[Deck] Solitaire (Enchantress)

[jaydprickett]

I ended up going 5-3 and only lost to my worst matchups. I had a blast playing Enchantress and going forward I will continue to play it, it is just so much fun to play. I played the exact 75 I posted above and will make some changes but here is a report -

Round 1 DeathnTaxes (Lost 1-2)

Game 1 - I lose die roll and he goes turn 2 Thalia, Turn 3 Spirit of the Lab and Vial in a Containment Priest (1 main deck) in response to a green sun's, needless to say I lost.

SB wise I take out Helm combo, bring in Stony Silence, STPs, and another Elephant Grass

Game 2 - I drop an early Stony Silence after he stoneforges for Sword of Fire and Ice, and the then dejectedly drops a ratchet bomb. I assemble a few Enchantress cards and engine into Emrakul.

Game 3 - We only had 6 mintues left but came out vast with Vial into Thalia and 2 Flickerwisp. I couldn't hold on.

0-1

Round 2 - Jeskai Stoneblade (Won 2-0)

Game 1 & 2 - Games are pretty easy, he countered maybe 1 or 2 early Enchantresses but his clock isn't particularly fast. I beat him fairly easy. Game 1 Helm Combo, Game 2 Emrakul.

1-1

Round 3 - Enchantress (Won 2-0)

Found out that neither of us have played the mirror before.

Game 1 - After we both laugh after going Forest -> Wild Growth, I have a gameplan, don't drop Rest in Peace unless I can win that turn. It works out as he proceeds to drop Rest in Peace first, I untap and Helm him out.

My SB strategy is to side out Helm combo and bring in 4 leylines so he can't helm me and then has some dead cards.

Game 2 - We laugh again as he drops 2 Leylines and I drop 1 Turn 0. My strategy works again as he starts playing dead Rest in Peaces. He as a really good turn drawing a lot of cards but has to pass. I have 3 Enchantress effects out, I play Emrakul but he has 12+ permanents and is at 19 life. I don't want to swing once and pass the turn as he may just drop an O Ring and I won't be able to win. My deck is getting low but I go for it and dig for a Karakas to lock up the win.

2-1

Round 4 Storm (Lost 0-2)

ugh

Game 1 - Nothing to do as he combos me out turn 3.

Game 2 - This is how bad our storm matchup is - My board is Gaddock Teeg, 2 Leyline of Sanctity, and a Stony Silence. He proceeds to combo me out anyway. The problem is even if we get a good lock down it's hard to pressure fast enough to kill them.

2-2

Round 5 4c Delver (Won 2-0)

I wish I could just play Delver all day :)

Game 1 - Again he attempts to slow me down but with only a couple of deathrites he has to watch me combo out with Helm.

Game 2 - Same as game 1.

3-2

Round 6 Manaless Dredge (Won 2-0)

I felt a little bad as I played next to him earlier, so I won the dire roll and chose to go 2nd :)

Game 1 - He had never seen Enchantress before. He had an early window to dredge a few times and made 4 zombies before I blocked with Dryad Arbor to kill Bridges. After an Elephant Grass into Rest in Peace (Maindeck! he cried!) he scooped.

Game 2 - Turn 0 Leyline shut off Cabal Therapy and other lock pieces and closes game out.

4-2

Round 7 Storm (Lost 1-2)

UGH

Game 1 - He wasn't sure if I had Gaddock Teeg main so he went for an early Empty the Warrens for 14, he flashbacks a Therapy on Elephant Grass and I couldn't find another.

Game 2 - He mulligans to 5 and does nothing, so that's how we beat Storm!

Game 3 - I have turn 2 options of Zenith for Gaddock Teeg or Stony Silence, he proceeds to combo me his turn 2....

4-3

Round 8 Enchantress (again!) (Won 2-1)

Mirror match twice is crazy! And quite fun!

Game 1 - Basically who can get more Enchantress effects wins. I out draw him and Helm him out.

Game 2 - At one point he has 4 Argothians out, so I lose.

Game 3 - I Banishing Light/O Ring 2 Utopia Sprawls in a row to slow him down, I win with Emrakul awhile later.

5-3

Thoughts

It was crazy to play the Mirror twice, but maybe it shows Enchantress was a good decision. Unfortunately Storm is a miserable matchup and I hit it twice. Delver matchups are a breeze, wish I could play them all day. I was really happy with the deck and would definitely play Enchantress again.

Card notes -

Courser of Kruphix - In response to a few points on previous posts, i would never Green Sun's for this guy. He is just here for value. Against 1 Delver opponent I had Mirri's Guile and after he Dazed my Presence I just dropped Courser for insane value until I could get going. That being said it is a flex spot. Eidolon is fine, but none of my games got to a point where I wouldn't just Zenith for another Argothian first. The flex spot may just become another utility enchantment.

4 Green Sun's and 4 Serra's Sanctum - These 2 cards are the case of you don't want to draw the 3rd or 4th one, but you reallllly want to draw the 1st and 2nd one. Know what I mean? This deck is so reliant on Enchantress effects that I think I will stick with 4 Green Sun's. Same with the 4th Sanctum I really want 2 Sanctum so I can generate absurd mana. Wasteland being prevalant I will keep 4.

Exploration- Insane all day. This card is so good. From catching up or getting a little ahead early to blowing them out with double sanctum i always wanted 1, but just 1 so I will stay at 2.

Suppression Field - Would of been only relevant versus DeathnTaxes, but with Stony Silence I felt ok leaving it out, and will probably keep it out.

SB Thoughts

4 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Stony Silence
3 Swords to Plowshares
1 Elephant Grass
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Banishing Light
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Reclamation Sage

My sideboard will go through some changes. i think Humility deserves a spot. I would definitely like Humility versus the hatebear decks, with incidental hate for Sneak & Show/Reanimator. I almost want the 4th Grass main deck. I like the idea of chaining Elephant Grass, plus everyone and their mom goes for Batterskull now.

I will post my updated list later.

[The_Dingo]

I ended up going 5-3 and only lost to my worst matchups. I had a blast playing Enchantress and going forward I will continue to play it, it is just so much fun to play. I played the exact 75 I posted above and will make some changes but here is a report -

Round 1 DeathnTaxes (Lost 1-2)

Game 1 - I lose die roll and he goes turn 2 Thalia, Turn 3 Spirit of the Lab and Vial in a Containment Priest (1 main deck) in response to a green sun's, needless to say I lost.

SB wise I take out Helm combo, bring in Stony Silence, STPs, and another Elephant Grass

Game 2 - I drop an early Stony Silence after he stoneforges for Sword of Fire and Ice, and the then dejectedly drops a ratchet bomb. I assemble a few Enchantress cards and engine into Emrakul.

Game 3 - We only had 6 mintues left but came out vast with Vial into Thalia and 2 Flickerwisp. I couldn't hold on.

0-1

Round 2 - Jeskai Stoneblade (Won 2-0)

Game 1 & 2 - Games are pretty easy, he countered maybe 1 or 2 early Enchantresses but his clock isn't particularly fast. I beat him fairly easy. Game 1 Helm Combo, Game 2 Emrakul.

1-1

Round 3 - Enchantress (Won 2-0)

Found out that neither of us have played the mirror before.

Game 1 - After we both laugh after going Forest -> Wild Growth, I have a gameplan, don't drop Rest in Peace unless I can win that turn. It works out as he proceeds to drop Rest in Peace first, I untap and Helm him out.

My SB strategy is to side out Helm combo and bring in 4 leylines so he can't helm me and then has some dead cards.

Game 2 - We laugh again as he drops 2 Leylines and I drop 1 Turn 0. My strategy works again as he starts playing dead Rest in Peaces. He as a really good turn drawing a lot of cards but has to pass. I have 3 Enchantress effects out, I play Emrakul but he has 12+ permanents and is at 19 life. I don't want to swing once and pass the turn as he may just drop an O Ring and I won't be able to win. My deck is getting low but I go for it and dig for a Karakas to lock up the win.

2-1

Round 4 Storm (Lost 0-2)

ugh

Game 1 - Nothing to do as he combos me out turn 3.

Game 2 - This is how bad our storm matchup is - My board is Gaddock Teeg, 2 Leyline of Sanctity, and a Stony Silence. He proceeds to combo me out anyway. The problem is even if we get a good lock down it's hard to pressure fast enough to kill them.

2-2

Round 5 4c Delver (Won 2-0)

I wish I could just play Delver all day :)

Game 1 - Again he attempts to slow me down but with only a couple of deathrites he has to watch me combo out with Helm.

Game 2 - Same as game 1.

3-2

Round 6 Manaless Dredge (Won 2-0)

I felt a little bad as I played next to him earlier, so I won the dire roll and chose to go 2nd :)

Game 1 - He had never seen Enchantress before. He had an early window to dredge a few times and made 4 zombies before I blocked with Dryad Arbor to kill Bridges. After an Elephant Grass into Rest in Peace (Maindeck! he cried!) he scooped.

Game 2 - Turn 0 Leyline shut off Cabal Therapy and other lock pieces and closes game out.

4-2

Round 7 Storm (Lost 1-2)

UGH

Game 1 - He wasn't sure if I had Gaddock Teeg main so he went for an early Empty the Warrens for 14, he flashbacks a Therapy on Elephant Grass and I couldn't find another.

Game 2 - He mulligans to 5 and does nothing, so that's how we beat Storm!

Game 3 - I have turn 2 options of Zenith for Gaddock Teeg or Stony Silence, he proceeds to combo me his turn 2....

4-3

Round 8 Enchantress (again!) (Won 2-1)

Mirror match twice is crazy! And quite fun!

Game 1 - Basically who can get more Enchantress effects wins. I out draw him and Helm him out.

Game 2 - At one point he has 4 Argothians out, so I lose.

Game 3 - I Banishing Light/O Ring 2 Utopia Sprawls in a row to slow him down, I win with Emrakul awhile later.

5-3

Thoughts

It was crazy to play the Mirror twice, but maybe it shows Enchantress was a good decision. Unfortunately Storm is a miserable matchup and I hit it twice. Delver matchups are a breeze, wish I could play them all day. I was really happy with the deck and would definitely play Enchantress again.

Card notes -

Courser of Kruphix - In response to a few points on previous posts, i would never Green Sun's for this guy. He is just here for value. Against 1 Delver opponent I had Mirri's Guile and after he Dazed my Presence I just dropped Courser for insane value until I could get going. That being said it is a flex spot. Eidolon is fine, but none of my games got to a point where I wouldn't just Zenith for another Argothian first. The flex spot may just become another utility enchantment.

4 Green Sun's and 4 Serra's Sanctum - These 2 cards are the case of you don't want to draw the 3rd or 4th one, but you reallllly want to draw the 1st and 2nd one. Know what I mean? This deck is so reliant on Enchantress effects that I think I will stick with 4 Green Sun's. Same with the 4th Sanctum I really want 2 Sanctum so I can generate absurd mana. Wasteland being prevalant I will keep 4.

Exploration- Insane all day. This card is so good. From catching up or getting a little ahead early to blowing them out with double sanctum i always wanted 1, but just 1 so I will stay at 2.

Suppression Field - Would of been only relevant versus DeathnTaxes, but with Stony Silence I felt ok leaving it out, and will probably keep it out.

SB Thoughts

4 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Stony Silence
3 Swords to Plowshares
1 Elephant Grass
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Banishing Light
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Reclamation Sage

My sideboard will go through some changes. i think Humility deserves a spot. I would definitely like Humility versus the hatebear decks, with incidental hate for Sneak & Show/Reanimator. I almost want the 4th Grass main deck. I like the idea of chaining Elephant Grass, plus everyone and their mom goes for Batterskull now.

I will post my updated list later.

Good run, glad to hear you enjoyed the deck!

I agree wholeheartedly with your thoughts on exploration. You definitely want to see one, but it gives diminishing returns on copy 2 and 3.

Two enchantress mirrors in one event is just plain crazy!

[Freggle]

Your Quote.

Nice Run! ...thank you for the report. 2 mirrors is epic and exciting. It appears that there is a level to this version of enchantress is a 5 to 6-x deck that needs some more brewing to get over the next hurdle.

Knows the deck has issues with:

D&T
Combo -- TES, ANT, Elves, Tell decks ...


From what I know from playing Enchantress and seeing what others have adjusted/cut to tune the deck to their liking I decided to challenge the philosophy of the GW build ever so slightly to try and gain more edge in the known poor MUS.

I built the list below and went 6-0 in preliminary testing tonight [MTGO Tournament Practice] only running into (2) combo decks (A strange Altar of Brood deck and Omnitell) The sample size is small but promising.

First the controversial list:

4 Enchantress’s Presence
4 Argothian Enchantress
4 Green Sun’s Zenith
1 Enlightened Tutor

4 Wild Growth
4 Utopia Sprawl

3 Rest in Peace
1 Helm of Obedience
1 Emrakul, The Aeons Torn

4 Elephant Grass
3 Mirri’s Guile
3 Solitary Confinement
1 Exploration
2 Banishing Light

4 Serra’s Sanctum
4 Windswept Heath
1 Plains
1 Karakas
11 Forest

SB
4 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Eidolon of Rhetoric
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Oblivion Ring
3 Swords to Plowshares
1 Helm of Obedience
1 Rest in Peace
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons

The Maindeck concept remains the same. Tempo and force your way through to victory and rely on Elephant Grass & Confinement to help you stall until you get there.

The boarding Strategy is a bit different. Previously fight combo I would board something like:

-2 RIP
-1 Elephant Grass
-1 Confinement
-3 Suppression Field
-1 Helm (Gaddock Locks out)

+4 Leyline
+3 Stony
+1 Gaddock

...this configuration would allow me to win ~ 50% of the ANT and TES MUs, but left little tools for other combo.

Prior to Dig Through time build of High Tide Gaddock was pretty effective too, however since then and High Tide has moved to instant speed, and did not rely on Candelabra or Top at all the MU got much harder.

Elves also started to adopt Reclamation Sage, and with the bounce ability of Wirewood Symbiote that has proven to be devastating.

Which lead me to this thought again. ...are we trying to hate out too much and have lost our focus on winning? There have been many games where I have a combo deck locked out for several turns, but could not close the game in time because the only win left in the deck. This gave my opponent time to eventually wiggle out of the soft lock and win.

New Board Strat (pending combo variant TES/ ANT below) something like:

-2 Banishing light
-1 Exploration
-2 Elephant Grass
-3 confinement
-1 Emrakul

+3 Eidolon of Rhetoric
+1 RIP
+4 Leyline of Sanctity
+1 Helm

The new philosophy is similar, but different. Playing only (1) spell a turn is a way (Eidilon of Rhetoric's ability) is a way many people have tried to hate on enchantress, but strangely that sin't enough to bring the deck down. Since we can defend ourselves well with single impactful cards (i.e. E. Grass and Confinement) slowing us to (1) spell isn't a significant drawback. As a matter of fact since we get to draw and play impactful enchantments I would go as far as to say we have the edge.

When you add in library manipulation of Guile, and shuffle effects of GSZ and fetches we actually can find hate / wins better than most combo opponents can dig out of that spot. Eidolon also profitably blocks Dark Confidant and Young Pyromancer out of some TES boards until we can assemble RIP Helm. Assembling RIP / Helm is fairly easy post board with 3 guile, 1 Enlightened Tutor, 4 RIP, 2 Helm ...and 4 Sanctum to ramp it out fast. It has been surprisingly effective.

Thoughts?

[jaydprickett]

Great minds think alike! After IQ I was debating if Rule of Law was worth it. It slows us down but I think slowing them down is way more important. Stony Silence is nice but by locking out our Helms it slowed us down to much. I like your list and will be jamming this on Saturday at our local Legacy -

4x Enchantress’s Presence
4x Argothian Enchantress
4x Green Sun’s Zenith

4x Wild Growth
4x Utopia Sprawl

3x Rest in Peace
1x Helm of Obedience
1x Emrakul, The Aeon’s Torn
1x Enlightened Tutor

4x Elephant Grass
3x Mirri’s Guile
2x Solitary Confinement
2x Exploration
1x Moat
1x Banishing Light

4x Serra’s Sanctum
4x Windswept Heath
1x Plains
1x Savannah
1x Karakas
1x Dryad Arbor
9x Forest

SB
4 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Eidolon of Rhetoric
3 Swords to Plowshares
1 Rest in Peace
1 Helm of Obedience
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Humility

I made a few changes from your list -

-2 Forest
+1 Dryad Arbor
+1 Savannah

I like the extra white source available when not playing against Wasteland. Dryad Arbor can be awesome or awful depending. I like having another way to get 3 mana turn 2. It's bad when I want to draw another land for mana that turn but draw Arbor. I will keep testing it.

-1 Solitary
+1 Moat

I'm running Humility SB so the Moat/Humility lock is a thing against D&T/Elves. Not a huge change.

-1 Banishing Light
+1 Exploration

You are probably right in adding a 2nd removal spell. I may be overvaluing Exploration. I will test this some more.

-1 Sigarda
+1 Humility

I have come to like Humility against our 2 worst creature matchups (D&T/Elves). Please let me know how Sigarda does as a clock for you.

I will post some results this weekend as well.

[Hoojo]

Why Eidolon of Rhetoric and not just straight Rule of Law? I would think a 1/4 blocker wouldn't be that relevant in the Storm matchup.

[jaydprickett]

Why Eidolon of Rhetoric and not just straight Rule of Law? I would think a 1/4 blocker wouldn't be that relevant in the Storm matchup.

What's the downside of a creature? Eidolon is better versus Elves as a blocker. And as stated above some storm decks side into Young Pyro etc. Storm plays Abrupt Decay which kills both anyway.

[Scott]

Why Eidolon of Rhetoric and not just straight Rule of Law? I would think a 1/4 blocker wouldn't be that relevant in the Storm matchup.


What's the downside of a creature? Eidolon is better versus Elves as a blocker. And as stated above some storm decks side into Young Pyro etc. Storm plays Abrupt Decay which kills both anyway.

Because of the lack of relevant creature removal in the match ups in which it would come in, Eidolon of Rhetoric provides a slight upside vs. Rule of Law, unless your build brings in both Rule of Law and Humility against Elves, in which case stick with Rule of Law in the SB.

[Freggle]

Why Eidolon of Rhetoric and not just straight Rule of Law? I would think a 1/4 blocker wouldn't be that relevant in the Storm matchup.

Others covered it, but also keep in mind most storm decks run Duress and this cannot be taken with a Duress. In the end if this proves to be the correct route to take maybe a mix of them would be the most correct. That way it's almost certain that at least 1 stays on the battlefield at all times.

As for the revamped list it's not all roses. I tested again last night, but did not have a stellar record. (If I remember I will look at my history and report back what it was) but it was Even to loosing. I wasn't playing tight though as well.

A couple of matches featured MOM and Suppression field would have turned it around. I'm certain of it. Maybe the key is finding a way to somehow keep Fields and find room for Eidolon of Rhetoric.

Edit:

Sigarda is a nod to the BGx decks. Although I have not come across one since having her in the board.

[The_Dingo]

I've been off the helm/rip plan for the last several weeks. I feel like the value of RiP declined greatly when the meta where I play moved strongly away from shardless and BUG delver. So I am on a good old fashioned replenish style plan, partly because it's good all by itself and partly to abuse the synergy between replenish and eidolon of blossoms/doomwake giant. Doomwake looks flimsy on the surface, but he has won me matches in all sorts of tricky situations, and is way better than I thought he would actually be. Here's my decklist, any sort of commentary or feedback is welcome, as always.


1 Bayou
1 Dryad Arbor
7 Forest
1 Karakas
1 Nykthos, shrine to nyx
1 Plains
1 Savannah
3 Serra's Sanctum
4 Windswept Heath

4 Argothian Enchantress
1 Doomwake Giant
1 Eidolon of Blossoms
1 Emrakul, the aeons torn

3 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Replenish

4 Elephant Grass
4 Enchantresses presence
1 Exploration
2 Mirri's Guile
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Sigil of the empty throne
3 Solitary Confinement
2 Suppression Field
3 Sterling grove
3 Wild Growth
4 Utopia Sprawl

4 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Swords to Plowshares
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Melira, sylvok outcast
1 reclamation sage
2 Rest in Peace
1 Grafdigger's cage
1 Humility
1 Suppression Field

[garyrocks]

Abundant Growth may make Words of Wind worth another look. Does just 1 Abundant Growth fuel a Words of Wind continuously? Wouldn't even need an enchantress to bounce them out.

Would also make 3 colors easy with Utopia Sprawl.

[honz]

Abundant Growth may make Words of Wind worth another look. Does just 1 Abundant Growth fuel a Words of Wind continuously? Wouldn't even need an enchantress to bounce them out.

With no enchantress in play, abundant growth + words of wind reads: 1G: each opponent returns a permanent to their hand. While this may sound good, unless you can activate it 3+ times a turn, you arn't really gaining any ground. And if you have 6+ mana and no enchantress in play, you have already lost the game.

I usually run a blue splash for energy field and sometimes run words of wind. The main interaction I found with words is with an enchantress in play, and 2x wild growth / utopia sprawl. You alternate playing 1 growth, bouncing the other, and just go on down your line of lands. So your opponent has to return permanents equal to the # of lands you have (plus sanctum mana and any other things you wanna return). Things obviously get more complicated with explorations and more enchantresses.

I find words of wind to be a winmore. Since the best card on the board is the last card to get bounced, you basically have to bounce everything (i.e. 6+ activations). If you are in the position to be be getting 6+ activations, you should already be winning.

[bwood]

I have been splashing blue as well for Energy Field instead of solitary confinement. I feel like RIP helps out against so many matchups as well as being part of one of our wincons that we should almost always have one in play. That makes Energy Field better than Solitary.

10 Forest
1 Karakas
1 Plains
3 Serra's Sanctum
2 Tropical Island
4 Windswept Heath

4 Argothian Enchantress
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

1 Banishing Light
3 Elephant Grass
4 Enchantress's Presence
3 Energy Field
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Exploration
4 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Helm of Obedience
3 Mirri's Guile
3 Rest in Peace
2 Suppression Field
4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Wild Growth

Sideboard:

3 Eidolon of Rhetoric
1 Helm of Obedience
4 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Oblivion Ring
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Rest in Peace
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
2 Swords to Plowshares

Anyway, since I am splashing blue I have been searching for other blue cards that might help the deck. I just took a quick look through 2cmc enchantments and didn't see anything too promising. The only thing that could have potential is Trade Routes. Could be used to double up a single Serra's Sanctum or dump all the extra lands we draw when we start stringing enchantress effects. I think I will throw a couple in and do some testing. Does anyone that splashes blue use any other blue cards other than Energy Field?

[Scott]

Does anyone that splashes blue use any other blue cards other than Energy Field?

Detention Sphere, In the Eye of Chaos, and Back to Basics are contenders.

[jaydprickett]

Went 3-0-1 at our local yesterday. I beat Zombardment, Burn, and BUG Delver. Drew against Grixis Painter. Detailed report tomorrow.

[Redkid43]

Bant is appealing for Energy Field and In the Eye of Chaos. However, Eye dies to Abrupt Decay. :(

I'm working on a different list altogether and I have no idea if it'll work. I'll post once finished...

I think that RIP/Helm is nesscary. People are out delving each other and graveyard decks like Reanimator are on the rise because of the lack of DRS.

[jaydprickett]

Went 3-0-1 at our local yesterday. I beat Zombardment, Burn, and BUG Delver. Drew against Grixis Painter. Detailed report tomorrow.

Round 1 Zombardment (Won 2-0)

Game 1 & 2 - Both games played out the same. He would discard 1 or 2 early enchantress effects. Elephant Grass/Rest in Peace stopped him cold until I could land more Enchantresses. Seems like a great match up for us.

Round 2 Burn (Won 2-1)

Game 1 - He drops an early Eidolon of the Great Revel and rides it to victory. That card is very good against us.

Game 2 - He drops turn 1 Goblin Guide and I have a STP BUT I really want to save it for Eidolon. He gets me down to 10ish before I find an Eidolon of Rhetoric to block the Goblin Guide, next he drops Eidolon of the Great Revel, and I STP. Best slow roll STP ever! I land Solitary Confinement the next turn and lock him out at 6 life.

Game 3 - Turn 0 Leyline blanks him. This game was never close but was very funny. I sided out Emrakul so I had to dig for my 1 Helm of Obedience. At one point I am drawing 5 cards off every enchantment. The Helm of Obedience was the second card from the bottom :laugh: Although the game was never close it was quite funny to the both of us.

Round 3 Grixis Painter (Draw 1-1-1)

This round featured one of my favorite games ever with this deck and one of my dumbest moments

Game 1 - Preface by saying Game 1 took 40 minutes to complete! He lands turn 1 Top and turn 2 Counterbalance. The next 39 minutes was me trying to diversify the spells I cast to land what I could through counterbalance. Finally landed a few enchantresses so even though he was countering a lot I was still drawing cards. He lands Painters Servant at some point and I sit safely behind Solitary Confinement. He is brainstorming every turn with Jace. I finally land Emrakul. I swing and put him to 1 life. He still keeps up Painter with 2 cards in hand. If I pass the turn there is always the chance he can Grindstone me out. So go for it and continue to draw cards to find Helm/RIP and beat after 40 minutes. He shows me if he could untap (even after saccing 6 permanents) he would Pyroblast my Solitary and combo me out.

Game 2 - My punt of all punts This game goes quickly as he naturally Painter/Grindstone's me on his turn 5....and I scoop! Why did I scoop when Emrakul would of shuffled my graveyard back into my library, ummm because I'm simple! I just completely forgot about that interaction.

Game 3 - Round times out and we can't kill each other in time.

Round 4 BUG Delver (Won 2-1)

The one Delver deck that actually has game against us, if they land early threat and back it up with Thoughtseize, Abrupt Decay, and FOW, then they can beat us

Game 1 - He does the above. He lands Tarmogoyf early and rides Abrupt Decay, Daze, FOW, and Thoughtseize to victory.

Game 2 - He does the above but without a threat. He Ponders turn 1 and turn 2 and does find Thoughtseize etc. But with no fast threat I eventually get my engine going and win.

Game 3 - A pretty good game, we go back and forth with disruption/threats and I eventually combo him out.

Review

Local tournaments are what they are but I was glad how well the deck performed. My brain fart may have cost me round 3. I still could of lost if I drew Emrakul at some point but we will never know. I am really liking the list. I don't plan on changing anything at the moment going forward.

[Freggle]

Round 1 Zombardment (Won 2-0)

Game 1 & 2 - Both games played out the same. He would discard 1 or 2 early enchantress effects. Elephant Grass/Rest in Peace stopped him cold until I could land more Enchantresses. Seems like a great match up for us.

Round 2 Burn (Won 2-1)

Game 1 - He drops an early Eidolon of the Great Revel and rides it to victory. That card is very good against us.

Game 2 - He drops turn 1 Goblin Guide and I have a STP BUT I really want to save it for Eidolon. He gets me down to 10ish before I find an Eidolon of Rhetoric to block the Goblin Guide, next he drops Eidolon of the Great Revel, and I STP. Best slow roll STP ever! I land Solitary Confinement the next turn and lock him out at 6 life.

Game 3 - Turn 0 Leyline blanks him. This game was never close but was very funny. I sided out Emrakul so I had to dig for my 1 Helm of Obedience. At one point I am drawing 5 cards off every enchantment. The Helm of Obedience was the second card from the bottom :laugh: Although the game was never close it was quite funny to the both of us.

Round 3 Grixis Painter (Draw 1-1-1)

This round featured one of my favorite games ever with this deck and one of my dumbest moments

Game 1 - Preface by saying Game 1 took 40 minutes to complete! He lands turn 1 Top and turn 2 Counterbalance. The next 39 minutes was me trying to diversify the spells I cast to land what I could through counterbalance. Finally landed a few enchantresses so even though he was countering a lot I was still drawing cards. He lands Painters Servant at some point and I sit safely behind Solitary Confinement. He is brainstorming every turn with Jace. I finally land Emrakul. I swing and put him to 1 life. He still keeps up Painter with 2 cards in hand. If I pass the turn there is always the chance he can Grindstone me out. So go for it and continue to draw cards to find Helm/RIP and beat after 40 minutes. He shows me if he could untap (even after saccing 6 permanents) he would Pyroblast my Solitary and combo me out.

Game 2 - My punt of all punts This game goes quickly as he naturally Painter/Grindstone's me on his turn 5....and I scoop! Why did I scoop when Emrakul would of shuffled my graveyard back into my library, ummm because I'm simple! I just completely forgot about that interaction.

Game 3 - Round times out and we can't kill each other in time.

Round 4 BUG Delver (Won 2-1)

The one Delver deck that actually has game against us, if they land early threat and back it up with Thoughtseize, Abrupt Decay, and FOW, then they can beat us

Game 1 - He does the above. He lands Tarmogoyf early and rides Abrupt Decay, Daze, FOW, and Thoughtseize to victory.

Game 2 - He does the above but without a threat. He Ponders turn 1 and turn 2 and does find Thoughtseize etc. But with no fast threat I eventually get my engine going and win.

Game 3 - A pretty good game, we go back and forth with disruption/threats and I eventually combo him out.

Review

Local tournaments are what they are but I was glad how well the deck performed. My brain fart may have cost me round 3. I still could of lost if I drew Emrakul at some point but we will never know. I am really liking the list. I don't plan on changing anything at the moment going forward.

Nice run. Painter is a very positive MU because of Emrakul (board out RIP) I made the same mistake the first day I played the deck with Emrakul, but now you will not forget. Happy holidays to all out there.

[Pizzatog]

Detention Sphere, In the Eye of Chaos, and Back to Basics are contenders.

I love Words of Wind.

WUG Enchantress with Words of Wind was my pet extended deck way back (I'd say at least 10 years ago.)

[Bed Decks Palyer]

In the Eye of Chaos is really pretty. 9 mana Ancestrals are far less impressive.

This is what I'm tinkering with:

Qty Name
1 Plains
4 Windswept Heath
1 Savannah
1 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
3 Serra's Sanctum
1 Dryad Arbor
9 Forest
//\\
// Creatures
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Argothian Enchantress
1 Courser of Kruphix
1 Eidolon of Blossoms
//\\
// Spells
3 Solitary Confinement
1 Sphere of Safety
2 Exploration
2 Helm of Obedience
3 Rest in Peace
1 Sterling Grove
4 Wild Growth
3 Mirri's Guile
3 Elephant Grass
4 Enchantress's Presence
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Utopia Sprawl
//\\
// Sideboard
1 Helm of Obedience
1 Rest in Peace
4 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Eidolon of Rhetoric
3 Swords to Plowshares
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Humility

Yes, 61 cards. I haven't found a way how to bring the Eidolon in without cutting anything useful. And no, Forest is too useful to cut. It is not unusual to have midgame GSZ with big mana out, so I wanted another Tress effect. I could have played Verduran Tress simply because it's one mana cheper, but EoB feeds Serra's Sanctum, etc.
I'm quite satisfied with Nykthos. I'm far less satisfied with missing Karakas. the three StP are not exactly brilliant and I think I'll switch one for the last Grass, the next two for Obl. Rings.
RiP/Helm interaction is such a Test Your Opponent's Knowledge Combo. Also, I'd love if people playing Show and Tell would know and understand how their own cards work. Obl. Ring really can remove the 15/15 flying spaghetti omnomnom6...
It's pretty disgusting that I sometimes cannot start the deck rolling. One would expect that eight Tress cards (not counting cmc4 Eidolon and the 4 GSZ) should be enough. Sometimes it ain't.
Sphere of Safety is an amazing Moat for the poor.
I had a RiP discarded and then Extirpated leaving me with sole Emmy as my last win con. Sigil should be somewhere in there.
Highlight of the deck was against Ichorid where I played a turn2 Confinement to buy me turn just in case. He went nuts only to start bricking with every card played (CT: sorry shroud, DReturn: sorry no dmg) and losing to "I dredge my whole library because why read cards".

