[Deck] Uwr Counterbalance

[Iranon]

Ever since I saw that card, I have wanted to break Counterbalance. My first attempts were permanent-light and relied on board swepers, on the presumption that an active Counterbalance would be excellent at keeping future threats off the table.
Cagey opponents played around that too easily though, hence that plan was dropped in favour of an artifact/enchantment toolbox.




Counters

4 Counterspell
4 Force of Wil


Library Manipulation

4 Brainstorm
4 Magma Jet
4 Enlightened Tutor


Cheese

3 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Counterbalance


Toolbox

2 Engineered Explosives
1 Porphyry Nodes
1 Pithing Needle
1 Scroll Rack
1 Isochron Scepter
1 Seal of Cleansing
1 Vedalken Shackles
1 Moat
1 Humility


Finishers

2 Rakavolver


Mana

4 Tundra
4 Volcanic Island
4 Mishra's Factory
3 Flooded Strand
3 Polluted Delta
2 Academy Ruins
1 Island
1 Plains



Sideboard

4 Blue Elemental Blast
4 Pyroclasm
2 Pithing Needle
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Shattering Spree
1 Propaganda



Card Explanations

Counterbalance + a ton of library manipulation is the centrepiece of the deck.




Force of Will, Counterspell: Sometimes something slips through the counterbalance wall, these are your ensurance. The regular counterspells are probably the worst cards in the deck, but the blue count is already on the low side for supporting Force of Will.



Magma Jet is both adequate pinpoint removal and library manipulation that allows some control over what lies on top of your library. It is wonderful on a stick, far better than Fire//Ice in this deck.

Enlightened Tutor enables the toolbox aspect of the deck, and serves as a counterspell for anything with a Converted Mana Cost of 4 or less under Counterbalance.

Brainstorm works in a similar fashion - between the top 3 cards of your library and your hand, I usually have access to a card of the appropriate mana cost.



Counterbalance, Sensei's Divining Top: Prevent your opponent from ever casting anything meaningful again, especially if they have a low curve.



Engineered Explosives: A tutorable semi-sweeper. Makes many decks cry when recurred with Academy. Gets rid of all tokens and morphs for a mere 2 mana. Enables Enlightened Tutor to counter 0-cost cards without running something iffy like Seat of the Synod.

Pithing Needle: Randomness control. Wether Siege-Gang Commander, Survival or Jitte, it is an acceptable answer to most permanents already in play that you struggle dealing with otherwise.

Porphyry Nodes: Often wonderful x-for-1 advantage. Sometimes it merely keeps an opponent from applying pressure for a round or two, which is fair enough. Currently considered for cutting.

Scroll Rack: A supplement for Sensei's Divining Top. Included to get around Pithing Needle, and because getting both of them online makes an opponent curse in a charming and colourful manner. By itself, this does less than Top.

Isochron Scepter: Nothing I would like to rely on, but it really helps establishing a dominant position and, with an imprinted magma jet, serves as a win condition unaffected by Moat and Humility.

Seal of Cleansing: This hasn't served a major function in any game I have played so far that Needle wouldn't have handled better. On the other hand, Winter Orb and Crucible of Worlds scare me. Enough to run an answer maindeck.

Vedalken Shackles: So far, the weakest and least-used anti-creature device in my arsenal; often a win-more because of its cost. Often tutored up merely because it is a 3-mana artifact. Under review.

Moat: A fair number of decks can't win as long as this remains on the table. By the time this comes online, it's usually a breeze to defend it.

Humility: The other blanket answer to anything on legs. Together they take creatures out of the picture completely.



Rakavolver: From an early stage on, it was clear that I wanted a Spirit Linked finisher, because this deck tends to drop low on life against any deck that wins by damage.
The low CMC is a blessing with Counterbalance, a curse with Engineered Explosives. What made me pick this over the obvious contender, Exalted Angel, was the fact that it is still a 5/5 under Humility.


Mishra's Factory: Used more for defense than as a win condition; by the time manland beats become practical the game is either won or lost (if it lasts that long, usually won).

Academy Ruins: Gets me back crucial artifacts (shame about the enchantments)... for counterbalance, to destroy something every turn with Engineered Explosives or simply to win by running my opponent out of cards (under Humility + Moat).



Experience with it so far

I lack a real-life test partner, hence the deck was mostly played online. While the amount of verbal abuse was encouraging, and I won a very fair share of the games, the list has a lot of problems.

