[Deck] Solitaire (Enchantress)

[ClearSkies]

How about Humility? or is that too slow?

(Still combining with the other anti-creature cards)

[Sevryn]

Yeah I think if you expect Reanimator at least 1 MD Lignify and the Karakas seem necessary. Really don't want to go overboard, granted the deck is a problem. Unfortunately I didn't realize it before but Exhume doesn't target so Ground Seal isn't as effective. I still think 1x Ground Seal MD might be a good call just in general. Sucks that there is no best answer for Reanimator. Wheel doesn't affect cards already in the GY, Ground Seal doesn't stop Exhume, Relic and Tormod's aren't enchantments and can't be tutored or protected by Grove, and Leyline can't be hardcast. I think Wheel might actually be the worst option since you certainly can't count on it before turn 2. That means Daze, Force, Thoughtseize, Entomb in response, or Tutor for an answer all trump you and that's almost 1/3 of their deck. Atleast with the artifacts you can drop them turn 1 before Seize and Entomb in response doesn't work and atleast with Crypt you are shielded from daze.

Agree with (exactly) one MD Groundseal. Worst case it cantrips for two mana. Best case it kills an entire angle of the other deck (shutting off Life from the Loam, for example). However, drawing two in the same game is terrible, because it is 4 mana invested to do nothing. And yes, Exhume gets around Ground Seal, but Reanimator can only run 4 Exhume, so GS is still good against them.

Diversifying the color of your removal is crucial. Most Reanimator pilots will call white due to the threat of Oblivion Ring, and it is actually important to run some number of O.Ring so that this fear is well-founded. However, running 1 Lignify MD means IF they call white, you can hopefully draw through your deck until you find it, and then drop a Confinement to end it all. The MD Karakas is pretty tech, giving you one more answer that you can draw into.

Wheel of Sun and Moon is somewhat weak against Reanimator. Perhaps it is stronger in decks that can power it out with ESG on turn 1. Game 2 being immediately reduced to "do you have force of will?" is pretty strong, I think. ESG definitely needs a spot in the deck, IMO, because it also gives Daze nightmares in addition to the stronger turn 1 plays.

[dontbiteitholmes]

Agree with (exactly) one MD Groundseal. Worst case it cantrips for two mana. Best case it kills an entire angle of the other deck (shutting off Life from the Loam, for example). However, drawing two in the same game is terrible, because it is 4 mana invested to do nothing. And yes, Exhume gets around Ground Seal, but Reanimator can only run 4 Exhume, so GS is still good against them.

Diversifying the color of your removal is crucial. Most Reanimator pilots will call white due to the threat of Oblivion Ring, and it is actually important to run some number of O.Ring so that this fear is well-founded. However, running 1 Lignify MD means IF they call white, you can hopefully draw through your deck until you find it, and then drop a Confinement to end it all. The MD Karakas is pretty tech, giving you one more answer that you can draw into.

Wheel of Sun and Moon is somewhat weak against Reanimator. Perhaps it is stronger in decks that can power it out with ESG on turn 1. Game 2 being immediately reduced to "do you have force of will?" is pretty strong, I think. ESG definitely needs a spot in the deck, IMO, because it also gives Daze nightmares in addition to the stronger turn 1 plays.

Yeah that's exactly my thoughts on Ground Seal. It hurts a lot of decks that otherwise give you big problems G1 and worst case it draws a card. It's not in there because of Reanimator specifically but it helps in that matchup as well which makes it even more relevant.

I think 4x Sterling Grove MD is also a good thing to have vs. Reanimator since you can drop the Sterling Grove then crack it when you need to and have the option of scooping Lignify or another answer depending on the situation (if they drop a creature other then Iona you might want O Ring or Moat to save your Lignify). I still say Wheel is the worst SB option. Even if you run ESG most decks only run 3 so the chances of you drawing ESG and Wheel in your opening grip is not something you can rely on. In this situation Relic or Crypt are still better since if you go 2nd you can still sneak in Crypt through Daze or Relic through Daze with ESG then ESG can really give the opponent a surprise if you active it when they see you tapped out and think it is their last chance to go off and go balls out only to see Relic break in response to Reanimation. Even Leyline once again is better since if you manage to mull into it, if you can manage to get a Sterling Grove down they are left with only Show and Tell to get a creature down and then they still have to account for you breaking the Grove to get an answer on your next turn as well as whatever you drop into play for free with Show and Tell.

[Sevryn]

I think 4x Sterling Grove MD is also a good thing to have vs. Reanimator since you can drop the Sterling Grove then crack it when you need to and have the option of scooping Lignify or another answer depending on the situation (if they drop a creature other then Iona you might want O Ring or Moat to save your Lignify). I still say Wheel is the worst SB option. Even if you run ESG most decks only run 3 so the chances of you drawing ESG and Wheel in your opening grip is not something you can rely on. In this situation Relic or Crypt are still better since if you go 2nd you can still sneak in Crypt through Daze or Relic through Daze with ESG then ESG can really give the opponent a surprise if you active it when they see you tapped out and think it is their last chance to go off and go balls out only to see Relic break in response to Reanimation. Even Leyline once again is better since if you manage to mull into it, if you can manage to get a Sterling Grove down they are left with only Show and Tell to get a creature down and then they still have to account for you breaking the Grove to get an answer on your next turn as well as whatever you drop into play for free with Show and Tell.

The only problem with Grove is that you have to drop it before Iona comes out because it doesn't matter what color they call, you aren't going to play Grove after that. I currently run 4x Grove and 1x Enlightened Tutor maindeck. I'm considering dropping to 3x Grove MD and putting the fourth in the board just to make a little bit more room for other stuff MD.

Wheel is the worst option against Reanimator. HOWEVER, it is godly in the dredge matchup and at least decent against Loam decks. It also makes you invulnerable to Painter/Stone combo decks, if those see play in your meta. It's not the bee's knees against Reanimator, but it's already in my sideboard so I bring it in. Reanimator is a tough matchup for the same reason that all of Enchantress's tough matchups are tough: they demand interaction in the first 2 turns of the game. Enchantress is just bad at this, so I'll come back to just diversifying the color of your creature removal so you never just scoop to Iona.

Since I haven't posted my decklist in a while, here is what it is in case anyone is curious:

// Lands
4 [ON] Windswept Heath
2 [9E] Plains
10 [SHM] Forest
1 [B] Taiga
2 [US] Serra's Sanctum
1 [LG] Karakas
1 [B] Savannah

// Creatures
4 [US] Argothian Enchantress
3 [AL] Elvish Spirit Guide

// Spells
4 [ON] Enchantress's Presence
3 [JU] Solitary Confinement
3 [IN] Sterling Grove
3 [VI] Elephant Grass
1 [CHK] Ghostly Prison
4 [DIS] Utopia Sprawl
2 [6E] Wild Growth

2 [ALA] Oblivion Ring
1 [LRW] Lignify
1 [OD] Karmic Justice
1 [OD] Ground Seal
1 [TE] Mirri's Guile

1 [ON] Words of War
1 [CFX] Sigil of the Empty Throne
1 [TSB] Sacred Mesa

1 [MI] Enlightened Tutor
2 [UD] Replenish


// Sideboard
SB: 1 [MI] Enlightened Tutor
SB: 1 [IN] Sterling Grove
SB: 1 [OD] Ground Seal
SB: 1 [UD] Replenish
SB: 2 [VI] City of Solitude
SB: 2 [8E] Sacred Ground
SB: 2 [6E] Warmth
SB: 1 [PLC] Seal of Primordium
SB: 2 [8E] Choke
SB: 2 [SHM] Wheel of Sun and Moon


The only comment I would really add to this is that my meta is not very blue heavy but has a fair amount of permanent sweepers, which is why I have the maindeck Karmic Justice. For most metas I would replace this with a maindeck City of Solitude.

[anonymos]

This sounds like a terrible idea to me. I think it's just because I'm thinking a lot about various options. We've got Utopia Sprawl already. Would it be possible for us to use Planar Void? I think it's honestly a terrible idea, but it'd fix the problem forcing them to get their 1 show and tell. It also only costs 1.

[Droxis]

Is there any particular reason why lotus petal was taken out of the running for acceleration? It does what ESG can do sans the hidden factor and it can pop for any color in a pinch. Makes playing more runed halo MD a bit easier. It buffs goyf, I realize, but I don't feel that is enough of a reason to warrant exclusion.

[jiazhouhuaqiao]

Lotus Petal is about as good as ESG, you yourself have noted the tradeoff: the ability to make W (or R or U) versus the ability to up Daze.

The only real argument is ESG/ Petal vs. Chrome Mox.

Enchantress is a mana hungry strategy.

I am still working on the Titania's Song/ Aura Shards/ Petal angle.

Petal is the better choice for the Squirrel angle with Nantuko Shrine...

[SpatulaOfTheAges]

The what angle?



Petal is good if you're running a lot of off-color stuff obviously. If you're not, then it's pumping Goyfs for no good reason. It's a judgement call you have to make for your particular list.

[dontbiteitholmes]

Played around with the decklist some, here's my current build.

// Lands
7 [P3] Forest
1 [LG] Karakas
2 [US] Serra's Sanctum
4 [ON] Windswept Heath
1 [R] Taiga
2 [A] Savannah
1 [ON] Wooded Foothills
2 [MM] Plains

// Creatures
4 [US] Argothian Enchantress

// Spells
1 [SHM] Runed Halo
1 [LRW] Lignify
2 [CFX] Sigil of the Empty Throne
2 [UD] Replenish
4 [IN] Sterling Grove
3 [VI] Elephant Grass
4 [ON] Enchantress's Presence
1 [LRW] Oblivion Ring
1 [ON] Words of War
4 [DIS] Utopia Sprawl
1 [CHK] Ghostly Prison
3 [JU] Solitary Confinement
1 [LG] Moat
3 [TE] Mirri's Guile
1 [OD] Ground Seal
1 [DK] Blood Moon
3 [TE] Lotus Petal

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [IA] Circle of Protection: Red
SB: 1 [WL] Aura of Silence
SB: 3 [SHM] Vexing Shusher
SB: 1 [8E] Sacred Ground
SB: 1 [OD] Karmic Justice
SB: 1 [TE] Choke
SB: 1 [MR] Rule of Law
SB: 3 [ZEN] Mindbreak Trap
SB: 1 [ALA] Relic of Progenitus
SB: 1 [DK] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 1 [SHM] Wheel of Sun and Moon

Choice explanations
4x Sterling Grove- Had it at 3 for a while but it's just too good of a card and 4 is the right number I feel. Tutor is crucial and all your enchantments having shroud is important for truely locking an opponent out of the game. I feel like if I ran 3 I would want #4 in the SB to bring in and I would end up bringing it in almost every time.
3x Lotus Petal- ESG was good, but Petal stops Daze as well just not as sneaky when it does it. Decided to go Blood Moon main making Petal the clear choice.
1x Ghostly Prison- When it's better then Elephant Grass it's better in a big way. I still feel good about this after much playtesting, Prison is super solid and doesn't require an upkeep.
1x Runed Halo- This card sits in my hand more then any other card in the deck but it's really good in certain situations and vs. certain decks.
1x Ground Seal- Ground Seal main deck is like having a gun in a bad part of town. It's better to have it and not need it then need it and not have it, and chances are sooner or later your going to need it.
1x Lignify- Needed to have a chance vs. Reanimator and hits Goyf.
1x Oblivion Ring- Hits creatures and random crap like Chalices and Counterbalance (just don't forget to cross your fingers).
2x Replenishes Total!?!?!- Yeah I had 3 before between main and side then found myself never siding in the 3rd vs. most decks. Having Shusher really cuts down on the amount of cards that end up in the GY vs. counter and if they play Deed or w/e I still have 2x Replenishes and 1x Karmic Justice to make them think twice. If a lot of people played Deed, Disk, or started siding in Traquility effects for whatever reason I would go back to 3.
3x Mirri's Guile- Many times this is just just as good as Enchantress in opening grip, especially when I run fetches. Comes down turn 1, lets me dig, works under Confinement, where's the bad part again? Seriously I can't suggest Guile enough, cut cards and run 3 and test a couple games and see how it works for you before you judge.
4x Sprawl 0x Wild Growths- Wild Growth was just not doing it for me. I cut them all and added 2 silver bullets and land #20 and really feel the deck works much better. Still have 4x Sprawls and 3x Petals giving me a boost when I need it.
1x Blood Moon- I was just looking for 1x silver bullet and I wanted the card that would affect the largest chunk of problem decks and landed on Blood Moon since it hoses basically everything and can easily shut an opponent out of the game if they are careless with their fetches once they see you are playing Solitaire. Really it could be in the SB but it's just as good game 1 vs. a lot of decks as it is G2 and G3 so it makes the MD cut.
3x Vexing Shusher SB- This card is great. Yeah I know, "But what about City of Solitude?" City of Solitude gets countered and comes down about 1/2 a turn slower. City of Solitude gets blown up by Grips and Disenchants, but what are they going to do about Shusher? They can either bring in creature hate to kill 3 cards in my deck or risk having all their counters/chalices/counterbalances become obselescent. It's a real catch 22 for most decks and really either way they choose to go you still come out on top.
1x Relic, 1x Wheel, 1x Crypt- Combined with the 1x MD Ground Seal gives me 4x cards that between the 4 deal with any possible GY problems and diversity in the sideboard has obvious strengths and weaknesses as well as possible mindgames which are never bad. Overall I think the diversity makes the SB stronger here and makes "answering my answer" just a little harder for decks that rely on GY games.
3x Mindbreak Trap- Simply put combo is by far the worst matchup. Mindbreak Trap gives me a possible out and makes the opponent have to worry about more then just permanents when comboing out forcing a combo player to be careful which leads to more time for you hopefully to make something happen on your side of the table. Over Ethersworn which slows you down too giving the opponent time to answer, Mindbreak encourages you to go balls out. The more cards you draw the more chance you have of drawing Traps and enchantments that will lock the game. Still an uphill battle but I thought long and hard, "Hmm, what card would I least like Solitaire to play if I was playing vs. it with combo?" Trap won that mental argument by a wide margain.
Every other card shouldn't need much explaination. Thoughts?
Also

@ Spatula, why do you play Sacred Mesa over Sigil #2? Seeing as how Mesa requires 2w upfront and 1w mana investment before your next upkeep and 1w every subsequent turn and Sigil costs 5 once then makes huge angel ass until you win and doesn't lose to Pithing Needle I only see a few circumstances where Mesa is the better choice and almost none of them involve it being the best card in my deck to tutor unless I'm mistaken. Is there something I'm not seeing?

@ jiazhouhuaqiao, I can't tell if you are serious are joking, but if you are serious what are you talking about? Either LOL or that sounds like a terrible deck.

[SpatulaOfTheAges]

The what now? I'm not playing Mesa OR Sigil. If I was going to play either, however, it would be Mesa, since neither one is really useful except vs. control, and Sigil still requires extra cards invested to start producing threats.

And you know what gets played a lot more than Pithing Needle? Engineered Explosives.

[Oiolosse]

@dontbiteitholmes -- great discussion on card choices, thank you for the valuable explanations.

[Pienterekaak]

I personally think 4 sterling grove is the minimum. Its a enchantment that i always want to see, especially in a pridemage heavy meta. It protects enchantments, and if nesecary it can tutor for a way out in a bad situation.
I played enchantress for a while, then i quitted magic, but i played with enchantress in madrid too, finished 118th.
This was a suboptimal list (ill post it later) but i do feel this deck has potential.

Between chrome mox and ESG i would choose ESG, mind you i didnt test both of them, but the way i see it, you only want chrome mox in your opening hand.. after that, it becomes a terrible card to draw. And in order to see it in your opening hand, you have to play alot of them, so the chance increases of drawing one later in the game. ESG gives you a explosive start (ok, not a first turn halo.. which is importand, i know), is great against daze and can be cast as a chump blocker when you are in a bad situation.

Also, a interesting idea, how about maindeck Orim's Chant
It helps against combo,
it helps against blue, making sure your replendish resolves
and it helps against aggro when using the kicker.
and chant is already in the name of the deck!

[dontbiteitholmes]

The what now? I'm not playing Mesa OR Sigil. If I was going to play either, however, it would be Mesa, since neither one is really useful except vs. control, and Sigil still requires extra cards invested to start producing threats.

And you know what gets played a lot more than Pithing Needle? Engineered Explosives.

Oh my bad that was someone else's list I saw posted and thought it was your post. I see you list back a page now, it's ummm... interesting. Then again like I said before NOVA is one of those few places where Legacy is well defined so I would only expect a list from there to be very metagamed. Would you feel comfortable taking that list to a large tournament or is that more of a meta deck and if so how would the large tourney list differ? I still can't agree with Mesa over Sigil. I've played Mesa before and was unimpressed with it compared to Sigil, and for the record Explosives hurts Mesa too and when they are using Explosives to blow up tokens its usually either to swing for the win or the last act of a desperate man. At least in my experience that holds true.

Also put me down for Chrome Mox is no good in Enchantress.

[SpatulaOfTheAges]

EE isn't CA against Mesa. It is vs. Sigil.

Also, Mesa can generate at instant speed, so your alpha strike situation seems pretty unlikely. It's a good card because against control you can ride it by itself while you fill up your hand. It's still a pretty narrow card. However, that's a role that it fills better than Sigil does.

Either way, 3x Replenish + 1 WoWar is better than 2 Replenish and a second kill condition. And anything over that is just overkill.


And I played my list at the SCG Open and felt very comfortable with it.

[Sevryn]

Sacred Mesa is an effective kill with its own unique requirements. The times when it is the best kill card are rare, however I have found myself with 2 cards in my library and my Words of War extirpated. With my 3+ enchantresses, Sigil would mill me to death because I had no way to skip draws. Mesa got there.

Mesa is also rarely tutored up as a defense mechanism. Like when your enchantresses have been countered/destroyed and you're staring down 2 Tarmogoyfs. Oblivion Ring will halve the clock. Elephant Grass will make them tap lands. Sacred Mesa makes instant-speed chump blockers and might buy you enough time to draw into more answers. Like I said, it is rare, but it does happen (at least, it's happened to me).

And also, don't forget the synergy with Serra's Sanctum. Late game, Mesa is a very quick kill.

Mesa is by no means my favorite kill, but the fact that it also functions as defense at instant speed has enough applications for me to run one copy.

[Pienterekaak]

Personally i do not play mesa anymore. my kill conditions are now 2 sigil and 1 Luminarch Ascension.
In the case i am winning, the win condition doesnt really matter (since i am winning, and i can use Ascension + confinement to keep myself from decking)
But in case of a bad situation i would almost always rather have a sigil or a ascension.
When i am faced against aggro/aggro control, my 4/4 angels from sigil can kill his creatures instead of just blocking them for a turn (i rather have 2 4/4 angels, than produce 2/3 1/1 tokens each turn, since that also denies my from playing any new enchantments)
Also, at low mana i can play my ascension to draw a card with my enchantress effects, i cannot do this with mesa (since i need to maintain mesa)

Furthermore, in experience.. tutoring mesa for defence only occured once (while i still played it, which was long) in alot of games. And i only won a few games on mesa, but that was becouse it was the first kill i saw that game. And i did not want to draw the card when i only had a few mana, since its a dead card in your hand unless you have atleast 6 mana avalible.

[SpatulaOfTheAges]

If you're winning, you want something that will turn a draw into a win if it's game three and time is called. Words of War is the only card that does this effectively.

The only reason to play another kill condition is if it doubles in a defensive role. Technically both Sigil and Mesa can do this. However, Sigil only does a particularly good job at this if you have an Enchantress out, because otherwise, you're dealing in a very limited resource (enchantments in hand). I advocate a decklist that should rarely lose once you have untapped with an Enchantress turn 3. Therefore, I don't see any benefit from playing Sigil.

I would only run an extra kill condition/defense card if it served me when I don't have an Enchantress. That would only happen with very bad hands/mulliganing (in which case you should lose anyway, most of the time), or against a deck running disruption. If they're running black disruption, both Sigil and Mesa are too mana hungry to do you much good most of the time vs Wasteland, Sinkhole and Hymn. And in any case, Replenish is better. Against blue disruption, I prefer the card that will function more as a stand alone threat. Mesa requires no investment besides mana, which is a larger resource pool than cards and mana, which is what Sigil requires. If I play Sigil and they use an Engineered Explosives to kill 3 angels, that's 3 cards they took from me. If I topdeck an Enchantress or a Replenish, not having those enchantments to play is going to make it harder to regain any lost board position. But again, Replenish is better than either here.

[dontbiteitholmes]

If you're winning, you want something that will turn a draw into a win if it's game three and time is called. Words of War is the only card that does this effectively.

The only reason to play another kill condition is if it doubles in a defensive role. Technically both Sigil and Mesa can do this. However, Sigil only does a particularly good job at this if you have an Enchantress out, because otherwise, you're dealing in a very limited resource (enchantments in hand). I advocate a decklist that should rarely lose once you have untapped with an Enchantress turn 3. Therefore, I don't see any benefit from playing Sigil.

I would only run an extra kill condition/defense card if it served me when I don't have an Enchantress. That would only happen with very bad hands/mulliganing (in which case you should lose anyway, most of the time), or against a deck running disruption. If they're running black disruption, both Sigil and Mesa are too mana hungry to do you much good most of the time vs Wasteland, Sinkhole and Hymn. And in any case, Replenish is better. Against blue disruption, I prefer the card that will function more as a stand alone threat. Mesa requires no investment besides mana, which is a larger resource pool than cards and mana, which is what Sigil requires. If I play Sigil and they use an Engineered Explosives to kill 3 angels, that's 3 cards they took from me. If I topdeck an Enchantress or a Replenish, not having those enchantments to play is going to make it harder to regain any lost board position. But again, Replenish is better than either here.

That's exactly what I'm saying though, Sigil wins me games when I don't have the draw engine online and that's why I like it so much. Really Guile helps a lot though, I don't think Sigil would work as well for me if I didn't run Guile. Once a Sigil is out I expect atleast one angel a turn and dropping 4/4s onto the board every turn, especially when they are accompanied by enchantments that make winning harder for my opponent, is something that not many decks are prepared for. Countering enchantments with Sigil out doesn't stop Angels. Explosives can be bad times but at the same time if they are using it to kill angel tokens that means they are not using it to kill enchantments. I'm not saying it's the only way to make the deck, but Sigil has shined in my playtesting and I don't feel comfortable personally running Enchantress when one unlucky opening and my only win condition is getting countered/Thoughtsiezed then Crypted into oblivion (yes I know you can play around counters and by the time Words is getting dropped it shouldn't matter, but I like to have plan B ready to roll when things don't go as planned and since Magic has an element of chance that happens from time to time).

My personal play style works well with the deck in it's current configuration because I tend to play it more like a control deck then a combo deck. At the same time if you play it as more of a combo deck that can certainly be just as strong seeing as how most of the combo hate people play is more aimed at Storm or GY combos and the decklist/sideboard can certainly be tweaked to answer pretty much anything in a well defined meta. Yeah it certainly would suck to lose 3 angels if you dropped every enchantment in your hand to get them, but at the same time you have to consider the way I see it is what other card would have been better to draw in the majority of matchups then Sigil? I mean I don't have time every game to wait until I draw into Enchantress to play stuff. I run 3x Guiles and 4x Groves as well as 8 cards that slow/stop attacks (Moat, 3x Grass, 1x Prison, 3x Confinement), Lignify, O. Ring, Runed Halo, Ground Seal cantraps and Blood Moon vs. a deck running EE could hurt so I have to assume if I drop 3 enchantments with Sigil out, aside from getting angel tokens, I'm also advancing my agenda. Then you have to consider if having my tokens get EE is a worst case scenario I could be doing a lot worse, because getting other permanents exploded also sucks. Seriously though Guile definitely has made Sigil work much better for me since most of the time it almost ensures I'll be playing atleast one enchantment a turn for a while.

That's the way I see it atleast, we can throw out hypothetical situations all day about why one card is better then another but results are what counts. I've had very good results with my version in testing so far and obviously you have had success with your decklist, so I'd have to say there is no wrong answer here just two different views on how to make the deck. When things don't go smoothly Sigil can really turn the tables in a serious way and it has the proven potential to win games when I can't make enchantress's stick and that's basically why I play it.

[jiazhouhuaqiao]

In every case that you pop your Sterling Grove (except in reponse to it's targeted destruction) early to tutor, you are much better off with Enlightened Tutor. They have the same effect but Tutor saves you G1. When you need to tutor early go with Enlightened Tutor. Sterling Grove shrouds your enchantments and draws cards from enchantress effects but using it for the tutor effect is really suboptimal compared to Enlightened Tutor. The tutor is almost always getting you something you need anyway, the only time that Sterling Grove is better is if the Grove is what you are tutoring *for*.

In other words, Sterling Grove #1, #2, #3, then Enlightened Tutors #1, #2, #3 and #4 before Sterling Grove #4.

I am trying out Titania's Song as a Humility for artifacts. Since it's coming into play as a creature, post- Titania's Song petals trigger Aura Shards, turning into 0 casting cost Disenchants.

[dontbiteitholmes]

In every case that you pop your Sterling Grove (except in reponse to it's targeted destruction) early to tutor, you are much better off with Enlightened Tutor. They have the same effect but Tutor saves you G1. When you need to tutor early go with Enlightened Tutor. Sterling Grove shrouds your enchantments and draws cards from enchantress effects but using it for the tutor effect is really suboptimal compared to Enlightened Tutor. The tutor is almost always getting you something you need anyway, the only time that Sterling Grove is better is if the Grove is what you are tutoring *for*.

In other words, Sterling Grove #1, #2, #3, then Enlightened Tutors #1, #2, #3 and #4 before Sterling Grove #4.

I am trying out Titania's Song as a Humility for artifacts. Since it's coming into play as a creature, post- Titania's Song petals trigger Aura Shards, turning into 0 casting cost Disenchants.

I don't get it. What artifacts are you so worried about that you run Titania's Song? Why are you running Aura Shards too? That sounds really bad, you are basically playing a 3 card combo to disenchant. If artifacts and enchantments are that much of a problem there are at least 4 better cards to deal with them of the top of my head, first of which is Aura of Silence which aside from being an enchantment also Disenchants on command and makes all opponents enchantments and artifacts harder to play. Also really I can't think of any artifact that is that big of a problem that wouldn't die to Titiana's Song alone (EE, Chalice, and 0cc mana producers in combo decks) and the artifacts that aren't really a problem might become one if you turn them into creatures instead of just blowing them up. Still, aside from EE already in play Aura of Silence is the better card by far in any situation I can think of. Am I missing something?

[SpatulaOfTheAges]

Aura doesn't make EE harder to play, although Justice is still probably better than Titania's Song.

Although I agree that a fourth Grove seems excessive. I've at times ran 3 Grove in the MD and 4 Tutor in the board, but that's the farthest I'd go with tutor effects.

[Pienterekaak]

personally i wouldnt go below 4 grove.. but then agian, i am in a pridemage heavy meta, and you always want a sterling grove there (2 would be even better)

[wcm8]

I tried using Mirri's Guile, but I found that in general I'd rather have a Sylvan library out. Sylvan lets you keep the cards if you really need them, and as has been said before combos well with WoWar. In fact, sometimes in the first game when your opponent doesn't have too much anti-enchantment, you can drop a War early and gradually kill them, instead of having to set up the entire Confinement lock to finish them. Guile seems to only be great when it's in your opening hand, and running 4 to up the chances of that seem like a waste of slots.

I have been having great success with running 3 Lotus Petals/1 ESG instead of wild growth. The growths are okay for the drawing and acceleration, but mid-late game you'd rather be drawing lock cards. Early on, the explosiveness of the Petal/ESG lets you get your engine online fast or protect a hard cast from Daze, whereas with growth you'll typically have to wait a turn. Having Argothian out on the first turn is key against a lot of decks. I feel that Petal is sometimes more useful than ESG because there are times when you want red or white and don't have a Sprawl or Taiga out.

I have also been testing 1 Blood Moon maindeck. Sometimes getting this out early will win you game 1, so I think it's worth the inclusion. Kind of like how Moat can totally wreck certain aggro decks, the Moon can be incredibly problematic for a lot of the format. It can slow the Enchantress player down too, but the deck needs multiple turns to win anyways. Having several "auto-win" cards maindeck for the meta is important towards getting game 1 victory, as games 2 and 3 can be rough for the Enchantress player.

Also, FWIW I run 4 Grove and never mind drawing them. 1 is moderate protection, 2 is complete, and 3/4 can tutor you the game lock. Most decks don't run Rev. Silence or Tranquility type things maindeck, so drawing them consistently is important.

[grahf]

I tried using Mirri's Guile, but I found that in general I'd rather have a Sylvan library out. Sylvan lets you keep the cards if you really need them, and as has been said before combos well with WoWar. In fact, sometimes in the first game when your opponent doesn't have too much anti-enchantment, you can drop a War early and gradually kill them, instead of having to set up the entire Confinement lock to finish them. Guile seems to only be great when it's in your opening hand, and running 4 to up the chances of that seem like a waste of slots.

Sylvan Library vs Mirri's Guile comes up every couple of months in this thread, and I don't think one side is going to convince the other. Guile costs less and still functions under Confinement, that matters to me. Also, and this could be a difference in playstyle, I don't usually drop WoWar until I'm ready to win next turn. The Sylvan+WoWar plan costs 2-3 mana at an inopportune time (your draw step), and as you say yourself, is best when you aren't under heavy pressure, in which case, why do you need it? Just combo out and win. Extra Guiles are not dead just like extra Elephant Grasses are not dead, they read, G: draw cards equal to the number of Enchantresses in play. Whether you're accelerating in the midgame or on your combo turn, having low-cc enchantments that draw tons of cards is just good.


I have been having great success with running 3 Lotus Petals/1 ESG instead of wild growth. The growths are okay for the drawing and acceleration, but mid-late game you'd rather be drawing lock cards. Early on, the explosiveness of the Petal/ESG lets you get your engine online fast or protect a hard cast from Daze, whereas with growth you'll typically have to wait a turn. Having Argothian out on the first turn is key against a lot of decks. I feel that Petal is sometimes more useful than ESG because there are times when you want red or white and don't have a Sprawl or Taiga out.

The idea of splitting ESG/Petal seems decent, I might try 2/2 and see how it goes, but instead of Wild Growth!? Definitely in addition to two Wild Growths for me. Also, what situations do you need red and white more than green? Not in the Daze protection plan. Not when casting an Argothian first turn. Perhaps if you have lots of WW cards in your list like Runed Halo or Moat, then I could see it.


I have also been testing 1 Blood Moon maindeck. Sometimes getting this out early will win you game 1, so I think it's worth the inclusion. Kind of like how Moat can totally wreck certain aggro decks, the Moon can be incredibly problematic for a lot of the format. It can slow the Enchantress player down too, but the deck needs multiple turns to win anyways. Having several "auto-win" cards maindeck for the meta is important towards getting game 1 victory, as games 2 and 3 can be rough for the Enchantress player.

I've lost games because Blood Moon turned off my Serra's Sanctum. I think it's a meta call to run the Moon maindeck, and it might be the right meta call for you, but I think If I was going to play manabase hate maindeck, I'd rather have Choke.

[Sevryn]

Don't forget that Guile can come down turn 1. Entering play that early is very powerful, and is magnified by however many fetchlands and other shuffle effects you are running. Library CAN come down turn 2, but it is more likely you are dropping an engine piece at that point.

[dontbiteitholmes]

I tried using Mirri's Guile, but I found that in general I'd rather have a Sylvan library out. Sylvan lets you keep the cards if you really need them, and as has been said before combos well with WoWar. In fact, sometimes in the first game when your opponent doesn't have too much anti-enchantment, you can drop a War early and gradually kill them, instead of having to set up the entire Confinement lock to finish them. Guile seems to only be great when it's in your opening hand, and running 4 to up the chances of that seem like a waste of slots.

I have been having great success with running 3 Lotus Petals/1 ESG instead of wild growth. The growths are okay for the drawing and acceleration, but mid-late game you'd rather be drawing lock cards. Early on, the explosiveness of the Petal/ESG lets you get your engine online fast or protect a hard cast from Daze, whereas with growth you'll typically have to wait a turn. Having Argothian out on the first turn is key against a lot of decks. I feel that Petal is sometimes more useful than ESG because there are times when you want red or white and don't have a Sprawl or Taiga out.

I have also been testing 1 Blood Moon maindeck. Sometimes getting this out early will win you game 1, so I think it's worth the inclusion. Kind of like how Moat can totally wreck certain aggro decks, the Moon can be incredibly problematic for a lot of the format. It can slow the Enchantress player down too, but the deck needs multiple turns to win anyways. Having several "auto-win" cards maindeck for the meta is important towards getting game 1 victory, as games 2 and 3 can be rough for the Enchantress player.

Also, FWIW I run 4 Grove and never mind drawing them. 1 is moderate protection, 2 is complete, and 3/4 can tutor you the game lock. Most decks don't run Rev. Silence or Tranquility type things maindeck, so drawing them consistently is important.

Guile drops on turn 1 reliably, Library has to wait for turn 2. Turn 2 I want to play Enchantresses. Chances are I have either a Guile, an Enchantress, or a Presence and a mana accelerator in my opening hand or I'm planning on mulling. That's my only problem with Library is that it costs 1 mana too much, otherwise it's usually the better card as you have the option of picking up extra cards if you really need them and has slight synergy with WoW. I wouldn't run 4 Guiles since the effect only gets better with multiples if you have a shuffle effect ready and even then only slightly. I think 3 is the right number for my purposes. I'm using Guile as a component to dig for Enchantresses and answers and because it makes it easier to keep hands without Enchantresses since Guile + Fetchland = me seeing 6 cards by draw phase of turn 3. I think if you run Library you should look at it more as a replacement for Enchantresses you didn't draw early game. It gives you the draw if you need it but as far as early game digging power it comes down about 7/10ths of a turn later than Guile average I'd guesstimate so instead of seeing more cards earlier when you start with it in your opening grip you get raw drawing power if you need it (and can afford the life loss). Library costing 2 also becomes an issue after SB in my experience, since most of the good sideboard cards that need to be played early have cmc of 2. I used to play Library, then I played a mix, now I just play Guile. It works well for me but there are many great ways to build Enchantress and they all play differently and far be it from me to say, "OMG, Library sucks, play Guile." Especially without running test games with your specific build card for card (which I'm not going to do because it'd distract me from my build).


The only real difference to Petal over ESG is fueling Goyf and the "Gotcha" effect ESG has with Daze and maybe breaking Grove or avoiding Counterbalance to a lesser extent. If you need Petal, run it but if 95% of the time ESG does the trick I'd just go with that. It really has a lot to do with what build you are running obviously and changing even 4 cards between MD and SB could change which is the better choice for you, so I don't think anyone's ever going to be able to give a definitive answer on that.

Of course Enchantress is a really complex deck. What I mean by that is, not only is it one of the most mentally taxing decks to play in Legacy, but every little thing you do to tweak the decklist makes the deck play differently. Guile and Library seem like very similar cards but swapping one for the other and the whole decision tree, from mulligan/keep, to your turn 1~2 play completely changes. Same thing with Petal/ESG to a lesser extent, and of course which silver bullets you decide to MD, 3x vs 4x Grove, SB choices, pretty much every little thing makes a big difference since you see more of your deck in most games on average then any other Legacy deck.

