[Deck] Solitaire (Enchantress)

[Koplinchen]

Hi fellow Solitaire players!

I am a decent Miracles player but my first real legacy deck was Enchantress and so it has always been my soft (magic) spot. On Monday I forgot my deck and a freind of mine lent his Enchantress. I fell in love again! But I am not too happy with his list and I want to find out some good one - the one I would like.

I read through this thread like 15 pages back and I woud like to present you with my list which I dont think is perfect and that is why I would apriciate your comments. The cards I really dont want to play is: Emrakul, Enlightened Tutor, 4 Sanctums - I think it makes our clunky deck even clunkier.

I think we want as much stability as possible - we always want enchantress - the easiest way how to loose against control or midrange is that they deal with first/second and then we have grass, confinement, sprawl... That is why I think we want no less than 4 Zenith.



4 Argothian E
4 E Precence
4 GSZ
4 Wild Growth
4 Utopia Sprawl
1 Dryad Arbor (necessary evil with 4 GSZ, but sometimes we need to search for it T1, can help with fetch agains Liliana)
4 E Grass
3 S Grove (I think we dont need more - two are cool as they shut down opp answers but playset is far too many)
2 Solitary Confinement
1 Sphere of Safety (I am not sure about this one - I think 3 Confinements is a minimum but a lot of you are playing this card so lets give it a try)

2 Mirri's Guile (I wish this one was 3)
1 Oblivion Ring (I think we really need one - this probably should be HELM OF OBEDIENCE)
2 Rest in Peace (I tried 1 Replenish; 1 Ground Seal but this seems like much better hate)
1 City of Solitude (resolivng this against a U deck is 90% gg, good against Rishadan Port, Top/Balance)
1 Words of War (I think this is a reason to splas R - best Win Con?)
1 Blood Moon (sort of a wincon - I think we need this to beat some decks)
1 Sigil of the Empty Throne (another great wincon - that dodges Decay and we can play it through Counterbalance - works without Enchantress)

20 lands (I like this manabase - prettey resilient)
4 Windswept Heath
2 Wooded Foothills
1 Savannah
1 Taiga
2 Plains
8 Forest
2 Serra's Sancutm


This is a little bit random.
Sideboard:
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Melira
3 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Choke
2 Humility (elves, S+T)
1 Karmic Justice
2 Krosan Grip (I am scared of Counterbalance; I feel that if they keep cc3 on top with Force of Will this version has hard time wining)
4 more slots... I think these should be some Canonist, Swords to Plowshares (infect, elves), tutor, helm (if its not maindeck), Runed Halo, Trinishphere, Dovescape, Stony Silence...



I know the last time I have been playing this deck was 2010 and things have changed - it would be wonderful if you could give me a few ideas about what do you think.

Thank you!


Tomáš, Enchantress enthusiast :-)

[Claymore1]

My friends and I took a road trip to go to Baltimore's store called Squabbles. For the legacy event Quest for Power. It was roughly a 4 our drive, my friends were on a 4 color delver, and the other one is on MUD, and I am piloting Enchantress. When we got there, we were amazed by how much Legacy selection they have, comparing it to our sad collection of legacy back in Viginia. We rarely have enough players as it is in Virginia, so we're excited to play with more.

Sign ups started and I filled up my deck list and grabbed some snacks at JPs, it's a little stand inside the mall, and I just grabbed something to snack on to give me some fuel for the system before the match begins.

Round 1: Versus Bryant (Brian?) - The Epic Storm

G1: This is a rather fast match, as he Duress me a few times, nailing my accelerations, while I was stuck at two basic lands with no acceleration, or any other plays, he then proceeds to to storm out for the lethal.
G2: Saw some hate, but he combo off before I can deploy them.

Lost 0-2
Current standing 0-1

Round 2: Versus Jason - Esper Mentor

G1: I kept a pretty good hand, and managed to lock him down pretty early ad he just scooped. He made a mistake accidentally dropped a card and revealing some counter magics to me early on, but he said that it wouldn't have mattered anyways as I had too much stuff going on.

G2: He had a turn 1 delver (which flipped the next turn), he dazed my acceleration, and forced my Enchantress, and he dropped two meddling mages back to back naming both the enchantress.

G3: I started a pretty standard land > Growth and passing the turn, he went turn 1 delver, I casted an Enchantress to use as bait if he has any counters, and he bite. I the used the last mana to drop elephant grass. He casted a few more things, and as soon as I saw his lands were tapped, those looks good in my eyes as I dropped Choke, and he was unable to recover from it as I just build up, not my defenses but straight for the kill with grabbing Sigil.

Win 2-1
Current standing 1-1

Round 3: Versus Jimmy - ANT

G1: He was just filtering through his deck, while I went turn 2 enchantress, turn 3 solitary, turn 4 another enchantress. And promptly chaining into growth effect and sterling grove. He conceded.

G2: He was on the play, but I have a turn 0 leyline of sanctity, and followed by Trinisphere at turn 2, and would be a Gaddok Teeg on turn 3. He conceded as he had no out, even though I don't really have any card draw at all, so finding my win condition would have taken me a long time.

he complimented me on my enchantress and he loves how all my basic lands are all Guru, as well as my beta english savannah. He said he also plays enchantress as well.

Win 2-0
Current standing 2-1

Round 4: Versus Mike (Punishing Jund)
This game was rather heart breaking for me, as towards the end of this game, my deck was starting to refuse to doing anything, and caried over to the next games as well...

G1: I had a pretty nice opening of having 2 fetchlands, 2 argothians, and the rest were growths and sprawls. That's alot of drawing power. However, the opponent dropped liliana, and I just felt sad as I watch my beautiful girls die. I was then facing a constant attack by a tarmogoyf.

G2: I had to mulligan down to 5 due to not having any mana, but my mull of 5 wasn't bad.
I had a 5 hand opener of a: Leyline of Sanctity, Fetchland, Forest, Utopia Sprawl, Sterling Grove.
With the free mulligan scry I also saw a forest, so while not the best, I also cannot be picky with a 5 card hand, and it is quite playable. However, an abrupt decay on my Uopia sprawl kept me off my white mana. I eventally managed to have two enchantress on the field, as well as a Mirr's Guile helping me dig. Bt for the ife of me, I can't drop the Solitary Confinement in my hand. I died unable to do anything from goyf beatdowns.

Loss 0-2
Current standing 2-2

Being rather disappointed with my last game, having 16 access to white and unable to find any, got me a bit disappointed. However, I thought to myself, that it's not too late for me. I can still make it, so long as I win the next one. My buddy who drove us on the 4 hour road trip is currently 0-4 on his 4 color delver, and my other buddy currently has the same record as me who's piloting MUD.

Round 5: Versus Jeremy - BUG Delver w/ Hymn to Tourach
During this game as well as the previous game, I started to tilt specially on what took place the next couple games.

G1: The opponent watches me as I painfully, spend my next remaining 4 turns untapping and tapping my land to just keep enchanting it with growths and sprawls, and using the same land to get my enchatress engine going. It sucks losing this way, but I did.

G2: ... Emrakul, is stalking me...
I have a pretty decent hand, I just needed a growth or a land, when I drew, it was Emrakul... I was like... Im am not too happy seeing you right now. I got two lands on the field with an argothian on the field, i need 1 mana to start dropping my 2x Enchantress's pressence, and or my solitary. When I passed the turn, the opponent hymn to tourach me, hitting emrakul and a presence. Both of which shuffled back. I thouroghly shuffled the deck, and I passed it to the opponent who then shuffled my deck. When he passed the turn back to me, I am hoping for a land or one of the 8 growth effects, i drew... Emrakul... The opponent played hymn to tourach again nailing Emrakul, he saw the emrakul again and he kinda chuckled, laughed or snorted or a combination of all, and my solitary both of which shuffled back in. I shuffled the crap out of the deck, and when he shuffled it it again and passed it to me. On my turn I drew... and t was emrakul. I am way beyond disappointed right now.

After this game, I decided to drop, as I feel like I am tilting.

Loss 0-2
Current standing 2-3

I decided to just buy some cards and bought my deck some new sleeves. Trying out the new KMC Hyper Mat Premiums, even though the tolarian guy only gave it an A+, as opposed to the Regular KMC Hyper Mat having an A++ rating. But I do love the glare front. Over all I had fun, a little disappointed at the end because I feel like I didn't really get to play. I don't think any revisions to the deck is a must, I know it was just misfortune.

[btm10]

Hi fellow Solitaire players!

I am a decent Miracles player but my first real legacy deck was Enchantress and so it has always been my soft (magic) spot. On Monday I forgot my deck and a freind of mine lent his Enchantress. I fell in love again! But I am not too happy with his list and I want to find out some good one - the one I would like.

I read through this thread like 15 pages back and I woud like to present you with my list which I dont think is perfect and that is why I would apriciate your comments. The cards I really dont want to play is: Emrakul, Enlightened Tutor, 4 Sanctums - I think it makes our clunky deck even clunkier.

I think we want as much stability as possible - we always want enchantress - the easiest way how to loose against control or midrange is that they deal with first/second and then we have grass, confinement, sprawl... That is why I think we want no less than 4 Zenith.



4 Argothian E
4 E Precence
4 GSZ
4 Wild Growth
4 Utopia Sprawl
1 Dryad Arbor (necessary evil with 4 GSZ, but sometimes we need to search for it T1, can help with fetch agains Liliana)
4 E Grass
3 S Grove (I think we dont need more - two are cool as they shut down opp answers but playset is far too many)
2 Solitary Confinement
1 Sphere of Safety (I am not sure about this one - I think 3 Confinements is a minimum but a lot of you are playing this card so lets give it a try)

2 Mirri's Guile (I wish this one was 3)
1 Oblivion Ring (I think we really need one - this probably should be HELM OF OBEDIENCE)
2 Rest in Peace (I tried 1 Replenish; 1 Ground Seal but this seems like much better hate)
1 City of Solitude (resolivng this against a U deck is 90% gg, good against Rishadan Port, Top/Balance)
1 Words of War (I think this is a reason to splas R - best Win Con?)
1 Blood Moon (sort of a wincon - I think we need this to beat some decks)
1 Sigil of the Empty Throne (another great wincon - that dodges Decay and we can play it through Counterbalance - works without Enchantress)

20 lands (I like this manabase - prettey resilient)
4 Windswept Heath
2 Wooded Foothills
1 Savannah
1 Taiga
2 Plains
8 Forest
2 Serra's Sancutm


This is a little bit random.
Sideboard:
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Melira
3 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Choke
2 Humility (elves, S+T)
1 Karmic Justice
2 Krosan Grip (I am scared of Counterbalance; I feel that if they keep cc3 on top with Force of Will this version has hard time wining)
4 more slots... I think these should be some Canonist, Swords to Plowshares (infect, elves), tutor, helm (if its not maindeck), Runed Halo, Trinishphere, Dovescape, Stony Silence...



I know the last time I have been playing this deck was 2010 and things have changed - it would be wonderful if you could give me a few ideas about what do you think.

Thank you!


Tomáš, Enchantress enthusiast :-)


I'm not the biggest fan of Arbor unless Earthcraft gets unbanned since it's a terrible topdeck and opens our manabase up to creature removal and we're already keeping a lot of hands with questionable mana. It's absolutely nuts of Earthcraft gets unbanned, though. Plenty of folks have had success with it so I can't say that it's straight-up wrong, but I still don't like it. One thing that is definitely suboptimal 0 Eidolon of Blossoms - it's very important that you be able to GSZ to draw cards under Confinement if you're relying on Confinement to stay alive. You're right that 3 Guile is better than 2. There's an argument for running a Sylvan Library over a Rest in Peace if you're not running Helm since Sylvan/Words of War is an engine that's completely independent of the Enchantresses. It's a pretty fast clock at 6 damage/turn and is a reasonable alternative to Confinement if all your opponent can threaten you with is creatures. The Eidolon/Replenish/Words kill I discussed a few pages back just takes way too much setup though. If you aren't running Emrakul then Sigil and Words are definitely the most compact win conditions. MD City is strong in some metas - like mine - where Lands, Miracles, and D&T are popular, but it is meta dependent. You mentioned shutting off Port, but it also stops Vial shenanigans and stops Lands from comboing on your turn, making it impossible for them to surprise you with Crop Rotation into the combo on your endstep (which is the easiest way to lose an otherwise quite positive matchup). The same reasoning applies to Blood Moon, which is the best card Red gives us, in my opinion. Other splashes would be more appropriate in different metas. Banishing Light is almost always better than O. Ring, but I can see arguments for a 1/1 or 2/1 split.

I agree that 4 Sanctums are too many, though I've been very happy with a 2/2 Sanctum/Nykthos split. Nykthos taps for colorless early in the game and can tap for green on big turns making it harder to choke on mana when you need to chain enchantments. I like the sideboard a fair bit. I go back and forth on Gaddock Teeg but he's one of the best options against combo even if he does cut off some of our own haymakers. I prefer Seal of Primordium and Aura of Silence to Grip against artifacts and enchantments because they're Enchantments and Aura is much more hateful than just being removal. You've also got Banishing Light/O. Ring to deal with Counterbalance, and City of Solitude to shut them down. Sure, you can get locked, but so can everyone and it's something of a corner case where the lock comes down fast enough to be a genuine problem. Swords is different because Elves and Infect are serious problems without actual removal for their creatures. Aegis of the Gods is Megadeus's tech and has worked out very well for me in testing in addition to Leyline. Stony Silence is great if you aren't on the Helm kill.

Hope this helps!

[Claymore1]

[Nykthos] I have never tried the card so I have no experience and opinion about it, I don't see myself replace Serra's Sanctum, and I try to refrain from adding more non-basics into the deck. Which is why I don't bother with Dryad Arbor. Though one of my games at Baltimore's Quest for power, it would have came in handy when I saw Liliana, but it also turns on their removal and wastelands, as well as the potential chance of having it in our opening hand when we are trying to open up with sideboard cards.

[O-ring vs B. Light] I am on the O-ring side on this one. When it's something I only have so few of, I rather keep it in my hand for when something unexpected happens. There is also the Replenish triggers involving mutiple O-rings, but that has never come up in all my time piloting the deck. The situation that has had happened to me a few times however, is when facing either a Nevinirral's Disk, Pernicious Deed, Reverent Silence, or All is Dust. I tend to drop an extra Solitary Confinement in play. So that once everything I have gets wiped, the confinement I have had exiled comes in and buys me a turn, or a few turns to either replenish everything back, or get rolling again working with what I have in hand.

[Leyline of Sanctity] I need to approach this card differently. I have it in my sideboard, it's great versus burn and some other decks, with the exemption of storm based decks. Even if you drop this on turn 0, the storm player will simply just ignore it as it is not doing anything to stop them. It's just sitting there, unless you can immediately back it up with Sterling Grove, but most lists here seems to run few of that card or abandoned it entirely. They will simply just start comboing off and once they generate enough mana and enough storm, they'll wish for their sideboard card to take it out, and then proceed to kill you.

[Concordant]

I disagree about Eidolon of Blossoms; I don't think it is needed. In the early game it is really clunky and might be stuck in your hand. Mid-late game it has potential, but the opponent is likely to have bolt/stp which turns the card into a mere cantrip.

[Koplinchen]

Thank you all!

Sylvan Library I think the card is amazing - not just you can combo it with WoW but it also allows you to draw for 4/8 and drop Confinement early. The trouble is that you cant use it while Confinement is on the board. I also think Guile droping T1 if you dont have anything better and search for land/enchantress T2 seems stronger for us.

Eidolon of Blossoms I completely agree with Concordant. The Replenish/WoW scenario is cute but almost unreal. If you search for it - it triggers and your opponent is going to play one of the two Swords he has in hand... You can mabye keep on discarding him and other stuff to Confinement and then draw a lot with Replenish. I am mabye missing something but I dont like it at all. Too clumsy

Emrakul Why is he good? Yet another horrible card to have in an opener. Bad top deck. How soon can we realisticaly cast him? 15 is only realistic with Sanctum into another Sanctum. It protects us against decking ourselves. It usually really kills our opponent - I have to admit that.

Dryad Arbor I think we have to play this rubbish. I am not happy about it at all but with 4 Zenith I think we kind of have to. It means we have 12 acccelerations...

City of Solitude It allow us a solitaire mode. wow! I remember - years ago - some of my friends when they found out that I only play 4-5 winc cons they focused on countering them and allowing the enchantress and grass and all that stuff hit the play. So for me this card is kind of a win-con as they must counter it or deal with it and it also helps us to stabilaze. Not to mention my meta is Tempo, Lands, Miracles. I also like I can sacrifice Confinement and cast another one...

Leyline of Sanctity I disagree here. I think without at least 3 of those we cant regulare beat Storm. Storm decks dont have that many answers - they already pack 4 Decay and they have to answer or play goblins... If they have a bit slower hand it protects us from discard. I really like the card. The only trouble I have with it is: how many to bring in in some oter matchups - jund? Hymn decks? 2/3? What to side out?



Can you please share your latest list, thank you!

[Julian23]

Regarding Emrakul, GSZ also protects you from decking if that should ever become a real concern. Other than that, it's a cute card but probably not needed in the vast majority of scenarios.

I'd be hesitant to run something like Nykthos. Just like Sanctum it's got a lot of potential to be problematic early on, while taking longer to actually do something useful. With the potential explosiveness this deck has I think one should build it to capitalize on that and not go with any "middle-of-the-road" compromises like Nykthos; 2 Sanctum feels like exactly what you would want. You don't want that slot to help you out on turn 1 or 2; that's what the rest of the super stable manabase is for. You want that slot to really heavily accelerate you on turn3+. Nykthos tries to do both things, but isn't really amazing at either. The only real upside I can see is being able to have both on the table for more than 1 turn, but compared to chaining Sanctum's I don't see that being enough of an advantage to warrant its inclusion.

[cab0747]

All,

I have loved the RIP Helm combo for as long as I knew it was "a thing". Along with that, prison decks have always interested me. While I know Enchantress is not T1, it seemed like an enjoyable deck to me. Over the past few months I have slowly been picking up the staples with wins at our Monday "FNM" events. I am very close and I am at the point where I want to get a solid list before finishing the deck.

Below is what I have right now. I have copied it from one of the posts here, but I am unsure about 2 cards. After hte list I will post a few questions I had. I would appreciate it if some of the players who actually have experience with this deck could help me out.

Creatures:
4 Argothian Enchantress
1 Eidolon of Blossoms
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

Lands:
9 Forest
2 Plains
1 Savannah
4 Windswept Heath
3 Serra's Sanctum

Spells:
1 Helm of Obedience
1 Banishing Light
3 Elephant Grass
4 Enchantress's Presence
3 Mirri's Guile
3 Rest in Peace
1 Solitary Confinement
1 Sphere of Safety
4 Sterling Grove
4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Wild Growth
1 Enlightened Tutor
3 Green Sun's Zenith


Now for the questions:

I would like to run Suppression field. Is it REALLY that bad of an idea to run Suppression field and some number of Sterling Grove? Grove seems too temping to pass up. Is a mix possible if I adjust the number of Groves?
With the posted list, 2x Exploration were the final cards in the list. However, I haven't seen this very often. At the moment , in my head, the last two cards are probably some mix of Exploration, Suppression field, and Solitary confinement. I am seeing that 19 land is low for Exploration and I have my fetch counter lower than most (making me thing that Suppression field might be fine).
I have the cards for the black splash. Has it been worth it for everyone? Again, running the black splash would make me want to run more fetches and then that might push suppression field out of my list.


I think that was it.

Thank in advance!

[Darklingske]

Now for the questions:

I would like to run Suppression field. Is it REALLY that bad of an idea to run Suppression field and some number of Sterling Grove? Grove seems too temping to pass up. Is a mix possible if I adjust the number of Groves?
With the posted list, 2x Exploration were the final cards in the list. However, I haven't seen this very often. At the moment , in my head, the last two cards are probably some mix of Exploration, Suppression field, and Solitary confinement. I am seeing that 19 land is low for Exploration and I have my fetch counter lower than most (making me thing that Suppression field might be fine).
I have the cards for the black splash. Has it been worth it for everyone? Again, running the black splash would make me want to run more fetches and then that might push suppression field out of my list.


I think that was it.

Thank in advance!
I like suppression field a lot. The small dissynergy it has with the few fetches we run and the Sterling groves are neglectable if you see what it hoses on the other side of the table. If you like it, play it, in a meta with lots of miracles, D&T it is really bonkers!
Exploration is a card I dislike in Enchantress. We don't play that many lands and often the exploration is a 1 or 2-off in the list and therefore you seldom see it in your opener and thus loses a lot of value (again, my personal opinion).
Concerning he black splash, I haven't played it yet, but I think that 4 or 6 fetches should be enough and that number is low enough to keep Suppression field in the list.

Hope this helps you a bit.

[Concordant]

In my opinion, the main reason for playing emrakul is that it is uncounterable. Many lists run 3 wincons, or two wincons+city of solitude. It is not too unreasonable for a control deck to get a hand with 3 counterspells, and without emrakul they could just let you draw your deck and counter the wincons. Playing emrakul means that this is no longer a viable approach.

[Megadeus]

Field is alright in some meta but not worth it a lot of the time. As for exploration it's not really a turn 1 card. It's a card you drop on turn 3 or 4 that cantrips for G and allows you to go completely crazy. That's why there's only two. Many times exploration was the difference for me between making your turn 3 a good setup turn to being a turn you actually can establish a solid lock.

[Concordant]

Field is alright in some meta but not worth it a lot of the time.

So, which decks do you think it is bad against? Apart from storm and reanimator which are horrible regardless.

[Megadeus]

It's not dead in any match up. It also hurts you with your fetches and sterling groves though. And in RIP/Helm that too. I like it enough but sometimes it just doesn't do anything when you want it to impact the board a bit more

[cab0747]

Thanks for the replies, everyone.

I have everything needed for the black splash, but I will start out with GW and go from there.

[Claymore1]

[Leyline of Sanctity] Is a great sideboard card for the likes of burn, discard and other types of decks. But don't resort to it to try to beat storm and think that you'll be okay. Because it does nothing against storm, as I already stated in my previous post, the card just sits there, it may protect you from their little discard effects, but it doesnt stop them at all. They will simply combo off and finish you.

[nedleeds]

"Little discard"? Have you played Enchantress? You understand Tendrils of Agony targets? What are they finishing you with? The internet has long since instructed Storm to stop playing reverent silence, in lieu of Abrupt Decay. They need natural Chain of Vapor in hand and you need to not land Grove. What have you been doing the 3-4 turns they have been digging for Decay for your Grove, then Chain your Leyline? If you do nothing for 3-4 turns you probably aren't beating Tribal Bringers anyway. Is anyone confidently emptying vs. possible elephant grass without looking at your hand? Saying it doesn't do anything is like saying Elephant Grass doesn't do anything.

[cab0747]

Ok, I think I have the list I am going to start with:

Creatures
4 Argothian Enchantress
1 Eidolon of Blossoms
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

Lands
9 Forest
2 Plains
1 Savannah
4 Windswept Heath
3 Serra's Sanctum

Spells
2 Suppression Field
1 Helm of Obedience
1 Banishing Light
3 Elephant Grass
4 Enchantress's Presence
3 Mirri's Guile
3 Rest in Peace
2 Solitary Confinement
1 Sphere of Safety
3 Sterling Grove
4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Wild Growth
1 Enlightened Tutor
3 Green Sun's Zenith

SB
1 Sun Titan
2 Choke
3 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Oblivion Ring
2 Stony Silence
1 Aegis of the Gods
3 Swords to Plowshares
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Replenish

My only lingering question is the land count: Is 19 enough? I was thinking about cutting the E. Tutor for the 20th land.

Are there any other glaring mistakes anyone can see?

[Koplinchen]

"Little discard"? Have you played Enchantress? You understand Tendrils of Agony targets? What are they finishing you with? The internet has long since instructed Storm to stop playing reverent silence, in lieu of Abrupt Decay. They need natural Chain of Vapor in hand and you need to not land Grove. What have you been doing the 3-4 turns they have been digging for Decay for your Grove, then Chain your Leyline? If you do nothing for 3-4 turns you probably aren't beating Tribal Bringers anyway. Is anyone confidently emptying vs. possible elephant grass without looking at your hand? Saying it doesn't do anything is like saying Elephant Grass doesn't do anything.

Thank you Nedleeds, I agree absolutely! I dont think it will save us but it can delay kill by some turns as they really need to have the answer (one Grip or Vapor is actually enough against Grove AND Leyline as they return one and go for PiF and play it again) but it is something and at least we can try to play some magic. And if we play T2 RiP... The things can get difficult for them.

[Megadeus]

It's not easy for storm to cobble together all of that plus the mana and the tutors to kill. Also you have other ways to interact. Stony shuts down their artifact mana, Aegis is another man that gives you hexproof, RIP shuts down any PiF, Suppression Field if you play it slows down their mana, and grove makes it near impossible to interact with you.

I'd say post board storm is very winnable if you play Leylines and other hate pieces.

[nedleeds]

Exactly, I think we all understand having white Leyline in play doesn't include a 'You Win the Game' clause. But you have a number of other anti storm cards that can come online at 2-3 mana, Leyline bridges you to those cards, and most importantly keeps them in your hand since you don't have Derpstorm to hide cards.

Aegis of the Gods is fantastic
Stony Silence and Rest in Peace are both great
Solitary can come on if you can get the engine going

if you are in Black there are even more disruptive enchantments ...

and here's an amazing fact, you can cast the card Leyline of Sanctity, so having a second isn't the worst like it is in decks like Sneak and Ape! In fact quite easily against a deck unlikely to pressure your mana. Even easier to cast a second one if you have pre-game one in play because Mark Rosewater was kind enough to design Serra's Sanctum. It may even ... cantrip!

Forest, Growth. Untap. Sanctum, Second Leyline.

[Stuart]

I played against Sneak & Show with Enchantress for the first time last night and went 0-2. I understand that combo is generally rough for us, but does anyone have tips for this particular matchup?

Game 1 he never cast SnT. He countered my Elephant Grass, then played Sneak Attack into Griselbrand and Emrakul. Game 2 he boarded out SnT, snuck in an Emrakul, and I didn't manage to rebuild before a 2nd Emrakul finished me off.

Seems to me that the match is winnable if:
1) they cast SnT
2) I can get some lock pieces down early
or 3) they're going slow.

Unfortunately, I get the sense that smart Sneak players won't cast SnT, they'll hold their countermagic for my lock pieces, and they're generally pretty quick!

[Concordant]

"Little discard"? Have you played Enchantress? You understand Tendrils of Agony targets? What are they finishing you with? The internet has long since instructed Storm to stop playing reverent silence, in lieu of Abrupt Decay. They need natural Chain of Vapor in hand and you need to not land Grove. What have you been doing the 3-4 turns they have been digging for Decay for your Grove, then Chain your Leyline? If you do nothing for 3-4 turns you probably aren't beating Tribal Bringers anyway. Is anyone confidently emptying vs. possible elephant grass without looking at your hand? Saying it doesn't do anything is like saying Elephant Grass doesn't do anything.

This is exactly the type of incorrect reasoning that made him say that it does nothing. While "nothing" is an exaggeration, it is much more accurate than this "they can't kill me if i have leyline" hubris. Claymore's point is precisely that they don't need "natural Chain of Vapor in hand"; they just filter until they have *one* of PiF, Ad Nauseam, Tendrils, Chain of Vapor or extra tutor in hand. That's like 8 cards to choose from, so not very hard to find. Once they have that they go off normally with PiF, replaying all their rituals then tutoring for chain of vapor, vaporizing your sterling grove and your leyline, finishing you off with a tendrils. Even if you get double sterling grove they can go for empty the warrens. And yes, a good combo pilot will go for a blind empty the warrens if you have a lot of shroud-effects. Moreover, you'll probably side out most of your elephant grasses so you are less likely to have both grass and leyline and grove and an enchantress.

Compare leyline to any other hate piece against storm and you'll see how mediocre leyline really is
Countertop - stops their mana and filtering
Chalice of the Void - stops their mana and (or?) filtering
Thalia - stops their mana and slows their filtering
Ethersworn canonist - stops their engine and slows their filtering
Gaddock teeg - stops their engine

You even said it yourself; in the end you have to rely on other hate pieces to stop your opponent.