The mana base is fragile. Goblins have speed, mana denial, measures of cheating creatures into play and varied casting costs on their side. Not good, regardless of what I throw at them post-board. Stax is worse.

On the positive side, the power and flexibility of the engine astonished me. In the mid to late game, I was able to outcontrol just about any other control deck... even if they were busy running themselves out of cards drawing 3 times as much as I did.
Combo decks have to fight through a significant amount of permission, and creature decks can expect to run into a brick wall in short order.



As it stands, it is probably not a good deck, but I think it has potential. Would it profit from the inclusion of powerful but non-synergistic cards like Swords to Plowshares? Is it worth bending over backwards to be able to abuse Counterbalance? Some feedback would be very welcome.



Edit:

In accordance with some of the excellent feedback, my current list is:

-1 Scroll Rack
-1 Mishra's Factory
-1 Vedalken Shackles

+1 Crucible of Worlds
+1 Wasteland
+1 Propaganda (am testing Fire//Ice in that slot)

[Maverick676]

This list looks very solid. However I think swords is a mandatory inclusion. While it lacks synergy with the rest of the deck it is one white to answer to just about every creature in the format. Also you might consider running less enchantments/artifacts and trying to abuse scepter more as well. You could use both mystical and enlightened tutors. For a sorcery/instant toolbox you could run pyrclasm, wrath ect. To fit these you could cut the more narrow enchantment targets i.e. porphory nodes and scroll rack, also you probably only need to have one 4CC creature hate enchantment and I think humility is better than moat in this case (especially if you go a more scepter control route with fire/ice).

Also on a more random note: If you do nothing else to change the list, you should replace shackles main with the propoganda in the sideboard.

[Benie Bederios]

Hello,

I was thinking about an Counterbalance list too, but your's looks more solid than mine. The only weakness I see is the low amount of 3 CC spells, but this is very hard to overcome( I have the same problem, I played Crucible / Goblin Trenches.)

The Nodes looks likes the weakest card in the deck. It is very slow and rarely slows Goblins or Faeris Stompy down( at least in my testing.) Maybe you could add Arcane Laboratory or Propagande( or the white cards.)

I also agree that you have to play Swords to Plowshare. An answer to Lackey on the draw is always nice.

Your win condition is Strange, but makes sense I gues. I played Exalted Angel and no Humility, but I will test Rakavolver, because it's better with Humility.

BB

[Nihil Credo]

I think a Crucible of World would solve a lot of your mana base problems. The most likely candidate for cutting is Scroll Rack (it's a bit win-more, and if Top gets Needled you can still go grab Explosives). You might consider cutting 1 Academy Ruins after that, to avoid Legendary issues; a Petrified Field could still provide a backup.

To handle Goblins, I support the switching of Shackles and Propaganda (because of Humility) as well as the inclusion of Swords, though probably not as a 4-of. You could cut one Magma Jet, Porphyry Nodes and one Counterspell (the blue count is compensated by maindeck Propaganda).

Random idea: Static Orb should be good against both Goblins and control, since your deck doesn't seem very mana-intensive (although without Fire/Ice to tap the Orb at EOT, it seems risky).

[Aggro_zombies]

Bah! Someone has beaten me to the punch with UWR Counterbalance. The deck I have been working with is different than yours to a significant extent, but I'll post it just for reference:

// Lands
3 [R] Tundra
1 [P3] Mountain (1)
3 [CHK] Island (1)
1 [ON] Bloodstained Mire
1 [ON] Windswept Heath
2 [ON] Polluted Delta
4 [ON] Flooded Strand
3 [U] Volcanic Island
2 [TSP] Academy Ruins
3 [ST] Plains (3)

// Creatures
3 [CS] Jotun Grunt
4 [TSP] Serra Avenger
3 [FD] Trinket Mage
4 [SC] Silver Knight

// Spells
4 [MM] Brainstorm
2 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
3 [CS] Counterbalance
4 [AL] Force of Will
1 [FD] Engineered Explosives
4 [U] Lightning Bolt
4 [FD] Magma Jet
1 [MR] Pyrite Spellbomb

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [CS] Jotun Grunt
SB: 2 [SOK] Pithing Needle
SB: 4 [PS] Meddling Mage
SB: 4 [IA] Pyroclasm
SB: 4 [IA] Swords to Plowshares

I'm currently testing -4 Magma Jet, +4 Fire//Ice, since I was feeling the need for more blue cards to pitch to FoW. You'll note that this is a more aggro-control version of the deck, but it is extremely powerful. It doesn't even need Counterbalance down to win in some matchups. Only Goblins is bad for you, with game one almost unwinable. I'm adjusting the sideboard to deal with this, but so far post-board matches (taking out Counterbalance and Top for more Burnination and possibly Galina's Knight in the near future) seem extremely favorable for you.

