2022, 09:22 AM

I'm going to try your first version, but take your alternate route with Lotus Petal/Monitor (I don't have LEDs.) I really like it, especially the Force Sideboard and Scroll tech.

Petal seems better than Drum, good luck with it.

Edit: Thought Monitor and Lotus Petal version appears quite decent, it supports Force of Will and Chalice of the Void a lot better than I would have first believed.

BullBar

07-11-2022, 04:05 AM

Advocate checking Michiko's Reign of Truth in some/most of the Cranial Plating slots. You can get the deck so aggro building along Erayo/Emry synergy lines that all the Thoughtcasts seem too slow ;^D

Mr. Safety

07-24-2022, 03:41 PM

Is Erayo a potential Sideboard plan? I'm thinking as a way to get the blue count higher whole also providing a soft lock alongside Ethersworn canonist. Aggro g1, prison g2 but leaving in Cannoneer to still close games fast.

Whoshim

09-10-2022, 11:50 PM

4 Spire of Industry
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Ancient Den
4 Darksteel Citadel
4 Mishra’s Factory

4 Memnite
4 Ornithopter
4 Arcbound Worker
4 Frogmite
4 Thought Monitor
4 Sojourner’s Companion

4 Michiko’s Reign of Truth
4 Cranial Plating
1 Nettlecyst

3 Springleaf Drum
4 Thoughtcast

My son went 3-1 at a local event with the above list. He didn't use the sideboard much except for 2 Tormod's Crypt and 2 Nether Spellbomb, so we will adjust for the future. He beat UR Delver, Dredge (me), and another list. He lost to HelmLine in his last match due to Karn, the Great Creator.

Edit: The main deck costs less than $70 according to mtggoldfish (and 15 tix on mtgo), so this is slightly cheaper than Manaless Dredge in paper and slightly more expensive on mtgo (excluding sideboards).

Mr. Safety

09-11-2022, 04:38 PM

Excellent! I feel that the core of 8cast aggro is pretty competitive. I am still tweaking on occasion. My next test is Lotus Petal over Springleaf drum. Drum feeds Affinity and plating, petal allows for more explosive starts. I am also trying 2x Ethersworn Sphinx over 2x myr enforcer, it's a blue card for sideboard forces and it always cascades into something useful, occasionally Monitor or Thoughtcast to really take off.

My current list:

4x Ornithopter
4x memnite
4x frogmite
4x Sojourner's Companion
4x thought monitor
4x Kappa Cannoneer
2x ethersworn Sphinx
4x springleaf drum
3x mox opal
4x cranial plating
4x thoughtcast
1x cursed Scroll
1x Aether spellbomb
2x welding jar

4x seat of the synod
4x ancient den
4x darksteel citadel
3x Urza's Saga

Sideboard
4x force of will
2x force of negation
1x hurkyl's recall
1x reality Heist
1x pithing needle
1x grafdigger's cage
1x tormod's crypt
1x soul guide lantern
3x swords to plowshares