"Legend" card sleeves and the problems that ensued [Archive]

Cavius The Great

10-14-2006, 10:46 AM

I recently went to Kaybee Toys and noticed a package of 100 card sleeves selling for 4 bucks. I thought to myself, "what a great deal, my local card shop sells card sleeves for more than double that", so I quickly bought them. The sleeves were made by a company called "Legend" and they base they're operations out of Rochester NY. Now as I went home, I quickly replaced the sleeves to one of my decks. But as I opened the package, there was a very strong smell coming from the sleeves. It smelled very similiar to paint thinner and was repugnant and strong. That was the first indication that I was going to have problems with these sleeves. The sleeves were beautiful, nonetheless, and I had green ones that had psychadelic, reflective mirrors on the backside and it was quite hypnotic. I then replaced the sleeves to one of my decks and let them sit in my deck box for around 3 weeks. Then last night, my intuition kicked in and I felt something was terribly wrong, having to do with my card sleeves. I then opened my deckbox and checked the condition of the cards. The strong smell was still there after like 3 weeks which I found rather intriguing. I noticed on the back of some of the cards there were small little white spots on a majority of the cards. I've never noticed these spots on my cards before and unfortunately for me, my playset of Chrome Mox were affected. Even as I unsleeved the cards and put them in my old sleeves the smell of paint thinner still lingered. It's as if the chemical from these "Legend" sleeves seeped into my cards and not only damaged them, but also left a permanent smell to them. I figured I get my story out there and let people know the dangers of purchasing Legend sleeves. I would love to hear your comments and possible stories that anyone has had with there card sleeves. I also wouldn't mind for someone to drop a jewel of knowledge concerning card sleeves becuase I know very little about them. Well, that's my story. Discuss! :smile:

Anarky87

10-14-2006, 12:56 PM

The only problem I ever remember having with my sleeves was when I bought some of those Max Protection ones. They were on ebay and the deal was like 700 sleeves for $14. I thought, "Hey, not bad, I could use some sleeves, why not." So I place my order, pay, and then wait patiently till they arrive.

Soon they arrived, and I quickly started unsleeving one deck to put them in the new sleeves (The picture in the auction made them out to be blue, but they actually turned to be blue-ish purple). I only did one deck (Thank God) just to see how they played. After about a few goldfishes and games, all the corners were bent and most of the sleeve itself was peeling off. I wasn't ripple shuffling either, just taking one stack and sliding it into the other; not violently or rough though. Pretty soon my friend wanted some of mine and after a few games it happened to him, so I've vowed never to purchase Max Pro sleeves again.

Another story is that one time my friend bought a few boxes of those Deck Protectors that Ultra-Pro used to put out, except they were severely miscut and that had been a common problem recently with the sleeves. So my friend wrote Ultra-Pro a pretty nasty letter about how crappy their sleeve quality was and that he would never buy their sleeves again and would encourage others not to do so. A few weeks later they send him a store case of Deck Protectors and a letter that basically said, "Oops, sorry we messed up, here's some more bad sleeves. Thanks!" I don't know if they were miscut like the others, but he just used those for a really long time before switching to different ones.

Right now I'm using Dragon Sleeves, and besides minorly warping your cards, they work out fantastic, and I don't see myself buying any other.

Cavius The Great

10-14-2006, 01:07 PM

Thanx for posting bro. Have you known anyone that has been having problems with Legends sleeves? If so, let me know. :smile:

Brushwagg

10-14-2006, 07:14 PM

I've never bought "Legend"s but thanks for the heads up. Sounds really fishy to me.

For for the Max ones, I've had the same problem. They split really easy or the the backs split off them. They have some of the most awesome pictures but the quailty sucks.

As far as Ultra Pro goes, I've never had a problem with them. I still have some I bought back in the 90s. I will say though outside of the Gallery sleeves, which I usally buy, they have gotten pretty thin.

@Dragon Sheilds:I've never used them, but people I know use them and they are happy with them.

