[Deck] Enlightened Cataclysm

[urdjur]

A while back, Godzilla brought my attention to Cataclysm in the old Angel Stompy thread. Since then, I've been doing some fanatical testing of Cataclysm builds to find an optimal home in mono-white for it. Rather than looking at Angel Stompy and asking what Cataclysm could add to it, I looked at Cataclysm and asked myself what the other 56 slots should be. The final stages of developement and some more background is described in this thread at the WotC Legacy board:
http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=827002
Kudos to all contributors there.

This is quite a long primer with everything I've gathered since I started toying with the concept. For a quick overview, just read the decklist and summary. There are three more comprehensive sections for the interested reader: Card Descriptions, Playing Tips, and Match-up Overview.

ENLIGHTENED CATACLYSM

LAND (22)
21 Plains
1 Ancient Den

CREATURES (22)
4 Isamaru, Hound of Konda
4 Mother of Runes
4 Knight of the Holy Nimbus
4 Samurai of the Pale Curtain
4 Razor Golem
2 Serra Avenger

DISRUPTION (12)
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Cataclysm
1 Pithing Needle
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Rule of Law
1 Engineered Explosives

JOKERS (4)
4 Enlightened Tutor

SIDEBOARD (15)
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Glowrider
3 Aura of Silence
1 Absolute Law
1 Parallax Wave
1 Manriki-Gusari
1 Energy Storm

CONCEPT SUMMARY
The primary strategy of Enlightened Cataclysm is to set up a favorable board position for a mid game Cataclysm, with some help from Enlightened Tutor (ET) to get the requisite pieces. Failing Cataclysm, the deck's secondary strategy is to maintain aggressive pressure, possibly while tutoring for "silver bullets" that are important in a given match-up (the 1-ofs in the list).

The deck is weak against Faerie Stompy but compensates with dedicated sideboard hate, about average against combo, and quite strong against most aggro and control decks. Among the more important MUs, some of the favorable ones include Goblins, Threshold, 43land, Affinity, and Zoo.

CARD DESCRIPTIONS
Plains: This deck has little use for acceleration, and need plains for Razor Golem.
Ancient Den: Allows you to fetch a white source with ET to ensure that you don't miss a land drop when it matters (either before or after a Cataclysm).
Isamaru, Hound of Konda: A good fit for the deck, since you might as well have him perish in a sweeper if you have another on hand. Also a powerful play off the single land that you keep after a Cataclysm. Good against Goblins and combo.
Mother of Runes: Origin of all that is good and mother to us all. She rarely attacks, but she chumps like a champ, can provide evasion in a pinch, and often gives you card advantage one way or the other. Especially important to protect SotPC (and the SB Glowriders) from nonsense.
Knight of the Holy Nimbus: Also a good fit, since most decks can neither afford to make him killable in the early game, nor after Cataclysm. You also have Pithing Needle to make him unkillable if the opponent would have mana to spend. A good blocker and a good attacker that kills Nimble Mongoose on the offense.
Samurai of the Pale Curtain: Another "effective 3/3" in combat that also kills Mongoose. A problem for Threshold by just sitting there, and for all those decks that depend on permanents actually getting into the graveyard. Essentially adds a "remove from game" effect to Cataclysm.
Razor Golem: The heart of the deck, the most common ET fetch, and the key to setting up a powerful Cataclysm. Essentially makes Mongoose unable to attack or block and makes short work of weenies like Goblins. Also good if you don't cast Cataclysm, as it gets more and more undercosted.
Serra Avenger: Your "finisher". The vengeful lady is very castable after a Cataclysm, or instead of Cataclysm if you go with the secondary strategy, or even before a later game Cataclysm. A very flexible fit in this deck.
Swords to Plowshares: Used to mop up whatever's left of the opponent's board position after Cataclysm. Also goes well with the "remove from game" theme of the deck.
Cataclysm: With this we punish decks. Decks that overextend one type of permanent to the board often suffer the most, in particular since SotPC cheats them of various graveyard trickery (highly relevant for 43Land and Affinity).
Pithing Needle: Can cripple so many things in so many different decks - just tutor for it if you see something that is displeasing to you, or use it on KotHN if you have nothing better to do.
Umezawa's Jitte: This is typically what you tutor for when you can't (or don't want to) cast Cataclysm. Very multipurpose as it increases your clock, kills creatures or gives you life.
Rule of Law: This single card is a significant part of what occasionally makes game one winnable against combo. Also good against threshold and many other decks. Tutor for it as needed.
Engineered Explosives: The answer to many problems, an EE for 0 bypasses CotV @ 1 or 2 and blows up the same. Tokens also have 0 cc, which makes for fun times. If set to 1, it blows up vials, lackeys, mongeese, kird apes and other weenies, rancor (remember the SotPC effect) and a bunch of other stuff.
Enlightened Tutor: The workhorse of the deck. I refer to them as "Jokers" since they can grab any type of permanent, and can "be" whatever it is you need them to be in a pinch.

