Mono Green Aggro - Stompy

[Gui]

Mono green Aggro, also know as Stompy or speed Green, has already been powerfull on the Legacy enviroment. With the raise of faster aggro decks such as goblins, lock decks such as uba-stax based and 1 turn combo tendrils based decks, it seens like it could no keep being that strong. Thinking on an old build, created by Nicolai Herzog, I've been trying to mod the deck to archieve some better results

---= Stompy, as Built by Nicolai Herzog =---

// Lands
13 Forest
4 Wasteland

// Creatures
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Ghazban Ogre
4 Wild Dogs
3 Rogue Elephant
2 Pouncing Jaguar
4 River Boa
4 Skyshroud Elite
4 Vine Dryad

// Spells
4 Rancor
4 Giant Growth
2 Wild Might
4 Land Grant

// Sideboard
SB: 2 Winter Orb
SB: 2 Cursed Totem
SB: 4 Rushwood Legate
SB: 4 Emerald Charm
SB: 2 Lumbering Satyr
SB: 1 Uktabi Orangutan
--- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---

This deck was based on the ESG's (Elvish spirit Guide's) and the Vine Dryads to try to get as much creatures as possible first turn, sometimes even attacking first turn, as with vine dryad on the draw. The Rancor's and Giant Growth's enabled fast and strong damage, making a 5 turn victory quite possible. The main problem was that this one was not being fast enough, and the hi number of Ghazbán ogre's (toghether with wild dogs) were problems too... If someone play a Swords to Plowshares in a rogue elephant + growth, the loss is much more than what u win: u lost one main creature, a 3 dmg card that will probably be need not to run out of gas, and a forest that is required if you wanna put more creatures down.

All those things made me think on another decks, and here's my personal mod:
---= New Stompy, Deck by Gui myself =---

// Lands
12 Forest

// Creatures
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
2 Rogue Elephant
4 Vine Dryad
3 Scryb Sprites
4 Skarrgan Pit-Skulk
4 Silhana Ledgewalker
4 Skyshroud Elite
4 Ghazban Ogre
3 Pouncing Jaguar

// Spells
4 Rancor
4 Land Grant
4 Might of Old Krosa
4 Wild Might

// Sideboard
SB: 2 Troll Ascetic
SB: 3 Naturalize
SB: 3 City of Solitude
SB: 4 Chalice of the Void
SB: 3 Winter Orb

--- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---

This new build featured some cards that helped against running out of gas, such as more creatures, more Spells, more damage from the spells, and creatures that can't be removed, the Silhana ledgewalker, and if needed, ascetic troll on side, even if it's quite hard for a stompy to play it, with ESG, it's possible to go in at the second turn.
I add also some cards such as Skarrgan pit-skulk and Scryb Sprites that can be much helpfull when there are other creatures on table, and skulk in like the best green creature for MGA, as it can be a 2/2 creature with evasion for the cost of 1 mana. Those Evasion Creatures added enabled the enter of Might of Old Krosa on the deck, such as the use of Wild Might faster and safier.

I'm still working on the Sideboard choices, but for now, it seens to me that Chalice of the void is necessary if you wanna win against first turn combos. Naturalize is quite usefull manny matchs, and in older versions of mine, i featured them MD for the "Jittes" and other stuff.

City of solitude can help in some matchs, together with winter orb against the 43 lands, and negates some cards from the Solidarities.

Well, hope this Post can help increasing the popularity of the Mono Green Aggro Stompy, and also the discussion on it, to make it more competitive, or at least a better deck.

GL & HF you all,
C ya!

[Mordenkain]

I dont want to shoot the deck down, I play stompy myself, but I have a few comments to say.

1. Creatures:
2 Rogue Elephant
3 Pouncing Jaguar
...

Where is Jungle Lion? Its really one of the best stompy creatures together with Silhina and Skarrgan Pit-Skulk.

Where is Qurian Ranger? Ranger is really sick in this deck. It allows you to play less lands as you can function really well, with just one land in play, and it makes it easier for you to play your Troll from the side, which I also think is not good in stompy, since it 3cc, and even 2cc is harsh for stompy.

2 Rogue Elephant? Again with Rangers you should easily be able to play more even though he eats one of your lands. 1cc 3/3 is not to be underestimated.

2. Pump
4 Wild Might

Where is Bounty of the Hunt? And where is good old Giant Growth. In a agro meta like legacy, stompy needs to be able to handle bigger 3/3+ creatures (mostly thres creatures like goose and bear) and without a good amount of pump, your 2/1's and 2/2's will be outmatched quickly by bigger creatures.