On a related note I hate that it's called Solitaire since what the opponent does often has an incredible amount to do with how I play, if any deck should have been called Solitaire it should have been Solidarity. It's like, oh fun, I get to watch you combo out for 10 minutes and every card you play requires you to do a calculus problem before you decide what the right move is. So glad that deck has passed its prime. Not only was it boring to play against, but it was basically an auto-loss for Enchantress.


Aura doesn't make EE harder to play, although Justice is still probably better than Titania's Song.

Although I agree that a fourth Grove seems excessive. I've at times ran 3 Grove in the MD and 4 Tutor in the board, but that's the farthest I'd go with tutor effects.

Am I missing something? Aura of Silence on the board makes EE cost 2 more to play and they have to be ready to break it as soon as it comes out or risk having you sac Aura to destroy it. So if they want to set it to 1 they have to have 5 mana ready and it just gets harder from there. Karmic Justice is also good vs EE but anyways I was just comparing Titania's Song with other cards that deal with problem artifacts and just using Aura as an example of a better card and EE as the special case exception where Song is better. Or am I mistaken and you were referring to Aura Shards from another post and not responding to me? I's still trying to figure out why he was running Titania's Song and Aura Shards instead of just taking all those out and replacing them with Aura of Silence or similar answers and skipping what seems like a convoluted combo where the net result is a few disenchants. I can't imagine a meta where that would be a good call. Even if everyone played Stax and Enchantress mirror, Aura of Silence would still be better so I'm really curious what he is so worried about.

I ran 3x Grove for a while and had Grove #4 in my sideboard. I almost always end up bringing in Grove #4 in G2 and I decided to either put Karmic Justice or a Grove in the MD and cut a card I found subpar in testing. Grove just seemed like the better choice since a lot more people run targeted removal like Pridemage MD to deal with Counterbalance than things like Deed or EE (and EE only takes out one layer of enchantments at a time), not to mention Grove is at worst a tutor when Justice at worst is an empty vessel. If the meta was such that I thought there was going to be a lot of Deeds and Explosives I would push Grove #4 to the SB and bring in Justice MD or Replenish.

[SpatulaOfTheAges]

My understanding is that Sunburst would count the mana used to pay for Aura. So they announce x=0, pay 2 mana of 2 colors, and it doesn't change their play at all unless they wanted to blow it for 1 or 2 (only relevant vs. tokens).


I'd like to add also that the past few pages have just been stellar in terms of people rationally discussing various card choices and the pros and cons.

[Julian23]

My understanding is that Sunburst would count the mana used to pay for Aura. So they announce x=0, pay 2 mana of 2 colors, and it doesn't change their play at all unless they wanted to blow it for 1 or 2 (only relevant vs. tokens).

Confirmed. Aura doesn't harm EE at all.

[dontbiteitholmes]

My understanding is that Sunburst would count the mana used to pay for Aura. So they announce x=0, pay 2 mana of 2 colors, and it doesn't change their play at all unless they wanted to blow it for 1 or 2 (only relevant vs. tokens).


I'd like to add also that the past few pages have just been stellar in terms of people rationally discussing various card choices and the pros and cons.

Ah, okay fair enough. I forgot the extra counted towards sunburst, I just started playing again after a 3 year break and I'm still a little shaky on some of the rules.

[Carabas]

If your opponent has less than 2 colorless sources, Aura will stop EE from being played at 0. Just got this confirmed from multiple judges on the askthejudge IRC.

[SpatulaOfTheAges]

That's true, but how often will that come up? Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge advocate of Aura. But it's not super relevant vs. EE.

[wcm8]

Played in a 20-some person tournament today, got 3rd place. The other top 3 were Aluren, Zoo, and the winner was a somewhat unusual mono-black deck that ran a lot of hand and creature hate, finishing with cabal coffers/staff of domination. I was somewhat lucky with my matchups, avoiding facing any ANT/other combo and first round I was against a Dredge deck that never quite got its engine going. That said, I think Enchantress has a pretty fair chance against most of the meta game.

Nothing about my deck was too unusual, however I did run 2 Lotus Petals maindeck -- I was able to get first turn Enchantress a couple games thanks to them. I'm not too sure if they are better than ESG or Chrome Mox, but I think running a little acceleration can really be a boon in some games. I also ran a single Runed Halo main deck that saved my ass a couple of times. I also had a CoP:Green in the sideboard which turned out to be really great -- it shuts off half of Zoo, Thresh, Terravore, etc... I think this is definitely a worthwhile addition, if a bit unorthodox. I also did not use any Mirri's Guile or Sylvan Library, and there really wasn't a match where I missed them. I don't think these are really necessary for Enchantress to do well -- if your hand sucks, just mulligan. I actually won a game after mulling down to 5.

I'm thinking that I may want to run 3 Replenish main instead of just 2 in the future. They really help against any deck running counters, which can be a big part of the meta. Graveyard hate from my opponents really hurt, and is at least one of the reasons I lost to the MBC deck in the final 4 -- there were no enchantments to replenish!

Overall, it's a fun deck to play and can do well in a typical metagame, and I don't claim to be a great player either.

[grahf]

I also did not use any Mirri's Guile or Sylvan Library, and there really wasn't a match where I missed them. I don't think these are really necessary for Enchantress to do well -- if your hand sucks, just mulligan. I actually won a game after mulling down to 5.

It's kinda funny... We can argue about which is better, and how many, but in the end I agree the answer is "zero." Once you start drawing 3+ cards a turn, who cares what order they come in? The best argument in favor of Guile is the extra digging power possible in the early game in combination with fetches, but you are probably right, if your opening seven didn't have an Enchantress effect, that hand probably should have been mulliganed. And, I worry that running 3 Guiles, to try to see them earlier, would fill up very crucial and tight deck space.


I'm thinking that I may want to run 3 Replenish main instead of just 2 in the future. They really help against any deck running counters, which can be a big part of the meta. Graveyard hate from my opponents really hurt, and is at least one of the reasons I lost to the MBC deck in the final 4 -- there were no enchantments to replenish!

Back before Replenish was unbanned, the deck ran Holistic Wisdom in its place. Looking at the card again, I see that it could provide some degree of instant-speed graveyard protection. Worth a look again perhaps? (one-of in the sideboard of course) Or you could cast Wheel of Sun and Moon on yourself. I'm actually curious, does anybody ever do this to prevent decking themselves? Having 5+ enchantresses on the board and not quite enough mana to skip all your draws, or just no WoWar on the table, can get kinda hairy sometimes.


Overall, it's a fun deck to play and can do well in a typical metagame, and I don't claim to be a great player either.

Good to hear, I might take it to a local tourney later this month.

Also, I wanted to say something about win conditions. Several people's arguments over the last few pages advocating Sacred Mesa convinced me to put it back into my build, and a situation came up already where it was better than Sigil - just in a goldfish. Tons of mana, but low on cards in hand due to supporting an earlier Confinement. I Replenished the Mesa and a bunch of other stuff into play, had enough mana to start making like 8 pegasi a turn immediately... but it would have taken several turns to find enough enchantments to do much of anything with Sigil or WoWar (I'm running one of each right now, btw). So, my conclusion is that each is better at winning in different situations. WoWar is for when you can set up the skip-10-draws combo turn, Sigil is for when you can drop it relatively early and slow-roll, and Mesa is for those sticky situations when you have lots of mana but few enchantress effects or cards in hand. Maybe this is all very obvious, but I've been playing this deck quietly for a couple years and I'm still learning little things about how to play it in certain situations. It has also become apparent that people have different philosophies about how to play the deck, which aren't immediately apparent from looking at one's decklist, and I think this has caused misunderstandings.

EDIT: since apparently I like listening (reading?) myself rant, and I'm actually going to take this to a local store event, instead of just annoying my friends in multiplayer games, I thought I'd post my current list for criticism:

12 Forest
2 Plains
2 Windswept Heath
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Savannah
1 Taiga
2 Serra's Sanctum
3 Elvish Spirit Guide
1 Lotus Petal

4 Argothian Enchantress
4 Enchantress' Presence
4 Utopia Sprawl
2 Wild Growth
4 Sterling Grove
3 Elephant Grass
3 Solitary Confinement
1 Ghostly Prison
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Runed Halo
1 City of Solitude
1 Ground Seal
1 Gaea's Touch

1 Words of War
1 Sacred Mesa
1 Sigil of the Empty Throne
2 Replenish

sideboard so far:
2 Wheel of Sun and Moon
2 Ground Seal
1 Seal of Primordium
1 Choke
1 COP:Red
1 COP:Green
2 Runed Halo
1 Aura of Silence
1 Karmic Justice
1 Rule of Law
1 Sphere of Law
1 Cleansing Meditation

Comments:
It seems that Gaea's Touch has fallen out of favor of late, and I can see why as it doesn't do a whole lot, and so I'm considering that an open slot... maybe it should just be another Wild Growth. Or maybe not. I like at least 6 sprawl/growth to maximize seeing them early. I should still try a build with 3 Mirri's Guile before I dismiss the idea, but I don't have them right now. I respect the opinion of dontbiteitholmes, who I think was the one advocating it. You probably have a lot more experience with the deck than me.

The sideboard is unfinished, it's just what I could throw together based on various people's ideas... I'm thinking, more Chokes, more Cities of Solitude, and that Sphere of Law should be Warmth. I should mention the expected metagame... I have no idea really. But it will be a small tournament (probably 10-15 people), and the store just started running Legacy events, this will be their second. Based on results from the last one, I'm guessing countertop, merfolk, landstill, possibly zoo or aggroloam, and very maybe the mirror (hence the cleansing meditation).

[jiazhouhuaqiao]

I don't get it. What artifacts are you so worried about that you run Titania's Song? Why are you running Aura Shards too? That sounds really bad, you are basically playing a 3 card combo to disenchant. If artifacts and enchantments are that much of a problem there are at least 4 better cards to deal with them of the top of my head, first of which is Aura of Silence which aside from being an enchantment also Disenchants on command and makes all opponents enchantments and artifacts harder to play. Also really I can't think of any artifact that is that big of a problem that wouldn't die to Titiana's Song alone (EE, Chalice, and 0cc mana producers in combo decks) and the artifacts that aren't really a problem might become one if you turn them into creatures instead of just blowing them up. Still, aside from EE already in play Aura of Silence is the better card by far in any situation I can think of. Am I missing something?

Titania's Song is just really powerful. I hate the 4 casting cost but permanently turning off an entire, very popular card *type* that you can tutor for is just too versatile for me to pass up. I run Enchantress more as a silver bullet toolbox rather than the Confinement combo.

Aura Shards is just a card that's been in my maindeck for years that I'm just always, always happy to see. I've brought it to discussion before, the criticism was that it requires a combo. I think that's a valid criticism, but I have my own criticism of Aura of Silence.

First, I hate Aura of Silence's WW casting cost even more than 4 casting cost. W mana is at a premium in my deck. I could be casting an extra white spell with the mana from Aura of Silence. Second, the 2 mana tax doesn't STOP anything. Third, a single Disenchant is just a single Disenchant. At that point Runed Halo is doing what Aura of Silence is doing for you, for 1 mana less and 10 times more versatile.

I don't mind in any bit running a combo for Aura Shards, especially since it seems a majority of Enchantress decks are using creature tokens as the primary win condition anyway (Sigil, Mesa).

For me, the biggest questions in Enchantress are Exploration and/ or Gaea's Touch- 0, 1, 2 or 4 copies?

You need some acceleration, and Enchantress's glaring structural weakness is that it needs to generate way too much mana to win compared to other decks in Legacy. But acceleration is in the form of Petal/ Mox/ ESG/ Wild Growth, at this point Exploration and Gaea's Touch cannot replace primary acceleration. Exploration is rarely an optimal turn 1 play. Gaea's Touch is rarely an optimal turn 2 play. Once you have Enchantress effects out, both are roughly of the same value. Exploration: 1 casting cost- great! Gaea's Touch: pseudo 0 casting cost- great, and you can break it to beat Daze.

Thus the choice becomes:
a. Exploration with its value as a suboptimal turn 1 play
b. Gaea's Touch with its value as a mana efficient Enchantress trigger with some added metagame value against Fish
c. A 3+ casting cost enchantment with more board impact but no impact on turn 1
d. Root Maze with an enhanced value as an asymmetrical turn 1 on the play play

[anonymos]

I just got home from a 6-2-1 finish at Indy. I've got a 930 am exam. I'll post my list and talk about what I saw afterward. I'm kind of sad, nobody actually let me kill them any games. :(

[grahf]

Incoming continuance of verbal diarrhea.


For me, the biggest questions in Enchantress are Exploration and/ or Gaea's Touch- 0, 1, 2 or 4 copies?

OK, let's talk about acceleration. I was just addressing this in my edit, saying that I was looking at cutting Gaea's Touch, after finding it underperforming and noticing that nobody else seemed to be playing it. I don't own Explorations so I can't speak much about how they actually work. But with Touch, it's value is inversely proportional to the size of the white splash. In a hypothetical enchantress build that is very nearly mono-green, it will certainly make a lot of extra land drops. But when only half the mana base is forests, I get maybe a couple extra land drops a game, and that's in games that I would have won anyway because I'm vomiting enchantments all over the table and drawing 2/3rds of my deck. It's not a terrible card... I just don't think it does enough. You play it and it does... probably nothing. Hopefully draws you cards, yes, but your whole deck does that. If you find a forest, then it has more than a zero-sum investment. And the mana cost is awkward too - can't play it turn 1, turn 2 I want to drop an Enchantress effect, and by turn 3 I'd rather be putting up some defense.

About Aura Shards - If it works for you, great, but color me skeptical. It seems to me that by the time the Enchantress player is dumping tokens on the board, they're about to win, and very few artifact/enchantments pose a serious impediment to by that time. Deed and EE, sure... but we have Karmic Justice for those.

It comes down to this - I don't like conditional cards in the maindeck. I've removed manabase hate and enhantment/artifact removal from the maindeck for this reason. My only generic problem solver card is Oblivion Ring. This is a difference of deck philosophy - If you draw the wrong silver bullets, you'll lose. But the raw engine will always work, provided you have an Enchantress on the table. I would not characterize most lists in this thread as "Confinement Combo" focused*, rather as a bare minimum of protection necssary to live long enough to get the engine up and running. Spatula's posts kinda showed me the light as regards to keeping the mana curve as low as possible, and focusing on the WoWar kill. And if I'm not mistaken, he finished higher than any other Enchantress player at SCG Richmond, so that's saying something about his approach and knowledge.

*historical note: If the deck were actually that focused on maintaining Confinement, it would still run Squee. See the first few pages of this thread, it was never a very good idea. Or there was Nassif's Confinement Loam from GP Lille, which ran Loam and Forbid, and utterly died shortly thereafter when Grip was printed.


anonymos - Congrats on the nice finish. I think people just see the writing on the wall and cut their losses; and to be fair it can take a fair bit of effort on the Enchantress' pilot's part to actually produce the win sometimes.

[SpatulaOfTheAges]

re: Gaea's Touch; it's still possible to accelerate into a turn 2 Presence with Touch. Turn 2 Touch into a basic forest and pop it.



The arguments against it are that it doesn't really do anything on its own, which is completely true. However, you need to be able to just go apeshit with this deck when you have Enchantresses out, or I don't really know how you win. Ground Seal and Gaea's Touch are both a large part of that for me.

But again, I play it pretty straight as a Confinement/WoWar combo deck, not as a silver bullet style control deck.

[wcm8]

deck list



I think you may want to reconsider your mana base. Not sure if your place allows proxies, but if you are going to stick with G/W you might want to try to get another savannah or two, as well as maybe two more green fetch lands. You might want to drop a couple forests for plains, because there will be games when you need white mana early on (especially post-sideboard, a lot of the silver bullets tend to be white). You could also cut the lands down to 20 and replace the other slots with Wild Growth.

Also consider putting in Karakas. At worst, its a non-fetchable Plains. At best, it can bounce annoying permanents like Iona, Jitte, Urborg, or even save Sanctum or itself from Wasteland/Armageddon.

I am now a strong advocate for 4 elephant grass. This is the card that will give you a better fighting chance against fast aggro like Zoo, which you are bound to run into. It also helps a LOT against Dredge. I like Ghostly Prison as a permanent effect, but whether you keep it or not you will need those 4 Grass in my opinion.

I personally would cut Sacred Mesa. The way I see it, if you're in the position to win, you'd rather get the other kill conditions out. If you're in need of defense, there are much better cards to lay out to stall the opponent. There are generally other cards I'd be playing than an early-game Mesa.

A singleton gaea's touch is pretty useless... I'd use that slot for something more protective. Maybe another Oblivion Ring?

I like 3 replenish maindeck, because it can either get you out of a jam from discard/counterspells, or flip your moderately good board position into a winning one.

Obviously Moat would be a nice addition, but I myself haven't yet plopped down the cash for one. Most of the Legacy tournaments around here are non-sanctioned and allow proxies.

Your sideboard seems pretty solid. Maybe find a spot for one more Aura of Silence. One card that I'm considering adding to mine is Ivory Mask. It shuts down a lot of decks without the upkeep of Solitary Confinement. Burn, discard, combo, basically anything saying "target player" (including edicts).. Seems like a great inclusion to me.

Lignify is also an option if you think you might be seeing Iona.

[The_Red_Panda]

*historical note: If the deck were actually that focused on maintaining Confinement, it would still run Squee. See the first few pages of this thread, it was never a very good idea.



This is untrue. Squee was not cut because the deck was moving away from confinement, but rather because the deck was moving away from useless dead draws. Confinement is an integral part of the deck that allows it to buy enough time to 'go off' with WoW, as you said. 'Maintaining' in this case is a semantically fuzzy word. The deck very much wants to 'maintain' confinement, it just wants to win under said confinement in short order, as more and more decks are now packing Kgrip and other enchantment removal. That being said, you should not underestimate a 'maintained' confinement's ability to buy you turns, especially if there are one (or more) sterling groves on the table with it.

[Opax]

Done a small 30-person tournament yesterday. A belcher kills me the turn before top8. By the way i was testing an unstable version of the deck.

I'll like to know what do you think about it:

here is the list:

6 fetch
2 savannah
1 tropical
1 taiga
1 plains
2 sanctum
7 forest

8 enchantress
3 solitary
3 grove
3 Elephant grass
2 mirri guile
1 ghostly prison
1 oblivion
1 lignify
1 aura of silence
1 WoWar
3 ESG
4 sprawl
3 wild growth
2 replenish
1 in the eye of chaos
3 Copy enchantment

Side:

3 susher
2 canonist
1 rule of law
1 runed halo
2 E tutor
1 Cop: red
1 sacred ground
1 karmic justice
1 ground seal
1 suppression field
1 sterling grove

I paid a lot the cutting of the 3rd sideboarded replenish for a suppression field.

Copy enchantment works good it can give you what you need atm but it force you to have a more instable manabase.
Ii arranged at 5th turn 6 draw effect, 2 early grove vs bant while i was playing only 3 MD and a triple haloo vs ant.

By the way what do you think about ??


About the other discussion arguing in this day i'll give my opinion:

@ sacred mesa: according to me mesa is the stronger finisher after sigil ad word. it gives you good blocker to slow down your opponent. But i've cutted it. no room.

@ grove: i usually play 3 Md and side in the 4th in the second match for a wild growth. I never noticed any problem in 1st match for enchantments hate.

@Mirri: i play 2. i don't have the third so i'm not thinking of test the 3rd in. i think is a very stong card. And according to me mirri lets to take down a confinement before you have a good draw engine on the board.you simply need an enchantress mirri and some shuffling effect for go on under confinemnt.

@ about ESG/mox/petal: I'm afun of the ESG. Perhapls playing the 4th color was a better choice to run petal. but i find a lot of time ESG more useful than simply mana accelerator. I find myself a lot of time in late game to cast them as blocker or finisher O_ò. And having an istant manasource if you not play city of solitude its very sinergic with grove/ susher and of course as dazefu**er.

@ About mana accelerator i think 10 card for acceleretor is enought. i usually play 4 sprawl-3 growth and 3 ESG. but i'm thinking to move to 4-2-4 or 3-3-4.
- Exploration is not a openng hand accelerator. exploration is the card that let you to go on when you are combing out. it let you to take down sanctuary even if you have just taken down land. if you want to play fast and to kill your opponent the same turn you have started to draw a lot you had to play it( and probably a crossroads will be needed too).
- Gea's touch is a powerful accelerator. it's turn 2 drop. true, don't let you to take down an enchantress 2nd turn is not really true. An hand with 2 forest, 1 sanctuary, 1 gea, 1 arghotian, 1 presence and a wild growth can cast 2 enchantress at the 2nd turn( drawing a card too)

Hope you will find my riflession interesting.

sorry for my bad english

and let me know what do you think about copy enchantment.

Thank you for your time

P.S.


Also consider putting in Karakas. At worst, its a non-fetchable Plains. At best, it can bounce annoying permanents like Iona, Jitte, Urborg, or even save Sanctum or itself from Wasteland/Armageddon.

:cry: Karakas has been reworded, you can bounce only legendary creature: so Iona, gaddok, marit lage and vendilion.

[stu55]

Played in a 20-some person tournament today, got 3rd place. The other top 3 were Aluren, Zoo, and the winner was a somewhat unusual mono-black deck that ran a lot of hand and creature hate, finishing with cabal coffers/staff of domination. I was somewhat lucky with my matchups, avoiding facing any ANT/other combo and first round I was against a Dredge deck that never quite got its engine going. That said, I think Enchantress has a pretty fair chance against most of the meta game.

Nothing about my deck was too unusual, however I did run 2 Lotus Petals maindeck -- I was able to get first turn Enchantress a couple games thanks to them. I'm not too sure if they are better than ESG or Chrome Mox, but I think running a little acceleration can really be a boon in some games. I also ran a single Runed Halo main deck that saved my ass a couple of times. I also had a CoP:Green in the sideboard which turned out to be really great -- it shuts off half of Zoo, Thresh, Terravore, etc... I think this is definitely a worthwhile addition, if a bit unorthodox. I also did not use any Mirri's Guile or Sylvan Library, and there really wasn't a match where I missed them. I don't think these are really necessary for Enchantress to do well -- if your hand sucks, just mulligan. I actually won a game after mulling down to 5.

I'm thinking that I may want to run 3 Replenish main instead of just 2 in the future. They really help against any deck running counters, which can be a big part of the meta. Graveyard hate from my opponents really hurt, and is at least one of the reasons I lost to the MBC deck in the final 4 -- there were no enchantments to replenish!

Overall, it's a fun deck to play and can do well in a typical metagame, and I don't claim to be a great player either.



That zoo player was damn good looking too...haha, I really liked your deck, and when we tested after our match, I def. think that Enchantress is a good choice for such a random meta

[grahf]

Thanks for the input wcm8. From the top:


I think you may want to reconsider your mana base.

I'm aware the manabase is suboptimal. Two more Heaths, maybe a Foothills, and another Savannah are on the buylist. In testing it hasn't mattered much, but I could see that it might in tough situations. Careful use of Utopia Sprawl has done well to fix mana, but if those got blown up... yeah, trouble. I'll acknowledge that getting is a WW problem with, and I've resisted adding too many WW cards to the maindeck for that reason. Not sure if I'll be able to get the lands before the tourney or not.


You could also cut the lands down to 20 and replace the other slots with Wild Growth.

Eh? Hmm... what do you know, counting is tech. Thought I had it at 20 already.


Also consider putting in Karakas.

I see the benefits (against Iona) but I don't own one... working on that.


I am now a strong advocate for 4 elephant grass. This is the card that will give you a better fighting chance against fast aggro like Zoo, which you are bound to run into. It also helps a LOT against Dredge. I like Ghostly Prison as a permanent effect, but whether you keep it or not you will need those 4 Grass in my opinion.

Agreed. I think I'll sideboard the Prison.


I personally would cut Sacred Mesa. The way I see it, if you're in the position to win, you'd rather get the other kill conditions out. If you're in need of defense, there are much better cards to lay out to stall the opponent. There are generally other cards I'd be playing than an early-game Mesa.

I'm on the fence with the Mesa. I actually had just added it back in. My theory is that it will shine when I have lots of mana but not the engine up and running... Eh, needs moar testing and all that. I wouldn't want to play Mesa early game, but I suppose it's possible to do so with


A singleton gaea's touch is pretty useless... I'd use that slot for something more protective. Maybe another Oblivion Ring?

Yeah... I had two for a while. Now it just feels lonely. It's either go back to two, or cut altogether. Also needs moar testing. This is one of those points where, depending on whether you see the deck as MWC with a draw engine, or WoWar combo kill, it would affect the number of Touch to play.


Obviously Moat would be a nice addition, but I myself haven't yet plopped down the cash for one. Most of the Legacy tournaments around here are non-sanctioned and allow proxies.

That's interesting, lucky for you. I'm pretty sure the event will be non-proxy, though. To be honest I don't feel the lack of Moat to be a problem.


Your sideboard seems pretty solid. Maybe find a spot for one more Aura of Silence.

Cool, I'll stop worrying about it then. What about Blood Moon in there?


Lignify is also an option if you think you might be seeing Iona.

I don't expect to see Iona. But if I can find space in the list it wouldn't hurt, just in case.

I do appreciate the history lesson, Red Panda:

Squee was not cut because the deck was moving away from confinement, but rather because the deck was moving away from useless dead draws. Confinement is an integral part of the deck that allows it to buy enough time to 'go off' with WoW, as you said. 'Maintaining' in this case is a semantically fuzzy word.
I wasn't really around back then, I was just reading old bits of the thread. And what I said, I phrased poorly. Of course I agree that Confinement is crucial to the deck. What I was trying to say was that hiding behind Confinement and doing little else, making plays like "return Squee, discard Squee, go" are bad, were bad then and are even worse now due to KGrip, because the Confinement lock is not the focus of the deck, the WoWar kill is.

BTW, if anybody knows where to find videos online of people playing Enchantress, I would appreciate it, because I really think various people are approaching the deck differently. Spatula's list appears to be way different than what the rest of us are working on, for instance.

[wcm8]

That zoo player was damn good looking too...haha, I really liked your deck, and when we tested after our match, I def. think that Enchantress is a good choice for such a random meta

Haha, what up Stu. (For those not in the know, Stu was the Zoo player who split first with the MBC deck in this tourney. He was also the only deck I lost to in the first couple rounds.)

As he said, we played a few more for fun after he 2-0'd me and were waiting for the next round, and I actually was able to pull out some consistent wins (why couldn't those have been the real games, lol). I think Enchantress has somewhere near a 50% chance going against Zoo, but unfortunately there isn't too much your sideboard can do to "hate it out". I guess there is the possibility of siding in some more creature control with Ghostly Prison or CoP:Green, and kill their burn with either CoP:Red or Ivory Mask. It's a tough match for sure, and since Zoo punishes bad draws (which we can certainly get with Enchantress), there is definitely going to be some luck involved.

[wcm8]

:cry: Karakas has been reworded, you can bounce only legendary creature: so Iona, gaddok, marit lage and vendilion.

Just noticed this, and good to know. I still think it's worth the inclusion, even though its use is more narrow than I thought. Plus, there's probably bound to be more Legacy-worthy creatures printed in the future, so I think it's a decent investment.

[anonymos]

Here's my list from The Indy 5k.

4 Argothian Enchantress
4 Enchantress's Presence
4 Elephant Grass
4 Wild Growth
4 Utopia Sprawl
1 Mirri's Guile
1 Lignify
1 Seal of Primordium
3 Solitary Confinement
2 Sigil of the Empty Throne
2 Replenish
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Moat
4 Sterling Grove
1 Words of War
1 Blood Moon

4 Windswept Heath
3 Savannah
2 Serra's Sanctum
1 Plateau
3 Plains
9 Forest

Sideboard

3 Carpet of Flowers
2 Wheel of Sun and Moon
2 Runed Halo
1 Seal of Cleansing
1 Karmic Justice
1 Lignify
1 COP: Red
1 Solitary Confinement
1 Choke
1 Replenish
1 Humility

Odd choices that I made that stand out.

Blood Moon in the main deck. Honestly, everyone always comments on how we are "immune" to wasteland, so I have been playing around with it a little bit. It hurts so many decks that I like it. I had tested Choke in this spot and was unhappy with it, because people can still fetch their lands to use once. I stopped that.

Lignify in the main deck. Helps get that turn or so that we need against zoo. It is also nice having a main deck answer to an early Iona set to white. That is the main reason it's here. It saved me in round 3 vs. Reanimator for that very reason. I keep an O. Ring main to threaten an answer either way.

Seal of Primordium in the main deck. I don't play this deck the way Spatula does. I play it as control. I like having some form of answer main deck because of this.

The Plateau. Everyone I've shown this list to laughs at it. I'm sure you did too as you are reading this. I only play 3 Plains in the deck. I have 5 nonbasic white sources beyond that. I like having access to my white pretty much on demand. I don't want to run an extra Savannah or an extra Plains because it would mess up my basic Forest count. I have only had a couple times in total where it has been an issue. Had it been a Taiga yesterday I don't think I would have honestly noticed the difference.

Thoughts on my sideboard

Carpet of Flowers is frickin amazing. I know everyone else says it, but it's true. Swap these in for Wild Growth in ANY match where they have islands except 43 land IF you play Blood Moon.

Solitary Confinement is there to help against aggro to make sure I can hide in my bubble if needed. I actually use them as an odd form of Orim's Chant when I play the deck, so having a 4th one available for aggro matches is really nice.

COP: Red and Humility were my underperformers for the day. I know that there are matchups where I want them, especially the Humility. If I could go back to change my sideboard for this event, they would become another Blood Moon and another Choke.

Wheel of Sun and Moon is amazing against the new version of 43 Land. It was everywhere in the top 100ish decks Sunday. This card along with Blood Moon pretty much shut them off. It takes a herculean effort on their part to deal with them so they can Mindslaver lock you when you can get both.

If you guys want, I can give a round by round analysis and such with how I boarded. I'll give my matches and results now though.

R1 - Armageddon Stax - 1-1-1 - I won game 2 after triple geddon game 1. We started game 3 with about 6 minutes left in the round.
R2 - Merfolk - 2-0 - Game 1 he scoops to turn 6 Moat. Game 2 I start pumping out angels on turn 4ish.
R3 - Reanimator - 2-1 - He scooped game 1 when I got Sigil down and he couldn't race it with Archangel. Game 2 was close. Game 3 he scooped when I played double Sigil as time was called.
R4 - Landstill - 0-2 - He literally had a counter in hand for EVERY Enchantress Effect and Replenish I played. I kept a poor hand g1 as well because I was mentally off after winning round 3.
R5 - Countertop Progenitus - 2-0 - He was manascrewed hard g1. Only reason I had a clue what to board was from a top played and a Progenitus discarded. Game 2 I found out he was playing a work in progress when he used Polymorph.
R6 - 43 Land (Red)- 2-0 - G1 Blood Moon stole the show about turn 10. He scooped after cause the match can go long sometimes. G2 he saw 2 fetches and that was it. He had 3 K. Grips in hand when I got double Grove, double enchantress, sigil and confinement on board.
R7 - The Angry Fish Whiner - 2-0 - Do I need to remind you guys how good we are against fish? He got paired down and whined and pouted the whole time about having to play against someone playing something as bad as enchantress. He was still whining about it in round 9. He was playing with Tarmogoyf AND Trinket Mage main deck.
R8 - Landstill - 1-2 - G1 I got stuck under Scepter Chant. G2 I got him with Blood Moon on turn 2. G3 I played Runed Halo turn 3 with double Enchantress's Presence in hand set to Chant. I figure that I need some hard answer on board to stop it or I lose. He plays Meddling Mage for Enchantress's Presence on his turn. I draw 1 Argothian and a bunch of lands the rest of the game. Mage gets it done for him.
R9 - 43 Land (Blue) - 2-0 - G1 Blood Moon. G2 Blood Moon w/ Wheel. We had both been in the X-1-1 and X-2-1 bracket sitting next to one another all night chatting. He asked if I had a different deck in my bag to play against his deck for the round instead because he knew I ran Blood Moon main.

[dontbiteitholmes]

Yeah well, you are going to need some amount of luck vs. any deck and that's the nature of MTG. I don't think COP:Green is the answer though. First off if anyone posts a decklist without Moat I think they should specify if they cut it because they can't afford it or because they don't think it belongs in the deck. I used to run Ivory Mask a long time ago in the SB (this was 3+ years ago and the game was much different). Its casting cost is prohibitive but it shuts down Burn and most combo decks. I think now adays Runed Halo/COP:Red does a better job filling Ivory Mask's role but if you had serious concerns about Burn it could go in.

Enchantress is a great deck in that it's very strong to take to a large tournament because you know there will be a lot of aggro decks and that is your bread and butter, but Enchantress can really get out of hand at small tournaments. The more you understand the meta, you really have a lot of power to put in relevant hate cards to deal with just about anything.

I think Enchantress has a really good game vs. Merfolk no matter how you build it. Depending on which direction you go you get a better game vs. UGw tempo if you are more controlling and a better game vs. Zoo if you are more combo orriented in my experience. Another thing I'd like to say is I see some people go overboard in the SB vs. Aggro. For the most part the deck is already strong vs. Aggro and adding a couple cards might help, but really you need to deal with the real problem matchups in the SB like combo, atleast that's the way I see it. Either that or you can make a deck that absolutely wrecks aggro 100% and not bring in anything for combo and hope for the best in the pairings (really the combo matchup is only going to be so good no matter what you do). If you know noone is going to play combo or you don't get paired vs. combo you should be all but assured a Top 8 with a decent Enchantress deck. I feel like Enchantress is the most underrated deck right now. It has atleast a 50/50 vs. the top 3 most relevant decks as I see them Merfolk/Zoo/and UGw and what more can you ask for? Of course its biggest weaknesses are
1: It's MUCH MUCH harder to play than any deck except maybe ANT. With that said ANT usually ends in a max of 4-5 turns where you will easily play 45 mins. of every other round.
2: Play mistakes are much more damning and you have to make more important choices per game average then any deck.
3: Going to time is a real concern.

I don't see Enchantress ever becoming a deck to beat because of the extreme demand it puts on player skill and it's very small margin of error. You are definitely going to be given more chances to bury yourself with Enchantress than any other deck out there and you have to be able to stay sharp for inhuman amounts of time. ANT makes hard descisions but then it either wins or loses and you have 25 mins. to scout/take a shit/get a snack. It's not uncommon when I played Enchantress that as soon as I finished a match I'd barely have time to deside my deck before I'd have to be showing up for my next match. There's a lot of things you can't easily quantify when it comes to long games like that. For example, Enchantress decks draw a lot of attention at big events. I remember beating one guy in a crucial game 3 then noticing that about 50 people were crowded around the table shitting a brick because I had about 30 permanents in play and 2 cards in my library. I got to scout for about 30 mins. total that whole day and I can assure you that by the time it cut to top 8 everyone in the building knew what I was playing. Not to mention that as the day goes on you get mentally exhausted. I think mental exhaustion has lost me more games of tournament magic than mana screw.

