[Discussion] ProsBloom- Viable?

[Jak]

Okay, combo is something I have wanted to get into. I have playtested with stuff like IGGy, TES, and Solidarity. They are all strong, but I wanted something more fun. Something that doesn't have to be fast, but needs to be able to once you get that combo win. Now I have always wanted to try out ProsBloom, but it is very outdated. So I want to update it. Now I have heard of the ProsBloom Enchantress build and that seems interesting. So anybody have a list for that because that would be great to steal ideas from. Well I really want to keep the same combo of

4 Cadeverous Bloom
4 Squandered Resources
4 Prosperity
1-2 Drain Life

I am pretty sure that is what the older lists ran. The 2 major problems with this deck that I see is playing that 5cc enchantment and the damn counterspell. Now I know there has got to be ways to protect it like Xantid Swarm, discard, or counters of your own.

So I propose a decklist like this.

Draw
4 Impulse
4 Brainstorm
4 Infernal Contract

Protection
4 Xantid Swarm
4 Defense Grid

Combo
4 Cadaverous Bloom
4 Squandered Resources
4 Prosperity
2 Drain Life

Accel
2 Lotus Petal

Lands
4 Polluted Delta
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Bayou
3 Underground Sea
3 Tropical Island
3 Swamp
2 Forest
1 Island

Not the greatest list, but it is a starting point. I have not tested this deck a lot and pretty much just tried to add protection to the deck. So are there any suggestions to change the list?

[barron]

I will give it a better look later, but natural balance is a must and I would say, an auto-include. It alows you to combo off on turn 3.

[outsideangel]

Why run Prosperity when you can run Stroke of Genius? It costs an extra card off of Bloom, sure, but it's not symmetrical, which is extremely important against decks with countermagic and instant-speed combo, and can even be used as a kill condition in a pinch.

[Lukas Preuss]

Yeah, Prosperity should be replaced with Stroke, otherwise you would risk the opponent to draw into countermagic and let you fizzle during the combo.

The problem with Natural Balance is that it can only get you basic lands, which is a bad thing in a 3 color deck (less Fetchlands, Duals).

My advise would be to cut both Natural Balance and Squandered Resources since that engine is definitely not very good in Legacy. I saw a build with Life from the Loam once, that used to cycle through its entire library with Life, a cycling land and Bloom, ending the game with a huge Tendrils of Agony. I can't find it, though.

[Illissius]

Second Sunrise is pretty sick with Squandered Resources, and you could even omit the whole Cadaverous Bloom half of the combo. However, I unfortunately don't see traditional engine combos beating out dedicated Storm decks any time soon.

[emidln]

This can easily accommodate a Tendrils of Agony kill.

[barron]

Actually I think I may try to make this deck as competitively as I can, could be a fun project. The original build is illegal now, but I have always enjoyed playing it.

I would think that with this deck you would want to play natural balance and basics. I would say that my favorite thing about solidarity is that I never have to worry about wasteland (mono blue for the win!) and with this deck any mana disruption would really be comparable to a timewalk (like solidarity). I think basics with pitch lands would be the better strategy (maybe with only 2 duals). Natural balance and squandered resources is an *amazing* mana engine as long as you have the basics for it. But i also haven't looked into the lftl option at all.

[solidarity!]

I played prosbloom in the older days and it made me a combo player!

And the old list was with city of solitudes for protection and forces.

Well i am gonna tinker with the natural balance and squandered resources engine since it is fast!

[Deep6er]

You guys know that Natural Balance is symmetrical right? That means there's no way to beat Solidarity. Autolosses seem bad. So, my suggestion (I've worked with this idea before) is the Life from the Loam engine in a 3 color manabase using all 12 cyclers. Unfortunately, you're manabase is atrocious (that was the problem I encountered). The 3rd color was red to play Recoup so you could 'flash Tendrils from the 'yard. Also, Burning Wish was good. So was Swarm. Still, beating Solidarity was just about impossible (what with the ridiculous milling yourself and all). Anyway, figured that was important.

