[Deck] Junk Pile

[Goblin Snowman]

This is a deck that I've been having a large amount of success with, more so due to that fact that no one knows what they're supposed to do against it than anything else I think, but that's irrelevant. This is a 5c Aggro deck that gets to screw itself royally on the mana, abuse Chalice of the Void, and play uber fatties fast. Here's the current list I'm using

4x Wasteland
4x Rishadan Port
4x Ancient Tomb
4x City of Traitors
4x Tendo Ice Bridge
2x Gemstone Mine
3x City of Brass

4x Mox Diamond

3x Masticore
4x Serendib Efreet
3x Erhnam Djinn
2x Sea Drake
4x Flametongue Kavu
3x Call of the Herd

4x Chalice of the Void
2x Trinisphere
2x Sword of Fire and Ice
2x Sword of Light and Shadow
2x Umezawa's Jitte

SB
4x Engineered Plague
4x Armageddon
2x Glowrider
3x Fire Imp
2x Crainial Extraction

Matchups

Solidarity - Favored Pre-Board, Very Favored Postboard
They need to find a Rebuild or you need to be an idiot like me and keep hands with three FTKs. Glowrider doges said Rebuild, the main reason to run it.
-3 Jitte, -4 FTK, -1 SoLS, +4 Armageddon, +2 Crainial Extraction, +2 Glowrider
Postboard you have 4 Armageddons, 2 Trinispheres, 4 Chalice, 4 Glowriders, 4 Port and 2 Extractions, with a fast clock. Unless you keep horrible, horrible hands you should win this one easily.

WGU Threshold - Favored if they don't know what you're doing, Slightly Favored Postboard
Chalice, Glowrider, and Trinisphere can lock them down along with 8 Mana Denial. Most of your creatures beat theirs, so unless Enforcer comes out you outclass them for size. Once they know how to play the MU they can abuse your relative ease of running out of gas.
-1 Jitte, -1 SoFI, +2 Glowrider, OR -3 Jitte, -3 SoFI +2 Glowrider +4 Armageddon, I'm still testing both stratagies. If you know they're bringing in Serenities and Needles, board in Armageddons.
Enforcer is Public Enemy #1, so hope that he never comes up. Other than that, all they have now is Naturlize to answer Chalice. No major changes.

R/W Goblins - Even MU
You have no answer to Lackey outside of broken Tomb and Mox plays, so the MU is really, really, "Who goes first?". An active piece of Equipment usually is game against them, the real problem is if they're running Sparksmiths, STPs, or other forms of removal in addition to Incinerator.
-2 Sea Drake, -1 SoLS, -2 Trinisphere, -2 Glowrider, +4 Plague, +3 Fire Imp
Fire Imp was Pyroclasm, but since a decent player can avoid them if they know you're bringing them in, Fire Imp works better. They bring in Disenchants usually, and sometimes Pyrokenesis, but nothing major to worry about on your side.

Loam Things
Since this is a very wide catagory, I'll just discuss general play that work against all of them. A Wastelock kills you, flat out, no question, so you need a Chalice at 2 as soon as humanly possible. These come down to them being able to get Loam active or you to beat them down with a Flyer and Equipment, due to their large amounts of ways to clog the ground.
-2 Trinisphere, -4 FTK, +4 Armageddon, +2 Crainial Extraction (This can take out their only win Condition or Loam)

R/X Aggro
These come down to how much removal they're running. All of your creatures are way to big for their creatures, but due to you're constant Tombing they will win if the game stretches on. End it as soon as possible.
-1 Serendib, -2 Sea Drake, +3 Fire Imp

Fish U/W (B)
Plays very similar to Thres, except the things that jump in the way of fatties happen to be way smaller. Really like Thres, but usually easier for you. The only thing they might have for removal in addition to STP is Vindicate, but that's rare.
-3 SoFI, +3 Fire Imp

Deadguy - Unfavorable
This MU blows due to the large amount of LD they run. Your manabase is as reliable as a person with ADD on Meth. Getting a fatty cast is a major step, but Shade can kill it unless you hurry.
-2 Sea Drake, -1 FTK, +3 Fire Imp

This deck is a blast to play, good against Solidarity and Thres, and able to hold it's own against Goblins. Also no one will ever know what you're playing until you've done it a few times. When asked, answer,
"Something with Flame-Tongue Kavu, Glowrider, and City of Brass".