Sideboard
Chalice of the Void: Your key to winning against combo and also useful against burn, threshold and a few others. In some games you can opt to only bring one in as a tutor target.
Glowrider: Wrecks combo and burn, and generally slows down anything with few creatures.
Aura of Silence: This was identified as the best disenchant effect against Faerie Stompy (a hard MU) since it bypasses CotV and ignores Misdirection. Being tutorable is also a bonus. The fact that it also works as a double Sphere of Resistance against Stax and Affinity is truly awesome, and it works well both if you keep or board out Cataclysm.
Absolute Law: Your goblins silver bullet, which is also nice to have against anything with red removal.
Parallax Wave: Save your creatures from sweepers or remove your opponent's creatures. You can bring it in against most control or aggro, especially to have an alternative powerful 4-drop if you need to side out Jitte.
Manriki-Gusari: This is mainly FS hate. For those that use less equipment, you're usually better off with the more versatile Aura of Silence.
Energy Storm: This is also FS hate, but finds application against burn too.

PLAYING TIPS
Like many aggro-control deck, Enlightened Cataclysm can handle many things, but it needs to rely on different strategies to do so. Unlike threshold, you can't just counter any problems that may arise. Sometimes you can afford to be reactive, but often you must be proactive. It's very important to know what your up against for you to be able to make the right plays (so you don't waste an ET for instance).

Setting up Cataclysm
This is a good strategy against opponents that quickly flood the board with stuff, or when mana denial is important. To set up an ideal Cataclysm, we need 4 things:
*1 Cataclysm
*4 mana (one of the lands can be tutored for if necessary)
*1 SotPC or KotHN
*1 Razor Golem (can be tutored for if necessary)

The sequence could for example look something like:
Turn 1: ET for land or Razor Golem, depending on what you need
Turn 2: SotPC or KotHN
Turn 3: Razor Golem
Turn 4: Cataclysm
Turn 5: StP or a 1-drop/2-drop depending on mana available

If you're on the play in game 1, it is nice to be able to postpone ET to opponent's EOT without tempo loss. That way, you can quickly change strategies in case your nemesis drops an Island or Polluted Delta, and you suspect combo. The deck allows for somewhat later Cataclysms too without loosing tempo or board advantage, since you can keep playing even more powerful creatures and artifacts a few rounds more. For example, you might be able to keep a Jitte and a Serra Avenger in a turn 6 Cataclysm. Razor Golem + 2-drop is often as good as it gets for the earliest possible Cataclysm however.

Of course, you should avoid loosing permanents when you Cataclysm, but definetely not at all costs, as long as it hits your opponent harder than you. Save your removal to after the Cataclysm, and let your opponent "waste" his prematurely if possible. If, at any point, you suspect that flooding the board would be a better strategy, just play it all out and nevermind Cataclysm.

Flooding the Board
Flooding the board can be a better strategy than setting up an ideal Cataclysm against certain opponents or depending on what hand you get. As noted above, the two strategies do have some overlap so that you might go from flooding to early Cataclysm with minimal losses of permanents, or from setting up to late creature flood with minimal tempo loss. The only time you really want to avoid this strategy is if you suspect sweepers like Deed or Wrath.

Try to finish off the creature flood with a powerful fetch that keeps on giving in terms of card advantage or tempo advantage against the opponent you're playing. It might look something like this:
Turn 1: Isamaru
Turn 2: KotHN
Turn 3: SotPC, StP
Turn 4: Serra Avenger, ET for Umezawa's Jitte
Turn 5: Umezawa's Jitte

Using the Toolbox
Running 4 ET as "Jokers" to set up Cataclysm gives you an opportunity to incorporate a powerful, versatile, and compact toolbox using only 4 card slots (the 1-ofs), as described above. Since ET can't do everything at once, you must normally choose what's most important to you in a match-up: setting up Cataclysm advantageously, quickly getting lots of meat on the board, or going with a silver bullet that will make winning easy peasy.