[anonymos]

I feel like Enchantress is the most underrated deck right now. It has atleast a 50/50 vs. the top 3 most relevant decks as I see them Merfolk/Zoo/and UGw and what more can you ask for? Of course its biggest weaknesses are
1: It's MUCH MUCH harder to play than any deck except maybe ANT. With that said ANT usually ends in a max of 4-5 turns where you will easily play 45 mins. of every other round.
2: Play mistakes are much more damning and you have to make more important choices per game average then any deck.
3: Going to time is a real concern.

It's not uncommon when I played Enchantress that as soon as I finished a match I'd barely have time to deside my deck before I'd have to be showing up for my next match. There's a lot of things you can't easily quantify when it comes to long games like that. For example, Enchantress decks draw a lot of attention at big events. I remember beating one guy in a crucial game 3 then noticing that about 50 people were crowded around the table shitting a brick because I had about 30 permanents in play and 2 cards in my library. I got to scout for about 30 mins. total that whole day and I can assure you that by the time it cut to top 8 everyone in the building knew what I was playing. Not to mention that as the day goes on you get mentally exhausted. I think mental exhaustion has lost me more games of tournament magic than mana screw.

I have to agree with a lot of what you said there. I kind of just threw my hand to the wind for ANT and Belcher for the day and just had a pair of Halo's for them. It is weird to me, but the only real antiaggro cards I have in my board are the confinement, humility and the lignify. The last of the three isn't even there for aggro exactly, but it good against them too while helping the match it was included for (reanimator).

In my 9 rounds Sunday, I only had 2 go to time. The one that was a draw, and the reanimator match. I think both of my landstill matches would've gone close to time if not to time had I not been blown out at some point in each.

[wcm8]

Yeah well, you are going to need some amount of luck vs. any deck and that's the nature of MTG....

...Runed Halo/COP:Red does a better job filling Ivory Mask's role...

1: It's MUCH MUCH harder to play than any deck except maybe ANT. With that said ANT usually ends in a max of 4-5 turns where you will easily play 45 mins. of every other round.
2: Play mistakes are much more damning and you have to make more important choices per game average then any deck.
3: Going to time is a real concern.

I don't see Enchantress ever becoming a deck to beat because of the extreme demand it puts on player skill and it's very small margin of error... I think mental exhaustion has lost me more games of tournament magic than mana screw.

All very good points that I'd agree with. I have felt at times like I've gotten in over myself playing Enchantress, and should just dumb it down and play Zoo or whatever.

Regarding Ivory Mask, for me it would be more for decks running stuff like Thoughtseize, Duress, Hymn, or Chainer's/Diabolic Edicts. If they take out your draw engine, they take out your chances of winning. I admit that siding one card in isn't going to help much, because even if you do draw it, there's a good shot they'll discard it before you can play it. But MAYBE, just maybe you'll be able to get a game where you land a growth T1, tutor for it t2 with it being safely on top of your library, and then land it T3. You've effectively cut off the nastiest parts of this matchup and should be able to recover if they haven't disrupted you too much. If you're hoping to stall behind Solitary Confinement, it's not going to last for long without an Enchantress out while they get to develop their board.

It's a meta call, but if you expect to see MBC, it seems worth at least considering.

[dontbiteitholmes]

All very good points that I'd agree with. I have felt at times like I've gotten in over myself playing Enchantress, and should just dumb it down and play Zoo or whatever.

Regarding Ivory Mask, for me it would be more for decks running stuff like Thoughtseize, Duress, Hymn, or Chainer's/Diabolic Edicts. If they take out your draw engine, they take out your chances of winning. I admit that siding one card in isn't going to help much, because even if you do draw it, there's a good shot they'll discard it before you can play it. But MAYBE, just maybe you'll be able to get a game where you land a growth T1, tutor for it t2 with it being safely on top of your library, and then land it T3. You've effectively cut off the nastiest parts of this matchup and should be able to recover if they haven't disrupted you too much. If you're hoping to stall behind Solitary Confinement, it's not going to last for long without an Enchantress out while they get to develop their board.

It's a meta call, but if you expect to see MBC, it seems worth at least considering.

I'm going to have to kind of disagree. First, yes, Ivory Mask is worth bringing in vs. those decks if you run it. Second and more importantly no, Ivory Mask is the 2nd best option vs. any given threat. For combo Runed Halo is better, for Burn COP:Red is better, for Black based decks of any sort Compost is better. Ivory Mask is good, but really it's just too expensive at 4 when there are better options. If you get to 4 mana vs. monoblack you are in a pretty decent spot usually since there are several cards that will completely turn the game around at that point and on a related note Replenish #4 would be a better Sb card at that point.

[wcm8]

Interesting option with Compost, I may have to consider it.

I run 4 Replenish MD/SB, but I think a lot of savvy players know that siding in GY hate is somewhat effective vs. Enchantress.

[anonymos]

a lot of savvy players know that siding in GY hate is somewhat effective vs. Enchantress.


Honestly, I don't really use my graveyard that much. I tend to make fun of people for boarding in GY hate. The only time my stuff dies is if I'm dead or they play a mass sweeper (deed, EE, disk). When I see them coming there is usually some form of Karmic Justice involved and they learn to not sweep again. Replenish for me is only really important against discard and long games with counters involved. I tend to think that they bring in GY hate because they have that much wasted space in dead draws from our lack of creatures.

[dontbiteitholmes]

Yeah, personally if people board in GY hate vs. me I kind of think they are not very good at Magic. The only exception would be if they are playing Deed in which case Karmic Justice is the best answer obviously. Luckily Deed is pretty weak now adays and you aren't likely to see it in any tournament, especially in the later rounds if you are in the winners bracket. If you think Pridemage and Grip are bad for Enchantress, imagine how it feels to be relying on Deed to win games, ouch.

Here's another sideboard card to think about, Null Chamber. I used 1x in the SB back in the day. Of course then it was usually naming Anarchy, shows how much the game has changed in the past 4 years. Luckily one thing hasn't changed, Enchantress is still a kick ass deck. Now adays I would bring it in vs. combo. Vs. Beltcher it would name Burning Wish (or maybe Beltcher itself in a pinch) and Vs. ANT it would name Reverent Silence. Of course either way the purpose is the same, stopping Reverent Silence. This card is the worst thing that could happen to you once you drop a protection card and a Grove. Another alternative would be running Gaddock Teegs. Vs. combo you really don't need Moat at all and Teeg shuts down Beltcher/Empty the Warrens/Ill Gotten Gains/Ad Nauseum/Tendrils/ and of course the most dreaded Reverent Silence. I would at least consider one or the other, Reverent Silence is way too good vs. us.

[SpatulaOfTheAges]

Teeg is an interesting option. Being able to shut down EE is also useful. On the other hand, I've kind of decided on the side of the "screw the combo match up" mentality for myself, which limits his usefulness.

[jiazhouhuaqiao]

Boseiju can force through a Replenish against counterspells. Could be worth it since you win when Replenish resolves.

Of course the flip side is that anything with Islands also has Wastelands.

[HAVE HEART]

Boseiju can force through a Replenish against counterspells. Could be worth it since you win when Replenish resolves.

Of course the flip side is that anything with Islands also has Wastelands.

Usually not. Only tempo decks do, but those do not have Counterbalance, therefore do not have a limitless supply of counters. Counterbalance + Wasteland are generally not used together. Dreadstill is the only deck that I can think of that does.

[dontbiteitholmes]

Vexing Shusher in side is much better than Boseiju. Shusher works on every spell in your deck and doesn't cost 2 life.

[wcm8]

I feel like City of Solitude is a lot more elegant and simple than both Boseiju and Shusher. Obviously, it's an enchantment so it's synergistic with most of your deck -- it can draw cards, it's tutorable, and can be replenished if it get's countered. There have been games when I used Choke and CoS as "counter-bait" for the opponent's FoW's, only to replenish them the next turn.

I like Shusher over Boseiju, but unless you are running the build with worldly tutors, I think it's too inconsistent. Enchantress is one of the few decks that can tutor up the majority of its sideboard options, and a 1-of anti-counter option doesn't seem too great.

edit: yes, reverent silence is a bitch, but you should pretty much always be siding in Karmic Justice if you don't already play it in the main. If you land that, you might be able to buy enough time to replenish if needed. Enchantress is still a somewhat niche deck, and I see a lot of other decks packing 2-3 SB against us at most.

As a side note, has anyone ever noticed thematically how "girly" the Enchantress archetype is? The majority of your spells depict women, your game plan is to passively sit behind various walls, and winning consists of either sending a bunch of angels over the moat or in one big calculated bitch-fit (Words of War). Just thought it was kind of funny.

[tomjulioo]

against the blue decks, of course city of solitude is good, but it's not that good against AnT

In the eye of chaos is good against blue decks AND burn AND AnT / belcher (if it's in play early)

my most important concern is to find something reanimator as an early iona is GG. lignify is good but i only have 1

here's my list:
// Deck file for Magic Workstation (http://www.magicworkstation.com)

// Lands
3 [APL] Plains (2)
2 [A] Savannah
2 [US] Serra's Sanctum
4 [ON] Windswept Heath
8 [EUL] Forest (3)
1 [A] Taiga

// Creatures
4 [US] Argothian Enchantress

// Spells
1 [WL] Aura of Silence
2 [UD] Replenish
4 [VI] Elephant Grass
2 [ALA] Oblivion Ring
1 [VI] City of Solitude
3 [JU] Solitary Confinement
4 [ON] Enchantress's Presence
2 [TE] Mirri's Guile
2 [CFX] Sigil of the Empty Throne
1 [ON] Words of War
4 [DIS] Utopia Sprawl
1 [LG] Moat
4 [IN] Sterling Grove
3 [A] Wild Growth
1 [OD] Ground Seal
1 [MI] Sacred Mesa

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [WL] Aura of Silence
SB: 1 [UD] Replenish
SB: 2 [OD] Karmic Justice
SB: 1 [VI] City of Solitude
SB: 1 [JU] Solitary Confinement
SB: 1 [SHM] Wheel of Sun and Moon
SB: 1 [TE] Choke
SB: 2 [OD] Ground Seal
SB: 2 [ZEN] Journey to Nowhere
SB: 1 [LRW] Lignify
SB: 1 [LG] In the Eye of Chaos
SB: 1 [MR] Rule of Law

any suggestions?

[wcm8]

I'm not much of a fan of Mirri's Guile, and would probably put silver bullets in that slot.
Sacred Mesa? Up to you, but I don't see the need.
Karakas is worth a Plains slot.
You might consider a couple slots for acceleration -- Lotus Petal, Chrome Mox, or ESG.

Sideboard: Journey to Nowhere is an interesting inclusion, but probably a bit limited. Enchantress main deck is already pretty anti-creature.
Sacred Ground might be worth considering if you see land destruction often.
In the Eye of Chaos is cool, but isn't it a bit hard to get out? Sure you have Utopia Sprawl, but..
Runed Halo is great SB, and useful main as well.

[Opax]

I feel like City of Solitude is a lot more elegant and simple than both Boseiju and Shusher. Obviously, it's an enchantment so it's synergistic with most of your deck -- it can draw cards, it's tutorable, and can be replenished if it get's countered. There have been games when I used Choke and CoS as "counter-bait" for the opponent's FoW's, only to replenish them the next turn.

I was playing city and choke for a lot of time. I played 1 of each mb and other 3 slot on sideboard. A lot of match i find myself with a lot of bomb for blue deck in my hand but i don't arrange to land anyone on the board. (counterbalacance with a drop of 3 and our answer can suck...)

Now i play 3 susher in my side and i never found someone that has a rapid answer for them. Ok, it's not an enchantment, don't let you draw, and cannot be replenished but it let you to cast what you need atm. And remember it work with chalice of void too.


In the Eye of Chaos is cool, but isn't it a bit hard to get out? Sure you have Utopia Sprawl, but..

Never had this problem, you just need to pay attention to what color do you call.
And a small note: when you call blue with sprawl it usually scares your opponent.

About Journey to Nowhere i think if you want somewhat similar kirtar desire is a better choice.

About Reanimator a couple of Crop Rotation in side for your karakas md?? so you will have E tutor if they call green and Crop if they call white.

[grahf]

// list

any suggestions?

Most Enchantress players have 2-3 win conditions, you have four. Personally I think that two is too low to find one when you need it, and with four you'd have more than you need sometimes. Three feels just right. It's a choice between the Mesa and the second Sigil.

EDIT: A thought about finding Karakas, Shusher, etc... has anyone tried Living Wish recently? I remember seeing some old builds that used it, I guess back then it was for Cloud of Faeries or Laquatus with the WoWind version.

[tomjulioo]

i used to play 3 win conditions but after seeing lists with 4, i decided to try it
it's not definitive yet.

i've tried to play moxes but i hate having to sacrifice a card from my hand.
i haven't tried ESG but i thought mana accel was to be able to have WW on turn 1 or at wrost 2 to play runed halo VS combo... ok, it makes you daze prof but with already 4 sprawl and 3 growth, daze is not really a big problem...

i'm gonna break my D&T and test karakas...

[Dementia]

Hey,

Been playing Enchantress for a long time now, but I've always disliked the killing speed of the GW version. Just wanted to share a couple of ideas. This is the deck I've been working on and decided to give it a try in GP Madrid (went 5-2-2, lost a game to a topdecked Wasteland on Glacial Chasm in the 4th extra turn that would have been a guaranteed win on the 5th :( ).

Eternal Wind 2.0

// Lands
1 [OD] Cephalid Coliseum
3 [U] Tropical Island
3 [US] Serra's Sanctum
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
10 [UG] Forest
1 [UG] Island

// Creatures
3 [US] Argothian Enchantress
3 [UL] Cloud of Faeries

// Spells
4 [JU] Living Wish
4 [A] Wild Growth
3 [US] Exploration
3 [NE] Parallax Tide
2 [ON] Words of Wind
4 [ON] Enchantress's Presence
4 [DIS] Utopia Sprawl
3 [NE] Seal of Removal
2 [WL] Ancestral Knowledge
2 [SH] Mox Diamond
2 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [US] Argothian Enchantress
SB: 1 [UL] Cloud of Faeries
SB: 1 [IA] Glacial Chasm
SB: 2 [FD] Eternal Witness
SB: 1 [LG] The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
SB: 1 [US] Gilded Drake
SB: 1 [SHM] Faerie Macabre
SB: 2 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 1 [LRW] Gaddock Teeg
SB: 1 [TSP] Harmonic Sliver
SB: 1 [TE] Wasteland
SB: 2 [SC] Stifle

Basically, it's a combo deck around Words of Wind. It used to be popular back in Extended when Frantic Search was still legal and kind of died because it's speed was not good enough anymore compared to other combo decks. Legacy brings silverbullets that do not make the deck faster, but that can slow opponents down and allow to kill safely.

Not going to explain the whole combo in details, but if you need more explanations just let me know :D Once you can produce 5+ mana with two lands, that you have Words of Wind on the board, two enchantress effects, a Cloud of Faeries, a 1cc enchant into play (exploration) that you can bounce freely and a 1cc enchant in your hand (seal of removal):

-Add 5 mana with your two lands
-Play Seal
-Use the WoW ability twice
-Return Exploration and cloud
-With the remaining 2 mana play Cloud
-Repeat playing Exploration and returning Cloud+Seal

If you can add more than 5 mana => infinite mana. You can play exploration, return seal and draw a card as many times as you want. Once you manage to draw a Living Wish and Cephalid Coliseum, wish for an Eternal Witness and loop with Exploration returning Witness to your hand and Witness returning Coliseum. As it's a new Exploration you are allowed to play Coliseum over and over again. Wish for Gaddock Teeg and play it before you plan to combo for the kill (Coliseum brings them Force of Will, Mindbreak Trap, Ravenous Trap...).

Ideally, that's how it goes but in practice it's far from happening that easily. There are many small combos everywhere in the deck. It is extremely versatile: sometimes Parallax Tide hits the board on turn 2, Tabernacle on turn 2/3. Obviously, the control elements are more fragile than Elephant Grass and Confinement, but it's a trade off for other things. Sensei's Divining Top comboes with Words of Wind... you don't even need to have anything but a bunch of mana! Play the tempo game with Seals, don't be afraid to block with Clouds, even with Enchantress if you have to. Gilded Drake + Seal wins games as well. Witness + Seal is nice too.

One more thing is that you can combo with Tide, a single enchantress effect and WoW.

On card choice:

Originally had replenish in the sideboard, but there are no elephant grass to return, no confinement, no sterling grove and a lot of times it's just not worth it in this version. Boarding in the 2 copies of Witness against decks with a lot of disruption is often better because of the interaction with Seal and WoW. Harmonic Sliver > Pridemage in this deck because it costs the same but sliver doesn't have to die to kill something and can be returned. Trygon Predator is also a possibility.

Tried many different things, from sideboard counterbalance to intuition/1 Replenish/1 Witness/1 Genesis/1 Life from the Loam/1 Coliseum package with the singleton Chasm and Wasteland. Chalice of the Void was an option against ANT too but it was so rare bringing it in that it was not worth it. Wishing Teeg turn 1/2 and playing it on turn 2/3 or playing mana denial with stifle, wasteland and tide is not enough but I don't think more should be added for that specific matchup. It's not unwinnable because our clock is not that slow compared to theirs, but it's not the best matchup either.

Have fun

[dontbiteitholmes]

Welcome to the Source. This thread is for Solitatire, that list is Eternal Wind. Tempo Thresh and Countertop have different threads and they share even more cards in common then our 2 lists. You should really start a new thread or else we are all going to be talking about 2 completely different decks and that's not going to get anyone anywhere. The only thing the 2 Enchantress decks have in common is Enchantress draw engine and fast mana enchantments. Good luck.

[SpatulaOfTheAges]

As a side note, has anyone ever noticed thematically how "girly" the Enchantress archetype is? The majority of your spells depict women, your game plan is to passively sit behind various walls, and winning consists of either sending a bunch of angels over the moat or in one big calculated bitch-fit (Words of War). Just thought it was kind of funny.

I originally wanted to call it PMS instead of Solitaire, but sadly, the name had been taken by some terrible Equipose deck.

[wcm8]

Been doing some tests where I ran 4 sprawl/4 growth, vs. 4 sprawl/2 growth/2 mox.

I don't have a concrete statistical analysis, but I found that you will always want the growths for consistency, and that if you are going to run acceleration you should add it in addition to those four growths. Mox/ESG/Petal don't draw your cards, and while they can be great turn 1 to power out an enchantress, they lose most of their relevancy after that.

[dontbiteitholmes]

Been doing some tests where I ran 4 sprawl/4 growth, vs. 4 sprawl/2 growth/2 mox.

I don't have a concrete statistical analysis, but I found that you will always want the growths for consistency, and that if you are going to run acceleration you should add it in addition to those four growths. Mox/ESG/Petal don't draw your cards, and while they can be great turn 1 to power out an enchantress, they lose most of their relevancy after that.

Lotus Petal is better than Mox for this deck I think. It powers out the early Enchantress without costing 2 cards and it's not bad to draw in the middle of blowing up either as it's often the difference between casting Words of War or casting something less awesome just to draw cards.
Growths are good too but oftentimes slower in the early game when it matters most. It comes up more often for me that I need that extra mana "right now" in the early game than I'm playing enchantments and drawing cards and just fizzle out (I think Guiles help).


I'm not much of a fan of Mirri's Guile, and would probably put silver bullets in that slot.
Sacred Mesa? Up to you, but I don't see the need.
Karakas is worth a Plains slot.
You might consider a couple slots for acceleration -- Lotus Petal, Chrome Mox, or ESG.

Sideboard: Journey to Nowhere is an interesting inclusion, but probably a bit limited. Enchantress main deck is already pretty anti-creature.
Sacred Ground might be worth considering if you see land destruction often.
In the Eye of Chaos is cool, but isn't it a bit hard to get out? Sure you have Utopia Sprawl, but..
Runed Halo is great SB, and useful main as well.

I've moved away from Rule of Law in the sideboard. Storm combo/Beltcher would probably prefer that you play it as opposed to any other hate card. You sit there like a fool playing one card a turn instead of trying to combo out, they just wait until they have what they need then Wish/Mystical Tutor and next turn Reverent Silence and Combo out for the win.
Better options?
Gaddock Teeg- You side out the Moats and he stops Sigil. If you don't run Sigil and chose Sacred Mesa he's a one sided monster who stops Beltcher/Tendrils/EtW and of course Reverent Silence. Teeg + enchantment hate is a good thing. It would be quite a feat for most combo decks to answer Teeg then Silence in the same turn and still have the cards to go off. Of course if they pass the turn once they kill/bounce Teeg they risk you playing another one. Then of course he swings to 2 damage a turn which doesn't hurt, especially if they play Sadistic Sacrament.
Dovescape- It's slow, but if it hits the board vs. combo the game is officially over 99% of the time since they usually don't do non-lethal damage or have relevant creatures.
Runed Halo- Good vs. every combo deck, dies to R. Silence.
Null Rod- I don't think it's the best answer but it does shut down all artifacts making pretty much every combo deck a lot less awesome and it lives through R. Silence.
In the Eye of Chaos- Yes it's very cool, but it's a little high at 3 cmc and it's color #4 and it makes me want to run an extra dual to play it when I need it. Is it worth the trouble? Not to me right now but I've definitely tried it in the past.

[Opax]

I've moved away from Rule of Law in the sideboard. Storm combo/Beltcher would probably prefer that you play it as opposed to any other hate card. You sit there like a fool playing one card a turn instead of trying to combo out, they just wait until they have what they need then Wish/Mystical Tutor and next turn Reverent Silence and Combo out for the win.
Better options?
Gaddock Teeg- You side out the Moats and he stops Sigil. If you don't run Sigil and chose Sacred Mesa he's a one sided monster who stops Beltcher/Tendrils/EtW and of course Reverent Silence. Teeg + enchantment hate is a good thing. It would be quite a feat for most combo decks to answer Teeg then Silence in the same turn and still have the cards to go off. Of course if they pass the turn once they kill/bounce Teeg they risk you playing another one. Then of course he swings to 2 damage a turn which doesn't hurt, especially if they play Sadistic Sacrament.
Dovescape- It's slow, but if it hits the board vs. combo the game is officially over 99% of the time since they usually don't do non-lethal damage or have relevant creatures.
Runed Halo- Good vs. every combo deck, dies to R. Silence.
Null Rod- I don't think it's the best answer but it does shut down all artifacts making pretty much every combo deck a lot less awesome and it lives through R. Silence.
In the Eye of Chaos- Yes it's very cool, but it's a little high at 3 cmc and it's color #4 and it makes me want to run an extra dual to play it when I need it. Is it worth the trouble? Not to me right now but I've definitely tried it in the past.

What about Aetherworn Canonist?? Quite easy to cast on 1st turn, give them a clock, go out of reverent silence.
I'm used to play 2 of them in my side. And probably i'll replace Rule of law with one other of them.

[dontbiteitholmes]

What about Aetherworn Canonist?? Quite easy to cast on 1st turn, give them a clock, go out of reverent silence.
I'm used to play 2 of them in my side. And probably i'll replace Rule of law with one other of them.

Canonist is better then Rule of Law but it still slows you down. Against combo I want to end the game ASAP because I have to assume the turn they clear out my hate cards they are going to win. Also I most likely lost game 1 so I need time for game 3. Teeg stops all the cards that win the game for most combo decks except Painter which doesn't care about Canonist and Glimpse of Nature decks which are terrible and not worth consideration. Teeg also stops the most common SB Tranquility and hits more random decks like Dream Halls and doesn't die to Krosan Grip which is the 2nd biggest concern from combo SBs. I just don't think Rule of Law or Canonist is the way to go. They slow you down in the games you need to win the fastest.

[(nameless one)]

What are the pros and cons of not running duals and not running red?

[dontbiteitholmes]

What are the pros and cons of not running duals and not running red?

The Pros are you save about $75
The Cons are your deck is not as good, you risk drawing your deck out or losing to time by not running WoWar, you can't play WW enchantments as easily.
Enchantress only runs 3-4 duals but combined with fetchlands they make the deck a lot more consistant without folding to Wastelands or Blood Moon. You could probably manage with only 1 Savannah if you had to with fetches.

[anonymos]

I agree with what he said about not running duals. I'm a big fan of Blood Moon maindeck, so I'll mention that you lose out on that. You can still use Sprawl to get access to it, but the loss of duals would be interesting. Maybe I'll try that at the weekly tournament here (I'm ahead like 200 in credit at the store) to see just how bad it really hurts.

[caiomarcos]

About the duals, agreeing with what was said, the biggest loss is not running WoW and Blood Moon. The deck can easily play with no Savannah, relying on fetches, but I find Taiga really necessary.

[dontbiteitholmes]

About the duals, agreeing with what was said, the biggest loss is not running WoW and Blood Moon. The deck can easily play with no Savannah, relying on fetches, but I find Taiga really necessary.

Blood Moon is a meta call as well as a play style call. I could see running it main deck, sideboard, or not running it at all if your meta is mostly Blue and Red based aggro. Words of War on the other hand is no contest the most necessary card in the deck aside from Enchantresses. If WoWar was never printed this deck would be straight garbage tier.

[AcidFiend]

Dementia - I love your Eternal Wind list. Someone should start a new thread for it definitely.

[Master Shake]

Hey,

Been playing Enchantress for a long time now, but I've always disliked the killing speed of the GW version. Just wanted to share a couple of ideas. This is the deck I've been working on and decided to give it a try in GP Madrid (went 5-2-2, lost a game to a topdecked Wasteland on Glacial Chasm in the 4th extra turn that would have been a guaranteed win on the 5th :( ).

Eternal Wind 2.0

// Lands
1 [OD] Cephalid Coliseum
3 [U] Tropical Island
3 [US] Serra's Sanctum
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
10 [UG] Forest
1 [UG] Island

// Creatures
3 [US] Argothian Enchantress
3 [UL] Cloud of Faeries

// Spells
4 [JU] Living Wish
4 [A] Wild Growth
3 [US] Exploration
3 [NE] Parallax Tide
2 [ON] Words of Wind
4 [ON] Enchantress's Presence
4 [DIS] Utopia Sprawl
3 [NE] Seal of Removal
2 [WL] Ancestral Knowledge
2 [SH] Mox Diamond
2 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [US] Argothian Enchantress
SB: 1 [UL] Cloud of Faeries
SB: 1 [IA] Glacial Chasm
SB: 2 [FD] Eternal Witness
SB: 1 [LG] The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
SB: 1 [US] Gilded Drake
SB: 1 [SHM] Faerie Macabre
SB: 2 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 1 [LRW] Gaddock Teeg
SB: 1 [TSP] Harmonic Sliver
SB: 1 [TE] Wasteland
SB: 2 [SC] Stifle

Basically, it's a combo deck around Words of Wind. It used to be popular back in Extended when Frantic Search was still legal and kind of died because it's speed was not good enough anymore compared to other combo decks. Legacy brings silverbullets that do not make the deck faster, but that can slow opponents down and allow to kill safely.

Not going to explain the whole combo in details, but if you need more explanations just let me know :D Once you can produce 5+ mana with two lands, that you have Words of Wind on the board, two enchantress effects, a Cloud of Faeries, a 1cc enchant into play (exploration) that you can bounce freely and a 1cc enchant in your hand (seal of removal):

-Add 5 mana with your two lands
-Play Seal
-Use the WoW ability twice
-Return Exploration and cloud
-With the remaining 2 mana play Cloud
-Repeat playing Exploration and returning Cloud+Seal

If you can add more than 5 mana => infinite mana. You can play exploration, return seal and draw a card as many times as you want. Once you manage to draw a Living Wish and Cephalid Coliseum, wish for an Eternal Witness and loop with Exploration returning Witness to your hand and Witness returning Coliseum. As it's a new Exploration you are allowed to play Coliseum over and over again. Wish for Gaddock Teeg and play it before you plan to combo for the kill (Coliseum brings them Force of Will, Mindbreak Trap, Ravenous Trap...).

Ideally, that's how it goes but in practice it's far from happening that easily. There are many small combos everywhere in the deck. It is extremely versatile: sometimes Parallax Tide hits the board on turn 2, Tabernacle on turn 2/3. Obviously, the control elements are more fragile than Elephant Grass and Confinement, but it's a trade off for other things. Sensei's Divining Top comboes with Words of Wind... you don't even need to have anything but a bunch of mana! Play the tempo game with Seals, don't be afraid to block with Clouds, even with Enchantress if you have to. Gilded Drake + Seal wins games as well. Witness + Seal is nice too.

One more thing is that you can combo with Tide, a single enchantress effect and WoW.

On card choice:

Originally had replenish in the sideboard, but there are no elephant grass to return, no confinement, no sterling grove and a lot of times it's just not worth it in this version. Boarding in the 2 copies of Witness against decks with a lot of disruption is often better because of the interaction with Seal and WoW. Harmonic Sliver > Pridemage in this deck because it costs the same but sliver doesn't have to die to kill something and can be returned. Trygon Predator is also a possibility.

Tried many different things, from sideboard counterbalance to intuition/1 Replenish/1 Witness/1 Genesis/1 Life from the Loam/1 Coliseum package with the singleton Chasm and Wasteland. Chalice of the Void was an option against ANT too but it was so rare bringing it in that it was not worth it. Wishing Teeg turn 1/2 and playing it on turn 2/3 or playing mana denial with stifle, wasteland and tide is not enough but I don't think more should be added for that specific matchup. It's not unwinnable because our clock is not that slow compared to theirs, but it's not the best matchup either.

Have fun

I've played a version of this deck when Garruk came out. He costs more, but cannot be killed with anything like Terminate, PtE, StP or the like. Garruk also cannot be bolted as you add the counter without passing priority - putting him up to 4 counters. And if Solitary Confinement is down (as it nearly always is by the midgame) Garruk is immune to anything that isn't Vindicate or Rootgrapple He also takes the strain off of having a dedicated blue source for when you combo off.

I found that Garruk was also a lot easier to protect then a Cloud of faeries would be, as he gains the benefit from a Moat or Elephant Grass. I was using 8 Wild Groth Effects and piling them on one land [which as bad against sinkhole but the deck is bad against sinkhole anyway.] And I never had a problem generating the mana for Garruk + Words of Wind activation x2 + Enchantment.

[wcm8]

I think those lists are interesting, but as someone else said, this thread is meant more for the discussion of the G/W enchantress build.

[Dementia]

Sorry, I did not mean to cause trouble. I just wanted to give ideas after someone had suggested trying Living Wish in the GW version and with all the possibilities and Wish targets it seemed better to show a list around it.

It's true cards are not the same but to me the toolbox Living Wish offers is similar to what GW allows with Sterling Grove except it's in the sideboard: Glacial Chasm mimics Solitary Confinement, Tabernacle mimics Elephant Grass... Cloud of Faeries with an enchanted land on turn 2 gives that extra mana for daze that you have been wanting to achieve with ESG/Mox/Petal.

Anyway, you are right. I shouldn't discuss it here anymore so back on topic:

In the Eye of Chaos has been suggested as well as Rule of Law, Canonist and Gaddock Teeg. ANT and Reanimator players are starting to pack 2-3 copies of Reverent Silence in their sideboard. It's a sorcery, so ITEC doesn't work against it, not to mention it's an enchantment that gets destroyed by it in the process. Same for Rule of Law. I think it's a good idea to focus on Canonist / Teeg because they are immune to Reverent Silence and because they cause damage. Answers should be either creature or artifact for that reason unless their forest is turned into a mountain. On a side note, Teeg seems to be the best answer but, it's a legend and won't let us play replenish.

[Dementia]

Sorry, I did not mean to cause trouble. I just wanted to give ideas after someone had suggested trying Living Wish in the GW version and with all the possibilities and Wish targets it seemed better to show a list around it.

It's true cards are not the same but to me the toolbox Living Wish offers is similar to what GW allows with Sterling Grove except it's in the sideboard: Glacial Chasm mimics Solitary Confinement, Tabernacle mimics Elephant Grass... Cloud of Faeries with an enchanted land on turn 2 gives that extra mana for daze that you have been wanting to achieve with ESG/Mox/Petal.

Anyway, you are right. I shouldn't discuss it here anymore so back on topic:

In the Eye of Chaos has been suggested as well as Rule of Law, Canonist and Gaddock Teeg. ANT and Reanimator players are starting to pack 2-3 copies of Reverent Silence in their sideboard. It's a sorcery, so ITEC doesn't work against it, not to mention it's an enchantment that gets destroyed by it in the process. Same for Rule of Law. I think it's a good idea to focus on Canonist / Teeg because they are immune to Reverent Silence and because they cause damage. Answers should be either creature or artifact for that reason unless their forest is turned into a mountain. On a side note, Teeg seems to be the best answer but, it's a legend and won't let us play replenish.

[Patrunkenphat7]

Has anyone tried a 2-of Exploration? I would be interested in seeing results for this card.

[dontbiteitholmes]

Has anyone tried a 2-of Exploration? I would be interested in seeing results for this card.

It's hard to say in a vacuum. I used to run 4x Explorations but that was a slower version of the deck and I played 23 lands (I think) so I almost always dropped 2 land the turn I played one. I guess it really depends on the rest of your deck. Most importantly how many lands you run, how many non-Exploration mana accelerators you run, whether you run 1x or 2x red sources, and what cards you cut for the Explorations.

@Dementia- there should be a post of mine somewhere in the last 2 pages that sums up my feelings on anti-combo sideboards. I still think Rule of Law is a relic at this point and finds it's way into most peoples lists because, once upon a time, it was our only real option vs. storm combo. In the past 3 years or so plenty of other cards have been printed that just do a better job. Rule and Canonist are good vs. combo, but at the same time we are basically playing a combo deck. You need to win fast or lock the game.
Dovescape locks the game
Teeg keeps them off Ad/Tendrils/R. Silence/Charbeltcher/EtW and beats for 2
Runed Halo keeps them from winning is tutorable and draws cards off Enchantress
Null Rod is also doable especially if you don't run Mox/Petal and it stops artifact mana, Beltcher, Grindstone, Divining Top.

Rule and Canonist slow us down too much giving combo time to find answers, and once they find answers the game ends pretty quick if you've only been playing one spell a turn instead of going apeshit. You need to play multiple spells a turn just as bad as they do to end the game quickly. Teeg stops storm from winning and stops Silence. Halo and Null Rod are both good vs. the majority of combo decks, Dovescape basically ends the game considering they run mostly 0~1~2 cmc and you draw if any Enchantresses are on the board (and most combo decks deal 0 damage until the last turn). Those are the 4 best anti-combo cards I can think of. Canonist is better than Rule since it beats for 2 and doesn't fall to Silence, but you have to run multiples since you can't Grove them (or you could go with a E. Tutor plan). I think Rule falls into the "all your eggs in one basket" trap. If you are running something that screws both players so symmetrically it needs to be more solid than just another enchantment. Atleast if you get Canonist out and a Runed Halo or Confinement they need to find 2 answers to win instead of just EoT M. Tutor for Silence, draw/play Silence/go nuts.

