4 Card Blind: Ban-Back Better

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

It's been a while since we played right?
A solid year since any posts in the thread?
Well, maybe we should play again?

SCORES (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Lgy8Q5Ps6c8MVuo8N1UnBkmqfB8QSSnJ4PgBanQVHYI/)
SUBMISSIONS (https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLScW_QHn29mO7-FqHi_t9EV2BosZNQrj1tqMfK8EcLnK1HrGMg/viewform?usp=sf_link)

Tha rules: (edits in bold)
Normal 4cb. Perfect info, perfect play, Legacy card pool, yadda yadda yadda.
New cards: Wotc posts new cards all the time because they're milking us dry. If a new card is revealed that you have to have it will be legal the game-week after it's been spoiled for a full week. We'll use mythic spoiler for reveals.*
Season Gimmick: Creativity by Force!
1) Initial banned list: All "my deck is empty, I win the game" cards are banned. Laboratory Maniac, Thassia's Oracle, etc.
2) At the end of each week, all cards used are banned. Basic lands excepted.
3) At the end of each week, for each card in your deck used by another player your score will be reduced by one. This effect is cumulative. Basic lands do not count towards this**
4) If all four of you cards are in use by other players and you do not win a single game you shoot the moon, like in hearts, and we'll give you some points. Basic lands here are also disqualifying I don't know how many yet but some amount. Maybe however many the leader go this round? Turn all your losses into wins? Invert the penalty? I'm open to suggestions.

*Basically a card needs to have been posted for two deadlines before you can use it. A card revealed the day before deadline 1 will be legal in week 3.
** -2 for each other copy of the card in the field, so if you and I have identical decks that's -8 for each of us. If a third player then has one shared card it's -10.


Any questions?
Any interest?
Signup now!

ROUND 6 DEADLINE: 2 April, 6am US Central Time

Scores after 4 rounds:


#

R1
R2
R3
R4
R5
R6
Total
Change


1
DTE
18
16
5
9
18

66
+18


2
Wrath of Pie
13
13
2
2
9

39
+9


4
FTW
0
9
5
16
0

30
-


5
Silkster
13
0
0
14
10

37
+10


6
GoblinSmashmaster
-
-
10
12
10

32
+10


7
Four Dogs Ina Horsesuit
2
2
16
0
9

20
+9


8
Asthreal
7
7
0
0


14
-





New Banned list:
Initial cards plus,
reclaim
llanowar mentor
vengeful pharaoh
lotus petal
rite of flame
empty the warrens
geier reach sanitarium
saprazzan skerry
show and tell
emrakul, the aesons torn
undiscovered paradise
thoughtseize
durkwood baloth
stormkirk noble
inquisition of kozilek
volatile fault
bitterblossom


Cabal Therapy
Dark Depths
Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
Vampire Hexmage
Saprazzan Cove
Force of Negation
Subtlety
Gadget Technician
Mental Misstep
Scythe Tiger
Forest
Surgical Extraction
Scrubland
Doomed Traveler
Path to Exile
Thespian's Stage
Young Wolf
Hexdrinker
Overgrown Tomb


reanimate
grief
force of despair
chancellor of the forge
pyrokinesis
leyline of the meek
bayou
swarm shambler
blackmail
pithing needle
agadeem's awakening
leyline of sanctity
leyline of the guildpact
scion of draco
serra's sanctum
ghost quarter
memnite
city of traitors
leyline of anticipation
volcanic island
tropical island
field of ruin
burning inquiry
tropical island
nether spirit
crashing footfalls
chronomaton
burning inquary
foil
Ancient Tomb
Damping Sphere
leyline of the void
mutavault
Chancellor of the Annex
Karakas
Lion's Eye Diamond
Unburial Rites
Foundtain of Cho
Wasteland
Solitude
Evil Presence
Unmask
Corpulent Corpse
Cenn's Tactician
Leyline of Singularity
Force of Will

[Reeplcheep]

Can we ban all the stupid attraction and sticker cards WOTC has put upon us?

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

Can we ban all the stupid attraction and sticker cards WOTC has put upon us?

I definitely don't like them, and am going to day no to stickers because I don't want to handle the compounding calculations of which 10 sticker sheets were optional and then which random 3 were the worst, and then the optional one of those three.
Dungeons and attractions are cards though so if two players do an attraction deck though they'll each end up with minus 10 just because of the matching attraction deck, and then those ten being removed says there's only 11 remaining so at most the ban policy says we can only have attractions twice.
Same with dungeons and initiative.
E: also you can include an attraction deck in a deck that doesn't use attractions so you can work towards banning them yourself.

[Reeplcheep]

Even if we allow attractions we won’t allow sideboards for wish/companion right?

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

Even if we allow attractions we won’t allow sideboards for wish/companion right?

Correct.
That's the standard, right?

[Wrath of Pie]

The traditional standard is that cards outside the game effectively don't exist. Of course this was far simpler in the days without non-traditional Magic cards like dungeons and the like, but effectively none of that works. (It's arguable whether or not dungeons/initiative make Card Blind better, of course.)

4) needs to exclude draws for obvious reasons.

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

The traditional standard is that cards outside the game effectively don't exist. Of course this was far simpler in the days without non-traditional Magic cards like dungeons and the like, but effectively none of that works. (It's arguable whether or not dungeons/initiative make Card Blind better, of course.)

4) needs to exclude draws for obvious reasons.

Draws are the risk.

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

The traditional standard is that cards outside the game effectively don't exist. Of course this was far simpler in the days without non-traditional Magic cards like dungeons and the like, but effectively none of that works. (It's arguable whether or not dungeons/initiative make Card Blind better, of course.)

4) needs to exclude draws for obvious reasons.

Draws are the risk. Esp in the early rounds where the most common cards are pretty predictable and I can just name the four most common cards in 4cb.

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

Oh i forgot you could run the same card twice. how about 5)
For the purposes for any points other than W/L/Ds a duplicate card does not count. You cannot shoot the moon with two copies of the same card in starting deck.

[silkster]

I think y'all are talking across each other regarding draws. Rule 4 says "you do not win a single game", but that happens somewhat often in draw-heavy rounds. I think Wrath of Pie is saying that the rule should be that you must lose every single game. Or maybe not, in which case I propose that you should have to lose every game. Though that's kind of not hard to do if you only run cards you can't cast or just four basics. I suppose the challenge is playing played cards. Also, if two people just *try* to shoot the moon, then they'll draw and neither will succeed. Though I suppose that's okay?

I don't think duplicates will come up much, but I think the thing to do is to say that two decks both playing two copies of something overlap twice, but one copy here and two copies there overlap only once.

Do we want basic lands to be exempt from points penalties?

Forcing a diverse meta and then banning every single card is going to make the banlist massive, but I'm good with that.

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

That's an oversight, yes basic lands should be excepted from penalties.
I did remember to except them from bannings.

[Asthereal]

Purely by coincidence I log in to this forum, and behold: 4Dog launches new 4CB!
I wish I weren't so busy right now... But I'll try to join for sure.

I have no preferences for rules, bannings, formats or whatever.
Just play what you guys think is cool and if it needs adjusting we can always be adjusting.

[Wrath of Pie]

I think y'all are talking across each other regarding draws. Rule 4 says "you do not win a single game", but that happens somewhat often in draw-heavy rounds. I think Wrath of Pie is saying that the rule should be that you must lose every single game. Or maybe not, in which case I propose that you should have to lose every game. Though that's kind of not hard to do if you only run cards you can't cast or just four basics. I suppose the challenge is playing played cards. Also, if two people just *try* to shoot the moon, then they'll draw and neither will succeed. Though I suppose that's okay?
Losing every game is way harder than drawing every game if you have to submit cards that are shared by other players. It also gets easier the more entries there are (because there are more cards in the eligible pool). Granted, the idea behind both is the same - since there is no actual attempt to win, you instead try to guess what other people are submitting (other than any way to generate mana, naturally).

Also, shooting the moon in hearts is basically similar in that you have to take every point card, so the best way to mimic that here is to require the losing.

[Reeplcheep]

It does seem very easy to just name 4 common non-basic non-wincon cards if there are a lot of people. It should at least require outright losses.

Not that I suspect anyone of doing this, but collusion instantly wins the round, just both name any 4 interactive cards and you shoot the moon.

[silkster]

It does seem very easy to just name 4 common non-basic non-wincon cards if there are a lot of people. It should at least require outright losses.

Not that I suspect anyone of doing this, but collusion instantly wins the round, just both name any 4 interactive cards and you shoot the moon.

This would actually be really funny if it happened by accident, but it would only be funny to those two people. To everyone else...

Shooting the moon in Hearts is something that only one person can do. If two people try it simultaneously, it's a disaster for both. So not allowing draws does seem fitting.

My additional thoughts on the rules are the same as Asthereal's: Anything is fine, and we can fix it as we go, as long as the rules are clearly understood.

Should we be filling out the Sing Up Sheet. It looks like people might have missed it or been overwhelmed by the very difficult questions.

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

I'm just glad someone else signed up!

[Asthereal]

This would actually be really funny if it happened by accident, but it would only be funny to those two people. To everyone else...

Shooting the moon in Hearts is something that only one person can do. If two people try it simultaneously, it's a disaster for both. So not allowing draws does seem fitting.
This is a good point. "Losing every game while having only cards that others play and would cost you" ensures that only one person can achieve this each round, and it seems very difficult to do.
I would vote to award max points for a round for this. So in my old seasons that'd be 6 points. (And no loss of points for the cards, in this case.)

EDIT: I'm also in, by the way.

[dte]

Also in, and thanks for organizing this!

[FTW]

I'll play. Thanks for organizing!

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

I want to do a test round to see if I have all the behind-the-scenes stuff setup right. And to sample a round.
Please submit your deck. 6am Monday is the deadline. (https://forms.gle/o7165YhRJ3mZJgTQ8)

[Asthereal]

I want to do a test round to see if I have all the behind-the-scenes stuff setup right. And to sample a round.
Please submit your deck. 6am Monday is the deadline. (https://forms.gle/o7165YhRJ3mZJgTQ8)

I got sick and missed a few days of forum. And other stuff, but that's not important now.
When's the deadline? Next Monday? Which timezone should I count for 6AM?

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

I got sick and missed a few days of forum. And other stuff, but that's not important now.
When's the deadline? Next Monday? Which timezone should I count for 6AM?

Feel better soon!
Also it's a meaningless test round to demonstrate rules and make sure I set up all the sheets and redirects correctly.
Central time. It's currently 830 here. Compare that to the localized timestamp on my post for the time zone.

[dte]

What does meaningless round means?

Should we submit a bad/random deck then, or our treasured best bet?

Otherwise, very nice submitting system!

[Asthereal]

Feel better soon!
Also it's a meaningless test round to demonstrate rules and make sure I set up all the sheets and redirects correctly.
Central time. It's currently 830 here. Compare that to the localized timestamp on my post for the time zone.

Localized timestamp tells me you posted at 3:30PM, so you definitely don't mean Central European Time. :wink: (That's where I'm at.)
So I'm +8 from you, meaning I have until halfway the afternoon on d-day to get a deck in.

I already have one though. It's a tribute to the person who's reviving my old thing. :cool:
I'll put it in the form so you can see how things look when people send stuff in.

