[Deck] Solitary Confinement - Wake

[Maldur Sven Vedukor]

Well, i'm working in a wake deck with life from the loam and solitary confinement:

Lands
2 [ON] Lonely Sandbar
1 [5E] Forest
1 [5E] Plains
1 [5E] Island
2 [4E] Mishra's Factory
3 [A] Tundra
1 [ON] Tranquil Thicket
3 [ON] Flooded Strand
3 [ON] Windswept Heath
2 [A] Plateau
3 [A] Tropical Island

// Creatures
1 [MM] Squee, Goblin Nabob
2 [FD] Eternal Witness


// Spells
4 [TE] Intuition
3 [4E] Swords to Plowshares
2 [RAV] Life from the Loam
4 [5E] Brainstorm
3 [JU] Burning Wish
4 [US] Exploration
4 [6E] Enlightened Tutor
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [5E] Counterspell
2 [JU] Mirari's Wake
1 [OD] Mirari
2 [JU] Solitary Confinement

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [RAV] Life from the Loam
SB: 1 [7E] Wrath of God
SB: 1 [SC] Decree of Justice
SB: 1 [TE] Time Warp
SB: 1 [JU] Crush of Wurms
SB: 1 [PS] Hull Breach
SB: 2 [UD] Powder Keg
SB: 4 [PS] Meddling Mage
SB: 1 [LG] The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
SB: 1 [MM] Energy Flux
SB: 1 [IA] Glacial chasm


Well I'll try to explain the cards:

Solitary confinement: Protects me against aggro and combo decks.
Swords to plowshares: Removal against first turn lackey and meddling mage, and when solitary confinement fails.
Counterspell and force of will: Counters are crucial in this deck.
Exploration: For mana acceleration.
Life from the loam: Draw engine and fetchland recursion.
Intuition: For fetching LFTL, cycling lands and other stuff.
Enlightened tutor: For searching SC, wake, mirari and other stuff.
Eternal witness: For recursion. Good with LFTL, SC and intuition.
Cycling lands: Draw engine.
Mirari's wake: To produce mana to kill opponent with decree.

I run only 3 basic lands and my manabase can be destroyed by wasteland, but since i rul LFTL, it's not an important problem.

SC works well against aggro decks, such as goblins, and combo decks, such as solidarity and iggy pop.
The problem with threshold: it has more countermagic that my deck and meddling mages.

I feel the deck isn't ready yet. Maybe you could help me to improve the deck.

[Anusien]

Why do you need to run Mirari and Wake to kill with, instead of Land's Edge, Seismic Assault, or Lightning Rift?

[Maldur Sven Vedukor]

Maybe why I like wake?

[Anusien]

Maybe why I like wake?
Okay, why? It basically only helps from turn 6 onwards, and neither of the abilities help you beat aggro. It would be relevant against pure control, except that pure control doesn't exist, it's too slow to be relevant versus High Tide, and Decree of Justice is relevant on its own in those matchups.

[Maldur Sven Vedukor]

Okay, why? It basically only helps from turn 6 onwards, and neither of the abilities help you beat aggro. It would be relevant against pure control, except that pure control doesn't exist, it's too slow to be relevant versus High Tide, and Decree of Justice is relevant on its own in those matchups.

Turn 4 onwards. Wake has a quaruplying effect on decree, but that's not the point. The point is that I need help in the rest of the deck. A guy said me that the deck is close to a 5c eternal garden, but with counters.

[Anusien]

What does Mirari's Wake do in the deck? Specifically, how does it make other matchups useful?

Also, the absolute earliest Wake can come down is turn 5, so it can't start helping you until turn 6.

[Kadaj]

4 [US] Exploration

It is possible that Wake could come down as early as turn 3 in some hands (not that you'd necessarily want Wake to come down on turn 3 in that situation).

However, other than just speeding you up Wake doesn't seem to be doing much of anything for this deck. Is the accelleration it provides worth it?

[C.P.]

Some suggestions:

The wishboard cries for pyroclasm. I know that you have WoG in the board, but You need slightly faster answer sometimes. tabernacle can be maindecked, seeing how it robs tempo of aggro decks. StP count should be upped to four, given you need a bit of time to get online. Also, given that you can utilize uncanny amount of mana once you have control, why not try something like Invoke the Firemaid? Just as a singleton, of course.