Against combo, fetching Rule of Law will usually be the only correct use of your first ET. IGGy Pop might be able to go off turn 2, but you have SotPC and Needle to slow them down. Solidarity might be able to counter your investment, but then again, you might then be able to resolve Cataclysm the round after.

You should generally avoid the toolbox strategy against anything packing lots of counters. ET means card disadvantage, which doesn't matter if you're going to Cataclysm, but it does matter if you're not. With ET, you signal your decisive play and the opponent essentially gets to 2-for-1 you with his counter. In such matches, just flood the board with creatures in the early game and postpone any fetches for later when you have nothing better to do anyway.

In games 2-3, try to trim your toolbox with the additional silver bullets in the sideboard, so that every 1-of in your deck is higly relevant in the match-up, whether you ET for it, top deck it, or get it in your starting hand.

MATCH-UP OVERVIEW
Goblins: Your lack of MD pro:red is compensated by generally tough creatures like mom, KotHN and Razor Golem and all your disruption. Cataclysm is very good here. ET can be used to fetch needle for Vial, or to blow it up with EE, or to get Jitte. Variants packing Jitte of their own and/or Tin-Street Hooligan are the toughest opponents. Sideboard suggestions:
-1 Rule of Law: Technically, Goblins rarely "play spells".
-1 Umezawa's Jitte: If they run them you want to be able to pithe - if they don't, they will bring in an answer.
+1 Absolute Law: Often the most valuable tutor target in this MU.
+1 Parallax Wave: If you can't clysm, this 4-drop saves you from Anarchy, or it removes green men so that you can win.

Threshold: Flooding the board is a good strategy here, and one they typically can't keep up with. EE to blow up mongeese is usually the most valuable fetch, as is Jitte. There's little to pithe, but a needled KotHN blocks werebears all day. Rule of Law isn't bad, but not a top priority. You can sideboard very strongly against them:
-4 Cataclysm: Rarely useful in this MU .
-4 Enlightened Tutor: The card disadvantage is bad here, especially if they counter, plus it interferes with CotV @1.
-1 Pithing Needle: No useful targets, and interferes with Chalice.
+4 Chalice of the Void: The best 2-drop, expect it to draw counters.
+4 Glowrider: You now have 26 creatures, they have 10-14.
+1 Absolute Law (UGr)/Aura of Silence (UGw): Against red removal or anticipated Worship lock (you also have EE for the latter).

Solidarity: You might win game 1 here, but don't count on it. You have a decent clock, and a resolved Rule of Law or Cataclysm typically means that you win. After sideboarding, you want to drop CotV@1 turn 2 and/or Glowrider/Rule of Law turn 3, and then Cataclysm at your earliest convenience. Use ET turn 1 to get these requisite drops, or play a threat if you have them already. Sideboarding tips:
-4 StP: No targets.
-1 Pithing Needle: No good targets.
-1 Engineered Explosives: Nothing to blow up.
-2 2-drops: Your choice of SotPC/KotHN, since they accomplish little here and you'd rather drop Chalice on turn 2
+4 Chalice of the Void: Drop it @1 turn 2, and another @2 in the late game if you haven't managed to Cataclysm yet.
+4 Glowrider: They have no creatures and are greatly slowed.

43Land: This is a very strong MU. SotPC and StP stop graveyard recursion and Cataclysm punishes their overcommittment to the board. EE blows up their enabling enchantments. I think an important aspect in this MU is that your deck falls between their own control strategies. They have Tabernacle to punish decks with many small creatures (like goblins) and Maze to punish decks with a few large creatures (like thresh), but you're running an intermediate number of intermediately sized creatures. Also their mana disruption doesn't really affect you that much.
-1 Rule of Law: Accomplishes little in this MU.
+1 Chalice of the Void: Play this @2 to lock their engine late game if you can't clysm ftw.

IGGy Pop: You can win some game ones here, thanks to SotPC, Pithing Needle and Rule of Law, possibly backed up by Jitte life gain. But IGGy can be fast and unpredictable, so there are no guarantees. Games 2-3 should be very solid though:
-4 StP: No targets.
-4 Cataclysm: No point.
+4 Chalice of the Void: Drop it @0 turn 1, and possibly another @1 later when you have your bases covered.
+4 Glowrider: They have no creatures and are greatly slowed, plus you add 4 more threats to increase the kill speed.

Affinity: SotPC is really what makes this MU go from roughly even to distinctly favorable. They have an easy time handling Cataclysm without it, but it's a devastating blow with SotPC in play. StP also messes with the graveyard strategy. There are many variants of Affinity out there, but it's generally a strong option to board in Aura of Silence and take out whatever it was that didn't work so well for you.

