[Deck] Rebels [Archive]

Radley

02-28-2007, 08:24 PM

I just thought i should bring this deck back into legacy because i remember playing against a blue/green threshold deck and won each game. This deck is a pain in the arse for mono blue control and blue/green threshold. This deck is not actually fast. Against other creature decks, this deck becomes a sort of control deck. I think this deck can be turned into a mono whte control deck by adding more wrath of god, more armageddon, abeyance, swords to plowshares

this is my first proper deck:

rebels 22

3 lin sivvi, defiant hero
4 ramosian sergeant
3 ramosian lieutenant
3 defiant falcon
3 whipcorder
3 steadfast guard
1 defiant vanguard
1 nightwind glider
1 thermal glider

Support creatures 6

4 mother of runes
2 masticores

Spells 10

4 armageddon
2 wrath of god
2 prismatic strands -
2 disenchant

Lands 22

4 gaea's cradle
1 thawing glacier
17 plains

Card's uses:

Lin Sivvi, defiant hero - i just love her. putting your dead rebel back in the library then recruit. only 3 because it costs alot.

ramosian sergeant - i used 4 becuase it's really useful

ramosian lieutenant - i chose this over amrou scout because of the 2 toughness

defiant falcon - it has flying and can search for lin sivvi

whipcorder - nice for tapping roar of the wurm and other hard to kill creatures

steadfast guard - good creat that can attack and can still block

defiant vanguard - good enough to block big creatures without trample, dies and then lin sivvi revives it

nightwind and thermal glider - these 2 usually wins the game for me, they fly weee. I used to use 2 of each but i guess 1 of each will do, you don't cast it, you recruit them.

mother of runes - imagine a 1/1 that blocks a 6/6 roar of the wurm. It gives your creatures protection.

masticore - with gaea's cradle, this is teh bomb. This is one of the win condition

armageddon - should i remove this card? This is just a win more situation isnt it? Or maybe this can also be a pain in the arse for combo and control decks.

Wrath of god - WoG then cast a recruiter FTW?

prismatic strands - ye cheap card :laugh: it should've been reverent mantra - and hey, this helped me alot against other aggro deck, let them attack with all their creature then use this then you can attack :laugh:

disenchant - just in case against pithing needle. Is there a card more usable than this card?

gaea's cradle - really nice for this deck

thawing glacier - best deck thinner i think.

CARDS THAT I WILL ADD:

+4 swords to plowshares, -2 prismatic strands, - 2 armageddon
+4 chrome mox, -2 gaea's cradle, -2 plains
+3 holy knight of nimbus, - 3 steadfast guard
+2 umezawa's jitte, -2 masticore

CARDS CONSIDERED:

mox diamond - because if i already have a recruiter in play, i don't cast anymore

exalted angel - win condition?

abeyance - useful card but i don't know what to remove.

tithe - I know it thins the deck but i don't really know if i need this

amrou scout - I love ramosian lieutenant more because 1/2 is good against engineered plague

knight of the holy nimbus - I don't know if i should put this instead of steadfast guard- probably yes.

possible mix
green? for crop rotation? - Nah, Birds of paradise? Llanowar elves?
blue for control - Possible
red for more dmg and removals? - possible but not as good as sligh i think
black? - more rebels and removals although nothing can be better than Swords to plowshares and wrath of god. Extirpate? Dark rituals? Duress?

SB:

2 disenchant
4 defense grid
4 pithing needle
4 tivadar's crusade
i don't know any other SB. lol

I'll also make a mono white control deck with rebels on it.

edgewalker

02-28-2007, 08:33 PM

Radley

02-28-2007, 08:47 PM

lol.. i remember, recently i played against it and my opponent eventually letting me draw for his standstill :laugh: i almost laughed

I just don't know if blue/white rebel control will be any good in legacy.

Cait_Sith

02-28-2007, 09:55 PM

WU Rebel Control would be another Aggro-Control deck, so it doesn't inherently suck. I would say try it, I ran Combo Rebels for a while and it was funny.

Rebels tend to be land hungry so I would drop Armageddon since it runs too much of a risk to kill your own ability to create an army (remember most rebels aren't too aggressively costed because of their ability to come out in endless numbers)

Yes use Knight of the Holy Nimbus. It is hard to kill while being a well costed creature.

I would drop Thawing Glaciers because of how slow it is. Being an endless tutor is good, but it takes over 4 turns for it to turn a profit in terms of mana and tempo.

If I ran Chrome Mox I would run 19-20 lands, but not 18. Chrome is best in a hand with a land or two (your deck really wants the two) and you provided R/g Gobs a good target for its Hooligan, so I would have backup just in case.

Radley

02-28-2007, 10:31 PM

Correction: chrome mox's imprint is nonland, nonartifact. you might be referring to mox diamond :tongue:

I use armageddon before putting gaea's cradle in play so that recruiting doesn't stop. I also has 1 thawing glacier so armageddon is ok. well i guess you are trying to point out that thawing glacier is a dead card, I think it can be removed then for eternal dragon. Depriving your opponent with mana is always good.

Cait_Sith

02-28-2007, 10:37 PM

I know how Chrome Mox works. If you ran Mox Diamond I would say run 22 lands.

Thawing Glaciers is just too slow. If you drop it as soon as possible after using Armageddon, it will take about 3-4 turns to make a difference.

Radley

02-28-2007, 10:38 PM

I remember standstill was kinda cool with this deck since you can tutor rebels under it. It would also open up some control cards and brainstorm. Stifle would be good to since it helps out in so many situations.

Actually, you can splash blue for standstill but wasteland users will be happy.

Standstill behind the rebels:
It will be like +4 standstill, +4 tithe, +2 eternal dragon, +4 tundra, +4 hallowed fountain. And maybe add some wastelands.

rishadan port is also helpful and/or wasteland.

parallax

03-01-2007, 04:37 AM

I would definitely cut the Wrath of God and the Armageddon. Wrath is going to hit too many of your own creatures.

Knight of the Holy Nimbus is really good.

Put four Aether Vial into the deck.

Radley

03-01-2007, 04:58 AM

I would definitely cut the Wrath of God and the Armageddon. Wrath is going to hit too many of your own creatures.

Knight of the Holy Nimbus is really good.

Put four Aether Vial into the deck.

Aether vial is great. Although i don't think you really need it becuase you will just recruit from library anyway. It helps though.

Wrath of God is good if your opponent is a creature deck and you're losing. Cast WoG and then cast a rebel recruiter, you get the upperhand.

armageddon is great against control decks or combo decks so i guess it'll just go to sideboard? or still in maindeck? I have gaea's cradle in deck so casting armageddon then play gaea's cradle is great. This usually wins me game.

Rastadon

03-01-2007, 06:06 PM

Radley

03-02-2007, 04:49 AM

You really need Vial though. You're not going to have the mana to play out your hand and recruit at the same time. It'll dump your hand like no other. Though don'[t know how effective Cradle is here. But it's not like you've got something that absolutely needs to be played turn 1 anyways. Sarge can be played turn 2 without any major loss.

Thirteen recruiters? You only need one recuiter per game, excluding permission. But thirteen? I'd rather have muscle in hand and pay for it normally than pay extra off of a recruiter. Knight of Holy Nimbus would be a great substitute.

This is a rebel deck, having only 4 recruiters will make the deck suck.. try playing this deck to see what i mean. Maybe you want a deck like:

4 ramosian sergeant, 4 whipcorder, 4 knight of holy nimbus, 4 savannah linos, 4 isamaru, hound of konda, 4 white knight or the one with prot red? That would be different deck. I'm going to try this deck in MWS then to see if this is effective then i'll probably try mixing blue for permission and standstill

Radley

03-02-2007, 06:38 AM

Tried against a recurring nightmare/survival of the fittest. STP helped alot, especially against Reya dawnbringer :D . could've won if only i saw fear in opponent';s creature, i got a whipcorder out which is already tapped :cry: i'm just abit new in MWS so i always do stupid things. But in general, Rebel can win against recursion decks.

Radley

03-02-2007, 06:20 PM

played against a white winnie, or probably a deck with the "karakas, mangara, rishadan port, aether vial deck". After i recruit some rebels my opponent said to me "you win, i can't stop you". Gotta try this deck more. I will add aether vial to see if it will be better.

Atwa

03-03-2007, 11:03 AM

Wow, nice triple post. You do know where to find the edit button, do you?

Let me think:
A creature deck which needs lots af mana to work, and you are running armageddon?
A creature deck which only engine are the creatures itself, and you are running Wrath of God?
Gaea's Cradle in a mono-white deck? as a 4 of? I wouldn't even run 4 in mono-green.
The format is 20% Goblins and you still pack only 1x Termal Glider?

There are lot's more things wrong whit this deck, but believe me when I say, Rebels is a waste of time in Legacy. Did you ever see it finish high in old extended? No, since the deck is slow as hell.

Legacy is a few turns faster than exteded ever was, I don't think you can ever win even a small tournament with this deck.

In your first 2 turns, you can play a Sergeant, and a Falcon:
- Goblin will have Lackey, Siege Gang and Piledriver on the board by that turn.
- TES will have won at that time.
- Solidarity will gladly wait until you've recruited enough rebels to make a lethal assault (turn 8/9) and combo off.

I don't want to preach what you should do, but if I were you, I'd pick up some other deck to build/play, since rebels's only positive matchup (and I'm not even sure about that) is going to be UGw Threshold.

Pinder

03-03-2007, 11:17 AM

Aven Riftwatccher (from PC) seems like it would be fun. At least, it was really fun recruiting him into play in TS limited.

Also, if you splash black, you should be running Blightspeaker. When you're not searching, you might as well be timming it up.

Also, Amrou Seeker is a rebel. White ph34r FTW.

C.P.

03-03-2007, 11:53 AM

I tried rebel in legacy for a while, an only way that it can be good is UW aggro control. Standstill is a good choice, and things like Brainstrom is absolutely nuts, too.

I know that cradle is good, but running 4 is a bit too much, also, this deck wants lots of land, and I'm not sure if you have much board contorol to justify 4 geddon. I would suggest making it into counterebel with some board control. Things like WoG is not as bad as it looks in the deck. And Isn't the new timespiral 2/1 searcher better than the falcon since it is a decent beatstick?

Try a single Law/Lightbringer, too. It works.

So here is my suggestion - a very rough list

3 Llin sivvi, Defiant hero
4 Ramosian Sergeant
3 Ramosian Lieutenant
4 Amrou Scout
1 Whipcorder
1 Lawbringer
1 Defiant vanguard
1 Thermal glider

3 Umezawa's zitte

4 Brainstorm
4 Swords to Plowshears
4 Rule of law
2 spell Burst
4 Mana Leak
3 Daze

3 Gaea's Cradle
4 Flooded strand
4 Tundra
6 Plains
5 Island

Dunno... Something like that? My old list ran thing like FoW and stuff, but it ran 16 rebels, so it wasn't much of rebels.

Radley

03-03-2007, 02:55 PM

Radley

03-03-2007, 03:12 PM

Atwa

03-03-2007, 04:02 PM

Alfred

03-04-2007, 12:49 AM

Aven Riftwatcher looks great against aggro decks, and Children of Korlis is a good thing to have maybe in the SB against Tendrils of Agony decks. Actually, a lot of the new rebels are pretty good, especially Knight of the Holy Nimbus. Things to consider.

Atwa

03-04-2007, 04:23 AM

Children of Korlis is also a cool thing to have when you play Phyrexian Prossesor. It is fargile as hell, but it might be good against combo (the both of them).

Radley

03-04-2007, 04:57 AM

I do think before posting.

Every deck in Legacy playing white, is also playing 4x Swords to plowshares. Does that mean none of these decks lose to Goblins? No it doesn't.

I was only making that statement, because I was trying to point out the general gameplan of decks in Legacy.

Don't get me wrong, I like playing with Rebels as much as the next guy, but Rebels simply isn't viable. There is too much anti sinergy whitin our deck. The biggest strenght of rebels is/was the sinergy the whole deck had. You sacrifice this sinergy, so you can run answers to the format (in StP and WoG).

If this is needed to make the deck better in our format, why even bother running Rebels at al?

If you insist of playing rebels, I think you should go C.P.'s route. Mono white lacks good answers (Wrath of God is not a good answer in a deck which tries to win via creature beatdown). You need to splash a coulor to give you extra options.

Then again, when splashing a colour, you lose slots where you could run rebels, so what's the point in insisting on rebels? Just go play fish, which can do the same thing, only better.

omg.. I guess you haven't played the version of rebels that i made. WoG then cast a recruiter. so you know the answer to your nonsense question now? This deck is not like goblin deck with a wrath of god, this is a deck with rebels on it that can recruit.

Against goblin, the only SB i can think of is prismatic strand, because goblin decks tends to cast siege-gang commander and win because they get haste from goblin warchief. So prevent the damage from red sources then you can attack next turn or wrath of god. I fail to see what goblins can do against enchantments. If they don't have answer to enchantments in maindeck, then rebels are better in that way.

Yes, children of korlis and aven riftwatcher is a good addition.

C.P.

03-05-2007, 09:12 PM

omg.. I guess you haven't played the version of rebels that i made. WoG then cast a recruiter. so you know the answer to your nonsense question now? This deck is not like goblin deck with a wrath of god, this is a deck with rebels on it that can recruit.

Against goblin, the only SB i can think of is prismatic strand, because goblin decks tends to cast siege-gang commander and win because they get haste from goblin warchief. So prevent the damage from red sources then you can attack next turn or wrath of god. I fail to see what goblins can do against enchantments. If they don't have answer to enchantments in maindeck, then rebels are better in that way.

Yes, children of korlis and aven riftwatcher is a good addition.

I like the children. It might come handy against tendrils and its friends.