[mikekelley]

There just has to be something better than fricken' tendo ice bridge. Looks like a lot of fun to play too.

[Goblin Snowman]

I'd run 9 Tendo if I could. City of Brass ends up hurting a massive amount with Ancient Tombs and Efreets, and hands with Gemstone Mines as the only mana sources (which isn't a problem now, but if I went up to 3-4) are not keepable. The only other replacements could be Grand Colleseium or Forbiddian Orchard, both of which have their own bad drawbacks. GC is alright, but slows you down massively and is useless with City of Traitors tricks.

[vigilante]

Looking at the list, it seems that green and black contribute the least to the deck (in the case of black, that's only true pre-boarding). Is it possible that replacements for Ernham Djinn, Cranial Extraction and Engineered Plague could be found, letting you drop green and black (and hence run Plateaux/Tundras/Volcanic Islands/appropriate fetchlands instead of City of Brass/Gemstone Mine/Tendo Ice Bridge)? I'm just putting the idea out there, and it's pure speculation...I haven't tested anything as yet.

In any case, the deck looks great. Sort of Faerie Stompy-ish, with better creatures, more varied disruption, and vastly more sideboard options. I like it!

[Nydaeli]

I'm wondering whether Glowrider is necessary in the maindeck, since you already have a decent amount of disruption against combo.

You've probably considered it, but a Trinket Mage toolbox a la Faerie Stompy could be really strong in here. Especially since you could theoretically fetch Engineered Explosives and play it with five counters.

[Tacosnape]

This looks fantastic and like a blast to play. Not sure I love Masticore enough for this, but nonetheless the deck looks quite fun.

Tried any manlands in case you stall out?

[kicks_422]

Why not just drop the Glowriders and go to 4 Trinispheres MD? You already have enough beaters anyway.

[Goblin Snowman]

vigilante - There is nothing as good as Erhnam, the only thing close is Juggernaut who dies to Moongoose and effectivly can't block, unless I want to add in Cinder Giant or some such nonsense. I would enjoy having a stabler manabase, but a 3c Base would be more prone to manascrew with the wrong color lands more so than I am already. With no Fetches, I question if that would improve my chances of having Color X when I need it.

Nydaeli - No, Glowrider is pretty bad. On Saturday I was testing him in a major tourney (which I won with this pile, picking up a set of Forces) and his only upside is that he can't be Rebuilt. I'd run 2 more Sea Drakes, or Negators in his place. Trinket Mage is a definite possiblity, but his inability to fetch good land for me makes him less sexy. I suppose I could add in 1 EE, 1 Chrome Mox and a Crypt for him. I'll try testing him and see if his tiny body works out for the deck.

Tacosnape - Masticore beats Thres and Goblins. An active 'Core is nigh indestructible, able to shoot Meddling Magi and all of Goblins, and kill Mystic Enforcer. Plus, he's the best thing that I can easily cast on turn 2 (Tomb + City). I have been looking at Factory (I have run 4 at times) but it comes down to Port or Factory. I have also tried a nutty 4 Factory 4 Nexus in the place of mana denial, but running 8 LD with Trinisphere wrecks Thres so badly, and cuts Goblins off STP.

kicks_442 - The reason I did was because testing showed Solidarity could just Rebuild my stuff and win the next turn. He requires another Cunning Wish to get rid of. However, he would be boarded if played at all next time due to the massive overhating that happened against Solidarity.

[Maveric78f]

I like the pile. Few questions about it :
- Is your gob-like mana disruption worth it ?
- Why the hell are you playing 4*masticore ?
- Did you consider Indrik Stomphowler, at least in SB ?
- Did you try Meloku ? Good with a lot of thing in here : armageddon, city pf traitors, gemstone mine. Very good against goblins. Nice with Mox diamond, ...
- I would play Erhnam Djinn*4. Why don't you ?
- Sea Drake is only good in first hand with a killer start am I wrong ?
- In the SB : you could consider : pyrostatic pillar, rolling earthquake, what is armag for ? Is only to struggle against blue based decks ? Aren't boil, boiling seas or Tsunami better ? I would raise the number of extractions

My main advice (even if I'm not sure to know enough the deck to give a good advice) would be to keep the curve full @4 in order to be able to play pillar in SB. And Meloku is bomb too.