I'm tempted to build this pile IRL. Dat MWS. Such many ragequits. Wow.

[Freggle]

In the Eye of Chaos is really pretty. 9 mana Ancestrals are far less impressive.

This is what I'm tinkering with:

Qty Name
1 Plains
4 Windswept Heath
1 Savannah
1 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
3 Serra's Sanctum
1 Dryad Arbor
9 Forest
//\\
// Creatures
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Argothian Enchantress
1 Courser of Kruphix
1 Eidolon of Blossoms
//\\
// Spells
3 Solitary Confinement
1 Sphere of Safety
2 Exploration
2 Helm of Obedience
3 Rest in Peace
1 Sterling Grove
4 Wild Growth
3 Mirri's Guile
3 Elephant Grass
4 Enchantress's Presence
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Utopia Sprawl
//\\
// Sideboard
1 Helm of Obedience
1 Rest in Peace
4 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Eidolon of Rhetoric
3 Swords to Plowshares
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Humility

Yes, 61 cards. I haven't found a way how to bring the Eidolon in without cutting anything useful. And no, Forest is too useful to cut. It is not unusual to have midgame GSZ with big mana out, so I wanted another Tress effect. I could have played Verduran Tress simply because it's one mana cheper, but EoB feeds Serra's Sanctum, etc.
I'm quite satisfied with Nykthos. I'm far less satisfied with missing Karakas. the three StP are not exactly brilliant and I think I'll switch one for the last Grass, the next two for Obl. Rings.
RiP/Helm interaction is such a Test Your Opponent's Knowledge Combo. Also, I'd love if people playing Show and Tell would know and understand how their own cards work. Obl. Ring really can remove the 15/15 flying spaghetti omnomnom6...
It's pretty disgusting that I sometimes cannot start the deck rolling. One would expect that eight Tress cards (not counting cmc4 Eidolon and the 4 GSZ) should be enough. Sometimes it ain't.
Sphere of Safety is an amazing Moat for the poor.
I had a RiP discarded and then Extirpated leaving me with sole Emmy as my last win con. Sigil should be somewhere in there.
Highlight of the deck was against Ichorid where I played a turn2 Confinement to buy me turn just in case. He went nuts only to start bricking with every card played (CT: sorry shroud, DReturn: sorry no dmg) and losing to "I dredge my whole library because why read cards".

I'm tempted to build this pile IRL. Dat MWS. Such many ragequits. Wow.

Glad to see you are enjoying the deck. ...as a side note In the Eye of Chaos only affects instants not sorceries, so Treasure Cruise is not affected. ...Force of Will would be though.

Additionally, if a delve card would be affected you could not delve the additional mana because it is an independent trigger separate from the spell prior to its resolution. (This is different than Thalia there you can delve the additional mana because it affects the cost of the spell) The trigger is also the reason why Split second cards would be unaffected by the eye as well like Krosan Grip

[Bed Decks Palyer]

Glad to see you are enjoying the deck. ...as a side note In the Eye of Chaos only affects instants not sorceries, so Treasure Cruise is not affected. ...Force of Will would be though.

Additionally, if a delve card would be affected you could not delve the additional mana because it is an independent trigger separate from the spell prior to its resolution. (This is different than Thalia there you can delve the additional mana because it affects the cost of the spell) The trigger is also the reason why Split second cards would be unaffected by the eye as well like Krosan Grip

Oops, I missed the instants only part, I saw another word ("interrupt") and made a brain fart by imagining sorcery, because "there's nothing like interrupts in MtG, right?".
However I don't get what's the trick wth split second cards, Eye simply tirggers, unless I miss something.

[Freggle]

Oops, I missed the instants only part, I saw another word ("interrupt") and made a brain fart by imagining sorcery, because "there's nothing like interrupts in MtG, right?".
However I don't get what's the trick wth split second cards, Eye simply tirggers, unless I miss something.

You know what you're right. Upon reflection it would appear to me that:


Opponent Casts Krosan Grip
You declare your In the Eye of Chaos trigger. Eye Trigger goes on the stack.


The stack would resolve:

Eye Trigger
Grip


...so unless your opponent pays (3) the Eye trigger would counter Grip. Thanks for correcting me. I was thinking Split Second did not allow anything on the stack. That is not true. Triggered abilities would resolve.

[Bed Decks Palyer]

However I still missed the interrupts part so our score is 1:1. :smile:
So I've thrown away the StPs and try Rings. Not only they answer many more cards, but they also cantrip (sometimes) and feed the legendary lands. So far I'm fine with them. But the whole sb is a mess. And I don't get why the Humility, it kills half of our engine and turns Emrakul into a Scornful Egotist. Hm... What am I missing?
Also, is the blue splash better? I got troubles with aggro/tempo decks and the RiP/Field combo stops them dead before they may overwhelm me.

[jaydprickett]

However I still missed the interrupts part so our score is 1:1. :smile:
So I've thrown away the StPs and try Rings. Not only they answer many more cards, but they also cantrip (sometimes) and feed the legendary lands. So far I'm fine with them. But the whole sb is a mess. And I don't get why the Humility, it kills half of our engine and turns Emrakul into a Scornful Egotist. Hm... What am I missing?
Also, is the blue splash better? I got troubles with aggro/tempo decks and the RiP/Field combo stops them dead before they may overwhelm me.

Humility is for Elves/Death&Taxes. 2 tough match ups. We don't want Emrakul in either matchup so you can always side him out. I will gladly trade losing 4 argothians for turning off Thalia/Spirit of the Lab/Teeg/Containment Priest/entire elf deck.

Losing 4 Argothians slows us a bit, but it shuts down a whole lot more in their decks. If I enjoyed Humility so far. STP has been really good for me as well. Spirit of the Lab/Eidolon of the great Revel/reanimator/elves are some spots I really want cheap removal. O Ring is probably fine replacement tho.

[Bed Decks Palyer]

Humility is for Elves/Death&Taxes. 2 tough match ups. We don't want Emrakul in either matchup so you can always side him out. I will gladly trade losing 4 argothians for turning off Thalia/Spirit of the Lab/Teeg/Containment Priest/entire elf deck.

Losing 4 Argothians slows us a bit, but it shuts down a whole lot more in their decks. If I enjoyed Humility so far. STP has been really good for me as well. Spirit of the Lab/Eidolon of the great Revel/reanimator/elves are some spots I really want cheap removal. O Ring is probably fine replacement tho.
Thanks. I played quite a lot against Elves and I already realized this points.Amazing experience. Makes me wonder that Elves seem even better deck than Tress. Sad, sad day for humanity.
Should I board out the Enchantresses? Or do I keep them to draw draw draw, then lay down Humility?

[Claymore1]

I was wondering if I can bring a card up for discussion. I ran across this card Elfhame Sanctuary, with solitary confinement out, it can sustain solitary confinement by itself, as well as trim the deck off basic lands, which we have so many of. So with a single enchantress and this, we can simply go off that, as we are slowly trimming our deck down of basics. Or trim the deck out of lands, and we only have business spells afterwards. Thoughts?

[Bed Decks Palyer]

I was wondering if I can bring a card up for discussion. I ran across this card Elfhame Sanctuary, with solitary confinement out, it can sustain solitary confinement by itself, as well as trim the deck off basic lands, which we have so many of. So with a single enchantress and this, we can simply go off that, as we are slowly trimming our deck down of basics. Or trim the deck out of lands, and we only have business spells afterwards. Thoughts?

I don't think that it's powerful enough. What would you cut for it? How many of them you'd play? It doesn't look like an ET/Grove target, but you definitely won't be playing 3+ of them.
The only idea I got is to cut down the number of defensive cards and increase Confinement to full set, then include this one to fully depend on the lock. You don't need e.g. Moat or Sphere of Safety while under Confinement, but then again Confinemet dies to Decay (unlike Moat) and is unsustainable without other cards.
I don't know, I need to test it, but I already play 61 cards with only four wincons of which two are the same (Helm) and depend on other cards in play and of course they can be stopped by one Revoker, then I got Emrakul which is a 15 mana wincon followed by kinda slow angels. So far the only card to cut is eiher a Forest (but 19 lands are dangerous) or Sphere of Safety, but that's a card that won me many games so I'm hesitant to switch it for crappy Land Tax.

[slave]

I had a RiP discarded and then Extirpated leaving me with sole Emmy as my last win con. Sigil should be somewhere in there.
Sigil of the Empty Throne or maybe even Luminarch Ascension could work.
Chances are Ascensions' conditional nature is a deal-breaker for most, but since I've seen Enchantress decks land Emrakul quite a few times I'm assuming it's not that big a deal to hold off attacks.

[Bed Decks Palyer]

Sigil of the Empty Throne or maybe even Luminarch Ascension could work.
Chances are Ascensions' conditional nature is a deal-breaker for most, but since I've seen Enchantress decks land Emrakul quite a few times I'm assuming it's not that big a deal to hold off attacks.

Well, Sigil works totally different than Ascension and there could be a mini-article about the differencies in applications of both.
I mean, it shouldn't be completely unreasonable to avoid life loss through dmg (Confinement, Moat, Grass, etc.), especially when we have zero need to fetch during opponent's turns. The main idea is that Sigil, while twice that many expensive, works on it's own and it triggers every time we put another part of the puzzle in its place. The Ascension's ability to sink excess mana from Sanctum is not that brilliant neither necessary, because if our plan is working, we have little need to sink mana, as it's much more appealing to draw draw draw, lock lock lock, all the while triggering one token after another.
I'd much rather move further my board state with another and another enchantment preferably locking the opponent and increasing my available mana, than sinking mana into the angels while trembling in fear what will happen on opponent's next turn.

[Bed Decks Palyer]

sry for a dp

After some more testing I'm fairly positive that the whole Sigil/Ascension dilemma is pointless. Because both cards I pointless. I never really won with either, and 99 % of times I go either for Helm or Emmy kill if at all, as i got quite some scoop wins.

Although this might turn the deck into a one-trick pony, I think that a possible route might be to concentrate on the RIP/Hlem combo. RiP is pretty solid against the field (oh hai DRS, Goyf, etc.) and while I know all the "but he may BS away the useless TCs", it still hinders their plan.
Next thing to consider is that Therapy is everywhere and there are not enough targets to burn (except for Dryad), so everything ends in our dome. I'm considering a maindeck Leyline of Sanctity. Not only this wins against storm (at least g1 unless they got insane amounts of fast gobbos), but it also feeds Sanctum and keps us free of discard and burn. Sounds good.
With a number of RIPs increased to full set, maybe even some Leyline of TV, we may easily Helm on turn3-4 with Emmy being the only alt-win-con. Woohoo, deck dies to Meddling Mage, I know. Needs a space for Obl Rings. Definitely no room for LotV then. But still... I like it.

[jaydprickett]

sry for a dp

After some more testing I'm fairly positive that the whole Sigil/Ascension dilemma is pointless. Because both cards I pointless. I never really won with either, and 99 % of times I go either for Helm or Emmy kill if at all, as i got quite some scoop wins.

Although this might turn the deck into a one-trick pony, I think that a possible route might be to concentrate on the RIP/Hlem combo. RiP is pretty solid against the field (oh hai DRS, Goyf, etc.) and while I know all the "but he may BS away the useless TCs", it still hinders their plan.
Next thing to consider is that Therapy is everywhere and there are not enough targets to burn (except for Dryad), so everything ends in our dome. I'm considering a maindeck Leyline of Sanctity. Not only this wins against storm (at least g1 unless they got insane amounts of fast gobbos), but it also feeds Sanctum and keps us free of discard and burn. Sounds good.
With a number of RIPs increased to full set, maybe even some Leyline of TV, we may easily Helm on turn3-4 with Emmy being the only alt-win-con. Woohoo, deck dies to Meddling Mage, I know. Needs a space for Obl Rings. Definitely no room for LotV then. But still... I like it.

I agree that Sigil is a wasted slot and not needed. I have had no problems killing with RIP/Helm and Emrakul. Right now I am playing 3 RIP mainboard and 1 SB. Would it be better just to play more copies on Enlightened Tutor over additional Helms? My ratio right now is -

3 RIP
1 Helm
1 Emrakul
1 Enlightened Tutor

[Bed Decks Palyer]

I agree that Sigil is a wasted slot and not needed. I have had no problems killing with RIP/Helm and Emrakul. Right now I am playing 3 RIP mainboard and 1 SB. Would it be better just to play more copies on Enlightened Tutor over additional Helms? My ratio right now is -

3 RIP
1 Helm
1 Emrakul
1 Enlightened Tutor

Yeah, this looks reasonable, because the one ET may find any other necessary card in case of emergency.

[btm10]

So does anyone want to take odds on whether Earthcraft will be getting unbanned? There have been at least two SCG articles calling for it (Carsten Kotter and, less emphatically, Patrick Chapin) in the past few months and I've got to say - if it comes off the list Enchantress will be a tier 1 deck.

As for current wincons, the only things I don't like about RiP/Helm are:

- Uses lots of slots
- Can't be Replenished easily

I'm definitely sold on Emrakul though.

[jaydprickett]

I just wanted to let it be known that I used Helm to steal a Griselbrand game 3 against Reanimator! First time that has ever happened. Opponent was dumbfounded. :cool:

[lordofthepit]

Thoughts on the newly spoiled Monastery Mentor as part of a transformational sideboard plan to put a quick clock on the opponent?

[btm10]

Thoughts on the newly spoiled Monastery Mentor as part of a transformational sideboard plan to put a quick clock on the opponent?

I'm not sure what the transformation would be. 3-4 Mentor/1-3 Concordant Crossroads for the top of the curve and then play Mentor, drop a bunch of 1cc enchantments, then swing? It might be alright, but I don't see it improving the deck's bad matchups; it's probably worse than actually sideboarding hate against something like Omnitell, TES, or ANT.

[lordofthepit]

I'm not sure what the transformation would be. 3-4 Mentor/1-3 Concordant Crossroads for the top of the curve and then play Mentor, drop a bunch of 1cc enchantments, then swing? It might be alright, but I don't see it improving the deck's bad matchups; it's probably worse than actually sideboarding hate against something like Omnitell, TES, or ANT.

It's not a traditional transformational plan in which you have to dedicate a lot of sideboard slots. Resolving just a single Mentor can easily overrun your opponents if they board out targeted removal without changing the rest of your game plan. I feel Enchantress is a great shell for it because (1) cheap enchantments often serve as cantrips, (2) the deck can generate a ton of mana quickly, and (3) a Mentor is a decent threat that allows you to overpower a counterspell heavy deck even if you can't stick an Enchantress effect. Moreover, your opponent usually boards out their creature removal against you, and this strategy forces them to guess correctly on whether you're bringing in Mentors.

[btm10]

It's not a traditional transformational plan in which you have to dedicate a lot of sideboard slots. Resolving just a single Mentor can easily overrun your opponents if they board out targeted removal without changing the rest of your game plan. I feel Enchantress is a great shell for it because (1) cheap enchantments often serve as cantrips, (2) the deck can generate a ton of mana quickly, and (3) a Mentor is a decent threat that allows you to overpower a counterspell heavy deck even if you can't stick an Enchantress effect. Moreover, your opponent usually boards out their creature removal against you, and this strategy forces them to guess correctly on whether you're bringing in Mentors.

That's basically what I thought you were getting at. I do think you'd want at least a singleton Crossroads (as a tutor target) or more (as additional 1-mana cantrips) so you can just combo your opponents in a single turn. I'm not the biggest fan of him because people (especially UR) do tend to leave in Burn because it can go to the dome and Pyroclasm kills both Mentor and your other creatures.

[JamesD]

Seems like everyone is running a RIP/helm combo in their decks

anyone running enchantress without this combo?

id like to try a build that main decks 2x sigil 1x emrakul and 2x replenish

[btm10]

Seems like everyone is running a RIP/helm combo in their decks

anyone running enchantress without this combo?

id like to try a build that main decks 2x sigil 1x emrakul and 2x replenish

Two Sigil is probably overkill; you really don't want three do-nothings in your deck. I've basically sworn off Enchantress until Earthcraft is unbanned or all combo magically vanishes, but I'm definitely skeptical of cutting Replenish in general.

[JamesD]

Two Sigil is probably overkill; you really don't want three do-nothings in your deck. I've basically sworn off Enchantress until Earthcraft is unbanned or all combo magically vanishes, but I'm definitely skeptical of cutting Replenish in general.

you think a deck could get away with just 1 sigil and 1 emrakul as win conditions?

id really like to try an enchantress build WITHOUT the RIP/helm combo instead running replenish and stony silence/suppression field maindeck

[jaydprickett]

you think a deck could get away with just 1 sigil and 1 emrakul as win conditions?

id really like to try an enchantress build WITHOUT the RIP/helm combo instead running replenish and stony silence/suppression field maindeck

I have been playing a ton of Enchantress the last few months and I can't for the life of me figure out why people want to play Replenish. No one plays mass enchantment removal. At best you may get a few enchantments countered or maybe 1 abrupt decayed. Replenish doesn't seem that good. And Rest in Peace is at an all time high in terms of utility power. The best decks right now are running delve cards or trying to combo you out by reanimating a monster/flashing back cards to storm. Rest in Peace is miles better then replenish.

You can run suppression field with helm just fine as you usually have a ton of mana anyway. But There is no way I wouldn't run rest in peace main deck right now.

[btm10]

I have been playing a ton of Enchantress the last few months and I can't for the life of me figure out why people want to play Replenish. No one plays mass enchantment removal. At best you may get a few enchantments countered or maybe 1 abrupt decayed. Replenish doesn't seem that good. And Rest in Peace is at an all time high in terms of utility power. The best decks right now are running delve cards or trying to combo you out by reanimating a monster/flashing back cards to storm. Rest in Peace is miles better then replenish.


Rest in Peace and Replenish aren't mutually exclusive, but that's not the main point. Replenish lets you bait counters or not play around Daze/Spell Pierce in the early game. It's also got amazing synergy with Eidolon of Blossoms.

On win conditions, if I were going to play Enchantress right now I'd probably run RiP/Helm, but it's clunky as hell and hard to defend the Helm itself. Sigil generally gets the job done just fine for me and isn't vulnerable to nearly as much disruption.

[jaydprickett]

Rest in Peace and Replenish aren't mutually exclusive, but that's not the main point. Replenish lets you bait counters or not play around Daze/Spell Pierce in the early game. It's also got amazing synergy with Eidolon of Blossoms.

On win conditions, if I were going to play Enchantress right now I'd probably run RiP/Helm, but it's clunky as hell and hard to defend the Helm itself. Sigil generally gets the job done just fine for me and isn't vulnerable to nearly as much disruption.

In my experience my graveyard just never contains that many enchantments. Plus they are countering our enchantress effects, which 8 out of 12 aren't even enchantments to Replenish back. So I guess there is the fringe case you can Replenish an Enchantress's Presence but I am not seeing that this is happening very often. I could maybe see it as a SB card against Deed but other than that...

[btm10]

In my experience my graveyard just never contains that many enchantments. Plus they are countering our enchantress effects, which 8 out of 12 aren't even enchantments to Replenish back. So I guess there is the fringe case you can Replenish an Enchantress's Presence but I am not seeing that this is happening very often. I could maybe see it as a SB card against Deed but other than that...

It's not only there for countered Enchantments, and Presence is only one example. It's often correct to let an Elephant Grass or Confinement die and then Replenish it back in order to save mana or use your draw step. Sometimes you don't win the turn uou draw into RiP/Helm or Emrakul and discard enchamemts to hand size to set up the blowout next turn. Sometimes you've got to contend with Thalia or a resistor and Replenish and discarding to hand size or pitching enchanemts to Confinement is more efficient than hardcasting them. Andif your opponent is countering enchantmemts, the Replenish is the best bait of all.

[The_Dingo]

It's not only there for countered Enchantments, and Presence is only one example. It's often correct to let an Elephant Grass or Confinement die and then Replenish it back in order to save mana or use your draw step. Sometimes you don't win the turn uou draw into RiP/Helm or Emrakul and discard enchamemts to hand size to set up the blowout next turn. Sometimes you've got to contend with Thalia or a resistor and Replenish and discarding to hand size or pitching enchanemts to Confinement is more efficient than hardcasting them. Andif your opponent is countering enchantmemts, the Replenish is the best bait of all.

In addition to all of these things replenish lets you engineer situations where you can draw a boatload of cards with eidolon of blossoms, and it also lets you be much more liberal when using sterling grove as a tutor, since you know it will be replenished back.

It's a little niche, but it has also helped me cheat tons of 1 drops through chalices and play around counterbalance.

[Wordslinger]

what are peoples thoughts on the blue siege card out of the new set for versions that splash blue for rest in peace energy field? the dissynergy between sylvan library and solitary confinement is real,
and the dragons half is also relevant if you have enough enchantress effects and just want to protect your board. in this way, it does a lot of things the deck is intrested in. it even fuels replenish, if
that's your jam.

[Sammo]

Two Sigil is probably overkill; you really don't want three do-nothings in your deck. I've basically sworn off Enchantress until Earthcraft is unbanned or all combo magically vanishes, but I'm definitely skeptical of cutting Replenish in general.

There is seriously no reason why Earthcraft is still banned. I can not wait for this though lol.... But to agree with what you said 2 Sigil is overkill. I was running a replenish build until about 6 months ago and swapped it out for helm/rip. I just think rip is really good right now against a good amount of decks.

[B is for Big Job]

There is seriously no reason why Earthcraft is still banned. I can not wait for this though lol....

Earthcraft can't be un-banned because they can't really ban Squirrel Nest since alone the card isn't so threatening but crazy good with Earthcraft.

[apple713]

Earthcraft can't be un-banned because they can't really ban Squirrel Nest since alone the card isn't so threatening but crazy good with Earthcraft.

with all the other broken things going on in legacy for ~5 mana, having earth craft / squirrel nest would not be an issue. S&T cost 3 mana, Sneak attack 4 mana, ad nauseous 5 mana, grindstone painter 6 colorless

[Sammo]

Earthcraft can't be un-banned because they can't really ban Squirrel Nest since alone the card isn't so threatening but crazy good with Earthcraft.

There are so many better things than Earthcraft/Squirrel Nest. When it was banned, sure I can get behind it being banned. But now? There are better combos, more answers. I just can't agree with you that it should be banned.

[Freggle]

There are so many better things than Earthcraft/Squirrel Nest. When it was banned, sure I can get behind it being banned. But now? There are better combos, more answers. I just can't agree with you that it should be banned.

For funzies I play a Squirrel Craft version of Enchantress in Vintage online, and it's decent there. It's actually a high bred version with Words of Wind. The deck can "fairly easily" become broken with (1) Nettle Sentinel on the battlefield generating ( which you can GSZ for) seemingly endless mana to bounce boards. Vintage and Legacy are two very different formats so it's hard to say that unbanning Earthcraft would break the format. ...but I can see Elves using Earthcraft, Nettle's to their advantage as well, and that deck is already bonkers. ...I will say it sure is nice to tap an Argothian to untap a land with a bunch of growth effects on it though.

[btm10]

with all the other broken things going on in legacy for ~5 mana, having earth craft / squirrel nest would not be an issue. S&T cost 3 mana, Sneak attack 4 mana, ad nauseous 5 mana, grindstone painter 6 colorless

You wouldn't run the SquirrelCraft combo in Enchantress. Sacred Mesa/Earthcraft and a land with a growth effect is infinite (tapped) tokens as long as the land produces white mana. With two growth effects on that land it's infinite dudes and infinite mana. If you're generating two white off of the land it's infinite tapped and infinite untapped dudes and infinite mana. It also turns Dryad Arbor, Eidolon of Blossoms, Courser of Kruphix, and Argothians into massive bursts of mana so you can "go off" from a lower base. The more I've tested it, the more I'm convinced that Enchantress with Earthcraft is a tier 1 deck, on a par with Elves.

[U_mage]

You wouldn't run the SquirrelCraft combo in Enchantress. Sacred Mesa/Earthcraft and a land with a growth effect is infinite (tapped) tokens as long as the land produces white mana.

Why bother with needing to make white mana when you just need any *basic* land with nest? Seems like an unnecessary constraint when you can just tap any land and make squirrels

Fixed: added basic

[nedleeds]

Why bother with needing to make white mana when you just need any land with nest? Seems like an unnecessary constraint when you can just tap any land and make squirrels

Basic forest not any land.

[btm10]

Why bother with needing to make white mana when you just need any *basic* land with nest? Seems like an unnecessary constraint when you can just tap any land and make squirrels

Fixed: added basic

Mesa is good on its own, the tokens fly (which isn't irrelevant), a sweeper doesn't Time Walk you, and the ability to also make mana off of the interaction isn't irrelevant when you can use the mana to cast more enchantments to dig for Emrakul, cast Emrakul for the Time Walk, and win on your extra turn.

[U_mage]

a sweeper doesn't Time Walk you

I don't see how a sweeper with squirrel nest is worse than a sweeper with mesa. Both cards work at instant speed. The infinite mana also feels like it'd be win more in a bunch of scenarios

[btm10]

I don't see how a sweeper with squirrel nest is worse than a sweeper with mesa. Both cards work at instant speed. The infinite mana also feels like it'd be win more in a bunch of scenarios

I neglected the option to leave the last token off of squirrel nest untapped, so you're right about that. The ability to just have a ton of untapped flying tokens as blockers is a nontrivial benefit to Mesa, however, as is the fact that it's not useless without Earthcraft. As for the infinite mana angle, using that mana to find and cast Emrakul wins on the spot rather than giving your opponent time to draw an answer. That's hardly win more.

[jaydprickett]

http://www.magicspoiler.com/mtg-spoiler/mastery-unseen/

Could be useful. Solid token maker.

[Concordant]

I have been playing a ton of Enchantress the last few months and I can't for the life of me figure out why people want to play Replenish. No one plays mass enchantment removal. At best you may get a few enchantments countered or maybe 1 abrupt decayed. Replenish doesn't seem that good. And Rest in Peace is at an all time high in terms of utility power. The best decks right now are running delve cards or trying to combo you out by reanimating a monster/flashing back cards to storm. Rest in Peace is miles better then replenish.

You can run suppression field with helm just fine as you usually have a ton of mana anyway. But There is no way I wouldn't run rest in peace main deck right now.

I'm running a version with 3 Suppression Fields and 2 Replenish main deck and it has worked great. I *vastly* prefer it to the RiP-Helm version primarily because RiP-Helm just loses to BUG decks. The problem is that BUG has a fairly quick clock, counterspells, discard and enchantment removal. Imo, an enchantress deck can be tuned to beat 2 out of the 4 ways to attack the deck. Trying to beat all four just leads to awkward hands where you have leyline of sanctity, rest in peace and an enchantress against force of will, abrupt decay and delver. Or you have elephant grass, enchantress and city of solitude against thoughseize, liliana and tarmogoyf.

Replenish is one of the few cards which can combat all three types of hate. Since nearly every deck in legacy runs either discard, counterspells or removal Replenish is very seldom a dead card. At the very least, it becomes a copy of whatever card the opponent fear the most (since he tried to get rid of it).

The Suppression Fields do a lot of work to slow down the BUG deck by attacking the mana (8-10 fetchlands and drs). This in turn means that the BUG player will be forced to choose between attacking through a single elephant grass, playing spells, activating liliana or advancing the mana. Put differently, it is a broad enough to always hit something, pretty much regardless of what the opponent is playing.

Also regarding the utility of stopping tarmogoyf, treasure cruise and similar cards; we are a prison deck. Assuming we can get our engine/lock into play, we dont care about card advantage or medium-sized vanilla creatures. On the other hand, if we cant get an enchantress to stick, we're almost certain to lose anyway.

If you are expecting large amounts of reanimator and storm in your meta then i agree that rip is better, but on the other hand, you should probably not run enchantress at all. And for what it's worth, Suppression Fields are better agaist some other combo's like Sneak Attack and Grindstone.

[Freggle]

http://www.magicspoiler.com/mtg-spoiler/mastery-unseen/

Could be useful. Solid token maker.

I'm actually intrigued by this card for Enchantress. I love how it can work with Guile in very interesting ways, and also trick an argothian into play through it's mechanic. In the situation where you have mana, and empty hand and no enchantress effects. If you were to find an argothian with guile you could place it 2 down draw the top (preferably an enchantment) trick argothian in (6 mana) and start chaining enchantments to get something going.

I'm a scpetic that it will be "good enough" for the deck, but there is enough there to test builds with it.

As for the White token generating Prowless guy a few pages back it seems interesting, and could be quite powerful out of the board. The only issue is I'm not sure enchantress has the slots to support it. Additionally, people keep sweepers in to deal with Argothians so we could potentially be playing into peoples plans on us. Therefore, I do not believe this would be a plug and play on release.

[Scott]

The problem is that BUG has a fairly quick clock, counterspells, discard and enchantment removal. Imo, an enchantress deck can be tuned to beat 2 out of the 4 ways to attack the deck. Trying to beat all four just leads to awkward hands where you have leyline of sanctity, rest in peace and an enchantress against force of will, abrupt decay and delver. Or you have elephant grass, enchantress and city of solitude against thoughseize, liliana and tarmogoyf.

Replenish is one of the few cards which can combat all three types of hate. Since nearly every deck in legacy runs either discard, counterspells or removal Replenish is very seldom a dead card. At the very least, it becomes a copy of whatever card the opponent fear the most (since he tried to get rid of it).


Agreed about Replenish being one of the few cards to cover those bases. I'm curious what other cards you're referring that also can.

[Concordant]

Agreed about Replenish being one of the few cards to cover those bases. I'm curious what other cards you're referring that also can.

I dont have any secret tech if that's what you mean. I did not mean to imply that there are good alternatives to Replenish. :-)

There are however several strategies that can be effective against both discard, counters and removal.
1) Proactive resource denial. Blood Moon, Choke, Back to Basics, Suppression Field and possibly Spreading Algea. Unfortunatelly there are no Thalia or Thorn of Amethyst for enchantments, but those would fall into the same category.

2) Proactive discard. (AKA Why not run your own?) I have seen brews trying out Brain Maggot. More traditional options like Thoughseize or Duress would of course also work.

3) Reactive counterspells. (AKA Why not run your own, too?) Both FoW and Mindbreak Trap have been used in UG enchantress. Unfortunatelly the counterspells seem to require a rather large commitment to blue.

4) Reanimation/recursion. Replenish is of course the prime example. Open the Vaults is too expensive to be practical but would in principle do the same thing. People have played Holistic Wisdom to good finishes in the past. UG enchantress plays Eternal Witness (usually 2 copies main) which give a lot of resilience. Argivian Find might also work.

[btm10]

I dont have any secret tech if that's what you mean. I did not mean to imply that there are good alternatives to Replenish. :-)

There are however several strategies that can be effective against both discard, counters and removal.
1) Proactive resource denial. Blood Moon, Choke, Back to Basics, Suppression Field and possibly Spreading Algea. Unfortunatelly there are no Thalia or Thorn of Amethyst for enchantments, but those would fall into the same category.