[anonymos]

I had been using it up until about a month ago. Swapped it for Wild Growth 3 and 4 and haven't looked back. It is usually kind of meh a lot of time with the occasional OMG this is awesome. Unfortunately, the meh's happen way way way more than the OMG's. There should be more discussion about it somewhere 10 or so pages back. It may be further, not sure and my internet is sucking way too much today to look.

[Hiis]

I went 3-0-2 in a thirty-something people tourney on saturday, my list looked like this:

Mana (22):
6x Forest
4x Windswept Heath
4x Plains
2x Elvish Spirit Guide
2x Savannah
2x Serra's Sanctum
1x Horizon Canopy
1x Taiga

Engine:
4x Argothian Enchantress
4x Enchantress's Presence
4x Sterling Grove

Kill:
2x Sigil of the Empty Throne
1x Words of War

The Rest:
4x Elephant Grass
4x Utopia Sprawl
4x Wild Growth
3x Solitary Confinement
2x Replenish
2x Runed Halo
1x Ground Seal
1x Lignify
1x City of Solitude
1x Oblivion Ring



Sideboard:
4x Wheel of Sun and Moon
2x Relic of Progenitus
2x Circle of Protection: Red
2x Choke
1x City of Solitude
1x Runed Halo
1x Oblivion Ring
1x Aura of Silence
1x Replenish


Round 1: Enchantress mirror :cry:
Okay this match would obviously be insanely stupid and I immediately suggested that we ID, my opponent didn't accept and we proceeded to lock each other out of the game and after 35 minutes of drawing cards and skipping draws with WoW etc he accepted to take the draw. Kind of bad luck to get a basically impossible to win match right on the first round.

0-0-1

Round 2: Affinity
Game 1 he's playing and starts with land, springleaf drum, I go forest, sprawl, next turn he goes land ravager, on my turn i play land, runed halo on ravager. Later he makes plating and arcbound worker and beats me to 8 or so and then I o-ring, he sacs worker to ravager and only has ravagers that are useless due to runed halo. In a couple turns i lock him and make a bunch of angels. Game 2 he gets turn 3 10/10 master of etherium and I die a couple turns later, in game three I'm on the play and assemble confinement lock in 4 turns with two enchantress's and it's game over.

SB: out Ground Seal, City, Wild Growth in Aura, Halo, O-ring

1-0-1

Round 3: Dragon Stompy
So now I'm staring at my friend's face across the table, he's playing dragon stompy so I'm in a pretty good spot, in game 1 he goes first playins chalice @ 1, chalice @ 2 and blood moon during his first three turns while I play basics to prevent beings hurt by blood moon, on my third turn i O-ring the chalice @ 2, he plays a morphed gathan raiders and on my turn 4 I play enchantress and lignify on raiders, then i start cantrip-chaining with 1-drop echantments and replenish them back and go sigil. Game 2 starts with him playing a trinisphere turn 1, avalanche riders turn 2 --> destroy my land, turn 3 play echo, turn 4 second riders and a couple turns later i'm dead. Game 3 I go first and start with a first turn echantress, second turn presence, third turn cop:red and he scoops.

SB: out Ground Seal, City, 2x Elephant Grass, in 2x CoP:Red, O-Ring, Halo

2-0-1

Round 4: Pro-Bant
I lose the roll once again and he goes land-->noble hierarch, i go land-->sprawl, second turn he plays trygon predator and i drop a land + enchantress. He attacks with predator and eats my sprawl, then goes natural order (sac hierarch)-->progenitus, on my turn i lignify the predator and play land + sprawl, next turn he attacks with progenitus and I go to 7, on my turn i go land, presence, runed halo on progenitus. During the next couple of turns he plays a couple natural orders saccing progenitus and predator and bringing goyf and pridemage to play and i play confinement, sigil wow, grove and some other stupid things and overwhelm him, at some time I had to chump a goyf but that's it. Game 2 starts with a couple hierarchs and goyf IIRC, while i play enchantress and a halo on progenitus, assemble confinement and proceed to win.

SB: out Ground Seal, Grass, in Halo, City (he had savannahs out in game one with tropicals so I didn't bring chokes in)

3-0-1

Round 5: Merfolk
I lose the roll again (threw 1 four times and 5 once on a D20 :frown: ) and rip a hand with no enchantresses but fast mana and elephant grasses, confinement and replenish, now that I think of it I should have definitely mulliganed, but I had 2 hours of sleep the night before and due to some stupid though decided to keep the hand. He plays a vial and some fish, I fail to draw enchantress and die when my confinement is bounced with a shitload of merfolk on the board. Game 2, I start and play stuff which gets countered, but eventually I'm at 3 life with e.grass, 2 presence and 1 enchantress on board and he has 3 lands (one mutavault), 3 silvergill adepts, 2 LoA (lignify on one) and a Reejerey after some vial shenanigans but all his lands are tapped and he passes the turn. On my turn I pay the grass, play O-ring on Reejerey, Halo on Adept and pass the turn so he can only do damage with one LoA which i chump with enchantress. On my next turn I assemble confinement lock with 2 sterling groves and eventually burn him with WoW. Game 3 starts again with vial and i go forest-->sprawl which gets dazed, next turn he plays the island again and puts a counter on vial, i play plains--> enchantress, dazed, he plays the island and puts a counter on vial. My turn, I play land, O-ring, he activates vial and puts adept into play, draws a card and spell pierces. Time is called on my turn, he attacks with the adept a couple times, plays a standstill, third daze and a second spell pierce on my replenish and presence and I'm left with 2 sterling groves and it's a draw. I'm a bit disappointed because I feel like I could have easily won the match (and thereby the tournament) but didn't have enough time, well better luck next time and no enchantress mirror please.

SB: out Ground Seal, Wild Growth and something, in City, Halo and Replenish

3-0-2


Now that the tourney is over I think I'll do the following changes to my deck:

-Horizon Canopy
+Savannah

I never used the draw ability of the canopy even though I had it in play at least four times.

-Ground Seal
+Elvish Spirit Guide

The ESGs were really good and Seal was sided out every game, while it is nice to have against loam decks etc, I think the increased speed is a better fit.

I'm also pondering the following changes to the sideboard:

-2 Choke
+1 CoP: Blue
+1 City of Solitude

Choke just doesn't seem that great anymore, Landstill is a really rare sight, merfolk and UW tempo use vials and free counters (and replaying the tapped lands afer daze), bant has hierarchs for blue mana and canadian thresh has the same free counters as well so an additional City of Solitude seems like a better choice and CoP:Blue is another silver bullet against merfolk.

[SpatulaOfTheAges]

City of Solitude is probably the weakest anti-blue card you can run in my experience. Choke is way better, Carpet is better, Multani's Presence is better, and just running the SB Fatty plan is way better. City seems amazing on the surface because you think it's a big deal to shut down their counters. But it fucks up your curve, taking the turn you were supposed to play an Enchantress, doesn't slow down the proactive part of their gameplan, and is a dead topdeck. Choke is never a dead topdeck, and even if you play it after your Enchantresses, is still a bomb most of the time.

We don't need silver bullets against Fish. It's a very favorable matchup.

[wcm8]

I personally like Ground Seal main deck, but it's a meta call. It helps a tiny bit against Reanimator, but is especially useful any any deck running recursion (LftL, Eternal Witness, Volrath's Stronghold, etc.). Yeah, it might get sided out a lot, but the same goes for other silver bullet slots that aren't useful game 1. I think it hurts more decks legacy-wide. If you aren't sure about your meta game, you should probably just fill those bullet slots with an all-purposer like O-ring.

I've been loving Runed Halo maindeck, and I think everyone should be running at least two. A lot of legacy decks run few kill cards, and it gives you a great game 1 chance against combo.

I just hope they print some new enchantments for us in the next few sets. Even if they did a white Argothian (like they did with Verduran as Mesa), I think that would be great.

[Sevryn]

I just hope they print some new enchantments for us in the next few sets. Even if they did a white Argothian (like they did with Verduran as Mesa), I think that would be great.

Cracker Enchantress would just be sex.

[dontbiteitholmes]

Exploration was played in every WGr Enchantress I'm aware of up until Ravnica block when Utopia Sprawl came out.

[Gibbie_X]

Exploration is a great card for the deck, which is why I run 2. It helps like Utopia Sprawl and Wild Growth with acceleration, and is great late game, pumping more mana onto the board. After turn 7 its really a free card, that draws you cards. I've also found it late game dropping a Sanctum as my second or third land to finish it helps.

[anonymos]

Top 8 for me with my ugly list. 4-2. Changed the CoP: Red for another Karmic Justice. Came back to bite me as I lost to a burn deck where I drew almost every land in the deck between enchantments it felt like.

[grahf]

I just hope they print some new enchantments for us in the next few sets. Even if they did a white Argothian (like they did with Verduran as Mesa), I think that would be great.

Agreed, the last bone they threw to the Enchantress players was Sigil. I'd love to see an Enchantress Planeswalker. I recall someone else's idea for one, something like this:

2GW : 4 starting loyalty

+1: the next time you cast an enchantment this turn, draw a card
-1: search your library for an enchantment, put it on top
-7: Replenish

How cool would that be?

[SpatulaOfTheAges]

What I'd really like to see would be

No Homers Allowed
G
Enchantment
When [this] comes into play, draw a card.
When [this] comes into play, name a card. All permanents with that name gain "Upkeep:1"

[wcm8]

Or maybe a white elephant grass that didn't let red creatures attack. Goblins would be even more hosed. Re: the Enchantress planeswalker, I think it'd have to be cheaper than 4 to see a lot of play.

I've been experimenting with cutting WoWar outright and just sticking with 2 Sigils as the win-con. I feel like War is more of 'just' a game ender and doesn't have as much utility mid-game, when sigil can help a lot. With war, you typically will be winning that turn or the next, whereas with Sigil you'll win at the next turn at the earliest... but it's not too hard to get Sigil out earlier even without setting up a lock. Reverent Silence also won't kill you that turn because you'll have angels to block for you vs. decks like Zoo that would push through for the kill. Plus you don't have to worry about getting your sole Taiga out or calling red with a Sprawl. The only additional danger you run is getting decked. If you're in danger of getting decked, you've probably given your opponent too much time in the first place. War has been a dead draw early/mid-game way too often for me.

Also, note that the guy who won the SCG 5k tourney dropped War in favor of a pure G/W build. Just something to think about.

[Dark Ritual]

WoWar has been very effective for me; being able to kill Iona w/WoWar is awesome when you run no green 'removal' for Iona. Which I currently don't have but I plan on putting a 1 of lignify in for Iona or maybe a 1 of karakas in the SB or something. And as for decking yourself I hate doing that so I run WoWar. The red splash is definately a good inclusion for me overall though and utopia sprawl naming red is not that hard to do since this deck doesn't have hardly any color issues since it usually runs 5 nonbasics 3 of those dual lands and 2 of those insane white lands.

I can't stand exploration even as a 2 of; it is only useful in comboing out with this deck and having it in your opener is sometimes questionable. The only plus I can think of is that you don't get blown out by sinkhole targeting your enchanted land but that seems to be a minor drawback.

[dontbiteitholmes]

I'd like to see the enchantment "Name a card, the named card can't be played" for WW.
At this point there aren't too many enchantments that are going to make the cut but that would a great SB card for decks with Silence or Deed as well as hosing combo.

[wcm8]

Re: WoWar vs. Iona... dude I don't know WHAT decks you play against that you're able to have like 8 mana (4 for 1cc green enchantments, 4 for activation, or I guess some lesser combination if you have more enchantresses out) and have War out in time to deal with Iona. It is not unusual for reanimator to have her out on turn 2/3. Lignify would be a much safer bet to run in place of War if you think you're going to be facing her a lot. And if you DID see her later game, if you had Sigil out you'd only have to get 2 angels to block her. In any case, I've been putting Noetic Scale in my sideboard in addition to graveyard hate as a measure against Reanimator, Progenitus, and other huge creatures. But if you're playing in a Reanimator or Combo heavy metagame, Enchantress isn't really the deck to be running.. it works far better against agro.

Re: "Meddling Enchantment", that would indeed be great, and seems to fit into the color wheel. We have meddling mage, but a mono white equivalent (whether creature or enchantment preferably) would be nice. This would be proactive, and runed halo would be reactive.

Agreed re: exploration. This card seems to only be situationally good, at least for enchantress. Sprawl and Growth are guaranteed to replace themselves when you're "comboing out", but I see the deck as more of a control deck that has a combo-ish engine [and at least in this regard, enchantress seems to be unique]. If you want acceleration, I think you're better off running Petal/Mox/ESG over exploration. I have opted for 4 Growth/4 Sprawl instead for the consistency.

I think Enchantress is a great legacy deck, and has proven itself to be competitive. In fact, not really sure why it's not in the other forum. It's still too niche to be considered a common deck to beat, but it could really benefit from a card(s) to push it into a higher competitive tier. Here's hoping...

[caiomarcos]

Re: "Meddling Enchantment", that would indeed be great, and seems to fit into the color wheel. We have meddling mage, but a mono white equivalent (whether creature or enchantment preferably) would be nice. This would be proactive, and runed halo would be reactive.

There's always Null Chamber

[dontbiteitholmes]

There's always Null Chamber

Yes I am well aware of Null Chamber, I used to run one in the sb. Problem is Null Chamber sucks ass. It costs 4 and it lets your opponent also name a card. Needless to say Null Chamber is wayyyyyyy behind the power creep. Now adays the enchantment I named would almost never see play outside of Enchantress even though it costs 1/2 what Chamber does and is twice as good once it hits play. Basically I'm hopeful something like this would see print because it would be playable in SBs and would be very safe and fair and the control version of Enchantress is hurting for a good SB anti-hate card vs. Deed and R. Silence. (edit that is proactive unlike Replenish and K. Justice)

[pi4meterftw]

What I'd really like to see would be

No Homers Allowed
G
Enchantment
When [this] comes into play, draw a card.
When [this] comes into play, name a card. All permanents with that name gain "Upkeep:1"

I assume you intend "nonland card?" In either case, this is kind of OP. It's a guaranteed 2:1 for G.

[Just me]

Hi all,

Played in the side-event at GP Brussel yesterday with Enchantress. I went 3-3 drop.

My list;
4 Argothian Enchantress
4 Enchantress’s Presence
4 Wild Growth
4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Elephant Grass
4 Sterling Grove
3 Solitary Confinement
2 Replenish
2 Oblivion Ring
2 Runed Halo
2 Sigil of the Empty Throne
1 Moat
1 City of Solitude
1 Karmic Justice

3 Chrome Mox
2 Serra’s Sanctuum
4 windswept Heath
1 Gemstone Cavern
1 Taiga
1 Savannah
3 Plains
7 Forest

SB turned out to be crap. People, do NOT play Warmth unless you know you will face Burn. Even against Goblins it sucks. Cop Red is much much better.

Game 1 Junk (G-B-W control) 1-2
First game I beat him with Angels for the win. Then he sides 10 cards and uses discard (Thoughtseize, Duress) and boardcontrol (Vindicate, Crime/Punishment, Wrath of God) to stop my deck from functioning properly.

Game 2 Zoo 2-0
Well, it’s Zoo, an aggressive deck. First game the guy has no clou what’s going on. His first tournament since 5 years and Enchantress is not mainstream enough to prepare for. Second game I’m in a pickle. Play defensively and stay on the backfoot or gamble on him NOT having the burn to kill me, setting up the lock. I gambled and it paid of. I felt the rick was worth it, with 1 more game to come, in which I would start. This game, Runed Halo already proved strong, holding back 2 Wild Nacatls.

Game 3 Helm of Obedience 0-2
Combo, I though Ant (seeing Infernal Tutor) and set a Halo to Tendrils but he killed me through Leyline + Helm. Maindeck no less. Second game I never had a chance with him dropping a Leyline before we started and getting the helm somewhere turn 3. No Halo for me too…

Game 4 Goblins splash black 2-0
Well, this usually is a tense but favourable matchup. Warren Weirding main was nasty against my Argothians but Moat bought me plenty of time. His version had no direct damage (Siege Gang Commander and Goblin Sharpshooter for example). Last game I really needed the 4th and 5th additional turn and WoW to finish him off. Nice to manage that with a big crowd gathered around (game took long due to Wastelands and Rishadan Ports).

Game 5 Goblins splash black 2-1
Her deck (yes, a girl) was much better for this matchup, with SGC and Sharpshooters and the Skirk Prospector to generate a lot af mana. Lots of damage potential outside combat. First game was mine, buying lots of time with Elpehant Grass and using Runed Halo on SGC to keep the direct damage away. Second game she pulled 2 Pyrokinesis on me and I was low in life. Finally I stabilised (Moat) until she got Skirk Prospector, lots of Gobbo’s and Sharpshooter going. No engine yet to get Confinement. Last game I got a fast Moat again, buying me enough time to set things up, but at all times I played for safety since she could do so much damage in 1 turn. Again I needed the 4th and 5th turn to kill with WoW (and some Angels but she killed a couple with cycling Gempalm).

Game 6 Ant 0-2
Well…. He got good draws so he won. We talked a little about SB options and maybe Chalice of the Void is a solid option. Set at 0 it stops the free mana (petals and Lion’s eye) and at 1 it’s also strong, stopping M. Tutor, Brainstorm, Ponder, Ritual,… Sure, we lose stuff like Utopia Sprawls but they still draw a card and we’re control anyway. After board I like to try 4 Runed Halo, 4 Chalice and 2-3 Gaddock Teeg against combo.

Then I dropped and went home. Lessons learned;
-Warmth is bad in the SB
-Runed Halo is great, I will play 2 main at least and likely 2 SB (or 3-1 maybe)
-Combo is really really bad matchup, Ant (and similar) especially
-It’s a FUN deck to play but could use something to become more pro-active or faster

[Waikiki]

Hi all,

Second game she pulled 2 Pyrokinesis on me and I was low in life.

I would read that card again, It cannot target players :(

[Just me]

Hmmz, that's cheating then...
And even though you're right, it was not really an option, being a French card and all...
I just assumed she knew what it did and what decent burn doesn't go to the dome?

Nevertheless, something to add to 'lessons learned'.

[JrGman2004]

Hey Guys. Back from the Star City Games 5K in Orlando this weekend. Decided to play Enchantress instead of Pro Bant this weekend and did pretty well. Went 5-2 and took 19th out of 122. Just need about 4% points better on my opponent match record and I would have broken the top 16. I also only say 2 other Enchantress decks. One guy I talked to punted his last 2 rounds and ended up 4-3. He was running a Chrome Mox build. I don't really like it, and couldn't justify taking out things like Wild Growth and Utopia Sprawl to that net me a lot of cards for the Chrome Moxes.

Here's my list.

Creatures
4x Argothian Enchantress

Spells
1x Enlightened Tutor
2x Replenish

Enchantments
4x Enchantress's Presence
4x Utopia Sprawl
3x Wild Growth
4x Sterling Grove
3x Solitary Confinement
1x Moat
1x Ground Seal
1x Karmic Justice
1x Concordant Crossroads
1x City of Solitude
2x Runed Halo
2x Oblivion Ring
2x Elephant Grass
2x Sigil of the Empty Throne
1x Words of War

Lands
6x Forest
5x Plains
2x Savannah
2x Taiga
2x Serra's Sanctum
4x Windswept Heath

Sideboard
3x Mindbreak Trap
2x Tormod's Crypt
2x Sacred Ground
2x Runed Halo
2x Wheel of Sun and Moon
1x Circle of Protection: Red
1x Aura of Silence
2x Vexing Shusher

Wow, took me a while to remember all of that from memory. Was sitting there blanking for 10 minutes on the Vexing Shushers.

Ok, I also don't have my notes with me from every match, so trying to do this from memory.

Round 1 - Merfolk... 2-0, 1-0

Pretty easy match up. Guy looked like a serious player, had that demeanor. Said he had only just started playing the deck. I kind of doubt it, but who knows. Got Solitary lock down pretty quick in G1, and did the same in G2. He was not happy, but I certainly was. I wanted to see more Fish, lol.

SB: +2 Vexing Shusher, -1 Ground Seal, -1 Concordant Crossroads

Round 2 - 43 Lands... 0-2, 1-1

Never played against 43 lands. Only have a vague idea of what to do against them. Seems like it should be a pretty normal goldfishing match up. Only problem was he kept me off my green with 2 early Rishadan Ports. I finally got close to beating him in G1, and he put the Mindslaver lock on me. Nothing I could do at that point. G2, I scooped a few turns in. I missed a Tabernacle trigger on Argothian, and had already drawn for playing an Enchantment. So I just said oh well, and scooped.

SB: Don't remember what I did.

Round 3 - Metalworker/Fireball... 2-0, 2-1

Didn't see much during Game 1 and just goldfished my way to smashing his face with some 4/4 Angels. All I saw from him was 2 pieces of Urzatron, mountains, a Red Mana Myr, and Silent Arbiter. Had to guess a little on the sideboard, but saw neither piece and didn't matter much anyways. G2 I saw Metalworker come out and he dropped a Platy Angel. Angel saw a quick ORing, and Metalworker got shocked out by Words of War. Was another quick match, though he did get me down to 5 with Platy Angel smack and a Fireball for 11.

SB: +1 Aura of Silence, +1 CoP: Red, -1 Ground Seal, -1 City of Solitude

Round 4 - Naya Zoo... 2-0, 3-1

G1 was tight. He got me down to 3, so I was sweating bullets since he could top a Bolt, Helix, or Chain Lightning and kill me and I never saw Solitary. But, I did get a Runed Halo down at the right time. Got a chump or two out of Argothian Enchantress before getting a Sigil Down. Got a few beats in and dropped a Concordant Crossroads to beat his face for lethal. G2 went about the same way, but he dropped 2 early Qasali Pridemages. I dropped an early Sterling Grove, then snuck a 2nd one in when he tapped out. From there it was a shaky trip to the end. Another chump with Argothian saved me a turn and then I was able to drop a Moat behind the double Sterling Groves. He scooped shortly after.

SB: +1 CoP: Red, +2 Runed Halo, -1 Ground Seal, -1 City of Solitude, -1 Concordant Crossroads

Round 5 - AggroLoam... 0-2, 3-2

By Round 4, I had developed a Migraine and was starting to feel like crap. So I probably didn't make some of the greatest decisions in this round. Not a whole lot to talk about with it though. I mulled to 5 in G1, took forever to get to 3 lands, and when I did, it was a Dual, when I needed a basic to avoid Wasteland. I had 2 Solitarys, a Karmic Justice, and 2 other 3 CMC spells in hand. So I played a Solitary to save me a turn, but he wasted the Taiga and I had to let the Solitary go. Drew a card, and it was an Elephant Grass. That didn't work. Needed a basic land. G2, I mulled to 6 and took a single Plains hand. Stupid mistake. The first 7 probably woulda been better. It at least had some sideboard cards, but was just a Forest with 2 Utopia Sprawls and a Wild Growth. I scooped after a T3 Crusher and me not seeing a land yet.

SB: I don't remember now. I was feeling like crap. I also ALMOST dropped after this. I had actually initialed to drop... but then I was like wait... it's just two more rounds, I will be kicking myself if I drop. So I scratched it out, wrote NOT DROPPING and circled and initialed it several times and reiterated that to the judge when he picked up the slip.

Round 6 - Eva Green... 2-0, 4-2

G1 he got a little manascrewed and I had a decently good hand. He got stuck on a Swamp and a Wasteland. But I'm really glad I fetched a Basic forest with the T1 Fetch since I didn't know what he had. But with him needing another black, he found a Bayou way too late. I've also had a lot of experience with the MBA match up, and it really isn't all that much difference, with the exception of him having Pernicious Deed and Goyf, but Goyf is just another big beater. G2 was a little dicier. He dropped a Goyf, I ORinged it. He dropped Double Goyf... I went... Ewww!!! Popped the Sterling Grove during my upkeep, thought for a second to get Runed Halo, but then decided Moat was a better choice. Got that and dropped it. His next turn he dropped a Tombstalker. Turn after that he hit me in the face, then dropped a Hippie. I was able to drop Words of War, and shocked out Hippie and Tombstalker. From there, I was able to drop the Sigil of the Empty Throne, and burn his face then swing in with an Angel the next turn for the win. Fun match up, and one I know I can win, especially against someone that hasn't played much against Enchantress. My friend playing MBA knows how to pick me apart and he beats me somewhat regularly, but I got this guy pretty well.

SB: +2 Runed Halo, +1 Sacred Ground, -1 Ground Seal, -1 Concordant Crossroads, -1 City of Solitude

Round 7 - Fish... 2-0, 5-2

Easy as pie match up. He didn't do much except for a few Stifles and then dropped a few creatures. Actually, he didn't do anything until like T5, which was weird. I got Solitary Lockdown and he scooped after that since I had 3 draw effects on board. G2 went pretty much the same way and he scooped quickly.

SB: +2 Vexing Shusher, +1 Sacred Ground, -1 Ground Seal, -1 Concordant Crossroads, -1 Wild Growth

Overall, I had a good time. A little disappointed about the 2 loses since they were ones I could have won, but still excited about the 5-2 record. Very very very very very glad that I NEVER saw combo! WOOOO!!!! Wanted to see aggro all day, and that's pretty much what I saw. Inexperience with 43 Lands hurt me in that match, and manascrew killed me in AggroLoam, and I know that's a match I can win, especially with a quick Solitary Lockdown.

I had a great time. Really enjoyed it. Really didn't play against any nasty players, almost everyone was nice and I chatted with most of my opponents after the match and talked about the game, both decks, and the match up. A few were interested in what they could do to beat the deck if they came across the deck again.

And, I'm anxiously awaiting to see my rating after this weekend. I've slowly been building up my Eternal rating over the last 9 months. I had almost made it to 1800. I had gotten to like 1796 before losing a round, then went 1-1-1 the next week and lost a few points and I think 1-1, drop the week after that. Also went 1-2 in Grinders on Saturday. But I anxiously await to see the update.

[dontbiteitholmes]

Nice job. Not a bad showing if you ask me. Now a few questions.
#1: Why do you play Concordant Crossroads? Seems like a really bad card 99% of the time. The only time I would ever want to drop this would be if I was 100% sure I was going to swing for the win and at that point dropping a Solitary Confinement and waiting until next turn would be just as good. It would really suck if you had to play this to continue your draw engine against Aggro. Really seems like a card that helps the opponent more than it helps you.
#2: How did the E. Tutor, City of Solitude, and Karmic Justice MD work out for you?
#3: Did you ever wish you ran more than 2 Elephant Grasses. This is a card I never wanted to have less than 3 of.
#4: Looking back how did your mana base work out? Do you really feel like you need 2 Taigas as opposed to 1 and do you feel like you ran too many basic plains?
#5: Aside from the matchup with the Eva Green did Karmic Justice warrant a MD slot or is it something you would move to the sideboard?
#6: Looking back how would you change your sideboard?

[Sevryn]

Round 2 - 43 Lands... 0-2, 1-1

Never played against 43 lands. Only have a vague idea of what to do against them. Seems like it should be a pretty normal goldfishing match up. Only problem was he kept me off my green with 2 early Rishadan Ports. I finally got close to beating him in G1, and he put the Mindslaver lock on me. Nothing I could do at that point. G2, I scooped a few turns in. I missed a Tabernacle trigger on Argothian, and had already drawn for playing an Enchantment. So I just said oh well, and scooped.

I don't have much experience with the matchup either, but it is helpful to have either Blood Moon or Ground Seal in your maindeck as a 1 of. Blood Moon shuts down their whole deck; turn 2 Grove turn 3 Moon will elicit a scoop. Ground Seal shuts off Life from the Loam, which can buy you some time. If they run Crucible of Worlds to recur Glacial Chasm, you need to O-Ring the Crucible. They have no way to deal with Confinement, but it can be hard to get it up quickly with so much mana denial.

Round 5 - AggroLoam... 0-2, 3-2

By Round 4, I had developed a Migraine and was starting to feel like crap. So I probably didn't make some of the greatest decisions in this round. Not a whole lot to talk about with it though. I mulled to 5 in G1, took forever to get to 3 lands, and when I did, it was a Dual, when I needed a basic to avoid Wasteland. I had 2 Solitarys, a Karmic Justice, and 2 other 3 CMC spells in hand. So I played a Solitary to save me a turn, but he wasted the Taiga and I had to let the Solitary go. Drew a card, and it was an Elephant Grass. That didn't work. Needed a basic land. G2, I mulled to 6 and took a single Plains hand. Stupid mistake. The first 7 probably woulda been better. It at least had some sideboard cards, but was just a Forest with 2 Utopia Sprawls and a Wild Growth. I scooped after a T3 Crusher and me not seeing a land yet.

I kept almost that exact hand you had game 2. Didn't draw an enchantress and lost to simple Goyf beats. I learned my lesson: don't look for SB cards in your opening hand, your plan A is to tutor for them. Running 1-2 additional Enlightened Tutors in your SB can really help with this.


As far as your list, I really like it. I would maybe just bite the bullet and go for 4 Savannahs so that you can always support Runed Halo, and can run Story Circle instead of CoP: Red.

[anonymos]

; turn 2 Grove turn 3 Moon will elicit a scoop.

I almost agree with this. The only reason I don't is if they manage to drop their one basic forest early and or have EE and Mox Diamonds. They can get out of it, but it's amazingly horrible for them to do it. I had one person in Indy break it on me. I had Replenish handy, so it didn't matter, but they can break it still.

[JrGman2004]

Nice job. Not a bad showing if you ask me. Now a few questions.
#1: Why do you play Concordant Crossroads? Seems like a really bad card 99% of the time. The only time I would ever want to drop this would be if I was 100% sure I was going to swing for the win and at that point dropping a Solitary Confinement and waiting until next turn would be just as good. It would really suck if you had to play this to continue your draw engine against Aggro. Really seems like a card that helps the opponent more than it helps you.
#2: How did the E. Tutor, City of Solitude, and Karmic Justice MD work out for you?
#3: Did you ever wish you ran more than 2 Elephant Grasses. This is a card I never wanted to have less than 3 of.
#4: Looking back how did your mana base work out? Do you really feel like you need 2 Taigas as opposed to 1 and do you feel like you ran too many basic plains?
#5: Aside from the matchup with the Eva Green did Karmic Justice warrant a MD slot or is it something you would move to the sideboard?
#6: Looking back how would you change your sideboard?

#1. This was a card that I've played with quite a bit. And I can tell you, there were games where it won me the game because it let me combo out, drop it, and have enough angels to swing for game. And as we know, you don't always find the Solitary that you need. It's the first card I side out, but it's just one of those things that it can let me win a turn earlier and not take a risk of waiting another turn and my opponent pulling an answer (for example... Fracturing Gust was getting common in my local meta). A great example would be that Zoo match up. I dropped the Crossroads and swung for game when I was at 3 life. What if I had waited one more turn and he topped that Bolt, Helix, or Chain Lightning and burned me out? Instead, I won Game 1.
#2. Obviously I saw Sterling Grove more often. This was the first time I've run with E. Tutor, so I can't make a very informed opinion on it yet. But there was a few times where I was able to wait to see what my Aggroy apponent dropped, and then decide on what to get with E Tutor at the end of the their turn.
#3. Uhm... I never really had a problem with not having Elephant Grass. I played it more than a few times for the draw, but then let it die the next turn. Against a faster aggro deck like Goblins, I'd be wishing more... but it seems that there aren't too many aggro decks that come out swinging as fast as them, though Zoo certainly did. And having an Early Grass against him would have slowed him down. I wanted to fit the other 2 into the board, but couldn't find room.
#4. My manabase worked great. I always want to run 2 Taigas in case one gets destroyed. It gives me 5 more top deck options when I need that red. That's 4 Fetchs and the extra Taiga, plus the Utopia Sprawls. When I needed Red, I never had a problem getting it. And of course, I try to hide the Taigas in the first game. I probably could have dropped a Plains for a Forest, but it was rarely a problem. And there's still a lot of white cards in the deck.
#5. I think I need more testing with Karmic Justice before I make a decision. It actually never let me Vindicate anything, but of course dropping it adds the threat of doing so. I also realized that bringing in Sacred Ground against decks with Wastelands isn't always the right call, unless they are a Loam deck. And of course black decks running Sink Hole it's a good sideboard choice.
#6. I liked my sideboard. I talked about it a good bit with my play group. I've played Enchantress with 2 of them extensively and the other is a semi-pro (and took 12th with Dredge) to make up my mind about the board. 3x Mindbreak Trap is 100% necessary, IMO. It let my one friend playing RB Goblins beat ANT. That usually doesn't happen. 2x Tormod's Crypt is fine, and with E. Tutor, I can fetch it. 2x Sacred Ground I'm unsure of. I might drop it to 1x. 2x Runed Halo, MVP card. Love having 2 in the main and bring the 2 in from the board against one trick pony decks. Works well against ANT and Reanimator, but can also save your ass against something like MBA... drop a Moat and drop Runed Halo and call Tombstalker. Or against anything running UG, call Trygon Predator. Such a great silver bullet card. Or against Dredge, you can even call Cabal Therapy if you want. Or against 43 Lands, if I had called Mindslaver, I would have won that G1. 2x Wheel of Sun and Moon is a definate. I'm considering moving 1 to the main. Maybe switch it with Karmic Justice. It's something that would help the Reanimator and Dredge match ups in G1. CoP: Red is mostly in there for going up against Burn. That is a tough tough tough match up, IMO. That's one where you have to be on a T3 Lockdown or you lost. Plain and simple. 1x Aura of Silence. I wouldn't bring it in against combo, because it's too slow... I don't want to be dropping it turn 3, but against Raffinity it's great, as well as in the mirror. Also against Mono White Stax, I would definately bring that in. Probably against StifleNought as well. 2x Vexing Susher. I likes it a lot. It helped me seal the deal G2 in the last round against fish.

One of the things that I think I got lucky on, I only had 3 rounds where I saw blue, and one of those was a non-countering match up. I never saw Combo, except for that Metalworker/Fireball deck. I never saw any CounterTop. So, I did get lucky in my match ups. I know there was a lot of CounterTop around. I saw it every where I looked, but I never ran into it.

Oh, BTW, the AggroLoam deck that I lost to, took 2nd place.

[JrGman2004]

I don't have much experience with the matchup either, but it is helpful to have either Blood Moon or Ground Seal in your maindeck as a 1 of. Blood Moon shuts down their whole deck; turn 2 Grove turn 3 Moon will elicit a scoop. Ground Seal shuts off Life from the Loam, which can buy you some time. If they run Crucible of Worlds to recur Glacial Chasm, you need to O-Ring the Crucible. They have no way to deal with Confinement, but it can be hard to get it up quickly with so much mana denial.


I kept almost that exact hand you had game 2. Didn't draw an enchantress and lost to simple Goyf beats. I learned my lesson: don't look for SB cards in your opening hand, your plan A is to tutor for them. Running 1-2 additional Enlightened Tutors in your SB can really help with this.


As far as your list, I really like it. I would maybe just bite the bullet and go for 4 Savannahs so that you can always support Runed Halo, and can run Story Circle instead of CoP: Red.

Thanks. And you're right about looking for sideboard cards. I also was really feeling crappy at that point and probably didn't make great decisions anyways because my head was killing me so bad.