DeathwingZERO

10-14-2006, 07:38 PM

Dragon Shield sleeves and the Ultra Pro:Gallery series (non-foils) are hands down the best your going to get for your money. In comparison, the KMC Japanese "Super" sleeves are pretty damn close, for typically a bit cheaper.

This is basically both tested by Inquest Magazine about a year or two back, as well as personal playing between myself and my group. We all play with those three sets of sleeves primarily, and out of all, Dragon Shields and UP:G have NEVER had splits. Worst case scenario they are miscut.

Super sleeves haven't ever really split much either, but they (and the Dragon) tend to get the "spots" on the front and backs, from hand oils and tabletops. You can just wipe that off with a slightly moist paper towel every few weeks, if played regularly.

Anarky87

10-14-2006, 09:35 PM

Super sleeves haven't ever really split much either, but they (and the Dragon) tend to get the "spots" on the front and backs, from hand oils and tabletops. You can just wipe that off with a slightly moist paper towel every few weeks, if played regularly.

Thanks for the tidbit of info right there. I just got done wiping down my Truffle Shuffle deck (As it's getting the most use lately, I'm totally digging it), and I'm amazed at how well it now shuffles and looks. Before I had just been using a land card to scratch the crud off of them, but this works alot better. Thanks alot.

Drathro

10-14-2006, 11:05 PM

Ultra Pro has some quality control issues:

Being a Legacy player on a budget, there are certain cards that see play in more than one of my decks. So, I deceided to buy all one color of sleeves to minimize having to re-sleeve. Imagine my chagrin when the same color (Tsunami Blue) sleeves from two different packages of 50 were distiguishable from each other, making my deck's sleeves "illegal" under certain lighting conditions.

On the other hand, the Ultra Pro sleeves have been fine for play-testing and lower level play.

foursquare

10-15-2006, 01:34 AM

I currently use the KMC Metallic Blue sleeves. They just feel awesome in your hand, and I've yet to run into any problems with them. I've also used Dragon Shields, but they're kind of expensive, $9 a set of 100; if you want those I'd recommend Red or Green. They shuffle and feel the best.

Koby

10-15-2006, 05:13 AM

Dragon Sleeves have been the best for me so far. They are thicker but don't split absolutely never. Ok so many 5 out of every 100 are miscut or have burrs, but the rest is rock solid. They are expensive -- but they last you for well over 2 years.

Cavius The Great

10-15-2006, 07:09 AM

quicksilver

10-15-2006, 09:40 AM

The sleeves were made by a company called "Legend" and they base they're operations out of Rochester NY.

I guess I should have warned you that nothing good has ever come out of Rochester.

mikekelley

10-15-2006, 01:44 PM

I've used ultra pro deck protectors for a while with no issues, but I am anal and buy new sleeves for my decks as soon as they get sticky to shuffle. I need baby-ass smooth shuffling.

Vardaman

10-16-2006, 11:20 AM

Right now I'm using Dragon Sleeves, and besides minorly warping your cards, they work out fantastic, and I don't see myself buying any other.

I've never noticed that before. How do they warp? I haven't had any problems since I've switched to Dragon Shields.

And cleaning the sleeves with a semi-moist paper towel really helps to get the gunk spots off. It's also faster than scraping the spots off with another card.

Drathro

10-16-2006, 01:42 PM

5 out of every 100 are miscut or have burrs, but the rest is rock solid.
This is also mitigated by the fact that Dragon Shield seems to put more than 100 sleeves in a 100 sleeve box, at least in my experience (2 boxes bought, both had extra sleeves).

Ch33bs

10-16-2006, 05:12 PM

WIth ultra-pro sleeves they are usualy really good or are bad and tend to be miscut and crack easily. I used pink dragon sleeves for awhile they wern't that bad. I just felt like I got suckered $9.25 for 100 sleeves. I currently use Player's Choice and those have never given me problems. Well there was one problem once but that was becuase it was at limited states and the front were foily. The head judge didn't like them because he thought you could see the refections and jank. That was the only minor problem. Player's Choice hands down best bang foro your buck for sleeves I get mine 60 for $4.00.

