Innistrad Crimson Vow: A Red Wedding That Won't Dissapoint! [Archive]

Barook

10-28-2021, 02:21 PM

https://i.imgur.com/KQWvmPy.jpeg

Not sure this Dark Confidant impersonator is worth 4 mana, but right off that bat, it doesn't seem terrible, at least.
Card draw and token generator? Sounds alright.

Evasive lifelink tokens could potentially be very good. Definitely a card worth testing.

http://mythicspoiler.com/vow/cards/weddingring.jpg

I wonder if there are ways to break this card.

I'm also disappointed that the original Thalia got reprinted. Great for Standard, but I wanted to see a new version. White needs better weenies.

10-28-2021, 02:34 PM

White needs better weenies.

https://i.imgur.com/Rp25Z38.png

This card doesn't seem terrible. Seems like something you can pair fairly well with Vial/Flickerwisp, since 'Wisp can EOT temporarily remove a blocker and then your next attack can remove another with the Savior. On your next attack you can snag the thing you 'Wisped too, since Savior's power would still only be 2.

PirateKing

10-28-2021, 02:59 PM

https://i.imgur.com/Rp25Z38.png

This card doesn't seem terrible. Seems like something you can pair fairly well with Vial/Flickerwisp, since 'Wisp can EOT temporarily remove a blocker and then your next attack can remove another with the Savior. On your next attack you can snag the thing you 'Wisped too, since Savior's power would still only be 2.

As another variation of Oblivion Ring effect it's fine.

I'm really wondering why they went with this weird pseudo-reanimation effect. I attack and exile my own Avacyn, Angel of Hope or whatever from the graveyard, then when this dies I get it back?
Then this turns into a little army in a bottle that when it pops you get a whole bunch of dead dudes all at once.

Cire

10-28-2021, 03:40 PM

I wonder if there are ways to break this card.

Burning Inquiry? Notion Thief 5-8?

Edit: NVM - forgot it creates a copy - so opponent also draws. . . . nvm

Barook

10-28-2021, 03:43 PM

As another variation of Oblivion Ring effect it's fine.
It's a 3 mana Squire that sits on its ass for an entire turn and needs another 2+ power creature to do anything. If it gets rolling, it sounds good, but I'm sceptical about it.

The reanimation part could be interesting with the plainscyclers like Timeless Dragon/Angel of the Ruins. But those are quite a few hoops to jump through.

Zoid

10-28-2021, 07:10 PM

http://mythicspoiler.com/vow/cards/weddingring.jpg

I wonder if there are ways to break this card.

Has some good jank material with Smothering Tithe.

Otherwise:
Narset? Leovold? Hull Breacher?

https://mythicspoiler.com/vow/cards/changeoffortune.jpg

This on the other hand seems very easy to break.

Barook

10-28-2021, 07:24 PM

Has some good jank material with Smothering Tithe.

Otherwise:
Narset? Leovold? Hull Breacher?
Hull Breacher with a draw 7 is nice. You would get 14 treasure tokens this way. But then again, you should already be winning at that point anyway.

Change of Fortune definitely seems breakable. Aside from the usual LED shenanigans, it's worth pointing out that it also gets charged by cycling.

Fox

10-28-2021, 07:27 PM

I feel like you trigger Ring, giving them a copy and then sac your ring.

Zoid

10-28-2021, 07:33 PM

Hull Breacher with a draw 7 is nice. You would get 14 treasure tokens this way. But then again, you should already be winning at that point anyway.

Change of Fortune definitely seems breakable. Aside from the usual LED shenanigans, it's worth pointing out that it also gets charged by cycling.

Why 14?

Note that the draw only works if cards are drawn during a players turn.

I feel like you trigger Ring, giving them a copy and then sac your ring.

What would that do?
It only works if both players control a ring.
Otherwise it does nothing.

Barook

10-28-2021, 07:37 PM

Why 14?

Note that the draw only works if cards are drawn during a players turn.
They draw 7 from your Draw 7 and you draw 7 from it, which is triggering their ring copy to cause them to draw another 7 cards. Except all their draws get converted into treasure tokens via Hull Breacher.

FourDogsinaHorseSuit

10-28-2021, 07:38 PM

Card draw and token generator? Sounds alright.