This is the 'classic' Enchantress route. It works pretty well, but most of the matchups where those cards are good are already good g1 matchups, so while they have a place in the board, they aren't great MD, except Suppression Field. Blood Moon in particular is fantastic against BGx decks because they usually only run 0-2 basics.



2) Proactive discard. (AKA Why not run your own?) I have seen brews trying out Brain Maggot. More traditional options like Thoughseize or Duress would of course also work.


I've done this (see pages ~170-180) and it works well. If you aren't trying to hate on BGx decks in particular, I tend to prefer GWb Enchantress to the other splashes because of the ability to run discard as both disruption and protection. We're proactive in general, and black provides better supplemental Enchantments (Engineered Plague, The Abyss, Dread of Night, Brain Maggot, Doomwake Giant, Words of Waste and so on; even Dark Heart of the Wood isn't terrible) than Blue (which sees a dramatic fall off in quality after In the Eye of Chaos, Words of Wind, Ancestral Knowledge, and Energy Field) does while still working as a splash.




3) Reactive counterspells. (AKA Why not run your own, too?) Both FoW and Mindbreak Trap have been used in UG enchantress. Unfortunatelly the counterspells seem to require a rather large commitment to blue.


Freggle and I briefly screwed around with a GWu build of traditional Enchantress last year; lists are probably 10-20 pages back. At least some had Force, and most had In the Eye of Chaos, which is probably the best anti-coutnermagic card ever. It really shores up the combo matchup as well, but it has its own problems like limiting other SB options because you need so much blue to support Force, as you noted.



4) Reanimation/recursion. Replenish is of course the prime example. Open the Vaults is too expensive to be practical but would in principle do the same thing. People have played Holistic Wisdom to good finishes in the past. UG enchantress plays Eternal Witness (usually 2 copies main) which give a lot of resilience. Argivian Find might also work.

Argivian Find is actually pretty good. Way, way back in the dark ages when I played Vintage Enchantress (so 2001-2003), I ran 2 Replenish, 1 Regrowth, 1 Will, 1 Find and Find was great. I actually ran 2 Find over Replenish at SCG Columbus last January and it was instrumental in beating both High Tide and Reanimator. It's a great card, though I'm not sure how well positioned it is at the moment.

[jaydprickett]

Deck list update -

4x Enchantress’s Presence
4x Argothian Enchantress
3x Green Sun’s Zenith

4x Wild Growth
4x Utopia Sprawl

3x Rest in Peace
2x Helm of Obedience
1x Emrakul, The Aeon’s Torn
1x Enlightened Tutor

3x Elephant Grass
3x Mirri’s Guile
3x Solitary Confinement
2x Journey to Nowhere
1x Oblivion Ring
1x Exploration

4x Serra’s Sanctum
4x Windswept Heath
1x Plains
2x Savannah
1x Karakas
9x Forest

SB
4 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Humility
3 Suppresion Field
1 Elephant Grass
2 Eidolon of Rhetoric
1 Rule of Law
1 Sigil of the Empty Throne

So there are a few changes I have made.

-1 Green Sun's Zenith
-1 Exploration
-1 Elephant Grass
-1 Dryad Arbor

+1 Helm of Obedience
+2 Journey to Nowhere
+1 Savannah

I have debated dropping a Green Sun's for awhile now and am going to try it. It is so important to have an Enchantress out but draw multiple Green Sun's just isn't that great. I dropped the 2nd Exploration as I never want a 2nd one. Without 4 Green Sun's I am dropping the Dryad Arbor which honestly was under performing anyway.

I added a 2nd Helm because so many games I win by just by getting RiP/Helm online. The Savannah replaces the Dryad Arbor (21 lands have been perfect). The new addition is a little bit weird (at least I haven't seen it played a lot) 2 Journey to Nowhere.

I had 3 STP in my SB and brought them in a lot. Death&Taxes, Reanimator, Show&Tell, and Elves are all tough matches. I am already happy with my game against various Delver and Stoneblade decks. So I want to shore up these other match ups. Journey to Nowhere looks promising.

Sb wise I also made some changes.

SB
4 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Humility - So good against Death&Taxes, Elves, Reanimator, and Show&Tell. Turning off Argothian's isn't a big deal.
3 Suppresion Field - D&T, Elves, and the Painter/Planeswalker type decks. Don't like it MD but SB seems good.
1 Elephant Grass
2 Eidolon of Rhetoric
1 Rule of Law - Still my only plan against Storm. Bad match up but not sure if I should totally ignore it or ...
1 Sigil of the Empty Throne - In match ups where I need to board out Helm I found just the single Emrakul kind of iffy.

Thoughts?

[Concordant]

Could you explain how Argivian Find helped you whereas Replenish wouldn't? I've never actually played that card, but it seems to me that most of the enchantments we might want to bring back cost 3 mana, so Argivian Find + replay enchantment would cost as much as a Replenish.

[Concordant]

@jaydprickett: The sideboard of course depends a lot on your local meta so it is hard to comment on it without knowing what it looks like for you. However, I have not found Suppression Field useful against elves. It stops fetches, DRS and symbiotes, but not much else. Are you really bringing it in in that matchup? For storm and some other combodecks I'd recommend 1 copy of Gaddock Teeg. Since you have 3 GSZ, a single sideboad slot will give you 4 virtual copies of a very good hate card.

[The_Dingo]

Deck list update -

4x Enchantress’s Presence
4x Argothian Enchantress
3x Green Sun’s Zenith

4x Wild Growth
4x Utopia Sprawl

3x Rest in Peace
2x Helm of Obedience
1x Emrakul, The Aeon’s Torn
1x Enlightened Tutor

3x Elephant Grass
3x Mirri’s Guile
3x Solitary Confinement
2x Journey to Nowhere
1x Oblivion Ring
1x Exploration

4x Serra’s Sanctum
4x Windswept Heath
1x Plains
2x Savannah
1x Karakas
9x Forest

SB
4 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Humility
3 Suppresion Field
1 Elephant Grass
2 Eidolon of Rhetoric
1 Rule of Law
1 Sigil of the Empty Throne

So there are a few changes I have made.

-1 Green Sun's Zenith
-1 Exploration
-1 Elephant Grass
-1 Dryad Arbor

+1 Helm of Obedience
+2 Journey to Nowhere
+1 Savannah

I have debated dropping a Green Sun's for awhile now and am going to try it. It is so important to have an Enchantress out but draw multiple Green Sun's just isn't that great. I dropped the 2nd Exploration as I never want a 2nd one. Without 4 Green Sun's I am dropping the Dryad Arbor which honestly was under performing anyway.

I added a 2nd Helm because so many games I win by just by getting RiP/Helm online. The Savannah replaces the Dryad Arbor (21 lands have been perfect). The new addition is a little bit weird (at least I haven't seen it played a lot) 2 Journey to Nowhere.

I had 3 STP in my SB and brought them in a lot. Death&Taxes, Reanimator, Show&Tell, and Elves are all tough matches. I am already happy with my game against various Delver and Stoneblade decks. So I want to shore up these other match ups. Journey to Nowhere looks promising.

Sb wise I also made some changes.

SB
4 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Humility - So good against Death&Taxes, Elves, Reanimator, and Show&Tell. Turning off Argothian's isn't a big deal.
3 Suppresion Field - D&T, Elves, and the Painter/Planeswalker type decks. Don't like it MD but SB seems good.
1 Elephant Grass
2 Eidolon of Rhetoric
1 Rule of Law - Still my only plan against Storm. Bad match up but not sure if I should totally ignore it or ...
1 Sigil of the Empty Throne - In match ups where I need to board out Helm I found just the single Emrakul kind of iffy.

Thoughts?

Overall I think the your list looks really solid. I would suggest the teeg that was mentioned earlier and a single reclamation sage in the SB to help with a bunch of random things like chalice of the void, trinisphere, counterbalance, spirit of the labyrinth etc. With DnT and Maverick packing spirit of the labyrinth in greater numbers I like to have multiple outs.

[Sammo]

Overall I think the your list looks really solid. I would suggest the teeg that was mentioned earlier and a single reclamation sage in the SB to help with a bunch of random things like chalice of the void, trinisphere, counterbalance, spirit of the labyrinth etc. With DnT and Maverick packing spirit of the labyrinth in greater numbers I like to have multiple outs.



I personally think 4 serras sanctums is too many. Also if you are running GSZ why not put more utility creatures (what Dingo was saying, Reclamation Sage, Teeg, etc.). I would also recommend putting 1 dryad arbor back in so you can keep those one land hands and a GSZ. That's just my 2 cents. I am not a fan of GSZ in this deck but if you're going to play it might as well make the most of it.

[btm10]

I personally think 4 serras sanctums is too many. Also if you are running GSZ why not put more utility creatures (what Dingo was saying, Reclamation Sage, Teeg, etc.). I would also recommend putting 1 dryad arbor back in so you can keep those one land hands and a GSZ. That's just my 2 cents. I am not a fan of GSZ in this deck but if you're going to play it might as well make the most of it.

It's a delicate balance between making GSZ good and keeping the deck heavy enough on Enchantments to maximize the engine. I really just like 4 Argothian Enchantress, 1 Eidolon of Blossoms, 1 Dryad Arbor, and a Teeg in the board. Arbor is debateable, but it's better to just run Banishing Light and Seal of Cleansing/Primordium rather than something like Reclamation Sage.

I agree on the point about Sanctums. A 2/2 Sanctum/Nykthos split has worked better for me.


Could you explain how Argivian Find helped you whereas Replenish wouldn't? I've never actually played that card, but it seems to me that most of the enchantments we might want to bring back cost 3 mana, so Argivian Find + replay enchantment would cost as much as a Replenish.

Instant speed matters, and one of the most common Find targets is Sterling Grove, so while there lots of high CMC targets in the deck, the ones you're hitting the most are relatively cheap. I'm not sure that you want to run Find over Replenish right now, but it's an option.

[The_Dingo]

I personally think 4 serras sanctums is too many. Also if you are running GSZ why not put more utility creatures (what Dingo was saying, Reclamation Sage, Teeg, etc.). I would also recommend putting 1 dryad arbor back in so you can keep those one land hands and a GSZ. That's just my 2 cents. I am not a fan of GSZ in this deck but if you're going to play it might as well make the most of it.

BTM10 recommended replacing one sanctum with a nykthos, and I second that recommendation to everyone. It has the same feel as 4 sanctums without the unwieldiness.

[itrytostorm]

Lands
7 Forest
1 Plains
4 Windswept Heath
1 Karakas
4 Serra's Sanctum
2 Savannah
1 Bayou

Creatures
4 Argothian Enchantress
1 Doomwake Giant
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

Enchantments
4 Enchantress's Presence
3 Mirri's Guile
3 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Elephant Grass
4 Utopia Sprawl
3 Solitary Confinement
4 Wild Growth
3 Rest in Peace
1 Sigil of the Empty Throne
1 Sterling Grove
4 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Sphere of Safety

Artifact
1 Helm of Obedience

Sideboard
SB: 1 Gaddock Teeg
SB: 2 Stony Silence
SB: 3 Oblivion Ring
SB: 1 Choke
SB: 2 Carpet of Flowers
SB: 1 Sterling Grove
SB: 1 Elephant Grass
SB: 2 Swords to Plowshares
SB: 1 Enlightened Tutor
SB: 1 Eidolon of Rhetoric

This is my list on MTGO. I played 3 dailies yesterday going 3-1 in all of them. Really like the list. Nykthos for Serra seems like a reasonable swap and I think I want hate for Miracles like Krosan Grip or Abrupt Decay.

Edit: Side note, I am 7-0 vs UR Delver for what it's worth.

[The_Dingo]

Lands
7 Forest
1 Plains
4 Windswept Heath
1 Karakas
4 Serra's Sanctum
2 Savannah
1 Bayou

Creatures
4 Argothian Enchantress
1 Doomwake Giant
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

Enchantments
4 Enchantress's Presence
3 Mirri's Guile
3 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Elephant Grass
4 Utopia Sprawl
3 Solitary Confinement
4 Wild Growth
3 Rest in Peace
1 Sigil of the Empty Throne
1 Sterling Grove
4 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Sphere of Safety

Artifact
1 Helm of Obedience

Sideboard
SB: 1 Gaddock Teeg
SB: 2 Stony Silence
SB: 3 Oblivion Ring
SB: 1 Choke
SB: 2 Carpet of Flowers
SB: 1 Sterling Grove
SB: 1 Elephant Grass
SB: 2 Swords to Plowshares
SB: 1 Enlightened Tutor
SB: 1 Eidolon of Rhetoric

This is my list on MTGO. I played 3 dailies yesterday going 3-1 in all of them. Really like the list. Nykthos for Serra seems like a reasonable swap and I think I want hate for Miracles like Krosan Grip or Abrupt Decay.

Maindeck leylines looks weird. Why u do dat?

[itrytostorm]

Maindeck leylines looks weird. Why u do dat?

Storm is a thing so the auto win is nice. It is also very good against the UR Delver list, shutting off all their burn, and Probe to a lesser extent.

[The_Dingo]

Storm is a thing so the auto win is nice. It is also very good against the UR Delver list, shutting off all their burn, and Probe to a lesser extent.

Is storm a large portion of the online meta?

[itrytostorm]

Is storm a large portion of the online meta?

Both IRL and online, storm is making a big comeback.

[btm10]

Lands
7 Forest
1 Plains
4 Windswept Heath
1 Karakas
4 Serra's Sanctum
2 Savannah
1 Bayou

Creatures
4 Argothian Enchantress
1 Doomwake Giant
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

Enchantments
4 Enchantress's Presence
3 Mirri's Guile
3 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Elephant Grass
4 Utopia Sprawl
3 Solitary Confinement
4 Wild Growth
3 Rest in Peace
1 Sigil of the Empty Throne
1 Sterling Grove
4 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Sphere of Safety

Artifact
1 Helm of Obedience

Sideboard
SB: 1 Gaddock Teeg
SB: 2 Stony Silence
SB: 3 Oblivion Ring
SB: 1 Choke
SB: 2 Carpet of Flowers
SB: 1 Sterling Grove
SB: 1 Elephant Grass
SB: 2 Swords to Plowshares
SB: 1 Enlightened Tutor
SB: 1 Eidolon of Rhetoric

This is my list on MTGO. I played 3 dailies yesterday going 3-1 in all of them. Really like the list. Nykthos for Serra seems like a reasonable swap and I think I want hate for Miracles like Krosan Grip or Abrupt Decay.

Edit: Side note, I am 7-0 vs UR Delver for what it's worth.

Stony Silence, Suppression Field Choke, and City of Solitude are probably the best anti-Miracles cards there are, but you probably don't need any more hate than you already have. I've never had much success with Leyline against Storm; they usually just bounce it unless you get turn 0 Leyline and turn 2 Grove to protect it. Since you're already splashing black, why not Duress or Brain Maggot, at least out of the board? It would also free up MD slots for more Groves and Eidolon of Blossoms. I'd also cut down on Rest in Peace (and maybe a Sigil?) and add at least one Replenish, but that's just me.

[Wordslinger]

I feel like anyone talking about the combo matchup like your sideboard can make it any better than this side of hopeless is being disengenous at best and at worst, never plays against combo. I don't just mean storm; I mean everything that isn't the mirror. Consider:

Omnitell: they have more cantrips than any deck in the format and they get at least four turns, probably five. there's no way they don't have double cunning wish, or wish plus dig or wish for foresight or something. wish into trickbind screws your o-ring.

Sneak and show: It's not that you don't have plans, they're just all awkward and suscepible to the jund problem. Also game ones make mulls weird. Turn one growth, turn two enchantress? Nice confinement you have there.

Elves: This was fine before rec sage. Now its terrible. btw, our mana denial is bad and their Glimpse is cheaper and more efficient than our enchntresses.

Ant: This deck is pretty much always going to kill you through leyline/grove. bounce your grove? past in flames? bounce your leyline? don't get me started on
versions with burning wish. which bring me to..

Tes: now that they have a one mana bounce spell, this is even worse for us than ant. remember we kill on turn 4 or 5 at the soonest. If they combo on turn three we wont have time to deploy two locks. also the jund problem is worse against this and ant.

Belcher: Basically an autoloss. None of your relevant cards are castable at the timeframe neccessary. Elepant grass usually still won't give you a match.

High tide:(spiral) :This deck is just slow enough than you might not get wrecked.

High tide:(reset) : This deck is so slow you'll definitely get wrecked.

Dredge: All right you got me. I'm not going to sit here and pretend you have a bad dredge mactchup.

Reanimator: this ones alright but..

Tinfins: this one isn't! most of the reason why sneak and reanimator aren't unwinnable is because they have to assemble their combo AND attack you, so you can mess them up with taxing. this deck Is a full turn faster and just kills you on its combo turn.

In all of these cases, your normal ideal start of growth into enchantress is anywhere from uncomfortable to horrible. so you'll lose a higher percentage of game ones against unknown opponents on combo.

This is absurd! We lose most of our games to the entire combo archetype! I think that if you plan to take this to anything you want to X-0, the black splash must be considered for cards like doomwake giant and duress. Otherwise a major overhaul is neccessary.


TL, DR: If your plan against combo is grove plus lock piece, stop right there and come up with a better one.

[The_Dingo]

I feel like anyone talking about the combo matchup like your sideboard can make it any better than this side of hopeless is being disengenous at best and at worst, never plays against combo. I don't just mean storm; I mean everything that isn't the mirror. Consider:

Omnitell: they have more cantrips than any deck in the format and they get at least four turns, probably five. there's no way they don't have double cunning wish, or wish plus dig or wish for foresight or something. wish into trickbind screws your o-ring.

Sneak and show: It's not that you don't have plans, they're just all awkward and suscepible to the jund problem. Also game ones make mulls weird. Turn one growth, turn two enchantress? Nice confinement you have there.

Elves: This was fine before rec sage. Now its terrible. btw, our mana denial is bad and their Glimpse is cheaper and more efficient than our enchntresses.

Ant: This deck is pretty much always going to kill you through leyline/grove. bounce your grove? past in flames? bounce your leyline? don't get me started on
versions with burning wish. which bring me to..

Tes: now that they have a one mana bounce spell, this is even worse for us than ant. remember we kill on turn 4 or 5 at the soonest. If they combo on turn three we wont have time to deploy two locks. also the jund problem is worse against this and ant.

Belcher: Basically an autoloss. None of your relevant cards are castable at the timeframe neccessary. Elepant grass usually still won't give you a match.

High tide:(spiral) :This deck is just slow enough than you might not get wrecked.

High tide:(reset) : This deck is so slow you'll definitely get wrecked.

Dredge: All right you got me. I'm not going to sit here and pretend you have a bad dredge mactchup.

Reanimator: this ones alright but..

Tinfins: this one isn't! most of the reason why sneak and reanimator aren't unwinnable is because they have to assemble their combo AND attack you, so you can mess them up with taxing. this deck Is a full turn faster and just kills you on its combo turn.

In all of these cases, your normal ideal start of growth into enchantress is anywhere from uncomfortable to horrible. so you'll lose a higher percentage of game ones against unknown opponents on combo.

This is absurd! We lose most of our games to the entire combo archetype! I think that if you plan to take this to anything you want to X-0, the black splash must be considered for cards like doomwake giant and duress. Otherwise a major overhaul is neccessary.


TL, DR: If your plan against combo is grove plus lock piece, stop right there and come up with a better one.

All of this is true, and if you play in a combo heavy meta, enchantress is probably not the right deck to be playing. That being said, if 1 particular brand of combo is all over the meta, you can do something about that. You can play more maindeck Karakas if you anticipate reanimator and sneak and show being the combo du jour. For elves, doomwake and engineered plagues like you said. Luckily for me, not too many storm players at my LGS, so I only have to lose to it occasionally. If there were more I would start playing DnT or something.

[btm10]

All of this is true, and if you play in a combo heavy meta, enchantress is probably not the right deck to be playing. That being said, if 1 particular brand of combo is all over the meta, you can do something about that. You can play more maindeck Karakas if you anticipate reanimator and sneak and show being the combo du jour. For elves, doomwake and engineered plagues like you said. Luckily for me, not too many storm players at my LGS, so I only have to lose to it occasionally. If there were more I would start playing DnT or something.

I'm not sure if there's enough hate to make Storm tractable (at least in GW, GWb, and GWr), but Blind Obedience, Doomwake Giant, and Engineered Plague are generally enough to keep Elves under control, especially with Swords out of the board for the early game and even with Sage. If you're only seeing one type of (non-Storm) combo, you can make your matchups tolerable for an LGS or MODO Daily meta. If you're looking to go to an open or something, then your best bet is to just give up on combo matchups and drive your non-combo %s through the roof.

[Watersaw]

All of this is true, and if you play in a combo heavy meta, enchantress is probably not the right deck to be playing. That being said, if 1 particular brand of combo is all over the meta, you can do something about that. You can play more maindeck Karakas if you anticipate reanimator and sneak and show being the combo du jour. For elves, doomwake and engineered plagues like you said. Luckily for me, not too many storm players at my LGS, so I only have to lose to it occasionally. If there were more I would start playing DnT or something.

I managed to steal a match from Omnitell over the weekend via Silence. Not sure if it's worth playing, but it exists.


I'm not sure if there's enough hate to make Storm tractable (at least in GW, GWb, and GWr), but Blind Obedience, Doomwake Giant, and Engineered Plague are generally enough to keep Elves under control, especially with Swords out of the board for the early game and even with Sage. If you're only seeing one type of (non-Storm) combo, you can make your matchups tolerable for an LGS or MODO Daily meta. If you're looking to go to an open or something, then your best bet is to just give up on combo matchups and drive your non-combo %s through the roof.


Is it possible to board in Thalia, Guardian of Thraben? She hits us pretty hard but we are more than capable of going over the top, and unlike Leyline of Sanctity she applies pressure and while preventing them from comboing off to begin with. Aegis of the Gods almost does that, except it actually doesn't.

I'm starting to think that Leyline is terrible. It's only redeeming quality is not dieing to Abrupt Decay, and even then they can just Ad Nauseam for infinty and kill you. I guess it's pertty good against Burn, but eh.

[btm10]

Is it possible to board in Thalia, Guardian of Thraben? She hits us pretty hard but we are more than capable of going over the top, and unlike Leyline of Sanctity she applies pressure and while preventing them from comboing off to begin with. Aegis of the Gods almost does that, except it actually doesn't.

I'm starting to think that Leyline is terrible. It's only redeeming quality is not dieing to Abrupt Decay, and even then they can just Ad Nauseam for infinty and kill you. I guess it's pertty good against Burn, but eh.

I'm not sold on cutting Leyline, even if it isn't as good as it was pre-Khans. I wouldn't call cutting it wrong, though. As for Thalia, I mostly like to limit hatebears to Teeg because he's GSZ-able and he has to be removed for most combo to win. If they ever print a Thalia-like ability on an Enchantment, I'd be all over it.

[Watersaw]

I'm not sold on cutting Leyline, even if it isn't as good as it was pre-Khans. I wouldn't call cutting it wrong, though. As for Thalia, I mostly like to limit hatebears to Teeg because he's GSZ-able and he has to be removed for most combo to win. If they ever print a Thalia-like ability on an Enchantment, I'd be all over it.

That's the dream. But even if I did cut it, 7+ hate slots for one deck is a little heavy, even if it is Storm. Leyline just feels like it doesn't do anything most games. We lack a real way to capitalize on it besides buying 2-3 turns.

Screw it. I'll throw her in and see what happens.

Anyway, I tried posting about how bad I did but my computer stopped cooperating. I'll keep this brief so as to not derail too much.

Main
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx Threw it in on a whim. Solid on all counts.
1 Karakas
1 Taiga
2 Plains
3 Serra's Sanctum Had a few odd draws with these.
4 Windswept Heath
7 Forest

4 Argothian Enchantress
1 Reclamation Sage Surprisingly relevant in the main.
1 Eidolon of Blossoms
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

4 Green Sun's Zenith Still feel like this is the way to go. I might just be stuck in the past.
2 Kruphix's Insight And here we have the spice. Strong card, but we need to make a few concessions for it.

3 Elephant Grass
3 Mirri's Guile
4 Wild Growth
4 Utopia Sprawl
3 Rest in Peace
1 Words of War First concession: an enchantment as a stand-alone win condition.
1 Banishing Light
3 Solitary Confinement
4 Enchantress's Presence 15 pieces of card advantage may have been a bit heavy in retrospect.

1 Helm of Obedience Second concession: 3 win conditions. Lower chance of killing myself, but one more dead card.

Side
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Faerie Macabre I was nervous about Reanimator. It's common enough to expect, but 2 sideboard slots may be too much. Especially since they bring in Show and Tell.

1 Silence The wild card.
3 Swords to Plowshares

2 Stony Silence
1 Oblivion Ring
4 Leyline of Sanctity

1 Helm of Obedience The idea was to increase threat density in matches where we need to kill fast. In reality this was pointless.

So the deck was tuned at the last minute with two ideas in mind:
1) We need to beat Death and Taxes.
2) I really want to play Kruphix's Insight
Good news: the second point fits right into the first by letting us cheat death. And by death, I mean Spirit of the Labyrinth. Words of War is a game ending threat that can kill her dead as well, even if Mother of Runes makes us wait a turn. And Reclamation Sage can crack it or an equipment in two. No Suppression Field is a drawback, but I wanted to see how it played without.

As it turns out, Words of War was only relevant in one game (incidentally, it WAS against Death and Taxes). We did win that match so mission accomplished I guess. Faerie Macabre is cute and does not need to be a 2-of. It only comes in against one deck and even then they play around it. The second helm didn’t mean squat. Miracles is a much harder matchup without Suppression Field or Choke. Oops.

I realized this morning that I may be looking at the deck wrong. Before I was categorizing the cards in it as draw (Enchantresses), protection (confinement and friends), ramp and wincons. The thought crossed my mind that our lock pieces are just as much threats as our combo pieces, so they really belong in the same group. Elephant Grass isn't a piece of protection, it's an attack that cripples their game plan. Cutting Suppression Field meant I was actually lowering the lethality of the deck.

...I'm not sure if this train is going anywhere, but I thought it would be good to share. Or I'm just slow/talking out of my ass.

[Claymore1]

We have a very small but slowly growing Legacy here, it started from almost none to actually a pretty playable one. We usually play on Wednesdays but we can only squeeze so any games in as the comic store closes early. I play a fairly stock GW Non-helm build, with a few tweaks to it. I suppose it won't hurt posting my little games with the deck, who knows others may find it enjoyable to read.

Game 1: vs Death and Taxes

[R1] I managed to land a confinement backed by 2 argothians, the problem however is he had Aether Vial and double rishadan port, preventing me from actually casting anything to allow me to maintain the confinement, I lost this one. 0-1.

[R2] I went first, and managed to assemble my protection pieces quickly. Although the game dragged on a bit, I built up a few angel tokens, and hammered as fast as I can before he can find a way to break free. 1-1.

[R3] He went first, I kept a pretty shaky hand but it contained a lot of acceleration, and 1 argothian despite my 1 land. I Played Forest > Utopia Sprawl and then passed the turn, he then played ghost quarter killing my land, losing that enchantment hurt, as it actually slowed me down, he managed to get thalia out and rishadan port starting locking me out of mana again. I lost the game. 1-2

Game 2: vs Affinity

[R1] He scooped early when he had tezzeret out and aiming to go for the finishing blow by turn 3. However, I went ahead ahead and dropped a confinement depiste only having 1 enchantress out, luckily I came across another one and from there I was able to sustain confinement and he scooped. 1-0.

[R2] I dropped a turn 2 Stony Silence and he scooped afterwards. Pretty fast game. 2-0.

Game 3: vs Metalworker

[R1] He had a really explosive start, but my oblivion rings took care of the threats he started dropping. I don't recall much of what happened but this game was really long. 1-0.

[R2] Drawing a Stony Silence and Landing it on turn 2, hurt him a lot. It took me a while to find my win-con to the point that he managed to cast emrakul with his lands. I sacrificed my angel tokems and a few enchantments to withstand the trigger and minimize my losses, but that set me back from casting my own Emrakul. I just end of turn sacrificed my sterling grove and grabbed an oblivion ring to take care of it. I won later on through my new army of angel tokens, finished just in time since the comic store was closing soon. 2-0.

2-1

I really don't like Rishadan Ports, I'm tempted to take out my O-Rings and replace them with Songs of the Dryads. :( I noticed too, I tend to have issues against Death and Taxes and Infect decks. Anyone have any advise for those?

[btm10]

W
I really don't like Rishadan Ports, I'm tempted to take out my O-Rings and replace them with Songs of the Dryads. :( I noticed too, I tend to have issues against Death and Taxes and Infect decks. Anyone have any advise for those?

I tend to not have issues with D&T, but that's largely because I (usually) splash black and run 1-2 SB Dread of Night. If Port has got you down, Sheltering Prayers takes care of it.

EDIT: Watersaw - I don't like the red splash as much as I did pre-Khans because while WoWar is great against the field right now, Engineered Plague is even better, and Words can't kill Spirit unless you use it on your draw step, and Mom+Spirit forces you into "find Emrakul or die" mode. I guess we have things like Seal of Cleansing, but then that takes a tutor and an additional turn to set up. I'd rather just Dread of Night or E. Plague the problem away. The other reasons I favor black over red right now (and over GW) are the fact that Blood Moon isn't as good as it used to be, and the discard effects, especially Brain Maggot, are great.

[Claymore1]

Thanks for the tip about sheltering prayers, I didn't even know the card existed. I'll have to hunt one down and squeeze one in the sideboard. :laugh:

[Freggle]

I really don't like Rishadan Ports, I'm tempted to take out my O-Rings and replace them with Songs of the Dryads. :( I noticed too, I tend to have issues against Death and Taxes and Infect decks. Anyone have any advise for those?

Sounds like you really want Suppression Field.


I feel like anyone talking about the combo matchup like your sideboard can make it any better than this side of hopeless is being disengenous at best and at worst, never plays against combo. I don't just mean storm; I mean everything that isn't the mirror. Consider:

Omnitell: they have more cantrips than any deck in the format and they get at least four turns, probably five. there's no way they don't have double cunning wish, or wish plus dig or wish for foresight or something. wish into trickbind screws your o-ring.

Sneak and show: It's not that you don't have plans, they're just all awkward and suscepible to the jund problem. Also game ones make mulls weird. Turn one growth, turn two enchantress? Nice confinement you have there.

Elves: This was fine before rec sage. Now its terrible. btw, our mana denial is bad and their Glimpse is cheaper and more efficient than our enchntresses.

Ant: This deck is pretty much always going to kill you through leyline/grove. bounce your grove? past in flames? bounce your leyline? don't get me started on
versions with burning wish. which bring me to..

Tes: now that they have a one mana bounce spell, this is even worse for us than ant. remember we kill on turn 4 or 5 at the soonest. If they combo on turn three we wont have time to deploy two locks. also the jund problem is worse against this and ant.

Belcher: Basically an autoloss. None of your relevant cards are castable at the timeframe neccessary. Elepant grass usually still won't give you a match.

High tide:(spiral) :This deck is just slow enough than you might not get wrecked.

High tide:(reset) : This deck is so slow you'll definitely get wrecked.

Dredge: All right you got me. I'm not going to sit here and pretend you have a bad dredge mactchup.

Reanimator: this ones alright but..

Tinfins: this one isn't! most of the reason why sneak and reanimator aren't unwinnable is because they have to assemble their combo AND attack you, so you can mess them up with taxing. this deck Is a full turn faster and just kills you on its combo turn.

