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quicksilver
09-05-2006, 07:19 PM
So here is my report from the mana leak open.

Here is the list I played RGBSA (RGBSABWMF2K6FTW as Gearhart would call it)

1 Anger
4 Birds Of Paradise
4 Eternal Witness
4 Flametongue Kavu
4 Werebear
1 Genesis
1 Indrik Stomphowler
2 Ravenous Baloth
1 Tin Street Hooligan

Enchantments
4 Survival Of The Fittest

Legendary Creatures
1 Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary
1 Squee, Goblin Nabob

Sorceries
4 Burning Wish
3 Cabal Therapy
4 Duress

Basic Lands
6 Forest
1 Mountain

Lands
4 Bayou
2 Bloodstained Mire
4 Taiga
4 Wooded Foothills

Sideboard:
1 Loaming Shaman
3 Mesmeric Fiend
4 Engineered Plague
1 Anarchy
1 Cabal Therapy
1 Chainer's Edict
1 Hull Breach
1 Pyroclasm
1 Regrowth
1 Tsunami


One striking point of this build you may notice is that werebears are taking the place of the llanowar elves/fyndhorn elves. So basically they just produce mana like the elves but are much better late game. With the black splash I didn’t need so many one drops since I had lots, and since the black splash made being in top deck mode worse, these seemed like nice choices. Overall it didn’t really effect things that much.

So here is my report.

First round:

Game 1: My opponent starts out with mountain lackey (which brings out a siege gang next turn). My hand was two forests, 2 duress, bloodstained mire, burning wish, FTK. I was planning on fetching for bayou then duressing turn one and two. However duress is very poor against gobs so I decide to save the fetch for red for the burning wish. I end up fetching for mountain and playing forest, Wish on turn 2, pyroclasm or turn three, FTK on 4, probably a survival showed up in that time but it was fairly close but I win.

Game 2. My first hand was 1 land, nothing castable, I mull to 6, again one land nothing castable, I mull to 5, again one land and nothing castable. I end up keeping this hand cause going down to 4 seems terrible and this hand had a survival at least, I would be ok if I got one more land. He starts with lackey. I do forest go. He lackey’s in siege gang again. I say draw go like 4 times in a row and die. He never does anything else besides lackey siege gang, and I never cast a spell. Only one mana was used the entire game between us.

Game 3, I start with a blind therapy naming lackey, he of course does not have it the one time I can handle it. He plays fanatic. I play land birds and sac for therapy taking out the warchief before he can blow up birds with fanatic. He wastes my bayou and I am stuck on 2 lands for a couple of turns, I draw another birds but that gets fanaticed. He plays the ringleader next into matron and double lackey. I draw a land putting me at three and lay engineered plague. He matrons for a goblin king. Next turn he plays the king and double lackey. I FTK the king. I end up crushing this game cause he creatures are now just too underpowered with the plague out.

1-0

Second Round:

Game 1: I think I am playing the first round again when my opponent starts out with lackey siege-gang. I think I pyroclasm. I get survival out. He matrons for a sharpshooter I think, but I deny him the warchief he had. Then I make a misplay that I saw what was going to happen, and somehow had worked it out in my head that what I was doing was gonna work, but it doesn’t. I play the taiga I had witnessed back last turn, survival for rofellos, play rofellos and in response he wastes my taiga. Now I can’t use rofellos to play the FTK in my hand killing the sharpshooter. He untaps, sharpshooter decimates me and I lose. I should have played the rofellos and then taiga instead of taiga rofellos. I had the game won and I threw it away.

Game 2: I win game two (that should have been the match).

Game three: He starts with lackey, then ringleader, then ringleader before I get to pyroclasm him. Then using vial he goes fanatic, warchief, piledriver and hits for 8 immediately after I wrathed him. I FTK the warchief, then he cycles killing the FTK and plays a warchief and I die. I only get 4 turns even with wrathing him and destroying his creatures and putting out blockers. Of course I never see one of my 4 plagues either game. Out of 4 games with 4 plagues, I only ever see one.

1-1

Third round:

Game 1: This game was savage on my part. I start with a duress. Then werebear which he swords. I therapy him for counterspell and missing, seeing two geese, two bears, meddling mage and needle. I flash back taking the geese. At this point I’m pretty confidant that the cards I’ve showed him should have him utterly confused as to what I am playing and bet he can’t name needle and mage right, so I leave them in his hand. I think I witness back a duress or something and take something else. He ends up playing needle, has no idea what to name so he names wooded foothills since he sees one in my yard, despite the fact I already have 5 mana. I witness back a witness. He then plays the mage on witness which I FTK. I never see survival but I crush him anyways.

Game 2: I can’t resolve a survival, and I don’t remember much but I know I lose this game.