Evasive lifelink tokens could potentially be very good. Definitely a card worth testing.

http://mythicspoiler.com/vow/cards/weddingring.jpg

I wonder if there are ways to break this card.

I'm also disappointed that the original Thalia got reprinted. Great for Standard, but I wanted to see a new version. White needs better weenies.
The ring isn't legendary so I assume you break it by playing 4, and letting them cast brainstorm.
Or you find a way to make like 10 of them and deck both players

FourDogsinaHorseSuit

10-28-2021, 07:40 PM

I feel like you trigger Ring, giving them a copy and then sac your ring.

If you get divorced the ring does nothing

Zoid

10-28-2021, 07:47 PM

They draw 7 from your Draw 7 and you draw 7 from it, which is triggering their ring copy to cause them to draw another 7 cards. Except all their draws get converted into treasure tokens via Hull Breacher.

Ok, maybe you should specify you mean a Time Twister like effect during your turn.

PirateKing

10-28-2021, 09:28 PM

It's a 3 mana Squire that sits on its ass for an entire turn and needs another 2+ power creature to do anything. If it gets rolling, it sounds good, but I'm sceptical about it.

The reanimation part could be interesting with the plainscyclers like Timeless Dragon/Angel of the Ruins. But those are quite a few hoops to jump through.

Oh I'm not suggesting the card is good or playable, just that it's an extra little zone added on that isn't usually part of the effect. Exile blah blah, then when this leaves they get it back, just like all the others.
Apparently they've expressed that white is now the color of reanimation effects. Looking forward to the 1 CMC white Reanimate that gains life :D

Fox

10-28-2021, 09:51 PM

If you get divorced the ring does nothing

Fine then, combo with MirageMirror. :laugh:

Barook

10-29-2021, 07:54 AM

http://mythicspoiler.com/vow/cards/dreadfugue.jpg

Thoughtseize, Duress and Inquisition all exist. Not sure if there's any deck for it.

If you get divorced the ring does nothing
Still a flavor fail, as you don't lose half your shit.

Reeplcheep

10-29-2021, 08:17 AM

PirateKing

10-29-2021, 08:27 AM

Thoughtseize, Duress and Inquisition all exist. Not sure if there's any deck for it.

If they start doing Cleave costs of "Pay 2 life" or "Discard a card" then it might get interesting. If its just CMC x and Cleave x+3 over and over then I'm bored of it already.

Barook

10-29-2021, 09:00 AM

Flashing in notion thief on your upkeep draws your whole deck.
Sounds cool - until you realize that you would kill yourself if you don't remove your Notion Thief in time since the loop doesn't stop itself. Gut Shot and the likes come into mind for that. Oracle + fast mana could be used as win con. But I doubt that it would be better than a Doomsday pile.

TsumiBand

10-29-2021, 09:02 AM

If they start doing Cleave costs of "Pay 2 life" or "Discard a card" then it might get interesting. If its just CMC x and Cleave x+3 over and over then I'm bored of it already.

Agreed, it's a tired comparison but it's secretly just Kicker again :/ as it's been spoiled so far the effect plays out like this:

Pay cost -> do a thing
Pay cost + extra cost -> do a better version of the thing

Just because they found a clever way to format it like "destroy target [non-basic] land" doesn't make it not so.

I know a lot of things can be reduced down to another version of Kicker if you squint at them long enough, but it's a problem when a new mechanic isn't even out yet and already it feels stale because it's recognizable as "more mana = more better = this is kicker"

Reeplcheep

10-29-2021, 09:25 AM

Sounds cool - until you realize that you would kill yourself if you don't remove your Notion Thief in time since the loop doesn't stop itself. Gut Shot and the likes come into mind for that. Oracle + fast mana could be used as win con. But I doubt that it would be better than a Doomsday pile.

It is usually not too hard to win once you have drawn your whole deck. Doing it at instant speed makes it a bit trickier but not horrible. The easiest way would be to copy the old modern ad naus kill of lightning storm plus SSG.

Doesn’t really help that the combo relies on 2 4 mana permanents in different colours though.

10-29-2021, 10:07 AM

Agreed, it's a tired comparison but it's secretly just Kicker again :/

Where is Lemnear (https://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/member.php?31040-Lemnear) when we need him?

TsumiBand

10-29-2021, 11:04 AM

Where is Lemnear (https://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/member.php?31040-Lemnear) when we need him?