I was very tempted to run Story Circle... I was just scared of the Double White and the needing white to activate it. Also, CoP: Red will be a turn quicker against MonoRedBurn, the primary reason to have it. But it also comes in against ProBant. I was also thinking about running a CoP: Green for the Zoo and Goyf matches. I'm thinking about doing the StarCity event in Atlanta, so me and a friend are going to be doing some work on serious playtesting over the next month. Changes I'm already considering... -1 Sacred Ground from the board. Move Karmic Justice to the board. Move a Wheel of Sun and Moon into the Main. Add a Blood Moon to the board.

[Sevryn]

Thanks. And you're right about looking for sideboard cards. I also was really feeling crappy at that point and probably didn't make great decisions anyways because my head was killing me so bad.

I was very tempted to run Story Circle... I was just scared of the Double White and the needing white to activate it. Also, CoP: Red will be a turn quicker against MonoRedBurn, the primary reason to have it. But it also comes in against ProBant. I was also thinking about running a CoP: Green for the Zoo and Goyf matches. I'm thinking about doing the StarCity event in Atlanta, so me and a friend are going to be doing some work on serious playtesting over the next month. Changes I'm already considering... -1 Sacred Ground from the board. Move Karmic Justice to the board. Move a Wheel of Sun and Moon into the Main. Add a Blood Moon to the board.

I would run a singleton copy of Ground Seal maindeck (as you already are) instead of Wheel, because at least when it is useless it still cantrips, and sometimes it's very useful. Wheel can be a dead draw in game 1.

I would replace the 2 Tormod's Crypts with 2 Wheel of Sun and Moon.

An alternative to CoP: Red is Warmth, you should at least test it to see if you like it. Although, Burn.dec is completely dead to a supported Confinement, and can only interact with you by killing Argothian Enchantresses with sweepers. This matchup is very solid with 4 Groves and 3 Confinements main deck, I wouldn't worry about it too much. The anti-red enchantments are decent against Zoo/Sligh in addition to Burn.

I would shift your mana base to 1 Taiga/3 Savannah instead of a 2/2 split. Red mana is easy to find when you need it between Utopia Sprawl and Windswept Heath, the second Taiga doesn't add much utility. The third Savannah helps with casting Runed Halo.

And finally, I would cut one of the Sacred Grounds and add an Enlightened Tutor to your board. Bringing in one more tutor with 2-5+ powerful cards is strong in games 2 and 3. If you wanted to cut Sacred Ground entirely, I'd consider adding a 3rd Replenish to your board against blue decks, or if you feel that is unneeded, a Blood Moon instead.

[anonymos]

You keep mentioning different things to help you with reanimator, but if they stick an Iona you only have 2 cards in the deck that can reasonably deal with it. I'm not counting WoW in this as it is a bit of a stretch. 2 Oblivion Rings are your only answer to a stuck Iona. I would suggest moving to a 1-1 split with Lignify. This way you can play turn 2 Grove and break it after they drop Iona to get the other color answer. At least this way they can't just name white and shut you off of ever getting rid of it. Lignify is also good in other matches where you can shut off big guys. I know I've shut off some mighty big Knights of the Reliquary and 'goyf with it.

[JrGman2004]

My friend was playing a wierd combo mill deck, and he played against the huge deck guy in his last round. Of course he sits down and swears when he sees the guys massive deck. Apparently it was like a 500 card deck, and it was not the deck that wins if you have 200 cards in your deck. It was just a bunch of old cards that he liked playing with. He also got deck checked in the first round. He came to the tourney with his deck in two different types of sleeves. Completely filled up his registration form, front and back. Then desleeved, realized that a lot of cards weren't playable without sleeves because of being worn and such. So he lists in the sideboard section all the cards he took out. Insanely crazy...

Anyways, was good meeting you. I'm hoping to get up there for the Atlanta 5K, but don't know if I can make it work it.

[wcm8]

I'd really appreciate some critiques of my list. I'm playing in a local tournament this weekend and would like some tweak suggestions from those that have been playing the deck a lot.

20 land:
4 windswept heath
2 savannah
1 taiga
3 plains
8 forest
2 serra's sanctum

33 engine/staples:
4 argothian
4 presence
3 wild growth
4 utopia sprawl
4 sterling grove
4 elephant grass
3 solitary confinement
2 replenish
1 moat
2 sigil of the empty throne
1 words of war

7 utility:
1 runed halo
1 enlightened tutor
2 ground seal
1 city of solitude
2 oblivion ring
1 lignify

SB:
2 choke
2 runed halo
1 CoP: Red
1 compost
2 relic of progenitus
2 faerie macabre
1 noetic scales
1 replenish
1 karmic justice
2 aura of silence

Rational:
I like 3 confinement, because I hate having to dig for them. They are usually necessary to stay alive until the turning point of the game, usually around turn 5. I understand a lot of decks drop down to 2, but even if it just functions as a one-turn Fog I think it's fine.

I run 11 basics because there's a lot of wastelands around here. I've considered Karakas, but it's always underperformed and is un-tutorable in this deck.

4 grass and 4 grove instead of 3-ofs. I want my game 1 aggro matchup to be as good as it can be, and the groves help ensure victory vs. bounce or targeted destruction. However, since I do run 1 e tutor main deck, should I consider dropping either it or 1 of the groves?

I run 7 land auras because I see the acceleration package as mostly unneeded. Getting a turn 1 enchantress out is nice, but at the expense of card advantage.. I might consider trying to fit 2 Exploration in somewhere, because at least they will help out late game as well. What cards would you suggest I drop for these, or are they even worth it?

1 lignify is in case I face Iona, but is also helpful against a bunch of other random junk.

Ground seal and City of Solitude. Often times get sided out, but can really help out game one against some decks.

I run 3 win-conditions, but think it may be better to drop down to 2 and use the other slot for either a silver bullet or a catch-all like another O Ring. Has anyone done extensive testing between running 2 vs 3? And if so, is the risk of decking yourself worth keeping War in over 2 sigils? Either one wins, but I do feel that the less chance you give your opponent to recover, the better. That said, I don't typically end up killing them in one turn with War.

[wcm8]

double post, sorry

[Oiolosse]

My friend was playing a wierd combo mill deck, and he played against the huge deck guy in his last round. Of course he sits down and swears when he sees the guys massive deck. Apparently it was like a 500 card deck, and it was not the deck that wins if you have 200 cards in your deck. It was just a bunch of old cards that he liked playing with. He also got deck checked in the first round. He came to the tourney with his deck in two different types of sleeves. Completely filled up his registration form, front and back. Then desleeved, realized that a lot of cards weren't playable without sleeves because of being worn and such. So he lists in the sideboard section all the cards he took out. Insanely crazy...

Anyways, was good meeting you. I'm hoping to get up there for the Atlanta 5K, but don't know if I can make it work it.

hahahaha, I can't stop laughing, I love the visual.haha thanks man

@WCM8--sacrament will take out all of your win cons and that can be turn uno. I know four wincons feels like alot but may be necessary

[wcm8]

re: sadistic sacrament, it seems like this card is only going to show up in some sort of mono-black build which will be a pretty hard matchup regardless. I'm not sure if you should construct your deck around to play around it, because if it is going to show up, what's to say that it won't be in multiples or be in a deck with recursion like the Rock? If it catches on, sure it might be a concern, but as of now it seems like a pretty uncommon threat. I guess your best hope is that a) you don't ever see it in a tournament, or b) if you do, it's a sideboard card and if you won game one, then hopefully you can stall out the match and get a draw or make your opponent deck themselves somehow (hard to do without WoWar, but maybe you can hide behind a confinement for awhile.)

[JrGman2004]

re: sadistic sacrament, it seems like this card is only going to show up in some sort of mono-black build which will be a pretty hard matchup regardless. I'm not sure if you should construct your deck around to play around it, because if it is going to show up, what's to say that it won't be in multiples or be in a deck with recursion like the Rock? If it catches on, sure it might be a concern, but as of now it seems like a pretty uncommon threat. I guess your best hope is that a) you don't ever see it in a tournament, or b) if you do, it's a sideboard card and if you won game one, then hopefully you can stall out the match and get a draw or make your opponent deck themselves somehow (hard to do without WoWar, but maybe you can hide behind a confinement for awhile.)

I actually had to start sideboarding an extra Sigil and extra Words of War because one of the top guys runs MBA and started running Sacrament in the board. However, I believe that that is an uncommon occurence in a big tournament scene. We're also one of the few decks that it is huge against, so unless Enchantress becomes a dominating deck presence, we're not going to see Sacrament coming out of the board. BTW, even in Eva Green, it's not hard to get trip black, especially with Dark Rits around.

Ok, on to my comments about your deck.

I would like to see you put another Runed Halo in. (I would probably drop a Ground Seal.) It's such an awesome card in almost any match up. Getting your face beat in by a team of Goyfs? Drop it and call Goyf. You can even call things like Duress and Thoughtseize with it, or Progenitus. It's a huge card. Oh, plus Trygon Predator. He's such a wrecker... Also, if you see your opponent is playing ANT, you can try and drop it quick to call Tendrils, since your only other option is a Solitary Lock quickly. And in almost any match up, being able to drop Solitary and keep it going on Turn 3 will win the game. I would 150% definately keep 4 Sterling Groves. It is WAY too good not just because it's a tutor, but because it protects your enchantments. In a game against Naya Zoo, my opponent dropped a Pridemage on T2 and I followed up with a Argothian and then T3 Sterling Grove. 3 or 4 turns later he tapped out and dropped a Goyf and another Pridemage, so I snuck in my 2nd Sterling Grove. That was his inexperience there. Now my enchantments were protected. I ORinged his Teeg and dropped Moat.

I also think you need to keep in WoW. It can occasionally be a beast against Aggro. You can be on the ropes, and drop WoW, and skip a few draws and burn out your opponents creatures. Might be what you need to give yourself a turn to stabilize and then go for the win.

As for sideboard, 3 Mindbreak Traps is a no questions asked absolutely must have in your board. And it's a cheap card right now. You can pick them up for $3 a piece. Compost is ok, but only really good against MBA and Eva Green. It is not good against dredge. He will beat your face in way too quickly. You could put Leyline of the Voids in or Wheel of Sun and Moon for the Dredge match. They also do well against Loam decks and if you run up against some mill deck, you can always target yourself with the Wheel.

Also, in regards in MBA... that match up is 50-50 and that's if your opponent knows how Enchantress works. If they are inexperienced with Enchantress, then your percentages go up. You often need to keep a hand with 2 draw effects so that if they Thoughtseize or Duress on T1 they can only hit one and then hope that the Hymn doesn't get the other. I've had A LOT of practice with that match up and it really does tend to be a bit luck base. But my friend also knows what cards to hit. Sometimes your opponent will read Solitary and say "Oh! That's gotta go! Can't deal with that!" but that's usually not the right call, unless you already have multiple draw cards in your hand. We all know that you have to have draw effects to keep Solitary going, but not all of your opponents are going to realize that.

[wcm8]

Appreciate the feedback. I dropped a ground seal for a halo.

Mindbreak trap seems pretty bad to me.
1. It's not an enchantment, so it can't be tutored for.
2. They have Duress/other discard, Orim's Chant, Xantid Swarm... If they think you are going to interfere with their combo, you are going to see these to protect it in advance of them going off.
3. If you want to interfere with ANT, it seems like Aura of Silence + additional Runed Halos might be best. AoS will pretty much make any petals, moxes, or LEDs they draw useless and interfere with their ability to go off, while also still being synergistic with your deck, AS WELL as being useful against other matchups.
4. IF you are in a combo heavy meta, enchantress isn't a good deck to play, unless you feel like packing your sideboard with more anti-combo stuff.

Maybe something like Angel's Grace or Orim's Chant would be better, in addition to the AoS and Halo?

[anonymos]

Also, just noticed something about City of Solitude... In general it will never be detrimental to you, but be aware that it will turn off your ability to use Karmic Justice in most scenarios

Wrong. Karmic Justice is triggered. It's going to happen.

Your sideboard is kind of odd. Other than a MBC and something with Iona (2 decks that I can think of run her), what do you expect to be seeing? That will make a huge difference. Is this a 50+ person tournament or a local 8-10 person deal? It makes a big difference on how you should build your board. The latter can make your sideboard amazing as you can plan 2-3 hate cards for each person that way instead of needing stuff that turns out to be useless. Your sideboard looks REALLY geared to try to beat reanimator and then has a couple cards for other stuff.

[caiomarcos]

I also play with 3 win cons, either WoW + 2x Sigil or WoW + Sigil + Sacred Mesa.

I lost already two games because my win cons were removed, once by Sacrement and once by Earwig Squad. I'm really considering having one more win con on the sideboard.

[wcm8]

Wrong. Karmic Justice is triggered. It's going to happen.

Your sideboard is kind of odd. Other than a MBC and something with Iona (2 decks that I can think of run her), what do you expect to be seeing? That will make a huge difference. Is this a 50+ person tournament or a local 8-10 person deal? It makes a big difference on how you should build your board. The latter can make your sideboard amazing as you can plan 2-3 hate cards for each person that way instead of needing stuff that turns out to be useless. Your sideboard looks REALLY geared to try to beat reanimator and then has a couple cards for other stuff.

Thanks for the clarification re: Justice. I need to brush up on my rules.

The sideboard is kind of odd I suppose, but I don't really expect to see too much combo. I will be most likely seeing Iona vs. Reanimator or Dredge. If you were to suggest a sideboard list for a small 20-30 man tournament, what would you be bringing?

[JrGman2004]

Thanks for the clarification re: Justice. I need to brush up on my rules.

The sideboard is kind of odd I suppose, but I don't really expect to see too much combo. I will be most likely seeing Iona vs. Reanimator or Dredge. If you were to suggest a sideboard list for a small 20-30 man tournament, what would you be bringing?

It really depends on if you expect it to be a developed meta or undeveloped. Like, in my meta, Choke is an almost dead card. I'm about the only one that plays blue and when I play Enchantress, the only other deck is a DreadStill deck.

Here's about what I would do for a unknown meta...

3x Mindbreak Trap
3x Tormod's Crypt
1x CoP: Red
1x CoP: Green
2x Wheel of Sun and Moon
2x Runed Halo
2x Oblivion Ring
1x Aura of Silence

[JrGman2004]

I also play with 3 win cons, either WoW + 2x Sigil or WoW + Sigil + Sacred Mesa.

I lost already two games because my win cons were removed, once by Sacrement and once by Earwig Squad. I'm really considering having one more win con on the sideboard.

And you might start seeing more Earwig Squads in RB Goblin Decks since the guy that won the SCG in Orlando ran it. It's a good card against combo and even against control it can be good. Hell, it's good even just to look at your opponents deck.

[anonymos]

A sideboard really depends on what you plan to see and exactly how your list is build AND how you play it. A great example of this is me and my Solitary Confinements. I will use them early as a pseudo time walk, maybe even hold them for a turn if I have a single enchantress effect. I have no intention of completely holing up inside the bubble at that point, just trying to buy time for better answers. I know others don't do this. It's the reason I run a 4th Confinement in my board for the aggro matchup to help make more breathing room.

Locally, Reanimator is only really played by one guy. As such, my plans for it are rather weak. My biggest suggestion against them is to drop a turn 2 Sterling Grove. It gives you the ability to grab a hate card (O. Ring or Lignify) to break their Iona.

Am I the only one that feels City of Solitude is underperforming lately? I haven't used mine in a couple of months.

[Dark Ritual]

Best play against reanimator is turn 1 or 2 ground seal before they reanimate. Then they sit there, trying to use show and tell to cheat a guy into play. What I love doing against show and tell is when it resolves, put a runed halo into play naming the card they just put into play. Seriously, I love the reanimator MU a LOT and I am not even playing lignify....yet. But yeah, ground seal is certainly handy against them and when you play it G1 and it resolves they go oh shit....MD hate. But the greatest play is probably turn 1 seal, turn 2 sterling grove to give it shroud. Nevertheless, sterling grove is very good if they go the Iona route since you can cast it before they combo and then crack it to get a color specific removal spell for the appropiate color.

On a sidenote, what do you guys suggest doing if they go the inkwell leviathan route? It seems like you either need to get a lot of elephant grass in play or just set up solitary lockdown since it has shroud.

[wcm8]

Ground seal is only going to delay them for a turn or two at most. Exhume is non-targeted, and as you said, show and tell gets around it. The best answer would be something that removes the graveyard, because they have other answers to ground seal.


And for inkwell, you have grass, confinement, and runed halo.

I think reanimator is a hard matchup. Even if they don't bring in Iona (which is difficult enough to deal with), they can bring in terastodon and wipe your early-game board.

I think packing some hate is good for the sideboard. What's good against reanimator is generally good against dredge, and recursion decks like aggro loam.

[Dark Ritual]

And if they don't have exhume they straight lose, like I said. Sure they have good card selection via ponder, brainstorm, fetchlands, and mystical tutor, but if they don't have a for sure way of getting exhume like mystical tutor, they will lose.

Oh and I just realized inkwell leviathan is incredibly easy to handle with runed halo I just find myself liking runed halo more and more. So good against a lot of decks especially reanimator.

[wcm8]

No, they won't lose to a Ground Seal. You just mentioned 3 digging cards, and most reanimator decks run 4 exhumes. They also pack some discard and other protective stuff. If they get one fatty into play, you are on a very short clock. And unfortunately, Enchantress is a relatively slow deck that will have a lot trouble catching up.

Ground Seal's inclusion is questionable, but it does perform well against a deck packing stuff like Loam, Witness, Volrath's Stronghold, etc.

[anonymos]

So my friend and I were joking around yesterday about playing a GBw Enchantress list to mess with people. We were looking for enchantments in the color that seemed useful and ran across Sanguine Bond. We immediately went to work making jokes about cards we could play with it to "win". Then I brought up Words of Wisdom. We actually stopped for a minute because it sounded silly. Here's the question. Can we board 1-2 of them solely to win the ANT match? I think 1 use makes them miserable and a 2nd pretty much wins.

[Meister_Kai]

So my friend and I were joking around yesterday about playing a GBw Enchantress list to mess with people. We were looking for enchantments in the color that seemed useful and ran across Sanguine Bond. We immediately went to work making jokes about cards we could play with it to "win". Then I brought up Words of Wisdom. We actually stopped for a minute because it sounded silly. Here's the question. Can we board 1-2 of them solely to win the ANT match? I think 1 use makes them miserable and a 2nd pretty much wins.

No way dude, you would have to live to play it, then live long enough to activate it. I would wager that Runed Halo is your best bet and that even that is rarely enough.

I just stopped trying to fight combo period in my build. I would suggest you just take the loss and if combo is really big in your meta, you should play another deck.

[wcm8]

Agreed. Halo is the best bet and worthy as a 2/2 split main/SB, but beyond that I'm not sure if you should worry too much about combo. Just hope to not get paired up against it, I guess.

FWIW, I played a small tournament today. (Low turn-out due to Easter weekend, I guess). Anyways, I beat Ichorid, Zoo, Goblins, and lost to Zoo and a legacy Jund.

[JrGman2004]

Agreed. Halo is the best bet and worthy as a 2/2 split main/SB, but beyond that I'm not sure if you should worry too much about combo. Just hope to not get paired up against it, I guess.

FWIW, I played a small tournament today. (Low turn-out due to Easter weekend, I guess). Anyways, I beat Ichorid, Zoo, Goblins, and lost to Zoo and a legacy Jund.

Yeah. Aggro is generally our good match up. Combo is a blow out for them. But that's why I pack 3 Mindbreak Traps in the board, just in case I get lucky. For example... at the SCG 5k, my friend played RB Goblins. His first round match up was ANT. Got smashed in the first game. 2nd game, he put in Mindbreak trap, had one in opening hand and won. 3rd game, the guy had to pitch his silence to Chrome Mox, and my friend had mulled to 6 to find another Mindbreak trap. Opponent scooped g2 and g3 after the trap. ANT is NOT a match up Goblins is supposed to win.

[wcm8]

Mindbreak trap is great for goblins, but Enchantress can tutor for its answers to combo. I'd probably rather run some extra enlightened tutors in the board to get Halo/Canonist/Rule of Law than resort to mulling on games 2/3 for the trap. Maybe its good as an addition to the other slots.

I've been testing recently with 4 Exploration, and actually I kind of like the more combo-ish build. It becomes a lot more explosive around turn 4/5. 4 Sprawl/4 Exploration/2 Growth rounds out my acceleration, as I don't think Chrome Mox/ESG/Petal are very useful past turn 1 or 2. If you can get the engine going, you can pretty easily kill the turn after you drop a Sigil.

I used the list here with some modifications: http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=32315

[JrGman2004]

Mindbreak trap is great for goblins, but Enchantress can tutor for its answers to combo. I'd probably rather run some extra enlightened tutors in the board to get Halo/Canonist/Rule of Law than resort to mulling on games 2/3 for the trap. Maybe its good as an addition to the other slots.

I've been testing recently with 4 Exploration, and actually I kind of like the more combo-ish build. It becomes a lot more explosive around turn 4/5. 4 Sprawl/4 Exploration/2 Growth rounds out my acceleration, as I don't think Chrome Mox/ESG/Petal are very useful past turn 1 or 2. If you can get the engine going, you can pretty easily kill the turn after you drop a Sigil.

I used the list here with some modifications: http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=32315

I really don't see where Mindbreak Trap is good against Goblins. It might let you counter 1 Goblin... if they've played (not vialed) 2 other creatures before it?

And if you look at my list, Mindbreak Trap is not my only answer to combo. I also have 2x Runed Halo in the board, as well as the 2x Runed Halo already in the main. Mindbreak trap is also something that they might not expect you to bring in. They might board out the chants and silences G2 against you since you (normally) wouldn't have counters to stop them. But they probably are going to board in Enchantment hate to get rid of things. I also do not really like dropping Cannonist or Rule of Law because it's going to slow me down and in a tight game, could give them the opportunity to find their enchantment hate and then go off and you've got nothing for them. I would probably also board in Aura of Silence as another card to slow them down and give me an opportunity to win before they find the hate when I drop an early Runed Halo.

[wcm8]

You misunderstood me. Mindbreak Trap is a great sideboard card for Goblins to use, NOT AGAINST goblins. Haha. It was in response to the post above mine.

[JrGman2004]

You misunderstood me. Mindbreak Trap is a great sideboard card for Goblins to use, NOT AGAINST goblins. Haha. It was in response to the post above mine.

*facepalm*

Yeah, that makes more sense. But I think my point still stands. Adding Mindbreak Trap as another option for your opening hand is hard to ignore in addition to your other options in Enchantment form. However, you can't always rely on Sterling Grove T2, pop it during your upkeep for Runed Halo and drop it on T3. Sometimes ANT will kill you before you get to that point. Sure, if I get a hand that will let me do that, I'm going to keep it, rather than risk not getting something in a mulligan.

[wcm8]

For me, the biggest questions in Enchantress are Exploration and/ or Gaea's Touch- 0, 1, 2 or 4 copies?

You need some acceleration, and Enchantress's glaring structural weakness is that it needs to generate way too much mana to win compared to other decks in Legacy. But acceleration is in the form of Petal/ Mox/ ESG/ Wild Growth, at this point Exploration and Gaea's Touch cannot replace primary acceleration. Exploration is rarely an optimal turn 1 play. Gaea's Touch is rarely an optimal turn 2 play. Once you have Enchantress effects out, both are roughly of the same value. Exploration: 1 casting cost- great! Gaea's Touch: pseudo 0 casting cost- great, and you can break it to beat Daze.

Thus the choice becomes:
a. Exploration with its value as a suboptimal turn 1 play
b. Gaea's Touch with its value as a mana efficient Enchantress trigger with some added metagame value against Fish
c. A 3+ casting cost enchantment with more board impact but no impact on turn 1
d. Root Maze with an enhanced value as an asymmetrical turn 1 on the play play


Digging this back up from a couple pages ago, because I do think it is probably the biggest point of contention regarding the deck's construction. Each has their merits, and the way you build the rest of the deck has a lot to do with what you decide. I have tested pretty much all of the configurations of acceleration, so the conclusions are my own...

Here's my take on it, and it's kind of a moderate approach rather than swaying more towards the 'control' or 'combo' side of the deck.
-You most definitely want 4 Utopia Sprawl, I think this is a given and no one would really disagree here. You have enough Forests that playing them shouldn't ever be a problem, and they function pretty well throughout the entire game.
-Wild Growth doesn't really cut it. You already have 4 better land auras, and they will never let you power out a turn one Argothian like ESG/Petal/Mox.
-Regarding the latter, you definitely want at least two accelerators. Right now I am running 2 Mox. Petal and ESG have the advantage of being Daze deterrents, but they also have the detriment of being one-shots as well as feeding Goyf (a minor concern, but the reality of playing Enchantress is that you will often be dipping REALLY low on life before you finally stabilize). Mox IS disadvantage initially, but look at it this way: the opportunity of getting a turn one Argothian out often means that you will be well on your way towards winning (and you will also have it for the remainder of the game unlike Petal/ESG), and later on when you are playing green "brainstorms" the disadvantage becomes minor. I advocate 2 instead of 3 because you don't really want to ever see multiples in the first few turns.
-Exploration is nuts. Anybody thinking it sucks because of the likelihood to be a suboptimal play turn 1 vs. Wild Growth is ignoring the fact that it has utility that replaces itself turn after turn. There are also situations when it's NOT a bad turn 1 play. I'd also rather have it versus a deck packing land destruction. However, 4 seems excessive. I like 2. They can make good hands great, and bad hands playable. Turn 2 Moat vs Goblins or Ichorid? Early game Sigil? All very situational, but you're not always guaranteed an Enchantress in your opening 7 which otherwise would have been a good hand. I'd often rather keep a borderline hand with Exploration in it than risk mulliganing, because you still have a shot of delaying the opponent until you get your engine. Exploration makes it possible.
-Gaea's Touch doesn't make the cut. Seems like too much of a "win more" card to me. The GG cc is very awkward in most situations, in a way that exploration isn't. Also won't let you drop a Sanctum once you're drawing through your deck towards the win.

Now with only 8 slots of acceleration, you have a couple more slots to devote towards silver bullets or catchalls. I'd rather be top-decking an Oblivion Ring than a Wild Growth in most situations (if you have the engine online then its a moot point anyways.) I think 8 is enough to give yourself a decent chance to open with one in a beneficial way, and not so much that you get flooded with useless top-decks. If you REALLY think your build needs to go up to 10, then you can add an additional 2 wild growth.

tldr: 4 Utopia Sprawl, 2 Exploration, 2 Chrome Mox

[wcm8]

Kor Spiritdancer :1::w:
Creature - Kor Wizard (R)
Kor Spiritdancer gets +2/+2 for each Aura attached to it.
Whenever you cast an Aura spell, you may draw a card.
0/2

At first I was like O_O, then I was like -_-. If this card drew whenever you cast any enchantment and not just auras, it might function pretty well here. When are they gonna color-shift Argothian??

[wcm8]

.

[Oiolosse]

It may be good in an aggro based enchantress deck with rancors, flickering ward and the like

[wcm8]

I dunno, I mean it's not like Auratog ever really caught on in Legacy. I wouldn't really want to drop too much of the rest of the deck in favor of subpar Auras just to focus around one card that might or might not swing for 20...

I guess a potential build would look something like

4 Kor Spirit Dancer
4 Argothian Enchantress
4 Enchantress' Presence
4 Worldy Tutor (might as well)
0-2 Auratog (maybe, maybe not)
4 Rancor (the best Aura printed)
4 Spirit Link (functions for your guys, as well as nullifying opponents' creatures)
2/4 Flickering Ward (to make Dancer unblockable and resilient)
0-4 Whipsilk (most just to function as a Draw enabler)
0-2 Empyrial Armor (hell, why not.. you might end up drawing some obnoxious amount of cards)
4 Wild Growth (aura)
4 Utopia Sprawl (aura)
0-4 Exploration
0-3 Chrome Mox
1-2 Concordant Crossroads (a key aspect of winning on one explosive turn)
20 Lands
X other things

You sacrifice long term investment for short term explosiveness. You trade in a slow kill with Sigil/WoWar for a quick one via Spirit Walker or Auratog. I think it could work, but needs testing.

edit: There might also might be a decent Umbra that would fit in, as well as that Future Sight Aura, Daybreak Coronet. Auras might be a viable strategy, as you gain the ridiculous card advantage from Enchantress with explosive attacks. It might be able to function as a pseudo-combo deck that hopes to swing for 20 by turn 4/5 or so.

[anonymos]

Needs something along the lines of trollshroud to be good. It's what makes Uril scary in EDH.

[HPB_Eggo]

http://www.gatheringmagic.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/Awakening-Zone.jpg

Not sure at all if this is worth anything or not, but it seems like it merits at least a bit of testing. The main problem is that it costs three, rather than two or one, but it could still be quite good in some situations.

[wcm8]

Sacred Mesa seems to be strictly better.

edit: I guess that one could be situationally better, but in Enchantress as it is now, no. Doesn't really seem to fit.

[wcm8]

http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/legacy/18922_So_Many_Insane_Plays_Chapin_Was_Right_A_Legacy_Result_Overview.html

"As usual, the three most popular archetypes are Zoo, Countertop, and Merfolk. These constitute the three major pillars of the format. What’s surprising, though, is that Reanimator was the fourth most popular archetype! It came out of nowhere and leaped the other major decks, like Burn, Dredge, Aggro Loam, Suicide Black variants, and Land decks."

Obviously metagames shift, but looking at the statistics of this tournament, how would Enchantress be best able to handle these contenders?

Enchantress can handle Zoo pretty well as it is, provided you don't get a terrible opening hand, so I don't think there's really a need to add additional Moats or Ghostly Prison or whatever. Maybe keep a Cop:Red in your sideboard, and Karmic Justice for their possible Reverent Silences.

With Countertop being a major contender, running a main deck City of Solitude (or two) seems like a good choice, as it also helps against Merefolk. The question becomes if you should leave it at 1-2 Cities, or a 1/1 split with Choke. Despite the discussion about Choke, I think it is a great option -- yes, they have 'free' counters, but they hurt their tempo, especially when they won't be able to attack once you have a Grass out. A resolved Choke wins games, and I think 1 or 2 in the sideboard is essential.

Or perhaps even using a maindeck Blood Moon to shut down fetchlands, duals, and Wastelands? I like using Serra's Sanctum though, so I'm not sure if this will just be a 'win more' card, that can actually end up hurting you nearly as badly. But it could help out some in the Zoo match if you get it out early enough.

Reanimator I feel is a very difficult matchup, but using runed halos, Lignify, and a decent sideboard can help out. Perhaps Karakas as well. Regarding the sideboard, I think for graveyard hate it's between using Crypt, Relic, and Faerie Macabre. Wheel of Sun and Moon seems to be a mediocre option, as you typically don't have to worry too much about the Dredge matchup since you have elephant grass... I guess just be wary of a potential Iona. Faerie seems like an especially good option since it's uncounterable, hits targets, and is free. Unless they print a split second reanimation spell, I don't think Reanimator can do much about it -- and it's really only Iona that's the biggest problem, the others can be handled by the rest of your deck.

I think we should be using this data and that from other tournaments to start trying to make an 'optimized' list. Anyone have suggestions?

My sideboard:
1 - Tormod's Crypt
4 - Faerie Macabre
3 - Mindbreak Trap (these have been working out really well, people don't expect it coming from Enchantress.. thanks for the suggestion)
2 - Runed Halo (2 in the main)
2 - Choke
1 - Karmic Justice
1 - CoP: Red
1 - Aura of Silence

[caiomarcos]

I play 1 Blood Moon maindeck and it is not a win more card, it is a real bomb and wins many games by itself.

[Opax]

Done a 63-person tournament today of the regional league. Here is my report.

List:

2 savannah
1 taiga
4 heath
1 misty
1 karakas
1 plains
2 sanctum
7 forest

8 enchantress
3 grove
3 solitary

3 grass
1 ghostly prison

1 Oblivion ring
1 lignify
1 aura of silence
1 runed halo

3 Esg
4 utopia sprawl
3 Wild growth

2 replenish

3 Mirri's guile
1 ground seal

2 sigil of the empty throne
1 word of war

Side:

2 vexing susher
1 Gaddok teeg
1 Aethersworn canonist
2 E. tutor
1 Wordly tutor
1 sacred ground
1 karmic justice
1 replenish
1 sterling grove
1 runed halo
1 blood moon
1 Cop: red
1 Cop: green

1) Merfolk 2-1: slow start for him give me time to set the lock. he kill me at turn 4. last match i replenish the lock on my last turn of life.

2) tropther Foundry control 1-1: opponent was a friend. he set a counter top lock on turn 2 after 35 min he tutored an humility countering my replenish. 2nd match he screwed and i kill him quite fast. 5 min to the time we decide to have a draw and go to eat instead of playing.

3) UBG ferie 0-2: i mull to 5 1st match he stifled 2 fetch and wasted 2 lands -.- . nice hand but he see 2 toughtsize, 2 waste, 2 deed, 2 explosives, extirpate on grove, 2 krosan and some counter. no way.

4) Supreme blue 2-0: i arrange to survive chaining grove and confinement with only 1 draw effect down. Finally i cast runed halo to stops his 3 goyf on the board. 2nd match was very easy: 1st turn mirri, 2nd susher,3rd grove( krosan grip), 4th grove 5th grove 6th cop green 7th halo on vendilion. game

5) rock 2-1: i mull to 5 an 1 dures + 1 hymn kills mine engine. 2nd Cop green slow him down until grass arrives for his confidant. 3rd with karmic justice on the board he play a pulse on my presence, i kill his bird of paradise and then i resolve a bloodmoon that give me the win.

6)UW aggro control 2-1: he get screwed 1st match so i arrange a easy win. 2nd 2 maddling mage and 1 mother of the rune kills me. 3rd he set out on 4th turn 2 Aura of silence. casting about 1 spell for turn i arrange to beat him down with angel.

I arrange a 8th position so i go to top 8

Zoo: I mull to 5( no enchanterr on 7, no land on 6) after some bolt and some attyack i find myself at 2. with 2 encantress down and 1 solitary i played 2 enchantment and on 4 card i see 4 lands.
nice hand on the match later. i set Cop green, cop red, double grove,and 8 mana i stop him at 2 but he topdecked loam lion -.-
Unlucky match.

By the way i feel quite happy of the result. 8/63

About my deck, i was lucky with pairing but sincelrly there was only 1 belcher, 1 Ant and 1 painter grindstone.

- Susher easily kills countertop and sincerly people don't know how work it around.
- Cop green buy me a lot of match.
- 3rd mirri give me a great advantage with control deck and let me hide cards vs black deck.
- ESG: i noticed putting in the 3rd mirri i find myself always have 1st turn mirri 2nd turn enchantress, i'm thinking to move them in side for combo match up and put some stuff in( like the 3 tutor, or the 4th grove and the 2 E tutor.)
- Sincerly i don't like halo in the stadard match-up, i think its an answer for combo deck. But you don't think so, so i'm playitesting it, we will see.
- I paid a lot the lack of the 4th grass. the 3-1 split with prison is good but holding in only 3 don't let you to cantrip them.
- I'm thinking to switch Karakas for 1 more basic lands.
- Blood moon give me a win but there was 6-7 landstill or similar deck so i think its a good choice for the meta.