[Wrath of Pie]

Cards 3 and 4 are not required on the form for some reason

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

Cards 3 and 4 are not required on the form for some reason

noted

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

Reminder: Sample test round deadline is less than 10 hours from 12 minutes ago!

[dte]

Localized timestamp tells me you posted at 3:30PM, so you definitely don't mean Central European Time. :wink: (That's where I'm at.)
So I'm +8 from you, meaning I have until halfway the afternoon on d-day to get a deck in.

I already have one though. It's a tribute to the person who's reviving my old thing. :cool:
I'll put it in the form so you can see how things look when people send stuff in.


Reminder: Sample test round deadline is less than 10 hours from 12 minutes ago!

Looks like -16 was also a solution?

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

Looks like -16 was also a solution?

It's a 24 hour clock, but I think you might end up on the wrong day of the week if you go that way

[dte]

It's a 24 hour clock, but I think you might end up on the wrong day of the week if you go that way

Well, Asthereal thought he had until mid afternoon Monday, turns out it is midnight Sunday in Europe.
So, more -6 than +8, or did I miss something - besides 10 hours ?

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

Well, Asthereal thought he had until mid afternoon Monday, turns out it is midnight Sunday in Europe.
So, more -6 than +8, or did I miss something - besides 10 hours ?
What? Europe has Monday before I do

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

Oh I meant 22, or something

[dte]

Oh I meant 22, or something

I am quite familiar with writing here the wrong date :)

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

I am quite familiar with writing here the wrong date :)

I think I thought it was Sunday when I posted
I have a two month old so just assume I'm wrong about anything for the next few years until she can sleep through the night

[Wrath of Pie]

I think I thought it was Sunday when I posted
I have a two month old so just assume I'm wrong about anything for the next few years until she can sleep through the night

Noted.

[silkster]

Reminder: Sample test round deadline is less than 10 hours from 12 minutes ago!

Wait, I'm confused. When you declared your time to be 8:30, did you mean PM? I assumed you meant AM, which puts you in Chicago time, which makes the deadline 11 hours and change from now.

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

You have 10 hours from now.
Right?
4+6?

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

TEST ROUND ENTRIES:
4 Dogs: Dryad Arbor, Subterranean Hangar, Dark Ritual, Razorlash Transmogrant Notes: N/A
Asthereal: Hickory Woodlot, City of Traitors, Mongrell Pack, Akroan Horse Notes: Four dogs in a pack and four soldiers in a horse suit is as close as I came to your name. :)
Wrath of Pie: Botanical Sanctum, Force of Will, Sea's Claim, Crashing Footfalls Notes: Can't submit a deck if the comprehensive rules don't define it as one
dte: Asmoranomardicadaistinaculdacar, Chancellor of the tangle, Grief, Aether vial Notes: N/A
Silkster: City of Traitors, The Mycosynth Gardens, Phyrexian Dreadnought, Noxious Revival Notes: N/A
E: Bonus TestUser Testy McGee: Forest, Subterranean Hanger, Dark Ritual, Grief

[Asthereal]

See, I had until the middle of the afternoon. I as completely correct. :cool:


TEST ROUND ENTRIES:
4 Dogs: Dryad Arbor, Subterranean Hangar, Dark Ritual, Razorlash Transmogrant Notes: N/A
Asthereal: Hickory Woodlot, City of Traitors, Mongrel Pack, Akroan Horse Notes: Four dogs in a pack and four soldiers in a horse suit is as close as I came to your name. :)
Wrath of Pie: Botanical Sanctum, Force of Will, Sea's Claim, Crashing Footfalls Notes: Can't submit a deck if the comprehensive rules don't define it as one
dte: Asmoranomardicadaistinaculdacar, Chancellor of the tangle, Grief, Aether vial Notes: N/A
Silkster: City of Traitors, The Mycosynth Gardens, Phyrexian Dreadnought, Noxious Revival Notes: N/A

Results for test round:
4 Dogs: Dryad Arbor, Subterranean Hangar, Dark Ritual, Razorlash Transmogrant WW
Okay, I think you trade Arbor for the Pack, but your 3/1 doesn't block, and I get an extra 1/1 every turn so my team gets bigger every turn and my clock is faster.

Asthereal: Hickory Woodlot, City of Traitors, Mongrel Pack, Akroan Horse <-me

Wrath of Pie: Botanical Sanctum, Force of Will, Sea's Claim, Crashing Footfalls LL
I can't cast things. Booh! Too good for test round.

dte: Asmoranomardicadaistinaculdacar, Chancellor of the tangle, Grief, Aether vial LL
Ugh, too complicated. But I'm guessing your deck with actual cards will defeat the memes. I'll write up LL for now.

Silkster: City of Traitors, The Mycosynth Gardens, Phyrexian Dreadnought, Noxious Revival LL
12/12 trample is pretty good against my randomness.

Total: 6 points, minus what I lose for the City of Traitors.

[dte]

4 Dogs: Dryad Arbor, Subterranean Hangar, Dark Ritual, Razorlash Transmogrant Notes: N/A
6-0

Asthereal: Hickory Woodlot, City of Traitors, Mongrell Pack, Akroan Horse Notes: Four dogs in a pack and four soldiers in a horse suit is as close as I came to your name. :)
Pretty good name mimic!
Less good 4cb deck, 6-0.

Wrath of Pie: Botanical Sanctum, Force of Will, Sea's Claim, Crashing Footfalls Notes: Can't submit a deck if the comprehensive rules don't define it as one
1-4 I think?
Didn't do the maths but seems right :)

dte: Asmoranomardicadaistinaculdacar, Chancellor of the tangle, Grief, Aether vial Notes: N/A
Me, with the longest card name for the longest pseudo meme. Quite less inventive than Asthereal.

Silkster: City of Traitors, The Mycosynth Gardens, Phyrexian Dreadnought, Noxious Revival Notes: N/A
0-6, noxious too good for me.

E: Bonus TestUser Testy McGee: Forest, Subterranean Hanger, Dark Ritual, Grief
4-1, the sad mirror.

[silkster]

4 Dogs: Dryad Arbor, Subterranean Hangar, Dark Ritual, Razorlash Transmogrant Notes: N/A
12/12 goes smashy smashy. I almost played a Dark Ritual this week.
6-0

Asthereal: Hickory Woodlot, City of Traitors, Mongrel Pack, Akroan Horse Notes: Four dogs in a pack and four soldiers in a horse suit is as close as I came to your name. :)
12/12 is too fast, but City of Traitors is bad for me. I'm glad our test round has a duplicate though.
6-0

Wrath of Pie: Botanical Sanctum, Force of Will, Sea's Claim, Crashing Footfalls Notes: Can't submit a deck if the comprehensive rules don't define it as one
Force of Will doesn't hurt me, but Sea's Claim does. If only City of Traitors kept its sacrifice clause!
0-6

dte: Asmoranomardicadaistinaculdacar, Chancellor of the tangle, Grief, Aether vial Notes: N/A
Aether Vial + Tangle is always fun because there are so many ways to fill out the deck.
6-0

Silkster: City of Traitors, The Mycosynth Gardens, Phyrexian Dreadnought, Noxious Revival Notes: N/A
Roar!

E: Bonus TestUser Testy McGee: Forest, Subterranean Hanger, Dark Ritual, Grief
Was this added after the fact to make more overlaps so that we'd see it play out more?
6-0

24 points against 5 opponents, one overlap, so (24/5)-1 = 3.8 round points, if I understand correctly.

[Wrath of Pie]

Wrath of Pie: Botanical Sanctum, Force of Will, Sea's Claim, Crashing Footfalls Notes: Can't submit a deck if the comprehensive rules don't define it as one

4 Dogs: Dryad Arbor, Subterranean Hangar, Dark Ritual, Razorlash Transmogrant Notes: N/A - WW
Asthereal: Hickory Woodlot, City of Traitors, Mongrell Pack, Akroan Horse Notes: Four dogs in a pack and four soldiers in a horse suit is as close as I came to your name. :) - WW
dte: Asmoranomardicadaistinaculdacar, Chancellor of the tangle, Grief, Aether vial Notes: N/A - WD - Changle stops the test round sweep.
Silkster: City of Traitors, The Mycosynth Gardens, Phyrexian Dreadnought, Noxious Revival Notes: N/A - WW
E: Bonus TestUser Testy McGee: Forest, Subterranean Hanger, Dark Ritual, Grief - WW - Might be able to win a game against Boaty McBoatface.

BTW, my note isn't a joke. (Short version: deck becomes a library, our cards start in hand, so hand is a more appropriate term than deck)

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

My deck: Dryad Arbor, Subterranean Hangar, Dark Ritual, Razorlash Transmogrant Notes: N/A

Asthereal: Hickory Woodlot, City of Traitors, Mongrell Pack, Akroan Horse Notes: Four dogs in a pack and four soldiers in a horse suit is as close as I came to your name. :)
0-2
Wrath of Pie: Botanical Sanctum, Force of Will, Sea's Claim, Crashing Footfalls Notes: Can't submit a deck if the comprehensive rules don't define it as one
0-2
dte: Asmoranomardicadaistinaculdacar, Chancellor of the tangle, Grief, Aether vial Notes: N/A
0-2
Silkster: City of Traitors, The Mycosynth Gardens, Phyrexian Dreadnought, Noxious Revival Notes: N/A
0-2
E: Bonus TestUser Testy McGee: Forest, Subterranean Hanger, Dark Ritual, Grief[/QUOTE]
2-0

so 2-8, That's 6 points for two wins.
Duplicates: Hanger and Ritual. Each used once, so -2.
4 Points for the round.

Testy McGee:
0-8. 0 points
Shared cards: Dark Ritual (1) Hangar (1) Grief (1) -3 points.
Shoot the moon? All loses, check. But: No, forest is not duplicated. No Forest disqualifies the attempt
-3 points total.

New banned list:
Dryad Arbor
Subterranean Hangar
Dark Ritual
Razorlash
Hickory Woodlot
City of Traitors
Mongreel Pack
Akroan Horse
Botanical Sanctum
Force of Will
Seal's Claim
Crashing Footfalls
Asmo
CChancellor of the Tangle
Grief
Aether Vial
City of traitors
Mycosynth Gardens
Dreadnought
Noxious Revival

[dte]

Silk and 4dogs do count the duplicate fairly differently, i.e. before and after dividing by the number of players.

I am very fine with either system.
In the second case, it is much less impactful, and so not much incentive to build around potential duplicates.

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

So I will be honest I did not consider season points when I made the rules.
For those who do you may want to consider how to apply? This is basically a hyper-gimmick round a year since last season so maybe you want to skip it.

[silkster]

A penalty of only a single point seems almost irrelevant. Perhaps a penalty of an entire round point is too severe, but I think it'll do a good job of forcing diversity. It might feel a bit random when you get struck down, but the whole thing is just for fun anyway. What do others think of this?

Once you decide this, we're ready to start, right? And to confirm, your time zone is Chicago time, which is CST, Central Standard Time, UTC-6.

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

Once you decide this, we're ready to start, right? And to confirm, your time zone is Chicago time, which is CST, Central Standard Time, UTC-6.
Yes

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

OK! Let's start round 1. Deadline is the 11th at 6am my time (chicago)
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLScW_QHn29mO7-FqHi_t9EV2BosZNQrj1tqMfK8EcLnK1HrGMg/viewform?usp=sf_link
submit your lists here!

[silkster]

Is the penalty per overlap one match point (the same as you would win for a draw) or one round point?