In all of these cases, your normal ideal start of growth into enchantress is anywhere from uncomfortable to horrible. so you'll lose a higher percentage of game ones against unknown opponents on combo.

This is absurd! We lose most of our games to the entire combo archetype! I think that if you plan to take this to anything you want to X-0, the black splash must be considered for cards like doomwake giant and duress. Otherwise a major overhaul is neccessary.


TL, DR: If your plan against combo is grove plus lock piece, stop right there and come up with a better one.

Testing proves otherwise. In the GW sideboards with Gaddock Teeg, o rings Banishing light and Stony Silence the following post board games go to 50/50 or better:

Belcher
Ant
Tes
Sneak and Show
Omnitell
Hightide - time Spiral Build

The following remain bad after boards:

Elves
High Tide - Reset


Now I we recognized this issue and a few pages back posted a list that plays Eidolon of Rhetoric. this greatly affects the decks that need to cast multiple spells a turn, or decks that use cantrips to find cards. This sideboard does not have nearly the same amount of testing behind it but in preliminary testing this approach actually swings most combo match-ups positive post boards.

I have tried the Gxb lists with discard, and those don't improve combo all that much honestly. Enchantress drawing into a discard spell is not the best because it does not trigger draws, and the disruption the discard provides is not enough to prolong the game to where Enchantress can kill (unless its like a Pros Bloom version.)

Your right. We're not excited to be matched with combo, but the MU is not a bye for the combo player either, and with further testing of the Eidolon strat. it may honestly not be all that bad.

[Watersaw]

Sounds like you really want Suppression Field.



Testing proves otherwise. In the GW sideboards with Gaddock Teeg, o rings Banishing light and Stony Silence the following post board games go to 50/50 or better:

Belcher
Ant
Tes
Sneak and Show
Omnitell
Hightide - time Spiral Build

The following remain bad after boards:

Elves
High Tide - Reset


Now I we recognized this issue and a few pages back posted a list that plays Eidolon of Rhetoric. this greatly affects the decks that need to cast multiple spells a turn, or decks that use cantrips to find cards. This sideboard does not have nearly the same amount of testing behind it but in preliminary testing this approach actually swings most combo match-ups positive post boards.

I have tried the Gxb lists with discard, and those don't improve combo all that much honestly. Enchantress drawing into a discard spell is not the best because it does not trigger draws, and the disruption the discard provides is not enough to prolong the game to where Enchantress can kill (unless its like a Pros Bloom version.)

Your right. We're not excited to be matched with combo, but the MU is not a bye for the combo player either, and with further testing of the Eidolon strat. it may honestly not be all that bad.

I'll try that a bit. Right now I'm testing some number of Thalia, Guardian of Thraben and Brain Maggot in place of Leyline of Sanctity and some other stuff. So far they've proved to be a beating in conjunction with Gaddock Teeg and Dryad Arbor Will report back.

[The_Dingo]

I'll try that a bit. Right now I'm testing some number of Thalia, Guardian of Thraben and Brain Maggot in place of Leyline of Sanctity and some other stuff. So far they've proved to be a beating in conjunction with Gaddock Teeg and Dryad Arbor Will report back.

I'm interested in this plan. How do you go about boarding? What comes out/goes in exactly?

[nedleeds]

I'm usually terrified of a fast Thalia or a Gaddock Teeg against me when I'm playing Enchantress, Eidolon of Rhetoric sounds like one of the best sideboard cards against enchantress.

[Freggle]

I'm usually terrified of a fast Thalia or a Gaddock Teeg against me when I'm playing Enchantress, Eidolon of Rhetoric sounds like one of the best sideboard cards against enchantress.

There is not question it is an avant garde approach, but there is thought be hind the theory. Most combo decks need to do 1 of 2 things get A + B or chain a bunch of spells.

If Enchantress is ca combo deck which I believe it is traditional GW with Replenish is the chain a bunch a spells variety [Sigil and Words] whereas the GW Helm is the A + B Variety. Helm & Emrakul.

Since GW helm only needs to put A to B it would be advantageous to limit the number of spells that needs to be cast. In addition for combo decks to find their answers they need to cast spells. Whereas GW Helms card selection comes from Shuffle effects and Mirri's Guile. Therefore, due to this relativity GW enchantress is actually favored under Rule of Law or Eidolon of Rhetoric, and testing has proven that to be true. (2) Effects is usually game since most combo players prefer Chain of Vapor to Echoing Truth.

In the event your combo opponent happens to have the bounce and the kill in hand then there really isn't much enchantress could do to get out of that. I have tested Curse of Exhaustion however the cards is too slow or too unreliable to be effective. Is this ultimately the best path of GW Enchantress to take? Who knows until you test it extensively. I feel the theory is sound enough to try.

[Watersaw]

I'm interested in this plan. How do you go about boarding? What comes out/goes in exactly?

Currently at 1 Gaddock, 3 Thalia, 3 Maggot, 2 Stony, and one actual Silence .

Been taking out Suppression Field, Reclamation Sage, Banishing Light , RIP and Helm, and Solitary Confinement . Should probably start taking out Elephant Grass instead.

[btm10]

I'm usually terrified of a fast Thalia or a Gaddock Teeg against me when I'm playing Enchantress, Eidolon of Rhetoric sounds like one of the best sideboard cards against enchantress.

It is. My testing with Eidolon of Rhetoric quickly relegated it to the garbage pile. If you want to beat Storm for a local, run 4 Thoughtseize, 2 Stony Silence, and 3-4 Brain Maggot between main and side. If you're going to something larger, then just run Leyline of Sanctity (at least it has utility against Burn and UR) and/or abandon the matchup unless you're splashing blue for In the Eye of Chaos. Even then it's not like you're favored.

[Concordant]

I'm usually terrified of a fast Thalia or a Gaddock Teeg against me when I'm playing Enchantress, Eidolon of Rhetoric sounds like one of the best sideboard cards against enchantress.

The difference lies in which decks play Thalia, Eidolon or Teeg against you. Nobody denies that those cards slow us down a lot, the question is whether they slow down the opponent more. A deck like Maverick, DnT or Junk is hardly affected at all which means that they still win turn 5-6, whereas we might not be able to win/set up a lock until turn 7-10 (say) depending on the type of hate. On the other hand, agaist storm we might not be able to win until turn 7-10 but they are not able to win at all while the hate-card is in play.

TL;DR What matters isn't whether you get hit hard by a symmetric effect, but whether it hits the opponent harder than it hits you.

[The_Dingo]

Say goodbye to treasure cruise format. It was fun being so well positioned in that format. I just hope we don't end up back in a format dominated by BUG delver.

[Watersaw]

Say goodbye to treasure cruise format. It was fun being so well positioned in that format. I just hope we don't end up back in a format dominated by BUG delver.

Damn shame no one put up any real results. This deck needs more representation.

ANYWAY. Where does this leave us now? Solitary Confinement and Rest in Peace both get a bit worse, right? I can't see myself running 3 of each in the main anymore, probably will be shipping them to the side. At the same time Storm's performance should normalize a bit so I doubt I need 10 god damn slots for them, even though most of them are relevant in other matchups.

BGx gets better. bummer. Time to rev up those Suppression Fields.

EDIT: also this

The difference lies in which decks play Thalia, Eidolon or Teeg against you. Nobody denies that those cards slow us down a lot, the question is whether they slow down the opponent more. A deck like Maverick, DnT or Junk is hardly affected at all which means that they still win turn 5-6, whereas we might not be able to win/set up a lock until turn 7-10 (say) depending on the type of hate. On the other hand, agaist storm we might not be able to win until turn 7-10 but they are not able to win at all while the hate-card is in play.

TL;DR What matters isn't whether you get hit hard by a symmetric effect, but whether it hits the opponent harder than it hits you.

Thalia and Gaddock do throw a wrench in our plan, but the matches we want them they're even worse for our opponent. And we are more than capable of playing through them.

[Rakadis]

Stumbled on to this card the other day. Rise of the Hobgoblins And I thought it was somewhat interesting. The ability to make a lot of creatures seem interesting in some match ups. Either as blockers, a swarm finisher or Liliana of the Veil bait. Anyone have any experience with it? Or have any other enchantments that generate reliable creatures? (other then the ones that have been discussed to death, yes, I am looking at you Sigil of the Empty Throne )

[apple713]

Stumbled on to this card the other day. Rise of the Hobgoblins And I thought it was somewhat interesting. The ability to make a lot of creatures seem interesting in some match ups. Either as blockers, a swarm finisher or Liliana of the Veil bait. Anyone have any experience with it? Or have any other enchantments that generate reliable creatures? (other then the ones that have been discussed to death, yes, I am looking at you Sigil of the Empty Throne )

it may be worth noting that rise of the hobgoblins trigger on enter the battlefield which works well with replenish

[Watersaw]

it may be worth noting that rise of the hobgoblins trigger on enter the battlefield which works well with replenish

Could be cool with some sort of Flicker effect or a charged Cleansing Meditation. The latter would allow full reloads with Eidolon of Blossoms and Threshold might actually be achievable if you run Kruphix's Insight and Gitaxian Probe. Would have to cut Rest in Peace because we Delve now.

[The_Dingo]

I played in a local 5 round event today and I wanted to share one really terrible thing that I did and one really sweet thing that happened today. In R4 against patriot blade I had locked the game out at exactly 3 life. I was churning through my deck with 5 enchantresses out to find emrakul. So I have exactly five cards left in my deck and I think "sweet, cast one more enchantment, cast emrakul, take home the W" Well after I cast wild growth my opponent pointed out to me that I had a 6th enchantress on the board, and that I had just decked myself. Man was I embarrassed.

The high point of the day was my round 5 match against mono red sneak attack. G1 he cast through the breach on T2 putting in worldspine worm, and the game ended shortly thereafter. Game 2 I mulligan down to 4 passing up some keepable hands for some hate. Finally I keep GSZ, suppression field, sanctum, wild growth. On the play I put down a sanctum and pass. I'm hoping and praying and wishing... and on my draw step I rip a savannah off the top that lets me cast suppression field on T2. He passes the turn after casting gamble, and I get to zenith for teeg, because I'm pretty sure he only has sneak attack and through the breach to get his fatties into play. Long game short, I attack him down to dead with Teeg and dryad arbor in a super uneventful game except for the part where he hardcasts zodiac dragon, which I have a swords to plowshares for. In Game 3 I keep a 6 card with no enchantress effects that basically just makes mana. But it has a helm of obedience in it. So I ramp up, cast helm and activate it for 6 and the first card off the top of the deck is a world spine worm, which I use to kill him. It was pretty awesome.

[U_mage]

Played enchantress to 2-1-1 at a side event at SCG Indy

r1 played against a UR delver player who apparently didn't know that argothian has shroud/didn't want to play enough attention to a new card to read it thoroughly before letting it resolve, won games 1 & 2 fairly easily

r2 played against sneak and show in a very quick match loss

r3 played against MUD. g1 mulled to 4, opponent was knew so didn't know what forest->mirri's guile meant so he didn't board. game 2 i manage to grind out a win at one life through a chalice on 1, 2 trinispheres, and a lodestone golem. g3 he gets stuck on lands and i land a quick emrakul

R4 was an ID, but we played for fun. he was on belcher and i got g2 after he made some goblins, lost the other two games

had fun playing this for the first time, definitely glad i bothered to finish picking up the stuff for it right after i dropped from the main event

[jmlima]

Guys, quick and small question, looking for a deck to recommend to a buddy.

How good would this deck be in a meta circling around Miracles / ANT-TES / Delver variants , with the odd Stoneblade or Reanimator?

Thanks.

[porcupinetreeman]

Guys, quick and small question, looking for a deck to recommend to a buddy.

How good would this deck be in a meta circling around Miracles / ANT-TES / Delver variants , with the odd Stoneblade or Reanimator?

Thanks.

Delver and Stoneblade are pretty easy matchups.

ANT and Reanimator are tough matchups even with maindeck leylines and RIP.

Counterbalance is tough to beat also.

[jmlima]

Delver and Stoneblade are pretty easy matchups.

ANT and Reanimator are tough matchups even with maindeck leylines and RIP.

Counterbalance is tough to beat also.

Thanks.

The search continues. :wink:

[jaydprickett]

Hi guys! Here's another local Legacy report from over the weekend. Keeping with tradition I ended up going 3-1 beating everything fair and losing to fast combo. Here is the list I played -

4x Enchantress’s Presence
4x Argothian Enchantress
3x Green Sun’s Zenith

4x Wild Growth
4x Utopia Sprawl

3x Rest in Peace
2x Helm of Obedience
1x Emrakul, The Aeon’s Torn
1x Enlightened Tutor

3x Elephant Grass
3x Mirri’s Guile
3x Solitary Confinement
2x Journey to Nowhere
1x Oblivion Ring
1x Exploration

4x Serra’s Sanctum
4x Windswept Heath
1x Plains
1x Savannah
1x Karakas
10x Forest

SB
4 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Humility
1 Rest in Peace
1 Elephant Grass
2 Eidolon of Rhetoric
1 Rule of Law
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Sigil of the Empty Throne

Round 1 vs Miracles (Won 2-0)

I like our Miracles matchup, only scared of counterbalance, and even that isn't terrible unless they keep it for 10+ turns and can set up the lock

Game 1: As with most games against Miracles he counters my first Enchantress affect, and then Terminus's my 2nd Argothian. Unfortunately for him Green Sun's and Argothians that shuffle back into the library poses problems.I eventually start drawing 3-4 cards a turn and hit Emrakul.

Game 2: I fought through counterbalance/top for awhile until I can hit Oblivion Ring on Counterbalance. He eventually Entreats for 5 Angels, and I am at 20. I have an amazing turn that starts with only 1 Argothian, few growth's, and a Rest in Peace on the board. I play a Growth and hit Presence, I play Presence and hit Guile, play Guile and hit Sanctum + Helm of Obedience, game!

Round 2 vs Miracles (Won 2-1)

Game 1: He can't kill me fast enough as I assemble Helm/RiP around turn 10 or so.

Game 2: He locks me out with Counterbalance/Top. He countered/terminused/judgement at least 4 Enchantress effects.

Game 3: Another long grindy game. I fought through counterbalance/top by casting Green Sun's for 4 (CC 5) to get Reclamation Sage and eventually assembled Emrakul.

Round 3 vs Punishing Jund (Won 2-0)

Game 1: I blow him out. He durdled around with Deahtrite into Tarmogoyf into Bloodbraid into Dark Confidant. Great aggro start but I Journey the Tarmogoyf, eat some damage and Helm/RiP him out as he doesn't do anything of note.

Game 2: This was a little bit closer as he Thoughtseizes turn 1 and casts Hymn turn 2. Lucky for me Hymn misses my Presence and he doesn't have much of a clock. He burns an Abrupt Decay on my Elephant Grass and I untap and tutor up Helm to go with my RiP in hand.

Round 4 vs Show & Tell/Hive Mind (Lost 0-2)

uggghhh

Game 1: He casts turn 2 Show and Tell into Hive Mind into Lotus Petal into Ponder into Pact of Negation saying go.

Game 2: I made a huge blunder by not bringing in Reclamation Sage. I didn't think it would be relevant as he kills me the same turn as he casts Show and Tell. BUT since I had so many dead cards I brought in Rule of Law/Eidolon to slow him down. So of course I land Eidolon, he puts Hive Mind into play, my turn I have a Green Suns but didn't bring in the Sage!!! I had to pass back as he plays Pact of Titan and I didn't have Utopia Sprawl to name red with :frown:

A horrible match-up but I still need to play smart and SB correctly to give myself a chance

Finished 3-1

This is about par for the course with Enchantress. Good games against non graveyard based combo. Show and Tell is the worse card for us to see unfortunately. I still love playing the deck and would be happy taking it to every tournament. The deck is good people.

Journey to Nowhere was good in Round 3 and was terrible in the other rounds obviously. Not sure it will be MD still. I just played against match-ups where it was irrelevant. That's what I enjoy about Legacy, so many different decks to play against.

[Watersaw]

Hi guys! Here's another local Legacy report from over the weekend. Keeping with tradition I ended up going 3-1 beating everything fair and losing to fast combo. Here is the list I played -

4x Enchantress’s Presence
4x Argothian Enchantress
3x Green Sun’s Zenith

4x Wild Growth
4x Utopia Sprawl

3x Rest in Peace
2x Helm of Obedience
1x Emrakul, The Aeon’s Torn
1x Enlightened Tutor

3x Elephant Grass
3x Mirri’s Guile
3x Solitary Confinement
2x Journey to Nowhere
1x Oblivion Ring
1x Exploration

4x Serra’s Sanctum
4x Windswept Heath
1x Plains
1x Savannah
1x Karakas
10x Forest

SB
4 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Humility
1 Rest in Peace
1 Elephant Grass
2 Eidolon of Rhetoric
1 Rule of Law
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Sigil of the Empty Throne

Round 1 vs Miracles (Won 2-0)

I like our Miracles matchup, only scared of counterbalance, and even that isn't terrible unless they keep it for 10+ turns and can set up the lock

Game 1: As with most games against Miracles he counters my first Enchantress affect, and then Terminus's my 2nd Argothian. Unfortunately for him Green Sun's and Argothians that shuffle back into the library poses problems.I eventually start drawing 3-4 cards a turn and hit Emrakul.

Game 2: I fought through counterbalance/top for awhile until I can hit Oblivion Ring on Counterbalance. He eventually Entreats for 5 Angels, and I am at 20. I have an amazing turn that starts with only 1 Argothian, few growth's, and a Rest in Peace on the board. I play a Growth and hit Presence, I play Presence and hit Guile, play Guile and hit Sanctum + Helm of Obedience, game!

Round 2 vs Miracles (Won 2-1)

Game 1: He can't kill me fast enough as I assemble Helm/RiP around turn 10 or so.

Game 2: He locks me out with Counterbalance/Top. He countered/terminused/judgement at least 4 Enchantress effects.

Game 3: Another long grindy game. I fought through counterbalance/top by casting Green Sun's for 4 (CC 5) to get Reclamation Sage and eventually assembled Emrakul.

Round 3 vs Punishing Jund (Won 2-0)

Game 1: I blow him out. He durdled around with Deahtrite into Tarmogoyf into Bloodbraid into Dark Confidant. Great aggro start but I Journey the Tarmogoyf, eat some damage and Helm/RiP him out as he doesn't do anything of note.

Game 2: This was a little bit closer as he Thoughtseizes turn 1 and casts Hymn turn 2. Lucky for me Hymn misses my Presence and he doesn't have much of a clock. He burns an Abrupt Decay on my Elephant Grass and I untap and tutor up Helm to go with my RiP in hand.

Round 4 vs Show & Tell/Hive Mind (Lost 0-2)

uggghhh

Game 1: He casts turn 2 Show and Tell into Hive Mind into Lotus Petal into Ponder into Pact of Negation saying go.

Game 2: I made a huge blunder by not bringing in Reclamation Sage. I didn't think it would be relevant as he kills me the same turn as he casts Show and Tell. BUT since I had so many dead cards I brought in Rule of Law/Eidolon to slow him down. So of course I land Eidolon, he puts Hive Mind into play, my turn I have a Green Suns but didn't bring in the Sage!!! I had to pass back as he plays Pact of Titan and I didn't have Utopia Sprawl to name red with :frown:

A horrible match-up but I still need to play smart and SB correctly to give myself a chance

Finished 3-1

This is about par for the course with Enchantress. Good games against non graveyard based combo. Show and Tell is the worse card for us to see unfortunately. I still love playing the deck and would be happy taking it to every tournament. The deck is good people.

Journey to Nowhere was good in Round 3 and was terrible in the other rounds obviously. Not sure it will be MD still. I just played against match-ups where it was irrelevant. That's what I enjoy about Legacy, so many different decks to play against.

How have Eidolon of Rhetoric and Rule of Law been performing in the board? Have you been able to reliably win the game before they answer it and kill you? Also, what does Sigil come in for, control matches I guess?

3 Humility just seems mean. I love it.

I feel like the Miracles matchup comes down to how many counterspells they cars by turn 5. Suppression Field murders them.

Consider switching Journey to Nowhere for some number of Banishing Light or Song of the Dryads maybe?

And hell yeah the deck is good.

[lambert101]

Hi all! In the past 6 months I have sold out of legacy blue staples. In doing so I miss playing legacy---stupid I know. I was looking at picking this up for the rare occasions I get to play and came up with the following list:

4 Argothian Enchantress
4 Enchantress's Presence
4 Kruphix's Insight
4 Sterling Grove
1 Slyvan Library
1 Suppression Field
1 Oblivion Ring
2 Solitary Confinement
4 Elephant Grass
1 Sphere of Safety
4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Wild Growth
3 Rest in Peace
1 Helm of Obedience
1 Sigil of the Empty Throne
1 Exploration

1 Karakas
1 Bayou
1 Savannah
4 Serra's Sanctum
3 Plains
4 Windswept Heath
6 Forest

Sideboard:
4 tidehollow sculler
2 Engineered Plague
4 Brain Maggot
2 Stony Silence
3 krosan grip

The idea was to have as many "card filtering cards in the main and to make the sideboard very anti combo and miracles. The main can stall with all the stupid delivers. Please let me
Know what you all think.

[The_Dingo]

Played in a 5 round weekly on Sunday. Went 3-2 with both losses being to elves in rounds 2 and 5. The SB options against elves all seem so devastating, but none of them are really fast enough. Anyways, a quick tournament report.

R1 vs dredge 2-0. My opponent was very new to the deck, and missed lots of bridge triggers, and also didn't see a lot of cabal therapy action. Won the first game with angel tokens, and the 2nd with a concession to RiP.

R2 vs elves 0-2. My opponent is on the play and goes off T3. Game 2 I keep a very respectable 7 and am dead on turn 3 again. Perhaps I should have mulled deep looking for grafdiggers cage, although it ended up not mattering since he had a very good glimpse hand that let him draw his whole library and hit me for lethal with gigantic craterhoof.

R3 vs RUG delver 2-1. He takes g1 with a T1 delver that flips off a upkeep brainstorm into multiple bolts when my life total was low enough. I side in the helm rip combo for games 2 and 3 and combo him out in game 2. Game 3 was officially the grind. RIP and elephant grass stave off a largish contingent of mongeese and mongoyfs, and the unluckiest delver in the world, which absolutely just doesn't want to flip. Anyway, I win this one with sigil making a largish army of angels.

R4 vs BUG nic fit 2-1. This was a great match. I find that being on the replenish plan MD helps a lot in various pernicious deed MUs, which I face surprisingly frequently. Anyway, G1 he grinds me down over the course of ~30 minutes, and just when I think I can stabilize he uses eternal witness to recur deed and blow my board to swing in for lethal. Game 2 my opponent misplays and forgets to flashback cabal therapy naming replenish before blowing deed. I get to replenish with an eidolon in the GY. He scoops in order to move to game 3 with enough time to finish the match. G3 I kept a very good hand with multiple redundant enchantress effects. On t5 of turns I replenish into a solid lock, and my opponent concedes to the emrakul in my hand that I can cast next turn. He didn't have to scoop, and I'm grateful that he did.

R5 vs elves 0-2. On the draw I die on turn 3, on the play I end up facing down a ruric thar on T3, with no chance of successfully establishing a solitary lock in time before I'm dead.

[skyout]

Played in a 5 round weekly on Sunday. Went 3-2 with both losses being to elves in rounds 2 and 5. The SB options against elves all seem so devastating, but none of them are really fast enough. Anyways, a quick tournament report.

R1 vs dredge 2-0. My opponent was very new to the deck, and missed lots of bridge triggers, and also didn't see a lot of cabal therapy action. Won the first game with angel tokens, and the 2nd with a concession to RiP.

R2 vs elves 0-2. My opponent is on the play and goes off T3. Game 2 I keep a very respectable 7 and am dead on turn 3 again. Perhaps I should have mulled deep looking for grafdiggers cage, although it ended up not mattering since he had a very good glimpse hand that let him draw his whole library and hit me for lethal with gigantic craterhoof.

R3 vs RUG delver 2-1. He takes g1 with a T1 delver that flips off a upkeep brainstorm into multiple bolts when my life total was low enough. I side in the helm rip combo for games 2 and 3 and combo him out in game 2. Game 3 was officially the grind. RIP and elephant grass stave off a largish contingent of mongeese and mongoyfs, and the unluckiest delver in the world, which absolutely just doesn't want to flip. Anyway, I win this one with sigil making a largish army of angels.

R4 vs BUG nic fit 2-1. This was a great match. I find that being on the replenish plan MD helps a lot in various pernicious deed MUs, which I face surprisingly frequently. Anyway, G1 he grinds me down over the course of ~30 minutes, and just when I think I can stabilize he uses eternal witness to recur deed and blow my board to swing in for lethal. Game 2 my opponent misplays and forgets to flashback cabal therapy naming replenish before blowing deed. I get to replenish with an eidolon in the GY. He scoops in order to move to game 3 with enough time to finish the match. G3 I kept a very good hand with multiple redundant enchantress effects. On t5 of turns I replenish into a solid lock, and my opponent concedes to the emrakul in my hand that I can cast next turn. He didn't have to scoop, and I'm grateful that he did.

R5 vs elves 0-2. On the draw I die on turn 3, on the play I end up facing down a ruric thar on T3, with no chance of successfully establishing a solitary lock in time before I'm dead.

I was your round 3 opponent. The Delver of Secrets flips we're pretty unfortunate, though I probably should have been attacking into you with my Nimble Mongoose. I was afraid of you getting the combo against me, so I was holding up answers for it instead of attacking. I would say the best card in that matchup was your Rest in Peace and Elephant Grass. It really kept me from being able to build up a critical mass of damage. The nail in the coffin was the Suppression Field followed by the Solitary Confinement. I had enough burn to get you, but just not able to string enough damage together before getting killed by angels.

[The_Dingo]

I was your round 3 opponent. The Delver of Secrets flips we're pretty unfortunate, though I probably should have been attacking into you with my Nimble Mongoose. I was afraid of you getting the combo against me, so I was holding up answers for it instead of attacking. I would say the best card in that matchup was your Rest in Peace and Elephant Grass. It really kept me from being able to build up a critical mass of damage. The nail in the coffin was the Suppression Field followed by the Solitary Confinement. I had enough burn to get you, but just not able to string enough damage together before getting killed by angels.

It was a good match. You had me real worried after the amount of burn I saw game 1, and game 3 would have been a very different story I think had that delver flipped.

[Rakadis]

So, gentlemen, any thoughts on this?

http://media.wizards.com/2015/dftyuvbd564776rvf/en_GpZCLoKBHh.png

[btm10]

So, gentlemen, any thoughts on this?

http://media.wizards.com/2015/dftyuvbd564776rvf/en_GpZCLoKBHh.png

Not a fan. It doesn't improve any bad matchups and dilutes the deck and is win more in good ones.

[Watersaw]

So, gentlemen, any thoughts on this?

http://media.wizards.com/2015/dftyuvbd564776rvf/en_GpZCLoKBHh.png


Not a fan. It doesn't improve any bad matchups and dilutes the deck and is win more in good ones.

For what it's worth, I think she's better than Sigarda, Host of Herons if you're going full prison with Sigil of the Empty Throne and want a GSZ finisher, but yeah. Otherwise, I'd probably double up on Eidolon of Blossoms before running her seriously.

Still, it's worth a test I think.

[btm10]

On a somewhat related note, moving to Philly has left me in a local meta flooded with Miracles, so I may be playing Enchantress more regularly now. I've been doing some aggressive gauntlet testing (20 games each, preboard and post) with the following list and it seems good so far. RUG Delver is the only matchup that's fully tested, and it came out to exactly 50/50. More testing may move the needle one way or another, but this is basically what I expected. I'm going to need to find opponents for some of these decks because I'm not proficient with them, but I have good partners for Delver and midrange decks so that's where I'm starting.

4 Argothian Enchantress
4 Enchantress's Presence
2 Eidolon of Blossoms
3 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Replenish

4 Wild Growth
4 Utopia Sprawl
3 Elephant Grass
3 Sterling Grove
3 Mirri's Guile
2 Rest in Peace
2 Solitary Confinement
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Sphere of Safety

1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Sigil of the Empty Throne

7 Forest
2 Plains
4 Windswept Heath
1 Savannah
2 Serra's Sanctum
2 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Taiga

Sideboard
1 Carpet of Flowers
1 Blood Moon
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Suppression Field
1 Stony Silence
2 Choke
1 Oblivion Ring
2 Swords to Plowshares
1 Rest in Peace

I'd like to get an MD Blood Moon in, and I think the cut is probably Oblivion Ring, though it is a good utility Enchantment. I'm also torn on cutting the 5th Fetch for Karakas and the SB RiP for a third Swords.

[The_Dingo]

On a somewhat related note, moving to Philly has left me in a local meta flooded with Miracles, so I may be playing Enchantress more regularly now. I've been doing some aggressive gauntlet testing (20 games each, preboard and post) with the following list and it seems good so far. RUG Delver is the only matchup that's fully tested, and it came out to exactly 50/50. More testing may move the needle one way or another, but this is basically what I expected. I'm going to need to find opponents for some of these decks because I'm not proficient with them, but I have good partners for Delver and midrange decks so that's where I'm starting.

4 Argothian Enchantress
4 Enchantress's Presence
2 Eidolon of Blossoms
3 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Replenish

4 Wild Growth
4 Utopia Sprawl
3 Elephant Grass
3 Sterling Grove
3 Mirri's Guile
2 Rest in Peace
2 Solitary Confinement
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Sphere of Safety

1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Sigil of the Empty Throne

7 Forest
2 Plains
4 Windswept Heath
1 Savannah
2 Serra's Sanctum
2 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Taiga

Sideboard
1 Carpet of Flowers
1 Blood Moon
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Suppression Field
1 Stony Silence
2 Choke
1 Oblivion Ring
2 Swords to Plowshares
1 Rest in Peace

I'd like to get an MD Blood Moon in, and I think the cut is probably Oblivion Ring, though it is a good utility Enchantment. I'm also torn on cutting the 5th Fetch for Karakas and the SB RiP for a third Swords.

I have 3 questions for you. I'm sorry if you have addressed these questions in this forum in the past, but some of your tech is novel to me.

1) Is having RIP and replenish both mainboard ever problematic for you? Related to that question why play 2 RiP MD if you aren't on the helm plan? Do you anticipate lots of Loam, or dredge and other GY centric strategies?

2) Why have you decided to forgo helm of obedience entirely?

3) I'm curious about the chalices in the SB. Which MUs are they for and what do you set them at.

Also, good luck at EE2. I had plans to go but everything fell through this weekend.

[btm10]

I have 3 questions for you. I'm sorry if you have addressed these questions in this forum in the past, but some of your tech is novel to me.


No problem.



1) Is having RIP and replenish both mainboard ever problematic for you? Related to that question why play 2 RiP MD if you aren't on the helm plan? Do you anticipate lots of Loam, or dredge and other GY centric strategies?

I wanted at least one Rest in Peace main as a Grove target and the second is probably a holdover from the last time I aas running RiP/Helm. I haven't experienced much tension between RiP and Replenish, but there is a bit of dyssynergy between them.



2) Why have you decided to forgo helm of obedience entirely?