Game 3: He sides the needles back in now that he knows I have survival. I loaming shaman him, and he doesn’t have much. I end up in a position where time has been called already but I am gonna swing in for lethal next turn, and he has to top deck amazingly to stay alive. He top decks brainstorm, he gets swords, kills my mesmeric fiend getting back the mystic enforcer, the brainstorm and swords barely give him threshold back, then he draws the goose he saw with the brainstorm and I can’t swing in and we draw.

1-1-1

Forth round:

Game 1: I start by therapying for FoW and counter spell. I think with my hand being double survival and double witness I can resolve one after taking all the counters out of his hand. I was wrong, he goes infinite with standstill and FoF and draws a billion cards and I can’t even resolve a survival.

Game 2: He sides in meddling mage which is horrible since it shuts down his deeds. I’m on the play so mage can’t even stop survival if I got it in my opening hand. I of course do not and he mages my survival, then mages witness, even though I got one out. Maging the witness is terrible, you much rather name removal, but since I wasn’t expecting mage since they are a horrible choice, I side out FTK with only Wish as my removal. But better luckey than good, after his two mages I proceed to draw 2 or 3 witnesses in a row followed by 2 survivals. I had to use my Loaming shaman and tin street prematurely to prevent mage beats. Of course after I play them he gets both crucible and a proxied nantuko monestary. I hold the fort for quite a while with double werebear. He wastes me every turn leaveing me with 2 lands and 2 bears. I finally top deck genesis, but I little two late. If I could get him out then block the monestary, then I could recur gas every turn (tin street to hit that crucible that’s wrecking me).

1-2-1

So a side event is starting at this time. 4 FoW for first place. So I drop to go to that. It is single elimination with about 40 people.

This is where the tournament report gets interesting so if you read everything up to here, sorry, you just wasted your time, but I’m bored at work so I felt like writing it.

First round (about 40 people):

Almost everyone gets buys to bring the number of people to a power of 2. I got the buy.

Second round (32 people left):

Game 1: This game was the nutz. He’s on the play with forest go. I make fun of him for playing forests, then lay a forest on my turn and say go. He plays forest sylvan library. At this point I’m like ok, he’s obviously a scrub for being in this tournament. But playing mono-green with no pressure, how can I lose. I play survival to his library and say go. He looks at the top 3 and takes them all going to 12. So I’m like wtf, how can I lose, he doesn’t even have pressure and my board position is looking great. I untap play werebear, I’m gona discard anger for squee for rofellos his eot. I’m in a superb position. He goes eot vine dryad. I’m like sure you got it. Stompy that has no clock easy buy. His turn he plays briar shield. I think ok, a little harder to FTK but I still can’t lose. He attacks. Then he pops the shield (easier for me to FTK now). Then plays gather courage. Then play invigorate. What a n00b he let’s me gain 3 life and is hitting me for 10, I still can’t lose. He then plays beserk, ESG beserk take 40. Wait … WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?! I lose how the fuck did that happen you had nothing, you are playing mono green, you can’t combo, how did I lose!

Game 2: I have some discard and I think survival wins the game.

Game 3: he goes first with vine dryad (fyi this was the only creature card he ever played all match) then puts rancor on it. That sucks for me, rancor kicks my ass, especially on a vine dryad. I go bayou therapy for beserk I hit. He beats for 5 with gather courage. That allows my FTK in my hand to be good. I play werebear. He plays rancor beats for 5, I’m at ten facing down a double rancored vine dryad, not so hot for me I need a land. I don’t get it but instead get a survival, not too bad. He plays rancor number 3! Swings for 8 putting me at 3, if he has a bounty of the hunt or a giant growth I was dead but he didn’t. EOT I get anger and pray he cuts me to a land. He does, I fetch to 2, get rofellos and FTK. I pray to god that he doesn’t have gather courage or invigorate in hand (since if he had other pump I would be dead already). He doesn’t the vine dryad dies. I swing for 4 then sac the FTK to therapy naming rancor and take all three. He can’t recover form this point.

Third round (16 people left):

Game 1: I mull down to 5 but have a good hand with a couple lands, b wish survival and creature. He starts with mountain go. I think I do birds. He does mountain go, wtf is this, probably slow goblins. I go survival, EOT he cycles dragon. Oh rifter. I get survival online, he slows me down a lot with slice and dice, and swords my rofellos. I start putting out some large werebears, he star storms for 4. I get him down to 9 and rip the lightning rift out of his hand then he draws humility. I then genesis back anger, he gives me a very funny look. I discard anger for critters and I beat him with 1/1’s till he’s dead. Go-go me for knowing about time stamps and how to give my creatures haste under a humility.