Anyway, let's face it. As Atwa2002 mentioned, rebels is not a good deck. No point in a trying to deny the fact. However, what you can do is just admit it and try your best. then you can at least make a tier 2 deck that will give you some fun in your local store.

That said, The deck(or rebel itself)'s strength:

Once once guy resolves, counter doesn't do much.
The guys also provide gradual CA.
Shuffling/Deckthinning works well with cards like Top/Brainstorm.
All the build up, and abilty to fight WoG at the same time(Sivy Rocks) gives a good long game.

What's it's disadvantage?

Slower than WW(angel stompy), and creatures are more fragile.
Unless you have all the setup, rebels does not like to engage in combat and chump. a serious problem because the deck is slow.
All the weakness of WW stays on, especially the fact that it loses to Combo.

So the mission is to create a creature deck that can go to long game to utilize rebel's strength to the extereme. It should a good game plan against combo as well.

That will give us:

Vs. Aggro: You play control. You have to stabilize against them with resonable amount time. since your creatures are small, you cannot play aggro in any occasion. Things like Jitte will help.

Vs. Control: The main reason to play the deck. the long them advatage the deck gives will outplay any blue based control. Non blue one's are harder to deal with, but your deck is immune to mass removal.

Vs. Aggro control: Thresh is an easy match. YOu can probably set infinit chumpers before it is too late. Then just drag it out until you have enough army. Sui or Red Death is harder because they are faster, and you have to play control.

Vs. Combo: Good luck. Playing maindeck Arcane Lab helps, but not much.

With this guideline, what is your best option in color?

Mono W: Gives you stable manbase. Disencaht, StP, and other board contorol provides everything you need for the borad control. Combo is a nightmare, though, since you just suck.

W/U: Ol' Counterebels. The fact that rebel does not requre you to play socery speed spell make the deck tick. You get counters to fight combo and other disruption, and makes you better at control. However, the fact that you cannot afford(or barely afford) FoW hurts. Light splash for Brainstrom and some light counter is the best. and maybe SB mages.

W/B: Vindicate, Duress, Theraphy, Verdict. You can fight combo easily, and with some effort, you can fight beatdown as well. However, it is dreadfully slow.

Other options: Probably not viable at all. Oh, you wanna go burning rebels? Or double berserk Sivy FTW?

I've got cold, and my head hurts, so I'll leave it at that. Good luck.

Radley

03-07-2007, 08:29 AM

I like the children. It might come handy against tendrils and its friends.

Anyway, let's face it. As Atwa2002 mentioned, rebels is not a good deck. No point in a trying to deny the fact. However, what you can do is just admit it and try your best. then you can at least make a tier 2 deck that will give you some fun in your local store.

That said, The deck(or rebel itself)'s strength:

Once once guy resolves, counter doesn't do much.
The guys also provide gradual CA.
Shuffling/Deckthinning works well with cards like Top/Brainstorm.
All the build up, and abilty to fight WoG at the same time(Sivy Rocks) gives a good long game.

What's it's disadvantage?

Slower than WW(angel stompy), and creatures are more fragile.
Unless you have all the setup, rebels does not like to engage in combat and chump. a serious problem because the deck is slow.
All the weakness of WW stays on, especially the fact that it loses to Combo.

So the mission is to create a creature deck that can go to long game to utilize rebel's strength to the extereme. It should a good game plan against combo as well.

That will give us:

Vs. Aggro: You play control. You have to stabilize against them with resonable amount time. since your creatures are small, you cannot play aggro in any occasion. Things like Jitte will help.

Vs. Control: The main reason to play the deck. the long them advatage the deck gives will outplay any blue based control. Non blue one's are harder to deal with, but your deck is immune to mass removal.

Vs. Aggro control: Thresh is an easy match. YOu can probably set infinit chumpers before it is too late. Then just drag it out until you have enough army. Sui or Red Death is harder because they are faster, and you have to play control.

Vs. Combo: Good luck. Playing maindeck Arcane Lab helps, but not much.

With this guideline, what is your best option in color?

Mono W: Gives you stable manbase. Disencaht, StP, and other board contorol provides everything you need for the borad control. Combo is a nightmare, though, since you just suck.

W/U: Ol' Counterebels. The fact that rebel does not requre you to play socery speed spell make the deck tick. You get counters to fight combo and other disruption, and makes you better at control. However, the fact that you cannot afford(or barely afford) FoW hurts. Light splash for Brainstrom and some light counter is the best. and maybe SB mages.

W/B: Vindicate, Duress, Theraphy, Verdict. You can fight combo easily, and with some effort, you can fight beatdown as well. However, it is dreadfully slow.

Other options: Probably not viable at all. Oh, you wanna go burning rebels? Or double berserk Sivy FTW?

I've got cold, and my head hurts, so I'll leave it at that. Good luck.

being white, I can sideboard an angel's grace so you don't lose game against tendrils user. Against solidarity, just pray you got a lin, sivvi in play to you can put rebels on your library when you decked out(is it only when you can't draw cards then you lose the game? or is it by the time your library decked out. If you lose immediately to that, then you can use angel's grace so you don't lose that turn then after their brainfreeze resolves, then you can use lin sivvi's ability).

Or Gaea's blessing, against solidarity and is never a dead card because you can put back to library dead rebels that you need immediately if lin sivvi is not out yet and you draw a card. Krosan grip(disenchant that can't be countered) against orim's chant/isochron and solitary confinement and mana speed up like nature's lore. Against goblins, you can add elephant grass just to give yourself some time to draw wrath of god or you can add glacial chasm. So, adding green gives you answer to all the meta. Am I right?

Ok, adding blue:
You can add Arcane laboratory because it's an advantage to you. Advantage because you don't really need to cast that much when you're recruiting. You can even put standstill. Stifle against Solidarity and Iggy pop comboes. Maybe just add some counterspell for some protection. Against goblins, you can add glacial chasm to give you some time to set up or till your wrath of god comes out.

Maybe, if possible, add gaea's blessing and stifle/trickbind and arcane laboratory. I'll try in MWS after i finished my project: essay.

No offense but I just want to tell you that looking at the negative side of decks and looking for more disadvantages without thinking of solutions are the way of the losers. So don't give up and be optimist.

C.P.

03-07-2007, 10:25 AM

being white, I can sideboard an angel's grace so you don't lose game against tendrils user. Against solidarity, just pray you got a lin, sivvi in play to you can put rebels on your library when you decked out(is it only when you can't draw cards then you lose the game? or is it by the time your library decked out. If you lose immediately to that, then you can use angel's grace so you don't lose that turn then after their brainfreeze resolves, then you can use lin sivvi's ability).

(...)

Maybe, if possible, add gaea's blessing and stifle/trickbind and arcane laboratory. I'll try in MWS after i finished my project: essay.

No offense but I just want to tell you that looking at the negative side of decks and looking for more disadvantages without thinking of solutions are the way of the losers. So don't give up and be optimist.

First, Sivy is not going to save you against Solidarity. So you put a card on top of Your library. they can deal with with all the time you give them. Blessing is same as well. I'm not David Gearheart, but I can win against Jotun Grunt + Blessing + stfile if the opposing deck does not kill me on turm 3.

Angel's grace aginst tendrils is marginal, and is not going to save you against 20 goblins.

And I was trying to be positive. If I gave up on the deck, I would not write all that crap about possible rebel decks. You need to know disadvantages of the deck to win. There is nothing wrong with not being delusional about your deck.

Radley

03-07-2007, 10:47 AM

First, Sivy is not going to save you against Solidarity. So you put a card on top of Your library. they can deal with with all the time you give them. Blessing is same as well. I'm not David Gearheart, but I can win against Jotun Grunt + Blessing + stfile if the opposing deck does not kill me on turm 3.

Angel's grace aginst tendrils is marginal, and is not going to save you against 20 goblins.

And I was trying to be positive. If I gave up on the deck, I would not write all that crap about possible rebel decks. You need to know disadvantages of the deck to win. There is nothing wrong with not being delusional about your deck.

There is still chance to win if 20 goblins are out. 1 Wrath of god is all you need.

So, counter rebels I guess is the best type of rebel then. 4 stifles/trickbind, 4 force of will, 4 counterspells, 4 ramosian sergeant, 2 ramosian lieutenant, 2 lin sivvi, then the 2 CC rebels and some 3 CC rebels, and 1 children of korlis And more counterpells. Mana accelerant will be mox diamond or chrome mox. Maybe add 4 mystical tutors and only add 1 wrath of god and other removals/disruption against combo decks.

So, against solidarity, your stifles will be used or add more trickbind so you're really safe ^_^, stifle isn't only useful against solidarity it's useful against iggy pop too and other cards like fetchlands and goblins to slow them down if you can't counter spells.

C.P.

03-07-2007, 12:49 PM

There is still chance to win if 20 goblins are out. 1 Wrath of god is all you need.

So, counter rebels I guess is the best type of rebel then. 4 stifles/trickbind, 4 force of will, 4 counterspells, 4 ramosian sergeant, 2 ramosian lieutenant, 2 lin sivvi, then the 2 CC rebels and some 3 CC rebels, and 1 children of korlis And more counterpells. Mana accelerant will be mox diamond or chrome mox. Maybe add 4 mystical tutors and only add 1 wrath of god and other removals/disruption against combo decks.

So, against solidarity, your stifles will be used or add more trickbind so you're really safe ^_^, stifle isn't only useful against solidarity it's useful against iggy pop too and other cards like fetchlands and goblins to slow them down if you can't counter spells.

The problem with FoW is that you have to play at least 14-16 rebels to make the deck tick and all other cards cannot be blue(Stp, WoG). Stifle is a very good utility card and packing 4 wouldn't be bad. I'm not sure about trickbind, though. The cards that prevents storm isn't all taht great if you face a gu producing 60+ mana and stroke for the win, which does happen a lot when they have 5+ island. You just have to win fast with some disruption against Solidarity. SB Mage + Lab/Rule + fast rebel is probably your best bet.

And with some testing, B/W rebel isn't that bad at all. It has decent chance against everything. It might be better than counterebel.

Radley

03-07-2007, 01:15 PM

The problem with FoW is that you have to play at least 14-16 rebels to make the deck tick and all other cards cannot be blue(Stp, WoG). Stifle is a very good utility card and packing 4 wouldn't be bad. I'm not sure about trickbind, though. The cards that prevents storm isn't all taht great if you face a gu producing 60+ mana and stroke for the win, which does happen a lot when they have 5+ island. You just have to win fast with some disruption against Solidarity. SB Mage + Lab/Rule + fast rebel is probably your best bet.

And with some testing, B/W rebel isn't that bad at all. It has decent chance against everything. It might be better than counterebel.

I know that thing about FoW that's why the rebels I will use will be fewer(notice my previous post), I'll probably use arcane laboratory over rule of law so i can remove it from the game for FoW. I think Arcane lab is just ok to be in main deck because I recruit anyway.

B/W rebel would be cool. But it's still slow against aggro but even better against control or combo decks. Adding smokestack might also be cool, I'm trying to make a Rebel/Stax deck that can be viable. It would probably has tangle wire to slow down opponent, rule of law against combo decks, wrath of god and swords to plowshares?

C.P.

03-07-2007, 01:31 PM

I know that thing about FoW that's why the rebels I will use will be fewer(notice my previous post), I'll probably use arcane laboratory over rule of law so i can remove it from the game for FoW. I think Arcane lab is just ok to be in main deck because I recruit anyway.

B/W rebel would be cool. But it's still slow against aggro but even better against control or combo decks. Adding smokestack might also be cool, I'm trying to make a Rebel/Stax deck that can be viable. It would probably has tangle wire to slow down opponent, rule of law against combo decks, wrath of god and swords to plowshares?

My list right now looks like this:

4 Duress
4 Cabal Theraphy
3 gerad's verdict

4 Swords to Plwshears
4 Vindicate

3 Llin sivvi, Defiant hero
4 Ramosian Sergeant
3 Ramosian Lieutenant
4 Amrou Scout
1 Whipcorder
1 Lawbringer
1 Lightbringer
1 Defiant vanguard
1 Thermal glider

3 Gaea's Cradle
3 Floded strand
4 Windweapt Heath
4 Scrupland
8 Plains

SB

4 Engineered Plague
4 Perish
1 Gerad's verdict
3 Rule of law
3 Darkblast

Sidboard need a lot of work. Considering the inclusion of Mox.

Radley

03-07-2007, 05:45 PM

My U/W rebel decklist untested is this:

4 force of will
4 counterspell
2 forbid
4 stifle
2 arcane laboratory
2 impulse or remove forbid for more
2 wrath of god

4 ramosian sergeant
2 lin sivvi - notice i put only 2 because 3 cc is too much
4 ramosian lieutenant - this survives those cheap -1/-1 removals(darkblast, engineered plagues)
2 Whipcorder
1 Lawbringer
1 Lightbringer
1 Thermal glider - lol kill card
1 children of korlis

2 mox diamond
4 tundra
3 flooded strand
3 windswept heath
8 island
2 plains
2 gaea's cradle

Rebel stax variant - weak, I guess. Will try it now.
4 ramosian sergeant
2 smokestack
4 enlightened tutor
4 ramosian lieutenant
2 lin sivvi, defiant hero
4 Tangle Wire
4 Swords to plowshares
2 trinisphere
4 wrath of god
1 whipcorder
2 crucible of worlds

4 mox diamond = 37

4 Ancient Tomb
2 city of traitors
9 plains
4 flooded strand
4 tundra

SB
4 Disenchant
4 Tormod's Crypt
4 Sphere of Law
3 Hanna's Custody
can't think of any more SB

noobslayer

03-07-2007, 06:09 PM

Gaea's Cradle in a deck with no green and is already packing Wrath of God seems counter productive.

vigilante

03-07-2007, 06:19 PM

Radley

03-07-2007, 06:43 PM

Consider the implications of Wrath of God on the tier 1 matchups:

- Solidarity: thanks you for playing a completely dead card.
- Goblins: thanks you for wiping the board (and removing your recruiters, effectively setting yourself back two turns), then proceeds to re-populate the red-zone using Aether Vial or Ringleaders.
- Thresh: either counters your Wrath (if they want their large creatures to live), or thanks you for wiping the board and removing your blockers, then plays its own fat creatures and counters yours as you attempt to recover from your own Wrath.

