[Deck] Solitaire (Enchantress)

[Freggle]

I actually like this list a lot.

Thank you. It's not quite where I would like it but it's approaching it.


Out of curiosity, what do you usually cut for StP?

This is MU dependent. vs. D&T I cut the helm package / vs. Reanimator, shave some numbers but don't usually cut any one thing out.


2 Insight sounds a bit more reasonable, 4of is way too many I think. Especially with 3 RIP and no Sigil. Why 3/1 Banishing Light vs. Oblivion Ring?

I want a split so I can deal with things like Cabal Therapy, or Meddling Mage easier. ....but I prefer Banishing Light because of the opponent clause. Once I was next leveled and got probed by an opponent of Sneak and Show. They saw the O ring. I had already o - ringed their Sneak attack. They cast show and tell. I put in Oring they put in nothing. The only legal target was my other Oring. Therefore they got back their Sneak Attack and promptly won. If those were Banishing Lights that could not happen.

Also, if you need to cast Bashing Light just to draw any our opponent has no non-land permanents in play the trigger fails, but you still draw.

[btm10]

IRT to banishing light, are you sure that there is no trigger to respond to. It has the "when it enters play" wording, which is the same as O ring. My understanding is that it would have to say "as banishing light enters play" for there to be no trigger to respond to, as is the case with pithing needle and phyrexian revoker.

You're right. I haven't been reading it correctly.

[drocker23]

Freggle I just figured out who you were from watching you play on SCG Live. I just now found your Deck Tech video. Nice to put a face to a name.

By the way, when you were talking about combo decks in your deck tech video, did you say "big dick decks" or "big dig decks"?? because it sounded like "big dick decks" and it made me laugh. i was like "OMG he did not just say that!" LOL

Also here is my new build of Enchantress. I've decided to go ahead and revisit the deck just as a fun deck to have to play at local events. Nothing new or fancy about this list, just tried to go for a wide variety of options.

Enchantress (60 Cards)

21 Lands

1 Dryad Arbor
8 Forest
1 Karakas
2 Plains
2 Savannah
3 Serra's Sanctum
4 Windswept Heath

5 Creatures

4 Argothian Enchantress
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

34 Other Spells

1 City of Solitude
3 Elephant Grass
4 Enchantress's Presence
1 Exploration
3 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Helm of Obedience
2 Mirri's Guile
2 Oblivion Ring
1 Replenish
1 Rest in Peace
1 Sigil of the Empty Throne
3 Solitary Confinement
3 Sterling Grove
4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Wild Growth

15 Sideboard

1 Aura of Silence
2 Choke
1 City of Solitude
1 Ground Seal
2 Karmic Justice
4 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Replenish
1 Stony Silence
1 Wheel of Sun and Moon

A couple of notes about this list. 3 win conditions, pretty standard. Sideboard is a little iffy, but otherwise pretty standard. and I've actually been liking the Green Sun's Zenith lately. Makes the deck's openers feel a little more consistant. This is also the first time i've put together an enchantress list that did not splash Blue or Red and as such, like i said before, i just wanted a wide variety of cards and win conditions rather than going all in on one particular strategy such as the RIP/Helm combo or a Living Wish package. Thoughts are appreciated. I was not very impressed with much of anything from this Theros block which was a huge disappointment because I expected big and wonderful things from this block. I am considering maybe playing 61 cards main for either a Moat or Sphere of Safety as the 61st card.

[Freggle]

Freggle I just figured out who you were from watching you play on SCG Live. I just now found your Deck Tech video. Nice to put a face to a name.

By the way, when you were talking about combo decks in your deck tech video, did you say "big dick decks" or "big dig decks"?? because it sounded like "big dick decks" and it made me laugh. i was like "OMG he did not just say that!" LOL

LOL, your not the first to hear it that way but I did say "Big Dig" followed by digging cards (ad nauseam...)

My friends would also play a drinking game to how many times I said "correct."

If you are liking the GSZ's I highly recommend the Gaddock int he board. He will interfere with other cards in your build, but he it so good at what he does it's worth it.

[drocker23]

LOL, your not the first to hear it that way but I did say "Big Dig" followed by digging cards (ad nauseam...)

My friends would also play a drinking game to how many times I said "correct."

If you are liking the GSZ's I highly recommend the Gaddock int he board. He will interfere with other cards in your build, but he it so good at what he does it's worth it.

What would be the recommended cut for the Teeg?

[Freggle]

What would be the recommended cut for the Teeg?

Well, it's difficult to say without understanding your meta and how you currently board. Even saying that it may have been a little unfair for me to suggest something without fully understanding your build. ...but if I had to answer my gut reaction is your City of Solitude main should be a 4th GSZ, and your City in the board should be Gaddock.

Here is why. Although City of Solitude can be powerful under control it's not exactly what you want to be doing with your mana. Lets say you have a city and argothian against a known control opponent. The correct play is to play the City Prior to playing the Argothian to bait the counterspell. If it eats a counterspell then you lost City and "it did it's job." If it wasn't you would likely want it to be an Enchantress effect otherwise you just tempo-ed yourself. (gave up a turn for an undesired result)

GSZ can also make your board hate bears post board more reliable / powerful.

Presenting enchantress effects is more threatening against control then playing City is IMHO because you will run away with the game faster as a result of we draw on cast and not on resolution. I understand that there are other things that City can stop like upkeep Port... However I think Suppression Field is a better answer to all of that becuase it affects your turn and theirs. ...think Sneak Attack and Fetches.

[drocker23]

Well, it's difficult to say without understanding your meta and how you currently board. Even saying that it may have been a little unfair for me to suggest something without fully understanding your build. ...but if I had to answer my gut reaction is your City of Solitude main should be a 4th GSZ, and your City in the board should be Gaddock.

Here is why. Although City of Solitude can be powerful under control it's not exactly what you want to be doing with your mana. Lets say you have a city and argothian against a known control opponent. The correct play is to play the City Prior to playing the Argothian to bait the counterspell. If it eats a counterspell then you lost City and "it did it's job." If it wasn't you would likely want it to be an Enchantress effect otherwise you just tempo-ed yourself. (gave up a turn for an undesired result)

GSZ can also make your board hate bears post board more reliable / powerful.

Presenting enchantress effects is more threatening against control then playing City is IMHO because you will run away with the game faster as a result of we draw on cast and not on resolution. I understand that there are other things that City can stop like upkeep Port... However I think Suppression Field is a better answer to all of that becuase it affects your turn and theirs. ...think Sneak Attack and Fetches.


Meta call? That's a tough one. On a local store level, i'm usually one of the few people actually playing with Blue cards a lot of the time. So perhaps City is a little unnecessary. Suppression Field, Mana Bloom, or Sphere of Safety may just strictly be better in that spot. However if i was at an SCG Legacy Open Trial, I may want some sort of blue hate in the main. There really is no rhyme or reason to my sideboard. Karmic Justice is a card I've never been a fan of especially since abrupt decay got printed. But when you're looking for better options, it's hard to find them. I like the Gaddock Teeg idea though and I will definitely try it out.

[The_Dingo]

Took enchantress to the SCG Open yesterday in Providence RI to a disappointing 4-4-1 finish. Didn't see a single delver of secrets in 9 matches, which was pretty disappointing since that was more or less what I was prepared to play against. My matches were like this:

R1 vs DnT
Won G1 on the play, then floundered and lost games 2 and 3. I hate Thalia

R2 vs DnT
I know this guy, we have played several times before, and we both know what the other is playing. I Won G1, then G2 ended in a draw in extra turns. I hate Thalia.

R3 vs Food chain combo
Lost this one in 2 games. I had helm and RIP in play on T4 but not enough mana to activate the helm. He goes off the next turn.

R4 vs Maverick
Won in 2 games, nearly going to time in G2. Pridemages made the games extra super grindy. I hate Thalia.

R5 vs Shardless Bug
Won G1, then couldn't win a game after that. I think I made a pretty big SB mistake by bringing in leylines of sanctity to try and beat hymn, thoughtseize, jace and lily. Instead what happened was that I couldn't get one in my opener, then proceeded to draw a bunch of them. Oh well. He told me after that he didn't have hymn, but I'm pretty sure I should not have brought the leylines in even if he did have them.

R6 vs DnT
Drew this match losing G1, then going to time but winning with emrakul on T3 of extra turns. I hate Thalia.

R7 Vs manaless dredge
He wins the die roll and chooses to draw, so I put him on manaless dredge immediately. Luckily I look at my first hand and see RiP, which he scoops to as soon as he sees it. G2 I keep a decent hand w/ yet another RiP. He has some outs, so he doesn't scoop immediately, but 2 enchantress effects and a solitary confinement later he scoops.

R8 vs Miracles
I know this guy pretty well, since we have played often at our LGS. He knows exactly how to beat enchantress, and proceeds to do exactly that in 2 games.

R9 vs Astral slide
I also know this guy from my LGS, and he is a really nice guy and tons of fun to play against. He takes G1 pretty easily, clearing my board multiple times w/ pernicious deed, and beating me down w/ a lone eternal witness. G2 and 3 I manage to steal from him through repeatedly casting RIP to clear the GY. He would blow RiP up, and I would tutor or draw into another.

Had a great day despite the poor record, and all of my opponents were great, and really friendly. Also, I hate Thalia.

[Freggle]

Took enchantress to the SCG Open yesterday in Providence RI to a disappointing 4-4-1 finish. Didn't see a single delver of secrets in 9 matches, which was pretty disappointing since that was more or less what I was prepared to play against. My matches were like this:

R1 vs DnT
Won G1 on the play, then floundered and lost games 2 and 3. I hate Thalia

R2 vs DnT
I know this guy, we have played several times before, and we both know what the other is playing. I Won G1, then G2 ended in a draw in extra turns. I hate Thalia.

R3 vs Food chain combo
Lost this one in 2 games. I had helm and RIP in play on T4 but not enough mana to activate the helm. He goes off the next turn.

R4 vs Maverick
Won in 2 games, nearly going to time in G2. Pridemages made the games extra super grindy. I hate Thalia.

R5 vs Shardless Bug
Won G1, then couldn't win a game after that. I think I made a pretty big SB mistake by bringing in leylines of sanctity to try and beat hymn, thoughtseize, jace and lily. Instead what happened was that I couldn't get one in my opener, then proceeded to draw a bunch of them. Oh well. He told me after that he didn't have hymn, but I'm pretty sure I should not have brought the leylines in even if he did have them.

R6 vs DnT
Drew this match losing G1, then going to time but winning with emrakul on T3 of extra turns. I hate Thalia.

R7 Vs manaless dredge
He wins the die roll and chooses to draw, so I put him on manaless dredge immediately. Luckily I look at my first hand and see RiP, which he scoops to as soon as he sees it. G2 I keep a decent hand w/ yet another RiP. He has some outs, so he doesn't scoop immediately, but 2 enchantress effects and a solitary confinement later he scoops.

R8 vs Miracles
I know this guy pretty well, since we have played often at our LGS. He knows exactly how to beat enchantress, and proceeds to do exactly that in 2 games.

R9 vs Astral slide
I also know this guy from my LGS, and he is a really nice guy and tons of fun to play against. He takes G1 pretty easily, clearing my board multiple times w/ pernicious deed, and beating me down w/ a lone eternal witness. G2 and 3 I manage to steal from him through repeatedly casting RIP to clear the GY. He would blow RiP up, and I would tutor or draw into another.

Had a great day despite the poor record, and all of my opponents were great, and really friendly. Also, I hate Thalia.

I like the report, and I'd like to see a list. :smile:

2 D&T matches is a rough start, but winnable. Thalia is an issue at times the best tools (I know of) to directly fight her are Swords to Plowshares, Oblivion Ring/Banishing Light & Karakas. ...and indirectly Suppression Field (vs. Port, Vial, Waste, Mom...) having access to those cards tuned the MU to slightly favorable IMHO.

[The_Dingo]

My decklist:

61 cards maindeck
19 lands
1 Bayou
7 Forest
1 Karakas
1 Plains
1 Savannah
4 Serra's sanctum
4 windswept heath

5 Creatures
4 Argothian enchantress
1 Emrakul, the aeons torn

37 Spells
4 Enchantress' Presence
3 GSZ
2 Sterling grove
1 E tutor
2 RiP
3 Suppression Field
3 Solitary Confinement
3 Elephant grass
2 Oblivion ring
2 Mirri's Guile
4 Wild growth
4 Utopia Sprawl
2 Exploration
1 Sigil of the empty throne
1 Helm of obedience

15 cards SB
4 Leyline of sanctity
1 Humility
1 Enlightened tutor
1 gaddock teeg
1 sphere of safety
1 Oblivion ring
1 Grafdigger's cage
1 Dread of night
1 engineered plague
1 stony silence
1 replenish
1 rest in peace


There was another enchantress player in the room, but I didn't really get a chance to talk. He came over during round nine to say hi, but my attention span was pretty short by that time and it was all I could do to finish the match.

[Wordslinger]

Hi first time poster on the source!

When i built enchantress, i had some pretty serious budget concerns, so my list has some pretty weird choices( for example no fetches makes mirri's guile awkward,cut for sylvan library and suppresion field).

my list looks like this, sometimes it feels awesome, sometimes it feels like garbage, but i always feel like i'm just about to lose.

LANDS
9 forest
4 gemstone mine
4 city of brass
3 serra's sanctum

ENCHANTRESS
4 argothian enchantress
4 enchantress's presence

THE LOCK
2 energy field
3 solitary confinement
3 rest in piece
3 supression field
1 sphere of safety
4 elephant grass


THE ACCEL
4 utopia sprawl
4 wild growth

THE FIND
3 sterling grove
2 sylvan library

THE WIN
2 helm of obedience
1 words of war

THE SIDEBOARD
1 suppresion field
1 rest in peace
1 helm of obedience
2 oblivion ring
2 carpet of flowers /testing this slot
2 choke
3 in the eye of chaos
3 leyline of sanctity / cutting one and seeing how it goes

Playing this deck, the one thing i have learned is that because you're slower than everything else, you have to do something to gain an edge. Mine is to make everything else slower than me.

To that end my mainboard consists of several ways to make them bend over backwards to try to operate, then i just kill them when they tap out to pay for grass/sphere and only have a

soft counter. Then i board into the enchantress version of stax and make my opponent miserable ( have you seen how many brainstorms there are! geez) i have a lot of questions about

how this thing can operate better. Mulliganing is miserable, for example, even if you don't have to do it very often. I've been having mixed success, but 4 tournament <20 person each sample,

so grain of salt? btw if someone tells my how to decktag, i'll edit this post to include them.

[The_Dingo]

my list looks like this, sometimes it feels awesome, sometimes it feels like garbage, but i always feel like i'm just about to lose.

Playing this deck, the one thing i have learned is that because you're slower than everything else, you have to do something to gain an edge. Mine is to make everything else slower than me.



The thing that I've learned about the deck is that the suppression fields and the elephant grasses individually do very little except in some isolated circumstances. It's when you have one of each in play that you really force your opponent to make tough decisions about developing their board by fetching and playing spells, or falling behind in order to get some combat damage in. Either way, they fall behind a little bit, and each turn our odds of establishing a full lock get better and better.

[Watersaw]

I know I said a page or 2 back that 4of Kruphix's Insight is a bad idea but I can't help but try and jam it, because my god this card is AWESOME. Unfortunately you can't just take the full set and slam it in, a few concessions have to be made.

:1: At least one of your win conditions has to be an enchantment. Until we get a better one this defaults to Sigil of the Empty Throne, but that's really not so bad since it also shuts down aggro and wombo-combos with Emrakul, the Aeons Torn.

:2: You need to trim some Enchantress effects. 16 (17 thanks to Sigil) cards that do actual nothing on their own seems silly, especially since 8 of them don't even get you anything immediately. The best cut is probably Green Sun's Zenith, but that means you can't have sideboard Gaddock Teeg. I was trying to figure out a way around this the other day when it hit me.

Kruphix's insight lets us run Spirit of the Labyrinth.

The decks that you would want it against (Sneak and Show, Elves, anything storm) need the card draw and manipulation more than we do. Granted going one a turn hurts but the game should still be winnable with Mirri's Guile and Insight to set up draws and rip through your deck. It may mean more reliance on Enlightened Tutor or Sterling Grove to actually win.

:3: It can potentially be worth 0. You really can't plan around it, you just have to let it ride and hope you can play whatever shows up. Plus you can't chain enchantments into each other as well since it will only ever get you 3 cards. It also gives away information and potentially pitches your other win conditions to your own Rest in Peace. I'm currently running some number of Abundant Growth to hopefully fix this by seeing more cards. A lower curve and one less land might help as well.

I still need to do a ton of testing but I think it has potential. Will report back.

[VsTheWorld]

I'll be playing this at SCG Worcester tomorrow. Stay tuned for updates.

[btm10]

List?

[VsTheWorld]

I started out 4-0, beating Miracles, Merfolk, BUG, and Affinity before getting crushed on camera by Dan Jordan with a VERY strong Uwr Delver draw and proceeding to lose the next three to Imperial Painter, Reanimator, and Sneak and Show. This goes to confirm what we already know: Enchantress is strong against other fair decks and struggles against decks doing broken things. Here's the list:

4 Argothian Enchantress
1 Courser of Kruphix
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

4 Enchantress's Presence
4 Wild Growth
4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Elephant Grass
3 Green Sun Zenith
3 Sterling Grove
3 Solitary Confinement
2 Rest in Peace
2 Exploration
2 Mirri's Guile
1 Helm of Obedience
1 Suppression Field
1 Banishing Light
1 Sigil of the Empty Throne

6 Forest
4 Windswept Heath
2 Savannah
2 Plains
2 Serra's Sanctum
1 Taiga
1 Karakas
1 Dryad Arbor

SB:
2 Swords to Plowshares
2 Choke
2 Stony Silence
1 Blood Moon
1 Humility
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Runed Halo
1 Sylvan Library
1 Replenish
1 Aura of Silence

The sideboard is supposed to have 4 Leyline of Sanctity in place of the randoms (Halo, Aura, Teeg, and Library) but I was unable to get the set I needed today so I made do without. It was never relevant in any matchup.

[Freggle]

I started out 4-0, beating Miracles, Merfolk, BUG, and Affinity before getting crushed on camera by Dan Jordan with a VERY strong Uwr Delver draw and proceeding to lose the next three to Imperial Painter, Reanimator, and Sneak and Show. This goes to confirm what we already know: Enchantress is strong against other fair decks and struggles against decks doing broken things. Here's the list:

4 Argothian Enchantress
1 Courser of Kruphix
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

4 Enchantress's Presence
4 Wild Growth
4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Elephant Grass
3 Green Sun Zenith
3 Sterling Grove
3 Solitary Confinement
2 Rest in Peace
2 Exploration
2 Mirri's Guile
1 Helm of Obedience
1 Suppression Field
1 Banishing Light
1 Sigil of the Empty Throne

6 Forest
4 Windswept Heath
2 Savannah
2 Plains
2 Serra's Sanctum
1 Taiga
1 Karakas
1 Dryad Arbor

SB:
2 Swords to Plowshares
2 Choke
2 Stony Silence
1 Blood Moon
1 Humility
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Runed Halo
1 Sylvan Library
1 Replenish
1 Aura of Silence

The sideboard is supposed to have 4 Leyline of Sanctity in place of the randoms (Halo, Aura, Teeg, and Library) but I was unable to get the set I needed today so I made do without. It was never relevant in any matchup.

I just saw this. Decent run, and way to bring Enchantress to a big event!

For what it is worth we all make out choices and put out the list we feel are the best and see how it goes. However, I wanted to say that the list found below does have some decent game against the unfair match-ups you listed.

vs. Painter:

-Stony
-Swords
-Banishing light
-Suppression Field

Get you there pretty favorably. I do not board in Leyline usually. 75/25


vs. Reanimator

-3 RIP
-3 Swords
-Banishing light
-Suppression Field

Gives you a real chance, but if they have the nutz they got it. 40/60

vs. Show

-Suppression Field
-Helm
-Banishing light
-Oring
-Harmonic
-Emrakul

They are severely slowed by sup. field, and in desperation may show and tell into a ring/light/ emrakul/ or helm

50 /50







4 Argothian Enchantress
4 Enchantress's Presence
4 Green Sun's

4 Wild Growth
4 utopia Sprawl

3 Mirri's Guile
3 Rest In Peace

1 Helm of Obedience
1 Emrakul

2 Kruphix's Insight

1 Banishing Light
2 Suppression Field

3 Solitary Confinement
3 Elephant Grass

4 Serra's Sanctum
1 Plains
4 Windswept Heath
1 Karakas
11 Forest

Sideboard:
1 Gaddock Teeg
3 Swords to Plowshares
2 Banishing Light
4 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Stony Silence
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Harmonic Sliver

I don't think the Insight's are worth it the more I play with them. the deck would likely be better cutting them and shifting more hate main, and getting a good bullet answer to BG decks with Golgari Charm in the board as that is likely the worst mu these days.

[GoldenCid]

What about eidolon of blossom here??? Has it been discussed here?

Enviado desde mi XT890 mediante Tapatalk

[andrebonotto]

(...)
I don't think the Insight's are worth it the more I play with them. the deck would likely be better cutting them and shifting more hate main, and getting a good bullet answer to BG decks with Golgari Charm in the board as that is likely the worst mu these days.

Hi,

Just throwing some ideas concerning countering Golgari Charm effects:


- Would Lumithread Field be worth it?

- Or Parapet, that could save your creatures as an Instant?

- Spidersilk Armor is on a better color, but costs 1 more.

- There is also Leyline of Vitality, but as a 1-of it would not be reliable cast as free, and it's normal cost is too high...

[Freggle]

Hi,

Just throwing some ideas concerning countering Golgari Charm effects:


- Would Lumithread Field be worth it?

- Or Parapet, that could save your creatures as an Instant?

- Spidersilk Armor is on a better color, but costs 1 more.

- There is also Leyline of Vitality, but as a 1-of it would not be reliable cast as free, and it's normal cost is too high...

I've been thinking about this over the last couple days. at first I thought it might be a solution, but in all reality it's just not good enough. In the end we are probably better off just out numbering their hate.

Some ways to do this is to:

- Re-adopt the Sterling Grove Strat. in RIP / Helm Enchantress

-Seriously Explore Eidolon of Blossoms
* Can not be Decayed

-Look at a Replenish Strat. out of the board.

Of these I think I will test (1) Eidolon of Blossoms in the Kruphix's Insight slot, and possibly a single replenish in the board cutting Harmonic Sliver.

This will help overload discard and target removal, but still play into Lillianna, and Toxic Deluge. In the end the MU is still pretty bad, but at least a post board strat of -3 RIP / - 1 Helm / +3-4 Leyline of Sanctity / + 1 Replenish gives us a real shot. ...and a very good shot if we start with a decent Leyline hand post board.

4 Argothian Enchantress
4 Enchantress's Presence
4 Green Sun's

4 Wild Growth
4 utopia Sprawl

3 Mirri's Guile
3 Rest In Peace

1 Helm of Obedience
1 Emrakul

1 Eidolon of Blossoms
1 Banishing Light

3 Suppression Field

3 Solitary Confinement
3 Elephant Grass

4 Serra's Sanctum
1 Plains
4 Windswept Heath
1 Karakas
11 Forest

Sideboard:
1 Gaddock Teeg
3 Swords to Plowshares
2 Banishing Light
4 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Stony Silence
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Replenish

[Watersaw]

I don't think the Insight's are worth it the more I play with them. the deck would likely be better cutting them and shifting more hate main, and getting a good bullet answer to BG decks with Golgari Charm in the board as that is likely the worst mu these days.

Yeah, I really, REALLY wanted to believe, but the card just doesn't do what you want most of the time. It's good when you want to draw enchantments.

So it's good when you already have an enchantress.

So it's pretty winmore even when it's good.


What about eidolon of blossom here??? Has it been discussed here?


For a little, but it was generally thought to be too much damn mana. And sucks against counterspells. But who knows, maybe flower girl deserves another chance.

I started running Dryad Arbor as the 21st land (again) and it's been working pretty well. I havn't been drawing it that much and being able to get an emergency blocker/mana source has been huge. Actually getting hit by Wasteland sucks. Speaking of GSZ, is there any reason to not run Reclamation Sage over Harmonic Sliver once M15 is in?

[Bertrand Hustle]

I took out Insights and haven't looked back. It's nice when you're in a 1-2 Enchantress Confinement lock though and need to grab fuel.

Shoutouts to all the Enchantress players at GP PDX this weekend grinding side events, there were 3 of us there. 1 traditional, 1 unlife and one more combo heavy build. Unfortunately I couldn't go out and have an Enchanted Evening getting drunk because my family wanted me to work on their roof in the morning but it was awesome meeting you all and sharing builds/swapping strats.

Discussed a few things, one of the things that everyone agreed with to some degree is that 4 Serra's Sanctum can be/is a bit much. I can confirm 2/3 of us were running 3. I messed around with Skybind for fun on the side for laughs and it did a little work in casual matches but it's no Words of Wind because of the steep CMC and 2W req. It's an interesting idea though. It's such a shame that this block was so deeply underwhelming for this deck: Every other deck in the format has been gaining tools that outpace what Enchantress is gaining, especially in the previous block.

It's also noteworthy that most of my wins came from Progenitus and Banefire. I only got to Helm someone once this weekend, and the other time was in desperation for a chump blocker :( I think I had one or two wins off Emrakul, the Aeons Torn as well. I really can't see myself going back to running any nonbasics other than 4 Windswept Heath and 3 Serra's Sanctum at this point. Sprawl and CoF did SO much work, these cards really help, especially when I decided to board in Banefire. I want to run Choke in addition to CoFs but I'm not sure what I'm gonna cut. As another side note, I do think that Swords to Plowshares in the board is correct, my biggest losses were to Aggro Loam, Maverick and Lands decks where I simply didn't have the Instant speed interaction to take out Marit Lage. Dark Maverick is just ridiculously hard after RtR hit the shelves. I'm starting to think that the Sterling Grove gameplan is where this deck is headed because of Golgari Charm and Abrupt Decay running rampant.

[Watersaw]

Been meaning to post for the last week. I went with a few friends to the SCG open in Somerset and had a blast. Didn't place, but I still felt pretty good about my performance.

4 Argothian Enchantress
1 Eidolon of Blossoms
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

4 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Replenish

3 Elephant Grass
3 Mirri's Guile
4 Wild Growth
4 Utopia Sprawl
3 Rest in Peace
3 Suppression Field
2 Solitary Confinement
4 Enchantress's Presence
1 Sigil of the Empty Throne

1 Helm of Obedience

1 Dryad Arbor
1 Karakas
2 Plains
4 Windswept Heath
4 Serra's Sanctum
9 Forest

Sideboard:
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Reclamation Sage

3 Swords to Plowshares
1 Replenish

2 Banishing Light
1 Oblivion Ring
2 Humility
4 Leyline of Sanctity

I made a few changes since the last time, namely putting Solitary Confinement back in and taking out Kruphix's Insight. Went 6-4 overall, losing to Storm, High Tide (sup Feline), and 2 BUG Delver decks.
Overall impressions:
An early Suppression Field buys you so much time. Even late game it can tip the scales a bit.
I never actually wanted Reclamation Sage. It's a neat card but there was never a moment where I wanted it and wasn't already dead.
Eidolon of Blossoms is so worth it. Cantripping off Zenith was surprisingly relevant all day.
Humility is downright hilarious and super powerful. I only got to resolve it once and I still lost, but it bought me about 5 turns.
I like the 1-of Dryad Arbor a lot, even though it was only relevant in 2 or 3 games.
Helm of Obedience was the worst of the wincons that day, but Rest in Peace is so stupidly powerful that I feel like I have to run it. Probably cutting it anyway.
Death and Taxes is terrifying and I won off the die roll. We had lethal on the same turn every game.
I've been having a lot more trouble with BGx decks since cutting Kruphix's Insight, mainly because I rush enchantresses into removal without drawing enough cards. Whether that's an argument for running Insight or me just needing to git gud is up for debate.
The mainboard Replenish was mostly pointless. Half the time I stared at it wishing it was anything else.

[GoldenCid]

Waaa 4 GSZ? Is it so good?

Enviado desde mi XT890 mediante Tapatalk

[Bertrand Hustle]

Waaa 4 GSZ? Is it so good?

Enviado desde mi XT890 mediante Tapatalk

4 GSZ vastly increases the number of keepable hands . 12 vs 8 Enchantresses? I'll take it anyday. Water has other 1 of targets as well. No reason for there not to be 4. If you don't think 4 is correct then what would you suggest otherwise and why?

[Just me]

+ GSZ is only good if it allows a T2 Echantress (either with T1 mana accel into GSZ x = 2 or GSZ into Dryad Arbor into Enchantress Presence).

- Later it's pretty much dead i.m.o., sometimes even a liability.

- The deck needs more speed to compete. T3 GSZ into Enchantress is waaayyyy to slow.

Another option is running Chrome Mox, to speed up the deck, allowing an Enchantress ahead of the curve. Imagine starting t2 with 2 mana and an Agrothian Enchantress in play!

[Freggle]

Been meaning to post for the last week. I went with a few friends to the SCG open in Somerset and had a blast. Didn't place, but I still felt pretty good about my performance.

4 Argothian Enchantress
1 Eidolon of Blossoms
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

4 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Replenish

3 Elephant Grass
3 Mirri's Guile
4 Wild Growth
4 Utopia Sprawl
3 Rest in Peace
3 Suppression Field
2 Solitary Confinement
4 Enchantress's Presence
1 Sigil of the Empty Throne

1 Helm of Obedience

1 Dryad Arbor
1 Karakas
2 Plains
4 Windswept Heath
4 Serra's Sanctum
9 Forest

Sideboard:
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Reclamation Sage

3 Swords to Plowshares
1 Replenish

2 Banishing Light
1 Oblivion Ring
2 Humility
4 Leyline of Sanctity

I made a few changes since the last time, namely putting Solitary Confinement back in and taking out Kruphix's Insight. Went 6-4 overall, losing to Storm, High Tide (sup Feline), and 2 BUG Delver decks.
Overall impressions:
An early Suppression Field buys you so much time. Even late game it can tip the scales a bit.
I never actually wanted Reclamation Sage. It's a neat card but there was never a moment where I wanted it and wasn't already dead.
Eidolon of Blossoms is so worth it. Cantripping off Zenith was surprisingly relevant all day.
Humility is downright hilarious and super powerful. I only got to resolve it once and I still lost, but it bought me about 5 turns.
I like the 1-of Dryad Arbor a lot, even though it was only relevant in 2 or 3 games.
Helm of Obedience was the worst of the wincons that day, but Rest in Peace is so stupidly powerful that I feel like I have to run it. Probably cutting it anyway.
Death and Taxes is terrifying and I won off the die roll. We had lethal on the same turn every game.
I've been having a lot more trouble with BGx decks since cutting Kruphix's Insight, mainly because I rush enchantresses into removal without drawing enough cards. Whether that's an argument for running Insight or me just needing to git gud is up for debate.
The mainboard Replenish was mostly pointless. Half the time I stared at it wishing it was anything else.


I like the list taking into consideration your adjustments. When I play (which has been few and far between as of late) I play the list a few posts up which is very similar. Looks like the parings were not favorable, but they are not auto-losses as well. As stated above the BUG decks are the worst MU's for the current build what do you feel would best help it. Maybe a second Eidolon of Blossoms? It's out of Decay range and can not be swept in -1/-1 mode of charm... Allowing your GSZ's to get busy on Endilons or Argothian whichever seems to be more game appropriate at the time.

You said Helm was the worst win. Which was best, Emrakul or Sigil?

To answer the GSZ question. It is the best back-up to Pressence and Argothian out there and legitimizes the Hatebare post board combo plan. The shuffles (with Guile) and the ability to shuffle them in to draw are also very relevant when your not running Words of War or Wind to not draw out.

[Watersaw]

I like the list taking into consideration your adjustments. When I play (which has been few and far between as of late) I play the list a few posts up which is very similar. Looks like the parings were not favorable, but they are not auto-losses as well. As stated above the BUG decks are the worst MU's for the current build what do you feel would best help it. Maybe a second Eidolon of Blossoms? It's out of Decay range and can not be swept in -1/-1 mode of charm... Allowing your GSZ's to get busy on Endilons or Argothian whichever seems to be more game appropriate at the time.

You said Helm was the worst win. Which was best, Emrakul or Sigil?

To answer the GSZ question. It is the best back-up to Pressence and Argothian out there and legitimizes the Hatebare post board combo plan. The shuffles (with Guile) and the ability to shuffle them in to draw are also very relevant when your not running Words of War or Wind to not draw out.

Well I wrote a whole bunch but it got lost to poor connection. The moral of the story was, after checking my notes I realized that I'm a liar.
Sigil of the Empty Throne: 2 wins (3 if you count a game where I went double-digit angels > Emrakul), 2 games where 4/4 blockers were relevant
Emrakul, the Aeons Torn: cast 5 games, won 5 games
Helm of Obediance: 5 exiled libraries, 1 awkward game where Gaddock Teeg wouldn't let me win.

Eidolon number 2 might be a good addition. I actually hadn't even considered that until right now. I was chatting with one guy who was running it the day before with Ground Seal over RIP and Helm of Obedience, and one of the guys I went with saw someone in the 2-0 bracket running Near-Death Experience of all things. Sadly I didn't get to talk to him and find out what the hell was going on. Honestly I may just be prejudice against Helm of Obediance because all it does is win you random games (that's one hell of a sentence). Also cuz I really want Kruphix's Insight to work but the card just can't exist in a deck with RIP and Green Sun's Zenith. It's a fool's errand but I want to believe.

[Watersaw]

For those interested:
0-2 vs. T.E.S.
0-2 vs. High Tide
2-0 vs. Miracles
2-1 vs. Death & Taxes
2-1 vs. Grixis Delver
2-1 vs. Elves
2-1 vs. America Blade
0-2 vs. BUG Delver
2-0 vs. mono-Red Stompy
0-2 vs. BUG Delver

6-4 overall, with 12 wins and 12 losses

(EDIT: sorry for editing this a million times. I just kept noticing things that bothered me every time I posted it. Yes, even after previewing it.)

[The_Dingo]

For those interested:
0-2 vs. T.E.S.
0-2 vs. High Tide
2-0 vs. Miracles
2-1 vs. Death & Taxes
2-1 vs. Grixis Delver
2-1 vs. Elves
2-1 vs. America Blade
0-2 vs. BUG Delver
2-0 vs. mono-Red Stompy
0-2 vs. BUG Delver

6-4 overall, with 12 wins and 12 losses

(EDIT: sorry for editing this a million times. I just kept noticing things that bothered me every time I posted it. Yes, even after previewing it.)

Bummer about the R1 pairing. That one feels just about impossible. What happened in the high tide matchup? I've never had to play it out, but I feel like it wouldn't be pleasant for us. Not that high tide is pleasant for anyone really.

[btm10]

Bummer about the R1 pairing. That one feels just about impossible. What happened in the high tide matchup? I've never had to play it out, but I feel like it wouldn't be pleasant for us. Not that high tide is pleasant for anyone really.

Definite bummer on the R1 pairing. I've only played against High Tide once, and I won. I'd guess that the matchup is slightly unfavorable overall, but we're maybe a turn slower (4-5 vs. 3-4). Granted, that's based on a small sample size, but the matchup is winnable. I'm still running Groves, was testing Argivian Find, and was playing GWb with maindeck Thougthseizes at the time, all of which were relevant in the matchup. If you get double Grove with either Leyline of Sanctity or Confinement out they simply cannot win and will either scoop to you or you'll have to set up quickly and finish them off.

