[Brainstorming] Extirpate-DOT-Deck

[Complete_Jank]

Ok, there are lots of heated discussions about how strong the card Extirpate is, but no one is discussing how to include it into play strategy, and focusing on it. Like usual, people are looking to add it to an already good deck. Many cards require the redesigning around a card to take full advantage of it, as trying to add a card to a deck that wasn't designed with it in mind is like trying to put a larger engine into a car that can't hold it.

IMHO, I think Extirpate is a great addition to the card selection for this format, but isn't broken or over powered like many people believe. It will see play, but most likely from the sideboard.

If I believe this, you must be asking why I am starting this thread. Well, I believe if a card has the potential to be broken then build a deck to break it. While Extirpate isn't "Broken" it has potential to be very good, and very good cards help make very good decks, and very good decks win often.



First lets look at what it will be good against:
Control and some Combo

Now lets look at what it will be bad against:
Aggro and some Combo


Choices for Deck colors.
Mono-Black: This would provide the most stable manabase, and Mono-Black is good against Aggro which Extirpate will be weaker against.

Black-Blue: This could provide counter back up to put spells into graves, as well as best access to draw more cards, threats, and removal. Would help against Combo matches as well. Blue also has a little bit of recursion, but it is weak.

Black-Red: Red and Black are probably the best answer to Aggro as sweeper effects early, but what else would Red provide?

Black-White: White allows for the best target removal in the game, Vindicate. StP would also be nice, but is counter productive when looking at use with Extirpate.

Black-Green: I think this is possibly the strongest approach as it will provide Recursion of Extirpate and other cards along with allowing a complete board sweeper in Pernicious Deed.

Black-Blue-White: The 3 control colors with a little weaker manabase might be interesting. Meddling Mage in conjunction with removal of most other win conditions might be strong.

Black-Blue-Green: These three colors together would allow recursion and counters.


Now play strategies:
Black allows for cheap LD, and Extirpate is great at removing non-basic lands. Some match-ups LD could be the way to win, specially against Landstill.

Removal of Win Conditions, is strong as many decks don't run many different win conditions, but again this is why Extirpate isn't good against Aggro.

Defense against Control, by removing counter spells, specifically Force of Will. Think how different a Threshold match up would be with out FoW, or any control deck for that matter. Playing with out having to worry about counters would make every card in your deck stronger, as they would resolve.

Disruption against Combo, while not all combo might be effected, many could suffer a loss because of one set of cards removed.


What to worry about:
Chalice of the Void @1
Ground Seal

Thus we need removal cards like Pernicious Deed, Powder Keg, Oblivion Stone, or something similar, maybe even a disenchant like spell.



I hope this provides better focused discussion on how to use Extirpate and what kind of a deck to design it into.

[xsockmonkeyx]

Zilla got it right the first time:


I'm pretty sure the only thinking the format will be doing about Extirpate.dec is how much it sucks. This is obviously speculation on both our parts, but I see the card as yet another somewhat exciting yet totally overhyped card which will see a lot of play at local tournaments for about 3 weeks and then will promptly disappear aside from occasional sideboard usage. You really can't build a deck around it, because in all but a very few cases, it doesn't win games. This is the same reason you can't build a deck around Red Elemental Blast..

Please make this deck and play it in a tournament. I for one would love to be matched up against it.

[Aggro_zombies]

Um...this is great and all, but uh, how exactly does Extirpate win you the game? Do you cast Extirpate and then Radiate and pray your opponent concedes? Extirpate is at best an accessory to a strategy, and not the keystone of the strategy in and of itself. For example, any deck built to abuse Extirpate could do the job ten gazillion times better with Haunting Echoes, simply because the Echoes will hit for everything at once and actually cripple your opponent's deck. The best Extirpate does is cripple decks running one or two win conditions that you manage to kill/rip with discard before they can win. As far as I can tell, there are no widely played decks in the format that roll over and die from losing one or two cards (as it is unreasonable to expect to get more than one or two Extirpates unless you tutor for it or run a shit-ton of draw).

If you're going to cripple them by devastating their yards and decks, do it with Echoes and countermagic backup. You could even run Glimpse the Unthinkable if you really wanted to.

EDIT: oh wait, never mind. Extirpate + Radiate doesn't work because Extirpate has split second, durf durf durf.

[C-Aleric]

Extripate does not need to be the focus of a deck. But, I've thrown together a black/green control that abuses it pretty well. First of all. Wasteland + Extripate is awesome. Duress + Extripate = Awesome. These two ideas seem to be the best way to go for now in Legacy. Now, you either want a proactive deck, or a reactive deck. And I don't really like reactive. So my list was discard, and remove from the game.

Main cards for me to consider were: Board sweepers, Milling, and Recursion.

// Classical Mechanics (That's the lecture Phya and I were in when we came up with this list)

// Lands
4 [A] Bayou
3 [ON] Bloodstained Mire
2 [9E] Forest
3 [ON] Polluted Delta
6 [6E] Swamp
4 [TE] Wasteland

// Spells
4 [US] Duress
4 [PC] Extripate
2 [WL] Gaea's Blessing
2 [OD] Haunting Echoes
4 [FE] Hymn to Tourach
4 [OD] Innocent Blood
4 [MR] Mesmeric Orb
3 [AP] Pernicious Deed
3 [TSP] Phyrexian Totem
4 [R] Regrowth
4 [PC] Damnation

// Sideboard
SB: 4 [7E] Engineered Plague
SB: 3 [RAV] Darkblast
SB: 4 [U] Sinkhole
SB: 4 [CHK] Cranial Extraction

Now. We've avoided the creature part of this. And went for a more, anti-creature list. Regrowth continues to be incredible. The Blessings help you out with orb troubles. But Regrowth is basically a tutor in this deck once you get going. Graveyard hate is something you want to be looking out for. If you get a chance to Duress away graveyard hate, then it's probably worth it. At least once you get Orb running. Then you're just on the defense until you can pull of a crippling Echoes.