I also see control matchup to be very problematic. How good this deck is against control?

[Maldur Sven Vedukor]

I also see control matchup to be very problematic. How good this deck is against control?
Good point. Control and Threshold are the hardest decks for me to beat. I know that 8 counters isn't enough protection against control decks.
The best option against control is duress and is off-color.
Then, what do you suggest?

[C.P.]

Some possible suggestion:

1. Chant effect - Abeyance might prove handy.

2. Changing the counter base - Counterspell with your kind of mana base looks suboptimal at best. Mana leak, or just ditch counters completely and take other means of control. Or you can just p the countermagic count so the deck can turn more of a permission deck, but you have to play wake and burning wish on your turn.

3. More Permanent based control - Engineered explosives? it hurts aggro controls quite a bit. same goes for the Powder Keg

[Maldur Sven Vedukor]

It's easy to have UU in this deck. Counterspell doesn't look suboptimal, but that's for me.
I run engineered explosives now, but what's better powder keg or explosives?


Or you can just p the countermagic count so the deck can turn more of a permission deck

I don't understand this, because my english is bad.

[sammiel]

if I understand the context correctly, he means (u)p the countermagic count

[Maldur Sven Vedukor]

Thanks.

But, what should i cut for more countermagic?

[Bane of the Living]

You should play Forbid, with Loam its practically a lock.

[Maldur Sven Vedukor]

Yeah, forbid is great with loam. But what should i cut for 2 forbid?

[Mirrislegend]

I think you need to decide if this is a Confinement-Loam deck or a Wake deck. Resolve the Confinement-Loam lock, and you should be well on your way to winning the game. Resolve Mirari's Wake, and you should also be winning. Both are not necessary. You are better off tightening up your list by focusing on one theme. I'd say go with Confinement-Loam, because it looks like a Confinement-Loam list, with Wakes randomly thrown in.

[C.P.]

It's easy to have UU in this deck. Counterspell doesn't look suboptimal, but that's for me.
I run engineered explosives now, but what's better powder keg or explosives?



I don't understand this, because my english is bad.


Sammiel explained what I meant. Sorry for the bad writing.


Keg and EE has their own strength. If you see a lot of affinity in your meta, keg is the way too go. If not, go with EE, since it covers enchantments as well. EE is a little bit faster as well, but keg works slightly better in control.

You can have UU as long as your opponents does not run wasteland/port. Or Back to Basics, even.

As Other people suggested, Forbid is a nice idea. Perhaps

4 FoW
4 Counterspell
2 Forbid

and cut some sorcery speed controls?

EDIT: This just came to me, but how about turboland-ish deck with interaction between Loam-wake-exploration(horn of greed?)
Then You might be able to cut the confinement somehow and just be a combo-control deck.

[Maldur Sven Vedukor]

Keg and EE has their own strength. If you see a lot of affinity in your meta, keg is the way too go. If not, go with EE, since it covers enchantments as well. EE is a little bit faster as well, but keg works slightly better in control.

You can have UU as long as your opponents does not run wasteland/port. Or Back to Basics, even.

As Other people suggested, Forbid is a nice idea. Perhaps

4 FoW
4 Counterspell
2 Forbid

and cut some sorcery speed controls?

Against affinity I have energy flux.

Burning Wish and LFTL are the only sorceries i run. You meant i should cut wish?


I think you need to decide if this is a Confinement-Loam deck or a Wake deck. Resolve the Confinement-Loam lock, and you should be well on your way to winning the game. Resolve Mirari's Wake, and you should also be winning. Both are not necessary. You are better off tightening up your list by focusing on one theme. I'd say go with Confinement-Loam, because it looks like a Confinement-Loam list, with Wakes randomly thrown in.

Yes, you're right. This looks a LFTL-SC deck with wakes. If I've to decide, i choose wake, because it was my original idea.

[Cavius The Great]

Mirari's Wake is just bad. It's a win more card for the deck. You either play Mirari's Wake with Palinchron or you don't play Wake at all.

