[OTJ] Outlaws of Thunder Junction - because Hearthstone and Magic just mirror themes

[morgan_coke]

Official Link: https://magic.wizards.com/en/products/outlaws-of-thunder-junction?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Magic_ALL_PRD_Traffic_NA_US_CA_EN_OTJ_Search&utm_term=otj-enf-search&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjwhtWvBhD9ARIsAOP0GogRdlq68a1nl95tMMMSI-_dZLFzE2-ZxMhh-lKI9T803r2NbH-BmLgaAh5hEALw_wcB

Old West/Outlaw themes, Releases April 19th.

Previews start March 26th.

There's a new Oko, doesn't turn anything into an Elk, a Sword of Protection from Instants and Sorcery's that makes treasures and double casts spells if you connect, multicolor split cards - Crime//Punishment returns, some new art for Thoughtseize, a bunch of mechanics around crime that link to MKM.

EDIT: there are also Land - Deserts that produce multiple colors of mana, ETB tapped, and damage the opponent. Removing images because they're giant. Bunch of spoilers online already of cards if you want to look for them.

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

There's been some leaks too.
There's also symbols with this set:
OTJ, main set, symbol is a hat
BIG, Oko's big score, symbol is a vault door. It was supposed to be an aftermath set afterwards but MAT did so bad they scraped it and just rolled the cards into the main set
Breaking News, symbol is a jail door, is the bonus sheet and looks like news paper. All reprints.
The final symbol is the commander

[FTW]

I'm surprised by Sword of Wealth and Power. Thought Hasbro was hoarding that for themselves.

[Barook]

I wonder how potent the "commit a crime" is going to be. Mech summary:


Whenever you cast a spell or activate an ability that targets an opponent, or their stuff (spells, permanents, hand, library or graveyard) you are committing a crime.

The new Sword is one of the more interesting ones. Makes your creature immune to many common removal, although the introduction of the pitch elementals and Leyline Binding make that less relevant.

Magebane Lizard also looks interesting:

Magebane Lizard :1::r:
Creature - Lizard
Whenever a player casts a noncreature spell, ~ deals damage to that player equal to the number of noncreature spells they've cast this turn.
1/4

[FTW]

I wonder how potent the "commit a crime" is going to be. Mech summary:

So you can kill something/discard opponent/Bolt them and then +Oko. Seems good in non-Beans 4c piles, but awkward with Beans (doesn't trigger with Solitude or Leyline Binding or Fury).

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

As people keep saying:
Edh has made interaction a crime

[Cire]

Fblthp, Lost on the Range 1UU
Legendary Creature - Homunculus
Ward 2
You may look at the top card of your library any time.
The top card of your library has plot. The plot cost is equal to its mana cost.
You may plot nonland cards from the top of your library.
1/1

How does this work with modal DFCs? Any chance of abuse?

(i.e. can you cast this, then next round play worldly tutor for Valki and pay 1B to cast Tibalt, Cosmic Impostor?)

[Wrath of Pie]

Fblthp, Lost on the Range 1UU
Legendary Creature - Homunculus
Ward 2
You may look at the top card of your library any time.
The top card of your library has plot. The plot cost is equal to its mana cost.
You may plot nonland cards from the top of your library.
1/1

How does this work with modal DFCs? Any chance of abuse?

(i.e. can you cast this, then next round play worldly tutor for Valki and pay 1B to cast Tibalt, Cosmic Impostor?)

I think the whole DFC loophole was fixed with the cascade update, so it's probably the same answer here. (So no.)

[PirateKing]

Yeah, without getting the official rules from the release documents there is no way to be sure. I suspect they will copy and paste the same language from other "cast-this-spell" wording that will reference the card you can cast is the one who's mana was paid for with the Plot mechanic. So if you paid 1B, you get Valki, God of Lies and no other options.

But who know? Maybe they won't :D

[Cire]

Yeah, without getting the official rules from the release documents there is no way to be sure. I suspect they will copy and paste the same language from other "cast-this-spell" wording that will reference the card you can cast is the one who's mana was paid for with the Plot mechanic. So if you paid 1B, you get Valki, God of Lies and no other options.

But who know? Maybe they won't :D

TBH, I'm not sure that's even that broken of a play - but yeah, would be good to know if it works or not.

[Barook]

http://mythicspoiler.com/otj/cards/fortuneloyalsteed.jpghttp://mythicspoiler.com/otj/cards/insatiableavarice.jpg

Avarice seems kinda interesting. It can be a tutor, card draw, both or even a burn spell (which gets quite dumb with Bowmasters in play).

[PirateKing]

Insatiable Avarice would have been good if Ad Nauseam hadn't been supplanted by Beseech into Gaea's Will. Hits only for 1 on flip but either option is live off Dark Ritual.
Storm lists are already so narrowly tuned, not sure this can float to the top of what has already been printed.

Saddle is like Crew, right? Saddle 1 is minimum power 1 but you can Saddle with an Atraxa if you wanted?