There are several reasons: dissynergy between Helm and sideboard cards like Suppresion Field and Stony Silence, Helm being both untutorable and unprotected by Sterling Grove, Helm being easily hit by opposing sideboard cards like Pithing Needle, Null Rod, Revoker, and Grip, and Helm being weak on its own and un-Replenishable. Emrakul accounts for well over half of my wins at this point so I want my secondary wincon to be as robust as possible.




3) I'm curious about the chalices in the SB. Which MUs are they for and what do you set them at.


I'm trying them against combo, mostly ANT/TES and Omni/Sneak. Against the Storm decks they get set to 0 (if I don't have Stony Silence) and 1 (if I do). They get set to 1 against the Show and Tell decks, and 3 if I can survive that long. I'll post about how the plan works out once I test the matchups.



Also, good luck at EE2. I had plans to go but everything fell through this weekend.

Thanks! I don't think I'll be able to make the Legacy portion, and I'll probably play BUG Delver if I make it, but thanks. I'm not fully back into the swing with Enchantress and the list just isn't tested enough for me to bring it to a big event right now. The biggest thing I can say about this list is that the games I've played againat RUG and BUG Delver have convinced me that running fewer than 2 Eidolon of Blossoms is almost certainly wrong. The ability to draw off of GSZ has dramatically improved its functioning in the deck and had made the Confinememt lock much more stable.

EDIT: Dear god. Genesis Hydra. Will post a list soon.

[ethebubbeth]

EDIT: Dear god. Genesis Hydra. Will post a list soon.

At first I wondered why hydra over wave, but then I realized you get the effect with hydra even if it's countered. Then, if it does resolve, the body is probably rather nice and out of abrupt decay range :D

I look forward to your list.

[Dihensoeur]

Myth Realized
Enchantment
Whenever you cast a noncreature spell, put a lore counter on Myth Realized.
2W: Put a lore counter on Myth Realized.
W: Until end of turn, Myth Realized becomes a Monk Avatar creature in addition to its other types and gains "This creature's power and toughness are each equal to the number of lore counters on it.


I think you should play this x4 and use it for kill instead of Sigil/Emrakul.

Regards,
Dihensoeur.

[simdude]

I think you should play this x4 and use it for kill instead of Sigil/Emrakul.

Regards,
Dihensoeur.

While I am open to brewing with anything, and Sigil would be one of the first things to go for an alternate win-con I don't think I could ever be convinced to take Emrakul out of the deck. Emrakul does everything you could ever want. It can't be countered, it reshuffles the graveyard, it goes infinite with Karakas, and it gives us something meaty to put in vs. Show and Tell.

What an interesting card though. My initial thoughts are that it's a bit awkward since to me the best time you could drop this is turn one but then you're not playing a wild growth effect turn one. I've recently taken exploration out of my build but maybe they work well together since you can get a second land and play this, especially if you're playing multiples.

[B is for Big Job]

I think you should play this x4 and use it for kill instead of Sigil/Emrakul.

Regards,
Dihensoeur.

It's not bad but it needs Sterling Grove to give it shroud so it won't be swords/decayed/insert other removal spell. Plus if you play Moat he would just be a wall :/

[U_mage]

Yea, biggest problem seems to be that it turns on removal for our opponent. I'm also not a fan of it's lack of evasion

[jaydprickett]

The animated monk being able to block is a thing though. I don't know whether it will be good enough but it deserves a shot. Animating to make a 5/5 or 6/6 blocker seems good. Also games 2/3 when they side out their creature removal makes it much better.

[btm10]

At first I wondered why hydra over wave, but then I realized you get the effect with hydra even if it's countered. Then, if it does resolve, the body is probably rather nice and out of abrupt decay range :D

I look forward to your list.

Testing showed him to be mostly win-more. Casting Hydra for X=3 or 4 on turn 3 is a beating against some decks like RUG Delver, but most of the time he's too easy to kill because he dies to Decay and Swords no matter how big he is and if you're able to generate the 8-10 mana for him to be truly degenerate, you're probably winning anyway.

That being said, Hydra encouraged building the test deck in a way that both encouraged the Devotion angle (he both fuels Nykthos and wants as much mana as possible) and presented tension with the engine (because the cards you put in off of him aren't cast, you don't draw for them). To help with both of these, I added a third copy of Eidolon and was VERY impressed. If you're running multiple Groves she's nearly as good as Argothian and is positively busted with GSZ, Nykthos, and Replenish.


I think you should play this x4 and use it for kill instead of Sigil/Emrakul.

Regards,
Dihensoeur.

This is worse than both Hoofprints of the Stag and Luminarch Ascention, which are both worse than Words of War, Sacred Mesa, and Sigil.

[siqatzi]

This is worse than both Hoofprints of the Stag and Luminarch Ascention, which are both worse than Words of War, Sacred Mesa, and Sigil.

idk - all of Luminarch Ascension, Hoofprints of the Stag and this have the disadvantage that they're relatively useless unless you're winning anyway. But that's also true of Emrakul. This being an enchantment that costs only :w:, meaning that with an untapped Serra's Sanctum it costs zero net, seems quite relevant? Might be worth trying at least.

[The_Dingo]

When evaluating win conditions I always look at the inevitability the card provides and how many slots it takes up. Emrakul is simply the best from that point of view, because he is nearly impossible to remove and takes exactly 1 slot. Other win cons like sigil provide inevitability by going wide with a swath of creatures.

By contrast Myth Realized is easily removed, provides very little utility for the 4 slots it would probably need, and can be chump blocked until the end of time. In summary it takes up too much space in the deck and provides too little utility for that space, It can be chumped until the end of time, and will probably just eat a plow that otherwise would have been totally dead.

Just as a thought experiment, think about the number of times you have lost after casting emrakul. I've lost just one time after casting emrakul. Now think about the number of times you've lost after casting sigil of the empty throne. Probably a few more times than with emrakul, but still not frequently I bet. Now imagine casting myth realized. You've already lost because you are playing myth realized.

After being very critical of a pretty decent card I'm going to advocate a very bad one. I would totally love to play assault formation as my win con and kill people with argothian enchantress just for the yucks.

[Rakadis]

We have a new one. Thoughts?

http://cdn.magicspoiler.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/Silkwrap.jpg

[FoolofaTook]

We have a new one. Thoughts?

http://cdn.magicspoiler.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/Silkwrap.jpg

Why would you use this over Journey to Nowhere?

[Rakadis]

Why would you use this over Journey to Nowhere?

In my excitement I kind of forgot. Sorry about that.

[Watersaw]

For what it's worth, Myth Realized isn't very good against Death & Taxes, more so because i cut Suppression Field to try it out. Whatever, I usually win with Emrakul, the Aeons Torn against them anyway. The card certainly feels interesting. Even if it's dead on board, it's a one mana draw X. The fact that it can come down turn 1 and threaten is cool.

What's interesting is how it's essentially the opposite of our current win-conditions, since we actually want to get it on the board as early as possible. Gonna test against some other things.



4 Argothian Enchantress
4 Enchantress's Presence
2 Eidolon of Blossoms
3 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Replenish

4 Wild Growth
4 Utopia Sprawl
3 Elephant Grass
3 Sterling Grove
3 Mirri's Guile
2 Rest in Peace
2 Solitary Confinement
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Sphere of Safety

1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Sigil of the Empty Throne

7 Forest
2 Plains
4 Windswept Heath
1 Savannah
2 Serra's Sanctum
2 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Taiga

Sideboard
1 Carpet of Flowers
1 Blood Moon
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Suppression Field
1 Stony Silence
2 Choke
1 Oblivion Ring
2 Swords to Plowshares
1 Rest in Peace


I actually like this list a lot. I'm not sure how I feel about 3 RIP and no Helm in the 75, but if you don't need it don't run it. Chalice of the Void actually seems really sweet, god knows we have no problem winning in spite of one. Especially since you're on the Sigil of the Empty Throne plan.


Testing showed him to be mostly win-more. Casting Hydra for X=3 or 4 on turn 3 is a beating against some decks like RUG Delver, but most of the time he's too easy to kill because he dies to Decay and Swords no matter how big he is and if you're able to generate the 8-10 mana for him to be truly degenerate, you're probably winning anyway.

That being said, Hydra encouraged building the test deck in a way that both encouraged the Devotion angle (he both fuels Nykthos and wants as much mana as possible) and presented tension with the engine (because the cards you put in off of him aren't cast, you don't draw for them). To help with both of these, I added a third copy of Eidolon and was VERY impressed. If you're running multiple Groves she's nearly as good as Argothian and is positively busted with GSZ, Nykthos, and Replenish.

Eidolon of Blossoms is crazy in multiples. I'm a bit sketch about going up to 3, but the second one makes the first so much stronger it's insane.
EDIT: I mean multiples in the deck. Having access to it through GSZ is sometimes enough to save your life, but the second or third and a Replenish plan C means you can always get back in the game. I'm a fan.

[btm10]

For what it's worth, Myth Realized isn't very good against Death & Taxes, more so because i cut Suppression Field to try it out. Whatever, I usually win with Emrakul, the Aeons Torn against them anyway. The card certainly feels interesting. Even if it's dead on board, it's a one mana draw X. The fact that it can come down turn 1 and threaten is cool.

What's interesting is how it's essentially the opposite of our current win-conditions, since we actually want to get it on the board as early as possible. Gonna test against some other things.


I'm very skeptical, but I'd be interested in your testing results.



I actually like this list a lot. I'm not sure how I feel about 3 RIP and no Helm in the 75, but if you don't need it don't run it. Chalice of the Void actually seems really sweet, god knows we have no problem winning in spite of one. Especially since you're on the Sigil of the Empty Throne plan.


Chalice was run in the past (2008-ish?), and I'm very torn between having it or just conceding the Storm matchup altogether. If I do that, I'll probably change to a black splash for SB Dread of Night, Engineered Plague, and Brain Maggot against Death and Taxes, Elves and Show and Tell, respectively. If that happened I'd probably cut Blind Obedience from the board and replace Sphere of Safety with The Abyss.

As for Helm and Sigil, I think the difference is small, but that I probably want to switch the MD Rest in Peace for Wheel of Sun and Moon or Ground Seal if I'm not running Helm. So far in testing the list I've won a game with Sigil that RiP/Helm wouldn't have won me and lost a game that RiP/Helm would've won. If I go to Helm, I might swap one or both Replenishes for Argivian Finds



Eidolon of Blossoms is crazy in multiples. I'm a bit sketch about going up to 3, but the second one makes the first so much stronger it's insane.
EDIT: I mean multiples in the deck. Having access to it through GSZ is sometimes enough to save your life, but the second or third and a Replenish plan C means you can always get back in the game. I'm a fan.

I think 2 vs. 3 vs. 4 is something to test. 3 could easily be wrong, but multiples are really strong, and at least 2 is probably correct at this point.


I'm trying to build a comprehensive log of testing results for the deck and keeping a results sheet (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1YrzXetgn_VsPjZbn3ry02t7dvvi3EJ8G_e1IGNfWEoA/edit?usp=sharing) on Google Docs. If anyone wants to contribute, let me know. Also, I haven't heard anything from Freggle about the Primer update, so I might just start writing one myself and contact a mod about it.

[Freggle]

...I haven't heard anything from Freggle ...

Hey sorry I have been taking a bit of a hiatus from Magic while I pursue other hobbies more hard core (violin, brewing, others) and my play has gone way down, however having said that I would still love to work on the primer. All I have are written outlines and then information in my head at this point. I'm a bit rusty on these last couple blocks, but I don't see anything that would easily make the cut.

I think the best way to start the primer is show a decision tree of Enchantress building any why certain choices should exclude or lesson other choices and what meta each branch is better in. Just a thought.

[The Etched Champion]

HOLY GOD DOES Myth realized makes this deck playable right?

[B is for Big Job]

HOLY GOD DOES Myth realized makes this deck playable right?

Scroll up, check the previous page and all your questions will be answered

[mikeshimoji]

Maybe answered already, but can I use shocks instead of duals? Looking into enchantress as second deck (Merfolk main) and with children and a house, don't have the capacity to buy duals? I'm assuming since you mostly fetch basics, you can run shocks, is that not so? Any guidance for this noob will be helpful.

[ESG]

Maybe answered already, but can I use shocks instead of duals? Looking into enchantress as second deck (Merfolk main) and with children and a house, don't have the capacity to buy duals? I'm assuming since you mostly fetch basics, you can run shocks, is that not so? Any guidance for this noob will be helpful.

Absolutely. It all depends on how you choose to build the deck. I've won 15-20 dual lands with this deck over the years, and I used only basic lands to do it. If you play all basics, you should treat the deck as either base-green or base-white and only minimally splash the second color. If you decide you need or want a heavier splash, or if you decide you need to double splash, then you'll need duals or shocks. Shocks will either slow you down a little or take a turn off the clock (this will be most noticeable if you play against tempo decks), so plan for that when building. Abundant Growth and Lotus Petal are two inexpensive ways to fix your colors. Carpet of Flowers is a strong card if you play against a lot of blue decks. My opinion is that it's better to play a budget version than to not play at all. Budget versions can and do prize in tournaments, just not often. Your direction with building the deck ought to be informed by the other decks you expect to face at area tournaments.

Personally, I feel that Enchantress has been poorly positioned for almost two years now, so I rarely play it anymore, but there are certainly metagames where the deck could be a decent choice.

[mikeshimoji]

Absolutely. It all depends on how you choose to build the deck. I've won 15-20 dual lands with this deck over the years, and I used only basic lands to do it. If you play all basics, you should treat the deck as either base-green or base-white and only minimally splash the second color. If you decide you need or want a heavier splash, or if you decide you need to double splash, then you'll need duals or shocks. Shocks will either slow you down a little or take a turn off the clock (this will be most noticeable if you play against tempo decks), so plan for that when building. Abundant Growth and Lotus Petal are two inexpensive ways to fix your colors. Carpet of Flowers is a strong card if you play against a lot of blue decks. My opinion is that it's better to play a budget version than to not play at all. Budget versions can and do prize in tournaments, just not often. Your direction with building the deck ought to be informed by the other decks you expect to face at area tournaments.

Personally, I feel that Enchantress has been poorly positioned for almost two years now, so I rarely play it anymore, but there are certainly metagames where the deck could be a decent choice.

Do you think it is still poorly positioned, even with the million enchantments printed? I feel like this deck (have been playing legacy for over 4 years, just tier 1 decks) is a diamond in the rough how elf was before behemoth and new legend rule.

[btm10]

Do you think it is still poorly positioned, even with the million enchantments printed? I feel like this deck (have been playing legacy for over 4 years, just tier 1 decks) is a diamond in the rough how elf was before behemoth and new legend rule.

I think it'll be poorly positioned until Show and Tell gets banned or Earthcraft gets unbanned. Right now it's too close to 50/50 against the top 'fair' decks, weak against Sneak and Show and Reanimator, and has atrocious matchups against ANT, TES, and Omni, with Omni being by far the worst of these. An Earthcraft unban would make most of your matchups against 'fair' decks favorable by speeding the deck up something like 1.5-2 turns based on my testing with it.

I played Enchantress a lot in Vintage (~2001-2004, basically until GAT showed up) and then again once I picked up Legacy, and have also had a lot of success with it over the years (duals, a Mox Pearl way back in the day). I occasionally play it at locals still if the room looks like it's full of Miracles and creature decks. But as much as I love the deck, you can't ever bring most combo up to 40/60, even postboard, against competent opponents. This was fine back in the day when combo was both less prevalent and held in check by favorable matchups, but I don't think Enchantress has been a good choice for an open meta at least since mid-2013, and hasn't been tier 1 since Mental Misstep was banned.

[mikeshimoji]

I think it'll be poorly positioned until Show and Tell gets banned or Earthcraft gets unbanned. Right now it's too close to 50/50 against the top 'fair' decks, weak against Sneak and Show and Reanimator, and has atrocious matchups against ANT, TES, and Omni, with Omni being by far the worst of these. An Earthcraft unban would make most of your matchups against 'fair' decks favorable by speeding the deck up something like 1.5-2 turns based on my testing with it.

I played Enchantress a lot in Vintage (~2001-2004, basically until GAT showed up) and then again once I picked up Legacy, and have also had a lot of success with it over the years (duals, a Mox Pearl way back in the day). I occasionally play it at locals still if the room looks like it's full of Miracles and creature decks. But as much as I love the deck, you can't ever bring most combo up to 40/60, even postboard, against competent opponents. This was fine back in the day when combo was both less prevalent and held in check by favorable matchups, but I don't think Enchantress has been a good choice for an open meta at least since mid-2013, and hasn't been tier 1 since Mental Misstep was banned.

Very interesting and helpful analysis. Do you think the deck that went 4-0 in daily with four living wishes help alleviate the bad combo matchups at all?

[Jamaican Zombie Legend]

I love the deck to death, and it's a blast to play, but from a competitive standpoint it's extremely poorly positioned in the metagame and I don't see Enchantress moving into a better spot anytime soon. Solitary Confinement-based Enchantress' biggest draw was always how effective it was against any deck that relied upon the combat step to win the game. But it can't boast such nowadays.

Dedicated, linear aggro decks (e.g. Madness, Goblins, Zoo) are practically nonexistent outside of some folks plugging away with them because they generally enjoy playing with them. It's no longer a large part of the greater metagame, and as such, Enchantress' overall matchups are a bit diminished; less stuff the deck is good against in the meta is bad for the deck's competitive ability.

And the remaining decks that win via combat have gained a whole bunch of game against Enchantress (or already had some). There aren't really any easy matchups anymore. Going up against Blue Tempo, assorted B/G/x archetypes, Death&Taxes, and even Infect isn't going to be easy; all these decks can effectively disrupt your gameplay and/or put you on a clock. Solitary isn't even robust against any deck with Deathrite Shaman unless you're running the Helm of Obedience / Rest in Peace package (which I really should give another try at this point)

And the combo matchup, aside from Dredge, is as miserable as ever. There's hardly any way within the deck's confines to interact with stack-based combo, and most of those cards are too slow, too ineffectual, or too easily responded to. Even Elves, in my experience, isn't favorable; it's too easy for them to tutor up an answer to any prison-effect you have on board. Maybe the G/W/b version of 'Tress can fight against the pointy-eared menace...I don't have much experience on that end.

The meta really doesn't favor the deck all that much. You can still grind out wins, and maybe tailor a sideboard full of silver bullets to a small meta, but placing in any large event or winning with consistency is gonna be difficult.

[Freggle]

Question 1: Do you need duals?
No. As a matter of fact many lists I run play 0 copies of any type of dual (shock or not)

Debated Statement: Is Enchantress viable?

Yes, but it’s not easy, and will require a lot of work to get good enough with the deck that it has to be a labor of love or the deck will not work for you. There are many things currently working against the deck. Here are the main ones:

BGx getting the following cards:

Abrupt Decay, Golgari Charm

Prior to these cards BGx matches were heavily favored because they could not interact with out “locks” now they have main deck hate.
Sigarda & Oring effects for Strix seems like a good plan b, but is relatively untested.

Storm:
Storm was always an issue, but is mitigated well with. Gaddock Teeg (Green Sun’s for Gaddock), Stony Silence, and to a lesser extent Leyline of Sanctity There may be additional insurance in Runed Halo
Sterling Grove IMO is just not good here.

Omnitel:
Beatable with Banishing Light, Oblivion Ring, Seal of Primordium or helm combo.

Gaddock also does a lot of work here.

Elves:
Elves when from poor to horrible with the printing of Reclamation Sage.
Gaddock is a decent way to Fight elves, but you need to close them quick. Some sweet tech for Elves may be Torpor Orb
All the rest of the match-ups in the decks to beat for the GW Helm list (no duals) Are / were 50/50 or favorable.

In summary Enchantress is not a deck that you pick-up and do well with it right off the bat (especially in this meta.) In order to play Enchantress you have to:
1. Want to REALLY play Enchantress
2. Understand the Meta and what makes your opponents decks work
3. Practice
4. Tweak your list to the ever changing meta

In other words it has got to be a labor of love. If you are not up for that type of investment, I would suggest a different deck as there isn’t a lot of development going into Enchantress although it can be quite powerful in skillful Enchantress player’s hands.

[mikeshimoji]

Question 1: Do you need duals?
No. As a matter of fact many lists I run play 0 copies of any type of dual (shock or not)

Debated Statement: Is Enchantress viable?

Yes, but it’s not easy, and will require a lot of work to get good enough with the deck that it has to be a labor of love or the deck will not work for you. There are many things currently working against the deck. Here are the main ones:

BGx getting the following cards:

Abrupt Decay, Golgari Charm

Prior to these cards BGx matches were heavily favored because they could not interact with out “locks” now they have main deck hate.
Sigarda & Oring effects for Strix seems like a good plan b, but is relatively untested.

Storm:
Storm was always an issue, but is mitigated well with. Gaddock Teeg (Green Sun’s for Gaddock), Stony Silence, and to a lesser extent Leyline of Sanctity There may be additional insurance in Runed Halo
Sterling Grove IMO is just not good here.

Omnitel:
Beatable with Banishing Light, Oblivion Ring, Seal of Primordium or helm combo.

Gaddock also does a lot of work here.

Elves:
Elves when from poor to horrible with the printing of Reclamation Sage.
Gaddock is a decent way to Fight elves, but you need to close them quick. Some sweet tech for Elves may be Torpor Orb
All the rest of the match-ups in the decks to beat for the GW Helm list (no duals) Are / were 50/50 or favorable.

In summary Enchantress is not a deck that you pick-up and do well with it right off the bat (especially in this meta.) In order to play Enchantress you have to:
1.Want to REALLY play Enchantress
2.Understand the Meta and what makes your opponents decks work
3.Practice
4.Tweak your list to the ever changing meta

In other words it has got to be a labor of love. If you are not up for that type of investment, I would suggest a different deck as there isn’t a lot of development going into Enchantress although it can be quite powerful in skillful Enchantress player’s hands.

Since it is my second legacy deck, I will invest in it to make it viable. I don't have to worry about it being viable, I need to worry about getting the pieces.

If this bullets is true, the list that won the daily with living wish is where we want to try and go then. It seems like a new direction I want to try.

[Watersaw]

Since it is my second legacy deck, I will invest in it to make it viable. I don't have to worry about it being viable, I need to worry about getting the pieces.

If this bullets is true, the list that won the daily with living wish is where we want to try and go then. It seems like a new direction I want to try.

Which list was that? Online meta is a bit different than paper but it's worth looking at whatever works.

So Myth Realized is proving to be super awkward and I'm not sure I'm happy with it. It kinda protects you engine (except not really because they don't care about it until they're already dead) and I really miss casting Suppression Field. Maybe I'm looking at it the wrong way but yeah, I'm not a fan of it in this version of the deck. On the plus side, I fell in love with Gitaxian Probe again.

[Concordant]

Which list was that? Online meta is a bit different than paper but it's worth looking at whatever works.


It was a rather strange list playing 4 Living Wish, 1 Green Sun's Zenith, 1 Rest in Peace and 1 Helm of Obedience. Though impressive that somebody actually won with enchantress, I don't think the list looks particularly good.

[The_Dingo]

http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=9358&d=253632&f=LE

For those interested. Definitely an oddball list.

[mikeshimoji]

Oddball, isn't it exactly a twist this deck needs? I was talking to my friend who is an enchantress nut (remember that I am only a noob at this deck) and he said this deck needs a renovation, especially to combat delver tempo. For example, does elephant grass do the trick still, or do we need something of a bigger lock. I see some lists even running stp.

I dunno, I've been playing legacy for years, but I feel this deck is seriously a diamond in the rough. Just like how elves was pushed up to tier 1 recently with behemoth, shaman and new legend rule. I mean, we have the same land (cradle = sanctum) as them.

My friend and I are going to test some weird things (like choke main, why not? BG control lists are now running them, we can run them better) and let you guys know.

[Concordant]

Delver tempo (RUG, UWr) is the least of our worries. The main problems imo are BUG (because of the combination of FoW, Abrupt Decay, Thought Seize, Liliana and DRS), elves (I dont think I have ever won a match against elves) and reanimator (i'm not running RiP). ANT and Show and Tell are also bad matchups but at least there is relevant hate agaist those.

Elephant Grass is one of the best cards in the deck, especially against delver decks.

I think the deck is very underpowered at the moment. Imo it would need at least one of the following (or something similar) to be viable:
Academy Ruins for enchantments (this would be super broken so probably not going to happen)
Thalia which taxes non-creature, non-enchantment spells
Ethersworn Canonist which stops multiple non-enchantment spells
Functional reprint of Enchantress Presence (would let us cut argothian and play cards like humility and drop of honey/porphyry nodes main)
Unbanning of Earthcraft (unsure if this would be enough)

[Watersaw]

http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=9358&d=253632&f=LE

For those interested. Definitely an oddball list.

Dat wishboard tho. Deck looks super powerful but somehow even slower than a 4 GSZ build. What I really want to know is how Heliod, God of the Sun performed.


Oddball, isn't it exactly a twist this deck needs? I was talking to my friend who is an enchantress nut (remember that I am only a noob at this deck) and he said this deck needs a renovation, especially to combat delver tempo. For example, does elephant grass do the trick still, or do we need something of a bigger lock. I see some lists even running stp.

I dunno, I've been playing legacy for years, but I feel this deck is seriously a diamond in the rough. Just like how elves was pushed up to tier 1 recently with behemoth, shaman and new legend rule. I mean, we have the same land (cradle = sanctum) as them.

My friend and I are going to test some weird things (like choke main, why not? BG control lists are now running them, we can run them better) and let you guys know.

The deck functions on a lot of moving parts and is very susceptible to disruption (which Living Wish solves very well) and getting killed before we can properly defend ourselves (which it really doesn't). The main tension in the deck is, are you a reliable turn 5/6 combo deck or a super grindy prison? I honestly don't think we've decided yet.


Delver tempo (RUG, UWr) is the least of our worries. The main problems imo are BUG (because of the combination of FoW, Abrupt Decay, Thought Seize, Liliana and DRS), elves (I dont think I have ever won a match against elves) and reanimator (i'm not running RiP). ANT and Show and Tell are also bad matchups but at least there is relevant hate agaist those.

Infect and Omni-tell are pretty miserable as well. 12post is a race.

[mikeshimoji]

So, the new approach would be the super Grundy right? I mean, the deck produces so much mana, it produces card advantage AND lock the board, we should be able to use anything as a finisher and it doesn't HAVE to be a combo deck, no? I'm super interested in the grindy approach as it seems like it can handle it. I mean, Sigarda is just the beats and this deck can churn it out fast. How about the big enchantment creatures? Sounds good to me.

[The_Dingo]

Oddball, isn't it exactly a twist this deck needs? I was talking to my friend who is an enchantress nut (remember that I am only a noob at this deck) and he said this deck needs a renovation, especially to combat delver tempo. For example, does elephant grass do the trick still, or do we need something of a bigger lock. I see some lists even running stp.

The tempo decks are not problematic with the exception of BUG delver.


My friend and I are going to test some weird things (like choke main, why not? BG control lists are now running them, we can run them better) and let you guys know.

Would be interested in this for sure. I would love some tech that helps gain ground on the combo MUs without losing any ground to the stuff we are good against.

Has anyone tried a boarding plan where we board into something like 4 leyline of the void, Extra helms, E tutors and try and race the combo decks? If so I would love to hear any success stories.

[Freggle]

Not sure if I should keep this one under wraps while I smooth out the list, but I just thought I'd share early this time. None the less it's a fun one. I thought up a new UG list and it seems quite powerful even under board wipes and removal (this list uses creatures)

I went 3-1 in tournament practice, the only match I lost was to time while combing for the win. (Modo clicks , there is a ton with this one)

The concept is simple win with Helix Pinnacle.

The main combo is to enchant a Arbor Elf with Pemmin's Aura. I know, I know it sounds like a horrible plan. In preliminary testing however it is not. We just need Arbor Elf not to be summoning sick and a combination of UG mana out of a forest and we have infinate mana to draw into Pinnacle and load it up to 100 counters, and survive a turn.

Here is the list I tested on MTGO tonight with very good success (warning don't play on modo with this unless you want to die of clicking):

Main:
4 Argothian Enchantress
4 Enchantress's Presence
4 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Eidolon of Blossoms

3 Pemmin's Aura
4 Arbor Elf
2 Exploration(not needed ...likely something better for this slot)

2 Helix Pinnacle
3 Mirri's Guile
4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Wild Growth
4 Argothian Enchantress
2 Seal of Primordium
2 City of Solitude

9 Forest
4 Tropical Island
3 Verdant Catacomb
4 Windswept Heath
1 Dryad Arbor



Sideboard (Never Boarded)

1 Reclamation Sage
3 In the Eye of Chaos
3 Energy Field
3 Elephant Grass
1 Sigarda

Infinate Mana Combos

Pemmin's + Dryad Arbor + Utopia Sprawl U on Arbor = Infinite Green

Pemmin's + Arbor Elf + Utopia Sprawl U on Forest = Infinate Green

Pemmin's + Arbor + Sprawl or Growth on Tropical = Infinate Green

Green Sun's = Swiss army Knife

Green suns can find Abor Elf, Dryad Arbor to combo with, also when comboing it can find Eidolon or more Enchantress's to all-but ensure you don't fizzle.


Once you have Infinate Green you typically can draw through your deck which means more land enchants to find Pinnacle and win. This deck kills roughly turn 5

Board wipes aren't bad since the decks curve is so low you can build up quick from a relatively low base. Land Destruction isn't bad and is mitigated from the Arbor Elfs and mana Enchants. I had one game where I ate an all is dust and bit a Sundering Titan (nabbing 2 lands) and still comboed FTW.

Also Note worthy: City of Solitude stops removal as well so you're free to enchant draw win. unabated.


...right now it's a simple rough list, but again quite powerful.

Could also Play Words of Wind ( and or possibly Stasis)as a hedge against Needle & random stuff, but it raises the curve and at this point I don't feel it's needed. Seal of Primordium Pops off a good bit of hate.

[grandemagopiccolo]

Hi guys... I nave a question... What do you think about bone copy of genesis wave in this deck?

[Tropotos]

Is anyone going to Syracuse this weekend I'm trying some new tricks :D (It's been a while since i've been on this thread) I'll post results.

[btm10]

Hi guys... I nave a question... What do you think about bone copy of genesis wave in this deck?

Genesis Hydra is strictly better, but isn't good enough.

[Weapon X]

Why not just play the old words of wind build Freggle? Also 8 argothian's?

[Loxmatii]

Freggle, 8 aragothian in your list

[jaydprickett]

Freggle how is Pemmin's + Elf better than RiP/Helm. Elf is ok by itself but game 1 will soak all their removal. Rest in Peace is actually a really good card main deck. Doesn't kill any faster really. Not sure why you think that combo is better than RiP/Helm.

[Watersaw]

So Myth Realized is proving to be super awkward and I'm not sure I'm happy with it. It kinda protects you engine (except not really because they don't care about it until they're already dead) and I really miss casting Suppression Field. Maybe I'm looking at it the wrong way but yeah, I'm not a fan of it in this version of the deck. On the plus side, I fell in love with Gitaxian Probe again.

UPDATE: I'm retracting that statement, Myth Realized is awesome. I finally sucked it up and put Sterling Grove back in the deck and it made all the difference. It hasn't actually won me any games yet, but swinging for 6 as early as turn 4 has been good enough to force blocks or removal that could be spent elsewhere. Side note: the 3-mana pump ability has been more relevant than I would have ever thought.

