[Deck] No Pain No Gain, A breath of fresh air

[blackguard90]

Hello, I'm a new user at mtgthesource but I understand the Legacy format pretty well. One of my friends have been playing a very flavorful rogue deck, so i decided to post it here and see what you guys/girls think.

No Pain No Gain VERSION 2:

Creatures:
4x Loxodon Peacekeeper
4x Flesh Reaver
4x Avatar of Hope
3x Opal Avenger (Still the best card for this slot, I'm not too happy about it, but it seems like nothing else beats it)

Protection:
4x Duress
4x Swords to Plowshares
4x Shining Shoal

Lock:
4x Worship (Awsome suggestion by From Cairo, thanks!)

Equipment:
3x O-Naginata
4x Lightning Greaves

Land:
4x Ancient Tomb
4x City of Brass
4x Tarnished Citadel
4x Windswept Heath
4x Scrubland
2x Caves of Koilos

Sideboard:
4x Chalice of the Void
4x Engineered Plague
3x Jotun Grunt
2x Disenchant
2x Darkblast

The deck: This deck's main purpose is to win fast, like a suicide deck, at the price of your own life. Your life is itself a valuable resource that you have to master. The deck is extremely hard to play at times because you can't decide easily when to take damage from lands and when to not. There are many things I still don't like about the deck and card choices will be explained later.

Things that still needs to be developed:
1) There are 7 equipments but only 15 creatures, of which 7 are conditional. Also, the low creature count makes my life a little bit harder.
2) Sometimes a single life decides the game. I have lost games where I am in a very dominant position with 1 life left and then the goblin player rips a mogg fanatic from the top and beats me. The choices you make is very important for the deck, because sometimes using the "colorless" mana ability rather than the "white or black" mana can save you a game or cost you a game.


Card Choices:

Loxodon Peacekeeper: The MVP of the deck, basically a 4/4 for 2 that has no drawbacks because you'll always be at the same or less life than your opponents. Test it out if you don't believe me.

Flesh Reaver: The second foremost beater, O-Naginata + Flesh Reaver + Shining Shoal = Win

Avatar of Hope: Shoal fodder first, big fat aggro killer second. It is quite easy for this deck to get out avatar of hope for 2 mana. Also, an avatar wearing greaves makes any creature based deck cry.

Opal Avenger: This is one of the most argued slots for the deck. Jotun grunt IMO is better than the avenger, but Jotun dies in 1-3 turns so it doesn't help worship a lot. Also, he becomes shoal fodder early game.

Swords to Plowshares: Yeah yeah, blah blah, synergy with peacekeeper.

Duress: Protection and disruption all packaged into a neat 1 mana card.

Shining Shoal: This is your shield of holyness. It protects you from guys attacking you, double as creature kill, and most importantly allow 3rd turn kills with flesh reaver.

Worship: One of the most awsome suggestions and changes to the deck. (Thanks again From Cairo!) This card provides a very legitimate lockdown against many decks together with lightning greaves. Extra copies can also become a shining shoal for 4. Also, when this is out, you can use all the city of brass/tarnished citadels to your heart's content.

O-Naginata: Many people dispute that this is a pretty sucky card for the deck, but IMO in most cases, it is better than Umezawa's Jitte or SoFI just because it gives my big guys a big sword and trample. At 1 mana and 2 mana to equip, O-Naginata is a very cheap sword that provides me with a better edge. This card prevents my big beef to get chumped, especially flesh reaver, and is equipable to everyone.

Lightning Greaves: Runner-up MVP of the deck. Highly synergistic with about everything. This card provides untargetability, haste and combos with Worship for a lock.

Lands: Yes, they all hurt like a bitch. But thats the point of the deck right? :wink: (I found that scrubland is a great benefactor for the deck in case I don't get a worship. Scrubland gives me mana without pain when I need it.)

Sideboard:
Overall, pretty standard. Jotun Grunt doubles as yard removal and a huge beatstick for racing combo. Chalice is also devastating to combo and Thresh while plague and darkblast beats goblins.

Match-Ups:

Further testing will be supplied, but at the moment I have done well against goblins and UGW threshold.

Don't say things like "Omg this deck sucks, I lose because I hurt my self for like 16 a game." The deck needs a player with great experience playing the deck to optimize it. In this deck, one damage from a painland can be the difference from winning and losing. "Why would you play a deck like that then?" BECAUSE IT'S ORIGINAL AND FUN AND CAN BECOME COMPETITIVE!