And come on... Wild Might is not optimal pump when Giant Growth and Bounty of the Hunt still havent been included.

3. Wrong place.

4 Vine Dryad

Im not a mod, and its not me who should say this, but there is already a discuission about Stompy at here (http://mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4846).
Also if you read those posts, you will find a rather large discussion about wether to include Vine Dryad or not. Personally i dont like it, but have a look for yourself and decide.

Heres my list for reference:

// Lands
9 Forest

// Creatures
4 Quirion Ranger
4 Skarrgan Pit-Skulk
4 Jungle Lion
4 Rogue Elephant
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Skyshroud Elite
4 Silhina Ledgewalker
3 Skyshroud Ridgeback

// Spells
4 Rancor
4 Land Grant
4 Might of Old Krosa
4 Giant Growth
4 Bounty of the Hunt

Over and out
- Mordenkain

[Gui]

I dont want to shoot the deck down, I play stompy myself, but I have a few comments to say.
1. Creatures:
2 Rogue Elephant
3 Pouncing Jaguar
...
Where is Jungle Lion? Its really one of the best stompy creatures together with Silhina and Skarrgan Pit-Skulk.

Well, jungle lion deserves a place in the deck really, maybe instead of ghazbán ogre... and so do manny others as mtenda lion and river boa. I just feel like /2 is better than /1, and it's just a personal opinion.


Where is Qurian Ranger? Ranger is really sick in this deck.

Quirion is good, but when i've to chose what's comming first turn, i prefer to have 3 potential deadly good creatures then an accelerator. he takes a turn to start working, and it's synergy with elephant is questionable, as you can't replay the land you have sac.



since it 3cc, and even 2cc is harsh for stompy.

Well, second turn with 2 manas and a ESG is not that uncommon, and if you are playing for troll, it probably win the game all by itself. so does the silhana, that happens to be the only 2cc+ cards on the deck



2 Rogue Elephant? Again with Rangers you should easily be able to play more even though he eats one of your lands. 1cc 3/3 is not to be underestimated.

As said before, quirion + rogue is not that strong. i would prefer 2 forests instead Quirion + forest if i have a rogue. featuring 9 lands makes your chances on have 2 lands even lower, and if you are to use land grant + Vine (or as you say, + bounty of the hunt), you would not be able to play rogue. Sure rogue is strong, but your worse matchups are the ones that remove your rogue and let you aout of gas. 3 rogue elephant seens ok to me, but still, 2 in the hand means that one is going to be removed for dryad. if it's to be removed anyway, i preffer something that i can actually play, such as jungle lion or pouncing jaguar.



2. Pump
4 Wild Might
Where is Bounty of the Hunt? And where is good old Giant Growth. In a agro meta like legacy, stompy needs to be able to handle bigger 3/3+ creatures (mostly thres creatures like goose and bear) and without a good amount of pump, your 2/1's and 2/2's will be outmatched quickly by bigger creatures.

The point is that i run a fast evasion creatures, such as skragan and scryb. a good, and common oppening is: on the draw, Dryad opp turn, land, krosa, atk with dryad, esg, Skargarn or stuff. This makes 5 dmg first turn, and is worth as it seens. and uses all of your hand stuff.



And come on... Wild Might is not optimal pump when Giant Growth and Bounty of the Hunt still havent been included.

If you are saying that, u've never seen it playing. It's a 5 dmg second turn almost every match, and more damage means less out of gas stuff. Growth is worthless IMO, seal of strengh is a lot better, as you can play it turn 1 to break it turn 2. But even so, it deals 3 dmg for 1 card, krosa deals 4, and might 5. It's a lot of damage more.


3. Wrong place.
4 Vine Dryad
Im not a mod, and its not me who should say this, but there is already a discuission about Stompy at here (http://mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4846).
Also if you read those posts, you will find a rather large discussion about wether to include Vine Dryad or not. Personally i dont like it, but have a look for yourself and decide.

IMO bount is less important the dryad for 2 reasons: It takes you 2 cards to be played and it deals 3 dmg only. Sure it's good, but you'll need the creatures on table to play it, so Dryad is faster, sometimes meaning Skargan 2/2 1 cc with evasion first turn.



Heres my list for reference:

// Lands
9 Forest

// Creatures
4 Quirion Ranger
4 Skarrgan Pit-Skulk
4 Jungle Lion
4 Rogue Elephant
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Skyshroud Elite
4 Silhina Ledgewalker
3 Skyshroud Ridgeback

// Spells
4 Rancor
4 Land Grant
4 Might of Old Krosa
4 Giant Growth
4 Bounty of the Hunt

Over and out
- Mordenkain
4 Rogue running 9 land is almost impossible.
You probably run out of creatures often. You have less creatures and more pumps. you just can't manage it.
Exchange Growth by seal.