Game 2: He’s feeling a little down since he got everything he needed and I mulled to 5, yet I still crushed him. I again crush him, this time much faster since I start with survival again but make him discard a vengeance, humility, and tin street his crypt before I discard anything good to survival.

Forth Round: (8 people left):

Game 1: He starts with mox city of traitors sea drake. Next turn he does another sea drake. I rip a SoFI and a chalice out of his hand. I destroy one drake, but he draw jitte and a counter for my survival. So I lose that game.

Game 2: I forget what happens, I successfully control him, can’t remember if I got survival or not.

Game 3: See game 2.

Fifth round: (4 people left):

Game 1: I see he’s paying thresh. I cast duress or something and see him with predict as his only cantrip. Well he takes forever to get thresh. I get triple FTK and double witness and run over him with that.

Game 2: Again he gets has very few cantrips. Once he gets thresh I loaming shaman away his yard. We are at a stale mate for a long time where he has a unthreshed bear, and 2 mages, survival and FTK. He still gets very few cantrips. I have survival sitting in hand. The few counters he gets he has to use on like my werebears or something. I resolve a stomphowler hitting nothing, but he is by far the biggest thing out there. Next turn I rip B.Wish for pyroclasm. It resolves hitting a witness of my own and his 2 mages and bear. I resolve the survival in my hand, he dazes, but I had one mana open. Next turn I use the FTK that was sitting in my hand for the survival and that wraps up that game.

Sixth round (two people left):

So I the previous round I see him playing my good friend jesse kreiger. I glance over and as he shuffles I see leylines and lotus petals. Great the Iggy pop mirror over there meaning I had to play it which was a bad match up for me. So I’m going in and try to offer the draw. He at first declines but then his friend says he’s ready to go and accepts. After he’s like this is a terrible match up for you, and I’m like yeah Iggy pop is my worst match up here. He then says, I’m playing red thresh. It was Jesse’s deck I saw him shuffling. But he thinks that the match up is very bad for me, but actually it is a least 50/50, with it getting better for me if the player isn’t great or the build isn’t great (although I think he was actually a pro and he got this far so the match would probably be like 50/50). But he thought it was bad for me because he plays pithing needle naming survival then the rest of my guys cost too much to cast and I can’t win then (despite me 2-0 ing gro last round, he said his 2 extra main board pithing needles will make it much more unfavorable for me than my last round). Not only do I have many ways to handle needle, but also a good number of my other cards can be quite problematic for him, since he can’t remove my baloths and bears, (he said he wouldn’t play his bears to shut down my ftks). And since I doubt he can swing with just geese since I have many blockers, fledgling dragon is his only win condition against me. But regarless we both split and get 2 FoW and a draft set of ravnica block each.


Props:

Me for winning 2 FoW.
Brian for letting us crash at his place.
Calosso for not coming.
That Chinese restaurant in china town Brooklyn for being very good and not as expensive as I thought.
The guys that ran the tournament. Great place and great prize support.
A free tournament for FoW’s.
My car for getting like 40 miles to the gallon.
Team unicorn for providing an infinite stream of homosexual humor.
Whoever it was who promised they would never run another IBA deck.
All the prominent sourcers who showed up.
Mr. Nightmare for top 2ing.
Jack for staying in a different state.
All the Virginians and Rochestarians who came to this.
Cody for top 4ing.
Nantuko shady for scooping Mr. Nightmare in.
I’m sure there are lots more, so if I forgot one, just assume it is here.

Slops:

Delaware for having extremely slow traffic and being the shittiest state in the country.
Tolls, for costing $60 dollars.
Delaware, see above.
Gas for being so expensive.
Delaware, see above.
Me for making that misplay against goblins.
Delaware, see above.
Engineered plague, for never getting drawn.
Delaware, see above.
NYC for having outrageous tolls.
Delaware, see above.
Virginians, for none of us making top 8.
Delaware, see above.
Anwar for saying he’s not coming they trying to come once we already get there.
Delaware, see above.
Ernesto, for making terrible driving conditions and breaking my windshield wiper.
Delaware, see above.
Dave Gearhart for being so full of himself and having so much love for himself and so much hate for everyone else.
Delaware, see above.
URABAHN, for giving us way, way too much knowledge of his sexual desires. (FYI, horses are involved).
Delaware, see above.
Let’s just add a bit of IBA, Calosso, and anyone else that deserves to be on here for no particular reason.

Ewokslayer
09-06-2006, 03:49 PM
I am surprised that you still run 4 FTKs considering the increasing number of decks that they are dead against.

quicksilver
09-06-2006, 03:56 PM
I am surprised that you still run 4 FTKs considering the increasing number of decks that they are dead against.

