Mordenkain
03-07-2007, 03:11 AM
Goodstuff.dec
An old idea that springs to life again!
1.1 Introduction:
What is goodstuff.dec? Goodstuff.dec is a deck that me and a friend has been working on for some time now. The idea is not original at all, the approach is not even much original, but the very nature of the deck makes that it grows stronger for every new card released. As opposed to other types of decks that are based around certain card combos or card mechanics, this deck is based on an idea that can adapt to any cardpool.
So we feel that the deck is ready to try to make an appereance once again, because of recently released cards that has strengthened the deck much.
So, what deck are we talking bout? Read on and find out...
1.2 The Idea:
The whole idea to this deck originated (at least for us) as a attempt to design a ”meta” deck, that had maindeck answers for the most popular decks. But quickly we found out that dedicated hate can be good, but in many matches it was rather poor. This made us slowly change it from dedictated hate deck to a deck featuring more general answers, that made it prepared for every situation.
The idea of ''hate” and ”answers” obviously made the deck have an element of control, which would be stupid to deny by making the deck pure agro or pure combo.Therefore we were to decide wether we wanted the deck to be pure control, agrocontrol or combocontrol. First idea was to use either pure control or combocontrol trying to win without using creatures, which would give us a large advantage against a lot of deck packing creature removal. But it quickly became clear that it was not so easy to do this, as pure control don't really have a creature less win condition and combo wins either tended to be fragile, not able to be put in a controling shell or involving creatures. So we ruled out the creatureless win idea, and decided on using agrocontrol then, as the archetype has proven itself many times, and is easy to fit inside a control shell.
To sum it up: Goodstuff.dec is an agrocontrol deck, built with the idea in mind to be able to hate on the tier 1 decks, while still being able to answer most things thrown at it.
1.3 The name:
Why the name, Goodstuff.dec? Well, when we first made the deck it was a janky pile of a lot of juicy and nice cards, so we decided that it was all goodstuff, which eventually lead to the name.
2.0 The cards:
Instead of posting a decklist right away, I'll go through the developing process of Goodstuff.dec as I think that only people who feels like reading all this and taking the necessary time should be discussing the further development of Goodstuff.dec.
2.1 The color(s):
We decided that blue would be neccesary for control elements, draw and the fact that some of the hate cards we were looking to use were blue. So blue was in there.
Also white were chosen because of available hate and good creature selection.
Now we were trying to decide that wether to add the third color or not, and we decided that to combat agro, we needed more than just what white had to offer. Green was ruled out from the start, firstly because it battles agro decks bad, and it's selection of efficient beaters would make the deck to threshold deck which was not what we were looking for.
So it was either black or red to be added. Black gave both discard and removal, wile red only were given removal. However, discard wasn't really what we were looking for, and the removal tended to be dead against control/combo, while red's removal were stronger and could go for the opponent as well, for reach and easier to race combo while stalling with control.
2.2 The win:
We had decided the deck to be an agrocontrol deck, so the win condition would be with a few, but efficient beaters. This is were the idea of new cards really shined and we started using newer stuff right away: Serra Avenger and Juton Grunt was implanted right from the start. Meddling Mage and Lightning Angel were being tested in the other slots right away. Meddling Mage was eventually moved to SB for reason I shall address later, and Lightning Angel was replaced by good old Efreet for being faster and way easier to cast, while still most importantly was flying.
So:
4 Serra Avenger
4 Juton Grunt
3 Serendib Efreet
2.3 Disruption
While playing blue, Force of Will was really and auto include. Now we wanted some more counters, but Counterspell seemed hard to use with UU casting cost, and Daze seemed a bit weak. Daze is still being condsidered though.
We eventually came up with using Stifle in the other slot, and have never looked back. Stifle is just so god damn amazing. Against fetchlands is a 1cc land destruction, against lackey it's a lesser time walk, it effectively a coutner of matron and ringleader. It can also protect you from wasteland, port for a turn and let your grunt live another turn. Also, it spells doom for a lot of ganky combo decks out there, and is still very useful against solidarity. So all in all, a very solid inclusion!
We needed more disruption, so next in line was Daze. Although Counterspell or Miscalculation is also being considered for slower metas and wasteland light metas. Note that Miscalculation also increases draw.
4 Force of Will
4 Stifle
3 Daze/Miscalculation/Counterspell
2.4 Engine
To keep us running we need some draw spells or spells to filter cards. Combined with our 7 featchlands, Brainstorm is an auto include. In the start we also ran Serum Visions, which was good, but its sorcery speed was making it bad for how the deck uses it's cantrips. For double purposes we included Fire//Ice for both draw and removal/win. Also remember Miscalculation is is an uncounterable instant cantrip.