[Gui]

I wanna say that i'm sorry if i've placed another topic on the same deck, k.
Maybe it helps the discussion to keep going...
I just wanna ask for help on getting Side options to make this deck more competitive, not just discussing which choice is better, cos manny will say quirion is better, manny will say the bounty is better then dryad, ASF...
IMO, we need to consider the cards that make it better against aggro control and against Faster combos.

So, my choices are always based on speed and making the creatures to survive. That's why playing Vine dryad, high dmg pumps and not playing quirion, as if it's removed, we lose a turn trying out mana.

--Edit--
It seens to me that the other topic and this one has diferent ideias of concept, such as playing a 9 land stompy (or 10, that makes no dif at all), playing quirion ranger, and managing to have tons more pumps, including beserk.
There is a diferent version of stompy that uses 20 - 24 pumps that trys and kills round 2, but that's not my concept here.

[Mordenkain]

I respect the view you have about stompy, but let you know that I really think your making some mistakes as cards like pouncing jaguar and mtenda lion have been for me at least.

If you read the other thread i also states that how to contruct a stompy deck is really a matter of preference outside a few key cards like rancor, esg, pit-skulk, etc.
Stompy is a metagame deck, and should be constructed according to your meta. Also, the list i run is used for beating slower combo decks like solidairy, ugw thres and angel stompy-ish decks, which is what is in my meta. All the pump helps me there, and my no. of creatures is fine against those decks, as none of them plays a lot of removal. If my meta had more agro/gobs i would tend to agree with you on 2/2's rather than 2/1's.
I can say that my list goldfishs turn 4 90% of the time really, occasionally its turn 3 or 5, but its rare. Of course crap draws happen, but thats what you have mulligans for.
Also i think you have misunderstood the idea what i meant with rangers surporting rogues: When you play ranger you can operate under just one land like you had 2, which mean that if you draw two lands, you can play rogue and still have 2 mana each turn + you can do some evil combat tricks by untapping some big dude and instant pump it. Also, Ranger swings to activate pit-skulk. Also, with all the pump i run, if i dont have either a ledgewalker or a skulk down, i usually just pump him so hes still an effective beater.

And about vine dryad, i really thinks it comes down to how many lackeys you have to answer in your meta.

About Wild Might vs. BotH i still disagree with you. But its my personal choice.


It seens to me that the other topic and this one has diferent ideias of concept, such as playing a 9 land stompy (or 10, that makes no dif at all), playing quirion ranger, and managing to have tons more pumps, including beserk.
There is a diferent version of stompy that uses 20 - 24 pumps that trys and kills round 2, but that's not my concept here.
The classic idea of stompy is that of 9 or 10 land stompy, having a fast consistent goldfish. I think both decks qualifies as stompy, but you certainly shouldnt say that the other thread isnt stompy.
Also, about beserk, some people run it, most dont since its, unless combined with another pump, is just a one shot rancor which kill your creature. Personally i dont like it.

- Mordenkain

[Gui]

Not saying that The other version is not a stompy, just comenting that the bestberserk version that i've seen used ornytopter+ESG + petal + pumps and usually won turn 2-3... that's not my intention, as it's more like a combo. Creature aggro consists in having creatures harassing your opponent to death, and it won't help you having 16 pumps if u can't keep your creatures on table.
Jaguar is substituible by Jungle lion or even by Skyshroud ridgeback. It's a 1cc creature, and it depends on you only.
I respect the Quirion choice, as i said, i just don't think 9 lands stompy can feature 4 rogue's when it's already hard to have 'em in the 13 lands version of Nicolai Herzog, that's actually probably the oldest version of stompy.
The point now is that most of those builds can kill 2-5 turns, but they can't stand against an aggro-control deck or against a faster combo deck.

Bout the vine dryad, I had the same opinion bout it, but changed it after some uses... you really should try it out. Bout the Bounty, as i use dryad, like a lot when it answers to lackey, when it atks first turn, when it enters to block 1/1 creature and atack next turn, and when you can have a 3/3 trample with rancor, i won't play bounty. but again, it's personal.

[lukatron2]

ughhh...why don't you go post in the already existing stompy thread instead of making a new one?

[Gui]

ughhh...why don't you go post in the already existing stompy thread instead of making a new one?
Already answer to that. Thanks for the help -.-

[lukatron2]

I wanna say that i'm sorry if i've placed another topic on the same deck, k.
Maybe it helps the discussion to keep going...
I just wanna ask for help on getting Side options to make this deck more competitive, not just discussing which choice is better, cos manny will say quirion is better, manny will say the bounty is better then dryad, ASF...
IMO, we need to consider the cards that make it better against aggro control and against Faster combos.