Angel Stax: Tutor for EE immediately here to handle CotV. Chip away on their life total with a few creatures, and play new threats if they manage to remove them. You can usually wriggle free of any lock their combination of artifacts have you in as soon as you Cataclysm, and then their empire falls apart. Sideboard recommendations:
-4 StP: They have 3 creatures, and you can use Wave or Jitte to fight an angel if necessary.
-2 Creatures: A mommy or KotHN can be safely removed.
-1 Pithing Needle: Their artifacts are static.
-1 Rule of Law: Has little effect in this MU.
+4 Glowrider: Slow them down, bypass CotV@1 or 2, not affected by Trinisphere.
+3 Aura of Silence: Slows them down or removes the most troublesome lock component.
+1 Parallax Wave: A good fetch if you can't clysm, to save your creatures from mass removal, or to handle Angel.

Faerie Stompy: This is a difficult match-up and one where game one depends heavily on play skill, and games 2-3 depend on anticipating SB choices correctly. I'll go into it in some detail, since it's probably your hardest MU.

In game one, your first priority is needle on SoFI. If they equip Jitte instead, you can stop it by tutoring for your own. They typically use CotV after putting lots of offense on the board, and when they do it's probably for 2 in order to anticipate typical white artifact removal. You can remove CotV by tutoring for EE, or you can remove it indirectly through Cataclysm - a risky alternative, but perhaps the only one you have. FS has bigger creatures and equipment, and are perfectly capable of coming out stronger than you from a Cataclysm. Then again, it might make that CotV @ 1 go away along with their mox and all but one land, so that they can save an equipped flyer. Which you can then remove, now that StP is yet again castable. It's difficult to win game 1, mainly because there's too much pressure on ET to "do everything", but not impossible.

In game two, generally expect them to bring in Misdirection for StP and anticipated disenchant/abolish, as well as EE to blow up needle and weenies. You make the following changes:
-4 StP
-1 Rule of Law
-1 Jitte
+3 Aura of Silence
+1 Manriki-Gusari
+1 Energy Storm
+1 Parallax Wave
You have no spells that target, making Misdirection a wasted card, 3 general disenchant effects that also stalls the opponent, and the ability to fetch specialized artifact removal with your ET to gain card advantage (EE removes all moxen and CotV, manriki-gusari eats equipment). CotV@1 is pretty irrelevant since your bombs are 2cc or 3cc. Then again, CotV@2 permits you to fetch EE and blow it and any moxen up. AoS removes anything regardless of CotV. Try to drop an early threat and either AoS or Energy Storm rounds 2-3 to stall him while you play catch-up. Locking down artifacts forces him to play creatures instead, and you can trim these down with Cataclysm or Parallax Wave. Remember that FS is explosive but quickly runs out of steam if its equipment doesn't come on-line. Games 2-3 are still challenging, but definetely winnable.

Burn: Very winnable if you can tutor for Rule of Law, get counters on Jitte before you die, or sometimes even when you can do an early Cataclysm to deny them the mana for the last damage needed. Games 2-3 are strongly in your favor:
-4 StP: No targets.
-4 Cataclysm: Too slow to guarantee effectiveness.
-1 Engineered Explosives: Nothing to blow up.
-1 Pithing Needle: You can consider leaving this in for Barbarian Ring if they run it.
+4 Chalice of the Void: Takes out many cards in most burn variants.
+4 Glowrider: Slows them down while adding more threats to your deck.
+1 Energy Storm: A lethal blow to their strategy while you attack with your threats.
+1 Absolute Law: They will do what they can to slow you down too.

Zoo: Engineered Explosives is very good here, since almost all their threats except Troll Ascetic and Jitte are usually 1 cc. As an extra bonus, SotPC prevents Rancor recursion. To handle their Jitte, you can either pithe it and ignore your own, cast yours preemptively and have fun while it lasts (and pithe later), or tutor for your jitte once they play their copy as a disenchant effect. Pithing KotHN can also be wise in this MU. Troll Ascetic has a hard time against your creatures since they are trained to eat mongeese, and it's not a problem without Jitte. Cataclysm is typically good, but take care not to leave them with a Jitte. Sideboarding strategies typically include CotV and/or bringing in Absolute Law and Energy Storm.

[Mirrislegend]

Well written and well presented. I am a little skeptical of how many good matchups you've reported.I bet it's just that you need better opponents to test against. And no matter what the fallout after further testing, it's still a very well done WW deck. Congrats, and rock on.