Ha! Didn't realize he was MIA. I suppose technically I am too, except like, Arena.

I suppose there are a few cards on the spoiler list that break the pattern and so can't be strictly compared to Kicker. There's a Final Fortune variation that costs like 1RR with a Cleave cost that's like 6UUR or some uncastable jank and it cleaves off [you lose the game], which is awfully nice of them I suppose. Inb4 some terrible white "counterspell" says "restore the Cleave text of target spell" lmao.

They could print some reeeeeeally shitty cards this way if they wanted to.

Green Targeted Removal :g:
Instant

Cleave :2::w::b:

Destroy target permanent [you control].

They would never do this, but they totally should do this. Think of the memes!

10-29-2021, 11:29 AM

https://i.imgur.com/AmmRO61.png

Looks like an unfortunate waste of nice art though.

Barook

10-29-2021, 11:34 AM

http://mythicspoiler.com/vow/cards/torensfistoftheangels.jpg

Kinda reminds me of Mentor, except for creature spells. It can trigger the first Training for the tokens itself, so that's nice.

PirateKing

10-29-2021, 11:38 AM

Chandra doesn't seem amazing, but she's not awful for CMC 3. Not for Legacy Burn, but close to what a Burn planeswalker would need to be.
Speaking of CMC 3, can't wait for the upstage, "Liliana, Dressed to Murder"

FourDogsinaHorseSuit

10-29-2021, 12:10 PM

http://mythicspoiler.com/vow/cards/dreadfugue.jpg

Thoughtseize, Duress and Inquisition all exist. Not sure if there's any deck for it.

Still a flavor fail, as you don't lose half your shit.
A marriage that only lasts a few turns use more of an annulment

Reeplcheep

10-29-2021, 12:16 PM

https://i.imgur.com/AmmRO61.png

Looks like an unfortunate waste of nice art though.

I think you are a bit unfair here. This is arguably better than Liliana the last hope. And it is comparable to W6 and Chandra TOD.

It is a 3 cmc planeswalker that has removal on a plus. The list of cards like that is very short. Oko and Liliana the last hope only. RB daretti, Gideon of the trials, and grist if you squint I guess.

I’m pretty sure this ends up in the slower moon prison decks. In burn it is comparable to lavamancer but doesn’t require fetches and is better vs control.

PirateKing

10-29-2021, 12:33 PM

1 Damage is to player or planeswalker, not to creature. Liliana the Last Hope is removal on plus and the ultimate is game winning.
This is just value & value & value, which can be good in the right deck, but is not a one card combo like the planeswalkers that get played in Legacy.
Still I'm sticking with, "not bad" in review

Reeplcheep

10-29-2021, 12:34 PM

10-29-2021, 03:26 PM

Ooof I thought it was creature or planeswalker. RTFC.

Yeah, I mean, I probably was a bit harsh, but I don't know that it seems all that good. Maybe in a non-Legacy format? Not sure. I mean, apples and oranges, but the new 4-mana Sorin seems much better, even considering the big difference between mana cost 3 and 4.

Barook

10-29-2021, 03:30 PM

http://mythicspoiler.com/vow/cards/pathofperil.jpg

Looks like a decent SB card. It competes with Toxic Deluge and is less flexible, but also doesn't cost life.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FC4LzHxWQAc1XqO?format=png&name=small
Pretty decent card for Soul Sisters.

http://mythicspoiler.com/vow/cards/manaformhellkite.jpg
This only counts actual mana spend and not spells cast with alternate costs like Fireblast, right?

10-29-2021, 03:42 PM

This only counts actual mana spend and not spells cast with alternate costs like Fireblast, right?

Yes.

Reeplcheep

10-29-2021, 03:44 PM

Damn or Sphere of Annihilationseems better in most situations…

Purple Blood

10-29-2021, 04:45 PM

If they start doing Cleave costs of "Pay 2 life" or "Discard a card" then it might get interesting. If its just CMC x and Cleave x+3 over and over then I'm bored of it already.

Can't see them doing optional Phyrexian Mana, which they've said (and I think we can all agree) is shitty mechanic that shouldn't exist. The discard is more plausible and that's where things would get interesting.