In my experience, leyline slows the combo deck down by 1-2 turns, making it a turn 3-5 deck instead of a turn 2-3 deck. However, not playing enchantress turn 2 slows you down by at least one turn too. Suppose you go T0 leyline, T1 acceleration, T2 sterling grove, T3 enchantress. You now need to find a third hate piece on your next turn if we assume that their average kill is turn 4. During your fourth turn, you'll cast maybe 3-4 enchantments, so your enchantress will only have helped you 2-3 extra cards. This isn't better than a one mana brainstorm, and it really pinpoints the problem enchantress has vs combo decks: We have the best and most reliable engine of all legacy decks, but it takes a couple of turns to set up. A fast combo completely invalidates the advantage our engine would bring.

[Megadeus]

I don't really get why we're having this conversation. Are you saying cutting Leyline is correct or what? What are you implying

[Concordant]

I don't really get why we're having this conversation. Are you saying cutting Leyline is correct or what? What are you implying

We're having this conversation because of nedleeds snarky reply to claymore1, questioning whether claymore has played the deck and whether he knows how tendrils work.

While I have played around with other ideas, I don't have any suggestion that is significantly better than leyline. This is not because leyline is good, but because the options are either off-color, too situational, not available turn one or hits us too.

[Megadeus]

Except Leyline is good m. Because it comes down and not only prevents you from losing the game on turn 1, but protects the rest of your lock pieces from discard. Also it protects you from liliana and jace ultimates in other match ups, and helps you beat burn, and is great against the hymn decks. And it can't be countered. It also happens to have some nice interaction with intuition. There's many reasons why Leyline is so good in this deck, and being very good against storm is a large part of it. Saying that it's bad against storm because they might find their 2 of chain of vapor, you may as well say that for every lock piece. Decks probably should eschew stoneforge mystic because a lot of decks run bolts and plowshares to remove it.

[Concordant]

Except Leyline is good m. Because it comes down and not only prevents you from losing the game on turn 1, but protects the rest of your lock pieces from discard. Also it protects you from liliana and jace ultimates in other match ups, and helps you beat burn, and is great against the hymn decks. And it can't be countered. It also happens to have some nice interaction with intuition. There's many reasons why Leyline is so good in this deck, and being very good against storm is a large part of it. Saying that it's bad against storm because they might find their 2 of chain of vapor, you may as well say that for every lock piece. Decks probably should eschew stoneforge mystic because a lot of decks run bolts and plowshares to remove it.

I don't think you read my previous post. Storm does not have to find their chain of vapor(s). They just combo off as usual, draw their deck and then bounce the leyline. Normal lock pieces prevent them from drawing/tutoring their entire deck by taxing their mana or impeding their ability to draw cards or ability to cast certain key cards. Leyline does nothing to stop them from going off, it just tries to stop the final wincondition which isn't very effective when they have a virtual 50 card hand. In addition, they can choose to sidestep the targeting issue by making goblins, for example if you have double leyline.

You don't board in the leyline against jace. No major legacy deck plays intuition anymore. In general, you never bring it in unless it stops 8+ cards in your opponent's deck; the opportunity cost is just too high.

It is great against burn and smallpox, it is ok against some combo decks and it has some minor incidental utility against various decks if you happen to play it main deck. The uncounterability is largely irrelevant since the decks it is good against don't play counters. The good parts is that it comes down before yor opponent gets to play anything and that it protects other hate from discard. However, this second role is also a bit dubious: If you need leyline to protect the "good" hatecard from discard, why not just run another copy of the good card?

[nedleeds]

Compare leyline to any other hate piece against storm and you'll see how mediocre leyline really is
Countertop - stops their mana and filtering
Chalice of the Void - stops their mana and (or?) filtering
Thalia - stops their mana and slows their filtering
Ethersworn canonist - stops their engine and slows their filtering
Gaddock teeg - stops their engine



... checks to see if in Enchantress thread ... (affirmative)

Thanks for listing 6 of the most brutal cards / combos against Enchantress ever printed, do you want to throw in Chains of Mephistopheles, Nether Void and Spirit of the Labyrinth like people did a few pages back?

What is your point? Leyline is among the best options for Enchantress (G/w/x) right now. Opining and frankly overstating its deficiencies isn't fruitful. Aegis is also good. Rest in Peace can be very good. When these permanents have Shroud they are really good vs. Storm because internet storm has eschewed sweepers in favor of Decay. Are you looking for some card that puts you at 75%+ vs. Storm? Identify a better card or cards in G/w/x. Explain why they are better?

Data (http://www.tcdecks.net/results.php?token=Decks&tname=&nlow=&nhigh=&from=&to=&player=&aname=&dname=&format=Legacy&pos58=on&main=dark+ritual%3B+tendrils+of+agony&nomain=&side=reverent+silence&noside=&strict=on)

[nedleeds]

If you need leyline to protect the "good" hatecard from discard, why not just run another copy of the good card?

Because you are only allowed 8 enchantress effects and if you have one in a 7 card hand it's generally a keep? Again, I question if you've ever played this deck when you say things like this. Enchantress is about ~26 cards that are bad without an Enchantress effect online, ever wonder why no other internet deck harnesses the untapped power of wild growth? or Sterling Grove? or Utopia Sprawl? even Mirri's Guile? Because they aren't good cards without the Enchantress engine, protecting the 1 good card, the engine, is paramount in Enchantress, baiting counterspells on non-engine cards is paramount, you should know this if you have played this deck any amount of time.

[Concordant]

... checks to see if in Enchantress thread ... (affirmative)

How about you check your reading comprehension instead?



Thanks for listing 6 of the most brutal cards / combos against Enchantress ever printed, do you want to throw in Chains of Mephistopheles, Nether Void and Spirit of the Labyrinth like people did a few pages back?

Actually, yes. The question wasn't "what cards helps enchantress?" but "what cards stop storm?" Merely mentioning a card by name does not mean that we should play it. Or do you mean that we should play Reverent Silence, since you keep bringing it up?



What is your point? Leyline is among the best options for Enchantress (G/w/x) right now. Opining and frankly overstating its deficiencies isn't fruitful. Aegis is also good. Rest in Peace can be very good. When these permanents have Shroud they are really good vs. Storm because internet storm has eschewed sweepers in favor of Decay. Are you looking for some card that puts you at 75%+ vs. Storm? Identify a better card or cards in G/w/x. Explain why they are better?

If you had read this thread before posting, you would have seen that your question has already been asked and answered:
"While I have played around with other ideas, I don't have any suggestion that is significantly better than leyline. This is not because leyline is good, but because the options (snip) hits us too."

This debate wasn't whether Rest in Peace or any other particular card is good against storm, but whether Leyline of Sanctity is good against storm. Me and others have already explained (repeatedly) why it is bad compared to the expected powerlevel of sideboard cards. The answers I listed above (which see play in tier1 decks) stop the combo players from generating mana, from sculpting their hand and/or from going off with PiF or Ad Nauseam. Leyline lets them sculpt the perfect hand, generate as much mana as they want, go off with either of their engine spells and instead tries to stop them from casting (half of) their win conditions. This strategy is not very effective since your opponent will gain access to virtually every card in their deck (including Chain of Vapor or Void Snare) while going off.

I'll decline to answer the question about the exact win percentage we need post board since it would derail the discussion even further and is irrelevant to the topic at hand. If you want, we can get back to this after we have settled the leyline issue.



Data (http://www.tcdecks.net/results.php?token=Decks&tname=&nlow=&nhigh=&from=&to=&player=&aname=&dname=&format=Legacy&pos58=on&main=dark+ritual%3B+tendrils+of+agony&nomain=&side=reverent+silence&noside=&strict=on)

I am well aware of what modern storm looks like. Nobody has claimed that leyline is bad because it can be killed by Reverent Silence. We're claiming that it is bad because it does nothing to stop the combo deck from going off while it is in play. But please, don't let the fact that you're attacking a strawman discourage you; your Don Quixote impersonations are mildly amusing.

[Concordant]

Because you are only allowed 8 enchantress effects and if you have one in a 7 card hand it's generally a keep? Again, I question if you've ever played this deck when you say things like this. Enchantress is about ~26 cards that are bad without an Enchantress effect online, ever wonder why no other internet deck harnesses the untapped power of wild growth? or Sterling Grove? or Utopia Sprawl? even Mirri's Guile? Because they aren't good cards without the Enchantress engine, protecting the 1 good card, the engine, is paramount in Enchantress, baiting counterspells on non-engine cards is paramount, you should know this if you have played this deck any amount of time.

Are you saying that any 7 card hand with an enchantress is a keep against fast combo decks? We are not discussing fair decks here, remember? Although our enchantress engine is the most powerful and resilient draw engine in legacy, it takes a few turns to set up and benefit from. This is the general problem with playing against fast combo decks; they can often ignore our engine because they are faster.

The claim was that we need leyline to protect our other hate cards. Although I mostly ageed with that claim, I also pointed out that unless you already run full playsets of whatever hate cards you're trying to protect, you could just as well play more of the actual hate. If you have a 4-of in your sideboard apart from leyline, I'd be interested in hearing about it.

Minor nitpicks: You can (and should) run GSZ which gives you up to 12 enchantress effects. Mirri's Guile is occationally played in other legacy decks but it competes with Sylvan Library and Sensei's Divinig Top. Definitely not a weak card though. Utopia Sprawl is a critical piece in that monogreen Nykthos ramp deck that was popular in modern last year.

[nedleeds]

Are you saying that any 7 card hand with an enchantress is a keep against fast combo decks?

No. I'm saying a 7 on the draw without an enchantress effect or a leyline vs. storm or jund or any deck likely to thoughtseize you is pretty unkeepable. Hands with enchantress effects are generally keepers with good mana on the play or draw game one in the blind.



We are not discussing fair decks here, remember? Although our enchantress engine is the most powerful and resilient draw engine in legacy, it takes a few turns to set up and benefit from.

Hence the fucking leyline being good? It buys you turns, as I said in the first post it doesn't read "You win".



The claim was that we need leyline to protect our other hate cards.


No. It protects your hand period, if that happens to include a tutor, or an aegis, or another leyline, or some other hate card then great. It protects your hand period, while leaving you invulnerable to the most common win condition in the best combo deck, Tendrils. If you have leyline and a turn two EE then that can get you moving towards either winning out right or finding other things to shore up your position, like, other hate cards, or giving your leyline shroud.



Minor nitpicks: You can (and should) run GSZ which gives you up to 12 enchantress effects.

I do.

[btm10]

The claim was that we need leyline to protect our other hate cards. Although I mostly ageed with that claim, I also pointed out that unless you already run full playsets of whatever hate cards you're trying to protect, you could just as well play more of the actual hate. If you have a 4-of in your sideboard apart from leyline, I'd be interested in hearing about it.


This might be the source of the problem. You aren't necessarily looking to protect any single hate card, but rather to have a turn 0 speedbump so you can find your turn 2 speedbump, and so on. You're also forgetting that Leyline is hate. Enchantres also faces a lot of restrictions on what hate works with rather than against the deck, which is basically why Lands is more popular than Enchantress despite being considerably more vulnerable to already widely played hate cards and more expensive to build.

Eidolon of Rhetoric and Rule of Law slow you down just as much as it slows them down, and neither protects itself and Eidolon has a negligible body; I've tested both and nedleeds is right. There's an argument to be made for mixing up the Aegis/Leyline numbers from the 4/2 that we've been seeing, but Leyline gets way, way worse as you become less likely to have it in your opener and is miles better than Aegis against other decks like Burn and Jund where you also want player Shroud . Runed Halo is extremely narrow, Nevermore is expensive, and both require WW and are either just more easily castable Leylines or harder to cast and less useful Sterling Groves. I've tested some truly terrible cards to beat combo; Brain Maggot is fine with Grove on the table and mediocre at best without it, Gaddock Teeg is something they're prepared for and usually forces us to spend a virtual Enchantress effect finding him, and much of the other hate (Pyrostatic Pillar, Spheres, Rule of Law) are too good against us as has already been said. Stony Silence is good, but it doesn't stop them for just casting Rituals and going off like that. Rest in Peace is strong but again not enough on its own. You're ultimately looking to set up Leyline, Confinement, or Aegis + double Grove to lock your opponent out of killing you with Tendrils, so you just want to take as many incremental steps as possible to get there. I'm still running 3 Thoughtseize in my 75 when I play GWb, but even that has its downsides because it dilutes your deck and forces you to play more nongreen, nonenchantment spells.

[jmlima]

On question. Has anyone here played this deck in MTGO?

If so, how do you find in relation to the 25mins match time? Do you struggle for time?

(question is due to all the triggers this deck generates)

Thanks!

[simdude]

On question. Has anyone here played this deck in MTGO?

If so, how do you find in relation to the 25mins match time? Do you struggle for time?

(question is due to all the triggers this deck generates)

Thanks!

Most of my play is on MTGO and I have absolutely no problems with clock time on there. I'll find usually my opponents end up spending more time in a round than I do because they won't auto-yield to draw triggers or elephant grass or solitary or things like that on top of usually (and this is MTGO we're talking about) fiddling around with brainstorms, ponders, and tops.

The biggest tip I'd say is to always auto-yield to the draw trigger of the enchantress effects. Obviously there are going to be times when you want to respond with sac'ing a Sterling Grove or casting Enlightened Tutor but that just requires you plan your turn out a bit ahead of time and make sure to turn the auto-yields off for that turn.

Even Mirri's guile works pretty reasonably. You can set it to always yield and to even select always yes or always no to using it.

[jmlima]

Most of my play is on MTGO and I have absolutely no problems with clock time on there. I'll find usually my opponents end up spending more time in a round than I do because they won't auto-yield to draw triggers or elephant grass or solitary or things like that on top of usually (and this is MTGO we're talking about) fiddling around with brainstorms, ponders, and tops.

The biggest tip I'd say is to always auto-yield to the draw trigger of the enchantress effects. Obviously there are going to be times when you want to respond with sac'ing a Sterling Grove or casting Enlightened Tutor but that just requires you plan your turn out a bit ahead of time and make sure to turn the auto-yields off for that turn.

Even Mirri's guile works pretty reasonably. You can set it to always yield and to even select always yes or always no to using it.

Thanks. Did not realize it could be as fast as that. So a judicious setting of the auto-yields should do the trick.

Since the deck shows no results on the dailies, I'm assuming its not that great in the MTGO meta?

[Lithium]

I can't speak to the meta since I haven't played online in awhile, but i can say that with auto yields on the enchantress draw trigger you have more then enough time. It just boils down to managing Miris guile triggers and planning your turns out. Only once did I lose to time and that was due to opponent using ethersworn canonist and took me forever to find my helm, ended up getting helm playing it only to have time expire as I was activating it with RIP out :rolleyes: may have durdled a bit trying to maximize card draw and all that but most often it's not to time consuming and great place to get the muscle memory for the deck.

[simdude]

Thanks. Did not realize it could be as fast as that. So a judicious setting of the auto-yields should do the trick.

Since the deck shows no results on the dailies, I'm assuming its not that great in the MTGO meta?

Winning a daily event is no different from spiking an FNM. I went 3-1 in a daily just recently (http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/mtgo-standings/legacy-daily-2016-01-10).

But I actually prefer the online metagame to the paper metagame. I don't have actual data for these things so keep that in mind, but from all my experience there are a lot more miracles players online than in paper (commonly thought of as a good matchup). The worst common online matchup is probably ANT. The best "common" paper matchup often missing online is Lands and a relatively tough matchup like Death and Taxes is almost non-existent both due to the much higher prices of Wasteland and Ports.

In general I'd say there are a lot more decks casting brainstorm as I hardly ever see the aforementioned D&T, Elves, Painter, Lands, ect and think that deck construction should reflect this.

[jmlima]

...
But I actually prefer the online metagame to the paper metagame. I don't have actual data for these things so keep that in mind, but from all my experience there are a lot more miracles players online than in paper (commonly thought of as a good matchup). ...

Best source for MTGO meta data (even if a bit skewed by them also listing the odd paper event) is here:

http://www.mtggoldfish.com/metagame/legacy#online

And it confirms everything you said!

[H]

So, it looks like I can make it to FNM this week and I'd like to try out Enchatress, now that I have (pretty much) all the cards (all I seem to be missing from every list I can find is Eidolon of the Blossoms, which some people don't even run).

I am leaning toward a GWb list, because Doomwake seems neat and I can see him swinging some fair matchups my way. I am also looking at 3 maindeck RIP with a Helm, because almost every deck in our local meta is looking to use it's Graveyard in some way, plus I like the"oops, I win" factor as well.

My only concern is that there may be as many as three Storm decks, but I feel like if I make the main to beat the fair decks, then I can load the sideboard with plenty of hate for those combo decks.

Any thoughts on GWb right now?

[cherson]

I think GWb is the best choice at the moment. Doomwake is just great and sideboard plague might be useful as well. Next week I will play a small tournament and will also use enchantress.

All the best and looking forward to your results.

[jmlima]

As you guys can gather (or not!) from the questions above, I'm looking to build this. I'm slightly confused about the reason for the choice of a particular win con. The one's I've seen are:

Emmy
RIP+Helm
Sigil
Luminarch Ascension
and the probably outdated Sacred Mesa

What is the reason why some decks play for example Emmy/RIP+Helm in the main and Sigil on the side? When / why would they bring Sigil in? I've also seen decklists running all three main. On the other hand, I've seen lists without Emmy, or with Emmy on the side?

If anyone can provide some light, it would be appreciated. I made a search on the thread, and other than mentions to Emmy bein a 'win more' there was no clear reasoning I could find for a particular combination of choices.

Many thanks!

[Quasim0ff]

I have a guy locally that plays enchantress only.

He is currently testing two monastery mentors in the sideboard. I've been really impressed with those, as they just win the game. He play RiP+Helm as well as Emrakul in the maindeck as winconditions, with 4x Enchantress, 1x Eidelon of Blossoms as creatures.

[H]

I have a guy locally that plays enchantress only.

He is currently testing two monastery mentors in the sideboard. I've been really impressed with those, as they just win the game. He play RiP+Helm as well as Emrakul in the maindeck as winconditions, with 4x Enchantress, 1x Eidelon of Blossoms as creatures.

That certainly seems like a good plan versus decks that don't play much removal, or take some out since they aren't good versus Enchantress herself.

[Megadeus]

As you guys can gather (or not!) from the questions above, I'm looking to build this. I'm slightly confused about the reason for the choice of a particular win con. The one's I've seen are:

Emmy
RIP+Helm
Sigil
Luminarch Ascension
and the probably outdated Sacred Mesa

What is the reason why some decks play for example Emmy/RIP+Helm in the main and Sigil on the side? When / why would they bring Sigil in? I've also seen decklists running all three main. On the other hand, I've seen lists without Emmy, or with Emmy on the side?

If anyone can provide some light, it would be appreciated. I made a search on the thread, and other than mentions to Emmy bein a 'win more' there was no clear reasoning I could find for a particular combination of choices.

Many thanks!
one strategy against deck is to let everything happen and counter the win condition. Emrakul prevents that as out cannot be countered. RIP helm is good because it can be a quick win somewhat out of nowhere. Also RIP is a powerful hate card that is decent main boardable.

[Koplinchen]

After a couple of tournaments after I picked up my lovely enchantress after many years I changed the list a bit seeking the "perfect" list. I lost many games due to unstability of the deck and it was always very painful. I finaly added Emrakul just because it cant be countered so I can paly fewer win-cons and therefore I can play more "stabilazors" I would really appriciate what do you think.

4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Argothian Enchantress
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Emrakul

4 Enchantress Presence
4 Wild Growth
4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Elephant Grass
3 Mirri's Guile
3 Sterling Grove
3 Rest In Peace
3 Solitari Confinement
1 Blood Moon

1 Helm of Obedience

8 Forest
2 Plains
1 Savannah
1 Taiga
4 Windswept Heath
2 Wooded Foothills
2 Serra's Sanctum

SB:
4 Leyling of Sanctity
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Humility
1 Containment Priest
3 Swords to Plowshares
2 Krosan Grip
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Karmic Justice

As you can see there are only two win-cons which is really very little but it works so far. One Blood Moon is the only really fringe card in the main but I think we really want one because of 12post, bug, jund and so on.

After I beat my friend in the mirror - wonderful games - we were discussing some aspects of the deck. How can we justify not playing 4 GSZ? I think we really really want enchantress on the board - if we could play 8 we would do it - so why not 4 GSZ? I dont understand how can anybody play Eidolon and not 4 GSZ. I still dont get what is the point of Eidolon if we dont play Replenish.

I have also 3 RIP which I like more and more. A good way how to kill ANT G1. (good players dont have Ad Nauseam anymore; that is why Leylines are so good) And 3 Solitary Confinement which I think is the best possible protection - with one enchantress on board its a good timewalk and with two and Mirri's Guile it is usually the game. Shaman is kept in check by RIP.

Mabye I could play one Karakas instead of Plains. But I like the list without anything fancy (except for the Blood Moon) keeping the manacurve as low as possible. I also belive we dont want more that two Sanctum - our draws; spells, lands are clunky enough. And we only need one when we are comboing off to cast Emrakul and at the end of the day we can be perfectly fine without it.

Humility in the board is mainly against Elves (they cant beat it - althought it is slow), same for S+T, 12post. I also belive that miracles cant be very though. If they have CB-TOP online nad three on top it is extreamly hard for us to win hence grips.

Some Enchantress list seem to me to be very greedy. A pile of staff. I hope you can see my focus here. I am not saying it is perfect but I hope it is the way.

Thank you very much for any comments.


Tomáš

[simdude]

I have a guy locally that plays enchantress only.

He is currently testing two monastery mentors in the sideboard. I've been really impressed with those, as they just win the game. He play RiP+Helm as well as Emrakul in the maindeck as winconditions, with 4x Enchantress, 1x Eidelon of Blossoms as creatures.

I'm sure Mentor can perform well and close out games, but despite not having tested it myself I'm not sold on it. It's going to be best in fair matchups but we're already good in fair matchups (made even better by Doomwake Giant) so I don't like the fact it's hogging sideboard slots from cards that can help against less fair decks.



After a couple of tournaments after I picked up my lovely enchantress after many years I changed the list a bit seeking the "perfect" list. I lost many games due to unstability of the deck and it was always very painful. I finaly added Emrakul just because it cant be countered so I can paly fewer win-cons and therefore I can play more "stabilazors" I would really appriciate what do you think.


You list looks perfectly good, if tuned for your specific metagame (as it should be). I can throw out some alternate opinions on certain card choices but that certainly doesn't make those choices wrong at all. Dryad arbor seems to be a personal choice for some but I think it creates too many bad draws and putting a wild growth effect on it is the worst feeling in the world. Blood Moon locks multiple decks straight out of games if you're facing those decks a lot but is dead in a fair number of matches if you're not. I'm not a fan of Blood Moon and Mirri's guile in the same deck because I want to be able to shuffle bad cards away with fetches and play a few extra (as you do too). Also you say you don't see the point of Eidolon if we're not playing Replenish but note how great 4 GSZ is. Having a target which turns GSZ into a cantrip has turned out to be huge in my experience and call pull you out of having to get rid of Confinement. And speaking of Confinement I've tested going down to just 2 and found that's perfectly fine. Again that isn't a hard and fast rule or anything but I think that if you're looking to test more slots it's a place you can try and cut.

From your sideboard I really don't like Karmic Justice. I've tried it over and over and was always basically always disappointed before ultimately cutting it. It ends up acting like a move expensive Sterling Grove that can't be used to fetch something.

[KoomZog]

Hi all!
I will probably be playing Enchantress in an 8 man tournament tomorrow (proxies allowed). I have made a prediction of the metagame as follows, based on what decks I know they play:

Opponent A: 50% Miracles/25% Reanimator/25% Sneak and Show
Opponent B: Elves
Opponent C: 70% Goblins/30% Storm
Opponent D: 50% UR Delver/50% UWR Stoneblade
Opponent E: 50% Maverick/50% Knight of the Reliquary+Retreat to Coralhelm combo
Opponent F: 70% Mono black homebrew/30% BR Minotaur stompy homebrew with trinisphere
Opponent G: unknown

How good/bad is this meta for Enchantress in general?


My attempt at a build:

Enchantment
3x Elephant Grass
4x Enchantress's Presence
1x Exploration
3x Mirri's Guile
1x Oblivion Ring
2x Rest in Peace
2x Solitary Confinement
1x Sphere of Safety
3x Sterling Grove
4x Utopia Sprawl
4x Wild Growth

Sorcery
4x Green Sun's Zenith

Land
1x Bayou
1x Dryad Arbor
7x Forest
1x Karakas
1x Plains
1x Savannah
2x Serra's Sanctum
2x Verdant Catacombs
4x Windswept Heath

Creature
4x Argothian Enchantress
1x Doomwake Giant
1x Eidolon of Blossoms
1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

Artifact
1x Helm of Obedience

Sideboard
1x Aegis of the Gods
1x City of Solitude
1x Engineered Plague
1x Enlightened Tutor
1x Gaddock Teeg
1x Humility
2x Krosan Grip
4x Leyline of Sanctity
1x Replenish
1x Sigil of the Empty Throne
1x Suppression Field


Does this build look reasonable? What would you change?

[Rakadis]

So, with all the murmuring of a new "Eternal" Legacy format without the restricted list, what does it mean for us? Will it make our deck better or worse?

[Jamaican Zombie Legend]

So, with all the murmuring of a new "Eternal" Legacy format without the restricted list, what does it mean for us? Will it make our deck better or worse?

Well, I wouldn't put much stock in that rumor. I don't expect Wizards to ban the Reserve List from Legacy for a multitude of reasons.

That said, I think the deck would take a huge kick in the groin. Banning the Reserve List cards means Enchantress loses Helm, Serra's Sanctum, and Replenish from the arsenal.

I was a late adopter to the Helm/RiP build, but it's a huge boon to the deck. The ability to end games quickly, without (multiple) Enchantress effects is not to be underestimated, and neither is packing mainboard copies of the most powerful gravehate ever printed. And this applies to speed in terms of both turns and time elapsed.

Serra's Sanctum is a great tool when "going off", no matter how you've built the deck. Losing it slows the deck by at least half a turn, on average, if not more. Plus, casting Emrakul is probably out of the question without Sanctum.

Replenish might be a non-bo with the Helm/RiP package, but it's still an insanely bomby card if you aren't running that. I wouldn't ever want to run a traditional Mesa/WoW list without this card, and I suspect a G/W/b list with Doomwake and friends would miss this tech as well.

Basically, the best win conditions are gone as is a huge speed boost in Sanctum. In isolation, the deck looks very poorly positioned, with maybe a G/W/b Constellation build being less crippled.

Looking at the format as a whole is another matter. Aggro gets a big boost from shocklands becoming the format standard and the Solitaire gameplan is very strong against beatdown. Enchantress' worst matchups, stack-based combo decks, are also hit hard by the loss of LED. I don't think this would keep them down entirely, but it might push down their metagame share. Enchantress might be well-positioned (and may also be the only viable prison deck given that Diamond/Monolith/City/Metalworker are on the RL and are lynchpins of other prison strategies).

Again, all of this is academic, since "Unreserved", "Eternal", or whatever is likely not going to happen.

[Claymore1]

I wont really mind, would suck losing Replenish and Sanctum, but I'll probably just work on my mana base a bit, i'm stubborn like that. :tongue:

By the way, I've always wondered but have not gone around to trying it as I do not possess the card. Do you guys think that trying to trim down on some cards, and adding Gitaxian Probe could help? It does replace itself, and sometimes having the info you need wwther you can safely cast enchantress now or wait a turn later would be very nice. Or knowing that you need to aggressively set up your defense now, or if you have a little more time to set up will be good as well.

But yes, it is not an enchantment, but it does replace itself.

[btm10]

Freggle and I tested Probe in late 2013/early 2014. We discuss it here (www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?5302-Deck-Solitaire-(Enchantress)/page175).