I've been playing more Enchantress recently than I have since January, and I think 1 Courser, 1 Eidolon is right. I'm currently at 6 Fetches with 2 Guile/1 Sylvan as my non-Enchantress manipulation package, and the selectivity that enables has been worth it. I'm convinced that we're as well positioned as we've been since at least 2011 right now - BUG matchups are unfavorable, but combo is at an all time low, and people keep playing decks that we're very good against (Miracles, UWR Delver, Stoneblade, Deathblade, Painter) to finishes at high profile events. If the trend continues, I may play Enchantress at GPNJ.

[The_Dingo]

I'm convinced that we're as well positioned as we've been since at least 2011 right now - BUG matchups are unfavorable, but combo is at an all time low, and people keep playing decks that we're very good against (Miracles, UWR Delver, Stoneblade, Deathblade, Painter) to finishes at high profile events. If the trend continues, I may play Enchantress at GPNJ.

I will agree with this, and I think many others have come to the same conclusion. I've played the mirror match several times now at recent events this year.

Soo, hopefully we don't sit across from one another R1 of the GP w/ enchantress, cause in my experience it's just about the silliest thing ever, depending on the builds.

[bwood]

Hi everyone! I'm glad to see there is an active place where people are working on this deck. I have been building it and testing for a while would love to get some feedback on my current iteration.

Main:

Creatures
4 Argothian Enchantress
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

Other
1 Enlightened Tutor
3 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Kruphix's Insight
1 Helm of Obedience

Enchantments
2 Mirri's Guile
4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Wild Growth
2 Energy Field
3 Rest in Peace
4 Sterling Grove
2 Suppression Field
4 Enchantress's Presence
2 Oblivion Ring
1 Sigil of the Empty Throne

Land
5 Forest
2 Plains
3 Savannah
3 Serra's Sanctum
2 Tropical Island
1 Tundra
4 Windswept Heath


Sideboard:

2 Carpet of Flowers
2 Elephant Grass
2 Gaddock Teeg
1 Seal of Primordium
2 Stony Silence
2 Blood Moon
2 Choke
2 Rule of Law
4 Leyline of Sanctity


It seems like most people on here prefer Solitary Confinement to Energy Field, it seems to me if we are playing with RIP that Energy Field is just better. I have had many people just scoop once I get both of those in play. There also have been a couple times where I can't get that one blue mana when I need it. Removing it would allow for more basics and be less susceptible to Wasteland. I'm curious what others think about it.

My sideboard is at 19 because I am having a hard time deciding the best 15.

Has anyone thought about siding in Aegis of the Gods since our opponents are probably siding out creature removal?

Anyway, just thought I would see if I might be able to get some feedback on what I am running and join in on the discussion.

[Watersaw]

Bummer about the R1 pairing. That one feels just about impossible. What happened in the high tide matchup? I've never had to play it out, but I feel like it wouldn't be pleasant for us. Not that high tide is pleasant for anyone really.

Yeah, it was bad. He starts off T1 Gemstone Mine > Ponder and I'm just sitting there looking at my hand thinking "Oh, I get it. I'm in hell. I've died and have gone to hell."

Round 2 was... I dunno. I hadn't played against High Tide in months (from what I remember it was rough) and was paired against Feline, so I figured from the get-go my odds were slim. Game one I don't really do much and bank on Rest in Peace scaring her off Time Spiral long enough to find something more solid. She says screw it, untaps into High Tide, High Tide, Time Spiral and proceeds to win anyway. Game 2 I get T0 Leyline of Sanctity and T3 Gaddock Teeg. I actually started going into the red zone with grandpa and Dryad Arbor and got her to 13 before sticking Solitary Confinement. Unfortunately she hits High Tide into Wipe Away into Turnabout into like 3 Candelabra of Tawnos and manages to loop into infinite mana via Capsize. Also all my stuff got Capsized.

It was actually a really fun match. I enjoy watching people do crazy 20+ card combos. I dunno, I guess I'm masochistic like that. We were chatting and joking a bit at the start and when I went T1 Forest > Utopia Sprawl she goes "Are you playing Enchantress?!" and the whole table turns to look at our game. It was just one of those moments that made me feel really good.


It seems like most people on here prefer Solitary Confinement to Energy Field, it seems to me if we are playing with RIP that Energy Field is just better. I have had many people just scoop once I get both of those in play. There also have been a couple times where I can't get that one blue mana when I need it. Removing it would allow for more basics and be less susceptible to Wasteland. I'm curious what others think about it.

My sideboard is at 19 because I am having a hard time deciding the best 15.

Has anyone thought about siding in Aegis of the Gods since our opponents are probably siding out creature removal?

Anyway, just thought I would see if I might be able to get some feedback on what I am running and join in on the discussion.

Energy Field does seem super strong, but a little harder to cast. I guess it doesn't actually matter when you factor in fetchlands and Utopia Sprawl though. My only concern is getting blown out even worse by late game discard or a random Abrupt Decay pre-Rest in Peace. All in all I like it and might try it out once I can afford a Trop.

Sideboarding is a struggle. I feel like you don't need both Carpet of Flowers and Choke. I would love to jam Blood Moon in mine if I ever find space. Rule of Law might be too slow, it hits you almost as hard as them, and you die if it ever leaves play. Then again you are on the Sterling Grove plan so it could work.

My issue with Aegis of the Gods is it adds exactly one step to their combo unless you already have Sterling Grove, and it does nothing to stop them from just drawing into their removal and killing you anyway. Who knows, I may just be selling it short.

How has Kruphix's Insight been performing with Rest in Peace? It seems kinda awkward in your build since you can't jam it in without losing Energy Field or accidentally exiling a win condition.

[bwood]

Energy Field does seem super strong, but a little harder to cast. I guess it doesn't actually matter when you factor in fetchlands and Utopia Sprawl though. My only concern is getting blown out even worse by late game discard or a random Abrupt Decay pre-Rest in Peace. All in all I like it and might try it out once I can afford a Trop.

It can get a little hairy if I don't already have Rest in Peace out since it can get blown away so many different ways, but when you get them both out it is marvelous. Even if you you don't have RIP it can save you for at least a turn, but if you are that desperate you are probably losing anyway.


Sideboarding is a struggle. I feel like you don't need both Carpet of Flowers and Choke. I would love to jam Blood Moon in mine if I ever find space. Rule of Law might be too slow, it hits you almost as hard as them, and you die if it ever leaves play. Then again you are on the Sterling Grove plan so it could work.
You are probably right about using both Carpet of Flowers and Choke. Choke is probably better. Blood moon can just flat out win games, but it doesn't happen too often. Rule of Law is soley there for combo. It definitely hurts us too, but if it can stop a combo for a couple turns it is worth it. Problem is it cmc 3, so they may combo before you can get it out.


My issue with Aegis of the Gods is it adds exactly one step to their combo unless you already have Sterling Grove, and it does nothing to stop them from just drawing into their removal and killing you anyway. Who knows, I may just be selling it short.
Aegis of the Gods might actually be better than Rule of Law now that I think about it. It goes in against the same decks and costs one less. I haven't actually tried it out yet so I will see how it goes. Bonus, you can get it with GSZ.


How has Kruphix's Insight been performing with Rest in Peace? It seems kinda awkward in your build since you can't jam it in without losing Energy Field or accidentally exiling a win condition.
I have found Kruphix's Insight to be pretty amazing. If you already have card draw out then it isn't necessary, but if you are running slow or you get hard disrupted early it allows you to get back in the game. It is true that it could mill win cons, but it is unlikely that all of them get tossed. Sigil of the Empty Throne won't at least. I am starting to play around with Banefire and a Plateau so that makes 4 different win cons so I'm not too worried about milling. Drawing 3 80% of the time is pretty great.

Thanks for the comments. I will be sure to share my experiences with this great deck.

[Bertrand Hustle]

It can get a little hairy if I don't already have Rest in Peace out since it can get blown away so many different ways, but when you get them both out it is marvelous. Even if you you don't have RIP it can save you for at least a turn, but if you are that desperate you are probably losing anyway.


You are probably right about using both Carpet of Flowers and Choke. Choke is probably better. Blood moon can just flat out win games, but it doesn't happen too often. Rule of Law is soley there for combo. It definitely hurts us too, but if it can stop a combo for a couple turns it is worth it. Problem is it cmc 3, so they may combo before you can get it out.


Aegis of the Gods might actually be better than Rule of Law now that I think about it. It goes in against the same decks and costs one less. I haven't actually tried it out yet so I will see how it goes. Bonus, you can get it with GSZ.


I have found Kruphix's Insight to be pretty amazing. If you already have card draw out then it isn't necessary, but if you are running slow or you get hard disrupted early it allows you to get back in the game. It is true that it could mill win cons, but it is unlikely that all of them get tossed. Sigil of the Empty Throne won't at least. I am starting to play around with Banefire and a Plateau so that makes 4 different win cons so I'm not too worried about milling. Drawing 3 80% of the time is pretty great.

Thanks for the comments. I will be sure to share my experiences with this great deck.

I think Carpet of Flowers is just awesome post board tbh. Especially if you're going to run something like Banefire then it's a strictly better Wild Growth vs Blue decks if you're gonna race them. I'd really like to hear other's experiences with the card if they've tried it.

Also: Good to see this thread getting some more love again, it was dead for quite a bit.

[btm10]

I think the deadness was because not too many people are playing Enchantress as their primary deck right now. It's hard enough to get solid testing time with my primary decks that I just haven't had time to contribute to Enchantress discussions for a while. If the deck performs better, we'll see more people in here talking about it.

More to the point, though: I feel like our BUG matchups can be pretty easily shored up with Blood Moon, so I'm going to go back to GWr for future testing. I'm not sure what other cards I want in red, though Words of War and Banefire are worth looking into.

[Freggle]

Yesterday I started to write an outline for a post in here I now realize I would never finish, or at least not finish in a timely manner. However the crux of it comes down to this Enchantress is sometimes a control deck, and other times a combo deck. The times in which you board or alter your play style to accentuate each of those properties is dependent on your opponent.

I started to work up (and may continue to do so) numbers that shows the percentages that decks are control, aggro or combo, to hammer home that point, and detail each of the debated cards roles in specific MU but it’s not needed to respond.

In short Watersaw your pairings are unfortunate, but they are not unwinnable. In those matches those combo decks are more combo then you are so you have to take on the control plan. A card that really hampers both of those decks that you do not have in your board is Stony Silence . That is an important piece “leveling the playing field.” Without LEDs / petals or Candelabras / tops those decks have a hard time functioning. The can most certainly still win, but you have a much greater chance of getting them is you have Stony in play.

When it comes to BUG, BUG decks are more control than we are control, and will more often than not win the control front so it is likely in our best interest to fight harder on our combo axis. With Deluge, Charm, Decay, Lilli… they can keep our board relatively clear of enchantress’s so why not just look at a way to helm them better? Should the board have another helm …the 4th RIP? …Enlightened Tutor? Yes they can still decay / charm / pulse RIP, but they only have so many of those cards, and if they are not hitting Presence or going into -1/-1 mode we likely have a good chance of out threating / out controlling them and coming over the top with Emrakul.
Another way to look at it is like what BTM10 is doing and that is to silver bullet them like Blood Moon , but then we stretch our mana, and weaken it to the field, and likely still looks to DRS mana ability unless we have more moons than they have answers, and frankly that seems difficult.

So in short when facing combo we want to be control Leyline, Stony, Teeg, Sup. Field, Confinement, RIP… when we are up against control we want to be the aggressor, Enlightened, Helm, More Enchantress’s…

To address the deck and it’s popularity, and the turning of this thread. Enchantress is an oddball deck by which I mean the cards that it plays does not overlap a lot of other decks. It also plays a fringe strategy, prison. Just by those two things alone you have created a lot of barrier of entry into the archetype. That doesn't even scratch the complexity of playing it (although it is not all that hard.) It is not that Enchantress is not good; it is that Enchantress is not popular. The less people playing the less interest, the less placing, the less thread development. When I was playing online regularly Enchantress blew up because it was cheap and fun, and placed. It may still be that way. There are a few of us that are passionate about the archetype and we write about it. There are many others that just don’t want to do internet forums that play. The thread goes “dead” from time to time when the passionate people take breaks from MTG or the archetype.

Super short about Energy Field. I personally love the card, but it is a very poor meta for it and it is not worth the added variance.

Edit: When I added Harmonic Sliver which would now be Reclamation Sage it was primarily for the D&T MU so that we could be sure we could eliminate a Spirit of the Labyrinth or a Ethersworn Cannonist with a potentially otherwise dead GSZ. There is also a good "trick" that you can GZS for some very large amount when facing Counter Top to hit Counterbalance.

[The_Dingo]

Went 5-2 at a ~80 man event on Saturday, which got me 15th place overall. If I had known that I would be facing show and tell 3 times in a row, I would probably have brought a different deck, or at least had a somewhat different maindeck configuration.

Here's what I played

Lands (19)
7 Forest
1 Plains
1 Savannah
1 Karakas
1 Dryad arbor
4 Windswept Heath
4 Serra's Sanctum

Critters (6)
4 Argothian Enchantress
1 Emrakul, the aeons Torn
1 Eidolon of Blossoms

Sorcery (3)
3 Green Sun's Zenith

Enchantments (31)
4 Enchantress's Presence
4 Elephant grass
3 Suppression Field
2 Rest in Peace
2 Solitary Confinement
4 Wild Growth
4 Utopia Sprawl
2 Mirri's Guile
2 Oblivion Ring
1 Sigil of the Empty Throne
2 Sterling Grove
1 Exploration

Artifacts (1)
Helm of Obedience

SB (15)
2 Replenish
1 Rest in Peace
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Humility
2 Carpet of FLowers
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Pithing Needle
1 Grafdiggers Cage
4 Leyline of Sanctity

Rounds 1 vs ANT I know my opponent and what he plays. Game one he's got the old T1 cantrip T2 I win hand. Game 2 I have double leyline of sanctity, which helps me play a T2 helm off of sanctum, then I top deck a RIP on T3 to finish him off. Game 3 was actually decently close, but he had the chain of vapor for my leyline and an abrupt decay for my gaddock teeg, then he kills me. It probably only felt close to me. 0-1


Round 2 U/R Delver This is another guy I know from my LGS. He wins G1 when I mull to 5. I get closish to stabilizing, w/ sigil on the board, but I only have time/mana to make 1 angel before he finishes me off. Games 2 and 3 I won enchantress style with ~4 life left and a wall of protective enchantments. 1-1


R3 vs sneak and show This was the first of 3 rounds in a row vs SnT. G1 He cantripped for a bit while I durdled with enchantress and wild growths. Pretty much the norm. He show and tells and puts in emrakul, I put in helm of obedience, then I top deck a rest in peace, which was super lucky since I was totally dead on board, and my plan was to try and mill him to hit an emrakul. Game 2 he does the old sneak attack griselbrand which finds emrakul and lotus petal and kill me trick. G3 he mulls to 4. I kept an iffy 7 w/ emrakul, Teeg, karakas, then I beat him down w/ teeg until he casts Show and tell. He was pretty amused when I put an emrakul of my own into play. 2-1


R4 Show and tell #2 I win game 1 after he shows in a sneak attack, and I put in a suppression field or some bs like that, which left him unable to activate sneak attack and go to combat through my elephant grass. On my turn I cast sigil of the empty throne and make a stack of angels and he scoops. game 2 was long and drawn out, where he had counters for my enchantress effects, but I had pithing needle for his sneak attack. He casts a show and tell and puts in griselbrand and I put in helm. He draws 14 cards, and I mill him one EoT hoping to hit a critter. I definitely feel like I'm losing. I untap and pass, since my hand is poor, and my game plan is to helm him into a creature. Next turn he attacks for 7, draws some more cards, and casts another show and tell for emrakul, and I get to put in an eidolon of blossoms and draw one whole card, which seems pretty lackluster. I draw a Karakas, which I use to bounce the Emrakul he just showed in, and my opponent scoops. 3-1


R5 Show and tell #3 I win game 1 when he G probes me and sees emrakul in hand, and has to change game plans to finding a sneak attack, meanwhile I set up sigil of the empty throne and make some angels which kill him in short order. Game 2 I mull to 5 and he quickly beats me down. G3 I keep a sketchy 6 card hand w/ 1 land and a gsz for dryad arbor. I never find another land and die shortly after. We spoke afterwards and after seeing the emrakul in my hand G1 he boarded out all of his show and tells, and never goes for that plan again. 3-2


R6 versus Bug delver. I'm on the play and I get really lucky. I pretty much always have exactly the right card to deal with his early aggression, which was like 2 delvers a DRS and a goyf. I win with 3 elephant grasses on the board and little enough life to count on 1 hand. Game 2 was a different story from G1. He either counters or makes me discard all good cards cards from an otherwise great starting hand, then he plays a drs and slowly starts taking me down. At some point he plays a delver, which he doesn't manage to flip, and at the last possible turn when I can still win I find an emrakul w/ exactly 15 mana sources. 4-2


R7 vs patriot delver G1 I lose on a mull to 5 to delvers and batterskull and TNN. Game 2 I have double carpet of flowers, and several enchantress effects. My opponent scooped when I established the solitary lock on him. G3 he mulls pretty low, but eventually gets some some pressure, but suppression field, and E grass slow him way down till I lay down a few enchantress effects, and I finish him off with an emrakul. 5-2

Despite pulling my hair out in frustration over some very poor (IMO) matchups, I was pleased by the decks performance all day and was very pleased to beat sneak and show not once but twice. I mulled a LOT over the course of the day, and I think that playing 19 lands was a large part of the reason. Dryad arbor is going to get the axe soon. Man I hate that card in this deck.

[U_mage]

Just got turned on to enchantress and have started testing. Freggle, are you still streaming/know of anyone who streams enchantress?

[Freggle]

Just got turned on to enchantress and have started testing. Freggle, are you still streaming/know of anyone who streams enchantress?

I haven't streamed in quite some time as I was taking a break from MTG to take on other hobbies. However, as of late I have been itching to play again so I may fire up the stream when I have some free time in the next week or so.

Edit: Nice run The_Dingo. Quite a few Emrakul kills I'm not surprised. How did the Sterling Groves fair for you over the day?

[The_Dingo]

The Sterling Groves were chronic under performers all day, and ever since I upped the suppression field count to 3, all they've done is shroud my enchantments. They are on the chopping block along with dryad arbor.

-2 sterling grove
-1 dryad arbor

+2 forest
+1 enlightened tutor?

Not sure yet what to play in the last slot, I'm definitely open to suggestions in regards to the 60th card.

Edit. The sterling groves were bad that day because of the nature of the matchups I played in, however I have been considering swapping them out for a while now.

[Freggle]

Edit. The sterling groves were bad that day because of the nature of the matchups I played in, however I have been considering swapping them out for a while now.

This is an honest question. When have you found the Sterling Groves to be good? Which MU's?

[The_Dingo]

This is an honest question. When have you found the Sterling Groves to be good? Which MU's?

I'm usually pretty happy to have them vs BUG decks and vs maverick decks packing multiple main deck QPMs. They are okay in most other situations, even if they don't especially shine. The only MU where I am displeased to have them is vs miracles where the tutor function becomes questionable due to clique.

[Hoojo]

Played in a small tournament (9 people) and won. I played against Burn, a DNT splash Black, and Patriot Delver (or UWR if you prefer.) Sneak and Show, Dredge, Elves, another DNTB, and some poor guy with Standard Junk rounded out the numbers. All were good games, with Elephant Grass and Solitary Confinement being my MVPs. I hate to post ANOTHER list but it might help with my matchup descriptions.


Creatures
4 Argothian Enchantress
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Eidolon of Blossoms

Other Spells
4 Enchantress's Presence
4 Elephant Grass
3 Solitary Confinement
4 Suppression Field
4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Wild Growth
3 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Rest in Peace
1 Helm of Obedience
2 Banishing Light
3 Mirri's Guile

Land
2 Serra's Sanctum
1 Plains
1 Karakas
4 Savannah
4 Windswept Heath
8 Forest

Sideboard
2 Stony Silence
1 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Solitary Confinement
1 Blind Obedience
2 Replenish
2 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
2 Sterling Grove
2 Choke
1 Humility
1 Reclamation Sage


This is my current list lacking 2 Sanctums and 3 Leylines to round it out. I won game one off a RIP topdeck at 5 life. I banked on Solitary Confinement coming through, and it did. I brought in the 4th, Leyline, Blind Obedience (for lifegain mostly) taking out Eidolon and 2 Suppression Fields, promptly losing to Eidolon of the Great Revel. Game three Solitary did its thing.

Against DNTB, I lost game one because I couldn't draw a Solitary. Game two I brought in Leyline, Solitary, and Replenish. Suppression Field ground him to a halt with Leyline protecting my hand from his sided discard and he scooped to inevitability. Game three I got a couple early Suppression Fields while he had a hand full of fetches. I established lock and Emrakul'd him.

Versus Patriot Delver, game one hinged on my resolving Solitary Confinement with 3 Argothians in play. Game two I brought in Sterling Grove, 2 Choke, Emrakul, and a Replenish, removing Helm, 2 Rest in Peace, Eidolon, and a GSZ. I'm not sure these were the right choices but I lost game two to an early Delver and no Solitary in sight. Game three was met with another early Delver but I had 2 Elephant Grass (one was countered) and a Suppression Field to hold him back. On the critical turn, I resolved a banishing light and drew Emrakul, annihilating his board.

I know it was a small tournament but many key decks were represented so I thought I would share. I didn't face Spirit of the Labyrinth out of the DNTs this time, nor did I match up with Sneak and Show, but I still felt I learned a few things:

I miss Sterling Grove in the main, even as a two-of, because of the tutor function. Mirri's Guile digs oh so slowly when you are ready to win.
I'm still not sure about the Helm win; the fact that RiP is the go to 'yard hate is the primary reason I keep using it. It wins now, has secondary fun vs Sneak and Show, and avoids combat. It just sucks when it gets countered.
Solitary Confinement steals games.
Elephant Grass is great in conjunction with Suppression Field for taxing early attackers, but I still think something more is needed. Banishing Light is too slow; I may go down to one main or figure a way to add more early mana (Elvish Spirit Guide come to mind.)
Eidolon is going to stay in for now, I drew several cards off it everytime. I might even test 2.
Some sort of lifegain would be nice. Nyx-Fleece Ram and [card]Courser of Kruphix[/cards] come to mind.
While Choke is potent, I can't seem to get it to do real damage. Probably go down to one.
Blind Obedience was there for Sneak Attack. I didn't have to use it but I did cast a few Extorted spells for life.
I did use Replenish to great effect. I think 1 or 2 in the side is always a good idea.
3 GSZs with 1 Eidolon feels right.
Considering Swords to Plowshares or Kirtar's Desire for early Delvers.

Sorry for the Brain Dump-esque formatting but my notes didn't elaborate.

[The_Dingo]

Eidolon is going to stay in for now, I drew several cards off it everytime. I might even test 2.
While Choke is potent, I can't seem to get it to do real damage. Probably go down to one.


Congrats on the good results. Our decklists are very similar, and I've been very pleased with it in most matchups.

I've had similarly good results w/ eidolon of blossoms, and similarly poor results w/ choke from the sideboard, to the point where I don't even bother w/ it anymore.

My question regarding sterling grove in the SB is when do you bring them in? I just recently removed them from the deck because of the way they interact w/ suppression field, and I'd like to continue playing w/ sterling grove as it has been a favorite card of mine for many years, but I can't rationalize it being in the SB over the bullets I already have.

[Hoojo]

My question regarding sterling grove in the SB is when do you bring them in? I just recently removed them from the deck because of the way they interact w/ suppression field, and I'd like to continue playing w/ sterling grove as it has been a favorite card of mine for many years, but I can't rationalize it being in the SB over the bullets I already have.

I brought it in when I suspected pinpoint enchantment hate; Patriot Delver often runs Wear//Tear. Even with a couple Suppression Fields, being able to search up an enchantment when you need it was something that I missed having. I'm not sure what to cut for it, but I really want it back. The other benefit is it protects Eidolon, which came up once.

Here is a list of cards I'm considering for the sideboard:

VS Hymn to Tourach, Thoughseize, Liliana of the Veil, etc:
Compost- Would have to be against HEAVY black decks.
Spiritual Focus- Directly addresses discard.

VS Burn, Aggro Delver decks, etc:
Nyx-Fleece Ram- Stops ground pounders, out of bolt range, triggers enchantresses, and gains life. Doesn't stop Delver though.
Phyrexian Unlife- Interesting that it gives you 10 extra "life" versus damage decks and makes you immune to Tendrils of Agony.
Sanctimony- Any heavy Mountain decks or Volcanic Islands.
Warmth- Bury the Burn decks.
Kirtar's Desire- Cheap pin point "removal" for early Delvers.
Courser of Kruphix- Decent life gain but slow.
Multani's Presence- Practically a must counter if you build your deck with a lot of redundancy.

[Scott]

I'd recommend consolidating the options and upping your SB Leyline of Sanctity count to 4 if you're trying to shore up your discard and burn match ups. My build is more RiP/Energy Field/hate card-oriented than engine-oriented, and thus probably cares more about Leyline on turn 0 to stop a first turn discard, but even though linear aggro without counters or enchantment destruction like Burn is a bye in my build anyway, it's been very worthwhile for me for its other uses, so your need for Burn hate should make up for that.

Super heavy discard mono black decks are uncommon (side note :frown:) and against things like BUG with Thoughtseize and Hymn, anti-discard tech might get hit by Decay anyway, and Leyline won't. There are also the problems of either the opponent discarding the anti-discard enchantment, or your hand getting wrecked before you can cast it or find it.

Leyline's also nice against things like ANT, TES, High Tide, and Grindstone, sometimes just for buying time against the ones with bounce, but often more than that if you have Sterling Groves.

And then you might have SB space for tasty stuff like Carpet of Flowers (nice against the Aggro Delver match up that you mentioned and lots of others), City of Solitude and Karmic Justice.

The differences in builds may be a factor though, so my experience isn't necessarily gospel.

[Cave]

Leyline's also nice against things like [...] High Tide

Correction from a (former, now in pause) high tide player: leyline is absolutely horrible against the deck.
Of course, it might be worth packing as a 4-of in the sideboard against discard and other storm combos (namely, black based), but trust me, it doesn't do anything against high tide.
Put that into play t0, even in multiple copies, and look at them happily smile to your unconscious mulligan.

During a High Tide combo process, there's only one spell that actually targets "you", and it is the very last one (namely, blue sun's zenith).
Leyline doesn't stop us either from setupping our combo like we normally would, or comboing off like we normally would, or drawing our own deck like we normally would. At the point where a High Tide player has his whole deck in hand and has access to infinite/nearly infinite mana, 3 cunning wishes, 3-4 bounce spells in his sideboard (Wipe Away, Snap, and most importantly here: Capsize and Echoing Truth) you can really have as much as 4 leylines and 1 grove into play, it wont really matter much.

My best advice on stopping high tide would be packing more discard if you're playing black, or Rule of Law. Yes, the latter also slows you down, but if you get that + grove online, you are really near to make them scoop, because you force them to have 2 bounce spells in the same hand that needs to start comboing (unlike Leyline, that, i repeat, allows high tide to setup normally).
If you get rule of law into play, you can slowly try to add things like Stony Silence and Rest in Peace. I guess if those three are together on the battlefield, it is impossible to go for the Blue Sun Zenith's plan (even if one of the 3 gets bounced), which is the only one viable since you are stopping Brain Freeze by running Emrakul already.
Edit: Spirit of the labyrinth, also.

[Freggle]

HooJo gratz on the win.


Correction from a (former, now in pause) high tide player: leyline is absolutely horrible against the deck.
Of course, it might be worth packing as a 4-of in the sideboard against discard and other storm combos (namely, black based), but trust me, it doesn't do anything against high tide.
Put that into play t0, even in multiple copies, and look at them happily smile to your unconscious mulligan.

During a High Tide combo process, there's only one spell that actually targets "you", and it is the very last one (namely, blue sun's zenith).
Leyline doesn't stop us either from setupping our combo like we normally would, or comboing off like we normally would, or drawing our own deck like we normally would. At the point where a High Tide player has his whole deck in hand and has access to infinite/nearly infinite mana, 3 cunning wishes, 3-4 bounce spells in his sideboard (Wipe Away, Snap, and most importantly here: Capsize and Echoing Truth) you can really have as much as 4 leylines and 1 grove into play, it wont really matter much.

My best advice on stopping high tide would be packing more discard if you're playing black, or Rule of Law. Yes, the latter also slows you down, but if you get that + grove online, you are really near to make them scoop, because you force them to have 2 bounce spells in the same hand that needs to start comboing (unlike Leyline, that, i repeat, allows high tide to setup normally).
If you get rule of law into play, you can slowly try to add things like Stony Silence and Rest in Peace. I guess if those three are together on the battlefield, it is impossible to go for the Blue Sun Zenith's plan (even if one of the 3 gets bounced), which is the only one viable since you are stopping Brain Freeze by running Emrakul already.
Edit: Spirit of the labyrinth, also.


Enchantress does of fine job of beating High Tide with the suite of the following cards: Stony Silence, Rest in Peace, Gaddock Teeg w/Green Sun's Zenith, Solitary Confinement, & yes Leyline of Sanctity ...but it's by far not the heaviest hitter.

Your not a lock to win, but at worst it's 50/50.

If you find room for Choke all the better, but it needs a suite of support as well. If it's just 1 copy expect it to be countered or bounced.

[Scott]

Correction from a (former, now in pause) high tide player: leyline is absolutely horrible against the deck.
Of course, it might be worth packing as a 4-of in the sideboard against discard and other storm combos (namely, black based), but trust me, it doesn't do anything against high tide.
Put that into play t0, even in multiple copies, and look at them happily smile to your unconscious mulligan.

During a High Tide combo process, there's only one spell that actually targets "you", and it is the very last one (namely, blue sun's zenith).
Leyline doesn't stop us either from setupping our combo like we normally would, or comboing off like we normally would, or drawing our own deck like we normally would. At the point where a High Tide player has his whole deck in hand and has access to infinite/nearly infinite mana, 3 cunning wishes, 3-4 bounce spells in his sideboard (Wipe Away, Snap, and most importantly here: Capsize and Echoing Truth) you can really have as much as 4 leylines and 1 grove into play, it wont really matter much.

My best advice on stopping high tide would be packing more discard if you're playing black, or Rule of Law. Yes, the latter also slows you down, but if you get that + grove online, you are really near to make them scoop, because you force them to have 2 bounce spells in the same hand that needs to start comboing (unlike Leyline, that, i repeat, allows high tide to setup normally).
If you get rule of law into play, you can slowly try to add things like Stony Silence and Rest in Peace. I guess if those three are together on the battlefield, it is impossible to go for the Blue Sun Zenith's plan (even if one of the 3 gets bounced), which is the only one viable since you are stopping Brain Freeze by running Emrakul already.
Edit: Spirit of the labyrinth, also.

Great insight there, and it's much appreciated, as the mechanics of High Tide might as well be witchcraft to me. Yeah, Leyline for High Tide is mostly supplemental and collateral damage. It did win me one of the few games I've played against it with Enchantress though. Getting a Leyline with double Grove is nothing to have as a Plan A and it wasn't that, but I got a Leyline with a Nevermore on Cunning Wish out, which brought the scoop.

I'm sure Leyline against High Tide is less effective in other builds, but I have 4 Groves, 3 Nevermores, 3 E. Tutors and 4 RiPs (somewhat unrelated) main deck. High Tide's a bit slower than some other combo decks so, at least in those few games, I could assemble the pieces. You make a good point, though, that it's not a game-winning haymaker.

[Cave]

Enchantress does of fine job of beating High Tide with the suite of the following cards: Stony Silence, Rest in Peace, Gaddock Teeg w/Green Sun's Zenith, Solitary Confinement, & yes Leyline of Sanctity ...but it's by far not the heaviest hitter.

Your not a lock to win, but at worst it's 50/50.

If you find room for Choke all the better, but it needs a suite of support as well. If it's just 1 copy expect it to be countered or bounced.


Great insight there, and it's much appreciated, as the mechanics of High Tide might as well be witchcraft to me. Yeah, Leyline for High Tide is mostly supplemental and collateral damage. It did win me one of the few games I've played against it with Enchantress though. Getting a Leyline with double Grove is nothing to have as a Plan A and it wasn't that, but I got a Leyline with a Nevermore on Cunning Wish out, which brought the scoop.

I'm sure Leyline against High Tide is less effective in other builds, but I have 4 Groves, 3 Nevermores, 3 E. Tutors and 4 RiPs (somewhat unrelated) main deck. High Tide's a bit slower than some other combo decks so, at least in those few games, I could assemble the pieces. You make a good point, though, that it's not a game-winning haymaker.

Thank you both for answering, I was just randomly reading through the forums and I come across this, so I wanted to point out because during my 2-years long experience piloting the deck, i've never lost a single match to white Leyline.

@Freggle: I know enchantress does fine against high tide, I was just pointing out that Leyline is actually a non-issue for the deck (if it's played correctly). Trust me, it may seem that it is an additional piece of lock (even though a light one), but it's not at all. You don't win the high tide matchup by denying him its winning condition, but by harassing its combo process or harassing the deck during its setup turns.

@Scott: To further prove my points (and to enlighten you a bit about the matchup) I will add some insight to the cards Freggle and you named as relevants in the matchup.

Emrakul: High Tide mostly wins by Blue Sun Zenith. However, some High Tide lists pack Ravenous Trap in the sideboard (I do, at least). Knowing that you often only run 1 Emrakul, it is not unthinkable that someone could still C.Wish -> Brain Freeze, mill Emrakul, and respond to Emrakul trigger by C.Wish -> Ravenous Trap if the Blue Sun Zenith route was impossible to execute.
Verdict: Almost irrelevant.

Leyline: As it has been stated before, Leyline + Double Sterling Grove wins it right off the bat. Otherwise it is a non-issue since it doesn't harass the combo process in any relevant way.
Leyline+Nevermore on "C.Wish" can win it too G1 (if you play leyline md), but if it's game 2-3, expect some bounce spells to be sided in since any High Tide player knows Enchantress is a really permanent-heavy deck: this means they can still find a bounce spell mid-combo w/o cunning wish. Leyline + Nevermore + Sterling is also really soft, because they can bounce Sterling eot, proceed comboing, and with Time Spiral the bounce spell would get reshuffled, ready to be used on Nevermore.
Verdict: Almost irrelevant.

Solitary Confinement: See Leyline of the Void.
Verdict: Almost irrelevant.

Rest in Peace: Since its pretty good Against ANT (stopping the Past in Flame route tout-court and severely damaging the impact of Cabal Ritual) you could be tricked into assuming it's good against High Tide too. In fact, being able to use every single spell only once is not that much of a bother. They can still get their islands to provide 5 mana per tap, which is enough to Blue Sun Zenith via Candelabras+Turnabout. Despite this, if you get RiP online, you will exile some of their cantrips, making their post-spiral hands statistically worse. If i were an enchantress player, I wouldn't try betting on this side to beat high tide though. As someone stated on the previous page, High Tide can easily win through this.
Verdict: I guess overall is okay-ish

Stony Silence: It denies candelabra of tawnos and SdT (the latter being really really really more important than the former, trust me). I guess that makes the card decent, but exactly as for leyline and emrakul, high tide can win easily through this by just comboing without using the cards you are denying them, as they are not that important. Also consider that candelabras are being sideout really often.
Verdict: Okay

Gaddock Teeg: Now THAT is scary. This old-aged kithkin denies three very important cards: Turnabout, Time Spiral and Blue Sun's Zenith.
He denies Blue Sun Zenith better than leyline does (also preventing the High Tide player to Blue Sun Zenithing his/herself) but that's not the main point. As far as Turnabout and Time Spiral are concerned though, it is really really unlikely that a High Tide can combo without casting Time Spiral at least once. This is an important difference when compared to the previous 5 cards: gaddock has to be bounced in order to start the combo.
Verdict: Relevant

Choke: It doesn't stop the combo itself (they let three islands untapped -> high tide-> turnabout->time spiral->win), but if you get this online during their setup, it can mean that you get 3+ time walks due to the incredible effect. Absolutely a pain and a must counter-bounce.
Verdict: Relevant

Rule of Law: Exactly as Choke, it slows the combo setup. However, it also makes the combo impossible unless bounced.
Verdict: Relevant

Spirit of the Labyrinth: Makes comboing, setupping, and simply digging for a bounce absolutely impossible. This card alone stops 70% of the deck and has to be answered.
Verdict: Relevant

Overall: If you want to win the match by using any of the cards that I judged less than "relevant", you'd better have a combination of 2-3 of them (+possibly Sterling Grove) into the battlefield and be aware that High Tide deck doesn't need to answer to them in any way and can win with them on the battlefield (or, speaking about leyline, they can get in a position where bouncing leyline is a piece of cake). If you desperately need to beat high tide, though, I would focus on getting one of the last four cards on the play as they either win your game spot-on, or slow the deck in such a painful way that you have time to find other lock.