[Zoid]

Saddle is like Crew, right? Saddle 1 is minimum power 1 but you can Saddle with an Atraxa if you wanted?

From what I understand, yes.

https://mythicspoiler.com/otj/cards/magdathehoardmaster.jpg

Now we also know what a crime is which is something you will probably forget to track.

https://mythicspoiler.com/otj/cards/kellanthekid.jpg

This guy seems to have potential in the right shell.

In general this set has lots of "alternate universe"/fan fiction kind of vibes.
Could be a filler episode of One Piece or something.

[PirateKing]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/806638836170883133/1222194767090159676/image-31.png?ex=66155493&is=6602df93&hm=f4e06e4360a2be92d2f68563b11c34c4eb37e3061bc12f26b8b28ff3bcd4b86c&

So some notes:

Timing restrictions cover only your turns, if you cast Violent Outburst on your opponent's turn 1 and flip this, it's okay to cast.
Plot would let you cast a card with no mana cost like Crashing Footfalls or Ancestral Vision. Only rules are it is cast at Sorcery speed and not the turn you plotted.

Could see a spot in some weirdo deck I think

[morgan_coke]

So some notes:

Timing restrictions cover only your turns, if you cast Violent Outburst on your opponent's turn 1 and flip this, it's okay to cast.
Plot would let you cast a card with no mana cost like Crashing Footfalls or Ancestral Vision. Only rules are it is cast at Sorcery speed and not the turn you plotted.

Could see a spot in some weirdo deck I think

I think the plot mechanic and the no cost spells are going to break some shit in the fun way.

Best spells to plot wiht this guy are Profane Tutor (demonic tutor) Ancestral Vision, Gaea's Will (yawgmoth's will) Glimpse of Tomorrow (warp world nonsense) Hypergenesis, Inevitable Betrayal (bribery), Living End, Lotus Bloom, Mox Tantalite, Restore Belief, Restore Balance, Sol Talisman, and Wheel of Fate

You've basically got access to all the most broken cards in MTG history. Jace, Fblthp, and Collected Conjuring could pretty easily foundation some obscenely broken decks. I mean, just suspend a bunch of stuff then mind twist wtih a plotted balance and you've got a huge advantage

Worth noting you can also just plot stuff like Counterspell and have a free one sitting there

[Barook]

Considering how many characters from other planes show up, this set looks like a clusterfuck.


https://mythicspoiler.com/otj/cards/kellanthekid.jpg

This guy seems to have potential in the right shell.
Retrace spells come into mind, for example.


Worth noting you can also just plot stuff like Counterspell and have a free one sitting there


Plot [cost] (You may pay [cost] and exile this card from your hand. Cast it as a sorcery on a later turn without paying its mana cost. Plot only as a sorcery.)
I don't think sorcery-speed countermagic is doing any good.

[Zoid]

I think the plot mechanic and the no cost spells are going to break some shit in the fun way.

Best spells to plot wiht this guy are Profane Tutor (demonic tutor) Ancestral Vision, Gaea's Will (yawgmoth's will) Glimpse of Tomorrow (warp world nonsense) Hypergenesis, Inevitable Betrayal (bribery), Living End, Lotus Bloom, Mox Tantalite, Restore Belief, Restore Balance, Sol Talisman, and Wheel of Fate

You've basically got access to all the most broken cards in MTG history. Jace, Fblthp, and Collected Conjuring could pretty easily foundation some obscenely broken decks. I mean, just suspend a bunch of stuff then mind twist wtih a plotted balance and you've got a huge advantage

Worth noting you can also just plot stuff like Counterspell and have a free one sitting there

You can already cast them with As Foretold.
Made a Modern deck with that and a bunch of Time Walk effects a few years ago which was janky but fun as hell.
Suspend Greater Gargadon into Restore Balance is fun.


Retrace spells come into mind, for example.
On the same note:
Kellan + Raven's Crime into previously mentioned non-cost cards.

[Barook]

On the same note:
Kellan + Raven's Crime into previously mentioned non-cost cards.
Kellan can only cast permanent spells, so Raven's Crime would have limited use - Lotus Bloom would probably the best one out of the permanent ones. But since the lands come into play untapped, I guess you can ramp a whole bunch with Loam shenanigans for what it's worth.

http://mythicspoiler.com/otj/cards/lavaspurboots.jpg

This hasn't been discussed yet, but this looks like a potential Saga target. Assuming you have the mana for it on later turns, you can activate Saga for the second token, fetch Boots, equip Boots, swing with both tokens. That can change the math quite a bit, depending on the situation.

Edit:
http://mythicspoiler.com/otj/cards/satorutheinfiltrator.jpg

It can trigger from both Ornithopther and Ninjutsu cards. Ninjas has fallen out of favor, but still a cool card. Not on-color for Cheerios, sadly.