[LordOMJ]

My friend Curtis continues to put up results with Enchantress, and as long as he continues not to have an account on The Source I'll continue to post the results on his behalf so you can keep up to date on developments in his list. This time, it's a top 8 at the EE4 Satellite in Newington, CT (98 participants, 7 rounds of swiss). He's recently added some spice to the list, and I'm glad we finally had a reasonably large tournament in the area so he could post a result worth sharing with you folks.

1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Gaddock Teeg
4 Argothian Enchantress
4 Green Sun’s Zenith
4 Enchantress’s Presence
4 Wild Growth
4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Eladamri's Vineyard
4 Elephant Grass
4 Mirri's Guile
1 Exploration
4 Rest in Peace
2 Solitary Confinement
4 Windswept Heath
3 Misty Rainforest
4 Forest
1 Plains
4 Serra's Sanctum
1 Savannah
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Karakas

4 Leyline of Sanctity
4 Sterling Grove
1 Journey to Nowhere
2 Guard Duty
2 Aura of Silence
2 Pithing Needle

[H]

Well, I'm going to try again, last time I meant to build Enchantress for FNM but various real-life things kept me from getting it done. This week I already have the "core" of the deck sleeved up, so I will try something out this week. Looking at a basic GWb list, I want to max out against fair decks, as that is what our locals have been looking like lately. Based off the outdated GW list from Megadeus and adding Black, I come to this:

1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Argothian Enchantress
1 Doomwake Giant

1 Enlightened Tutor

3 Green Sun's Zenith

1 Banishing Light
1 Solitary Confinement
1 Sphere of Safety
1 Exploration
4 Elephant Grass
3 Mirri's Guile
3 Rest in Peace
4 Enchantress's Presence
4 Sterling Grove
4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Wild Growth

1 Helm of Obedience

1 Plains
1 Bayou
1 Savannah
2 Wooded Foothills
3 Serra's Sanctum
4 Windswept Heath
7 Forest

Is one Exploration worth it? I don't own an Eidolon, so that is out for now. Is the one Enlightened Tutor worth it?

Keep in mind, I am a noob with Enchantress, so I'd like to keep the list as sleek as possible, to make mulligan decisions as easy as possible, since I've never played it before. Local meta is heavy on GB/X decks, Shardless, Jund, etc along with URW Blade and some random other things like MUD. Some combo is possible, but I am fine with dealing with that post board.

[LordOMJ]

Well, I'm going to try again, last time I meant to build Enchantress for FNM but various real-life things kept me from getting it done. This week I already have the "core" of the deck sleeved up, so I will try something out this week. Looking at a basic GWb list, I want to max out against fair decks, as that is what our locals have been looking like lately. Based off the outdated GW list from Megadeus and adding Black, I come to this:

1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Argothian Enchantress
1 Doomwake Giant

1 Enlightened Tutor

3 Green Sun's Zenith

1 Banishing Light
1 Solitary Confinement
1 Sphere of Safety
1 Exploration
4 Elephant Grass
3 Mirri's Guile
3 Rest in Peace
4 Enchantress's Presence
4 Sterling Grove
4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Wild Growth

1 Helm of Obedience

1 Plains
1 Bayou
1 Savannah
2 Wooded Foothills
3 Serra's Sanctum
4 Windswept Heath
7 Forest

Is one Exploration worth it? I don't own an Eidolon, so that is out for now. Is the one Enlightened Tutor worth it?

Keep in mind, I am a noob with Enchantress, so I'd like to keep the list as sleek as possible, to make mulligan decisions as easy as possible, since I've never played it before. Local meta is heavy on GB/X decks, Shardless, Jund, etc along with URW Blade and some random other things like MUD. Some combo is possible, but I am fine with dealing with that post board.

I normally wouldn't support 4 Sterling Grove, but it makes a lot of sense if your meta is heavy on GBx decks. IMO, there is no reason to run fewer than 4 GSZ. You're essentially saying that you're OK with fewer enchantress effects, and I think that's wrong. Tutor seems fine since you're running it's a lot of singletons. I think that actually moves away from the sleekness you're looking for the deck to achieve, but I'm biased by Curtis's list. Exploration is very good when you have your engine going and rarely before. A one-of allows you explosive plays without having too many enchantments that don't impact the board in the early game, which is exactly where I think the deck wants to be. If you have more green fetch lands, I'd run them to support your splash more effectively and synergize with guile.

[H]

I normally wouldn't support 4 Sterling Grove, but it makes a lot of sense if your meta is heavy on GBx decks. IMO, there is no reason to run fewer than 4 GSZ. You're essentially saying that you're OK with fewer enchantress effects, and I think that's wrong. Tutor seems fine since you're running it's a lot of singletons. I think that actually moves away from the sleekness you're looking for the deck to achieve, but I'm biased by Curtis's list. Exploration is very good when you have your engine going and rarely before. A one-of allows you explosive plays without having too many enchantments that don't impact the board in the early game, which is exactly where I think the deck wants to be. If you have more green fetch lands, I'd run them to support your splash more effectively and synergize with guile.

Well, as I said, I am definitely a noob, having never played the deck before. While the list you shared certainly seems good, I think it is more the more advanced Enchantress player, which I am certainly not. 4 GSZ seems more correct and I wasn't too sold on Tutor, except it does make winning with Helm a bit more probable (while still having other utility). I don't think I am fully against removing it for a GSZ.

How many fetches do you think is right for a splash? 7? There is only 1 Black card and it does cost 5.

[LordOMJ]

Well, as I said, I am definitely a noob, having never played the deck before. While the list you shared certainly seems good, I think it is more the more advanced Enchantress player, which I am certainly not. 4 GSZ seems more correct and I wasn't too sold on Tutor, except it does make winning with Helm a bit more probable (while still having other utility). I don't think I am fully against removing it for a GSZ.

How many fetches do you think is right for a splash? 7? There is only 1 Black card and it does cost 5.

Didn't mean to come off as critical - trying to fit in feedback during my rushed lunch break. The deck is definitely a blast to play and watch, so I hope you enjoy it. I actually missed the Wooded Foothills in your list, so 1 or 2 more might be nice. I'd actually say that adding in Dryad Arbor would be really helpful if there are lots of GBx lists in your meta. Cracking a fetch to protect your Argothian Enchantresses from a Liliana edict is a useful line to keep in mind.

[H]

Didn't mean to come off as critical - trying to fit in feedback during my rushed lunch break. The deck is definitely a blast to play and watch, so I hope you enjoy it. I actually missed the Wooded Foothills in your list, so 1 or 2 more might be nice. I'd actually say that adding in Dryad Arbor would be really helpful if there are lots of GBx lists in your meta. Cracking a fetch to protect your Argothian Enchantresses from a Liliana edict is a useful line to keep in mind.

It's all good. What worries me about Arbor is that it means yet another Basic Forest less, which opens me to more mulligans and turns on their removal. While it would be nice to have protection from Lili, I don't know that it's worth the risk.

I'm not sure really, I don't want to fall too far into the "optimize for a certain meta" since I wasn't there last week and some people may have changed decks too.

[simdude]

My friend Curtis continues to put up results with Enchantress, and as long as he continues not to have an account on The Source I'll continue to post the results on his behalf so you can keep up to date on developments in his list. This time, it's a top 8 at the EE4 Satellite in Newington, CT (98 participants, 7 rounds of swiss). He's recently added some spice to the list, and I'm glad we finally had a reasonably large tournament in the area so he could post a result worth sharing with you folks.

Thanks for updating us. Your friend seems like a very strong player to keep putting up these results.


In other new I did want to pop in and say how hyped I am because I'm moving into day two of SCG Philly at 7-2. I also know that another player is 7-2 on Enchantress as well. There could even be a third but I didn't see how his last round went.

[cherson]

Congrats. Hope u get a spot on cam today, didn't see any enchantress yesterday. Good luck

[caprino]

Thanks for updating us. Your friend seems like a very strong player to keep putting up these results.


In other new I did want to pop in and say how hyped I am because I'm moving into day two of SCG Philly at 7-2. I also know that another player is 7-2 on Enchantress as well. There could even be a third but I didn't see how his last round went.

deck list?

[simdude]

deck list?

If you didn't see the day 2 metagame breakdown on SCG, there were in fact 3 enchantress players in day 2. We ended up talking quite a bit and we all had very different decks.

I eventually finished 46th after crashing a bit today (started 2-1, ended 2-4). I don't think I'll have the energy or time to do a full report but I think I will make a post later about all 15 rounds, my brief thoughts about the matchups, and maybe some more hindsight analysis for card choices. I'm definitely still too emotionally wrapped up in it to go deep now though.


Enchantment (29)
1x Banishing Light
4x Elephant Grass
4x Enchantress's Presence
1x Exploration
3x Mirri's Guile
2x Rest in Peace
2x Solitary Confinement
1x Sphere of Safety
2x Sterling Grove
4x Utopia Sprawl
4x Wild Growth
1x Worship

Sorcery (4)
4x Green Sun's Zenith

Land (19)
1x Bayou
6x Forest
1x Karakas
1x Plains
1x Savannah
3x Serra's Sanctum
4x Windswept Heath
1x Wooded Foothills
1x Verdant Catacombs

Creature (7)
4x Argothian Enchantress
1x Doomwake Giant
1x Eidolon of Blossoms
1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

Artifact (1)
1x Helm of Obedience

Sideboard (15)
1x Aegis of the Gods
1x Choke
1x Gaddock Teeg
1x Dread of Night
3x Leyline of Sanctity
1x Rest in Peace
2x Sterling Grove
2x Stony Silence
3x Thoughtseize

Edit: Incorrectly had Kruphix's Insight listed in my sideboard previously instead of Dread of Night which is a change I made the day-of.

[korstructure]

Congratulations, simdude. I like your build! Sounds like a draining day - hope to get more of your insights soon.

As for the position of Enchantress right now - what do we think?

What pushed Enchantress out of the metagame or held in in fringe territory? And has that changed somehow?




If you didn't see the day 2 metagame breakdown on SCG, there were in fact 3 enchantress players in day 2. We ended up talking quite a bit and we all had very different decks.

I eventually finished 46th after crashing a bit today (started 2-1, ended 2-4). I don't think I'll have the energy or time to do a full report but I think I will make a post later about all 15 rounds, my brief thoughts about the matchups, and maybe some more hindsight analysis for card choices. I'm definitely still too emotionally wrapped up in it to go deep now though.

[VsTheWorld]

As for the position of Enchantress right now - what do we think?

What pushed Enchantress out of the metagame or held in in fringe territory? And has that changed somehow?

It's always been fringe just due to the fact that in a format with most of the strongest cards ever printed, you're playing a bunch of fundamentally fair green permanents at sorcery speed, you have little card selection without your engine online, and you have to fill your deck with a bunch of otherwise dead draws like 8 Wild Growth effects. That will never change. The more fair and creature based the format is though, the better positioned the deck is.

[Claymore1]

I was looking at 2 cards earlier, one is a bit more expensive but it does shut off cards like Chalice and Trinispheres.
Stony Silence and Titania's Song, song is one turn slower than silence (with turn 1 growth for song), but it does shut off other stuff that silence doesn't.
Could the song be good, or it's silence all the way?

[cherson]

Song can't be targeted by decay which is great as well. Maybe we have to consider it

[Megadeus]

In what matchup are you bringing in song and worried about decay? Storm? In that case I'd rather have the 2 drop. I don't hate the card if you're worried about MUD, but it seems niche.

[Jankalicious]

I was also playing in the Open Event this past weekend and chatted with Simdude and another enchantress player a bit. It was nice to meet you guys there. It was pretty awesome to chat more in person about enchantress and see 3 different builds make the 64. I started messing with enchantress a little over a month ago. I will say that I am super excited to work further on the deck and try out more cards in the future. I will do a little tournament report when I get the opportunity sometime over the next couple days. I'll leave you guys with a decklist for now.

Oath Enchantress
by James Kandziolka

4 Serra's Sanctum
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Savannah
1 Plains
4 Windswept Heath
2 Wooded Foothills
7 Forest
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Oath of Nissa
4 Wild Growth
4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Elephant Grass
4 Mirri's Guile
2 Exploration
4 Argothian Enchantress
4 Enchantress's Presence
4 Solitary Confinement
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger

Sideboard:
4 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Choke
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Mindbreak Trap
1 Banishing Light
3 Swords to Plowshares
3 Krosan Grip

[chemicalstylez]

I always play mirris guile of library. I haven't played legacy in quite some time, but looking at the current meta enchantress should be cleaning up right now. I don't see a single deck that can give it fits besides some chalices main deck in eldrazi but those are easily dealt with after sideboard. Makes me want to get the deck back together again.

[H]

Not that my results are particularly interesting, but I finally got to jam this at Friday's FNM (13 players). I ended up 3-0-1 (took an intentional draw into top 4, because it was 11 pm and I was tired).

1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Argothian Enchantress
1 Doomwake Giant

1 Enlightened Tutor

4 Green Sun's Zenith

1 Banishing Light
1 Solitary Confinement
1 Sphere of Safety
4 Elephant Grass
3 Mirri's Guile
3 Rest in Peace
4 Enchantress's Presence
4 Sterling Grove
4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Wild Growth

1 Helm of Obedience

1 Plains
1 Bayou
1 Savannah
2 Wooded Foothills
3 Serra's Sanctum
4 Windswept Heath
7 Forest

Round 1, UWR 'Blade.

New kid, borrowing the deck. I honestly tell him I have no idea if this is a good matchup for him. I guess it probably isn't.

Game 1 GSZ for an Enchantress, he has Stoneforge for Batterskull. I play an Elephant Grass (nice Germ). My life total is never in any real danger and I bait out a Force of Will with something (I don't remember) then play RiP and Helm.

Game 2, he has a Meddling Mage and names Argothian Enchantress (probably a bad idea, but I actually drew 2 so maybe not?) and I take some hits off a Clique and the Mage. I get other Encantress effects in the mean time and soon enough have Solitary with Grove and there is really not much he can do. I draw Sigil of the Empty Throne and he scoops.

Round 2, Elves. Game 1 I have a couple Elephant Grass, into a turn 3 Doomwake and he does what a Doomwake does. Game 2 I mull to a somewhat awkward hand that doesn't have White mana except Serra's Sanctum and all I draw are White cards. This makes me a turn or so too slow and I get Hoofed. Game 3 my hand is a little slow, but I slow him down with some StPs then land Doomwake. He clears out the board pretty well but eventually gets Rec Saged. At this point though I have 5 Enchatress effects, which draw me most of my deck but no win conditions and time gets called while I sit behind a Sphere of Safety and 8 Enchantments. I finally have Emmy in my hand though but have to pass. He, of course, Toughtseizes me, takes Emmy. He is at 4 though and so I play a Doomwake and he realizes that with 2 Enchatments in my hand (both Seterling Groves) he can't win and scoops.

Round 3, MonoBlack "aggro" (with Helm/Leyline).

Game 1 Elephant Grass is randomly hilarious and locks him out, even though he Hymned me and took my 2nd and 3rd lands. Lili comes down though and fun time is over. I play out Enchantresses as cantrips, just to get her to tick down. Finally draw into RiP and Helm and win.

Game 2: Super awkward. I draw nothing but things that don't really do anything (like all three RiP) and I end up getting beat down by Deathrites (yeah, combat damage). I find out that he is running Helm too, I guess those RiPs were real dicey.

Game 3: I had boarded in my Leylines of Sancity and he shows me after the game that 2/3rds of his hand is targeted discard. I RiP and pass because I don't think he can actually remove it to Helm me. He can't and I helm him next turn.

Round 4 I just take the ID to top 4.

Deck felt pretty good, I think I'd want the Exploration though, I see how it can really help. Probably won't play it again next week to keep the meta on it's toes, but I will definitely be playing this again. I messed up a couple things, missed my Enchatress triggers once (had out Solitary so it could have been real bad, but I had a second Enchantment I could play) but overall I felt reasonably comfortable.

[Jankalicious]

I was also playing in the Open Event this past weekend and chatted with Simdude and another enchantress player a bit. It was nice to meet you guys there. It was pretty awesome to chat more in person about enchantress and see 3 different builds make the 64. I started messing with enchantress a little over a month ago. I will say that I am super excited to work further on the deck and try out more cards in the future. I will do a little tournament report when I get the opportunity sometime over the next couple days. I'll leave you guys with a decklist for now.

Oath Enchantress
by James Kandziolka

4 Serra's Sanctum
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Savannah
1 Plains
4 Windswept Heath
2 Wooded Foothills
7 Forest
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Oath of Nissa
4 Wild Growth
4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Elephant Grass
4 Mirri's Guile
2 Exploration
4 Argothian Enchantress
4 Enchantress's Presence
4 Solitary Confinement
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger

Sideboard:
4 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Choke
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Mindbreak Trap
1 Banishing Light
3 Swords to Plowshares
3 Krosan Grip

I started messing with Enchantress a little over a month ago and was looking to just gain a good amount of experience through this tournament. Here is my tournament report to go along with the deck list posted above from the Star City Open in Philly. I can’t remember everything clearly, but I will do my best.

Rd 1. - Sneak and Show
This was goes to a close game 3. I sided in Gaddock Teeg which ended up not being relevant. Possibly, shutting off a casting of Sneak Attack. The game goes the distance with my engine going and Elephant Grass out. He Show and Tells Sneak Attack into play. Elephant Grass keeps him off hasting someone into play and I close out the game next turn with Emrakul.
1-0

Rd 2. - Infect
I faced Tom Ross this round starting game 1 with a mulligan to 5. He gets the first one. Game two goes the distance with Swords being extremely crucial giving that extra turn to set up a second draw piece to confinement lock. Game 3 he is on the play and wins on turn 3 with me tapped out. It might not be needed, but I am curious as to what those of you think about the matchup. Is infect a bad matchup for Enchantress?
1-1

Rd 3. – MUD Ligthning Greaves/Blightsteel Colossus
Game 1 he wins turn 2. Game 2 he wins turn 3. Is this a matchup where we bring Mindbreak Trap in? I am not sure because it seemed relevant in those two games, but I can see Mindbreak Trap being a dud at times in the matchup.
1-2

Rd 4. – W/U/B Control
Game 1 he Cabal Therapy’s both of my Enchantress’s Presence and it is an uphill battle from the there. Game 2 Leyline’s come in and keep my hand protected. He doesn’t have counters for my enchantress effects and scoops after a couple turns.
Game 3 Clock is ticking down and we go to turns. Extra turn 2 I cast Ulamog. Extra turn 3 he casts a chump blocker. Extra turn 4 I cast Emrakul getting the 5th turn and preventing a draw from occurring. A thumbs up moment for Emrakul.
2-2

Rd 5. – Burn
Burn is pretty much an auto win with this deck. I win both games with game 2 having my opponent dying to his own Sulfuric Vortex while being held back by Ensnaring Bridge.
3-2

Rd 6. – Death and Taxes
Game 1 I get the engine online with very little disruption.
Game 2 My opponent develops the board and gets multiple Flickerwhisps to break through.
Game 3 I draw multiple Swords to Plowshares and am able to close out the game easier without the disruption of Ethersworn Canonists and Thalia’s and the flying Thalia (forgot the name). Death and Taxes seems like a favorable matchup.
4-2

Rd 7. – Loam Dark Depths Deck
Game 1 Elephant Grass buys enough time to win since his Legendary creature can not attack.
Game 2 He gets a surprise Crop Rotation end of turn for the legendary Dark Depths creature to come into play destroying all his lands and Lotus Petals. I Swords to Plowshares the creature and close out the game a couple turns later.
5-2

Rd 8. – Shardless Bug
Game 1 I close out getting the engine online with very little disruption.
Game 2 He discard a couple key pieces. And closes out from there.
Game 3 I hit Leyline of Sanctity in my opener and get the engine going into time. I cast Ulamog on turn 1 of extra turns getting rid of blockers then casting Emrakul on turn 3 of extra turns to finish it out.
6-2

Rd 9. – Painter Servant
Game 1 He gets the combo online and hits my Emrakul shuffling everything back in. I just make sure I draw enough to always discard Emrakul at the end of my turn to always have him in deck thus shutting off their win condition. I eventually close out game 1.
Game 2 He Tormod’s Crypt on the stack removes my graveyard in response to an Emrakul trigger and wins.
Game 3 I open with a Leyline of Sanctity in hand and get the engine going with enough draw and Solitary confinements and other Leyline of Sanctity’s.
7-2

Day 2
Rd 10. – BUG
Game 1 I crush getting the engine online with little disruption other than a couple of dazes.
Game 2 He Surgical Extractions my Solitary Confinement out of graveyard and hits one in my hand. One of the trickiest moments I have noticed is trying to keep a Solitary Confinement from hitting the yard because this seems like the best way for our opponents to deal with this big problem piece for them. The game goes a little further and he wins.
Game 3 Golgari Charm clears my Argothian Enchantresses. His Dark Confidants get a ton of card advantage. He closes out the game.
7-3

Rd 11. – Blue/Red Aggro Burn
We get to a close game 3 where I could have played a solitary Confinement with 1 Enchantress effect on board and got punished for not doing it. His Monastery Swiftspear and Stormchaser Mage get in for tons of damage when he casts Lightning Bolt, Lightning Bolt, Daze targeting his Lightning Bolt, then Force of Willing his Daze to get in for 16.
7-4

Rd 12. – Lands Dark Depths
We go to a Game 3. I expected Chalice of the Void in game 2 and never saw it, so I hedged down on my Krosan Grips. He still never saw a Chalice of the Void. I kept a questionable hand on the play here. Forest, Sprawl, 2 Argothian Enchantress, 2 Oath of Nissa, Exploration. My thought was if I draw a land then Enchantress Oath and go nuts from there. If I don’t then my Oath of Nissa could hit another needed land. I go for it. I don’t hit a land through my Oath and he Rishadan Port locks me.
7-5

Rd 13. – Death and Taxes
These games were not even close. I am convinced that Death and Taxes is another one of the matchups we love to face. Swords were insane again.
8-5

Rd 14. – EPIC Storm
Game 1 he goes off quick and I cannot get a piece out.
Game 2 I mulligan to 4. My hand of 6 was 4 lands, Leyline of Sanctity, and Wild Growth. I sent it back. If the Growth had been a Minbreak trap I think I keep. 5 had no lands. Pretty much lost to the mull here. He goes off in a couple turns.
8-6

Rd 15. – Lands Dark Depths
My opponent is playing more of a control build.
Game 1 he gets Crucible of Worlds online with Ghost Quarter as I try to get an engine going. I eventually pitch an Emrakul to keep his Ghost Quarter from ending my land base by shuffling back in my Forests. I eventually close out the game.
Game 2 he gets a Crop Rotation finish end of turn without me having an Elephant Grass or solitary Confinement online.
Game 3 he plays more control trying to go Tabernacle route and gives me inevitability. No Chalice of the Voids in this game. Chalice is the one card that I think crushes our deck if we don’t get rid of it quick. I will definitely be looking into more ways to deal with Chalice that has crossover in other mathcups.
9-6

All together I had a blast learning more about the deck this past weekend despite the bad day 2 finish. I am locked on to this deck as my Legacy deck now.

[cherson]

Great report, thumbs up. Day 2 vs bug, did u board swords and Leylines? In my opinion we have a good chance against them

[Megadeus]

Congrats on the day 2. I have issues with your list, but it's all you man. 4 Solitary is far too many imo though. 2 at most is what I ran, though I had sterling groves to help me find them too. I think against TES, on a mull to 6 with a leyline and ramp piece in hand with a scry available, I keep that hand personally. I know it sounds like I am playing the result, but you have a piece that prevents you from dying, a T1 growth, and basically 2 shots at drawing something relevant by turn 2. Idk. It seems like a keep to me. I can't imagine why you need mindbreak trap and leyline. They both functionally do the same thing, shutting off your opponents who plan on killing you on T1 (Storm/Belcher). Again though, congrats on Day 2.

[simdude]

I ended up writing more than I expected but I wanted to keep it away from specific games and focus on card choices and matchups but I can't help myself sometimes. I just like to talk.

Round 1 - Sneak and Show (2-0)

I missed having 2nd O-ring around but this was the matchup of the tournament where Thoughtseize got to shine. I feel better now that we play more ways to interact. But S&S is still generally a matchup I'd prefer to avoid when possible though.

Round 2 - RUG Delver (2-1)

Delver matchups are mostly just about mana. If you get to the point where daze and spell pierce are bad then you've likely won but be sure to play around a top-decked bolt and don't be afraid to run Solitary out into an unstable engine (1 or two enchantresses). I had plenty of anti-aggro in my list this weekend to help me get through this matchup and create enough "must-counter" spells.

Round 3 - Miracles (2-1)

I think I'm slightly more bearish on the miracles matchup than most Enchantress players. I think the matchups is much closer to 50/50 where the tie-breaker is player skill and experience in the matchup. There is so much to talk about in this matchup. First, landing a Presence is much more important than landing an Argothian. That might be a bit obvious but it's a huge deal since you can bait out a lot with Argothian. Secondly Green Sun's Zenith does incredibly amounts of work allowing you to play around Counterbalance by overpaying and allow you to grab Gaddock Teeg when you opponent was just expecting Argothian. Be careful about playing Rest in Peace out in this matchup because it only shuts off Snapcasters from them but shuts off our ability to shuffle our Graveyard back in by discarding Emrakul if we happened to be low on cards in our deck which is a legitimate concern in this crazy matchup.

Round 4 - Nic Fit (2-1)

My opponent was the Nic Shift version where he played Burning Wish and Valakut. I had never played this version of the deck before and got double slaughter game'd in game 2 but brought in leylines for game 3 and had no problem after that. Funny enough I still could've won game 2 with a Doomwake Giant but he made a Huntmaster of the Fells to create perpetual blockers and I couldn't shrink it without drawing my library.

Round 5 - Miracles (2-1)

More of the same story with Miracles. Stony Silence does a lot in this matchup as well.

Round 6 - RG Lands (2-0)

I think this is one of the best Tier 1 matchups Enchantress has, especially when you run main deck Rest in Peace. The cards which are good are obvious (Elephant Grass, Karakas) and pre-board most opponents have very few ways to interact. Post board can get a bit more interesting but once we're running 4x Sterling Grove I feel fine in the matchup.

Round 7 - BUG Landstill (0-2)

I was very happy to see someone else at 6-0 on their pet deck and we had a bit of a mini celebration over us making it this far on pet decks but this is a terrible matchup. Innocent blood, Lilliana, Snapcaster, and Abrupt Decay made sure both games ended very very quickly. Sterling Grove and Leylines are good here but even a medium hand from them will fight through both.

Round 8 - Eldrazi (1-2)

This is the matchups I'm most disapointed to talk about. I tried to jam a BUNCH of games online this week leading up to the event but I never matched against a single Eldrazi deck in leagues or free-play rooms. As a result I didn't know the matchup well and definitely sideboarded wrong. I think that I want the Leylines and Aegis to stop Thoughtseer but Endbringer also turned out to be a big problem in my games and leylines will stop that more or less. I'm also unsure how good Thoughtseize would be in the matchup. Probably bad. I brought in Stony Silence expecting Ratchet Bomb from them but I don't think my opponent brought them in. This is still probably a good matchup for us

Round 9 - Delver (2-1)

My memory of this match is a bit fuzzy. I can't remember if my opponent was on 4c or Grixis Delver because those decks look so similar but all of the Delver matchups play pretty similar where we just try to establish a mana advantage and then run the engine out.


Day 2

Round 10 - Imperial Taxes (2-1)

I feel like I shouldn't talk about D&T without talking about Elves. I mentally group these two decks together a lot. They're both difficult for us to beat in their own ways, especially postboard, but my thinking was that winning game 1 against D&T is easier than winning against Elves so I'll try to secure that matchup hence I decided to put Dread of Night into the sideboard. Dread ended up not doing all that much versus Imperial Taxes and the key cards ended up being Sterling Grove to tutor up Stony Silence and Banishing Light. With Banishing Light removing an Ethersworn Canonist I was able to go off with Doomwake Giant and remove Magus of the Moon and Phyrexian Revoker and win. I might note that I generally bring in Thoughtseize in this matchup. I'm not sure how I feel about that yet but I'm mostly just trying to keep the opponent of huge blowout effects like Cataclysm or a game winning Flickerwisp. I'd have to play the matchup a lot more but sadly the deck just doesn't exist online where I do most of my testing.