That being said, High Tide matchup is kinda rare, so the issue of what are the best cards to face it is not so relevant.
From now i'll simply pass you the ball and return to high tide-goldfishing, since i stopped playing it in tournament due to massive headaches :D

[apple713]

totally speculating here but this deck seems like its about to hit its prime. delve strategies get hosed by RIP which i can only imagine is main in the lists.

[Bertrand Hustle]

totally speculating here but this deck seems like its about to hit its prime. delve strategies get hosed by RIP which i can only imagine is main in the lists.
Post and preboard Team America absolutely murders this deck. Abrupt, Golgari Charm... BUG strategies in general really hurt this deck. RIP helps vs Goyf and turns off DRS but it's not going to give you inevitability when they have 3/2 flyers coming in and they are destroying your Confinements. This is especially true since people have moved away from the traditional Grove plan.

[btm10]

Post and preboard Team America absolutely murders this deck. Abrupt, Golgari Charm... BUG strategies in general really hurt this deck. RIP helps vs Goyf and turns off DRS but it's not going to give you inevitability when they have 3/2 flyers coming in and they are destroying your Confinements. This is especially true since people have moved away from the traditional Grove plan.

This might be because I still run Grove, but there are several (we've had as many as 4) strong TA/BUG Delver players in my local meta, and I'm about even with them after playing the matchup for several months. I'm way more afraid of Golgari Charm than I am of Decay, but that's another issue. I think BUG Delver isn't much harder than RUG Delver unless they're on the currently-rare plan of running Thoughtseize over Hymn. We have lots of answers to their discard, we have auto-win cards like Blood Moon, and significant disruption in the form of MD Rest in Peace. If you want to beat BUG Delver, Grove, Moon, and Rest in Peace make it even to slightly unfavorable, and I don't think of any of those as matchup specific hate since they're good against so many decks. If you're that concerned about TA, then you can also run some number of Leyline of Sanctity main to fight Liliana and (other) discard. Shardless is a pretty favorable matchup because they're basically just a goldfish game 1 if they're on the Lejay build that doesn't have MD discard, and even if they're on a more standard build you'll draw out of any discard trouble before they kill you. When I lose to Shardless, it's almost always because they went Land, Deathrite into having Liliana and attacking with a 4/5 or 5/6 Goyf on turn 3, and sometimes that happens. But a lot of the time you have a better draw engine, can hide things you need from discard with Miri's Guile, and they can't effectively race you because their draw put (or at least started) them on the midrange/planeswalkers plan rather than the beatdown plan.

[Watersaw]

This might be because I still run Grove, but there are several (we've had as many as 4) strong TA/BUG Delver players in my local meta, and I'm about even with them after playing the matchup for several months. I'm way more afraid of Golgari Charm than I am of Decay, but that's another issue. I think BUG Delver isn't much harder than RUG Delver unless they're on the currently-rare plan of running Thoughtseize over Hymn. We have lots of answers to their discard, we have auto-win cards like Blood Moon, and significant disruption in the form of MD Rest in Peace. If you want to beat BUG Delver, Grove, Moon, and Rest in Peace make it even to slightly unfavorable, and I don't think of any of those as matchup specific hate since they're good against so many decks. If you're that concerned about TA, then you can also run some number of Leyline of Sanctity main to fight Liliana and (other) discard. Shardless is a pretty favorable matchup because they're basically just a goldfish game 1 if they're on the Lejay build that doesn't have MD discard, and even if they're on a more standard build you'll draw out of any discard trouble before they kill you. When I lose to Shardless, it's almost always because they went Land, Deathrite into having Liliana and attacking with a 4/5 or 5/6 Goyf on turn 3, and sometimes that happens. But a lot of the time you have a better draw engine, can hide things you need from discard with Miri's Guile, and they can't effectively race you because their draw put (or at least started) them on the midrange/planeswalkers plan rather than the beatdown plan.

I think the main issue with any GBx deck (sans Shardless) is we need to play at least one turn slower than we're used to. They have a million and 10 ways to remove our permanents if they ever gain priority so being able to trigger enchantresses is that much more important. Of course, they also have discard, but unless you keep an iffy hand or they open with some nonsense like t1 Thoughtseize t2 Hymn to Tourach you should be fine. They take a while to actually kill us so you don't have to slam Elephant Grass right away. Plus, maindeck Rest in Peace is a beating.

[Watersaw]

Stony Silence: It denies candelabra of tawnos and SdT (the latter being really really really more important than the former, trust me). I guess that makes the card decent, but exactly as for leyline and emrakul, high tide can win easily through this by just comboing without using the cards you are denying them, as they are not that important. Also consider that candelabras are being sideout really often.
Verdict: Okay

Spirit of the Labyrinth: Makes comboing, setupping, and simply digging for a bounce absolutely impossible. This card alone stops 70% of the deck and has to be answered.
Verdict: Relevant

Overall: If you want to win the match by using any of the cards that I judged less than "relevant", you'd better have a combination of 2-3 of them (+possibly Sterling Grove) into the battlefield and be aware that High Tide deck doesn't need to answer to them in any way and can win with them on the battlefield (or, speaking about leyline, they can get in a position where bouncing leyline is a piece of cake). If you desperately need to beat high tide, though, I would focus on getting one of the last four cards on the play as they either win your game spot-on, or slow the deck in such a painful way that you have time to find other lock.

That being said, High Tide matchup is kinda rare, so the issue of what are the best cards to face it is not so relevant.
From now i'll simply pass you the ball and return to high tide-goldfishing, since i stopped playing it in tournament due to massive headaches :D

To be fair, the Enchantress matchup isn't all that common either.

I actually have 2ish sideboard slots left and have been going back and forth between Stony Silence and Spirit of the Labyrinth. They're both pretty good against any combo deck, so it really comes down to if you're fine hosing yourself a bit in exchange for a more powerful threat (debatable) and a clock. And if you really REALLY want to make affinity/Tezzeret/Mud players cry. Then again we've had no problem running Humility in the past so who knows?

[The_Dingo]

To be fair, the Enchantress matchup isn't all that common either.

I actually have 2ish sideboard slots left and have been going back and forth between Stony Silence and Spirit of the Labyrinth. They're both pretty good against any combo deck, so it really comes down to if you're fine hosing yourself a bit in exchange for a more powerful threat (debatable) and a clock. And if you really REALLY want to make affinity/Tezzeret/Mud players cry. Then again we've had no problem running Humility in the past so who knows?

Stony silence is a card I've considered in the past, depending on what I expect the meta of an event to be like. But I don't think I could bring myself to play Spirit of the Labyrinth. I have sat down at the table across from spirit with enchantress, and it is almost enough to make me scoop. In fact, if I was playing enchantress, and I played a spirit of the Labyrinth of my own, I would scoop to myself.

[Bertrand Hustle]

This might be because I still run Grove, but there are several (we've had as many as 4) strong TA/BUG Delver players in my local meta, and I'm about even with them after playing the matchup for several months. I'm way more afraid of Golgari Charm than I am of Decay, but that's another issue. I think BUG Delver isn't much harder than RUG Delver unless they're on the currently-rare plan of running Thoughtseize over Hymn. We have lots of answers to their discard, we have auto-win cards like Blood Moon, and significant disruption in the form of MD Rest in Peace. If you want to beat BUG Delver, Grove, Moon, and Rest in Peace make it even to slightly unfavorable, and I don't think of any of those as matchup specific hate since they're good against so many decks. If you're that concerned about TA, then you can also run some number of Leyline of Sanctity main to fight Liliana and (other) discard. Shardless is a pretty favorable matchup because they're basically just a goldfish game 1 if they're on the Lejay build that doesn't have MD discard, and even if they're on a more standard build you'll draw out of any discard trouble before they kill you. When I lose to Shardless, it's almost always because they went Land, Deathrite into having Liliana and attacking with a 4/5 or 5/6 Goyf on turn 3, and sometimes that happens. But a lot of the time you have a better draw engine, can hide things you need from discard with Miri's Guile, and they can't effectively race you because their draw put (or at least started) them on the midrange/planeswalkers plan rather than the beatdown plan.Yeah, I'm not really that afraid of Shardless TBH, Team America is much worse. I kinda feel like the place I want to be in this matchup is having Groves, but I'm not sure how productive it is elsewhere. Can you tell my how you feel they perform in other matchups and how/if you feel they are dead? I'd definitely like to test them again. I do think Leyline's nice but you can't really treat it as a hand keep condition in this particular matchup since there are so many other moving parts in this deck. Again, there's a great disparity in the speed of Team America vs Shardless. Sphere would be kinda nice against BG decks in general I think, I haven't any experience with the card but I'm willing to try it.


Stony silence is a card I've considered in the past, depending on what I expect the meta of an event to be like. But I don't think I could bring myself to play Spirit of the Labyrinth. I have sat down at the table across from spirit with enchantress, and it is almost enough to make me scoop. In fact, if I was playing enchantress, and I played a spirit of the Labyrinth of my own, I would scoop to myself.
Stony is just the nuts as a board card.

[btm10]

Yeah, I'm not really that afraid of Shardless TBH, Team America is much worse. I kinda feel like the place I want to be in this matchup is having Groves, but I'm not sure how productive it is elsewhere. Can you tell my how you feel they perform in other matchups and how/if you feel they are dead? I'd definitely like to test them again. I do think Leyline's nice but you can't really treat it as a hand keep condition in this particular matchup since there are so many other moving parts in this deck. Again, there's a great disparity in the speed of Team America vs Shardless. Sphere would be kinda nice against BG decks in general I think, I haven't any experience with the card but I'm willing to try it.


Leyline certainly isn't a catch-all answer to discard, but it does have its uses. Spiritual Focus is, as always, an answer to discard as if that's an issue. Elephant Grass is actually a real beating against all Delver strategies because they're so land light. You probably know this, but it's mostly a matter of getting time to stabilize with Confinement lock + Grove. As for Grove, it's almost never dead. At worst it tutors for a win condition or lock piece, and at best double Grove + Confinement is a hard lock. Most of the time it cycles while protecting your enchantments.


I think the main issue with any GBx deck (sans Shardless) is we need to play at least one turn slower than we're used to. They have a million and 10 ways to remove our permanents if they ever gain priority so being able to trigger enchantresses is that much more important. Of course, they also have discard, but unless you keep an iffy hand or they open with some nonsense like t1 Thoughtseize t2 Hymn to Tourach you should be fine. They take a while to actually kill us so you don't have to slam Elephant Grass right away. Plus, maindeck Rest in Peace is a beating.

This is true, but playing a turn slower has never bothered me. BUG Delver really struggles against Sigil tokens and Words of War forces them to have Decay before you untap and wipe their board. If we have the time to set up, we win, which is what I think you're getting at.

[Freggle]

Stony silence is a card I've considered in the past, depending on what I expect the meta of an event to be like. But I don't think I could bring myself to play Spirit of the Labyrinth. I have sat down at the table across from spirit with enchantress, and it is almost enough to make me scoop. In fact, if I was playing enchantress, and I played a spirit of the Labyrinth of my own, I would scoop to myself.

LOL! As Bertrand Hustle said Stony Silence is very good in these MU's and does nothing to us (we board out helm.) It is absurdly powerful in other MU's as well.

@Spiritual Focus - Although it is true that it is not conditional to targeted vs. non-targeted discard it is conditional to discard. I would argue however, that the hand control function of BUG is not the issue we have vs. the deck. It is the board control. We beat hand control through redundancy alone.

@ BUG - In general when I design a strategy against a particular troublesome deck I look to define the problem, and then begin to search for cards that work well against that strategy as well as improve others. In this case I would personally defined the issue as the decks ability to control the board. The problem cards are Toxic Deluge, Abrupt Decay,Golgari Charm & Lilliana of the Veil.
As WG Enchantress we really do not have an explicit answer to this. Leyline of Sanctity can stop Lilliana, but vs. Charm and Toxic we are sitting ducks. Since Leyline is already valuable in other MU’s it should be strongly considered for this board strategy.

So I will start with + 4 Leyline of Sanctity
To fill out the rest we will focus on redundancy which will help sustain a board presence and fight through discard equally. The whole deck is contingent on resolving and sustaining an Enchantress effect, so more enchantress effects makes sense.

+1 Eidolon of Blossoms This will up the Enchantress effects to 14.
If I felt like I had board room I would test an additional win Sigil of the Empty Throne. This would help close the game faster, and fight through Lilliana.

In order to make room for these 5 cards I would likely make the following shaves:

-1 Banishing Light
-1Solitary Confinment
-1 Rest in Peace
-1 Elephant Grass

Okay, so after looking at the deck I don’t feel like cutting 5 is wise as a turn 2 Suppression Field can bottle-up any deck (especially this one.) So I’m down to 3 Leyline of Sanctity

+ 3 Leyline of Sanctity
+1 Eidolon of Blossoms

So my total 60 post board would be:

4 Argothian Enchantress
4 Enchantress’s Pressence
4 Green Sun’s Zenith
2 Eidolon of Blossoms
3 Suppression Field
2 Elephant Grass
2 Solitary Confinement
1 Emrakul
1 Helm of Obedience
4 Wild Growth
4 Utopia Sprawl
3 Mirri’s Guile
2 Rest in Peace
3 Leyline of Sanctity

1 Karakas
4 Serra’s Sanctum
4 Windswept Heath
1 Plains
11 Forest

…I’d test that for a bit, and see what happens, and make adjustments from there.

[Hoojo]

Have you considered Replenish over the second Eidolon?

[The_Dingo]

Have you considered Replenish over the second Eidolon?

My SB approach to BUG has been to rely on 3 RIPS to keep goyfs small and hamstring tombstalker and DRS. Do you think I should bring in replenish alongside the RIPs to combat decays and golgari charms? Or is it meant to be a replacement?

As an aside, I took a look at the OP for enchantress when I was brainstorming, and it is hopelessly out of date. Enchantress hasn't changed much since 2007 when the primer was written, but all the other decks sure have. It would be nice if someone with lots of experience with the deck who is a decent writer would give us an update.

[btm10]

My SB approach to BUG has been to rely on 3 RIPS to keep goyfs small and hamstring tombstalker and DRS. Do you think I should bring in replenish alongside the RIPs to combat decays and golgari charms? Or is it meant to be a replacement?

I don't mind running Replenish alongside RiP. I only run a single Replenish right now, but there's an argument for 2. If you're running GWb, there's also an argument for a Leyline of the Void/Rest in Peace mix to protect your Replenish strategy.



As an aside, I took a look at the OP for enchantress when I was brainstorming, and it is hopelessly out of date. Enchantress hasn't changed much since 2007 when the primer was written, but all the other decks sure have. It would be nice if someone with lots of experience with the deck who is a decent writer would give us an update.

I think the biggest limitation on writing a primer is that there really isn't a consensus build of the deck at this point. There's a core, and there was a discussion of what exactly the core was a few months (maybe almost a year at this point) ago...and beyond 4 Argothian, 4 Presence, 8 Growth+Sprawl, and some number of GSZ, there wasn't a whole lot of consensus. A lot of people in this thread have gone back to straight GW, but I still prefer GWr or GWb for cards like Blood Moon, Words of War, The Abyss, Engineered Plague, Words of Waste, and Duress/Thoughtseize. I'm far from sold that the utility of the splashes is outweighed by going straight GW.

[Freggle]

Have you considered Replenish over the second Eidolon?


here

I have considered it, but in all reality I haven't tested anything to the extent in which I used to test. ...just haven't been playing that much MTG. For me it really is a RIP vs. Replenish question. ...and I lean on RIP as it is more "proactive" and less "reactive."


I'm far from sold that the utility of the splashes is outweighed by going straight GW.
To rephrase this are you saying you are unsure as to which is more "correct?"


As an aside, I took a look at the OP for enchantress when I was brainstorming, and it is hopelessly out of date. Enchantress hasn't changed much since 2007 when the primer was written, but all the other decks sure have. It would be nice if someone with lots of experience with the deck who is a decent writer would give us an update.

BTM10 and I bounced the idea of a new primer around a few months back that never really got off the ground. I'm willing to help, or write it I just cannot promise a quick turn around. as BTM10 alluded to the primer would need to be split into different camps.

[The_Dingo]

BTM10 and I bounced the idea of a new primer around a few months back that never really got off the ground. I'm willing to help, or write it I just cannot promise a quick turn around. as BTM10 alluded to the primer would need to be split into different camps.

I nominate freggle to write the new primer! All in favor say aye.

But seriously, I think you have been playing w/ enchantress long enough to write a solid primer for the community.

[btm10]

To rephrase this are you saying you are unsure as to which is more "correct?"


Yes. By adding 1 Taiga or 1 Bayou I've been able to significantly shore up several matches (different for each color, for sure) and I haven't noticed a drop in consistency or had trouble with Wasteland cutting me off from colors. If the reason for going to straight GW is consistency/stability, I don't see the benefit. To use the Blood Moon as an example, you just win by resolving it against BUG Delver if they don't have Decay/Charm in hand and BG available if you can set up Confinement or kill them before their board kills you, which usually isn't hard when they have exactly 4 Counterspells to fight back with and no library manipulation to find them.



BTM10 and I bounced the idea of a new primer around a few months back that never really got off the ground. I'm willing to help, or write it I just cannot promise a quick turn around. as BTM10 alluded to the primer would need to be split into different camps.

I'm willing to help, but I'm moving in about a little more than a month, so I probably won't get much written at all before the end of November. You probably have more community buy-in as an authority than I do, so it's best for you to lead the project.

[Freggle]

Frankly I'm both flattered and overwhelmed. I got home from work today and typed out this outline that I think would make sense to flesh out. I'm sure I'm missing something, but i'll post it below. My focus since the spoiling of RTR has been WR Helm-chant-rest and I feel I can only really speak to that with some authority. If others would like to help please PM me because if we are going to do this I would like to do it right and enlist others that may up-to-date be authorities on other variants. Again this may take a bit, but I would prefer it to be correct than fast. ...who know we all may learn something in the process.

PS I fired up MODO for the first time in a long time the other day and stumbled around the beta wide client in an effort to ramp into steaming again. It's still on my radar, but may be a ways away yet.

Outline:

Enchantress
-One Line Definition
--Combo / Control / Prison
--Core cards

History through Magic
-Highlight Enchantress development in a Magic Card set timeline

Variants & Splashes
-- GWb
--GW Helm
--GWr
--UG

Heyday & Popularity

Card Choices
-Variance
-Statistical Analysis
--Variance to Meta-analysis
-Beating Strategies not decks, nor opponents & being well rounded to run tables

Playing Enchantress
-Philosophy: Combo, Control, Aggro
-Relativity of Magic: beating your opponent
-Combo or Control [Aggressor / Defender]

Order of operations & Enchantress Maximization
-Utopia Sprawl vs. Wild Growth
-Fetch or not to fetch

Important Game Rules
-Activated abilities vs Triggered abilities
-Replacement Effects
...

[starchild]

LOL! As Bertrand Hustle said Stony Silence is very good in these MU's and does nothing to us (we board out helm.) It is absurdly powerful in other MU's as well.

@Spiritual Focus - Although it is true that it is not conditional to targeted vs. non-targeted discard it is conditional to discard. I would argue however, that the hand control function of BUG is not the issue we have vs. the deck. It is the board control. We beat hand control through redundancy alone.

@ BUG - In general when I design a strategy against a particular troublesome deck I look to define the problem, and then begin to search for cards that work well against that strategy as well as improve others. In this case I would personally defined the issue as the decks ability to control the board. The problem cards are Toxic Deluge, Abrupt Decay,Golgari Charm & Lilliana of the Veil.
As WG Enchantress we really do not have an explicit answer to this. Leyline of Sanctity can stop Lilliana, but vs. Charm and Toxic we are sitting ducks. Since Leyline is already valuable in other MU’s it should be strongly considered for this board strategy.

So I will start with + 4 Leyline of Sanctity
To fill out the rest we will focus on redundancy which will help sustain a board presence and fight through discard equally. The whole deck is contingent on resolving and sustaining an Enchantress effect, so more enchantress effects makes sense.

+1 Eidolon of Blossoms This will up the Enchantress effects to 14.
If I felt like I had board room I would test an additional win Sigil of the Empty Throne. This would help close the game faster, and fight through Lilliana.

In order to make room for these 5 cards I would likely make the following shaves:

-1 Banishing Light
-1Solitary Confinment
-1 Rest in Peace
-1 Elephant Grass

Okay, so after looking at the deck I don’t feel like cutting 5 is wise as a turn 2 Suppression Field can bottle-up any deck (especially this one.) So I’m down to 3 Leyline of Sanctity

+ 3 Leyline of Sanctity
+1 Eidolon of Blossoms

So my total 60 post board would be:

4 Argothian Enchantress
4 Enchantress’s Pressence
4 Green Sun’s Zenith
2 Eidolon of Blossoms
3 Suppression Field
2 Elephant Grass
2 Solitary Confinement
1 Emrakul
1 Helm of Obedience
4 Wild Growth
4 Utopia Sprawl
3 Mirri’s Guile
2 Rest in Peace
3 Leyline of Sanctity

1 Karakas
4 Serra’s Sanctum
4 Windswept Heath
1 Plains
11 Forest

…I’d test that for a bit, and see what happens, and make adjustments from there.Good luck with your testing, look forward to your report ;) I'd hope there is a place for Sigil of the Empty Throne in your build. And...hope you find time for an updated primer, would have been awesome. Cheers!

[The_Dingo]

I don't mind running Replenish alongside RiP. I only run a single Replenish right now, but there's an argument for 2. If you're running GWb, there's also an argument for a Leyline of the Void/Rest in Peace mix to protect your Replenish strategy.

I do have 2 replenish in my board, and I was hesitant to bring them in alongside RIP, but I'll start testing that out.


I think the biggest limitation on writing a primer is that there really isn't a consensus build of the deck at this point. There's a core, and there was a discussion of what exactly the core was a few months (maybe almost a year at this point) ago...and beyond 4 Argothian, 4 Presence, 8 Growth+Sprawl, and some number of GSZ, there wasn't a whole lot of consensus. A lot of people in this thread have gone back to straight GW, but I still prefer GWr or GWb for cards like Blood Moon, Words of War, The Abyss, Engineered Plague, Words of Waste, and Duress/Thoughtseize. I'm far from sold that the utility of the splashes is outweighed by going straight GW.

I remember that we were unable to find a consensus on the build, but it makes a lot of sense that there isn't one. Some things like how many GSZ versus E tutor, versus Sterling grove is very much a preference call. As a prison deck, many of the lock pieces are meta dependent and so the exact configuration will vary wildly. I do think that there is a generalized formula however that almost everyone follows in terms of the ratio of enchantress effects, tutors (of one kind or another), acceleration, lock pieces, and win cons.

I was splashing black for E plague and dread of Night, but I always avoided leyline of the void. BB seemed too hard to cast w/ the way my lands were set up. How would you configure a mana base if your only black cards are in the SB?

[starchild]

I have done som adjustments to my deck, based on what I have seen here, hi Freggle! :)

I play in a semi-competive environment, all kinds of decks are represented in the Aggro, Control and Combo categories (more than 30 different decks), so I can face just any match up and sideboards. Any help will be highly appreciated. I have cut 4 Sterling Grove, City of Solitude, Moat, Oblivion Ring, Runed Halo, 2 Replenish (still like this one a lot!, but not so sure with R.I.P.), Words of War, Enlightened Tutor and a Taiga from my main and Humility, Karmic Justice, Wheel of Sun and Moon, 2 Ground Seal and a Lignify from my sideboard. Added Eidolon of Bloosoms, Helm/Emrakul, Supression Field main. Both main and SB could be changed. Any comments or suggestions will be highly appreicated. Many thanks in advance!

Current deck:

Creature [7]
4 Argothian Enchantress
2 Eidolon of Blossoms
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

Sorcery [4]
4 Green Sun's Zenith

Artifact [2]
2 Helm of Obedience

Enchantment [28]
3 Mirri's Guile
3 Elephant Grass
3 Solitary Confinement
4 Enchantress's Presence
3 Rest in Peace
1 Sigil of the Empty Throne
3 Supression Field
4 Wild Growth
4 Utopia Sprawl

Land [20]
10 Forest
1 Plains
4 Windswept Heath
1 Karakas
4 Serra's Sanctum
60 cards

Sideboard:
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Surgical Extraction
3 Carpet of Flowers
4 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Oblivion Ring
3 Stony Silence
15 cards

[btm10]

I do have 2 replenish in my board, and I was hesitant to bring them in alongside RIP, but I'll start testing that out.

I remember that we were unable to find a consensus on the build, but it makes a lot of sense that there isn't one. Some things like how many GSZ versus E tutor, versus Sterling grove is very much a preference call. As a prison deck, many of the lock pieces are meta dependent and so the exact configuration will vary wildly. I do think that there is a generalized formula however that almost everyone follows in terms of the ratio of enchantress effects, tutors (of one kind or another), acceleration, lock pieces, and win cons.

I was splashing black for E plague and dread of Night, but I always avoided leyline of the void. BB seemed too hard to cast w/ the way my lands were set up. How would you configure a mana base if your only black cards are in the SB?

Honestly, I'd just run a regular manabase and rely on Sprawl for fixing if my black spells only required B. If you're in the market for a maindeck card, I'd run a Bayou and at least a fifth fetch. As for Replenish, since it's especially useful against BGx (particularly BUG) decks, it doesn't hurt to have a Ground Seal in the sideboard for matchups where you want both Replenish and an answer to DRS. It's narrow, but it's frequently helpful. I don't think it's necessary, though.


I have done som adjustments to my deck, based on what I have seen here, hi Freggle! :)

I play in a semi-competive environment, all kinds of decks are represented in the Aggro, Control and Combo categories (more than 30 different decks), so I can face just any match up and sideboards. Any help will be highly appreciated. I have cut 4 Sterling Grove, City of Solitude, Moat, Oblivion Ring, Runed Halo, 2 Replenish (still like this one a lot!, but not so sure with R.I.P.), Words of War, Enlightened Tutor and a Taiga from my main and Humility, Karmic Justice, Wheel of Sun and Moon, 2 Ground Seal and a Lignify from my sideboard. Added Eidolon of Bloosoms, Helm/Emrakul, Supression Field main. Both main and SB could be changed. Any comments or suggestions will be highly appreicated. Many thanks in advance!


This looks fine at a glance, but I think if you're running Emrakul then you should have at least 1 Nykthos over a Sanctum, and potentially a 2/2 split. In addition to being a Sanctum-like effect for any color, it gives you mana for playing Argothians, and gives you GG for Eidolon. I'd also trim at least 1 and at most 2 copies of GSZ now that you have 10 'real' Enchantress effects. While you want Teeg out of the board, I'd probably cut Surgical for 1 GSZ, 1 Metagame Slot. There's really no purpose to running Surgical alongside a full set of Rest in Peace. Also, 3 Stony Silence seems like a lot. Is there a lot of Affinity or MUD in your meta?

[GoldenCid]

I was splashing black for E plague and dread of Night, but I always avoided leyline of the void. BB seemed too hard to cast w/ the way my lands were set up. How would you configure a mana base if your only black cards are in the SB?

If you are going to splash a third color my advice is to run at least 1 dual land that adds Gx i.e. Bayou in this case.
Iwould not relly just in sprawl for hitting the black. I agree that BB is very heavy and innecesary.

How many copies of Dread and plague do you run?

GC.

[The_Dingo]

I have yet to play against U/G infect, but it seems to be growing in popularity, and it seems like a pretty poor MU. Does anyone have experience or advice about which cards are good, which are bad, and how to board properly. If infect continues to grow in popularity, what weapons do we have to combat it?

[btm10]

I played against a version of it once, almost a year ago. I got turn 2'ed on the draw game 1, but had a pretty strong draw game 2 and pulled it out on the back of multiple copies of Elephant Grass. I lost game 3 to typical Infect shenanigans. I doubt that it's a good matchup. Melira, Sylvok Outcast as a GSZ target in the board is probably the best answer we have.


EDIT:

If you are going to splash a third color my advice is to run at least 1 dual land that adds Gx i.e. Bayou in this case.
Iwould not relly just in sprawl for hitting the black. I agree that BB is very heavy and innecesary.

How many copies of Dread and plague do you run?

GC.

It depends on what your splash is for. If you're going to run my list from last year (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?5302-Deck-Solitaire-%28Enchantress%29/page172), then the Bayou is probably needed. If you're going to just run 1-of The Abyss (in GWb) or 1-of Words of War (in GWr), then you'd rather run Fertile Ground or Abundant Growth and keep your mostlly basics mana base intact. I don't even think those are necessary additions, but they're preferable to relying on a 1-of nonbasic to color fix with any consistency.

[The_Dingo]

If you are going to splash a third color my advice is to run at least 1 dual land that adds Gx i.e. Bayou in this case.
Iwould not relly just in sprawl for hitting the black. I agree that BB is very heavy and innecesary.

How many copies of Dread and plague do you run?

GC.

I never really had much success w/ the black splash, and I am back on the GW plan, although when I was splashing for DoN and E plague I had 1 bayou 4 fetches. I never felt like the splashed cards had the huge, game swinging impact that I envisioned when I decided to add them to my SB. So since I couldn't just press the EZ button, I resigned myself to grinding out my wins the old fashioned way. Although humility plus DoN is as close to a hard lock as things get against DnT.


I played against a version of it once, almost a year ago. I got turn 2'ed on the draw game 1, but had a pretty strong draw game 2 and pulled it out on the back of multiple copies of Elephant Grass. I lost game 3 to typical Infect shenanigans. I doubt that it's a good matchup. Melira, Sylvok Outcast as a GSZ target in the board is probably the best answer we have.

It depends on what your splash is for. If you're going to run my list from last year (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?5302-Deck-Solitaire-%28Enchantress%29/page172), then the Bayou is probably needed. If you're going to just run 1-of The Abyss (in GWb) or 1-of Words of War (in GWr), then you'd rather run Fertile Ground or Abundant Growth and keep your mostlly basics mana base intact. I don't even think those are necessary additions, but they're preferable to relying on a 1-of nonbasic to color fix with any consistency.

If I end up playing Enchantress at GP NJ I will be sure to have a Melira for my SB. I tend to win a lot of my games on the back of multiple elephant grasses, it's basically an auto 4 of in my list at this point.

In regards to words of war I currently have 3 suppression field maindeck, which seems like a very unappealing interaction. Is it worth testing even w/ 3 suppression fields? Or maybe replace 1 w/ a WoW?

[btm10]

If I end up playing Enchantress at GP NJ I will be sure to have a Melira for my SB. I tend to win a lot of my games on the back of multiple elephant grasses, it's basically an auto 4 of in my list at this point.

In regards to words of war I currently have 3 suppression field maindeck, which seems like a very unappealing interaction. Is it worth testing even w/ 3 suppression fields? Or maybe replace 1 w/ a WoW?

I need to pick a deck for GPNJ as well, though a small chance that I won't be able to make it has popped up.

I've run WoW alongside Suppression Field before and it's been alright, but only with a singleton Field. It's fine but it does slow you down unless you're chaining Sanctums or have Sanctum + Nykthos.

[Freggle]

Honestly, I'd just run a regular manabase and rely on Sprawl for fixing if my black spells only required B. If you're in the market for a maindeck card, I'd run a Bayou and at least a fifth fetch. As for Replenish, since it's especially useful against BGx (particularly BUG) decks, it doesn't hurt to have a Ground Seal in the sideboard for matchups where you want both Replenish and an answer to DRS. It's narrow, but it's frequently helpful. I don't think it's necessary, though.

I ran some probabilities on a 3rd color using only 4 fetches, Sprawls, and a singleton dual land. I'm not certain my calculations were 100% but it was something like you were 40% less likely to have access to the 3rd color. That means 4 out of 10 games you wouldn't have the 3rd color on time. You could decrease by playing more fetches, but you would play more into Stifle and potentially Wasteland and you would likely drop the Suppression Field plan.




This looks fine at a glance, but I think if you're running Emrakul then you should have at least 1 Nykthos over a Sanctum, and potentially a 2/2 split. In addition to being a Sanctum-like effect for any color, it gives you mana for playing Argothians, and gives you GG for Eidolon. I'd also trim at least 1 and at most 2 copies of GSZ now that you have 10 'real' Enchantress effects. While you want Teeg out of the board, I'd probably cut Surgical for 1 GSZ, 1 Metagame Slot. There's really no purpose to running Surgical alongside a full set of Rest in Peace. Also, 3 Stony Silence seems like a lot. Is there a lot of Affinity or MUD in your meta?

Nykthos also adds more variance, taxes the mana base, and does not play well with Suppression Field. Three Stony Silence are there to hit fast hate on artifact based combo decks... ANT, TES as well as Shut down Sensei's Decks, MUD and Painter.


I have yet to play against U/G infect, but it seems to be growing in popularity, and it seems like a pretty poor MU. Does anyone have experience or advice about which cards are good, which are bad, and how to board properly. If infect continues to grow in popularity, what weapons do we have to combat it?

It is a poor MU, but winnable. Swords to Plowshares is a good way to draw kill cards and by turns. Swords also keeps hatebears off the table against D&T as well as exiles reanimated fatties from reanimator.


This post contains a list with all of the above mentioned cards.

[siqatzi]

Hello all :) I've had roughly the same enchantress list built for a couple of years (relatively toolboxy, 4 Groves, no GSZ, only 2 Serra's Sanctum) and I'm thinking of rebuilding it differently, better tuned to the relevant local/current Legacy metagame. I rather like the method of deckbuilding that builds the deck specifically to beat each possilble matchup and then takes an average of those (weighted towards more common and/or more difficult matchups). With that in mind, I've started constructing a list of cards relevant to fighting different archetypes/groups of decks/categories of cards. I wondered if anyone might be willing to take a look and suggest things that I've missed?