[PirateKing]

Unfortunately Satoru also triggers off Evoke'd Grief & Reanimate'd Grief, so no point in being cute when you could just do the thing that's already good, but now better.

[Barook]

Unfortunately Satoru also triggers off Evoke'd Grief & Reanimate'd Grief, so no point in being cute when you could just do the thing that's already good, but now better.
Good point.

What's worth pointing out is that Satoru also works very well with Norin the Wary. Each time Norin returns, you get a card. Throw both into a Vial Humans shell and you have a serious draw engine as early as T2. Norin also grows your Champions/Lieutenants and Vial'd in creatures further fuel Satoru. So there's some synergy going on even outside the combo.

Edit: Satou also triggers from Narcos, Ichorids, Poxwalkers and Dread Return. Especially Narcos could keep a dredge chain going, which is kinda gross.

[Zoid]

Good point.

What's worth pointing out is that Satoru also works very well with Norin the Wary. Each time Norin returns, you get a card. Throw both into a Vial Humans shell and you have a serious draw engine as early as T2. Norin also grows your Champions/Lieutenants and Vial'd in creatures further fuel Satoru. So there's some synergy going on even outside the combo.

Edit: Satou also triggers from Narcos, Ichorids, Poxwalkers and Dread Return. Especially Narcos could keep a dredge chain going, which is kinda gross.

Downside being having to play Norrin who does jack shit on his own.

While the use for dredge is true and I'll admit that it has been a while since I played that, but when you can reliably reanimate something, you have already won anyways or could just get something better.
All the draw more stuff to dredge more reanimation targets have been gone since about 14 years ago.
Casting him on 2 mana is also nothing you'd want to do.

[morgan_coke]

First shot at a Jace deck:

Planeswalkers - 8
4x Jace Reawakened
4x Liliana of the Veil

Enchantments - 3
3x As Foretold

Sorceries - 16
4x Thoughtseize
4x Profane Tutor
4x Ancestral Vision
4x Restore Balance

Instants - 8
4x Brainstorm
4x Force of Will

Artifacts - 7
4x The Rack
3x Mox Tantalite

Lands - 21
4x Polluted Delta
4x Prismatic Vista
4x Underground Sea
4x Wasteland
3x Island
2x Swamp

Kind of a redo of the old MRB - Maysonet Rack Balance deck. Your goal is to empty hands and keep board clear of creatures, Wasteland stops manlands. Only real issue I see is that outside of "the Rack" there aren't any wincons. Might need different planeswalkers or something. Just a starting point. The Profane Tutors really seem like they're what takes this deck to the next level. Black has enough direct damange now that you could run some of that in here as well to use the Jace ultimate multicast.

[Zoid]

https://mythicspoiler.com/otj/cards/bovineintervention.jpghttps://mythicspoiler.com/otj/cards/holycow.jpg

This would have been funny a decade ago but with everything being so jokey it comes of as stupid.

[Zoid]

https://mythicspoiler.com/otj/cards/highnoon.jpg

2 mana but coming with an inbuilt Lava Axe is kinda neato.

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

https://mythicspoiler.com/otj/cards/highnoon.jpg

2 mana but coming with an inbuilt Lava Axe is kinda neato.

2 mana is about what these effects cost, right?

[Reeplcheep]

Tinybones Joins Up
{B}
Legendary Enchantment
When Tinybones Joins Up enters the battlefield, any number of target players each discard a card.
Whenever a legendary creature enters the battlefield under your control, any number of target players each mill a card and lose 1 life.
It was going to be the greatest heist of his unlife.

More functional copies of Unending Nightmare means a shrieking affliction version of bumbleberry pie is feasible.

[morgan_coke]

Tinybones Joins Up
{B}
Legendary Enchantment
When Tinybones Joins Up enters the battlefield, any number of target players each discard a card.
Whenever a legendary creature enters the battlefield under your control, any number of target players each mill a card and lose 1 life.
It was going to be the greatest heist of his unlife.

More functional copies of Unending Nightmare means a shrieking affliction version of bumbleberry pie is feasible.

Thats just another Norin the Wary finisher, right?

[PirateKing]

https://mythicspoiler.com/otj/cards/aveninterrupter.jpg

What about this? I'm not the Death and Taxes guy so I'm not sure.

I see modes as:
a) Counter target opponent's spell for 1 turn, tax them on the way back
b) Counter their counterspell on your spell, you have to wait a turn to play your spell again
c) Flash 2/2 flyer that punishes Rhinos or Emry or Gaea's Will

[Barook]

b) Counter their counterspell on your spell, you have to wait a turn to play your spell again
If you counter their counter, it's gone. Sorcery-speed counters are useless.

It's an interesting card, but the double white probably kills it since D&T isn't really good right now. Should have been :2::w:, so at least Stompy could have had fun with it.

[Zoid]

2 mana is about what these effects cost, right?

Which is why Deafening Silence is the only one of these effects seeing play.

[PirateKing]

If you counter their counter, it's gone. Sorcery-speed counters are useless.