Also, I assume that the ban list starts blank (except for Lab Man, Thassa's Oracle, and Jace WoM), but it's good to make sure.

[dte]

Is the penalty per overlap one match point (the same as you would win for a draw) or one round point?

Also, I assume that the ban list starts blank (except for Lab Man, Thassa's Oracle, and Jace WoM), but it's good to make sure.

Question number 3, do we also get a penalty for basic lands, or ate they exempt?

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

Is the penalty per overlap one match point (the same as you would win for a draw) or one round point?

Also, I assume that the ban list starts blank (except for Lab Man, Thassa's Oracle, and Jace WoM), but it's good to make sure.
Imagine a phantom player, who has tied with everyone else this round 0-0-1 except you who they beat 1-0, your score is going to be one point lower than everyone else
Banned list is blank except as stated in the OP.
Whatever is banned in legacy, plus thoracle, jace, and labman (etc)

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

Question number 3, do we also get a penalty for basic lands, or ate they exempt?

Exempted in big bold letters

[dte]

Exempted in big bold letters

Thanks!


Imagine a phantom player, who has tied with everyone else this round 0-0-1 except you who they beat 1-0, your score is going to be one point lower than everyone else


Here I still don't get it:



24 points against 5 opponents, one overlap, so (24/5)-1 = 3.8 round points, if I understand correctly.

So was Silkster score 3.8 as above, or (24-1)/5=4.6?
That would lead to two very different decks (or hands) for me.


Btw, great idea to have the test round :)

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

Thanks!



Here I still don't get it:



So was Silkster score 3.8 as above, or (24-1)/5=4.6?
That would lead to two very different decks (or hands) for me.


Btw, great idea to have the test round :)

24-1
________
5

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

REMINDER!
You only have the weekend to submit your decks.
I only have entries from Asthereal and dte
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLScW_QHn29mO7-FqHi_t9EV2BosZNQrj1tqMfK8EcLnK1HrGMg/viewform?usp=sf_link

[Wrath of Pie]

Pro tip to FourDogs: don't put the entries for the next round on the score spreadsheet

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

Pro tip to FourDogs: don't put the entries for the next round on the score spreadsheet

I think you found a bug in sheets because the entries are supposed to be tied to a spreadsheet only I can see that come directly from the form

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

It's almost tomorrow!
And the thing about tomorrow is it's the deadline

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

Four dogs: Ancient Tomb, Damping Sphere, leyline of the void, mutavault Notes: N/A
Asthereal: Chancellor of the Annex, Karakas, Lion's Eye Diamond, Unburial Rites Notes: N/A
dte: Fountain of cho, Wasteland , Chancellor of the annex, Solitude Notes: Nope
Wrath of Pie: Swamp, Evil Presence, Unmask, Corpulent Corpse Notes: N/A
Silkster: Karakas, Cenn's Tactician, Leyline of Singularity, Force of Will Notes: N/A

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

I.... think I messed up here and got too clever. I switched last minute from City to tomb thinking City would be used first, and also wouldn't let me play the man land after t1. But the damage from tomb makes my deck unable to win games.
Butttt two of you fell into my trap card!
Asthreal: Unable to win through leyline. 0-0-2
Dte: Unable to win through sphere, and I can pay the one before you can cast a spell. 0-0-2
Wraith of Pie: You can turn my blocker into a swamp and sphere doesn't stop suspend. 0-2
Silkster: Make the guy a 3/3 and I can't block 0-2.

0-4-4
4 points. No dupes

[dte]

Dte: Unable to win through sphere, and I can pay the one before you can cast a spell. 0-0-2

Maybe you missed wasteland?

[dte]

Four dogs: Ancient Tomb, Damping Sphere, leyline of the void, mutavault Notes: N/A
6-0. Waste your first land to prevent sphere to resolve, win long time later.
6

Asthereal: Chancellor of the Annex, Karakas, Lion's Eye Diamond, Unburial Rites Notes: N/A
6-0, waste karakas, win long time later.
12

dte: Fountain of cho, Wasteland , Chancellor of the annex, Solitude Notes: Nope
Me, on chancellor/wasteland.

Wrath of Pie: Swamp, Evil Presence, Unmask, Corpulent Corpse Notes: N/A
0-6. Swamp is tough to beat.
Edit: 1-4, see below.
12

Silkster: Karakas, Cenn's Tactician, Leyline of Singularity, Force of Will Notes: N/A
6-0, you cannot do much through chancellor + waste.
18

1 other chancellor played, 17 points.
17/4=4,25

Edit: WoP MU.
To win, WoP can't let CC resolves while I still hold Solitude.
Can chancellor race?
Me OTP
T1 fountain go
T1 suspend CC (5)
T2 wasteland, 1c
T2 cc4, unmask, pay tax, discard Solitude.
T3 2c
T3 cc3
T4 3c
T4 2c
T5 cc4
T5 cc1
T6 cc5
T6 ccco, attack with haste d17
T7 cc6
T7 d14
T8 cast chancellor (6c + waste)
T8 d11
T9 W15
T9 d8
T10 W10
T10 d5
T11 W5
T11 d2
T12 W0

With one more turn, WoP should win OTP, and draw OTD (pitch cc to unmask, evil presence my fountain). 4-1 WoP?

It would lead to 18/4=4.5

[FTW]

It's almost tomorrow!
And the thing about tomorrow is it's the deadline

I must have missed the time zone for the deadline. Thought I still had time. Next round!

I had a Channex deck worse than dtes. Would have had a mediocre score and just took away from the other Channex scores.

[silkster]

Four dogs: Ancient Tomb, Damping Sphere, leyline of the void, mutavault Notes: N/A
6-0.

Asthereal: Chancellor of the Annex, Karakas, Lion's Eye Diamond, Unburial Rites Notes: N/A
2-2. You can force a draw by casting nothing and I can't make a threat. I can force a draw by starting with Leyline in play.

dte: Fountain of cho, Wasteland , Chancellor of the annex, Solitude Notes: Nope
0-6. I remembered Chancellor earlier in the week, but forgot when submitting. Well played.

Wrath of Pie: Swamp, Evil Presence, Unmask, Corpulent Corpse Notes: N/A
6-0. This is my one slightly interesting match. I need to keep Leyline in hand. I counter either the Unmask or one of the two other cards, and either my 1/1 beats Evil Presence or my growing threat beats Corpulent Corpse.

Silkster: Karakas, Cenn's Tactician, Leyline of Singularity, Force of Will Notes: N/A
I remember being crushed by Leyline Karakas before I knew about the combo, but I haven't really had a chance to play it.

One duplication on the Karakas.
14-1=13
13/4 = 3.25


I had a Channex deck worse than dtes. Would have had a mediocre score and just took away from the other Channex scores.
I wouldn't have minded more Chancellor's taking away each other's points. :)

FourDogs is Chicago time, which is relatively late. You get about 6 extra hours compared to those European hosts!

[Wrath of Pie]

Wrath of Pie: Swamp, Evil Presence, Unmask, Corpulent Corpse Notes: N/A

Four dogs: Ancient Tomb, Damping Sphere, leyline of the void, mutavault Notes: N/A - WW
Asthereal: Chancellor of the Annex, Karakas, Lion's Eye Diamond, Unburial Rites Notes: N/A - WL
dte: Fountain of cho, Wasteland , Chancellor of the annex, Solitude Notes: Nope - WD
Silkster: Karakas, Cenn's Tactician, Leyline of Singularity, Force of Will Notes: N/A - LL

4w1d = 13 points

I didn't think anyone would straight up lose to Corpulent Corpse, but FourDogs had to prove me wrong. (Hopefully the daughter's cute to compensate.)

[FTW]

I expected to see cards like Force of Will, Chancellor of the Annex, and Karakas but did not expect to see Corpulent Corpse banned in round 1!

[Asthereal]

I expected to see cards like Force of Will, Chancellor of the Annex, and Karakas but did not expect to see Corpulent Corpse banned in round 1!

I thought City of Traitors and Force of Will were already banned.
Or was that a whatever round and were those bannings hypothetical as an exercise?

This season has started out a little confusing for me. But that may be me, I just finished a conference again and my brain is foggy as heck.

Anyway:
Four dogs: Ancient Tomb, Damping Sphere, leyline of the void, mutavault DD (uh.. can you not win?)
Asthereal: Chancellor of the Annex, Karakas, Lion's Eye Diamond, Unburial Rites (me)
dte: Fountain of cho, Wasteland , Chancellor of the annex, Solitude LL (you had my deck in mind, I see - I thought this might be too slow)
Wrath of Pie: Swamp, Evil Presence, Unmask, Corpulent Corpse WL (OTP=OP)
Silkster: Karakas, Cenn's Tactician, Leyline of Singularity, Force of Will DD (I don't do anything, Cenn's gets countered.)

So 7 points minus 2 for cards played by others gets me 5 points for the round?
If we go for season points divided by opponents, that gets me 5 / 4 = 1,25 SP
Unless I'm missing something, which may very well be the case.

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

I had a long post but it got eaten. Expect a Jan 1 deadline and I'll write it up hopefully by eod

[FTW]

TEST ROUND ENTRIES:
Asthereal: Hickory Woodlot, City of Traitors, Mongrell Pack, Akroan Horse Notes: Four dogs in a pack and four soldiers in a horse suit is as close as I came to your name. :)

I was hoping to see this in the WBURG round:
Pack Leader
Goldhound
Wild Dogs
Banehound

No horse suit though! Akroan Horse was a nice touch.

[Asthereal]

I was hoping to see this in the WBURG round:
Pack Leader
Goldhound
Wild Dogs
Banehound

No horse suit though! Akroan Horse was a nice touch.
Yeah, my apologies. I was trying to win this time. Not succesfully, obviously, but still. :cool:

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

SCORES

Four Dogs 2pts, 0-2-6 (-1)
DTE 18pts, 6-1-1 (-1)
Asthreal 7pts, 1-3-4 (-2)
Silkster 13pts, 4-2-2 (-1)
Wrath of Pie 13pts 4-3-1 (-0)
FTW 0pts

Ok I think after a few hiccups things went pretty well, but I think we should increase the penalty to 2 points starting... NOW.

Deadline:
JANUARY FIRST IS THE DEADLINE FOR THE NEXT ROUND OF DECKS AT SIX AM CENTRAL
You can use the old form to submit decks, since the receiving sheet doesn't care.

Banned list:

Initial cards plus,
Ancient Tomb
Damping Sphere
leyline of the void
mutavault
Chancellor of the Annex
Karakas
Lion's Eye Diamond
Unburial Rites
Foundtain of Cho
Wasteland
Solitude
Evil Presence
Unmask
Corpulent Corpse
Cenn's Tactician
Leyline of Singularity
Force of Will

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

I thought City of Traitors
Anyway:
Four dogs: Ancient Tomb, Damping Sphere, leyline of the void, mutavault DD (uh.. can you not win?).

I can't because I thought city would be too plentiful so I played the other sol land not remembering that it has a real drawback and thinking I NEEDED the t1 sphere.

[FTW]

Are we past the deadline decks in?

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

SUBMISSIONS!

FTW: Volcanic Island, Burning Inquiry, Nether Spirit, Foil Notes: N/A
Asthereal: Ghost Quarter, Tropical Island, Daze, Crashing Footfalls Notes: Round 2. Fight! Other than that, no. :)
dte: Leyline of anticipation, nether spirit, simian spirit guide, burning inquiry Notes: N/A
Wrath of Pie: City of Traitors, Field of Ruin, Sphere of Resistance, Chronomaton Notes: It's a real Sphere!