Blue decks
Choke
Carpet of Flowers
City of Solitude
Multani’s Presence
Spirit of the Labyrinth
Chains of Mephistopholes
In the Eye of Chaos
Mystic Remora

Storm decks
Rule of Law
Spirit of the Labyrinth
Leyline of Sanctity
Stranglehold
Nevermore
Runed Halo
Aegis of the Gods
Phyrexian Unlife
Gaddock Teeg

Tempo decks
Suppression Field
Choke
Blood Moon
Elephant Grass
Ghostly Prison
Sphere of Safety
Blind Obedience
Kirtar’s Desire
Carpet of Flowers

Creature-based aggro decks
Elephant Grass
Moat
Sphere of Safety
Ghostly Prison
Island Sanctuary
Words of War
Humility
Blind Obedience
Kirtar’s Desire

Artifact-heavy decks
Stony Silence
Seal of Cleansing
Seal of Primordium
Gaddock Teeg

Discard-heavy decks
Replenish
Spiritual Focus
Aegis of the Gods
Leyline of Sanctity
Compost
Mystic Remora

Board-control-heavy decks
Karmic Justice
Replenish
Sterling Grove
Mystic Remora

Land-based decks
Choke
Blood Moon
Suppression Field

Graveyard-based decks
Wheel of Sun and Moon
Rest in Peace
Leyline of the Void

Stoneblade decks
Suppression Field
Stony Silence
Humility
Seal of Cleansing
Seal of Primordium

Decks with planeswalkers
Suppression Field
Gaddock Teeg

Decks with huge creatures
Oblivion Ring
Banishing Light
Runed Halo
Kirtar’s Desire

Red decks
Warmth
Aegis of the Gods
Leyline of Sanctity
Blind Obedience
Nyx-Fleece Ram
Phyrexian Unlife
Sanctimony
Courser of Kruphix

Black decks
Compost

White decks
Dread of Night

Tribal decks
Engineered Plague

Playing as the beatdown/all-in on the combo
Eidolon of Blossoms
Green Sun’s Zenith
Serra’s Sanctum
Exploration
Courser of Kruphix
Elvish Spirit Guide
Chrome Mox
Solitary Confinement
Rest in Peace
Helm of Obedience
Energy Field

Playing as the control
Sterling Grove
Mirri’s Guile
Enlightened Tutor
Kruphix’s Insight
Blind Obedience
Sylvan Library
Mystic Remora

Thanks for any advice anyone can offer!

[Watersaw]

Storm decks
Eidolon of Rhetoric
Nether Void

Tempo decks
If Blood Moon fits in here, then Back to Basics makes sense

Creature-based aggro decks
Solitary Confinement

Artifact-heavy decks
Aura of Silence
Reclamation Sage
Blind Obedience

Board-control-heavy decks
Kruphix's Insight

Land-based decks
Rest in Peace and Ground Seal do a number on Life From the Loam

Graveyard-based decks
Ground Seal

Decks with huge creatures
Energy Field
Saw a guy running Glare of Subdual the other day. More on that later.

Red decks
Chill
Circle of Protection: Red

Black decks
Light of Day

Playing as the beatdown/all-in on the combo
Gitaxian Probe
Abundant Growth


Played pretty bad yesterday at the SCG Open in Edison. Had an embarrassing number of misplays and lost at least 3 matches to myself. I dunno. My ear was bothering me all day (and still is. I'd better get this looked at...) but I still should have done better.

Enough whining, what did we learn?
Eidolon of Blossoms and Suppression Field continue to be overperformers, while Sigil of the Empty Throne was never actually good. There was not one case where I actually wanted it and Emrakul, the Aeons Torn was not there that turn or one faster. Probably taking it out.
Stony Silence was never that relevant during the day. Matchups/already had Suppression Field etc.
Dryad Arbor as land 21 makes so many iffy hands playable.
Leyline of Sanctity is amazing against Esper Deathblade. Or at least it was both times I played them.
Reanimator is either absurdly hard or he got super lucky. Consistent turn 2 Griselbrand is not fair Magic.
As much as I've raved about Kruphix's Insight the card was awkward. I'm not sure how to put it into words but it felt like it was too much. Pretty cool against heavy removal though.
OmniTell is difficult. If they manage to play Show and Tell you need to not only have an answer to Omniscience but pray they don't have the Cunning Wish or whatever to ruin Banishing Light. I guess Gaddock Teeg is good here, but they can just wish for removal.
Painter dosn't seem too bad. Unless I got lucky.
Same with Jund Depths. Rest in Peace does a number on them.

There was another guy playing Enchantress there and we got to talk for a bit. I don't remember everything, but his list was NUTS. Highlights include:
Blind Obedience forcing a draw against Miracle by causing Helm of Obedience to ETB tapped on turn 5.
Mainboard Root Maze, wrecks fetchland manabases and artifacts in general. He thought it was alright and generally hurt them more than him.
Singleton Living Wish and while I didn't see his whole sideboards, I did see him board in... Riptide Chimera and Doomwake Giant, the later blowing out Storm post-Empty the Warrens. I lost my shit when I saw that happen.
I think there was 1of mainboard Courser of Kruphix? He was definitely playing the card.
Words of War and Words of Wind powered by Abundant Growth
Glare of Subdual, which he said was okay. Thought it was worth bringing up since it's a more proactive way to fight Sneak Attack and artifacts that aren't named Lotus Petal or Lion's Eye Diamond.
Seriously, the deck was awesome. IMO the second coolest deck I saw that day, falling only behind mono-black control with Decree of Pain and Kozilek, Butcher of Truth.

[Watersaw]

As for what I was playing, here's my slightly-modified-from-last-time pile:

Mainboard
4 Argothian Enchantress
1 Eidolon of Blossoms awesome, considering adding a second
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

4 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Kruphix's Insight it was okay, probably great if so much of the deck wasn't focused on making GSZ better

3 Elephant Grass
3 Mirri's Guile yeah, this card is still super strong
4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Wild Growth
3 Rest in Peace
3 Suppression Field
2 Solitary Confinement
4 Enchantress's Presence
1 Sigil of the Empty Throne was useless all day

1 Helm of Obedience it's really good, but I'm not sure if I wanna double up on it

1 Dryad Arbor mad useful
1 Karakas
2 Plains post-board white mana becomes so much more important. might add a third...
4 Windswept Heath
4 Serra's Sanctum
9 Forest ...or replace one of these with a Savannah

Sideboard
3 Swords to Plowshares
2 Stony Silence didn't feel like enough
1 Gaddock Teeg might try a second actually
1 Kruphix's Insight I had no idea what to do with this slot so I figured I'd test it out a bit. see above.
1 Oblivion Ring the split with this and
1 Banishing Light this actually felt perfect
2 Humility
4 Leyline of Sanctity still great

[Freggle]

Hello all :) I've had roughly the same enchantress list built for a couple of years (relatively toolboxy, 4 Groves, no GSZ, only 2 Serra's Sanctum) and I'm thinking of rebuilding it differently, better tuned to the relevant local/current Legacy metagame. I rather like the method of deckbuilding that builds the deck specifically to beat each possilble matchup and then takes an average of those (weighted towards more common and/or more difficult matchups). With that in mind, I've started constructing a list of cards relevant to fighting different archetypes/groups of decks/categories of cards. I wondered if anyone might be willing to take a look and suggest things that I've missed?

I think that this is a very good practice. This is largely how GW helm has been tuned. I think your categories are a bit too specific however. I think if you were to go through this exercise I would break it down to cards that are good vs. Combo, Control, or Aggro.

In doing so you also have to recognize that some cards are decent in 2 categories. Take for instance Solitary Confinement. It has good combo and aggro elements to it. i.e. 0 damage and player shroud respectively. I would even go as far to say that it inherently has some viability vs. control in that player shroud stops lilliana and discard, and it is an enchantment and will trigger draws if an enchantress effect is in play.

Rather then write all of these out with percentages of categories I think you could get a lot more information by graphing them. I would draw a triangle with equal sides. label each point combo, control, aggro. I'd plot points for cards in that "spectrum" If it's equally good in all 3 MU it should be dead center. That would identify a pool of cards that are strong across the board. Then from there you could test and weed out cards based off of other findings like mana cost...

...if your meta gets more askew to a certain style you just look at that part of the triangle.


As for what I was playing, here's my slightly-modified-from-last-time pile:

Mainboard
4 Argothian Enchantress
1 Eidolon of Blossoms awesome, considering adding a second
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

4 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Kruphix's Insight it was okay, probably great if so much of the deck wasn't focused on making GSZ better

3 Elephant Grass
3 Mirri's Guile yeah, this card is still super strong
4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Wild Growth
3 Rest in Peace
3 Suppression Field
2 Solitary Confinement
4 Enchantress's Presence
1 Sigil of the Empty Throne was useless all day

1 Helm of Obedience it's really good, but I'm not sure if I wanna double up on it

1 Dryad Arbor mad useful
1 Karakas
2 Plains post-board white mana becomes so much more important. might add a third...
4 Windswept Heath
4 Serra's Sanctum
9 Forest ...or replace one of these with a Savannah

Sideboard
3 Swords to Plowshares
2 Stony Silence didn't feel like enough
1 Gaddock Teeg might try a second actually
1 Kruphix's Insight I had no idea what to do with this slot so I figured I'd test it out a bit. see above.
1 Oblivion Ring the split with this and
1 Banishing Light this actually felt perfect
2 Humility
4 Leyline of Sanctity still great

It's unfortunate about your finish. It's easy to get tripped up when planning lines to outs. I liked the notes above as well.

[The_Dingo]

Reanimator is either absurdly hard or he got super lucky. Consistent turn 2 Griselbrand is not fair Magic.


I've played the enchantress reanimater MU quite a bit, and it feels so terribly skewed in their favor. Like 75/25, and the odds don't change much postboard. The problem is that it's hard to have an angle of attack or defense that is fast enough, and their best hands are unbeatable. In my experience, they always have the FoW for the RIP, and while Elephant grass is fine against griselbitch, he just draws 14 and we die a horrible death by elesh norn, or Iona, or tidespout tyrant.

On the plus side, Helm of obedience is super fun in this MU. If you get it rolling there is a good chance you can have a griselbrand of your very own! People are often surprised to read that helm can do anything w/out RiP in play.

I wish I had some helpful advice to offer, other than dodge that MU if you can!

[The_Dingo]

Has anyone here tried a super prisony U/G enchantress deck w/ 4 Root maze and 4 back to basics or something along that vein? I feel like that would be fun from our side, but not much fun for anyone else.

[Bertrand Hustle]

As for what I was playing, here's my slightly-modified-from-last-time pile:

Mainboard
4 Argothian Enchantress
1 Eidolon of Blossoms awesome, considering adding a second
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

4 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Kruphix's Insight it was okay, probably great if so much of the deck wasn't focused on making GSZ better

3 Elephant Grass
3 Mirri's Guile yeah, this card is still super strong
4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Wild Growth
3 Rest in Peace
3 Suppression Field
2 Solitary Confinement
4 Enchantress's Presence
1 Sigil of the Empty Throne was useless all day

1 Helm of Obedience it's really good, but I'm not sure if I wanna double up on it

1 Dryad Arbor mad useful
1 Karakas
2 Plains post-board white mana becomes so much more important. might add a third...
4 Windswept Heath
4 Serra's Sanctum
9 Forest ...or replace one of these with a Savannah

Sideboard
3 Swords to Plowshares
2 Stony Silence didn't feel like enough
1 Gaddock Teeg might try a second actually
1 Kruphix's Insight I had no idea what to do with this slot so I figured I'd test it out a bit. see above.
1 Oblivion Ring the split with this and
1 Banishing Light this actually felt perfect
2 Humility
4 Leyline of Sanctity still great
I abandoned Insight, but I totally agree on the second Plains. Tried using two this weekend and I really liked the second, especially post board for Plowshares.
Speaking of which... May sound risky, but I may try running some number of Plows mainboard, as the meta this weekend was pretty creature heavy.
I think 3 Stony Silence feels just right.

[siqatzi]

...

Thanks very much for the suggestions, those are really helpful!


I think that this is a very good practice. This is largely how GW helm has been tuned. I think your categories are a bit too specific however.

I quite agree. I'm starting by grouping useful cards according to relatively fine distinctions, to then use those lists as a resource when designing individual decklists. I think it would probably be impractical to come up with that many different full decklists and try to unify them somehow...


I think if you were to go through this exercise I would break it down to cards that are good vs. Combo, Control, or Aggro.

In doing so you also have to recognize that some cards are decent in 2 categories. Take for instance Solitary Confinement. It has good combo and aggro elements to it. i.e. 0 damage and player shroud respectively. I would even go as far to say that it inherently has some viability vs. control in that player shroud stops lilliana and discard, and it is an enchantment and will trigger draws if an enchantress effect is in play.

Though I agree that smaller categories are the way to go, I think perhaps "combo", "aggro" and "control" aren't the best categories to use - it seems to me like there are just too wildly varying strategies that could come under the same heading but for which very different hate cards are relevant (e.g. compare ANT and Sneaky Show, or Stax and Miracles), as well as some cases where decks in different headings benefit from the same hate cards. I wonder if an intermediate position, with some groupings of decks broader than I've started with but narrower than those three might be the way to go.


Rather then write all of these out with percentages of categories I think you could get a lot more information by graphing them. I would draw a triangle with equal sides. label each point combo, control, aggro. I'd plot points for cards in that "spectrum" If it's equally good in all 3 MU it should be dead center. That would identify a pool of cards that are strong across the board. Then from there you could test and weed out cards based off of other findings like mana cost...

...if your meta gets more askew to a certain style you just look at that part of the triangle.

This is a really interesting idea. I'll see what I can come up with..
Thanks very much for your advice!

[Watersaw]

I abandoned Insight, but I totally agree on the second Plains. Tried using two this weekend and I really liked the second, especially post board for Plowshares.
Speaking of which... May sound risky, but I may try running some number of Plows mainboard, as the meta this weekend was pretty creature heavy.
I think 3 Stony Silence feels just right.

Hell, I'm trying a 1of Gaddock Teeg in the main. It hasn't been too terrible so far.

Cut Sigil of the Empty Throne and went down to 2 mainboard Rest in Peace. If I feel uncomfortable with only two win conditions I'll add in... something else. EDIT: People have been experimenting with Banefire, right? How's that been working out?

So far the second Eidolon of Blossoms is doing work. That card should not be this good.

3 Plains is probably too many. Going back to 2.

[Dihensoeur]

Hi people,

I just would like to suggest to you an idea:

What about a Enchantress deck with Doran, the Siege Tower ?

With by example cards like:

Pharika, God of Affliction
Courser of Kruphix
Nyx-Fleece Ram


You gain time (body + life with sheep+Courser) and you can get some power with Doran (that reduce Delver / TNN).

Regards,
Dihensoeur

[U_mage]

Hi people,

I just would like to suggest to you an idea:

What about a Enchantress deck with Doran, the Siege Tower ?

With by example cards like:

Pharika, God of Affliction
Courser of Kruphix
Nyx-Fleece Ram


You gain time (body + life with sheep+Courser) and you can get some power with Doran (that reduce Delver / TNN).

Regards,
Dihensoeur

That doesn't seem very good. The Dorans and snake tokens don't trigger enchantresses, and the extra creatures turn on opposing removal which could be otherwise blank

[The_Dingo]

Hi people,

I just would like to suggest to you an idea:

What about a Enchantress deck with Doran, the Siege Tower ?

With by example cards like:

Pharika, God of Affliction
Courser of Kruphix
Nyx-Fleece Ram


You gain time (body + life with sheep+Courser) and you can get some power with Doran (that reduce Delver / TNN).

Regards,
Dihensoeur

It's cute, but I have to agree with U mage that turning on my opponents removal in G1 is a pretty unappealing idea. Especially if I want my opponent to board out the removal in G2 so I can bring in Teeg unopposed. I'm also not sure which matchups this is supposed to improve? The ram courser "lock" seems much softer than a solitary confinement lock.

What would you remove from the maindeck in order to accommodate these creatures?

[Dihensoeur]

It's cute, but I have to agree with U mage that turning on my opponents removal in G1 is a pretty unappealing idea. Especially if I want my opponent to board out the removal in G2 so I can bring in Teeg unopposed. I'm also not sure which matchups this is supposed to improve? The ram courser "lock" seems much softer than a solitary confinement lock.

It's just an idea in order to test and think about another way for Enchantress.

About removals, I see only StP because Liliana and decay work on everything and all creatures are bolt-proof.


What would you remove from the maindeck in order to accommodate these creatures?

I would like to change everything because the deck is for me too weak, too based on few cards counterable and mainly Enchantress has scarcely cards to manage opponents.
By example remove at least x4 wild growth because there is no deck with so many accelerator and Enchantress isn't a quick combo deck. It needs, for me, creatures (for defense/attack/Liliana), removal/control cards to manage opponent's board and combo players.

By the way, it's just an idea to try something new because after many years with Enchantress, I'm personally convinced that classical enchantress can't be competitive actually. But I oblige no one to try my crazy idea. If you like I will be happy, otherwise never mind!

[btm10]

By example remove at least x4 wild growth because there is no deck with so many accelerator and Enchantress isn't a quick combo deck.

This, right here, shows that your biggest problem with Enchantress is that you don't understand how to play it. Wild Growth and Utopia Sprawl are indispensable when "going off" with Enchantress because they're effectively 0 mana draw spells as long as you have an untapped land to enchant. They enable turn 2 Argothians through Daze and turn 2 Presences and GSZs for 2. Without the acceleration 8 Growth effects provide we'd be far, far worse off because our limitation is that Enchantress is too slow to compete against combo rather than being weak in noncombo matches. Adding creatures isn't going to help the deck; it's going to make it worse in its worst matchups. As for interaction, we have removal for any permanent and ways to give ourselves shroud. That's all we need unless you want to add discard.

[Bertrand Hustle]

This, right here, shows that your biggest problem with Enchantress is that you don't understand how to play it. Wild Growth and Utopia Sprawl are indispensable when "going off" with Enchantress because they're effectively 0 mana draw spells as long as you have an untapped land to enchant. They enable turn 2 Argothians through Daze and turn 2 Presences and GSZs for 2. Without the acceleration 8 Growth effects provide we'd be far, far worse off because our limitation is that Enchantress is too slow to compete against combo rather than being weak in noncombo matches. Adding creatures isn't going to help the deck; it's going to make it worse in its worst matchups. As for interaction, we have removal for any permanent and ways to give ourselves shroud. That's all we need unless you want to add discard.
This... You need a VERY good reason to board out the card, let alone remove it altogether. This card forms the backbone on which the deck's consistency hinges.

[The_Dingo]

With so much discussion about dig through time and treasure cruise I can't help but think that the main deck RIPs are going to help us gain even more traction against U/R delver, and patriot delver. The U/R delver list that won the Jersey SCG open seems like perfect prey for us, and I can't hope but help that it grows in popularity. The Elephant grass keeps young pyro under wraps, and slows monastery swiftspear significantly, since that card is only dangerous when they can cast many spells per turn.

If combo decks like Show and Tell also pick up dig through time, that could be good for us potentially, but the downside is that they gain a LOT of consistency if we are unable to exile their GY.

What are your thoughts? Is there anything we should be doing to capitalize on the newest legacy toys?

[Mortox]

With so much discussion about dig through time and treasure cruise I can't help but think that the main deck RIPs are going to help us gain even more traction against U/R delver, and patriot delver. The U/R delver list that won the Jersey SCG open seems like perfect prey for us, and I can't hope but help that it grows in popularity. The Elephant grass keeps young pyro under wraps, and slows monastery swiftspear significantly, since that card is only dangerous when they can cast many spells per turn.

If combo decks like Show and Tell also pick up dig through time, that could be good for us potentially, but the downside is that they gain a LOT of consistency if we are unable to exile their GY.

What are your thoughts? Is there anything we should be doing to capitalize on the newest legacy toys?

Agree completely. I think the fact that many blue decks are now going to become more graveyard reliant is good for us, it might be time to bank more heavily on the RiP/Helm plan than ever before, maybe going back upto 4 RiP MD. Lots of the BUG variants are talking about running some number of Treasure Cruise as well meaning that an early unanswered RiP will turn off like 10-12+ cards in their MD. I don't think the RiPs will be as significant against the decks running Dig Through Time since it seems those will mainly be combo variants such as Omni, Sneak&Show, etc. which can operate even without a graveyard - it'll maybe give a couple extra percentage points to us that we didn't have before but overall those decks will operate similar to how they always have against us.

Basically the popularity of Treasure Cruise should help our Delver matchups at the very least.

On a side note I've been thinking about giving UB Tezz another look, with 4 Leyline of the Void and 1-2 Helms, could be good (and Abrupt Decay-proof)

[siqatzi]

Wild Growth and Utopia Sprawl are indispensable when "going off" with Enchantress because they're effectively 0 mana draw spells as long as you have an untapped land to enchant. They enable turn 2 Argothians through Daze and turn 2 Presences and GSZs for 2. Without the acceleration 8 Growth effects provide we'd be far, far worse off because our limitation is that Enchantress is too slow to compete against combo rather than being weak in noncombo matches. Adding creatures isn't going to help the deck; it's going to make it worse in its worst matchups. As for interaction, we have removal for any permanent and ways to give ourselves shroud. That's all we need unless you want to add discard.

I wonder what people's experiences are with Exploration? I've seen lists running it, but not yet tested it much myself. It seems to me that it fits into the Wild Growth/Utopia Sprawl slots. Like them, it becomes a zero-mana draw spell while comboing off, given the right conditions. The right condition for Wild Growth being an additional untapped land to enchant, while the right condition for Exploration being an additional land in hand. Obviously the condition for Exploration is slightly more restrictive, but on the other hand it can net you a lot of mana if the additional land you play is a Sanctum.

So I wondered whether people who have run some number of Exploration have replaced some number of Wild Growth and/or Utopia Sprawl to fit them in?

[The_Dingo]

I wonder what people's experiences are with Exploration? I've seen lists running it, but not yet tested it much myself. It seems to me that it fits into the Wild Growth/Utopia Sprawl slots. Like them, it becomes a zero-mana draw spell while comboing off, given the right conditions. The right condition for Wild Growth being an additional untapped land to enchant, while the right condition for Exploration being an additional land in hand. Obviously the condition for Exploration is slightly more restrictive, but on the other hand it can net you a lot of mana if the additional land you play is a Sanctum.

So I wondered whether people who have run some number of Exploration have replaced some number of Wild Growth and/or Utopia Sprawl to fit them in?

I currently have 1 exploration in the deck, because I like the way it allows mid to late game explosiveness. At one point I had as many as 3, but the problem with exploration is that it is very bad in the beginning of the game. Having multiples in an opening hand does much less for an explosive start than having multiple wild growths.

But if you draw one or two when you start going off, it feels like you can just draw and play your whole deck off of multiple sanctums. It certainly makes it much easier to cast emrakul, or to make sigil very productive the turn on which you play it.

I would recommend trying 1-2 explorations in addition to the 8 wild growth and utopia sprawl just to get a feel for it, since it can lead to some crazy draw chains. I don't think it can be a replacement, and I don't really think it provides help much in the early/mid game, when we are most vulnerable.

[siqatzi]

I currently have 1 exploration in the deck, because I like the way it allows mid to late game explosiveness. At one point I had as many as 3, but the problem with exploration is that it is very bad in the beginning of the game. Having multiples in an opening hand does much less for an explosive start than having multiple wild growths.

But if you draw one or two when you start going off, it feels like you can just draw and play your whole deck off of multiple sanctums. It certainly makes it much easier to cast emrakul, or to make sigil very productive the turn on which you play it.

I would recommend trying 1-2 explorations in addition to the 8 wild growth and utopia sprawl just to get a feel for it, since it can lead to some crazy draw chains. I don't think it can be a replacement, and I don't really think it provides help much in the early/mid game, when we are most vulnerable.

Thanks very much! I'll try 1-2 in addition to the other forms of ramp and see how it feels.

[Mickeymouck]

So I'm brand new to the site and first time poster but I have been reading along and feel its time i join in the conversation. I have been playing G/W Enchantress for about 2 years now. Just trying to now get opinions on my build that I'm trying to get together for GPNJ

Creatures:
1 Emrakul
4 Argothian Enchantress
1 Eidolon of Blossoms

Spells:
4 GSZ
1 Banefire

Artifacts:
1 Helm of obedience

Enchantments:
4 Enchantress's Presence
3 Mirri's Guile
3 Suppression Field
4 Wild Growth
4 Utopia Sprawl
3 Rest in Peace
3 Solitary Confinement
4 Elephant Grass
1 Oblivion Ring

Lands:
1 Karakas
3 Serra's Sanctum
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Bayou
1 Taiga
1 Savannah
2 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept heath
4 Forest
1 Plains

Sideboard: (in Flux)
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Engineered Plaque
2 Dread of Night
4 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Carpet of Flowers
1 Sphere of Safety
1 Melira




So a few things i would like input on is

#1 yes i know Im splashing 2 colors, enchantress to me had gotten rather stale and ppl started to expect my typical build so I went for something a little different the black splash is for sideboard options and the red is for the singleton Banefire that has been so far exceeding my expectations

#2 is what your thoughts are that I can change in the sideboard so far me and my test group believe that in GPNJ we are going to see a lot of U/R delver, Miracles, Infect and D&T and i feel that my 75 has decent shots against them

So some of my card choices and 4 color splash are a little weird and I would like to explain why I'm making those decisions
the first is my desire to splash the 4th color for banefire in testing I have come to dread opponents planeswalkers and this gives me a sure fire way of just dealing with them that my opponents A don't see coming and B cant be countered(also helps when you can just throw it at your opponents face without fear of a counter)
suppresion field has been the best thing this deck has had since sliced bread! hands down mvp vs infect and Miracles it just does everything for me(most of you already know that about the card thought)
the 4th elephant grass is just a meta choice my meta is very aggro based just as i believe GPNJ will be and its the best stopper out there.
Melira...yeah ... infect can hurt best thing i can think of gsz target
carpet of flowers in side board...not even sure if i want it there or in main

Thanks!!!

[btm10]

If you're splashing red, you should run Blood Moon. The card is insane right now. I haven't tested Banefire yet, but it seems very strong.

[Mickeymouck]

If you're splashing red, you should run Blood Moon. The card is insane right now. I haven't tested Banefire yet, but it seems very strong.

Blood moon is strong and it is going to be in my sideboard for gpnj

[The_Dingo]

So I'm brand new to the site and first time poster but I have been reading along and feel its time i join in the conversation. I have been playing G/W Enchantress for about 2 years now. Just trying to now get opinions on my build that I'm trying to get together for GPNJ

Creatures:
1 Emrakul
4 Argothian Enchantress
1 Eidolon of Blossoms

Spells:
4 GSZ
1 Banefire

Artifacts:
1 Helm of obedience

Enchantments:
4 Enchantress's Presence
3 Mirri's Guile
3 Suppression Field
4 Wild Growth
4 Utopia Sprawl
3 Rest in Peace
3 Solitary Confinement
4 Elephant Grass
1 Oblivion Ring

Lands:
1 Karakas
3 Serra's Sanctum
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Bayou
1 Taiga
1 Savannah
2 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept heath
4 Forest
1 Plains

Sideboard: (in Flux)
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Engineered Plaque
2 Dread of Night
4 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Carpet of Flowers
1 Sphere of Safety
1 Melira




So a few things i would like input on is

#1 yes i know Im splashing 2 colors, enchantress to me had gotten rather stale and ppl started to expect my typical build so I went for something a little different the black splash is for sideboard options and the red is for the singleton Banefire that has been so far exceeding my expectations

#2 is what your thoughts are that I can change in the sideboard so far me and my test group believe that in GPNJ we are going to see a lot of U/R delver, Miracles, Infect and D&T and i feel that my 75 has decent shots against them

So some of my card choices and 4 color splash are a little weird and I would like to explain why I'm making those decisions
the first is my desire to splash the 4th color for banefire in testing I have come to dread opponents planeswalkers and this gives me a sure fire way of just dealing with them that my opponents A don't see coming and B cant be countered(also helps when you can just throw it at your opponents face without fear of a counter)
suppresion field has been the best thing this deck has had since sliced bread! hands down mvp vs infect and Miracles it just does everything for me(most of you already know that about the card thought)
the 4th elephant grass is just a meta choice my meta is very aggro based just as i believe GPNJ will be and its the best stopper out there.
Melira...yeah ... infect can hurt best thing i can think of gsz target
carpet of flowers in side board...not even sure if i want it there or in main

Thanks!!!

I like your maindeck, which is very similar to my own. Probably why I like it so much.

In regards to the sideboard, the 2 dread of night seem weird to me, unless you are in a weird meta full of DnT and Maverick. Is there a reason for having 2 of them?

Are the engineered plagues there for elves? I could definitely get on board w/ 2 of those, since recent experience w/ elves has shown that I need some help in the MU.

[Mickeymouck]

I like your maindeck, which is very similar to my own. Probably why I like it so much.

In regards to the sideboard, the 2 dread of night seem weird to me, unless you are in a weird meta full of DnT and Maverick. Is there a reason for having 2 of them?

Are the engineered plagues there for elves? I could definitely get on board w/ 2 of those, since recent experience w/ elves has shown that I need some help in the MU.

Yeah the 2 dread of night is for those, we have a small legacy meta (sneak and show, maverick, d&t, merfolk and infect with few others every once and a while. I'm not running sterling grove so sometimes hitting dread is very unlikely, and I have yet to beat our death and taxes player once

The EPs are in the board for 1 elves we have 1 player who likes to show up time to time, but also for merfolk and again d&t

[Freggle]

Yeah the 2 dread of night is for those, we have a small legacy meta (sneak and show, maverick, d&t, merfolk and infect with few others every once and a while. I'm not running sterling grove so sometimes hitting dread is very unlikely, and I have yet to beat our death and taxes player once

The EPs are in the board for 1 elves we have 1 player who likes to show up time to time, but also for merfolk and again d&t

You may want to try 2-3 Swords to Plowshares That helps keep the pesky Hatebears clear in D&T, and works against Infect, Merfolk, and Maverick as well It's on-color to boot.

[Mickeymouck]

You may want to try 2-3 Swords to Plowshares That helps keep the pesky Hatebears clear in D&T, and works against Infect, Merfolk, and Maverick as well It's on-color to boot.

Definetly going to try that out

on another note anyone here going to GPNJ?

[Loxmatii]

friends, plz tell me why do everybody began to play Eidolon of Blossoms. It dies by stp and bolt. so why dont you play enchantress for 3 mana? it wiil be more easy to cast it and to find it with zentih
we will not draw a card, if they counter it. so?

i understand, that the difference, that it draws a card for itself, and thats all about advantages above Verduran Enchantress?


second question about not playing sterling grove. so much abrupt everywhere. so we cant protect our permanents

[ForlornEgoist]

friends, plz tell me why do everybody began to play Eidolon of Blossoms. It dies by stp and bolt. so why dont you play enchantress for 3 mana? it wiil be more easy to cast it and to find it with zentih
we will not draw a card, if they counter it. so?

i understand, that the difference, that it draws a card for itself, and thats all about advantages above Verduran Enchantress?


second question about not playing sterling grove. so much abrupt everywhere. so we cant protect our permanents

Well, the thing about Sterling Grove is that we don't particularly need it right now. The prevalent decks are DnT, Delver, Miracles, Elves, Sneaky/Show, BUG Shardless. Elves runs the utility elf for disenchanting but that's really all that actually targets our enchantments. Beyond that the decks primarily rely on counters or generic SB answers to deal with our enchantments. Once we resolve an enchanment more than likely its gonna stay there. Yeah, Grove is a tutor but blue decks absolutely LOVE it when we lose a turn via tutor as they'll just counter it. This is one reason why many decks have fallen back more heavily onto cards like Guile for filtering our draws. Grove can still be run but there's very little purpose in running it anymore.

Even ETutor can be removed our kept at 2 and that's primarily for tutoring your Helm once you've established a soft lock.

Forlorn

[Watersaw]

friends, plz tell me why do everybody began to play Eidolon of Blossoms. It dies by stp and bolt. so why dont you play enchantress for 3 mana? it wiil be more easy to cast it and to find it with zentih
we will not draw a card, if they counter it. so?

i understand, that the difference, that it draws a card for itself, and thats all about advantages above Verduran Enchantress?


second question about not playing sterling grove. so much abrupt everywhere. so we cant protect our permanents

Eidolon of Blossoms draws cards upon ETB, so a 4-point Green Sun's Zenith will at least replace itself. This has saved my life more than a few times. And if you ever actually cast it it triggers your enchantresses and cantrips.

I feel like, as good as Sterling Grove is, it's just too damn slow. The card does actual nothing on its own and it doesn't stop them from just killing you.

[The_Dingo]

friends, plz tell me why do everybody began to play Eidolon of Blossoms. It dies by stp and bolt. so why dont you play enchantress for 3 mana? it wiil be more easy to cast it and to find it with zentih
we will not draw a card, if they counter it. so?

i understand, that the difference, that it draws a card for itself, and thats all about advantages above Verduran Enchantress?


second question about not playing sterling grove. so much abrupt everywhere. so we cant protect our permanents

Having one Eidolon of blossoms turns a top deck GSZ from a wasted turn into at least a cantrip, which is actually pretty great. It also diversifies our GSZ-able enchantress effects so that we don't get blown out by golgari charm taking down multiple argothians in one go.

As for sterling grove, I stopped playing it because of multiple suppression fields maindeck. Also, I would prefer to play redundant copies of all the important effects rather than tutoring for them.

[The_Dingo]

Went 5-3 at the Legacy open on Sunday.

4 Argothian
1 Emrakul
1 Eidolon of blossoms

3 GSZ

4 Enchantresses presence
4 Elephant grass
1 Exploration
2 Mirri's Guile
1 Oblivion ring
3 Rest in Peace
1 Sigil of the empty throne
3 Solitary confinement
3 suppression field
4 Wild growth
4 Utopia sprawl

1 Helm of obedience

1 Bayou
1 dryad arbor
7 forest
1 karakas
1 plains
1 savannah
4 serra's sanctum
4 windswept heath

SB
4 Leyline of sanctity
1 gaddock teeg
1 melira
1 reclamation sage
2 Engineered plague
2 sterling grove
1 humility
1 grafdigger's cage
1 o ring
1 choke

R1 2-0 vs Burn Not much to say about this match. Solitary lock won both games.
1-0

R2 1-2 vs Reanimator I mull to 5 G1, never find a forest, die to griselbrand several turns later. G2 grafdigger's cage T1 followed by lots of not doing much for a while. He was unable to beat the cage however. G3 I had a great hand, which is never good enough to beat great reanimator hands, especially on the draw.
1-1

R3 2-1 vs UR delver I don't really remember specifics, but elephant grass and suppression slowed the beats for many turns before I assemble helm/RIP combo. G2 he keeps me off enchantress and kills me quickly w/ delvers and swiftspears. G3 was a repeat of g1.
2-1

R4 2-1 vs UWR Control He uses his counters and main deck council's judgements (2 of them) to blow up my enchantresses, but I assemble the RIP helm combo off of some lucky top decks to win the game. G2 was similar to G1, except there was no lucky helm/rip win, and I die to Jace and too V clique. G3 Once again elephant grass and suppression field work in tandem to slow my opponent, while I fight my way through counters, removal, V clique, and Jace fate seals to hard cast emrakul.
3-1

R5 2-1 vs UR delver He beat me down to 4 w/ a variety of creatures, while I set up a lock. In all honesty, he should have won this game easy, but he had one delver that refused to flip for about 4-5 turns. G2 I lose to bolts and delvers. I remember very little of G3 except that we went to time, and I won on turn 3 of extra turns with helm.
4-1

R6 2-1 vs elves G1 I kept a super sketchy hand w/ RIP, helm, sanctum and some lands. I survive to turn 4 and helm him. G2 I got hoofed really hard. G3 I accelerate into T2 enchantresses presence which he decays, and then T3 argothian and RIP which he spends his 4th turn decaying. He gets some nettle sentinel beats going until I hit E plague, then another E plague a turn later locks him out. I really feel like we have to get super lucky to win this match. Does anyone have any advice for this match?
5-1

R7 0-2 vs RUG delver w/ treasure cruise and young pyromancer instead of nimble mongoose. Keep a pretty decent hand G1 that let me cast argothian w/ daze mana on T2. It resolves. Then I draw a bunch of white enchantments and no plains. My board when I died was 4 forests and an argothian, and my hand was emrakul, sigil, 2 solitary, helm, RIP, suppression field. Game 2 I resolved a T2 enchantress then proceeded to draw forests for 4 straight turns.
5-2

R8 1-2 vs UR delver G1 he wins w/ minimal difficulty, keeping me off of anything useful. G2 my only hope was that he didn't have Force of will for my Helm, which he didn't, so helm resolved and we went to G3. I keep a decent hand w/ multiple enchantress effects, but he gets lots of early pressure, and I was unable to establish any meaningful lock in time. Fatigue also may have contributed to some play errors, but I can't guarantee that I would have won, even w/out the mistakes.
5-3

I played against UR delver 3 times, and I believe that elephant grass is key to defeating these decks, since they often want to play multiple spells a turn to trigger swiftspear or young pyromancer, and e grass does a wonderful job of constricting their mana. The combination of elephant grass and suppression field was especially effective in this regard, and many opponents commented on their frustration at playing against these 2 cards.