Considering the Living Wish build a few posts up, the more I look at it the more I like it. I'm not sure I'm enough of a baller to run 4 wishes, but I am a huge fan of 1-and-1 on Helm of Obedience and Rest in Peace, especially after testing it out. It doesn't take up much space, and if you ever do draw the Helm early you get to crack Grove and play "Do you have it?" There's about a million things going on here, but you should be able to stay at least one step ahead. This is the most fun I've had playing this deck in a long time.

4 Argothian Enchantress
4 Enchantress's Presence
4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Eidolon of Blossoms

1 Sigil of the Empty Throne That's right, 15 enchantress effects. I'm not sold 100% on Sigil, but it's huge with Grove
3 Myth Realized Okay, 18 if you count these.
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Helm of Obedience
1 Replenish there was one game where I couldn't cast this without killing myself with Constellation triggers. Something to be aware of if you double up on Eidolon and don't run Words of W_____

4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Wild Growth

3 Elephant Grass
2 Solitary Confinement
3 Sterling Grove
1 Rest in Peace
1 Blood Moon
1 Oblivion Ring this isn't Banishing Light so I can break Blood Moon and cast Emrakul. This has come up.

2 Plains
6 Forest
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Taiga
1 Savannah I feel that Sterling Grove and Myth Realized make early access to white that much more crucial
4 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Foothills
3 Serra's Sanctum
1 Karakas

Sideboard is, as always, a work in progress.
2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben decent-ish clock now that Myth Realized exists alongside Eidolon of Blossoms. Need to test more
2 Stony Silence on the fence
2 Suppression Field on the fence
3 Swords to Plowshares
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Replenish this is probably not needed
1 Rest in Peace
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Choke so this and Sage were in competition with Blood Moon for slot 60. I went with Moon because even though it can screw us up it packs the biggest punch

[Blastoderm]

I love the deck to death, and it's a blast to play, but from a competitive standpoint it's extremely poorly positioned in the metagame and I don't see Enchantress moving into a better spot anytime soon. Solitary Confinement-based Enchantress' biggest draw was always how effective it was against any deck that relied upon the combat step to win the game. But it can't boast such nowadays.

Dedicated, linear aggro decks (e.g. Madness, Goblins, Zoo) are practically nonexistent outside of some folks plugging away with them because they generally enjoy playing with them. It's no longer a large part of the greater metagame, and as such, Enchantress' overall matchups are a bit diminished; less stuff the deck is good against in the meta is bad for the deck's competitive ability.

And the remaining decks that win via combat have gained a whole bunch of game against Enchantress (or already had some). There aren't really any easy matchups anymore. Going up against Blue Tempo, assorted B/G/x archetypes, Death&Taxes, and even Infect isn't going to be easy; all these decks can effectively disrupt your gameplay and/or put you on a clock. Solitary isn't even robust against any deck with Deathrite Shaman unless you're running the Helm of Obedience / Rest in Peace package (which I really should give another try at this point)

And the combo matchup, aside from Dredge, is as miserable as ever. There's hardly any way within the deck's confines to interact with stack-based combo, and most of those cards are too slow, too ineffectual, or too easily responded to. Even Elves, in my experience, isn't favorable; it's too easy for them to tutor up an answer to any prison-effect you have on board. Maybe the G/W/b version of 'Tress can fight against the pointy-eared menace...I don't have much experience on that end.

The meta really doesn't favor the deck all that much. You can still grind out wins, and maybe tailor a sideboard full of silver bullets to a small meta, but placing in any large event or winning with consistency is gonna be difficult.

Enchantress is meant to beat Delver, don't know what you're doing wrong...There's a guy at my store who always 3-1 or 4-0 because he crushes all the delver/midrange. Combo is nonexistent in our meta.

People tend to play lots of "do nothing", "cute", "oh look I'm creative" cards in their deck. Stop.

[Freggle]

Why not just play the old words of wind build Freggle? Also 8 argothian's?

Oops, I'm not sure what that extra 4 slots are when I get home I'll take a look.

Frankly, on the Words of wind question. I don't know. I think I'm a deck builder / tinkerer first and a competitive player second. I just build this out of curiosity, and got a little too excited and posted it here. This pros this has is similar to GW Helm. Can win without an enchantress effect on the board, and this deck goes off from a stupid low base. It is fairly weak to tons of removal though.


Enchantress is meant to beat Delver, don't know what you're doing wrong...There's a guy at my store who always 3-1 or 4-0 because he crushes all the delver/midrange. Combo is nonexistent in our meta.

People tend to play lots of "do nothing", "cute", "oh look I'm creative" cards in their deck. Stop.

Agree. However, never stop testing and pushing the boundaries of this deck. ...just don't get too down on it when a pile that has gotten so divergent from the base doesn't do well, and think it's Enchantress. At that time snap it back to a regular list and ask what do I need.

[Hoojo]

UPDATE: I'm retracting that statement, Myth Realized is awesome. I finally sucked it up and put Sterling Grove back in the deck and it made all the difference. It hasn't actually won me any games yet, but swinging for 6 as early as turn 4 has been good enough to force blocks or removal that could be spent elsewhere. Side note: the 3-mana pump ability has been more relevant than I would have ever thought.

Considering the Living Wish build a few posts up, the more I look at it the more I like it. I'm not sure I'm enough of a baller to run 4 wishes, but I am a huge fan of 1-and-1 on Helm of Obedience and Rest in Peace, especially after testing it out. It doesn't take up much space, and if you ever do draw the Helm early you get to crack Grove and play "Do you have it?" There's about a million things going on here, but you should be able to stay at least one step ahead. This is the most fun I've had playing this deck in a long time.

4 Argothian Enchantress
4 Enchantress's Presence
4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Eidolon of Blossoms

1 Sigil of the Empty Throne That's right, 15 enchantress effects. I'm not sold 100% on Sigil, but it's huge with Grove
3 Myth Realized Okay, 18 if you count these.
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Helm of Obedience
1 Replenish there was one game where I couldn't cast this without killing myself with Constellation triggers. Something to be aware of if you double up on Eidolon and don't run Words of W_____

4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Wild Growth

3 Elephant Grass
2 Solitary Confinement
3 Sterling Grove
1 Rest in Peace
1 Blood Moon
1 Oblivion Ring this isn't Banishing Light so I can break Blood Moon and cast Emrakul. This has come up.

2 Plains
6 Forest
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Taiga
1 Savannah I feel that Sterling Grove and Myth Realized make early access to white that much more crucial
4 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Foothills
3 Serra's Sanctum
1 Karakas

Sideboard is, as always, a work in progress.
2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben decent-ish clock now that Myth Realized exists alongside Eidolon of Blossoms. Need to test more
2 Stony Silence on the fence
2 Suppression Field on the fence
3 Swords to Plowshares
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Replenish this is probably not needed
1 Rest in Peace
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Choke so this and Sage were in competition with Blood Moon for slot 60. I went with Moon because even though it can screw us up it packs the biggest punch

I like the direction this list is going, though I still think Suppression Field is a beating. I probably would cut the 3rd wincon (Sigil) or move it into the board over the second Replinish.

[The_Dingo]

UPDATE: I'm retracting that statement, Myth Realized is awesome. I finally sucked it up and put Sterling Grove back in the deck and it made all the difference. It hasn't actually won me any games yet, but swinging for 6 as early as turn 4 has been good enough to force blocks or removal that could be spent elsewhere. Side note: the 3-mana pump ability has been more relevant than I would have ever thought.

Considering the Living Wish build a few posts up, the more I look at it the more I like it. I'm not sure I'm enough of a baller to run 4 wishes, but I am a huge fan of 1-and-1 on Helm of Obedience and Rest in Peace, especially after testing it out. It doesn't take up much space, and if you ever do draw the Helm early you get to crack Grove and play "Do you have it?" There's about a million things going on here, but you should be able to stay at least one step ahead. This is the most fun I've had playing this deck in a long time.

4 Argothian Enchantress
4 Enchantress's Presence
4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Eidolon of Blossoms

1 Sigil of the Empty Throne That's right, 15 enchantress effects. I'm not sold 100% on Sigil, but it's huge with Grove
3 Myth Realized Okay, 18 if you count these.
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Helm of Obedience
1 Replenish there was one game where I couldn't cast this without killing myself with Constellation triggers. Something to be aware of if you double up on Eidolon and don't run Words of W_____

4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Wild Growth

3 Elephant Grass
2 Solitary Confinement
3 Sterling Grove
1 Rest in Peace
1 Blood Moon
1 Oblivion Ring this isn't Banishing Light so I can break Blood Moon and cast Emrakul. This has come up.

2 Plains
6 Forest
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Taiga
1 Savannah I feel that Sterling Grove and Myth Realized make early access to white that much more crucial
4 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Foothills
3 Serra's Sanctum
1 Karakas

Sideboard is, as always, a work in progress.
2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben decent-ish clock now that Myth Realized exists alongside Eidolon of Blossoms. Need to test more
2 Stony Silence on the fence
2 Suppression Field on the fence
3 Swords to Plowshares
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Replenish this is probably not needed
1 Rest in Peace
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Choke so this and Sage were in competition with Blood Moon for slot 60. I went with Moon because even though it can screw us up it packs the biggest punch

I recently started playing a main deck configuration similar to yours of 1 replenish 1 helm 1 RiP 3 sterling grove. So far the mild tension between RiP and replenish hasn't been a problem. Instead of red I'm splashing black for doomwake giant, which has been great as a win con and super useful against decks like DnT and maverick when you need to be able to deal with multiple hate bears. He's basically a walking one sided wrath of god every turn.

[mikeshimoji]

I really do think this new approach of being a grindy, midrange deck is a viable option for the future of this deck. I mean, lists that have been doing well do pack things like doom wake Giant to beat face. I see lists with sigarda and here in Japan, one with monastary mentor x3 go 4-0 at an event. So what this will "turn their removal on." We have a draw engine that out draws the removal and a combo that finishes. I think "giving them a target" is not a good enough reason not to try the plethora of enchantment creatures available to us. If we stick to, like an old man who is tied to his old ways, the deck being the combo deck as it was, we will never evolve. Lists need to adapt and using the core draw engine to do unfair AND fair things makes sense to me. I'm going to try it out.

[Claymore1]

Are FNM legacy games okay to share around here? If so, then I'll start posting more often. Here's a few matches a played yesterday:

Played another game of Legacy at Comic Kings (VA), I played a few games of standard using a friend's deck. I don't really play Standard at all, but I just want to play magic. I went 3-1, then I dropped when the matches for the Legacy started.

Game 1: vs Reanimator

R1: He went first, playing ritual into imp, followed by discarding a fatty into the grave followed by an exhume. I don't recall what he dropped by i was able to go turn 2 argothian, turn 3 solitary and he was soon locked out.

R2: I boarded in all my Ground Seal, which slowed him down greatly as he kept a hand with targeted reanimation, and not exhume. He decided to go for Jin Gitaxias to try to stop my Solitary lock, but I oblivion ring the creature on my turn.

Later in that night, I, as well as another friendly guy in the store, was helping the reanimator guy with possible changes to his deck. He seems very passionate about reanimator, its always nice to see people playing with the decks they really like. Smile

(Also this lucky fellow won the free Force of will give away, which made a lot of people playing in the FNM lose interest when the free force giveaway is gone lol.)

2-0
Current standing: 1-0

Game 2: vs Death and Taxes

My opponent is rather discouraged that he's playing against enchantress, as he sill recalls our previous matches, I told him to not worry maybe things will work out differently. I honestly don't really this match as I didn't kept any notes on me. I do recall helping him build a deck that matches what he he wants to build based on his descriptions, so I introduced him to Soul Sisters.

but I won both games.
2-0
Current Standing 2-0

Game 3: vs UR Delver

I like this guy, he's actually pretty friendly. He was inquiring about my deck box that hes never seen as well as my custom playmat.

R1: He won the die roll, and he's knowledgable enough to know what deck I was playing, when I went to play utopia sprawl into my turn 1 forest he pondered immediately dazed my utopia sprawl. I honestly am not sure if this wise of him, I understand hes trying to slow me down, but regardless an enchantress is coming out on turn 2. He dropped delver and a swiftspear on his turn and passes, I played an argothian but he forced it. I passed the turn and he dropped another swiftspear on his turn and a attacked for a bunch with a few plays of gitaxian probes. I managed to play green Sun Zenith, bringing in Argothian, he attacked with again and passes. I'm facing lethal damage for next turn so I have to drop Solitary now with just 3 cards in hand, one of which is presence a wild growth and a land. I Managed to stabilize there and he scooped when I eventually dropped Sigil.

R2: I brought in a playset of chalice of the void, I remember my opening hand actually. It was a forest, chalice of the void, 2 utopia sprawls, wild growth, and an argothian, from my mull to 6. I decided to keep it, and the chalice resolved set at 1. It hurt my a bit yes, but I at least still get to draw cards while shutting down most of his cards. He eventually scooped, when he knew there was no out of the lock.

2-0
Current Standing 3-0

My delver opponent ended up playing against each other again in the last round, but he said he doesn't have really any answers for my game plan and just wants to play something else. We just had a friendly game with different decks and we helped the reanimator guy with his build.


G/W Enchantress

4 Windswept Heath (Onslaught)
3 Verdant Catacombs (Zendikar)
1 Savannah (Beta)
10 Forest (Guru)
1 Plains (Guru)
2 Serra's Sanctum (Urza's Saga)

3 Oblivion Ring (Duel Decks: Knights vs. Dragons)

4 Utopia Sprawl (Dissension)
4 Wild Growth (Alpha)

4 Sterling Grove (Invasion)
4 Enchantress (Onslaught)
4 Argothian Enchantress (Urza's Saga)

3 Green Sun's Zenith (Mirroded Besieged)
2 Replenish (Urza's Destiny)

4 Solitary Confinement (Judgement)
4 Elephant Grass (Visions)

2 Sigil of the Empty Throne (Conflux)
1 Emraku, the Aeons Torn (Rise of the Eldrazi)

//Sideboard

4 Leyline of Sanctity (Magic 2011)
1 Stony Silence (Innistrad)
1 Humility (Tempest)
1 Choke (Tempest)
4 Ground Seal (Odyssey)
4 Chalice of the Void (Mirrodin)

[ESG]

R1: He won the die roll, and he's knowledgable enough to know what deck I was playing, when I went to play utopia sprawl into my turn 1 forest he pondered immediately dazed my utopia sprawl.

Savage. I do hope you mean that he Brainstormed, not Pondered, there.

Also, how can you play the same opponent two rounds in a row at an FNM? Doesn't DCI Reporter prevent that type of pairing from happening?

[Claymore1]

Savage. I do hope you mean that he Brainstormed, not Pondered, there.

Also, how can you play the same opponent two rounds in a row at an FNM? Doesn't DCI Reporter prevent that type of pairing from happening?

I meant that, and it was just a very small turn out. I just decided to share my experience. Legacy is almost non existent in virginia but its slowly growing.

[Claymore1]

Just played another weekly legacy matches for FNM at a local store, the place had a really good turnout again for Standard, but very little for Legacy, oh well, Legacy here is growing slowly.

Match 1: vs Gabrielle (piloting Stoneforge Combo)

(1) First round is a pretty normal start, forest into Sprawl, but instead of dropping enchantress turn two, I decided to Oblivion Ring her Metalworker to prevent her deck from going too crazy, it slowed her down a ton enough for me to assemble my pieces and eventually I went have a sanctum in play, tapping it for a ton of mana, and dropping another one saccing the old one and making more mana to power up an Emrakul, it was pretty much game after that.

(2) Second round Was a bit harsh for me, she managed to slow me down with Trinisphere, followed by a Lodestone Golem, and another Lodestone Golem on the next round, and to really put a nail in the coffin she dropped Sundering Titan later on. I lost that round.

(3) Third round, I am on the play, I kept a hand with no acceleration, just 2 fetches, but I have Argothian Enchantress in play and Stony Silence in my opening, with other cards that I don't remember what. I managed to lock her out of the game wih stony silence, and using my Sterling Groves to keep grabbing Oblivion ring to keep her locked out while I look for Emrakul. Sadly there was 3 cards left in the library when I finally found him, but as long as I found him lol. She was only at 14 health left from all the damage she took from her Ancient Tombs, so she didn't survive an attack.

I wished her luck on her next game, after reporting my score, I soke to one of the guys in the shop, about random stuff.

2-1
Current Standing : 1-0

Match 2: vs Joshua (piloting UR painter)

(1) First round, I mulligan to 6. He dropped a Goblin Welder which I exiled with a Oblivion Ring. I had double Enchantress engine going on so I had no problem keeping confinement alive, I later won by attacking with some angel tokens generated by Sigil.

(2) Second round was rather weird for me, but I kept a hand that I wasn't sure whether I should keep, but I decided to go alone with it. I kept an opening with a Leyline of Sanctity 1 land, a replenish, and four enchant lands, which actually ended up well for me as I came across a green sun's zenith which resolved, allowing me to slowly get going. He got Painter's Servant in play and when I tried tried to Oblivion Ring it, he countered it with a Pyroblast, then a few turns later he destroyed my Leyline of Sanctity, and grinded me out, I flipped my entire deck but I told him that there's an Emrakul in the deck and when I showed it to him he started laughing. I grabbed Stony Silence at end of his turn with Sterling Grove and prevented him from doing anything with what hes got. I eventually got the Confinement lock and eventually dropped Emrakul for the win.

One of the spectators commented about how all my basic lands are guru lands and it became a conversation for a while since a lot of people actually didn't know what they are.

2-0
Current Standing 2-0

Match 3: vs Adam (Piloting Death and Taxes)

(1) First round, nothing much to say here, he dropped vial while I just went forest/Sprawl, and enchatress the next turn. Eventually he couldn't do anything once I have the engine going. He scooped and shook my hand.

(2) Second round, he played some Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, but I have enough mana sources for it not to bother me much, and not enough to stop me from assembling the lock. He scooped and started spectating some of the Standard games.

2-0
Current Standing 3-0

We had to stop the tournament short as the store will be closing soon, so I just spectated two guys playing Dredge vs Dredge, and before the store closes, I spend quite a bit and purchased the first print of Spider Gwen. I wished everyone well and shook hands and told them hopefully we can all play again next week.

My deck list I'm using:

G/W Enchantress

4 Windswept Heath (Onslaught)
3 Verdant Catacombs (Zendikar)
1 Savannah (Beta)
10 Forest (Guru)
1 Plains (Guru)
2 Serra's Sanctum (Urza's Saga)

3 Oblivion Ring (Duel Decks: Knights vs. Dragons)

4 Utopia Sprawl (Dissension)
4 Wild Growth (Alpha)

4 Sterling Grove (Invasion)
4 Enchantress (Onslaught)
4 Argothian Enchantress (Urza's Saga)

3 Green Sun's Zenith (Mirroded Besieged)
2 Replenish (Urza's Destiny)

4 Solitary Confinement (Judgement)
4 Elephant Grass (Visions)

2 Sigil of the Empty Throne (Conflux)
1 Emraku, the Aeons Torn (Rise of the Eldrazi)

//Sideboard

4 Leyline of Sanctity (Magic 2011)
1 Stony Silence (Innistrad)
1 Humility (Tempest)
1 Choke (Tempest)
4 Ground Seal (Odyssey)
4 Chalice of the Void (Mirrodin)

I'm considering playing around with random win-con for next week just to have fun, who knows, perhaps I may go with:
Forbidden Orchard, Defense of the Heart, and Emrakul/Progenitus
and just have fun with a different win-con.

[U_mage]

So, finally got enchantress together on mtgo (Mostly. still missing leylines, but will hopefully be picking them up next month) and am toying with the idea of streaming some dailies with it. Thought I'd post here and gauge interest

[Uroborian]

If you stream legacy you get interest; specially with Enchantress its a beloved deck and few get to see it piloted.

[btm10]

So, finally got enchantress together on mtgo (Mostly. still missing leylines, but will hopefully be picking them up next month) and am toying with the idea of streaming some dailies with it. Thought I'd post here and gauge interest

I'd watch.

[siqatzi]

So, finally got enchantress together on mtgo (Mostly. still missing leylines, but will hopefully be picking them up next month) and am toying with the idea of streaming some dailies with it. Thought I'd post here and gauge interest

I'd watch!

[U_mage]

K, I'll try to get something together this week. If anyone had some Leylines I could borrow, that'd be very helpful :)

[Kulta]

What time will you be streaming under? And under which name?

[U_mage]

What time will you be streaming under? And under which name?

I'm going to shoot for the last legacy daily tomorrow (8 PST/10 CST). Stream will be at http://www.twitch.tv/U_Mage. I'll start the stream 10 minutes before the event. If it doesn't fire, I'll try again on Thursday

[jaydprickett]

I'm going to shoot for the last legacy daily tomorrow (8 PST/10 CST). Stream will be at http://www.twitch.tv/U_Mage. I'll start the stream 10 minutes before the event. If it doesn't fire, I'll try again on Thursday

Are you uploading to YouTube? I would definitely follow you for some Enchantress videos.

[U_mage]

Are you uploading to YouTube? I would definitely follow you for some Enchantress videos.

I certainly can, channel will be http://bit.ly/1P6UfqZ

[U_mage]

Apparently I'm bad at time zones. Stream will be live at 7:50 CST 5:50 PST

[U_mage]

welp, event didn't fire, one dude showed up. I'll be trying tomorrow at the same time

[Wordslinger]

played paper legacy for two years, just getting into legacy on mtgo. I heard the mtgo meta is infested with combo, is this true? is this deck still a good investment? I'm on a bit of a budget, and I don't want an insane win rate or anything just 3-1 every few dailys of so. any help? this is my current paper list:

4 windswept heath
1 misty rainforest
1 bayou
1 savannah
1 tropical island
6 forest
1 plains
3 serra's sanctum

1 city of solitude
1 sphere of safety
1 choke
2 sylvan library
4 enchanresses presence
4 rest in peace
4 elephant grass
4 wild growth
4 utopia sprawl
2 energy field
2 suppresion field
1 citadel siege // this prevents the opponent from riding a single flying threat to victory
2 solitary confinement
1 monastery siege
1 in the eye of chaos // nice digs, pay 8 more


4 argothian enchantress
2 helm of obedeince
1 doomwake giant // death and taxes can't beat this card

sb
3 replenish
1 choke
2 carpet of flowers
1 oblivion ring // this package is for decks that are midrange or slower
1 helm of obedience
2 brain maggot
1 curse of exhaustion
1 solitary confinement
1 nevermore //this package is for decks that are comboriffic in nature, matches are still horrible, just not zero percent
1 engineered plague
1 doomwake giant // this package is for elves and death and taxes

[redesign1991]

I don't have any experience playing on MTGO, so I can't tell which decks are more popular than other. However Enchantress is a very fun deck to play in my opinion. Since its not something is seeing play a lot, you'll also be able to surprise some opponents.

However, against combo decks you'll have a pretty tough time in my opinion. It really just depends on how fast Dredge & Reanimator can go off before you can land RIP. Elephant's Grass also does a lot in this match up. Against storm Leyline can be pretty darn good. The real problem is that you can't counter anything. If you're on a budget and combo is heavily played I might look the other way though.

[Wordslinger]

well budget is relative to format right? my legacy mtgo budget is $200 and i was looking at enchantress because the deck has play to it and is around that price. also, i wouldn't pretend to have as much experience with the deck as some
who post here, but leyline is completely worthless for the purpose of shutting down combo decks. COMPLETELY WORTHLESS. doesn't even slow them down. even if it did, we're 1.5 to 2 turns slower than the slowest combo deck in the
format. ANT will bounce PIF bounce, Omni will just go off as normal and cast emrakul or cuning wish for bounce, elves doesn't care, even high tide just goes off as normal and kills at leisure. I think that an answer to combo is neccessary if this deck is to have a future, because it kicks the ass of everything else as long as it isn't losing to it's own inconsistency, and even that problem is potentially surmountable.

tl dr : leyline doesn't matter, fair decks just lose, need answer to combo, should i buy in on mtgo?

[U_mage]

For those of you who missed it, I went 3-1 last night, beating MUD, sylvan plug, and Joe Lossett on Miracles (sadly, his stream got hit by copyright over the whole match), with my only loss being, unsurprisingly, storm. I was able to pick up some leylines this morning, so things are in full effect. I'm on twitter (http://twitter.com/U_mage) now (not sure how much I'll use it outside of announcing streams), and both streams are currently up on youtube (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOLMbGiKWd_wilQjoehQqIg)

@Wordslinger: Sure people have answers to it, but leyline is also very important in the BGx matchups, blanking discard and edicts. And even if it isn't a full auto-win, storm still needs to find their bounce, and we have a lot of other stuff to bring to the table (Eidolon of Rhetoric, Gaddock Teeg, solitaries) So far the only combo matchups I've had have been storm, an Omnitell, and an infect, but this was only out of maybe 15 matchups

[nedleeds]

How are they bouncing anything? You're playing 4 Sterling Groves. Leyline buys you a couple of turns vs. Storm to find a Grove or an Aegis. Most won't call the Elephant Grass bluff without Duressing first, maybe they gamble and Empty but it's a little risky. Are people playing Reverent Silence of something?

Vs. Omniderp it's not great, but there aren't many decks that will beat Omnichimps best draw. Banishing Light in hand means they need Wish / Dig for Wish in hand, but it's worth keeping in. Seal has always been the best option, then they need natural Emrakul in hand or you just destroy Omni in response. I would also bring in Aegis vs. Omni not just to cut off Intuition but just to present a clock. The way some of you are crying it sounds like you should go play storm or omni. Second, dismissing Leyline shows inexperience with Enchantress. Leyline is a near hard lock vs. Burn, insane vs. Jund, and I would bring it in vs. BUG on the draw.

[U_mage]

Are people playing Reverent Silence of something?
Usually it's just Belcher


Seal has always been the best option, then they need natural Emrakul in hand or you just destroy Omni in response.
Or they just stifle your activation

[nedleeds]

How do they have Trickbind in hand?

Show and Tell.

Chimp puts in Omniscience.
You put in Seal.

Now you stare at them. If they only have 1 Wish or 1 Dig they have to wait (or they will punt).

You wait until they cast something, if they don't have Wish in hand and have only Dig you respond to Dig with Seal. If they have Dig, Wish, Show, Omni then congrats. I mean nobody is beating that anyway. Go complain in the BNR thread about how Brainstorm helped craft the ultimate two card combo hand.

Having Aegis/Grove in play is helpful but it just cuts off Release and Intution. Having Curse of Exhaustion in hand is OK but that card is really slow and not nearly as versatile as white Leyline.

[Watersaw]

How are they bouncing anything? You're playing 4 Sterling Groves. Leyline buys you a couple of turns vs. Storm to find a Grove or an Aegis. Most won't call the Elephant Grass bluff without Duressing first, maybe they gamble and Empty but it's a little risky. Are people playing Reverent Silence of something?

Vs. Omniderp it's not great, but there aren't many decks that will beat Omnichimps best draw. Banishing Light in hand means they need Wish / Dig for Wish in hand, but it's worth keeping in. Seal has always been the best option, then they need natural Emrakul in hand or you just destroy Omni in response. I would also bring in Aegis vs. Omni not just to cut off Intuition but just to present a clock. The way some of you are crying it sounds like you should go play storm or omni. Second, dismissing Leyline shows inexperience with Enchantress. Leyline is a near hard lock vs. Burn, insane vs. Jund, and I would bring it in vs. BUG on the draw.

I feel like Burn and Jund are fairly solid matches for us already (not that Leylines don't help). Against Storm though it doesn't actually do a damn thing until you get that Grove in play , although it might just win the game unless they go Void Snare Past in Flames Void Snare wombo combo. The question then becomes whether or not they can dig enough to find that before we stick Rest in Peace or a 15/15, especially since we're playing protection on turn 2 instead of establishing our engine. That being said, Sanctity, Grove, RIP and GSZ in the opening 7 seems pretty unbeatable.

Hell if I know how we beat Omni. Does Choke actually do anything? Curse of Exhaustion seems like cool tech.

[Freggle]

Sorry I missed the stream.

The best tech vs. Omnitell is Orings, Gaddock Teeg, and Helm in GW Helm. Sigarda is okay, as it makes Emrakul not an auto win. Not sure what your 75 looks like.

Helm is in there for 2 reasons:

If RIP is on the battlefield: You can combo in response to their move post S&T
You can mill them pretty effectively or land an Emrakul without RIP


...I've won both ways multiple times.

With Teeg out they can not Omni or Dig, so they'll have to have Emrakul in hand to win.

I tested Curse pretty thoroughly for about a month and it's just not good enough. Eidolon of Rhetoric is the best of that angle so far, and really effective against Omnitell with a ton of o-ring effects.

If you want to specifically target Omnitell and you want to gamble on a 3rd color In the Eye of Chaos seems potentially good, and affects Rituals in ANT or TES, and pumps in Infect. ...it may be worth it. They are also very reasonable online.

[btm10]

Sorry I missed the stream.

The best tech vs. Omnitell is Orings, Gaddock Teeg, and Helm in GW Helm. Sigarda is okay, as it makes Emrakul not an auto win. Not sure what your 75 looks like.

Helm is in there for 2 reasons:



If RIP is on the battlefield: You can combo in response to their move post S&T
You can mill them pretty effectively or land an Emrakul without RIP


...I've won both ways multiple times.

With Teeg out they can not Omni or Dig, so they'll have to have Emrakul in hand to win.

I tested Curse pretty thoroughly for about a month and it's just not good enough. Eidolon of Rhetoric is the best of that angle so far, and really effective against Omnitell with a ton of o-ring effects.

If you want to specifically target Omnitell and you want to gamble on a 3rd color In the Eye of Chaos seems potentially good, and affects Rituals in ANT or TES, and pumps in Infect. ...it may be worth it. They are also very reasonable online.

I much prefer Nevermore to O.Ring/Banishing Light against Omni, though nedleeds' point about Seal is probably better. Nevermore naming Cunning Wish is one of the best proactive ways to attack Omni because it cuts them off of their answers to your other hate making O.Ring/Banishing Light actual answers to Show and Tell rather than things that force them to go off wish Wish in hand.

EDIT: U_Mage, I'm watching your stream and I can't really make out what you boarded in against Miracles, but dropping Guile and Grove is definitely wrong unless you have SB Library (which makes sense since you also cut at least one Confinement).

[U_mage]

U_Mage, I'm watching your stream and I can't really make out what you boarded in against Miracles, but dropping Guile and Grove is definitely wrong unless you have SB Library (which makes sense since you also cut at least one Confinement).

+1 choke, +1 teeg, +1 seal, +1 o-ring, +1 replenish, -2 guile, -1 elephant grass, -1 grove
Accidentally submitted 61 because i had just remembered about mentors (which he brought in). taking out the one grove was probably a bad idea, but i didn't really want to cut anything else. Bringing in teeg may also have been sub-par

Any idea on how to boost quality on OBS? Hadn't actually watched it back before, just listened

[btm10]

+1 choke, +1 teeg, +1 seal, +1 o-ring, +1 replenish, -2 guile, -1 elephant grass, -1 grove
Accidentally submitted 61 because i had just remembered about mentors (which he brought in). taking out the one grove was probably a bad idea, but i didn't really want to cut anything else. Bringing in teeg may also have been sub-par

Any idea on how to boost quality on OBS? Hadn't actually watched it back before, just listened

I don't know much about the quality issue, and I'm sort of ambivalent about Teeg. They're probably boarding out most if not all of their Swords and Teeg stops Terminus, which is probably enough. If you already have an MD Seal I'm not sure you want the second one - their only target is Counterbalance and Suppression Field makes that pretty bad against you. I'd have probably just dropped all of the Grasses and ignored the Mentors. Field stops the Top-looping trick and you'll probably just run the Miracles player out of cards with any sort of reasonable draw, so it's unlikely that they can sandbag enough stuff to make Mentor scary while also stopping you from deploying your engine. I also think you want a second Eidolon. At several points you just wanted to draw more cards and had a GSZ and plenty of mana, which are exactly the situations where you want Eidolon.

