[Deck] Spiderman (Scepter Chant + Salvagers Combo)

[Ghost Councilor]

It's a bad name, I know, but the deck works really well. It started out as a scepter/chant deck, and I added the Salvager/Diamond combo as a win condition. WIth a perfect draw it goes off turn 1, and it often wins turn 2 or 3. It can play a long control game by putting Orim's Chant or Abeyance on the scepter, then waiting to draw into the combo. It's also won through aggro a couple of times, playing successive Chants to slow down a goblin deck's plays and overruning with Dark Confidants.

This is the latest build I've been playing.

4x Auriok Salvagers
4x Orzhov Guildmage
4x Dark Confidant
3x Lion's Eye Diamond
2x Ghostly Prison
3x Isochron Scepter
4x Enlightened Tutor
2x Infernal Tutor
4x Orim's Chant
4x Abeyance
4x Dark Ritual
1x Pyrite Spellbomb
1x Pithing Needle
2x Bloodstained Mire
2x Polluted Delta
4x Godless Shrine
1x Ancient Den
1x Vault of Whispers
6x Plains
4x Swamp

Sideboard:
1x Ghostly Prison
1x Isochron Scepter
1x Pithing Needle
4x Hideous Laughter
4x Disenchant
4x Leyline of the Void

Locally, aggro is the name of the game. The only tier one deck that gets played is Goblins, which is why I use Hideous Laughter over other board control. It takes out all the relevant Goblins, leaves my Salvagers standing, and it goes at instant speed, which I find to be the most important plus for it.

I'm always looking to update the deck, and would love to hear anyone's thoughts on the build.

BTW the name is based on the fact that, in many cases, both Orim's Chant and Abeyance act as Time Walks...hence eight walks...eight legs...it's bad, like I said...

[vigilante]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say this looks pretty good. It does seem a bit light on the MD answers to aggro (it's possible, though unlikely, that Ghostly Prison and Scepter/Chant could be disrupted), but that's made up for by the fact that you've got 8 anti-combo/control cards MD (Chants and Abeyances).

Orzhov Guildmage seems a bit out of place though...any particular reason you're using it instead of 4 Chromatic Stars (to dig for Pyrite Spellbomb once you've got Salvagers/LED online)? Even pre-combo, the card draw would complement Dark Confidant nicely.

Also, I assume the Godless Shrines are Scrublands.

[Radley]

I think his kill card is orzhov guildmage. But I think it can be replaced with something better.

[Cait_Sith]

I think his kill card is orzhov guildmage. But I think it can be replaced with something better.

His kill card is recurring Pyrite Spellbomb. So I have no clue why guildmage is there. Anti-Worship tech?

[vigilante]

Guildmage does get around Worship, Solitary Confinement, Ivory Mask, True Believer etc etc. Golden Grahams usually has one in the sideboard to Living Wish for for this very reason.

Speaking of Golden Grahams, would it be worth testing Duress + Cabal Therapy in place of Orim's Chant + Abeyance in this deck? Admittedly, that's opening the deck up for evolution straight back towards being GG, which I'm sure Ghost Councilor would want to avoid (otherwise he'd just play GG). How would people feel about the loss of the Scepter/Chant combo from the deck? I imagine that it would free up an additional 3 spaces for anti-aggro options (as there would be no need for 3 Isochron Scepter if using Duress/Therapy). Perhaps 2 more Ghostly Prisons could be added, and maybe a Moat, The Abyss, Engineered Plague or something.

[laststepdown]

Guildmage is a alt-win mana sink for LED/Salvagers, and can swing/block/whatever. He's actually proven to be worth a shit. Plus, he stated Goblins is played alot where he is, so I say two thumbs up.


Remember that whole article by Forsythe(I think...) that explained what combos were stupid with what cards from Ravnica block? Well, I forgot what else was in the article, but it explained Orzhov Guildmage could give you a million life and bring your opponent to 0 life immediately if you had infinite black and white mana.

Who does that, ever?

Legacy players, that's who.

[vigilante]

If all but one of the Guildmages were replaced with Chromatic Stars/Chromatic Spheres/spellbombs, wouldn't it be possible to get Salvagers/LED happening, then draw cards until you find the lone Guildmage, and win? I suppose that having dual win conditions (Pyrite Spellbomb and Guildmage) means you opponent can't just win by Needling/Meddling Mage-ing your kill card (but realistically, what sort of opponent would name anything other than Salvagers against this deck?)

[Radley]

If all but one of the Guildmages were replaced with Chromatic Stars/Chromatic Spheres/spellbombs, wouldn't it be possible to get Salvagers/LED happening, then draw cards until you find the lone Guildmage, and win? I suppose that having dual win conditions (Pyrite Spellbomb and Guildmage) means you opponent can't just win by Needling/Meddling Mage-ing your kill card (but realistically, what sort of opponent would name anything other than Salvagers against this deck?)

Or you can go infinite red mana and infinite white mana then use pyrite spellbomb to deal 2 damage then get it back with auriok salvagers then deal 2 dmg etc.. until your opponent is dead.

[Cait_Sith]

Then you discover I have Argothian Enchantress and Worship in play and are forced to concede. You need at least 1 guildmage to avoid such problems.

[Radley]

As he can make any mana he wants, why not add burning wish? you can wish for either tendrils of agony, drain life or demonfire.

[noobslayer]

@Vigilante. Mage on LED and Needle on the win-con is usually game over, unless you draw into pyrite spellbomb or aether spellbomb if you run it. I know when playing against this deck LED is the first thing to get named with mage. Not only does it stop the combo once established, it can prevent it from getting started entirely (especially against Infernal Tutor builds with their LED-Hellbent tricks).