My hands were often made awkward by having way more white spells than white mana, and I want to cut a RIP (and maybe a solitary confinement) for more 1 CMC green enchantments. Possibly a 3rd Mirri's guile, since the card is so amazing to have in the early game.

[btm10]

That's a pretty strong finish nonetheless. I think I'd add another Plains (or two) over some of the Forests or one of the Sanctums to help your white mana issues, though.

[Freggle]

Nice Showing! My favorite line of your report:


G3 Once again elephant grass and suppression field work in tandem to slow my opponent, while I fight my way through counters, removal, V clique, and Jace fate seals to hard cast emrakul.

That's awesome, and it's exactly why Emrakul is there.

As for beating Elves. Timely Swords to Plowshares / O-ring effects / Suppression field can slow them down quite a bit. Obviously outside of Decay Confinement just wins. ...I'm finding Plow cleans up a fair amount of bad MU's

Lastly, the white mana issue. This surprised me. I play roughly the same manabase and have had very few mana issues (though it does happen.) ...and when it does it because of a lack of green. I have the stats on it somewhere if I come across the percentages by turn I'll share here.

[Hoojo]

Very impressive finish. How did Sigil of the Empty Throne do throughout the day? I do think 3 Mirri's Guile is the way to go, even if it is a 1cc draw 2+ cards later on. How was Dryad Arbor?

As for the Elves matchup, have you tried Blind Obedience in conjunction with Engineered Plague? Spot removal like Swords to Plowshares helps a bit too.

[Bertrand Hustle]

I like Suppression Field and Plowshares a lot vs Elves personally.

[The_Dingo]

Thanks for the feedback. I'm going to shift some cards around and make room for plow in the SB based your advice.

Sigil of the empty throne was the under performer of the day for sure. I cast it twice and never once sealed the deal w/ angel tokens. It may be time to reevaluate the card. When sterling grove was in the deck sigil was my most reliable win con because it could be tutored. I guess I'll just have to pay attention to it in the future.

Dryad arbor had his good moments and his bad ones. He did an adequate job of accelerating me on several occasions, and he did an equally adequate job of causing mulligans due to being the only green source in an otherwise keepable hand. There were a few occasions where he ate a T1 bolt or wasteland, which I was pretty happy about since it set my opponent back a whole turn. I guess in the balance, he helped more than he hurt.

[forestfold]

I like Suppression Field and Plowshares a lot vs Elves personally.

I am not sure if it is castable, but Aether Flash effectively neuters elves. RR2 is basically impossible though. In my blue hybrid build I was running Mana Maze, which is a hilarious answer and moderately effective. When playing at the same speed, I always found my deck to be a lot more powerful. Suppression Field and Blind Obedience are probably the easiest answers though. I don't like the StP in this deck, but I can see where you would be interested in it. Cursed Totem is also a very strong card against Elves, and doesn't hurt us at all. Torpor Orb is a worse version, but also doesn't hurt us. And there is always Humility. That nerfs... well, everything.

[simdude]

So I recently played in a New Jersey GPT last weekend and really underperformed going 1-4 losing to BUG Delver, Reanimator, Oops All Spells, and Death and Taxes picking up my only win in the last round vs. Maverick. As a result I've decided to change up my plan from a living wish plan which I was becoming increasingly disappointed. I'll be at eternal weekend playing in the main legacy event with the current following list.

Enchantment (29)
1x City of Solitude
4x Elephant Grass
4x Enchantress's Presence
2x Rest in Peace
1x Sigil of the Empty Throne
3x Solitary Confinement
1x Sphere of Safety
4x Sterling Grove
1x Suppression Field
4x Utopia Sprawl
4x Wild Growth

Land (20)
7x Forest
3x Plains
2x Savannah
3x Serra's Sanctum
1x Taiga
4x Windswept Heath

Creature (5)
4x Argothian Enchantress
1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

Instant (2)
2x Enlightened Tutor

Sorcery (3)
3x Green Sun's Zenith

Artifact (1)
1x Helm of Obedience

Sideboard (15)
1x Aura of Silence
1x Blood Moon
1x Circle of Protection: Red
1x Grafdigger's Cage
1x Humility
1x Karmic Justice
3x Leyline of Sanctity
1x Oblivion Ring
2x Replenish
1x Runed Halo
2x Silence

Some of my big decisions going into the weekend include if I want to have the Enlightened Tutors or not, maybe include a second Aura of Silence since a lot of the new draw hate gets hit by it, and majorly whether or not to maindeck Blood Moon. The weirdest current inclusion in the sideboard is probably Silence which was something I play testing with for the last week online but it's very tough to say how effective it has been given such limited testing. It's also pretty high on the chopping block if I want ot make any last second substitutions. I also recently took out the 4th Leyline from my sideboard and it just feels weird. I would really appreciate any thoughts anyone has because I would really like to show up much better than last weekend.

[JankMaster]

Does everyone feel like enchantress gets better or worse. With the heavy influx of fair decks running TC?

[Freggle]

Does everyone feel like enchantress gets better or worse. With the heavy influx of fair decks running TC?

I'm not the best to answer this because I have not been actively playing for a few months, however it seems if I interoperate the question correctly the question answers itself.

When it come to GW RIP enchantress the answer is the deck is "better." Enchantress is a deck that typically crushes fair strategies, however there are some caveats to this i.e. D&T.

Threshold can also be an issue if you are playing a build that does not max out on at least 12 Enchantress effects (Argothian, Pressence, GSZ) so that can stick an effect and function from there.

...but throughout the history of Magic Enchantress dominated in "fair" metagames i.e. Goblins era. So yes the deck does get an upswing. RIP also "answers" Treasure Cruise well, but frankly an opponent drawing 3 cards against an enchantress deck is not the biggest fear for the enchantress player as we have likely drawn 3+ if we are functioning correctly.

Current RIP builds of GW RIP Enchantress should be able to roll UR Delver decks with TC. So long as the enchantress player is playing with Plow, Elephant Grass & 3+ Confinements. Suppression Field could also easily punish such a strategy. I'm not even sure if it is worth boarding in Leyline in the MU. It would take some test games to determine. My inclining is no, so you don't draw into them under soft permission, and you have a 4 drop in tour hand.

Also, reading what I posted earlier about Elves I cannot believe I forgot to mention you also board in Gaddock. This shuts off Natural Order & GSZ making it very hard for Elves to combo win.

Edit:

Also, since it's fun to do I will mention this as well. You just beat Dredge with a combo of Gaddock, and Elephant Grass as well. You don't need to land a RIP, but that is where you will get the concession.

[forestfold]

I'm not the best to answer this because I have not been actively playing for a few months, however it seems if I interoperate the question correctly the question answers itself.
.
.
.
Also, since it's fun to do I will mention this as well. You just beat Dredge with a combo of Gaddock, and Elephant Grass as well. You don't need to land a RIP, but that is where you will get the concession.

I am in the same boat, I have been playing RUG Delver and Deathblade for the last few months, but I still have G/W/u enchantress together, and all the cards for /r set aside. I still have yet to lose to dredge (I've never been turn zero'd though) and there have been 3 people in my MU running it. RIP main and Grass is enough to generally crush them. I haven't done a lot of testing against the new versions of delver, but I plan on doing so in the coming two weeks so I can decide what I am playing for GP NJ. It seems like the waters might be just right for the ol' girl though, at least at a national level. The only problem with the northeast is we seem to have an above-average number of Elves decks, and that match up is pretty horrid. Teeg does sound like he will hedge that match though, at least before sideboarding. I'm not sure if that is enough, but I will test it out if I have time.

[ForlornEgoist]

Friends, Romans, countrymen: LEND ME YOUR EARS! So I haven't personally played Enchantress much in the past couple years due in part to my obligations in work and school but I managed to convince a friend to go to SCG: Minneapolis and as he wanted to borrow an easy deck to play I figure I'd loan him my Enchantress. Much of this list as been inferred from what I've read or what cards I had readily available that aren't being used for other decks so I made some compromises. I'll try to convince my friend to take notes so he can log onto my account later and give a report:


x1 Dryad Arbor
x6 Forest
x3 Plains
x2 Wooded Foothills
x2 Arid Mesa
x2 Windswept Heath
x2 Serra's Sanctum
x1 Taiga
x1 Plateau

x4 Utopia's Sprawl
x4 Wild Growth
x4 Elephant Grass
x2 Mirri's Guile
x2 Enlightened Tutor
x2 Green Sun's Zenith
x4 Argothian Enchantress
x4 Enchantress's Presence
x2 Rest in Peace
x1 Helm of Obedience
x1 Blood Moon
x3 Solitary Confinement
x2 Oblivion Ring
x2 Choke
x1 Replenish
x1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
x1 Sigil of the Empty Throne

Pretty straight forward build. The difficulty came with the sideboard. I honestly had no idea what to run so I just came up with a generic SB:


x1 Replenish
x1 Vexing Shusher
x1 Harmonic Sliver - or Gaddock Teeg
x1 Karmic Justice
x2 City of Solitude
x1 Rest in Peace
x1 Humilty
x1 Nevermore
x2 Stony Silence
x4 Leyline of Sanctity

I unfortunately don't have any Suppression Field on me so I'm going to try and trade for some tomorrow. Well, I would like to talk more but I must get up in 7 hours. May all your top decks be fortuitous!

Forlorn

[The_Dingo]

Does everyone feel like enchantress gets better or worse. With the heavy influx of fair decks running TC?

I actually feel like enchantress is better positioned now than before TC. Outside of BGx, most fair decks have very little in the way of meaningful interaction with our board, so a draw three is unlikely to find them much help especially preboard. The situations where TC matters are if we have not resolved an enchantress yet (we are probably losing in this case) and they resolve a cruise and fill up on permission.

Just my opinion, but TC won't be cast till after it matters in the majority of MUs.

[Watersaw]

4 wins, 4 losses, 2 no-shows at Eternal Weekend. Only changed a few things since last time, but here it is anyway:

Mainboard
4 Argothian Enchantress
1 Eidolon of Blossoms was jamming the second for a bit, felt a little unnecessary
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

4 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Banefire Threw it in on a whim, was never disappointed to draw it

1 Exploration THIS CARD THO
3 Elephant Grass delver go home
3 Mirri's Guile
4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Wild Growth
3 Rest in Peace Treasure Cruise etc. etc.
3 Suppression Field Felt a little unnecessary, actually. Will be cutting to 2
2 Solitary Confinement
4 Enchantress's Presence

1 Helm of Obedience

1 Dryad Arbor
1 Karakas
1 Taiga get dat Banefire
2 Plains
4 Windswept Heath
4 Serra's Sanctum
8 Forest

Sideboard
1 Elephant Grass seriously, no delver/pyro/swiftspear allowerd
3 Swords to Plowshares
3 Stony Silence I had doubted this card for so long. No more.
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Banishing Light
1 Humility
4 Leyline of Sanctity

2-1 vs. Burn
0-2 vs. Death & Taxes
1-2 vs. T.E.S
1-2 vs. Reanimator
2-1 vs. Merfolk
2-1 vs. R/U Delver the loss was for showing up late
1-2 vs. Merfolk
2-0 vs. [no show]
2-0 vs. [no show]
2-0 vs. G/B Depths

Exploration is just awesome all around. It ramps you early on and speeds up your clock in the late game. I only won 2 games with Banefire, but the fact that it's a win-con that doesn't suck on every turn we can't kill them is huge. Kinda sad I only played Delver once. There were 3 other Enchantress players there and one of them had beaten it 4 times by round 9. He was running 3 Sterling Grove and a pair of Enlightened Tutor and said it was a really good matchup. Death & Taxes is a lot harder than I remember. Turns out they run Spirit of the Labyrinth in the main now, be careful out there. T.E.S. is actually winnable between all the hate we can pack. I'm sure I would have made it if I didn't have to mull down to 4 non-land cards and a Leyline of Sanctity, but hey, stuff happens. Reanimator is ridiculous, as usual. I randomly won game one through an Iona, shield of Emeria by nat-drawing into Helm of Obedience.

[JankMaster]

Crushing delver decks is a very good place to be!

[simdude]

So I also was playing at Eternal Weekend in the main event and wanted to write down as many of my thoughts as possible.

UR Delver (0-2)
Fizzled in game 1 after establishing what should normally be the solid lock with 2 enchantresses, solitary and a few relevant cards in hand. Game two just wasn't as close because he had more counter magic and I had less gas. I don't remember how I was sideboarding in these early matchups as clearly but I'll hit on my big mistake in the next round with it.

UR Delver (1-2)
I think I lose game 1 to a hand full of burn by time I stick an enchantress. But for games 2/3 I sideboarded incorrectly. I was trying to get greedy by playing both RIP to stop Cruise and Replenish to fight against countermagic. This was way too much greed. Game 2 I take in a standard way but game 3 he's got enough to kill me in just a few turns of paying through elephant grass. I don't have to worry about burn since I've got a Leyline out but I fail to find any enchantments in ~4 draw steps so I eventually lose. This round was also marked with major misplay by me. Failed to play around Daze game 3 and missed paying for an elephant grass by mistake.

Esper Deathblade (2-0)
Nothing super exciting to say about these games. Game 1 he has me dead on board but I manage to tutor up the Helm and kill him. Game 2 I side in Blood Moon and drop it turn 3 which locks him out while I take forever to eventually draw Emrakul.

Sneak and Show (2-1)
Game 1 is a blowout for him. I greatly misread the situation because for maybe the first 3 turns I thought he was on Miracles. Game 2 I somehow manage to stick humility and slowly grind the game through until a concession on Sigil. Game 3 he plays Show and Tell on his turn 2. He cheats in Griselbrand but I put in Emrakul which gives me the round.

Miracles (2-0)
Again nothing special with this matchup. Game 1 is long but get there on the back of Sigil. Game 2 I side out RIP/Helm to bring in the Replenish package. He plays an early meddling mage naming Sigil so I'm down to just Emrakul as a wincon unless I use my O-ring on the mage. He makes two angels off an entreat and starts the beatdown plan. I drop the emergency solitary confinement and through some very lucky draws manage in combination with sterling grove to get the engine online.

Elves (1-2)
Such a rough matchup but I take game 1 because he is slow to put things together. I got the scoop that the field was mostly UR Delver, Miracles, and Elves on the way over to the convention center so I make a last second decision to try Blind Obedience thinking about this matchup. Well after dying with it on board both games 2 and 3 I can't say I was too impressed. I'll probably be looking for another piece of tech or just concede this matchup is too unwinnable and shore up elsewhere. Luckily I've got another GPT this weekend to test out some sort of tech. I'd be happy to hear suggestions.

UR Delver (2-1)
At this point I'm long dead in the tournament so my opponent doesn't know Enchantress or how to play against it as effectively. I think that the important thing is to just treat the matchup like it's the burn matchup (siding in Leylines, CoP:red, ect).

Reanimator (1-2)
This was a really straightforward set of games. Game 1 he reanimates Griselbrand before I can do anything meaningful. Game 2 I hit Grafdigger's cage followed up by RIP. Hillariously I'm getting a bit mana screwed so he's just dropping lands and lotus petals when I notice he's up to 7 mana so I'm forced to O-ring a lotus petal but the O-ring starts me into being able to properly execute the engine. Game 3 I get zero playable hands and just decide to just keep mulliganing down to 4. He again reanimates Griselbrand on turn 2 and I'm ridiculously far out of the game. Decide that I'm done for the day after this because it's getting late and I'm way too hungry.

As a last note since the Commander decks were spoiled today I have to say that I'm really feeling like trying to jam multiple copies of Containment Priest. It stops Natural Order into Hoof from Elves, Show and Tell, and Reanimator which are all terrible matchups. I'm only sad I probably won't get a chance to test it in paper before the GP.

[The_Dingo]

As a last note since the Commander decks were spoiled today I have to say that I'm really feeling like trying to jam multiple copies of Containment Priest. It stops Natural Order into Hoof from Elves, Show and Tell, and Reanimator which are all terrible matchups. I'm only sad I probably won't get a chance to test it in paper before the GP.

I hadn't seen this card yet but it seems like a sweet piece of SB tech especially against reanimator, which is a shitty MU, and sneak and show, but I'd rather have cage against elves. If elves NO for craterhoof they still get the +x/+x and trample ETB trigger, which is likely to be gg.

Nevermind, I'm an idiot. I should learn how to read.

[ethebubbeth]

I'm just gonna leave this here...

http://i.imgur.com/GcpLT5U.png

[B is for Big Job]

I'm just gonna leave this here...

http://i.imgur.com/GcpLT5U.png

Is this better than Oblivion Ring or Banishing Light?? Yes it can remove a land and might be a touch easier to cast but it still gives them a "land", even if it just a forest. It might a bit of a nobo with Bloodmoon giving them a basic to potentially cast removal if they're on green at all.

[Scott]

An interesting list (http://tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=15057&iddeck=111631) got 8th in an SCG IQ two weeks ago. 4 Kruphix's Insight and 2 Blood Moon main deck in there.

[Watersaw]

An interesting list (http://tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=15057&iddeck=111631) got 8th in an SCG IQ two weeks ago. 4 Kruphix's Insight and 2 Blood Moon main deck in there.

I really like Kruphix's Insight alongside Enlightened Tutor. Seems like a neat plan instead of the full 4 Green Sun's Zenith. Of course, this means you have to run Sigil of the Empty Throne or Words of War.

EDIT: If the meta swings to be more Treasure Cruise vs. the world we may want to take a serious look at a list like this, since everyone will be packing some sort of draw hate.

[Rakadis]

Participated in my local stores Legacy tournament today. Around 15 players I think, so there was 4 matches and then top 4 . Went 1-3 with this list:

Mainboard
4 Argothian Enchantress
1 Eidolon of Blossoms - A real champ for me, might add a second.
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

3 Green Sun's Zenith

4 Elephant Grass
3 Mirri's Guile All-star, made so many shitty hands work.
4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Wild Growth
3 Rest in Peace
2 Suppression Field
3 Solitary Confinement
4 Enchantress's Presence
2 Helm of Obedience
1 Banishing Light - Meddling Mage is still a thing.
1 Oblivion Ring - Meddling Mage is still a thing.

1 Plains
4 Windswept Heath
2 Serra's Sanctum
11 Forest
2 Savannah

Sideboard
3 Swords to Plowshares Helped a LOT.
2 Stony Silence
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Melria, Sylvok Outcast So glad this was included!
1 Sigil of the Empty Throne Nice to board in when you see people going after your win conditions.
2 Sterling Grove
4 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Blind Obedience



2 - 0 Grixis Delver. He had Cranial Extraction and Cabal Therapy. Very slow and grindy game. He took all my argothians and helms. Helmed him game one and Sigiled him the next.

1 - 2 U/G Infect. Got him easy game one. He grinds me out with damage in game two when I get Melria in play. Game three he gets the nut draw and deals me 28 on turn 2/3.

0 - 2 Affinity. I never find Elephant Grass, Stony Silence or Confinement any of the games.

1 - 2 White Kithkin/Soldier Weenie/Prison/Control. Really weird deck, he plays a bunch of dudes ( like Preeminent Captain ) then plays chalice of the void for 1 and casts Armageddon. So I just sit there, twiddling my thumbs and waiting for something to kill the chalice with until he beats me to death.

So Chalice of the Void is a thing. How do you guys deal with it? And have you seen it around a lot? Any other tips on my list/sideboard is appreciated.

- Simon

[The_Dingo]

So Chalice of the Void is a thing. How do you guys deal with it? And have you seen it around a lot? Any other tips on my list/sideboard is appreciated.
- Simon

I used to play against chalice quite a bit, and it's similar to playing against a counterbalance top lock. It is an annoyance but there are ways around it. If you have an enchantress on the board, you can play your 1 drop enchantments into a chalice to draw cards if you need. Sometimes you can afford to ignore it and try to go over the top of it and combo out or try and establish a confinement lock, which is usually gg. O ring and banishing light are solid answers of course, and reclamation sage is a good zenith target in the SB for games 2 and 3.

I played several test games against infect yesterday. It feels like an awful MU especially on the draw. Do you remember how you boarded?

[Rakadis]

I used to play against chalice quite a bit, and it's similar to playing against a counterbalance top lock. It is an annoyance but there are ways around it. If you have an enchantress on the board, you can play your 1 drop enchantments into a chalice to draw cards if you need. Sometimes you can afford to ignore it and try to go over the top of it and combo out or try and establish a confinement lock, which is usually gg. O ring and banishing light are solid answers of course, and reclamation sage is a good zenith target in the SB for games 2 and 3.

I played several test games against infect yesterday. It feels like an awful MU especially on the draw. Do you remember how you boarded?

--

I boarded in Blind Obedience, Melria and Swords to Plowshares. Melria forced him to go to a beatdown plan and the swords slowed him down. But he was still to fast for me, and the nut draw in the last game was something to laugh at :)

--

I derped quite hard on the Chalice. Forgot that the Oracle text is " Whenever you cast " and not "successfully" as it is printed.

--

EDIT: Wrote in the quote field for some reason :P

[Watersaw]

So Chalice of the Void is a thing. How do you guys deal with it? And have you seen it around a lot? Any other tips on my list/sideboard is appreciated.


Pretty much what Dingo said. Double up on Enchantresses and brute force it.


Is this better than Oblivion Ring or Banishing Light?? Yes it can remove a land and might be a touch easier to cast but it still gives them a "land", even if it just a forest. It might a bit of a nobo with Bloodmoon giving them a basic to potentially cast removal if they're on green at all.

Doubt it. I can't think of any lands that stick around and are a problem besides Rishaden Port, so I'm pretty sure ramping them when we hit anything else isn't worth it.

[The_Dingo]

I'm thinking that Island Sanctuary might be a very good card right now. Does anyone have any recent experience with the card, either MD or SB?

[forestfold]

Is this better than Oblivion Ring or Banishing Light?? Yes it can remove a land and might be a touch easier to cast but it still gives them a "land", even if it just a forest. It might a bit of a nobo with Bloodmoon giving them a basic to potentially cast removal if they're on green at all.

Don't quote me as the absolute truth on this, but I believe if you use this enchantment on a permanent, and then cast Bloodmoon, it becomes a mountain. We will have to wait for the errata, but usually effects like this don't change super-types, so if you use it on any permanent besides a basic land, it will be a non-basic forest and would be modified by Bloodmoon. We'll see.


I'm thinking that Island Sanctuary might be a very good card right now. Does anyone have any recent experience with the card, either MD or SB?
I played with it a lot back in the day, but not in the past 3 to 4 years. It seems okay if you either play Library and get it down first, or have an Enchantress down and can then play it, but is that fast enough for the match ups you want it in?


At this point, it seems like people are really stretching the deck away from the engine to bend to the meta. I do love the deck, and nothing is quite as fun as drawing my whole deck and killing my opponent with 10 WoW triggers, a ton of Angel tokens, or a Emrakul wallop(or two), but I just put it on the shelf for a bit. I think as magic wanders back towards "fair" decks to combat delver and treasure cruise, Enchantress G/w tight with RIP main will have its' moment to shine. I am not sure that will be New Jersey, but it would be nice if I do audible the night before and 9-0 with our favorite permanents. The testing I've done lately though suggests to me that all power, screw the graveyards is the way to go. I've been playing a weird Bant version over the last year when I actually do sit down with the deck, which is odd but effective against the local meta. I was only playing Sigil as a kill condition, taking my time to kill people as I needed, but there isn't really any fast combo here except for Elves, which is horrible either way. I will try to remember to post the list tomorrow (i'm in a 24 hour coffee shop atm because we have no power at my house, and my wife is working on a college assignment... good times).

Cheers

[Sammo]

Being i'm new to the forums and this is my first post I would like to introduce myself. Many call me Sammo. I’ve been an Enchantress player for many years. Basically from when it was type 2 legal and slinging Rancors on Auratogs to legacy. I had a red splash for Words of War and Blood Moon but recently tried something new (for me at least). Instead of splashing for red I decided to try out blue. Overall I liked the way the deck worked. On the games where I didn’t mulligan to 5 (due to mana issues) the deck performed well. With GP NJ coming up I’ll be playing Enchantress of some variant.
I have not tried Mirri’s Guile recently. I tried it a few years ago and was not a fan. Is it really that good now? Anyways here is what I ran… Thanks in advance.

Main Deck
4 Utopia Sprawl
3 Wild Growth
3 Solitary Confinement
3 Elephant Grass
1 Moat
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Detention Sphere
4 Sterling Grove
1 Runed Halo
3 Rest In Peace
1 Energy Field
1 Helm of Obedience
1 Sigil of the Empty Throne
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Humility
4 Argothian Enchantress
4 Enchantress Presence
1 Words of Wind
2 Enlightened Tutor

5 Forest
3 Plains
2 Savannah
1 Tropical Island
1 Karakas
2 Serra's Sanctum
4 Windswept Heath
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Tundra

Sideboard

1 Stony Silence
4 Leyline of Sanctity
1 City of Solitude
1 Rule of Law
3 Carpet of Flowers
1 [cards]Blind Obedience
1 Humility
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Seal of Primordium
1 Rest in Peace


After playing in a GPT yesterday i learned a couple of things. One, i love Energy field, Rest in peace is kind of necessary main deck now, carpet of flowers did some work and Words of Wind was not impressive.

[GoldenCid]

I had the same impression than you about wow. I cut it out. I think it works better in the combo version.
How did you feel about moat and blind obedience?

Enviado desde mi XT890 mediante Tapatalk

[Sammo]

I had the same impression than you about wow. I cut it out. I think it works better in the combo version.
How did you feel about moat and blind obedience?

Enviado desde mi XT890 mediante Tapatalk


Moat is usually fantastic. There are some decks that simply just can't beat it Game 1. Blind Obedience is usually just an annoyance for the decks i bring it in against (although it did win me a sudden death game once!). Usually I bring it in against Sneak & Show and Storm (depending on the build...forcing lotus petals, chrome mox, etc to come into play tapped can slow them down a turn)

[Freggle]

I have been meaning to post here for quite some time, but find I don't have the time I used to. This thread has been turning a lot lately, and that is good to see. I don't have time to address all the things I'm reading, but I wanted to say something about constellation that should be explored. I thought about this on a recent flight

If you have a constellation card and an O-ring effect [Oblivion Ring, Detention Sphere, Song of the Dryads [not Banishing Light]] on the battlefield, and you cast a second o-ring effect you can trigger constellation indefinably. This can be done by o-ringing the first o-ring and to return your previous o-ring to remove... Each triggers a new constellation effect. I'm not certain, but this may also happen at instant speed, and you my be able to hold priority.

Since O-rings are powerful in general this may be a future way to win with Enchantress over the current staples of Helm / Emrakul.

It should be noted that if all 3 combo cards are in your graveyard and you Replenish ( or a combination of the battlefield and graveyard) you win as it will work on the spot. Forgeborn Oreads seems like the best out of the kills, but not easy to cast.

Different Topic

Kruphix's Insight is a powerful card. It just doesn't play 100% well with Rest in Peace. Therefore, I think a Kruphix's Insight, Replenish, Forgeborn Oreads, Oblivion Ring, Song of the Dryads... build should be explored. ...and Maaaabye Commune with the Gods. It may not be better, but should be explored.

[Kulta]

Not a bad idea, using an O-ring loop, but instread of Forgeborn Oreads I would probably consider Grimm Guardian, only one pip of off color mana and doesn't target

[Freggle]

Not a bad idea, using an O-ring loop, but instread of Forgeborn Oreads I would probably consider Grimm Guardian, only one pip of off color mana and doesn't target

Yes. Way better thank you. I was just going off of memory.

[bwood]

I'm a little fuzzy on how the O-Ring loop would work. Wouldn't it require 3 O-Rings? That seems pretty unlikely that you could get combo going.

[simdude]

I think it would require 3 O-rings. The one upside is that you could do it with any combination of O-Ring, Banishing Light and up to 1 detention sphere.

Would be cool to try but seems very mana intensive outside of doing it through replenish.

[Freggle]

I think it would require 3 O-rings. The one upside is that you could do it with any combination of O-Ring, Banishing Light and up to 1 detention sphere.

Would be cool to try but seems very mana intensive outside of doing it through replenish.

I suppose it does take 3 doesn't it. :-/

It still may be viable since Oring effects are good in just about all MUs outside of combo.

The cards that would do it that are viable are any number of Orings, 1 Detention Sphere, any number of the new Song of the Dryad ...if I'm not mistaken. Banishing Light will not work since it cannot target your own stuff.

[JankMaster]

Anyone have some sweet sideboard tech for elves? It seems like now that they have reclamation sage you can never truly protect yourself as they can just keep bouncing and replaying sage!

[Tr11pod]

I suppose you could try sideboarding a Nevermore. Gives some utility in other matchups as well. A Karmic Justice is another option, as you get to blow up something of theirs as well.

[Sammo]

Anyone have some sweet sideboard tech for elves? It seems like now that they have reclamation sage you can never truly protect yourself as they can just keep bouncing and replaying sage!

If you have one, Moat + Double Sterling Grove does wonders against Elves, if not, Engineered Plague is good (obviously depending on what kind of build you are playing). What colors are you playing?

[JankMaster]

I'm just playing the straight gw version right now

[JankMaster]

I'm essentially playing freggles list

[The_Dingo]

Anyone have some sweet sideboard tech for elves? It seems like now that they have reclamation sage you can never truly protect yourself as they can just keep bouncing and replaying sage!

I've been thinking magus of the moat would be sweet anti-elves tech, since it dodges abrupt decay and reclamation sage.

[JankMaster]

Might have to try that they would essentially auto lose to the card

[Hisa]

So I've been debating writing this post for a few weeks, since I'm on a way different page than most of the people posting in this thread. I think that this deck is well positioned for GPNJ, since it absolutely crushes UR delver and BG decay / charm decks are on the outs, so I figure I'll share what I've got.

A little about my perspective. This deck is my baby. I got back into magic around Shards and went pretty much straight to 1.5, since those cards are where I am the most comfortable. I did some puttering around and decided that drawing cards and playing by myself is where I wanted to be. The deck has been good to me -- it won me a Moat (which I turned down a set of undergrounds for as they were about the same money and I played a deck with Moat. RIP.) I don't think this deck is tier 1, unfortunately, but I think it has a great matchup against fair decks (that aren't Shardless BUG) and TES, an ok match against Sneak and Show and terrible matches against Omni Show and Oops. I put it together on MTGO a few weeks ago, and have been running hot recently. I've won 16 of my last 20 matches (heads up queue exclusively) against mostly UR delver, Miracles and Elves. Some of that is luck, but a lot is matchup and card choices -- my configuration is made with a heavy elves / miracles metagame in mind.

The list:

Lands (20)
6 Forest
3 Plains
3 Savannah
3 Windswept Heath
2 Horizon Canopy
2 Serra's Sanctum
1 Taiga

Creatures (4)
4 Argothian Enchantress

Spells (32)
4 Elephant Grass
4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Wild Growth
3 Mirri's Guile
4 Sterling Grove
2 Rest In Peace
1 Blind Obedience
4 Enchantress's Presence
4 Solitary Confinement
1 Nevermore
1 Words of War
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Kharmic Justice
1 Moat
1 Helm of Obedience


Side Board:
4 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Choke
2 Replenish
2 Vexing Shusher
1 Suppression Field
1 Aura of Silence
1 Blood Moon
1 City of Solitude
1 Sigil of the Empty Throne

NOTES:
The list is a little skewed. The online meta is a lot of "cheap" decks -- which means Miracles and Elves. Wasteland is very expensive and Wasteland decks are on the decline so you don't see very many of them (Karmic Justice is left over from my paper list and should at least be moved to the sideboard). I'm happy to provide boarding notes, if people want them, though I mess with the configuration fairly often.. I have never really tested the GSZ lists. I can't bring myself to run GSZ without Dryad Arbor and turning on peoples removal is the opposite of what I want to be doing. Emrakul isn't in this list because that card is terrible in this deck and I'll tell you why: Emrakul only wins you the games you were already going to win. If you can tap (or chain) your Sanctum for enough mana to cast Emrakul then it doesn't matter what card you cast to win the game, it was inevitable. If you're not absolutely going to win the game then Emrakul does nothing. On the other hand all of the Enchantment based win conditions will at least draw you a card -- they're enchantments and you don't have to have 15 permanents on the board to cast them. Emrakul is a huge trap and it has almost nothing to commend it.

When the meta is right this deck unstoppable, and the ease of the UR matchup (along with the ability to make a board that is very good against Miracles) make me think that GPNJ might be one of those times.

Hope y'all can take something from my list and my notes, whether you like the whole or not.

Cheers!

[forestfold]

... has anyone thought about playing Jeskai Ascendancy? It is kind of like a two and a half color splash, but it would make fizzling from Solitary almost impossible. Our deck is basically all non-creature spells, so we could loot away bullets that aren't needed if we don't need the card draw, not to mention lands we can't play. And it also could easily make a single Argothian lethal (if you have two out, it would be impossible not to hit for lethal) if your opponent has no blockers. Words of Wind to bounce their blockers even? Something like this :

2 Savannah
2 Tropical Island
2 Tiaga
3 Serra's Sanctum
3 Windswept Heath
4 Forest
2 Plains
1 Island
1 Mountain

4 Argothian Enchantress
4 Enchantresses' Presence
4 Wild Growth
4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Elephant Grass
4 Sterling Grove
3 Solitary Confinement
3 Jeskai Ascendancy
1 Moat / Sphere of Safety
1 Rest In Peace
1 Nevermore
1 Oblivion Ring
1 City of Solitude
1 Blind Obedience
1 Concordant Crossroads
1 Words of Wind
1 Sigil of the Empty Throne

1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn


Sounds crazy, haven't put it to the test, might have had a drink or two. But...?

[strom]

@Hisa: Emrakul is a solid win condition in this type of deck because its uncounterable, insurmountable and basically wins on the spot when hardcasted. There is no other card that is capable of doing this. Therefore I dont see him as a winmore-card. Its actually not THAT hard to chain Sanctum and your enchanted forests into 15 mana.
For being effective, Words of War requires pretty much the same setup. You need enough mana and enough Enchantresses in play to make the card count.

Regarding your list, I would like to hear your reasoning for running Nevermore maindeck and your experiences with 4 MD Groves and no GSZ.
I dont like running GSZ in Enchantress too, but its a necessary evil to ensure slamming at least one of your Enchantress-Effects on turn 2/3.

[Hisa]

@Hisa: Emrakul is a solid win condition in this type of deck because its uncounterable, insurmountable and basically wins on the spot when hardcasted. There is no other card that is capable of doing this. Therefore I dont see him as a winmore-card. Its actually not THAT hard to chain Sanctum and your enchanted forests into 15 mana.
For being effective, Words of War requires pretty much the same setup. You need enough mana and enough Enchantresses in play to make the card count.

Regarding your list, I would like to hear your reasoning for running Nevermore maindeck and your experiences with 4 MD Groves and no GSZ.
I dont like running GSZ in Enchantress too, but its a necessary evil to ensure slamming at least one of your Enchantress-Effects on turn 2/3.