[U_mage]

I don't know much about the quality issue, and I'm sort of ambivalent about Teeg. They're probably boarding out most if not all of their Swords and Teeg stops Terminus, which is probably enough. If you already have an MD Seal I'm not sure you want the second one - their only target is Counterbalance and Suppression Field makes that pretty bad against you. I'd have probably just dropped all of the Grasses and ignored the Mentors. Field stops the Top-looping trick and you'll probably just run the Miracles player out of cards with any sort of reasonable draw, so it's unlikely that they can sandbag enough stuff to make Mentor scary while also stopping you from deploying your engine. I also think you want a second Eidolon. At several points you just wanted to draw more cards and had a GSZ and plenty of mana, which are exactly the situations where you want Eidolon.

Only have the one seal SB, though I have been toying with the idea of changing some stuff in the board for abrupts and adding a bayou main. I've played against 3 chalice decks over 7 matches, and one of them actually knew the key cmcs (though i assume it's only a matter of time for the others to learn). I may try a second eidolon, but i've personally never felt the need for a second

EDIT: Current list is here (http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/30-09-14-gw-enchantress/)

[btm10]

Only have the one seal SB, though I have been toying with the idea of changing some stuff in the board for abrupts and adding a bayou main. I've played against 3 chalice decks over 7 matches, and one of them actually knew the key cmcs (though i assume it's only a matter of time for the others to learn). I may try a second eidolon, but i've personally never felt the need for a second

EDIT: Current list is here (http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/30-09-14-gw-enchantress/)

I don't know if I'd worry too much about Chalice. Four mana isn't bad for most Chalice decks, but six mana is a lot unless they open Cloudpost, Glimmerpost, Tomb. Black is my preferred splash for combo hate, but I wouldn't be worried enough about Chalice on 2 and 3 enough to add Decays. Eidolon gets around Chalice naturally (if they find 3, and want to spend 8 mana doing it, they're welcome to) and GSZ finds Argothian through Chalice on any value if you have enough mana. If you're really concerned about Chalice, Aura of Silence might be an answer.

[The_Dingo]

I'm watching your stream and I can't really make out what you boarded in against Miracles, but dropping Guile and Grove is definitely wrong unless you have SB Library (which makes sense since you also cut at least one Confinement).

Why would you advise against cutting sterling grove? IME the shroud isn't that important since they generally lack ways of interacting with our enchantments, and the tutor effect is pretty poor vs clique. Am I missing something?

[btm10]

Why would you advise against cutting sterling grove? IME the shroud isn't that important since they generally lack ways of interacting with our enchantments, and the tutor effect is pretty poor vs clique. Am I missing something?


They've only got 2-3 Cliques most of the time, and the rare occasions that we lose it tends to be to things like Wear, Snap, Wear on critical enchantments, so the Shroud does matter.

[mikeshimoji]

Just food for thought, but there is a enchantress deck that won a mid size event here in Japan that totally cut groves. It won total combo, two helms and emrakul, but transformed into a monastery mentor beat down post board. Looks reealy interesting.

[U_mage]

was thinking about mentor after joe started running them in miracle board. I agree that it seems pretty interesting, better than myth realized in theory

[mikeshimoji]

Would post decklist, but I can't access it right now. Check out mtgpulse, in the enchantress section I think. If not, it's on Happymtg in the enchantress section.

[U_mage]

Would post decklist, but I can't access it right now. Check out mtgpulse, in the enchantress section I think. If not, it's on Happymtg in the enchantress section.

I got you. I don't think it's worth bringing in against miracles, but any deck w/o a sweeper will have a hard time catching up
http://mtgpulse.com/event/19775#279115

[Claymore1]

I played a few legacy games again with enchantress, this time with a new playmat (knight exemplar), she looks like she can bring me good luck. It started pretty late, so we could only squeeze in 3 games.

Game 1: Vernin, Piloting UR Delver
R1 - Opponent on the play. This round he actually have a pretty explosive start, however, i managed to slow him down as well as lock him down by stalling enough with mutiple grasses, which bought me enough time to set up the lock on him. He got me to 9 health, and scooped when the lock was established.

1-0

R2 - Opponent on the play. I boarded in Chalice of the Voids, but I had to mulligan three times. My first Mulligan i had a hand with no lands, the 2nd mulligan was an argothian, a combination of 3 growths/Sprawls, however, my only land was a serra's sanctum. I kept a hand with the best I could have hope for for having 4 cards in hand: 2 lands, argothian, and grass. However, even though my enchantress resolved, my grass didn't, and eventually, he started putting out more creatures and I am unable to find anything to defend my self from them.

1-1

R3 - I am on the play I took a lot of early damage from several Monastery Swiftspears, and he dazed my green sun's zenith, however, I manage to hinder him with two elephant grass, which eventually led to finding Sigil, and I took him out with one big attack.

Match result: 2-1
Current standing: 1-0

Game 2: Gabrielle, piloting MUD

R1 - Opponent on the play, she went turn 1 Metal worker, and the next turn(s) was a sequence of Trinishphere, Lodestone Golem, Lodestone Golem. There was nothing I could do on this one.

0-1

R2 - I am on the play. Dropping Forest, Sprawl, go. She dropped a turn 1 Metal worker, however, I dropped another land and dropped Stony Silence. She just scooped and went to round 3.

1-1

R3 - She is on the play. She dropped a turn 2 trinisphere, but I already got one spawl out, and most of my cards in hand were actually 3 cost, so the trinisphere didn't do much for me, aside from my sterling groves, which I used to find Oblivion Rings. There was a lot of draw/go between us two, and not much action, eventually I managed to hard cast Emrakul. She conceded and looked at her top card, and she got upset because she was just one turn away, since the top card of her deck was All is Dust.

Match result: 2-1
Current standing - 2-0

Game 3: Jeremy, Piloting Merfolk

R1 - I am on the play. I went turn fetch > forest/Growth, and he went turn 1 Aether Vial. The next several turns I had, all my enchantresses got countered dazed and forced. however, he also ran out of cards in his hand, but having a good amount of lords on the field. I played Replenish which brought back, all my enchantress's presence, the next turn I drew into sterling grove, and passed the turn. I am now facing lethal damage so my next turn is now or never, I cracked the grove on his turn finding Solitary Confinement, his one and only spell was a daze which I could pay off, and he scooped soon after.

1-0

R2 - Opponent on the play. There isn't much to say about this one, he countered my accellerations, my only enchatress effect is two presence, which was countered via Swan Songs. I got finished off by turn 5. It was a fast game, and painful attack.

1-1

R3 - I am on the play. However I had to mulligan since I had a hand with 5 lands, an oblivion ring and a Wild growth. I shuffled for quite a bit. The game dragged on for a bit as grass slowed him down, I had 3 enchantress effects going on eventually, 2 presence and 1 argothian, but he has enough damage on the field to take me out all in go. I attempted to cast Humility but he countered it with swan song. Unable to break through out of my Confinement, I attacked him multiple times with 4/4 angels and 2/2 Bird. He scooped.

Match result : 2-1
Current standing: 3-0

The guy who was borrowing my Affinity deck said he loved the deck and he went 2-1 with it, and I gave away my promo to my merfolk opponent. It was an overall fun day. Many thanks to Paul, who gave me a ride so I can participate in the event.

G/W Enchantress

4 Windswept Heath (Onslaught)
3 Verdant Catacombs (Zendikar)
1 Savannah (Beta)
10 Forest (Guru)
1 Plains (Guru)
2 Serra's Sanctum (Urza's Saga)

3 Oblivion Ring (Duel Decks: Knights vs. Dragons)

4 Utopia Sprawl (Dissension)
4 Wild Growth (Alpha)

4 Sterling Grove (Invasion)
4 Enchantress (Onslaught)
4 Argothian Enchantress (Urza's Saga)

3 Green Sun's Zenith (Mirroded Besieged)
2 Replenish (Urza's Destiny)

4 Solitary Confinement (Judgement)
4 Elephant Grass (Visions)

2 Sigil of the Empty Throne (Conflux)
1 Emraku, the Aeons Torn (Rise of the Eldrazi)

//Sideboard

4 Leyline of Sanctity (Magic 2011)
1 Stony Silence (Innistrad)
1 Humility (Tempest)
1 Choke (Tempest)
4 Ground Seal (Odyssey)
4 Chalice of the Void (Mirrodin)

[Darklingske]

Last friday I played Yousuke's list (http://mtgpulse.com/event/19775#279115) and it was fun, but not good. I played against Grixis Delver, RUG Delver & Esper stoneblade . I found 2 Grasses too little & the lone Throne did nothing (didn't draw him in any game). So I'm going to change it a bit. 3 Journey's, 3 Grasses & no Throne will be my next testpackage. Maybe the Throne is good, but I'm willing to try without it.
Also, when are we supposed to bring in the mentors? I guess I'm boarding wrong because I haven't got a clue as to when to board them in.

[U_mage]

I'm not a big fan of sigil personally since it doesn't do anything by itself. Going off of what I know of how Lossett plays them, mentor comes in for any fair matchup. I've yet to get any online so I don't have any input yet :/

EDIT: lol, just noticed that list has 7 Islands in it, pretty sure those should be forests

[U_mage]

Me and another enchantress player (GoyoBeans) both went 3-1 in the daily last night. I managed to beat a storm deck that floundered g1 and had a super clutch confinement g2

[simdude]

So I wanted to try something new and I've started recording some games I've been playing on MTGO. I'm going to try and upload them to youtube to get some feedback. I have a quick deck tech and then my matches. I play against Shardless BUG, BUG Delver, Mardu Zombardment (it's a fun brew I seem to get paired against every weekend), and Grixis Delver.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dB5yEac-Nzs&list=PLOmMhwFaM9pknkBIqge_m6zhxTZ1230qq

I usually only get to play daily events on the weekend but I think that the free-play queues are relatively competitive so I'll upload some of those games if that's a thing people want. Sadly 2-mans are just such horrible EV I can't justify the cost.

I'll say that it's way harder than I expected to fill dead air and talk through everything but hopefully I can improve with that. Also while I think it's been really helpful to be able to look back on bad mistakes seeing yourself F6 through an endstep or play into a wasteland is a bit embarrassing.

[btm10]

Just a quick tip - Choke is way, way worse than Blood Moon against BUG decks. I have no idea why it was boarded out. Blood Moon makes it impossible for them to play Magic, Choke is a nuisance at worst. Also, Sprawling your nonbasics is a bad line against a deck that is probably running Wasteland.

EDIT: I'm doing this as I watch the video; your Zombardment opponent likely took grove because Grove gave you lots of ways to guarantee Elephant Grass the next turn - any one or two mana Enchantment would let you tutor with Grove and cast Grass (2 to cast Grove, 1 or 2 to cast the second enchantment, 1 to tutor, 1 to play Grass). Also Cage isn't great with GSZ and isn't an Enchantment. Rest in Peace and Ground Seal are both way better.

[U_mage]

Recently on stream I've been struggling against blue midrange/control decks that always seem to have the answer to whatever I'm doing (usually having the 1-2 counterspells they need to lineup against my beginning enchantresses), and this has led me to start considering adding a couple cards to help with this, namely city of solitude and/or carpet of flowers. Anyone have any input/suggestions on where to go with this? a link to my current list is below, and things I've considered cutting are the dryad arbor, guiles, groves (grudgingly), and the SB obedience. I'm thinking 1-2 carpets main along with a 1/1 split on cities, but I'm not sure if this is too much space to devote to this line of thinking

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/30-09-14-gw-enchantress/

[U_mage]

Ran +2 Carpet, +1 City MB, +1 city SB, -2 Guile, -1 Dryad Arbor, -1 Blind Obedience SB last night to another 3-1 finish, losing in the last round to grixis pyromancer, which feels like it should be a good matchup, but I've played the same guy ~3 times and have lost each match

On the changes: Carpet is amazing! we had a sweet sequence in r1 where our miracles opponent went tundra top on the play, we went forest carpet wild growth, opponent went volcanic counterbalance, we went sanctum make WW4G, presence choke. Didn't get to really see city do work outside of baiting a force, though watching the opponent's POV it was largely countered because it'd mess with top

On pyromancer: Really not sure what we can do in that matchup. It seems like our losses have RNG involved as our opponent seems to find all the counterspells, and YP + therapy is a brutal disruption engine, but i'm going to be testing it in paper a bit to see how it feels. Any advice/suggestions for that matchup would be appreciated

[cherson]

Ran +2 Carpet, +1 City MB, +1 city SB, -2 Guile, -1 Dryad Arbor, -1 Blind Obedience SB last night to another 3-1 finish, losing in the last round to grixis pyromancer, which feels like it should be a good matchup, but I've played the same guy ~3 times and have lost each match

On the changes: Carpet is amazing! we had a sweet sequence in r1 where our miracles opponent went tundra top on the play, we went forest carpet wild growth, opponent went volcanic counterbalance, we went sanctum make WW4G, presence choke. Didn't get to really see city do work outside of baiting a force, though watching the opponent's POV it was largely countered because it'd mess with top

On pyromancer: Really not sure what we can do in that matchup. It seems like our losses have RNG involved as our opponent seems to find all the counterspells, and YP + therapy is a brutal disruption engine, but i'm going to be testing it in paper a bit to see how it feels. Any advice/suggestions for that matchup would be appreciated

hi,

I follow the forum for a long time now without register to it, but now it's time.
personally I have problems with weenie aggro decks, especially gobblins. ita takes too long before I am in the 'comfort zone'.
I am now considering to put island sanctuary into the sb.

regarding pyro. what abt vexing shusher? I know it isn't an enchantment but cld protect us frm counter/top.
I saw your vids on youtube and thought that leyline might be enough vs discard/cabal.

[Freggle]

Recently on stream I've been struggling against blue midrange/control decks that always seem to have the answer to whatever I'm doing (usually having the 1-2 counterspells they need to lineup against my beginning enchantresses), and this has led me to start considering adding a couple cards to help with this, namely city of solitude and/or carpet of flowers. Anyone have any input/suggestions on where to go with this? a link to my current list is below, and things I've considered cutting are the dryad arbor, guiles, groves (grudgingly), and the SB obedience. I'm thinking 1-2 carpets main along with a 1/1 split on cities, but I'm not sure if this is too much space to devote to this line of thinking

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/30-09-14-gw-enchantress/

U_mage, I'm in the camp that this is more easily answered by looking at the problem differently. You're not trying to beat their counter magic you are trying to pace their tempo. ...and therefore you should be looking at ways to keep the tempo at parity. The main reason tempo matters in these match-up is because of their super efficient threats. Negating, of slowing their cheap threats will achieve the the same desired effect. As you you will end up doing nothing, and they will end up doing nothing. i.e. Elephant Grass you should have a 4th. ...and you should consider Swords to Plowshares although that isn't on paper terribly effective against young pyro (but has been functioning fine for me.)

Cards like City of Solitude are a tempo loss (you waste the turn you cast city) and it does not affect the board which is how you die.

Other good tempo cards are: Gitaxian probe to know which counter magic to play around, and make discard spells less relevant (if they choose to discard probe over the card drawn off of probe in later turns, and Mirri's Guile Mirri's will help dial up the right threat, and you should run 3. You will win so many more game with a Guile resolved against this type of deck that without. Guile in a way negates discard if you play it right, and can keep the enchantress effects coming.

Edit: Antother great tempo card that can help push through your gameplan and help dial up threats is Kruphix's Insight, a card that is relatively untested. "who needs enchantress's when your drawing cards regardless."

So, in the end think relativity to your opponent, and less how to push your game plan through.

[U_mage]

yea, had a viewer bring up shusher. my problem is that as a red deck pyro can afford to leave in bolts. may be worth trying sometime tho

[Freggle]

hi,

I follow the forum for a long time now without register to it, but now it's time.
personally I have problems with weenie aggro decks, especially gobblins. ita takes too long before I am in the 'comfort zone'.
I am now considering to put island sanctuary into the sb.

regarding pyro. what abt vexing shusher? I know it isn't an enchantment but cld protect us frm counter/top.
I saw your vids on youtube and thought that leyline might be enough vs discard/cabal.

What is your list? It sounds like the curve is a bit high, and / or your missing some Elephant Grasss.

I've tested Vexing Shusher and since there is o where else for removal to go it just eats removal and become irrelevant. GSZ'ing for it is almost alway wrong since if that GSZ resolves you would much rather have an Argothian in play.

[U_mage]

Redacted

[Bertrand Hustle]

Mirri's will help dial up the right threat, and you should run 3. You will win so many more game with a Guile resolved against this type of deck that without. Guile in a way negates discard if you play it right, and can keep the enchantress effects coming.

This, you can't go wrong with 3 Guiles. The Confinement lock is considerably more stable with Guile on the table and you are much more adaptable at pretty much any point in the game with it.

I strongly think 3 Guile 3+ Grass is and should be core Enchantress.

Speaking of "core Enchantress", we really need a formal primer and guide to card choices, keepable hands as well as some sample configurations to help get heat up this deck's development. I'm more than willing to volunteer some time this week to make a fresh OP since the deck has changed in quite a few ways since 2007. I remember around August (I think) was the last time we were punting around ideas for what are default cards beyond the old shell that still remains.

[ESG]

I have problems with weenie aggro decks, especially gobblins. ita takes too long before I am in the 'comfort zone'.

regarding pyro. what abt vexing shusher? I know it isn't an enchantment but cld protect us frm counter/top.

Goblins is a cakewalk if you have Elephant Grass. The only time Goblins is scary is if you have a land-light hand on the draw and they have Aether Vial and a Rishadan Port or two. If you're encountering Goblins a lot, make sure you have the maximum number of Elephant Grass mainboard and play a Chrome Mox or two to help get around Ports.

Vs. Grixis Control, you don't want Vexing Shusher; you just want a higher threat density or a way to refill on cards after you get Cabal Therapied. I haven't seen any lists with CounterTop. I always run Krosan Grip out of the board if I see Counterbalance or suspect it after Game 1.

Usually there's too much combo in my area for me to run Enchantress, but I have been testing some new cards over the past month or so. Myth Realized has been relatively strong. I was already running Sensei's Divining Top, but Top plus Myth really speeds up the growing process. The pros to Myth Realized are that you have a higher threat density that isn't dependent on enchantresses and it's cheap to cast in a deck that can suffer from being top-heavy. The cons are that you have more triggers to remember and the games take slightly longer to play out because the opponent can chump block for several turns until you overwhelm them. I've also been running Song of the Dryads and have mixed feelings about it. It's not good enough in tempo matchups, but I like it elsewhere.

[U_mage]

we got a pilot into day 2 this weekend, but he was 7-5 when i asked coverage about it

[cherson]

My current decklist.
3 elephant
4 enchantress p
3 guile
2 oblivion ring
2 rip
1 sigil
3 solitary
3 sterling
2 suppression field
4 utopia
4 wild growth

9 forest
1 karakas
2 Plains
3 serra's
1 taiga
4 windswept

4 argothian
1 emrakul
1 helm
3 gsz

Sb:
2 blood moon
2 carpet
1 choke
2 city of solitude
1 ground seal
3 leyline
1 replenish
1 rip
2 seal of prim

Maybe it was just bad luck but I lost 4 of 6 games vs gobblin. I will consider the fourth grass. Maybe it works out. You never thought about Island sanctuary?

[Concordant]

Moat or Solitary Confinement is better than Island Sanctuary in almost every way. I also lost 2 out of 3 vs goblins recently (including one game where the opponent attacked for ~20 on turn three on the play) so i know how it feels. In general we should be heavily favoured against pure aggro decks though. With a decklist geared towards aggro we should even be able to get the odds close to 90-10 in our favor imo.

[FoolofaTook]

Edit: Antother great tempo card that can help push through your gameplan and help dial up threats is Kruphix's Insight, a card that is relatively untested. "who needs enchantress's when your drawing cards regardless."



Just looking at the synergies makes me want to try out Kruphix's Insight with Gigapede and Worm Harvest as alternate win-cons. Enchantress always has enough mana to make them scary.

[cherson]

Moat or Solitary Confinement is better than Island Sanctuary in almost every way. I also lost 2 out of 3 vs goblins recently (including one game where the opponent attacked for ~20 on turn three on the play) so i know how it feels. In general we should be heavily favoured against pure aggro decks though. With a decklist geared towards aggro we should even be able to get the odds close to 90-10 in our favor imo.

Moat is currently not within my budget :(
No doubts about solitary confinement but if u lack cards to discard you can't play it or you have to sacrifice it next turn. Island sanctuary costs one less and u can choose turn by turn if u want to draw or not. I will consider it as alternative to fourth elephant.

BTW, what du u guys think about courser of kruphix?

[btm10]

Moat is currently not within my budget :(
No doubts about solitary confinement but if u lack cards to discard you can't play it or you have to sacrifice it next turn. Island sanctuary costs one less and u can choose turn by turn if u want to draw or not. I will consider it as alternative to fourth elephant.

You just want the fourth Grass. If you want yet another answer, then I recommend Sphere of Safety. I personally don't think Sphere is worth it for such a good matchup though.



BTW, what du u guys think about courser of kruphix?

He's fine, especially with Guile and Exploration. I'd definitely run one if Earthcraft got unbanned.

[Concordant]

Moat is currently not within my budget :(
No doubts about solitary confinement but if u lack cards to discard you can't play it or you have to sacrifice it next turn. Island sanctuary costs one less and u can choose turn by turn if u want to draw or not. I will consider it as alternative to fourth elephant.


I can totally understand that Moat is out of your budget, and you should not feel pressured to get it. Personally I don't run it anymore even though I have one. Moat is (very) good against goblins, but Sphere of Safety is actually better against most other decks.

Once your opponent has a lethal board, he will likely have a lethal board for the rest of the game. In other words, it is very rare that you would want to prevent your opponent from attacking on one turn but allow it the next. Confinement also has an effect the same turn you cast it even if you have to sacrifice it the next turn. A 3 mana fog which also draws a card or two isn't all that bad. With Island Sanctuary you have to wait one turn and skip a draw before you get any effect, and goblins might still tutor up Goblin Sharpshooter + Skirk Prospector or similar.

Elephant Grass does not beat goblins by itself, but it is very important since it usually slows your opponent down enough to let you to set up a confinement lock.

[U_mage]

Freggle, what's your current list look like?

[simdude]

So I played in a local event this weekend with 29 players and I'm embarassed to say I got absolutely trashed. I ended 1-4 with my only "win" being a bye. I had written up quite a bit but then my computer crashed on me and so I'm just going to go over the highlights.

I played against UR Delver, Death and Taxes, Jeskai Delver, and Omnitell.

The UR Delver match is typically fine but I got greedy in game 1 and let a solitary go with lots of backup plan in hand not thinking about the fact he could have double bolt which did me in. Game 2 was just some unlucky openers although for a mull to 5 I made it close.

I won game one vs. D&T but lost games 2 and 3 to cataclysm after I had dumped all my resources into dealing with canonist and spirit of the labyrinth. The rub-ins were that I was just a mana away from casting Nevermore on Cataclysm game 2.

In round 3 game 3 versus more Delver I made a very bad misplay when I payed for an elephant grass a turn too long because it left me with two mana and stranded a solitary confinement in my hand that was going to be discarded to his sword of feast and famine anyway.

In the last round I played Omnitell and that is just such a rough matchup that I didn't have very high expectations but even these played out even more brutally with easy turn 3 kills both games.

My overperformers of the day were the Grass/Bloodmoon/Choke/Suppression Field package as well as StP which gets talked up around here and I feel dumb for not running before. My big underperformers were Karmic Justice and Sterling Grove. I'll admit to another big misplay where I misunderstood Cataclysm and thought Karmic Justice would interact favorably for us but I didn't realize Cataclysm is a sacrifice, not destroy, template. I think I need to listen to what others are saying and test out more Mirri's guile since the most I was ever running was a singleton but I always felt like if we're running 2-3 Guile we should be running 6 or so fetches and I've been enjoying Suppression Field and Blood Moon quite a lot which I feel like would be fighting against it.

Also congrats to the pilot who made day 2 of the SCG event.

[Watersaw]

I'm not a big fan of sigil personally since it doesn't do anything by itself. Going off of what I know of how Lossett plays them, mentor comes in for any fair matchup. I've yet to get any online so I don't have any input yet :/

EDIT: lol, just noticed that list has 7 Islands in it, pretty sure those should be forests

So I've been on the "Don't Play Sigil" hate wagon for a while and I've begrudgingly put it back in the deck (again). As slow as the card is it gives us something no other conventional win-conditon does: a game ending threat that has synergy with the rest of the deck and requires no further commitment. Yes, Emrakul is usually at least a full turn faster. But being able to get incidental 4/4s on board gives the deck an entirely new angle and is a life saver in games where your mana is restricted or they keep killing your enchantresses. crack Sterling Grove, find Sigil, suddenly you're back in the game.


U_mage, I'm in the camp that this is more easily answered by looking at the problem differently. You're not trying to beat their counter magic you are trying to pace their tempo. ...and therefore you should be looking at ways to keep the tempo at parity. The main reason tempo matters in these match-up is because of their super efficient threats. Negating, of slowing their cheap threats will achieve the the same desired effect. As you you will end up doing nothing, and they will end up doing nothing. i.e. Elephant Grass you should have a 4th. ...and you should consider Swords to Plowshares although that isn't on paper terribly effective against young pyro (but has been functioning fine for me.)

...

Cards like City of Solitude are a tempo loss (you waste the turn you cast city) and it does not affect the board which is how you die.

...

Edit: Antother great tempo card that can help push through your gameplan and help dial up threats is Kruphix's Insight, a card that is relatively untested. "who needs enchantress's when your drawing cards regardless."


This and This. StP is awesome because it buys you a lot of time. City of Solitude is not because if they are holding up enough counters for City to matter it won't land, and if they don't they just shrug and continue beating you to death. A lot of times you can afford to wait a turn to sidestep Daze. If you do decide to risk running into it, make sure you can keep up if they do have it.

Kruphix's Insight is AWESOME. I wouldn't base the engine around it though.


Just looking at the synergies makes me want to try out Kruphix's Insight with Gigapede and Worm Harvest as alternate win-cons. Enchantress always has enough mana to make them scary.

...although I could be convinced otherwise


This, you can't go wrong with 3 Guiles. The Confinement lock is considerably more stable with Guile on the table and you are much more adaptable at pretty much any point in the game with it.

I strongly think 3 Guile 3+ Grass is and should be core Enchantress.

Speaking of "core Enchantress", we really need a formal primer and guide to card choices, keepable hands as well as some sample configurations to help get heat up this deck's development. I'm more than willing to volunteer some time this week to make a fresh OP since the deck has changed in quite a few ways since 2007. I remember around August (I think) was the last time we were punting around ideas for what are default cards beyond the old shell that still remains.

I'd add 4 Argothian Enchantress, 3+ Green Sun's Zenith, 4 Enchantress's Presence, 4 Wild Growth and 4 Utopia Sprawl to the core. Maybe 2 Solitary Confinement.

Not to detract, but I've been playing a little without Guile and it's been running fine so far. Although it's not a large enough sample to truly weigh in.

[Freggle]

Freggle, what's your current list look like?

Current? I really haven't been playing. However, the last list that I would consider solidly tested would be the one quoted below. I took out Kruphix's Insight I think for the 4th Grass, but I'm unsure.





Main Deck:

Creatures
4 Argothian Enchantress
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

Artifacts
1 Helm of Obedience

Sorceries
4 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Kruphix's Insight -- I'm not certain where I stand on this card in this list but lately I have been jamming it.

Enchantments
4 Enchantress's Presence
4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Wild Growth
3 Rest in Peace
3 Suppression Field
3 Solitary Confinement
3 Elephant Grass
3 Mirri's Guile
1 Banishing Light

Lands
4 Serra's Sanctum
4 Windswept Heath
1 Plains
1 Karakas
11 Forest

Sideboard:
4 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Swords to Plowshares
3 Stony Silence
2 Banishing Light
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Gaddock Teeg

General Notes on this Build:

This list was built to be the most tempo aggressive it could be. To do so I was looking for cards with immediate board impact, and were easy to cast. Large tournaments are won on card quality AND CONSISTENCY. This deck was built to be the most consistent I could possibly make it. Therefore, I challenged myself to keep it GW although I aimed for Gw. As I tested 3rd colors the deck became more vulnerable to various strategies, and draw variance and so I limited back to GW. There are off-color cards this deck would love to play to give this deck more game against other strategies, however adding them made the deck overall weaker as I observed with my personal testing.

Common Card Questions: ...

[cherson]

Moat is (very) good against goblins, but Sphere of Safety is actually better against most other decks.

Confinement also has an effect the same turn you cast it even if you have to sacrifice it the next turn. A 3 mana fog which also draws a card or two isn't all that bad. With Island Sanctuary you have to wait one turn and skip a draw before you get any effect

Elephant Grass does not beat goblins by itself, but it is very important since it usually slows your opponent down enough to let you to set up a confinement lock.

You are right re sphere. I have one and will add it to the Sb instead of a fourth grass or on top of it.

Fully agree on the island / solitary thing and won't add it. I hope it was just bad luck vs goblin and will change next time.

[Concordant]

You are right re sphere. I have one and will add it to the Sb instead of a fourth grass or on top of it.

Fully agree on the island / solitary thing and won't add it. I hope it was just bad luck vs goblin and will change next time.

The Sphere of Safety is not an alternative to Elephant Grass; they do almost opposite things.

Sphere of Safety locks the opponent out from attacking you and is immune to Abrupt Decay, but it comes out late in the game. In particular, it does not come out in time to save you against a fast start from goblins. Elephant Grass is played early and keeps the opponent busy for a turn or two, but it does not stay in play very long nor does it stop your opponent from attacking.

Elephant Grass is also an efficient way to draw cards, typically drawing you 2-3 cards for 1 mana. Those cards are likely to contains some other 1 mana enchantment which will fill up your hand even if you started the turn with only 1 card. Expensive cards like Sphere of Safety might draw you some cards, but you usually wont have any mana left so you'll end the turn with only 2 or 3 cards in hand rather than a full grip.

Goblins is normally not a very common deck, but if you face it a lot and are looking for budget-friendly cards specifically for that matchup, you could consider CoP:Red or Dueling Grounds. The 4th elephant grass should be your first priority though.

[cherson]

The Sphere of Safety is not an alternative to Elephant Grass; they do almost opposite things.

The 4th elephant grass should be your first priority though.

I will give it try with the fourth elephant. I guess it will work out fine until I'm in the bubble. As it was mentioned before I have to shut the door early, especially vs goblins/weenie.
Thanks for your comments. I will post the results soon.

[VonPlat]

I was able to sneak in a Legacy side event while at GP Las Vegas and went 3-2 (technically 2-2, my first round opponent didn't show). I was playing a Bant Enchantress build that ran blue only for 1 Energy Field in the mainboard and 1 In the Eye of Chaos out of the side.

Round 1
---------

Essentially a bye. My opponent never showed.

