'Mississippi River' (All In Creativity Technique Combo)

[PirateKing]

There is also just the specter of Trickery into Trickery failures that, if I step away from the analytical understanding of probabilities, happens to me 1,000% of the time :<

[FTW]

Yeah I guess there are tempo advantages.

There's also a brewer's advantage. With the 6 cmc build, if I played T1 Sandstone Needle, Delver usually goes T1 DRC/Delver instead of T1 Waste/Ponder into FoW. Because they expect you to go off T3 so they think they have time to set up and value putting you on a clock. Then you could maybe catch them off guard with T2 Outburst/Throes, after they didn't use turn 1 to set up disruption. But now that these lists are more common, the tempo player can adjust and play T1 Waste/Ponder. Or they know to Surgical Throes, due to lack of starters. Before they figure that out there would be some temporary boost in win% while they play around the 6cmc version.

[AEMarling]

Yes, Trickery into Trickery is bad. As is CT into Trickery. Yes, it plays more like a lottery. That’s what makes it fun. Every time you are like, “Big money! Apex Devestator—-yessss!”

But also you’re faster. And it is not like if they counter one spell you’re done. You still play CT, so if they counter the first one you can still combo a turn later. And if you draw a Throes you can counter check them every turn.

[Arcadia]

I've played the deck a few times without throes MD and without mind's desire or all the other funky cards I. I agree with what's said here: The point of the deck is that is very resilient and can fight through hate. You may lose to double wasteland, a very fast start of Initiative, or flipping something unfortunate from technique. But Tibalt's trickery makes the deck much more random. The win% of the trickery version are horrible online, I wonder if it'd be the same without Tibalt's trickery MD.

I like Tibalt's trickery though as a SB option when you must be faster. Against what do you sideboard them in? I think I've done that against reanimator and maybe initiative on the draw, would do the same against doomsday. This is the decklist I played last time: https://mtgdecks.net/Legacy/mississipi-river-decklist-by-darvid-garcia-mora-1886557


Most of the times I ended up boarding the 4th carnosaur and the 4th Otawara. I would probably move the Otawara maindeck rather than a basic / volcanic. Winning the first game through hate is quite important (teferis, archon of emeria). In the SB I'd change the Pyrokinesis for sure, Karakas and Boseiju I'm not sure. The split between Aurora Phoenix and Let the Galaxy burn was fine, since you still need some amount of creatures, but Galaxy burn sometimes can kill creatures and costs only R.

[snugar_i]

I've played the deck a few times without throes MD and without mind's desire or all the other funky cards I. I agree with what's said here: The point of the deck is that is very resilient and can fight through hate. You may lose to double wasteland, a very fast start of Initiative, or flipping something unfortunate from technique. But Tibalt's trickery makes the deck much more random. The win% of the trickery version are horrible online, I wonder if it'd be the same without Tibalt's trickery MD.

I like Tibalt's trickery though as a SB option when you must be faster. Against what do you sideboard them in? I think I've done that against reanimator and maybe initiative on the draw, would do the same against doomsday. This is the decklist I played last time: https://mtgdecks.net/Legacy/mississipi-river-decklist-by-darvid-garcia-mora-1886557


Most of the times I ended up boarding the 4th carnosaur and the 4th Otawara. I would probably move the Otawara maindeck rather than a basic / volcanic. Winning the first game through hate is quite important (teferis, archon of emeria). In the SB I'd change the Pyrokinesis for sure, Karakas and Boseiju I'm not sure. The split between Aurora Phoenix and Let the Galaxy burn was fine, since you still need some amount of creatures, but Galaxy burn sometimes can kill creatures and costs only R.
I haven't actively played Legacy in a few years, but I've been following this thread since the beginning and slowly acquiring all the cards.
Your list looks exactly like what I would like to try at my LGS in the near future, but I've never actually played the deck against a real opponent.
How do you sideboard? What do you take out when you bring in Throes? Some starters, some lands?
Thx in advance

[Arcadia]

I haven't actively played Legacy in a few years, but I've been following this thread since the beginning and slowly acquiring all the cards.
Your list looks exactly like what I would like to try at my LGS in the near future, but I've never actually played the deck against a real opponent.
How do you sideboard? What do you take out when you bring in Throes? Some starters, some lands?
Thx in advance

I haven't put it into a list, but it's mostly a few considerations together:
Do they play wasteland, counters, creatures, things you may need to kill/bounce, many cards that you can reveal with technique that are bad, would you be able to go off a second time?

Then you can cut. Throes gives you more starters and you usually want to start quick with Throes. so I try to keep all untapped sol lands, and red sol lands. Except boarding party, the other starters have pros and cons: In terms of being creature, color requirement, they can do something against hate..

Sometimes you don't want to give them many chances with Technique also, so having Wanderer/Emrakul and hitting creatures is important so that you don't have to demonstrate anymore. So it's usually something like the 4 worst starters, 1 Otawara, 1 Volcanic, 1 something else. Sometimes you have to also bring Aeve if they could have Surgical.