[Finn]

In my experiences trying to make this for Legacy three things became clear:

1. You are better off playing this just powering out a Cadaverous Bloom, and not bothering with Natural Balance, Squandered Resources, etc.
2. Cut the Blue entirely. Black has plenty of good draw for these purposes such as Promise of Power, Infernal Contract, and Skeletal Scrying.
3. The better the deck becomes, the more it looks like a Storm deck. That was when I quit it.

[iOWN]

I've tested a deck that was similar to what some people are suggesting - actually a few decks; one was a Turboland drawing engine with Tendrils kill, another was just a Bloom-customized Contract Tendrils build that I tried after playing someone from Team Blitzkrieg before they released the list, third an enchantress/Bloom deck now being worked on at Salvation (apparently very similar to a deck posted here by Cavius), and lastly a 3c Loam engine using some Draw4s along with Brainstorm, a few cycling lands and some other utility.

Well anyways, here is some advice I found useful:

1. Adding a third color is pretty much needed. Unless trying for the fast SI-type Tendrils win, it is important to either have an Abeyance effect (Grace/Abeyance/Chant/Mana Short or Swarm like you have) or some kind of protection like Forces.

2. Tendrils is usually a stronger finisher than a life-drain type card. Really, that lets you free up the slots you waste on extra protection of your win condition for acceleration, tutors, and draw.

3. Similar to above, Bloom is also stronger if used earlier on. Waiting till turn 4-5 to combo is much too slow, and will either die to faster aggro packed with disruption or a hand molded with more hate cards. I know Resources lets you go faster, but have found that Ritual effects allow for fizzling without rendering yourself complete food. Turn 2-3 is usually what I tried to get my deck to combo around (depending on build). Resources might have been the best card available for the job way-back-when, but there are better.

I personally like neither Prosperity nor Stroke. Draw4s and other means of drawing (which was always depending on supporting shell) are onesided and help are not so dead before you combo.

@Finn: Why does that mean it can't be viable as a Storm deck?

[barron]

Yeah, natural balance isn't as one sided as the player would like, and I never even fathomed it having a build that would beat solidarity since solidarity seems to have at the very least a 50/50 split against every combo out there, but I think there is something to be said about how you usually don't natural balance until you can combo off and how a lot of decks don't play 5 basics (not that they won't play any). It is also an amazing deck thinner, which is really important since the card draw would be severly handicapped (but not at all inadequate) without blue and the original build had 4 vapirics, which is no longer legal.
I think this deck would have to switch from a combo to a control deck post SB in order to have a matchup against a deck like solidarity. I really don't see this having any advantage against the current storm decks since I can't imagine it being any faster that igg or tes, and I can't see it out manupulating the stack against solidarity, but with the colors and mana engine i do belive it could be a slower combo/control

[Jak]

I really like the idea of a Loam engine. I would not want to make this another Tendrils deck. I mean not every combo deck has to have a storm-based win to be competative. I will definitely switch to stroke. Prosperity was only really in there because of the name and I was thinking of adding Underworld Dreams as an alternate win condition.

So for the deck with Loam. How does this look as a starting point?

Draw
4 Brainstorm
4 Impulse
4 Life from the Loam

Accel
4 Exploration

Combo
4 Cadeverous Bloom
4 Squandered Resources
4 Stroke of Genius
2 Drain Life

Protection
4 Duress
4 Unmask
4 Defense Grid

Tech
4 Regrowth

Lands
6 Cycling Lands
6 Fetches
4 Bayou
6 Basics

I don't know how I would make this more Loam oriented. But it is a good start. Maybe something like this. Just brainstorming here. I would still like to see the enchantress list also. Thoughts?