Thank you all for the time,
sorry for my bad english.

Let me know what do you think about mine list.
thank you.

[Zappa]

I have recently taken an interest on this deck, and i'm currently hunting the cards for it. I was wondering if I may be able to get some advise for a starting shell for my deck. I have most of the cards but sadly I cannot afford the dual lands and moat. So for now, I was wondering if anyone with experience to the deck, can give me a nice basic shell for my deck, in which my budgeted mana base can support. Here are the cards which I have in my collection at the moment.

//Land Selections
4 Windswept Heath
2 Serra's Sanctuary
X Forests
X Plains
4 Horizon Canopy

//Creatures Selection
4 Argothian Enchantress
4 Yavimaya Enchantress
4 Verduran Enchantress

//Enchantment Selections
4 Enchantress's Prescence
4 Seal of Primordium
4 Seal of Cleansing
1 Holistic Wisdom
4 Solitary Confinement
4 Elephant Grass
4 Ghostly Prison
4 Karmic Justice
4 City of Solitude
4 Wheel of Sun and Moon
4 Ground Seal
1 Words of Wisdom
4 Rule of Law
4 Sterling Grove

//Other things
3 Replenish
2 Hoofprints of the Stag
2 Sigil of the Empty Throne
2 Luminarch Ascension
1 Words of Wilding



That's what I have at the moment for my collection. But I am currently reading through the pages of this thread, and I am getting a bit discouraged as it seems like I'll have difficulty trying to support my deck with such a poor budget mana base, since I am lacking such expensive cards, which are the duals. Can anyone with knowledge of the deck, lead me to a direction on how I can tackle my deck's approach, such as a proper mana base from what I have in my collection to support the deck? It's a bit discouraging since it seems like I have no choice but to get the duals from reading the posts, but as a new comer to this archetype, and having a big financial difficulty to entry, may I get some help from anyone kind enough to lead me to a recommendable mana base as a starting shell? Something which I can play for now and have fun and slowly work my way up upgrading in the future?

Thank you.

PS:
The most frequent decks I see are usually Bant, Survival Bant, pro Bant, Zoo, Merfolk, Threshold, Reanimator, Pox, Dredge and Landstill.

[Just me]

Hi Zappa,

I have no budget on my landbase and I'm using 1 taiga and 1 savannah. I never fetch them because Wasteland hurts so much and you need basic forests for Utopia Sprawl anyway. Windswept Heath is better in this deck as the duals in my opinion. Horizon Canopy I would not use.

4 Windswept Heath
2 Serra's Sanctuum
4 Plains
8 Forest
4 alternate mana sources (Elvish Spirit Guide, Chrome Mox)

Above manabase assumes a standard Enchantress build which goes for control first to buy time (Elephant Grass, Solitary Confinement,...) and the kil later (Sigil of the Empty Throne, Words of War).

Some cards in your list (Yavimaya Enchantress, Verduran Enchantress) do not fit that deck. But maaaybe you can build a different deck, using the Enchantress shell for an aggro apporach, including Yavimaya Enchantress and Auratog abusing Rancors.

[Zappa]

I was trying to justify things also in a way make me feel better that I am more wasteland proof by going with mainly basics. But admit thats just poor excuse to not running them.

I understand that 4 Windswept Heath + 2 Serra's Sanctum is the correct number and obvious choices for what I currently have for my collection. But my struggle is trying to find the ratio of basic forests versus basic plains. I dont wanna run too little plains as to hurt my chances of casting my white business spells, but I also don't want to run too much that it affects my utopia sprawl openings.

I don't really plan on running those 2 other enchantress's but I just felt that I needed to write down the cards I have to work with to make things easier for people to help me. But my main struggle comes from finding the recommendable balance between plains and forests. I mean I understand that eventually I want to upgrade the deck, but with my circumstances, I just wanted to have fun with it for now and play it, instead of waiting a couple of months to buy the duals then play.

[Oiolosse]

Zappa - have you seen the new spoiled Enchantress?

Kor Spiritdancer 1W

Creature - Kor Wizard

Kor Spiritdancer gets +2+2 for each Aura attached to it.
Whenever you cast an Aura spell, you may draw a card.

I have been working on an aggro list with this, rancor, flickering ward, auratog and some others. It is a different approach and seems to have potential as long as we can figure a way to limit the 2 for 1's. Spiritual Asylum comes to mind, but I am sure that there are others.

[Zappa]

That revolves around an entirely different shell and I cannot use him on a traditional enchantress build. The fact that he's not an enchantment affects the consistency of chaining into more enchantments. I'm really just trying to build a traditional enchantress but I am lacking the duals. So just trying to see if anyone with experience with the deck, could recommend a nice balance between forest and plains that I can use and pick up for now, and upgrade later (anyone have any advise? Posted at #1897).

But yeah, I'd rather stick with the traditional enchantress build as it has so many powerful enchantments I want to use.

Your thought about the new card is pretty cool though, flickering ward to generate card advantage, and could also go with mesa enchantress, should you decide to lean more towards white. Specially since you get to use some aura cards that allows you to make thier creatures unable to attack as well like cage of hands or gossamer chains.

[wcm8]

//Land Selections
4 Windswept Heath
2 Serra's Sanctuary
8 Forests
3 Plains
2 Horizon Canopy
1 Stomping Grounds (Ravnica 'taiga'.. honestly by the time you are fetching it, 2 life isn't probably going to matter. not too expensive

//Creatures Selection
4 Argothian Enchantress


//Enchantment Selections
4 Enchantress's Prescence
3 Solitary Confinement
4 Elephant Grass
1 Ghostly Prison (1 can function as a semi-replacement for Moat.. Moat isn't always even necessary)
1 Karmic Justice (probably in the sideboard)
2 City of Solitude
2 Ground Seal
4 Sterling Grove
2-3 Oblivion Ring (cheap to get)
0-1 Lignify (ditto)

//Other things
3 Replenish
2 Sigil of the Empty Throne
1 Words of War (not expensive)
4 Utopia Sprawl (cheap, and needed to play Words of War the majority of the time)
4 Wild Growth (cheap)


That's what I have at the moment for my collection. But I am currently reading through the pages of this thread, and I am getting a bit discouraged as it seems like I'll have difficulty trying to support my deck with such a poor budget mana base, since I am lacking such expensive cards, which are the duals.


Duals really aren't as essential to this deck as many, in fact most 'optimized' lists only run 3. The lack of duals gives the deck amazing resilience against Wasteland.

You're pretty much there with the majority of the cards, and some of the more expensive options (Exploration, Chrome Mox, even Moat to an extent) aren't entirely necessarry for the deck to do well. You can also use budget replacements in the meantime that work almost as well (Lotus Petal for Mox, Gaea's Touch for Exploration, etc.)

[Zappa]

Thanks for the advise, I'll give that mana base as my starting shell a try. thats the most difficulty I am having with the deck since I was lacking the duals. I'll sleeve up the deck and use that land base as my starting shell, and change things based on player comfort and results later on.

[anonymos]

I have recently taken an interest on this deck, and i'm currently hunting the cards for it. I was wondering if I may be able to get some advise for a starting shell for my deck. I have most of the cards but sadly I cannot afford the dual lands and moat. So for now, I was wondering if anyone with experience to the deck, can give me a nice basic shell for my deck, in which my budgeted mana base can support. Here are the cards which I have in my collection at the moment.

//Land Selections
4 Windswept Heath
2 Serra's Sanctuary
X Forests
X Plains
4 Horizon Canopy

//Creatures Selection
4 Argothian Enchantress - yes
4 Yavimaya Enchantress - doesn't draw stuffs so no
4 Verduran Enchantress - no shroud so no

//Enchantment Selections
4 Enchantress's Prescence - YES!!!
4 Seal of Primordium - 1-2
4 Seal of Cleansing - use seal of primordium instead because green is your dominant color - 1-2 between main and board
1 Holistic Wisdom - haven't tried it
4 Solitary Confinement - 2-3 main and maybe board depending on preference
4 Elephant Grass - YES!
4 Ghostly Prison - maybe
4 Karmic Justice - 1-2 between main and board
4 City of Solitude - maybe
4 Wheel of Sun and Moon - some for board
4 Ground Seal - some for board maybe
1 Words of Wisdom - no
4 Rule of Law - no
4 Sterling Grove - yes

//Other things
3 Replenish - yes (2-3 betwen main and board)
2 Hoofprints of the Stag - No
2 Sigil of the Empty Throne - yes
2 Luminarch Ascension - no
1 Words of Wilding - yes until you get taiga/plateau to support words of war


You have a decent start. I wouldn't run the Horizon Canopy's. The loss of life will hurt you way more than it's worth in the long run. They've already said a lot of what I want to say about the land base. I run 4 duals instead of 3, but for the most part, I only play them when I draw them. Your goal is to pump out basic lands early and often unlike most decks. With my list (3-5 pages back) I shoot for 12 green lands and 9 white lands. It seems to be about the right mix for the way I have the main deck set up for me. That isn't counting fetches. Duals help me get there, but they ARE NOT necessary to get it done. If you are working toward the expensive stuff for this deck, I'd actually suggest thinking about how long you intend to play it. If you think you're more likely to go into other decks with G/W I'd get duals first for expensive cards. If you want to play control more, I'd spring for Moat first. It depends on play style and such.

[Zappa]

I said earlier I was going to give the deck a whirl, I just came back from a 20+ people tournament at college of dupage. It's my first time playing the deck so I made a few errors here and there, but at least I learned from my mistakes. While peformance may not be good, considering it was my first time running it, I was pretty satisfied with the result.

Here's a small report for College of Dupage's Monday Night Legacy:


1st Match up: Mike piloting ANT
Round 1 - I got clobbered by Tendrils of Agony on turn 2. There wasn't much I could do about this one.
(Sideboard: +4 Rule of Law, +1 Words of Worship, -4 Ghostly Prison, -1 Holistic Wisdom)
Round 2 - I chose to go 1st dropping a turn 2, Rule of Law followed by a turn 3 Sterling grove. Notes says he tutored for Reverent Silence, blowing up my enchantments, but responded by using grove to fetch for another rule of law. I dropped Words of Worship some time later, he tied to go off as it was now or never for him since I keep gaining too much life. He scooped when he can't generate enough storm to drop my life points.
Round 3 - He dropped a fetchland on his turn, but nothing to play. He spent the next couple turns spinning top, but Words of Worship landed and I start getting more life. He tutored for Reverent silence again and tried to go off on that turn, but was not able to generate enough storm again.(Current standing 1-0)


2nd Match up: Wayne piloting Armageddon Staxx
Round 1 - This round was a blow out, y notes said that these were used: 2X armageddon, Cotv at 1, and Cotv at 2, and Trinisphere.
(Sideboard: +4 Karmic Justice, -4 Ghostly Prison)
Round 2 - Mulled agressively dropping a turn 2 Karmic Justice, turn 3 Prescence, he played a turn 2 trinisphere and but I only needed the utopia sprawl on turn 1 anyways. This match dragged on for a bit, but I had him on a semi lock with Holistic Wisdom and Seal of Primordium. Eventually I beat down with tokens generated from Sigils.
Round 3 - This was a very very long match up, he was unable to play armageddon due to Karmic Justice, and I have Solitary confinement lock going on, but I was down to 2 hit points by the time I dropped this. he was building up an armor of tokens generated via Elspeth, but he's unable to attack while I can attack him with the singleton angel token generated by sigil, which was oblivion ringed the next turn when it was dropped. I was trying to race with the angel, but made a mistake of dropping prison instead of Sterling Grove, which he top decked an Aura of Silence, to blast my confinement, and attacked for the win. I lost this match due to a grave error on my part, I wasn't quite sure why I did not drop the grave at all *sigh* I handed that one. :'( (current standing 1-1)


3rd Match up: David piloting 4 color Counter Top
Round 1 - I scooped when I was facing a counter Top engine and a Trygon Predator.
(Sideboard: +3 City of Solitude, + 4 Karmic Justice, -4 Elephant Grass, -1 Holistic Wisdom, -1 Seal of Cleansing, -1 Wild Growth)
Round 2 - I kept a hand with no acelleration, but saw 2 of my sideboard cards, and enchantress and a good ratio of lands. However, I was bombarded by hand destruction, taking out my precious enchantments, and my enchantress ran into force. I was attacked by a tarmogoyf that I was unable to defend. Was a nice hand, was expecting counter magics from him but instead he played a lot of hand destructions. :( (current standing 1-2)


Final Match up: James piloting RB Goblins
Round 1 - I was unable to keep a confinement alive with 1 enchantress, I had to do this as I took quite a beating from pile diver as well as other goblins, on one of his attacks that literally took half my life in 1 swing. I dropped the confinement with so few cards left in hand and only 1 enchantress in the field, but I was racing with 2 angel tokens from the sigil from the earlier turns. However, he found the mana he needed with siege gang commander to nuke my angel after another, and my clock just disappeared. Then confinement had to leave, and I lost the match afterwards.
(Sideboard: +1 Words of Worship *shrugs*, -1 Seal of Cleansing)
Round 2 - I was only focused on finding confinement, with 2 enchantresses, and a confinement in the field. He just scooped.
Round 3 - I kept a pretty nice hand, 2 enchantresses, basics, and 1 Elephant grass, and a couple of utopia sprawls. I was able to draw into sterling grove which I used to grab a confinement and established a lock. He scooped as he was just watching my Luminarch Ascension building counters. (current standing 2-2)


I deserve a kick for my silly mistake of not dropping Sterling Grove on my Stax match up that costed me the match. I still can't figure out for the life of me why I didn't *sigh*, but it was my first time performing with enchantress, to get a feel for things. Now I also have a better understanding on how my main deck should look like. But as a test run, and my starting shell for the deck, this was what I was running:


12 Forest
4 Windswept Heath
2 Serra's Sanctum
3 Plain

4 Enchantress's Prescence
4 Argothian Enchantress

4 Sterling Grove

2 Replenish
1 Holistic Wisdom

4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Wild Growth

3 Solitary Confinement
4 Ghostly Prison
4 Elephant Grass

1 Sigil of the Empty Throne
1 Luminarch Ascension
1 Hoofprints of the Stag

1 Seal of Primordium
1 seal of Cleansing


//Sideboard
3 Wheel of Sun and Moon
4 Karmic Justice
1 Words of Wisdom
4 Rule of Law
3 City of Solitude


I'll definitely be doing some changes in the main deck, but since it was my very 1st time playing the deck, and I just wanted to get a feel for things. I have a pretty good idea what I'll be running next, and taking out as well. I appreciate those that encouraged me to go with the deck and not to have too much doubts about the lack of duals. Thanks.

[jiazhouhuaqiao]

The decisive element in the mana base is

1) The chance you have W in your opening hand. This affects the reliability of 1st turn Enlightened Tutor

2) The turn it takes you to make WW. This affects your ability to play with Aura of Silence and Runed Halo. If you want to drop these on turn 2 or 3, you need to be really, really able to make W

3) Eventually it affects the number of W spells you can cast each turn

4) Eventually it affects how many times you can activate W abilities such as Sacred Mesa or Peace of Mind. This is where pain lands are... painful

If you don't have the duals, you should go with a full set of Lotus Petals and/ or Chrome Moxes. Chrome Mox implanting a Sterling Grove or whatever (I play with more G/W Enchantments than the typical build- Dueling Grounds and Aura Shards) is obviously pretty hot.

Casting costs CAN BE pretty easy in Enchantress (the difficult reach limit being 1st turn E Tutor, 1st/ 2nd turn Runed Halo, 2nd/ 3rd turn Aura of Silence), BUT because you are trying to cast multiple spells each turn, being able to produce plentiful amounts of both G and W will enhance the deck's performance.

[Zappa]

Yeah, I understood that much. But since I am not running Runed Halo and Aura of Silence, I was not that worried. I also wanted to keep my curve a little lower so that I can chain my enchantments easier. I've been reading through the history of Enchantress and how it's developed throughout the years, and I came to an agreement and understanding of other's point of view. For such a synergistic deck such as this one, I am trying to avoid having a lot of non-enchantments in the deck, as while they may give you a boost early, they become a horrible top deck as well as hurting the consistency of the deck. I understand that I am nw to the archetype, but having mained affinity and dredge, trying to maintain synergy as well as focusing on consistency is one thing that had stucked to me. It's probably why I find enchantress apealing as well.

Enlightened Tutors is a nice card, they're good, but I am not sure if they're the right call for this deck. 8 enchantress effects as well at the 4 sterling groves, really seems like its enough to find what you need. One thing I had regret in my list is not having some cantrip effect from the likes of Ground Seal. But that's an issue i'll be trying to address as I start working on my list. For the moment the only non-enchantment spell I plan on using is just Replenish.

[JrGman2004]

Hi Zappa,

I have no budget on my landbase and I'm using 1 taiga and 1 savannah. I never fetch them because Wasteland hurts so much and you need basic forests for Utopia Sprawl anyway.

This is incorrect. Utopia Sprawl says Enchant Forest, not Enchant Basic Forest. You can enchant a Savannah or a Taiga with Utopia Sprawl because they are Forests.


Some cards in your list (Yavimaya Enchantress, Verduran Enchantress) do not fit that deck. But maaaybe you can build a different deck, using the Enchantress shell for an aggro apporach, including Yavimaya Enchantress and Auratog abusing Rancors.

An aggro Enchantress deck is certainly doable (and I've even seen a Mono Green Enchantress Storm deck that was interesting), but this is also not the thread for that deck. It has a completely different objective and runs very differently from Solitary Enchantress.


Zappa: Save your pennies where you can and save up for those big cards. You can always put Shock lands in as placeholders for the duals. The most important thing I think you should do, is save up and try and get yourself a beat to hell Moat. It really is one of those must have cards. After that, you can start saving for the Savannah's and Taigas. Beyond that, since you already have the Argothian's and most of the rest of the deck, you don't really need to invest much except for a few of the silver bullet cards. I highly recommend a playset of Runed Halos. 2 for the Mainboard and 2 for the sideboard. Otherwise, you have most of what you need.

So, make a shopping list and prioritize it and start saving. Pick up the little stuff here and there that will make your deck run better now, and as soon as you can get the big stuff (like Moat). And hey, we're starting to get back into grass mowing time. If you can, get out there and start pounding the pavement. Go mow some lawns if you don't already have a job. Or even if you do, go do it to get you there sooner.

Here's the shopping list I'd recommend for you.

Big Ticket Prioritys:
1x Moat
2x Savannah
1-2x Taiga

Little Items:
1x Words of War (Get this ASAP)
4x Runed Halo (2 main, 2 side)
2x Temple Garden
2x Stomping Ground
3x Mindbreak Trap (sideboard)
1x Circle of Protection: Red (sideboard)
2x Sacred Ground (sideboard, good against Pox and Stax)
1x Aura of Silence (sideboard)

With what you currently have, this is the list I would run...

4x Argothian Enchantress
4x Enchantress's Presence
4x Sterling Grove
4x Solitary Confinement (Normally I run 3, but without the Moat, I'd add the 4th)
4x Elephant Grass
3x Wild Growth
4x Utopia Sprawl
3x Replenish
2x Sigil of the Empty Throne
1x Luminarch Ascension (replace this with Words of War)
1x Karmic Justice
2x City of Solitude
2x Oblivion Ring
2x Ground Seal
4x Windswept Heath
2x Serra's Sanctum
2x Horizon Canopy (until you get the Temple Gardens)
8x Forest
4x Plains

Sideboard
3x Wheel of Sun and Moon
1x Words of Wisdom (good against quicker aggro decks and burn)
2x Seal of Primordium
2x Oblivion Ring
2x Journey to Nowhere
5x ???

Don't really know what else you have to complete the sideboard, and the list would need tweaking again when you get some of those other cards, like the Halos. You should have a good match up against much of the deck, except for really the last 4 decks you listed. If you see a lot of those decks, then find something else to play. But if you see a lot more of the aggro decks, then I say certainly keep going with this. Also, I can stress how important practice is with this deck. It takes experience to determine if you have a keepable hand. And what was a keepable hand in G1, can turn into a horrible hand in G2 and G3, depending on your match up. Once you have it together, try and goldfish as much as you can. It's not as good as practicing against real opponents, but it can help you see how to combo out and win, especially once you start playing with Words of War. It took me a while to start being able to quickly count out and see if I could kill my opponent in a turn with Words of War.

[wcm8]

I don't think Horizon Canopy really needs to be cut. It's great mid-to-late game when you don't really need mana as much as you need threats. You don't typically want to be seeing it in your opening hand, but even then it can help throw out a T2 Halo.

RE: Halo, if this card lands and stays put, it almost functions like a bit of a mixture of Meddling Mage/Maelstrom Pulse, as it can potentially 1-for-4 a card in the opponent's deck. It's use is not just limited to combo matchups; any deck with a low number of threats can really have problems with it.

[JrGman2004]

I don't think Horizon Canopy really needs to be cut. It's great mid-to-late game when you don't really need mana as much as you need threats. You don't typically want to be seeing it in your opening hand, but even then it can help throw out a T2 Halo.

RE: Halo, if this card lands and stays put, it almost functions like a bit of a mixture of Meddling Mage/Maelstrom Pulse, as it can potentially 1-for-4 a card in the opponent's deck. It's use is not just limited to combo matchups; any deck with a low number of threats can really have problems with it.

It has saved my butt numerous times against aggro. It's great to call against Trygon Predator or Progenitus... Mindslaver in the Lands match up. If your opponent lands a team of Goyfs or any other creature, you can call it. It really is one of those cards that you can keep it in your hand and then drop it when you need it. And of course against ANT, it's great to call against Tendrils of Agony. And make sure you call Agony not Corruption!

[Zappa]

Thanks for the little list of cards you recommend me to buy. But I think I'll hold off on the little ones like temple gardens and stomping grounds, and save the money I would have had spent on those and aim for the big ones. I don't really want to add that many non-basics because there's just so many wastelands being used on where I am playing.

Regarding Runed halo against ANT, I don't really like the card against it. Any decent pilot will just fetch for something t get rid of it before comboing off, like how my opponent searched for reverent silence. Versus any decks taking the aggro route plan however, I feel that between 4 sterling groves, 3-4 solitary confinement, 4 elephant grass, and 4 ghostly prisons, this should be enough. I do like words of war, however, it's not something I can use until I can have a stable mana base to support it.

One match up I would like to inquire about is the stax match up. Some people said it's a really bad match up for enchantress, some people think it's the other way around. But my experience from yesterday seems like it was in my favor post board (Karmic Justices), my loss just came from misplay of not laying out sterling grove when I had achieved a confinement lock.

[caiomarcos]

Thanks for the little list of cards you recommend me to buy. But I think I'll hold off on the little ones like temple gardens and stomping grounds, and save the money I would have had spent on those and aim for the big ones. I don't really want to add that many non-basics because there's just so many wastelands being used on where I am playing.

Regarding Runed halo against ANT, I don't really like the card against it. Any decent pilot will just fetch for something t get rid of it before comboing off, like how my opponent searched for reverent silence. Versus any decks taking the aggro route plan however, I feel that between 4 sterling groves, 3-4 solitary confinement, 4 elephant grass, and 4 ghostly prisons, this should be enough. I do like words of war, however, it's not something I can use until I can have a stable mana base to support it.

One match up I would like to inquire about is the stax match up. Some people said it's a really bad match up for enchantress, some people think it's the other way around. But my experience from yesterday seems like it was in my favor post board (Karmic Justices), my loss just came from misplay of not laying out sterling grove when I had achieved a confinement lock.

Trinisphere could be troublesome but then what? Even with Trini in play, they give us too much time to fetch for a Seal of Cleansing or something like that, get rid of whatever is holding us down and then win.

There also Armageddon, but I believe everyone has a couple of Karmic Justice between maindeck and sideboard.

Summing it up, White Stax is not a hard match up.

[anonymos]

Stax is not a bad matchup for us. Their strategy is based on them theoretically having more permanents than their opponents and being able to destroy them with 3sphere. While the sphere does hurt if our draws are nonbasic heavy and they recur wastelands, it is nowhere near as bad as it could be. The only thing that they really play that messes with us hard is Armageddon. The first one isn't even that bad. The second one tends to be a back breaker though. The only reason I drew with it at Indy was because the guy took forever to shuffle.

[Zappa]

I also try to save a land or 2 in hand when I was playing against stax, don't know if that was the right call or not, but when you have more than enough mana source to cast sigil it seemed safe to do so. So I can recover fast after a lucky top decked armageddon.

There's like so many pages to read through to histry of this deck that I am currently only on page 48 still, but would like to ask anyways, if there is an agreed upon number of Ghostly Prison, for either a deck with moat or a deck without moat. On a deck without moat, is a 4/4/4 split between confinement, prison, and grass over kill? or does that sound just about right?

Also which one seems like a better sideboard versus control decks packing countermagic? Choke or City of Solitude? I was discussing this with a several people at the monday night legacy I go to, and while there is somewhat of a split between the two, a slight majority actually leans in favor of choke.

[wcm8]

agreed upon number of Ghostly Prison, for either a deck with moat or a deck without moat. On a deck without moat, is a 4/4/4 split between confinement, prison, and grass over kill? or does that sound just about right?

Also which one seems like a better sideboard versus control decks packing countermagic? Choke or City of Solitude? I was discussing this with a several people at the monday night legacy I go to, and while there is somewhat of a split between the two, a slight majority actually leans in favor of choke.

Generally accepted: 4 Grass, 1 Moat, 0 Prison. Sometimes people will do a 3 Grass/1 Prison split, but I think grass is better. You can use a prison as placeholder for Moat, but Moat is just really that damn good. If it's protected by a Grove, it's practically an auto-win vs. most aggro decks. (You still gotta be careful with Zoo since they have burn).

Ghostly Prison isn't highly favored because there a better 3cc spells you'd probably want to be casting.

BTW, 3 solitary confinement should be enough. 2 works for some people, but I don't like to always have to be tutoring for it. 4 Seems excessive -- you are running 2 replenish after all.

City of Solitude is a great card maindeck, Choke would only be better if you are sure there's going to be tons of blue in your metagame. City shuts down counterspells, end of turn tutoring, and other miscellaneous shenanigans. Games 2 and 3 you'll want to bring in Choke. FWIW I run 1 City main and 2 Choke in the SB.

[SpatulaOfTheAges]

There's like so many pages to read through to histry of this deck that I am currently only on page 48 still, but would like to ask anyways, if there is an agreed upon number of Ghostly Prison, for either a deck with moat or a deck without moat. On a deck without moat, is a 4/4/4 split between confinement, prison, and grass over kill? or does that sound just about right?

I was always disappointed by Ghostly Prison. I wouldn't recommend any.


Also which one seems like a better sideboard versus control decks packing countermagic? Choke or City of Solitude? I was discussing this with a several people at the monday night legacy I go to, and while there is somewhat of a split between the two, a slight majority actually leans in favor of choke.

Choke is far more powerful against most blue decks. Certainly against the prevalent ones. And it works well with Elephant Grass.

[JrGman2004]

Thanks for the little list of cards you recommend me to buy. But I think I'll hold off on the little ones like temple gardens and stomping grounds, and save the money I would have had spent on those and aim for the big ones. I don't really want to add that many non-basics because there's just so many wastelands being used on where I am playing.

Regarding Runed halo against ANT, I don't really like the card against it. Any decent pilot will just fetch for something t get rid of it before comboing off, like how my opponent searched for reverent silence. Versus any decks taking the aggro route plan however, I feel that between 4 sterling groves, 3-4 solitary confinement, 4 elephant grass, and 4 ghostly prisons, this should be enough. I do like words of war, however, it's not something I can use until I can have a stable mana base to support it.

One match up I would like to inquire about is the stax match up. Some people said it's a really bad match up for enchantress, some people think it's the other way around. But my experience from yesterday seems like it was in my favor post board (Karmic Justices), my loss just came from misplay of not laying out sterling grove when I had achieved a confinement lock.

Sure, ANT has to go searching for that answer. But that also can give you some breathing room to drop another or to drop a Sterling Grove to protect the Halo. Every answer has an answer to it. But if that's your stance on everything and using it as a reason not to play something, why are you playing any cards since every card in your deck has an answer to it? What are your other options against ANT? Solitary lock down? Unless you are running the Mox/ESG shennanigans, good luck getting that down with yourself set up with a draw effect before they can combo off on you. And what's to stop them from tutoring for that same answer for Solitary that works against Runed Halo? Runed Halo is a great card. It's a silver bullet, and it's a silver bullet for whatever you need it to be when you have it in your hand. I have yet to have a match where I wanted to side out Runed Halo.

I run 2 Sacred Grounds in my sideboard. It's good against Stax, Pox, and other black decks that run Sinkhole, as well as having 1 Karmic Justice in the main. Sacred Grounds just says "Go ahead and Geddon!"

I normally wouldn't run Ghostly Prison (but I did put one in my board last nite for my local event since I saw a couple more aggro decks than usual before the tourney). Grass is usually better, and Moat is just dirty.

As regarding Wasteland. Don't worry about Wasteland too much. Like someone else said, I only fetch for them when I absolutely need them, and when I'm in a match up against a deck that I know runs Wastelands (or if it's a G1 and I'm on the play) then I fetch for basics.

[Zappa]

I have been working on an aggro list with this, rancor, flickering ward, auratog and some others. It is a different approach and seems to have potential as long as we can figure a way to limit the 2 for 1's. Spiritual Asylum comes to mind, but I am sure that there are others.

Woot! I've caught up! Lol. I read every page from page 1 to now, and while I dismissed the idea on this on one of my earlier posts, it still merits some testing. Since you're considering the Asylum, perhaps you may also want to consider other things like Dense Foliage and/or Greater Auramancy, but unfortunately that'll leave you with being strict with your aura cards. Since you'll be going creature route perhaps going with Worship could be viable. But yeah, anyways, I apologize for just dismissing what you said just like that earlier without much reason. However this entire thread is for the traditional Enchantress build running enchantment heavy with Solitary Confinement as the lock. So if you wanna make a new thread for that idea, i'll also gladly hop in there and give my contributions.


Sure, ANT has to go searching for that answer. But that also can give you some breathing room to drop another or to drop a Sterling Grove to protect the Halo. Every answer has an answer to it. But if that's your stance on everything and using it as a reason not to play something, why are you playing any cards since every card in your deck has an answer to it? What are your other options against ANT? Solitary lock down? Unless you are running the Mox/ESG shennanigans, good luck getting that down with yourself set up with a draw effect before they can combo off on you. And what's to stop them from tutoring for that same answer for Solitary that works against Runed Halo? Runed Halo is a great card. It's a silver bullet, and it's a silver bullet for whatever you need it to be when you have it in your hand. I have yet to have a match where I wanted to side out Runed Halo.

May just be my imagination, but I kinda feel slight hostility reading the post, I apologize if i somehow provoke you in any manner. However, what I was trying to get at with Runed Halo, is that while they are indeed slowed down by a couple turns trying to find for an answer, the moment they play Reverent Silence, they are going to go off in that turn, assuming they have had the time to sculpt their hand during those turns as well. I only brought up Words of Worship simply because they cannot afford to let you build up too much life, and the pressure it presents them as they watch your life total keep going up, can also cause them them try to go off earlier than what they expected. Trying to go gamble for one big storm during that turn. Where as wether as your board gets wiped at this point is no longer an issue. Words of Worship, can also be a ice card to be brought in against the likes of burn. I am not saying to run a play set but definitely worth considering as a 1 off at the very least.

I definitely understand the power of Runed Halo though, from having some experience playing with Mono white Control. Specially since most decks only packs a small amount of win condition, naming one of their win cons usually leads to half of their win con getting shut off. It can also be a godsend against other decks as well, I will try to order some as well, or rather purchase them again, as I had sold my play set in the past. :cry: I was just worried about the WW requirement trying to drop it off early.


I run 2 Sacred Grounds in my sideboard. It's good against Stax, Pox, and other black decks that run Sinkhole, as well as having 1 Karmic Justice in the main. Sacred Grounds just says "Go ahead and Geddon!"

I have not tried sacred ground at all, but visualization is enough. So I wanted to take this opportunity to ask about them. Is there every any time when you had wished those sacred grounds should have been extra copies of Karmic Justices instead? I asked because, land destruction aside, Justice works well enough versus board sweepers. I understand that you wouldn't be brining Sacred Grounds when non-land board sweepers are involved, but I feel that the sideboard space could have been better spent, though, I suppose 1-off silver bullet style does no harm.


@everyone
Now that the new set has been fully spoiled, anyone feel that some cards may work its way to enchantress? Or there isn't anything worth considering? except maybe for a different enchantress build taking the aggro role. :eyebrow:


EDIT:
One of the people I play with uses the card [card]Tranquil Grove[/cards], while it is only in 1 deck, I don't wanna be completely hosed by that card. Also yeah, I have different sideboards depending which place/area I am going to :lol:. But one of the guys I play with on certain days plays with that card, so I am wondering if there's any good alternatives to stopping that card. His deck is an elf deck, that just ramps up lots of mana to generate lots of tokens and go for 1 alpha strike. So as I see it, the way the game would probably go is that I would probably get him on a confinement lock, but he will just be building up massive tokens with his mass mana production. When he top decks that card, he'll finish me off in 1 alpha strike. Any solution or temporary answer to that card? Thanks.

[jiazhouhuaqiao]

When you've achieved Enchantress mode, FREE MANA (Lotus Petal) is *not* a bad topdeck. LAND is a bad topdeck because you can't productively use it iimmediately. But you will always be able to spend mana to put out more enchantments.

If you've never played Shandalar before, I recommend you do so. You can't understand why Moxes and Black Lotuses are broken unless you've played them with Timetwisters and Hurkyl's Recalls. When your deck draws out your deck and you are no longer looking at cards costing you a draw (because you have essentially a G1 creature that reads: Draw 10 cards and a G2 enchantment that reads: Draw 10 cards), there is always room in your deck for free mana.

You should NEVER run a full set of Sterling Grove if your deck doesn't have some amount of Enlightened Tutors. The deck needs some tutoring to give it consistency and speed. Sterling Grove is a tutor for GW1. Enlightened Tutor accomplishes the same effect for just W. G1 on turn 1 and turn 2 is HUGE.

I think Words of Worship is good, I like some sort of life gain effect: it makes a big difference for some match ups. I would compare Words of Worship with Peace of Mind however. I think the 2 cards are evenly matched. Words of Worship gives you more life per card and is a colorless activation. So it is more powerful than Peace of Mind. However, with Peace of Mind, you are actually drawing cards and moving through your deck. That is irreplacable. So I would rather take less life and more restrictive mana with Peace of Mind in order to get the actual draws. Words of Worship may seem like a clearly better card, but actually I think the 2 are about equal. Peace of Mind is also 1 mana less so if life gain isn't going to be an important issue in the match you can drop it cheaper for the draw than Words of Worship. You should be running Peace of Mind instead unless you are making W with painlands.

My current Enchantress thoughts:

1) Serra Sanctum and/ or if you generate a lot of creature tokens, Gaea's Cradle. Why not play a full set? It gives you a burst of mana as you draw it, and if you can get rid of it coveniently or bounce it, here comes the mana again. As long as you can get rid of your copy in play, drawing extras is awesome. You could even run Leylines to get acceleration on turn 1.