One of the things that initially drew me into Magic in the first place back in the day was that certain cards had drawbacks that, if you built around, could become upsides. Alas, it appears they have completely gone away from this; case in point: them moving toward non-symmetrical hate cards like little Teferi, Narset, Leovold, etc..

Barook

10-29-2021, 04:59 PM

http://mythicspoiler.com/vow/cards/archghoulofthraben.jpg

Obvious card made for decayed tokens. Other than that, a pretty cool draw engine for Gravecrawler + sac outlet. With Phyrexian Altar + Crawler, it can draw all the zombies in your deck while you dump the rest of it into the GY.

TsumiBand

10-29-2021, 06:19 PM

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FC4LzHxWQAc1XqO?format=png&name=small
Pretty decent card for Soul Sisters.

Yes, I will happily make room for this in my Trelasarra Historic Brawl pile. It is a Spirit so it might even belong in my real life terrible Ghost Council of Orzhova EDH deck. Hmm.

Barook

10-29-2021, 06:52 PM

Yes, I will happily make room for this in my Trelasarra Historic Brawl pile. It is a Spirit so it might even belong in my real life terrible Ghost Council of Orzhova EDH deck. Hmm.
What does Soul Sisters run nowadays? Because a Saga package for token generation (Saga itself, Retrofitter Foundry) and Shadowspear as juicy tutor target doesn't too bad. Slap the Spear onto the new spirit or one of the Pridemage variants and you've got a big guy with fuck you lifegain. In case of the spirit, it could probably outgrow Murktides quite easily and then shut it down via vigilance. Solitude ups the removal count and can trigger your sisters even with the Evoke cast. Maybe even a Yorion variant since the key pieces have so much redundancy and a Yorion blink could generate massive ETB value?

TsumiBand

10-29-2021, 07:40 PM

What does Soul Sisters run nowadays? Because a Saga package for token generation (Saga itself, Retrofitter Foundry) and Shadowspear as juicy tutor target doesn't too bad. Slap the Spear onto the new spirit or one of the Pridemage variants and you've got a big guy with fuck you lifegain. In case of the spirit, it could probably outgrow Murktides quite easily and then shut it down via vigilance. Solitude ups the removal count and can trigger your sisters even with the Evoke cast. Maybe even a Yorion variant since the key pieces have so much redundancy and a Yorion blink could generate massive ETB value?

Good questions, all of them. I'm afraid that most of my MtG play lately has been through Arena so I couldn't tell you what any Legacy list would even look like. There have been a few Ajani Pridemate++ printings lately though, Trelasarra herself is dumb if you're gaining several life a turn as you're scrying so much you're almost guaranteed sick topdecks. This new bear is like an Uber Serra Ascendant without the annoying in-between phase of needing to hit a life total threshold, and if the Legacy deck has as much trouble with chumps preventing victory as my Brawl deck sometimes does then this dude is hugely worth including for its built-in flying.

I wouldn't want to dilute the deck too too much, but if memory serves me part of the issue with bringing Soul Sisters to Legacy when it first emerged as a deck is that it was still just a White Weenie deck at end of day and couldn't force the right kind of interaction that Legacy insists on. I would probably be inclined to push it into Abzan territory, take some cues from Deadguy Ale for Thoughtseizes and maybe even some of the juicy WB bears that have life gain/life loss abilities and also have some Pridemate-style "counters on life gain" growth. Karlov of the Ghost Council gets twice as many counters as the rest of the Pridemate variants and has a removal ability in a pinch, on paper it seems like it does a lot of things that deck wants done.

Whether or not a Junk Soul Sisters deck actually exists out there I can't say, but my suspicion tells me that those are the colors where the most likely variant lives.

Goaswerfraiejen

10-30-2021, 12:57 PM

Yeah, it's a great replacement for Avatar in Feeder combo. (Not that anyone else seems to play it, but it's a fun wildcard deck.)

Zoid

10-31-2021, 02:01 PM

https://mythicspoiler.com/vow/cards/toxrillthecorrosive.jpg

Might have some applications in reanimator somewhere.

HdH_Cthulhu

11-01-2021, 04:38 AM

Its way to slow. I mean its a slug for a reason.

Fox

11-01-2021, 05:31 AM

Its way to slow. I mean its a slug for a reason.

I'd be more worried about winning with slug. Do you really want to play against a salty opponent?