My point was not that Emrakul doesn't win you the game. It was that when you're not trying to win the game it doesn't do anything. Words of War can be cast to cantrip / trigger Blind Obedience / pick off a DRS / whatever, while Emrakul sits in your hand and rots. RE: Uncounterability -- I've been playing this deck a long time and I can count on one hand the number of times I've lost because all my win conditions got countered. Play Smart and you can almost always get one to resolve. Especially with Replenish / Choke / City of Solitude / ETC in the board.

Nevermore maindeck was a (over)reaction to Council's Judgement. I wanted to be able to establish a hard lock vs the white decks. What I found, however, is that it has a large amount of utility. It often draws counterspells. When it resolves it buys tons of time, even against some fair decks. I've been really happy with it in the Miracles / Elves environment.

RE: Sterling Grove -- I've been incredibly happy with the card. Grove has tons of synergy, and while it is definitely a turn or turn and a half slower than GSZ for getting and Enchantress out, the additional utility often makes up for it. It's not only Enchantress 9-12, it's Solitary Confinement 5-8, Blind Obedience 2-5, O Ring 2-5 etc. The Shroud is great vs Reclamation Sage and Wear / Tear and Abrupt Decay, SG plays very well with Replenish... I could go on. When you combine all of this with my desire to have an Enchantress's Presence over an Argothian Enchantress in the Terminus and Golgari Charm matchups it feels like a no-brainer. I also usually have Humility in list, so Argothian Enchantress gets worse.

[Sammo]

@Hisa: Emrakul is a solid win condition in this type of deck because its uncounterable, insurmountable and basically wins on the spot when hardcasted. There is no other card that is capable of doing this. Therefore I dont see him as a winmore-card. Its actually not THAT hard to chain Sanctum and your enchanted forests into 15 mana.
For being effective, Words of War requires pretty much the same setup. You need enough mana and enough Enchantresses in play to make the card count.

Regarding your list, I would like to hear your reasoning for running Nevermore maindeck and your experiences with 4 MD Groves and no GSZ.
I dont like running GSZ in Enchantress too, but its a necessary evil to ensure slamming at least one of your Enchantress-Effects on turn 2/3.

You really feel GSZ is necessary? I don't like it either and have not been running it. How many would you play? I do agree with you on Emrakul... it just wins when you cast it...especially if you have a karakas and can just go infinite.

[honz]

... has anyone thought about playing Jeskai Ascendancy?

As it is essentially a worse version of enchantress presence (since you have to discard), and forces you to go 4 colors in a deck that really needs basics to attach utopia sprawl/wild growth to, I wouldn't play it. If you need more enchantress effects, run more gsz or enlightened tutors or sterling groves.

If you want to run it anyway, I would get away for RIP in favor of replenish. Sigil of the empty throne and opalescence also become a lot better.



I've been playing this deck a long time and I can count on one hand the number of times I've lost because all my win conditions got countered. Play Smart and you can almost always get one to resolve. Especially with Replenish / Choke / City of Solitude / ETC in the board.

Fortunately, most people are not smart enough to just hold their counters for your win-cons, so it rarely comes up. However, hoping your opponent misplays is hardly a solid gameplan. Your list loses game 1 if your opponent has 2 counterspells (1 for helm, 1 for words). This isn't exactly where you want to be when the majority of the format runs 4x force of will. It isn't like you will have the singleton emrak in your hand every game. Emrakul also isnt as uncastable as it may appear, with a sanctum or 2 and some wild growth effects, you can get there.



If you have a constellation card and an O-ring effect....etc

This is actually a really cool thought. With running sterling grove/e-tutor, getting to 3 o-ring effects isnt that farfetched. Unfortunately, it would usually be sufficient to just have 2-3 enchantress effects instead of an infinite circle jerk of 3 o-rings and a constellation card. Maybe if they ever print a playable constellation card...we can always hope

[Watersaw]

You really feel GSZ is necessary? I don't like it either and have not been running it. How many would you play? I do agree with you on Emrakul... it just wins when you cast it...especially if you have a karakas and can just go infinite.

You can probably do without Green Sun's Zenith, but the cards is actually very strong in my opinion. I feel like it does a lot more than just a 3 mana Argothian Enchantress.

Finds Dryad Arbor in an enchantress heavy draw
Pitch it to shuffle if Mirri's Guile shows nothing
Gets Eidolon of Blossoms if your hand is running low/Engineered Plague exists
Allows some sweet tech in the form of Gaddock Teeg and maybe Reclamation Sage

Granted Surgical Extraction sucks. So do Spirit of the Labyrinth and Containment Priest.

Speaking of Spirit of the Labyrinth, it turns out that if an action would replace a draw, you can do it as long as you are still able to draw cards that turn. Basically, as long as you have not actually drawn a card, you can trigger Words of Whatever as many times as you want. Once you do draw it becomes dead though. Thought this could be nifty if they ever double up on Spirit.


This is actually a really cool thought. With running sterling grove/e-tutor, getting to 3 o-ring effects isnt that farfetched. Unfortunately, it would usually be sufficient to just have 2-3 enchantress effects instead of an infinite circle jerk of 3 o-rings and a constellation card. Maybe if they ever print a playable constellation card...we can always hope
Splash black for Doomwake Giant. HAM time.

But yeah, 2 card combos are generally better than 4 card combos. Buuuut having each of those cards be relevant on every other turn is worth something.

I might actually try paying without Suppression Field for a bit, or move it to the board. I feel like the card is best on turn 2, but we usually want to just slam an Enchantress and go to town immediately. There have been a lot of games when I got it on turn 3 and it didn't actually do anything besides replace itself.

[Sammo]

Splash black for Doomwake Giant. HAM time.

Its funny you say that... couple friends and I were just talking about this a few days ago... I kind of want to test it out mainly bc that card just does wonders against Death and Taxes. Just not sure Black offers enough over Blue or Red splash.

[Watersaw]

Its funny you say that... couple friends and I were just talking about this a few days ago... I kind of want to test it out mainly bc that card just does wonders against Death and Taxes. Just not sure Black offers enough over Blue or Red splash.

Duress/Thoughtseize can be good, and Words of Waste can just blow people out immediately. You could run Dread of Night instead, but Doomwake lets you randomly win against Elves or Burn too. Assuming you live to 6 or so mana.

[forestfold]

As it is essentially a worse version of enchantress presence (since you have to discard), and forces you to go 4 colors in a deck that really needs basics to attach utopia sprawl/wild growth to, I wouldn't play it. If you need more enchantress effects, run more gsz or enlightened tutors or sterling groves.

If you want to run it anyway, I would get away for RIP in favor of replenish. Sigil of the empty throne and opalescence also become a lot better.
Replenish and Opalescence are a good idea for this build, surely. RIP is just second nature for me at this point, but probably not the best in this list. The point is not that it is an enabler, but a different kind of enabler. I would estimate about 1/4 of the time going off with 1 enchantress effect, I sputter under a confinement lock. With 2 enchantresses, it is probably more like 1/6th of the time, but the point still stands. This is an alternate win condition combined with an alternate draw engine. The important part is that it has two conditional triggers, and the draw and discard trigger is a may-ability. As long as you stack it first, you can draw your cards, and if you draw an unwanted enchantment/superfluous enchantress/a dead land you can just loot it away. You can also replace the draw if you have a boatload of cards in your hand, discard a card you would be discarding at the end of the turn anyway, and Words of X something.
I am not saying this card is the answer to all our problems, I am saying that it stretches the mana a bit, and might give us another big benefit. It still remains to be seen if it will work.
Personally, I almost never have mana problems with this deck though, and I already am running a three color list.

Which reminds me, for those of you that didn't want to look 30 threads back or so, here is that Bant list I had been working on :


2 Savannah
1 Tropical Island
2 Plains
6 Forest
1 Island
3 Windswept Heath
2 Misty Rainforest
1 Karakas
2 Serra's Sanctum

4 Argothian Enchantress
4 Enchantresses' Presence
4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Wild Growth
3 Elephant Grass
3 Rest in Peace
2 Energy Field
2 Sigil of the Empty Throne
1 Moat
1 Sphere of Safety
1 Words of Wind
2 Mirri's Guile
1 Stony Silence
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Wheel of Sun and Moon
4 Sterling Grove
1 City of Solitude
1 Helm of Obedience

SB :: ------------------------
4 Leyline of Sanctity
4 Mindbreak Trap
1 Elephant Grass
1 Mana Maze
1 Nevermore
1 Runed Sigil
1 Humility
1 City of Solitude
1 Cursed Totem

[btm10]

Its funny you say that... couple friends and I were just talking about this a few days ago... I kind of want to test it out mainly bc that card just does wonders against Death and Taxes. Just not sure Black offers enough over Blue or Red splash.

I've actually started to play around with GBw, though just a bit. The discard is nice, Doomwake Giant is hilarious (and easily castable on turn 4) and generally just wins once he's in play. I think I'm going to play around some more with the Constellation cards - they seem to work way better than I was expecting.

[Freggle]

Lots of love out there for Enchantress recently. This makes me happy.


This is actually a really cool thought. With running sterling grove/e-tutor, getting to 3 o-ring effects isnt that farfetched. Unfortunately, it would usually be sufficient to just have 2-3 enchantress effects instead of an infinite circle jerk of 3 o-rings and a constellation card. Maybe if they ever print a playable constellation card...we can always hope

It's not quite as good as I originally hoped. I put it together on MTGO last night and I got the "combo" but could not figure out how to execute it in the new client. It was actually pretty simple to assemble using Commune With The Gods ,Replenish,orings and D-spheres. ...I'm uncertain it's better than other version though. It should be noted that Opalescence, Parallax Wave is a 2 card combo that can blink Enchantments [Parallax Wave can target iteself to blink itself and reset the counters.] Parallax Wave can also target any combo piece and blink it in response to removal to "break" the combo. I may keep working on it on the side.

@ G/W Elves MU

Board in:

Gaddock
STP's
Orings

Board out:

Helm Package
& shave numbers

Gameplan: Keep the board clear of threats. Aggressively play Gaddock [cuts off GSZ & Natural Order] over Argothian, and make them play fair with Glimpse and attacking into E Grass and Confinement.

Suppression Field also slows a good deal of their non-mana ability mana tricks

If you want added insurance try moat or Sphere of Safety.

@ Emrakul

It's easy to hate on but it most certainly makes GW stronger. Why does it stay in peoples hands? Be cautious of when you cast RIP, and just discard it.

Emrakul is good at closing under the following conditions:

-There are too many hate permanants that you can't remove - You Infinately attack with Emrakul with Karakas. ( you can beat the most locked down traditional Enchantress player in this way)
-You can not resolve a Wincon - You will resolve him outside of Mindbreak (look out)
-You cannot target your opponent - you attack

Emrakul also gives this deck tons more game against mill strategies.

Is Emrakul absoulutely perfect for the deck, no as it is not an enchantment and does not cost 0 mana, however it is very, very good.

[strom]

Doomwake Giant discussion:
Thats an almost scarry coincidence, because i also stumbled over this card a few days ago, thinking it might have a place in the deck, while i was browsing magiccards.info for minus/minus effects.
I also spoted this card: Dead Weight - great tool for removing a wide range of relevant legacy critters.

GWb has definately some decent options and Dread of Night is still one of my favorite SB-cards for hating on DnT which is played heavily in my meta. Might give it a spin next time.

[Rakadis]

@Freggle Would you mind posting your most current "standard no shenanigans" list please?

[JankMaster]

I would also appreciate your list freggle as I have recently started playing enchantress online and in paper since the recent shift in the meta.

[Freggle]

@Freggle Would you mind posting your most current "standard no shenanigans" list please?

I would also appreciate your list freggle as I have recently started playing enchantress online and in paper since the recent shift in the meta.

No Problem.

Main Deck:

Creatures
4 Argothian Enchantress
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

Artifacts
1 Helm of Obedience

Sorceries
4 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Kruphix's Insight -- I'm not certain where I stand on this card in this list but lately I have been jamming it.

Enchantments
4 Enchantress's Presence
4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Wild Growth
3 Rest in Peace
3 Suppression Field
3 Solitary Confinement
3 Elephant Grass
3 Mirri's Guile
1 Banishing Light

Lands
4 Serra's Sanctum
4 Windswept Heath
1 Plains
1 Karakas
11 Forest

Sideboard:
4 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Swords to Plowshares
3 Stony Silence
2 Banishing Light
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Gaddock Teeg

General Notes on this Build:

This list was built to be the most tempo aggressive it could be. To do so I was looking for cards with immediate board impact, and were easy to cast. Large tournaments are won on card quality AND CONSISTENCY. This deck was built to be the most consistent I could possibly make it. Therefore, I challenged myself to keep it GW although I aimed for Gw. As I tested 3rd colors the deck became more vulnerable to various strategies, and draw variance and so I limited back to GW. There are off-color cards this deck would love to play to give this deck more game against other strategies, however adding them made the deck overall weaker as I observed with my personal testing.

Common Card Questions:

Sterling Grove - Sterling Grove was removed for Green Sun's Zenith because in most phases of the game Sterling Grove was used as a tutor for Enchantress effects & Green Sun's is a better tempo card for this purpose. The Enchantment shroud although powerful in some corner cases is not overall what the deck needed to push it over a hurdle in competitiveness. In most cases having the deck be more nimble, and be able to outcast 1 for 1 hate was far more powerful than shrouding stuff that was not usually targeted.

Sigil of the Empty Throne - Was in the list for a very long time and was ultimately cut for a few reasons.

Sigil is 5 mana and cannot be cast with Gaddock Teeg on the board. This is an issue since you also cannot cast Helm
Sigil is counterable. This is an issue becuase once the deck started getting a rep. online people would sit back and counter the 3 relevant spells.
This deck does not have a way to stop draws. Many games were lost becuase I could not tutor for Sigil and it was too far down in the deck to cast enough angles to win. ...and in my opinion it was not worth deluting the deck with tutors to make it work (although I tried)
Sigil is not a good tempo card. As crazy as it it to read this the 15 mana Emrakul is a better tempo card than the 5 mana Sigil. With Emrakul you almost never pass the turn after it's cast. With Sigil you pass the turn at least once if not more. Less turns gives your opponent less turns to react.


Emrakul, the Aeons Torn - This card (although I fought it's inclusion for almost a year) solved many issues with the deck. There was something to win with under a Teeg softlock. It was uncounterable. ...and it closed games in conditions where the deck couldn't win in the past.

There are too many hate permanants that you can't remove - You Infinately attack with Emrakul with Karakas. ( you can beat the most locked down traditional Enchantress player in this way)
You can not resolve a Wincon - You will resolve him outside of Mindbreak (look out)
You cannot target your opponent - you attack


Gixtaian Probe - Since this deck is all about tempo and advantage Probe seemed like a good card to thin the deck. It would likely still be in the list if it were not for Death and Taxes & Thalia / Spirit. Since those cards exist and are played regularly you can not count on drawing a free card and gaining free information so it was cut, and probably rightfully so.

Kruphix's Insight - This card is VERY powerful, but a risk in that it can dump both win conditions in the yard with no chance of return. I would run more as an advantage engine against strong board control games if that issue was solved. Be cautious as to when you cast your Rest in Peace so Emrakul shuffles and you may be okay.

Replenish - Replenish is a no go with RIP in my mind. I have tested lists with Replenish in the board, but it dilutes the main too much in the matches you would want to use it in. BGx comes to mind. I feel the deck is bester off forming a more synergiztic strat. against those lists. i.e. Kruphix's Insigt, O Ring effects, (Sphere of Safety ?)



General Boarding Strategies:
Tip: Never remove Banishing Light except maybe storm you never know what you will face.

...more to come as time permits.

[Redkid43]

Freggle,

would you every be apposed to cut one forest for a Dryad Arbor as another means of mana accel, and a way to trick a Liliana?

[Freggle]

Freggle,

would you every be apposed to cut one forest for a Dryad Arbor as another means of mana accel, and a way to trick a Liliana?

I would consider it, but I'm leery of this plan as it adds more inconsistency in the deck. Since Dryad Arbor is a non-basic and is subject to summoning sickness it's not a good tempo card.

It is true you can Green Sun's it out for excel, but consider this. You don't want it in your opening hand. You don't want to enchant it. There is literally no other target (outside of Teeg) for any sort of spot removal to hit.

To me it appears to be more variance than good. However, I have to admit I never tested it.

[Redkid43]

A Doomwake Giant build could be a nice meta call, considering it can swing the Elves and Delver matchup almost instantly. Words of Waste is a nice option too.

I built this quickly with that in mind.

4 Argothian Enchantress
2 Doomwake Giant

1 Helm of Obedience

4 Wild Growth
4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Enchantress's Presence
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Elephant Grass
3 Sterling Grove
3 Rest in Peace
3 Mirri's Guile
3 Solitary Confinement
2 Words of Waste

4 Windswept Heath
4 Serra's Sanctum
1 Karakas
1 Plains
1 Bayou
9 Forest


This deck has a few win cons built right in:
-Words of Waste-ing them right out of a hand.
-Doomwaking them. It FEELS like Emrakul, but 5 mana is way less than 15 and either way, they still loose their board. Doomwake takes some work to get going though.
-Helm/RiP

This also opens up 2 spots in our sideboard for a control match up, where we can side out Doomwake and bring in, say, Ediolon and Emrakul proper. We could even leave in Words of Waste and bring in Teeg for even more of a beating. Strip their hand, Teeg them.

Not sure if there is any merit to this build, but it is certainly an option to explore IMO.

[Drdoomsday40]

I also believe that 2x Explorations are really essential to "going off" fast with enchantress by playing another forest that you need to be enchanted by utopia sprawls to playing a 2 or third serra's sanctum to play emrakul that turn. Also, I've found Nykthos, shrine to Nyx is also helpful getting a bunch of green mana, similar to serra's sanctum but since more than half the deck is green, is super helpful getting green low drops out. Compare it to having a serra's sanctum early, its pretty much colorless mana except for sigil of the empty throne or having to cast a leyline of sanctity or humility. I definitely like a one of Nykthos in my deck so far because serra's sanctum still does easy work early without having to pay 2 mana to use the ability. It's also helpful by having "2" serra's sanctum out without having to tap a serra's sanctum and playing another soon after, it can really smooth things out that way.

[Sammo]

Couple of things, If Argothian Enchantress is your only green creature i really don't think you need 4 Green Sun Zenith. I feel having anything less than 4 Sterling Grove is just wrong. Also how come you're not running Enlightened Tutor? Personally i'm not a fan of Words of Waste. That being said i have not tested it but in theory i don't see it being nearly as powerful as say Words of War. I could be wrong on that but i do not think you need to run 2. Typically we have been running 1 of the Words of X. If you are going to be running GSZ there is no reason not to run 1 Dryad Arbor

[Drdoomsday40]

Having more Green sun zenith is just so that we have a better chance at having one in an opening hand. I'm currently running 3 GSZ and 2 eidolon for the reason that GSZ does get bad eventually. Usually game 1, most people don't run enchantment destruction (except for BGx matchups), they usually bring it in post board and that is a better time to have it in then, but before you can have more redundancy by having more combo pieces. E tutor used to feel bad when they would simply counter whatever we searched for or use vendillion clique to just put it away :/ it's probably more viable now but it can be a fear for an enchantress person. It also essentially "wastes your draw" or turn by casting it because your waiting a whole nother turn/draw until you get it. That's also why sterling grove has been feeling a little bad is because it feels more like an Idyllic Tutor more than anything helpful :/

Wasteland and kill spells are a reason not to run Dryad Arbor but it can help to accel us forward. It can also be targeted in burns new decklist with Searing Blaze which would've usually been a dead card to them. Also, it does give us a bit of protection against innocent blood or diabolic edicts/lilianna.

[badkyot]

Not sure where to appropriately as a rules question, but I figured you guys would know..

Can the ACC of Reverent Silence be used if Sulfuric Vortex is in play? I'd imagine yes and I just wouldn't gain the life but MtG is never short on strange rules and interactions.

[Rakadis]

Gentlemen, I have recently considered completing my deck to current specifications. This is to add two Serra's Sanctum to get up to four and maybe investing in a Karakas

The two Serra's Sanctum look like they could warrant their price, but dropping 160USD on Karakas seems like a lot. How often do you rely on the Emrakul/Karakas lock to win? And are there enough legends out there for it to have its use?

My basic question is, is it worth it? And are there alternatives?

[The_Dingo]

Gentlemen, I have recently considered completing my deck to current specifications. This is to add two Serra's Sanctum to get up to four and maybe investing in a Karakas

The two Serra's Sanctum look like they could warrant their price, but dropping 160USD on Karakas seems like a lot. How often do you rely on the Emrakul/Karakas lock to win? And are there enough legends out there for it to have its use?

My basic question is, is it worth it? And are there alternatives?

There are times when Emrakul plus karakas is actually necessary in order to not let my opponent untap then kill me, but most of the time it is just overkill. Karakas is great in the Sneak and Show, reanimator and DnT MUs, but I haven't seen those decks much over the last ~6 months or so.

In terms of cost benefit, you can live without it. The only things I have bounced with it in the last 3 months or so have been V Cliques and my own Emrakul.

[The_Dingo]

I did some testing against UR delver last night. I thought at first it was a really good MU for us, but I'm starting to think that it's actually fairly close. Every game that I won involved a solitary confinement lock at some arbitrarily low life total.

I'm debating the merits of boarding in leyline of sanctity to prevent getting burned out, since that is how I lost the majority of games against UR delver. I like the idea of completely turning off the bolts, except the one eidolon of blossoms.

Also, UR delver is incredibly weak to energy field. It doesn't even require a RiP in some cases to shut them down temporarily in order to gain some breathing space.

[honz]

I did some testing against UR delver last night. I thought at first it was a really good MU for us, but I'm starting to think that it's actually fairly close. Every game that I won involved a solitary confinement lock at some arbitrarily low life total.

I'm debating the merits of boarding in leyline of sanctity to prevent getting burned out, since that is how I lost the majority of games against UR delver. I like the idea of completely turning off the bolts, except the one eidolon of blossoms.

Also, UR delver is incredibly weak to energy field. It doesn't even require a RiP in some cases to shut them down temporarily in order to gain some breathing space.

I think the blue splash is the most attractive version at the moment. With RiP being an amazing card at the moment, there is no problem maindecking 3-4 (and rarely boarding them out), and that makes energy field so damn good. A single courser of kruphix can help the UR delver MU a little too.


The two Serra's Sanctum look like they could warrant their price, but dropping 160USD on Karakas seems like a lot. How often do you rely on the Emrakul/Karakas lock to win? And are there enough legends out there for it to have its use?


Sanctum is for sure worth the price, but you only need 3 imo. The karakas/emrakul interaction pretty much never happens. The real reason to run karakas is to interact with thalia, reanimator, and sneak/show. With containment priest pushing reanimator and sneak/show out of the format, karakas is for sure not worth 160$. On a side note, containment priest is a great sideboard card for us.

[Bertrand Hustle]

I think the blue splash is the most attractive version at the moment. With RiP being an amazing card at the moment, there is no problem maindecking 3-4 (and rarely boarding them out), and that makes energy field so damn good. A single courser of kruphix can help the UR delver MU a little too.



Sanctum is for sure worth the price, but you only need 3 imo. The karakas/emrakul interaction pretty much never happens. The real reason to run karakas is to interact with thalia, reanimator, and sneak/show. With containment priest pushing reanimator and sneak/show out of the format, karakas is for sure not worth 160$. On a side note, containment priest is a great sideboard card for us.

I can confirm that 3 Sanctum is just fine. I run 3. You can opt for Crop Rotation if you really want but the card blows you out very easily.
Keep in mind that your investment with Karakas is safe for the forseeable future with the RL. You will probably want the card in the future and it's not going to get any cheaper, so now is always better than later with RL cards. It's a one of in this deck and you can always flip it later for more, especially if it's in reasonable condition.

[simdude]

I'm wondering how people sideboard in the BGx matchups, especially the Sultai ones. I always want to keep in RIP/Helm since RIP shuts off DRS and Goyf while setting up the win condition but Replenish also sounds good enough against the targeted destruction (Golgari charm, Sultai charm, Malestrom Pulse ect.), hand disruption, and counterspells. I feel like it's one of the toughest matchups I consistently run into paper that I never see online so my prep for it is just very sub-par.

[TrevaBlues]

New to the thread but wanted to keep the Enchantress talk going in light of the metagame going into GPNJ!
I'm playing close to Fraggle's GW List but deliberating over specific cards.
I'm going to post some thoughts on card decisions, especially quantities, based on the Treasure Cruise meta.

Cards we want to play:

Solitary Confinement - The format is faster and more aggressive with the prevalence of UR Delver and Burn, so I want 4 copies. We don't have time to dig for it, especially if Burn plants an Eidolon of the Great Revel.
Mirri's Guile should probably be a 3-of, supporting the need for multiple t1 plays and increasing our card selection.
Suppression Field - Stifle is on the downtick and with reprints, fetch lands are cheaper than ever! Let's make them expensive for the combo players :). We also still want protection against Liliana of the Veil and Deathrite Shaman.
Emrakul, the Aeons Torn - This can be a dead card in an opening hand unless playing versus Show and Tell, but it is one card that does what we want. We don't need multiple so we can keep our deck straightforward. I must stress the importance of how quickly it can win the game. Enchantress matches can go to time, especially if you run the more convoluted win conditions.
Carpet of Flowers - Blue is more popular than ever. The extra mana ramp allows us to play so easily over Daze and Spell Pierce. We want access to at least 3 out of the board.
Choke - Oh, you're a blue mage huh? You're a big fan of Jace? Tell me more since you won't be casting any more spells anyway.... Blue decks are going to counter our Dryads, but if we are threat dense, we can win those games anyway. One or two should do it.
Swords to Plowshares - I hadn't been playing this myself, but we really could use this to hedge our elves & d&T matchups. It's still useful against UR delver and reanimator. So we want 3 of these if we can board them in without diluting our engine. I like this to make sure Burn can't steal any games from us with Eidolon of the Great Revel.



Cards we don't want to play:

Stony Silence - I honestly don't understand the inclusion of this anymore. I would rather play up to 4 Suppression Field. Stony Silence is just so narrow these days and isn't as important to have access to. Reclamation Sage can solve the problems that Stony Silence would.
Sterling Grove - This card often does not do enough on its own and I'm supporting its exclusion. Abrupt Decay decks are on the decline. It can be super important to secure games versus elves and d&t where they would remove your protection effect, but we'll just lean on extra confinement cards.
Sigil of the Empty Throne - why play this when we can play a card that pretty much wins the game on the spot.



Cards in question:

Song of the Dryads - a few people brought this up a few pages back, but there was no real consensus. Are there lands we want to hit? Is this just for non-white (non-Oblivion Ring builds of enchantress? Is this just to satiate our Vorthos needs?
Confinement Priest - I like having a better matchup versus faster combo decks... but I don't like how it does nothing for our engine. For Elves, I'd rather have Moat or Humility effects, surviving the early turns with Elephant Grass and Swords to Plowshares. It's also too slow versus dredge.
Energy Field - On the back of 3 main deck Rest in Peace, I really want to play this, but don't want to hurt the consistency of the deck by adding blue. So I've opted for more Solitary Confinement and potentially a fourth Elephant Grass
Dryad Arbor is risky as every with the increase in Forked Bolt and Electrickery, but the speed of the format gives reason for another turn 1 play in the Green Sun's Zenith for 0. I really wouldn't count this as a land slot though. And you likely need to scale down to 3 Serra's Sanctum if you include it.
Root Maze I like this spice. If we're worried about artifacts, this can help fill the gap of the missing Stony Silence. We would likely end up boarding out Helm when we want this card.



I would love for anyone to reply with their thoughts and experiences on any of the specific cards.

[The_Dingo]

New to the thread but wanted to keep the Enchantress talk going in light of the metagame going into GPNJ!
I'm playing close to Fraggle's GW List but deliberating over specific cards.
I'm going to post some thoughts on card decisions, especially quantities, based on the Treasure Cruise meta.

Cards we want to play:

Solitary Confinement - The format is faster and more aggressive with the prevalence of UR Delver and Burn, so I want 4 copies. We don't have time to dig for it, especially if Burn plants an Eidolon of the Great Revel.
Mirri's Guile should probably be a 3-of, supporting the need for multiple t1 plays and increasing our card selection.
Suppression Field - Stifle is on the downtick and with reprints, fetch lands are cheaper than ever! Let's make them expensive for the combo players :). We also still want protection against Liliana of the Veil and Deathrite Shaman.
Emrakul, the Aeons Torn - This can be a dead card in an opening hand unless playing versus Show and Tell, but it is one card that does what we want. We don't need multiple so we can keep our deck straightforward. I must stress the importance of how quickly it can win the game. Enchantress matches can go to time, especially if you run the more convoluted win conditions.
Carpet of Flowers - Blue is more popular than ever. The extra mana ramp allows us to play so easily over Daze and Spell Pierce. We want access to at least 3 out of the board.
Choke - Oh, you're a blue mage huh? You're a big fan of Jace? Tell me more since you won't be casting any more spells anyway.... Blue decks are going to counter our Dryads, but if we are threat dense, we can win those games anyway. One or two should do it.
Swords to Plowshares - I hadn't been playing this myself, but we really could use this to hedge our elves & d&T matchups. It's still useful against UR delver and reanimator. So we want 3 of these if we can board them in without diluting our engine. I like this to make sure Burn can't steal any games from us with Eidolon of the Great Revel.



Cards we don't want to play:

Stony Silence - I honestly don't understand the inclusion of this anymore. I would rather play up to 4 Suppression Field. Stony Silence is just so narrow these days and isn't as important to have access to. Reclamation Sage can solve the problems that Stony Silence would.
Sterling Grove - This card often does not do enough on its own and I'm supporting its exclusion. Abrupt Decay decks are on the decline. It can be super important to secure games versus elves and d&t where they would remove your protection effect, but we'll just lean on extra confinement cards.
Sigil of the Empty Throne - why play this when we can play a card that pretty much wins the game on the spot.



Cards in question:

Song of the Dryads - a few people brought this up a few pages back, but there was no real consensus. Are there lands we want to hit? Is this just for non-white (non-Oblivion Ring builds of enchantress? Is this just to satiate our Vorthos needs?
Confinement Priest - I like having a better matchup versus faster combo decks... but I don't like how it does nothing for our engine. For Elves, I'd rather have Moat or Humility effects, surviving the early turns with Elephant Grass and Swords to Plowshares. It's also too slow versus dredge.
Energy Field - On the back of 3 main deck Rest in Peace, I really want to play this, but don't want to hurt the consistency of the deck by adding blue. So I've opted for more Solitary Confinement and potentially a fourth Elephant Grass
Dryad Arbor is risky as every with the increase in Forked Bolt and Electrickery, but the speed of the format gives reason for another turn 1 play in the Green Sun's Zenith for 0. I really wouldn't count this as a land slot though. And you likely need to scale down to 3 Serra's Sanctum if you include it.
Root Maze I like this spice. If we're worried about artifacts, this can help fill the gap of the missing Stony Silence. We would likely end up boarding out Helm when we want this card.



I would love for anyone to reply with their thoughts and experiences on any of the specific cards.

I agree that solitary is pretty near a hard lock these days with the most popular decks unable to address a resolved one pre board, and UR has no answer post board. I'm not sure I agree with your conclusion to increase the number to 4, but I could be convinced pretty easily.

If you are interested in reading it, Freggle addressed stony silence a few days ago over on salvation. I agree with your conclusion that it is a poor meta call for the time being.

I'm a big fan of choke, especially in conjunction with elephant grass and suppression field. Despite that, I don't think it's strictly necessary. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't want to pause a turn from developing my game plan in the early game to play a choke especially given the speed and reach of the delver decks (so many bolts). After a sufficiently hard lock has been established, choke really becomes unnecessary.

I've had some good experiences recently with sigil of the empty throne that make me disagree with the decision to cut it. I sometimes forget this, but it is also a lock piece AND a win condition.

I've been playing a singleton doomwake giant in the main. Not sure if it is win more, but it it really really sweet. Like, really super awesome sweet, and perhaps a little spicy as well. It's a flavor overload.

[TrevaBlues]

I'm a big fan of choke, especially in conjunction with elephant grass and suppression field. Despite that, I don't think it's strictly necessary. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't want to pause a turn from developing my game plan in the early game to play a choke especially given the speed and reach of the delver decks (so many bolts). After a sufficiently hard lock has been established, choke really becomes unnecessary.

Yeah I wouldn't say it's necessary. I just want at least one. Not so much for U/R delver, but for the slower blue decks, i.e. uw(r) stoneforge and miracles.


I've had some good experiences recently with sigil of the empty throne that make me disagree with the decision to cut it. I sometimes forget this, but it is also a lock piece AND a win condition.

That's reasonable, it just doesn't seem to often be a reasonable enough lock piece as blocking can be unreliable vs token swarms and TNN. And it gives them turns. But, I'd actually say this slot competes with Solitary Confinement #4, so it's up to you.


I've been playing a singleton doomwake giant in the main. Not sure if it is win more, but it it really really sweet. Like, really super awesome sweet, and perhaps a little spicy as well. It's a flavor overload.

I definitely wouldn't say it's wrong, he's pretty sweet. It's just not where I want to be. But he is easy enough to cast. And he can put away games against decks where they have a board and have live draws to solve your one solitary confinement, or can just kill their board when you don't have a protection enchantment.

[Freggle]

New to the thread but wanted to keep the Enchantress talk going in light of the metagame going into GPNJ!
I'm playing close to Fraggle's GW List but deliberating over specific cards.
I'm going to post some thoughts on card decisions, especially quantities, based on the Treasure Cruise meta.

Cards we want to play:

Solitary Confinement - The format is faster and more aggressive with the prevalence of UR Delver and Burn, so I want 4 copies. We don't have time to dig for it, especially if Burn plants an Eidolon of the Great Revel.
I'm always trying to jam a 4th back in, but I have difficulty finding the right slot. In the last list I posted I would cut the Kruphix's Insight to do this.


Mirri's Guile should probably be a 3-of, supporting the need for multiple t1 plays and increasing our card selection.

Agree


Suppression Field - Stifle is on the downtick and with reprints, fetch lands are cheaper than ever! Let's make them expensive for the combo players :). We also still want protection against Liliana of the Veil and Deathrite Shaman.

Agree


Emrakul, the Aeons Torn - This can be a dead card in an opening hand unless playing versus Show and Tell, but it is one card that does what we want. We don't need multiple so we can keep our deck straightforward. I must stress the importance of how quickly it can win the game. Enchantress matches can go to time, especially if you run the more convoluted win conditions.

Agree, and I tested quite a few cards because I did not want this to be true, but I honestly feel this is the best (alt) win con.


Carpet of Flowers - Blue is more popular than ever. The extra mana ramp allows us to play so easily over Daze and Spell Pierce. We want access to at least 3 out of the board.

I used to play 3 in the board, and it did add a different dimension to the deck, however in a strange way Swords to Plowshares is better. In most cases you could care less about control. That is unless they have a clock. Casting Swords to remove the clock (i.e. Delver in) is better than resolving Carpet to race to Confinement. That is just what I have personally found. Keep in mind UW deck will board in Meddeling Mage to keep you off of Emrakul, so his removal is crucial. Yes you can do that with O ring effects, but it's efficiency of slot that ultimately got Carpet cut from the board because when it came in it eventually just felt comfortable, but wasn't really needed.


Choke - Oh, you're a blue mage huh? You're a big fan of Jace? Tell me more since you won't be casting any more spells anyway.... Blue decks are going to counter our Dryads, but if we are threat dense, we can win those games anyway. One or two should do it.