Creature-based strategies like Rebels do not want an indiscriminate board sweeper in their deck. Pinpoint removal like Swords to Plowshares or Vindicate (as in C.P's W/B list) is much more effective.

Gaea's cradle is used for recruiting other rebels.

@solidarity, i got 4 enlightened tutor and 2 arcane laboratory in U/W and SB 2 more. With rebel stax, i got 4 enlightened tutor, 2 trinisphere And i'll SB rule of law

@Wrath of God is intended for aggro decks, I'm not stupid enough to play all recruiters in my hand then result to WoG all my recruiter. If you have any experience at all, you won't play all recruiters you draw but instead recruit for more straight from deck and keep your WoG until something went wrong.

@goblins, with u/w i got stifles to delay matrons, ringleader and aether vial(if possible). Can also be used against wasteland or their fetchlands.

@thresh, ok, counter my wrath, i got a whipcorder out which can be easily recruited. And lol, Rebels can't recover after wrath of god? Are you kidding me, And Lin sivvi is there to bring back the rebels back? My u/w deck also has counters BTW. I played against thresh using my mono-white rebel, they just can't win. I went more than 12-0 till my friend don't want to play with me anymore. What more if I got counterspells, might got worse, or better.

Atwa

03-07-2007, 06:44 PM

Creature-based strategies like Rebels do not want an indiscriminate board sweeper in their deck. Pinpoint removal like Swords to Plowshares or Vindicate (as in C.P's W/B list) is much more effective.

Thanks for pointing out what I've tried to tell him for several posts.

I doubt he'll listen though.

vigilante

03-07-2007, 06:46 PM

Radley

03-07-2007, 06:59 PM

OK radley, we've tried our best. You want help with the deck but you don't want to listen to anyone's suggestions. Good luck with Rebels, and be sure to let us know how Wrath of God works out for you (or more likely, how it doesn't).

OMG, I'll try the deck now. You've tried your best but you didn't listen to any of my reasons. You said WoG is not good because it kills my recruiters not including the ones in my hand which i can play. If they will cast ringleaders or matron, i got stifle or counterspells to take care of them so they don't really recover that fast. But me on the other hand starts recruiting again next turn.

u/w Rebels are not fast killers, they set up before attacking. 4 STP is a nice addition but I still don't know what to remove. I'll test the deck on MWS to see if WoG is ok or if i need STP.

I'm certain WoG works for me because I've used it since rebels first came out. Proper type 2 rebels had 4 wrath of gods(yes, maindeck) and armageddons against blue or if you will get advantage by using geddon. Since the beginning or rebels, they are prepared for a timely wrath of god. Yes, and don't tell me it's not type 2 anymore.

Cait_Sith

03-07-2007, 07:08 PM

Radley

03-07-2007, 07:35 PM

To play Wrath of God and leave Stifle mana open means you are on your fifth turn and so probably dead already. To Goblins, Solidarity, or Thresh.

Also, this isn't Type 2. I don't run Hand in Hand or MartyrProc because they don't work in Legacy. Different formats requires different cards.

I got mox diamond, if i can't use stifle, maybe FoW will do?

Yes, as i expected, pointed out to me that this isn't type 2 although i already said it in my previous post. hmmm.. maybe I'm aware this format is not type 2. *plays stupid* oh, legacy isn't type 2? OMg I'm tired of all this flaming. I'm just trying to point out why the card is not exactly useless but then everytime i do that they will say anything just to point out i'm wrong even though i've already said my reason.

If you want me to remove Wrath of God, say something like "it's casting cost is too high so replace it with swords to plowshares". Keeping on saying WoG screws the deck up isn't really a good reason because rebels recruit. It's just the players who say that WoG screws the deck don't know how to play WoG in a timely manner. That being said, I came to my conclusion, that these people are just messing me or they are just playing stupid.

Bargoth

03-07-2007, 08:22 PM

If playing w/u rebels I feel like Brainstorm should be a near auto include, the ability to shuffle every turn via recruiters and the fact that you are playing fetch lands means that you will get very good card quality from it.

I would say it is a better use of the Forbid/Impulse slots that were in your build Radley.

Swords to Plowshares should also be an auto include. Atleast as a 3 of, though I would play 4. I dont know if they should in the Wrath slot or not, but they should be in the deck...

Spell base:
4 FoW
4 Brainstorm
3-4 Swords to Plowshares
3-4 Stifle
2-4 Counterspell

Rebel base:
4 Ramosian Sergeant
3-4 Ramosian Lieutenant
2-3 Lin Sivvi
2-3 Thermal Glider
2 Whipcorder
1 Children of Korlis

Then would fill in remaining spaces with more card draw (Standstill would be huge), more counters, Wrath of God or maybe another form of creature kill, if something better is available. Maybe disenchant effects if room permits and then quite a bit of land probably 21-24 (I feel like T2 lists used to run like 23-25) sources given the fact you never want to miss a land drop really as the more land you get the more recruiting and recurring and control can be done.

Any way that would be my 2 cents.

Radley

03-07-2007, 08:42 PM

Still testing the deck, It takes time to finish a game. My opponents only plays with me once after losing. Only played the deck 2x, a mono black discard - I won although my tundra and counterspell got extirpated. extirpated my counterspell and I got 2 of it in my hand, disaster. And 2nd game I played against someone with shadowmage infiltrator.

I made some changes on the deck because I figured 1 children of korlis won't make alot of difference so i replaced it with mox diamond. I added more impulse and removed arcane laboratory. I removed lightbringer and added a land. I added 2 mystical tutor and removed 2 WoG.

I think I'll just remove lawbringer as you suggest because it's too slow. I will add 1 more thermal glider for it.

WoG will be removed for StP, because I noticed i can control my opponent's creatures with whipcorder and a WoG means starting from scrap again although it's not a bad idea because at that time I got plenty of lands. What i really needed is a good attacker, thermal glider is my best option or might use nightwind glider too as a one of.

vigilante

03-08-2007, 08:47 AM

WoG will be removed for StP, because I noticed i can control my opponent's creatures with whipcorder and a WoG means starting from scrap again...Excellent decision...finally. Have you considered increasing the number of Whipcorders accordingly? I would, seeing as your current primary win condition seems to be Thermal Glider (a less-than-stellar 3cc 2/1 flyer). With more Whipcorders to recruit, you could conceivably lock down the board and win with a 1/1 for all I care.

C.P.

03-08-2007, 09:56 AM

Gaea's Cradle in a deck with no green and is already packing Wrath of God seems counter productive.

The card is necessary evil.

Radley

03-08-2007, 02:23 PM

My kill card is a bit shaky. Should I add 1-2 nonrebel killers? I used to have masticore in the deck and it works well with gaea's cradle. Is there any better killer than masticore? 1-2 akroma in deck? Or exalted angel? Or how about crovax ascendant hero, it avoids removal. Commander eesha has protection from creatures. Or maybe decree of justice, will work because of gaea's cradle. Dust elemental? 4 casting 6/6 with fear and flying. hnted lamasu? or dark depths lol. What's the best to use? Any better killer?

as with a W/B variant, I would add 1 dunerider outlaw, I would use 3 blightspeaker as a killer. Rathi trapper instead of whipcorder? or both? 1 big game hunter and 1 rebel informer, so that the comes into play ability can be played over and over again, it also protects your creature from being removed from the game if your opponent would ever SB those cards that removes cards from game.

Bargoth

03-08-2007, 08:07 PM

My kill card is a bit shaky. Should I add 1-2 nonrebel killers? ... 1-2 akroma in deck? Or exalted angel? Or how about crovax ascendant hero, it avoids removal. Commander eesha has protection from creatures. Or maybe decree of justice, will work because of gaea's cradle. Dust elemental? 4 casting 6/6 with fear and flying. hnted lamasu? or dark depths lol. What's the best to use? Any better killer?

Why given the fact that you are going through all the trouble to utilize a rebel engine would you use a non rebel win condition?!?!? This just seems very counter productive, when you can include a one of Ramosian Sky Marshal and/or Jhovall Queen and add the flexability of being able to recur or pull them out of your deck at any time with Lin Sivvi. They are not the strongest white finishers, sure, but they get the job done, and do so with the ability to be grabbed whenever you are in a position to win, where as any other creatures you would have to count on drawing into for the win.

I would think adding a couple extra Whipcorder might not be the worst idea either.

Also have you tested Brainstorm in the deck yet? I still feel like it is a huge boost to the deck far better then impulse, given its ability to return drawn rebels into the library and exchange them with any luck for land, draw spells or counters. Again with all the shuffle effects that the Rebels add and fetchlands these really seem like a no-brainer.

Radley

03-09-2007, 05:02 AM

Why given the fact that you are going through all the trouble to utilize a rebel engine would you use a non rebel win condition?!?!? This just seems very counter productive, when you can include a one of Ramosian Sky Marshal and/or Jhovall Queen and add the flexability of being able to recur or pull them out of your deck at any time with Lin Sivvi. They are not the strongest white finishers, sure, but they get the job done, and do so with the ability to be grabbed whenever you are in a position to win, where as any other creatures you would have to count on drawing into for the win.

I would think adding a couple extra Whipcorder might not be the worst idea either.

Also have you tested Brainstorm in the deck yet? I still feel like it is a huge boost to the deck far better then impulse, given its ability to return drawn rebels into the library and exchange them with any luck for land, draw spells or counters. Again with all the shuffle effects that the Rebels add and fetchlands these really seem like a no-brainer.

It's just that i wanted a really good finisher, something that has a good evasion, maybe amrou seekers, a rebel, can't be except by blocked by artifact and/white creature.

@brainstorm, ye, good idea but i'd rather use sensei's divining top, with all the shuffling this deck has, sensei top, i think, is better.

C.P.

03-09-2007, 10:55 AM

It's just that i wanted a really good finisher, something that has a good evasion, maybe amrou seekers, a rebel, can't be except by blocked by artifact and/white creature.

As Bargoth, suggested, Jobal Queen or Sky Marshall is better win condition. Playing non rebel creatures should be avoided if possible.

Radley

03-09-2007, 01:40 PM

As Bargoth, suggested, Jobal Queen or Sky Marshall is better win condition. Playing non rebel creatures should be avoided if possible.

I'd rather use amrou seekers, it has better evasion than jhovall queen and sky marshall. And it can be played faster than those 2.

C.P.

03-09-2007, 03:31 PM

I'd rather use amrou seekers, it has better evasion than jhovall queen and sky marshall. And it can be played faster than those 2.

And get blocked by Serra Avenger all day?

Radley

03-10-2007, 04:53 AM

And get blocked by Serra Avenger all day?

And my jhovall queen will be blocked by beloved chaplain all day long ^_^, can't tap that too, tried to tap it but he's so cute and cuddly that i can't do it. BTW, it's like fear but instead of black, it can be blocked by white.

vigilante

03-10-2007, 05:11 AM

Radley

03-10-2007, 05:28 AM

I don't want to sound like I'm being petty or anything, but a) name one quality Legacy deck that uses Beloved Chaplain, and b) even if you are facing down a Beloved Chaplain, it'll be able to block Amrou Seekers just as easily as it could Jhovall Queen.

C.P mentioned Ramosian Sky Marshall. At least that's large and evasive (whereas Jhovall Queen is just large, and Amrou Seekers is just evasive).

LOL, you took the beloved chaplain comment too seriously. I know no one uses it hehehe. At least serra avenger is usable.Dark depths is cool, 2020 undestructible :laugh: so i can use the promo card marit lage :tongue:

Ok, ok, ramosian sky marshal it is then. although it dies against exalted angel(can tap it anyway)

vigilante

03-10-2007, 05:39 AM

LOL, you took the beloved chaplain comment too seriously.radley, for God's sake stop making stupid suggestions then backpedalling and making out like you were joking. You've done it in about three threads so far and it's getting ridiculous...you say that you know that no one uses cards like Chaplain, but when you continue posting this sort of rubbish (supposedly as a joke, but I'm not so sure) it's difficult to tell if you do actually know what you're talking about.

On the topic of Exalted Angel, what advantage is there to playing Rebels over, say, Angel Stompy or Death & Taxes? All three are creature-based white-based aggro decks, but Rebels seems to be slower, weaker, and definately lacking in disruption compared to the other two. When you consider that the Rebels with recruiting abilities that you use aren't exactly suited to combat, what advantage does the Rebel engine have over Angel Stompy (whose creatures are much more resilient)?

Radley

03-10-2007, 05:49 AM

radley, for God's sake stop making stupid suggestions then backpedalling and making out like you were joking. You've done it in about three threads so far and it's getting ridiculous...you say that you know that no one uses cards like Chaplain, but when you continue posting this sort of rubbish (supposedly as a joke, but I'm not so sure) it's difficult to tell if you do actually know what you're talking about.

On the topic of Exalted Angel, what advantage is there to playing Rebels over, say, Angel Stompy or Death & Taxes? All three are creature-based white-based aggro decks, but Rebels seems to be slower, weaker, and definately lacking in disruption compared to the other two. When you consider that the Rebels with recruiting abilities that you use aren't exactly suited to combat, what advantage does the Rebel engine have over Angel Stompy (whose creatures are much more resilient)?