I gladly take constructive comments, in fact I need comments to help this deck. Test it out on MWS and see for yourself how fun the deck is. Thank you for reading!

[nitewolf9]

I would cut the o-nag sword of trample thing for chalice of the voids. They shut down most reach (burn spells specifically - which will make you unhappy) and won't interfere much with your deck when set at one, save for stp. You also have double mana producing lands to stick it at one turn one, a very powerful play.

I can't speak to how competitive the deck would be, but it is definitely a neat idea.

[blackguard90]

well, if I play chalice, my removal suit will be cut in half. Swords is an awsome removal spell for the deck because making your opponents gain life is actually good!

As for the competitive part, my friend actually placed 3rd in a 30 people tournament in minneapolis with the deck a while ago. With a whole field of goblin, threshold, and others, he said that he had no problems against most of the top tier decks. He also told me that he got owned by landstill in t-8 pretty bad, which everyone should understand. I also remember that he might have ran duress in the deck. Anyways, I'll check with his deck list and reply here later.

[blackguard90]

Right, also got a rules question regarding swords and reaver.

Does it work like this:

(1)Reaver deals damage (already off the stack)
(2)its triggered ability goes on the stack
(3)you play swords targetting reaver and it goes on the stack at the top, which removes it from play, you gain 4 life and then you lose 4 from (2)?

This is important because you and your opponent is both at 4, and you can win the game by swording you own guy?

[Androstanolone]

That's not how the card works. The life loss trigger does not even go on the stack until the defending player actually takes the damage. So if your opponent is at four life or less:

Flesh reaver attacks
Both players pass priority
Damage on the stack
Both players pass priority
Damage resolves, defender takes 4
Check state-based effects: Defending player at 0, loses.

The life loss trigger does not even go on the stack in this case. You can be at one life and still win with flesh reaver.

[Nydaeli]

I like the idea of the deck a lot. Loxodon Peacekeeper is an awesome card that hasn't really been used effectively before. The same goes for Avatar of Hope. I think this list really needs some work, though.

I don't like the manabase. You really need basics, and at least a few duals and fetchlands.

I would cut Second Chance and Convalescent Care. They are both incredibly situational. Opal Guardian also seems suspect.

I would test Dark Confidant and Deep Analysis. They both hurt you and give you card advantage, both of which are important to the deck. DA is great for pitching to Avatar.

How do you deal with any kind of combo? You probably need some disruption (i.e. discard, or Chalice).

[blackguard90]

my sideboard is full of chalices and duresses for combo. As for convalescet, its important because I need to be able to use my lands without dying. I can cut second chance, cause after some further testing, it really sucks. Dark confidant is a great idea, but opal AVENGER is not situation at all for the deck, its the best beater I can find that works well for the deck. 3 mana for a 3/5 is always good! Thanks for your comments, i'll try dark confidant.

[blackguard90]

the only bad thing about dark confidant is that I might kill my self by revealing an avatar of hope. What does deep analysis do for the deck? Also, in this deck, Painlands are BETTER than duals, but I might consider cutting a few for fetches and SHOCKLANDS, which can help in the process of torturing your self.

[The Rack]

How are Painlands be better than duals? Is it just a budget issue? Just say so if it is.

[Androstanolone]

I would test Dark Confidant and Deep Analysis. They both hurt you and give you card advantage, both of which are important to the deck. DA is great for pitching to Avatar.

For this matter, why not just run phyrexian arena? It provides a steady stream of self-inflicted pain while being neither as suicidal nor as fragile as dark confidant. One per turn is pretty manageable. It also doesn't require the third color, which blackguard is trying to avoid, isn't a one shot deal, and usually has a better card/life ratio than DA.

[from Cairo]

How are Painlands be better than duals? Is it just a budget issue? Just say so if it is.

Loxodon Peacekeeper; I'm not sure that the whole mana base needs to deal damage to you for the deck to work, but a portion of it should.


I would cut Second Chance and Convalescent Care. They are both incredibly situational.

I would tend to agree, they both seem sub par. When fluttering around 5 life I really don't think that Convalescent Care is going to save you, most decks will probably just finish you off one way or another.