[Cavius The Great]

@Goblin Snowman - Have you considered Thundering Wurm in place of Erhnam Djinn? It comes down a turn sooner and has synergy with Sea Drake. Your manabase can also support it at 25 lands. It might be something to consider.

[Goblin Snowman]

Maveric78f - Yes. The deck can support all the color requirments it needs right now with 13 sources, and Wastelanding someone off White can stop that Swords so you can go lethal. These could be any lands though. Because he can take games by himself against Goblins, shooting off a Goblin a turn and beating for four. And he is good against random decks, giving me more reach for Dark Confidants, Rofellos, Welder, stuff like that. I did, but I can't think of what I'd board him in against. It seemed to me I'd hit my own Equipment, Moxes, Trinispheres and Chalices against most of it, so the only thing he'd come in against is Affinity. Meloku didn't cross my mind when playing the deck, but it could support him. 5cc is rough though, hence the reason Razormane Masticore had to go. The last Djinn was dropped for a 4th Masticore. No, you're right, but with two copies you rarely see him until midgame, allowing you to recur you used up Tendos, City of Traitors, and Mines. Armageddon is for Rifter, Rock, Thres, Solidarity, Loam.dec, any control, stuff like that. Pillar isn't needed with the decent Combo MU usually, since Glowrider beats for two at least and stops them from going off at all, where they can dig for bounce against Pillar. Keeping the curve at 4 means you scoop to Lackey + SCG even on the play.

Cavius The Great - No I haven't yet, since I don't have any. I'll try and pick them up and see, but I might need to add in one more land to support them and Mox Diamond.

[Maveric78f]

Lackey + SGC doesn't ahppen that much often... Moreover, I don't ask to keep only 4CC+ creatures (serendib efreet looks pretty good for instance). Instead of speaking theoratically, here is what my intuition would lead me to do :

-3 Masticore
-2 Sea Drake
-2 Glowrider
+2/3 Meloku
+1 Ernham
+1 trinisphere (turn1 trinisphere is sooo good)
+2/3 Thirst For Knowledge

About pillar :
it's an enchantment, so that the rebuild tech is not enough to get around you. Moreover it's hurting every single deck except you. Control hates pilar. LD hates pillar. Thresh hates pillar. Only gob and burn love pillar (and FS).

[Happy Gilmore]

lol, Meloku would be the uber nutz. I <3 City of Traitors. Besides, talk about t2 synergy with tendo ice bridge and Gemstone Mine. And I dont see why you need all the colors. Cut green entirely, its a waste of time.

[Goblin Snowman]

Maveric78f - Meloku takes until at least turn 3 realisticly, is easily burned away for its CC, and slows me excessively. It looks like it would be bad for the same reasons Faerie Stompy doesn't run it. Yes, turn one Trinisphere is good, but Glowrider on Turn one is debatably better against Thres and Solidarity, as is Sea Drake on turn one. Why on earth would you ever cut Masticore? Ever. That card, dispite it's drawback, is the best card against Goblins, better than FTK (Who is almost always Incinerated), and Thres cannot deal with it outside of Swords or a single Enforcer, who will trade with it unless you have 6 mana. TFK is debatable, but I would rather run Looter with only 12 Artifacts, most of which I really want to keep around. Also, neither of them do anything to affect the board in a meaningful way right then, a major downside against Goblins. Pillar; I've brought myself down to 3 life against Solidarity, I don't need to be any more suicidal than City of Brass, Tomb, and Efreet. And it's not like I'm hurting for more Combo hate.

Happy Gilmore - Well, I could cut a color, but since the manabase would not change, and I get something better in green than in any other color, I'm not sure why I would. Unless you are referring to using Duels for my manabase, an issue I've already talked about being bad since I would be even more prone to manascrew.

I'm going to say this right now - The worst thing for the deck is a large amount of Creature removal; To help this problem, I have been forced to add in subpar creatures in the place of other cards, most notably Glowrider replacing Trinisphere, so you would need a good reason for me to cut any. Meloku is slow, oh so slow, and not likely to be "the uber nutz". I will try using Meloku in an upcoming tourney this Wednesday, in the place of Glowriders. I'll talk more about it then.

[Bane of the Living]

Have you looked into any of the guys from Invasion block with the double color kickers? This is the mancer cycle right? If I remember correctly Anavolver and Decavolver were pretty bad ass. The red one gives precious life gain.