[FTW]

I thought my 4th card was Foil. Was there a problem with the form entry?
For obvious reasons, Crashing Footfalls makes 0 sense in that deck.

Edit: Leyline of Anticipation, Simian Spirit Guide, Burning Inquiry, Nether Spirit would have been good!! (A mix of mine & dtes)

Edit2: Hmm it looks like that IS dtes deck and everyone's 4th card got shifted by 1 (except 4Dogs). If the decks don't look right, assume dte's on the Tier 0 deck and solve the puzzle from there.

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

I'll double check but I'm pretty sure it's just copy and paste. The response sheet is currently public so if it needs correcting you can

[FTW]

I'll double check but I'm pretty sure it's just copy and paste. The response sheet is currently public so if it needs correcting you can

I think all the 4th cards are wrong.

I'm on Foil, Asthereal is on Footfalls, dte is on Burning Inquiry, and Wrath is on Chrono instead of a 3 card deck.

Edit: For the Function POSTABLE, the argument for Card 4 references the wrong row in column E. Notice how the number is different for E vs the others?
This error only happened in round 2. I don't know why. The code needs to be fixed. I didn't have access to edit the code.

[FTW]

FTW: Volcanic Island, Burning Inquiry, Nether Spirit, Foil Notes: Round "4th card blind" - extrapolate the unknown 4th card.

Asthereal: Ghost Quarter, Tropical Island, Daze, Crashing Footfalls
OTP Inquiry gets you.
OTD you suspend Footfalls. If I wait to Foil, you Daze me. If I cast Inquiry, you Daze me.
WL 3-3

dte: Leyline of anticipation, nether spirit, simian spirit guide, burning inquiry
If you Inquiry first, I Foil you and only I get a Spirit! So you do nothing.
If I Inquiry, we both get Nether Spirits. So I do nothing either.
DD 2-2

Wrath of Pie: City of Traitors, Field of Ruin, Sphere of Resistance, Chronomaton
OTP Inquiry gets you.
OTD if you lead with Sphere, I have to Foil, then Nether Spirit stares at Chrono.
WD 4-1

Fourdogs: memnite, memnite, memnite, memnite
OTP Inquiry gets you.
OTD I Foil a Memnite but can't race 3, so I stay back to block.
WD 4-1

13 points (3 wins, 4 draws, 1 loss)
Overlap: Burning Inquiry & Nether Spirit (-4)
13-4=9 pts

dte's build is much better, but at least I took 4 points off!

[Wrath of Pie]

Wrath of Pie: City of Traitors, Field of Ruin, Sphere of Resistance, Chronomaton Notes: It's a real Sphere!

FTW: Volcanic Island, Burning Inquiry, Nether Spirit, Foil Notes: N/A - DL
Asthereal: Ghost Quarter, Tropical Island, Daze, Crashing Footfalls Notes: Round 2. Fight! Other than that, no. :) - WW - Chronomaton will always resolve, and I will have mana to make it larger even through Ghost Quarter.
dte: Leyline of anticipation, nether spirit, simian spirit guide, Burning Inquiry Notes: N/A - LL
Fourdogs: memnite, memnite, memnite, memnite Notes: hand empty attack attack - WW - Missed opportunity to call it Memenite.

4w1d = 13 points

Field of Ruin was a dud, but at least it didn't cost me 2 points.

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

0-1-1 1 point FTW: Volcanic Island, Burning Inquiry, Nether Spirit, Foil Notes: N/A
0-1-1 1 point Asthereal: Ghost Quarter, Tropical Island, Daze, Crashing Footfalls Notes: Round 2. Fight! Other than that, no. :)
0-2 dte: Leyline of anticipation, nether spirit, simian spirit guide, burning inquiry Notes: N/A
0-2 Wrath of Pie: City of Traitors, Field of Ruin, Sphere of Resistance, Chronomaton Notes: It's a real Sphere!

2 points 4 me

[dte]

FTW: Volcanic Island, Burning Inquiry, Nether Spirit, Foil Notes: N/A
2-2, mirror
2

Asthereal: Ghost Quarter, Tropical Island, Daze, Crashing Footfalls Notes: Round 2. Fight! Other than that, no. :)
6-0
8

dte: Leyline of anticipation, nether spirit, simian spirit guide, burning inquiry Notes: N/A
Me

Wrath of Pie: City of Traitors, Field of Ruin, Sphere of Resistance, Chronomaton Notes: It's a real Sphere!
6-0
14

4horses, 4 memnites
6-0
20

20-4, 16

[FTW]

FTW: Volcanic Island, Burning Inquiry, Nether Spirit, Foil Notes: N/A
2-2, mirror

20-4, 16

I successfully removed 8 points from your potential sweep, though failed to score much on my own.

T0 Inquiry was better than holding up an answer. You picked a good window to play that deck with the main T0 obstacles like Force of Will, Leyline of the Void and Chancellor of the Annex banned, but Leyline and Inquiry still legal. Smart choice!

[dte]

T0 Inquiry was better than holding up an answer. You picked a good window to play that deck with the main T0 obstacles like Force of Will, Leyline of the Void and Chancellor of the Annex banned, but Leyline and Inquiry still legal. Smart choice!

Thanks!
Actually my big motivation for Leyline of anticipation was to beat force of negation, which was the card I expected most after ghost quarter. Failed to materialise though.

[Wrath of Pie]

4horses, 4 memnites
6-0
20

This is better than Memenite, now I'm disappointed in myself.

[Asthereal]

Thanks!
Actually my big motivation for Leyline of anticipation was to beat force of negation, which was the card I expected most after ghost quarter. Failed to materialise though.
I was hoping people would overthink this and end up playing stuff that's good against those, which I would then prey upon.
Turns out I was the one overthinking this. Should just have played the most degenerative legal combo I could find.

EDIT: My results:
FTW: Volcanic Island, Burning Inquiry, Nether Spirit, Foil WL
Asthereal: Ghost Quarter, Tropical Island, Daze, Crashing Footfalls =me
dte: Leyline of anticipation, nether spirit, simian spirit guide, Burning Inquiry LL
Wrath of Pie: City of Traitors, Field of Ruin, Sphere of Resistance, Chronomaton LL
Fourdogs: memnite, memnite, memnite, memnite WD

7 points

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

Ok everyone!
Sorry for the delay, I'll make a new post with scores soon(next week) and then we can have a new deadline!
The 12th.
I'm going back to work next week so I'll finally be at a computer again too write all this down

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

UPDATED SCORES!
DTE 34 (+16)
Wrath of Pie 26 (+13)
Asthreal 14 (+7)
Silkster 13
FTW 9 (+9)

New Banned list:
Initial cards plus,
ghost quarter
memnite
city of traitors
leyline of anticipation
volcanic island
tropical island
field of ruin
burning inquiry
tropical island
nether spirit
crashing footfalls
chronomaton
burning inquary
foil

Ancient Tomb
Damping Sphere
leyline of the void
mutavault
Chancellor of the Annex
Karakas
Lion's Eye Diamond
Unburial Rites
Foundtain of Cho
Wasteland
Solitude
Evil Presence
Unmask
Corpulent Corpse
Cenn's Tactician
Leyline of Singularity
Force of Will

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

The deadline for the next round is the 19th. That gives you the rest of this week plus all of next week to make your amazing decks.
As always you have until 6am central time, where I will log into my computer, check the spreadhseet and say "ok, lets get decks going"

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

Did you know that if you haven't submitted a deck that there is still time?
Days even! Next monday! Plenty of time!

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

Did you know that you have all weekend to get your deck together for Monday?
And the best part is you only need four cards!
You don't even need them! You only have to name them!

[dte]

Did you know that you have all weekend to get your deck together for Monday?
And the best part is you only need four cards!
You don't even need them! You only have to name them!

How many hands so far?

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

I haven't looked, in the kind who will change my choice a thousand times so I need to keep that freedom open by not peeking

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

THE DECKS!

dte: Reanimate , Grief, Swamp, Force of despair Notes: It's a scam
GoblinSmashmaster: Chancellor of the Forge, Chancellor of the Forge, Pyrokinesis, Leyline of the Meek Notes: Goblin smash!
Wrath of Pie: Bayou, Swarm Shambler, Blackmail, Pithing Needle Notes: N/A
FTW: Agadeem's Awakening, Grief, Force of Despair, Reanimate Notes: Scam
Four dogs: Leyline of Sanctity, Leyline of the Guildpact, Scion of Draco, Serra's Sanctum Notes: LEYLINES BABY!

E: I had to correct a few typos, Goblin Smashmaster I think you meant of the forge and I meant Serra's sanctum

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

I spent all weekend trying to find a land that tapped for 2 so I could do: Sol Land, Leyline, Scion, Daze. But in the end I settled on this. (the other idea was Leyline binding instead of Leyline of Sanctity, and not be able to cast Scion until t2 and force draws on 1 threat decks.)

E: Mus in progress
dte: Reanimate , Grief, Swamp, Force of despair Notes: It's a scam
2 DD: If you scam grief you can't cast Force and Scion Races, so you hold Force forever

GoblinSmashmaster: Chancellor of the Forge, Chancellor of the Forge, Pyrokinesis, Leyline of the Meek Notes: Goblin smash!
6 WW: Lifelink means you can't race.

Wrath of Pie: Bayou, Swarm Shambler, Blackmail, Pithing Needle Notes: N/A
6 WW: Flying!

FTW: Agadeem's Awakening, Grief, Force of Despair, Reanimate Notes: Scam
2 DD: Hey wait a minute

Four dogs: Leyline of Sanctity, Leyline of the Guildpact, Scion of Draco, Serra's Sanctum Notes: LEYLINES BABY!
Leyline dominating all formats, even 4cb!

16 points 4-0-4

[dte]

dte: Reanimate , Grief, Swamp, Force of despair Notes: It's a scam
Me, getting hit by the rules this time!

GoblinSmashmaster: Chancellor of the Forge, Chancellor of the Forge, Pyrokinesis, Leyline of the Meek Notes: Goblin smash!
2-2. My alternative deck used chancellor of the forge (for T1 kill), so I would also have lost points on the round rule, and would have scored exactly the same overall (5).

Wrath of Pie: Bayou, Swarm Shambler, Blackmail, Pithing Needle Notes: N/A
4-1.
6

FTW: Agadeem's Awakening, Grief, Force of Despair, Reanimate Notes: Scam
3-3. And -6 :(
3

Four dogs: Leyline of Sanctity, Leyline of the Guildpact, Scion of Draco, Serra's Sanctum Notes: LEYLINES BABY!
2-2
5

5 points this round. Not a great score, but it feels nice that the round rule work!

[dte]

I spent all weekend trying to find a land that tapped for 2 so I could do: Sol Land, Leyline, Scion, Daze. But in the end I settled on this. (the other idea was Leyline binding instead of Leyline of Sanctity, and not be able to cast Scion until t2 and force draws on 1 threat decks.)



Edit: below is just me not knowing the rules :/
Kept, otherwise 4dogs' post would be weird (and maybe others would learn as well that waste is not a basic land type).

You also had the option to go waste and leyline binding (could cast both leyline and draco T1). Or waste and needle or chronomaton or daze or second draco.
But given the meta you made the right choice!