All their big creature without flying dies against defiant vanguard, If my opponent decides to attack. Against creatures with flying, I have a whipcorder or if I can, I can block flyers with my 1 and only fliyer then revive with lin sivvi then recruit(very easy if gaea's cradle is in play). But again, your question's answer is why I'm insisting to use wrath of god.

Against the deaths and taxes, I don't really know why I won against it 2x in MWS if it's as strong as you were saying. Basically, what happened is I just recruit and recruit till my gaea's cradle was out then my opponent said, "you win, I can't stop your creatures"

Against stompy, My answer is "that's why I insist on using wrath of god". They don't recruit, I do, that's the advantage.

vigilante

03-10-2007, 06:20 AM

You misunderstand. I wasn't asking why your deck is better against Angel Stompy or D&T, I was asking why people should play Rebels over D&T/AS against other decks. Let's take D&T as an example against a handful of other good decks...

vs. Solidarity -- D&T has a mana denial sub-strategy (Rishadan Port, Tangle Wire, Hokori) which while weak against Solidarity, is stronger than Rebels' disruption (ie. none). There's also maindeck True Believers, as well as some combination of Glowriders, Spheres of Resistance and Rules of Law in the sideboard. Rebels has none of these equivalents.

vs. Goblins -- once again, D&T has mana denial (which is offset if Goblins gets an Aether Vial, but to be fair, D&T has Vials of its own) while Rebels has none. D&T's creatures are for the most part far more resilient than Rebels are, and if Silver Knights are used in the maindeck, are an absolute nightmare for Goblins. Swords to Plowshares are common to both D&T and Rebels, but can't be relied on to stop Goblin Lackeys (D&T plays 3 Isamaru, which gives it additional Lackey protection that Rebels simply doesn't have). D&T can also dedicate a large portion of its sideboard to dominating the Goblins matchup...Rebels on the other hand has very few Rebel-based answers to Goblins (and before you say that Rebels can just board in the same sorts of answers as D&T, remember that that would be diluting the Rebel strategy, weakening your engine).

vs. Threshold -- as always, D&T can disrupt the game via mana denial (which can be particularly effective against mana-light Thresh decks), while as usual Rebels can't. Rebels can, however, circumvent Thresh's countermagic by using it's recruiting engine (although D&T can do the same if it resolves an unanswered Aether Vial). As was pointed out earlier in this thread, UGw Thresh is probably Rebels' only positive matchup...UGr Thresh will be much more problematic for Rebels owing to the increased removal provided by the red splash.

vs. any Tendrils-based combo (ie. TES) -- Rebels has to get an early Children of Korlis or it loses. Simple. D&T however has True Believers, the ever-present mana denial strategy, and a sideboard of Glowriders/Sphere of Resistance/Rule of Law. It's a bad matchup for both D&T and Rebels, but at least D&T has some hope.

Angel Stompy is even better than D&T in aggro matchups, but is even more dependent (than D&T) on its sideboard against combo.

As far Rebels vs. D&T/Angel Stompy, I suspect that more thorough, non-MWS-based testing would reveal a trend different to that of your preliminary findings (which suggest that Rebels dominates matchups against both of those decks). Furthermore, I doubt that returning to the bad-old-days of "insisting on Wrath of God in Rebels" is the correct answer....Wrath does not belong in this deck any more than Pyroclasm belongs in Goblins, Leyline of the Void in Thresh, or Arcane Laboratory in Solidarity. It's 100% at odds to your strategy, as much now as when you first suggested it.

Ninj4

03-10-2007, 05:18 PM

quick thoughts:

- I think W/u is prolly the best. Brainstorms, FoW, arcane lab, Meddling Mage, amongst other things
- if you can protect against removal, instant speed recurring children of korlis via lin sivvi seems decent. with mage on Swords against thresh and pithing needle on incinerator or seige gang, its gunna be rough as they have to kill you in one shot, right?
-I'm pretty sure you don't need the anti-black stufflike Nightwind glider and lightbringer. stick with anti-red as stop goblins which seems like a scary matchup because of how fast they are.
-Gaea's Cradle seems bad. Run Ancient tomb (synergy with children of korlis?!) and Chrome moxen.
-Sideboard Tivadar's crusade. It's wrath against the most popoular deck in the format and has splash damage against one of your crappier matchups.
-If you decide to stick with 4 gaea's cradle, i think including congregation at dawn would be a smart idea. you really want lin sivvi out with this deck and a minor downside to recruiting is that there's no way to tutor another lin sivvi into your hand (Ninjas ftw!)
- win condition would prolly be a mix of sky marshall and thermal glider. maybe Seekers. I'd probably run each as a one of for a tutor via lin sivvi.

Anyway, don't take my words too seriously. I think its a terrible deck but the Lin Sivvi/Korlis loop is interesting to me ^_^;;

troopatroop

03-10-2007, 09:42 PM

My thoughts on the deck.

You have absolutely no plan to stop combo. None. You apply a very weak clock at the cost of being able to "recruit" and... then apply pressure? What are you gaining, other than inevitability against Aggro and strings of creatures against control decks with counters (which show to be terrible). You have to understand Radley, that if you have enough time to pay the cost of recruiting on a resolved rebel, and havent had your very vulnerable creature killed, you've Already won. With goblins in this same highly optimal situation, you've won the game, case in point, no argument. With this deck, you need to reach that highly optimal position to even start posing a threat to your opponent, because quite frankly, your creatures dont pose any sort of clock to a decent opponent without getting your engine running.

You said it yourself "Rebels aren't fast killers". So you want to play the control roll? What do rebels do for that strategy. You have to understand that getting card advantage through rectuiting of your creatures requires a card investment that will very often end up killed. You're allowing aggro to answer your draw engine with creaure removal, something that successful control decks like Landstill and Thresh don't do, because not being able to answer 1st turn Lackey in this format is suicide, so most successful decks run removal.

You're going to lose every match you play against good combo opponents. That takes like 20% of all your games away from you, FYI. Goblins just runs you the fuck over. Thats usually around 22% of the field.

You're looking at losing about 40% of your games to the top decks in the format for doing cutesie tricks with White weenie. You may do decently with gimmicks like that, but if you haven't read "The Danger of Cool Things" by Mike Flores, you wouldn't know, that threat density and quality is much stronger than inefficient combos, which I'm sorry to say to you, Rebels just is.

Radley

03-11-2007, 05:45 AM

4 force of will
4 counterspell
4 Brainstorm
3 stifle
2 arcane laboratory
4 Swords to plowshares

4 ramosian sergeant
2 lin sivvi - notice i put only 2 because 3 cc is too much
4 ramosian lieutenant - this survives those cheap -1/-1 removals(darkblast, engineered plagues)
3 Whipcorder
1 Ramosian sky marshal
1 children of korlis

2 mox diamond
4 tundra
3 flooded strand
3 windswept heath
5 island
2 plains
2 gaea's cradle
3 rishadan port

Recent decklist. First turn lackey? STP? Stifle? FoW? or just block with my 1 cc creatures. Ok, want a disruption? FoW, counterspells, risahdan port. Against combo, I only have 2 arcane laboratory. Would be more effective if i have enlightened tutor on the mainboard and add more anti-combo artifacts and/or enchantments.

Another version might be without any counterspells, but alot of Hate:

From rebels with hate:

4 ramosian sergeant
4 ramosian lieutenant
2 lin sivvi, defiant hero
4 meddling mage
4 pithing needle
4 Swords to plowshares
4 whipcorder
4 Stifle
1 children of korlis
1 ramosian sky marshal
4 brainstorm

2 mox diamond
4 tundra
3 flooded strand
3 windswept heath
5 island
2 plains
2 gaea's cradle - can't really put ancient tomb because 2 dmg is alot considering my deck isn't combo or doesn't have a lock as tough as confinement(hmmm confinement ^_^ how about adding green instead :laugh: exploration, life from the loam, crop rotation, living wish, It's not possible though)
3 rishadan port

troopatroop

03-11-2007, 01:52 PM

Disruption is only as good as what's backing it up. You can throw SB combo hate at the combo deck, and they wont care, because your board position doesn't threaten them in the slightest and they can wait 10 turns to find an out.

And if you could read and respond to what I said, like you've scolded so many people before for not doing, I would appreciate it. I do want to help, and I spent some time organising those thoughts.

Finn

03-11-2007, 02:36 PM

If you could continue on the trend of replacing the rebels in your rebel deck with actual cards, this could work. My personal choice would be more Gaea's Cradles. They are awesome. It doesn't really matter that they are out of color when you have 15 creatures powering out all these 1 and 2 mana Blue and White spells.
This deck might eventually as good as Landstill with only basic lands so it can run Back to Basics. Go Radley!

MattH

03-11-2007, 02:37 PM

I am shocked to find that the u/w lists are using neither Aether Vial (seriously almost your entire deck is at 2cc) nor Standstill (can recruit without breaking it).

troopatroop

03-11-2007, 02:37 PM

Radley

03-11-2007, 03:27 PM

I can't add vials because I only need to cast 1 recruiter at a time and my creatures aren't that many.

I can run back to basics but it could be a pain in my arse too.

Please don't mock the gaea's cradle in the deck. I played it over ancient tomb.

Troopatroop please don't spam.

troopatroop

03-11-2007, 03:28 PM

I give up. Be bad.

Maëlig

01-01-2008, 06:22 PM

Wouldn't mirror entity as a fetchable 1 of actually be great in any version of rebels? It could give it the extra punch so much needed.

paragon22

01-02-2008, 12:01 AM

Here's a mono white list I tested a few months ago that had positive results against aggro, control decks and goblins. Unfortunately it had big problems against combo. Not sure how to improve it in that department.

Land (23)
18 Plains
4 Gaea's Cradle
1 Dust Bowl

Creatures (29)
4 Ramosian Lieutenant
4 Ramosian Sergeant
4 Whipcorder
4 Knight of the Holy Nimbus
4 Masticore
4 Mother of Runes
2 Lin Sivvi
1 Outrider en Kor
1 Nightwind Glider
1 Thermal Glider

Other (8)
4 Glorious Anthem
4 Swords to Plowshares

In the sideboard I used Artifact/Enchantment destruction and Orim's Chant/Abeyance to disrupt Combo.

Card choices:
23 Land: the deck is pretty mana hungry, so i wouldn't skimp on land. 23 is pretty much the minimum IMO.

4x Gaea's Cradle: Pays the Rebel costs and lets Masticore shoot like crazy. You need 4 because your opponent will often destry a few.

1x Dust Bowl: It seems kind of random, but it lets you get rid of extra lands at the expense of your opponent. I was never really sorry to draw this.

Ramosian Sergeant/Lieutenant: No explanation is really nescessary for these guys. I'd run the Lieutenant over Amrou Scout since it survives a Plague, Mogg Fanatic, and can block a Lackey and survive.

Whipcorder/Knight of the Holy Nimbus: These are the main dudes you search for. Both are great.

4x Masticore: It's great with Gaea's Cradle, slaughters Goblins and other aggro decks, blocks Tarmogoyf all day, and beats for 4. Originally I was running Exalted Angel, but Masticore fits a lot better in the deck since it takes care of pretty much any creature and shrugs off burn.

4x Mother of Runes: Protects all your guys. 'Nuff said.

2x Lin Sivvi: No explanation needed. She's the backbone of the deck.

1x Outrider en Kor: Originally this was a 3rd Lin Sivvi, but I found it to be pretty decent; it comboes well with Mother of Runes. Not too sure about it though.

The Gliders: It's nice to have some flying in the deck and the protection comes in handy too.

Other stuff:
4x Glorious Anthem: White pumping enchantments like Anthem or Crusade are great in this deck, since they turn even lowly Ramosian Sergeants into genuine threats. I like the Anthem over Crusade since it also pumps my Masticores. You also don't have to worry about it pumping your opponent's white creatures.

4x Swords to Plowshares: Best creature removal in the game.

Cards I considered but didn't use:
Jitte/Sword of Fire and Ice: If you add these you have to leave out the Glorious Anthems/Crusades. Personally I like the pump spells more, and Masticore is already kind of like a Jitte on legs, only its better at killing stuff.

Aether Vial: A lot of people may disagree with me on this one, but I think this card is terrible in a Rebel deck. Sure, a lot of creatures cost 2, but you'll be playing most of them from your library rather than from your hand. Generally you want to play a Sergeant or Lietenant first and start recruiting from your library. Aether Vial really doesn't help this plan at all. Vial's great in most weenie decks, but not rebels since you already have an uncounterable way to get your creatures into play at instant speed.

Sorry for the lengthy post. The deck's a blast to play, but unfortunately it really feels Tier 3 at the moment. Basically something like Death and Taxes has better all around matchups, which is why I stopped playing this in local tournaments (although it still owns on the casual table). If Wizards prints some sweet Rebel cards in the future this could change, though. Suggestions and comments would be welcome :smile:

burkey_boy

01-02-2008, 03:05 AM

dont underestimate the kiddies of korlas... they are great with linsivvi

from Cairo

01-02-2008, 05:08 AM

The deck's a blast to play, but unfortunately it really feels Tier 3 at the moment.

I really don't see Rebels ever really moving out of the lower tiers in Legacy. There are better White Weenie decks than Rebels could ever hope to be. It by nature is not very fast nor are any of the creatures especially large.

If one was going to try to developer the deck, I think looking to Counter Rebels as an outline would be stronger, though still not overwhelmingly great. In it's past success the deck's major strength was the ability to leave mana open and recruit in response and during end steps. This allows one to be leaving Counter mana open. The fact that every recruitment is a shuffle effect works very well with Brainstorm. And the fact that you can put threats into play without casting spells, is prefect for Standstill.

I would probably start off with a Rebel shell of...