I really like the idea, I think you just need to find a way to cirumvent the fact that you are putting yourself in such a compamized position. The first thing that came to my mind when reading through what half these cards did, hahaha, was Phyrexian Processer/Crumbling Sanctuary that Tinker used to pull out circa a long time ago. Where they would sac off most of their life make huge dudes and then drop Crumbling Sanctuary and life totals were no longer relevent and the opponent was staring down an intimidating clock.

This deck has sort of the first half of that theme going anyway making huge threats at the cost of life, just is lacking a way to get around the fact that you're sitting at 3-5 life. Shining Shoal is perfect for this, but something a bit more reliable is probably needed.

Maybe Worship? It's a bit high for your mana curve, but with Lightning Greaves its a psudo-lock.

EDIT: Few More Ideas...


Opal Guardian: I don't like him a lot, but he comes out as a creature almost all the time on turn 3 or 4.

On looking at this guy further I agree, a 3/5 just isn't all that impressive for 3. It's ok, but the fact that its not even guarenteed to be a 3/5 seems like its probably just not worth it. I would say just replace them with Phyrexian Warbeasts, although they are not white, they are guarenteed 3/4s for 3 mana which is really going to be as good most of the time.

Here is an idea of a sample direction you could take the deck if you were going to work Worship in and drop the Second Chance and Convalescent Care...

4 Loxodon Peacekeeper
4 Flesh Reaver
4 Avatar of Hope
3 Phyrexian Warbeast

4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Shining Shoal
4 Worship
4 Duress
2 Funeral Charm

4 Lightning Greaves
2 O-Naginata

4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Brass
4 Rishadan Port
4 Windswept Heath
3 Scrubland
2 Caves of Koilos


The reasoning behind the changes...

1) Opal Avenger becomes Phyrexian Warbeast... Still not blown away by this slot, but its an unconditional beater, which could come in handy against Combo or something as a turn 2 play that can swing turn 3, where as if no pressure is being applied to you it may take 4-5 turns to get to 10 life and start swinging with Avenger.

2) Convalescent Care becomes Worship... Effectively the same concept keep you alive while you are at low life. Worship combos with Lightning greaves, and doesn't run the risks of leaving you at 5 health unprotected. Extra Worships can easily be pitched to Shoal if there is no danger of the one in play being removed.

3) Second Chance becomes Duress... The idea of Second Chance is nice, but it seems like a win-more card, and it means adding another splash to the deck, really doesn't seem to justify itself to me anyway. Since keeping Worship in play will keep you alive I would say adding a bit of discard to support this, strip counters and disenchants is a strong strategy.

4) 2x O-Naginata become 2x Funeral Charm... Mostly for some added versitility and the fact that 8 equipment seemed too high for the creature count. Funeral Charm gets Goblin Lacky dead, which is important, and isn't completely dead vs combo which is nice. It also can be used for combat tricks of either pumping up your guy or reducing an opponents guy's toughness, just a very versitile card.

5) Manabase... Since this build would be down to 2 colors and nothing requires WW or BB, the color demands are a lot more relaxed. I feel like Rishadan Port or Wasteland if one prefered could be a good addition to the mana base as the deck would still be able to run 13 w/b sources. Also I think running some Duals along side City of Brass and Ancient Tomb would be wise as most of the deck has color requirements it will come up at times that casting things without taking all that damage would be preferable.

For a Sideboard, I would probably go with something along the lines of...

4 Chalice of the Void
3 Engineered Plague
3 Glowrider
3 Pithing Needle
2 Disenchant

Versus Combo and NQG: Chalices and Glowriders can come in for a combinations of Shoals/Swords to Plowshares/Worship/Funeral Charms.

Versus Goblins: Engineered Plauge and Pithing Needle can come in for Duress and maybe a Warbeast and a LGreaves.

Glowrider, Pithing Needle, and Disenchant are good against other random things too.

Anyway just a few more thoughts...

[blackguard90]

How are Painlands be better than duals? Is it just a budget issue? Just say so if it is.

Actually, I have 10+ duals and a playset of mire, delta and windswept also, I have friends who can lend me duals if I need them, but anyways, to MAXIMIZE the deck, meaning loxodon peacekeepers, avatar of hope and others, you need to be at a very low life all the time. And wasteland kills duals too, so why bother? Duals are great in any other deck, thats true, but painlands supply the same mana and helps you achieve your goal of falling to low life. Trust me, you don't want to give your opponent your own 7/4 trample anytime of the game.