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

You also had the option to go waste and leyline binding (could cast both leyline and draco T1). Or waste and needle or chronomaton.
But given the meta, you made the right choice!

Wastes doesn't have a basic land type and doesn't count for domain.

[dte]

Wastes doesn't have a basic land type and doesn't count for domain.

Really? Damn.
Good you're telling me, I was sure it had :/

[Wrath of Pie]

Wrath of Pie: Bayou, Swarm Shambler, Blackmail, Pithing Needle Notes: N/A

dte: Reanimate , Grief, Swamp, Force of despair Notes: It's a scam - DL
GoblinSmashmaster: Chancellor of the Forge, Chancellor of the Forge, Pyrokinesis, Leyline of the Meek Notes: Goblin smash! - LL - You never reveal Leyline of the Meek so you can hide Pyrokinesis from Blackmail.
FTW: Agadeem's Awakening, Grief, Force of Despair, Reanimate Notes: Scam - DL
Four dogs: Leyline of Sanctity, Leyline of the Guildpact, Scion of Draco, Serra's Sanctum Notes: LEYLINES BABY! - LL

2d = 2 points

Not a good round for Blackmail. Or Pithing Needle.

[FTW]

FTW: Reanimate , Grief, Agadeem's Awakening, Force of despair Notes: Scam

GoblinSmashmaster: I could Force the tokens to draw but then can't make a threat. I could also Grief Chancellor & Reanimate (getting 1 Goblin token), but then you can use Pyro to make Chancellor trade with 1 token. DD 2-2

Wrath of Pie: OTP Grief the Shambler, Reanimate & take Needle.
OTD if you cast Shambler first, I Force it and Reanimate. You can Needle but that 1 1/1 is the only creature and wins. If you Blackmail first, taking any 1 card means I can't do 2 things (Force + Reanimate, Grief + Reanimate), so I can only answer Shambler with either Force or Grief.
WD 4-1

Dte: OTP scam you, discarding Force first, then Grief. OTD you scam me.
WL 3-3

Four dogs: 2nd Leyline worked well for you!! Can't discard you. But I can kill Scion with Force and Reanimate, so you can't cast Scion either. DD 2-2

(2 wins, 5 draw, 1 loss) 11 pts - 6 = 5 pts

[FTW]

dte: Reanimate , Grief, Swamp, Force of despair Notes: It's a scam

5 points this round. Not a great score, but it feels nice that the round rule work!

-8pts including same Notes?

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

-8pts including same Notes?

-6 by my count. Swamp and Awakening don't match. Did someone else use Grief, Force, or Reanimate?

[silkster]

I keep forgetting with these multi-week breaks. I remembered to check last weekend, but I like to think about it closer to the deadline, but then we have a holiday Monday today and I totally forgot again. One of these weeks I'll remember!

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

I keep forgetting with these multi-week breaks. I remembered to check last weekend, but I like to think about it closer to the deadline, but then we have a holiday Monday today and I totally forgot again. One of these weeks I'll remember!
I'll tell you now the goal for next round is the 4th

[dte]

I keep forgetting with these multi-week breaks. I remembered to check last weekend, but I like to think about it closer to the deadline, but then we have a holiday Monday today and I totally forgot again. One of these weeks I'll remember!


I'll tell you now the goal for next round is the 4th

As we already know the next banlist and 4dogs doesn't look at the entries, is there any drawbacks to send lists whenever?

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

As we already know the next banlist and 4dogs doesn't look at the entries, is there any drawbacks to send lists whenever?

The spreadsheet with the entries is currently public .
I'll make it private some time tomorrow or Wednesday once everyone is satisfied their decks were submitted correctly
E: thy way it works is the submission form is tied to a sheet in a workbook who can only be updated by one of my google alt accounts. When i say submissions are open I set that sheet to hidden so no one can see it except my alt. I am not usually logged in as my alt so I don't accidentally see it. Then I usually figure out my deck at or before deadline day. On deadline day I switch to my alt, go to the workbook and unhide the sheet. Copy the output cells in the bottom, and post here.

[GoblinSmashmaster]

GoblinSmashmaster Results for Round Leylines!

dte: Reanimate , Grief, Swamp, Force of despair Notes: It's a scam
You use the force 2-2

Wrath of Pie: Bayou, Swarm Shambler, Blackmail, Pithing Needle Notes: N/A
Goblin smash! 6-0

FTW: Agadeem's Awakening, Grief, Force of Despair, Reanimate Notes: Scam
You use the force 2-2

Four dogs: Leyline of Sanctity, Leyline of the Guildpact, Scion of Draco, Serra's Sanctum Notes: LEYLINES BABY!
Hexproof lifelink :( 0-6

10 points!

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

THE SCORES HAVE BEEN UPDATED!

Feel free to submit your decklists, and the deadline is March 4th at 6am as always

Good luck!

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

The deadline is monday!the deadline is monday!the deadline is monday!the deadline is monday!the deadline is monday!the deadline is monday!the deadline is monday!the deadline is monday!the deadline is monday!the deadline is monday!the deadline is monday!the deadline is monday!the deadline is monday!the deadline is monday!the deadline is monday!the deadline is monday!the deadline is monday!the deadline is monday!the deadline is monday!the deadline is monday!the deadline is monday!the deadline is monday!the deadline is monday!the deadline is monday!the deadline is monday!the deadline is monday!the deadline is monday!the deadline is monday!the deadline is monday!the deadline is monday!the deadline is monday!the deadline is monday!the deadline is monday!the deadline is monday!the deadline is monday!the deadline is monday!the deadline is monday!the deadline is monday!the deadline is monday!the deadline is monday!the deadline is monday!the deadline is monday!the deadline is monday!the deadline is monday!the deadline is monday!the deadline is monday!the deadline is monday!the deadline is monday!

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

The work week, for many of you is coming to a close and that means:
THIS IS THE LAST WEEKEND TO MAKE A DECK FOR THE DEADLINE!
What does that mean?
It means that you should pick four cards, write them down, commit them into your heart, and submit them... to me.
For the morn of the 4th. Monday. They shall fight.

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

Thank God it's not tomorrow!
If it was tomorrow your decklists would already be due!
But it's still today!
And you can still submit!

[silkster]

I think the banlist is missing: Daze, Simian Spirit Guide, Sphere of Resistance, and maybe others.

I don't understand why dte and FTW got -6 each. Shouldn't it be -3 because they played 3 cards that got played by another player?

[dte]

I don't understand why dte and FTW got -6 each. Shouldn't it be -3 because they played 3 cards that got played by another player?

The penalty had been increased to 2 points per card to give more incentive to originality. It has more impact.

And to not drown 4dogs commandable efforts on deadline communication: Deadline is today!!!!!

[FTW]

I think the banlist is missing: Daze, Simian Spirit Guide, Sphere of Resistance, and maybe others.

Thanks for catching that. I was going to submit those cards.

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

THE DECKS ARE IN!

dte: Cabal therapy , Dark depth, Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, Vampire hexmage Notes: Naming path to exile!
GoblinSmashmaster: Saprazzan Cove, Force of Negation, Subtlety, Gadget Technician Notes: Goblin smash!
4dogs: Mental Misstep, Scythe Tiger, Forest, Surgical extraction Notes: N/A
Wrath of Pie: Scrubland, Doomed Traveler, Cabal Therapy, Path to Exile Notes: N/A
Silkster: Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, Cabal Therapy, Thespian Stage, Dark Depths Notes: N/A
FTW: Cabal Therapy, Young Wolf, Hexdrinker, Overgrown TOmb Notes: N/A

[FTW]

The decks are in!
e:wait stop the count

Wasn't that last round?

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

Wasn't that last round?

No, that was no round what are you talking about? We stopped the count.

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

4dogs: Mental Misstep, Scythe Tiger, Forest, Surgical extraction Notes: N/A

0-2 dte: Cabal therapy , Dark depth, Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, Vampire hexmage Notes: Naming path to exile!
Uhhh that's a 20/20
0-2 GoblinSmashmaster: Saprazzan Cove, Force of Negation, Subtlety, Gadget Technician Notes: Goblin smash!
TWO creatures? That's illegal. What do you mean there's actually 3 of them!?
2-0 Wrath of Pie: Scrubland, Doomed Traveler, Cabal Therapy, Path to Exile Notes: N/A
OTP my 3/2 can't be stopped. OTD: If you cast Traveler First, I counter it and your therapy tiger, draw. If you therapy first, I counter, then you cast traveler and I surgical in response. You lose to tiger here.
Therapy costs mana the first time
0-2 Silkster: Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, Cabal Therapy, Thespian Stage, Dark Depths Notes: N/A
Ive seen this 20/20 before
FTW: Cabal Therapy, Young Wolf, Hexdrinker, Overgrown TOmb Notes: N/A
0-2

6 points, no penalty.

[FTW]

FTW: Cabal Therapy, Young Wolf, Hexdrinker, Overgrown TOmb Notes: N/A

I was planning on saving Depths for next round. Guess this was the round for Depths! Too slow.

dte: Cabal therapy , Dark depth, Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, Vampire hexmage Notes: Naming path to exile!
OTP Therapy Hexmage, you Therapy one creature, the other kills you.
OTD If you Therapy my Therapy, I play Young Wolf and flashback Therapy your Hexmage. If you Therapy my Wolf, I Therapy your Hexmage. Can't stop Therapy on Hexmage.
WW 6-0

GoblinSmashmaster: Saprazzan Cove, Force of Negation, Subtlety, Gadget Technician Notes: Goblin smash!
OTP Therapy. If you don't Force, I name Subtlety. Then I play Wolf and flashback Therapy to discard the Goblin (or you Force exiling the Goblin).
If you do Force the Therapy (pitching one creature), I lose the flashback but you still only have 1 card left. Either turn 6 Subtlety or turn 5 2/2 morph. Hexdrinker races either.
OTD the same thing. Subtlety 1 turn sooner is still too slow to race T2 Hexdrinker.
WW 6-0

4dogs: Mental Misstep, Scythe Tiger, Forest, Surgical extraction Notes: N/A
OTP Therapy, you counter with Mental Misstep. You play Tiger, I play Hexdrinker. If you attack into Hexdrinker, I trade and win with 1/1 Wolf. Otherwise L8 and win.
OTD you get Tiger faster but same thing.
WW 6-0

Wrath of Pie: Scrubland, Doomed Traveler, Cabal Therapy, Path to Exile Notes: N/A
OTP Young Wolf. If you Path it, I play Hexdrinker and win. If you Therapy my Hexdrinker, I play Therapy + flashback discarding your Traveler & Therapy, 2/2 wolf wins. If you Therapy my Therapy, I flashback at Path and Hexdrinker wins. If you play Traveler, I play Therapy + flashback at Path & Therapy, you flashback Therapy at Hexdrinker, and my 2/2 Wolf races your 1/1. Win
OTD If you Therapy my Therapy, I play Wolf and flashback Therapy at Traveler, then you only have 1 Path vs 2 threats and I'd win
If you play Traveler first, I play Wolf. If you Path the Wolf, I play Hexdrinker and win. If you instead Therapy + flashback, you strip my Hexdrinker + Therapy and have a 1/1 flyer, then I flashback Therapy at Path to get a 2/2 Wolf and race you.
If you Therapy my Hexdrinker or Wolf, I Therapy your Traveler, then you have Path for my remaining creature so we draw.
WD 4-1

Silkster: Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, Cabal Therapy, Thespian Stage, Dark Depths Notes: N/A
Can't beat lands.dec
LL 0-6

22 points (7 wins, 1 draw, 2 loss)
- 6 for Therapy x 3
= 16 pts

-6 again for Notes: N/A x3? I need more original notes!