[AEMarling]

Tested decks using MH3 cards agains the River, and they drowned. Made me wonder if any new cards could help this deck. Any thoughts?

[FTW]

Meteoric Mace seems worse than the current set of 4RR cascade cards

Emrakul & Ulamog have strong cast triggers, but Emrakul, the Aeons Torn is probably still best for the Time Walk + graveyard shuffle + Annihilate 6. Imho it's very hard to lose after casting Emrakul.

[AEMarling]

Vexing Bauble is a big problem, I realize now. Yes, we have answers, but part of the draw was playing a deck few people had dedicated hate against.

[FTW]

Boseiju, Who Endures is an easy solution to Bauble.

Other answers already existed like Teferi, Time Raveler, Lavinia, Azorius Renegade, Damping Sphere, Sphere of Resistance. The risk is Bauble may see more play because it hates on Force and cantrips. It'll depend how the meta develops.

[Whoshim]

The difference between Bauble and those cards is that it is a low cost card to slip into a deck. At worst, it is a 2 mana colorless card that replaces itself. At best, it can shut down huge parts of decks, particularly Mississippi River. It is also tutorable via Urza's Saga. Those other cards are all 2 or more mana, and some are more than one color. They also have relatively little effect on some matchups

Bauble has at least some effect on every deck that I can think of - FoW, 0 mana artifacts, Grief, etc., etc. Even something like Death and Taxes, which plays mostly fairly, will likely run Solitude. Additionally, since Bauble can be turned off to gain at card at the cost of 1 mana, decks that would be hurt by it might still run it just to keep the opponent from doing things until they are ready.

I don't play Mississippi River, but I do worry about it after MH3 drops due to Bauble. I would hate to see the deck pushed out of the format.

[PirateKing]

Like FTW said, the new Vexing Bauble is obnoxious but it's nothing new. It'll be wait and see for how wide the adoption is with other decks.
I'm sure there are metas somewhere that are lousy with UW Control and Lands players that are unfriendly to Mississippi River, if that just becomes the norm everywhere with this card then our free win percentage might suffer.
But just Vexing Bauble alone won't save them, I can see many player windmilling it down turn 1 and thinking they're safe before getting humbled by an EOT Boseiju or Otawara.

I suspect there will be a window of hardship where everything is being tested and we'll see lots of stuff like Vexing Bauble played. But I'm not sure how many lists want a do-nothing card, especially as others have said, just about every deck has free spells now, so hobbling your own deck might not be the total positive inclusion I've heard it described as. I'll be just as perturbed by this card as a Lavinia or Sphere, but my answers remain the same.

[FTW]

Interestingly they also can't Force or Daze with Bauble out.

This line seems funny:
- build up to 7 mana
- cast Creative Technique
- Demonstrate
- Opponent's copy resolves first
- if opponent reveals Force (or anything relevant) it gets countered
- hold priority
- Boseiju the Bauble
- let 2 Creative Technique branches resolve

This line slows us down and doesn't work with 6cmc Cascade, but it's funny that it makes us better against their counters.

[Reeplcheep]

In the above line, the original creative technique will still be countered by the vexing bauble.

The most important part of this card is that you can get it t3 off of saga + it’s maindeckable. That means wasteland + saga beats an uninteractive hand even on the draw, making lands/pox/depths G1s much harder. As just a normal sideboard card it’s weaker than previous hate (at least if you aren’t running discover cards)

[PirateKing]

In the above line, the original creative technique will still be countered by the vexing bauble.

I'm not sure I follow how. Cast from hand, no part of a Creative Technique would interact with Vexing Bauble. The demonstrated copies get put on the stack, not cast. Vexing Bauble is blind to these, same as any Storm card. Whatever CT casts will be countered, sure (pro move to flip an Emralkul). But if you paid 5 for the original, how is Vexing Bauble a factor?

[Reeplcheep]

Sorry brain fart. I assumed you cascaded into technique.

[FTW]

Sorry brain fart. I assumed you cascaded into technique.

If you cascade into Technique, it's slightly worse.

You need 8 mana instead of 7. The 6cmc creature isn't countered, Cascade triggers, CT gets put on the stack and Demonstrate triggers. After the full stack resolves you'd only get 1 CT branch (Bauble counters the other) and the original starter creature, but opponent's free spell is still countered by their own Bauble. Not as good but it still lets you go off. In that case it's probably better to EOT Boseiju before casting the starter.

[PirateKing]

I've lost a game playing against Mississippi River when I was playing Pox, literally the first Demonstrate flipped a Nether Void and I was feeling unbeatable. Then their demonstrate copy resolves, flips some Cascade creature, trigger and all that, finds the next Creative Technique, cast, trigger (demonstrate), trigger (Nether Void). So they had 3 CTs that demonstrated would actually resolve, the original CTs and all the cascade creatures would be countered. The next flip from them? Emrakul >:|