I guess countering their counterspell is the the same thing, I meant more edge case stuff like exiling your own Terminus if they play Flusterstorm, or exiling your own Painter's Servant if they play Dress Down in response. There are sure to be cases where it would be advantaged for your spell to wait a moment and resolve in better circumstances than to simply table their spell for a turn.

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

Which is why Deafening Silence is the only one of these effects seeing play.

and has a huge hole in it preventing it from being all that good

[Zoid]

and has a huge hole in it preventing it from being all that good

True but most hate you can't slam T1 is not that helpful vs combo.

https://mythicspoiler.com/otj/cards/loanshark.jpg

This set, I swear...

[Barook]

https://mythicspoiler.com/otj/cards/loanshark.jpg

This set, I swear...
http://mythicspoiler.com/otj/cards/resilientroadrunner.jpg

I wonder if we got Coyotes (over dogs) as creature type, just for this card.

[Zoid]

http://mythicspoiler.com/otj/cards/resilientroadrunner.jpg

I wonder if we got Coyotes (over dogs) as creature type, just for this card.

https://mythicspoiler.com/otj/cards/craftycoyote.jpg


Crafty Coyote
1R
Creature - Coyote
When this enters the battlefield target creature you control gets +1/+1 and haste until end of turn.

Plot 1R

[FTW]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/806638836170883133/1222194767090159676/image-31.png?ex=66155493&is=6602df93&hm=f4e06e4360a2be92d2f68563b11c34c4eb37e3061bc12f26b8b28ff3bcd4b86c&

So some notes:

Timing restrictions cover only your turns, if you cast Violent Outburst on your opponent's turn 1 and flip this, it's okay to cast.
Plot would let you cast a card with no mana cost like Crashing Footfalls or Ancestral Vision. Only rules are it is cast at Sorcery speed and not the turn you plotted.

Could see a spot in some weirdo deck I think

So you can Standstill, then use Jace to draw cards or Plot a bunch of spells, then cast them for 0 whenever opponent pops Standstill. You could even set up a big turn where you -20 yourself to Orcish Bowmasters.

More realistically, you could play it in Cascade Rhinos or Living End as an alternate enabler / cheaty thing.

[Zoid]

So you can Standstill, then use Jace to draw cards or Plot a bunch of spells, then cast them for 0 whenever opponent pops Standstill. You could even set up a big turn where you -20 yourself to Orcish Bowmasters.

More realistically, you could play it in Cascade Rhinos or Living End as an alternate enabler / cheaty thing.

He costs 2 so you can cascade into him instead of your 0cmc cards and cockblock yourself.
You can't even cascade into him in YOUR first turns so you have to rely on instant cascaders.
This guy needs a different shell.

[Zoid]

https://mythicspoiler.com/otj/cards/craftycoyote.jpg

https://mythicspoiler.com/otj/cards/shootthesheriff.jpg

:mad:

[Barook]

Between all the meme cards and random characters from different planes that make no fucking sense, this feels more like an Un-Set than anything. I don't know why waited so long to do a Cowboy set, only to ruin the setting by throwing all that shit into it.

On a different note:
I'm surprised this one hasn't been mentioned yet.

https://mythicspoiler.com/otj/cards/slickshotshowoff.jpg

[PirateKing]

On a different note:
I'm surprised this one hasn't been mentioned yet.


What's the shell? Does this do a better job than Sprite Dragon?
I saw it and felt nostalgia for a Legacy long ago when this would have been the darling of a strategy, but couldn't place it in anything other that decks already established as tier 3-4 and this card doesn't improve the standing much.

[Wrath of Pie]

https://mythicspoiler.com/otj/cards/shootthesheriff.jpg
Magic Players Successfully Trolled for 30th Consecutive Year

[Zoid]

Magic Players Successfully Trolled for 30th Consecutive Year

https://mythicspoiler.com/otj/cards/geralfthefleshwright.jpg

Now we have Geralf the Fleshlight, the worse young pyromancer or monastery master.


1WB
Legendary Creature - Human Advisor
Whenever one or more tokens enter the battlefield under an opponent's control, you may create a tapped copy of each of those tokens. This ability triggers only once each turn.

Whenever one or more tokens enter the battlefield under your control, each opponent loses 1 life and you gain 1 life.
Not really good but a nice middle finger to avatars.

[dte]

https://mythicspoiler.com/otj/cards/geralfthefleshwright.jpg

Now we have Geralf the Fleshlight, the worse young pyromancer or monastery master.

Disagree, it is the first one that works for creature spells.
Young pyro and monastery mentor are creatures that ask you to build with as little creatures as possible, this is definitely different.
In green, it may have been playable. In a blue artifact shell, I am not sure it is much worse than Sai, Master Thopterist, which sees play.
This one may never see competitive play, but it is something new.

[Barook]

http://mythicspoiler.com/otj/cards/assimilationaegis.jpg

Fetchable removal for Stoneforge. Should be playable as a tutor target. Bonus points for pitching to both FoW and Solitude.