[Wrath of Pie]

Wrath of Pie: Scrubland, Doomed Traveler, Cabal Therapy, Path to Exile Notes: N/A

dte: Cabal therapy , Dark depth, Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, Vampire hexmage Notes: Naming path to exile! - WD - Path to Exile seems like the least of your concerns.
GoblinSmashmaster: Saprazzan Cove, Force of Negation, Subtlety, Gadget Technician Notes: Goblin smash! - LL - I apparently can't beat creatures I can't target.
4dogs: Mental Misstep, Scythe Tiger, Forest, Surgical extraction Notes: N/A - LL - Two threats I can't target? In one round?
Silkster: Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, Cabal Therapy, Thespian Stage, Dark Depths Notes: N/A - WL
FTW: Cabal Therapy, Young Wolf, Hexdrinker, Overgrown TOmb Notes: N/A - DL

2w2d - 6 points (that's a lot of Cabal Therapy) = 2 points

I wasn't expecting this round to be the Card Blind therapy session, although I really should have.

[dte]

dte: Cabal therapy , Dark depth, Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, Vampire hexmage Notes: Naming path to exile!
Not original enough...

GoblinSmashmaster: Saprazzan Cove, Force of Negation, Subtlety, Gadget Technician Notes: Goblin smash!
6-0
6

4dogs: Mental Misstep, Scythe Tiger, Forest, Surgical extraction Notes: N/A
6-0
12

Wrath of Pie: Scrubland, Doomed Traveler, Cabal Therapy, Path to Exile Notes: N/A
1-4
-2
11

Silkster: Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, Cabal Therapy, Thespian Stage, Dark Depths Notes: N/A
3-3
-6
8

FTW: Cabal Therapy, Young Wolf, Hexdrinker, Overgrown TOmb Notes: N/A
0-6
-2
6

Have to be more original...
Which means that the penalty does work well!

[GoblinSmashmaster]

GoblinSmashmaster Results for Round "Therapy session"

dte: Cabal therapy , Dark depth, Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, Vampire hexmage Notes: Naming path to exile!
HexLage :( 0-6

GoblinSmashmaster: Saprazzan Cove, Force of Negation, Subtlety, Gadget Technician Notes: Goblin smash!
That's me!

4dogs: Mental Misstep, Scythe Tiger, Forest, Surgical extraction Notes: N/A
Goblin smash! 6-0

Wrath of Pie: Scrubland, Doomed Traveler, Cabal Therapy, Path to Exile Notes: N/A
Goblin smash! 6-0

Silkster: Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, Cabal Therapy, Thespian Stage, Dark Depths Notes: N/A
Thespian's Lage :( 0-6

FTW: Cabal Therapy, Young Wolf, Hexdrinker, Overgrown TOmb Notes: N/A
Progenitus :( 0-6

12 points!

[silkster]

dte: Cabal therapy , Dark depth, Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, Vampire hexmage Notes: Naming path to exile!
WD. You make on turn 2, but can't attack until T3 anyway, so I can block on the draw.
WL Fixed

GoblinSmashmaster: Saprazzan Cove, Force of Negation, Subtlety, Gadget Technician Notes: Goblin smash!
WW. My first plan for this round was Force of Negation + Subtlety, until I noticed that most of the land hate was gone but Dark Depths wasn't.

4dogs: Mental Misstep, Scythe Tiger, Forest, Surgical extraction Notes: N/A
WW - I thought Mental Misstep was not legacy legal.

Wrath of Pie: Scrubland, Doomed Traveler, Cabal Therapy, Path to Exile Notes: N/A
WL, hinging on whether you can keep Path.

Silkster: Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, Cabal Therapy, Thespian Stage, Dark Depths Notes: N/A
I actually thought that people would play Thoughtseize over Therapy this week. Whoops.

FTW: Cabal Therapy, Young Wolf, Hexdrinker, Overgrown TOmb Notes: N/A[/QUOTE]
WW

I looked through the thread and couldn't find the rule change. It's also not updated in the original post, which still says -1 point per card. Commence the uh oh.
5 matching cards means -10. (I just panicked when I saw my own deck and counted 4 matches before realizing.)

8W, 0D, 2L - 10 = 14.

[dte]

dte: Cabal therapy , Dark depth, Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, Vampire hexmage Notes: Naming path to exile!
WD. You make on turn 2, but can't attack until T3 anyway, so I can block on the draw.

Can you really block?
On my T2 OTP I make lage, while you only have a land in play. Then on your T2, you play a second land. Then I kill you.
I think it is WL.
Did I miss something?

[FTW]

dte: Cabal therapy , Dark depth, Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, Vampire hexmage Notes: Naming path to exile!
WD. You make on turn 2, but can't attack until T3 anyway, so I can block on the draw.

dte T1 Urborg. Therapy naming Therapy.
silk T1 Depths

dte T2 Depths. Hexmage. Marit Lage
silk T2 Stage

dte T3 attack for 20
Silk has Stage + Depths and 2 mana (dte's Urborg) but can't tap Stage twice. You need Thespian's Stage + 2 mana to make Marit Lage blocker.

WL 3-3


Silkster: Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, Cabal Therapy, Thespian's Stage, Dark Depths Notes: N/A
I actually thought that people would play Thoughtseize over Therapy this week. Whoops.

Therapy is so much better overall though: no life loss, can hit multiples, flashback mode. I like how Therapy flashback trumps the discard mirror vs Thoughtseize on the draw. They can't take the discard out of your hand to protect their threat, since you can play T1 creature + flashback, so you are guaranteed to discard at least 1 thing. I assume that's how Wrath ended up on the twin deck of mine, same concept, different color. Path was smart vs Depths but unfortunate vs 2 hexproof players!


I looked through the thread and couldn't find the rule change. It's also not updated in the original post, which still says -1 point per card. Commence the uh oh.

The original post also says Simian Spirit Guide and Daze are legal, and that Tropical Island is double banned because it's twice as good as Volcanic Island (don't tell UR Delver players).

The rule change happened in Round 2: post from 12-20-2023 01:52 PM on Page 4.
It's applied to every round other than Round 1.

4dogs did warn us that they were not going to the effort to update the first post as rigorously as Asthereal used to. It's a lot of work. Only 4 dogs not 8.

[silkster]

Can you really block?
On my T2 OTP I make lage, while you only have a land in play. Then on your T2, you play a second land. Then I kill you.
I think it is WL.
Did I miss something?

Nope. Just a simple mistake. Haven't though about these in a while.


Therapy is so much better overall though: no life loss, can hit multiples, flashback mode. I like how Therapy flashback trumps the discard mirror vs Thoughtseize on the draw. They can't take the discard out of your hand to protect their threat, since you can play T1 creature + flashback, so you are guaranteed to discard at least 1 thing. I assume that's how Wrath ended up on the twin deck of mine, same concept, different color. Path was smart vs Depths but unfortunate vs 2 hexproof players!

I was already on Depths and decided to play discard later. I wasn't thinking of flashing it back. Hitting multiples feels very unlikely to happen and even less likely to be relevant. The life loss is something but small. I agree that Therapy is better, but I thought people would take the 99%-likely-to-be-irrelevant drawbacks to be less penalized by the round rule. I certainly would have, but my level 2 lost to your (plural) level 0.

[FTW]

I was already on Depths and decided to play discard later. I wasn't thinking of flashing it back. Hitting multiples feels very unlikely to happen and even less likely to be relevant. The life loss is something but small. I agree that Therapy is better, but I thought people would take the 99%-likely-to-be-irrelevant drawbacks to be less penalized by the round rule. I certainly would have, but my level 2 lost to your (plural) level 0.

Didn't mean to criticize your choice. They're mostly the same in your deck. Those are reasons why others would choose Therapy. The upsides are irreplaceable in other decks (flashback, and life loss matters with slow threats). Maybe a reason to stick to Level 1.

Re doubles: It happens. I considered a deck with 2 SSG before you reminded us it was banned but not on the list.

[silkster]

All good. Doubles definitely happen, but it's a really small chance that forcing them to discard one isn't enough. I'm guessing that a deck playing two copies of SSG equally fails to function if it loses one or both of them.

Definitely reason to stick to level 1. I played myself. :S

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

THE SCORES ARE IN!
Silkster: 22 points
FTW: 22
DTE: 19
GoblinSmashmaster: 12
Wrath of Pie: 8
4Dogs:6

PENALTIES:
DTE: 10
Silkster: 10
FTW: 6
Wrath of Pie: 6
4 Dogs: 6 points for banned cards!
GoblinSmashMaster: 0 :D

Total for the round:
FTW: 16
Silkster: 14
GoblinSmashmaster: 12
DTE: 9
Wrath of Pie: 2
4Dogs: goose egg.

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

The new dead line ...
is
...

ROUND 4 DEADLINE: 18 March, 6am US Central Time

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

The new dead line ...
is
...

ROUND 4 DEADLINE: 18 March, 6am US Central Time

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

Psst

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

Players

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

That dead line?

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

*looks left and right, checking the mods are asleep*

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

That's tomorrow

[silkster]

I'm guessing we still use the same submissions link from the first post. It probably said "round 1" last time, but I somehow didn't notice then.

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

I see many of you figured out the password magic and have returned!
GoblinSmashmaster: Lotus Petal, Rite of Flame, Rite of Flame, Empty the Warrens Notes: Goblin smash!
dte: Geier Reach Sanitarium, Saprazzan Skerry, Show and tell, Emrakul, the Aeons Torn Notes: N/A
Wrath of Pie: Undiscovered Paradise, Thoughtseize, Durkwood Baloth, Stromkirk Noble Notes: N/A
Silkster: Swamp, Inquisition of Kozilek, Volatile Fault, Bitterblossom Notes: Treasure, whee!
Fourdogs: reclaim, forest, llanowar mentor, Vengeful Pharaoh Notes: N/A

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

Fourdogs: reclaim, forest, llanowar mentor, Vengeful Pharaoh Notes: N/A

GoblinSmashmaster: Lotus Petal, Rite of Flame, Rite of Flame, Empty the Warrens Notes: Goblin smash!
LW... Lose the race on the draw, but on the play I can block a turn earlier and if you attack I'll get stuck at 4 life. So you don't attack, but then I get to attack myself and win at 1 life.

dte: Geier Reach Sanitarium, Saprazzan Skerry, Show and tell, Emrakul, the Aeons Torn Notes: N/A
LL fuck anilhator

Wrath of Pie: Undiscovered Paradise, Thoughtseize, Durkwood Baloth, Stromkirk Noble Notes: N/A
DD You cannot win through the Pharaoh's Curse, but also you are not obligated to attack into it.

Silkster: Swamp, Inquisition of Kozilek, Volatile Fault, Bitterblossom Notes: Treasure, whee!
WW I like my army of Mentor curses vs your bitter blossom, but I haven't done the math. There might be a line where you wait until 3 attacking faeries and race

[dte]

GoblinSmashmaster: Lotus Petal, Rite of Flame, Rite of Flame, Empty the Warrens Notes: Goblin smash!
6-0, me faster.

dte: Geier Reach Sanitarium, Saprazzan Skerry, Show and tell, Emrakul, the Aeons Torn Notes: N/A
Spaghetti monster. For once no penalties!