Barook

11-01-2021, 01:13 PM

http://mythicspoiler.com/vow/cards/curseofhospitality.jpg

Seems like an interesting card. Maybe it can slot into Rabblemaster-based Stompy builds?

Cire

11-01-2021, 01:59 PM

https://media.wizards.com/2021/vow/en_iDOXmrbKgM.png

ETB not Cast :eek:

Barook

11-01-2021, 03:09 PM

https://media.wizards.com/2021/vow/en_iDOXmrbKgM.png

ETB not Cast :eek:
In combination with Abundance, it allows you to drop all your lands from deck into play (tapped) while also allowing you to stack the rest of your deck.

11-01-2021, 03:59 PM

https://i.imgur.com/FDMxzXt.png

Triggers on Force of Will and/or Delve creatures. But no evasion or anything.

Barook

11-01-2021, 04:30 PM

http://mythicspoiler.com/vow/cards/hamletvanguard.jpg

This one has potential to become quite big in a Human deck.

morgan_coke

11-02-2021, 01:40 AM

http://mythicspoiler.com/vow/cards/hamletvanguard.jpg

This one has potential to become quite big in a Human deck.

It's three mana AND you need three other dudes in play -none of which can be tokens - for it to be bigger than 'Goyf. That strikes me as an issue.

Barook

11-02-2021, 02:53 AM

http://mythicspoiler.com/vow/cards/patchworkcrawler.jpg

Pretty odd card. Not sure if it could do anything special (aside from pitching to Force) that Necrotic Ooze wouldn't do. Unless you have that mana lying around to steal an opposing Griselbrand's draw 7 ability.

Good questions, all of them. I'm afraid that most of my MtG play lately has been through Arena so I couldn't tell you what any Legacy list would even look like. There have been a few Ajani Pridemate++ printings lately though, Trelasarra herself is dumb if you're gaining several life a turn as you're scrying so much you're almost guaranteed sick topdecks. This new bear is like an Uber Serra Ascendant without the annoying in-between phase of needing to hit a life total threshold, and if the Legacy deck has as much trouble with chumps preventing victory as my Brawl deck sometimes does then this dude is hugely worth including for its built-in flying.

I wouldn't want to dilute the deck too too much, but if memory serves me part of the issue with bringing Soul Sisters to Legacy when it first emerged as a deck is that it was still just a White Weenie deck at end of day and couldn't force the right kind of interaction that Legacy insists on. I would probably be inclined to push it into Abzan territory, take some cues from Deadguy Ale for Thoughtseizes and maybe even some of the juicy WB bears that have life gain/life loss abilities and also have some Pridemate-style "counters on life gain" growth. Karlov of the Ghost Council gets twice as many counters as the rest of the Pridemate variants and has a removal ability in a pinch, on paper it seems like it does a lot of things that deck wants done.

Whether or not a Junk Soul Sisters deck actually exists out there I can't say, but my suspicion tells me that those are the colors where the most likely variant lives.
I could see the deck running the new Abiding Grace from MH2 which seems to be tailor-maide for Soul Sisters. Throw in some Hope of Ghirapur (which can be fetched with Sagas) and you also have a way to soft-lock certain opponents.

TsumiBand

11-02-2021, 10:47 AM

I could see the deck running the new Abiding Grace from MH2 which seems to be tailor-maide for Soul Sisters. Throw in some Hope of Ghirapur (which can be fetched with Sagas) and you also have a way to soft-lock certain opponents.

Goddamn. Abiding Grace seems like a no-brainer for a deck like Soul Sisters, White notoriously has great 1-drops and even in the absence of targets it just happens to uptick your life total. Sheesh. There was a Martyr of Sands variant for a time that made Serra Ascendant much easier to grow, I could see this card slotting in there very naturally. There are a lot of 1-drops with sac effects that grant protection or indestructible that would feel pretty good to cash in on turn after turn as well, especially if returning them to the battlefield triggers lifegain, scrying, +1/+1 counters, etc. Real shit.

rufus

11-02-2021, 03:07 PM

[Ascendany Packleader]

Triggers on Force of Will and/or Delve creatures. But no evasion or anything.