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

Disagree, it is the first one that works for creature spells.
Young pyro and monastery mentor are creatures that ask you to build with as little creatures as possible, this is definitely different.
In green, it may have been playable. In a blue artifact shell, I am not sure it is much worse than Sai, Master Thopterist, which sees play.
This one may never see competitive play, but it is something new.

Right now, you spend 3 cards to drop emery, and cast 3 baubles.
Geralf makes a 2/2 a 3/3 and a 4/4 if you do that.

[Barook]

http://mythicspoiler.com/otj/cards/pillagethebog.jpg

Not sure how useful this is, but at worst, it's a BG sorcery speed Impulse that gets alot better if you have more lands in play.

[morgan_coke]

http://mythicspoiler.com/otj/cards/pillagethebog.jpg

Not sure how useful this is, but at worst, it's a BG sorcery speed Impulse that gets alot better if you have more lands in play.

I really like how they're experimenting with tutors that benefit fair decks but don't get broken in combo. The Case of the Stashed Skeleton from Markov Manor is another example of this. Everyone misses Vampiric Tutor in Rock.

[FTW]

I love that card for Commander, especially the Plot mode.

In Legacy Impulse already costs 0 (Once Upon A Time). Is it worth paying BG for something that isn't Bowmasters or Beans?

Maverick-type decks have already had access to Eladamri's Call for years and never played it.

[Zoid]

https://mythicspoiler.com/otj/cards/obekasplitterofseconds.jpg
This looks weird enough to do something interesting.

[FTW]

https://mythicspoiler.com/otj/cards/obekasplitterofseconds.jpg
This looks weird enough to do something interesting.

Lol Suspend. Seems broken with Jhoira of the Ghitu in EDH and any +2 equip.

Deal 4 damage to a player -> 4 upkeeps = cast any spells this turn for 2 colorless

In 60-card you could cast Ancestral Vision or Rhinos or Profane Tutor or Lotus Bloom much faster. Might be good in Modern.

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

Four cost, and it has to hit, and I need to have something else?

[Zoid]

https://mythicspoiler.com/otj/cards/hollowmarauder.jpg

Decent value if you can get him out for 1 mana.

[FTW]

What Legacy deck gets 6 creatures in graveyard and doesn't immediately lose them to put an 8/8 trample in play? Looks like another Commander card.

[morgan_coke]

Claim Jumper looks really interesting for Stompy or similar decks. Can summon any plains, not just basic, and gets up to 2 lands total. Plays nicely with any kind of bounce lands, including the new Desert.

[Zoid]

Substitute Synthesizer
2U
Artifact
When Substitute Synthesizer enters the battlefield, scry 2.

Whenever another artifact with mana value 3 or more enters the battlefield under your control, create a 0/0 colorless artifact creature token with 'This creature gets +1/+1 for each artifact you control.

I think this is the better than the fleshlight man.

http://mythicspoiler.com/otj/cards/pestcontrolp2.jpg

But the counter comes with the same delivery.

[FTW]

Is that synthesizer confirmed real?

+1 karnstruct for each Thought Monitor, Kappa Cannoneer, Frogmite, Myr Enforcer, Nettlecyst, Cryptic Coat bounce, etc.

- all per Pest Control/Dress Down

4 Bowman, Pest Control, Plague Engineer... nice run Elves, see you next decade

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

Is that synthesizer confirmed real?

+1 karnstruct for each Thought Monitor, Kappa Cannoneer, Frogmite, Myr Enforcer, Nettlecyst, Cryptic Coat bounce, etc.

- all per Pest Control/Dress Down

4 Bowman, Pest Control, Plague Engineer... nice run Elves, see you next decade
https://twitter.com/kimutaros/status/1775117044633264439?t=MyrUU7eMQCM97eDkWUhvnA&s=19

[Zoid]

https://cards.scryfall.io/large/front/a/a/aaa05ad1-5cda-4edd-b6bf-562ae3e5011a.jpg?1712089292

[Barook]

+1 karnstruct for each Thought Monitor, Kappa Cannoneer, Frogmite, Myr Enforcer, Nettlecyst, Cryptic Coat bounce, etc.
The One Ring also triggers it among format staples.

One thing that is really nice is that it triggers from other copies. Would it be too cute to run some Phyrexian Metamorphs to increase their number in play even further?

[Reeplcheep]

"Greedy Gamble" 3B
Enchantment
When ~ enters the battlefield, you draw three cards, gain 6 life, and create three 2/1 black Bat creature tokens with flying.
At the beginning of your end step, you discard a card, lose 2 life, and sacrifice a creature.
When ~ leaves the battlefield, you discard three cards, lose 6 life, and sacrifice three creatures.

This seems like a crazy good payoff for instant speed flicker but hurts you too much for sorcery speed flicker.

[PirateKing]

I got my playset of Donate, how about you?