Anarky87

10-16-2006, 05:21 PM

I've never noticed that before. How do they warp? I haven't had any problems since I've switched to Dragon Shields.

It doesn't happen all the time, and I've only noticed it on a few cards where perhaps that sleeve was tighter then the rest maybe. But when I've taken a few cards out of the sleeve, they had that slight curvature that the sleeve had when I put them on. Not a gripe, just something I've noticed and decided to toss out there; Dragon Shields are my favorite hands down.

dahcmai

10-16-2006, 05:35 PM

I use the KMC Japanese sleeves also. The White version picks up dirt really bad, but the blue, green and black ones seem to last forever. I always seemed to get miscut ultra-pros. Even when they were cut right they had a tendancy to push the card to the top of the sleeve, therefore nicking the very edge sometimes on the card.

I'll stick with the KMC ones, though I have heard good things about Dragon shields.

Brushwagg

10-16-2006, 07:31 PM

I know what you mean about warping on the Dragon Sheilds. Both Mr. Nightmare's and Wastedlife's Gro decks had a slight bend. Not sure if it was shuffling or what.

@Ultra Pro Foil Gallery or whatever they call them: I bought 2 sets. The first I was not impressed with at all. They kind of sucked in quality, but the picture was so damn cool. The second set have been fine for now. Again the picture made me buy them.

@Deathwing:Thanks for the info. Never thought of that.

Nightmare

10-17-2006, 07:41 AM

I know what you mean about warping on the Dragon Sheilds. Both Mr. Nightmare's and Wastedlife's Gro decks had a slight bend. Not sure if it was shuffling or what.I think that has more to do with them being foiled out than the sleeves.

Cavius The Great

10-17-2006, 05:22 PM

Does anyone know exactly what causes white spots to appear in the back of cards? i just checked a bunch of my decks and some had them regardless of what sleeves they were in.

Anarky87

10-17-2006, 05:30 PM

Does anyone know exactly what causes white spots to appear in the back of cards? i just checked a bunch of my decks and some had them regardless of what sleeves they were in.

I know sometimes they show up on my cards from the way I shuffle. But that may not be the case always.

quicksilver

10-17-2006, 05:32 PM

Does anyone know exactly what causes white spots to appear in the back of cards? i just checked a bunch of my decks and some had them regardless of what sleeves they were in.

It's caused by masterbating too much onto them. Seriously, you got to cut that shit out.

SillyMetalGAT

10-17-2006, 05:36 PM

It's caused my masterbating too much onto them. Seriously, you got to cut that shit out.

lolz. Funny shit Dave.

NANTUKO_SHADY

10-17-2006, 08:27 PM

It's caused by masterbating too much onto them. Seriously, you got to cut that shit out.

Hahaha... wow that was fuckin hilarious.. your so funny Dave!

Vardaman

10-17-2006, 09:34 PM

It doesn't happen all the time, and I've only noticed it on a few cards where perhaps that sleeve was tighter then the rest maybe. But when I've taken a few cards out of the sleeve, they had that slight curvature that the sleeve had when I put them on. Not a gripe, just something I've noticed and decided to toss out there; Dragon Shields are my favorite hands down.

I'll have to watch for that. I haven't noticed any abnormal curvature (other than on the foils).

freakish777

10-17-2006, 10:25 PM

Kaybee Toys ... "Legend" ... Rochester NY ... very strong smell ... beautiful ... psychadelic ... quite hypnotic ... small little white spots ... smell of paint thinner still lingered ... chemical

Am I the only person thinking there's drugs involved somewhere here (either on Cavius's part, or "Legend's" part)?

Cavius The Great

10-18-2006, 09:57 AM

LMAO..... Freakish, you just made my day. That post had me cracking up for like 5 minutes strait.

freakish777

10-22-2006, 03:28 AM

Seriously, the first thing I thought was:

"Strong Chemical smell -> little white spots" Wtf? A sleeve company has coated their sleeves with something that reacts to the cards and make cocaine when they mix?