EDIT: I realized the manabase on this list is out of date with what I'm running currently. That has been corrected.

[Radley]

Bah! Someone has beaten me to the punch with UWR Counterbalance. The deck I have been working with is different than yours to a significant extent, but I'll post it just for reference:

// Lands
3 [R] Tundra
1 [P3] Mountain (1)
3 [CHK] Island (1)
2 [ON] Bloodstained Mire
2 [ON] Windswept Heath
4 [ON] Flooded Strand
3 [U] Volcanic Island
2 [TSP] Academy Ruins
3 [ST] Plains (3)

// Creatures
3 [CS] Jotun Grunt
4 [TSP] Serra Avenger
3 [FD] Trinket Mage
4 [SC] Silver Knight

// Spells
4 [MM] Brainstorm
2 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
3 [CS] Counterbalance
4 [AL] Force of Will
1 [FD] Engineered Explosives
4 [U] Lightning Bolt
4 [FD] Magma Jet
1 [MR] Pyrite Spellbomb

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [CS] Jotun Grunt
SB: 2 [SOK] Pithing Needle
SB: 4 [PS] Meddling Mage
SB: 4 [IA] Pyroclasm
SB: 4 [IA] Swords to Plowshares

I'm currently testing -4 Magma Jet, +4 Fire//Ice, since I was feeling the need for more blue cards to pitch to FoW. You'll note that this is a more aggro-control version of the deck, but it is extremely powerful. It doesn't even need Counterbalance down to win in some matchups. Only Goblins is bad for you, with game one almost unwinable. I'm adjusting the sideboard to deal with this, but so far post-board matches (taking out Counterbalance and Top for more Burnination and possibly Galina's Knight in the near future) seem extremely favorable for you.

I like lightning angel more than serra avenger because lightning can be pitched to FOW and doesn't die from 1 lightning bolt. Why not try trinket angels instead?Oh I noticed that your decklist is almost the same as trinket angel deck but with some changes ^_^

[Aggro_zombies]

I like lightning angel more than serra avenger because lightning can be pitched to FOW and doesn't die from 1 lightning bolt. Why not try trinket angels instead?Oh I noticed that your decklist is almost the same as trinket angel deck but with some changes ^_^
Um...

1) Serra Avenger >>>>>>>>>>> Lightning Angel because Avenger can block Piledriver, doesn't require me to have all three colors in play, and usually comes down about a turn earlier than LA because it's easier for me to hit WW than WUR, which means in turn that there is no significant advantage to running LA. Also, Avenger only costs two whereas LA costs four, which means that I'll have mana open to use SDT or play another spell.

2) No.

EDIT: Oh yeah, one more thing. How is pitching a win condition (Lightning Angel) better than pitching a random burn spell (Fire//Ice) to Force of Will? You're going to have to explain the logic to me there, since I'm not getting it myself.

[Iranon]

Well, I am somewhat surprised to not see this shot down in flames... many thanks for the constructive feedback.



A split toolbox hasn't worked out well for me, mostly because tutors couldn't be counted on to abuse Counterbalance and actually fetch something useful at the same time any more.

Symetrical effects like Static Orb are not my cup of tea in this deck. While the curve is fairly low, the deck can most certainly make good use of excess mana.

Porphyry Nodes fulfils a semi-important role in the deck as a cheap tutorable anticreature measure. Seal of Fire is a more immediate and accurate contender, but the effects are nowhere near as far-reaching and the necessity for both white and red mana sort of defeats the point of being cheap and tutorable.
Also, having an opponent bolt their own creature to get rid of the thing is always fun (in response, activate Factory). While it is slightly on the slow side, I would definitely miss it.

I will give maindecked Propaganda a go, in the slot of Shackles as suggested. While it lacks the whole 'Creatures? What Creatures?' appeal of Humility + Moat, it is a way to buy time that isn't played around/overwhelmed as easily as Nodes.