Round 11 - Grixis Pyromancer (1-2)

Games 2 and 3 I kept very very good hands but neither had a Leyline in them which led to my hand getting absolutely shredded by Gitaxian Probes and Cabal Therapies. I don't know how you send back a hand like I had in game 2 (Enchantresses, Wild Growth, RIP, Elephant Grass, and sufficient lands to cast it all) on the hope of finding a leyline. I suspect me keeping is the correct play and just hope he didn't draw Therapy.

Round 12 - Jund Lands (2-0)

This was a list that some of the SCG grinders were on. It played Dark Confidant and main deck Abrupt Decay. Although discard effects and Decay are annoying to Enchantress having main deck RIP and 4x Elephant Grass was still just too much and I took the games fairly easily.

Round 13 - Storm (1-2)

I know that a big part of my success this weekend was due to the fact that Storm was very poorly positioned in a room which was overflowing with Chalice of the Void so I was surprised and upset to run into storm here. I bring in most of my sideboard for this matchup but it still wasn't enough. Despite constantly reminding myself to be aggressive in mulligans in this matchup I still probably wasn't aggresive enough in game 2 and paid for it when he went off turn 2 and my game 3 hand of 6 was pretty medium.

Round 14 - Miracles (0-2)

I talked about Miracles before and these games just shows how easily the match can swing back towards them. No it didn't help that I mulliganed to 4 in game 2 but my opponent knew how to play the matchup and executed everything very well.

Round 15 - Hexdepth Lands (1-2)

I shouldn't obsess about it but I made my big misplay in the final game of the final round and boy did that knock the wind out of me. Maybe I could say I was tired, but I think I was just excited and emotional. The short version is that I was holding back a Marit Lage with Elephant Grass and managed to just BARELY Mirri's Guile into a Karakas. In my excitement over how well I managed to get to that point I immediately tapped it to bounce his token. My opponent end-step's a crop rotation and makes another Marit Lage which I didn't see coming. They draw for turn and reveal they drew the abrupt decay they needed to kill my elephant grass. I'm not certain this alone kept me out of top 32, I think I might have placed #33 with this win but it will definitely be my misplay story I re-tell for a long time.



Some general notes. I felt like I was winning a lot of game ones even when I would go on to lose the set. Of my losses I took the game one from Eldrazi, Grixis Delver, Storm, and Hexdepths. This gives me a bunch of confidence in the maindeck but indicates that maybe I need to work on my sideboard and sideboarding decisions.

Most of my mulligans, of which there were plenty because I was trying to be aggressive in what I considered a keep, were because I didn't have enough lands for the hand to be a keep. I might have to relent and actually go back to 20 lands and see if that feels slightly more stable. Unsure if I would want 7th Forest or a 7th fetch and what card I'd possibly cut for it. Probably the Worship slot.

I didn't draw thoughtseize when I needed so it's hard to evaluate but my previous experience with the card and it's usefulness in round 1 tilts me towards playing the card.

[VsTheWorld]

Would there be any interest in gameplay videos/replay commentary? I just bought into Magic Online with Enchantress so I'll be playing around with a bunch of different versions in leagues the next few weeks. 4-1'd the first one with something very close to the 4 RiP/4 Eladamri's Vineyard list a from a few posts back, but I'll be trying out the black splash next.

[Claymore1]

Great job to you guys who went to the event, and piloted Enchantress. I went there back then for eternal weekend and piloted Enchantress but did poorly with the field so heavy on Omnitell, back when Dig Through Time was not banned. Thank you all or sharing your experience, it was a great read.

[cherson]

Would there be any interest in gameplay videos/replay commentary? I just bought into Magic Online with Enchantress so I'll be playing around with a bunch of different versions in leagues the next few weeks. 4-1'd the first one with something very close to the 4 RiP/4 Eladamri's Vineyard list a from a few posts back, but I'll be trying out the black splash next.
Yes of course. I also play the black splash and always looking for videos.

Did anybody consider decay in the sb?

[Jankalicious]

Congrats on the day 2. I have issues with your list, but it's all you man. 4 Solitary is far too many imo though. 2 at most is what I ran, though I had sterling groves to help me find them too. I think against TES, on a mull to 6 with a leyline and ramp piece in hand with a scry available, I keep that hand personally. I know it sounds like I am playing the result, but you have a piece that prevents you from dying, a T1 growth, and basically 2 shots at drawing something relevant by turn 2. Idk. It seems like a keep to me. I can't imagine why you need mindbreak trap and leyline. They both functionally do the same thing, shutting off your opponents who plan on killing you on T1 (Storm/Belcher). Again though, congrats on Day 2.

Thanks for the feedback. I am definitely interested in your thoughts to understand enchantress better. I had 4 solitary because I always felt like it was the key card I always wanted to draw. I didn't get a chance to mess with sterling grove prior to this event. If you don't mind speaking freely about the issues with my list, I would appreciate hearing your thoughts. I am open minded and won't respond defensively to others thoughts.

[Jankalicious]

Great report, thumbs up. Day 2 vs bug, did u board swords and Leylines? In my opinion we have a good chance against them

I did board those in. This version of bug felt more counter heavy than discard heavy.

[Nobe72]

Rd 3. – MUD Ligthning Greaves/Blightsteel Colossus
Game 1 he wins turn 2. Game 2 he wins turn 3. Is this a matchup where we bring Mindbreak Trap in? I am not sure because it seemed relevant in those two games, but I can see Mindbreak Trap being a dud at times in the match up.
1-2

Hey, I'm your MUD opponent! (I was the blonde guy with the grey/brown sweatshirt). You definitely wouldn't normally bring in mind break trap against me, as normally I am a much slower chalice/trinisphere deck that is artifact based around kuldotha forgemaster and metal worker. I just happened to draw the nuts against you both games in a row haha. Blightsteel and staff of domination are both singleton tutor targets for forge master, just got lucky.

[lordofthepit]

simdude, congrats on the finish.

The current decks, including the one you ran most recently to a day 2 finish, seem a bit soft to a Chalice on 1. Normally, I wouldn't be concerned about that, but the increased prevalence of Eldrazi is a significant reason I would consider sleeving up a prison-style deck, and the presence of so many Chalices is also a big factor in suppressing the unfavorable combo matchups. Is that card as crippling as it seems to mean? If so, are there any reasonable ways to combat it?

[Freggle]

It's fun to see all the different versions of Enchantress floating out there these last few months. Having just gotten married this past weekend I hope to have a bit more free time to test a lost for the SCG event coming up in Orlando. Still seems like there is not a concensus on wincons or Sterling. I'm not exactly sure where the meta is today, but I intend to test a WG and possibly a WGx list with Sterling to see if my opinions have changed.

Has anyone really worked with Kruphix's Insight, Commune With the Gods, or the new Green ponder yet?

[bwood]

I like the idea of using Sterling Grove with Doomwake Giant. A 4/6 beater with shroud is usually pretty good. Also, the ability to tutor for him in matchups like Elves is pretty key.

[H]

I like the idea of using Sterling Grove with Doomwake Giant. A 4/6 beater with shroud is usually pretty good. Also, the ability to tutor for him in matchups like Elves is pretty key.

Granted, I only played in one small FNM with this deck, but my experience was that Doomwake was really good against Elves and Sterling Grove let me protect him in game 1 and find him in game 3.

I guess I understand why some builds might not want 4 Groves, but it seemed really good to me.

[simdude]

simdude, congrats on the finish.

The current decks, including the one you ran most recently to a day 2 finish, seem a bit soft to a Chalice on 1. Normally, I wouldn't be concerned about that, but the increased prevalence of Eldrazi is a significant reason I would consider sleeving up a prison-style deck, and the presence of so many Chalices is also a big factor in suppressing the unfavorable combo matchups. Is that card as crippling as it seems to mean? If so, are there any reasonable ways to combat it?


Thanks I appreciate it.

I think that Chalice on 1 on their turn 1 is only really scary when they're on the play or when we don't have an accelerating piece on our turn one. Because we can run our enchantments into the chalice and still get draw triggers we are some-what fine when they get countered. I also think that means we have to recognize that we shouldn't lean on Grass alone but rather the combined effect of Solitary, Sphere, Worship, and Moat which are all viable and make Chalice on 1 look silly. Further Elephant Grass is the most vulnerable protection piece to their Ratchet Bombs and we need to be able to play around that. And even more on top of all of that, in my lone data point match I found my opponent had no problem paying for a Reality Smasher to crash in and that a 4 turn clock instead of a 2/3 turn one was just fine for them. But I need to grind games against this matchup. I just don't know it well enough to do anything other than theory-craft.



It's fun to see all the different versions of Enchantress floating out there these last few months. Having just gotten married this past weekend I hope to have a bit more free time to test a lost for the SCG event coming up in Orlando. Still seems like there is not a concensus on wincons or Sterling. I'm not exactly sure where the meta is today, but I intend to test a WG and possibly a WGx list with Sterling to see if my opinions have changed.

Has anyone really worked with Kruphix's Insight, Commune With the Gods, or the new Green ponder yet?


First off, congrats! I tested with Kruphix's Insight for months but cut it from my sideboard the day of the event for Dread of Night because in all my testing leading up to the event I felt like I had too many cards to bring in for "grindy" matchups like Shardless and Miracles and not enough cards that I wanted to remove from those matchups. I like the card a lot and would play it if I had the room while sideboarding.

Jankalicious had 4x Oath of Nissa in his maindeck so he's the expert. I still don't like the card enough because it can't grab the main thing we want (enchantments) but it makes a lot more sense when you're trying to reliably hit Sanctums to cast huge Eldrazi titans as win conditions. I'd also love to one day see the "cares about enchantments" planeswalker who could theoretically give a boost in value to Oath.

[Jankalicious]

It's fun to see all the different versions of Enchantress floating out there these last few months. Having just gotten married this past weekend I hope to have a bit more free time to test a lost for the SCG event coming up in Orlando. Still seems like there is not a consensus on wincons or Sterling. I'm not exactly sure where the meta is today, but I intend to test a WG and possibly a WGx list with Sterling to see if my opinions have changed.

Has anyone really worked with Kruphix's Insight, Commune With the Gods, or the new Green ponder yet?

Simdude and everyone else on here would be better to give you feedback about Sterling Grove as I have not tried it yet. I am sure I will try it at some point over the next year as it can be utilized well. I was happy with Oath of Nissa in the tournament (7/10) as it did get to my Eldrazi finishers and Serra's Sanctum. My reasoning for my two wincons being the Eldrazi is that I feel they fulfill the win condition while also allowing me to win games when coming from behind. I don't think there is a general consensus yet though on the ultimate finisher. I do think Oath of Nissa goes against the concept of other enchantress builds, so it would probably require a significant planeswalker or enchantment powered creatures to really step up big time. I definitely rate it as a card to keep on your radar for future brews and such as I never felt bad having the card in hand.

[Watersaw]

I also think that means we have to recognize that we shouldn't lean on Grass alone but rather the combined effect of Solitary, Sphere, Worship, and Moat which are all viable and make Chalice on 1 look silly.

...

First off, congrats! I tested with Kruphix's Insight for months but cut it from my sideboard the day of the event for Dread of Night because in all my testing leading up to the event I felt like I had too many cards to bring in for "grindy" matchups like Shardless and Miracles and not enough cards that I wanted to remove from those matchups. I like the card a lot and would play it if I had the room while sideboarding.

Jankalicious had 4x Oath of Nissa in his maindeck so he's the expert. I still don't like the card enough because it can't grab the main thing we want (enchantments) but it makes a lot more sense when you're trying to reliably hit Sanctums to cast huge Eldrazi titans as win conditions. I'd also love to one day see the "cares about enchantments" planeswalker who could theoretically give a boost in value to Oath.

Could go superjank and run Island Sanctuary.

I feel pretty much the same way about Kruphix's Insight. The card is AWESOME but I'm not sure we actually have space for it, putting the engine above 15 cards seems dicey. Does open up some hilarious late-game lines involving running through your deck multiple times by chucking Emrakul again and again.

I'm kind of annoyed that we still haven't seen a single planeswalker who cares about enchantments, but it doesn't surprise me. Rant ahead: I feel like non-aura enchantments clash too much with current design philosophy so they're afraid of making them playable outside of supplementing creature strategies. Hell, we've had 3 artifact planeswalkers, 2 mill planeswalkers, a white weenie planeswalker, even a planeswalker planeswalker. Anyway, that's my bit. /salt

[H]

Moat is pretty interesting. When I get a chance to play this deck again I'll certainly try a couple (I don't know how many I'd really want, considering the :w::w: cost, maybe 1 main, one side?) since they are just sitting in my binder collecting dust.

[Megadeus]

Bust out your moats and play them. I think Sphere of Safety is better though

[chemicalstylez]

Hey sim dos you post a deck list? Curious to see what you were running.

[btm10]

Bust out your moats and play them. I think Sphere of Safety is better though

Seconded. Island Sanctuary is cute but probably unnecessary. Worship isn't bad as part of a tutor package, but it's only great against decks that can't kill Argothian and does nothing against Deathrite, Infect, and Tendrils. Sphere is great against anyone hoping to win through combat, gets around Decay, and is one-sided (which helps with using Ulamog or Doomwake as your wincon).


It's fun to see all the different versions of Enchantress floating out there these last few months. Having just gotten married this past weekend I hope to have a bit more free time to test a lost for the SCG event coming up in Orlando. Still seems like there is not a concensus on wincons or Sterling. I'm not exactly sure where the meta is today, but I intend to test a WG and possibly a WGx list with Sterling to see if my opinions have changed.

Has anyone really worked with Kruphix's Insight, Commune With the Gods, or the new Green ponder yet?

Like everyone's been saying - congrats!

I've tested Insight and Commune and while they're fine I would much prefer that they were a single +CA card that could find creatures or enchantments. As it is I don't think either is strong enough on its own unless you're running Replenish. I haven't tried Oath of Nissa yet but I don't think it would take much to make it a worthwhile inclusion. My initial thought is that 4 seems like a lot but that adding even something like a Courser of Kruphix or, if you're feeling ambitious, a second Eidolon of Blossoms (I do think that a singleton is almost non-negotiable at this point) could make 1-2 copies worthwhile, even without running Eldrazi titans.

[Stuart]

(This is sort of a rules questions, so Mods, if you'd prefer I could post this as a new thread in the rules forum.)

I normally play decks with significantly fewer triggers than Enchantress, so I'm wondering how everyone announces their triggers on this deck. Let's say you're casting a Wild Growth and have a couple Enchantresses out; do you just say something like "Wild Growth, which puts 2 triggers on the stack"? Or should I play a Wild Growth, pause, and then announce triggers? I'm planning on playing this in a 1K later this month, and want to be sure I'm announcing my stuff correctly.

[Megadeus]

I just cast a spell, say triggers, and point to everything. Or have all of my triggers that resolve at the same time (upkeep, enxhantress cast triggers) in stacks together and when it comes time say triggers and just point to the stack. Also make sure to look with Mirris Guile before discarding to solitary on upkeep

[The_Dingo]

(This is sort of a rules questions, so Mods, if you'd prefer I could post this as a new thread in the rules forum.)

I normally play decks with significantly fewer triggers than Enchantress, so I'm wondering how everyone announces their triggers on this deck. Let's say you're casting a Wild Growth and have a couple Enchantresses out; do you just say something like "Wild Growth, which puts 2 triggers on the stack"? Or should I play a Wild Growth, pause, and then announce triggers? I'm planning on playing this in a 1K later this month, and want to be sure I'm announcing my stuff correctly.

Every time I cast an enchantment I announce the draw triggers immediately afterwards. So if I have 3 enchantress effects and a sigil on the battlefield I'll say "cast wild growth, draw 3 make an angel?" If there's an eidolon of blossoms on the battlefield I announce it as a separate trigger after the enchantment enters the battlefield.

In my upkeep I just make sure to stack the effects so that they resolve in the order that I want them to. Usually I have mirri's guile resolve first.

[Stuart]

Thanks guys. I figured that was a safe way to do it, but no sense confusing anyone or risking a warning over something dumb like a draw trigger.

Re. Guile: in my weeklies I've been leaving a D6 on my deck as a reminder to spin the Guile before discarding to my Solitary.

[The_Dingo]

Re. Guile: in my weeklies I've been leaving a D6 on my deck as a reminder to spin the Guile before discarding to my Solitary.

This doesn't come up too often, but frequently enough that I feel like I should mention it. If you have emrakul in hand and you are planning to discard it to solitary, make sure to stack the solitary trigger on top of the guile trigger.

[Claymore1]

Was going through my little binder full of Sideboards, and I was looking at the graveyard hate. I normally go with either Rest in Peace, sometimes Ground Seal, and other times I mess with Wheel of Sun and Moon. However, I've I was looking at he artifacts but I am not sure if it's worth the loss of synergy with our deck. What I had in mind is "Diversifying" our graveyard hate, like for example going with a combination of Rest in Peace, Tormods/Relic, and Cage. We lose the synergy but it makes it harder for them to properly find answer for those cards, specially since when they're against enchantress, they know we will bring in an enchantment based grave hate, and makes it difficult for them going blindly with Cabal Therapy as well.

[Megadeus]

I'd argue that any enchantment is better than artifact hate. Nobody really runs strict enchantment hate (except maybe on a local level if you win with this every week). Most hate that can remove enchantments that sees play in legacy also removes artifacts so it doesn't help much. Otherwise I suppose there's an argument to be made for like scavenging ooze since creaturer removal usually comes out against us and we have stockpiles of green mana to activate him and green sun to find him.

[Claymore1]

I'd argue that any enchantment is better than artifact hate. Nobody really runs strict enchantment hate (except maybe on a local level if you win with this every week). Most hate that can remove enchantments that sees play in legacy also removes artifacts so it doesn't help much. Otherwise I suppose there's an argument to be made for like scavenging ooze since creaturer removal usually comes out against us and we have stockpiles of green mana to activate him and green sun to find him.

Hm, you're right, thanks for your side of insight. I never even considered Scavenging Ooze until you mentioned it haha.

[H]

Bust out your moats and play them. I think Sphere of Safety is better though

Yeah, I don't think I want to take out the Sphere, so I'll probably put the Moat in the sideboard.

Here's my list for reference:

1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Argothian Enchantress
1 Doomwake Giant

1 Enlightened Tutor

4 Green Sun's Zenith

1 Banishing Light
1 Solitary Confinement
1 Sphere of Safety
4 Elephant Grass
3 Mirri's Guile
3 Rest in Peace
4 Enchantress's Presence
4 Sterling Grove
4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Wild Growth

1 Helm of Obedience

1 Plains
1 Bayou
1 Savannah
2 Wooded Foothills
3 Serra's Sanctum
4 Windswept Heath
7 Forest

I think I want to cut the Elightened Tutor for an Exploration? The reason being that I have seen how lands can get clogged in your hand, plus it makes it easier to chain Sanctums. Additionally, since I am running 4 Groves, the effect is kind of redundant (except it can grab Helm, but whatever).

I have yet to play against Miracles, but I am curious how we beat something like Counterblance? We we just hope it doesn't come down early and lock us? I am curious if perhaps I should board a couple of Abrupt Decays, is that ever a thing?

[anonymos]

I am curious how we beat something like Counterblance? We we just hope it doesn't come down early and lock us? I am curious if perhaps I should board a couple of Abrupt Decays, is that ever a thing?

Out of the board you can use Choke and/or Blood Moon to seriously hamper them. Running your casting costs up and down and trying to bait them into putting top on their library is good. City of Solitude works really well also, but is a bit narrow.

[Freggle]

I have yet to play against Miracles, but I am curious how we beat something like Counterblance? We we just hope it doesn't come down early and lock us? I am curious if perhaps I should board a couple of Abrupt Decays, is that ever a thing?

Suppression Field or Stony Silence

[Concordant]

I am curious how we beat something like Counterblance? We we just hope it doesn't come down early and lock us? I am curious if perhaps I should board a couple of Abrupt Decays, is that ever a thing?

In general, you should avoid playing 2-card combos if your opponent is playing control. (This is a fundamental principle in magic and has nothing to do with enchantress or miracles.) This is why some players (myself included) dislike Rest in Peace, Helm of Obedience and Enlightened Tutor. Thus, if you're expecting heavy miracles in your metagame, you should not play RiP-Helm in the first place. Personally, I have 3 Suppression Field, 2 Replenish and 1 Choke maindeck instead.

When it comes to playing against an active counter-top, it is usually not a problem as long as you can stick an enchantress first. They can lock you out of 1- and 2-drops, but usually cant counter 3- and 4-drops. Remember that you can "over pay" GSZ if you happen to know that they have a 3-drop. You can also attempt to bait them into tapping out or drawing with the top by using your less important spells.

If you do have an enchantress into play, you're usually in fine shape since you still get to draw even if your spell gets countered. Just cycle through your deck until you find emrakul.

If you don't get an enchantress out, things are going to be rough. The general idea is to overload on must-counter threats. Keep in mind that miracles rely a lot on Sensei's Divining Top, so Stony Silence is good but less so in multiples. Suppression Field is even better since it hits fetchlands and jace too, but it had poor synergy with Mirri's Guile. Replenish is great, but it competes with RiP-Helm for slots.

Abrupt Decay would probably be good against Counterbalance, but it seems too narrow to warrant sideboard slots. (We generally don't care about creatures and we don't want to fetch a Bayou against wasteland decks.) It also does not help against other forms of interaction, like Terminus and FoW.

[H]

In general, you should avoid playing 2-card combos if your opponent is playing control. (This is a fundamental principle in magic and has nothing to do with enchantress or miracles.) This is why some players (myself included) dislike Rest in Peace, Helm of Obedience and Enlightened Tutor. Thus, if you're expecting heavy miracles in your metagame, you should not play RiP-Helm in the first place. Personally, I have 3 Suppression Field, 2 Replenish and 1 Choke maindeck instead.

Well, I was playing the maindeck that I was because my local meta has mostly moved to deck that RiP is just good versus by itself. Our local Miracles players have pretty much moved on to other decks, so that's why I haven't gotten much experience versus the deck.



When it comes to playing against an active counter-top, it is usually not a problem as long as you can stick an enchantress first. They can lock you out of 1- and 2-drops, but usually cant counter 3- and 4-drops. Remember that you can "over pay" GSZ if you happen to know that they have a 3-drop. You can also attempt to bait them into tapping out or drawing with the top by using your less important spells.

If you do have an enchantress into play, you're usually in fine shape since you still get to draw even if your spell gets countered. Just cycle through your deck until you find emrakul.

If you don't get an enchantress out, things are going to be rough. The general idea is to overload on must-counter threats. Keep in mind that miracles rely a lot on Sensei's Divining Top, so Stony Silence is good but less so in multiples. Suppression Field is even better since it hits fetchlands and jace too, but it had poor synergy with Mirri's Guile. Replenish is great, but it competes with RiP-Helm for slots.

Abrupt Decay would probably be good against Counterbalance, but it seems too narrow to warrant sideboard slots. (We generally don't care about creatures and we don't want to fetch a Bayou against wasteland decks.) It also does not help against other forms of interaction, like Terminus and FoW.

Yeah, I usually play a BUG deck and versus Miracles, my #1 priority is always to lock them out of Top. Their deck without Top really isn't very treatening, so I already had plans on a couple of Stoney Silence in my board (I am willing to risk the deck in multiples here since, one, it will probably at least cantip, second, just in case they Council's Judgement it or something (I just really want to see it early)). I'm going to an event at a store that is not my usual one, so I felt there was a chance to see some decks I hadn't before. Last time I was there, the meta was mostly fair non-Blue decks, which was pretty odd, along with some Graveyard based combo decks. Then again, I can't even recall when that was exactly, so the meta could be totally different now (probably over a year ago).

Since I am going down the Black-splash road, I am leery of going too deep on Suppresion Fields, since it could end up being more of a hindrance to me than in a "standard" GW build. I am probably wrong in this, but if assumption leads me to lose some games, then I am fine with that learning curve.

I'm still a noob with the deck, so it's going to take a good bit of time and games for me to get a better feel for certain match-ups. I felt like Decay could also help versus Chalice, since I know for a fact that at least one person is playing Edrazi Stompy (he is one of our locals) and there will probably be more.

[cherson]

I backed and forced a lot with suppression field. Sometimes it is great to see the opponents face tapping 4 mana for some activations but on the other hand I had a lot of mu's where I would like to have something else. Currently I don't play them (again) and added a sigil, runed halo and a third solitary.

[H]

I backed and forced a lot with suppression field. Sometimes it is great to see the opponents face tapping 4 mana for some activations but on the other hand I had a lot of mu's where I would like to have something else. Currently I don't play them (again) and added a sigil, runed halo and a third solitary.

Yeah, I can see how Suppression Field is very polar, either really good, or entirely useless.

I have a Sigil in my sideboard, so that when I board out the RiPs in matchups where it doesn't do anything, I can board out the Helm for it and still have another win condition besides Emrakul.

[simdude]

So I want to talk about the new Sorin http://mythicspoiler.com/soi/cards/soringrimnemesis.jpg

I want to test him over Doomwake Giant in my black splash build. I think that he has a similar function of stabilizing a board and winning the game.

So first the advantages. He stabilizes better against a tall board than Doomwake Giant allowing you to take out things like Thoughtknot Seer and and Ethersworn Canonist easier. I'd suspect the life gain part of his destroy ability is not irrelevant either. He can be a last ditch effort to hope to win by +1 and flipping Emrakul. He's harder to interact with than Doomwake Giant and doesn't die to things like Krosan Grip or get brushed away by Terminus. And despite him not activating your Enchantresses you can still play him and draw at least one card if that's what the situation needs.

And the disadvantages. Well he's not an enchantment so no draw triggers and he can't be fetched up with Enlightened Tutor or Sterling Grove. Also I wouldn't underestimate the fact that he's 1 cmc more and requires WB. Finally he's worse against a wide board so he won't be the near wrath against D&T and stabilizing against Pyromancer style decks but I think that deck construction choices can help mitigate this fact.

I'm interested to test it. I'm not sure changing up a win condition is a very impactful choice at all but it's the only card I expect to see that's even possibly relevant to us.

[Megadeus]

Seems bad. Far worse against death and taxes. I cant imagine a match up this improves that you care about while weakening a weaker matchup you do care about

[H]

Seems bad. Far worse against death and taxes. I cant imagine a match up this improves that you care about while weakening a weaker matchup you do care about

Yeah, I can't see really wanting that in the deck.

On another note, I finally got in my Eidolon, but I'm unsure how to fit it in my list. Need to take a deeper look, but at first glance all I can think of is a Grove, which I really don't want to cut. Perhaps I still leave it out for now.

[cherson]

I wouldn't consider him. Shroud completely shuts him down. Doomwake can basically clean the board with one shot plus one enchantment. Sorin can do it once each turn.

[Freggle]

Hello everyone

So an update. These past few weeks I have been testing quite a bit of Enchantress almost solely the GW variety.