[Cait_Sith]

It doesn't have to be Palinchron, but it has to be in the same general vein.

[C.P.]

Against affinity I have energy flux.

Burning Wish and LFTL are the only sorceries i run. You meant i should cut wish?

Wish is the heart and soul of the deck. So NO. I guess You should be cutting confinement and be a combo/aggro.

A rough list that might help you.

Lands

2 Lonely Sandbar
1 Forest
1 Plains
2 Island
3 Tundra
2 Tranquil Thicket
3 Flooded Strand
3 Windswept Heath
2 Plateau
3 Tropical Island

3 Moment's Peace

3 Intuition
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Life from the Loam
4 Brainstorm
3 Burning Wish
4 Exploration
4 Enlightened Tutor
3 Horn of Greed

4 Force of Will
4 Counterspell
2 Forbid

2 Mirari's Wake
1 Mirari


I'll not touch sideboard yet.

I just came up with the list, so it is very rough and untested, but I hope you can get the idea.

[Maldur Sven Vedukor]

Well, this list has a good idea, but at least one confinement should be in sb, against combo decks. I tryed an old decklist with horns of greed.

[Anusien]

Confinement isn't that great as a sideboard tool. If your deck can support it, you should build the deck around it, and if you can't, you shouldn't. There are better tools that are either not vulnerable to bounce (Gilded Light, Orim's Chant, Abeyance), or that are harder to remove (Rule of Law, Glowrider, True Believer).

[Mirrislegend]

Mirari's Wake is just bad. It's a win more card for the deck. You either play Mirari's Wake with Palinchron or you don't play Wake at all.

Not necessarily true. If you untap with a Wake, chances are you will win. Whether it be Compulsioning through your deck for whatever card you want, Capsizing everything they own, or dropping a Seedborne Muse to do it all over again on their turn; Mirari's Wake makes it possible.

[Maldur Sven Vedukor]

Not necessarily true. If you untap with a Wake, chances are you will win. Whether it be Compulsioning through your deck for whatever card you want, Capsizing everything they own, or dropping a Seedborne Muse to do it all over again on their turn; Mirari's Wake makes it possible.
Yes, I can use compulsion, capsize, palinchron and specially seedborn muse. I really like seedborn muse, but it's not tutorable (I like to see vampiric tutor unbanned :tongue: ). Also compulsion may be useful, or maybe sacred mesa.


Confinement isn't that great as a sideboard tool. If your deck can support it, you should build the deck around it, and if you can't, you shouldn't. There are better tools that are either not vulnerable to bounce (Gilded Light, Orim's Chant, Abeyance), or that are harder to remove (Rule of Law, Glowrider, True Believer).

Yes, these are better tools against combo. And confinement should be MD, if i run it. I should run against combo something that's tutorable.



Against affinity I have energy flux.

Burning Wish and LFTL are the only sorceries i run. You meant i should cut wish?
Wish is the heart and soul of the deck. So NO. I guess You should be cutting confinement and be a combo/aggro.

A rough list that might help you.

Lands

2 Lonely Sandbar
1 Forest
1 Plains
2 Island
3 Tundra
2 Tranquil Thicket
3 Flooded Strand
3 Windswept Heath
2 Plateau
3 Tropical Island

3 Moment's Peace

3 Intuition
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Life from the Loam
4 Brainstorm
3 Burning Wish
4 Exploration
4 Enlightened Tutor
3 Horn of Greed

4 Force of Will
4 Counterspell
2 Forbid

2 Mirari's Wake
1 Mirari


I'll not touch sideboard yet.

I just came up with the list, so it is very rough and untested, but I hope you can get the idea.

I like your idea, but maybe a moment's peace may be cut for a SC. That's because SC is useful against both aggro and combo. I prefer confinement rather than like moment's peace, but that's for me.
My deck can support it well and it can be tutored, but that's for me.

Maybe i could include Riftstone portal for color fixing and oboro, because it's useful with horns.

I'll post a decklist soon.

[Lord Xœvx Cvrsed]

Here's my decklist.