Also other alternative casting like Evoke and Escape, and cost reduction like affinity. That said, I'm not sure that most of those cards work that well with the "go low" game plan where a card like packleader would make sense.

rufus

11-02-2021, 03:22 PM

...
Pretty odd card. Not sure if it could do anything special (aside from pitching to Force) that Necrotic Ooze wouldn't do. Unless you have that mana lying around to steal an opposing Griselbrand's draw 7 ability.
..

I always want the "exiled with it" abilities to cross pollinate so that you could chain Phyrexian Devourer into Izzet Chemister and cast your whole library, but that doesn't work.

For what it's worth, the crawler only hits the own graveyard, so Necrotic Ooze can copy an opponent's Griselbrand ability while the crawler cannot.

Barook

11-02-2021, 06:44 PM

http://mythicspoiler.com/vow/cards/grafreaver.jpg

This one seems pretty efficient. At worst, it's a sac outlet for Veteran Explorer.

Zoid

11-03-2021, 03:35 PM

Optimistic Initiate

W
Creature - Human Warlock
Training (Whenever this creature attacks with another creature with greater power, put a +1/+1 counter on this creature.)

2W, Remove two +1/+1 counters from among creatures you control: Destroy target artifact or enchantment.

More humans fodder.

https://mythicspoiler.com/vow/cards/washaway.jpg

A bit narrow but might have applications somewhere.

TsumiBand

11-04-2021, 12:15 AM

https://media.mtgsalvation.com/avatars/thumbnails/284/673/200/283/637715462681086530.jpeg

This has to be busted, right?

Fox

11-04-2021, 03:09 AM

https://media.mtgsalvation.com/avatars/thumbnails/284/673/200/283/637715462681086530.jpeg

This has to be busted, right?

Magmatic Channeler

Barook

11-04-2021, 06:20 AM

Magmatic Channeler
That's one use per turn, though. The other card can chain draw spells into something stupid. Aside from the usual suspects, it should be pretty good with loot effects since you don't care about the attached discard afterwards. Brainstorm becomes a draw 6, Breakthrough a draw 8, for example.

This also works in tandem with Uba Mask since you an choose the replacement effect, right?

http://mythicspoiler.com/vow/cards/avabruckcaretaker.jpghttp://mythicspoiler.com/vow/cards/hollowhengehuntmaster.jpg

Pretty expensive, but the backside looks quite powerful and should win you the game pretty quickly since it's hard disrupt. However, Primeval Titan has the same CC and it's questionable if it's better/faster than that.

Fox

11-04-2021, 06:54 AM

If you're playing into removal and REB for 3 mana, you're going to choose Uro. Like Mentor, you pretty much have to pass the turn and untap to begin to get anything out of this. With the 2c requirement, you're probably not able to effectively use Tomb, so you're also looking at the question of whether or not Tomb/Hullbreacher + LED/Echo is just easier. There is also Tomb/Birgi Horn to consider, as it is harder to interact with.

This new card stinks of bad card syndrome; i.e. if the opponent kills it, all that is left are bad cards. If you really want to draw even more with Brainstorm, just play Karn and wish for Alhammarret's Archive so your deck is still full of good cards.

Barook

11-04-2021, 08:54 AM

http://mythicspoiler.com/vow/cards/cemetarygatekeeper.jpg

Cemetary Gatekeeper :1::r:
Creature - Vampire

First strike

When Cemetary Gatekeeper enters the battlefield, exile a card from a graveyard.

Whenever any player plays a land or casts a spell, if it has the same type as the exiled card, Cemetary Gatekeeper deals 2 damage to that player.
2/1
Red GY hate is rather uncommon. Looks pretty playable with a combat-efficient body and lots of extra damage potential. Depending on the deck, either lands, creature or instants are probably going to be common targets.

Zoid

11-04-2021, 10:16 AM

http://mythicspoiler.com/vow/cards/cemetarygatekeeper.jpg

Red GY hate is rather uncommon. Looks pretty playable with a combat-efficient body and lots of extra damage potential. Depending on the deck, either lands, creature or instants are probably going to be common targets.

Isn't this just a straight up better Eidolon?

This could be the red Thalia but this guy is not legendary.