I guess I am also surprised that threshold still runs 4 StP, considering the number of decks they are dead against. At least FtK can hit a birds once you don't need the mana anymore and swing, or pitch to a survival. Honestly, how are these any more dead than swords to plowshares in the meta?

Ewokslayer
09-06-2006, 04:01 PM
I guess I am also surprised that threshold still runs 4 StP, considering the number of decks they are dead against. At least FtK can hit a birds once you don't need the mana anymore and swing, or pitch to a survival. Honestly, how are these any more dead than swords to plowshares in the meta?

Threshold can control its draw to a much larger degree than this can.
Plus what in the meta has protection from white?

quicksilver
09-06-2006, 04:04 PM
Threshold can control its draw to a much larger degree than this can.
Plus what in the meta has protection from white?

So what you are saying is I should take out an absolute bomb in 80% of my matches because it is only a large beatstick in the bad matches.

Also there is like only one creature played in the format with protection from red, and no good decks play it, and the decks that do have plenty of other nice FtK targets.

Also you are saying that StP is terrible in decks that don't run a lot of deck manipulation because it is dead in too many matches right?

Maybe if the format got to be like 75% decks that had no FTK target, then I might start to think about cutting down on main board FTKs.


FTK is so rediculous in this deck, it is one of the best creatures probably close behind eternal witness. Witness and FtK are what makes this deck so good and able to run well without a survival, if you don't like FTK, then play welder survival or ATS, cause FTK is the core of the deck.

Ewokslayer
09-06-2006, 04:15 PM
At least FtK can hit a birds once you don't need the mana anymore Hitting your own creatures with FtK seems poor

or pitch to a survival Homarids pitch to survival. That isn't a reason to run them though.


Also you are saying that StP is terrible in decks that don't run a lot of deck manipulation because it is dead in too many matches right?

We were specifically taking about threshold.
Comparing FtK to StP isn't particulary useful.
They are vastly different cards.

if you don't like FTK, then play welder survival or ATS, cause FTK is the core of the deck.
You would think I was suggesting dropping FtK altogether.

So I guess the answer to the question,
Would dropping an FtK for a utility creature improve the deck?
is a No?

quicksilver
09-06-2006, 04:28 PM
Hitting your own creatures with FtK seems poor
Homarids pitch to survival. That isn't a reason to run them though.
Homarids can be put back with deck maipulation, still not a reason to run them. Also saccing a mana souce when you don't need it anymore for a 4/2 seems better than having a 100% dead card in hand.




We were specifically taking about threshold.
Comparing FtK to StP isn't particulary useful.
They are vastly different cards.
Actually it is perfect. You are sugesting running less FTKs because there are not enough creatures to remove in the format. How is that any different from swords. You reasoning is completly aplicable to swords, not enough creatures.
And I am not just talking about theshold. Why does truffle shuffle run swords, wrath, and deed, when there are so few creatures in a format for a deck to even run 4 out of 60 cards for creature removal.

AngryTroll
09-06-2006, 04:48 PM
Do you ever miss having Troll Ascetic in the deck? I see a good amount of Blue-based control, so I admit I have not tested without him in ages. Were there situations where you wished you had him in the deck (usually situations with no Survival)?

legacyplayer0
09-06-2006, 04:52 PM
I'm gonna have to side with Quicksilver about FTK. It's just so important, I don't know why anyone would want less than 4 in the current metagame.

Btw, congrats on the FOW's.

quicksilver
09-06-2006, 04:54 PM
Do you ever miss having Troll Ascetic in the deck? I see a good amount of Blue-based control, so I admit I have not tested without him in ages. Were there situations where you wished you had him in the deck (usually situations with no Survival)?

He's ok, a little mana intensive. You have plenty of other targets for removal so it doesn't help make any of their cards dead. I guess the times I would most like him is when I need a blocker and they have removal, of course that takes like 5 mana to sucessfully do so. And no I never actually miss him.

Ta Jugs
09-06-2006, 04:57 PM
congrats on winning fow's

Bane of the Living
09-06-2006, 05:11 PM
Congrats on your finish.

..And for arguing about Homarids.

How the hell do you remember that many match details?

quicksilver
09-06-2006, 05:44 PM
How the hell do you remember that many match details?

Simple, I just made it up as I was typing.


Nah just kidding. I like to mull over the matches a lot in between rounds. It gives me time to see what I did wrong and think about what I could have done better, it helps me learn and become better. Also it helps me remeber details of the match. And well some of the smaller details may not be 100% accurate (like I might have had a bloodedstained mire when I wrote wooded foothills), but more than close enough to see how the match went.

URABAHN
09-06-2006, 07:22 PM
I love horses, Dave Price, and I owe you $42 *wink*. I think you did wonderful in the side tournament!