[blackguard90]

I would tend to agree, they both seem sub par. When fluttering around 5 life I really don't think that Convalescent Care is going to save you, most decks will probably just finish you off one way or another.

I really like the idea, I think you just need to find a way to cirumvent the fact that you are putting yourself in such a compamized position. The first thing that came to my mind when reading through what half these cards did, hahaha, was Phyrexian Processer/Crumbling Sanctuary that Tinker used to pull out circa a long time ago. Where they would sac off most of their life make huge dudes and then drop Crumbling Sanctuary and life totals were no longer relevent and the opponent was staring down an intimidating clock.

This deck has sort of the first half of that theme going anyway making huge threats at the cost of life, just is lacking a way to get around the fact that you're sitting at 3-5 life. Shining Shoal is perfect for this, but something a bit more reliable is probably needed.

Maybe Worship? It's a bit high for your mana curve, but with Lightning Greaves its a psudo-lock.

EDIT: Few More Ideas...



On looking at this guy further I agree, a 3/5 just isn't all that impressive for 3. It's ok, but the fact that its not even guarenteed to be a 3/5 seems like its probably just not worth it. I would say just replace them with Phyrexian Warbeasts, although they are not white, they are guarenteed 3/4s for 3 mana which is really going to be as good most of the time.

Here is an idea of a sample direction you could take the deck if you were going to work Worship in and drop the Second Chance and Convalescent Care...

4 Loxodon Peacekeeper
4 Flesh Reaver
4 Avatar of Hope
3 Phyrexian Warbeast

4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Shining Shoal
4 Worship
4 Duress
2 Funeral Charm

4 Lightning Greaves
2 O-Naginata

4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Brass
4 Rishadan Port
4 Windswept Heath
3 Scrubland
2 Caves of Koilos


The reasoning behind the changes...

1) Opal Avenger becomes Phyrexian Warbeast... Still not blown away by this slot, but its an unconditional beater, which could come in handy against Combo or something as a turn 2 play that can swing turn 3, where as if no pressure is being applied to you it may take 4-5 turns to get to 10 life and start swinging with Avenger.

2) Convalescent Care becomes Worship... Effectively the same concept keep you alive while you are at low life. Worship combos with Lightning greaves, and doesn't run the risks of leaving you at 5 health unprotected. Extra Worships can easily be pitched to Shoal if there is no danger of the one in play being removed.

3) Second Chance becomes Duress... The idea of Second Chance is nice, but it seems like a win-more card, and it means adding another splash to the deck, really doesn't seem to justify itself to me anyway. Since keeping Worship in play will keep you alive I would say adding a bit of discard to support this, strip counters and disenchants is a strong strategy.

4) 2x O-Naginata become 2x Funeral Charm... Mostly for some added versitility and the fact that 8 equipment seemed too high for the creature count. Funeral Charm gets Goblin Lacky dead, which is important, and isn't completely dead vs combo which is nice. It also can be used for combat tricks of either pumping up your guy or reducing an opponents guy's toughness, just a very versitile card.

5) Manabase... Since this build would be down to 2 colors and nothing requires WW or BB, the color demands are a lot more relaxed. I feel like Rishadan Port or Wasteland if one prefered could be a good addition to the mana base as the deck would still be able to run 13 w/b sources. Also I think running some Duals along side City of Brass and Ancient Tomb would be wise as most of the deck has color requirements it will come up at times that casting things without taking all that damage would be preferable.

For a Sideboard, I would probably go with something along the lines of...

4 Chalice of the Void
3 Engineered Plague
3 Glowrider
3 Pithing Needle
2 Disenchant

Versus Combo and NQG: Chalices and Glowriders can come in for a combinations of Shoals/Swords to Plowshares/Worship/Funeral Charms.

Versus Goblins: Engineered Plauge and Pithing Needle can come in for Duress and maybe a Warbeast and a LGreaves.

Glowrider, Pithing Needle, and Disenchant are good against other random things too.

Anyway just a few more thoughts...


Well, I would run 22 lands opposed to 21 just because of worship and my very very fragile manabase. Taking out second chance and all blue cards is a good idea.