[Reeplcheep]

Yah if anyone wants to make trix work in the year of our lord 2024, this could be a great add.

[Cire]

https://media.mtgsalvation.com/attachments/181/541/638477334964415807.jpg

Pretty fun and I think an extremely easy condition to meet. Is it worth the trouble? Probably not.

[Barook]

http://mythicspoiler.com/otj/cards/harvesterofmisery.jpg

This seems alright. Either it's uncounterable pinpoint removal or a fat body with a sweeper attached.

Edit: It also plays well into the Scam angle due to self-discard, although it requires a target for that first.

[PirateKing]

Regarding Collector's Cage, I could see D&T getting 1,2 & 3 power quite easily, but they're not really the deck that would hideaway anything devastating like an Emrakul.
It's an odd middle ground, not sure what a home for it would look like.

[Zoid]

https://mythicspoiler.com/otj/cards/lostjitte.jpg

Entry 123456789 in the list of saga targets.

[FTW]

Regarding Collector's Cage, I could see D&T getting 1,2 & 3 power quite easily, but they're not really the deck that would hideaway anything devastating like an Emrakul.
It's an odd middle ground, not sure what a home for it would look like.

It seems like intentional design to avoid unfair decks using it. Unfair decks can't satisfy the condition. Fair decks can easily but can't do impressive things with Hideaway.

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

Tell that to my friend: bestial menace

[FTW]

Sounds like a fair deck. Or under-fair deck.

Sadly unfair decks can't satisfy the condition.

The new Jitte looks good at helping big Constructs avoid blockers, or helping dorks become better attackers.

[PirateKing]

Only 1 counter on new Jitte kind of kills it for me.

The idea of untapping an Urza's Saga to make more constructs was just satisfied with Pip-Boy 3000 which also is found off Saga, untaps one more land compared to Jitte, doesn't even need to connect to do the thing, and in testing wasn't ever useful enough to warrant it's space in the deck.
So for half price you get a half good Jitte. Which, mind you, has already been essentially pushed out of the format.

A lot of this set has been cards that would have been format staples something like 10 years ago, but as printed in 2023, they're underwhelming.

[Barook]

Only 1 counter on new Jitte kind of kills it for me.

The idea of untapping an Urza's Saga to make more constructs was just satisfied with Pip-Boy 3000 which also is found off Saga, untaps one more land compared to Jitte, doesn't even need to connect to do the thing, and in testing wasn't ever useful enough to warrant it's space in the deck.
Big difference to Pip-Boy is that you can time the new Jitte for ramping. Untapping lands during combat does you little good most of the time (e.g. when untapping a Sol Land + active Urza's Saga), while e.g. tapping and then untapping an Ancient Tomb allows you to make bigger plays in your second main phase.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GKUOgC3XoAA3azn?format=png&name=small

Are there any deck that would pick this up for utility?

[Zoid]

Big difference to Pip-Boy is that you can time the new Jitte for ramping. Untapping lands during combat does you little good most of the time (e.g. when untapping a Sol Land + active Urza's Saga), while e.g. tapping and then untapping an Ancient Tomb allows you to make bigger plays in your second main phase.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GKUOgC3XoAA3azn?format=png&name=small

Are there any deck that would pick this up for utility?

Given that you need to hit with it first, I would think there are better alternatives like the new Greaves.

https://mythicspoiler.com/otj/cards/erisroarofthestorm.jpghttps://mythicspoiler.com/otj/cards/rumbleweed.jpg

Any potential for these?

[PirateKing]

Brainstorm/Ponder, Daze, Force of Will/Lórien Revealed

Making him cost 2RW is pretty easy, not seeing many Force of Negations played outside of 1-ofs in certain lists. Anybody know of CMC 3s & 4s that, you know, don't require 3 & 4 mana to play?

[rufus]

Brainstorm/Ponder, Daze, Force of Will/Lórien Revealed

Making him cost 2RW is pretty easy, not seeing many Force of Negations played outside of 1-ofs in certain lists. Anybody know of CMC 3s & 4s that, you know, don't require 3 & 4 mana to play?

Wear//Tear, Fire/Ice, Rift Bolt, Dismember and Firey Temper come to mind, but it seems like you'd be better off playing Monastery Mentor most of the time.

[Reeplcheep]

The problem with him is that he is substantially worse than murktide and has dissynergy with it.

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

https://mythicspoiler.com/otj/cards/elementaleruption.jpg
A storm payoff that only requires a storm count of like 3.
And if you just make 3 dragons and try again next turn (and fizzle) the prowess might kill the op anyways

[FTW]

Yeah, along the theme of other cards, it's an upgrade for past Legacy (Ethereal Forager, Young Pyromancer, Sprite Dragon) but underpowered for this format.

It's easy enough to enable with DRC (Fire // Ice, Snuff Out, Force of Negation, Mystical Dispute, Dismember have all seen play in Delver), but why not jam the 4th copy of Murktide instead?