2) Cream of the Crop. It's G1. When you have Sigil out, your enchantments come with a free Intuition.

3) Sylvan Echoes. It's G. Any green enchantment for G is worth taking a look at. What cards trigger clash? Woodland Guidance: It untaps all your Forests: Not just a potentially free card, it could actually MAKE mana. Recross the Paths: It puts your next land (any land, not just basic) into play, UNTAPPED. It works beautifully with clash.

So anyway I'm pretty much working on the mana issue. Also the philosophical issue. I mean, why play Enchantress instead of Elfball? Glimpse of Nature costs G. It doesn't stick around- not an issue if you are going to win the turn you cast it. Heritage Druid solves Elfball's mana problems. If the goal is a draw engine to draw out the deck, why play a deck based on Enchantments off cards that cost G1 and G2, when you can play a deck based on creatures off a card that costs G, generates infinite mana AND has several FREE tutors available? Or why not play something off of Vedalken Archmage and artifacts which can also fix the mana issue?

Why play a slow deck when there is a faster deck which pretty much does the same thing?

[jiazhouhuaqiao]

Rise of the Eldrazi doesn't seem to have anything to HELP Enchantress, but our matchup against reanimator is about to go from bad to terrible. Currently Enchantress plays absolutely no protection against the Annihilator mechanic (besides um Lignify). Annihilator gets around Sterling Grove AND Karmic Justice. The same is true for All is Dust: artifact decks are going to wrath our board once they get to 7 mana.

Now, the Legendary Eldrazi can't be reanimated (and don't get their extra bonus when they are reanimated) but we will have to deal with the lesser Elrdazi like Pathrazer of Ulamog and It That Betrays in the reanimator decks, as well as Ulamog's Crusher or Artisan of Kozilek in mana ramping decks.

Our best potential play against Eldrazi could be Humility.

We COULD PLAY with the Eldrazi as win conditions. After all, an Enchantress deck *does* build a tremendous mana base slowly. We can play with Gaea's Touch. We have Serra's Sanctum and/ or Gaea's Cradle. So we can eventually even completely hard cast the legendary Eldrazi etc... Kozilek's card draw doesn't do anything for us, but Ulamog (indestructable, vindicate) and Emrakul (protection from colors, timewalk) are both possible win conditions. Ulamog is 11 mana: Activating Words of War to do 20 damage takes 10 mana, plus 3 for the spell itself. We could play Karakas to bounce say, Emrakul, recast for infinite turns.

So, Enchantress as a slow stall/ defense/ lock shell, and Eldrazi as the win conditions. Ok I've started a thread on that in the developing decks forum.

[JrGman2004]

My current Enchantress thoughts:

1) Serra Sanctum and/ or if you generate a lot of creature tokens, Gaea's Cradle. Why not play a full set? It gives you a burst of mana as you draw it, and if you can get rid of it coveniently or bounce it, here comes the mana again. As long as you can get rid of your copy in play, drawing extras is awesome. You could even run Leylines to get acceleration on turn 1.

There really is no reliable way to bounce or get rid of your Serra's Sanctum, except by dropping another Sanctum to Legend rule it out. I only run 2, and the only time I want to see both in my hand, is if my opponent is playing Wastelands.



2) Cream of the Crop. It's G1. When you have Sigil out, your enchantments come with a free Intuition.

By the time you have Sigil out, you should be winning. Cream of the Crop is not going to be the most helpful card. Plus, you could also be hitting 2 Enchantments that you need, and Cropping first, you end up putting one of them on the bottom, and then still have to rely on some luck to hit what you need in the next 3 cards. Personally, I don't like it. It's a dead card most of the game.



3) Sylvan Echoes. It's G. Any green enchantment for G is worth taking a look at. What cards trigger clash? Woodland Guidance: It untaps all your Forests: Not just a potentially free card, it could actually MAKE mana. Recross the Paths: It puts your next land (any land, not just basic) into play, UNTAPPED. It works beautifully with clash.

I don't even see any point to this card. There are other enchantments for G that I would rather put in, that would actively do something for me, like Exploration, or Mirri's Guile. And then, if you put in Woodland Guidance for you to actually do something with the Clash... what good is it? Return a single card from your graveyard to hand, and MAYBE untap all your forests and draw a card. Or, I can just play Replenish and return all those Enchantments in my yard to play. This is not a very good choice.



So anyway I'm pretty much working on the mana issue. Also the philosophical issue. I mean, why play Enchantress instead of Elfball? Glimpse of Nature costs G. It doesn't stick around- not an issue if you are going to win the turn you cast it. Heritage Druid solves Elfball's mana problems. If the goal is a draw engine to draw out the deck, why play a deck based on Enchantments off cards that cost G1 and G2, when you can play a deck based on creatures off a card that costs G, generates infinite mana AND has several FREE tutors available? Or why not play something off of Vedalken Archmage and artifacts which can also fix the mana issue?

Why play a slow deck when there is a faster deck which pretty much does the same thing?

If you want to play aggro, then go play your Elfball deck. Enchantress isn't just about being a "draw engine to draw out you deck" and then killing like Elfball is. Enchantress is about controlling the early game and having silver bullets available and fetchable to help in different match ups, locking your opponent out, and then smashing his face in once you're set up. So please don't tell me that Elfball is a faster deck that does the same thing. It really doesn't, unless you refer only to drawing a lot of cards. Elfball can be shut down by a timely Bolt, Helix, Swords, or Counter. It's a lot harder to do that against Enchantress seeing as how those cards that can stop Elfball are more prevalent in the current meta, than the things that can shut down Enchantress. Enchantress has a good match up against pretty much all the aggro decks, and even has a decent match up against some of the control decks. The only poor match up tends to be combo, but we do have ways of staving them off for a little bit and pulling out a win.

I don't mean to sound hostile here, but I've had a decent amount of experience with this deck, and have seen some awful ideas thrown about for the deck from people that have barely played it, or never played it, and people that put down a card without ever trying it or doing any meaningful testing with it when others have done a lot of testing with it and it's used in most lists. The lists that are out there are generally pretty tight and there's only a few slots that are open for tinkering around with and some of the match ups are already tight enough that you don't want to put dead and wasteful cards in by taking out optimal cards. The sideboard tends to be where you see a lot more of the tinkering and individuality.

With that out of the way... here's what I'm currently looking at for a sideboard (with 1 City of Solitude, 2 Runed Halo, 1 Karmic Justice, and 1 Ground Seal in the main in silver bullet slots)

3x Mindbreak Trap
2x Wheel of Sun and Moon
1x Sacred Ground
2x Vexing Susher
1x CoP Red
1x Words of Worship
1x Blood Moon
2x Runed Halo
1x Aura of Silence
1x Choke/Wheel/Sacred Ground... Undecided on this last spot...

[jiazhouhuaqiao]

If you want to play aggro, then go play your Elfball deck. Enchantress isn't just about being a "draw engine to draw out you deck" and then killing like Elfball is. Enchantress is about controlling the early game and having silver bullets available and fetchable to help in different match ups, locking your opponent out, and then smashing his face in once you're set up. So please don't tell me that Elfball is a faster deck that does the same thing. It really doesn't, unless you refer only to drawing a lot of cards.

I am an Enchantress player... I mostly follow this thread only, and I run and appreciate the deck in the same way that you describe it, as a deck with silver bullets and tutors. However, what I get from this thread is that there are a lot more Enchantress players running it as a card draw engine basically focused on the engine itself, because they cut out the silver bullets AND they cut out the Tutors. I mean, I think your best play on T1 with 1 mana iin Enchantress is Enlightened Tutor, so it's completely different from the players who believe the the best play is Wild Growth/ Utopia Sprawl. Many players on this thread think Words of War and Solitary Confinement, and even MOAT! are essential elements to the deck and they see the "Enchantress engine" as ways to "feed" WoW or Confinement.

But the more I look at the 2 decks and directly compare Glimpse of Nature with Argothian Enchantress/ Enchantress' Presence, the harder it is to say that, bottom line both decks are trying to do the same thing. But Elfball is trying to do it on turn 2 and Enchantress Confinement is trying to do it on turn 10.

[wcm8]

3x Mindbreak Trap
2x Wheel of Sun and Moon
1x Sacred Ground
2x Vexing Susher
1x CoP Red
1x Words of Worship
1x Blood Moon
2x Runed Halo
1x Aura of Silence
1x Choke/Wheel/Sacred Ground... Undecided on this last spot...

Wheel of Sun and Moon is only good proactively. I would use these slots for something like Faerie Macabre or Tormod's Crypt, because you need a way to delay Iona or something else coming back.

2 Choke is ideal. Seriously, Merefolk or Countertop/etc can be a problem, and you want multiple 'must counter' cards.

Words of Worship is.. meh. What are you trying to win with this, aggro?

Vexing Shusher is alright I guess, although I'd play City of Solitude in those slots.

Also re: eldrazi.. It's certainly interesting, but the thing about Words of War is that its mana can be spread out over multiple turns. Actually, with Serra's sanctum, getting 15 mana really isn't too tough, but man, that would be a terrible top deck unless you were on your way towards winning.

[JrGman2004]

Wheel of Sun and Moon is only good proactively. I would use these slots for something like Faerie Macabre or Tormod's Crypt, because you need a way to delay Iona or something else coming back.

2 Choke is ideal. Seriously, Merefolk or Countertop/etc can be a problem, and you want multiple 'must counter' cards.

Words of Worship is.. meh. What are you trying to win with this, aggro?

Vexing Shusher is alright I guess, although I'd play City of Solitude in those slots.

Also re: eldrazi.. It's certainly interesting, but the thing about Words of War is that its mana can be spread out over multiple turns. Actually, with Serra's sanctum, getting 15 mana really isn't too tough, but man, that would be a terrible top deck unless you were on your way towards winning.

I'm back and forth on it... I want to test it in the ANT match up as Zappa has done... I'm iffy on it... but it can also work against Burn, and I'd consider bringing it in against Naya Zoo to give me some breathing room against the burn.

Also, Wheel of Sun and Moon can work well against Dredge and Loam decks. Those will be staying in the board. I've been back and forth on several changes and am finding it hard to decide on some of those changes.

[Jeff Kruchkow]

A friend of mine brought an idea that I think has merit to it to my attention.

What about a one of Emrakul in the deck/sb?

He thought of it more as a way to win against the mirror (which exists in my meta) but it could also be a way to just win the game.

Its faster than both Sigil and Words and can't be held off as well as the other 2. Also, in a pinch it stops any danger of decking out.

Anyway, is this a legit thought or just danger of cool things?

[wcm8]

A friend of mine brought an idea that I think has merit to it to my attention.

What about a one of Emrakul in the deck/sb?

He thought of it more as a way to win against the mirror (which exists in my meta) but it could also be a way to just win the game.

Its faster than both Sigil and Words and can't be held off as well as the other 2. Also, in a pinch it stops any danger of decking out.

Anyway, is this a legit thought or just danger of cool things?

My belief is danger of cool things. It is probably easier to hardcast an Eldrazi with an artifact shell (metal worker, voltaic key, urzatron, etc) or Elves (Priestess of Titania + lots of others).

It's a nice win condition, but if you have 15 mana available, you should probably be winning regardless of the actual win-con. It just becomes a useless top deck, which also can't be spread over multiple turns like Sigil or War can.

I dunno, I might test it and see how feasible it is in a typical game.

[VsTheWorld]

Emrakul is definitely the danger of cool things. I like my win conditions to at least be marginally useful if you're behind in the game, which Emrakul is most certainly not. The only way you hit 15 mana is with Sanctum + a full board, which means your engine is already going and WoW will likely just win that turn anyway. Another minor point is that discarding Emrakul at any point resets your Replenishes, which could lead to awkward corner cases where your opponent blows Deed and proceeds to Thoughtseize away Emrakul or something stupid like that.

If the mirror is a concern, just play more Aura of Silences than the other guy. Those at least have solid applications against Countertop, Storm, and jank like Affinity and Stax.

[dontbiteitholmes]

Yeah Enchantress is very very unlike Elfball. In fact I can't really think of another deck that is really anything like Enchantress. Since the printing of Krosan Grip it's the only deck that can really achieve a hard lock past game 1.

There are 3 main decktypes in Magic which everyone knows as Aggro, Combo, and Control. At this point in the game though decks can fill 2 of those roles. Examples would be CounterTop as Aggro/Control, Elfball as Combo/Aggro, and Enchantress is Combo/Control. These decks are good not because they blindly go towards one path to victory like a straight aggro deck, but because they have multiple paths to victory. Playing Vs. Elball stopping the combo is only 1/2 the battle because they can drop all the elves from their hand and attack even if Glimpe gets countered. Playing as Enchantress I can win without ever comboing out. I can drop lock pieces to limit the damage you can do to me then drop Sigil and beat you to death with Angel tokens even without a single Enchantress in play. That's not the ideal situation, but trust me, it happens from time to time. Enchantress is by no means an Aggro deck. You could attempt to make it Combo/Aggro but it would never be better than Elfball at that role with the current cards available.

Another option some people take is to build Enchantress as a more combo oriented deck. This is a fine approach in some metas but weakens the control aspect of the deck and usually cuts back on silver bullets. That's really the #1 descion you have to make when you build Enchantress. How much am I going to focus on combo and how much am I going to focus on control. It's a sliding scale and if you find the right balance you have a good Enchantress deck. Really you can make Enchantress as combo centric as you want, but at some point you could reach a critical mass as you remove control pieces and you might as well just play a dedicated combo deck.

[anonymos]

Yeah Enchantress is very very unlike Elfball. In fact I can't really think of another deck that is really anything like Enchantress. Since the printing of Krosan Grip it's the only deck that can really achieve a hard lock past game

1. There are 3 main decktypes in Magic which everyone knows as Aggro, Combo, and Control. At this point in the game though decks can fill 2 of those roles. Examples would be CounterTop as Aggro/Control, Elfball as Combo/Aggro, and Enchantress is Combo/Control. These decks are good not because they blindly go towards one path to victory like a straight aggro deck, but because they have multiple paths to victory.

Playing Vs. Elball stopping the combo is only 1/2 the battle because they can drop all the elves from their hand and attack even if Glimpe gets countered. Playing as Enchantress I can win without ever comboing out. I can drop lock pieces to limit the damage you can do to me then drop Sigil and beat you to death with Angel tokens even without a single Enchantress in play. That's not the ideal situation, but trust me, it happens from time to time. Enchantress is by no means an Aggro deck. You could attempt to make it Combo/Aggro but it would never be better than Elfball at that role with the current cards available.

Another option some people take is to build Enchantress as a more combo oriented deck. This is a fine approach in some metas but weakens the control aspect of the deck and usually cuts back on silver bullets. That's really the #1 descion you have to make when you build Enchantress. How much am I going to focus on combo and how much am I going to focus on control. It's a sliding scale and if you find the right balance you have a good Enchantress deck. Really you can make Enchantress as combo centric as you want, but at some point you could reach a critical mass as you remove control pieces and you might as well just play a dedicated combo deck.


Paragraphs are savage tech in enchantress. Even when they don't really make sense. Just easier to follow than the wall of text.

[Sevryn]

A few topics others may wish to expand on:


The Combo Matchup

This is any deck that consistently wins turn 3 or faster, usually without attacking (Tendrils variants, but also Belcher). Since Enchantress doesn't do anything flashy until turn 3-4, these decks face little pressure and basically just goldfish us. This matchup is so bad that it may not even be worth sideboard slots. Mindbreak Trap is a decent answer to storm decks, though it can easily be Duressed away. If one runs Trap, is it worth the full 4 slots in the board?


Acceleration

Utopia Sprawl is universally used as a 4-of. Wild Growth is great, but some decks opt to run less Growths in favor of faster acceleration, such as Chrome Mox, Spirit Guides, or Lotus Petal. These allow first turn Argothians as well as insurance against Daze. One thing I'd like to state is that Simian Spirit Guide is functionally similar to ESG (you will mulligan any hand without a forest or fetch land), and can help make casting Words of War and Blood Moon easier. Lotus Petal can be used for white mana, which makes double white enchantments (like Runed Halo and Moat) easier to cast.


Interaction

Enchantress typically seeks to eliminate interaction from the game by casting restrictive enchantments. Realizing this, it may be worth pushing the deck towards even more of a prison archetype. Some options include:
-multiple maindeck Blood Moons
-obliterate (kills everything except enchantments and can't be countered)
-winter orb (stacked land auras and sanctum make the drawback not as symmetrical.


Going Blue

G/W/r has been the most stable build of late IMO, but G/U/w is very interesting. Having Force of Will helps against all of our problematic matchups, and we have the inherent card advantage to make up for its drawback. Words of Wind is solid, and removes to Force. Propaganda is strong as well, and can replace an Elephant Grass without much problem. Finally, Enchantress is a deck that takes a lot of advantage from seeing more cards of its deck, so spells like Ponder may be a welcome addition. There are also unique enchantments such as Energy Field and Stasis that some decks could try to take advantage of.

[wcm8]

A few topics others may wish to expand on:


The Combo Matchup
Acceleration
Interaction
Going Blue

The American metagame has relatively few combo players. I don't have exact statistics offhand, but I know at one 1200-man event, only like 50 of people were running combo. Regardless of the relatively low threat of getting matched vs. combo, we still need to consider whether running combo hate is worth the sideboard addition in a big tournament. I'm beginning to think that, no, it's not. None of your answers are especially reliable in terms of getting them out before turn two, and Mindbreak Trap is iffy at best due to Duress, Orim's Chant, and Xantid Swarm. Your best bet is simply running a couple more Runed Halos and hoping for the best.

This leaves other slots for other difficult but potentially winnable matchups. Reanimator can pose a real problem, and for this reason Lignify in addition to Oblivion Ring should be strongly considered. You can handle the other creatures, but Iona shutting off one color basically means you lose. Because your deck is already pretty much anti-dredge to begin with, your sideboard graveyard hate should probably focus on hurting Reanimator -- thus, Faerie Macabre and Tormod's Crypt over other options like Relic or Wheel of Sun and Moon.

Given the mana curve, I think 8-10 mana sources in addition to your 20 lands is mandatory. I have been liking my mix of 4 Sprawl, 3 Growth, 1 Exploration, and 2 Chrome Mox. It is very dependent upon how the rest of your deck is built, but having some turn 1 plays is key.

Limiting interaction -- how much better can you get than Solitary Confinement? I run 3. Then you shut down the attack step via Moat/Elephant Grass, with Solitary Confinement leading to many players scooping game 1. Even when they bring in their Grips or Reverent Silences on G2/G3, you will possibly have Karmic Justice as backup or be able to live another turn to replenish stuff back in. I don't think Enchantress really needs to run additional prison cards, because you are running 10+ of them already. 1 Blood Moon maindeck seems like it could fit in the silver bullet slot, but multiples might be an interesting idea.

Blue is an interesting idea, but Enchantress is a pretty tight deck as it is. To run FoW you'd want 14+ blue spells, and blue doesn't offer many great enchantments. Remember, white offers you Moat, Sterling Grove, Solitary Confinement, etc.. Enchantress is a very tight deck, and doesn't even run "auto includes" of its main colors (Swords to Plowshares, Tarmogoyf) because it wants the synergy from casting enchantments. Splashing blue just to include some counterspells and search seems like it would be hurting the consistency of the deck.

[wcm8]

.

[HPB_Eggo]

This may have already been brought up at one point or another, but what do people think of Trace of Abundance? It's basically Utopia Sprawl for one more, but it protects your non-basics, most importantly Serra's Sanctum, from everything short of things like Armageddon, Cataclysm, or Devastating Dreams.

Meh. I've found it works fairly well for me, but the speed of Legacy in my area is generally a few turns slower than everywhere else, so it might not be suited for more ordinary metas. It does let you run more non-basics, though, which is important for being able to drop an early Runed Halo or Aura of Silence, both of which are good against ANT, which is probably our worst match-up. In addition, you can dump it on a non-basic if it's your only land without fearing a two-for-one from Wasteland.

For the record, this is the list I am running as of the moment, which is probably a full turn slower than many of those out there. I post it mostly so you can see what I've done with the mana base and how I handle the first turn without Enlightened Tutor or Wild Growth, so try not to pick apart the whole list when I'm more or less suggesting one card.

Trace of Abundance is currently in the place of Wild Growth, for those who want to know what, if anything, it replaced.

4 Windswept Heath
4 Savannah
5 Forest
4 Plains
2 Serra's Sanctum
1 Taiga

4 Argothian Enchantress

4 Sterling Grove
4 Elephant Grass
4 Utopia Sprawl
2 Trace of Abundance
2 Exploration
3 Solitary Confinement
1 Ghostly Prison
2 Mirri's Guile
2 Replenish
2 Runed Halo
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Aura of Silence
1 Lignify
1 Words of War
1 Moat
1 Karmic Justice
1 Sacred Mesa

SB:
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Lignify
1 City of Solitude
2 Choke
2 Wheel of Sun and Moon
2 Sacred Ground
2 Aura of Silence
2 Karmic Justice
2 Runed Halo


On a final note, I do realize there's a search function, and I used it, although probably not properly, to see if this has already been brought up. I say it mostly because someone will feel the need to make a post reminding me of the search function, and this means you don't have to. Lucky you, eh?

[wcm8]

You have sacred ground in your sideboard. Do people in your meta run a lot of land destruction?

re: Trace of Abundance, it seems like a bit of a pet card to me. Getting W or G is generally not an issue, and R is only a factor when you're approaching the late game. You have 4 Sprawl, 4 Heaths, and a Taiga that will let you get it when the time is right. Words of War is rarely a good early game play.

Also, Trace is not an instant, therefore it doesn't protect against a Wasteland that's already on the table which is where its use would be nice. Enchantress's resiliency to wasteland is one of its strongest perks game 1. And then against fast decks that don't run Wasteland, eg: Zoo, having a turn one play is needed.

The first couple turns isn't the only time when Wild Growth's lower cost is a factor... It's also better when you are on your way towards 'comboing out' via War or Sigil. Which, btw, is absent in your list. I think you should include at least one of them as a wincon, even if you do decide to keep Sacred Mesa in there.

I see the advantage of protecting your Sanctum, but it seems like using a worse card just to do it isn't all that advantageous. Also, you only seem to be running 2 more non-basics than a typical Enchantress deck runs, so it's not like you're running 4 savannah, 4 taiga, 4 plateau, etc...

[Opax]

You have sacred ground in your sideboard. Do people in your meta run a lot of land destruction?



I use to play sacred ground in my sideboard because it work with sacrifices effects like smallpox, devastating dreams and smokestack.

[dontbiteitholmes]

I moved away from Sacred Ground in my SB recently. I used to bring it in vs. any deck that ran 8x or more land desctruction or any number of Armageddon effects but it was really only in the SB for Geddon insurance. With less and less decks running land sweepers I just don't see the urgent need. Only 1/3 of Aggro Loam decks seem to run Dreams and that leaves Geddon' Stax as the main deck worth the slot and then Karmic Justice is better most of the time. My SB is all over the place right now but before I sided the S. Ground back in I'd probably add a 2nd Justice unless something dramatically changed in the meta. For those who still run Ground how does it work for you and do you end up siding it in very often?

[anonymos]

In an already tight sideboard, Sacred Ground seems just a little too narrow. I think that it is better served by Karmic Justice because it also punishes opponents for sweepers. I understand that it is amazing for making you feel better vs. potential Armageddons, but they won't play them with Sacred Ground out anyway. They will hold off on it until they can remove your SG, then do it. I'd do the same thing vs. Karmic Justice anyway, but at least this way you get the more versatile answer in the board instead of the super narrow one.

[dontbiteitholmes]

In an already tight sideboard, Sacred Ground seems just a little too narrow. I think that it is better served by Karmic Justice because it also punishes opponents for sweepers. I understand that it is amazing for making you feel better vs. potential Armageddons, but they won't play them with Sacred Ground out anyway. They will hold off on it until they can remove your SG, then do it. I'd do the same thing vs. Karmic Justice anyway, but at least this way you get the more versatile answer in the board instead of the super narrow one.

My main concern is actually Devastating Dreams, Aggro Loam seems to be getting more popular as of late and I don't want to be a bye for them AND combo.

[wcm8]

Karmic Justice puts them in an awkward position, because you'll be blowing up the rest of their board. If you are playing against any deck that packs land destruction, you should be conservative with your lands drops and avoid overextending. Aggro Loam should be a decent matchup, and nowhere near the 'bye' you are describing. Drop a Moat and/or sustain a Solitary Confinement. Play Ground Seal main if you are expecting to see a lot of Loam. Put CoP Red or Worship in your sideboard. I really don't think this is too-difficult of a matchup if you get your engine rolling.

[anonymos]

Depending on their exact build, aggro loam has 2 cards you are scared of. Pridemage and Dreams. Pridemage is easy to work with. Dreams is trickier. KJ goes a long way. Holding a land or two in hand along with spreading the love with wild growths around instead of on a single land are nice. Another thing that I've noticed is neat is that blood moon makes them amazingly reliant on their diamonds.

[dontbiteitholmes]

Depending on their exact build, aggro loam has 2 cards you are scared of. Pridemage and Dreams. Pridemage is easy to work with. Dreams is trickier. KJ goes a long way. Holding a land or two in hand along with spreading the love with wild growths around instead of on a single land are nice. Another thing that I've noticed is neat is that blood moon makes them amazingly reliant on their diamonds.
There are a couple different ways to build aggro loam. What I'm concerned about is the version I feel is the best and thus expect the good players to be playing. That version runs MD Chalice of the Void, Devastating Dreams, and Burning Wish, something like this http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=32008 is what I think aggro loam is moving towards. Dreams doesn't trigger Justice because it's a sacrifice effect, Wish grabs Reverent Silence, Chalice for 1 is a PITA. Seems like a bad matchup to me.

Aside from Combo there are several matchups I don't like. Top of that list is Team America, BurningAggroLoam, and EvaGreen. Sacred Ground is good vs. all of those decks which is why I'm tempted to add one back in the side. Discard, counters, and sweepers are only so bad as one Replenish puts you back in the game but when those things are combined with Land Destruction things get tough real quick.

[(nameless one)]

I have been meaning to pick this deck up but I dont know where to start. I have lots of questions:

1) What is the skeleton of the deck? I know the deck revolves around Argonthian Enchantress and Enchantress's Presence. But what are the other Enchantments needed in the basic of the deck.

2) I currently do not own any duals. I did hear that this deck is the best dual color deck to run without the need of original duals. Will this deck be okay with just G/W?

3) With Qasali Pridemage and Trygon Predator being a common sight, would that be detrimental for the deck?

4) I am currently playing Quinn. Would you guys say that the playing style would be the same as that deck? Control early game, toolbox whatever you need then win big late game.

Thanks!

[claudio.r]

I have been meaning to pick this deck up but I dont know where to start. I have lots of questions:

1) What is the skeleton of the deck? I know the deck revolves around Argonthian Enchantress and Enchantress's Presence. But what are the other Enchantments needed in the basic of the deck.



Hi!

I've been playing this deck with some proxies for 2 months now, still getting all the cards needed... This is what i consider to be the skeleton of the deck:

4 Argothian Enchantress
4 Enchantress's Presence

4 Elephant Grass
3 Runed Halo
2 Solitary Confinement
1 Oblivion Ring
4 Sterling Grove

4 Wild Growth
4 Utopia Sprawl
2 Chrome Mox

1 Replenish

2 Kill Cards

2 Serra's Sanctum
18 other lands

Still no sure about the moxes, they can be very good or...useless ... it depends when and where you draw them, but accelarating into turn 1 enchantress and giving you some speed is very good in ths deck, since it's a deck that needs is time to get going. The deck is performing fine with only two colors, i'm running Sacred Mesa and Sigil as kill cards, sometimes i feel the need for an extra kill card, that being the case i would add another sigil.

Runed Halo as been MVP, since it answer so many cards like trygon predator, tendrils of agony, creatures from reanimator, you name it, sometimes is hard to know what to name with it, but with knowledge of the metagame you'll get it. If you are afraid of running into too many krosan grips and pridemages i would add another replenish to the deck.

This is a list from the top of my head, maybe i'm forgetting something. This is a deck that can be tweaked to the metagame you're in, it always have some free spots where you can MB some hate cards like, ground seal, choke, city of solitude.

Hope it helps and that my english isn't too bad...

[(nameless one)]

Hi!

-List-

Still no sure about the moxes, they can be very good or...useless ... it depends when and where you draw them, but accelarating into turn 1 enchantress and giving you some speed is very good in ths deck, since it's a deck that needs is time to get going. The deck is performing fine with only two colors, i'm running Sacred Mesa and Sigil as kill cards, sometimes i feel the need for an extra kill card, that being the case i would add another sigil.

Runed Halo as been MVP, since it answer so many cards like trygon predator, tendrils of agony, creatures from reanimator, you name it, sometimes is hard to know what to name with it, but with knowledge of the metagame you'll get it. If you are afraid of running into too many krosan grips and pridemages i would add another replenish to the deck.

This is a list from the top of my head, maybe i'm forgetting something. This is a deck that can be tweaked to the metagame you're in, it always have some free spots where you can MB some hate cards like, ground seal, choke, city of solitude.

Hope it helps and that my english isn't too bad...

I usually tend to build budget versions of the decks that I want to play before I actually play them. Surprisingly, I find that some of the budget options to be better on my meta (I pilot my budget Quinn deck better than my list with actual Painter-Stone combo-kill). That being said, would Elvish Spirit Guide or even Lotus Petal be a better choice (I have the two mentioned cards, I currently do not have Chrome Mox). Elvish Spirit Guide could also be a creature late game. Speaking of win cons, would 2x Sigil + 1x Sacred Mesa work?

I haven't had really problem on what to name with Runed Halo. I use it in my Quinn deck and so far, it has not disappoint me. I'll try to get my own rough copy of the deck and test it on MWS. See if I like it.

Thanks!

[claudio.r]

The deck works well without chrome mox, ESG and Lotus petal are cute, but are even worst topdecks than chrome mox latter in the game. If you're not going to run chrome mox, try to run something like Enlightened tutor, wich is a good turn 1 play. The beauty of this deck, is that you can try a lot of different things ;)

[(nameless one)]

The deck works well without chrome mox, ESG and Lotus petal are cute, but are even worst topdecks than chrome mox latter in the game. If you're not going to run chrome mox, try to run something like Enlightened tutor, wich is a good turn 1 play. The beauty of this deck, is that you can try a lot of different things ;)

I like trying different things.

If I go turn 1 Tutor, What would I usually tutor for ?

[claudio.r]

Normally you only play tutor turn 1 if you know what you're playing against, since it's an instant you can also go in the end of the opponents turn. Normally i would go for runed halo or elephant grass, or if you don't have any enchantress effect in your hand you can go for presence.

[wcm8]

If you are seeking a budget option to Moat, you can try the following: Humility, Arboria (make sure you are running Sacred Mesa though), or Worship. They aren't quite as good as Moat in most situations, but can serve as good placeholders in the meantime. Alternatively, just run one more Solitary Confinement.

[dontbiteitholmes]

I have been meaning to pick this deck up but I dont know where to start. I have lots of questions:

1) What is the skeleton of the deck? I know the deck revolves around Argonthian Enchantress and Enchantress's Presence. But what are the other Enchantments needed in the basic of the deck.

2) I currently do not own any duals. I did hear that this deck is the best dual color deck to run without the need of original duals. Will this deck be okay with just G/W?

3) With Qasali Pridemage and Trygon Predator being a common sight, would that be detrimental for the deck?

4) I am currently playing Quinn. Would you guys say that the playing style would be the same as that deck? Control early game, toolbox whatever you need then win big late game.

Thanks!
Answers
1) I would consider the basic skeleton of the deck to be...
~Maindeck~
4x Argothian Enchantress
4x Enchantress's Presence
2x Replenish
3x Sterling Grove
4x Utopia Sprawl
1x Moat
1x Runed Halo
3x Solitary Confinement
3x Elephant Grass
1x Oblivion Ring
2x Savannah
4x Windswept Heath
2x Serra's Sanctum
1x Win Condition (Sacred Mesa or Sigil of Empty Throne)
-Then if Red splash is used (which I consider the superior build BTW)
1x Words of War
1x Taiga and 11x More Lands
-And if it's not
12x More Lands
1x More Win Conditions

~Sideboard~
1x Circle of Protection: Red
1x Aura of Silence
2x Karmic Justice

And a total of atleast 3 Runed Halos between MD and SB

Any Enchantress deck that didn't fit into those boundaries at this point without a strong metagame reason I would not consider optimal.

So that means, by my calculations you have 14 slots to play with maindeck and 11 in the side. I'd suggest adding 3-4 mana accelerators main and a Karakas and Lignify if you expect any legendary angels to be showing up. Then I'd suggest atleast 4 GY hate cards between MD and side whether they are Ground Seal, Wheel, artifacts, or whatever is up to you. Also I'd throw in atleast 3 cards that hose counterspell or blue somewhere since it is such and important matchup to be strong in.

2) Yes the deck will be "okay." Will it be optimal? No, but it should be okay. Really if I were to make a budget version the first thing I would do would be to add, yes, dual lands. Really if you already have the fetches 1x Savannah and 1x Taiga make the deck about 30% better at least. If you are going the budget route even 1x Taiga with fetches is going to be a good call. Just adding 1x Taiga, 1x Blood Moon, and 1x War of Words will win you so many games you wouldn't believe it. Really depends on how budget you need to get. Not having Moat hurts, but not having access to red is much worse. If you do go budget I would suggest Wild Growth over Lotus Petals. Once you get going if you run Growth it will be much easier to combo out and since your deck is already slightly handicapped the loss of first turn enchantress for second turn enchantress with Daze insurance or 2nd turn presence with an extra mana and a meatier deck mid combo is probably better. Really though if you already have the fetchlands you should just shell out 50-60 dollars for 2 duals and make the deck much better.

3) Atleast they make Deed even less reliable since Deed is such bad news for us. Also this is why I play 4 Groves MD.

4) Most games I'm not so much toolboxing as tearing through my deck drawing cards and stacking lock pieces one after the other until my kill condition comes online. Toolbox is plan B most of the time, or insurance policy depending on what the other person is playing (IE digging out a Justice vs. decks that run sweepers).

[(nameless one)]

I usually have this ritual of playing a suboptimal version of the deck before actually go full-blown on it. That said, would Ravnica duals work with this deck or would its drawback detrimental to the deck?

Also, I dont think Humility would work in this deck. Enchantress will lose her effect.

Can anyone how Arboria actually works. I dont know if I'm just braincramped from work but I don't seem to understand it. So you can only attack the player if that player plays something right?

[Sevryn]

I usually have this ritual of playing a suboptimal version of the deck before actually go full-blown on it. That said, would Ravnica duals work with this deck or would its drawback detrimental to the deck?

As far as duals go, I run my enchantress with one taiga. I'm considering adding a Savannah, but I'm not sure it's really necessary. Ravnica duals would be fine, as long as you have the Windswept Heaths to smooth your colors out. I run 5 fetchlands total at the moment.

[jhhdk]

While were on the topic of dual lands, how many is too many, if you want some resilience to moon effects and waste lock?