Omg...are you serious? I'm not really trying to be negative here, but 9 land and 10 land stompy perform just fine in a field of aggro/ aggro control. have you ever actually taken a look at any of the lists?



So, my choices are always based on speed and making the creatures to survive. That's why playing Vine dryad, high dmg pumps and not playing quirion, as if it's removed, we lose a turn trying out mana.

you totally contradict yourself here...if you want to make your creatures survive, you WOULD run Bounty of the Hunt. you ever heard of a card called "pyroclasm"? yea, bounty of the hunt makes you "not die" to that card and although you are loosing two cards, you are often saving 2+ creatures. Also, if your opponent is blocking one of your dudes, you can give him +1+1 to save him, and use the other two counters on another guy to get 2 more damage in here...




Edit--
It seens to me that the other topic and this one has diferent ideias of concept, such as playing a 9 land stompy (or 10, that makes no dif at all), playing quirion ranger, and managing to have tons more pumps, including beserk.
There is a diferent version of stompy that uses 20 - 24 pumps that trys and kills round 2, but that's not my concept here.

Dude, you seriously need to take some time to sit down and read that entire thread. The other thread IS actually open to different lists/discussion if you look and see that people run WAY different lists from eachother on that thread...I'm not saying your list is incompotent or horrible, but wouldn't you think that there is a good reason that people only run 9-10 land in their stompy builds? That is because this deck has been tested for years and people have taken it to tournaments and tested it time and time again against "the gauntlet" and i'm sure if the mana base was that unstable, those people wouldn't be running 9-10 lands (also 4 rouge elephants) and would probably be running 12-13 like you are. if you really look at 9 land stompy you would actually see that it runs most of the same creatures that you do and actually has a really good solidarity/threshold match-up as well as goblins...seriously..put both builds togeather (yours and the standard 9 land build) and goldfish 20 or so games with each and you'll see what i'm talking about.

[vigilante]

I'm still working on the Sideboard choices, but for now, it seens to me that Chalice of the void is necessary if you wanna win against first turn combos.Chalice of the Void seems absolutely terrible in this deck. I can only imagine that you've included it in the sideboard so that you can set it to zero against things like Iggy-Pop. If you set it to one or two, you'll cripple your own game plan, as virtually all of your threats cost 1 or 2.....not to mention that when you've got 2 or 4 mana available (to play Chalice for 1 or 2, respectively), you should have far more useful things to play than a Chalice.

Don't get me wrong -- I love Chalice (an after-effect of playing Faerie Stompy for months), but when I think of Mono-green Stompy in relation to Chalice, I think about playing a Chalice against the Stompy player, not the other way around.

By the way, what are these 'first turn combo' decks you mention? The only decks I can think of that have first-turn kills in Legacy are Belcher (horribly inconsistent) and that Cruel Bargain/Infernal Contract-based Tendrils deck (also horribly inconsistent, plus turn 1 kills are a miracle with that deck).

[emidln]

By the way, what are these 'first turn combo' decks you mention? The only decks I can think of that have first-turn kills in Legacy are Belcher (horribly inconsistent) and that Cruel Bargain/Infernal Contract-based Tendrils deck (also horribly inconsistent, plus turn 1 kills are a miracle with that deck).

Well, when you test with people who know how to play the deck properly, SI is extremely consistent (as are turn 1 kills). Gui did that testing with me, and you might say I know a thing or two about the deck. Chalice would be pretty good against SI and other fast combo decks (TES, Iggy Pop to an extent, Belcher) and if that is his worst matchup then Chalice is a decent way to fix it.

[Gui]

seriously..put both builds togeather (yours and the standard 9 land build) and goldfish 20 or so games with each and you'll see what i'm talking about.

K, no problem man, i know you are not trying to be negative, and you probably have tested 20 times my decklist to be so certain that i'm wrong... The point is not that, the point it that each choice has it reasons, and you are considering only your reasons... wanna play 4 rogue + 9 land, fine by me...I've tested tons of mana bases, and really think it's impossible to play that much rogues with that much lands... i won't retry it. Wanna play BotH, it's ok, it's quite a card. I prefer vine dryad ,that can make unexpected blocks against goblins and stuff, cant attack first turn on the draw, is a creature with resistence 3 on table and can forestwalk.