I have been testing GW Opalescence + Parallax Wave

4 Opalescence
4 Parallax Wave
4 Kruphix's Insight
4 Commune with the Gods
3 Sylvan Library
4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Wild Growth
3 Stony Silence
2 Oblivion Ring
1 Leyline of Sanctity
4 Enchantress's Presence
3 Replenish

5 Forest
1 Plains
3 Savannah
4 Serra's Sanctums
4 Windswept Heath
2 Wooded Foothills

SB
3 Banishing light
4 Eidolon of Rhetoric
3 Leyline of sanctity
2 Elephant Grass
3 City of Solitude

...and GW Helm

4 Argothian Enchantress
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Enchantress's Presence

4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Wild Growth
3 Mirri’s Guile
3 Elephant Grass
3 Rest in Peace
3 Suppression Field
2 Banishing Light
3 Solitary Confinement
1 Helm of Obedience
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

11 forest
1 Karakas
1 Plains
4 Serra’s Sanctum
4 Windswept Heath

SB
3 Swords to Plowshares
2 Banishing Light
4 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Gaddock Teeg
4 Sphere of Resistance

Both lists have a lot of merit. GW helm continues to perform quite well especially since the meta has shifted towards eldrazi. Helm has excellent game vs a wide variety of the meta because of key cards line Suppression field, and the new SB innovation of Sphere of Resistance. Since the meta has shifted, and the zelous persecution and golgari charms, Toxic Deluge have fallen out of many sideboards or have dwindled in numbers so BGx decks are no longer the threat that they once were. The thorn in the side of enchantress has been combo decks, the more obscure the harder to beat. i.e. Alluren, or Food Chain. After writing a list of the problem MUs the thought occurred to me it seems like Sphere of resistance was a catch all for the majority of those combo decks. Alluren has to pay (1) pre creature, Food chain combo is no longer at net creature mana. Storm dark ritual nets you (1) mana. Elves. All elves cost (1) more. …as it turns out that is enough to slow the faster combo decks that skimp on more permanent mana to be far slower than enchantress under the same conditions as a result of our growths and sprawls. In testing I was surprised as to how ubiquitous it was. Dredge, Tin Fins, Elves, omnitell …and I can go on and on. Where sphere of resistance fights all of the “lots of spells” decks Banishing light and oblivion ring, and Suppression field do an excellent job at fighting the “A+B” combo decks. I tested Sterling again, and the deck was weaker to faster decks so I’m still not a fan. I have not tested a black splash, I am one to exhaust something prior to looking elsewhere i.e. a new color splash.

The opalescence deck is a blast to play. It is an a+b combo deck fo those that do not know Opalescence and Parallax Wave on the board together makes parallax wave a creature that can exile itself. Without going into the details on how it works stacking the triggers correctly you can exile any creature and non-aura enchantment (Counterbalance / Omniscience anyone?), and in any remotely fair MU completely takes over the game. With an oring on the board you can exile and permanent indefinitely at instant speed. The deck kills very quickly just with enchantment creatures, so all other kills were removed. I should also note that any targeted removal on any enchantment creature you can blink your creature at instant speed and “counter” the removal. The deck is very competitive, but feels less versatile than GW helm.
So that is where I am at

[The_Dingo]

Hello everyone

So an update. These past few weeks I have been testing quite a bit of Enchantress almost solely the GW variety.

I have been testing GW Opalescence + Parallax Wave

4 Opalescence
4 Parallax Wave
4 Kruphix's Insight
4 Commune with the Gods
3 Sylvan Library
4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Wild Growth
3 Stony Silence
2 Oblivion Ring
1 Leyline of Sanctity
4 Enchantress's Presence

5 Forest
1 Plains
3 Savannah
4 Serra's Sanctums
4 Windswept Heath
2 Wooded Foothills

SB
3 Banishing light
4 Eidolon of Rhetoric
3 Leyline of sanctity
2 Elephant Grass
3 City of Solitude

The opalescence deck is a blast to play. It is an a+b combo deck fo those that do not know Opalescence and Parallax Wave on the board together makes parallax wave a creature that can exile itself. Without going into the details on how it works stacking the triggers correctly you can exile any creature and non-aura enchantment (Counterbalance / Omniscience anyone?), and in any remotely fair MU completely takes over the game. With an oring on the board you can exile and permanent indefinitely at instant speed. The deck kills very quickly just with enchantment creatures, so all other kills were removed. I should also note that any targeted removal on any enchantment creature you can blink your creature at instant speed and “counter” the removal. The deck is very competitive, but feels less versatile than GW helm.
So that is where I am at

If you get the chance you should record some of your games with the Opalescence and Parallax Wave version of the deck. I'd love to see it in action.

[area]

What does Sphere of Resistance do that Rule of Law doesn't?

EDIT: I get it, it hurts us less.

[Freggle]

If you get the chance you should record some of your games with the Opalescence and Parallax Wave version of the deck. I'd love to see it in action.

I will try and stream or post something by the end of the week.


What does Sphere of Resistance do that Rule of Law doesn't?

EDIT: I get it, it hurts us less.

That's the big one, but also running quick numbers on a hyper-geometric calculator if both law and sphere were 4 of Sphere is 20+% more likely to come down turn 2 given that it's 1 less mana and there is no color requirement.

It's affects stacks, Where Rule of Laws does not. Also remember a lot of combo decks play Brainstorm and FOW. If they do the benefit under law given that they can cast both on your turn and theirs. Whereas with Sphere if it locks it locks for both.

It also sorta protects itself in that removal spells cost 1 more as well Abrupt Decay would be BG1. Not an easy task for a combo deck with 17 or less lands.

[Seraphim_ID]

Hello everyone

So an update. These past few weeks I have been testing quite a bit of Enchantress almost solely the GW variety.

I have been testing GW Opalescence + Parallax Wave

4 Opalescence
4 Parallax Wave
4 Kruphix's Insight
4 Commune with the Gods
3 Sylvan Library
4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Wild Growth
3 Stony Silence
2 Oblivion Ring
1 Leyline of Sanctity
4 Enchantress's Presence

5 Forest
1 Plains
3 Savannah
4 Serra's Sanctums
4 Windswept Heath
2 Wooded Foothills

SB
3 Banishing light
4 Eidolon of Rhetoric
3 Leyline of sanctity
2 Elephant Grass
3 City of Solitude

The opalescence deck is a blast to play. It is an a+b combo deck fo those that do not know Opalescence and Parallax Wave on the board together makes parallax wave a creature that can exile itself. Without going into the details on how it works stacking the triggers correctly you can exile any creature and non-aura enchantment (Counterbalance / Omniscience anyone?), and in any remotely fair MU completely takes over the game. With an oring on the board you can exile and permanent indefinitely at instant speed. The deck kills very quickly just with enchantment creatures, so all other kills were removed. I should also note that any targeted removal on any enchantment creature you can blink your creature at instant speed and “counter” the removal. The deck is very competitive, but feels less versatile than GW helm.
So that is where I am at
It is more or less with the same idea and tricks as old Replenish.deck had.

But as you play 4 Kruphix's Insight and 4 Commune with the Gods -- why don't you deal with all the advantages of Replenish as you can easily put 1-2 enchantments to grave?
You don't have that extensive card draw as common Enchantress has (just fewer options for this), which means you can easily get to the situation when you won't be able to "infinite" Paralaxes. Also surprising Tranquility or early Tranquil Grove (which I faced recently and was surprised) when there is no Opalescence will drop your match out.

Will Replenish solve all this? Most of the time. Yes it is additional 4cc spell but maybe it worth that.

Also it will allow you to have an addtional option to play around Phyrexian Revoker or Pithing Needle (with your Paralax named) by just returning back 4\4 creature for several turns.

[Freggle]

It is more or less with the same idea and tricks as old Replenish.deck had.

But as you play 4 Kruphix's Insight and 4 Commune with the Gods -- why don't you deal with all the advantages of Replenish as you can easily put 1-2 enchantments to grave?
You don't have that extensive card draw as common Enchantress has (just fewer options for this), which means you can easily get to the situation when you won't be able to "infinite" Paralaxes. Also surprising Tranquility or early Tranquil Grove (which I faced recently and was surprised) when there is no Opalescence will drop your match out.

Will Replenish solve all this? Most of the time. Yes it is additional 4cc spell but maybe it worth that.

Also it will allow you to have an addtional option to play around Phyrexian Revoker or Pithing Needle (with your Paralax named) by just returning back 4\4 creature for several turns.

My apologies. If you count the list it's 57 cards. I inadvertently left off 3 Replenish. I have edited the original post to be correct now.

[Seraphim_ID]

My apologies. If you count the list it's 57 cards. I inadvertently left off 3 Replenish. I have edited the original post to be correct now.
Then one more thing is to fix the typo: "Replensish" --> "Replenish"
And everything will be great ;)

[Zombie]

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/attachments/151/721/635943227112868299.png

This seems good.

[swordoffireandice]

Yeah, I can see how Suppression Field is very polar, either really good, or entirely useless.

I have a Sigil in my sideboard, so that when I board out the RiPs in matchups where it doesn't do anything, I can board out the Helm for it and still have another win condition besides Emrakul.


I was thinking the exact same thing. But in wich matchups would you board out the RiP's and Helm? and what to bring in?

[simdude]

This seems good.

It's definitely interesting. There are going to be plenty of situations where you're searching for a specific card to close out the game and this is going to be your best chance at digging as deep as possible. It also allows you to end of turn sac Sterling Grove then pop this to not have to waste your draw step drawing the card you want off Sterling Grove. Putting things into your graveyard is generally a good thing since we have access to Replenish. I'm thinking this could see play but only in lists that don't want to run RIP/Helm.

On the flipside I'm somewhat hesitant to load up on 1CMC spells since Chalice is running in higher numbers right now and Counterbalance makes them impossible to resolve.

But in general my card evaluation is terrible so you should probably just believe the opposite of whatever I'd wager.

[lordofthepit]

Any chance we can get a primer that isn't older than some of the kids I've seen at FNM?

[LordOMJ]

It's definitely interesting. There are going to be plenty of situations where you're searching for a specific card to close out the game and this is going to be your best chance at digging as deep as possible. It also allows you to end of turn sac Sterling Grove then pop this to not have to waste your draw step drawing the card you want off Sterling Grove. Putting things into your graveyard is generally a good thing since we have access to Replenish. I'm thinking this could see play but only in lists that don't want to run RIP/Helm.

On the flipside I'm somewhat hesitant to load up on 1CMC spells since Chalice is running in higher numbers right now and Counterbalance makes them impossible to resolve.

But in general my card evaluation is terrible so you should probably just believe the opposite of whatever I'd wager.

Say what you want about your card evaluation, but I'm on the exact same page. CB and CotV are definite concerns for streamlining the deck to almost exclusively 1-drops. Conveniently, Aura of Silence out of board is a pretty good answer to both cards (most frequently reactive but occasionally proactive if you have a fast enough start). I also like that sticking an early Vessel can let you 'draw' while hiding behind a Solitary Confinement. I suspect that tension between RiP and Vessel is certainly going to be big factor in the card's inclusion. FWIW, casting RiP once you draw it is optional, so I don't know that they are mutually exclusive (assuming you have slots for both). One of the big questions in my mind is whether RiP does enough as a hate card in the metagame that it's important to keep. For fair MUs I think extra Solitary is a fine replacement, so it probably comes down to percentage points against GY interactive combo.

[cherson]

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/attachments/151/721/635943227112868299.png

This seems good.
But what do u want to replace. Every card in the gw build is better than this one

[Freggle]

http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/attachments/151/721/635943227112868299.png

This seems good.

Quite possibly the best Legacy Enchantress card spoiled since Rest In Peace. The problem is it's not a plug and play into any established build. Since GW adpoted Suppression Field as a meta equalizer, and GWx usually runs Sterling Grove this card is in a tough spot.

Very decent, but below (in the current meta of Miracles, D&T, and Dark Depths.dek) Suppression Field, and below Sterling Grove for GWx.

It may have a home in Opalescence version, but that deck is in the infant stage of development, so it's to early to say that because it would with Card advantage slots where this is card selection.

As for the primer I feel partly responsible as I have intended to write a primer for quite some time, and have stated that in here a few different times. I have done some research scouring Dojo archives, and other old dinosaur sites to reconstruct the history of Enchantress all the way back to 1995 Vercursion (http://oldschool-mtg.blogspot.com/2014/05/enchantress.html) to lay the foundation and the pedigree of the deck, but it's still in notes and not written.

Then I have a section (again 1/4 at best complete) talking about all the Schools of enchantress revolved around "fork in the road cards" i.e. RIP, Sterling, Replenish... and where each should lead you. ...the fact is it's not complete, and I don't know when I can complete it. I suppose at some point I should set aside these grandiose ideas and just pump out a primer on GW Helm which is my real specialty, and go from there.

As for the Opalescence video I hope to stream Sat. morning.

[The_Dingo]

So after playing a few other decks for the last few weeks/months I think I'm back on enchantress for a while. I've decided to drop suppression field for the time being due to meta considerations. Neither miracles nor DnT are particularly well represented locally, and a friend recommended eladamri's vineyard which certainly feels incongruous with suppression field. So here's the list that I played at the last 2 weeklies

4 argothian enchantress
4 enchantress's presence
4 Green sun's zenith
1 Eidolon of blossoms

1 emrakul, the aeons torn
1 doomwake giant
1 sigil of the empty throne
1 replenish

4 wild growth
4 utopia sprawl
2 eladamri's vineyard
1 exploration

4 elephant grass
3 solitary confinement
1 banishing light

3 mirri's guile
2 sterling grove

5 forest
1 dryad arbor
1 bayou
3 serra's sanctum
1 nykthos, shrine to nyx
4 windswept heath
2 wooded foothills
1 plains
1 savannah
1 karakas

Last week I went 1-1-1 beating RUG lands, losing to DnT, and drawing with an academy rector omniscience brew

This week I went 4-0-1 with a 1st round bye, then beating BUG delver, merfolk, sneak and show and an ID in the final round.

I like this list a good bit. It feels more streamlined than some I've put together in the past, and between 13 engine pieces and 14 accelerants it really feels consistent. The velocity which vineyard gives the deck feels awesome and makes me want to emphasize the combo nature of the deck as much as possible. The deck goldfishes a turn 4 emrakul or sigil +3-4 angels pretty frequently.

Does anyone have any advice for the red splash? I think that right now I'd favor words of war over doomwake, but I'd like to know what other options we have out there for red enchantments besides blood moon.

[d0nkey]

Weirding Wood.

Enjoy.

[cherson]

Interesting but somehow too slow considering the 3 mana. Turn 3 or 4 is engine time or already prison. Not sure if I want to have more boost at that stage

[simdude]

I'm pretty sure that effect already exists for 3 mana.

And speaking of cards which is doing an impression of an important card http://mythicspoiler.com/soi/cards/cryptolithrite.jpg

This obviously looks a little bit like Earthcraft even though it's not doing either of the broken things Earthcraft does (net 2/3 mana because of our wild growths or become a win condition with squirrel's nest). But if people are going to be talking about Eladamri's Vineyard is this worth bringing into the discussion?

This card is obviously going to help some combo somewhere though right?

[Freggle]

I'm pretty sure that effect already exists for 3 mana.

And speaking of cards which is doing an impression of an important card http://mythicspoiler.com/soi/cards/cryptolithrite.jpg

This obviously looks a little bit like Earthcraft even though it's not doing either of the broken things Earthcraft does (net 2/3 mana because of our wild growths or become a win condition with squirrel's nest). But if people are going to be talking about Eladamri's Vineyard is this worth bringing into the discussion?

This card is obviously going to help some combo somewhere though right?

Nettle Sentinel - Which is also Green Sun's-able

[Claymore1]

There's an enchantress deck that placed on 1st, well it tied with others also for the spot. It was last week, March 19th, at Card Kingdom's Legacy Preservation 1k. The deck was piloted by someone named Jeremy Edwards. The deck is a traditional GW replenish base, non-RIP helm, but has some different card choices.

It ran main decked Carpet of Flowers, and it ran Sensei's Divining Top, unless this was a mistake and they meant it's mirri's guile.

The other 7 decks that took the top in the tournament was:

Miracles
Merfolk
Tin Fins
Grixis Delver
Esper Deathblade
Infect
MUD

[cherson]

Finals were Grixis vs miracles which miracles won,right? I saw the first enchantress game vs another Grixis player on twitch and he has top md as well as at least 3 carpet of flowers. Top is great because it makes sure that u always draw at least one card. He quite often played it, looked at three, drew with too and played an enchantment to draw the top again.
Replenish main is also correct, not sure how many but he played one and I think he had one more in hand.

Couldn't find the deck list so don't know more about the deck.
The game I saw is still available on twitch. Starts at 3 hours 50 min or something like that.

[Zombie]

Nettle Sentinel - Which is also Green Sun's-able

At which point we're probably better off playing Elves.

[Freggle]

As for the Opalescence video I hope to stream Sat. morning.

https://www.twitch.tv/forbiddengrove

Trying to stream now.

[The_Dingo]

Played enchantress again at FNM, similar list to what I posted before, except +1 words of war, +1 taiga, -1 bayou, -1 doomwake. I went 2-1 in matches.

R1 vs BR turbo reanimator won 2-1
R2 vs infect lost 1-2
R3 vs burn won 2-1

The match against reanimator was super interesting. Game 1 he shows me chancellor of the annex in his opening hand, which he reanimates. 4 attack steps later I'm dead. Game 2 he has a mediocre hand and the only pressure he applies is a reanimated chancellor. He eventually finds griselbrand but I'm able to combo off and make a stack of angels with sigil for the win. Game 3 he exhumes a griselbrand on turn 2. I have an oblivion ring off the top for it, but his hand is super stacked now. I have 1 turn unimpeded where I'm able to land an enchantress before he gets Iona on green. The turn before I die to Iona beats I find karakas, and then I take a mini combo turn where I stick a bunch of protective enchantments, which seems great... until he casts burning wish for reverent silence. He gets griselbitch back from the O ring, which I Karakas bounce. So now I have an enchantress, and a dryad arbor is clocking him real hard (he's at 4 from griselbrand activations and fetches). Things are looking up, until he casts burning wish for massacre, then to add insult to injury he reanimates my dryad arbor! It's a real slow burn however, and I find a sterling grove for words of war. 2 draw steps later he still hasn't found an answer and dies.

I won game 1 vs infect with a monster hand, but he gets games 2 and 3 with ease.

Game 1 against burn was super close. I was forced to confinement with only 1 enchantress in play, but I got very lucky and hit presence then argothian along the way to lock the game up, and I close it out with words of war. Game 2 I keep a 6 card hand with leyline but no green source which I never find. Game 3 I had the nuts with leyline, lands and multiple enchantress effects. Solitary comes down on T4 and I close the game out with spaghetti a turn later.

[The_Dingo]

Played 5 rounds with enchantress last night going 3-2. I tried doing a side by side comparison of doomwake giant and words of war, so I had both in the deck at the same time. As a result my mana was a little funky. For reference.

1 taiga
1 bayou
1 savannah
1 plains
4 forest
4 windswept heath
2 wooded foothills
1 karakas
3 serra's sanctumm
1 nykthos, shrine to Nyx
1 dryad arbor

4 argothian
4 presence
4 GSZ
1 eidolon

1 emrakul
1 doomwake
1 words of war
1 replenish

4 wild growth
4 utopia sprawl
2 eladamri's vineyard

4 elephant grass
3 solitary confinement
1 banishing light

3 sterling grove
2 mirri's guile
1 sylvan library

R1 vs RG post. Game 1 was a ramp race, which I narrowly won. Game 2 my opponent got stuck on 2 lands for a turn or 2 which was just too long, and even though she started to put up a good fight, I was just too far ahead.

R2 vs esper deathblade Game 1 my first enchantress effect gets hit by thoughtseize and my 2nd by force of will. I hide behind a veritable wall of elephant grasses while my mirri's guile shows me garbage cards turn after turn. Game 2 I mull to 6, and keep a land with several nonbasics, all of which get wasted, and I don't think I ever resolve an enchantress

R3 vs burn I win the race to establish a solitary lock and my opponent concedes. Game 2 I keep 6 with a leyline, but my opponent had many creatures including eidolon and I die before I ever find a solitary. Game 3 I mulligan to 6 with no leyline and double swiftspear and a pile of burn do me in.

R4 vs battle of wits My opponent is very disruptive and has very good tutor targets to slow me down. Just as I'm getting some momentum my opponent plays battle of wits and I am unable to answer it. Game 2 he is pretty disruptive but I happily draw redudant enchantress effects and I eventually close the game out with words of war. Game 3 he gets stuck on 2 lands while on a mulligan to 6 never really gets back in it.

R5 vs BUG delver I lose game 1 to multiple spell pierces and a fast clock. Game 2 I'm hazy on the details but I think he had a pretty weak draw and I was able to execute the enchantress plan undisturbed. Game 3 he has an aggressive start with double delver, bob, goyf and DRS in the opening turns. An elephant grass gets decayed and I take a big hit going to 9. I solitary up with only one enchantress in play and try to keep making land drops while my opponent digs for decays via bob and a sylvan library. I stick a few more enchantress effects, then Fearing decay, I play a second then a 3rd solitary. In extra turns I find my emrakul and cast it for the win.


I really really like words of war and I wish there were other impactful red enchantments (besides blood moon) to play. But unless I can find some other good red enchantments for the SB I think I will continue to stick to GWb for the more more stable manabase.

[LordOMJ]

I really really like words of war and I wish there were other impactful red enchantments (besides blood moon) to play. But unless I can find some other good red enchantments for the SB I think I will continue to stick to GWb for the more more stable manabase.

While part of me really wants to see enchantress run Mindmoil, I'm pretty sure that nothing printed so far is good enough to justify a red manabase. But for real tho. Mindmoil. Because this deck doesn't get to draw enough cards as it is.

[The_Dingo]

While part of me really wants to see enchantress run Mindmoil, I'm pretty sure that nothing printed so far is good enough to justify a red manabase. But for real tho. Mindmoil. Because this deck doesn't get to draw enough cards as it is.

Haha, mindmoil is pretty hilarious. I think in the right meta blood moon is good enough to justify the red splash, but as of this moment I agree.


Speaking of meta game considerations, I haven't played against the Eldrazi deck yet with enchantress. How is the MU? Does Eldrazi warrant any special consideration in the maindeck or in the sideboard?

Also, in response to the eldrazi deck people seem to be moving back to abrupt decay decks. I've been off MD helm rip combo for quite a while because I felt RIP to be underwhelming. Does RIP earn its' spot back as a result of the move back to BUG decks? Or have I just been wrong all along to NOT play RIP helm?

[cherson]

Did someone try top instead of Mirri's? It was interesting to see how it worked out and would like to know if someone else did some testing?

BTW this is the deck list.
http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=11922&d=268241&f=LE

[Claymore1]

I saw that list, however, i just dislike the idea of increasing the non-enchantments in the deck. Since I run words of war also, I even favor sylvan library over mirri's guile. But that's just a preference. Also wanted to get you guy's opinion, I have access to both these tokens, they're very difficult to track down and hunt. But which one looks nicer? I like them both but only prefers to use one.

http://i63.tinypic.com/nm0vf9.jpg

http://i67.tinypic.com/1fuu07.jpg

To those that are wondering what those tokens are or from:

The first angel, it's from a Magic: the Gathering company based in china. It's a JingHe Age 10th anniversary angel token.
The second angel, it's a pre release angel token from Star City Games Center for the m15 pre release event.

Edit: the chinese one only comes in non-foil, and the SCG one only comes in foil.

[Bikapa]

I saw that list, however, i just dislike the idea of increasing the non-enchantments in the deck. Since I run words of war also, I even favor sylvan library over mirri's guile. But that's just a preference. Also wanted to get you guy's opinion, I have access to both these tokens, they're very difficult to track down and hunt. But which one looks nicer? I like them both but only prefers to use one.

http://i63.tinypic.com/nm0vf9.jpg

http://i67.tinypic.com/1fuu07.jpg

To those that are wondering what those tokens are or from:

The first angel, it's from a Magic: the Gathering company based in china. It's a JingHe Age 10th anniversary angel token.
The second angel, it's a pre release angel token from Star City Games Center for the m15 pre release event.

Edit: the chinese one only comes in non-foil, and the SCG one only comes in foil.

As for the tokens, i really like the 10th anniversary jinghe tokens, its incredibly hard to find and i used to have a few copies of them in my miracles for tokens but decided to sell them a year ago because i have not used miracles for a while now and couldnt justify keeping them. Anyways that token is a testament to a piece of magic history and I would honestly prefer using that over the SCG token :D it would also complement you deck if your entire deck is non-foil as a lot of the enchantress cards are old-bordered, just my opinion on this :)

[btm10]

The first angel, it's from a Magic: the Gathering company based in china. It's a JingHe Age 10th anniversary angel token.
The second angel, it's a pre release angel token from Star City Games Center for the m15 pre release event.

Edit: the chinese one only comes in non-foil, and the SCG one only comes in foil.

I can't speak to that list, but I vote for the JingHe token. Nonfoil, reminiscent of the old card frame, and non-English. Checks all my boxes.


Haha, mindmoil is pretty hilarious. I think in the right meta blood moon is good enough to justify the red splash, but as of this moment I agree.


Speaking of meta game considerations, I haven't played against the Eldrazi deck yet with enchantress. How is the MU? Does Eldrazi warrant any special consideration in the maindeck or in the sideboard?

Also, in response to the eldrazi deck people seem to be moving back to abrupt decay decks. I've been off MD helm rip combo for quite a while because I felt RIP to be underwhelming. Does RIP earn its' spot back as a result of the move back to BUG decks? Or have I just been wrong all along to NOT play RIP helm?

I'm pretty ambivalent on RiP/Helm. The last few times I've played I've used either just Emrakul, Emrakul + Doomwake Giant, or Emrakul + Sigil as my win conditions. RiP/Helm isn't as compact as Sigil or Doomwake in terms of slots, especially since it pushes you toward running more than just the one Rest in Peace. I like RiP/Helm more if you're already taking a toolbox approach and have Enlightened Tutor so you have more turn 4-5 instances of "oops, I win" by tutoring for Helm after incidentally casting RiP.

As for Eldrazi, I haven't played against it much, but the few times I have one person has always basically not played Magic. Either I had a hand that was reliant on 1-drops and they had turn 1 Chalice on the play, or they didn't have Chalice and Thought-Knot came down a turn too late to stop me. My guess is that it's about 50/50 overall but that each game was fairly polarized. They're the only Chalice deck that's fast enough to reliably capitalize on Chalice against us, but they're also one of the decks that's weakest to the pillow fort.

[Rakadis]

Going to a fairly large tournament on Saturday and I wanted to try @Freggle newest take on GW Helm.

But I do not own/can not afford to fork out for a Karakas and the Sphere of Resistance that I ordered are being sent from half a world away and I do not think they will be here by Saturday.

So this is the closest I could do:

Mainboard (39) :

4 Argothian Enchantress
3 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Enchantress's Presence
4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Wild Growth
3 Mirri’s Guile
3 Elephant Grass
3 Rest in Peace
3 Suppression Field
3 Banishing Light
3 Solitary Confinement
1 Helm of Obedience
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

Land (21) :

12 forest
1 Plains
4 Serra’s Sanctum
4 Windswept Heath

Sideboard (15) :

3 Swords to Plowshares
4 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Helm of Obedience
2 Stony Silence
1 Sigil of the Empty Throne
1 Seal of Primordium
1 Melira, Sylvok Outcast

My list has a little bit of everything. Not sure what to expect. The last tournament I went to had many rogue decks and a lot of "outdated" decks. The meta in my area is slow to evolve.

But, I think it is going to be fun.

Wish me luck and if you have any feedback please do share it.

[cherson]

With all the decays around I really suggest sterling Grove and if u don't have sphere u should consider the 4th grass.
If u don't have karakas I would add a second Plain.

Anyway, good luck.

[Rakadis]

Sorry for the late update. I did not get to play in the tournament as there was a lot of snow (It went from bare roads to about 10cm in two hours ) before I was going to drive to the tournament, and as a responsible citizen of Norway who had just replaced my winter tires with summer tires I stayed at home without risking my life. Results was that lands won the tournament with death & taxes in second, dredge third and merfolk in fourth.

This irks me quite a lot as I think I would have had a good chance at beating them. But then again, better to live and learn than to die in a car crash on the way to the tournament...

[Megadeus]

Greatness at any cost my friend

[Claymore1]

I would like to recommend increasing your fetchland count to 6, specially when you have that many Mirri's Guile in your deck. Try to squeeze some Sterling Groves as well, as someone already mentioned, due to the presence of Abrupt Decay.

[porcupinetreeman]

I would like to recommend increasing your fetchland count to 6, specially when you have that many Mirri's Guile in your deck. Try to squeeze some Sterling Groves as well, as someone already mentioned, due to the presence of Abrupt Decay.

I've been testing that list quite a bit lately. I think 4 Windswept is the correct number with the suppression fields. I run 1 Suppression in the SB also. I don't think the Sterling Groves are necessary in the current meta.