// Lands
3 [R] Tundra
3 [R] Tropical Island
1 [B] Plateau
1 [B] Volcanic Island
3 [ON] Flooded Strand
1 [5E] Island (1)
3 [ON] Windswept Heath
1 [5E] Forest (1)
2 [VI] Quicksand
2 [4E] Mishra's Factory
2 [TE] Wasteland

// Creatures
2 [FD] Eternal Witness

// Spells
4 [5E] Counterspell
3 [JU] Mirari's Wake
1 [OD] Mirari
4 [US] Exploration
3 [JU] Burning Wish
4 [MM] Brainstorm
4 [4E] Swords to Plowshares
4 [AL] Force of Will
3 [RAV] Life from the Loam
2 [7E] Wrath of God
2 [TE] Intuition
2 [IN] Fact or Fiction
2 [SH] Horn of Greed

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [7E] Wrath of God
SB: 4 [PS] Meddling Mage
SB: 1 [OD] Time Stretch
SB: 1 [JU] Crush of Wurms
SB: 1 [SC] Decree of Justice
SB: 1 [PS] Hull Breach
SB: 3 [SC] Stifle
SB: 2 [UD] Powder Keg
SB: 3 [ON] True Believer

Well, my deck is simmilar to C.P.'s decklist. But with no tutors.
What do you suggest?

[Mirrislegend]

Force of Will does NOT, under any circumstances, belong in a deck with only 8 other spells. And I dont see why people play Wake in a Loam deck. Wake decks are awesome because of the huge spells they can cast. Loam decks cant put that much weight on each card, for fear of dredging it away. Wake-Confinement works. Confinement-Loam works. Wake-Loam does NOT WORK.

[Maldur Sven Vedukor]

Well, i worked in this decklist:

// Lands
2 [ON] Lonely Sandbar
1 [5E] Forest (2)
1 [5E] Plains (4)
1 [5E] Island (3)
3 [A] Tundra
1 [ON] Tranquil Thicket
3 [ON] Flooded Strand
3 [ON] Windswept Heath
2 [A] Plateau
3 [A] Tropical Island
1 [JU] Riftstone Portal
1 [JU] Nantuko Monastery

// Spells
4 [TE] Intuition
4 [4E] Swords to Plowshares
2 [RAV] Life from the Loam
4 [5E] Brainstorm
3 [JU] Burning Wish
4 [US] Exploration
3 [6E] Enlightened Tutor
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [5E] Counterspell
2 [JU] Mirari's Wake
1 [OD] Mirari
2 [JU] Solitary Confinement
2 [EX] Forbid

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [SC] Decree of Justice
SB: 1 [TE] Time Warp
SB: 1 [JU] Crush of Wurms
SB: 1 [PS] Hull Breach
SB: 1 [UD] Powder Keg
SB: 4 [PS] Meddling Mage
SB: 1 [LG] The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
SB: 2 [TSB] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 1 [TE] Humility
SB: 1 [CHK] Boseiju, Who Shelters All
SB: 1 [7E] Pyroclasm

I haven't cut confinement now, because it's useful against both aggro and combo. Moment's peace may help against aggro, but not against combo. True believer, rule of law, arcane laboratory, abeyance and glided light only are useful against combo.
Orim's chant also may help against both aggro and combo.
The advantage of confinement is that it can be tutored.
Maybe you have an alternative to confinement.

I put in SB pyroclasm and boseiju. Boseiju is against decks that run counters and/or chalice of the void, such as thershold.


Maybe you could suggest me what should i modify.

[Lord Xœvx Cvrsed]

Force of Will does NOT, under any circumstances, belong in a deck with only 8 other spells. And I dont see why people play Wake in a Loam deck. Wake decks are awesome because of the huge spells they can cast. Loam decks cant put that much weight on each card, for fear of dredging it away. Wake-Confinement works. Confinement-Loam works. Wake-Loam does NOT WORK.

Well, loam is for fetchland recursion. Maybe running tutors and confinement is better. If i add forbid, cycling lands and confinement, then loam is very useful. Otherwise, please tell me an alternative.

[Maldur Sven Vedukor]

@C.P.: I tested a decklist simmilar to the list you posted. The only problem is moment's peace only works against aggro decks, and confinement works against both aggro and combo, and it's tutorable. Maybe you could suggest me a good alternative to confinement

[C.P.]