Now, i've came to some good help (not from u -.-) and changed the list a bit, including fatchies and changing some stuff on the SB and the changed Jaguar for Lions, as it was much claimed:


// Lands
6 [MM] Forest (1)
3 [ON] Wooded Foothills
3 [ON] Windswept Heath

// Creatures
4 [AL] Elvish Spirit Guide
2 [WL] Rogue Elephant
4 [MM] Vine Dryad
3 [A] Scryb Sprites
4 [GP] Skarrgan Pit-Skulk
4 [GP] Silhana Ledgewalker
4 [EX] Skyshroud Elite
4 [5E] Ghazban Ogre
3 [US] Pouncing Jaguar

// Spells
4 [UL] Rancor
4 [MM] Land Grant
4 [TSP] Might of Old Krosa
4 [PY] Wild Might

// Sideboard
SB: 3 [ON] Naturalize
SB: 2 [VI] City of Solitude
SB: 3 [MR] Chalice of the Void
SB: 2 [5E] Winter Orb
SB: 3 [TE] Root Maze
SB: 2 [MR] Troll Ascetic

--Edit
I'll stop posting here, as there are 2 topics on mono green stompy...

[insertnamehere]

Hae you considered using some of the newer stuff like Groundbreaker, Uktabi Drake, Tindermare or even Spectral Force(with Quirion Ranger or the sprite). The only problem I see with your deck is an early Pyroclasm or chalice for 1 or 2.

[Happy Gilmore]

This very Interesting Version of the deck took 4th in an 87 person tournament in Europe on Feb 25 of this year. Other decklists for this tournament can be found here: http://www.germagic.de/dc/event.php?event=Open+Legacy+Madrid

' Stompy ' by César Fernández

17 Forest (http://www.magiccards.info/query.php?cardname=Forest)
4 Berserk (http://www.magiccards.info/query.php?cardname=Berserk)
4 Invigorate (http://www.magiccards.info/query.php?cardname=Invigorate)
4 Might of Old Krosa (http://www.magiccards.info/query.php?cardname=Might+of+Old+Krosa)
4 Rancor (http://www.magiccards.info/query.php?cardname=Rancor)
3 Giant Growth (http://www.magiccards.info/query.php?cardname=Giant+Growth)

4 Silhana Ledgewalker (http://www.magiccards.info/query.php?cardname=Silhana+Ledgewalker)
4 Kavu Predator (http://www.magiccards.info/query.php?cardname=Kavu+Predator)
4 Ghazban Ogre (http://www.magiccards.info/query.php?cardname=Ghazban+Ogre)
4 Jungle Lion (http://www.magiccards.info/query.php?cardname=Jungle+Lion)
4 Skyshroud Elite (http://www.magiccards.info/query.php?cardname=Skyshroud+Elite)
4 Skarrgan Pit-Skulk (http://www.magiccards.info/query.php?cardname=Skarrgan+Pit-Skulk)


Sideboard:
4 Tormod's Crypt (http://www.magiccards.info/query.php?cardname=Tormod%27s+Crypt)
4 Naturalize (http://www.magiccards.info/query.php?cardname=Naturalize)
4 Seedtime (http://www.magiccards.info/query.php?cardname=Seedtime)
3 Viridian Zealot (http://www.magiccards.info/query.php?cardname=Viridian+Zealot)








The interaction between Kavu Predator and Invigorate is what really strikes me a just plain cool. I wonder what might happen if you replaced atleast 4 of the lands with ESG. Seems quite Solid.

[Volt]

The interaction between Kavu Predator and Invigorate is what really strikes me a just plain cool. I wonder what might happen if you replaced atleast 4 of the lands with ESG. Seems quite Solid.

The Kavu Predator + Invigorate thing is pretty cool. It seems like there's too many pump spells in that decklist, though.

[Eldariel]

The Kavu Predator + Invigorate thing is pretty cool. It seems like there's too many pump spells in that decklist, though.

Invigorate+Berserk (especially double) is also pretty brutal, making for a number of turn 2 kills. But yea, Predator+Invigorate is pretty nice. The fact that Predator isn't much good without Invigorate makes him kinda questionable though. I've been liking the BG list with False Cure and Predator to make Skyshroud Cutter and Invigorate both usable, but obviously playing BB-spells in a deck without colourless costs is a pain and makes the manabase very Wasteland-vulnerable.

[Happy Gilmore]

After looking it over I might be tempted to borrow some T2 tech.

-4 berzerk
-3 Forest
+4 ESG
+2 Moldervine Cloak
+1 Giant Growth

This version actually has the manabase to support Cloak (atleast as a 2 of). ESG would speed up the deck quite a bit, not to mention being protection from Daze as well.

At Eldariel,

Kavu predator isn't that bad without Invigorate, it is still a 2/2 trampler for 2 mana.