4 Ramosian Sergeant
4 Whipchorder
4 Meddling Mage
2 Ramosian Lieutenant
2 Lin Sivvi
1 Defiant Vanguard
1 Thermal Glider

4 Brainstorm
4 Standstill
4 Swords to Plowshares

That obviously leaves close to half the deck left to build, but those seem like the obvious choices. One could add maybe Stifle/Port/Wasteland to add a disruption package to the deck? idk, the deck can sort of capitalize on being able to make use of colorless mana when Port/Waste are unnecessary.

Regardless, I really don't see this deck moving beyond a Tier 2+ status, it's really slow, and its threats are really mediocre.

Maëlig

01-02-2008, 07:11 AM

I agree that a deck primarly base on rebels usually lacks competitiveness in legacy. However, it should be noted that a mini rebels engine can be added to some decks to create CA (which usually lacks in white decks) by selecting the best rebels. I think it would be more effective in WW or in D&T (I'm currently working on such a build and will post my list soon).
About your list paragon, you should really have some CoK. You might want to add a mirror entity to give some extra punch, too (kind of awesome with gaea's cradle btw). I would maybe replace glorious anthem by fortify, which is more flexible (you always keep your lands untapped for recruiting anyways) and can create some suprise (saves your creatures from pyroclasm, ends the game in a single big swing, ...). For disruption, you can always pack mana tithe, orim's chant and abeyance. They're OK against combo.

Nihil Credo

01-02-2008, 12:20 PM

Plugging my old Counter-Rebels thread. (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5607)

Captain_Morgan

08-04-2008, 01:18 AM

Anyone ever use Parallax Wave in their builds? I always used to play it off each other to stack Vanguard to chump block, toss damage on stack and chump block with mass rebels, or pull the key ones out before a wrath. Of course this was back in Block/T2, so slowness of wave.

The other theory I always wondered if it worked out any was Thran Turbines, but I see issues with the upkeep phase and mana lock out modes.

hugh1130

08-04-2008, 07:51 PM

humm rebels

off the top of my head, there any momentum in using 8x sphere of resistance and using the rebel ability to break the symmetry of them?

rebel staxx anyone?

Captain_Morgan

08-10-2008, 01:51 AM

Granted I know this rebels is slow as balls rolling through wet pavement and is low tier, however there's some interesting concepts I believe that could work into some alterations and synergy with changelings. But meh, I enjoy playing them.

The way I used to deal with combo years ago was:

A) Ivory Mask to make myself untargetable
B) Meddling Mages to lock down key cards in the combo
C) Counter anything with FoW or Counterspell

Of course this was okay in extended when Delusion/Donates and Oath decks were popular. So I honestly don't know how these concepts being slow in this format will be.

I've played B/W, U/W, and G/W rebel variants. The primary successful versions I've ran are BW and UW variants, and honestly prefer those over others. A green variant with enchantments could also be interesting though. Anyway, continuing onward.

The main cards of interest I have are the Shapeshifters actually:

1. Tauren Mauler
2. Mirror Entity
3. Chameleon Collosus

Tauren Mauler seems like a logical choice in a W/R variant, or even splashing and depending on recruitment. The issue comes that the critter doesn't become viable with searching until round 4. In theory it's a great search, but in the end I'm finding it lacking in power and overall the wrong colour.

Mirror Entity is slow and a nifty target for removal, plus very suseptible to Engineered Plague and the list just goes on. The upside though is combined with Gaea's Cradle you can transform all creatures you own into X/X Changelings and attack with a rush by turn 4 or 5.

Chameleon Collosus I consider fairly weak, but overall it can present problems for black and become an easily blockable 8/4.

Thoughts on Mirror Entity or Tauren Mauler?

boclfon479

08-16-2008, 04:46 PM

I decided recently that i want to make a legacy rebel deck, and my friend was talking about how Counterbalance is a strong deck, and I was wondering what you guys thought about a W/b rebel deck packing scepter-chant, the task force en kor combo(1 of each piece), and cranial extraction? To my understanding, counterbalance only plays WoG as a 4 mana spell, making it easy to get through it and take the balances or WoGs from them?

Nihil Credo

08-16-2008, 04:55 PM

Here's a list you might want to start from. I haven't been doing serious testing on it in the current metagame (hence the lack of a sideboard etc.), but the core engine works somewhat smoothly:

// Lands
4 [PR] Tundra
4 [UNH] Plains
1 [LG] Karakas
2 [UNH] Island
4 [ON] Flooded Strand
3 [ON] Windswept Heath
1 [ON] Polluted Delta
2 [SOK] Miren, the Moaning Well

// Creatures
4 [MM] Ramosian Sergeant
4 [TSP] Amrou Scout / Defiant Falcon / Ramosian Lieutenant
3 [ON] Whipcorder
2 [NE] Lin Sivvi, Defiant Hero
1 [MM] Task Force
1 [LRW] Mirror Entity
1 [TSP] Outrider en-Kor

// Spells
3 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
4 [PR] Brainstorm
4 [R] Swords to Plowshares
4 [OD] Standstill
3 [CS] Counterbalance
1 [FUT] Bound in Silence
4 [PR] Force of Will

Also, I suggest you take a look through the DTB forum and the Top 8 decklists thread to get familiar with the most common archetypes in the format. Counterbalance is, for the most part, played in decks that do not run Wrath of God.

Hanni

08-16-2008, 11:30 PM

I completely forgot about Rebels until the thread got bumped. Even though Rebels aren't very good, they are a blast to play.

They are, however, strong against Threshold and various other CounterTop decks. This makes them not a bad choice in metas heavy with those, although a deck like Dragon Stompy or Ichorid is probably a better call.

The green splash is something that I haven't seen much discussion on. Gaddock Teeg is really strong in this deck, IMO. It answers many forms of combo and it also answers WoG/Humility/Damnation/EE. The fact that it is Legendary plays very well with Karakas, which every Rebels deck should be running as protection from mass removal (targetting Lin Sivvi), IMO. Gaddock Teeg also protects against random stuff like Armageddon too. The fact that he does this disruption as a creature is also good for the deck, since he boosts Gaea's Cradle and can be cast off Aether Vial.

Here's the list I've been playing with on MWS to good success:

W/g Rebels

Lands (22)
4 Windswept Heath
4 Flooded Strand
2 Savannah
4 Plains
4 Karakas
4 Gaea's Cradle

Creatures (30)
4 Ramosian Sergeant
4 Amrou Scout
4 Defiant Falcon
2 Lin Sivvi, Defiant Hero
4 Knight of the Holy Nimbus
4 Whipcorder
1 Nightwing Glider
1 Thermal Glider
1 Children of Korlis
1 Mirror Entity
4 Gaddock Teeg

Spells (8)
4 Chrome Mox
4 Aether Vial

Sideboard (15)
4 Orim's Chant
3 Krosan Grip
4 Tormod's Crypt
4 Engineered Explosives

Amrou Scout could become Ramosian Lieutenant if Goblins or Goyf Sligh (Mogg Fanatic) is being played in a particular metagame.

The 1-of Mirror Entity speeds the deck up a great deal. Chrome Mox and Aether Vial also speed the deck up a great deal. It's actually possible to goldfish with this deck on turn 4.

Last time I checked, that was the fundamental turn of Goblins, except I'd argue that this deck is far more resilient than Goblins. Now, this deck definitely does not goldfish turn 4 consistently, and Goblins does have a possible turn 3 goldfish, but it's still valid. This deck doesn't necessarily need to goldfish that fast since it usually controls the board against most aggro decks (defensively until it dominates with board advantage) and keeps playing through removal against most control decks. Like I mentioned earlier, it typically dominates blue-based aggro/control decks since the countermagic can't answer resolved Vial activations and/or recruiting, most of them lack mass removal, and Goyf is easily answered by Whipcorder/KotHN(s).

I'd say the biggest problem this deck has is mana denial strategies and combo. I probably should run Crucible or Loam in the sideboard for mana denial strategies but I don't know about that yet. Orim's Chant is awesome against sorcery speed Storm combo and is still quite strong against pretty much all other combo. EE answers EtW/Zombie tokens nicely and Crypt can handle combo decks reliant on the graveyard (IGG, Ichorid, etc). Children of Korlis out of the maindeck can buy time against things like EtW tokens, Burn, etc. and Gaddock Teeg is pretty awesome against most combo decks.

SuckerPunch

08-16-2008, 11:41 PM

Kithkin>>>>>Rebels

If any white weenie deck has a shot in the format, it's Kithkin.

Hanni

08-17-2008, 12:32 AM

Kithkin>>>>>Rebels

If any white weenie deck has a shot in the format, it's Kithkin.

At least with my list (dunno about the others), the deck shouldn't even be considered White Weenie. The only time I'm ever the aggressor is against decks without creatures. Normally, I play completely defensive until I have enough Rebels in play to drop Mirror Entity ftw. My list plays out more like combo-control than anything, with Mirror Entity basically being Psychatog, enabling combo-esque 1 turn kills.

Whipcorder's tap down creatures and KotHN (stack) block things (usually when the opponent is tapped out). They almost never turn sideways on my own turn. Honestly, I attack with Defiant Falcons more than any other Rebel.

White Weenie has traditionally been an aggressive deck, attacking with low-costed efficient beaters to kill the opponent before they can stabilize. That philosophy defines what White Weenie is. My Rebel list does not follow that gameplan.

boclfon479

08-17-2008, 02:08 AM

i have another question:

I was reading about how people say rebels is not the3 greatest, but is there a way to integrate scepter chant and/ or find room for decrees? It can make a lot of tokens to help the cradle, and has synergy with mirror entity.

Captain_Morgan

08-17-2008, 10:51 PM

Most of my rebel decks when my meta was heavily countrol oriented was disruption and then summons a huge critter like Masticore or Jhoval Queen for the win. If they couldn't deal with the rebels massing, then they had to contend with the beef under Cradles. The final was a rushed victory with Reverent Mantra with maybe a Dark Triumph as an instant boost.

However, this current meta is different being much more combo and aggro based. Tarmogoyf sort of screws things up as well with Blood Moon.

The problem I see with the 5 years or so since I've actually played one is that:

A) Support in Masques block was crap in Prophecy, when typically the most powerful rebels should've been made. After Nemesis, Rebels didn't have anything competition worthy except for 1 card.

B) It wasn't until Time Spiral that real options came about to put into rebel decks.

C) Changelings don't support the Strategy very well, and are a fairly new tribe in and of itself.

D) Only 52 rebels ever printed, so limited card choices.

It would basically take I think to make this deck go beyond theory to competitive an additional block with real rebel choices (i. e. going back to Mercadia).

Either way, I've taken a look at an enchanter based rebel deck rather than traditional WW or control. Moat would be a nice choice, but there's not enough Rebel flyers to support that strat. Abyss maybe. Then rotate Serras rather than Cradles.

I don't think Stax would be extremely efficient with rebels, they're designed mainly to disrupt and grow. Ultimately, they're a wonderful race with just so few options to make them competitive like Slivers are.

Atwa

08-19-2008, 08:42 AM

Hanni,

I have some questions about your list. I've been testing your deck for a couple of days now and I must say Ive never, ever played a mox. Why did you add them?

You stated yourself you play the deck defensively, so why the tempoboost over cardadvantage? I am really considering cutting them for swords. Those might not be always needed (I've outrun multiple Goyfs, Tombstalkers and Kavu Predators until now), however, I'd rather kill a goyf than have a useless Mox in my hand.

What was the logic including the Mox? You already have great tempoboosts in Cradle and Vial (which I was sceptical of at first, that card rocks). Playing 4 aditional moxes feels a little like overkill.

I'm currently considering the following changes to your list:
-4 Chrome Mox
-1 Defiant Falcon

+ 4 Swords to Plowshares
+1 Plains

Any Ideas?

Radley

11-15-2008, 01:20 AM

came back after a year or more of not posting. maybe not a good idea to come back :)

i love rebels because this is the first deck i've ever made since back type 2.

i agree that rebel can never be a decent weenie, cant ever be a good aggro.

mirror entity is the best card ever been printed for rebels, i think it's the only card that needs to be abused and to be able to do that you'll need some control. to do that, i need to add either blue, go stax or add land disruption through wasteland and rishadan port but it really wont be enough to slow down other aggros such as goblins.

i think the best way to go is stax mono white.

lands: 20
7 plains
4 city of traitors
1 karakas
4 flagstones of trokair
4 ancient tomb

creatures: 11
4 ramosian sergeant
4 ramosian liuetenant
2 lin sivvi
1 mirror entity

artifacts: 20 - all anti-combo(except chrome mox) and gives some control against weenies
4 tangle wire
4 smokestack
4 crucible of worlds
3 trinisphere
3 chalice of the void
3 sphere of resistance

4 chrome mox

enchantments: 4
4 ghostly prison

Sideboards:
3 ethersword cannonist
4 pithing needle
4 thorn of amethyst
4 defense grid

Other cards considered:
Armageddon: this should probably be included in MD
Oblivion ring: i'm not really sure if i needed this ^^

gaea's cradle wasnt included as it won't produce any mana till u get a recruiter out

the idea is to stall opponent till you get enough creatures and then finish it off with mirror entity. this is done by early recruiter+smokestack and eventually crucible+smokestack.

wow my name is still green lol. :laugh:

My God! Use some capital letters, man, or your return will be short lived!
-PR

Rood

11-15-2008, 01:23 AM

Welcome back Radley man, these forums need some entertainment around here.

The random 3x Chalices seem like they could go up to 4, and drop Smokestack down to 3.

^__^

Radley

11-15-2008, 01:35 AM

Welcome back Radley man, these forums need some entertainment around here.