@C.P.: I tested a decklist simmilar to the list you posted. The only problem is moment's peace only works against aggro decks, and confinement works against both aggro and combo, and it's tutorable. Maybe you could suggest me a good alternative to confinement

Problem with confinement is that you have to build a deck around it. I admit that the peace is not the best idea, but I'm against putting the confinement back in.

Here are some options:

1. Just keep the peace and make a combo hate SB. recommended if your meta is aggro heavy.

2. play Orim's Chant instead. It is pseudo fog effect, although it is not reusable. It also hoses combo for a bit.

3. Play lands that stops attacking, such as glacial chasm.


Well, This is all I can think of right now. Good luck.:smile:

[Lord Xœvx Cvrsed]

Well, this is my new decklist:

// Lands
2 [ON] Lonely Sandbar
1 [5E] Forest (2)
1 [5E] Plains (4)
1 [5E] Island (3)
3 [A] Tundra
1 [ON] Tranquil Thicket
3 [ON] Flooded Strand
3 [ON] Windswept Heath
2 [A] Plateau
3 [A] Tropical Island
1 [IA] Glacial Chasm
1 [JU] Nantuko Monastery

// Spells
4 [TE] Intuition
4 [4E] Swords to Plowshares
2 [RAV] Life from the Loam
4 [5E] Brainstorm
3 [JU] Burning Wish
4 [US] Exploration
3 [6E] Enlightened Tutor
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [5E] Counterspell
2 [JU] Mirari's Wake
1 [OD] Mirari
3 [PS] Orim's chant
2 [EX] Forbid

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [SC] Decree of Justice
SB: 1 [TE] Time Warp
SB: 1 [JU] Crush of Wurms
SB: 1 [PS] Hull Breach
SB: 1 [UD] Powder Keg
SB: 4 [PS] Meddling Mage
SB: 1 [LG] The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
SB: 2 [TSB] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 1 [TE] Humility
SB: 1 [CHK] Boseiju, Who Shelters All
SB: 1 [7E] Pyroclasm

Well, i added orim's chant and glacial chasm. Glacial chasm is useful against aggro and orim's chant against both aggro and combo.

I need more suggestions to improve the deck.

[C.P.]

Well, this is my new decklist:

// Lands
2 [ON] Lonely Sandbar
1 [5E] Forest (2)
1 [5E] Plains (4)
1 [5E] Island (3)
3 [A] Tundra
1 [ON] Tranquil Thicket
3 [ON] Flooded Strand
3 [ON] Windswept Heath
2 [A] Plateau
3 [A] Tropical Island
1 [IA] Glacial Chasm
1 [JU] Nantuko Monastery

// Spells
4 [TE] Intuition
4 [4E] Swords to Plowshares
2 [RAV] Life from the Loam
4 [5E] Brainstorm
3 [JU] Burning Wish
4 [US] Exploration
3 [6E] Enlightened Tutor
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [5E] Counterspell
2 [JU] Mirari's Wake
1 [OD] Mirari
3 [PS] Orim's chant
2 [EX] Forbid

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [SC] Decree of Justice
SB: 1 [TE] Time Warp
SB: 1 [JU] Crush of Wurms
SB: 1 [PS] Hull Breach
SB: 1 [UD] Powder Keg
SB: 4 [PS] Meddling Mage
SB: 1 [LG] The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
SB: 2 [TSB] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 1 [TE] Humility
SB: 1 [CHK] Boseiju, Who Shelters All
SB: 1 [7E] Pyroclasm

Well, i added orim's chant and glacial chasm. Glacial chasm is useful against aggro and orim's chant against both aggro and combo.

I need more suggestions to improve the deck.

I'd like to see that second basic island packed in somewhere, just because B2B will totally wreck you. Is monastary really necessary here? I like the card, but I'm not sure if you want it as an alternative kill condition.

[Lord Xœvx Cvrsed]

I use that monastery as additional win condition, but maybe it's better cutting a monastery for an island.

[Maldur Sven Vedukor]

I was thinking to add ligthning rift (against creatures) and/or fluctuator (obviously i'd cut the cycling lands for blasted landscapes).

This is a good or bad idea?