This list has served me well in the little testing I've done. The totems serve as a second win condition if you aren't finding echoes, plus after you Damnation/Deed the board, swinging for 5 is nice.

The goblins match-up isn't too bad either. Innocent blood saves you early. You can Regrowth on turn 2 if you're needing to deal with a driver or something to keep away early damage. Then you're looking for Discard. The first thing you want to do, is get rid of Ringleader. Extripate is aimed at him as soon as you get the chance. This gets rid of them filling their hand late. This makes Damnation game breaking most of the time. For they've extended into trying to kill you, only to get Wrathed, and Hymned. Now, you drop Orb, and sit back.

Combo isn't too bad either. You have early disruption in the form of: Duress/Hymn/Extripate. You can side out Innocent Bloods for Cranial Extraction. And can side out Damnation for Sinkhole. This allows you to mess with mana bases, and have heavy and disruption. Against Solidarity, you want to try your best to get Cunning Wish with Extripate. Then you wait until you can get a freeze, or Reset. Or something else to slow them down.

Against Threshold, you want to get those Tropical Islands. Wasteland -> Extripate. Force then to play with Basics. Side in Sinkhole to go after the Forest, then they have no way of winning. This also assumes you don't just get to remove their creatures from the game. Innocent Blood -> Extripate on Mongoose is awesome for you. Same on Werebear. Since all your removal isn't targeted. You're good to go against their swingers.

UWb Fish is basically played the same as Threshold. You go after their Tundra's early. And force them to use a mana base that they don't want to run. If you happen to get UGsea's as well. Then you're in good shape, for they have a maximum for 4 lands that can be played now (assuming they run 1 of each basic, and a Scrubland). Beyond this, Deed/Damnation/Hymn. Same old story. Blow up the Board. Over and over until you can Echoes for the game.

Against random decks, you're at least going to be seeing their hand fast, so you can adjust quickly to most decks. Extripate lets you check out their whole library, so you can take some quick notes of any random tech that might be out there to beat you. Getting Extraction targets for game 2-3 is nice a lot of the time as well.

This is also by no means a refined list. The entire list was written up in about one hour. Every card. And all that changed quickly was the sideboard. I think there is room for improvement. But, gotta start trying to make good use of this card.

[Complete_Jank]

Zilla got it right the first time:

Please make this deck and play it in a tournament. I for one would love to be matched up against it.

This thread was not posted to discuss whether or not Extirpate is a good card, but more to try and see if a deck can use it in a winning strategy.

I'll find it funny if a Extirpate deck proves to be strong, and you lose to it.



@Aggro_zombies, posting and saying it sucks doesn't add to this topic.



@C-Aleric, I really like the approach of your deck. It has what I thought would be a good start to a deck. I really like the Orbs in the deck as well. They help in putting cards in the grave, and are a great thought.

I was thinking about splashing a single Mountain or Badland and putting Burning Wish into the deck. You could cut a Haunting Echoes, a Damnation, and something else or just run 2. Then have a Damnation and Haunting Echoes in the side. I also was thinking about Living Wish and having Witness and some other nice stuff in the board. I'll have to test it as is right now.

One card I would love to see make it into the deck is Cabal Therapy. Extirpate looks at their hand so it is another card like Duress, This coming from the board would be nice.

One worry about the deck is against some combo. You have Innocent Blood, Pernicious Deed, & Damnation for 11 cards that are dead against some combo.

[midnightAce]

Then the question becomes, why not play Rock or Truffle or varients? You get more creatures with BoP, Wall, Elder, Witness, etc, which then supplements Therapy, and provide a some what decent match vs. combo.

The problem with the current BG approach is that Echoes does everything Extripate does, is more effective, and can often win games. This approach does NOT address the problem regarding Extripate not affecting board position. Coupled with Duress and Wasteland, Extripate is a decent play, but it does not stop the immediate slaughter of Goblins or Threshold critters, nor does it improve your clock against those decks, nor does it improve your hard quality. The effects of the Extripate is there, but it will almost always be a long term effect, so long that it might not matter in a lot of games. That, is the real issue that you have to focus on.

[Bane of the Living]

I like CA's list. I think it could abuse Eternal Witness and Cabal Therapy tho. You probably dont need retarded amounts of guys to hit with therapies. Witness will probably be enough alongside Exirpate and Duress. Then Extraction. ect.

[Complete_Jank]

C-Aleric, I'm not throwing your deck out the window, but I want to get many different decks in discussion to work with. I won't be able to really get into play testing til after this weekends PTQ, so I want to discuss other decks as well, then I can just sit down with people and proxy up a few different styles of the deck and play test.

What do you think about this?

Lands - 20
4 Bayou
1 Badland
1 Taiga
4 Bloodstained Mire
3 Polluted Delta
1 Mountain
2 Swamp
4 Wasteland

Spells - 34
3 Duress
3 Cabal Therapy
4 Extripate
4 Hymn to Tourach
3 Darkblast
4 Pernicious Deed
3 Regrowth
3 Damnation
3 Burning Wish
4 Dark Ritual

Creatures - 6
2 Eternal Witness
4 Hypnotic Spector

Sideboard
4 Engineered Plague
1 Cranial Extraction
1 Damnation
1 Cabal Therapy
1 Hull Breach
1 Haunting Echoes
1 Regrowth
1 Sinkhole

4 Additional Slots which could include stuff like Meltdown, Pyroclasm, and an additional win condition like Demonfire or Drain Life.