4 Brainstorm
4 Fire//Ice
2.5 Removal
Playing white gives us Swords to Plowshares as an autoinclude, which without doubt is the best targeted removal in the game. Next we have either Lightning Helix or Lightning Bolt. Helix is abit slower (which can be annoying) and is multicolor as well, but gives us 3 life, which is HUGE in the agro matchup. Also, when going for the dome, it makes the life total swing 6, which is very good for 2 mana. Lightning Bolt on the other hand, is better spot removal for 1 mana, and is one more answer for turn 1 lackey. Were still testing which should be included. Also, Fire//Ice as already mentioned is also in this category.
Since the begining we have abused that our creatures had more than 2 toughness and have main decket Pyroclasm, which against goblins is a oneside Wrath of God and can kill gooses and bears pre threshold. We later discovered that Rough//Tumble did the same, but didnt hurt our creatures at all. Also, Rough//Tumble killed our own Meddling Mages, which caused it to be moved to the SB. We also realized this change was good, since the mathcups you need Rough//Tumble you don't Meddling Mage, and vice versa. We have also condsidered playing Wrath of God, but double white and its casting cost has prohibited its inclusion, although it may still roam aroun in the SB for Angel Stompy matchups and the like.
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Lightning Helix/Lightning Bolt
4 Rough//Tumble
”4 Fire//Ice”
2.6 Manabase
To be concerned about wasteland or not? That was the question we were facing, but it quickly became obvious that if we were to try to protect against wasteland, we should run a lot of basic lands which is not really possible because we need U,R,W, WW and if Counterspell is played UU. So a standard configuration of feathes and duals were decided upon.
1 Plateau
1 Plains
2 Island
3 Windswept Heath
4 Tundra
4 Flooded Strand
4 Volcanic Island
The one Plateu is there for when you really need both R/W or WW and already have a Tundra og and Island.
3.0 The sideboard
The sideboard is a very important part of the deck (duh). In the early stages of development it started out as kind of a hate deck and now much of this hate has been moved to the SB.
After a little tinkering with the SB this is what we came up with:
3 Meddling Mage
3 Pithing Needle
3 Disenchant
3 Tormod's Crypt
3 Engineered Explosives
However it needs more testing so this is not final.
3.1 Card Choices:
Meddling Mage
To begin with these nasty guys was in MD. Meddling Mage can be ridicously overpowered at times but they were moved to the SB because of several reasons:
-They die to Rough/Tumble (that's pretty bad board disadvantage)
-They are somewhat mediocre against some control and aggro variants (not totally useless, but there are a lot of things you'd rather spend your precious mana on)
-During the first match against rogue decks you might not know which card you should disable (this is kind of a lame reason since that rarely happens but some metas they are common at least you'll have to do very intensive research on the latest tech to know what cards almost every deck you'll face relies on)
However in the combo matchup these are one of the first things you side in.
Pithing Needle
These are just mean. They stop powerful cards like Survival, Vial and Jitte before they've ever had a chance to do any good. In fact they were initialy in MD, however these were later moved to SB because of their uselessnes in many control matchups and some agro matchups.
Disenchant
Gets rid of annoying stuff like Chalice, Survival and Jitte. It's pretty much required to have some artifact and enchantment removal at least in the SB as here, opposed to only running creature removal and rely solely on disablers such as Needle and Mage to shut down the many powerful artifacts and enchantments that roam in Legacy.
Tormod's Crypt
It's a serious problem for ********, and some rogue reanimator and combo decks. A fairly good effect for 0 mana. Also with, what seems to be, a wave of new survival-based agro decks we decided to include it.
Engineered Explosives
The only MD removal is Rough/Tumble which only deals 2 damage. This will be enough in many cases but removal for heavier creatures is pretty vital. First we considered Wrath of God but came to the conclusion that Engineered Explosives was better mass removal in this deck. But we're very much open to suggestions for better mass removal against fatties.
3.2 SB cards that didn't make the cut:
Trinisphere, Sphere of Resistance and the like
These powerful cost-increasing artifacts are not in the SB simply because they hurt you as much as most opponents, the advantage you gain is simply too small (or is actually more of a disadvantage in some cases) to include these.
Chill:
Although they seem like a serious threat to mono-red decks my experience is surprisingly that they're in most cases too slow (at least against goblins and burn which is the red decks you'll normally expect to face).