[Cait_Sith]

Very bad. Rifter already tends to be a bad deck.

[C.P.]

I was thinking to add ligthning rift (against creatures) and/or fluctuator (obviously i'd cut the cycling lands for blasted landscapes).

This is a good or bad idea?

I agree with Cait Sith. That will make the deck way too janky.

[Maldur Sven Vedukor]

This is my actual decklist:

// Lands
2 [ON] Lonely Sandbar
1 [5E] Forest (2)
1 [5E] Plains (4)
1 [5E] Island (3)
3 [A] Tundra
1 [ON] Tranquil Thicket
3 [ON] Flooded Strand
3 [ON] Windswept Heath
2 [A] Plateau
3 [A] Tropical Island
1 [MI] Island (4)
1 [5E] Mountain (2)

// Spells
4 [TE] Intuition
4 [4E] Swords to Plowshares
2 [RAV] Life from the Loam
4 [5E] Brainstorm
3 [JU] Burning Wish
4 [US] Exploration
3 [6E] Enlightened Tutor
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [5E] Counterspell
2 [JU] Mirari's Wake
1 [OD] Mirari
2 [JU] Solitary Confinement
2 [EX] Forbid

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [SC] Decree of Justice
SB: 1 [TE] Time Warp
SB: 1 [JU] Crush of Wurms
SB: 1 [PS] Hull Breach
SB: 3 [PS] Meddling Mage
SB: 1 [LG] The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
SB: 2 [TSB] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 1 [TE] Humility
SB: 1 [CHK] Boseiju, Who Shelters All
SB: 1 [7E] Pyroclasm
SB: 1 [MR] Chalice of the Void
SB: 1 [EX] Sphere of Resistance

Now i've chosen confinement by the reason that it's useful against aggro and combo.
I have a good goblins and solidarity matchup. That's because with exploration i can play confinement early (turn 2). This is a headache for goblins and solidarity. If goblins splash white, they can destroy it my confinement, but for each disenchant i have 2,5 counters. Solidarity can Wipe Away my confinement. But 10 counters + 3 meddling mage +1 chalice of the void +1 sphere of resistance it's enough to deal with solidarity.
Threshold is more hard to beat, since they run counters. I use crypts for weakening them and swords to kill some creatures. Also i can counter mongoose, or use confinement (i have counters to protect it).

Then, i want to use a good alternative to confinement as C.P. said, but it should be tutorable. I'd choose propaganda.

One more thing. I lack of a mainboard win condition, and i need some help about what should i run (I'd run sacred mesa). What should i cut for it?

Thoughts, suggestions?

[C.P.]

This is my actual decklist:

// Lands
2 [ON] Lonely Sandbar
1 [5E] Forest (2)
1 [5E] Plains (4)
1 [5E] Island (3)
3 [A] Tundra
1 [ON] Tranquil Thicket
3 [ON] Flooded Strand
3 [ON] Windswept Heath
2 [A] Plateau
3 [A] Tropical Island
1 [MI] Island (4)
1 [5E] Mountain (2)

// Spells
4 [TE] Intuition
4 [4E] Swords to Plowshares
2 [RAV] Life from the Loam
4 [5E] Brainstorm
3 [JU] Burning Wish
4 [US] Exploration
3 [6E] Enlightened Tutor
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [5E] Counterspell
2 [JU] Mirari's Wake
1 [OD] Mirari
2 [JU] Solitary Confinement
2 [EX] Forbid

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [SC] Decree of Justice
SB: 1 [TE] Time Warp
SB: 1 [JU] Crush of Wurms
SB: 1 [PS] Hull Breach
SB: 3 [PS] Meddling Mage
SB: 1 [LG] The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
SB: 2 [TSB] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 1 [TE] Humility
SB: 1 [CHK] Boseiju, Who Shelters All
SB: 1 [7E] Pyroclasm
SB: 1 [MR] Chalice of the Void
SB: 1 [EX] Sphere of Resistance

Now i've chosen confinement by the reason that it's useful against aggro and combo.
I have a good goblins and solidarity matchup. That's because with exploration i can play confinement early (turn 2). This is a headache for goblins and solidarity. If goblins splash white, they can destroy it my confinement, but for each disenchant i have 2,5 counters. Solidarity can Wipe Away my confinement. But 10 counters + 3 meddling mage +1 chalice of the void +1 sphere of resistance it's enough to deal with solidarity.
Threshold is more hard to beat, since they run counters. I use crypts for weakening them and swords to kill some creatures. Also i can counter mongoose, or use confinement (i have counters to protect it).