So yeah (glad I made you laugh), it would be really funny if there was a company that made sleeves that interacted with the chemicals in the ink somehow (drug related or not).

jazzykat

10-22-2006, 11:41 AM

Before the topic completely goes out the window: I have 2 major sets of sleeves older ultra pros with the symbol in the left hand corner instead of the center (yeah that old!) when they used to come in card board boxes of 100 and a Japanese brand with not much English lettering on them (Yokoman?) I think they come in packs of 75 now.

The ultra pros are of mediocre quality but were the best I could find at the time. I will play with them until they get ultra shitty or split.

The Japanese sleeves are BULLET PROOF. They are cut extra long so no crap gets onto the top of your cards. It may not matter when the most expensive card in your deck is a dual land but when you are playing with NM power you want the extra length so that dirt has a hard time to get in. They shuffle beautifully and I have them in Gunmetal black which looks like serious business. I think they are made out of vinyl (like the dragon shields are). WARNING: They do not fit in Rook cases. I just put them in cheapy plastic deck boxes and then put them in my foam lined deck transporter to keep them safe.

@Dragon Shields: My friends swear by them but I prefer the longer tops for the reasons I mentioned above.

Lastly, if you want your sleaves to stick around or better yet not stick together, invest in a playmat. If a pack of dragon shields is about $10 and it gets goop from the table think of how much money you could have saved by buying that $10-$15 playmat.

Good luck and thanks for the warning!

Cavius The Great

10-23-2006, 05:20 PM

The Japanese sleeves are BULLET PROOF.

Hey bro, thanx for posting. What exactly are the name of those Japanese sleeves that you mentioned?

MarkPharaoh

10-24-2006, 05:19 PM

Cavius The Great

10-25-2006, 10:48 AM

I actually think I know what's causing the white spots. Little flakes of dust somehow get "burnt" into the back of the cards. I know this because I actually thought one of my cards acquired a "white spot" in the back but I scratched it off and it didn't seem to be permanent. I assume if you let one of these "dust particles" sit on your cards too long, they somehow become permanent over time. Maybe the acid in the Legends sleeves accelerated this process. That's just my theory.

Deger

11-22-2006, 08:53 PM

While I cant really mention why the sleeves might have messed the card back up I will say this... I have had cards sitting in sleeves for over 5 years with out being removed and they are are fine... the old black shield's (the only ones you could get at the time) yeah they would get a bit crappy on the backs and such but they split less then the clear ones that came with the plastic boxes...

I'm glad I found this post because I need to actually get more sleeves...

I knew a guy who used to have his whole deck in the hard case top loaders... Boy whas that funny when he set the deck on the table... It also made one hell of a noise when he smacked them down as he played them...

DeathwingZERO

11-22-2006, 09:08 PM

Someone I knew actually did put together a Battle of Wits deck in those things, just because we had enough hard cases to do it, and wanted to see how big the stack would be.

Biggest mistake and waste of 4 hours, ever. But damn was that a funny deck to look at.

ApokalypseKid9

11-22-2006, 09:12 PM

How much would I expect to pay for an elemental amber spellground mat?

DeathwingZERO

11-22-2006, 09:29 PM

I would say try looking it up on sites, I personally have no idea what playmats go for. I don't know many companies that have gotten into making them yet.

Deger

11-23-2006, 10:00 AM

Play mats are kinda cool... (geek factor going way up).. I like the PT ones with the red zone and all.. it's just a good way to place things, pretty clear cut..

The people I play with play at this coffee shop that is always full of smoke... which I really don't know why we play there but my cards always then smell like smoke... I didn't mind much when I smoked but it's a little upsetting now...

I am not going to get into the whole health thing but I do know my Force of nature gets winded every time he swings for 8 :)

but the mats are cool...

back to the sleeves anybody play with the silver ones with the chick on the back... I bought some singles from a shop and the silver makes the card face just pop...

just wondering who makes them and are they any good... I think there are some with a dragon on the back...