UWr and 4c control might have an easier time either paying 2UR or finding the 4th cmc (Force of Negation, Terminus, Supreme Verdict, Wear//Tear, etc) but they could just play Mentor (and don't).

Maybe Rhinos could play it as flying Rhinos 5-8??

[Barook]

http://mythicspoiler.com/otj/cards/cracklingspellslinger.jpg

Any uses for this?

[PirateKing]

Multiple instances of Storm stack, right? Seems like a card for Ruby Storm or whatever the current Birgi deck is.

[FTW]

Seems funny to play right before Galvanic Relay (double draw) or Bonus Round (maybe win-more) or whatever version of Jeska's Will they now play (do you have to choose the same mode for each storm copy)?

Other storm decks probably can't use it because their payoffs are too high cmc to chain after this (except Gaea's Will, but that isn't cast directly). ANT could 8xBrainstorm, which is fun, but at that mana they can just tutor into Ad Naus.

Edit: with Bowmasters/Sheoldred in play, dump ritual mana into Spellslinger then play LED + Echo of Eons as "0-mana draw 35". That might be one of the lowest cmc payoffs (needs 0 mana after Spellslinger) but also the silliest.

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

http://mythicspoiler.com/otj/cards/cracklingspellslinger.jpg

Any uses for this?

Win-more.

[dte]

Win-more.

In legacy, sure.
Within the bloc it should play nicely with the plot mechanic, both to generate the storm and to cast a useful spell after spending 5.

[FourDogsinaHorseSuit]

In legacy, sure.
Within the bloc it should play nicely with the plot mechanic, both to generate the storm and to cast a useful spell after spending 5.

It's a commander card so none of that will happen.

[Barook]

Seems funny to play right before Galvanic Relay (double draw) or Bonus Round (maybe win-more) or whatever version of Jeska's Will they now play (do you have to choose the same mode for each storm copy)?

Other storm decks probably can't use it because their payoffs are too high cmc to chain after this (except Gaea's Will, but that isn't cast directly). ANT could 8xBrainstorm, which is fun, but at that mana they can just tutor into Ad Naus.

Edit: with Bowmasters/Sheoldred in play, dump ritual mana into Spellslinger then play LED + Echo of Eons as "0-mana draw 35". That might be one of the lowest cmc payoffs (needs 0 mana after Spellslinger) but also the silliest.
The easiest payoff would probaby a free Fireblast. You would need only 3 other spells before Crackling Spellslinger to reach lethal damage. You could use Wish to play it from the SB even.

[FTW]

That's interesting and would change the shape of the deck a lot, since you don't need Ruby Medallion to go off and prefer Mountains to Sol Lands.

It may be a hybrid with the Belcher shell... Desperate Ritual, Seething Song/Jeska's Will to ramp to 5, then Fireblast/Wish for Fireblast. Without Spellslinger it still has Galvanic Relay and Wishes into Empty or Tendrils. So it could be a functional shell without Spellslinger than can also Sling into Fireblast at lower storm.

Edit: The problem is Fireblast is a card that isn't great main. In the board it needs 3 CMC Wish to get it (before casting Slinger), either 8 mana that turn or 3 on an earlier turn, so the combo loses efficiency. Or you jam Fireblast mains and risk the bad draws.

Using Burning Wish you could also get Reckless Abandon (lol, doesn't need mountains, sacs Spellslinger) to win at the same storm count and mana, or Chain Lightning to win at slightly higher storm. Chain has the advantage of being a card Storm may actually want in a Wishboard (kills hate-elephant). Reckless Abandon or Fireblast only have value in the 75 as wincons with Spellslinger.

[rufus]

I imagine it's not up to snuff, but this seems like it could work in a spring tide deck:


Lock and Load
2U
Sorcery

Draw a card, then draw a card for each other instant and sorcery spell you’ve cast this turn.

Plot 3U

[Scott]

https://mythicspoiler.com/otj/cards/elementaleruption.jpg
A storm payoff that only requires a storm count of like 3.
And if you just make 3 dragons and try again next turn (and fizzle) the prowess might kill the op anyways

I've been messing around with different ideas, and I brewed this up: https://www.moxfield.com/decks/6cTOltP71kCAQ779P8kZjA

There are other directions you could go in (like Ruby Storm-style, artifacts, etc., or just a Burning Wish target in existing decks) but my favorite concept was having 12 Storm payoffs, without having to counterably tutor for it, kind of like Belcher's Empty plan, enlarged. Except we get to play sol lands.

I submitted it to Tony Scapone as a dono deck, so when the set comes out, he'll stream it on Twitch and we'll get an idea of how good it is. I'll also be testing it on MTGO.

[FTW]

Interesting idea.

9 permanent colored Initial Mana Sources (1 Mountain + 4 MDFC + 4 Mox). 13 including Petal. Feels a little low. You do have 5 sol lands but can't really do anything without red.