The thing with convalescent care is that during late game, I won't be able to use my lands if I'm at 1 life, although I can use the colorless mana, I still would want to use white for swords or something along the lines. Also, it is almost guranteed that I am able to draw the extra card and gain the 3 life per turn. I actually care about the card more than the life most of the time, and card advantage means your drawing into shoal fodder, more threats, or removal.

Duress for second chance, good idea. I think my friend had duresses in for second chance already.

As for the lands, here is where I have a bit of disagreement with you. Tarnished citadel seems like one of the most important aspects of playing avatar of hope and keeping the loxodon on your side, not to mention that its 3 life loss is neglible and very very helpful at most points. I can agree with windswept heath and scrubland, but would godless shrine be a better option because you can choose to lose 2 life? The hard thing with this deck is that its not easy finding the right manabase to make sure all your cards can be used at optimum levels. Rashidian port- mmmmhhh... I don't care for it too much, as I rather play tarnished citadel in its place.

Worship- good idea once again, but I would only run 3.

Funeral Charm for O-Naginata- with shining shoals and swords, do I really need 2 more random pieces of removal? I know how good the card is, but I am losing a lot of agression by taking out 0-naginata, as none of my creatures have trample, and losing 4 life a turn being chump blocked is not very apealing.

so hows this:


4 Loxodon Peacekeeper
4 Flesh Reaver
4 Avatar of Hope
3 Opal Avenger OR Jotun Grunt OR Serra Avenger This is mainly because I want shoal more shoal fodder

4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Shining Shoal
3 Worship
4 Duress
1 Card of your choice (convalescent care? dunno)

4 Lightning Greaves
3 O-Naginata

4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Brass
4 Tarnished Citadel
4 Windswept Heath
4 Scrubland OR Godless Shrine (Maybe 2 of each?)
2 Caves of Koilos

[n00bas4urus_r3x]

I'd suggest Night's Whisper for this deck. It'll help you smooth out your draws some as well as refilling your hand. As life is an issue here, the 2 off of Whispering should be in your favor.

[Androstanolone]

I'd suggest Night's Whisper for this deck. It'll help you smooth out your draws some as well as refilling your hand. As life is an issue here, the 2 off of Whispering should be in your favor.

As opposed to phyrexian arena, whisper is probably better. It provides a quick burst rather than slow draw. Also arena can kill you while you can always choose not to cast whisper. Since this deck seeks to win very quickly via controlled suicide, Night's Whisper is an excellent choice.

[blackguard90]

so which place would you take out for whisper? (second list)

[n00bas4urus_r3x]

From your list a few posts above, perhaps the O-Naginatas and have the one extra card be a fourth Whisper. While the O-Naginatas make your guys fatter, you'll more than likly be drawing into more threats with the Whispers, so this can cancel out the loss of the equipment. When using Whisper, I've found that it's best to have a discard outlet incase you get the shaft, mine has always been Wild Mongrel. The best I could come up with for this deck was Drekavac, but thats pretty lousy...

What do you think of Vampiric Spirit?

[Cavius The Great]

Serpent Warrior might also be something to consider along with Vampiric Spirit.

[Nydaeli]

Deep Analysis: Sorry, I thought you had a discard outlet in there somewhere, and you obviously don't. Never mind.

Worship is a great suggestion. It has fantastic synergy with Lightning Greaves, coincidentally.

I really want Pain's Reward to be a good card for the deck. It's in keeping with the reject-rare theme. It's probably not, though.

[from Cairo]

I see your point on Tarnished Citadel, probably best to leave it in there then.

I would still lean towards 4 Worship, just because, Worship+Greaves+Guy = win versus quite a few decks game one. Maximizing your ability to draw it seems good. Also it will be a target for counters and removal seeing a second one in a given game could be a life saver, and if its a dead draw cause one is in play, then you have most likely in a good position; the only time you wouldnt be in a good position is if you didnt have the creature in play in which case that would advocate upping the creature count more so then nessicarily reducing the Worship count. Also the fact that it pitches to Shoal for 4 which makes it a very solid candidate for Shoaling, second only to the Avatar :tongue:.

Grunt is probably a better creature to have then Opal Avenger, idk Avenger just doesnt seem agressive enough for the deck, not that Warbeast was an improvement. If there were a 3cc-4cc white 4/4+ it would be ideal, Grunt is probably a safe play though as a 3 of.