[The_Dingo]

Played enchantress at my local weekly on Tuesday, and I'm planning on playing it at FNM tonight. Nothing innovative in my list, but it feels solid.

4 argothian enchantress
4 Enchantresses presence
4 green sun's zenith
1 eidolon of blossoms

1 emrakul, the aeons torn
1 sigil of the empty throne
1 replenish

4 wild growth
4 utopia sprawl
2 eladamri's vineyard
1 exploration

4 elephant grass
3 solitary confinement
3 sterling grove
1 Banishing light

2 Mirri's guile
1 Sylvan library

5 Forest
1 Plains
1 bayou
1 savannah
4 windswept heath
2 wooded foothills
3 serra's sanctum
1 Nykthos, shrine to Nyx
1 karakas
1 dryad arbor

4 leyline of sanctity
2 suppression field
2 rest in peace
1 helm of ebodience
1 doomwake giant
1 dread of night
1 gaddock teeg
1 reclamation sage
1 oblivion ring
1 humility

R1 1-2 vs aggro loam
R2 2-0 vs jund nic fit
R3 2-0 vs reanimator
R4 0-2 vs lands
R5 My opponent conceded to me in order to go home.

Aggro loam is hard. That is all.
Nic fit got stuck on 3 lands in game 1 after popping an exploder. Game 2 I was very explosive and made many angels.
Karakas in the opening hand plus elephant grass drawn a bit later basically won me this game. Game 2 tidespout made me pick up all my lands, so my board was serra's sanctum and 3 argothian enchantress. Pretty hilarious.
Against lands I never saw a basic forest or fetchland in either game, and I mulled to 5 in both games, so that was lame.

[btm10]

Cryptolith Rite isn't Earthcraft, but it's still pretty damn good. 6-2 in test games so far against Eldrazi, Shardless, and Grixis Delver.

4 Argothian Enchantress
4 Enchantress's Presence
3 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Eidolon of Blossoms
1 Doomwake Giant
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn


4 Sterling Grove
3 Mirri's Guile

4 Wild Growth
4 Utopia Sprawl
2 Cryptolith Rite

3 Elephant Grass
2 Banishing Light
1 Solitary Confinement
1 Sphere of Safety
1 Rest in Peace

4 Windswept Heath
2 Verdant Catacombs
3 Serra's Sanctum
1 Marsh Flats
7 Forest
1 Plains
1 Bayou
1 Karakas

Sideboard
3 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Stony Silence
2 City of Solitude
2 Rest in Peace
2 Seal of Primordium
2 Swords to Plowshares
1 Doomwake Giant
1 The Abyss

EDIT:

Emrakul/The Abyss is a bit of a nonbo, and The Abyss is very, very good right now. It might be worth an MD copy, in which case I'd probably go back to Sigil, or even the old school tech of one of the Onslaught Words Enchantments as a way to deck them.

[Wordslinger]

I believe that the ways a lot of people have this deck built are garbage in the face of people who actually know how to play against it. It has been my experience

that the landstill and miracles matchups in particular, as well as to a lesser extent delver variants, have favourable matchups against most of the lists I see in this thread when the pilots know what they are doing. I think that if enchantress is to succeed, it's pilots must realize that in a properly built version of the deck, the first order of business is not to get the engine online - it is to get your prison pieces in place so you can play Solitare.

[btm10]

I believe that the ways a lot of people have this deck built are garbage in the face of people who actually know how to play against it. It has been my experience

that the landstill and miracles matchups in particular, as well as to a lesser extent delver variants, have favourable matchups against most of the lists I see in this thread when the pilots know what they are doing. I think that if enchantress is to succeed, it's pilots must realize that in a properly built version of the deck, the first order of business is not to get the engine online - it is to get your prison pieces in place so you can play Solitare.

This is nonsense, especially if you're prioritizing the pillow fort against Landstill and Miracles, which are the matchups where the engine matters the most. The first order of business has to be getting to at least 4 mana and an Enchantress effect in play by turn 3, and the rest will follow naturally from every spell cycling. You're never going to beat a deck full of discard or counterspells without the engine regardless of how many lock pieces are in place, especially given that Deathrite gets around all of our defenses but Rest in Peace. If the Landstill variants you're running in to are of the Pernicious Deed variety then you're definitely going to be building the deck with more Karmic Justices and Replenishes (and less Rest in Peace), but otherwise it's hard to make sense of your statement.

[The_Dingo]

I believe that the ways a lot of people have this deck built are garbage in the face of people who actually know how to play against it. It has been my experience that the landstill and miracles matchups in particular, as well as to a lesser extent delver variants, have favourable matchups against most of the lists I see in this thread when the pilots know what they are doing. I think that if enchantress is to succeed, it's pilots must realize that in a properly built version of the deck, the first order of business is not to get the engine online - it is to get your prison pieces in place so you can play Solitare.

This seems like really bad advice to me. Could you be more specific? Which prison pieces are you referring to?

[Megadeus]

Yeah that is nonsense. Establishing your engine is the best way to beat those decks. Once every spell you cast draws two cards, the counter spell decks have no way of keeping up with you. If Emrakul is your main threat, then they also can't counter your win condition. Barring a really good counter balance hand from miracles, I don't think it's a negative match up by any means

[The_Dingo]

Cryptolith Rite isn't Earthcraft, but it's still pretty damn good. 6-2 in test games so far against Eldrazi, Shardless, and Grixis Delver.

4 Argothian Enchantress
4 Enchantress's Presence
3 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Eidolon of Blossoms
1 Doomwake Giant
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn


4 Sterling Grove
3 Mirri's Guile

4 Wild Growth
4 Utopia Sprawl
2 Cryptolith Rite

3 Elephant Grass
2 Banishing Light
1 Solitary Confinement
1 Sphere of Safety
1 Rest in Peace

4 Windswept Heath
2 Verdant Catacombs
3 Serra's Sanctum
1 Marsh Flats
7 Forest
1 Plains
1 Bayou
1 Karakas

Sideboard
3 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Stony Silence
2 City of Solitude
2 Rest in Peace
2 Seal of Primordium
2 Swords to Plowshares
1 Doomwake Giant
1 The Abyss

EDIT:

Emrakul/The Abyss is a bit of a nonbo, and The Abyss is very, very good right now. It might be worth an MD copy, in which case I'd probably go back to Sigil, or even the old school tech of one of the Onslaught Words Enchantments as a way to deck them.

I was very busy with finals, so I didn't really have time to comment, but this is a very interesting list. I've tried the abyss in the past and found that doomwake provides a similar function but better because he's a clock. I'm dubious about cryptolith rites because it doesn't hit the board till turn 2, which is ideally when I'd like to be casting my first enchantress effect. Maybe I'm thinking about rites the wrong way. Could you explain what the card accomplishes that enchantress needs?

[Blastoderm]

I believe that the ways a lot of people have this deck built are garbage in the face of people who actually know how to play against it. It has been my experience

that the landstill and miracles matchups in particular, as well as to a lesser extent delver variants, have favourable matchups against most of the lists I see in this thread when the pilots know what they are doing. I think that if enchantress is to succeed, it's pilots must realize that in a properly built version of the deck, the first order of business is not to get the engine online - it is to get your prison pieces in place so you can play Solitare.

No. Just...no.

[cherson]

Dropping prison effects over card advantage? It might be the case against burn, goblins or very fast clocks but just to get another two turns to setup your engine. Against counter magic no way. I even try to beat them with hate cards to resolve my engines..

[The_Dingo]

The meta I've been playing in has become infested with reanimator and RGb lands. Does anyone have a take on enchantress that seems like it should do well against both of those decks? I was thinking that a few ground seals might be okay, or maybe it's time to start playing RiP/helm again?

Any thoughts on metagaming against lands and reanimator?

[Blastoderm]

The meta I've been playing in has become infested with reanimator and RGb lands. Does anyone have a take on enchantress that seems like it should do well against both of those decks? I was thinking that a few ground seals might be okay, or maybe it's time to start playing RiP/helm again?

Any thoughts on metagaming against lands and reanimator?

I still play RiP/Helm with 3 RiP main. Elephant Grass is also terrific vs Lands...especially with 4 Sterling Groves to protect it. Reanimator is hard though, it's a turn 2 deck alot of the time so RiP can be too slow. Elephant Grass stops Griselbrand but you can't expect to win after a draw-14.

[The_Dingo]

I played enchantress at a 44 person 1k. Finished 3-3 after 6 rounds. My list is the same as the one I posted a week or two ago except I found room for a rec sage in the main, figuring that there would be lots of chalices and counterbalances. There were plenty of both, but I don't think I ever really got to hit anything too important in any game 1.

2-0 vs lossett style legends miracles. Game 1 my opponent has just about zero interaction and I run him over. Game 2 I resolve an early GSZ for 2 and grab Teeg, which my opponent seemed quite startled by. He never finds a swords or karakas and Teeg ensures that I combo unmolested.
1-0

0-2 vs sneak and show. Opponent has turn 3 sneak attack plus fatty both games and just crushes me
1-1

2-1 vs 4 color loam. Games 1 and 3 were grindy affairs, both of which were won off the back of sigil of the empty throne Doomwake did work in game 3 by eliminating a few bobs and a thalia.
2-1

1-2 vs enchantress. I goldfish better in game 1 then he goldfished better in 2 and 3. He also had aura of silence in games 2 and 3 which was absolutley crippling.
2-2

0-2 vs tin fins. Not much to say. Dead on turn 2 in game 1 and dead on turn 1 in game 2.
2-3

2-0 vs eldrazi. We both keep good hands in game 1 but he doesn't have a chalice and I combo out pretty quickly after setting up a lock. Game 2 he mulligans to 5, but I keep a 6 card hand with just one land (with 2 zeniths and 2 utopia sprawls). I don't find land number 2 for a while, but I am able to add a few enchantress effects to the board using E grass as one shot fog effects. Eventually I'm able to confinement up, and he can't beat it.

[simdude]

Cryptolith Rite isn't Earthcraft, but it's still pretty damn good. 6-2 in test games so far against Eldrazi, Shardless, and Grixis Delver.

[snip]

EDIT:

Emrakul/The Abyss is a bit of a nonbo, and The Abyss is very, very good right now. It might be worth an MD copy, in which case I'd probably go back to Sigil, or even the old school tech of one of the Onslaught Words Enchantments as a way to deck them.


I didn't purchase any copies of The Abyss so maybe I'm doing this list really wrong but I tried this shell and I had absolutely no luck with Crytoplith Rites. I found that if I had creatures I was probably doing fine. It was a bit like exploration where it just helped combo off but unlike Exploration because of summoning sickness it made you wait a turn.

I did however take a first attempt at a Vessel of Nascency deck for a few spins. I've really enjoyed it a lot. If I were to sleeve up a deck for a tournament tomorrow I think I'd want to play it. I'm currently playing 3 Vessels and 2 Replenish. My win-cons are down to Emrakul and Doomwake Giant. I can't tell if the deck needs a 3rd win condition. I might need to go back to playing Sigil I just never loved Sigil as much as RIP/Helm. I'm open to crazy suggestions.

Also I'm kinda going full yolo right now and don't have any graveyard hate. I can't figure out what the right replacement for RIP is. Ground Seal doesn't hurt replenish and replaces itself but is slow and narrow in what it stops. Sun of Wheel and Moon is one-sided but doesn't deal with things already in the yard. Cage is tricky because it stops you from returning Eidolon and Doomwake which is amazing when it happens but maybe you don't need those cards in the matchups you need Cage. I've never even played with Tormod's Crypt or Relic of Progenitus in legacy so I can't even guess at their effectiveness.

On an unrelated note I just wanted to whine about Miracles. Almost all of my play is online recently and the deck is heavily over-represented there and despite the matchup probably being favorable (and probably even more favorable when running Replenish) I've been steamrolled by so many Terminus and Counterbalances it hurts. Monastary Mentor makes the matchup so much more miserable since elephant grass is so bad in the matchup otherwise.

[btm10]

I didn't purchase any copies of The Abyss so maybe I'm doing this list really wrong but I tried this shell and I had absolutely no luck with Crytoplith Rites. I found that if I had creatures I was probably doing fine. It was a bit like exploration where it just helped combo off but unlike Exploration because of summoning sickness it made you wait a turn.

I think of it mostly as a Wild Growth effect for when I already have a creature in play. It does push you toward running a Courser just for a other body to make mana, but it's been helpful both as acceleration and as color fixing. There's a reasonable argument that it's win-more when you have multiple creatures in play, in which case I'll probably try a Fertile Ground over one of them as I have liked having 9th accelerant.



On an unrelated note I just wanted to whine about Miracles. Almost all of my play is online recently and the deck is heavily over-represented there and despite the matchup probably being favorable (and probably even more favorable when running Replenish) I've been steamrolled by so many Terminus and Counterbalances it hurts. Monastary Mentor makes the matchup so much more miserable since elephant grass is so bad in the matchup otherwise.

Suppression Field is the best hate for Miracles specifically, but more generic stuff like Stony Silence and City of Solitude are better uses of sideboard space. They can't meaningfully interact with City in play, and it's almost maindeckable as it is between the number of counters in the format and how good it is against D&T and Lands. Doomwake Giant makes Mentor embarrassing. Beyond that, take advantage of your tutors and try to favor Presence over Argothian and Eidolon since it's much harder for them to get rid of. Sterling Grove + Replenish is quite the combo.

[Scott]

I'll probably try a Fertile Ground over one of them as I have liked having 9th accelerant.

Don't forget to also try Trace of Abundance to see if you like it.

Guarding lands against Rishadan Port and protecting Serra's Sanctum happens more than you might expect, at least in my weird build.

[famdoola]

been lurkin on this thread for about awhile now, and have been jamming enchantress in paper/cockatrice and absolutely love it.

was able to take this list to top 8 at the GP colombus trial joint @ stomping grounds in warminster,pa earlier today.

faced off against 12post mud thing (won 2-1) - U/R delver (loss 0-2) -- miracles (won 2-1 & 2-0) - and then ID'd into top 8 where we split

Babes
4 Argothian Enchantress
4 Enchantress's Presence
4 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Eidolon of Blossoms
1 Doomwake Giant
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Sigil of the Empty Throne

Acceleration:
4 Wild Growth
4 Utopia Sprawl
1 Exploration
1 Cryptolith Rite

Dig
4 Mirri's Guile
2 Sterling Grove
1 Vessel of Nascency

Breathing Room
3 Elephant Grass
2 Solitary Confinement
1 Banishing Light
1 Sphere of Safety

Lands
6 Forest
4 Serra's Sanctum
4 Windswept Heath
3 Wooded Foothills
1 Plains
1 Bayou
1 Karakas
1 Savannah

SB: 4 Leyline of Sanctity
SB: 2 Suppression Field
SB: 2 City of Solitude
SB: 2 Rest in Peace
SB: 1 Seal of Primordium
SB: 1 The Abyss
SB: 1 Stony Silence
SB: 1 Krosan Grip
SB: 1 Helm of Obedience


too tired to really do a full report at the moment, but if anyone would like some insight into how specific matches went, i'd be glad to answer.

I also think there is some truth to playing lock pieces prior to getting the engine running, but it isn't always a black & white scenario. For instance, against mud i kept enchantresses back and went for grove into stony silence to effectively lock him out of the game off his own trinisphere - then the following turns got the engine running and the spaghetti cookin'. Same thing happened in a g2 against miracles where i went guile into suppression field into city of solitude, into spaghetti dinner.

This however isn't always the case, but i think it's important to be open to those lines of play, given your hand/the matchup/board state/etc.,

[nikostra]

Hi, I want to play Enchantress in GP Prague in 2 weeks and because I didn't get to test as much as i wanted to, I have some problems with sideboarding. This is my List for reference:

Enchantresses
4 Argothian Enchantress
4 Enchantress's Presence
3 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Eidolon of Blossoms

Win Conditons:
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Helm of Obediance

Acceleration:
4 Wild Growth
4 Utopia Sprawl
1 Exploration

Enchantments
3 Mirri's Guile
3 Sterling Grove
4 Elephant Grass
3 Solitary Confinement
1 Banishing Light
1 Sphere of Safety
2 Rest in Peace

Lands
7 Forest
3 Serra's Sanctum
4 Windswept Heath
2 Wooded Foothills
2 Plains
1 Karakas
1 Savannah

Sideboard
3 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Suppression Field
1 City of Solitude
2 Replenish
2 Stony Silence
1 Aegis of the God
1 Carpet of Flowers
1 Choke
2 Swords to Plowshares
1 Karmic Justice

What do you typically side out? Of course sometimes it's pretty obvious, but more often than not I find myself just taking out basically 1 of everything and that can't be right.
Would be great to hear some opinions about sideboarding!

[simdude]

What do you typically side out? Of course sometimes it's pretty obvious, but more often than not I find myself just taking out basically 1 of everything and that can't be right.
Would be great to hear some opinions about sideboarding!


That's a really open ended question. If you wanted matchup specific advice you could start with what matchup and what your sideboarding decisions already are.

So for example with Miracles I would probably side
-2 RIP
-1 Helm
-1 Solitary Confinement
-2 Elephant Grass
-1 Exploration

+2 Stony Silence
+1 City of Solitude
+1 Choke
+2 Replenish
+1 Suppression Field

My choices are because you don't need to be so anti-aggro against Miracles and RIP/Helm is dangerous because I've played plenty of Miracles matches that required re-shuffling the graveyard with Emrakul to not die. Plus Helm is a non-bo with Stony Silence.

[nedleeds]

Also I'm kinda going full yolo right now and don't have any graveyard hate. I can't figure out what the right replacement for RIP is. Ground Seal doesn't hurt replenish and replaces itself but is slow and narrow in what it stops. Sun of Wheel and Moon is one-sided but doesn't deal with things already in the yard. Cage is tricky because it stops you from returning Eidolon and Doomwake which is amazing when it happens but maybe you don't need those cards in the matchups you need Cage. I've never even played with Tormod's Crypt or Relic of Progenitus in legacy so I can't even guess at their effectiveness.

http://magiccards.info/scans/en/jou/59.jpg

If you insist on one or two card and not running 4xLeyline there's this. Everything else is symmetrical or not a permanent. Surgical can have some text against Storm on the draw. Faerie Macabre is the best vs. Reanimator, because it's un counterable and gives you a Wind Drake vs. Exhume.

[nikostra]

Anybody rocking Enchantress in one of the GPs next week? Would be interested in how your lists look and what you think about the deck in the current metagame?:smile:

I'm going to play in GP Prague and I hope I can somehow escape the combo decks for a day, because I really like our position against most fair deck right now.

[The_Dingo]

Anybody rocking Enchantress in one of the GPs next week? Would be interested in how your lists look and what you think about the deck in the current metagame?:smile:

I'm going to play in GP Prague and I hope I can somehow escape the combo decks for a day, because I really like our position against most fair deck right now.

I'm not playing in the legacy GP sadly.

Even though I've been off of RiP helm for quite some time I really like the look of the list that you posted previously. I think that I'd recommend 2 changes to the maindeck. I'd swap 1 basic plains for a Nykthos, shrine to Nyx, and I'd find room for the 4th GSZ. I wasn't a believer in GSZ #4, but when I finally tried it, it was great. For the SB I'd recommend cutting Karmic Justice, since it has very little utility except against pernicious deed decks (ie just nic fit), and I'd cut carpet of flowers, which has never seemed that great to me. I'd replace them with Teeg, which is an excellent hoser vs storm and miracles, and I urge you to consider reclamation sage which is a great out to random stuff like chalice of the void.

[cherson]

Someone went to the gp's?

[glowparty]

enchantress bests a 50 player outside Seattle. ESG kicked my butt:

http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=12777&d=274099&f=LE

1 Replenish
1 Sigil of the Empty Throne
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Seal of Primordium
1 Banishing Light
4 Solitary Confinement
3 Elephant Grass
4 Carpet of Flowers
4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Wild Growth
3 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Eidolon of Blossoms
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Enchantress's Presence
4 Argothian Enchantress
2 Serra's Sanctum
1 Wooded Foothills
4 Windswept Heath
1 Savannah
1 Plains
11 Forest

Sideboard
1 Gaea's Touch
2 Krosan Grip
1 Garruk, Primal Hunter
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Mirri's Guile
1 Karmic Justice
1 Worship
1 Pithing Needle
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Rest in Peace
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Seal of Primordium
1 Elephant Grass

[cherson]

enchantress bests a 50 player outside Seattle. ESG kicked my butt:

http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=12777&d=274099&f=LE

1 Replenish
1 Sigil of the Empty Throne
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Seal of Primordium
1 Banishing Light
4 Solitary Confinement
3 Elephant Grass
4 Carpet of Flowers
4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Wild Growth
3 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Eidolon of Blossoms
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Enchantress's Presence
4 Argothian Enchantress
2 Serra's Sanctum
1 Wooded Foothills
4 Windswept Heath
1 Savannah
1 Plains
11 Forest

Sideboard
1 Gaea's Touch
2 Krosan Grip
1 Garruk, Primal Hunter
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Mirri's Guile
1 Karmic Justice
1 Worship
1 Pithing Needle
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Rest in Peace
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Seal of Primordium
1 Elephant Grass

four carpets main seem awful tbh. would like to see some games, do u know if vids are online somewhere? twitch or ytb?

[Megadeus]

Yeah I'm not a fan at all of that list. So many weird choices. Carpet seems poor as a 4 of. I don't like 4 Confinement, and top? WTF?

[glowparty]

Carpet of Flowers seems good against the blue decks.
soliary confinement seems good against everything non-miracles.
Seems like you get a lot of mana with this list, so top seems good for digging.

What are the cons of these cards- or is it just a general feeling of dislike for them? Explain yourself, useless Sourcer!

[nedleeds]

and top? WTF?

Maybe they'll print a green top that's also an enchantment someday, maybe even one that doesn't tax your mana.

http://magiccards.info/scans/en/tp/130.jpg

[glowparty]

Maybe they'll print a green top that's also an enchantment someday, maybe even one that doesn't tax your mana.


See sideboard.

[simdude]

Carpet of Flowers seems good against the blue decks.
soliary confinement seems good against everything non-miracles.
Seems like you get a lot of mana with this list, so top seems good for digging.

What are the cons of these cards- or is it just a general feeling of dislike for them? Explain yourself, useless Sourcer!

Solitary confinement is the second clunkiest card in the deck right after Emrakul. Having one in your opening hand is usually a dead card for multiple turns and only turns on once you're landing Enchantresses.

Carpet of Flowers is a fine card but to run 4 means that you assume you'll see nothing but blue decks. They're dead cards against Eldrazi, Death and Taxes, and Elves. The deck already has too many 1 drops to begin with so they're also weak to Chalice and CounterTop. And what are you going to do with all that extra mana? There's still only just 1 Emrakul in the list and you have to be able to find it.

I don't even like small details like including Karmic Justice which I always found to be awkward since in my experience it was just a bad Sterling Grove.

EDIT:

See sideboard.

And that's weird to me too. Why 1 in the sideboard? Why not a 4th top in the sideboard if somehow top is better? What is the matchup you're bringing in 1 Mirri's Guile that it wouldn't have been better to have 3 maindeck instead of the tops?

[glowparty]

And that's weird to me too. Why 1 in the sideboard? Why not a 4th top in the sideboard if somehow top is better? What is the matchup you're bringing in 1 Mirri's Guile that it wouldn't have been better to have 3 maindeck instead of the tops?

Tops are better in multiples than guile, and you can make use of "all that mana" but on the draw against mana denial strategies would be one situation top is not great in. Perhaps the guile comes in there. Maybe confinement is clunky but damn is it powerful against almost everything.

[cherson]

In the very beginning I played 2 flowers main but too often it was a dead card and I simply cut it. Maybe the tournament was very blue, I didn't check it tbh.
I would like to test top because somehow I like the card advantage when confinement is in play because u can still draw a card

[Megadeus]

Carpet of Flowers seems good against the blue decks.
soliary confinement seems good against everything non-miracles.
Seems like you get a lot of mana with this list, so top seems good for digging.

What are the cons of these cards- or is it just a general feeling of dislike for them? Explain yourself, useless Sourcer!

Basically what Simdude said, but I'll elaborate my thoughts as well. Carpet as a 4 of seems egregious imo. The meta would have to be pretty heavily blue decks for me to really consider even more than 1, much less four. I can't imagine many scenarios I'd want 4. Solitary is fine, but 4 also seems excessive to me. That's more a personal preference I'd guess, but like was said, it's pretty bad early game and the more you draw the worse they get. It's a card that requires a decent amount of set up to be good. I'd rather play sphere of safety or even a gentlemens Leyline before the fourth, and probably even the third one. Again that's personal preference more than anything. As for top it just doesn't make sense because there's an enchantment substitute for it that yes is worse in multiples, but costs no mana to activate. It's just an odd omission, but with the weird side board numbers I'm somewhat led to think that maybe card availability played a factor in his seemingly nonsensical choices.

[cavalrywolfpack]

enchantress bests a 50 player outside Seattle. ESG kicked my butt:

http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=12777&d=274099&f=LE

1 Replenish
1 Sigil of the Empty Throne
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Seal of Primordium
1 Banishing Light
4 Solitary Confinement
3 Elephant Grass
4 Carpet of Flowers
4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Wild Growth
3 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Eidolon of Blossoms
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Enchantress's Presence
4 Argothian Enchantress
2 Serra's Sanctum
1 Wooded Foothills
4 Windswept Heath
1 Savannah
1 Plains
11 Forest

Sideboard
1 Gaea's Touch
2 Krosan Grip
1 Garruk, Primal Hunter
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Mirri's Guile
1 Karmic Justice
1 Worship
1 Pithing Needle
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Rest in Peace
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Seal of Primordium
1 Elephant Grass
Someone beat me to it!

Hello all! New poster here. I'm new to Legacy and I'm considering building Enchantress. I'm also conaidering using this list as a template and testing with it, perhaps building it. What are people's thoughts on this deck? What needs to be changed?

EDIT: Hmm it appears many of you have already stated your thoughts. In that case, what's a a good template list that can handle the following? My local meta is very small, so this is what I know about.
Eldrazi (if it can't beat this, I can't play it)
Mono Black Reanimator
Infect

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[The_Dingo]

Someone beat me to it!

Hello all! New poster here. I'm new to Legacy and I'm considering building Enchantress. I'm also conaidering using this list as a template and testing with it, perhaps building it. What are people's thoughts on this deck? What needs to be changed?

EDIT: Hmm it appears many of you have already stated your thoughts. In that case, what's a a good template list that can handle the following? My local meta is very small, so this is what I know about.
Eldrazi (if it can't beat this, I can't play it)
Mono Black Reanimator
Infect

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Honestly, most of the lists in the last few pages are quite solid. I guess if I had to recommend a particular list it would be...

http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=10487&d=260029&f=LE

I think this is a solid starting point to play the deck. I talked to Curtis after the event and he said that runed halo was pretty weak but other than that the main deck is rock solid. The SB needs retuning since it was designed for an Omni-tell meta before the DTT time ban.

[cavalrywolfpack]

Thank you! What's a way to budgetize the deck? This is only because I only intend to play in small, FNM-like tournaments, so this doesn't need to be at the upmost competitive state.

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[The_Dingo]

Thank you! What's a way to budgetize the deck? This is only because I only intend to play in small, FNM-like tournaments, so this doesn't need to be at the upmost competitive state.

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Enchantress is already fairly budget by legacy standards, but I suppose there are a few things that you can do to make the deck cheaper.

Karakas is an easy cut if it's not in the budget, as is the 4th serra's sanctum (replace it with a nykthos, shrine to Nyx). Fetches can be replaced by basics, although this weakens mirri's guile somewhat. Duals can be replaced with shocks without hurting the deck too badly.

If you cut down on the number of green fetches I would recommend considering a few suppression fields.

[cavalrywolfpack]

I will run the full st of Windswept Heaths. The issue is that I'm a teenager with zero access to a job but I hate Standard and already play Modern. That's why I asked about the Card Kingdom list: it's super cheap!

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[Xanthos]

Honestly, most of the lists in the last few pages are quite solid. I guess if I had to recommend a particular list it would be...

http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=10487&d=260029&f=LE

I think this is a solid starting point to play the deck. I talked to Curtis after the event and he said that runed halo was pretty weak but other than that the main deck is rock solid. The SB needs retuning since it was designed for an Omni-tell meta before the DTT time ban.