^__^

hahaha lol ^_^ am i in the right time to come back? is this forum missing a clown at the moment? haha :laugh: . i notice that the forum is mssing alot of smileys so i came back to put smileys back in the forum lol

Atwa

11-15-2008, 04:51 AM

hahaha lol ^_^ am i in the right time to come back? is this forum missing a clown at the moment? haha :laugh: . i notice that the forum is mssing alot of smileys so i came back to put smileys back in the forum lol

May God save us all.....

Btw, since when id this guy allowed to post again?

kicks_422

11-15-2008, 08:03 AM

Was he ever banned?

I think 11 creatures is way too low. I would assume you're going for the "drop lock pieces and then operate under them while the opponent cries" strategy, so I would suggest upping that count to around 16, at least. I don't know how you would fit them in, but with a win-con count that low, Geddon Stax seems better to play than this.

Radley

11-15-2008, 08:47 AM

May God save us all.....

Btw, since when id this guy allowed to post again?

what's wrong with me posting? lol :laugh:

Was he ever banned?

I think 11 creatures is way too low. I would assume you're going for the "drop lock pieces and then operate under them while the opponent cries" strategy, so I would suggest upping that count to around 16, at least. I don't know how you would fit them in, but with a win-con count that low, Geddon Stax seems better to play than this.

i wasnt banned but i can only have 1 msg in my PM box and it's kinda sad because alot of people wants to PM me. :laugh:

you don't need a recruiter on the early turns, you got 10 recruiter cards, if u get 1 of them then you can work your way to getting mirror entity then attack. you'd need the early turns to establish control. if i put too much recruiter in deck then there's a big chance i'd get alot of them on my hand instead of getting more artifacts i needed to establish control. compared to armageddon/stax i hav the chance to start a temporary lock once i get a recruiter.

Media314r8

11-15-2008, 01:47 PM

IMO white stacks is best a 'geddon stax, magus of the tabernacle and more synergy within the stacks archetype makes for a more consistant and powerful deck than a stacks shell with 7slots sacrificed to fit in a rebel chain.

My take on WW rebels:

// Lands
4 [TE] Wasteland
14 [CS] Snow-Covered Plains
3 [CS] Scrying Sheets

// Creatures
2 [NE] Lin Sivvi, Defiant Hero
4 [MM] Ramosian Lieutenant
4 [MM] Ramosian Sergeant
4 [ALA] Ethersworn Canonist
4 [TSP] Knight of the Holy Nimbus
1 [TSB] Defiant Vanguard
1 [MM] Nightwind Glider
1 [FNM] Whipcorder
1 [MM] Thermal Glider
1 [TSP] Children of Korlis

// Spells
4 [DS] AEther Vial
4 [CST] Swords to Plowshares
3 [VI] Retribution of the Meek
2 [FUT] Bound in Silence
3 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte

// Sideboard
SB: 3 [10E] Aura of Silence
SB: 3 [MM] Thermal Glider
SB: 4 [MR] Chalice of the Void
SB: 2 [ALA] Relic of Progenitus
SB: 3 [PY] Abolish

WB rebs:

// Lands
1 [ON] Polluted Delta
4 [R] Scrubland
2 [ON] Windswept Heath
2 [ON] Flooded Strand
1 [ON] Bloodstained Mire
4 [6E] Plains (4)
3 [PT] Swamp (3)
4 [TE] Wasteland

// Creatures
1 [ON] Whipcorder
1 [PLC] Big Game Hunter
4 [MM] Ramosian Sergeant
4 [PLC] Blightspeaker
2 [NE] Lin Sivvi, Defiant Hero
1 [TSP] Children of Korlis
4 [TSP] Knight of the Holy Nimbus
1 [MM] Thermal Glider

// Spells
3 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
4 [DS] AEther Vial
4 [CST] Swords to Plowshares
3 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
3 [LRW] Thoughtseize
4 [AP] Gerrard's Verdict

// Sideboard
SB: 3 [MM] Thermal Glider
SB: 1 [PLC] Dunerider Outlaw
SB: 4 [GP] Leyline of the Void
SB: 4 [ALA] Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 3 [PY] Abolish

I abolish as almost a necesity, as it kills both CB and Engineered plague while still not sucking hardcast for 1WW, and IMO disenchant has perhaps a %20 chance of hitting a CB as thresh curve center about 2.

The deck must have some way to beat combo, as if you want to play a glass cannon, play goblins- it has a much better clock, and at least has the possibility to goldfish on turn 3/4 with a godhand. Rebels might be lucky to goldfish in 6 turns with an aggro a hand as it can muster. Cannonist is not a rebel, but it does have synergy with not having to play more than one spell a turn, ('recruiting') while beating for two, jumping in via vial in response to an LED being played (which usually happens with Infernal in hand) and carrying jitte, so IMO is a better slot than Arcane lab/rule of law as it is never completely dead. The WB version runs 7 discard main, which is likely not quite going to get there against combo G1, but with 7 discard AND cannonist post-board, makes the MU winnable at least. WW list has chalice + cannonist. I personally like the BW list, as big game hunter is sick against most of the field, and can be tutored for and recurred, unlike retribution of the meek. (the WoG this deck should have tested in place of the symetrical wrath discussed on the first three pages.) The upside of the WW version is only cannonist, vial, jitte, and waste cost more than $5, and none more than $10. (unless the price of jitte has spiked in the past year.)

Let me know what you think.

BTW wincons in WW: gliders/jitte, wincons in WB: mainly blightspeaker

EDIT: -1 crappy rebel, +1 mirror entity in both lists. Forgot about him being the best wincon rebels can muster.

Captain_Morgan

11-15-2008, 02:43 PM

Radley

11-15-2008, 08:26 PM

I was thinking of B/W variant, but most of the Black rebels suck minus one that is okay against goyf. I'm still of the opinion that it'll take another Mercadian Block to even give rebels an option. The creature type just isn't used as compared to goblins.

ye, i don't think they'll make more rebels that is made for aggro, rebels needs to establish control to recruit then attack. well, at least rebels are much better than dwarves ahahahahaha :laugh:

i only see the possibility to abuse ramosian sergeant and put alot of 2cc like steadfast guard, whipcorder, knight of the holy nimbus and blade of the sixth pride. amrou scout might also be good as a two of as there's no decent 3cc rebel worth putting in deck, lin sivvi is too slow, the gliders are too slow aswell only mirror entity is worth searcing for.

rebels totally loses to storm based decks, but do good against other aggro. first turn lackey can be chumped blocked w/ no worries as u got recruiters. mother of runes can take care of lackey if u went first. true believer might also be good against combo.

what rebel lacks is another ramosian sergeant-like recruiter. rishadan ports and waste lands are totally needed for early control.

hrm, geddon/stax is doing well against combo decks because of the amount of combo hate in their deck, maybe it might just work for rebel but not including smokestack. we can add trinisphere, chalice of the void, Ethersworn Canonist, glowrider?

I'm really desperate to make rebel do good in legacy haha.

IMO white stacks is best a 'geddon stax, magus of the tabernacle and more synergy within the stacks archetype makes for a more consistant and powerful deck than a stacks shell with 7slots sacrificed to fit in a rebel chain.

My take on WW rebels:

// Lands
4 [TE] Wasteland
14 [CS] Snow-Covered Plains
3 [CS] Scrying Sheets

// Creatures
2 [NE] Lin Sivvi, Defiant Hero
4 [MM] Ramosian Lieutenant
4 [MM] Ramosian Sergeant
4 [ALA] Ethersworn Canonist
4 [TSP] Knight of the Holy Nimbus
1 [TSB] Defiant Vanguard
1 [MM] Nightwind Glider
1 [FNM] Whipcorder
1 [MM] Thermal Glider
1 [TSP] Children of Korlis

// Spells
4 [DS] AEther Vial
4 [CST] Swords to Plowshares
3 [VI] Retribution of the Meek
2 [FUT] Bound in Silence
3 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte

// Sideboard
SB: 3 [10E] Aura of Silence
SB: 3 [MM] Thermal Glider
SB: 4 [MR] Chalice of the Void
SB: 2 [ALA] Relic of Progenitus
SB: 3 [PY] Abolish

WB rebs:

// Lands
1 [ON] Polluted Delta
4 [R] Scrubland
2 [ON] Windswept Heath
2 [ON] Flooded Strand
1 [ON] Bloodstained Mire
4 [6E] Plains (4)
3 [PT] Swamp (3)
4 [TE] Wasteland

// Creatures
1 [ON] Whipcorder
1 [PLC] Big Game Hunter
4 [MM] Ramosian Sergeant
4 [PLC] Blightspeaker
2 [NE] Lin Sivvi, Defiant Hero
1 [TSP] Children of Korlis
4 [TSP] Knight of the Holy Nimbus
1 [MM] Thermal Glider

// Spells
3 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
4 [DS] AEther Vial
4 [CST] Swords to Plowshares
3 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
3 [LRW] Thoughtseize
4 [AP] Gerrard's Verdict

// Sideboard
SB: 3 [MM] Thermal Glider
SB: 1 [PLC] Dunerider Outlaw
SB: 4 [GP] Leyline of the Void
SB: 4 [ALA] Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 3 [PY] Abolish

I abolish as almost a necesity, as it kills both CB and Engineered plague while still not sucking hardcast for 1WW, and IMO disenchant has perhaps a %20 chance of hitting a CB as thresh curve center about 2.

The deck must have some way to beat combo, as if you want to play a glass cannon, play goblins- it has a much better clock, and at least has the possibility to goldfish on turn 3/4 with a godhand. Rebels might be lucky to goldfish in 6 turns with an aggro a hand as it can muster. Cannonist is not a rebel, but it does have synergy with not having to play more than one spell a turn, ('recruiting') while beating for two, jumping in via vial in response to an LED being played (which usually happens with Infernal in hand) and carrying jitte, so IMO is a better slot than Arcane lab/rule of law as it is never completely dead. The WB version runs 7 discard main, which is likely not quite going to get there against combo G1, but with 7 discard AND cannonist post-board, makes the MU winnable at least. WW list has chalice + cannonist. I personally like the BW list, as big game hunter is sick against most of the field, and can be tutored for and recurred, unlike retribution of the meek. (the WoG this deck should have tested in place of the symetrical wrath discussed on the first three pages.) The upside of the WW version is only cannonist, vial, jitte, and waste cost more than $5, and none more than $10. (unless the price of jitte has spiked in the past year.)

Let me know what you think.

BTW wincons in WW: gliders/jitte, wincons in WB: mainly blightspeaker

you've got a nice list but i tell you that u wont be able to use blightspeaker's first ability i know that because you'll be recruiting instead but i think that's better than the other 2cc recruiter but not at all times especially when your opponent SBed engineered plague. the discard strat is good :) need to test it if it would be good.

I really hope wizards gives us another 1cc recruiter, i hope that's not by the time that the scientists have discovered that unicorns actually existed.

my list so far:
lands: 20
10 plains
2 gaea's cradle
3 flagstones of trokair
4 ancient tomb
3 rishadan port

creatures: 19
4 ramosian sergeant
4 ramosian liuetenant
2 lin sivvi
1 mirror entity

4 ethersword cannonist - anti combo
4 mother of runes - mvp in early game

artifacts: 16
4 tangle wire - buys you more time
4 trinisphere - you recruit from library anyway
4 aether vial - you don't want to cast from hands as you'll be using mana for recruiting

4 mox diamond - speeds up the deck

enchantments: 1
1 bound in silence

Sideboards:
3 ethersword cannonist
4 pithing needle
4 thorn of amethyst
4 defense grid

the only anti-synergy in the deck is trinisphere but it also has positive side for you as you'll be recruiting from your library instead anyway. was thinking of adding chalice but it's too much of a risk i think.

another 1 which is more aggressive

lands: 20
10 plains
4 flagstones of trokair
2 gaea's cradle
4 rishadan port

creatures: 23
4 ramosian sergeant
3 ramosian leiutenant
3 defiant falcon
2 mirror entity
4 holy knight of the nimbus
4 blade of the sixth pride
4 ethersworn cannonist

artifacts: 8
4 aether vial
4 chrome mox

sorceries: 4
4 armageddon

undecided:
4 swords to plowshares or umezawa's jitte

SB:
depends on meta.

Captain_Morgan

11-16-2008, 10:23 AM

I don't think it's so much the lack of aggro content, it's the ability on the upperscale to whip out something large. Jhoval Queen just doesn't cut it, and was only good versus Stasis really and even then it was rarely played around Mercadian.

The way I found to build around was to utilize the Rebel base recruiting to use as a swarm mechanic, however if there was a mass zapper on the board I would rotate to a different monster. I used to use Morphlings and/or Masticores as the big "what the hell, I thought that was a rebel deck?" motiffe. However, both of those suck currently.

I'm thinking perhaps to chain chump block, then utilize delve maybe in a pinch with Tombstalkers might work.

I still think that the Stax shell is weakening the effect, going Red/White opens up Ajani Vengeant and slows down the oponent too and then goes to an Armageddon. I'll try something out later, think I'll dub it "Krav Maga."

Hanni

11-18-2008, 12:36 PM

I like Rebels and I think the concept can be relatively competitive. You simply need to accept the fact that your game 1 against combo is going to be fairly bad, and sideboard appropriately. Against just about everything else, the deck is stronger without running control.

Simply put, the deck as aggro/weenie is not attempting to actually win with 2/2 beats like Whipcorder/KotHN. Instead, the deck is just trying to play defensive with Whipcorder/KotHN and etc until it has enough Rebels in play to put a Mirror Entity into play ftw. The deck is basically aggro/combo; the deck is highly defensive against opposing aggro and aggro/control and extremely resilient to opposing aggro/control and control. The most difficult matchups are faster combo decks (turns 1-3).

To battle combo, the deck can run 4 maindeck Gaddock Teeg with 4 Chalice and 4 Trinisphere in the sideboard. That has been sufficient for me in previous playtesting.