For Funeral Charm it could go either way, I think its a good filler slot when there isnt something really appealing that stands out to you as a must play for the deck. It's never a dead draw, and is good against goblins, can help force through a couple more points or force a trade with a bigger guy (though admitedly there isnt much trumping 4/4s in the format), and can grab the worst card in target players hand when none of the other options would be better. So yea I think its cut-able, if there is something that will suplement the decks weak spots more then Funeral Charm's flexablilty; there probably is, running it through the big 3 and assorted other stuff will probably help make the weaknesses that need to be addressed more apparent.

[blackguard90]

Updated, here are some possible candidates for maindeck:

1) Night's whisper, awsome card, I love it. But what to cut?!?!
2) Vampiric Spirit, a nice black beatdown creature. Although the card demands LIFE LOSS, which isn't a good thing.
3) Jotun Grunt, probably better than Opal Avenger, but only stays alive for 1-3 turns, which means it is not synergistic with worship.

[Radley]

If only cruel bargain and infernal contract is possible to use(not possible? because of the CC). Children of korlis would be a nice combi with infernal contract but the deck won't look right.

[outsideangel]

I can't really look at a B/W deck and not think some number of Vindicate should be there. It answers basically everything, including a number of very problematic enchantments that your deck otherwise can't really deal with. (Solitary Confinement, etc.)

[blackguard90]

I can't really look at a B/W deck and not think some number of Vindicate should be there. It answers basically everything, including a number of very problematic enchantments that your deck otherwise can't really deal with. (Solitary Confinement, etc.)

I totally agree that vindicate should be here, but what should I cut? Every card in this deck is very relevant to my strategy, even O-nag to a lesser extent. The only problem is vindicate contributes nothing to the overall strategy, while it is a good card.

[Phantom]

It feels like I'm suggesting this everywhere lately, but this deck looks prime for Enlightened Tutor. It's so easy to fit in:

-1 Worship
-1 O-Naginata
-1 Greaves

+3 E Tutor

That will prevent you from randomness like drawing 3 Worships and no Greaves and all that nonsense. Basically, it lets you choose which lock piece to go get.

It also improves your sideboard ten fold. Now you are virtually guaranteed a Plague and Chalice against any deck you board them in. Also, if you change the disenchants to Seal of Cleansings, then you will see them more than twice as much.

If you do decide to do this, I would reccomend throwing in one or two artifact creatures so you could fetch them if you have worship and greaves.

[blackguard90]

Thats a very good idea phantom. The one thing I don't like about any of the 1 mana tutor is that they don't provide card advantage, although not a key part of this deck, so it doesnt matter! Anyways, enlightened tutor would be an excellent addition as it looks good on paper, gotta try it out though.

Thanks!

[Cavius The Great]

I don't know about Enlightened Tutor, maybe Spoils of the Vault would be better. Or is that too suicidal...

[n00bas4urus_r3x]

If you're adding a search, add Whisper. It's way better than tutor, because it actually nets you a card, AND the cards are already in your hand, which is a big deal with the beat down feel of this deck. While you may not be able to get what you want with every whisper, I feel the card is way better that E. tutor.

[Goaswerfraiejen]

I don't know about Enlightened Tutor, maybe Spoils of the Vault would be better. Or is that too suicidal...

I think that Plunge into Darkness would be better, since it allows YOU to dictate your own life loss, thus managing it. It also gives you a selection of cards to choose from, whereas Spoils is pretty narrow. Besides, maybe your opponent will make the mistake of thinking you're playing TES. ;)


The other, non-Worship option would be Glacial Chasm, but I suspect that Worship will work better for you.

[blackguard90]

well, I would still like to try E. tutor, just because it makes my lock a lot more realistic. Also, plunge into darkness only delves for 1 card, while the entwine ability is just absolutely useless because I don't have a lot of creatures and I wouldn't want to sacrifice them.

I think that you guys are forgetting that the deck pilot has a say in everything. What I mean is that the pilot chooses how much life to lose, not by some random card like spoils of the vault. In all of my games, My opponnents have yet to deal more than 10 damage to me throughout the game, which means that I deal to my self an amount that I choose. It should be noted that when you leave life with fate and luck, then your deck isn't consistent.