Round 2
---------
vs. Colorless Robots

Game 1 I kept a shaky hand and combined with Steel Overseer and Signal Pest he makes fairly short work of me.

-1 Mirri's Guile, -1 Emrakul, -1 Energy Field
+1 Worship, +1 Harmonic Sliver, +1 Suppression Field

Game 2 I was able to get a Solitary lock, dug into Rest in Peace and Helm, and away went his library. I saw him resideboarding and considered this a read that he was putting in specific anti-combo hate.

-1 Rest in Peace, -1 Helm of Obedience
+1 Emrakul, +1 Suppression Field

Game 3 was decided by one fateful card: Tangle Wire on turn 2. After that I couldn't do anything to mount a defense and was crushed by pumped Vault Skirges.

Round 3
---------
vs. Jund

Game 1 I land a Sphere of Safety and a Sigarda. Without a real anti-air plan vs a big hexproof beater or a way to meaningfully race he fell quicky to the Host of Herons.

-2 Mirri's Guile, -1 Banishing Light, -1 Sigil of the Empty Throne
+2 Solitairy Confinement, +1 Rest in Peace, +1 Sigarda

Game 2 he stumbles on mana a fair bit on a mull to 5. He lands Deathrite, I land Rest in Peace. He manages to nail 3 Wild Growths with a Maelstrom Pulse before I get up double Sterling Grove. Resolve a Sigarda and he's actually locked out of the game. His hand was several abrupt decays, a Tarmogoyf, and a Liliana when the 4th swing of my angel finished him off.

Round 4
---------
vs. Elves

I don't really remember what happened here decision-wise very clearly because I got Ruric Thar'd turn 3 into turn 4 Craterhoof game 1 and then game 2 I got Craterhoofed on turn 3. I had never playtested against this matchup so I'm not certain I kept correct hands. Without either Elephant Grass or Suppression Field to disrupt his game plan he was free to just go ham against me.

Round 5
---------
vs Miracles

Game 1 my opponent never saw a top or a meaningful amount of fetchlands to manipulate his late game counterbalance. This let me just go nuts chaining cantrips into each other until I had enough mana to hardcast Emrakul. Instead of waiting to see if he had a Terminus off the top to handle my Emrakul he conceded.

-3 Elephant Grass, -1 Sphere of Safety
+2 Suppression Field, +1 Choke, +1 In the Eyes of Chaos

Game 2 I kept a bad hand and was punished for it. 20 points of damage from a Containment Priest.

Game 3 was a blowout. I cast turn 1 Myth Realized, assuming he wouldn't be in a position to counter it turn 1. He let it resolve and I slowly built up my lore counters. After a few early pokes, though, I knew I needed to utilize most of my mana to dig into some significant disruption before he could start beating me to death with 4/4 fliers. I cast some cantrips to dig and land both Enchantress's Presence and an In the Eyes of Chaos. He's historically been afraid of letting me turn my Wild Growths into Ancestral Recalls so I know I can use my Presence to test the waters. Several fetch cracks and top activations later I know he has nothing but what's in his hand to deal with In the Eye of Chaos. I toss it out and activates top to move 3 around, tops to draw, and Tears my recently resolved Presence. I'm fairly certain he could have used his Wear/Tear off Counterbalance to counter those spells but I'm thankful he decided to use it to kill off some part of my value engine instead. I land a Suppression Field and use this opportunity to start rebuilding my hand while Myth Realized does all the work. A couple swings later and he's finished.

Overall I have a pretty positive impression. It was one of my first Legacy events where I wasn't primarily playing against decks running proxies so I knew these matchups were against people with real experience piloting their decks. If I could change anything it would probably be cutting Energy Field entirely for a 3rd Solitairy Confinement.

If anyone has any questions or wants to see a deck list I'd be happy to answer questions or provide the complete list after I get back from Vegas this evening.

[simdude]

So I've been brewing with a build which goes deep on the blue cards so that it can play the Brainstorm/Ponder/Force of Will combo. I can't help but feel like this is the result of some crazy internet argument but it's been a blast to play, I think shores up some of the weaknesses of the deck while not exposing to too many new ones, and maybe I'm insane but I wanted to throw it out there and see what people thought.


Land (19)
1x Flooded Strand
3x Forest
1x Island
1x Karakas
2x Misty Rainforest
2x Savannah
2x Serra's Sanctum
2x Tropical Island
1x Tundra
4x Windswept Heath

Creature (5)
4x Argothian Enchantress
1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

Artifact (2)
2x Helm of Obedience

Enchantment (23)
3x Copy Enchantment
3x Elephant Grass
4x Enchantress's Presence
3x Energy Field
1x Oblivion Ring
3x Rest in Peace
1x Solitary Confinement
2x Utopia Sprawl
3x Wild Growth

Instant (7)
4x Brainstorm
3x Force of Will

Sorcery (4)
4x Ponder

Sideboard (15)
1x Flusterstorm
1x Force of Will
1x Gaddock Teeg
1x Nevermore
1x Banishing Light
4x Leyline of Sanctity
1x Sigil of the Empty Throne
2x Sterling Grove
3x Swords to Plowshares

First, let's talk about how this mana base is so very very far from optimized that I'm not sure where to even begin. Having to mulligan hands with Sanctum hurts so much because we're playing less wild growth effects that I'm actually thinking about cutting this key card down to a single copy but I'm afraid that will make casting Emrakul too difficult in many situations. Second I wanted to talk about the glue of the deck - copy enchantment. This card has surprised me and way over-performed with it's ability to be a second RIP for securing the combo against abrupt decay or just acting like presence 5-7. And of course I didn't want to just drop the deck if I wasn't at least trying it in a daily event or something so I've outlined a Daily I played on Sunday and how that went. I should caveat that my list is slightly off from what I've listed above because I'm missing the rainforests, which are about as integral as you might expect, and the sideboard FoW.



I played against Zombardment (why do I keep running into this deck?), Miracles, Reanimator, and RUG Delver.

Round 1 - Zombardment - They are splashing green for abrupt decay and DRS so locking them out becomes much harder. I experience some pretty terrible variation and in game 1 draw lands for about 5-7 turns while having 1/2 enchantresses out which gives them enough time to fight through the hate. Game 2 is a similar story where I draw 17 of the 19 lands in the top 30 cards of the deck but manage to pull the game out after I finally hit gas. Game 3 the only land I recall seeing is a single sanctum while mulliganing down to 4. I eventually keep a hand I think was Argothian, RIP, Helm, and I think ponder but it didn't matter and I get wrecked before I start drawing anything of use. 0-1.

Round 2 - Miracles - I don't have much to say about this round. I felt a bit weaker against countertop than usual because I had a few more stranded brainstorm/ponders which couldn't be used as cantrips in the same way that wild growths can but I still felt fine in the matchup. I think this is the most important matchup to test because I don't want to become too weak to it in this brew. I think keeping Sigil around in the sideboard is very key. 1-1.

Round 3 - Miracles - I am probably even only talking about this right now because of this round. This might be the best, and most unusual games of magic I've played in a long time and I'm sorely disappointed that I didn't record this. Round 1 I play an early RIP which turns out to completely wreck my opponent since they were on reanimator and could find no hate. Round 2 is fairly short and straightforward where they're on the play now and turn 1 entomb with turn 2 animate dead. I Force the animate dead but they force back and I'm quickly dispatched by Grizzy followed by Tidespout Tyrant. In game 3 I'm able to slow his game enough that I land an early RIP but after a bit he finds abrupt decay, uses it EOT, uptaps, entombs, and animates dead for Grizzy. I'm not too poorly developed on board but I don't know what I can do until I realize that he has a SECOND Griselbrand in his graveyard. I cast copy enchantment and thankfully it resolved because I copy HIS animate dead and get my own Griselbrand from his Graveyard. The advantage is mine though because I have elephant grass out so I can attack and gain back the life to keep drawing cards. Eventually he gets an Iona into the graveyard and animates it as well. I try to dig for Force/Flusterstorm but fail to find either and have to settle for StP his Griselbrand putting him back to 8 life with Iona on board. I untap and draw Karakas for the turn, bounce his Iona and get into the red zone with Griselbrand. On his turn he plays large Pernicous Deed which will blow up my board save for the lands and he proceeds to do so. However I was left with 7 lands so I RIP, Helm, and activate for the win. 2-1.

Round 4 - RUG Delver - I think I've stabilized in game 1 but die to bolt. I really need to learn to respect the game 1 bolt more since I know there's only so much we can do to play around it but I shouldn't be this forgetful. The story of this round basically comes down to the increased number of non-basics I'm playing in the deck and how tough it is to cast 3 CMC spells with a wasteland weakness. My opponent plays either 2 or 3 game 2 but I'm able to stabilize at some point thanks to RIP shrinking Goyf and StP dealing with Delver. Game 3 is similar to Game 2 but now that they're on the play the game is much more difficult. I have a good hand but between 2x wasteland, destructive revelry on a wild growth, and FoW I never get to play the game. 2-2.


I wonder if the brew is viable with the wasteland weakness. Lots of decks have that, but very few are trying to cast such a high-end mana curve like we are. I've been playing Legacy for about 2 years now and I have to say it's funny that when I started trying to deck out I realized I've spent the last 2 years not learning how to Brainstorm properly.

[cherson]

I like the idea of copy enchantment but on the other hand I don't like the idea of brainstorm/ponder/fow. I don't see the advantage. you are playing 11 non enchantress cards on top of argothian, helm and emrakul.
I think we need the enchantress spells to constantly draw cards and keep us alive in the bubble or find the missing card we need.
what are u actually afraid of that u need the fow's?
don't u think mirri's guile is enough to check the next cards instead of brainstorm/ponder?
In my opinion it is such a powerful and perfect card for this deck.

I am not quite sure but it also seems that splashing blue and cut sprawl/growth makes the deck even slower and that is one of the main issues at the moment anyway.

[simdude]

I like the idea of copy enchantment but on the other hand I don't like the idea of brainstorm/ponder/fow. I don't see the advantage. you are playing 11 non enchantress cards on top of argothian, helm and emrakul.
I think we need the enchantress spells to constantly draw cards and keep us alive in the bubble or find the missing card we need.
what are u actually afraid of that u need the fow's?
don't u think mirri's guile is enough to check the next cards instead of brainstorm/ponder?
In my opinion it is such a powerful and perfect card for this deck.

I am not quite sure but it also seems that splashing blue and cut sprawl/growth makes the deck even slower and that is one of the main issues at the moment anyway.

With RIP/Energy field as the main bubble we don't need to have the enchantment count as high because you aren't grasping through Solitary and I've never had problems finding enchantments since running this build, and in fact I'll go so far as to say I actually have LESS of a problem finding enchantments and enchantresses when I get to run these 8 filtering cantrips.

The reason I want FoW is that I'm afraid of combo. Combo decks are by far the biggest weakness of the deck. Plus it's nice to be able to force through their countermagic and make the Enchantresses/RIP/Helm/Energy Field stick in the fairer matchups where you don't have to hold it up to stop a Show and Tell or Animate Dead or whatever broken card.

Mirri's guile is definitely weaker than Brainstorm and probably weaker than Ponder. Brainstorm does all the things people are always going on about, that it hides cards from discard, shuffles useless things back in (I'm looking at you 3rd turn drawstep Emrakul), and provides huge card advantage when combined with fetchlands. I could be convinced that Guile might be better than Ponder for this deck but since I think getting to run FoW is the reason to do all this we need Ponder to get the blue card count there.

Finally, you aren't wrong that it makes the deck slower but I think I disagree that the speed of the deck is its problem. I think the lack of interactivity until we resolve hate cards, which are themselves expensive and tend not to resolve through countermagic, is the real problem.

[Concordant]

With RIP/Energy field as the main bubble we don't need to have the enchantment count as high because you aren't grasping through Solitary and I've never had problems finding enchantments since running this build, and in fact I'll go so far as to say I actually have LESS of a problem finding enchantments and enchantresses when I get to run these 8 filtering cantrips.

The reason I want FoW is that I'm afraid of combo. Combo decks are by far the biggest weakness of the deck. Plus it's nice to be able to force through their countermagic and make the Enchantresses/RIP/Helm/Energy Field stick in the fairer matchups where you don't have to hold it up to stop a Show and Tell or Animate Dead or whatever broken card.

Mirri's guile is definitely weaker than Brainstorm and probably weaker than Ponder. Brainstorm does all the things people are always going on about, that it hides cards from discard, shuffles useless things back in (I'm looking at you 3rd turn drawstep Emrakul), and provides huge card advantage when combined with fetchlands. I could be convinced that Guile might be better than Ponder for this deck but since I think getting to run FoW is the reason to do all this we need Ponder to get the blue card count there.

Finally, you aren't wrong that it makes the deck slower but I think I disagree that the speed of the deck is its problem. I think the lack of interactivity until we resolve hate cards, which are themselves expensive and tend not to resolve through countermagic, is the real problem.

I've also considered a blue version of the deck for FoW, but never actually tried it. Glad to see someone do.

Some comments/questions: Have you considered cutting Ponder and moving FoW to the sideboard? It is not too uncommon to see established blue-based decks do this. The reason is of course that we'd rather have a second "must counter" card in our hand rather than a card that will 2-for-1 us at best, and which we can't cast at worst. This frees up 7 slots main which could be the missing sprawls/growths and maybe a sterling grove.

My experience with energy field is that it makes you extra vulnerable to Abrupt Decay. (Decay kills RiP followed
by discard/counter to get a 2-for-1.) Protecting the lock seems extra important. I also considered Monastery Siege as an alternative to Sterling Grove, but I never tried it so I don't know if it would work. Meddling Mage in the sideboard is another approach that doubles as protection vs the fair decks and disruption vs the unfair decks.

The manabase seems unreliable, especially if you'd increase the spraws/growth. Maybe -1 karakas, -1 savannah, -1 tropical island, +1 plains, +2 forest?

Sayin that Mirri's Guile is weaker than Brainstorm is like saying that Sensei's Divining top is weaker than Brainstorm. Brainstorm is a 1-shot effect that improves card quality immediatelly, whereas guile and top are slower to have an effect but do more over the course of a long game. In the case of Mirri's Guile, it also has a decent chance to work as an actual Ancestral Recall which is defenitelly better than Brainstorm. I still support your idea of testing Brainstorms, but it should be done for the right reason imo.

In the sideboard, I think flusterstorms/spellpierces could do more than leylines. The leylines are clunky unless you gt them in you starting hand, they only work against some combodecks, they dont stop your opponent from going off with PiF/AN/Time Spiral/whatever, and they dont help your blue count.

[cherson]

hi both,

I fully agree that blue is something what has to be considered but somehow I have my concerns about it. Maybe because I hate all this blue/counter game :rolleyes: that is why I play enchantress. green white offers everything to the deck needs whereas I have to admit that engery field and especially monastery siege are perfect cards to add.

I play u/b reanimate and know how great brainstorm and ponder are but personally I don't think they fit in this deck. As concordant said it is hard to compare brain/ponder/mirris because u use them in a different way. mirris is an enchantress and therefore just fits. drawing cards, checking top deck before solitary trigger, support serra's sanctum etc. - but of course there are several positive aspects for brainstorm/ponder. hiding, shuffling etc.
maybe the sideboard idea is great hence u can decide if you really need counter in the matchup or not.

really looking forward to the tests which I assume u will do.

[simdude]

Some comments/questions: Have you considered cutting Ponder and moving FoW to the sideboard? It is not too uncommon to see established blue-based decks do this. The reason is of course that we'd rather have a second "must counter" card in our hand rather than a card that will 2-for-1 us at best, and which we can't cast at worst. This frees up 7 slots main which could be the missing sprawls/growths and maybe a sterling grove.


I haven't considered doing that yet but I like it. I'll put it on the long list of things to try at some point or another.



My experience with energy field is that it makes you extra vulnerable to Abrupt Decay. (Decay kills RiP followed
by discard/counter to get a 2-for-1.) Protecting the lock seems extra important. I also considered Monastery Siege as an alternative to Sterling Grove, but I never tried it so I don't know if it would work. Meddling Mage in the sideboard is another approach that doubles as protection vs the fair decks and disruption vs the unfair decks.


I have sterling groves in the sideboard plus nevermore which I think I would bring in for the BGx matchups, but I'll admit that in my experience the online metagame does not have the same number of BGx I see in paper so I've been able to slide by dealing with getting too wrecked by abrupt decay. Monastary Siege is a card I've considered but haven't tested yet and Meddling Mage sounds like another good card to go on the testing list. The best thing I can say is that copy enchantment has been super helpful in not getting 2 for 1'd because you can create backup copies of RIP (or energy field if they're a REB deck).





The manabase seems unreliable, especially if you'd increase the spraws/growth. Maybe -1 karakas, -1 savannah, -1 tropical island, +1 plains, +2 forest?



The mana base is the number 1 thing I need help with so thank you I'll test this out.




Sayin that Mirri's Guile is weaker than Brainstorm is like saying that Sensei's Divining top is weaker than Brainstorm. Brainstorm is a 1-shot effect that improves card quality immediatelly, whereas guile and top are slower to have an effect but do more over the course of a long game. In the case of Mirri's Guile, it also has a decent chance to work as an actual Ancestral Recall which is defenitelly better than Brainstorm. I still support your idea of testing Brainstorms, but it should be done for the right reason imo.

In the sideboard, I think flusterstorms/spellpierces could do more than leylines. The leylines are clunky unless you gt them in you starting hand, they only work against some combodecks, they dont stop your opponent from going off with PiF/AN/Time Spiral/whatever, and they dont help your blue count.

I should probably admit I was being a bit hyperbolic with the brainstorm talk but when a card consistently gets discussed as one of the strongest cards in the format it's easy to just follow that rhetoric. Brainstorm has been great against the many many Grixis decks I'm seeing online because hiding things from Cabal Therapy has been a priceless effect and shuffling Emrakul back in has never felt so good. I sincerely think it improves consistency in a way that mirri's guile cannot compare to. Hiding, shuffling, and consistency are my reasons for wanting to run it and it's performed perfectly well in those areas.

I agree leylines are clunky, but as I mentioned I keep seeing Grixis Delver/Pyromancer/Control decks over and over and I'm not sure that there's anything quite as effective. I think it will always just have to come down to being a high variance card where sometimes its the greatest thing ever and other times it's useless. I'll say though it wouldn't take much convincing for me to run more flusterstorms because that has been SUCH a great card.

Can't wait to keep on testing.

[s3lggiw]

My ideal build (to me, this is the core of enchantress):

4 Windswept Heat
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Verdant Catacombs
1 Karakas
3 Serra's Sanctum
2 Savannah
1 Taiga
1 Plains
5 Forest
1 Dryad Arbor

4 Argothian Enchantress
1 Emrakul

4 Enchatress's Presence
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Sterling Grove
4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Wild Growth
2 Mana Bloom

2 Crop Rotate

My meta is combo and Miracles strong right now. Most of my matches would not go longer than turn 3, unless i get some hate down to slow it down.

I think enchantress needs to run Dryad Arbor as a 1-of, it needs 4 Green Sun's. I also think it needs a wincon that's not Words of War or RiP/Helm. Words of war is just so damn conditional it doesn't seem viable, or quick enough. RiP/Helm just seemed too susceptible to hate.

Mana Bloom is like the coolest fucking enchantment we have. You never really cast it for more than 1 counter, and if you have Solitary on the board with any draw engine, you can't flutter out. At all.

I guess i really can't figure out what to run from here. I'm tired of losing to Storm. Fuck you Storm.

How would you win versus Elves, Miracles, and 12 post (Turbo Eldrazi)?

[Concordant]

I think enchantress needs to run Dryad Arbor as a 1-of, it needs 4 Green Sun's. I also think it needs a wincon that's not Words of War or RiP/Helm. Words of war is just so damn conditional it doesn't seem viable, or quick enough. RiP/Helm just seemed too susceptible to hate.

Mana Bloom is like the coolest fucking enchantment we have. You never really cast it for more than 1 counter, and if you have Solitary on the board with any draw engine, you can't flutter out. At all.

I guess i really can't figure out what to run from here. I'm tired of losing to Storm. Fuck you Storm.

How would you win versus Elves, Miracles, and 12 post (Turbo Eldrazi)?

The thing with (prison) enchantress lists is that you don't need a quick and efficient wincon. Words of war is nice because it doubles as both removal for hatebears/planeswalkers and a resilient (if you play Replenish) wincon. The goal in traditional builds is to set up a complete lock first and then win at your leisure.

Sure, manabloom is cool but it is not even close to being in the core of enchantress imo. By playing mana bloom, crop rotation and 22 lands you have to allocate 6 additional slots that a normal build could use for mirri's guile, suppression field, rest in peace, replenish or similar. Mana bloom and crop rotation does not do anything unless you already have an enchantress in play, whereas the other cards i mentioned still interact with the opponent in a meaningful way.

Combo is generally accepted as a bad matchup for enchantress. If you have a lot of it in your meta you might want to switch deck. If that is out of the question, my suggestion would be to cut cards that depend on other cards (eg manabloom depending on having an enchantress in play). Vs combo you need to interact fast, typically on your turn 2, so you dont have tile for a lot of setup.

Elves is a terrible matchup; I dont know what to do about it. Miracles is about 50/50 imo depending on build. They have 8-12 counterspells ans we have 8-12 enchantresses that they must counter. In addition we have certain silver bullets, but they have terminus and councils judgment. Try to overload their counterspells by playing more "must counters". 12post is a race. If you have blood moon, now is a good time to bring them in.

[s3lggiw]

Sure, manabloom is cool but it is not even close to being in the core of enchantress imo. By playing mana bloom, crop rotation and 22 lands you have to allocate 6 additional slots that a normal build could use for mirri's guile, suppression field, rest in peace, replenish or similar. Mana bloom and crop rotation does not do anything unless you already have an enchantress in play, whereas the other cards i mentioned still interact with the opponent in a meaningful way.

I like the idea of this being a prison enchantress. Was that a thing at some point in time, or is that a common shorthand?

Mana Bloom at x2 is perfect for drawing into it with 1 enchantress effect down and 1 solitary down. It also manafixes if you need it t2, or t3.

I run crop rotate at x2 because i don't have any more sanctums, and it also helps out with karakas if needed.

I think guile is a bust in this prison build because it's only helping t2 or t3. With the bloom out you don't really need it, as every turn you're guaranteed an enchantment in hand (unless they counter it, but why would they?).

What are some good, low cost enchantments that would help prison quickly?

[Concordant]

I like the idea of this being a prison enchantress. Was that a thing at some point in time, or is that a common shorthand?

Decks that focus on locking the opponent out of the game are usually called prison decks. In most cases they operate by restricting the opponent's mana, thus preventing him from playing any spells. GW Enchantress is an unusual prison deck in that it does not prevent the opponent from playing spells, but rather prevents those spells from affecting you. The reason that I wrote prison enchantress rather than just enchantress in my post is that there are other decks that also use the Argothian Enchantress/Enchantress' Presense engine without actually setting up a lock. For example, there is an UG combo version which attempts to set up a loop with Words of Wind to bounce all the opponents permanents (every turn). The recent RiP-Helm version is a kind of hybrid, it can set up a lock, but it can also combo kill the opponent on turn 3.



Mana Bloom at x2 is perfect for drawing into it with 1 enchantress effect down and 1 solitary down. It also manafixes if you need it t2, or t3.

I run crop rotate at x2 because i don't have any more sanctums, and it also helps out with karakas if needed.


Statistically speaking, you will never fail to find more enchantments if you have 2 enchantresses in play (assuming a normal density of enchantments). You are basically saying that you can substitute one enchantress for a mana bloom and still sustain the confinement lock. While this is true, the mana bloom does not do anything on its own and it consumes a rather large amount of mana whick makes it clunky in the early game. I'm not saying that it is a bad card, mind you. Just that it is not 'the core' of enchantress.

Personally I run 3 Sanctums and find that quite enough even without Crop Rotations. While I do use Karakas, I don't find it very good except against Reanimator.



I think guile is a bust in this prison build because it's only helping t2 or t3. With the bloom out you don't really need it, as every turn you're guaranteed an enchantment in hand (unless they counter it, but why would they?).

What are some good, low cost enchantments that would help prison quickly?

That would be Mirri's Guile. Suppose you keep a hand with eg. Forest, Forest, fetch, enchantress, Mirri's Guile and some random enchantments. Your opponent plays Thoughseize T1 and takes your enchantress. If you play Mirri's Guile on your turn one and fetch at some point on turn two, you will have seen 7 cards at the beginning of turn three. Statistically, 1 of them will have been an enchantress. Had it been a bloom, you would only have seen three cards on turn three.

Admittedly, Mirri's Guile is not that amazing in the late game when you have several enchantresses in play. (It is still ok since it can help you decide when to crack the fetchlands and whether to pay for confinement and elephant grass.) Even though it is not amazing late game, it is still very important to the deck precisely because it is a low cost enchantment that helps setting up the prison quickly.

[cherson]

I played some random online games yesterday and I am really hacked off counter spells!! 2 of 3 decks run 4 fow and 4 other counterspells.
I know we already talked abt counter/top problems, anyone found a reasonable card against counters??
I will try vexing shusher online now before getting same on paper. we rely on our enchantress or rip/helmet combo that it might be worth to put them into the SB.

yesterday oponent countered my first argothian with fow, played mage on enchanrtess p, I was able to play rip. he had 3 cards left and I drew helmet. of course he had fow!!
blue sucks :rolleyes::wink:

my current SB:
4 leyline (considering to cut 1)
3 vexing shusher
1 blood moon (maybe a second one? but I didn't had a single match up where it was helpful :rolleyes:)
1 choke
1 city of solitude
1 elephant grass (no money for moat)
1 replenish
2 eidolon of rhetoric
1 seal of pir..

I play 2 carpet of flowers main because U_mage does it, seems reasonable due to the fact that 2 out of 3 decks play blue.
but I cut mirri's which I like.. another building lot..

[U_mage]

I play 2 carpet of flowers main because U_mage does it, seems reasonable due to the fact that 2 out of 3 decks play blue.
but I cut mirri's which I like.. another building lot..

Lol, i've actually reneged on that choice recently and gone back to the build I started with (Freggle's from a few posts back with -1 forest -1 guile +1 arbor +1 eidolon of blossoms) as my build got really difficult to board with and I've fallen back in love with guile

[Watersaw]

I know we already talked abt counter/top problems, anyone found a reasonable card against counters??

Any enchantress.

All jokes aside, helm is terrible against any Force of Will deck. It's way too fragile to depend on. Sigil of the Empty Throne and Emmy-chan both have less moving parts to disrupt and lack the side effect of RFGing themselves if shit goes south. Replenish and Eidolon of Blossoms are the truth.

Vexing Susher seems... pointless. How has Eidolon of Rhetoric been performing for you?

[Concordant]

I played some random online games yesterday and I am really hacked off counter spells!! 2 of 3 decks run 4 fow and 4 other counterspells.
I know we already talked abt counter/top problems, anyone found a reasonable card against counters??

Yes, it is called enchantress.dec . Seriously, our matchup against control is fine. Sometimes they've just got it but that happens in all matchups. The point is that we have more spells that they have to counter than they have counterspells.

If we are talking about delver/tempo decks, it is slightly different. Play around stifle on fetches and dont run your important spells into daze. This takes some practice but the matchup is not bad.

Also, the card you are looking for when they are countering all your enchantresses is Mirri's Guile. (Assuming you are playing >4 fetches. Otherwise you're looking for supression field.)

[cherson]

Lol, i've actually reneged on that choice recently and gone back to the build I started with (Freggle's from a few posts back with -1 forest -1 guile +1 arbor +1 eidolon of blossoms) as my build got really difficult to board with and I've fallen back in love with guile

I actually can't watch your stream. too late for me ;) I watch the replays on YT.
I liked the idea of the carpets but the guils are also too important for me. On paper I play 3 guiles and carpets SB.
but online is so much blue control that I like the additional mana. have to try it over and over again.



Any enchantress.

All jokes aside, helm is terrible against any Force of Will deck. It's way too fragile to depend on. Sigil of the Empty Throne and Emmy-chan both have less moving parts to disrupt and lack the side effect of RFGing themselves if shit goes south. Replenish and Eidolon of Blossoms are the truth.

Vexing Susher seems... pointless. How has Eidolon of Rhetoric been performing for you?

maybe I was just so upset because I had him by the balls and he screwed everything. I just played it bad because I was too confident.
anyway I need to figure it out how to play vs control proper. I do too many mistakes by not being patient.

you tried the shusher or is just a personal opinion?
eidolon is my card vs storm and elves but in my opinion a bit too slow because both decks are already finishing everything turn 2.
I even lost some games because I limited myself too much.



Yes, it is called enchantress.dec . Seriously, our matchup against control is fine. Sometimes they've just got it but that happens in all matchups. The point is that we have more spells that they have to counter than they have counterspells.

If we are talking about delver/tempo decks, it is slightly different. Play around stifle on fetches and dont run your important spells into daze. This takes some practice but the matchup is not bad.

Also, the card you are looking for when they are countering all your enchantresses is Mirri's Guile. (Assuming you are playing >4 fetches. Otherwise you're looking for supression field.)

As I said before maybe I was just upset :)
I run 3 suppression fields.
I love the guile card and I play 4 fetches plus 3 GSZ for shuffling my bib.
I tried to play 3 guile, then 1 guile + 2 carpets.
Not sure abt my next step.

[simdude]

Any thoughts on this new preview card? http://twitter.com/misterorange/status/611940962181509120/photo/1. Is it worse than Word of War and Words of Wisdom or does the fact that you don't have to to replace the draw actually mean something?

My intuition is that it's worse than Words of War because I fall for this same excitement every preview season but I can't help myself.

[Darklingske]

It's nice, but worse than any Words of... card since it doesn't replace the draw. You could still end up decking yourself (I know, very small percentage, but still...).

[Rakadis]

Gentlemen. Your thoughts?


https://scontent-arn2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/v/t1.0-9/11227770_10153245256522025_8974008350003144807_n.jpg?oh=1119e617022b87b25594fae5d787451f&oe=5632A03B

[siqatzi]

Presumably you can stack the sac trigger of a Solitary Confinement and the return trigger from this so that you can sac the Confinement and then return it in the same upkeep, avoiding having to discard a card?

Seems pretty good ^^

[U_mage]

Presumably you can stack the sac trigger of a Solitary Confinement and the return trigger from this so that you can sac the Confinement and then return it in the same upkeep, avoiding having to discard a card?

no, you have to target when both of the triggers would go on the stack, so you'd need a confinement already in the yard, so you still wouldn't get to draw. still an interesting card

[siqatzi]

no, you have to target when both of the triggers would go on the stack, so you'd need a confinement already in the yard, so you still wouldn't get to draw. still an interesting card

Ah okay. As you say, still an interesting card. Could allow you to let go a Solitary lock if you run out of cards and then get it back the next turn? Or nice if you've had Enchantress' Presence countered, or to return expended Elephant Grasses.

[Rampart]

Ah okay. As you say, still an interesting card. Could allow you to let go a Solitary lock if you run out of cards and then get it back the next turn? Or nice if you've had Enchantress' Presence countered, or to return expended Elephant Grasses.

it also allows you to draw cards with Eidolon of Blossoms if your running it. Seems like a lot of work though

[Darkenslight]

it also allows you to draw cards with Eidolon of Blossoms if your running it. Seems like a lot of work though

You can loop more Solitary Confinements without discarding if you have one in the graveyard, which makes it a near hard-lock.