[sunshine]

Can anyone how Arboria actually works. I dont know if I'm just braincramped from work but I don't seem to understand it. So you can only attack the player if that player plays something right?

You're right. Players who cast no spells and put no (non-token) permanents (including lands) onto the battlefield can't be attacked until after their next turn. So,essentially as long as you spend your turns doing nothing other than pumping out pegasus tokens - you're safe from attacks.

[Sevryn]

While were on the topic of dual lands, how many is too many, if you want some resilience to moon effects and waste lock?

It honestly depends on how many double-white spells you are playing. If you are playing 4 Runed Halo and 2 Moat, you want at least 3 Savannahs. If you run few double-white spells, then running 1 allows it to be fetched.

Really though, you want some acceleration in your opening hand, and if you have utopia sprawl, you'd really rather have a forest. If you have only non-basics in your opening hand, wasteland can be a 2 for 1.

I am happy with my mana base. For reference:

4 Windswept Heath
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Taiga
2 Serra's Sanctum
4 Plains
9 Forest

If I was to add 1-2 Savannahs, I would remove Plains for them.

[jiazhouhuaqiao]

There are a LOT of options versus Moat, including Dueling Grounds and Humility. Or simply another copy of Sigil of the Empty Throne, or Solitary Confinement, or Martyr's Cause. They all stop creature combat damage, bottom line.

If baffles me why some players esteem Moat so highly. Moat is really narrow and basically helps against matchups that Enchantress already has a dozen other ways of shutting down.

[wcm8]

Agreed. And even against some forms of aggro (eg: Zoo), by the time you land it you may be in burn range, or they can simply QPM it. Where it's really great is against goblins, dreadstill, and other similar decks. But in those cases, a Confinement with backup is still better.

If you have Moat, great. If you don't, there are other more important things you should be getting with your money.

[dontbiteitholmes]

There are a LOT of options versus Moat, including Dueling Grounds and Humility. Or simply another copy of Sigil of the Empty Throne, or Solitary Confinement, or Martyr's Cause. They all stop creature combat damage, bottom line.

If baffles me why some players esteem Moat so highly. Moat is really narrow and basically helps against matchups that Enchantress already has a dozen other ways of shutting down.


Agreed. And even against some forms of aggro (eg: Zoo), by the time you land it you may be in burn range, or they can simply QPM it. Where it's really great is against goblins, dreadstill, and other similar decks. But in those cases, a Confinement with backup is still better.

If you have Moat, great. If you don't, there are other more important things you should be getting with your money.
Whoa guys, slow down. First off I agree that Moat is not the most important card in the deck. If I had $120 to spend on either a better mana base and a couple Moxes or a Moat I would go with 2-3 duals, whatever fetches I didn't have, and some Chrome Moxes or ESGs/Petals whatever way you want to go with your mana acceleration and maybe a Karakas and at least have the optimal land setup for the deck. That said though Moat is really really really good. Solitary Confinement is obviously the best protection but you have to have a couple enchantresses in play or it doesn't last long. Moat stops about 90% of the creatures that people play in Legacy from attacking and doesn't require anything but 4 mana. Against any deck that plans on winning by attacking Moat is the best protection card in your deck until you have atleast 2 draw effects out. I can't tell you how many times I've been staring down enough creatures to kill me next turn then tutored up a Moat and won easily after it hits play. Also it easily lands on turn 3 most games since most lists run 6/7/8 or more mana accelerators. Moat is soooo good, if you don't want to shell out $100 for one I can't blame you but it definitely belongs in the decklist when price is not an issue. Don't let anyone tell you Moat doesn't belong in an optimal Enchantress list. Most CountertopGoyf and Merfolk decks can't deal damage to you while Moat is out and those are the 2 most popular decks in the format, that alone makes it a must include (again when money is not an issue).

[wcm8]

I agree with you, my point was simply that to play the deck you don't *need* Moat as much as you need a good mana base.

[dontbiteitholmes]

I agree with you, my point was simply that to play the deck you don't *need* Moat as much as you need a good mana base.

Yes, a good mana base is the most important part of a successful enchantress deck. It doesn't matter what cards are in your deck, at some point if you dont run duals you won't be able to play an important card when u need it and it will cost you a game. Especially when you don't have Moat and you rely on Halo, sooner or later you are going to wish you could fetch out a savannah turn 1.

[JrGman2004]

Took Enchantress to another SCG Open, this time in Atlanta. Did fairly well, and not to pissed at any of my losses.

Don't have my decklist handy that I ran, but one major change from my list earlier in this thread was to drop a land and a wild growth for a couple more silver bullets in the main deck. One of those cards was a Blood Moon. I also eliminated Sacred Ground from the board, and went with something that looked like this...

3x Mindbreak Trap
1x CoP: Red
1x Aura of Silence
2x Vexing Susher
1x Runed Halo
1x Enlightened Tutor
1x Chalice of the Void
2x Tormod's Crypt
2x Wheel of Sun and Moon
1x Elephant Grass (2 in the main)

Rnd 1: Mono Black Rogues, 2-1, 1-0.
Kind of a weird match since it was a straight up aggro match and he prowled out an Earwig Squad early. I breathed a sigh of relief since I had a Sigil in hand, but he went for a Sigil, Replenish, and an Elephant Grass. Confused the crap out of me, but he struck me as being a rogue player and not a great player anyways. I was on the ropes and needed a removal, he had the black spell that counters unless it's opponent pays 5 and I was at 5, so I lost g1. G2 he got some discarders going on me, but I was able to drop a Moat after he had prowled an Earwig squad again, this time grabing 2 Solitarys and a Replenish. After the moat, I dropped a Runed Halo on his one flyer, and took the game. Game 3 went about the same way, it was tight at first, but I pulled away for the win.

Rnd 2: Eva Green/Dark Depths Combo - Charles Chandler - 1-2, 1-1.
I had beat Charles in the 6th of 7 rounds in Orlando when he was playing Eva Green. Real nice guy and was a pleasure to play him again. He changed his deck to incorporate Living Wish and the Dark Depths combo. He was able to beat my face in pretty quickly in G1 after I mulled to 5 and got hit with a little bit of hand disruption. Couldn't get set up, and lost quickly. G2, I was able to stabilize for a little bit and then drop a Blood Moon with him having all non basics. He scooped and we went to G3. I again had to mull down, and this time he had Dark Depths combo in hand to kill me on T4. I only had a few outs and was stuck with a Forest and Utopia Sprawl naming white. I had a Solitary in my hand, so my only hope was to draw a Lignify or another land and I drew a 2nd Enchantress's Presence. Good games to Charles.

Rnd 3: UW Thopter Foundry Combo - Joseph Keaveny - 2-1, 2-1.
First game went pretty easy for me. He got stuck on 2 lands for a while, and had Counterbalance/Top set up, but I can play around that and grab the win without seeing what he had. I didn't figure out that he was playing Thopter combo until I saw it in G2. I got behind pretty quick and could never catch up in G2 and lost. G3 was pretty epic. We fought hard and ended up stalling out and going to turns. He was over 20 life, but I don't remember exactly (I think 24). On T3, I was able to tutor up my one super secret tech card that no one else runs... Concordant Crossroads! I only had 3 Angels to attack with and a Words of War on the board. I didn't have enough cards or mana to burn him out and get him with the 3 angels because of his 2 thopter tokens left (if I recall correctly). I was able to play Moat, take 2 draws and burn the two tokens. Play my Concordant Crossroads I just drew and burn him for 6, taking him to 18. I then had 5 Angels, and they had haste, and I was able to swing for win. That was a case where having my one super secret tech card won me a game and a round (and it has done so in both SCG Opens I attended).

Rnd 4: Bant Aggro - Colin - 2-0, 3-1.
This ended up being a pretty easy win. It was kind of like playing a Bant version of Canadian Thresh, but with less counter back up and more threats. Wasn't to difficult to play past his counters, and he also drew a Force a turn too late to catch my Words of War. Oh, G1, he had dropped Worship, so I had to waste some time burning off his creatures after I had lock down before killing him.

Rnd 5: RB Goblins - Todd Anderson, 2-1, 4-1.
G1 went my way and I was able to drop stuff and slow him down. He ended up scooping after playing a card wrong, but I was in control anyways with a Moat. G2 he came out of the shoot amazingly fast and I couldn't find answers to slow him down and he took it. G3 I think he took a bad hand, because it took him 3 or 4 turns to play anything, and Goblins should never do that. G3 was tense. I had about 3 turns in a row where I had basically nothing in my hand, with 2 draw effects and a Solitary I dropped because I was about to die. If I had drawn 2 lands in any of those times, I would have been screwed, since I was pitching one card I drew and had to play the other, since they kept being cards I couldn't play after drawing since I had 4 mana. Finally on the 3rd or 4th try, I drew into a Replenish and a Sigil. My turn came around, I let Solitary die and everyone cheered. I then followed it up with the Replenish and brought a lot of stuff back. *sigh* of relief right there and I went on to take the win.

Rnd 6: GWB Rock/Stax/Geddon - Ian Ellis, 2-0, 5-1.
Another awesome guy to play against. Ian was a pleasure to talk to after the game and I think we both had a lot of fun playing our round. G1 was very interesting as I didn't really know what he was playing. He had gotten out ahead and started dropping stuff, had made some Angels, played a blood moon, and he scooped, since he had fetched for all Duals. He told me after the round that the turn after I dropped the Blood Moon, he was going to Geddon, drop a land, and tutor up a Tabernacle with his Reliquary Knight to clear all my tokens. But I derailed that plan. G2, he was able to Geddon with a Goyf on board. He started beating my face in, getting me to 8 before I was able to play the lands and find a Lignify to turn his guy into a tree. Thankfully, I hadn't overextended too far with my lands yet, and had had 2 in my hand and just needed to find that Lignify. From there, I was able to get set up, and play another Bloodmoon (he had basics this time) and went on to take the win from there.

Rnd 7: RU Painter's Servant/Grindstone - 0-2, 5-2.
Such a tough match up. There wasn't much I could do. Painter's Servent naming blue, and then Pyro Blast and REB my stuff away was not fun. Oh well, can't be too pissed about this loss, especially when he was able to combo on T3 after countering my Wheel of Sun and Moon with a REB.

Rnd 8: Zoo - 0-2, 5-3.
He came out super super hot in both games and there wasn't much I could do. Probably wouldn't have made T16 anyways with my tie breakers. Oh well.

Overall, a good showing. Met some awesome people, and was able to chat with another Enchantress player that I met down in Orlando. He didn't do very well. Also went to this Korean BBQ place called Gobawoo. I had Bulgogi. It wasn't too bad, but the experience was a lot of fun and I had a great road trip with some good friends.

[wcm8]

What changes, if any, would you make to the deck based on your performance?

[neenjafus]

I'm interested in playing this deck but I'm a bit concerned about the recent surge in reanimator. I'd run a main deck lignify and 1 or 2 more side but does I do expect 2-3 reanimator at my local tourney (8-12 people usually)

What would you guys do given that?

Thanks!

[magicplaya10]

I'm interested in playing this deck but I'm a bit concerned about the recent surge in reanimator. I'd run a main deck lignify and 1 or 2 more side but does I do expect 2-3 reanimator at my local tourney (8-12 people usually)

What would you guys do given that?

Thanks!

Karakas is another solid answer.

[anonymos]

I'm interested in playing this deck but I'm a bit concerned about the recent surge in reanimator. I'd run a main deck lignify and 1 or 2 more side but does I do expect 2-3 reanimator at my local tourney (8-12 people usually)

What would you guys do given that?

Thanks!

I'd strongly consider playing something else instead of Enchantress. Either that or swap to a build with 4 Enlightened Tutors and 4 Sterling Grove so you can tutor for Lignify/O. Ring easily based on what color they name. Either way you have to get there faster than their Iona. Their other guys you really don't care (much) about because you can answer them normally. Those are just kind of rough. If you go the E. Tutor route, you can also board in Ensnaring Bridge and/or Umbilicus.

[ESG]

If you go the E. Tutor route, you can also board in Ensnaring Bridge and/or Umbilicus.

Ensnaring Bridge will keep Iona at bay unless it's postboard and they have Krosan Grip(s). But unless you can quickly find a way to remove her (and that will be hard with a color shut off), they're likely to locate an answer to the Bridge before you find one for Iona. Terastodon is her deadly co-conspirator here. Umbilicus is bad unless you already have Ensnaring Bridge out. Noetic Scales is a better answer. If you have a Grove out before Iona hits the table, you're fine, assuming they don't have Force of Will or Krosan Grip for whatever you tutored up to stop Iona. If Grove is in your hand when Iona swoops down, you're in a lot of trouble.

[anonymos]

Yeah, I was thinking of the wrong thing. I agree about Noetic Scales. I think thats what I was thinking of.

[TheSleeper]

What about Drop of Honey? :)

[wcm8]

Or Poryphory (sp?) Nodes. Same card, just white.

Problem with these is they don't work immediately, and your Argothian's are probably gonna be the first to go.

[dontbiteitholmes]

Oh man, come on, you can't suggest people run 4x Grove 4x E. Tutor, that is just not good for anything. If Iona names white it also shuts down all 8 of those cards and she almost always names white. Karakas is better also graveyard hate. I'd rather run 4x Faerie Macabre in SB than 4x extra MD tutors for a deck that won't ever be more then 25% of the meta. Don't forget everytime a new deck comes up you can't just rip up the old gamebook and throw 10x extra hate slots at it because there are still atleast 12-15 other decks to worry about. I played 3 Reanimator decks in Atlanta and lost 2 won 1. All of the games went to game 3 though and most were very close (except my round 5 game 3 which was a blowout and he had 3x Grips in hand when he won). My first round loss went to top 8 (Jesse Hatfield) and my 5th round loss got 7th at the last open and lost his last match to miss top 8 (John Cuvelier) so I'm not ready to throw out the whole deck and start over. Every match could have been won had things gone a little different so I'm tweaking my 75 a little and running it back. My whole MD might change 1 card on account of Reanimator. Setting your deck on fire and throwing it at a bad matchup is just going to make every other matchup a little worse and even though I played 3 rounds vs. Reanimator out of 8 that also means I play 5 matchs vs. non-Reanimating decks. The deck is still not Flash-Hulk so slow down a little guys. The meta will adjust to hate on Reanimator and Combo after this weekend since it's obvious a lot of people were sleeping on those decks. If anything I feel better going into the next big tournament. Also don't forget that Reanimator with green splash may be better vs. us but against a deck with blue and White or Black it just opens them up for the 2 way assault of normal creature hate + Submerge which may be why you see a lot of players passing on green.

[arcboundravager2]

I'm interested in playing this deck but I'm a bit concerned about the recent surge in reanimator. I'd run a main deck lignify and 1 or 2 more side but does I do expect 2-3 reanimator at my local tourney (8-12 people usually)

What would you guys do given that?

Thanks!
i personally play 2 ground seals in the main and a lignify in the board and it keeps things in check pretty well

[tomjulioo]

i play
MD:
1 E tutor
1 lignify
1 ground seal
1 karakas
SB
2 E tutor
3 Wheel

seems to be enough... reanimator is not my main concern... i fear more combo than reanimator because it's more powerfull and more common to see

[JrGman2004]

i play
MD:
1 E tutor
1 lignify
1 ground seal
1 karakas
SB
2 E tutor
3 Wheel

seems to be enough... reanimator is not my main concern... i fear more combo than reanimator because it's more powerfull and more common to see

My MD looks like yours, but I only have 1 E Tutor and 2 Wheels in the board. I would also keep my 1 MD Blood moon in as well as City of Solitude in case we get to the later game to keep them off me after the early disruption.

Also have to add that I didn't see Reanimator or ANT in my 8 rounds at Atlanta and you usally don't see a deck twice, much less 3 times, like Holmes did in Atlanta.

I only saw 3 combo decks... Dark Depths in Rnd 2, Thopter Foundry in Rnd 3 and Painter's Servant in Rnd 7. Everything else was aggro, and even the Dark Depths combo was aggroish with a combo thrown in and he only got Dark Depths out on me in G3. And Thopter Foundry isn't nearly the same as other combo decks.

[tomjulioo]

My MD looks like yours, but I only have 1 E Tutor and 2 Wheels in the board. I would also keep my 1 MD Blood moon in as well as City of Solitude in case we get to the later game to keep them off me after the early disruption.

Also have to add that I didn't see Reanimator or ANT in my 8 rounds at Atlanta and you usally don't see a deck twice, much less 3 times, like Holmes did in Atlanta.

I only saw 3 combo decks... Dark Depths in Rnd 2, Thopter Foundry in Rnd 3 and Painter's Servant in Rnd 7. Everything else was aggro, and even the Dark Depths combo was aggroish with a combo thrown in and he only got Dark Depths out on me in G3. And Thopter Foundry isn't nearly the same as other combo decks.

dark depths's token is black so it's not a problem to deal with it (elephant grass)
i don't play blood moon MD but i have it in my SB... and i'm thinking about cutting it! i'd like to test a second karakas in that SB slot:
-to have a better matchup against reanimator, bant survival and dredge
-to have 1 more white mana source against combo to have a better chance to play T1 tutor T2 halo

at the moment, my list is this one:
// Deck file for Magic Workstation (http://www.magicworkstation.com)

// Lands
2 [APL] Plains (2)
3 [A] Savannah
2 [US] Serra's Sanctum
4 [ON] Windswept Heath
6 [EUL] Forest (3)
1 [A] Taiga
1 [LG] Karakas
1 [FUT] Horizon Canopy

// Creatures
4 [US] Argothian Enchantress

// Spells
2 [UD] Replenish
4 [VI] Elephant Grass
2 [ALA] Oblivion Ring
2 [JU] Solitary Confinement
4 [ON] Enchantress's Presence
2 [TE] Mirri's Guile
2 [CFX] Sigil of the Empty Throne
1 [ON] Words of War
4 [DIS] Utopia Sprawl
4 [IN] Sterling Grove
3 [A] Wild Growth
1 [LRW] Lignify
1 [VI] City of Solitude
1 [OD] Ground Seal
1 [SHM] Runed Halo
1 [LG] Moat
1 [MI] Enlightened Tutor

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [WL] Aura of Silence
SB: 1 [JU] Solitary Confinement
SB: 1 [OD] Karmic Justice
SB: 1 [VI] City of Solitude
SB: 3 [SHM] Wheel of Sun and Moon
SB: 1 [TE] Choke
SB: 2 [SHM] Runed Halo
SB: 2 [MI] Enlightened Tutor
SB: 1 [DK] Blood Moon
SB: 1 [LRW] Oblivion Ring
SB: 1 [TE] Humility

i think i won't change the MD...
i'm thinking about the following SB changes:
+1 Null Rod / -1 Runed halo as it can come in the ANT matchup as well as in the thopter combo matchup, it's good against belcher and may come in against CB decks (to stop top) too. also, in the combo matchup where you need it early, it doesn't need the WW to be played. i'd like to play Damping Matrix to shut down Qasali Pridemage but 3 manas is too much and it doesn't stop combo (mana abilities) like rod do.
+1 Karakas / -1 Oblivion ring for the reasons explained above. and Oblivion ring doesn't worth a SB slot.
+1 ground seal / -1 Wheel of sun and moon because in the matchup you need Wheel, you will enter E tutor so you can fetch them early game and later, Ground seal is better because you draw.
+1 Aura of silence / -1 humility or -1 Blood Moon is humility really needed? of course it stops Quasali. not sure at all about this change...
other things i'd like to add but 15 cards is not enough: 2nd karmic, 4th tutor

i hope the results of the GP Lyon Side event will help me making choices!

[Oiolosse]

I ran across this the other day and want to know what you guys think about it.

Energy Storm
1W

Cumulative upkeep 1
Damage dealt my sorcories and instants is reduced to zero.
Creatures with flying do not untap during their controller's untap step.

Looks pretty nice against burn and most importantly zoo. Then great combined with moat as an all out creature stopper (except their first attack).

[HPB_Eggo]

If you're going to run Energy Storm, you might as well run Aegis of Honor, instead. Comes down turn one, instead of turn two when you want to be playing Argothian. It only costs one, which means its cheaper draw when it no longer matters. Lacking a cumulative upkeep is nice, as well. Doesn't help against ANT, obviously, but it's good against a number of other decks.

[dontbiteitholmes]

i think i won't change the MD...
i'm thinking about the following SB changes:
+1 Null Rod / -1 Runed halo as it can come in the ANT matchup as well as in the thopter combo matchup, it's good against belcher and may come in against CB decks (to stop top) too. also, in the combo matchup where you need it early, it doesn't need the WW to be played. i'd like to play Damping Matrix to shut down Qasali Pridemage but 3 manas is too much and it doesn't stop combo (mana abilities) like rod do.
+1 Karakas / -1 Oblivion ring for the reasons explained above. and Oblivion ring doesn't worth a SB slot.
+1 ground seal / -1 Wheel of sun and moon because in the matchup you need Wheel, you will enter E tutor so you can fetch them early game and later, Ground seal is better because you draw.
+1 Aura of silence / -1 humility or -1 Blood Moon is humility really needed? of course it stops Quasali. not sure at all about this change...
other things i'd like to add but 15 cards is not enough: 2nd karmic, 4th tutor

i hope the results of the GP Lyon Side event will help me making choices!
Humility sucks IMO. 90% of the decks you face with Quasali will be Bant or Zoo. Zoo you need quick Solitary lock or COP:Red to prevent them from burning you out. Since I don't see COP:Red in those 15 I wouldn't be too quick to turn all my Angel tokens and Argothians into 1/1's. Makes you end the game slower and Solitary lock slower which are counter-intuitive to beating Zoo. Bant, atleast with my MD/SB is slightly favorable to even games 2/3 depending on CounterTop/Predator/EE/Spellstutter. Countertop is favorable but the more EE, Predator, Spellstutter they run the less favorable it is. I'd actually say Bant aggro w/ Spellstutter is probably slightly unfavorable at this point but a change in 1 SB card could change that if I feel like it's an issue. I'll probably leave 1 variable spot in my SB and size up the competition before I decide what to run. Unfortunately in ATL I sized up the competition and judged ANT to be the biggest threat, went a little overboard, and ended up cutting 2 cards that might have helped my Reanimator MU for 2 cards that were only good against storm combo then faced 3 rounds of Reanimator.

[anonymos]

I've been thinking something similar on Humility. It's nice, but there are better things for that slot. I don't even bring it in all that often I've noticed. I think the only reason I have it is because mine is Spanish.

[tomjulioo]

i'm ok about humility...

so what do you think about my MD guys?

[mattguy]

I'm interested in playing this deck but I'm a bit concerned about the recent surge in reanimator. I'd run a main deck lignify and 1 or 2 more side but does I do expect 2-3 reanimator at my local tourney (8-12 people usually)

What would you guys do given that?

Thanks!

Hmmm... personally if you have 4 Ground Seals main board, that shouldn't be a problem? I actually ran 4 main board as it is a cantrip and it accelerates my card draw when enchantress is not fully online. I'm not sure of any other answers apart for lignify?

[dontbiteitholmes]

Hmmm... personally if you have 4 Ground Seals main board, that shouldn't be a problem? I actually ran 4 main board as it is a cantrip and it accelerates my card draw when enchantress is not fully online. I'm not sure of any other answers apart for lignify?

Ground Seal is not a terrible MD silver bullet because it draws and deals with Loam decks. I wouldn't run 4 MD though, it doesn't do anything vs. Fish, Zoo, Countertop, ANT, UW Tempo, or Beltcher, which should make up a large % of the field. Also against Reanimator it stops 4 Reanimates, but doesn't stop 4x Exhume, and possibly 1x Show and Tell and they have 4x Mystical Tutors to find Exhume with if they need it. So really you are stopping 4 of 12-13 MD cards that can end up getting a creature back from the graveyard. MD answers to Reanimator are Karakas, Lignify, Moat (Inkwell/Terastodon), Runed Halo, Oblivion Ring, Ground Seal, and Solitary Confinement, but many of those answers only take care of one specific threat. Anyways I wouldn't run 4x Ground Seal, maybe 1 or 2 max and only 2 if I expected a large amount of Loam decks for some reason.

[tomjulioo]

i'm set on my SB:
SB: 1 [WL] Aura of Silence
SB: 1 [JU] Solitary Confinement
SB: 1 [OD] Karmic Justice
SB: 1 [VI] City of Solitude
SB: 2 [SHM] Wheel of Sun and Moon (-1)
SB: 1 [TE] Choke
SB: 2 [SHM] Runed Halo
SB: 3 [MI] Enlightened Tutor (+1)
SB: 1 [WL] Null Rod (+1)
SB: 1 [A] Circle of Protection: Red (+1)
SB: 1 [OD] Ground Seal (+1)
SB: 0 [DK] Blood Moon (-1)
SB: 0 [LRW] Oblivion Ring (-1)
SB: 0 [TE] Humility (-1)

i hope i'll do great things at Bazaar Of Moxen with that list...

[Pienterekaak]

I went to the Grand Prix Madrid with enchantress , which packed 1 humility sideboard.
I boarded this in every game against zoo (which were around 7 games) and i never tutored for it.. there was always something more important than a humility to tutor (like confinement for example). So i am removing it from the sideboard.
I like the side idea about playing a few 1 offs and playing extra tutors.. ill test it and discuss this with my team.

[JrGman2004]

I went to the Grand Prix Madrid with enchantress , which packed 1 humility sideboard.
I boarded this in every game against zoo (which were around 7 games) and i never tutored for it.. there was always something more important than a humility to tutor (like confinement for example). So i am removing it from the sideboard.
I like the side idea about playing a few 1 offs and playing extra tutors.. ill test it and discuss this with my team.

This is the great thing about Enchantress and having the E Tutors plus Sterling Grove. You can put a card in as a one or two of, and still be able to fairly reliably find it. Of course, it's nicer to find it in your opening hand... but it let's you keep a better looking hand that has one of your E Tutors in it, rather than mulling to 4 looking for a sb card...

[wcm8]

I don't want to fill this topic with unfounded rumors, but there is a discussion going around that the GP Columbus judge foil is Land Tax, and that it may be under possible consideration for unbanning in Legacy. If this were the case, I think Enchantress would probably become way more competitive with its inclusion (Perhaps as a 3 or 4-of). The deck can get by playing fewer lands thanks to Wild Growth, Sprawl, and Sanctum, so it would essentially be a guaranteed thing every turn after you landed it. It could draw heat away from your better cards from Quasali Pridemage and such, and function in saving you from mana screw and thinning the deck to improve draws. Enchantress could possibly drop down to playing 18 lands to make room for it.

Just a rumor, of course, but I think it's unbanning would be very relevant to this deck.

[dontbiteitholmes]

I don't want to fill this topic with unfounded rumors, but there is a discussion going around that the GP Columbus judge foil is Land Tax, and that it may be under possible consideration for unbanning in Legacy. If this were the case, I think Enchantress would probably become way more competitive with its inclusion (Perhaps as a 3 or 4-of). The deck can get by playing fewer lands thanks to Wild Growth, Sprawl, and Sanctum, so it would essentially be a guaranteed thing every turn after you landed it. It could draw heat away from your better cards from Quasali Pridemage and such, and function in saving you from mana screw and thinning the deck to improve draws. Enchantress could possibly drop down to playing 18 lands to make room for it.

Just a rumor, of course, but I think it's unbanning would be very relevant to this deck.

Really I don't see Land Tax being good in any deck personally. Enchantress will always want to drop a land turn 1 because you can't cast an Enchantress with less than 2 mana and you can't Wild Growth a Mox. Skipping a land drop vs. Zoo, Goblins, Thresh, or Merfolk would be a disaster since all those decks can work on one land more easily than you and could easily just skip a turn 2 land drop to play 1cmc cards and come out farther ahead. Goblins has Vial and Lackey, by the time Reanimator gets to 2 lands they combo usually, so that covers about 70% of the American meta. The only use I could see for Land Tax would be as a 1 of SB in a Hymn/Sinkhole heavy meta. I wouldn't be surprised if Tax was unbanned, but I would be surprised if it was actually playable.

[Julian23]

I don't visit this thread a lot anymore but I also wanna express my strong opinion that I see no place for Land Tax in this deck, not even close. What does it do? Give you some lands. So what does that do? I'd rather have any other card in the deck than Land Tax or lands.

[HPB_Eggo]

A build with four Exploration and four Land Tax would probably be worth testing, although I seriously doubt it will be any good.

[Julian23]

So, you're only going to trigger Land Tax just once? Na, Land Tax has its place in decks that can make use of the card advantage. Enchantress can't.

[dontbiteitholmes]

Yeah Land Tax kind of sucks really. It would be good as a one of vs. decks that ran Sinkhole and Hymn or that were based around Smallpox in a Tutor SB but outside of that it's very weak and wayyy too situational for our deck.

[JrGman2004]

If it becomes legal, I will at least test it as a one of. It can be a really nice T1 play... it let's you keep a hand with just one or two lands, with the other 4 or 5 cards being the nuts... but you look at it and go, what if I don't draw the 3rd land I have to have?

I don't see running it as more than a 1-of. Sure, that means it will be inconsistent in getting it... but it could be very helpful to get you going early. Especially works against something running Geddon, or packing Wastelands... that would also let you keep a Savannah/Land Tax hand even if you know your opponent is running Wastelands.

[anonymos]

I fear we are entering the realm of cool things. I heard there is danger in this land.

[waSP]

Land Tax could work in Enchantress (but with a build with 12-14 land, probably), but the deck would be completely re-configured. Without someone posting a list to discuss, there will be nothing for anyone to focus on. An interested party should do so.

[wcm8]

Re: cool things, to some extent that's how the whole deck is. You have a rigid skeleton that works, and then around 8-10 "cool" slots to play around with based on your meta. I mean there was someone that was playing Concordant Crossroads, and that seems far more situational than Land Tax and more of a win-more type of card.

20 lands
8 enchantress
8 land aura
4 elephant grass
2-3 win conditions
2-3 solitary confinement
1 moat
4 sterling grove
2 runed halo
2 replenish

...Then 5 free slots if you go with the above list. I personally run 3 accelerants (2 Chrome Mox, 1 exploration), 1 oblivion ring, and 1 enlightened tutor. That Exploration could be replaced with Land Tax with no real ill harm just to test it out. Or maybe in the board to help with land destruction and discard decks. I agree that running multiples isn't beneficial for Enchantress, but the card can function pretty well. If you activate it once it's done its job, and anything past that point is just ridiculous. It certainly seems better than Mirri's Guile or Sylvan Library in the right situation.

Obviously Land Tax is meant to be abused by decks running Scroll Rack and/or Sensei's Divining Top. But regardless, it's a moot point because we don't know whether or not the card is actually going to be unbanned.

[dontbiteitholmes]

I don't really see what Land Tax would accomplish here anyways. We already generate more mana than any other deck and we do it faster. What are you gonna do with 3 extra land in your hand anyways? Pitch it to Mox Diamond and Solitary Confinement? Then you have to change the deck around just to use Land Tax since you can't really abuse it. So then if you don't get Tax into play what happens? Even if you put in Scroll Rack I don't see that being any better than Sylvan Library. I don't see the point. We already have more than enough mana, we already have a draw engine that is better than Scroll Rack + Tax, we already have a way to sustain Confinement, really what would anyone hope to accomplish by adding Land Tax. I really hate to even waste time talking about it, but hopefully this post will allow us to not waste anymore space on the subject. If you want to test it out MWS the deck up and goldfish it with Tax and even if you trigger it every turn I don't see it being optimal. Not to mention it's a terrible card to draw after turn 1 and you'd likely be better off filling those slots with 4x silver bullet enchantments and stealing games that way.

[Julian23]

I have to agree and will ask again:

What does Land Tax do for Enchantress?!?!

Fix your mana? Not needed, we already cut down on the dual lands because we just don't need a big amount of fixing
Make sure your hit your land drops? Enchantress just needs to hit its first ~3 land drops to get its engine running because of all the auras we run. Additional lands during the first turns are just chaff as you will have enough lands once your engine kicks in. Which leeds me to point 3:
Provide Card Advantage? Again: Enchantress has NO WAY of using that advantage to its benefit. We dont run Scroll Rack, Brainstorm or anything the like.

This only leaves potential protection from land destruction as a possible application for Land Tax. In the face of Devastating Dreams and Armageddon I'd much rather have Sacred Ground.

[slaughtercult]

Ive Been rocking this list for a little bit now and it seams to be doing quite well.


4 Argothian Enchantress
4 Enchantress's Presence
2 Runed Halo
3 Solitary Confinement
1 Oblivion Ring
2 Utopia Sprawl
2 Trace Of Abundance
4 Wild Growth
3 Elephant Grass
1 City Of Solitude
1 In The Eye Of Chaos
1 Enlightened Tutor
4 Sterling Grove
2 Replenish
1 Ground Seal
1 Sigil Of The Empty Throne
1 Words Of War
1 Emrakul, The Aeons Torn

6 Forest
3 Plains
1 Karakas
2 Horizon Canopy
2 Savannah
4 Windswept Heath
2 Serra's Sanctum

Sideboard:
1 Oblivion Ring
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Choke
2 Runed Halo
4 Wheel Of Sun And Moon
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Karmic Justice
1 Sacred Mesa
1 Aura Of Silence

How do you guys feel about In The Eye of Chaos mainboard vs. sideboard? I do have a lot of control based decks in my meta but, for those games in which i am not facing blue, it seems like a dead draw.

For those wondering about some card choices... I play Emrakul because it wins the mirror for me. Trace of Abundance is great for protecting my Serra's Sanctums and the sacred mesa gets boarded in against decks using Sadistic Sacrament (which is pretty much an auto win if we don't have a win condition in our opening hand).

[Julian23]

Aura of Silence also wins the Mirrormatch while having important uses outside of it. In most matchups Emrakul will be sooo win-more because he won't accomplish anything regarding your general game plan. Oh, and get rid of Trace of Abundance and consider using Sacred Ground in case you're really that worried about LD.

[wcm8]

Drop the Trace of Abundance for more Utopia Sprawls. I understand the reasoning, but Sanctum isn't sooooo key to your gameplan that you'd devote two slots towards protecting it. As Julian said, run Sacred Ground if you're seeing tons of Wastelands, Sinkholes, Armageddon, etc. Having a turn one play is so key towards getting your engine running. Otherwise the list seems nice. Even though I wouldn't run Emrakul or Eye of Chaos, they're reasonable slots. Although if Emrakul is specifically for the mirror, why not have it in the sideboard?

[anonymos]

I'm amused at the Emrakul idea just because it would have to be hard cast. There is a problem though. Oblivion Ring still eats it and it's my favorite card in the mirror. Aura of Silence or Cleansing Meditation are better for the mirror in my opinion.

[Gibbie_X]

I'm amused at the Emrakul idea just because it would have to be hard cast. There is a problem though. Oblivion Ring still eats it and it's my favorite card in the mirror. Aura of Silence or Cleansing Meditation are better for the mirror in my opinion.

o ring doesn't eat it

and using it as a mirror match win is really bad. Use Dovescape, throw a monkey wrench in there shit.

[anonymos]

Oblivion Ring does eat it. Colored spells is what it has protection from. It is a triggered ability, not the spell itself that targets the Emrakul.

Dovescape would also throw a monkey wrench in your plan the same way.