Going a white stax route with the deck (maindeck) is a possibility, but at that point, why not just play Armageddon Stax?

Mordel

11-18-2008, 04:03 PM

If there was going to be any splashing done in this deck, I would defnitely consider green before black. Cradle is already in the build if a metagame allows for it to be used, Gaddock Teeg helps with combo(as Hanni pointed out) and goyf is there if you want an extra creature that can be added to the deck irrationally, as well as choke and other random sideboard stuff. Black gives you tombstalker, which eats rebels that could be recycled with Sivvi and takes two black mana, discard and admittedly good sideboard(but sort of narrow unless my memory isn't working, which could be the case right now) stuff.

If I was going to tinker with rebels, I would probably go along the path of least resistance first, which in my opinion is green, if you want a splash colour and if things are going horrible and stuff needs fixing, you have black. Dunerider outlaw would be kind of neat to have for goyfs, but then again he will rarely be killing them...unlike defiant vanguard, which I loved so fucking much in my counter-rebels deck.

Hanni

11-18-2008, 05:45 PM

Or, instead of worrying about trying to kill Goyfs, you can tap them down with Whipcorder, or block with Knights of the Holy Nimbus (when the opponent doesn't have excess mana available), until you can just alpha strike with Mirror Entity ftw. If you really want a permanent answer, Defiant Vanguard does that just fine (as you mentioned) and doesn't require splashing an additional color.

The reason Gaddock Teeg makes sense over other control options, at least maindeck, is because it doubles over as a creature, which progresses the gameplan with Mirror Entity, and can be cast via Vial. The ability for Teeg to shut down Wrath of God, Engineered Explosives, FoW, etc is also relevant.

Radley

11-18-2008, 08:22 PM

To battle combo, the deck can run 4 maindeck Gaddock Teeg with 4 Chalice and 4 Trinisphere in the sideboard. That has been sufficient for me in previous playtesting.

Going a white stax route with the deck (maindeck) is a possibility, but at that point, why not just play Armageddon Stax?

btw, i abandoned the plan of using stax in md.

but using trinisphere in md isnt a bad idea as you recruit anyway. chalice might be good in sb but definitely not in md as its a big risk. tangewire is also nice. im thinking about less rebel, more control in MD then finish off with mirror entity.

and a counter-rebel might also be good but it doesnt protect for long time.

i lost hope for rebel before but mirror entity is just soo fucking good and we can search for it.

Mordel

11-18-2008, 08:22 PM

Radley

11-18-2008, 09:27 PM

Black seems like a messy splash anyway. Green also allows for good old grip or a split between seals if you want to go the proactive route.

If everything goes properly, the rebel engine should be running by the time a goyf is actually intimidating too...chump, chump, vanguard etc.

Rebels seems neat.

rebel is really good against other aggro. tarmo is very easy to control, just need a whipcorder to ta it, and u can just get it with a recruiter. dreadnought can also just be tapped. just dunno if mother of runes should be included but it would definitely protect you from stifle/dread and it can bloack/protect and it can protect against burn and anything that targets creatures provided that you casted mother already.

The_Red_Panda

11-18-2008, 10:29 PM

just dunno if mother of runes should be included but it would definitely protect you from stifle/dread and it can bloack/protect and it can protect against burn and anything that targets creatures provided that you casted mother already.

There is no color that mother of runes can name to keep the dreadnought at bay. If you are referring to mother's ability to give the dreadnought Pro-Blue, this also does not work, as stifle does not target dreadnought, but a triggered ability that dreadnought puts on the stack. Simply put, mother of runes is nothing but a tasty snack in the avenue of destruction carved by the Dreadnought.

EDIT: Not to mention that Mother of Runes says creature "You control"; I should RTFC.

rebel is really good against other aggro. tarmo is very easy to control, just need a whipcorder to ta it, and u can just get it with a recruiter.

There is a very slim chance that you will be able to tap all the creatures an aggro deck throws at you, and an even more slim chance that whipcorder will live to tap that creature again.

Radley

11-18-2008, 10:47 PM

If you are referring to mother's ability to give the dreadnought Pro-Blue, this also does not work, as stifle does not target dreadnought, but a triggered ability that dreadnought puts on the stack.

ok. so mother is definitly out ^^

There is a very slim chance that you will be able to tap all the creatures an aggro deck throws at you, and an even more slim chance that whipcorder will live to tap that creature again.

so you opponent will lose 1 removal spell for a tapper. what if i got a recruiter out? would they kill the tapper first rather than a recruiter? in my experience, theyll kill the recruiter first. pls. give an example why would this not work. tombstalker, tarmogoyf, dreadnaught, terravore is tappable. if they use mass removal, u can still recover pretty fast. and the inclusion of swords to plowshares will keep you at bay from dreadnaught and tarmo.

The_Red_Panda

11-19-2008, 03:00 AM

Dreadstill goes first. They play a land, pass. You play a land, Ramosian whatever, that fetches with CMC 2 or higher. You pass. They play a land, dreadnought-stifle. They pass. You untap, do not have three mana, and proceed to pass/play useless rebel. They untap, force you to suck twelve. You play a land, find whipcorder, and pass. They untap, your whipcorder has no haste, they kill you.

You go first. You play land, recruiter, pass. They play land, pass. You play land, useless rebel, pass. They play dreadnought, pass the turn. You untap, play land and fetch whipcorder, pass the turn. They play any generic removal spell that can kill a white creature with 2 toughness. Your whipcorder has no haste, so you suck twelve. They pass the turn. You fetch another whipcorder, but lo and behold, it has no haste. You suck another twelve. You die.

Note that in each of these situations, Dreadstill could have easily dazed/forced the recruiter, stifled the first fetch trigger (that buys enough time to kill you) or found any number of Engineered explosives/Pyroclasm/Firespout/Echoing Truth/ect. and that would have shut you down just as easily.

Radley

11-19-2008, 03:11 AM

gnat

11-19-2008, 12:42 PM

Maëlig

11-19-2008, 03:03 PM

I think a single Big Game Hunter maindeck will help a lot... He rather Owns fatties like dreadnought, goyf, tombstalker. On the contrary; it sucks to draw into it as it will most likely be a dead card.

It's one of those cards that has always been 'on the edge' for rebel decks (without a black splash obv). I would give it a try, if you draw into it you always have a chance to have a vial active at that time, so it's not that bad.

Radley

11-20-2008, 05:18 AM

It's one of those cards that has always been 'on the edge' for rebel decks (without a black splash obv). I would give it a try, if you draw into it you always have a chance to have a vial active at that time, so it's not that bad.

if you will use masticore, there's a chance you'll discard it then u can put it back with lin sivvi on library then recruit for it. but to do that, you'll need alot of mana ^^. my rebel deck uses masticore, well, masticore is really nice, it's immune to snuff out and pact of negation. it regenerates, and is solid for 4/4 and it shoots 1 dmg for 2 mana. i don't know if it will suit the deck. in my experience masticore does alot for the deck because it gives the opponent something to worry about instead of my rebels. it's probably not a good idea.

Mordenkaynen

11-20-2008, 10:00 AM

Quote:Originally Posted by Maëlig
It's one of those cards that has always been 'on the edge' for rebel decks (without a black splash obv). I would give it a try, if you draw into it you always have a chance to have a vial active at that time, so it's not that bad.

if you will use masticore, there's a chance you'll discard it then u can put it back with lin sivvi on library then recruit for it. but to do that, you'll need alot of mana ^^.
Omg! Did I misunderstand smth or you don't remember that Big Game Hunter have madness?

Edit: yeah, I realized the stupid thing myself 20 minutes ago) sorry)

Radley

11-20-2008, 10:44 AM

Omg! Did I misunderstand smth or you don't remember that Big Game Hunter have madness?

if u know how to pay black mana with all the white resources you have then you can call me an idiot.

Mantis

11-20-2008, 11:01 AM

The one thing that would make this deck worthwhile to play for me, would be Children of Korlis + Ramosian Sergeant combo. 4 Sergeant is mandatory and I think I would run 4 Children as well. Children is awesome against combo and is just an awesome one drop against decks such as burn.

I would run Lin-Sivvi as a two-of so you can create a lock with Children + Sivvi, I could see this being really good actually. I might actually give that a spin as it seems promising.

The deck probably needs some additional speed so Chrome Mox or Ancient Tomb may be required. Vial is a given ofcourse and shouldn't be less than a 4-of.

Oh yeah, and Bound in Silence is bonkers, why don't you run that seriously..

hi-val

11-20-2008, 11:33 AM

Another thing to consider is that Lin Sivvi recycles all the Tribal spells like Crib Swap or Inversion. Unfortunately, all the Rebels have been changed to only recruit Rebel permanents, otherwise the deck would be insaaaaaane. It may not be worthwhile to run Swap by itself, but knowing that you'll have an endless supply could change that.

You can also put the Life combo together with Rebels.

Mordenkaynen

11-20-2008, 12:37 PM

What about Darksteel citadels in those Geddon versions?

Barsoom

06-13-2009, 11:53 AM

I'm posting here only to share with you all my personal take on Rebels, a deck that i'm playing from Nemesis itself, one of my "pet" decks, always funny to play with.

Decklist

4 Ramosian Sergeant
4 Ramosian Lieutenant
2 Lin Sivvi, Defiant Hero
3 Whipcorder
3 Masticore
3 Cursed Scroll
1 Thermal Glider
1 Nightwind Glider
1 Outrider en-Kor
1 Task Force
1 Mirror Entity
1 Jhovall Queen

4 Parallax Wave
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Disenchant

17 Plain
4 Gaea's Cradle
2 Miren, the Moaning Well

Well, some things to note:
Life Combo = Outrider en-Kor + Task Force + Miren, pretty simple to make cause they are rebels, plus they can block 2 creatures of any size, and the redirection damage of the Outrider is useful on his own, specially with the Gliders.
Mirror Entity Combo, if you have the Cradle in play too you can swing for 20+ easily.
Parallax Wave seems junk but it's not, it can stall the game for some turns till you stabilize the battlefield and win; Rebels is one the best Comeback decks, my playstyle with this deck is trying to stall the game on early turns, then assembling Life or Mirror Combos, or getting contol of the battlefield with Masticore&Cursed.
The longer the game takes, the better is for Rebels.
Cursed Scroll slot can be Knight of the Holy Nimbus if you want to run more creatures, i'm not sold on this, plus i own 4 Cursed Scrolls and i don't know where to play them, so here they are.
Jhovall Queen well, ahah, i love this card for no particular reason.
Combo Matchups are of course usually awful, but really who care, this is a pet deck in the end; i think that Children of Korlis can be useful versus combo, i never tested it cause there are very little presence of combo decks here, so i don't really care.

Mystical_Jackass

06-13-2009, 10:13 PM

That seems like a pretty fun deck, I agree with Rebels being slow though in this format.
I really think it'd work much better using the Landstill shell that uses counters and small removal like stp's, etc. Then a few muta & factories, possibly even crucible against all the wastes in this format. Almost even suggest tangle wire to stall them out a few on top of using standstill. Lin Sivi could work much like Elspeth, locking opponent down but the decks just too fragile now and you can't even block and cast on the stack anymore, I dunno, suxor.

Poron

06-14-2009, 10:18 PM

against combo play Ethersworn Canonist... not a rebel but it works

(nameless one)

06-14-2009, 11:11 PM

Ive actually experimented with Rebels but never had time to thoroughly playtest it.

The shell ran like this:

12x Plains
3x Flagstones of Trokair
3x City of Traitors

4x Weathered Wayfarer (i know hes not a rebel)
4x Ramosian Sergeant
4x Whipcorder
4x Knight of the Holy Nimbus
2x Dunerider Outlaw

4x Isochron Scepter
3x Scroll Rack

4x Swords to Plowshare
3x Orim's Chant
3x Abeyance
3x Tithe
2x Armageddon
2x Wrath of God

Its basically cheap control... never played it on a real tourney but it was doing okay on little playtest that i did...

I was also anticipating Silence from M10...

Indykid Vago

09-17-2009, 01:57 AM

I've been playing a Mono W Rebel list and have has some success. I have a very open meta but it's heavy on Aggro-Control. Thats why I have the MD Mother of Runes in here.

My list...

Manabase : 25
9 Plains
3 Flagstones of Trokair
1 Karakas
1 Eiganjo Castle
1 Mistveil Plains
3 Mishra's Factory
4 Wasteland
3 Gaea's Cradle

Creatures : 22
4 Mother of Runes
4 Ramosian Sergeant
2 Defiant Falcon
2 Ramosian Lieutenant
1 Defiant Vanguard
2 Lin Sivvi, Defiant hero
1 Children of Korlis
1 Whipcorder
1 Dunerider Outlaw
1 Thermal Glider
1 Nightwind Glider
2 Mirror Entity

Other Spells : 13
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Oblivion Ring
3 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Cataclysm

I run Cataclysm since it is the only reset button, and for the dream of a resolved Cataclysm with Sivvi, Jitte, O-ring and Cradle in play. Ichorid is not played in my meta so I can devote space to run the life combo SB. I'll also note that the life combo comes in vs any deck that runs Engineered Plague, which is a nice plus. If you expect a lot of Combo in your area, just give up on this deck cause it rolls over to combo. I've tested 3 Children of Korlis (+2 in SB) and 4 Abeyance (4 in SB) in place of the life combo but it's really no help.

The Sideboard : 15
4 Condemn
1 Task Force
1 Outrider en-Kor
4 Mana Tithe
1 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Disenchant

Mana Tithe is nice, but mostly unnecessary. More meta hate could easily go into this slot, but Mana Tithe is nice when on the play. I've also tested a Enlightened Tutor / Toolbox SB and that's starting to show promise. It's probably a stronger choice in a more predictable Meta then running the life combo.