Noctalor

11-04-2021, 10:52 AM

https://gyazo.com/0a96f4897c11bddce9ae4f1bd3e01ea5

Could be very strong, works quite well with DRC

Cire

11-04-2021, 11:40 AM

Wrath of Pie

11-04-2021, 12:01 PM

https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/uoZYkO8r8miI2QX1PbsWqOOsVIEdifUFHNDFSXAiItc/https/media.discordapp.net/attachments/508703630862581760/905092613726674994/IBXDQth_d.webp?width=236&height=330

Ha, saw this goof on Reddit :laugh:
See, instead of complaining about new mechanics that are just really kicker again, make jokes. It works much better, trust me.

FourDogsinaHorseSuit

11-04-2021, 01:13 PM

See, instead of complaining about new mechanics that are just really kicker again, make jokes. It works much better, trust me.

All mechanics are kicker or split cards

Wrath of Pie

11-04-2021, 01:37 PM

All mechanics are kicker or split cards
Add a joke

morgan_coke

11-04-2021, 03:14 PM

Add a joke

WotC's development team

FourDogsinaHorseSuit

11-04-2021, 04:05 PM

Add a joke

I paid the cleave cost [which is minus kicker]

FTW

11-04-2021, 04:13 PM

https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/uoZYkO8r8miI2QX1PbsWqOOsVIEdifUFHNDFSXAiItc/https/media.discordapp.net/attachments/508703630862581760/905092613726674994/IBXDQth_d.webp?width=236&height=330

Ha, saw this goof on Reddit :laugh:

Both modes can't be countered by REB. Premium anti-Monke tech.

Zoid

11-04-2021, 06:43 PM

Add a joke

Locked behind cleavage cost.

Pay cleavage to motorboat booba.

TsumiBand

11-04-2021, 07:43 PM

That's one use per turn, though. The other card can chain draw spells into something stupid. Aside from the usual suspects, it should be pretty good with loot effects since you don't care about the attached discard afterwards. Brainstorm becomes a draw 6, Breakthrough a draw 8, for example.

This also works in tandem with Uba Mask since you an choose the replacement effect, right?

http://mythicspoiler.com/vow/cards/avabruckcaretaker.jpghttp://mythicspoiler.com/vow/cards/hollowhengehuntmaster.jpg

Pretty expensive, but the backside looks quite powerful and should win you the game pretty quickly since it's hard disrupt. However, Primeval Titan has the same CC and it's questionable if it's better/faster than that.

I dunno if any permanent that can be forcibly transformed by the opponent into a worse version is "hard disruption" as such, especially since flipping it requires a whole series of things to go your way. Maybe there's a Chant-lock way of keeping your opponents from forcing Day to occur without your permission? Feels like a lot of hoops to jump through

Barook

11-05-2021, 03:45 AM

http://mythicspoiler.com/vow/cards/welcomingvampire.jpg

That card seems really good, even if D&T is more heavy on 3-power creatures now.

Especially in Yorion builds that have more room and flexibility, I see potential. If you run Saga in Yorion builds, the Foundry during your opponent's turn can cause an additional trigger.

It should also be very strong with Vial since it fuels itself - play something during your turn, draw, then vial something in during your opponent's turn, draw again.

With something like Recruiter, the Vial lines can become silly rather quicky. Recruiter, tutor up something, draw, vial in the fetched 2 power creature during opponent's turn, draw again. Thus a Recruiter can get you up to three extra cards with it instead of just one.

FourDogsinaHorseSuit

11-05-2021, 07:36 AM

Once per turn or mentor of the meek play one every time

TheAmazingKitchen

11-05-2021, 07:44 AM

http://www.mythicspoiler.com/vow/cards/kayageisthunter.jpg

Doesn't look very strong overall, but unless I'm mistaken the -2 makes it the cheapest Doubling Season effect that's ever been printed. Could there be any fun combos ?

Barook

11-05-2021, 07:47 AM

Doesn't look very strong overall, but unless I'm mistaken the -2 makes it the cheapest Doubling Season effect that's ever been printed. Could there be any fun combos ?
Isn't the main appeal of Doubling Season that you can cheese cards with counters, e.g. insta-ulting Planeswalkers?

It's closer to a one-time Anointed Procession, thus signifcantly less exciting.

rufus

11-05-2021, 08:26 AM

... Could there be any fun combos ?

The token doubling does also affect treasure tokens. I don't think it's competitive legacy material, but it does allow for a jank engine with the treasure loot cards they've printed recently.