[Tacosnape]

Have you looked into any of the guys from Invasion block with the double color kickers? This is the mancer cycle right? If I remember correctly Anavolver and Decavolver were pretty bad ass. The red one gives precious life gain.

Volvers would require a manabase overhaul, I would think. Every creature in this deck can be played off a single colored mana, and right now a lot of its colored sources are coming from the one-shot Tendo Ice Bridge. Paying colored kickers here doesn't seem like a great idea.

[Goblin Snowman]

If creatures that took two colored mana were playable in this, Loxodon Hierach, Ravenous Baloth, Mystic Enforcer, Spiritmonger, Exalted Angel, Yukora the Prisoner, Arc Slogger and many other cards would be opened up for playing with. I believe that Loxodon Hierach and Baloth would both be fantastic, however, you can almost never cast them.

[Bane of the Living]

Paying Tendo Ice Bridge here doesn't seem like a great idea.

Fixed for truth. You really need to replace this. City of Brass would be more playable as a 4 of if you were to sqeeze some spirit linked fatties into the deck. Yes Im looking at you, you cross dressing elephant.

[Tacosnape]

If creatures that took two colored mana were playable in this, Loxodon Hierach, Ravenous Baloth, Mystic Enforcer, Spiritmonger, Exalted Angel, Yukora the Prisoner, Arc Slogger and many other cards would be opened up for playing with. I believe that Loxodon Hierach and Baloth would both be fantastic, however, you can almost never cast them.

You know, hypothetically, if you could just narrow this down to three colors, you could probably take your 9 slots for color-producing lands and run 9 dual lands in a 3/3/3 arrangement, giving you 10 maindeck ways to hit any given color. (6 Duals and 4 Mox Diamonds) This -might- give you a little better position on things like Loxodon Hierarch. If nothing else, it would get you away from Tendo Ice Bridge. (Although, I have to say, I don't see what's all that wrong with Tendo Ice Bridge here aside from a hand full of colored spells.)

I love red in this deck, as FTK and Fire Imp (Nice tech, btw) are solid for removal in a deck that otherwise lacks it. Green gives you access to Erhnam Djinn, Call of the Herd (Where's that at, btw? Seems fantastic for this deck. I ran it in my U/G Chalice), and so forth. Blue gives you the amazing Serendib and Sea Drake. White gives you Glowrider, Armageddon, and half of Loxodon Hierarch. Black gives you Engineered Plague and that's about it.

I would guess if you had to make the cuts it would be white and black or possibly green and black though, meaning doing the whole thing for Loxodon Hierarch would be pointless.

[FallenOmnipotent]

I know I'll sound like a newb, but you might want more sword of light and shadows as opposed to fire/ice. It seems like you desperately need life more than card draw. And shadow does bring a creature back (that's what your trying to archive with the card draw usually anyways.

[Vardaman]

I kind of like the sound of Call of the Herd in this.

The lifegain from Loxodon Hierarch would be nice but you'd really have to fuck with the mana base to play him.

[Maveric78f]

I would insist on the bigger utility of SoLS over SoFI.
- Most of your creatures are strong in toughness, so that once equipped the only efficient anti-creatures are STP or black ones (ghastly demise, terror, vindicate, ...)
- As you said, your main problem is to keep a creature on the field. Raising dead your creatures is a better tech than drawing in this case.
- Of course the life gain is of first importance here as you play a lot pain lands.

I tried the deck in MWS. It's that kind of decks that cna't be played with MWS shuffler : first game :
- I eventually draw 4*tendo ice bridge + 3*gemstone mine and 2*mow diamond before drawing any other land (only my colored mana base is different from the one of goblin snowman : I play 4*tendo + 4* gemstone + 1*city of brass)
- I eventually draw 4 of my 6 equipments although I have drawn only 3 creatures.
My next game gave me once more very early 2*mox diamond and more remarkable the only lands I've drawn were the 2 mana producing (4 or 5 of them).

I'll try a bit more but I know by experience that some decks can't be played on MWS.

[Kyachi]

I'm onboard with the Sword of Light and Shadow idea as well. In this instance, you have plenty of damage coming one way or the other, so the Fire bit from SoFaI isn't huge, and the card draw is kind of negated by returning a creature from the GY. You'd often time be looking for another creature off of the Ice draw anyways. The protection from swords and so forth would be really nice and probably better than the pro red as you're already immune to lightning bolt from the +2/+2 and they would need a fairly large cycled Gempalm to deal with the creature, at which point you probably have bigger problems.