Wrath of Pie: Undiscovered Paradise, Thoughtseize, Durkwood Baloth, Stromkirk Noble Notes: N/A
6-0
I rebuild faster than your clock
12

Silkster: Swamp, Inquisition of Kozilek, Volatile Fault, Bitterblossom Notes: Treasure, whee!
0-6. LD is a problem, moreso if combined with discard T1.

Fourdogs: reclaim, forest, llanowar mentor, Vengeful Pharaoh Notes: N/
6-0. Not sure your deck works so well if your opponent doesn't attack you?

18, no penalties!
18

[FTW]

18, no penalties!
18

Aww rats, forgot to submit on time. I was on Show and Tell + Emrakul too (other cards were different), could have -4ed you!

FTW: 0 pts

[Wrath of Pie]

Wrath of Pie: Undiscovered Paradise, Thoughtseize, Durkwood Baloth, Stromkirk Noble Notes: N/A

GoblinSmashmaster: Lotus Petal, Rite of Flame, Rite of Flame, Empty the Warrens Notes: Goblin smash! - WL
dte: Geier Reach Sanitarium, Saprazzan Skerry, Show and tell, Emrakul, the Aeons Torn Notes: N/A - LL
Silkster: Swamp, Inquisition of Kozilek, Volatile Fault, Bitterblossom Notes: Treasure, whee! - WD - Volatile Fault is a legitimate upgrade on Field of Ruin, and the real Treasure was playing the other good 1-mana discard spell that was legal.
Fourdogs: reclaim, forest, llanowar mentor, Vengeful Pharaoh Notes: N/A[/QUOTE] - DD - Vengeful Pharaoh might be too cute, because you can't really make the 1/1 army that you want to make.

2w3d = 9 points

Way to dodge the duplicate penalties, everyone!

[GoblinSmashmaster]

GoblinSmashmaster Results for Round "No Penalty"

GoblinSmashmaster: Lotus Petal, Rite of Flame, Rite of Flame, Empty the Warrens Notes: Goblin smash!
That's me!

dte: Geier Reach Sanitarium, Saprazzan Skerry, Show and tell, Emrakul, the Aeons Torn Notes: N/A
Annihilate :( 0-6

Wrath of Pie: Undiscovered Paradise, Thoughtseize, Durkwood Baloth, Stromkirk Noble Notes: N/A
Goblin smash! then discard 3-3

Silkster: Swamp, Inquisition of Kozilek, Volatile Fault, Bitterblossom Notes: Treasure, whee!
Goblin smash! then discard 3-3

Fourdogs: reclaim, forest, llanowar mentor, Vengeful Pharaoh Notes: N/A
Goblin smash! then stare 4-1

Total: 10 goblin points!

[FTW]

Fourdogs: reclaim, forest, llanowar mentor, Vengeful Pharaoh Notes: N/A

GoblinSmashmaster: Lotus Petal, Rite of Flame, Rite of Flame, Empty the Warrens Notes: Goblin smash!
LW... Lose the race on the draw, but on the play I can block a turn earlier and if you attack I'll get stuck at 4 life. So you don't attack, but then I get to attack myself and win at 1 life.


GoblinSmashmaster: Lotus Petal, Rite of Flame, Rite of Flame, Empty the Warrens Notes: Goblin smash!

Fourdogs: reclaim, forest, llanowar mentor, Vengeful Pharaoh Notes: N/A
Goblin smash! then stare 4-1

Discrepancy.

Looks like GoblinSmashmaster may be right.

OTP 4dogs blocks fast enough to stabilize. But what if GoblinSmashmaster never attacks? Then 4dogs can only make 3 1/1s. 3 1/1s can't attack past 8 1/1s. Draw?

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

Round Five Scores:
DTE: 18
Silkster: 10 (derived)
Goblinsmashmaster: 10
FourDogs: 9

It's been a week and Silkster didn't submit their scores so I just assumed everyone was correct in their assessment of the MU. Which is good for me, because I did NOT want to do the math on Bitterblossom!
And it's banned now!

But

THE FINAL ROUND IS UPON US!

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

The deadline for THE FINAL ROUND is 1 april.
That's monday, so no OTJ cards. I know you wanted them but they all suck so there.

[Wrath of Pie]

The deadline for THE FINAL ROUND is 2 april.
That's monday, so no OTJ cards. I know you wanted them but they all suck so there.

That's a Tuesday or the worst attempt at an April Fools Joke I've seen in some time.

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

whoops, fixed

[FTW]

OTP 4dogs blocks fast enough to stabilize. But what if GoblinSmashmaster never attacks? Then 4dogs can only make 3 1/1s. 3 1/1s can't attack past 8 1/1s. Draw?

Missed the opportunity to call this 3dogs vs 8gobs

Edit: Wonder what decks we'll see on Monday. Akroan Horse stompy vs Goblin Cannon

[silkster]

Coming in super late!

GoblinSmashmaster: Lotus Petal, Rite of Flame, Rite of Flame, Empty the Warrens Notes: Goblin smash!
WL. I appreciate that goblins do indeed smash.

dte: Geier Reach Sanitarium, Saprazzan Skerry, Show and tell, Emrakul, the Aeons Torn Notes: N/A
I actually think this is WD, not WW. When you're on the play, I need to make you discard S&T, but then you can make me discard a card, which is either the second land or the BB.

Wrath of Pie: Undiscovered Paradise, Thoughtseize, Durkwood Baloth, Stromkirk Noble Notes: N/A
WD looks right. I specifically thought that people would play Thoughtseize, the better discard spell, but since I probably don't care about hitting big spells, what with being able to kill charge lands, I figured Inquisition was pretty safe. You're welcome.

Silkster: Swamp, Inquisition of Kozilek, Volatile Fault, Bitterblossom Notes: Treasure, whee!


Fourdogs: reclaim, forest, llanowar mentor, Vengeful Pharaoh Notes: N/A[/QUOTE]
WW. I don't really need the discard spell, but I hit Reclaim for the sake of it. Then I only attack once I can attack with 10 of them. I can easily spare a few life along the way from attacks before I have a token or to make extra faeries if you attack when I do have faeries.

5W, 2D, 1L, no penalties, for 17 points.

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

Our long national nightmare is over!
After six glorious rounds, things have come to an end and here are the decks for the final round:

Four dogs: Darkslick Shores, Nullhide Ferox, Restore Balance, Currency Converter[cards] Notes: What's left, what's good?
dte: [cards]Peat Bog, Currency Converter, Kozilek, Butcher of Truth, smallpox Notes: it is slow
FTW: Sandstone Needle, Gargadon, Electrodominance, Restore Balance Notes: Not greater or lesser, but just right
Silkster: Darkslick Shores, Cruel Sadist, Sea's Claim, Disrupting Shoal Notes: Shambler, Chrono, and Cenn's were taken
Wrath of Pie: Boseiju, who Endures, Simic Growth Chamber, Oko, Thief of Crowns, Elixir of Immortality Notes: N/A
GoblinSmashmaster: Chancellor of the Tangle, Aether Vial, Broadside Bombardiers, Nullhide Ferox Notes: Vial Goblins!

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

dte: Peat Bog, Currency Converter, Kozilek, Butcher of Truth, smallpox Notes: it is slow
0-2, But I hit on Converter!
FTW: Sandstone Needle, Gargadon, Electrodominance, Restore Balance Notes: Not greater or lesser, but just right
0-2, but I hit on Balance!
Silkster: Darkslick Shores, Cruel Sadist, Sea's Claim, Disrupting Shoal Notes: Shambler, Chrono, and Cenn's were taken
0-2, but I hit on Shores!
Wrath of Pie: Boseiju, who Endures, Simic Growth Chamber, Oko, Thief of Crowns, Elixir of Immortality Notes: N/A
0-2, but... Oko? That's a paddlin!
GoblinSmashmaster: Chancellor of the Tangle, Aether Vial, Broadside Bombardiers, Nullhide Ferox Notes: Vial Goblins![/QUOTE]
0-2 but that's a hit on Ferox!

which means:
https://ih1.redbubble.net/image.5393307903.7169/st,small,507x507-pad,600x600,f8f8f8.u1.jpg
MOON
SHOT
30+1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 points

[dte]

Four dogs: Darkslick Shores, Nullhide Ferox, Restore Balance, Currency Converter[cards] Notes: What's left, what's good?
Is your land correct?
In any case, should be 6-0 for me and -2 penalty.
4

Congrats on the moonshot!!

dte: [cards]Peat Bog, Currency Converter, Kozilek, Butcher of Truth, smallpox Notes: it is slow

FTW: Sandstone Needle, Gargadon, Electrodominance, Restore Balance Notes: Not greater or lesser, but just right
Just right gargadon will eventually die of sickness.
6-0,
10

Silkster: Darkslick Shores, Cruel Sadist, Sea's Claim, Disrupting Shoal Notes: Shambler, Chrono, and Cenn's were taken
0-6, the sea floods the bog.
10

Wrath of Pie: Boseiju, who Endures, Simic Growth Chamber, Oko, Thief of Crowns, Elixir of Immortality Notes: N/A
smallpox beats bounceland, 6-0
16

GoblinSmashmaster: Chancellor of the Tangle, Aether Vial, Broadside Bombardiers, Nullhide Ferox Notes: Vial Goblins!
Not sure, maybe 3-3? or 0-6, quite complicated maths ahead. I will not be able to calculate that soon.
16-22

[FTW]

GoblinSmashmaster: Chancellor of the Tangle, Aether Vial, Broadside Bombardiers, Nullhide Ferox Notes: Vial Goblins!
Not sure, maybe 3-3? or 0-6, quite complicated maths ahead. I will not be able to calculate that soon.
16-22

Hmm tough math. Maybe the Goblins smash? Nullhide Ferox is a big problem due to slow clock to reset.

You have a few major decision points.
A) Smallpox proactively, or wait till first attacker

B) Make 2/2 zombie right away after Pox
(library order = kozilek, pox, Bog)
or wait to make zombie after drawing land 1 turn sooner (library order = pox, bog.. then put Kozilek in GY)

C) draw/discard with Converter instead of casting Pox, to make zombies proactively
(library order = Kozilek, bog)

D) Try to block Broadside with 2 2/2s instead of Poxing it (but it can fling Vial to kill 1 before blockers)


Dte vs Goblins OTP
T1 tapped bog / Vial
T2 converter / 1c

This is your first decision point

A) Smallpox fast
T3 Pox, exile Kozilek to converter, Nullhide enters
Library = Pox, Bog (keep Koz in exile)
/ 2c & Nullhide attacks for 6 [dte=13]
T4 draw Pox / 3c hasty goblin, attack for 8 [dte=5]
T5 tapped Bog, make 2/2 blocker / attack for 8 & fling Vial to kill 2/2 -> Goblin smashes

So Poxing first is bad

B) hold Pox for Broadside
T3 pass / 2c
T4 pass / 3c
T5 pass / hasty Broadside, 4c, attack for 2 [dte=18]
T6 Pox, Broadside dies, exile Kozilek, Ferox enters [dte=17] /
5c attack 6 [dte=11]
T7 draw Pox / 6c attack 6 [dte=5]
T8 tapped Bog, make 2/2 / 7c attack 6, zombie blocks, Chancellor!
T9 draw Koz, Pox, exile Koz & make 2/2 now, Ferox dies / attack 6, zombie blocks
T10 draw Pox / attack 6 [dte = -2]

Waiting to Pox is still too slow

C) Aggro zombies
T3 loot Kozilek (exile) / 2c
T4 draw tapped Bog, make 2/2 / 3c hasty Broadside [dte=18]
T5 loot Koz / 4c attack 2 again [dte=16]
T6 make 2nd 2/2 to double block the Menace, draw Koz /
EOT Ferox, attack 8, fling Vial at a zombie, other blocks Ferox [dte = 14]
T7 Smallpox, broadside dies / Ferox attacks [dte = 7]
T8 draw Pox / Ferox attacks [dte = 1]
T9 tapped Bog, make 2/2 / Ferox attacks, chump
T10 Smallpox is suicidal & can't make 1 zombie per turn

LL 0-6?