[Lego]

4 Argothian Enchantress
4 Enchantress Presence

4 Exploration
4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Mirris Guile
4 Elephant Grass
4 Ground Seal
4 Gaeas Touch
3 Squandered Resources
3 Cadaverous Bloom

2 Tendrils of Agony

10 Forest
4 Bayou
4 Windswept Heath
2 Wooded Foothills

I'm headed to bed, so I have no time to talk about this list, but that should help you out a little. It's ridiculously straight forward anyway. I can't even remember how fast it was right now. It can technically win on turn 2 though, which is fun. Let me know if you have any questions about it.

(I know you just wanted to use it for ideas, but if you do decide to play it, fit 4 Duress in the main)

[Jak]

Thanks Lego. I really want to test it. Probably tomorrow. Thanks again.

[Radley]

I can't believe someone thought of the loam engine ^_^. Already thought about that 13 hours ago but have to go to work. But I constructed the decklist while having a break from work. Here is the decklist:

Blooming Loam bombo: G/R/B by radley

spells: 30
3 cadaverous
3 life from the loam
4 squandered resources
4 burning wish
3 death wish
3 recoup
4 exploration
2 revive
4 mox diamond

lands: 30
3 tranquil thicket
2 forgotten cave
3 barren moor
4 gemstone mine
4 wooded foothills
3 bloodstained mire
1 flooded strand
4 Bayou
3 Taiga
3 badlands

SB:
1 cadaverous bloom
1 life from the loam
1 damnation
1 Tendrils of agony
1 demonfire
1 city of solitude
4 extirpate?
1 cranial extraction
1 reverent silence
1 feldon's cane-just in case you need more mana and you're running out of library
2 devastating dreams

SB could be better

This deck has no fear from people who runs extirpate, Remove cadaverous bloom from the game ? Death wish is the answer. Remove LFTL? burning wish, Remove death wish and death wish? burning wish for death wish then wish for cadaverous. Remove loam? burning wish.

So exploration for more speed, Squandered resources can make your combo faster. So tecnhnically, the gameplay is put cadaverous bloom into play then discard 3 land cards(6 mana floating) then cast LFTL(4 mana), return 3 lands, discard 2 lands(6 mana) then cycle(5mana) but dredge for it, and play LFTL(3 mana) then discard 2 lands(7 mana) for cadaverous, cycle(6 mana) then dredge, cast LFTL, discard lands, cycle, dredge, discard lands, cast LFTL, discard 2 land, cycle, dredge, cast lftl.. etc..

You can burning/death wish for tendrils of agony.. The loaming cadaverous bloom loop should be enough for the storm, not counting the explorations and mox diamond that you can cast.

[vigilante]

Do you realise that Cadaverous Bloom removes the cards from the game, meaning that Loam can't return them. The entire premise of your deck's engine is flawed. Fair enough if you want to use Loam/cycling lands to draw into other combo pieces, but Bloom + Loam + cycling lands does not work the way you described above.

[Radley]

Do you realise that Cadaverous Bloom removes the cards from the game, meaning that Loam can't return them. The entire premise of your deck's engine is flawed. Fair enough if you want to use Loam/cycling lands to draw into other combo pieces, but Bloom + Loam + cycling lands does not work the way you described above.

LOL i lose. Just trying to fool someone, I guess i failed ^_^.

The deck idea with stroke of genus except presperity is the best 1 if you really want the draw x cards then remove from the game the cards drawn so you get x mana and then drain life your opponent or make them draw x cards with another stroke of genius.

[vigilante]

Come on...you weren't "trying to fool someone" -- just admit you made a mistake and/or didn't actually read Cadaverous Bloom before you posted your decklist.

[Radley]

Come on...you weren't "trying to fool someone" -- just admit you made a mistake and/or didn't actually read Cadaverous Bloom before you posted your decklist.

How the hell can i be serious if i made the deck in 5 mins. ^_^ Got inspired by magicthegathering's bombo (instead of combo) article.

Prosperity is such a nice draw card, You might not want to play it soon if your opponent has blue splash, you can wait for city of solitude. I suggest putting 4 death wish to search for the deck components. If only burning wish can be splashed, 3 colours is hard enough. You can also put LFTL just to dig your deck. Revive can pick up your cadaverous bloom from grave.