Ditto remarks about CotH. I don't know how we missed that.

[Cavius The Great]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but how is Sword of Light and Shadow better than Umezawa's Jitte?

[Goblin Snowman]

A few reason, namely Needle doesn't hurt it after it's on a guy, said guy is Pro-Swords, Mystic Enforcer, and Exalted Angel, it gives +2/+2 the turn it's on a guy, and it Raise Deads a guy. And I can't cast Jitte with Chalice at two, which has come up a few times.

The reasons for SoFI are many, but they were in the list to start for helping the Goblins MU with Juggernauts and other things that could be more easily killed, and for more reach. With FTK in the MD and Fire Imp in the board, I think I am going to at the very least tun SoLS as a two of. ALso, funny story - Playing againts WGU Thres, he Maged my singleton copy of SoLS, knowing it was a singleton, saying "I can't win if that thing gets active, my only outs are Swords and Enforcer".

Call of the Herd is now in, I'll change the starting list to reflect this

-1 Erhnam Djinn, -2 Glowrider, +3 Call of the Herd. If I have good results with it (meaning I don't miss the 4/5 in the Thres MU) the number might increase.

[Kyachi]

In the thresh MU, I'd rather have a two 3/3's to wear equipment than one 4/5 that comes online a turn later (although I realize that is very relative with the double lands). Also, SoLS isn't Legendary, so you wouldn't want to say, run two more Jittes, but you can comfortably run two more SoLS's.

[Cavius The Great]

I didn't realize he was already running 3 Jittes. I would definite cut a Jitte for a SoLS, now that it dawned upon me. I'd definitely go with a 2/2 split.

[Vardaman]

Hey, how have you liked CotH so far?

[Goblin Snowman]

Call worked out, and I am likely to drop the fourth Masticore for the third CotH.

[Lego]

-1 Erhnam Djinn, -2 Glowrider, +3 Call of the Herd. If I have good results with it (meaning I don't miss the 4/5 in the Thres MU) the number might increase.


Call worked out, and I am likely to drop the fourth Masticore for the third CotH.

Anyone else confused?

[Goblin Snowman]

Anyone else confused?

Yeah, I decided at the last minute to keep the Erhnam in. The first post has been edited to reflect this.

[Cavius The Great]

Yeah, I decided at the last minute to keep the Erhnam in. The first post has been edited to reflect this.

Is there any reason to run Erhnam over...let's say... Thundering Wurm? a 4/4 body for 3 seems like it could have it's benefits. Especially since you can get one down on the first turn.

[Kyachi]

There is if you desperately need to hit land drops in order to maintain pressure. If you aren't worried about casting more spells, then no. Personally, between pitching to Mox Diamond and this guy I could envision more than one missed land drop.

[Cavius The Great]

@Goblin Snowman - Have you considered Stonecloaker? It seems like it would work wonders with FTK along with a 3/2 flying body to boot.

[Nydaeli]

I think Erhnams should probably be cut so you can max out on Drakes and Calls. Your 4cc slot is already fairly clogged, with 4 FtK and 3 Masticore, not to mention all the equipment.

Besides, you don't want Suleiman's Legacy to wreck you too badly. :wink:

[Goblin Snowman]

@Goblin Snowman - Have you considered Stonecloaker? It seems like it would work wonders with FTK along with a 3/2 flying body to boot.

Actully, yes, but most of the time I want to be tapping out on my turn for creatures or equipment, or Porting them during their upkeep. He is also very bad alone, and with Call of the Herd, although he is a possiblity for a sideboard option against Loam.dec, Iggy Pop, and Thres.

[Cavius The Great]

Ok Snowman, I recently have done some goldfishing with the deck on MWS a bit. I found that you run too many colorless land. I found myself stuck with no colored mana to cast spells with. I'm not sure if it's just my luck or what but it's something that I've noticed with the deck. I also found myself pitching cards to masticore that I rather be casting. I suggest upping the count of Sea Drake to 4 so that you can "feed" the Masticore useless land. I'm not sure if it's my luck or what, but goldfishing with the deck on MWS makes me question your build. No offense, but I have no idea how your deck did so well. It must be me, cuz numbers don't lie, atleast far as I know they don't.