Then, i want to use a good alternative to confinement as C.P. said, but it should be tutorable. I'd choose propaganda.

One more thing. I lack of a mainboard win condition, and i need some help about what should i run (I'd run sacred mesa). What should i cut for it?

Thoughts, suggestions?

Powder keg is very good against threshold, as blowing it up for 1 or 2 clears their board. The point that you should focus when playing thresh is that they have few actual threat. The density look high just because of cantrips. The key is sweeping the boar for 2+ card advantage. Chalice at 1 also brakes the game in half.

About the win condition:

1. 'Hidden' enchantments: I believe that there are 5/5 that animated when someone plays a nonbasic land and 4/4 that animates when they play instant.

2. Sacred Mesa: As you mentioned, it is not bad. With wake, you can make huge army that wins the game. Other token generating enchantments are not as good.

3. An artifact that wins you the game: With all that mana, you have lot of choice. You ca even hardcast the Darksteel Colosuss...:smile: Well, the colossus is a joke but something like that would be nice.


EDIT: Why haven't I though of this? A Stormbind might be very nice. Seismic assault is not an option because of its casting cost, but stormbind can fit in.

[Lord Xœvx Cvrsed]

Well, this is my new decklist:

// Lands
2 [ON] Lonely Sandbar
1 [5E] Forest (2)
1 [5E] Plains (4)
2 [5E] Island (3)
3 [A] Tundra
2 [ON] Tranquil Thicket
3 [ON] Flooded Strand
3 [ON] Windswept Heath
2 [A] Plateau
3 [A] Tropical Island

// Spells
4 [TE] Intuition
4 [4E] Swords to Plowshares
2 [RAV] Life from the Loam
4 [5E] Brainstorm
3 [JU] Burning Wish
4 [US] Exploration
3 [6E] Enlightened Tutor
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [5E] Counterspell
2 [JU] Mirari's Wake
1 [OD] Mirari
2 [TE] Propaganda
2 [EX] Forbid

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [SC] Decree of Justice
SB: 1 [TE] Time Warp
SB: 1 [JU] Crush of Wurms
SB: 1 [MI] Serenity
SB: 2 [MR] Chalice of the Void
SB: 3 [PS] Meddling Mage
SB: 1 [RAV] Life from the Loam
SB: 2 [UL] Powder Keg
SB: 1 [7E] Wrath of God
SB: 1 [CHK] Boseiju, Who Shelters All
SB: 1 [7E] Pyroclasm

I added propaganda to stop aggro decks and added sacred meas as additional win condition.

Then, what do you think?

[Tao]

Then, what do you think?

I think that too much decklists are posted in this thread. You should rather discuss general strategy and single card choices instead of posting a new decklist with every post.

[Lord Xœvx Cvrsed]

I think that too much decklists are posted in this thread. You should rather discuss general strategy and single card choices instead of posting a new decklist with every post.

You're right. I've posted lots of decklist.

Well, i was talking about running propaganda instead of solitary confinement. It's a good or bad idea?

Other possibilities are moat and energy field (this is not very good).

[Maldur Sven Vedukor]

I want to discuss how to endure until wake hits the board, what's the most appropiate draw engine, what's the most appropiate removal, what are the most appropiate counters and what win conditions should the deck run.

I explained my card choices and strategies in previous posts :wink: .

Suggestions? Criticism? Only constructive criticism is allowed.

[Lord Xœvx Cvrsed]

Well, I want a serious discussion of:

1) How to survive until wake hits the board
2) Draw engine
3) How many counters
4) Win conditions
5) Removal
6) Acceleration
7) How to gain tempo

I posted my Ideas in previous posts.

[Maldur Sven Vedukor]

Sammiel explained what I meant. Sorry for the bad writing.