[FTW]

FTW: Sandstone Needle, Gargadon, Electrodominance, Restore Balance Notes: Not greater or lesser, but just right

Four dogs: Darkslick Shores, Nullhide Ferox, Restore Balance, Currency Converter
If I Balance, I lose to Ferox + 2/2 token! But if I don't Gargadon wins. WW 6-0

dte: Peat Bog, Currency Converter, Kozilek, Butcher of Truth, smallpox
You can recover from Balance and Pox my Gargadon. LL 0-6

Silkster: Darkslick Shores, Cruel Sadist, Sea's Claim, Disrupting Shoal
I dodge Shoal but can't beat Sea's Claim LL 0-6

Wrath of Pie: Boseiju, who Endures, Simic Growth Chamber, Oko, Thief of Crowns, Elixir of Immortality
OTP suspend Gargadon, then T3 Balance with 0 lands & 0 cards while you're tapped out of Elixir activation

OTD you get T3 before mine, so you get Oko.
I could
A) Balance when you tap out for Oko (can't Elixir to recover), but Oko will have 2 elks just fast enough to block T6 hasty Gargadon

B) wait to Balance just before Gargadon resolves, killing all Elk, but you can respond with Elixir:
Library = {elixir, simic, boseiju}
T6 hasty Gargadon will -7 Oko. The highest Oko could be is 12 if you made Food and no Elk. Oko @ 5
T7 Elk Gargadon, Oko @ 2
T8 Elk a Food and block, Oko wins

C) T2 Balance with 1 land & 1 card in hand before you cast Oko. You must discard either Boseiju or Oko, but you have Simic + Elixir out so you can get back all cards before Gargadon hits.
WL 3-3


GoblinSmashmaster: Chancellor of the Tangle, Aether Vial, Broadside Bombardiers, Nullhide Ferox
T2 suspend 4
T4 you Vial Broadside
T6 Balance kills Broadside & discards Chancellor, but you get a 6/6 and I get a 7/5
They stare.
DD 2-2

3 wins, 2 draws = 11 pts - 2 = 9 pts

[Wrath of Pie]

Wrath of Pie: Boseiju, who Endures, Simic Growth Chamber, Oko, Thief of Crowns, Elixir of Immortality Notes: N/A

Four dogs: Darkslick Shores, Nullhide Ferox, Restore Balance, Currency Converter[cards] Notes: What's left, what's good? - WW - That's one way to shoot the moon.
dte: [cards]Peat Bog, Currency Converter, Kozilek, Butcher of Truth, smallpox Notes: it is slow - LL - You just make Rogues with Currency Converter and never cast Smallpox so I can't play lands.
FTW: Sandstone Needle, Gargadon, Electrodominance, Restore Balance Notes: Not greater or lesser, but just right - WL
Silkster: Darkslick Shores, Cruel Sadist, Sea's Claim, Disrupting Shoal Notes: Shambler, Chrono, and Cenn's were taken - LL
GoblinSmashmaster: Chancellor of the Tangle, Aether Vial, Broadside Bombardiers, Nullhide Ferox Notes: Vial Goblins! - WW

5w = 15 points

[GoblinSmashmaster]

GoblinSmashmaster Results for Round "Shoot the Moon!"

Four dogs: Darkslick Shores, Nullhide Ferox, Restore Balance, Currency Converter[cards] Notes: What's left, what's good?
Goblin smash :( 6-0
-2

dte: [cards]Peat Bog, Currency Converter, Kozilek, Butcher of Truth, smallpox Notes: it is slow
Goblin smash! 6-0

FTW: Sandstone Needle, Gargadon, Electrodominance, Restore Balance Notes: Not greater or lesser, but just right
Goblin stare 2-2

Silkster: Darkslick Shores, Cruel Sadist, Sea's Claim, Disrupting Shoal Notes: Shambler, Chrono, and Cenn's were taken
Cruelly disrupted :( 0-6

Wrath of Pie: Boseiju, who Endures, Simic Growth Chamber, Oko, Thief of Crowns, Elixir of Immortality Notes: N/A
Elked :( 0-6

GoblinSmashmaster: Chancellor of the Tangle, Aether Vial, Broadside Bombardiers, Nullhide Ferox Notes: Vial Goblins!
Still on Goblins!

Total: 10 points

[FTW]

Congrats 4dogs on the win! Thanks for running this season.

Congrats to dte for 2nd place.

Since there was still interest in 4CB the last few rounds and so many of you have done the work of running a season, I'm happy to organize the next season if there's still interest in playing.

[Asthereal]

Hey guys, my apologies for stepping out. Life got in the way and I just couldn't spend the time I needed to properly compete. And if I'm dead last every round, there's no point, really. That's not fun.

Hopefully life will be a bit less busy when FTW's season starts. :tongue:

[silkster]

Silkster: Darkslick Shores, Cruel Sadist, Sea's Claim, Disrupting Shoal Notes: Shambler, Chrono, and Cenn's were taken
Ideally, Sea's Claim catches decks trying for spells with mv>1 and Shoal catches decks trying for spells with mv=1.

Four dogs: Darkslick Shores, Nullhide Ferox, Restore Balance, Currency Converter[cards] Notes: What's left, what's good?
My Darkslick Shores! (Sadist doing work.)

dte: [cards]Peat Bog, Currency Converter, Kozilek, Butcher of Truth, smallpox Notes: it is slow
Sea's Claim doing work.

FTW: Sandstone Needle, Gargadon, Electrodominance, Restore Balance Notes: Not greater or lesser, but just right
Sea's Claim doing work.

Wrath of Pie: Boseiju, who Endures, Simic Growth Chamber, Oko, Thief of Crowns, Elixir of Immortality Notes: N/A
Sea's Claim doing work, also the fact that Sadist can hit for >5 damage every 2 turns.

GoblinSmashmaster: Chancellor of the Tangle, Aether Vial, Broadside Bombardiers, Nullhide Ferox Notes: Vial Goblins!
Disrupting Shoal doing work.

10W, 1 penalty card = 28 points.


Hmm tough math. Maybe the Goblins smash? Nullhide Ferox is a big problem due to slow clock to reset.


I might be missing something, but Nullhide has a replacement effect, not a trigger, and the order of actions on Smallpox is to discard and then sacrifice a creature, so I think Smallpox hits the Ferox twice.

I also have a season pretty much ready to go, but I'm excited to see what FTW has in mind.

[FTW]

You might be right about Smallpox vs Nullhide. But neither dte or GoblinSmashmaster have commented on it yet.


I also have a season pretty much ready to go, but I'm excited to see what FTW has in mind.

I was offering to take a turn doing the work, but if you already have a season ready to go, feel free to do this one!

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

They are, I lost last time because of it

[silkster]

Hey everyone!

I messaged FTW and the result is that I will be hosting the next season. I'll be posting all the details in a day or two. For now:

1) Do people have a preferred deadline?

2) Every week, or every other week?

[Wrath of Pie]

1) We're bad at deadlines, I don't think it particularly matters when said deadline is.

2) I miss it being every week.

3) Have we resolved non-traditional Magic cards yet? Because we really should take the initiative in doing so.

[FTW]

I'm fine with every week too. Easier to remember.


3) Have we resolved non-traditional Magic cards yet? Because we really should take the initiative in doing so.

Need ruling on this deck:
Blacker Lotus, White Plume Adventurer, Solitude, Shahrazad

[silkster]

3) Have we resolved non-traditional Magic cards yet? Because we really should take the initiative in doing so.

Do you mean things like: Alchemy and Unfinity?
My intention is to make legality: paper vintage minus Unfinity and no restricted list. (You will be able to play multiple black lotuses every week if you so desire.)

Now that you mention it, I remember that I do find the weekly schedule easier to remember.

[Wrath of Pie]

Do you mean things like: Alchemy and Unfinity?
My intention is to make legality: paper vintage minus Unfinity and no restricted list. (You will be able to play multiple black lotuses every week if you so desire.)
Dungeons are relevant, because they are technically non-traditional Magic cards brought in from outside the game according to the Comp Rules (FTW gave it away with White Plume Adventurer, if you missed his joke), so it falls under the same status as Wishes in that they are technically non-functional (so White Plume Adventurer is a vanilla 3/3).

The question is whether or not dungeon cards should be functional.

Stickers actually would function oddly enough due to them being sticker sheets and not actual cards, and there is not enough upside to make them not annoying, so not bothering with the mechanic is a good decision.

[FTW]

Do you mean things like: Alchemy and Unfinity?

Dungeons. Un-sets. Cards normally on the banlist. I took the initiative to cover multiple bases at once.


My intention is to make legality: paper vintage minus Unfinity and no restricted list. (You will be able to play multiple black lotuses every week if you so desire.)

Does that mean Shahrazad is legal? How does it resolve in this format? Library size is 0, so both players start the subgame with 0 cards. Neither player can lose, so the subgame never ends. Auto-draw?

[dte]

A set day and time, every week the same is easier on .e. I don't really care when, but it's great if we can submit early, like with 4dogs' system.

[silkster]

Hey everyone, sorry for the delay. I have most things decided, but I need to make one last decision. This season will be complicated enough, so I'm just going to make the simplest decision:

General legality: paper vintage, thus excluding Alchemy and other online-only cards.
Additional Bans: Unfinity, Shahrazad, dungeons.

If there are other potential issues, I say we just ban them for simplicity and so that everyone is on the same page. Post is coming up tonight or tomorrow night.

The weekly structure suggestion is well received. :)

[FTW]

General legality: paper vintage, thus excluding Alchemy and other online-only cards.
Additional Bans: Unfinity, Shahrazad, dungeons.

With these rulings, I recommend we keep the Vintage Banned list even if we remove the Restricted list.
That means no Ante cards, Dexterity cards, or subgame cards. Chaos Orb would be dumb to resolve.

[Wrath of Pie]

With these rulings, I recommend we keep the Vintage Banned list even if we remove the Restricted list.
That means no Ante cards, Dexterity cards, or subgame cards. Chaos Orb would be dumb to resolve.
You know it's bad when even Old School Magic agrees on how dumb Chaos Orb is to resolve.

[silkster]

New season is up: https://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?33800-4-Card-Blind-The-Silkster-Seasons&p=1106948&viewfull=1#post1106948

I exercised my self-appointed dictator powers and declared all the things. The first round isn't really a round and doesn't count for score, but will determine the starting configuration for round 1. It's also an opportunity for changes to the format if anyone has suggestions.