Belcher ran more IMS (20-21: Mox, Land Grant + Taiga, Petal, 8 spirit guide) and then more 1 mana starters (8: Rite of Flame & Tinder Wall). So even though it was a 1-2 land deck, it had more gas to get off the ground.

Might be good to cut some Pyretic Rituals for more initial red mana. Pyretic is by far the worst (2cmc +1 mana, so worse than an Initial Mana). You could also consider a couple Sandstone Needle over the 1 City of Traitors.

[morgan_coke]

I've been messing around with different ideas, and I brewed this up: https://www.moxfield.com/decks/6cTOltP71kCAQ779P8kZjA

There are other directions you could go in (like Ruby Storm-style, artifacts, etc., or just a Burning Wish target in existing decks) but my favorite concept was having 12 Storm payoffs, without having to counterably tutor for it, kind of like Belcher's Empty plan, enlarged. Except we get to play sol lands.

I submitted it to Tony Scapone as a dono deck, so when the set comes out, he'll stream it on Twitch and we'll get an idea of how good it is. I'll also be testing it on MTGO.

Why do you not just have 1 or 2 Belchers in there as well? It's less reliable, but it still works. Song of Totentanz It makes an army given enough mana or for R gives your dragons haste and a +1 prowess.

[Scott]

Interesting idea.

9 permanent colored Initial Mana Sources (1 Mountain + 4 MDFC + 4 Mox). 13 including Petal. Feels a little low. You do have 5 sol lands but can't really do anything without red.

Belcher ran more IMS (20-21: Mox, Land Grant + Taiga, Petal, 8 spirit guide) and then more 1 mana starters (8: Rite of Flame & Tinder Wall). So even though it was a 1-2 land deck, it had more gas to get off the ground.

Might be good to cut some Pyretic Rituals for more initial red mana. Pyretic is by far the worst (2cmc +1 mana, so worse than an Initial Mana). You could also consider a couple Sandstone Needle over the 1 City of Traitors.

I appreciate the thoughts on mana and such because it gets to a core matter of importance to this type of deck: the balance between initial mana, bigger mana, payoffs, lands that are amazing as uncounterable rituals but bad to draw in multiples when you want storm spells, and rituals that are amazing for storm count and ramp but need starting mana.

I like your idea to compare the initial red sources to recent Belcher lists (neither deck can do anything without it). My deck has 17 atm: 1 Mountain, 4 MDFC, 4 Mox, 4 Petal, 4 SSG.

This is the Belcher build that's had the most recent success. I would consider it to have ~18.5 initial red sources. It has 4 SSG, 4 Land Grant, 4 Mox, 4 Petal, and 1 Taiga. It has 4 SSG but those are only the initial red source if you also draw Tinder Wall, and the odds of that also being in your remaining 6 cards are 30-something percent, so I'll say it's 1.5 red sources. I think that way of counting the SSG green mana makes sense.
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/5366375

This is another recent Belcher placing. I'd consider it to have ~14 initial red sources: 4 SSG, 3 Mox, 4 Petal, and this time 4 SSG and 4 Turntimber Symbiosis, which I'll apply the same math to, as they're only initial red mana if you also have Tinder Wall.
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/5267605

Things get more complicated with Echo re-draws. They also get more complicated when discussing the starters beyond the initial mana, like Rite of Flame, because I have things like, initial red mana plus sol land into 3-drop, or sol lands into Monolith.

The numbers are definitely not in stone (assuming it's not a doomed 2-3 league idea in the first place), but I'll give some reasons for my current numbers:

In testing, 2-drop rituals are super important for going up the ladder, from initial mana, to 3-drops like Seething Song and Jeska's Will. It's a big reason why I added a couple of Monoliths, in addition to the multi-turn line into Elemental Eruption.

Sandstone is really interesting. Adding it to the considering section on the deck page. I confess that I don't like the idea of it coming into play tapped. I haven't wanted more lands (Cities got trimmed), because you essentially fizzle as you have or Relay into too many lands that can't all be played in the same turn. So then it would be a question of what existing land it replaces. The most likely candidate would have to be City, because I'm not cutting any red lands, but I do like that 5th untapped sol land acceleration. Will have to test it at some point.

It is nice that Needle an uncounterable ritual, and you can just wait a turn like with Monolith, but at least Monolith is always at a minimum mana positive in that turn.


Why do you not just have 1 or 2 Belchers in there as well? It's less reliable, but it still works. Song of Totentanz It makes an army given enough mana or for R gives your dragons haste and a +1 prowess.

Apart from the lower reliability that you mentioned, because of the lands, Belcher quickly got the axe for a few reasons, at least in the conceptual frame that I'm going for: a.) Really focusing on mostly-uncounterable payoffs, unlike Belcher, and Echo and Burning Wish, if you want to group them in there b.) LED doesn't make sense as the build stands c.) In a general sense, mana intensive and susceptible to things like FoN.

[FTW]

Moved reply to other thread to avoid derailing spoiler discussion.