Swords to Plowshares: Strongly considered, but for different reasons. The appropriate answer for a Goblin Lackey isn't StP, it's Pyroclasm. However, Pyroclasm doesn't help against a first-turn Sea Drake/Serendib Efreet, which the deck is ill-equipped to handle. A first-turn facedown Angel can be dealt with, but remains a concern.
In all of these situations, Porphyry Nodes is usually an excellent answer from my experience, and on the play I effectively run 5 copies. Goblins especially can try to continue their assault right through it, whether they should is an entirely different matter.
Nevertheless, Swords alleviates many concerns and a 3/3 split with Magma Jet looks attractive.

Crucible of Worlds: I had rejected the card since an attempt to get full use out of it would gobble up too many slots, but I might have run into what I think of as the 'Welder Trap': Just because another deck gets twice the mileage out of a given card isn't a reason to dismiss it.
As a tutorable singleton it makes resource denial strategies a lot more bearable if I get to the point where I can cast it, it further solidifies my late game, is a 3-mana artifact that is always going to be somewhat useful and might open up new options for snatching random wins with a single Wasteland. I will definitely give this a second shot.

[Phantom]

Good start.

Four quick things since Counterbalance isn't exactly my cup of tea:

1) Consider Ghostly Prison instead of Propaganda. Seems counterintuitive since you run FOW and blue as your main color, but Goblins is almost always packing 4 REBs, and that's the matchup where that card is going to be strongest.

2) There has to be a better board card than Shattering Spree. I mean, you don't even run that much red (you'll be lucky to get, what, 2-3 red in a game?). How is this better than the extra copies of the amazing and tutorable Seal of Cleansing?

3) Scroll Rack seems the very definition of a "win more". You say it's a way to get around needle, but god knows Seal and EExplosives do the same thing, are just as tutorable, and are much better cards. Maybe it locks down the game in a way I can't fathom, but I figured the card advantage that Top and Counterbalance provide should win you almost all of the games where Scroll Rack would make a difference.

4) What about Fledgling Dragon as a win condition? I think it's still a pumpable 4/4 under Humility (not flying though) It's not spirit linked, but it might help you win at such a pace that you don't need the spirit link. Hmmm. Maybe not. Are there any good tutorable win conditions maybe? I'm in over my head on this one, lol.

[Radley]

http://www.germagic.de/dc/deck.php?id=7666

3/3s dies from lightning bolt or from gempalm incinerator in turn 3, 3/4s however is more solid. You have silver knights and in maindeck.

@ Pitching it to FoW, if you got no other blue cards in hand, what are you going to do? You got 10 blue cards not including your FoW ^_^ Well hooray for that.:laugh:

[Aggro_zombies]

http://www.germagic.de/dc/deck.php?id=7666

3/3s dies from lightning bolt or from gempalm incinerator in turn 3, 3/4s however is more solid. You have silver knights and in maindeck.

@ Pitching it to FoW, if you got no other blue cards in hand, what are you going to do? You got 10 blue cards not including your FoW ^_^ Well hooray for that.:laugh:
And what deck plays Lightning Bolt, aside from burn? And if I have a Counterbalance and/or Sensei's Divining Top in play, why do I care if my opponent is trying to Bolt my Angel? When I'm already running Silver Knights and Jotun Grunts in addition to the Angels, why do I have to add a card which will require me to bend over backwards to play it when I can just play a different card that's in the same color as most of my other creatures?

And if it came down to having a random burn spell in my hand versus a craptastic creature, I think 9 out of 10 dentists would recommend pitching the burn spell. The last one recommends the craptastic creature because it's not like I'll have the mana open to play it and still use SDT before hell freezes over anyway, so I might as well put it to some sort of constructive use.

So, to summarize it for you, my dear radley^__^, Serra Avenger is much, much better in this deck than Lightning Angel. I've tested them. I know. It is far easier for this deck to hit WW than WUR, because I configured the mana base that way. Lightning Angel has no place in this build.

And one more thing: I almost always see more than one Serra Avenger in a game thanks to a large number of shuffle effects, Top, and Brainstorm. Losing one isn't such a big deal when you've got three more queued up behind the one you lost.

[Cait_Sith]

1) Serra Avenger >>>>>>>>>>> Lightning Angel because Avenger can block Piledriver, doesn't require me to have all three colors in play, and usually comes down about a turn earlier than LA because it's easier for me to hit WW than WUR, which means in turn that there is no significant advantage to running LA. Also, Avenger only costs two whereas LA costs four, which means that I'll have mana open to use SDT or play another spell.