I'm new to the deck as well. Would be some suggestions to update the sideboard?

[The_Dingo]

I'm new to the deck as well. Would be some suggestions to change the sideboard? Maybe a sterling grove someplace in the main?

My most recent decklist looks something like...

4 argothian enchantress
4 enchantress’s presence
4 green suns zenith

1 emrakul
1 sigil of the empty throne
2 rest in peace
1 helm of obedience

1 exploration
4 wild growth
4 utopia sprawl

4 elephant grass
3 solitary confinement
2 suppression field

1 banishing light
2 mirri’s guile
2 sterling grove

1 dryad arbor
1 bayou
8 forest
1 karakas
1 plains
4 windswept heath
3 serra’s sanctum
1 savannah

SB
4 leyline of sanctity
1 enlightened tutor
1 rest in peace
1 suppression field
1 humility
2 journey to nowhere
1 oblivion ring
1 gaddock teeg
1 reclamation sage
1 dread of night
1 doomwake giant

This is what I plan on playing at SCG Worcester. some of the choices look like odd half measures, such as suppression field alongside helm combo, but I actually think it's just fine. I really want suppression field due to lands running rampant locally, and I've found suppression field to be one of the best cards for that MU, with plenty of utility vs other popular decks in particular miracles, DnT, and shardless (sometimes). I also decided to run the RiP/helm combo once again because lands is popular, and RiP is just fine vs goyf and DRS decks as well as random GY based strategies.

I like having access to 3 solitary confinement since I almost always play burn at least once in larger tournaments, and eldrazi have a very hard time beating that card.

And I also like having access to a 3rd win con thus the sigil of the empty throne. It's probably the weakest of the win cons in the deck, but it's the easiest to get working and you can tutor it with sterling grove.

Regarding only running 2 mirri's guile, since I only have 4 fetches guile loses some potency.

Regarding the sideboard...

I like the reclamation sage for blowing up the chalices and counterbalances which seem to be running rampant.

Gaddock Teeg is a zenith-able card vs storm and miracles postboard that demands an answer or else your opponent basically is locked out (not quite true for monastery miracles).

Humility is good vs SnT and hatebear style decks such as DnT and maverick, and also very good vs 4-color loam and elves.

I run 3 copies of suppression field in the 75 and post board vs lands, miracles, DnT, and most blade style decks you want all 3 copies of suppression field.

You want the 3 RiPs vs lands, storm, dredge, RUG delver and shardless BUG.

the 4 leyline of sanctity are for burn, storm, and decks that are going over the top with discard effects. It's decent against Liliana since it stops her -2 and ultimate which can wreck us, although I wouldn't bring leylines in if that's the only card we need to stop.

I play a single bayou maindeck to cast doomwake and dread of night in the SB vs DnT and decks that are playing disruptive creatures.

The 2 journey to nowhere are good vs DnT, 4 color loam, maverick, show and tell, and eldrazi

The singleton O ring is good vs a huge variety of decks with random permanents that need removing.

Other possibilities include replenish, pithing needle, aegis of the gods, sphere of safety, engineered plague, nevermore, swords to plowshares. I'm sure there are others that I'm not thinking of.

If you have any more questions I'd be happy to answer them.

[Megadeus]

Dingos list is a fairly solid starting point. Stock starting lists are generally:

4 Argothian Enchantress
4 Envhantress presence
4 Wild Growth
4 Utopia Sprawl
2-4 Green Sun Zenith
2-3 Solitary Confinement
4-8 Green Fetches
4-12 Basics
1-3 Duals (all green generally)
2-4 Serras Sanctum

From there you can play a bunch of different win conditions. RIp helm is nice but with RIP you lose Replenish. Emrakul is very good because it's uncountable. Sigil is solid as well. Just varies a bit at that point depending on your meta

[cavalrywolfpack]

Dumb question, but what utility does Replenish offer? I can't imagine people mainboard enchantment removal. Sideboard right?

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[The_Dingo]

Dumb question, but what utility does Replenish offer? I can't imagine people mainboard enchantment removal. Sideboard right?

Replenish lets you grind through large amounts of discard and counter magic. It really shines against decks like shardless, miracles, abrupt decay decks, and pernicious deed. There are even lines where you can throw your one mana enchantments into the maw of a chalice at one then replenish them back into play. It's worth noting that eidolon of blossoms and doomwake giant trigger whenever an enchantment enters the battlefield rather than on cast like the other enchantress effects, so replenish is a pretty nutty card with those 2 in the GY or on the battlefield. Replenish also lets you use your sterling groves as tutors very liberally.

[harbingerofthevoid]

Dumb question, but what utility does Replenish offer? I can't imagine people mainboard enchantment removal. Sideboard right?

It's not mb enchantment removal generally its Abrupt Decay, Hymn, Thoughtseize mb that nabs your needed enchantment. Post board there's Council's Judgment, Reverent Silence and others. Plus Chalice on {1} sucks but Replenish at 4 gets them all back.

[cavalrywolfpack]

So how many should I run?

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[The_Dingo]

It's not mb enchantment removal generally its Abrupt Decay, Hymn, Thoughtseize mb that nabs your needed enchantment. Post board there's Council's Judgment, Reverent Silence and others. Plus Chalice on {1} sucks but Replenish at 4 gets them all back.

Replenish doesn't do much against councils judgment, and usually the decks with reverent silence are burning wish decks that kill us the turn they cast it. But yes I agree in general that it undoes the work that abrupt decay, force of will, chalice of the void, counterbalance, hymn and thoughtseize do, while additionally recurring our own elephant grass, solitary confinement, and sacrificed sterling grove.

I would run no more than 2 replenish. While strong, it can be an exceptionally awkward card at times, especially with multiples in hand.

[cavalrywolfpack]

Enchantment (28)
1x Banishing Light
4x Elephant Grass
4x Enchantress's Presence
1x Exploration
2x Mirri's Guile
2x Rest in Peace
1x Sigil of the Empty Throne
3x Solitary Confinement
2x Sterling Grove
4x Utopia Sprawl
4x Wild Growth
Land (20)
1x Dryad Arbor
10x Forest
1x Plains
3x Serra's Sanctum
1x Temple Garden
4x Windswept Heath
Creature (5)
4x Argothian Enchantress
1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
Instant (2)
2x Swords to Plowshares
Sorcery (4)
4x Green Sun's Zenith
Artifact (1)
1x Helm of Obedience

Here's what I'm starting with. It is very similar to dingo's but with a couple meta tweaks. Thoughts?

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[Megadeus]

Enchantment (28)
1x Banishing Light
4x Elephant Grass
4x Enchantress's Presence
1x Exploration
2x Mirri's Guile
2x Rest in Peace
1x Sigil of the Empty Throne
3x Solitary Confinement
2x Sterling Grove
4x Utopia Sprawl
4x Wild Growth
Land (20)
1x Dryad Arbor
10x Forest
1x Plains
3x Serra's Sanctum
1x Temple Garden
4x Windswept Heath
Creature (5)
4x Argothian Enchantress
1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
Instant (2)
2x Swords to Plowshares
Sorcery (4)
4x Green Sun's Zenith
Artifact (1)
1x Helm of Obedience

Here's what I'm starting with. It is very similar to dingo's but with a couple meta tweaks. Thoughts?

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Pretty solid list. Not a fan of the STP in the main as they're kind of narrow in their use in this deck since the only dudes you really may care about are hate bears that are often not in the main board. I'd rather have like an e tutor and maybe a doomwake giant (another win condition and makes the death and taxes match up almost a bye)

[The_Dingo]

Enchantment (28)
1x Banishing Light
4x Elephant Grass
4x Enchantress's Presence
1x Exploration
2x Mirri's Guile
2x Rest in Peace
1x Sigil of the Empty Throne
3x Solitary Confinement
2x Sterling Grove
4x Utopia Sprawl
4x Wild Growth
Land (20)
1x Dryad Arbor
10x Forest
1x Plains
3x Serra's Sanctum
1x Temple Garden
4x Windswept Heath
Creature (5)
4x Argothian Enchantress
1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
Instant (2)
2x Swords to Plowshares
Sorcery (4)
4x Green Sun's Zenith
Artifact (1)
1x Helm of Obedience

Here's what I'm starting with. It is very similar to dingo's but with a couple meta tweaks. Thoughts?

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I agree with megadeus that stp is better as a SB slot. One of the great things about enchantress is the lack of meaningful interaction that other decks have with us. We simply don't care about most creatures, unless you are seeing things like thalia, spirit of the labyrinth and ethersworn canonist in game 1 on a regular basis. Then swords may be warranted.

If the removal is for eldrazi (you said this is popular locally) then I recommend journey to nowhere since it dodges chalice at 1 and doesn't get countered by reality smasher if you don't have a card to discard. Or maybe additional O ring effects if you value the versatility of removing a chalice or thorn of amethyst.

Still, I prefer broad stroke answers in enchantress, so doomwake giant appeals to me.

I recently tried reclamation sage as a maindeck answer to a variety of problematic permanents, notably chalice OTV, and counterbalance. But it also hits spirit and canonist, it's on color and you have 5 virtual copies because of zenith. I don't necessarily recommend rec sage since against *most* decks our best plan is to ignore out opponent and execute our own plan as fast as possible.

Hope this helps.

[Claymore1]

There's an Enchantress list Piloted by Jeremy Edwards that took 1st place on a 50 man Legacy event.
The 2nd place through 8 are:

(2nd) Shardless Bug, (3rd) 12-Post, (4th) UR Painter, (5th) Death and Taxes, (6th) Grixis Pyromancer, (7th) Nic Fit, (8th) UW Tezzeret

LANDS (20)
11 Forest
1 Plains
1 Savannah
2 Serra's Sanctum
4 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Foothills

Acceleration (8)
4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Wild Growth

Engine (13)
4 Enchantress's Presence
4 Argothian Enchantress
1 Eidolon of Blossoms
4 Green Sun's Zenith

Library Manipulation (3)
3 Sensei's Divining Top

Removal and Misc (7)
1 Replenish
1 Banishing Light
1 Seal of Primordium
4 Carpet of Flowers

Protection (7)
4 Solitary Confinement
3 Elephant Grass

Win Condition (2)
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Sigil of the Empty Throne


SIDEBOARD
1 Elephant Grass
1 Gaea's Touch
1 Garruk, Primal Hunter
1 Karmic Justice
2 Krosan Grip
1 Mirri's Guile
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Pithing Needle
1 Rest in Peace
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Seal of Primordium
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Worship

I don't quite understand the main decked Sensei's Top as opposed to the Mirri's Guile.
Also wouldn't the main decked Seal of Primordium be better of as a 2nd Oblivion Ring, Banishing Light,
or even Song of the Dryads? Which could hit cards like Iona, and lands like Rishadan Port or Dark Depths.

[The_Dingo]

There's an Enchantress list Piloted by Jeremy Edwards that took 1st place on a 50 man Legacy event.
The 2nd place through 8 are:

(2nd) Shardless Bug, (3rd) 12-Post, (4th) UR Painter, (5th) Death and Taxes, (6th) Grixis Pyromancer, (7th) Nic Fit, (8th) UW Tezzeret

LANDS (20)
11 Forest
1 Plains
1 Savannah
2 Serra's Sanctum
4 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Foothills

Acceleration (8)
4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Wild Growth

Engine (13)
4 Enchantress's Presence
4 Argothian Enchantress
1 Eidolon of Blossoms
4 Green Sun's Zenith

Library Manipulation (3)
3 Sensei's Divining Top

Removal and Misc (7)
1 Replenish
1 Banishing Light
1 Seal of Primordium
4 Carpet of Flowers

Protection (7)
4 Solitary Confinement
3 Elephant Grass

Win Condition (2)
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Sigil of the Empty Throne


SIDEBOARD
1 Elephant Grass
1 Gaea's Touch
1 Garruk, Primal Hunter
1 Karmic Justice
2 Krosan Grip
1 Mirri's Guile
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Pithing Needle
1 Rest in Peace
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Seal of Primordium
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Worship

I don't quite understand the main decked Sensei's Top as opposed to the Mirri's Guile.
Also wouldn't the main decked Seal of Primordium be better of as a 2nd Oblivion Ring, Banishing Light,
or even Song of the Dryads? Which could hit cards like Iona, and lands like Rishadan Port or Dark Depths.

It's definitely an odd ball list, and I think that a ton of choices are sub-optimal. As Nedleeds pointed out, Mirri's guile seems like a much better choice than top, yet this list has 3 tops in the main and 1 mirri's guile in the side. The SB is probably the strangest part of the deck with some seemingly nonsensical choices like Gaea's touch. What decks would you possibly want that in the SB for? The Garruk primal hunter and K grips are another odd choice, presumably for the miracles MU? But I've never really felt the need to deviate from our normal plan to beat miracles. And possibly the strangest card of the bunch is scavenging ooze.

I would like to ask the deck designer about these seemingly strange card choices.

[nedleeds]

My issues with top

1) the mana investment matters in Enchantress where you are mana hungry and want to establish inevitability on the 4th-5th turn (3rd turn on a good draw if you play Exploration ... like I do). You rarely have mana to dick around with top especially before let's say a Miracle player can get countertop online. Or a D&T player can bring ports, thalias, horses and flickerwisps to bear on your mana.

2) I want to play Stony Silence / CoS in my board vs. miracles

3) If you are using your fetches and groves (maybe tutors and GSZs also) your Guiles will give you multiple looks and multiple guiles with fetches are still fine. You can resolve the first, see what you have, if you don't like it, you shuffle, resolve Guile 2 all for no mana

4) It's an enchantment, I want the non enchantments in enchantress to either be enchatresses, find enchantresses, or win the game (the Emrakul argument)

[Freggle]

Hello everyone

I have been testing GW Opalescence + Parallax Wave

4 Opalescence
4 Parallax Wave
4 Kruphix's Insight
4 Commune with the Gods
3 Sylvan Library
4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Wild Growth
3 Stony Silence
2 Oblivion Ring
1 Leyline of Sanctity
4 Enchantress's Presence
3 Replenish

5 Forest
1 Plains
3 Savannah
4 Serra's Sanctums
4 Windswept Heath
2 Wooded Foothills

SB
3 Banishing light
4 Eidolon of Rhetoric
3 Leyline of sanctity
2 Elephant Grass
3 City of Solitude


So I've been tuning this list, and here is where it is at today. Still weak to Fast combo, and re animator. Does not roll over at all to BGx. I think with more tuning this may be the way to build. ...less set-up, and more control over the game. There are also a lot more slots to give to our bad MUs

Updated List:

4 Opalescence
4 Parallax Wave
4 Sylvan Library
4 Kruphix's Insight
2 Commune with the Gods
2 Enlightened Tutor
4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Wild Growth
3 Replenish
1 Fertile Ground
4 Enchantress's Presence
1 Starfield of Nyx
1 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Oblivion Ring

4 Serra's Sanctum
4 Windswept Heath
2 Wooded Foothills
2 Plains
2 Savannah
6 Forest

Sideboard:

4 Eidolon of Rhetoric
3 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Sphere of resistance
3 Carpet of Flowers
2 Banishing Light

...will try and stream next week.

[The_Dingo]

So I've been tuning this list, and here is where it is at today. Still weak to Fast combo, and re animator. Does not roll over at all to BGx. I think with more tuning this may be the way to build. ...less set-up, and more control over the game. There are also a lot more slots to give to our bad MUs

Updated List:

4 Opalescence
4 Parallax Wave
4 Sylvan Library
4 Kruphix's Insight
2 Commune with the Gods
2 Enlightened Tutor
4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Wild Growth
3 Replenish
1 Fertile Ground
4 Enchantress's Presence
1 Starfield of Nyx
1 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Oblivion Ring

4 Serra's Sanctum
4 Windswept Heath
2 Wooded Foothills
2 Plains
2 Savannah
6 Forest

Sideboard:

4 Eidolon of Rhetoric
3 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Sphere of resistance
3 Carpet of Flowers
2 Banishing Light

...will try and stream next week.

This is pretty far away from what I would consider the "stock" enchantress variations. Maybe you could write us up a short primer, explain common play patterns, interactions and what might make this a superior version of enchantress. How dependent are you on the opalescence parallax wave interaction? How reliable is setting up the engine with fewer engine pieces total?

[Stuart]

Interesting list, Freggle. I'd also like to hear more.

I played GW Enchantress in a side event at SCG Dallas last weekend (I've got a report up, if you're interested (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?30802-Dallas-of-the-Void-a-Classic-SCG-Weekend)). I was trying out a Newlamog, which I was happy with. It got me thinking: does it make sense to have 1-2 Ulamogs in the 75 to improve the Miracles matchup? Ramping to 10 is pretty reasonable, and consider the outcomes of casting it:
- It gets countered, but exiles stuff like Counterbalance, Jace, or Mentor. That can buy you time to win.
- It resolves, exiles some stuff, and then dies. However, killing it will probably either eat a Council's Judgment, gain you 10 life off StP (thereby buying you time), or bait a Terminus (which could clear the board of a threatening Mentor).
- It resolves, exiles stuff, and they can't answer it. Now you have a 2-turn clock.

I'd be interested in people's thoughts. I just figured playing a little bit more like 12-Post seems smart against them.

[Megadeus]

Has Emrakul not been enough for miracles?

[The_Dingo]

Interesting list, Freggle. I'd also like to hear more.

I played GW Enchantress in a side event at SCG Dallas last weekend (I've got a report up, if you're interested (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?30802-Dallas-of-the-Void-a-Classic-SCG-Weekend)). I was trying out a Newlamog, which I was happy with. It got me thinking: does it make sense to have 1-2 Ulamogs in the 75 to improve the Miracles matchup? Ramping to 10 is pretty reasonable, and consider the outcomes of casting it:
- It gets countered, but exiles stuff like Counterbalance, Jace, or Mentor. That can buy you time to win.
- It resolves, exiles some stuff, and then dies. However, killing it will probably either eat a Council's Judgment, gain you 10 life off StP (thereby buying you time), or bait a Terminus (which could clear the board of a threatening Mentor).
- It resolves, exiles stuff, and they can't answer it. Now you have a 2-turn clock.

I'd be interested in people's thoughts. I just figured playing a little bit more like 12-Post seems smart against them.

I'm not really sold on it. It doesn't really address our problematic MUs, and vs miracles I can think of quite a few cards that I'd rather have.

[Stuart]

Has Emrakul not been enough for miracles?

For me, no. I've found that I struggle through the early-to-mid game against Countertop, and am not able to get Emrakul online before something like Mentor eats me. I'm obviously not cutting Emrakul, but I thought Ulamog might be an interesting way to speed up my clock and help the matchup.

[The_Dingo]

For me, no. I've found that I struggle through the early-to-mid game against Countertop, and am not able to get Emrakul online before something like Mentor eats me. I'm obviously not cutting Emrakul, but I thought Ulamog might be an interesting way to speed up my clock and help the matchup.

If you're on the black splash I've found doomwake and dread of night to both be excellent cards vs monastery miracles. Jace and entreat can still get ya, but it makes life difficult for them.

[Freggle]

This is pretty far away from what I would consider the "stock" enchantress variations. Maybe you could write us up a short primer, explain common play patterns, interactions and what might make this a superior version of enchantress. How dependent are you on the opalescence parallax wave interaction? How reliable is setting up the engine with fewer engine pieces total?

Deck has been created in N&D here (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?30810-Developmental-GW-Opal-Wave&p=957537#post957537). Comparisons to Enchantress have not been made yet, but would likely be better in the thread.

[The_Dingo]

I went 3-2 last night with a list fairly close to the one that I posted a few days ago.

9 forest
1 plains
1 karakas
1 bayou
1 savannah
1 dryad arbor
3 serra's sanctum
4 windswept heath

4 argothian
4 zenith
4 presence

4 utopia sprawl
4 wild growth
1 exploration

4 elephant grass
3 solitary confinement
3 suppression field
2 rest in peace
1 banishing light

2 mirri's guile
1 enlightened tutor

1 emrakul
1 sigil of the empty throne
1 helm of obedience

SB
4 leyline of sanctity
2 journey to nowhere
2 surgical extraction
1 gaddock teeg
1 reclamation sage
1 doomwake giant
1 dread of night
1 humility
1 oblivion ring
1 replenish

An extra forest somehow found its way into my decklist, so I accidentally ended up with a 61 card deck. As a result my mana was excellent all night, and the extra basic was nice to have in my match vs mogg stompy.

R1 0-2 vs UR delver. I lost to a pair of very fast starts from UR. I was close to stabilizing both games but well timed countermagic took out my solitary confinement.

R2 2-0 vs Mogg Stompy. Game 1 he had 3 ball and moons, but he never had chalice OTV so I was able to establish the engine, turtle up with solitary, and eventually find the combo. Game 2 was similar. Confinement kept me alive until I could find RiP and Helm.

R3 2-0 vs DnT. Game 1 my opponent had a very fast clock but no mana disruption, so I hid behind some grass and drew cards until I assembled helm/RiP. Game 2 my opponent mulliganed to 5 and I had T2 argothian plus dread of night. It probably wasn't hopeless, but he scooped pretty shortly after that

R4 2-0 vs Naya Zoo. Both games were won by quickly turtling up behind a solitary confinement

R5 1-2 vs Mogg Stompy. Game 1 he has blood moon and 3 ball and he gets kiki-jiki and settler on line to nuke 1 land per turn, but I have an exploration and I an slowly able to develop my mana. THis game went like all the other ones that I won, engine, turtle up, assemble helm/rip. G2 he puts a goblin rabblemaster on the board on T2, then follows up with a moon on T3, and a chalice at 1 on turn 4. I had several enchantresses on board but was lacking white mana, and the turn after he casts chalice I find a utopia sprawl that would have given me white. G3 was similarly short. I have a powerful but kind of fragile hand, and he just casts goblin settler to set me back to the stone age.

[Stuart]

Nice performance, Dingo! Tough luck on the final Stompy round - Rabblemaster is a hell of a clock.

And thanks for the tips on Black. I've thought the GWB version looks strong, but hadn't considered the Dread of Night application vs Miracles. I think I'm gonna be trying to R splash for a bit (I feel like having fun with Blood Moon) but will try B after.

[The_Dingo]

Nice performance, Dingo! Tough luck on the final Stompy round - Rabblemaster is a hell of a clock.

And thanks for the tips on Black. I've thought the GWB version looks strong, but hadn't considered the Dread of Night application vs Miracles. I think I'm gonna be trying to R splash for a bit (I feel like having fun with Blood Moon) but will try B after.

I've tinkered a bit with the red splash because who doesn't want words of war and sylvan library? But I ultimately abandoned the red splash in favor of black because unfortunately there doesn't seem to be a whole lot other than words of war and blood moon. Maybe sudden demise and seal of fire are worthwhile?

[simdude]

I've tinkered a bit with the red splash because who doesn't want words of war and sylvan library? But I ultimately abandoned the red splash in favor of black because unfortunately there doesn't seem to be a whole lot other than words of war and blood moon. Maybe sudden demise and seal of fire are worthwhile?

I'll be running out a list tonight at my local fnm-level event that is testing out Nahiri the Harbinger (baring a work disaster which prevents me from going). She's way too clunky in most Legacy decks but I'm genuinely interested in trying her out in a deck which wants to run Emrakul already.

I don't currently have Words of War in the list but it's sitting in a binder if I change my mind before tonight. The big reason I want to play red right now is Blood Moon. I'm sick of Eldrazi and there's enough greedy mana bases in the local meta to take advantage of it. If I had to guess, I'm going to guess that black is still a better splash but I like to mess around with small tweaks like this because you never really know until you run it out there.

[The_Dingo]

I'll be running out a list tonight at my local fnm-level event that is testing out Nahiri the Harbinger (baring a work disaster which prevents me from going). She's way too clunky in most Legacy decks but I'm genuinely interested in trying her out in a deck which wants to run Emrakul already.

I don't currently have Words of War in the list but it's sitting in a binder if I change my mind before tonight. The big reason I want to play red right now is Blood Moon. I'm sick of Eldrazi and there's enough greedy mana bases in the local meta to take advantage of it. If I had to guess, I'm going to guess that black is still a better splash but I like to mess around with small tweaks like this because you never really know until you run it out there.

Definitely let us know how it goes. elephant grass unfortunately does not protect Nahiri so I fear that against lots of decks she will just die in the combat step.

How many blood moons do you plan on playing?

[simdude]

Definitely let us know how it goes. elephant grass unfortunately does not protect Nahiri so I fear that against lots of decks she will just die in the combat step.

How many blood moons do you plan on playing?


Yeah, the wording on elephant grass sure is unfortunate. It's possible different anti-aggro tech would be a better fit. I'm not going to go out of my way to point it out to my opponents though >_>. Totally possible it will be bad but I've built weirder decks. I plan on playing 2 Blood Moons out of the side.

[Megadeus]

Isn't there some commander enchantment that has a taxing effect or something that prevents the enchanted player from attacking you or PWs you control?

[Scott]

Isn't there some commander enchantment that has a taxing effect or something that prevents the enchanted player from attacking you or PWs you control?

You might be thinking of my frequent lifesaving 1-of, Sphere of Safety.

[simdude]

I went 3-0 to split last round tonight.

(2-0) vs Burn

Game one he opened with a Lavamancer but I had RIP down quickly. I pop sterling grove for Solitary when I'm at around 10 life and have no problem locking the board down and finishing with helm just a turn or two later. Game two starts with a leyline and I banishing light his Eidolon and make it impossible for him to win pretty quickly.

(2-0) vs Aggro Loam

We both start game 1 on a mull to 6 but my mulligan is much better. I develop a board much faster and have plenty of engine so race ahead before he concedes. Game 2 He makes winning slow because of a Teeg preventing me from Helming as I drop to 7 life while getting attacked by Confidant, Teeg, and a neutered Knight but eventually pull an O-ring for the Teeg and mill him out.

(2-0) vs Painter

In game 1 he makes a T1 painter followed by a T2 grindstone but I just flip my deck for the Emrakul trigger. He looks through it and the game continues. What's interesting is that he didn't see Nahiri because I had her in my hand at the time. He makes a Nahiri. After getting slowed down by a pyroblast on an enchanted land I eventually make my own Nahiri but mine has higher loyalty because he ticked down to exile a Sterling Grove. That gets followed up on his turn by Blood Moon and Ensnaring Bridge. Now we are both durdling a little until he finds Jaya. We continue to fight over Jaya, I banishing light her and he exiles Banishing Light. I eventually find RIP and ult Nahiri for Helm to win.

Sadly he doesn't even really get to play G2 because he mulligans to 4 and doesn't ever find anything past a single Mountain.

I loved Nahiri. She felt super powerful and very versatile. I will definitely be playing and tuning this list more. I felt like I was making good use of my sideboard and it felt good to not be groaning over Chalice at 1 by moving the curve up a bit. For specific choices I'd like to be able to play Exploration and Words of War definitely needs testing at some point.

Enchantment (28)
1x Banishing Light
4x Elephant Grass
4x Enchantress's Presence
3x Mirri's Guile
2x Rest in Peace
2x Solitary Confinement
1x Sphere of Safety
3x Sterling Grove
4x Utopia Sprawl
4x Wild Growth

Sorcery (4)
4x Green Sun's Zenith

Artifact (1)
1x Helm of Obedience

Planeswalker (1)
1x Nahiri, the Harbinger

Land (20)
7x Forest
1x Karakas
1x Plains
1x Savannah
3x Serra's Sanctum
1x Taiga
1x Verdant Catacombs
4x Windswept Heath
1x Wooded Foothills

Creature (6)
4x Argothian Enchantress
1x Eidolon of Blossoms
1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

Sideboard (15)
1x Aegis of the Gods
2x Blood Moon
1x City of Solitude
1x Gaddock Teeg
3x Leyline of Sanctity
1x Oblivion Ring
1x Replenish
1x Rest in Peace
1x Sterling Grove
2x Stony Silence
1x Worship

[forestfold]

I've tinkered a bit with the red splash because who doesn't want words of war and sylvan library? But I ultimately abandoned the red splash in favor of black because unfortunately there doesn't seem to be a whole lot other than words of war and blood moon. Maybe sudden demise and seal of fire are worthwhile?