[Kyachi]

Either that or as a noted earlier, the MWS shuffler sucks. Or you lack the experience with it necessary to play it. Masticore pitches are very intuitive and some people just are never comfortable with the card. Going up to 4 Sea Drakes seems kind of a bad idea to me, mostly because there are a million things that I would rather topdeck later in the game when you'd want to be returning lands to ditch to Masticore. Sea Drake's effectiveness is limited to very early turns, especially since if you don't use a Mox to cast it and you run into a removal spell you may as well scoop up the rest of your cards for the tempo you've lost. In my opinion, it is one of the most questionable cards in the deck and if it didn't fly I don't think it should be in there.

And numbers do lie. Ask the White House.

[Cavius The Great]

Experience has nothing to do with it. This is by far one of the most simplest decks to play. I really think it's the MWS shuffler because I have been getting god awful draws with the deck.

[FallenOmnipotent]

Well, this post will be pretty irrelevant as of now sense black-creature-based decks aren't very popular right now (I can only think of RB Death which wouldn't want to block anyways) but Razorjaw Oni is an option ... makes your creatures essentially unblockable ...

(Yeah, pretty useless and random post, but just throwing it out there)

Another advantage of inceasing Sea Drake's count would be the ability to re-use tendo and Gemstone mine. --My 2 cents.

[Kyachi]

Razorjaw Oni is an option ...

Funny story, there was an incarnation with this in it.

[Maveric78f]

In what Oni would be better than erhnam ? You will often need to be able to block with your creatures.

I was looking at your list in page1. How do you plan to win against gob ? IT looks irrealistic to have a list like this nowadays. Only plague is a good answer to gob but as you'll probably lose the first, you'll have few chance to be able to win the overall.

I think that some 5CC creatures must be considered :
- meloku : already talked about it but it's really great against gob and your colored mana supplier beg for it. It's kind of combo with armag.
- Covetous dragon : I'm not sure you run enough artifacts for it though.
- indrik stomphowler : just an old idea. In SB only.

Pyroclasm and/or rolling earthquake should be auto included stuff.

Your creatures miss evasion to be able to carry a sword (SoFI or SoLS) efficiently. I would even consider loxodon warhammer instead of SoFI.

[FallenOmnipotent]

Against a black deck, your creatures would become unblockable with Oni. Oni is also your only black creature which means it's the only creature in your deck that can't block. So in this very rare situation (as mentioned before) it would be better than erhnam.

[Kyachi]

I was looking at your list in page1. How do you plan to win against gob ? IT looks irrealistic to have a list like this nowadays. Only plague is a good answer to gob but as you'll probably lose the first, you'll have few chance to be able to win the overall.

I hope you're joking. Being able to make 3/3's, 3/4's and 4/3's turn one is fairly good, seeing as all you have to worry about is a 1/1 coming at you. In addition to that FtK comes online as early as turn two. Also, if you're on the play turn one chalice or trinisphere is a time walk or two. Jitte, SoFaI, blah, blah, blah, words, words, words.

@Fallen Omnipotent- Even if (by black decks I'm going to assume you mean Pikulaesque decks, if I'm wrong, correct me) black creature decks come back, what creature would you be worried about blocking you? Your guys kill all of theirs with the exception of a burly Nantuko Shade. I'd rather that they block and lose a Dark Confidant or Hypnotic Specter.

[Tacosnape]

Either that or as a noted earlier, the MWS shuffler sucks.


Experience has nothing to do with it. This is by far one of the most simplest decks to play. I really think it's the MWS shuffler because I have been getting god awful draws with the deck.

Technically, if you dissect the program and look at the code, there isn't anything wrong with the MWS shuffler. It's completely accurate and completely random. Completely Random just makes for a lot of bad hands with decks that are especially prone to bad hands, like every Chalice Aggro deck in existence.

The variance between the MWS Shuffler and real life comes with the fact that people pile-shuffle and do everything in their power to get the mana unclumped and keep their hands less than truly random.

More on topic, all Chalice Aggro decks suffer from bad hand streaks. It was the reason I gave up on Faerie Stompy eventually in favor of a colorless build. I must admit I'm tempted to try this deck though.