Some quick questions on this: How can Avenger block Piledriver but Angel not? In fact Lightning Angel is better than Avenger at blocking Piledriver.

You run E.E., but using them means that there is a chance of hitting the Avenger with it if you need to target the 2 slot, where Angel is always safe out of reach. Also, Lightning Angel is a faster clock:

Avenger:

1 - 0
2 - 0
3 - 0
4 - 0
5 - 3
11 - 21

Lightning Angel kills one turn faster. Also, the majority of shuffle effects you were boasting about makes it easy to get UWR by turn 4.

[Aggro_zombies]

Some quick questions on this: How can Avenger block Piledriver but Angel not? In fact Lightning Angel is better than Avenger at blocking Piledriver.
Lightning Angel is blue.

[Cait_Sith]

Lightning Angel is blue.

That would be important wouldn't it? I always forget Piledriver is Pro. Blue.

[Hanni]

Just a couple of things here in regards to aggro/zombies build:

I'm not quite sure if Trinket Mage is any good in here. 3cc for a 2/2 is pretty bad and it doesn't seem like there are any "bombs" to grab with it. 1 maindeck burn spell (Pyrite) and 1 maindeck Explosives seem to be about it, with 2 Ruins for potential recural seems highly situational. If you could mold the deck a little more like Faerie Stompy and abuse Chalice, I'd advocate Trinket Mage. If you could abuse something else with Trinket Mage, I'd also advocate the use of it. In here, I don't really see it doing much. Additionally, if you are deadset on it... at least run an Ancient Den and a Seat of Synod for fetch purposes... or maybe even a lone 1-of on Vial.

The lack of StP is really an eyesore. Currently, you are splashing red for Lightning Bolt and Magma Jet with sideboard Pyroclasm. The deck is using Counterbalance and doesn't appear to be the sort of deck that wants to play the agressor. Why run Lightning Bolt over StP? I think StP is going to help out significantly more than Lightning Bolt.

[Volt]

Just eyeballing AZ's list, I like it. I have the same reservations about Lightning Bolt over StP, though.

Trinket Mage's main function in the deck is to get SDT, I imagine. Seems like you ought to be able to fit a Pithing Needle somewhere in the maindeck, too.

[Aggro_zombies]

Just a couple of things here in regards to aggro/zombies build:

I'm not quite sure if Trinket Mage is any good in here. 3cc for a 2/2 is pretty bad and it doesn't seem like there are any "bombs" to grab with it. 1 maindeck burn spell (Pyrite) and 1 maindeck Explosives seem to be about it, with 2 Ruins for potential recural seems highly situational. If you could mold the deck a little more like Faerie Stompy and abuse Chalice, I'd advocate Trinket Mage. If you could abuse something else with Trinket Mage, I'd also advocate the use of it. In here, I don't really see it doing much. Additionally, if you are deadset on it... at least run an Ancient Den and a Seat of Synod for fetch purposes... or maybe even a lone 1-of on Vial.
Actually, I've been thinking of doing just that. There have been plenty of times when I've wanted to hit my second white source but haven't drawn it or a fetchland. Adding Ancient Den (and possibly Great Furnace) would turn Trinket Mages into virtual fetchlands, albeit ones that can't nab basics. And the decision to run Bolt over StP is purely a metagame call - the only deck in my meta where StP would be better than Bolt is Slivers, and I usually can't target their guys anyway.

On the whole, however, I've been very pleased with Trinket Mage. It's too bad Jitte costs 2...

[Radley]

So, to summarize it for you, my dear radley^__^, Serra Avenger is much, much better in this deck than Lightning Angel. I've tested them. I know. It is far easier for this deck to hit WW than WUR, because I configured the mana base that way. Lightning Angel has no place in this build.

You use FoW with only 10 other blue cards in deck. You really are a great deck builder, I bow down to you... NOT!

[Daze]

http://www.germagic.de/dc/deck.php?id=7666
Here someone actually won a tournament with roughly the same deck...
Although I'm really not sure about the Chrome Moxens, the list is quite solid, at least after adding the 4th Force >.<. As for Serra Avenger vs. Lighnting Angel Avenger would be better, but Lightning has a converted mana cost of 4, which we could need for Counterbalance.