4 Kinnan, Bonder Prodigy
4 Kaya, Geist Hunter

4 Strike it Rich
4 Ragavan Nimble Pilferer
4 Seize the Spoils
4 Pirate's Pillage
4 Unexpected Windfall
....

11-05-2021, 09:11 AM

I mean, you could make a super grindy deck with Lingering Souls. But it probably is too slow much of the time (and you'd be very vulnerable to Spell Pierce).

Barook

11-05-2021, 04:35 PM

I'm suprised there isn't much talk about Welcoming Vampire. There's quite a bit of cheese potential in it, aside from Vialing in stuff during your opponent's turn, e.g.:

- Thalia + Karakas becomes a draw engine.
- Recruiter chains with either itself, Charming Prince or Flickerwisp (the latter doesn't trigger Vampire like the first two, though)

The real beauty is that it's possible the set up a self-sustaining blink loop that can net you an extra card every turn (per Vampire) with no further mana upkeep (or requiring an active Vial) once the whole thing keeps going. Assuming a Vampire is in play:

- play Charming Prince #1
- blink it with Prince #2
- EoT #1 returns, you draw & blink #2
- next EoT #2 returns, you draw & blink #1
- next EoT #1 returns, you draw & blink #2
- next EoT #2 returns, you draw & blink #1, etc.

But the best part about is that you only need a single Recruiter to set the Prince thing up - play Recruiter, grab Prince #1, blink Recruiter, grab Prince #2, get going.

Wisp + Prince could also set up the infinite loop, but since Wisp can't trigger the Vampire, the effectiveness of the loop is halfed.

On the bright side, all of these cards slot nicely into a Yorion shell. Question is if it should be D&T shell or some kind of White Stompy shell (which would make Vial not so viable) to make the best use out of it.

rufus

11-05-2021, 06:06 PM

I'm suprised there isn't much talk about Welcoming Vampire. There's quite a bit of cheese potential in it ..

It seems slow, fragile, expensive and conditional to me.

Fox

11-05-2021, 06:21 PM

It seems slow, fragile, expensive and conditional to me.

Let's be real, it allows DnT to go to BW and spam Dread of Night in the mirror. Oh, and they get to draw off of Flickerwisp and Spirit of the Lab!

HdH_Cthulhu

11-06-2021, 03:20 AM

But again 3 mana. At this point its like a meme to print busted D&T cards at 3cc.

We dont even play ranger captain of eos!

The other options tutor stuff up at EtB so our Vampire has to trigger twice to be as good. (I know weird logic but its more risk more reward if it sticks arround)

alphastryk

11-08-2021, 11:50 AM

Its an improved Mentor of the Meek but that's likely not enough.

Reeplcheep

11-08-2021, 02:00 PM

this is a mono blue “banisher priest” with a relevant tribe and flickerwisp stats.

Dreamshackle Geist
{1}{U}{U}
Creature — Spirit
Flying
At the beginning of combat on your turn, choose up to one —
• Tap target creature.
• Target creature doesn’t untap during its controller’s next untap step.
3/1

Might make par.

11-08-2021, 03:33 PM

Might make par.

But what deck would use it? Maybe Spirits, but that is a fringe deck that questionable if better than Humans. I don't think any deck wants to cast it for three mana, so it would likely only be used in a Vial deck?

Reeplcheep

11-08-2021, 03:45 PM

But what deck would use it? Maybe Spirits, but that is a fringe deck that questionable if better than Humans. I don't think any deck wants to cast it for three mana, so it would likely only be used in a Vial deck?

I think it is arguably better than brazen borrower for monoU delver. Same 3/1 body and tapping something down is usually better than bouncing it. It’s the closest blue has gotten to a necretaal in quite some time and is worth noting at least.

I’m working on spirits currently since it could be merfolk 2.0 but it isn’t quite there. Skyclave not answering murktide was a big deal and that fixes this a bit.

11-08-2021, 03:58 PM

I think it is arguably better than brazen borrower for monoU delver. Same 3/1 body and tapping something down is usually better than bouncing it.

In a sense, yes, but there would seem to be a fairly common instance where this would not be the case, namely when they have removal in hand. Borrower in that case still does what it does. Plus bounce does "permanently" deal with a Token (namely Marit Lage) and also has some applications in helping, at least somewhat, to non-creature permanents. I think it really depends on the rest of the cards with it, maybe.