@Radley. More colors. <groan>. I think it's fine as is. Living Wish would serve better utility, and still be mostly inside friendly colors.

[Cavius The Great]

Living Wish + Maga, Traitor to Mortals. That's my tech for my Enchantress Bloom deck and I think the same can be applied here. You just sac the LED in response to the Wish then produce infinite mana before you search for the Maga. I think it might work. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[C.P.]

Living Wish + Maga, Traitor to Mortals. That's my tech for my Enchantress Bloom deck and I think the same can be applied here. You just sac the LED in response to the Wish then produce infinite mana before you search for the Maga. I think it might work. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Except it requires commitment to 3rd color and make the mana base weak. I think the deck is fine as it is, except that I want to see something like Plunge into Darkness or other CQ engine. Or Gave Pact which is very good when you have a deck built for it.

[Nightmare]

As an aside, Pithing Needle should always name Auriok Salvagers vs. any Bomberman variant.

[outsideangel]

Wow, I really like this list. The two decks seperate aren't particularly strong, but together I think they shore up eachothers' weaknesses nicely. That said, I would probably make a couple of fine adjustments.


-2 Orzhov Guildmage
+2 Chromatic Star
Basically, you can use the Star to dig through for win conditions as necessary, and also, importantly, you can burn through one early to see more of your deck, since it doesn't need to be in play. You want 2 Guildmages so you have a backup, and, if bad crap happens and you can't win via Salvagers, you have an alternate win condition once you get infinite turns via Sceptre/Chant lock.


-4 Godless Shrine
-2 Swamp
+4 Scrublands
+1 Polluted Delta
+1 Bloodstained Mire
Just smoothing out the manabase here, really. More fetches give you more access to the dual lands you want, when you want them.


-2 Infernal Tutor
+1 Isochron Sceptre
+1 Seal of Cleansing/Aura of Silence
Basically, you lose a little tutor power (Infernal is a bit unreliable anyway) for an additionaly Sceptre, which will allow you to toss one out early in the face of counters or removal and not worry so much about it, and for a MD answer to Pithing Needle, Chalice, Humility, and Pyrostatic Pillar that you can find via Enlightened Tutor. Seal of Cleansing is cheaper, but Aura of Silence has some measure of use against combo decks that like to use cheap mana artifacts, and randomly against Enchantress players.


-1 sideboard Isochron Sceptre
+1 sideboard Ghostly Prison
-4 sideboard Leyline of the Void
+4 sideboard Duress
Since the last Sceptre moved to the MD, the last Ghostly Prison can go in the board, giving you a little extra edge vs. Aggro. Also, Leyline of the Void is a really narrow card that's only ever good on turn 0 vs. a few specific decks, so I suggest replacing it with the broader Duress to help against combo a bit more.


Also, last but not least, welcome to the Source.

[Ghost Councilor]

First of all, thanks very much for everyone's advice. A few my choices arre based greatly on personal preferrence, and may have been sub-optimal for that reason. I used to run Cabal Therapy and Duress, but since I play against a lot of aggro, they were often dead cards game 1, and boarded out game two. Besides, the deck was built around Orim's Chant and Abeyance, and I love those to death. Abeyance itself has randomly won me several games (Abeyance + Scepter vs 43 land.dec was great). Orzhov guildmage as a 4 - of is new. The previous build ran just the one, but once again in the face of a lot of aggro, I found myself craving early chump-blockers, plus as mentioned he dodges targetability, and smashes face. I've seen a few random games where I kept drawing Chants and was able to go beatdown, and a few more beaters who double as infinite mana sinks seems pretty good...though I'll know for sure tomorrow as there is a local tournament I'll be playing at. Also, I have a foil playset and love the art, and really, really wanted to see them out on the table where they really want to be.

Infernal Tutor seems really weak, but it has won me games several times. He's the cheapest tutor I can use to get Salvagers and/or guildmages. I like the 1x Seal of Cleansing idea, and will probably put that in. It would free up the 4x Disenchant slots in my sideboard, which are pretty much automatically boarded in game 2 in anticipation of my opponent's answers. As for the Leylines, I can usually anticipate facing at least 1 Threshold deck and at least 1 reanimator, and occasionally even Ichorid, out of a pool of about 10 players or so, so the Leylines are very good against them, and I'm pretty good about mulliganing into one. Also, these tend to be bad matchups, so the leyline has been very valuable. The only deck I really have conistent trouble with (ie. even with decent draws I still get raped like bubba's cellmate) is goblins, bloody goblins. I could deal with just the RIshadan Ports, or just the speed, but the fact that they can consistently get the speed WITH the Ports online to slow down my ability to go off (I generally need 1 black and 1 white source) is awful, even with good draws. I pretty much need the god hand (2 LEDs, 1 Infernal Tutor, 2 Dark Rituals, 1 Pyrite Spellbomb, 1 land) or I get stampeded. That's one of the reasons for upping the body count in the deck. I elected for a longer game that will win with the combo eventually, and can occasionally just explode.

And yeah, if I had them, the Godless Shrines would be Scrublands, but I'm waiting until I can get beta or alpha scrubs, since I hate having one or two white borders sullying my deck.

Oh yes, and thanks for the welcome. Legacy is fast becoming my favourite format. It's got the huge cardpool of VIntage, but without the really degenerate cards, it's a good palce to experiment and try interesting new ideas. I've already been reading a lot on here, and will probably post more once I'm more familiar witht he format and can contribute more fully.