Anarky87

11-23-2006, 11:43 AM

How much would I expect to pay for an elemental amber spellground mat?

I paid around 18 for mine, except mine is black. I had been looking for a mat forever and my friend finally found a store on ebay that sold them, so we each got one.

Ebinsugewa

11-23-2006, 12:20 PM

Over the Edge games is currently selling the GP New Jersey mats, they're muy sexy and are very durable, you should check them out on eBay.

Bardo

11-24-2006, 06:13 PM

He's talking about Yanoman, probably the old GunMetal sleeves that are impossible to find now-a-days. The newer ones are nothing like the old ones if anyone was about to say "but they make them in 75 packs still".

Player's Choice and KMC Green/Blue/Silver/Purple are the way to go. KMC white and black contracts dirt like the plague and DragonShields are too inconsistent.

Yanoman Gunmetal were hands down the Best Sleeves Ever. Unfortunately, they either don't make them or something, because I haven't seen them in a long time. Which is really too bad. Dragon Shields are strong and never (in my experience) split, but I prefer sleeves that are longer.

Until I find a suitable replacement for the Gunmetal sleeves, I've just been using KMC--which shuffle great and are solid all-around.

Brushwagg

11-24-2006, 09:23 PM

freakish777

11-25-2006, 01:23 AM

@Bardo & whoever else was talking about Yanoman Gunmetal Sleeves:

You're talking about these:

These (http://www.trollandtoad.com/p96646.html?PHPSESSID=837f27c09c5d697278549ad639babec2)

as opposed to

these (http://www.trollandtoad.com/p118521.html?PHPSESSID=837f27c09c5d697278549ad639babec2)

right?

What if I found Copper/Shine Blue/Shine Purple as opposed to Gunmetal that otherwise were like the first ones (ie, would I have any problem with PVC in the backs to make them shiny and thus the sleeves splitting)?

Shriekmaw

11-25-2006, 11:39 PM

Dragon Sheilds are damn good. I'm starting to really like them.

@Playmats: After looking around I settled on a Dragon Sheild Play mat. It's kinda like a mouse pad. Doesn't slip on the table and cards move smoothly across it (tapping and what not). I got mine for about 13 or 14. Good mat if anyone is looking.

I have to agree with Brushwagg points about Dragon Shields being the best selves you can get at your local gaming store. I usually just buy cheap sleves if I'm playing in limited events, but I do get the good stuff for constructed events, especially big events.

I've gone through a lot of different playmats. I'm a big fan of the free one that I got at GP: New Jersey, which is working out very nicely.

kicks_422

11-25-2006, 11:48 PM

I bought silver Dragon sleeves around 7-8 years ago, and I'm still using them, and they're still in pretty good condition. I've bought a lot of other brands of shields within those 7-8 years, but they never lasted as long as the Dragon ones did.

freakish777

11-26-2006, 04:17 AM

...so anyone able to tell me about Yanoman Sleeves that came in 100 count packs that weren't Gunmetal??

They just as good, not as good (for some reason)?

xsockmonkeyx

11-26-2006, 07:54 PM

...so anyone able to tell me about Yanoman Sleeves that came in 100 count packs that weren't Gunmetal??

They just as good, not as good (for some reason)?

The copper ones are decent. They are certainly easier to find because they arent as popular a color. The types of Yanoman sleeves (I believe) is between Gunmetal and Shine and has to do with finish rather than color. Correct me if Im wrong.

100 count Yanomans are generally better quality than the newer 75 count though.

Bardo

11-27-2006, 01:32 AM

@ Freakish, everyone else - Yep, the 100-pack Yanoman Gunmetal. Seriously, they are the best damn sleeves ever. And I say this as a total sleeve-snob.

Cavius The Great

11-30-2006, 10:07 AM

I currently am using those Japanese sleeves, I forgot the name, they have like three initials in its name (KMC or something, I dunno), and I'm pretty much satisfied with them. The only problem is, when I'm at a tournament and like an hour into the tourney, my hands start to sweat a little, making the sleeves stick together and harder to shuffle. Does anyone know of any sleeves that eliminate and at least alleviate these problems?