[Cavius The Great]

Maybe it's because I didn't play enough games. I just played a few hands on MWS this morning and I've been getting amazing draws. I stand corrected, I'm really liking this deck now. :wink:

[Goblin Snowman]

In what Oni would be better than erhnam ? You will often need to be able to block with your creatures.

I was looking at your list in page1. How do you plan to win against gob ? IT looks irrealistic to have a list like this nowadays. Only plague is a good answer to gob but as you'll probably lose the first, you'll have few chance to be able to win the overall.

I think that some 5CC creatures must be considered :
- meloku : already talked about it but it's really great against gob and your colored mana supplier beg for it. It's kind of combo with armag.
- Covetous dragon : I'm not sure you run enough artifacts for it though.
- indrik stomphowler : just an old idea. In SB only.

Pyroclasm and/or rolling earthquake should be auto included stuff.

Your creatures miss evasion to be able to carry a sword (SoFI or SoLS) efficiently. I would even consider loxodon warhammer instead of SoFI.

I'm close to 50/50 against Goblins Pre-Board if they don't know how to play against me. The most deadly move they can make is being on the play with Lackey and SCG, and the weak manabase is very easy to disrupt. That being said, they can almost never Incinerator you blockers to get it through, and with Equipment you should be able to take the game, rediculous top decks and other things they can do being ignored. 5cc stuff, aka stuff that comes down to late to matter usually against 8 Mana Denial, is pretty powerful, although Razormane Masticore in the place of normal Masticore was once done. He is pretty hard to cast, so he was cut dispite his sheer power. Swords gives +2/+2, making them larger than Werebears and out of Incinerator/Double Blocking range usually.

[Maveric78f]

I hope you're joking. Being able to make 3/3's, 3/4's and 4/3's turn one is fairly good, seeing as all you have to worry about is a 1/1 coming at you. In addition to that FtK comes online as early as turn two. Also, if you're on the play turn one chalice or trinisphere is a time walk or two. Jitte, SoFaI, blah, blah, blah, words, words, words.

Oh yeah 3/3 on turn 1 is good but it doesn't happen often... You have only 1 answer to a turn1 lackey : mow diamond. And even having a mox diamond is not the only the condition : you need 2 lands, 1 of them is a 2mana provider and a 3CC creature. All in it it never happens and the FTK turn 2 is even more rare.

I did some testing today with a slightly different list :

// Lands
4 [TE] Wasteland
4 [EX] City of Traitors
4 [TE] Ancient Tomb
4 [MM] Rishadan Port
4 [WL] Gemstone Mine
1 [AN] City of Brass
4 [BOK] Tendo Ice Bridge

// Creatures
2 [CHK] Meloku the Clouded Mirror
2 [AN] Erhnam Djinn
4 [AN] Serendib Efreet
4 [PS] Flametongue Kavu
4 [TSB] Call of the Herd

// Spells
4 [SH] Mox Diamond
4 [MR] Chalice of the Void
4 [DS] Trinisphere
3 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
3 [DS] Sword of Light and Shadow
1 [FD] Crucible of Worlds

// Sideboard
SB: 4 [P3] Rolling Earthquake
SB: 3 [7E] Engineered Plague
SB: 2 [P3] Ravages of War
SB: 1 [B] Armageddon
SB: 2 [UL] Defense Grid
SB: 3 [CHK] Cranial Extraction

My remarks :
- The deck has clearly some potential. But my list needs a lot more tuning too.
- I've been liking playing the crucible
- I've almost never regretted to play SoLS over SoFI. However the "raise dead ability" is not really significant. The main advantage comes from the life gain (but 3 per turn is not that much) and the protection. Most of the decks playing jitte play only white or black creature (except FS). Maybe playing 4*jitte+ 2*SoLS is the best option.
- I'm not fan of FTK. Very often, I can play it (no other creature in play) and it's very frustrating. But that's true, on MWS the meta is very random and you have to adapt this slot with your tourney meta (and it's often aggro).
- Meloku is too slow. You guys convinced me (or maybe I just had to see it myself).
- I never regretted to have crucible in hand. A second one is discussable.
- Efreet is the best creature and CoTH is also very precious because it's a 2 for 1 card. Erhnam can be also very good against thresh and friends but having no evasion and being 4CC makes it suboptimal.
- Rishadan port is too often useless. I would replace them with wolrath's stronghold*1, ruins of academy*1, city of brass*1 and crucible*1.

As replacement of meloku, erhnam and maybe some FTK, I'm not satisfied with the creatures proposed :
- masticores : I changed my mind, the creatures ahve to be 3CC because of the curve : 3CC I play a creature, 4 or 5CC I play an equipment and I equip. Moreover they have no evasion, they generate to much card disadvantage.
- sea drake : why not but they are maybe too fragile to my mind. And blue hate is too present to multiply blue creatures.
- oni : I continue thinking that black creatures are not a problem. Although, not being able to block with your single creature may be a huge problem.

Idea : I'd like to have an artifact creature : searchable with academy ruins AND wolrath's stronghold.
- yotian soldier : don't laugh, vigilance is good with jitte + 4 in defense is pretty interesting, only 3CC.
- steel golem, phyrexian warbeast, ironfoot : not playable to my mind
- Silent arbiter : very very good. I love this idea as we usually have the biggest creature into play.

I propose for 16 slots :
4*CoTH
4*efreet
3*FTK
2*Yotian soldier
3*Silent arbiter

[jamest]

Technically, if you dissect the program and look at the code, there isn't anything wrong with the MWS shuffler.
I want to see this for myself. Where can I find the source code for the MWS shuffler?

[Tacosnape]

I want to see this for myself. Where can I find the source code for the MWS shuffler?

I thought it was somewhere on The Source, actually. Maybe it was elsewhere. I'll have to dig it up again.

[Maveric78f]

It's empirically proven that the MWS shuffler is biased. The average number of lands is higher than IRL and the variance is also higher. I'm a PhD student in probabilistics and I know what I mean.

I know an article demonstrating this bias but it's in french.

[lukatron2]

the MWS shuffler was designed for 40 card decks...so thats why it is F*cked up and thats why it isn't random

[kicks_422]

Any plans on changing the deck name? Junk Pile sounds so... janky...

Maybe 5CS (5-color stompy)?... I was thinking about Rainbow Stompy, but it sounded too much like a candy.

[FallenOmnipotent]

I nominate "Hulk Smash"
Cause that green guy is green, and so is the Hulk. And the deck goes ... mana, mana, mana SMASH!@#$1!

[Jaynel]

Hulk Smash was the name of a Gro-a-Tog deck in Vintage a few years back.

Rainbow Stompy sounds fine.

[lukatron2]

I think that "junk pile" sounds pretty sweet actually...it gives the deck some character and you can distinguish it from other decks...

[Goblin Snowman]

I say we call the deck Venerable Monk :smile:.

In relevant things, I just picked up a playset of Sea Drakes for $60 (Go Ebay!), so those are going up. Playing the Solidarity MU with Kyachi today, a heftly amount of Pre-Board and postboard, I'm really missing Glowriders. I know that I really have said they are bad, but Solidarity needed to find 2 Cunning Wishes to go off really slows the $hit out of them, more so when they can't dig very well. I'm going to play a few more games tomorrow, and see if I prefer them or Extractions. Extraction might be falling within the danger of cool things area, only time will tell.

[Tacosnape]

I think that "junk pile" sounds pretty sweet actually...it gives the deck some character and you can distinguish it from other decks...

QFT. Junk Pile's one of the best deck names I've seen on here.

[Tacosnape]

Okay. So I've been tinkering around with this deck a good bit, and I thought I'd suggest some potential cards and see what the general thought is.

1. Prismatic Lens. It's acceleration, permanent color fixation, and it's an excellent turn one play if you don't have a Chalice or the three mana Mox/Land combo. Even better after Armageddon.

2. Juggernaut. Power 5 for 4, you'll usually drop him pretty quickly. He's a fierce beater who's easy on the color scheme.

3. Phyrexian Negator. I stuck a single Negator in my deck out of boredom. I think I like him in here. I tend to be the god of drawing ridiculous amounts of Tomb/Mox openings, so I figure it's as close as I can get to having an Anwar-tastic opening play.

4. Emblazoned Golem. Possibly unplayable based on the current mana configuration, but intriguing. I ran him in my UG Chalice build back in the day (God, I feel old for saying "Back in the day.") He served the dual purpose of being a solid 1/2 to stick in front of a Lackey, and being a decent midgame beater with multiple colors and mox diamonds. I commonly dropped him at 3/4, and sometimes at 4/5.