Decent card, and fun with Suppression Field & Elephant Grass I'm just not sure it's the best use of card slot. It may be as i'm not totally up on the meta at the moment.


Swords to Plowshares - I hadn't been playing this myself, but we really could use this to hedge our elves & d&T matchups. It's still useful against UR delver and reanimator. So we want 3 of these if we can board them in without diluting our engine. I like this to make sure Burn can't steal any games from us with Eidolon of the Great Revel.


See Above



Cards we don't want to play:

Stony Silence - I honestly don't understand the inclusion of this anymore. I would rather play up to 4 Suppression Field. Stony Silence is just so narrow these days and isn't as important to have access to. Reclamation Sage can solve the problems that Stony Silence would.

I understand it's non-synergy with Helm I just don't understand how people expect to beat ANT, TES or Forgemaster decks. If someone has a plan that works that is better please post it because I would like to adopt it. If you could cut Stony I'd add 3 Kruphix's Insigt as a way to gain card advantage against BGx decks sans enchantress since we are so easily blown out by Golgari Charm.


Sterling Grove - This card often does not do enough on its own and I'm supporting its exclusion. Abrupt Decay decks are on the decline. It can be super important to secure games versus elves and d&t where they would remove your protection effect, but we'll just lean on extra confinement cards.

Agree


Sigil of the Empty Throne - why play this when we can play a card that pretty much wins the game on the spot.


It's a good card, just not what the doctor ordered for the slot for reasons posted a few pages back. If someone has a anti combo plan that does not involve Gaddock I'd like to know because that is a good portion of the reason why Sigil got cut.



Cards in question:

Song of the Dryads - a few people brought this up a few pages back, but there was no real consensus. Are there lands we want to hit? Is this just for non-white (non-Oblivion Ring builds of enchantress? Is this just to satiate our Vorthos needs?

Untested I wouldn't play it at the GP The fact that it can shut off Eye of Ugin or Depths is nic


Confinement Priest - I like having a better matchup versus faster combo decks... but I don't like how it does nothing for our engine. For Elves, I'd rather have Moat or Humility effects, surviving the early turns with Elephant Grass and Swords to Plowshares. It's also too slow versus dredge.

Untested, and I agree it may be too slow.


Energy Field - On the back of 3 main deck Rest in Peace, I really want to play this, but don't want to hurt the consistency of the deck by adding blue. So I've opted for more Solitary Confinement and potentially a fourth Elephant Grass

Agree


Dryad Arbor is risky as every with the increase in Forked Bolt and Electrickery, but the speed of the format gives reason for another turn 1 play in the Green Sun's Zenith for 0. I really wouldn't count this as a land slot though. And you likely need to scale down to 3 Serra's Sanctum if you include it.

I don't think it's needed. If you add it in a non-land slot it cuts into enchantments and that seem undesirable.


Root Maze I like this spice. If we're worried about artifacts, this can help fill the gap of the missing Stony Silence. We would likely end up boarding out Helm when we want this card.


I tested it. This prevents you from chaining Sanctums. Seems bad.

[TrevaBlues]

I'm always trying to jam a 4th back in, but I have difficulty finding the right slot. In the last list I posted I would cut the Kruphix's Insight to do this.

Yeah that's where I want the 4th Solitary Confinement as well.


I used to play 3 in the board, and it did add a different dimension to the deck, however in a strange way Swords to Plowshares is better. In most cases you could care less about control. That is unless they have a clock. Casting Swords to remove the clock (i.e. Delver in) is better than resolving Carpet to race to Confinement. That is just what I have personally found. Keep in mind UW deck will board in Meddling Mage to keep you off of Emrakul, so his removal is crucial. Yes you can do that with O ring effects, but it's efficiency of slot that ultimately got Carpet cut from the board because when it came in it eventually just felt comfortable, but wasn't really needed.

Thanks for this. I'm definitely on board with your line of play against the aggressive decks with soft permission. I hadn't seen Swords in the list until you posted and it just seems so perfect.
I guess just because of the meta I want access to Carpets and Chokes, but they are not necessary if you already like your matchups.


I understand it's non-synergy with Helm I just don't understand how people expect to beat ANT, TES or Forgemaster decks. If someone has a plan that works that is better please post it because I would like to adopt it.

Yeah the nonbo with Helm doesn't really bother me. Stony Silence hates against Storm where Suppression field can't (shutting off fetchlands is often enough though).
vs Storm I'm leaning on Leyline or a ramped out Teeg or (if necessary) Solitary Confinement to just keep them from winning turn 2/3. Nut draws are nut draws but making them spend U or UU to Chain of Vapor can be enough to keep them from t2/3 wins. IF you go back to Probe you can determine if you need to use your turn 2 to slow them down or get your enchantress on board. This plan is super difficult if you can't turn 1 mana play, which is my motive for Dryad Arbor. This is also where Root Maze comes in, as a way to slow down storm.
vs Forgemaster I'm leaning on Reclamation Sage or Swords to restrict mana since Suppression can shut off the rest.


If you could cut Stony I'd add 3 Kruphix's Insight as a way to gain card advantage against BGx decks sans enchantress since we are so easily blown out by Golgari Charm.

Sounds like a good plan.

Thanks for the input Freggle!

[Freggle]

Yeah the nonbo with Helm doesn't really bother me. Stony Silence hates against Storm where Suppression field can't (shutting off fetchlands is often enough though).
vs Storm I'm leaning on Leyline or a ramped out Teeg or (if necessary) Solitary Confinement to just keep them from winning turn 2/3. Nut draws are nut draws but making them spend U or UU to Chain of Vapor can be enough to keep them from t2/3 wins. IF you go back to Probe you can determine if you need to use your turn 2 to slow them down or get your enchantress on board. This plan is super difficult if you can't turn 1 mana play, which is my motive for Dryad Arbor. This is also where Root Maze comes in, as a way to slow down storm.
vs Forgemaster I'm leaning on Reclamation Sage or Swords to restrict mana since Suppression can shut off the rest.

Seems reasonable. ...but personally I'd test the hell out of that. It may work though.


Thanks for the input Freggle!

Thank you. ...and good luck to you and anyone else rocking Enchantress at the GP I will be rooting for all of you.

Wish I could be there.

-Freggle

[nedleeds]

Couple of things, If Argothian Enchantress is your only green creature i really don't think you need 4 Green Sun Zenith. I feel having anything less than 4 Sterling Grove is just wrong.

Agree. People babble about locks in this thread in lists without Sterling Grove. It's Enlightened Tutor on a stick that allows you to actually maintain your board vs. Decay, Elves and bounce. When you've got 15% of the field running elves shrouding your moat/grass/confinement really matters. The card disadvantage of top deck tutors is neutered by the nature of the engine. The first step in the game plan of enchantress is to power out the engine. Green Sun is fine, better if you are running 3+ guiles ... I like one or two non Argothian targets. Courser is acceptable, maybe even Eidolon ... though both get significantly better when you run grove. Running 4 confinement is also awful, you don't want one until you've established your engine otherwise it's a shitty fog and you can't brainstorm extras away. 2 is fine especially when you know you are running 4 demonics tutors that shroud your board.

[Freggle]

Agree. People babble about locks in this thread in lists without Sterling Grove. It's Enlightened Tutor on a stick that allows you to actually maintain your board vs. Decay, Elves and bounce. When you've got 15% of the field running elves shrouding your moat/grass/confinement really matters. The card disadvantage of top deck tutors is neutered by the nature of the engine. The first step in the game plan of enchantress is to power out the engine. Green Sun is fine, better if you are running 3+ guiles ... I like one or two non Argothian targets. Courser is acceptable, maybe even Eidolon ... though both get significantly better when you run grove. Running 4 confinement is also awful, you don't want one until you've established your engine otherwise it's a shitty fog and you can't brainstorm extras away. 2 is fine especially when you know you are running 4 demonics tutors that shroud your board.

Elves when unabated is a turn 3-4 combo deck that can easily win through Elephant Grass. Which turn are you playing your Sterling Grove? ...Turn 2 or 3? ...and what are you shrouding?

Sterling Grove is not a good tempo card. ...and the GW list was tuned to be the most up tempo it could be. Lists with 4 GSZ give you a decent play vs. Elves in a T2 or T3 Gaddock Teeg.

...and frankly if Elves board in decay they are likely doing something wrong, as the pressure is on us to stop them and that is not an easy task. I'd be happy if they want to spend their first few turns decaying and cabaling. That means I'll get more turns.

Lastly, if your packing 4 Confinements is and 12+ enchantress effects it is very plausible to be able to drop a Confinement as early as T3 or T4 and be able to sustain it. Which I have done on more than a handful of times. ...and if for some reason your deck doesn't help you out and it was a fog. So be it. At least you lived another turn to potentially Guile / Draw into the next one.

[Claymore1]

Emrakul, the Aeons Torn - This can be a dead card in an opening hand unless playing versus Show and Tell, but it is one card that does what we want. We don't need multiple so we can keep our deck straightforward. I must stress the importance of how quickly it can win the game. Enchantress matches can go to time, especially if you run the more convoluted win conditions.


Agree, and I tested quite a few cards because I did not want this to be true, but I honestly feel this is the best (alt) win con.

Regarding this topic, will it be viable to try the Forbidden Orchard + Defense of the Heart plan?
Having these as our win conditions?
Emrakul, the Eons Torn
Progenitus
Sigil of the Empty Throne

Also, for a GW build that doesn't use RIP/Helm, if you guys are using Green Sun's Zenith, for and increased chances of argothian enchantress and a possible turn 1 ramp with Dryad Arbor, would it be bad to try to add in 1 Worship along the Confinements?

[Freggle]

Regarding this topic, will it be viable to try the Forbidden Orchard + Defense of the Heart plan?
Having these as our win conditions?
Emrakul, the Eons Torn
Progenitus
Sigil of the Empty Throne

Also, for a GW build that doesn't use RIP/Helm, if you guys are using Green Sun's Zenith, for and increased chances of argothian enchantress and a possible turn 1 ramp with Dryad Arbor, would it be bad to try to add in 1 Worship along the Confinements?

When people are asking about Choke, Carpet of Flowers, & Defense of the Heart I feel like it's apporpriate to post a link to this this other Enchantress Variant (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?23437-Developmental-Spreading-Illusions-An-Enchantress-Variant&highlight=Spreading) I worked on as the cards would get closer and closer to that list minus the island enchants.

I don't think it would be as powerful because it make your mana base weaker, plays less well with Gaddock, and sometimes looses to itself. ...as in you can do a lot of damage to yourself. Keeping it strictly GW would help it out quite a bit if you abandon the Island Enchant plan.

As for Worship there is merit in bringing that card up for discussion. ...however if you wanted that type of effect for Elves I think your better off with Magus of the Moat like someone mentioned earlier as that can be cast with a Teeg on the board. ...which is important in slowing down Elves.

[Bertrand Hustle]

An Enchantress made Day 2 of GPNJ according to Wizards. Anyone have any info on this player/deck? Hoping they are doing well!

[Freggle]

An Enchantress made Day 2 of GPNJ according to Wizards. Anyone have any info on this player/deck? Hoping they are doing well!

No info on it here, but I have been watching the coverage to catch a glimpse of it.

Source of the info is here (http://magic.wizards.com/en/events/coverage/gpnj14/d2meta).

[Bertrand Hustle]

No info on it here, but I have been watching the coverage to catch a glimpse of it.

Source of the info is here (http://magic.wizards.com/en/events/coverage/gpnj14/d2meta).

Yeah, that's where I saw it. Looked everywhere online for lists and there's nothing so far :(

Going to be really interesting to read the reports trickling in as we'll probably see someone mention it if they played against it.

[Watersaw]

An Enchantress made Day 2 of GPNJ according to Wizards. Anyone have any info on this player/deck? Hoping they are doing well!

Keep the dream alive. I got to round 7 before getting my third loss. Here's a record of me scrubbing out:

0-2 vs. Lands It was actually the first time I lost a game against lands, but in my defense he had 4 Chains of Mephistopheles in the mainboard. I have no idea if this is the new normal for them but god damn. Still, I mulligan'd a risky hand and had to go to 5. Should have just gone for it. He Abrupt Decays a Presence and a Rest in Peace and plays about 3 Crop Rotations, getting a legendary 20/20 black Avatar creature token with flying and indestructible named Marit Lage. Game 2 I learn that Massacre and Krosan Grip are pretty good. Played way too conservatively, I was paranoid that he may have had a Helm of Obedience in the board.

2-0 vs. Sneak and Show Now we're talking. He was splashing black for Thoughtsieze, thought that was pretty neat. Game one I fire off a Helm right after he tries to reset my board. Game 2 I delay Sneak Attack with an early Suppression Field and manage to Oblivion Ring it away while he sticks Pithing Needle(helm). I untap and GSZ for Gaddock Teeg and bring the beats with grandpa and Dryad Arbor, chaining enchantments as I go. I get him to 3 life and he tries for Show and Tell and I have the Banishing Light.

2-1 vs. Izzet Delver Game one he comes out swinging and I lose on turn 5. We shuffle up and try it again, this time with him scooping to Solitary Confinement backed up by 2 Enchantresses. Turns out that card is pretty good. Game 3 I slow him down with Elephant Grass and Suppression Field. I get to attack for 15.

2-1 vs. Burn He opens with Goblin Guide and Eidolon of the Great Revel. After some quick math, I decide to gamble on a turn 2 Argothian Enchantress instead of going right for Confinement. Good news: he dosen't have it. I start my turn at 4 life and live to pass about 6 turns, exiling his pile of bolts. Game 2 I don't see much and his deck does what his deck does and he kindly reminds me that Volcanic Fallout is really cool. Final round I open with a Leyline of Sanctity. What follows is an incredibly grindy game involving a Grim Lavamancer wading alone through my lawn. By the time Emrakul, the Aeons Torn is finally ready for the prom, my opponent has played 8 lands.

2-0 vs. Izzet Delver No one can stop Solitary Confinement. Or Elephant Grass for that matter, with [cards]Swords to Plowshares solving an early Monastary Swiftspear and Young Pyromancer leaving 6ish elemental tokens back home to go sideways.

1-2 vs. Goblins I feel like I need to take a good long look at this matchup. I was expecting a straight aggro deck. What i got was a mana denial strategy. Game one Goblin Lackey drops Goblin Matron which finds Goblin Settler. RIP my Utopia Sprawl. I get to go first this time and manage to trump a Ethersworn Canonist and Thalia, Guardian of Thraben. Swords to Plowshares 2stronk. Game 3 I make a critical error on turn 1: I could play Green Sun's Zenith for nil or Utopia Sprawl. Seeing as I don't wanna get blown completely out by Settler (again), I go for the creature. He Tarfires it and untaps into Chalice of the Void on 1. I play an Argothian and cycle 2 cards, he plays Warren Instigator. I don't block it for some reason (the Enchantress might have died somehow?) and he goes Matron>Settler>Thalia. So here I am staring at this Reclamation Sage thinking about all that could have been.

1-2 vs. UWR control/America Blade is a cool name I'm on the draw and start with Zenith for Arbor. He expresses a great distaste for elves and has Stoneforge Mystic create an astounding replica of the legendary Toshiro Umezawa's Jitte. Jokes on him, I play a sup-field. Jokes on me, he was holding the Batterskull. I prank him back (again) with Argothian > Grass. At this point, I'm pretty sure he was holding Force of Will for Helm of Obedience. Emrakul saves the day. Game 2 he plays correctly and just counters everything. Side note: Containment Priest does not need flash. Game 3 I stick turn 2 Suppression Field and figure he has no counters. I play Enchantress's Presence to check anyway (spoilers: he did have one) only for him to Vendillion Clique my Choke. He draws his dual lands and I draw fetches (bummer) and I forget that Karakas has more than one line of text. Turns out I suck at this game. In addition to any and all play errors, I probably sideboarded wrong in this round and the one prior.

At this point it was 9:00 and the convention center stopped serving food an hour ago. My next opponent doesn't show, and round 9 the guy cares so little (Izzet Delver) that it's not even worth reporting. I 2-0'd him. w/e

Silver lining: after waiting in vain for round 8 I started playing a game with a random person only for him to open with Windswept Heath>Forest>Utopia Sprawl. I look at my Mirri's Guile and decide "screw it, it's too sweet" and follow suit. What follows is a 40ish minute chat with him and a guy who turned out to be The_Dingo about the deck. Good stuff. Doomwake seems super sweet.

P.S. I took Mirri's Guile out against Delver and burn. Not sure that was the right call but it felt like it paid off.

[JankMaster]

I hope that we find away to get a list

[WorstBandNameEver]

An Enchantress made Day 2 of GPNJ according to Wizards. Anyone have any info on this player/deck? Hoping they are doing well!

Hey All!

I'm the Enchantress player who made day 2 at GPNJ. Unfortunately, I had a pretty bad day 2. Truthfully, but not ot make excuses, I'm not really used to playing this much magic in a two day span and I was worn out by the end of last night. I'm an elementary school teacher and I usually get up around 5:30 am and go to sleep around 9 pm. Being up play magic until 11:30 pm on Saturday night was not easy.

I think someone shot a few pictures of my deck for something while I was playing but I'm not sure if they show up anywhere. I have guru Fforests and plains as well as FBB Savannahs and Tropical Island so people notice it now and again.

I will post my list below. Feel free to talk about it. It's far from perfect and I have a few suspect choices in the sideboard.

Main Deck

Creatures
4 Argothian Enchantress
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

Enchantments
1 Wild Growth
4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Enchantress's Presence
1 Energy Field
1 Moat
1 Sphere of Safety
2 Solitary Confinement
4 Sterling Grove
3 Mirri's Guile
4 Elephant Grass
3 Rest In Peace

Instants and Sorceries
2 Enlightened Tutor
3 Green Sun's Zenith

Artifacts
2 Helm of Obedience

Lands
1 Tropical Island
2 Savannah
3 Serra's Sanctum
4 Windswept Heath
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Karakas
2 Plains
6 Forests

Sideboard
1 Sigil of the Empty Throne
1 City of Solitude
1 Energy Field
1 Blind Obedience
1 Humility
1 Oblivion Ring
4 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Aegis of Honor
1 Carpet of Flowers
1 Rest in Peace
1 Choke
1 Melira, Sylvok Outcast

Day 1 Matches

Round 1 - UR Delver - Win 2-0
Round 2 - Depths Lands - Loss 1-2
Round 3 - Life From the Loam Deck w/ Deathrite, Entomb, Exploration, and Terravore - Win 2-0
Round 4 - UWr Stoneforge/Jace/Control - Win 2-0
Round 5 - UR Delver w/ mutgenic growth- Loss 0-2
Round 6 - UWr Stoneforge/Jace/Control - Win 2-1
Round 7 - Burn - Win 2-0
Round 8 - Goblins w/ Thalia Win 2-1
Round 9 - Burn Win 2-1 (Game one I kept a shaky 6 of dryad arbor and sanctum and he chain lightning my dryad. I had no mana for the rest of game one)

Day 2

Round 10 - Sneak and Show - Loss 0-2 (Game one I had to mull to 3 to find any lands)
Round 11 - UR Delver - Win 2-0
Round 12 - Dark Maverick Loss 1-2 (I think I could have drawn out or won game three if I did not make a pay mistake to get energy field/RIP online)
Round 13 - Elves w/ Ruic Thar - Loss 1-2
Round 14 - UR Delver - Loss 1-2

I dropped at this point as I think I was outside making it into top 230. I had some friends in the vintage side event I planned to be playing in before making day 2 so I wanted to say hi to them. I also had to get home to do quite a bit of work for the week. I would have played the last round if that was not the case to see how it rounded out.

MVP of the weekend was Energy Field, even without a Rest In Peace in play it gave me enough time to get things up. I've been playing the GWr version in the past with blood moons but that seemed like the wrong choice for this GP. Energy Field and only a few abrupt decays running around is fantastic.

If you have any questions, I can try to answer them I suppose.

[Ghost588]

Hey All!

I'm the Enchantress player who made day 2 at GPNJ. Unfortunately, I had a pretty bad day 2. Truthfully, but not ot make excuses, I'm not really used to playing this much magic in a two day span and I was worn out by the end of last night. I'm an elementary school teacher and I usually get up around 5:30 am and go to sleep around 9 pm. Being up play magic until 11:30 pm on Saturday night was not easy.

I think someone shot a few pictures of my deck for something while I was playing but I'm not sure if they show up anywhere. I have guru Fforests and plains as well as FBB Savannahs and Tropical Island so people notice it now and again.

I will post my list below. Feel free to talk about it. It's far from perfect and I have a few suspect choices in the sideboard.

Main Deck

Creatures
4 Argothian Enchantress
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

Enchantments
1 Wild Growth
4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Enchantress's Presence
1 Energy Field
1 Moat
1 Sphere of Safety
2 Solitary Confinement
4 Sterling Grove
3 Mirri's Guile
4 Elephant Grass
3 Rest In Peace

Instants and Sorceries
2 Enlightened Tutor
3 Green Sun's Zenith

Artifacts
2 Helm of Obedience

Lands
1 Tropical Island
2 Savannah
3 Serra's Sanctum
4 Windswept Heath
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Karakas
2 Plains
6 Forests

Sideboard
1 Sigil of the Empty Throne
1 City of Solitude
1 Energy Field
1 Blind Obedience
1 Humility
1 Oblivion Ring
4 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Aegis of Honor
1 Carpet of Flowers
1 Rest in Peace
1 Choke
1 Melira, Sylvok Outcast

Day 1 Matches

Round 1 - UR Delver - Win 2-0
Round 2 - Depths Lands - Loss 1-2
Round 3 - Life From the Loam Deck w/ Deathrite, Entomb, Exploration, and Terravore - Win 2-0
Round 4 - UWr Stoneforge/Jace/Control - Win 2-0
Round 5 - UR Delver w/ mutgenic growth- Loss 0-2
Round 6 - UWr Stoneforge/Jace/Control - Win 2-1
Round 7 - Burn - Win 2-0
Round 8 - Goblins w/ Thalia Win 2-1
Round 9 - Burn Win 2-1 (Game one I kept a shaky 6 of dryad arbor and sanctum and he chain lightning my dryad. I had no mana for the rest of game one)

Day 2

Round 10 - Sneak and Show - Loss 0-2 (Game one I had to mull to 3 to find any lands)
Round 11 - UR Delver - Win 2-0
Round 12 - Dark Maverick Loss 1-2 (I think I could have drawn out or won game three if I did not make a pay mistake to get energy field/RIP online)
Round 13 - Elves w/ Ruic Thar - Loss 1-2
Round 14 - UR Delver - Loss 1-2

I dropped at this point as I think I was outside making it into top 230. I had some friends in the vintage side event I planned to be playing in before making day 2 so I wanted to say hi to them. I also had to get home to do quite a bit of work for the week. I would have played the last round if that was not the case to see how it rounded out.

MVP of the weekend was Energy Field, even without a Rest In Peace in play it gave me enough time to get things up. I've been playing the GWr version in the past with blood moons but that seemed like the wrong choice for this GP. Energy Field and only a few abrupt decays running around is fantastic.

If you have any questions, I can try to answer them I suppose.


Great job! I think I was the stoneblade player you went against. We pretty much talked about vintage the whole time and you impressed I didn't have to read all your cards, lulz. So happy for you man.

Nice to meet you and best of luck in the future :)

[WorstBandNameEver]

Great job! I think I was the stoneblade player you went against. We pretty much talked about vintage the whole time and you impressed I didn't have to read all your cards, lulz. So happy for you man.

Nice to meet you and best of luck in the future :)

Thanks Ghost! Our match was definitely one of the most fun I had all day long. It was really nice to have some normal conversations with people while playing.

[Ghost588]

Thanks Ghost! Our match was definitely one of the most fun I had all day long. It was really nice to have some normal conversations with people while playing.

Ditto :)

You might just have inspired me to pick up this deck :)

[smudge2005]

@WorstBandNameEver How did the Sterling Grove's play out for you over the weekend, seeing the players in this forum page are split over having them, or not having them.

[honz]

Hey All!

I'm the Enchantress player who made day 2 at GPNJ....
If you have any questions, I can try to answer them I suppose.


How was dryad arbor for you? Most people tend to think wild growth/sprawl/guile are better turn 1 options. Semi-related, it looks like you cut some wild growths for enlightened tutors, did you miss them?

You said energy field was really good, would you run more? Perhaps instead of moat or a solitary confinement or sphere of safety? Losing against UR delver 3 times, it would seem energy field would be better there.

2 helms with 2 enlightened tutors sounds like overkill to me. I don't dislike the tutors, but the 2nd helm looks clunky. Was it worth it?


Anyhow, congrats. Nice job missing combo all day with that sideboard, hah.

[WorstBandNameEver]

How was dryad arbor for you? Most people tend to think wild growth/sprawl/guile are better turn 1 options. Semi-related, it looks like you cut some wild growths for enlightened tutors, did you miss them?

You said energy field was really good, would you run more? Perhaps instead of moat or a solitary confinement or sphere of safety? Losing against UR delver 3 times, it would seem energy field would be better there.

2 helms with 2 enlightened tutors sounds like overkill to me. I don't dislike the tutors, but the 2nd helm looks clunky. Was it worth it?


Anyhow, congrats. Nice job missing combo all day with that sideboard, hah.

Dryad arbor is new for me. I would certainly prefer a Mirri's guile on turn one.

Over the past few years, I've went down from 3 wild growth to 1 wild growth. That was not really a current choice for me and it's just what I'm used to honestly.

Again, two helm was something I have just been doing for a while. But, certainly going to one make sense. I often ended up boarding one out anyway. Occasionally though, I just get games where I draw both pieces and win without playing at all like enchantress. Hands like Forest, Forest, Fetch, Sprawl, Helm, Rip, Enlightened Tutor.

I feel like I had a lot of games where enlightened tutor was grabbing me the pieces to pull it together.

I was 2-2 with UR delver, not 1-3. Maybe I wrote it wrong? Energy field was probably the most relevant card against them that they had no answer for if it was no countered.

I knew I was soft to combo in the sideboard, even more than enchantress normally is. As I said, some pretty suspect sideboard choices. That was a pretty deliberate choice going into the event based on some discussion with my play group and what we anticipated seeing during the day. I certainly lucked out in that way. I was not anticipating making it to day 2. My goal was to play Saturday then play the vintage event on Sunday at noon.

Melira was more of a local choice as a place I play at now and again has a lot of infect decks. That just ended up staying in there even though I would have prefer to have something else in the board.

There were at least 2 other enchantress players who ended up 6-3 on day one and lost their win and ins.

[WorstBandNameEver]

@WorstBandNameEver How did the Sterling Grove's play out for you over the weekend, seeing the players in this forum page are split over having them, or not having them.

I think the tutoring off of sterling grove felt more relevant than the shroud piece in the match ups that I had. Against the maverick deck, groves made his abrupt decays and pridemages are little more challenging for him.

I'm sure there is a lot of stronger current thinking with the deck. I have no claims to being a good pilot, a good magic player, or someone who really makes the best deck construction choices. But, I always have the most fun playing enchantress more than any other deck in legacy.

[TrevaBlues]

Hey All!
I'm the Enchantress player who made day 2 at GPNJ. Unfortunately, I had a pretty bad day 2. Truthfully, but not ot make excuses, I'm not really used to playing this much magic in a two day span and I was worn out by the end of last night. I'm an elementary school teacher and I usually get up around 5:30 am and go to sleep around 9 pm. Being up play magic until 11:30 pm on Saturday night was not easy.


Keep the dream alive. I got to round 7 before getting my third loss.

Congrats to you both!

Friday at GP I got a Savannah to get my list where I wanted. I was super excited.
I entered a grinder with my Enchantress only to have to mull to 5 and 6 (with Emrakul in hand) games 1 and 2 vs BUG Delver where I draw my Dryad Arbor.
Both games are t1 delver into blind-flips with dazes/fows.
I was quite deflated after that lol.

[The_Dingo]

I Scrubbed pretty hard at the GP, going 3-3. I think I might be bad at Magic. Highlight of the day was meeting Watersaw (completely and totally at random) which was cool, especially given the way that it happened.


R1 0-2 vs burn. A nice opponent and a thorough trouncing. Not much to say except that I couldn't seem to find a solitary in G1 or G2. I probably should have mulled deeper in G2.

R2 2-0 vs manaless dredge. He mulligans G1 while on the draw. I assume he didn't have a dredger. Anyway he concedes to a T2 RiP in game 1, then in game 2 I have the T2 RiP and a T4 helm. I had 40 minutes after the round, and I had no idea what to do, since I almost always go to time.

R3 2-0 vs RW painter A thoroughly nice opponent and I enjoyed this match a lot. I had triple suppression field and solitray in G2, and he conceded after I made some angel tokens.

R4 1-2 UR delver. Not the most up to date list. He had guides, but no treasure cruise or swiftspear. I dug really deep in G1 and G3 for solitray but was unable to find it.

R5 2-0 vs RUG delver He was still on the nimble mongoose plan, and didn't play cruise. He got mana screwed real hard both games.

R6 0-2 vs burn I mull to 3 cards, and the game was over very quickly. Game 2 he had the turn 3 kill. womp womp. I dropped after that.

I saw a fairly large number of people playing enchantress. In R2 I was seated next to a dude with a totally pimped out list including beta duals (maybe they were FBB I didn't get a good look) with everything in foil. It was sofa king sweet. Unfortunately, he was paired with reanimator that round, and I never saw him again. The end.

[The_Dingo]

I have no claims to being a good pilot, a good magic player, or someone who really makes the best deck construction choices. But, I always have the most fun playing enchantress more than any other deck in legacy.

Well said, and congrats on a real strong tournament with a sweet deck.

[Freggle]

Congratz to all the Enchantress players at GP NJ. I feel like this is a good push to further the archetype a bit more. There was an Enchantress list that placed 19th in a the 500+ player tournament "Super Sunday Series." The person SplashBros posted his experience on Salvation. No list (s) yet, but it they are GW with Helm, Sigil, Emrakul, GSZ's and Sterling Groves

[Imaginasian]

I got 37th in the Super Sunday Series playing Enchantress. Nothing notable with my list, but if anyone wanted a list or a rundown of my matches I can certainly do that. I went 7-3 with losses in rounds 3, 5, and 9.

[The_Dingo]

I got 37th in the Super Sunday Series playing Enchantress. Nothing notable with my list, but if anyone wanted a list or a rundown of my matches I can certainly do that. I went 7-3 with losses in rounds 3, 5, and 9.

I would love a rundown and a decklist. Also love the quote Opponent: "Your deck seems extremely complicated and tedious to play."
Me: "I know isn't it great?"

[forestfold]

I would love a rundown and a decklist. Also love the quote Opponent: "Your deck seems extremely complicated and tedious to play."
Me: "I know isn't it great?"

Yeah :D I almost played SSS with Enchantress, but I had a little too much vending to do to join it. My friend made top 8 with UR Delver, said the competition was decent. I would echo that any information about big tournaments would be appreciated, if you have the time to whip up a report.

[Imaginasian]

So 37th out of like 479 in the Sunday Super Series. My day 1 didn't go as planned as I played Imperial Painter (the shortcake version) and lost to ANT, Reanimator, and Burn before I had enough. I originally wasn't going to play the Sunday Super Series because I really only Painter and Enchantress built. But as my friends tell me all the time...play Enchantress because you know how to play it and your deck looks god damn beautiful. So a list first:

Sidenote: I can't take credit for this list as it is basically Paul Lynch's Enchantress list circa almost 2 years ago it feels like it.

1 Arid Mesa
1 Karakas
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Taiga
2 Savannah
2 Serra's Sanctum
4 Windswept Heath
2 Plains
7 Forest

4 Argothian Enchantress
1 Words of War
1 Moat
4 Sterling Grove
1 Runed Halo
1 Blood Moon
1 Sigil of the Empty Throne
3 Elephant Grass
2 Replenish
4 Wild Growth
3 Solitary Confinement
1 Oblivion Ring
2 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Enchantress's Presence
3 Mirri's Guile
4 Utopia Sprawl

Sideboard:

1 City of Solitude
1 Stone Silence
1 Choke
1 Raking Canopy
1 Rest in Peace
1 Nevermore
4 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Ground Seal
1 Aegis of Honor
1 Humility
1 Karmic Justice
1 Wheel of Sun and Moon

Round 1: UWR Delver 2-0
Older guy from the Chicago area. We banter a little. He has no idea how to play against Enchantress. I resolve some number of Enchantress effects and Solitary Confinement. We play draw go for a few turns until I find Words and kill him relatively quick. Game 2 starts off the same this time I kill him with Sigil and it was a quick 2-0

Round 2: UWR Delver 2-0
Some guy from Canada. Starts off by Probing me and knows what I'm doing. I resolve an Enchantress and run spells into counterspells. He counters my Solitary and I Replenish everything back into play and we are off to game 2. I do more of the same and I get 2 Enchantress effects, Solitary and find Words. 2-0

Round 3: Hexmage Depths 1-2
Game one he fetches basic Forest and plays Deathrite Shaman. I can't figure out what he's doing and at the end of my turn 2 he Crop Rotations for Depths with mana floating and a Thespian Stage in play, makes a Marit Lage and off to game 2. This game is much better. I resolve a turn 3 Blood Moon against a bunch of Factories and we kind of sit there for a long time not doing anything. I find Words and he scoops. Game 3 the guy end of turns plays double Crop Rotation but doesn't sac any lands and a guy watching stops us to go get a judge. Guy gets a warning, he still gets depths and a stage and makes a Marit Lage. I laugh because I have Grass in play. He Decays my grass and I scoop them up.

Round 4: Burn 2-1
Game one he wins the die roll and opens Mountain, Rift Bolt suspend. I smirk a little until he plays an Eidolon and I realize that I can't stabilize before I die. He throws more burn at me and I die. Sideboarding I immediately grab the Aegis and all the Leylines. Game 2 I open with double Leyline. I get to do things while he doesn't and he doesn't scoop even after I find Solitary and I have a grip of 7 in my hand. I kill him with Words eventually and off we go to game 3. I open with a Leyline again and shut him out of doing pretty much everything. He plays a Vortex and I play a Confinement, eventually I find Words and it's game over for him.

Round 5: Jund 2-1
Game one I win the die roll and I go Forest, Wild Growth. She opens on Fetch, Bayou, Deathrite. She casts a Confidant and nuggs me for 1. Next turn I play Elephant Grass which she Abrupt Decays. She flips land to Bob and plays a second Bob and nuggs me for 3. I can't stabilize as she bolts me and I deploy double Grass which gets Pulsed for game. Game 2 she does more or less of the same stuff except I cast Replenish and get it all back along with Confinement. I never play a win con and she scoops to my card advantage. She makes some off handed remark about how she wishes she had a "Blow Up All Enchantments" card. Game 3 I try to get Enchantress effects and Solitary into play but she has Double Deathrite and I think in my head that I'm so dead. I deploy a Confinement which gets Decayed. I deploy another Confinement and she casts Deed and says out loud "I hope I do this in the correct order! Deed for 2!" I look at her and realize that her Deed was going to kill her Double Deathrite and Bob while it will blow up like 11 of my permanents but leave me with a Confinement while I still had a Green Sun, an Enchantment and a Replenish. Replenish brings it all back I think? And she scoops up her cards. I tell her afterwards that Deathrite doesn't target and that I was actually dead before she deeded. She was really mad at herself.

Round 6: Grixis Delver 1-2
I don't really want to talk about this. Opponent was a dick. I lost the 3rd game to two blindflipped Delvers.

Round 7: Affinity 2-1
We get randomly deck checked. I beat him pretty quickly game one with Solitary and a few Enchantress effects. Game 2 he plays Memnite and Plating on turn one and clocks me for 6 the next turn. I can't keep up and die. Game 3 I get my Stone Silence Thoughtseized but he has no clock. I Replenish for my Stony Silence back and sit behind Moat and a million other things and I kill him with Words.