Anusien

11-30-2006, 10:22 PM

@ Freakish, everyone else - Yep, the 100-pack Yanoman Gunmetal. Seriously, they are the best damn sleeves ever. And I say this as a total sleeve-snob.
I disagree. I find that the Yanomans pick up dents and scratches too easily. By contrast, Dragonshields sometimes have cutting problems (1 in 300 or so) and pick up spots of dirt more often, I can use them more often, especially in combination with a playmat and regular brushing off of dirt.

DeathwingZERO

11-30-2006, 10:48 PM

Cavius The Great

12-04-2006, 12:30 PM

@ Cavius: Most of the sleeves now will have that problem, regardless of who you use. Typically the KMC and Dragons are easiest to clean with that, just get a lightly moist paper towel and run it along the backs in between matches. It may take a few minutes, but it's well worth it to keep the grime off there for long enough to not collect into those dirt spots.

I'm not too concerned with the dirt spots as I am the sticking together of the sleeves. When my hands sweat, I usually have to wipe the backs of each sleeved card on my shirt one by one to alleviate this problem. I just wish there were better sleeves out there that this didn't happen to.

Cavius The Great

02-16-2007, 01:08 AM

Sorry for double posting but I have something important that I would like to mention. The main reason I've been getting white spots on my cards are because of the crappy KMC brand sleeves. KMC brand sleeves suck so bad. When I shuffle KMC sleeves it doesn't protect the cards like it should resulting in the "white spot dilemma". I've noticed that most my cards that haven't been in decks don't have white spots. This is becuase they have never been constantly shuffled. And get this, the main reason I haven't had this white spot problem until now is because, back in the day, I used to use Ultra Pro sleeves. Ever since I started using KMC sleeves is when the white spots started to occur. So take my word for it. Don't buy KMC sleeves, they're complete garbage.

On another note, has anyone liked or disliked the new Ultra Pro Official Magic Sleeves? I was thinking of getting some but wanted a little feedback from the forum ahead of time.

Happy Gilmore

03-06-2007, 07:30 AM

If you are not using Dragon Shields your doing something wrong. No other deck protectors last longer or feel better in your hands. (and yes I like the feel, appeals to my tactile nature :wink: )

Cavius The Great

03-06-2007, 02:53 PM

Does anyone know how good the new "official magic:the gathering" sleeves from Ultra Pro are? I was thinking of getting some but want to get some feedback on how good they are before buying them.

Shugyosha

03-08-2007, 02:30 PM

Does anyone know how good the new "official magic:the gathering" sleeves from Ultra Pro are?

I never used it myself and I heard that they are quite bad. I think several pros complained about them after a japanese GP or PT because they only lasted the tourney.
Since they are out I also haven't seen anyone playing with them on tourneys.

I think KMC's are by far the best because the cards sit tighter in it than in other sleeves and they are sooo slick...

PaPaSmurf

03-08-2007, 10:36 PM

Cavius The Great

03-09-2007, 12:04 PM

The Ultra Pro MTG Sleeves are complete and utter CRAP. Don't ever buy them. I bought them for the Grand Prix Dallas legacy side event and after playing with them for 30 minutes i could hardly shuffle them, and i'm not an aggressive shuffler. the corners bend like paper even though the sleeves have a very rough and bulky feel to them. The edges feel like they were cut with a metal file. It was just an over all very unpleasant experience. the only thing i can say for them is they are kinda cheap. but you are getting what you pay for.

The Ultra Pro MTG sleeves aren't cheap, they're like 8 bucks for 80 sleeves. They're almost as expensive as Dragon Shield sleeves. I haven't tried the Ultra Pro: Official MTG sleeves but I do use the regular Ultra Pro sleeves and absolutely love them. Thanx for the feedback though, now I know not to buy them. :wink: