[Deck] Survival

[ivanpei]

I'd consider it balance. Finks evens out the life-loss from bob when against control. Also finks doesn't disappear completely when you're board gets swept by a spout/ deed. He still beats, IMO finks is a pretty underrated card. Against aggro, an early bob on T2/3 will always eat removal as it will win you the game if dropped early enough. Unfortunately he's not a very good topdeck against aggro later in the game but he's servicable. Wall of blossoms is a good suggestion, so is mom. I'll give them a test. Both seem very good vs aggro. MoM seems good against both aggro and control. That will be on my to watch list. Cheers.

[crow_mw]

Survival of the fittest was my first serious deck in Legacy and pet deck since than. I did play tribals or Zoo few times, but none of those gave me as much pleasure as playing Survival. Over those years I have been lurking this forums. I have seen Survival heroes come and go. I have learned to respect those of you who made successful predictions a number of times. It was great discussing with you all. Farewell and perhaps see you in other topics one day...

[GGoober]

Survival was the only reason I ever truly enjoyed playing a creature-based deck. It involved more than just turning creatures sideways. It involved strategy, resource management, playing mostly the control role but being on the aggression when the coast is clear. Vengevine made Survival into a dumb aggro deck, it turned Survival into a slave-machine to power out creatures that even a termite could play the game.

Anyway, enjoyed every moment while it lasted. No regrets, since I fully enjoyed the card, the decks, the archetypes (and yes I never touched Vengevival, never tainted the essence of what we called Survival of the Fittest). Ironically, the evolution of Survival to its "fittest" was the cause of its death/unsurvival.

[sdematt]

Just wondering if we were going to let this thread fade into the ether, or if you wanted to do evolution of the deck for fun?

I enjoyed my time with the card, but I'm curious if we wanted to also work on it just for fun?

-Matt

[Piceli89]

I wasn't a Survival player and I am happy about not going to see that flurry of Vengevines winning dumbly and easily, but guys I feel really displeased for all of you who used the card in a "clever" way.
I know how it feels to see your pet deck destroyed, I had the same experience with Mystical Tutor. At least you saw it coming.

P

[ivanpei]

I think survival isn't 100% dead. IMO, it is never going to be tier one again but fauna Iona retainers still works effectively. For those who still want to work on the deck, the focus has to shift to a different engine. I would start with 4 fauna, 4 dark confidant. Squee is officially too slow now so only Iona and retainers left in. Mother of runes should also be included to protect the creature based engines. Kotr should come in to fill the power level hole left by survival. Dear survival, how I will miss you so. The list I'd start to work with:

4 Thoughtseize
4 swords
4 vial

4 bob
4 fauna
4 kotr
4 goyf
2 qasali
1 boneshredder
1 Iona
1 retainers
4 mother

4 wasteland
1 volrath
2 canopy
4 verdant
4 windswept
1 marsh
1 forest
3 bayou
3 savanna

[hungryboi]

Great to see that Ivan is still trying to keep the tread alive. I don't know how viable Survival will be now without the sexi enchantment that Brian Seldon made famous. I feel that the Rock + Dark Horizons does a better job of controlling than any other BGW deck. Squee was crucial in gaining C/A but it's very hard to abuse without the Survival Engine. Without C/A or a combo kill (Iona takes 2-3 turns and is considered a soft lock) I don't think this deck will be viable. Plus, people run karakas now as well.

[sdematt]

I'll still be rocking Survival at local tournaments long after the ban goes into effect, just casually. I don't think Fauna Shaman is good enough due to only having one activation per turn, and it can't be used the turn you play it. I'm not saying stop your innovation, ivanpei, but I'm just going to go on my merry way and still run Survival. :D

-Matt

[ivanpei]

True, I may be overly optimistic. I just can't get over the fact that my loyal retainers and foil Japanese faunas will be relegated to the sad folder. :( will try it out. It's at least an attempt.

[hungryboi]

I'll definitely be reading The Source from time to time but I think my competitive days are over. Part of the reason is just the hatred I have now for Wizards and the fact that they let one new card screw one of the oldest Archetypes in the format over. I'm going to sell my duals and Legacy staples...I don't want to hold onto any investments made by a company I despise. I sure as hell am not ever going to support them and buy another booster pack. There's a thin line between love and hate :P

[crow_mw]

I think survival isn't 100% dead. IMO, it is never going to be tier one again but fauna Iona retainers still works effectively. For those who still want to work on the deck, the focus has to shift to a different engine. I would start with 4 fauna, 4 dark confidant. Squee is officially too slow now so only Iona and retainers left in. Mother of runes should also be included to protect the creature based engines. Kotr should come in to fill the power level hole left by survival. Dear survival, how I will miss you so. The list I'd start to work with:


Black-splashed survival builds without survival look more or less like rock builds and I guess at least some people who got attached to their cards will play that deck. However I don't fully agree with your suggestions. Trying to go for Iona soft-lock with shaman sounds suicidal to me, even if you manage to protect the smaman via mother. I don't believe you can rely on shaman to build any sort of combo. What we could try to do is play like old RG(b)SA used to - include Squee in your build and use shaman to land a Goyf / Kotr each turn with possibility to get qasali pridemage / mother or maybe one of the very few singleton bullets when thats advantegous. This won't be a tier 1 strategy, but at the very least seems more viable than trying to set up Iona lock...

[Muela]

Just a few thoughts:

Survival was the only reason I ever truly enjoyed playing a creature-based deck. It involved more than just turning creatures sideways. It involved strategy, resource management, playing mostly the control role but being on the aggression when the coast is clear. Vengevine made Survival into a dumb aggro deck, it turned Survival into a slave-machine to power out creatures that even a termite could play the game.

Anyway, enjoyed every moment while it lasted. No regrets, since I fully enjoyed the card, the decks, the archetypes (and yes I never touched Vengevival, never tainted the essence of what we called Survival of the Fittest). Ironically, the evolution of Survival to its "fittest" was the cause of its death/unsurvival.

My same thoughts and history.



I wasn't a Survival player and I am happy about not going to see that flurry of Vengevines winning dumbly and easily, but guys I feel really displeased for all of you who used the card in a "clever" way.
I know how it feels to see your pet deck destroyed, I had the same experience with Mystical Tutor. At least you saw it coming.

P

I guess you may still see some VVs with intuitions.



I'll definitely be reading The Source from time to time but I think my competitive days are over. Part of the reason is just the hatred I have now for Wizards and the fact that they let one new card screw one of the oldest Archetypes in the format over. I'm going to sell my duals and Legacy staples...I don't want to hold onto any investments made by a company I despise. I sure as hell am not ever going to support them and buy another booster pack. There's a thin line between love and hate :P

You are not alone in that way of thinking. I really wish that there would be even a greater invasion of VV and it would get banned. I know that it wouldn't get back SotF. I also think that scenario impossible, but hey! I thought the same about banning SotF, and they have shown how stupidity will always surpass imagination :rolleyes:

[ivanpei]

I guess this thread is truely dead. However can Green Sun's Zenith breath new life into survival? I mean there should be a new thread called GSZ-Fauna Shaman.deck but these two cards seem to come together to form a deck very similar to survival. This can increase the engine cards up to 8, and will involve a toolbox. GSZ is basically fauna 5-8 as well as being able to go directly for the tutor target or as an llawonar elf. I don't know if this makes this deck good enough without the namesake card but I'm interested in testing this:

The engine:

4 Dark Confidant
4 GSZ
4 Fauna Shaman

The Bullets:
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Harmonic Sliver
1 Boneshredder
1 Shriekmaw
1 Eternal Witness
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Gaddock Teeq

1 Loyal Retainers
1 Iona

The Bread and Butter:

4 Birds of Paradise
4 Thoughtseize
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Tarmogoyf

23 Lands

Would this be enough? Or is survival still crap? The upside now is 8 Turn 1 accel, which is very significant, and basically 8 fauna shamans. I'll just play with it and see if its anywhere near competitive. Gonna be a hell of a lot of fun though.

[Waikiki]

thats actually pretty interesting. Too bad it's alot weaker against CB which is seeing more and more play

[Shabbaman]

GSZ doesn't seem weak v.s. CB: GSZ for 3 mana, put Qasali Pridemage into play.

[ScatmanX]

GSZ doesn't seem weak v.s. CB: GSZ for 3 mana, put Qasali Pridemage into play.

Its safer to GSZ for 4 and find the Pridemage...

[RexFTW]

Its safer to GSZ for 4 and find the Pridemage...

Is it really that much safer? daze/spellpierce!

[Lemnear]

The problem is speed. GSZ and Fauna Shaman are DAMN slow compared to survival.

I would start a list with:

4x Noble hierarch
4x GSZ
1x Dryad Arbor
4x Goofy
4x Knight of the Reliquary
2x Q. Pridemage

Sound like some kind of Big Zoo to me ^^ .... Anyway, I prefer testing GSZ with 4 Goofies in Countertop.


btw. Gaddock Teeg doesn't like Zenith

[ivanpei]

Agreed Teeq hates Zenith, but A turn 2 Zenith into teeq against combo off a zenith/birds/noble turn 1 is pretty good. Probably teeq is sideboard material. I'm stuck between the control lists with bob + big toolbox or aggro + Kotrs/wastelands and good cards. I'll test both and post my results. Anyone else working on a fauna-zenith deck?

[Muela]

After 6 months of quitraging and a move to another country (thanks for the welcome Dutch people!), I will keep an eye on this thread.

However, it is going to be sooo difficult not to compare it to the original survival...

What about trying to abuse the (hateful) VV?

[Jak]

Best necro I have ever seen. Next up, the old Hulk Flash threads!