Blue Elemental Blast/Hydroblast and Red Elemental Blast/Pyroblast
These are all realy great counter and removal spells however they simply doesn't do anything that the deck can't already do. Sure they do it faster but that wasn't enough reason to put them in the SB. Anyway BEB can be considered in a Goblin heavy meta since it's a good answer to turn 1 lackey.
Chalice of the Void
It should be pretty clear to everyone that you shouldn't run these but just in case I'll explain the simple reason: Just as with Trinisphere you don't get any advantage at all with this actually you should be affraid of it instead since your 1cc and 2cc spells are vital (this is what Disenchant is for)
Wrath of God, Akroma's Vengeance, Tivadar's Crusade, Nevinyrall's Disk and the like
These are powerful mass removal spells but Engineered Explosives, in this deck, is better than any of them and so far we don't think you'll need more mass removal, but of course you should consider them in an agro-heavy meta (unless you need more removal for creatures of toughness lower than 3 then you should add Pyroclasms instead as additional mass removal).
Arcane Laboratory/Rule of Law and Pyrostatic Pillar
We already have FoW, Stifle and Mages in SB to take care of storm-based combodecks. But of course this is meta dependant if you're seing all kinds of tendrils decks comboing out around turn 3 these will be the first cards to consider putting in the SB.
Also if Rafinity is popular in your meta you should put Energy Flux in SB since it pretty much wins the game when it hits the table.
4.0 Final List
So, where does all this lead us? Let's take a look at the final list:
// Lands
1 Plateau
1 Plains
2 Island
3 Windswept Heath
4 Tundra
4 Flooded Strand
4 Volcanic Island
// Creatures
3 Serendib Efreet
4 Serra Avenger
4 Jotun Grunt
// Spells
3 Fire/Ice
3 Daze
4 Brainstorm
4 Rough/Tumble
4 Stifle
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Lightning Helix
4 Force of Will
// Sideboard
SB: 3 Meddling Mage
SB: 3 Engineered Explosives
SB: 3 Pithing Needle
SB: 3 Disenchant
SB: 3 Tormod's Crypt
5.0 Last Notes
We would like to say though that our testing is still very light, because we lack competent players to test against in our area, so we strongly recommend and hope that you people who have interest in the deck will take some time to test the deck out, and we will be happy to know any results you'll get. Thanks in advance.
- Mordenkain and Pale Moon FTW
An old idea that springs to life again!
1.1 Introduction:
What is goodstuff.dec? Goodstuff.dec is a deck that me and a friend has been working on for some time now. The idea is not original at all, the approach is not even much original, but the very nature of the deck makes that it grows stronger for every new card released. As opposed to other types of decks that are based around certain card combos or card mechanics, this deck is based on an idea that can adapt to any cardpool.
So we feel that the deck is ready to try to make an appereance once again, because of recently released cards that has strengthened the deck much.
So, what deck are we talking bout? Read on and find out...
1.2 The Idea:
The whole idea to this deck originated (at least for us) as a attempt to design a ”meta” deck, that had maindeck answers for the most popular decks. But quickly we found out that dedicated hate can be good, but in many matches it was rather poor. This made us slowly change it from dedictated hate deck to a deck featuring more general answers, that made it prepared for every situation.
The idea of ''hate” and ”answers” obviously made the deck have an element of control, which would be stupid to deny by making the deck pure agro or pure combo.Therefore we were to decide wether we wanted the deck to be pure control, agrocontrol or combocontrol. First idea was to use either pure control or combocontrol trying to win without using creatures, which would give us a large advantage against a lot of deck packing creature removal. But it quickly became clear that it was not so easy to do this, as pure control don't really have a creature less win condition and combo wins either tended to be fragile, not able to be put in a controling shell or involving creatures. So we ruled out the creatureless win idea, and decided on using agrocontrol then, as the archetype has proven itself many times, and is easy to fit inside a control shell.
To sum it up: Goodstuff.dec is an agrocontrol deck, built with the idea in mind to be able to hate on the tier 1 decks, while still being able to answer most things thrown at it.
1.3 The name:
Why the name, Goodstuff.dec? Well, when we first made the deck it was a janky pile of a lot of juicy and nice cards, so we decided that it was all goodstuff, which eventually lead to the name.
2.0 The cards:
Instead of posting a decklist right away, I'll go through the developing process of Goodstuff.dec as I think that only people who feels like reading all this and taking the necessary time should be discussing the further development of Goodstuff.dec.
2.1 The color(s):
We decided that blue would be neccesary for control elements, draw and the fact that some of the hate cards we were looking to use were blue. So blue was in there.