Round 8: ANT 2-1
Game one I start Forest into Guile. He plays a bunch of spells and kills me turn 1. Magic is so sweet! Game 2 I sideboard Leyline and we shuffle up. I open with 2 Leylines which I sit behind for 3 turns. I find a Sterling Grove and smirk. He starts storming off and 3 minutes into his turn he says "You know I have lethal Tendrills right?" I nod and say okay well show me and kill me then. He casts Chain of Vapor targeting my Leyline and I say he has to target the Grove. He thinks, bounces the Grove, plays 2 more spells and scoops! Game 3 no Leyline in my opening hand but I got Stony Silence and Nevermore which I boarded in after game 2. I cast Stony Silence and I cast Nevermore naming Chain of Vapor. I play some more things, he can't cast anything and scoops.

Round 9: UWR Delver 0-2
I lose the first game in about 3 minutes after he Pierces my Green Sun and Dazes my Enchantress and Forces something else and I die to Delver. Game 2 is a repeat of the first game except he plays Meddling Mage and names Presence with it. I can't draw gas or anything and die to a Meddling Mage.

Round 10: UWR Stoneblade 2-0
Opponent plays Tundra and Ponders. I think it's UWR Delver again. A Stoneforge still confirms that it's probably UWR Delver. I resolve an Enchantress and a Confinement and sit behind it while I find something to kill him. I find Words and we are off to game 2. Game 2 he keeps a one lander and doesn't draw land for like 5 turns which gives me time to cobble something together. I find Words again and he scoops them up.

After playing 10 rounds and ending 7-3 I was more surprised by my play and how well I dodged Miracles and Sneak and Show. 7-3 got me 18 packs of Khans which eventually ended up being a foil Heath and a Sorin wooooooooo! Thanks for reading!

[Sammo]

I went 6-3 at the GP with this deck. Should've been 7-2 but i punted horribly which i would describe as probably my worse game of magic ever.

R1: RUG Cloudpost Win 2-1
He banefired me for 20 in game 2 :(

R2: UR Delver Win 2-0
This matchup is just plain easy.... lol Elephant Grass

R3: UWR Stoneblade Win 2-1

R4: UWR Stoneblade Lose 0-2
This guys build was a little different. He had more of a counter/top/miracles list with stoneforge in it.

R5 Goblins Win 2-1
Turns out...Goblins still can't be Moat...Game 2 he proceeded to blow up my lands With Goblin Settler. QQ

R6 Mud Lose 0-2
This matchup is plain awful. He was running cloudpost package as well and was able to ramp into sundering titan through my stony silence...

R7 Burn Lose 0-2
Ok... now game 1 its kind of hard to win...but game 2 i had him locked down where he couldn't do damage to me and proceeded to try out for the NFL as a punter and basically gave him the win... It was absolutely awful... By far the worst game of magic ive ever played.

R8 UR Delver Win 2-1.

R9 No Show....hooray for free wins?

So here is the list....Overall i liked the list... Just not sure what adjustments i can make to it. Open for suggestions!

Main Deck
4 Utopia Sprawl
3 Wild Growth
3 Solitary Confinement
3 Elephant Grass
1 Moat
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Detention Sphere
4 Sterling Grove
1 Runed Halo
3 Rest In Peace
2 Energy Field
1 Helm of Obedience
1 Sigil of the Empty Throne
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Humility
4 Argothian Enchantress
4 Enchantress Presence
2 Enlightened Tutor

5 Forest
3 Plains
2 Savannah
1 Tropical Island
1 Karakas
2 Serra's Sanctum
4 Windswept Heath
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Tundra

Sideboard

1 Stony Silence
4 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Song of the Dryads
1 Rule of Law
3 Carpet of Flowers
1 [cards]Blind Obedience
1 Humility
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Seal of Primordium
1 Rest in Peace

[Holiday]

Nice finish, Sammo.

What changes would you make to your deck? Did any of the cards feel unneeded?

I'm starting to test GSZ instead of Sterling Groves. This seems to be an ongoing debate with this deck.

[Sammo]

Nice finish, Sammo.

What changes would you make to your deck? Did any of the cards feel unneeded?

I'm starting to test GSZ instead of Sterling Groves. This seems to be an ongoing debate with this deck.

I just can't get on board with GSZ. Grove gives us too much protection! If i was playing Eidolon of Blossoms then maybe i could justify GSZ. Halo has its uses, but i'm not 100% it is necessary. Also i may change the D-Sphere to an O-Ring and change the Tundra to another basic of sorts. If only Golden Wish didn't cost so much mana...ugggggggggggg

[Redkid43]

So I've been messing around with a black splash for Doomwake and Words of Waste and have been pleased with testing. Doomwake hits a lot of little spots that Elves and Delver are soft too and having him here feels nice. Words of Waste has been really good against the big control decks as Mind Twisting them right out of the game has never felt better. Take that Terminus! Brainstorm looks so bad when they don't have a hand.

One issue I've run into is how to deligate our mana without too heavily relying on non basics and duals. I had Bayou but I wanted white sometimes and I really only ever need black man when going for Doomwake or Words. So I'm going to see how well Murmuring Bosk works. It's a fetchable tri land, but will always enter play tapped. Could be a tempo loss, but who's say we can't just name black with Sprawl and call it a day?

4 Argothian Enchantress
1 Doomwake Giant
1 Emrakul

4 Enchantress Presence
4 Wild Growth
4 Utopia Sprawl
3 Mirri's Guile
3 Elephant Grass
3 Rest in Peace
3 Solitary Confinement
2 Words of Waste
1 Sphere of Safety

4 Green Sun
2 Enlightened Tutor
1 Helm

4 Serra's Sanctum
4 Windswept Heath
8 Forest
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Karakas
1 Murmuring Bosk
1 Plains

Sideboard
3 Banishing Light
2 Oblivion Ring
1 Eidolon of Blossoms
1 Sigil of the Empty Throne
4 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Choke
1 Teeg
1 Containment Priest

Pretend my sideboard is perfect and needs no changes (HELP PLEASE!!)

I maintain the paradigm that this is probably just an excersize in meta building, but I think that it could be a real thing. Much like Words of Wind in various UG Enchantress Waste takes a while to actually kill and is probably not a winning card, unlike Words of War.

[Freggle]

So I've been messing around with a black splash for Doomwake and Words of Waste and have been pleased with testing. Doomwake hits a lot of little spots that Elves and Delver are soft too and having him here feels nice. Words of Waste has been really good against the big control decks as Mind Twisting them right out of the game has never felt better. Take that Terminus! Brainstorm looks so bad when they don't have a hand.

One issue I've run into is how to delicate our mana without rely too heavily on non basics and duals. I had Bayou but I wanted white sometimes and I really only ever need black man when going for Doomwake or Words. So I'm going to see how well Murmuring Bosk works. It's a fetchable tri land, but will always enter play tapped. Could be a tempo loss, but who's say we can't just name black with Sprawl and call it a day?

4 Argothian Enchantress
1 Doomwake Giant
1 Emrakul

4 Enchantress Presence
4 Wild Growth
4 Utopia Sprawl
3 Mirri's Guile
3 Elephant Grass
3 Rest in Peace
3 Solitary Confinement
2 Words of Waste
1 Sphere of Safety

4 Green Sun
2 Enlightened Tutor
1 Helm

4 Serra's Sanctum
4 Windswept Heath
8 Forest
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Karakas
1 Murmuring Bosk
1 Plains

Sideboard
3 Banishing Light
2 Oblivion Ring
1 Eidolon of Blossoms
1 Sigil of the Empty Throne
4 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Choke
1 Teeg
1 Containment Priest

Pretend my sideboard is perfect and needs no changes (HELP PLEASE!!)

I maintain the paradigm that this is probably just an excersize in meta building, but I think that it could be a real thing. Much like Words of Wind in various UG Enchantress Waste takes a while to actually kill and is probably not a winning card, unlike Words of War.

All the cards you are playing seem good, so the cuts are hard to see without testing it. I know Enlightened Tutor is powerful and likely helps with the consistency of your build, however if I were to try and fix what you are working on I would cut:

-2 Enlightened Tutor
-1 Some other spell
-1 Murmuring Bosk

...and add:

+3 Abundant Growth
+1 Forest

Abundant growth seems strong in 3 color lists. You could also try a misers Prismatic Omen or two so your not blown out by Chalice on 1.

Also, as a side note I have found playing the 21'st land is pretty important in mulliganing less, and beating D&T, and mana denial decks more regularly.

[Redkid43]

Thanks for the quick advice!

Bosk has been...okay? It's nice, but the tempo loss was really noticeable.

Abundant Growth seems cool for mana fixing, and Prismatic Omen could be cute as a miser copy. But what would I cut? I think with more cantrips we can slog through iffy hands and draw into good stuff.

Sphere of Safety is a concession to faster Aggro decks taking over. Its interchangeable with Sigil post side against creature low decks.

[Redkid43]

Update for my list. Sorry for double post:

4 Argothian Enchantress
1 Doomwake Giant
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

4 Enchantress Presence
4 Wild Growth
4 Utopia Sprawl
3 Mirri's Guile
3 Elephant Grass
3 Rest in Peace
2 Abundant Growth
1 Prismatic Omen
3 Solitary Confinement
1 Words of Waste
1 Sphere of Safety

4 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Helm of Obedience

4 Serra's Sanctum
4 Windswept Heath
9 Forest
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Karakas
1 Plains

Sideboard
3 Banishing Light
2 Oblivion Ring
1 Eidolon of Blossoms
1 Sigil of the Empty Throne
4 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Choke
1 Teeg
1 Containment Priest


As it stands now, the deck feels soft of Chalice at 1. So I may cut 1 Growth for a Prismatic Omen. Shaving a Words of Waste was fine, as 1 was really only needed. It's been really cool!

Doomwake was been awesome. It's almost like playing 2 Emrakuls, but 1 is 5 mana.

Here's some points I found when playing him:
-Upon entry, he kills all creatures that are big in the format ( Mom, Delver, Major engine parts with Elves, Young Pyromancer and company, Revoker, Opposing Dryad Arbors, Infect guys, etc)
-The second trigger kills everything else. If you get to a third trigger you're pretty much in the clear.
-He's TOUGH to deal with. Decay proof, requires multiple burn spells, etc. he's been super awesome!

[Kulta]

Cool that the giant is appearantly good enough, or even great, maybe interesting to explore a few other enchantment creatures as one offs, Courser quickly jumps to mind due to her positive interaction with mirri's guile on a same note I can see Nyx Weaver doing some work and with 2 guiles in play you can see 5 cards deep, but might be more suitable in a more replenish oriented deck. Aegis of the gods might also be worthwhile as a 5th misers leyline. The only bad thing about taking this direction would be turning on their removal thus depriving ourselves of that angle of card advantage.

[Redkid43]

Courser seems really good with Guile in the sideboard against burn.

Sunning for her seems really good and I've seen some lists that do play a miser copy

[Scott]

I'm wondering how people sideboard in the BGx matchups, especially the Sultai ones. I always want to keep in RIP/Helm since RIP shuts off DRS and Goyf while setting up the win condition but Replenish also sounds good enough against the targeted destruction (Golgari charm, Sultai charm, Malestrom Pulse ect.), hand disruption, and counterspells. I feel like it's one of the toughest matchups I consistently run into paper that I never see online so my prep for it is just very sub-par.

I play a weird build so I won't talk sideboarding strategy, but this is what I've seen to be good against the tough BUG matchup, in some combination, main or from the side, depending on things: Replenish, Sterling Grove, Rest in Peace, ways to find Enchantress effects after you've lost one, Back to Basics, Carpet of Flowers, Leyline of Sanctity, City of Solitude, Mirri's Guile, Sphere of Safety. I don't play :r: but Blood Moon obviously too. Unfortunately, none are usually total haymakers, so you have to get a good combination of things.

[XdeckX]

I've been messing with a dedicated Helm/Rip enchantress build for a few weeks with great results on Cockatrice. I've got a tournament next sunday where I'm going to run the list.
currently there are 2 actual wincons in the deck: 1 Helm and 1 Sigil. Im thinking of adding a 3rd since I've had both my wincons countered a couple of times without a way to get them back and close the game (where I actually did have the win)
I only have 2 Sanctums available but perhaps that's enough for Emrakul anyway.

For reference the list (from memory)

1 open slot

4 argothian enchantress
1 eidolon of blossoms
4 enchantress’s presence
3 elephant grass
1 exploration
2 mirri's guile
2 oblivion ring
4 rest in peace
1 sigil of the empty throne
1 helm of obedience
2 solitary confinement
1 sphere of safety
2 suppression field
4 wild growth
4 utopia sprawl
1 enlightened tutor
2 green sun's zenith
6 forest
2 karakas
2 plains
2 savannah
2 serra's scantum
4 windswept heath
2 wooded foothills
//
1 cursed totem
1 gaddock teeg
1 reclamation sage
1 choke
1 city of solitude
1 humility
1 karmic justice
4 leyline of sanctity
1 stony silence
3 swords to plowshares

anyone have any insight on the list or the addition of emrakul (or some other 3rd wincondition) to the list? I'd like to keep the list GW instead of adding a 3rd splash for something like Words of War.
A 2nd Helm perhaps?

[Rakadis]

I have good experience with Emrakul as my win condition. He/she/it? will almost always win you the game when it comes in to play. If your opponent cannot answer it with something like Karakas then they are doomed.

I main deck Helm/Rip combo and Emrakul. Depending on what my opponent plays I will side out the helms and side in Sigil. For example if I can not target them for some reason.

--


anyone have any insight on the list or the addition of emrakul (or some other 3rd wincondition) to the list? I'd like to keep the list GW instead of adding a 3rd splash for something like Words of War.
A 2nd Helm perhaps?

[Blastoderm]

.....
anyone have any insight on the list or the addition of emrakul (or some other 3rd wincondition) to the list? I'd like to keep the list GW instead of adding a 3rd splash for something like Words of War.
A 2nd Helm perhaps?

I would try to fit in the 3rd and 4th GSZ and remove the eidolon of blossoms. Also exploration seems meh since u play 20 lands. A 3rd Mirri's Guile or Sylvan Library would be great. 4 rest in peace seems too much.. I play 2 helm 3 RiP. Emrakul has been amazing for me as well.

[smudge2005]

I've been playing the U/G Combo Enchantress list the last couple of years and with Treasure Cruise becoming a popular card I thought I would switch my gears back into the the standard G/W version of Enchantress so I could play with Rest in Peace, this is the list I've been working playing around with since then, and i felt like I should post it hear hopefully helping some people out with card choices.

Draw Engine:
4 Argothian Enchantress
4 Enchantress's Presence
1 Eidolon of Blossoms

Creatures:
1 Courser of Kruphix
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

Enchantments:
4 Wild Growth
4 Utopia Sprawl
3 Elephant Grass
2 Mirri's Guile
4 Sterling Grove
3 Rest in Peace
1 Oblivion Ring
2 Solitary Confinement
1 Moat
1 Sigil of the Empty Throne

Artifacts:
1 Helm of Obedience

Sorcery's:
4 Green Sun's Zenith

Lands:
3 Serra's Sanctum
4 Windswept Heath
2 Horizon Canopy
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Karakas
2 Plains
6 Forest

Some Card Choices,

Eidolon of Blossoms - This card gives your Green Sun's Zenith's an extra target to search up, is a 2/4 that can block most creatures coming your way, doesn't die to lightning bolt and most burn spells, is an enchantment drawing you cards from Enchantress effects and gaining shroud from Sterling Grove , and can also set up amazing turns with Mirri's Guile in play.

Moat - I think this card is a much better choice in this format then Sphere of Safety game one, even with Delver of Secrets running around. You can get blown out of the waters by an elf's deck just paying for the Sphere of Safety or just be a turn to late of playing Sphere of Safety against a storm deck making tokens or a tribal deck.

Sterling Grove - My love for this card in the G/W version of enchantress well never stop making me play four copies of this card, for a two mana enchantment it give all other enchantments shroud, this stops your opponent from breaking up the core and lock pieces of the deck, and on top of that it also lets us search for an enchantment from are deck that makes finding core/lock and sideboards cards much easier.

Green Sun's Zenith - This card is your 10-13 Enchantress's, gives you a card draw from Eidolon of Blossoms if searched up, and is a much better choice to have instead of Enlightened Tutor, because you already have four enchantment search effects with Sterling Grove and you'll be drawing most of enchantment's form the Enchantress's you searched up.

Those are some of my opinions for the card choices of this deck, if you want more of my opinions for this deck of cards that are and aren't in it just ask, if you think my list is just shitty tell me why, so I can also improve on my list.

[jaydprickett]

Went 2-2 in a local 20 man that was put together to test do the upcoming Opens in Portland and Seattle. I picked up Endhantress recently and this was my first time actually playing the deck. Looking back I made some mistakes due to being brand new to the deck -

1. First upkeep after playing guile I didn't use it :laugh:
2. Playing fetch after dropping suppression field :laugh:

The list I played -

4 Argothian Enchantress
4 Enchantress's Presence
4 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Courser of Kruphix

4 Wild Growth
4 Utopia sprawl
3 Elephant Grass
3 Solitary Confinement
3 Suppression Field
3 Rest in Peace
3 Mirri's Guile
1 Banishing Light
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Emrakul the Aeons Torn
1 Helm of Obedience

4 Windswept Heath
4 Serra's Sanctum
8 Forest
1 Plains
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Savannah
1 Karakas

SB

4 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Swords to Plowshares
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Banishing Light
3 Stony Silence
1 Elephant Grass
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Reclamation Sage

Round 1- 4c Maverick (Punishing Fire, Black sideboard)

Game 1-2 - it was a very easy matchup. He had so many dead cards. Game 1 I helm comb him at 10 life after 1 Pridemage activation. Game 2 I combo him again through Pridemage, Teeg, and a cannonist. A couple of STPs helped. He didn't draw zealous persecution to take care of my argothians.

1-0

Round 2 - Death and Taxes

Game 1 - early Thalia slows me down but a timely Karakas allows me to chain some enchantments to helm combo him after he names sterling grove with revoker. :smile:

Game 2 - early Thalia slows me down and a Spirit of the labyrinth slams the door shut. No removal drawn. I get to sit behind confinement for awhile but I couldn't get ahead.

Game 3 - early Thalia (again!) slows me down. 2 ports locks me down.

1-1

Round 3 - BUG Delver

Game 1 - I mull to 5 and he wastes my only land (savannah). I don't get to play magic.

Game 2 - Mirri's Guile into Courser of Kruphix surprises him. I get engine going and combo him out with Helm.

Game 3 - I mull to 5 again! He actually has slow start but gets a goyf. Luckily I have double banishing light. He then proceeds to double thought seize and rides goyf to win.

1-2

Round 4 - Jeskai StoneBlade

Game 1 - Turn 2 suppression field after which he drops three fetches in a row :laugh:. He counters one enchantress effect but I eventually get combo going and win easily.

Game 2 - he gets early batter skull but I follow up with zenith for sage. Courser/Guile buys time as I set up helm combo.

2-2

Thoughts-

I had a very tough time side boarding. Besides suppression field it feels like everything is so important to the deck. I am fairly certain I side boarded wrong against D&T and lost because of it.

All stars-

The Engine
Rest in Pease
Mirri's Guile
Courser of Kruphix!

Courser was so good against those fair decks. From blocking, life gain, and little card advantage he was definitely worth it.

I really want a moat. Elephant Grass was very good but the upkeep can hurt if I didn't have the engine going. 1 moat will help a lot against all the fair decks. Can't be abrupt decayed etc.

Emrakul was dead a lot. Maybe just bad luck drawing him early a lot. Room for a 2nd helm might be needed. A few times against D&T especially I could of just killed him if I drew it.

Your thoughts?

[Redkid43]

I have good experience with Emrakul as my win condition. He/she/it? will almost always win you the game when it comes in to play. If your opponent cannot answer it with something like Karakas then they are doomed.

--

She. Remember-the Goddess Emeria was made in the false vision of Emrakul. In this case, it is a safe bet to say that Emrakul is female. /vorthos

I find that, a lot of the time, Helm/RiP is the easiest way to win. Most of my wins are just off of that more so than Emrakul anyways. But, Emrakul cam be a thing--especially in decks playing Exploration, since 2 Serra's Sanctum a turn can get enough mana to cast her.

[jaydprickett]

I find that, a lot of the time, Helm/RiP is the easiest way to win. Most of my wins are just off of that more so than Emrakul anyways. But, Emrakul cam be a thing--especially in decks playing Exploration, since 2 Serra's Sanctum a turn can get enough mana to cast her.

After my one day of playing the deck (:tongue:) I came to the same conclusion - Helm/RIP just seems really good. Additionally I finally understood why players where playing with Exploration. With only 20 lands I couldn't figure out why I would want it, but when the engine is going it is insanely good to play 2 lands a turn.

So I am going to test the following changes from the above list -

- 1 Enlightened Tutor
- 3 Suppression Field

+1 Helm of Obedience
+2 Exploration
+1 Forest

I like Suppression Field, it seems insanely good against D&T, but beyond that specific matchup it was a dead(ish) card most of the time. I think exploration will definitely speed up the deck a lot more. The +1 Forest will bring me to 21 lands which will help with mulligans (I mulliganed 4 times in 10 games) and with Exploration.

I still want to fit a Moat in, but since I don't have one I will worry about that at a later date. I plan on going to the Open in Seattle, any thoughts?

[The_Dingo]

Emrakul was dead a lot. Maybe just bad luck drawing him early a lot. Room for a 2nd helm might be needed. A few times against D&T especially I could of just killed him if I drew it.
Your thoughts?

Against DnT if I won G1 with helm of obedience I usually take it out g2 and g3 since revoker shuts it down. As you mentioned, Emrakul is best when played with some number of exploration.

[Redkid43]

I basically have one axiomatic opinion about Moat: Smoke if you got'em!

If you don't have access or the cash for it, Sphere of Safety is a good budget replacement.

[Rakadis]

Has anyone considered some of the HUGE green creatures that exist as finishers? Something like Worldspine Wurm? The thing is huge, shuffles and if it dies it clutters the board with even more threats. It can be countered and it is dead to bounce. But it is only 11 mana, and that amount can be reached in a few turns. Or Terastodon? Seems pretty good when your opponent cant attack us.

This is just the top of my head, and I am aware that most of these creatures can be countered, Plowed etc. But some more good win conditions would be nice. Our mana generation is, after all, quite insane.

And 200 pages! Congratulations everyone! :)

[Freggle]

Has anyone considered some of the HUGE green creatures that exist as finishers? Something like Worldspine Wurm? The thing is huge, shuffles and if it dies it clutters the board with even more threats. It can be countered and it is dead to bounce. But it is only 11 mana, and that amount can be reached in a few turns. Or Terastodon? Seems pretty good when your opponent cant attack us.

This is just the top of my head, and I am aware that most of these creatures can be countered, Plowed etc. But some more good win conditions would be nice. Our mana generation is, after all, quite insane.

And 200 pages! Congratulations everyone! :)

I'm of the opinion that the deck does not really need more win cons outside of attacking BGX decks from a different angle. Given that if I were to add more wincons that are not enchantments I would look at:

More Helms

Progenitus - via Green Suns or some spicy Natural Order Sideboard action

Sigarda

...200 pages. Cool!

[Redkid43]

Yay for 200!

I find that some decks opt to play Sigarda in their sideboard. Hoses Lili and a bunch of other randoms like Pox and Edicts.

[forestfold]

Yay for 200!

I find that some decks opt to play Sigarda in their sideboard. Hoses Lili and a bunch of other randoms like Pox and Edicts.

Annihilator. That's why I played her in modern for a while, makes Tron hilariously easy vs. control. Emrakul in our deck is such a big draw because it is uncounterable, so you can ignore Force of Will and it is immune to most of the played spot removal, making it practically inevitable unless your opponent has Karakas.

[Freggle]

Annihilator. That's why I played her in modern for a while, makes Tron hilariously easy vs. control. Emrakul in our deck is such a big draw because it is uncounterable, so you can ignore Force of Will and it is immune to most of the played spot removal, making it practically inevitable unless your opponent has Karakas.

I'm going to test Sigarda in the board as added fun vs. anihillator and Edicts. ...I wonder if it would be enough to close out BGx decks?

Also, even if your opponent has Karakas it shouldn't matter. If they bounce Emrakul you just recast on your extra turn.

[wcm8]

Just curious if anyone has tested 3-4 Choke in the maindeck? I see that there's a Green stompy deck that plays this and 3-4 Sylvan Library as well in the main to combat the Blue-heavy metagame we are currently in. Choke seems like it'd be a nice, one-sided "I Win" button against a fairly significant swath of the format. As an Enchantment and also with Solitary Confinement, multiples aren't exactly 'dead' to draw either.

[btm10]

Just curious if anyone has tested 3-4 Choke in the maindeck? I see that there's a Green stompy deck that plays this and 3-4 Sylvan Library as well in the main to combat the Blue-heavy metagame we are currently in. Choke seems like it'd be a nice, one-sided "I Win" button against a fairly significant swath of the format. As an Enchantment and also with Solitary Confinement, multiples aren't exactly 'dead' to draw either.

My preference has always been for Carpet of Flowers as the MD blue hoser, but Choke might be worthwhile to test.

Enchantress is absurdly well positioned right now, and it's even gotten a pretty solid piece of combo hate (in Brain Maggot) recently although the deck is well positioned precisely because combo is way, way down. I'm very happy with GWb as my color base, and don't see the core of the deck going anywhere anytime soon.

I'm currently running this, but I only just started with Enchantress again, so this is a rough pass based on the last time I played with the deck:

Lands
6 Forest
3 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Savannah
1 Bayou
2 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
2 Serra's Sanctum
1 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath

Business

1 Banishing Light
1 Carpet of Flowers
3 Elephant Grass
4 Enchantress's Presence
3 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Helm of Obedience
3 Mirri's Guile
1 Rest in Peace
2 Solitary Confinement
3 Sterling Grove
4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Wild Growth
1 Replenish
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn/1 Sigil of the Empty Throne

4 Argothian Enchantress
1 Courser of Kruphix
1 Eidolon of Blossoms

Sideboard
1 Brain Maggot
2 Rest in Peace
4 Thoughtseize
2 Banishing Light
1 Engineered Plague
1 Aura of Silence
3 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Carpet of Flowers

This may be overboard on combo hate, but it's where I'm starting. I've played a few matchups against UR Delver and UWr Pyroblade and I'm 7-2 overall so far, but only on Cockatrice. I'm pretty torn on Emrakul vs. Sigil, and I'll probably drop the Savannah for a Forest if I end up on Emrakul. Courser has been great so far.

[Redkid43]

Nykthos is interesting...how has it been for you?

[btm10]

I like it more than Sanctums 3 and 4. While chaining Sanctums has its merits, I like the ability to produce a burst of G and the fact that I'm less exposed to Wasteland (because I'm not Wasting myself to play a second Sanctum). On top of that, Nykthos produces colorless mana if you don't have anything else, and that's not trivial in opening hands.

There are tons of cards I'd like to have, particularly "hard" MD artifact and enchantment removal (I've historically run 1 MD Seal of Cleansing), the second Replenish, and the fourth SB Leyline but space is very tight. The current "chopping block" is:

Emrakul or Sigil
Courser
Eidolon

at this point, but I doubt that I will get to cutting Eidolon.

[Holiday]

I like it more than Sanctums 3 and 4. While chaining Sanctums has its merits, I like the ability to produce a burst of G and the fact that I'm less exposed to Wasteland (because I'm not Wasting myself to play a second Sanctum). On top of that, Nykthos produces colorless mana if you don't have anything else, and that's not trivial in opening hands.

I really like that idea! I'm def going to test this out. I always hated getting multiple sanctums in my hand on early turns or not being able to use it turn two if I couldn't put down an enchantment turn 1 for whatever reason.

[jaydprickett]

I am going to jam enchantress this weekend at the SCG Open in Seattle (Legacy IQ since we lost our Open status :cry:)

4x Enchantress’s Presence
4x Argothian Enchantress
4x Green Sun’s Zenith
1x Courser of Kruphix

4x Wild Growth
4x Utopia Sprawl

3x Rest in Peace
2x Helm of Obedience
1x Emrakul, The Aeon’s Torn

3x Elephant Grass
3x Mirri’s Guile
3x Solitary Confinement (1x Moat)
2x Exploration
1x Banishing Light

4x Serra’s Sanctum
4x Windswept Heath
1x Plains
1x Savannah
1x Karakas
1x Dryad Arbor
9x Forest

SB
4 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Stony Silence
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Banishing Light
1 Oblivion Ring
3 Swords to Plowshares
1 Elephant Grass

I am really happy with the list. My local group is pretty diverse and have been testing against the following - Jeskai Stoneblade, UR Delver, Sultai Delver, DeathnTaxes, Maverick, Miracles, Burn, and MUD.

None of the matchups feel unwinnable. No Suppression Field make DeathnTaxes tougher but I made the following changes -

-3 Suppression Field
+2 Exploration
+1 Forest (21st Land)

The Explorations have been very good. Yes they are bonkers when "going off" but also the early tempo provided have been nice to help get ahead a little bit. I really only miss Suppression Field against DeathnTaxes.

Besides not having a Moat I am pretty happy with the list.

Thoughts?

[btm10]

As I wrote above, I like some number of Nykthos over some number of Sanctums. I favor the 2/2 split, but 3/1 also seems reasonable. I actually think that Sphere of Safety is preferable to Moat unless you're concerned about beating Elves, but dropping Suppression Field makes me think that you aren't particularly concerned about that matchup. I'll be blunt about this last part - not running any Sterling Groves but having 3+ slots that do nothing but win (and really, I'd argue that the MD RiPs beyond the first are just redundant wincons as well) is wrong. Grove does so much for you, and frees up slots for 1-of bombs that solve major problems.

I'd make the following changes:

-1 GSZ
-2 Rest in Peace (move to SB for 1 Reclamation Sage, 1 Stony Silence)
-1 Helm of Obedience
-1 Solitary Confinement

+1 Sphere of Safety
+1 Replenish
+3 Sterling Grove

There's also an argument for MD Seal of Primordium, Seal of Cleansing, Aura of Silence, Banishing Light, or Eidolon of Blossoms over a land. Looking more closely at your manabase, I'd definitely cut at least one Forest for one Plains.

[jaydprickett]

As I wrote above, I like some number of Nykthos over some number of Sanctums. I favor the 2/2 split, but 3/1 also seems reasonable. I actually think that Sphere of Safety is preferable to Moat unless you're concerned about beating Elves, but dropping Suppression Field makes me think that you aren't particularly concerned about that matchup. I'll be blunt about this last part - not running any Sterling Groves but having 3+ slots that do nothing but win (and really, I'd argue that the MD RiPs beyond the first are just redundant wincons as well) is wrong. Grove does so much for you, and frees up slots for 1-of bombs that solve major problems.

I'd make the following changes:

-1 GSZ
-2 Rest in Peace (move to SB for 1 Reclamation Sage, 1 Stony Silence)
-1 Helm of Obedience
-1 Solitary Confinement

+1 Sphere of Safety
+1 Replenish
+3 Sterling Grove

There's also an argument for MD Seal of Primordium, Seal of Cleansing, Aura of Silence, Banishing Light, or Eidolon of Blossoms over a land. Looking more closely at your manabase, I'd definitely cut at least one Forest for one Plains.

Good Points. I have gone back and forth between Moat/Sphere and I think I like Moat more. 1 mana less is a big deal, Delver can be a problem but I like Moat because you can drop Moat early and it just works, Sphere can be dead sometimes if your game plan isn't going well. It is a close call.

I am in the camp that doesn't like sterling grove. I had enlightened tutor for the longest time and eventually cut it. Everytime I drew it I wished it was something else (that didn't take a mana/draw step to become). I added the 2nd Helm because a lot of my matches would have just ended with me winning if I drew Helm. It seems with only 1 helm and Emrakul it just takes forever to actually win the game that things go wrong. A lot of the grindier matches like DeathnTaxes and Maverick hinged on my finding Helm, though I suppose that it could go back to being enlightened tutor?

If did go down to 1 RiP I would run Replenish but as it stands I like 3 RiP as it hurts a lot of archetypes out there.

Thanks for the suggestions, I will report on Monday/Tuesday.

[Freggle]

I am going to jam enchantress this weekend at the SCG Open in Seattle (Legacy IQ since we lost our Open status :cry:)

4x Enchantress’s Presence
4x Argothian Enchantress
4x Green Sun’s Zenith
1x Courser of Kruphix

4x Wild Growth
4x Utopia Sprawl

3x Rest in Peace
2x Helm of Obedience
1x Emrakul, The Aeon’s Torn

3x Elephant Grass
3x Mirri’s Guile
3x Solitary Confinement (1x Moat)
2x Exploration
1x Banishing Light

4x Serra’s Sanctum
4x Windswept Heath
1x Plains
1x Savannah
1x Karakas
1x Dryad Arbor
9x Forest

SB
4 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Stony Silence
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Banishing Light
1 Oblivion Ring
3 Swords to Plowshares
1 Elephant Grass

I am really happy with the list. My local group is pretty diverse and have been testing against the following - Jeskai Stoneblade, UR Delver, Sultai Delver, DeathnTaxes, Maverick, Miracles, Burn, and MUD.

None of the matchups feel unwinnable. No Suppression Field make DeathnTaxes tougher but I made the following changes -

-3 Suppression Field
+2 Exploration
+1 Forest (21st Land)

The Explorations have been very good. Yes they are bonkers when "going off" but also the early tempo provided have been nice to help get ahead a little bit. I really only miss Suppression Field against DeathnTaxes.

Besides not having a Moat I am pretty happy with the list.

Thoughts?

I look forward to reading your report. For those of you playing with Courser of Kruphix when do you Green Sun's for it and when do you not? ...and what value does it provide to the overall deck?

I'm not trying to imply that there is no value I'm trying to understand how people play with it. I can see it staving off some ground attacks so that's good, and the Guile interaction is nice.

[Sevryn]

For those playing a black splash, why are you not running darkest hour?

[Redkid43]

Besides being a 1 mana enchantment...Darkest Hours does really nothing for us.

It doesn't produce multiple mana, let us fix our draws, or lets us play lands....just makes all creatures black.

Since the meta has kind of evened out lately...I've decided to switch back to a more traditional GW build. It's been fun Doomwake-ing people off the face of the planet.

For those running Courser...how has he been? I imagine he has been doing all sorts of work with Exploration...but I seem to like Eidolon over him. However, both would be nice. But 7 Creatures seems like a lot...perhaps siding in Eidolon against control...?

[Sevryn]

Besides being a 1 mana enchantment...Darkest Hours does really nothing for us.

It doesn't produce multiple mana, let us fix our draws, or lets us play lands....just makes all creatures black.


Making all creatures black is pretty strong with elephant grass I would think. Not even worth a 1 of?

[Redkid43]

DERp.


I think that interaction is cute, but it is strong.

[honz]

For those running Courser...how has he been? I imagine he has been doing all sorts of work with Exploration...but I seem to like Eidolon over him. However, both would be nice. But 7 Creatures seems like a lot...perhaps siding in Eidolon against control...?

I think the main issue with courser is that people think of it as a gsz target, where it really isn't. Eidolon is just a better grab with gsz every single time, as it simply provides more card advantage. I really want to like courser, but it is just a worse enchantress. And unless you are already running the full 16 enchantresses (4 argothian, 4 presence, 4 gsz, 4 eidolon), I can't see any reason to play it. "drawing" extra lands off the top is just worse than actually drawing extra cards by having an enchantress in play.

I think there is a deck to be made with mirris guile/sylvan library + exploration + courser (and probably loam), but this is not it.