My take in this deck is that it IS slow (as everyone here has already brought up countless times), but it being slow is only a drawback against combo. If you expect a lot of combo just play something else.

I personally love my MD Dunerider Outlaw. With Tarmogoyf running rampant this is nice to have.

I wonder what Zendikar will add, if anything to this archetype.

Hanni

09-17-2009, 03:56 AM

Friggin love Rebels. Was my favorite deck back when I played t2 in Masques Block wayyyy back when.

There's several ways to go about it:

Vial Rebels
Rebels Stax
Rebels Combo
Counter Rebels

I've toyed around with all 4 of the subtypes, all are fun to play. I've listed my other variants in this thread before, but I don't think I've ever listed my Counter Rebels variant in this thread.

Without further ado:

U/W Counter Rebels

// Lands
4 [ON] Flooded Strand
2 [ON] Polluted Delta
2 [ON] Windswept Heath
4 [R] Tundra
2 [MI] Island (2)
2 [U] Plains (3)
4 [4E] Mishra's Factory

// Creatures
4 [MM] Ramosian Sergeant
4 [MM] Ramosian Lieutenant
2 [NE] Defiant Falcon
1 [NE] Lin Sivvi, Defiant Hero
4 [FNM] Whipcorder
1 [LRW] Mirror Entity

// Spells
4 [BD] Brainstorm
4 [OD] Standstill
4 [DD2] Daze
4 [6E] Counterspell
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [U] Swords to Plowshares

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [TSP] Children of Korlis
SB: 1 [MM] Nightwind Glider
SB: 1 [MM] Thermal Glider
SB: 1 [NE] Defiant Vanguard
SB: 4 [ARB] Meddling Mage
SB: 4 [ALA] Oblivion Ring
SB: 3 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte

Pretty straight forward. 11 recruiters makes the majority of the guys you drop able to grab more dudes. Grab a small rebel army, drop Mirror Entity ftw. Whipcorder plays creature control, which is great in this Tarmogoyf infested metagame. If all else fails, Defiant Falcon gets in there with flying damage. 16 creatures is nice, tight, and concise. Nothing fancy about it. The resiliency of the Rebel engine is something to be desired; it's really damn hard to get rid of the guys. The blue compliment suppliments this strategy by adding consistency with Brainstorm (amazing in here). No point in not running Standstill, when Ramosian Sergeant basically reads AEther Vial. The countermagic suite helps further increase the resiliency of the rebel base as well as protect against bombs. Sword to Plowshares round out the U/W Aggro/Control package.

Solid matchups all around. The decks a bit slow on take off, so surviving early is crucial. If it can manage to do that, it will usually overpower any deck it's playing against.

Hanni

09-22-2009, 12:21 AM

You wanna know what's so sad? When I first got into the format back in 2005/2006, I came in after Extended rotated out. However, I was a casual player back then, and entered the format initially playing U/W Counter Rebels, which was my favorite deck of all time. I was clearly a noob back then, and wasn't that great at magic fundamentals. After failing to make it competitive, with my limited knowledge of everything, I switched over to UWb Fish and my direction went from there.

Looking back on things, U/W Counter Rebels would have dominated the old Goblins/Threshold/Solidarity metagame so badly. Every maindeck card minus Mirror Entity was printed and legal back then.

You completely own Threshold. With Factory blocking Geese, with Whipcorder tapping Werebear/Enforcer, they had nothing. They can't counter your guys once the engine gets going, you out-card advantage them rediculously with recruiting + Standstill, and Defiant Vangaurds out of the board just continue the slaughter.

Against Goblins, you have a multitude of answers for 1st turn Vial or Lackey. You can tempo them with StP, FoW, Daze, and Stifle, and you keep up with them in card advantage and creatures in play. Since the deck is defensive, it can hold Goblins off for a long time. Whipcorders tap them down, you can trade with Rebels, and Thermal Glider is an absolute beating. The full playset of Thermal Gliders is so strong against them that you don't even need Umezawa's Jitte or Tividar's Crusade, though you could run those as well.

Against Solidarity, you run 20 creatures to put them on a clock, which should be relatively similar to Threshold's back then (maybe a tad slower), and you pack similar countermagic. Stifle keeps them tempo'd off lands while you beat down with guys. Postboard, you gain Meddling Mage, which shuts down High Tide.

Against Deadguy, which would be your worst matchup, Stifle and Daze attempt to keep your lands protected. Their mana denial strategy is their most devastating one against you. If you can survive that, you outclass their guys over and over. Cursed Scroll may be something to watch out for. Pithing Needle out of the board could be a great idea, but Disenchant would probably be better overall. Divert could also be strong here. Possibly just going with Nightwind Glider could work. Definitely the worst matchup, but still very winnable. I imagine many sideboard cards would be dedicated to this matchup.

Against control, which included Rifter, MWC, and Threshold at the time (I believe), Rebels are insanely resilient to removal. With Factory vs sweepers, countermagic backup, and the "just won't die" recruiting annoyism, you can continue to push damage through while they sit there and figure out how to stop your shennanigans. Standstill is a wrecking ball here, even against Landstill. For the most part, a good matchup. Meddling Mage out of the sideboard could potentially shut down some of their removal, though their may have been better sideboard options.

All in all, I really wish I would have pursued Goblins back then. Completely busted deck for that meta and, man... I wish I knew then what I knew now.

Here's what the old Rebels deck would have looked like:

U/W Counter Rebels
Circa 2006

Lands (20)
4 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta
2 Windswept Heath
4 Tundra
2 Island
2 Plains
4 Mishra's Factory

Creatures (16)
4 Ramosian Sergeant
4 Ramosian Lieutenant
2 Defiant Falcon
1 Lin Sivvi, Defiant Hero
4 Whipcorder
1 Thermal Glider

Spells (24)
4 Brainstorm
4 Standstill
4 Stifle
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Swords to Plowshares

Sideboard (15)
1 Lin Sivvi, Defiant Hero
3 Thermal Glider
2 Nightwind Glider
2 Defiant Vangaurd
4 Meddling Mage
3 Disenchant

Something along the lines of that. The extra Lin Sivvi would come in against Control. Thermal Gliders comes in for Goblins, possibly Disenchant too for Vial. Nightwind Glider for Deadguy, probably some Disenchants too. Defiant Vangaurd for Thresh, possible Disenchant cause they pack Needles. Meddling Mage for combo, possibly control.

Oh well, live and learn I guess.

(nameless one)

09-23-2009, 12:08 AM

Have you ever tested this deck with the current meta? I have most cards in your list (I don't have a good manabase). Would it be lower than tier 2? Ever tried splashing black?

I would love to a rebel deck in legacy. Right now I'm running Lin Sivvi for EDH.

Hanni

09-23-2009, 12:14 AM

The version with Mirror Entity is solid. I played it on MWS and it's pretty good. Mana denial strategies hurt, other than that, no major glaring weaknesses. Great deck against most of the aggro in the format, good against CounterTop Thresh too (as long as they don't assemble CounterTop before you can get recruiters in play, but you have O Ring postboard). Solid combo matchup, probably folds to Dredge. Aggro Loam is probably a pain in the ass. Definitely Tier 2.

FluffyPinkBunnies

09-23-2009, 01:49 PM

I just played rebels to a Top 4 finish at my local tournament last week. Its a great deck and alot of fun to boot. My current list is probably lookin' janky. Learning that i cannot search for Crib Swap really ruined my mojo, but i still use a single copy even if i can only put it back into my library with Lin Sivvi.(currently thinking about replacing it)
Anyway heres the run down.

Rebels WITH a Cause

3 Lin sivvi, Defiant Hero (The most Badass chick in MTG)
4 Ramosian seargeant (Need a little help Lin?)
4 Ramosian lieutenant (We can help too)
4 Defiant Falcon (yeah, i fly AND search)
2 Whipcorder (Tap the goyf)
1 Aven Riftwatcher (some life, and a blocker)
1 Defiant vanguard (Kill that Fatty!)
2 Thermal Glider (lol, pro Red)
1 Task Force (I'm not gettin bolted)
1 Outrider en-kor (good friends with Task force)
1 Children of Korlis (sacrifice in response to the tendrils copy?)
1 Mirror Entity (Get em PUMPED)

3 Worthy Cause (Task Force dies for a worthy cause indeed)
2 Umezawa's Jitte (rebels need weapons, right?)
2 Sword of Fire and Ice (more weapons, put this on a flyer, no really, do it)
4 Aether Vial (Good when searching just cant cut it)
4 Swords to Plowshares (To the Pasture with you!)
1 Crib swap (Crap now, makes me sad i cant search for this, will replace)

2 Gaea's Cradle ( Entity loves hanging out here and Searching for rebels is easy!)
18 Plains (Duh)

My sideboard needs some work but so far...

4 Story Circle (COP: Whatever i need)
2 nightwind glider (Pro Tombstalker anyone?)
3 Aura of silence (got Stax problems like i do?)
4 Disenchant
2 (Fill your meta slot here!)

Thats my take on these wonderful guys, it seems like we are all going in the right direction. Im still testing parallax wave for the deck among other things. MY current Meta is: Stax(white and a B/R version), Secret Force, Ad nausem, 42 land.dec, burn, and random things from random people. Seems rough i know, but having answers to almost everything in my rebel toolbox comforts me.

kitsunewarlock

09-23-2009, 03:19 PM

I do rebels in EDH...the speed of that format makes them quite good...

Some minor thoughts (I don't know how useful they'll be or not but who knows what you could garner from my wisdom or lackthereforof):

Diamond Valley or Miren is good; I'm glad to see you've included them. Worthy Cause can work too if you find your opponent's Pithing Needle too frequently. Miren is better than Worthy Cause though. Diamond Valley is kinda-sorta-not-quite-but-maybe better than Miren. Although it is $60 and doesn't tap for mana...

Children of Korlis can be recurred if you manage to ramp yourself up with enough mana. That is, you can sac, put on the bottom and then search again and sac to actually get a net gain of life. Multiple Children work for this too.

If you can manage to get enough mana, Changeling Hero can save your Lin-Sivvi or other important creature from spot removal. Just Lin-Sivvi search at Instant speed and champion the targetted creature.

Thousand-Year Elixir can speed up Lin-Sivvi in more ways than one (double searching and searching the turn she comes out).

But like I said, I play EDH. So my tactics are, by defintion of the odd format, drastically different from your own. Hell, I maindeck Life Chisel...

Has anyone tried Rebels with Black though? There's only like 2.5 good black rebels (Blightspeaker, Trapper and MAYBE dunerider). But there might be something else there I'm missing...

(nameless one)

09-23-2009, 03:42 PM

Worthy Cause? What about condemn, would it work here... its works with your Life combo at the same time acts as a sub-par removal

Would Miren the Moaning Well work here for Life combo?

heroicraptor

09-23-2009, 04:13 PM

You can search up Bound in Silence.

Indykid Vago

10-10-2009, 01:27 AM

Mana denial strategies hurt, other than that, no major glaring weaknesses. Great deck against most of the aggro in the format, good against CounterTop Thresh too (as long as they don't assemble CounterTop before you can get recruiters in play, but you have O Ring postboard). Solid combo matchup, probably folds to Dredge. Aggro Loam is probably a pain in the ass. Definitely Tier 2.

I address mana denial with my sb of +3 Enlightened Tutor +1 Sacred Ground +1 Crucible of Worlds. It does the job handily.

As far as Aggro Loam... or any Loam variant really... it's a beating... any help on this would be awesome.

I just played rebels to a Top 4 finish at my local tournament last week. Its a great deck and alot of fun to boot.

Congratulations!!!

My sideboard needs some work but so far...

4 Story Circle (COP: Whatever i need)
2 nightwind glider (Pro Tombstalker anyone?)
3 Aura of silence (got Stax problems like i do?)
4 Disenchant
2 (Fill your meta slot here!)

Thats my take on these wonderful guys, it seems like we are all going in the right direction. Im still testing parallax wave for the deck among other things. MY current Meta is: Stax(white and a B/R version), Secret Force, Ad nausem, 42 land.dec, burn, and random things from random people. Seems rough i know, but having answers to almost everything in my rebel toolbox comforts me.

I used to run a very similar SB, but I had to start taking combo into account so I now run an Enlightened Tutor board. It tests well, far better then my old Life SB. Here is what I'm using currently.

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [US] Absolute Law
SB: 1 [FD] Crucible of Worlds
SB: 1 [SH] Sacred Ground
SB: 1 [SHM] Runed Halo
SB: 1 [MM] Story Circle
SB: 1 [NE] Seal of Cleansing
SB: 1 [ALA] Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 1 [SOK] Pithing Needle
SB: 1 [WL] Aura of Silence
SB: 2 [DK] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 3 [MI] Enlightened Tutor
SB: 1 [OD] Aegis of Honor

I'm debating changing the Seal to a 2nd Aura of Silence. I'll get back to you on that.

There's only like 2.5 good black rebels (Blightspeaker, Trapper and MAYBE dunerider). But there might be something else there I'm missing...

I like Dunerider cause I keep seeing Tarmo's hitting tables left and right :eek: Also, Sergeant can find it, so that is a bonus.

Worthy Cause? What about condemn, would it work here... its works with your Life combo at the same time acts as a sub-par removal

Would Miren the Moaning Well work here for Life combo?

When I was testing the Life combo I had it in the SB and I had 1 Miren MD. It's ok but I think 4 Condemn is probably enough. Please note that only I boarded in The Outrider and The Taskforce when I thought my opponent would be bringing in a Engineered Plague.

My MD hasn't changed since I posted it last page. Just my Sb.

[EDIT]

I wonder what Zendikar will add, if anything to this archetype.

Zendikar gave us diddly squat. lol