Keg and EE has their own strength. If you see a lot of affinity in your meta, keg is the way too go. If not, go with EE, since it covers enchantments as well. EE is a little bit faster as well, but keg works slightly better in control.

You can have UU as long as your opponents does not run wasteland/port. Or Back to Basics, even.

As Other people suggested, Forbid is a nice idea. Perhaps

4 FoW
4 Counterspell
2 Forbid

and cut some sorcery speed controls?

EDIT: This just came to me, but how about turboland-ish deck with interaction between Loam-wake-exploration(horn of greed?)
Then You might be able to cut the confinement somehow and just be a combo-control deck.


I'll try a turboland like deck.

Thhis is a rough list:

2 Lonely Sandbar
1 Forest
1 Plains
2 Island
3 Tundra
2 Tranquil Thicket
3 Flooded Strand
3 Windswept Heath
2 Plateau
3 Tropical Island

3 Moment's Peace

3 Intuition
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Life from the Loam
4 Brainstorm
3 Burning Wish
4 Exploration
4 Enlightened Tutor
2 Horn of Greed

4 Force of Will
4 Counterspell
2 Forbid

2 Mirari's Wake
1 Mirari

Sideboard
1 Wrath of god
1 Pyroclasm
1 Time Stretch
1 Decree of Justice
1 Serenity
1 Life from the Loam
3 Meddling Mage
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Sphere of Resistance
1 Chalice of the Void
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1 The tabernacle at pendrell vale

The explaination:
Moment's pèace: Stops aggro decks two turns.
Swords to plowshares: Removal against first turn lackey and meddling mage, and when solitary confinement fails.
Counterspell and force of will: Counters are crucial in this deck.
Exploration: For mana acceleration.
Life from the loam: Draw engine and fetchland recursion.
Intuition: For fetching LFTL, cycling lands and other stuff.
Enlightened tutor: For searching SC, wake, mirari and other stuff.
Eternal witness: For recursion. Good with LFTL, SC and intuition.
Cycling lands: Draw engine.
Mirari's wake: To produce mana to kill opponent with decree.
Forbid: Since it's buyback ability, with lftl works very well.
Horn of Greed: Good with exploration

Thoughts, suggestions, criticism? Non-constructive criticism is NOT allowed.

[Rood]

I'll try a turboland like deck.

Thhis is a rough list:

2 Lonely Sandbar
1 Forest
1 Plains
2 Island
3 Tundra
2 Tranquil Thicket
3 Flooded Strand
3 Windswept Heath
2 Plateau
3 Tropical Island

3 Moment's Peace

3 Intuition
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Life from the Loam
4 Brainstorm
3 Burning Wish
4 Exploration
4 Enlightened Tutor
2 Horn of Greed

4 Force of Will
4 Counterspell
2 Forbid

2 Mirari's Wake
1 Mirari

Sideboard
1 Wrath of god
1 Pyroclasm
1 Time Stretch
1 Decree of Justice
1 Serenity
1 Life from the Loam
3 Meddling Mage
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Sphere of Resistance
1 Chalice of the Void
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1 The tabernacle at pendrell vale

The explaination:
Moment's pèace: Stops aggro decks two turns.
Swords to plowshares: Removal against first turn lackey and meddling mage, and when solitary confinement fails.
Counterspell and force of will: Counters are crucial in this deck.
Exploration: For mana acceleration.
Life from the loam: Draw engine and fetchland recursion.
Intuition: For fetching LFTL, cycling lands and other stuff.
Enlightened tutor: For searching SC, wake, mirari and other stuff.
Eternal witness: For recursion. Good with LFTL, SC and intuition.
Cycling lands: Draw engine.
Mirari's wake: To produce mana to kill opponent with decree.
Forbid: Since it's buyback ability, with lftl works very well.
Horn of Greed: Good with exploration

Thoughts, suggestions, criticism? Non-constructive criticism is NOT allowed.
Now my question to you is. You're only Kill condition is burning wish...So first turn duress + exirpate is gg or just extirpating You're Plauteus is GG also, Maybe try running some manlands in here or At least make your win condition more than one card in your deck.

[Maldur Sven Vedukor]

You're right. Running some manlands or maybe including sacred mesa is a good idea.