Scald is pretty hilarious against Delver and Miracles. Pseudo-maindeck-able like Carpet of Flowers. Burning Earth is sometimes better, and expensive is not really a thing for this kind of card in the deck. Citadel of Pain could possibly be good against Lands and blue decks that only want to cast spells during your turn. Spellshock is fine once you have Confinement up, but it requires your opponent to do things. Stormbind is probably the best red enchantment that lets you discard for damage, but it is still expensive and the discard is random. At the point it matters it is probably not so much a "cost" as annoying. Witchhunt is also hilarious, but again you need Solitary Confinement or Leyline out to make it good. The best red enchantments are pretty red-intensive, or require creatures to be good. So mostly win-more for us. I've looked over gatherer so many times, and those are the stand-outs on my list of crazy stuff.

[cab0747]

(2-0) vs Painter

In game 1 he makes a T1 painter followed by a T2 grindstone but I just flip my deck for the Emrakul trigger. He looks through it and the game continues. What's interesting is that he didn't see Nahiri because I had her in my hand at the time. He makes a Nahiri. After getting slowed down by a pyroblast on an enchanted land I eventually make my own Nahiri but mine has higher loyalty because he ticked down to exile a Sterling Grove. That gets followed up on his turn by Blood Moon and Ensnaring Bridge. Now we are both durdling a little until he finds Jaya. We continue to fight over Jaya, I banishing light her and he exiles Banishing Light. I eventually find RIP and ult Nahiri for Helm to win.



I think I saw this one a stream last night.

Why would he scoop to Rip then Nahiri? Did he let the Nahiri activation resolve? Couldn't he just grindstone in response so you have nothing to find?

[simdude]

I think I saw this one a stream last night.

Why would he scoop to Rip then Nahiri? Did he let the Nahiri activation resolve? Couldn't he just grindstone in response so you have nothing to find?

When I went back and watched it I realized I could have won a turn earlier. If I used Banishing Light on the Ensnaring bridge instead of Jaya he was tapped out and couldn't grindstone. I could've just grabbed Emrakul and won there.

I'm just working through this and I'm basically an anti-judge when it comes to figuring these things out but if he grindstones in response then the library gets flipped and Emrakul trigger goes on the stack right? The Emrakul trigger resolves first and my deck is back to normal for searching.

[CptHaddock]

I'm just working through this and I'm basically an anti-judge when it comes to figuring these things out but if he grindstones in response then the library gets flipped and Emrakul trigger goes on the stack right? The Emrakul trigger resolves first and my deck is back to normal for searching.

If you have a RIP out and a grindstone activation has happened, the Emrakul trigger never goes on the stack because it never hits the graveyard and goes straight to exile because of the RIP. Unless i'm misunderstanding the situation (I haven't watched the VODs) in response to your Nahiri ultimate your opponent could have just activated grindstone exiling the remainder of your library because of RIP.

[The_Dingo]

I went 3-0 to split last round tonight.

(2-0) vs Burn

Game one he opened with a Lavamancer but I had RIP down quickly. I pop sterling grove for Solitary when I'm at around 10 life and have no problem locking the board down and finishing with helm just a turn or two later. Game two starts with a leyline and I banishing light his Eidolon and make it impossible for him to win pretty quickly.

(2-0) vs Aggro Loam

We both start game 1 on a mull to 6 but my mulligan is much better. I develop a board much faster and have plenty of engine so race ahead before he concedes. Game 2 He makes winning slow because of a Teeg preventing me from Helming as I drop to 7 life while getting attacked by Confidant, Teeg, and a neutered Knight but eventually pull an O-ring for the Teeg and mill him out.

(2-0) vs Painter

In game 1 he makes a T1 painter followed by a T2 grindstone but I just flip my deck for the Emrakul trigger. He looks through it and the game continues. What's interesting is that he didn't see Nahiri because I had her in my hand at the time. He makes a Nahiri. After getting slowed down by a pyroblast on an enchanted land I eventually make my own Nahiri but mine has higher loyalty because he ticked down to exile a Sterling Grove. That gets followed up on his turn by Blood Moon and Ensnaring Bridge. Now we are both durdling a little until he finds Jaya. We continue to fight over Jaya, I banishing light her and he exiles Banishing Light. I eventually find RIP and ult Nahiri for Helm to win.

Sadly he doesn't even really get to play G2 because he mulligans to 4 and doesn't ever find anything past a single Mountain.

I loved Nahiri. She felt super powerful and very versatile. I will definitely be playing and tuning this list more. I felt like I was making good use of my sideboard and it felt good to not be groaning over Chalice at 1 by moving the curve up a bit. For specific choices I'd like to be able to play Exploration and Words of War definitely needs testing at some point.

Enchantment (28)
1x Banishing Light
4x Elephant Grass
4x Enchantress's Presence
3x Mirri's Guile
2x Rest in Peace
2x Solitary Confinement
1x Sphere of Safety
3x Sterling Grove
4x Utopia Sprawl
4x Wild Growth

Sorcery (4)
4x Green Sun's Zenith

Artifact (1)
1x Helm of Obedience

Planeswalker (1)
1x Nahiri, the Harbinger

Land (20)
7x Forest
1x Karakas
1x Plains
1x Savannah
3x Serra's Sanctum
1x Taiga
1x Verdant Catacombs
4x Windswept Heath
1x Wooded Foothills

Creature (6)
4x Argothian Enchantress
1x Eidolon of Blossoms
1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

Sideboard (15)
1x Aegis of the Gods
2x Blood Moon
1x City of Solitude
1x Gaddock Teeg
3x Leyline of Sanctity
1x Oblivion Ring
1x Replenish
1x Rest in Peace
1x Sterling Grove
2x Stony Silence
1x Worship

Very nice. I'd be tempted to try Nahiri... if I owned any. I'm not too keen to pay the standard tax, although I think she's way more popular in modern.

I have a few questions about your SB...
1) How often do you bring in worship? It seems good vs burn, DnT and eldrazi but I'm not sure where else.
2) Did you bring in the blood moons vs aggro loam? This MU seems very challenging to me... Whats your take on it overall?
3) How good is your SB plan vs storm?

[simdude]

If you have a RIP out and a grindstone activation has happened, the Emrakul trigger never goes on the stack because it never hits the graveyard and goes straight to exile because of the RIP. Unless i'm misunderstanding the situation (I haven't watched the VODs) in response to your Nahiri ultimate your opponent could have just activated grindstone exiling the remainder of your library because of RIP.

You're right I should've seen that. I normally never play RIP out into the matchup unless I'm about to cast Helm and completely missed that when I got stuck in fancy-play-syndrome-mentality (see: missing winning the previous turn). Luckily for me that he also missed that as well.

[simdude]

Very nice. I'd be tempted to try Nahiri... if I owned any. I'm not too keen to pay the standard tax, although I think she's way more popular in modern.

I have a few questions about your SB...
1) How often do you bring in worship? It seems good vs burn, DnT and eldrazi but I'm not sure where else.
2) Did you bring in the blood moons vs aggro loam? This MU seems very challenging to me... Whats your take on it overall?
3) How good is your SB plan vs storm?

1) I bring in Worship frequently enough. It's also good against Junk, Jund, Lands, and Elves (if you can protect it but that also applies to D&T).

2) Yes, I brought in both Moons for the matchup. I think that the matchup can be good for us but we can fall really far behind if we're on the draw and they hit chalice on 1. Chalice on turn 2 is much less scary because we've either hit an acceleration piece or Mirri's Guile. I think my current configuration is much better positioned against Aggro Loam than most versions I've been playing recently. To sort of place it against I'd rather be sitting across from Aggro Loam than say Shardless.

3) This sideboard is much worse against storm than when you play black and have access to Thoughtseize. I've thought the lack of T1 interaction means maybe Aegis should be a 4th leyline again. Of course the sideboard could be tuned and you could play Cage or Surgical if you want to do more. I would probably do something like this:

+ 1 Gaddock Teeg
+ 2 Stony Silence
+ 1 Rest in Peace
+ 1 Sterling Grove
+ 3 Leyline of Sanctity
+ 1 Aegis of the Gods
- 1 Banishing Light
- 1 Sphere of Safety
- 4 Elephant Grass
- 1 Nahiri
- 1 Eidolon of Blossoms
- 1 Helm

[maCHOOga]

So I played enchantress for the first time this evening. How do you beat a resolved ugin? Other than preplay a pithing needle or have the oblivion ring waiting for after everything gets exiled...

During 5+ cards per turns is awesome! ;-D

[cherson]

you can't beat ugin :)
but basically every deck loses if he resolves.

I really hope mtg spoils a useful enchantment this time :(

[The_Dingo]

So I played enchantress for the first time this evening. How do you beat a resolved ugin? Other than preplay a pithing needle or have the oblivion ring waiting for after everything gets exiled...

During 5+ cards per turns is awesome! ;-D

I've never beaten an ugin, but O ring is probably a start.

[Megadeus]

So I played enchantress for the first time this evening. How do you beat a resolved ugin? Other than preplay a pithing needle or have the oblivion ring waiting for after everything gets exiled...

During 5+ cards per turns is awesome! ;-D

MUd and Post tend to be tough match ups because of this card. Needle is probably necessary, but nothing great. One day we'll get a W Enchantment needle right???

[cherson]

A W enchantment needle would be awesome. Or at least something useful in general. Mtg doesn't pay attention 😨

[Wotkenmendo]

Played at small local event this past Saturday, my first time running Enchantress in a tournament! I did manage to screw up a couple of things (tried to Utopia Sprawl my Karakas, forgot about Solitary) but overall was happy with my play and the deck of course is great! My list was very close to that of simdude though without the red splash. Same mana but Nykthos instead of Taiga. I also moved 3 Leylines of Sanctity and a Reclamation Sage into maindeck anticipating Storm/Miracles.


Round 1: 2-1 vs Goblins

Game 1: I'm on the play and it's a slow start for him, he concedes to Solitary Confinement.

Game 2: He uses his 2nd turn to Tear my turn 1 Wild Growth. He starts amassing guys and my lone Elephant Grass can't save me.

Game 3: We both mull to 5! I have a land, a Wild Growth, Enchantress, Enchantress' Presence, and something so life is good. His draw does not pan out so well and our engine kicks in before he can do much of anything.


Round 2: 2-0 vs Shardless

Game 1: This game lasts almost 40 minutes (opponent's pace is a bit on the slow side). We both have reasonable starts. I get a few Enchantress effects out, and he keeps pace for a while between Visions, Jace, Abrupt Decays, etc. At some point our deck kicks into overdrive and I Reclamation Sage his Baleful Strix to make way for Emrakul's lethal swing.

Game 2: I have a strong start with Leyline and Rest in Peace in the face of his Tarmogoyf, manage to win in turns (though when time was called he kindly stated he would concede if need be).


Round 3: 2-1 vs Dredge

Game 1: A somewhat early concession from him after a few turns of Elephant Grass being in play.

Game 2: I keep what is normally a solid hand despite lacking any cards relevant in the matchup. Cabal Therapy kills and chance I had, die to Flamekin Zealot.

Game 3: I open with a Leyline and it only takes a few turns for the engine to churn out Helm + RIP.


Round 4: ID


Top 4: 2-1 vs Lands (Playing against my friend Cfetchcaviar. While I know this is a good matchup for me, he is very competent and I take nothing for granted)

Game 1: Elephant Grass does its thing in the face of Stage + Depths. RIP puts an end to Loam/Ghost Quarter abuse and eventually we find Helm.

Game 2: I'm oppressed by Rishadan Ports this game and despite resolving a City of Solitude he answers next turn with Aura Fracture. Die to Marit Lage.

Game 3: I keep a hand of lands and growth effects. This turns out to be for the best I as must play through 2 Spheres of Resistance. Fortunately he doesn't get a Loam engine going and is taxed more than usual by his own Spheres. Tireless trackers squeezes through Elephant Grass a few times, but soon enough I establish double Sterling Grove into Solitary into RIP/Helm.


Finals: 2-0 vs Dredge

Game 1: He mulls to 4 but has an explosive opening regardless via LED and Breakthrough. Turn 2 I topdeck RIP.

Game 2: He mulls to 4 again! A much slower start for him this time though, and my keep is Helm, RIP, Leyline, Serra's Sanctum, and 3 green cards. It's only a few turns before we find a forest to cast RIP followed by a second Sanctum to cast and activate Helm. We win!


I was lucky to have decent matchups and draws, still quite happy with my first official outing with Enchantress. I'll probably try simdude's list with Nahiri very soon.

[simdude]

Played at small local event this past Saturday, my first time running Enchantress in a tournament! I did manage to screw up a couple of things (tried to Utopia Sprawl my Karakas, forgot about Solitary) but overall was happy with my play and the deck of course is great! My list was very close to that of simdude though without the red splash. Same mana but Nykthos instead of Taiga. I also moved 3 Leylines of Sanctity and a Reclamation Sage into maindeck anticipating Storm/Miracles.

[snip]

I was lucky to have decent matchups and draws, still quite happy with my first official outing with Enchantress. I'll probably try simdude's list with Nahiri very soon.


Congrats. A room of full of Lands, Dredge, and generally fair decks is definitely a great place to be playing Enchantress with main deck RIP and Leyline of Sanctity.

I would say that the Nahiri list continues to please me. I'm even tempted to take back what I said before about wishing I had a 2nd Blood Moon online since I'm not sure the metagame is all that great for it. I'm definitely doing better in MTGO leagues than I was before. So far I've gone 3-2 and 4-1 and will likely grind out another league tonight. I really wanna hit 5-0.

[l33twash0r]

So since Im building enchantress back should I go the RIP/Helm route or try the Replenish?

[Beerpirat]

Its ur personal choice but i prefer rip/helm because u can win games which are still lost.

[Megadeus]

RIP/Helm is really nice for certain metas where main board RIP can be devastating. Otherwise it also is great for a quick kill. I like playing a ETutor to find helm too since groves can't

[l33twash0r]

RIP/Helm is really nice for certain metas where main board RIP can be devastating. Otherwise it also is great for a quick kill. I like playing a ETutor to find helm too since groves can't

What kinda list you run if you have E.Tutors too?

[simdude]

Has anyone ever tested Elesh Norn as a sideboard card? I suspect it's worse than Doomwake Giant but I'm still really liking the red splash and I feel very soft to Elves and D&T without that black splash.

[Watersaw]

Stop me if this sounds completely idiotic, but in a weird way doesn't From Beyond do everything we want? It sucks that it costs 4 mana and (usually) does nothing the turn it comes out, but

It gives some slow ramp
It helps gum up combat on the ground (go go Elephant Grass)
It's pretty funny if you're running Humility
In case of All is Dust, you keep a handful of blockers and an enchantment
It kills as soon as you hit 17 mana. Or EoT activate at 15
If you're holding it and can generate 21 mana, you get to take an extra turn
On the off chance you need to reset your deck, you can chain draw to 7 and crack it to find a titan
You get to attack with 1/1s

Anyway, I'm going to be jamming a few copies for a while. I've been on a bit of a break from the deck and am looking to give it a spin. (note: this may actually be terrible) Who knows, if it's actually powerful we can supplement our 15 drop with Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger.

[Megadeus]

Elesh Norn is interesting, but it's not an enchantment unlike doomwake which means Sterling groves and e tutors don't find her. Also doomwake at 5 is fairly reasonable to cast with out sanctum. I think it merits testing though. I had doomwake be an MVP last night for me. I don't know a red alternative to him.

As for the eldrazi spawn thing, I don't think it's really needed. The tutor part is not overly relevant in my opinion because usually if I have the means to generate emrakul then I can probably draw through my deck fairly easily. As for the ramp, it's not irrelevant, but I don't know how necessary it is once you're already hitting 4 mana. And a single extra mana per turn is pretty slow for this deck. Again, I'd go ahead and test it but eh. And last thing, replacing emrakul for newlamog seems poor. The best reason for emrakul is the uncounterable in my eyes. Otherwise I'd rather play other win conditions like helm, words of whatever or sigil.

[The_Dingo]

Stop me if this sounds completely idiotic, but in a weird way doesn't From Beyond do everything we want? It sucks that it costs 4 mana and (usually) does nothing the turn it comes out, but

It gives some slow ramp
It helps gum up combat on the ground (go go Elephant Grass)
It's pretty funny if you're running Humility
In case of All is Dust, you keep a handful of blockers and an enchantment
It kills as soon as you hit 17 mana. Or EoT activate at 15
If you're holding it and can generate 21 mana, you get to take an extra turn
On the off chance you need to reset your deck, you can chain draw to 7 and crack it to find a titan
You get to attack with 1/1s

Anyway, I'm going to be jamming a few copies for a while. I've been on a bit of a break from the deck and am looking to give it a spin. (note: this may actually be terrible) Who knows, if it's actually powerful we can supplement our 15 drop with Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger.

This is some wild and weird technology. It seems to me that there are both better ways to ramp, generate blockers, and to tutor emrakul... but not all in the same card. Maybe the confluence of disparate abilities will be good enough.

In order to not get jammed up on expensive spells I would start cutting cards like eidolon of blossoms, replenish, sigil of the empty throne, doomwake giant etc, and really commit to making an emrakul.

[btm10]

Words of War is probably the most realistic Red alternative to Doomwake. It's expensive for that purpose, but it gives you another 'combo' (Words + Sylvan Library) that most fair decks can't realistically beat and that operates independently of the Enchantress engine while also being powerful in conjunction with it. Yes, it encourages you to run a Sylvan Library, but if you have Confinement in play and the lock is on then it typically doesn't matter.

[Watersaw]

This is some wild and weird technology. It seems to me that there are both better ways to ramp, generate blockers, and to tutor emrakul... but not all in the same card. Maybe the confluence of disparate abilities will be good enough.

In order to not get jammed up on expensive spells I would start cutting cards like eidolon of blossoms, replenish, sigil of the empty throne, doomwake giant etc, and really commit to making an emrakul.

If anything I'm tempted to splash black and jam Cadaverous Bloom or Squandered Resources to help power it out even faster, but one thing at a time. We probably sideline Suppression Field as well. Exploration might be nice.


As for the eldrazi spawn thing, I don't think it's really needed. The tutor part is not overly relevant in my opinion because usually if I have the means to generate emrakul then I can probably draw through my deck fairly easily. As for the ramp, it's not irrelevant, but I don't know how necessary it is once you're already hitting 4 mana. And a single extra mana per turn is pretty slow for this deck. Again, I'd go ahead and test it but eh. And last thing, replacing emrakul for newlamog seems poor. The best reason for emrakul is the uncounterable in my eyes. Otherwise I'd rather play other win conditions like helm, words of whatever or sigil.

I've played a few games where I have enough mana at the beginning of turn but was a bit shy of draw power to find an eldrazi. Admittedly that may be me playing a bit aggressivly and not taking enough time to set up.

And my mistake, I meant running Nulamog along side of Emrakul. I know it doesn't mean anything, but a few hands of goldfishing have me getting to 14ish mana with From Beyond and then having to wait a turn. Ulamog would allow for a weaker, more-vulnerable-to-Force of Will payoff to hit one turn earlier. Or some nonsence with Defense of the Heart if you want to live that life. At any rate, the deck may still want another kill to fall back on.

I'll try to do some actual testing at some point this week.

[Fjaulnir]

Quick question. Does anyone here play Enchantress on MTGO?

I have played the deck in paper on and off for almost 4 year (with varying success), and was considering playing some on MODO to improve my skills and just get in more reps cuz I can't really playtest every single card/setup I'd like in paper because of not enough tournaments.

But one of the things that holds me back -apart from having to sling another pile of cash at it- is the game interface, so I was wondering if that's Enchantress-friendly. With all the triggers etc, but also because of responding to your opponents with mouse clicks.

Fortunately you don't have to approve of everything your opponent does (because no blue/counterspells), what would be the best MODO setup for Enchantress? I.e. skipping which phases, auto-ceding priority etc?

[Crimhead]

^Personally I don't play Enchantress or online! I can't help you there.

I am thinking of rebuilding the deck (paper), but gradually because I'm in the house-poor these days.

I tend to like the red splash for WoW and Bloodmoon, but I'm super keen to play Doomwake Giant.

Are USprawls enough or should I throw a Bayou in (I have Bayous, so that's not an issue)? From past experience with the deck I'm inclined to run that Bayou, but it is another non-basic.
Should I even bother with :r:? WoW seems less important if Doomwake gives me removal plus a win-con (worth noting I don't plan to run Emrakul or Helm, my only other win-con would be Sigil). Should I keep that splash just for the Moon?
How many Doomwakes is a good amount, and should they go main or side?
Thanks for any tips!

[Megadeus]

I run a single black dual to fetch. But I know my friend runs two bayou because of multiple doomwake and sideboard stuff. I figure with sprawls and bayou a single doomwake plus a sideboard EPlague or two is fine

[btm10]

I've never had a problem with 5-6 fetches, 1 dual, and Sprawls for my splash fixing. I think black adds more than red as a splash right now, but I can imagine a meta where you might want Moons or Words of War or something.

[Stuart]

Are USprawls enough or should I throw a Bayou in (I have Bayous, so that's not an issue)? From past experience with the deck I'm inclined to run that Bayou, but it is another non-basic.
Should I even bother with :r:? WoW seems less important if Doomwake gives me removal plus a win-con (worth noting I don't plan to run Emrakul or Helm, my only other win-con would be Sigil). Should I keep that splash just for the Moon?


I would definitely run a Bayou. While it does make you slightly more vulnerable to Wasteland, it's shitty to have to put an early Utopia Sprawl on Black that you'd otherwise want on White or Green. (I'm on the R splash, but mana-wise I think the principle is the same as B.)

I would definitely recommend playing an Emrakul. In a deck with so few win cons it's good to have an uncounterable one, but also don't forget its shuffle trigger. Especially when you're getting used to playing Enchantress, decking yourself is a real possibility.

#

Different topic: I'm considering picking up some Earthcrafts in case the card ever gets unbanned. However, at its current price tag I'm not super thrilled about the idea of buying 4 copies of a card I might never get to play. My question is, how many do you guys think Enchantress would run if it was legal? My intuition says 2, but I'd like to hear other people's thoughts.

[Megadeus]

I would definitely run a Bayou. While it does make you slightly more vulnerable to Wasteland, it's shitty to have to put an early Utopia Sprawl on Black that you'd otherwise want on White or Green. (I'm on the R splash, but mana-wise I think the principle is the same as B.)

I would definitely recommend playing an Emrakul. In a deck with so few win cons it's good to have an uncounterable one, but also don't forget its shuffle trigger. Especially when you're getting used to playing Enchantress, decking yourself is a real possibility.

#

Different topic: I'm considering picking up some Earthcrafts in case the card ever gets unbanned. However, at its current price tag I'm not super thrilled about the idea of buying 4 copies of a card I might never get to play. My question is, how many do you guys think Enchantress would run if it was legal? My intuition says 2, but I'd like to hear other people's thoughts.
I agree. 2, maybe 3 at most. It's better than squirrel nest I'd think which would be a 1-2 of because it can produce mana. Also it would open up the possibility of main board teeg too. You can run emrakul, and nest/earthcraft as win conditions and teeg can shut down force or storm.

[The_Dingo]

^Personally I don't play Enchantress or online! I can't help you there.

I am thinking of rebuilding the deck (paper), but gradually because I'm in the house-poor these days.

I tend to like the red splash for WoW and Bloodmoon, but I'm super keen to play Doomwake Giant.

Are USprawls enough or should I throw a Bayou in (I have Bayous, so that's not an issue)? From past experience with the deck I'm inclined to run that Bayou, but it is another non-basic.
Should I even bother with :r:? WoW seems less important if Doomwake gives me removal plus a win-con (worth noting I don't plan to run Emrakul or Helm, my only other win-con would be Sigil). Should I keep that splash just for the Moon?
How many Doomwakes is a good amount, and should they go main or side?

Thanks for any tips!

1. I would recommend playing the bayou.
2. WoW can provide similar functionality to doomwake, except I am a fan of doomwake overall because he can't be turned off by revoker.
3. I think 1 doomwake is sufficient as long as you plan on playing 3-4 sterling grove to find him when you need him and to protect him when you draw him naturally.

Not playing emrakul means losing out on some late game inevitability, and it also means that your win cons become counterable. If you are dead set against pastafarianism I think 1-2 copies of replenish are needed to punch through a win con through countermagic walls, or in case sigil gets hit by Hymn or something.

[Crimhead]

I would definitely recommend playing an Emrakul. In a deck with so few win cons it's good to have an uncounterable one, but also don't forget its shuffle trigger. Especially when you're getting used to playing Enchantress, decking yourself is a real possibility.

Not playing emrakul means losing out on some late game inevitability, and it also means that your win cons become counterable. If you are dead set against pastafarianism I think 1-2 copies of replenish are needed to punch through a win con through countermagic walls, or in case sigil gets hit by Hymn or something.
I used to play this deck a few years ago. I don't recall ever decking myself, but it might have helped I was playing WoW. As a win-condition usually when I'm generating 15 mana I've got everything online and can win however I want. So I prefer to run cards that I can use before I'm that well developed.

I always liked Replenish, and that was before we got Constellation!

Here's the list I've been mulling over in my head:

Enchantments (29)
1x Banishing Light
3x Elephant Grass
4x Enchantress's Presence
2x Mirri's Guile
1x Sigil of the Empty Throne
3x Solitary Confinement
1x Sphere of Safety
4x Sterling Grove
2x Suppression Field
4x Utopia Sprawl
4x Wild Growth

Sorceries (5)
3x Green Sun's Zenith
2x Replenish

Lands (19)
1x Bayou
7x Forest
1x Karakas
3x Plains
1x Savannah
2x Serra's Sanctum
4x Windswept Heath

Creatures (7)
4x Argothian Enchantress
2x Doomwake Giant
1x Eidolon of Blossoms

Sideboard (15)
2x Banishing Light
1x Choke
1x City of Solitude
4x Leyline of Sanctity
1x Nether Void
2x Rest in Peace
2x Stony Silence
1x Suppression Field
1x Worship

[Megadeus]

I really like the upside of getting replenish and such when no RIP helm is involved. I do like what nedleeds does and run a main board City of Solitude. It's really effective against so many decks

[Fjaulnir]

Anyone knows what's up with this? :
http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=12777&d=274099&f=LE

Runs Tops instead of Guile, another event he top-8ed he did the same:
http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=11922&d=268241&f=LE

(both 45-50 players so winning and 5/8ing one isn't a small feat and he must be on to something?)

Could hardly imagine where you'd want Top instead of guile? 1 forest, guile, is often enough not to mulligan (as guile will almost always find something), but with Top you can't cast Argothian turn 2 then.
Also topdecking Guile seems better late game?


I was wondering mostly though, about the first list I listed, when would anyone board in Gaea's Touch and why is that not just Exploration or something? He has *a lot* of basic forests compared to my builds so I guess it's similar, but still seems strange. I only love exploration when going off and having 1 Green floating into Expl and then dropping a Serra's Sanctum to finish things, rather than just 1 forest for 1 green.


Krosan Grip surprises me too - are either SDTop or Batterskull that big of a problem? I guess it also kills Spirit of the Labyrinth or Revoker even with active Mom :-)
Makes some sense - he plays Tops as well, so Suppression Field / Stony Silence aren't good options against miracles here.


And err, Garruk Primal Hunter, anyone got an idea why it would be good here?

[Stuart]

Anyone knows what's up with this?

This came up a few pages back, and I think the concensus was: no. It's a weird list. That said, Top's ability to make multiple spins can be incredible, and I can see why someone might like it here. It's just that, as you said, it's too mana intensive for a deck that's really banking on using all its mana and making important plays in the early turns.

[Crimhead]

I really like the upside of getting replenish and such when no RIP helm is involved. I do like what nedleeds does and run a main board City of Solitude. It's really effective against so many decks
What would you recommend taking out?

Unrelated, has anybody thought about Throne of the High City? Seems decent with Solitary Confinement.