Also white were chosen because of available hate and good creature selection.
Now we were trying to decide that wether to add the third color or not, and we decided that to combat agro, we needed more than just what white had to offer. Green was ruled out from the start, firstly because it battles agro decks bad, and it's selection of efficient beaters would make the deck to threshold deck which was not what we were looking for.
So it was either black or red to be added. Black gave both discard and removal, wile red only were given removal. However, discard wasn't really what we were looking for, and the removal tended to be dead against control/combo, while red's removal were stronger and could go for the opponent as well, for reach and easier to race combo while stalling with control.
2.2 The win:
We had decided the deck to be an agrocontrol deck, so the win condition would be with a few, but efficient beaters. This is were the idea of new cards really shined and we started using newer stuff right away: Serra Avenger and Juton Grunt was implanted right from the start. Meddling Mage and Lightning Angel were being tested in the other slots right away. Meddling Mage was eventually moved to SB for reason I shall address later, and Lightning Angel was replaced by good old Efreet for being faster and way easier to cast, while still most importantly was flying.
So:
4 Serra Avenger
4 Juton Grunt
3 Serendib Efreet
2.3 Disruption
While playing blue, Force of Will was really and auto include. Now we wanted some more counters, but Counterspell seemed hard to use with UU casting cost, and Daze seemed a bit weak. Daze is still being condsidered though.
We eventually came up with using Stifle in the other slot, and have never looked back. Stifle is just so god damn amazing. Against fetchlands is a 1cc land destruction, against lackey it's a lesser time walk, it effectively a coutner of matron and ringleader. It can also protect you from wasteland, port for a turn and let your grunt live another turn. Also, it spells doom for a lot of ganky combo decks out there, and is still very useful against solidarity. So all in all, a very solid inclusion!
We needed more disruption, so next in line was Daze. Although Counterspell or Miscalculation is also being considered for slower metas and wasteland light metas. Note that Miscalculation also increases draw.
4 Force of Will
4 Stifle
3 Daze/Miscalculation/Counterspell
2.4 Engine
To keep us running we need some draw spells or spells to filter cards. Combined with our 7 featchlands, Brainstorm is an auto include. In the start we also ran Serum Visions, which was good, but its sorcery speed was making it bad for how the deck uses it's cantrips. For double purposes we included Fire//Ice for both draw and removal/win. Also remember Miscalculation is is an uncounterable instant cantrip.
4 Brainstorm
4 Fire//Ice
2.5 Removal
Playing white gives us Swords to Plowshares as an autoinclude, which without doubt is the best targeted removal in the game. Next we have either Lightning Helix or Lightning Bolt. Helix is abit slower (which can be annoying) and is multicolor as well, but gives us 3 life, which is HUGE in the agro matchup. Also, when going for the dome, it makes the life total swing 6, which is very good for 2 mana. Lightning Bolt on the other hand, is better spot removal for 1 mana, and is one more answer for turn 1 lackey. Were still testing which should be included. Also, Fire//Ice as already mentioned is also in this category.
Since the begining we have abused that our creatures had more than 2 toughness and have main decket Pyroclasm, which against goblins is a oneside Wrath of God and can kill gooses and bears pre threshold. We later discovered that Rough//Tumble did the same, but didnt hurt our creatures at all. Also, Rough//Tumble killed our own Meddling Mages, which caused it to be moved to the SB. We also realized this change was good, since the mathcups you need Rough//Tumble you don't Meddling Mage, and vice versa. We have also condsidered playing Wrath of God, but double white and its casting cost has prohibited its inclusion, although it may still roam aroun in the SB for Angel Stompy matchups and the like.
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Lightning Helix/Lightning Bolt
4 Rough//Tumble
”4 Fire//Ice”
2.6 Manabase
To be concerned about wasteland or not? That was the question we were facing, but it quickly became obvious that if we were to try to protect against wasteland, we should run a lot of basic lands which is not really possible because we need U,R,W, WW and if Counterspell is played UU. So a standard configuration of feathes and duals were decided upon.
1 Plateau
1 Plains
2 Island
3 Windswept Heath
4 Tundra
4 Flooded Strand
4 Volcanic Island
The one Plateu is there for when you really need both R/W or WW and already have a Tundra og and Island.
3.0 The sideboard
The sideboard is a very important part of the deck (duh). In the early stages of development it started out as kind of a hate deck and now much of this hate has been moved to the SB.
After a little tinkering with the SB this is what we came up with:
3 Meddling Mage
3 Pithing Needle
3 Disenchant
3 Tormod's Crypt
3 Engineered Explosives
However it needs more testing so this is not final.
3.1 Card Choices:
Meddling Mage
To begin with these nasty guys was in MD. Meddling Mage can be ridicously overpowered at times but they were moved to the SB because of several reasons:
-They die to Rough/Tumble (that's pretty bad board disadvantage)
-They are somewhat mediocre against some control and aggro variants (not totally useless, but there are a lot of things you'd rather spend your precious mana on)
-During the first match against rogue decks you might not know which card you should disable (this is kind of a lame reason since that rarely happens but some metas they are common at least you'll have to do very intensive research on the latest tech to know what cards almost every deck you'll face relies on)
However in the combo matchup these are one of the first things you side in.
Pithing Needle
These are just mean. They stop powerful cards like Survival, Vial and Jitte before they've ever had a chance to do any good. In fact they were initialy in MD, however these were later moved to SB because of their uselessnes in many control matchups and some agro matchups.
Disenchant
Gets rid of annoying stuff like Chalice, Survival and Jitte. It's pretty much required to have some artifact and enchantment removal at least in the SB as here, opposed to only running creature removal and rely solely on disablers such as Needle and Mage to shut down the many powerful artifacts and enchantments that roam in Legacy.
Tormod's Crypt
It's a serious problem for ********, and some rogue reanimator and combo decks. A fairly good effect for 0 mana. Also with, what seems to be, a wave of new survival-based agro decks we decided to include it.
Engineered Explosives
The only MD removal is Rough/Tumble which only deals 2 damage. This will be enough in many cases but removal for heavier creatures is pretty vital. First we considered Wrath of God but came to the conclusion that Engineered Explosives was better mass removal in this deck. But we're very much open to suggestions for better mass removal against fatties.
3.2 SB cards that didn't make the cut:
Trinisphere, Sphere of Resistance and the like
These powerful cost-increasing artifacts are not in the SB simply because they hurt you as much as most opponents, the advantage you gain is simply too small (or is actually more of a disadvantage in some cases) to include these.
Chill:
Although they seem like a serious threat to mono-red decks my experience is surprisingly that they're in most cases too slow (at least against goblins and burn which is the red decks you'll normally expect to face).
Blue Elemental Blast/Hydroblast and Red Elemental Blast/Pyroblast
These are all realy great counter and removal spells however they simply doesn't do anything that the deck can't already do. Sure they do it faster but that wasn't enough reason to put them in the SB. Anyway BEB can be considered in a Goblin heavy meta since it's a good answer to turn 1 lackey.
Chalice of the Void
It should be pretty clear to everyone that you shouldn't run these but just in case I'll explain the simple reason: Just as with Trinisphere you don't get any advantage at all with this actually you should be affraid of it instead since your 1cc and 2cc spells are vital (this is what Disenchant is for)
Wrath of God, Akroma's Vengeance, Tivadar's Crusade, Nevinyrall's Disk and the like
These are powerful mass removal spells but Engineered Explosives, in this deck, is better than any of them and so far we don't think you'll need more mass removal, but of course you should consider them in an agro-heavy meta (unless you need more removal for creatures of toughness lower than 3 then you should add Pyroclasms instead as additional mass removal).
Arcane Laboratory/Rule of Law and Pyrostatic Pillar
We already have FoW, Stifle and Mages in SB to take care of storm-based combodecks. But of course this is meta dependant if you're seing all kinds of tendrils decks comboing out around turn 3 these will be the first cards to consider putting in the SB.
Also if Rafinity is popular in your meta you should put Energy Flux in SB since it pretty much wins the game when it hits the table.
4.0 Final List
So, where does all this lead us? Let's take a look at the final list:
// Lands
1 Plateau
1 Plains
2 Island
3 Windswept Heath
4 Tundra
4 Flooded Strand
4 Volcanic Island
// Creatures
3 Serendib Efreet
4 Serra Avenger
4 Jotun Grunt
// Spells
3 Fire/Ice
3 Daze
4 Brainstorm
4 Rough/Tumble
4 Stifle
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Lightning Helix
4 Force of Will
// Sideboard
SB: 3 Meddling Mage
SB: 3 Engineered Explosives
SB: 3 Pithing Needle
SB: 3 Disenchant
SB: 3 Tormod's Crypt
5.0 Last Notes
We would like to say though that our testing is still very light, because we lack competent players to test against in our area, so we strongly recommend and hope that you people who have interest in the deck will take some time to test the deck out, and we will be happy to know any results you'll get. Thanks in advance.
- Mordenkain and Pale Moon FTW