I noticed that this combo is much safer than any other combo decks because It's combo pieces doesn't drop the graveyard, If something does drop, then that means that card is not needed anyway :) e.g. prosperity drops on graveyard, then drain life.

[iOWN]

I don't know how I would make this more Loam oriented. But it is a good start. Maybe something like this. Just brainstorming here. I would still like to see the enchantress list also. Thoughts?

God, I wish I still had a list. Unfortunately my computer crashes almost monthly, and unless I backed it up I end up losing pretty much all of my MWS files. To help, I can remember some cards I found useful:

Krosan Reclamation: I am positive this was a one-of just because it allows you to continue comboing if you dredge all win conditions (including Regrowth) by emptying your library, removing something to flash it back and shuffle Tendrils (also getting +1 Storm) and then cycle a land to draw and finish.

Plunge into Darkness: This kind of sealed the little 'engine' with Reclamation; it lets you pretty much remove your whole deck, assuming you have enough life and a Tendrils in the yard, to find either Tendrils, Regrowth, or Reclamation without having the small possibility of fizzling.

Nightcreep: This thing was awesome. Not sure if it ended up being a sideboard slot over Mana Short, but the best thing is you can remove a card to play it the same turn as Bloom so comboing off wasn't interrupted at all. On the other hand, Short lets you play it during their turn so you don't waste so much mana.

Draw4: These are still a must in my opinion. Getting graveyard reliant completely kills you, so these are a little out. I guess Stroke can do the same, but these really just keep the mana flowing. 3/2 split of Contract/Bargain?

Intuition/Cunning Wish slot: Three of either helps a lot. Intuition can find kill, Bloom, or Loam + Cyclers to completely set up the combo. Wish finds answers (as in Bouncing/killing stuff, combo protection, Stroke), but so does Death Wish on-color. The only flaw I see in Death Wish is incompatibility (spelling?) with Draw4s.

That, and perhaps acceleration in the form of Rituals.

[uanlayen]

ok here is a listing for my prosperous Bloom deck this is the original
deck listing as far as i can remember it.

4 Squandered Resources.
4 Cadaverous Bloom.
4 Natural Balance.
4 Infernal Contract.
4 Meditate.
4 Impulse.
3 Prosperity.
2 Drain Life.
2 Abeyance.
3 Mana Leak.
4 Lim-duls Vault.

4 Gemstone Mine.
4 Undiscovered Paradise.
4 Swamp.
4 Forest.
4 Island.
2 Plains.

I played this deck back in the day not long after it was first out and i matched against it at alot of tournaments now i think this is still viable in a modern format because after all a fast combo deck is a fast combo deck and as long as you go off fast and reliably you should do reasonably well.

Here are some thoughts of mine on how to change this for a modern format like Legacy 1.5. In truth the Prosperity card drawing isnt actually required for the win you only need to get enough cards to drop a Big Drain life so a hand of 11 cards or so not including the Drain is all thats needed. I would seriously think about changing the prosperitys for a set of three wishes also i think Braingeyser is a better choice than stroke or prosperity for the big draws if your determined to stick true to the original deck format.

It is also possible to build a version of this with Lotus petals for some additional speed making a turn 2 kill possible. Which is just Gross for a format outside of type 1 but bear in mind thats with a Dream draw. It is also worth considering ditching the white altogether for some additional counter magic and vice versa ditching the counter magic for more Abeyances. Dark ritual is also another possibility to add speed but with turn 3/4 kills consisently with good draws i really dont think you can add to much speed to the deck with additional mana speed. What your looking for is to tune this deck for current formats against the commonly played problem decks.

Also it is worth considering ditching the Drain Life part of the deck entirely as your kill condition and just aiming to braingeyser or stroke your opponent to death. Seriously worth considering because you can free up two card slots by ditching the Drain life tech and going something like 4 Abeyances and 3 Mana Leaks. Which is a strong counter base to protect your deck with.