[tivadar]

Ok, first off, outside of Razor Golem, there's no reason not to be running at least 1 flagstones of trokair in this deck. In reality, I think it needs to be at least a 2-of, if not 3. It's just amazing with Cataclysm. Secondly, Grunt really needs to find a place in this deck. He's not terrific before the cataclysm, but is amazing afterwards.

I also don't see the need for ancient den. If you're really grabbing a den with ET, then you're doing something wrong, as you're gaining card disadvantage to be able to play a land next turn.

Finally, I really feel like this deck should have more of a tutor maindeck. 1-of answers to a lot you may see in the format, rather than postponing that to the board. This can be things like crypt, humility, and others.

One more thing, have you seen the most recent AS build? It runs Cataclysm, but no tutor. I've been toying with a blue version of it running Trinket Mage and SDT to provide the lands needed after a cataclysm.

EDIT: Ohh, and MoR seems bad here, as you won't want to keep her around after a cataclysm.

[urdjur]

Well written and well presented. I am a little skeptical of how many good matchups you've reported.I bet it's just that you need better opponents to test against. And no matter what the fallout after further testing, it's still a very well done WW deck. Congrats, and rock on.

Thanks. You may be right, but I want to clarify that the results in practice are neither that fantastic nor surprising. Mono-white aggro-control has traditionally had good MUs against aggro and control. Cataclysm simply epitomizes this fact in one card. Still, it's partially a game of chance and when I say a MU is favorable, I mean I win more than 50%, not that I win by 90% or something like that. Compared to AS, for instance, I have intentionally sacrificed some of the power against Goblins for more power against Threshold (though this is not a direct effect of Cataclysm, but a secondary effect of the deck that necessarily evolves around it).


Ok, first off, outside of Razor Golem, there's no reason not to be running at least 1 flagstones of trokair in this deck.

That's correct, or in other words: the argument for not running 1 flagstones of trokair in this deck is Razor Golem. Regardless of how many you put in though, you do not need to playtest one bit since you can simply ask yourself this question:

Is having 2 rather than 1 land left after Cataclysm X% of the time worth not being able to drop Razor Golem turn 3 X% of the time? Because the chances are approximately the same, since both cards are 4-ofs. I have found that I'd rather have consistency in setting up the Cataclysm (which entails dropping turn 3 razor golem), than an occasional mana boost after Cataclysm. If you find differently, by all means add flagstones to your taste.


I also don't see the need for ancient den. If you're really grabbing a den with ET, then you're doing something wrong, as you're gaining card disadvantage to be able to play a land next turn.

That is exactly what I'm doing, and what I'm also doing is gaining card disadvantage so I can play Cataclysm the next turn. Cataclysm, of course, brings along HUGE AMOUNTS of card disadvantage since it destroys permanents. That's part of the synergy between ET and Cataclysm - Cataclysm effectively "hides" the ET card disadvantage. Rather than play an extra weenie that would die anyway once I did top-deck the mana to cast that cataclysm, I cast an instant with inherit card disadvantage anyway to enable me to cast Cataclysm earlier. The idea being that my opponent will be at an even greater (card) disadvantage if I can cast it in time. Playing 22 land and 4 ET is almost like running 26 lands as far as getting that 4th land drop goes - something that's only 55% likely without tutorability.

Usually though, you need that tutor for other purposes. It's only when you already have the other three requisites that you consider using ET for getting that last land.


Grunt really needs to find a place in this deck. He's not terrific before the cataclysm, but is amazing afterwards.

Bad synergy with SotPC who already hates on graveyard strategies and I'd take him over grunt any day when it comes to Cataclysm synergy. I considered Grunt in the Serra Avenger slot a while back, but serra can be used whether you clysm or not.


Finally, I really feel like this deck should have more of a tutor maindeck. 1-of answers to a lot you may see in the format, rather than postponing that to the board. This can be things like crypt, humility, and others.

I see your point, but the more silver bullets you add, the more you dilute the primary aggressiveness of the deck. The four bullets that are there already handle most of the stuff you'll run into. The SB cards are more specialized. There are only so many cards you can fetch in a game - 2 targets for ET is more than sufficient. Of the ones you mention, crypt is so redundant it doesn't even have a sideboard slot and humility is horrible for my own strategy.


One more thing, have you seen the most recent AS build? It runs Cataclysm, but no tutor. I've been toying with a blue version of it running Trinket Mage and SDT to provide the lands needed after a cataclysm.

Yes, as I mentioned in the opening paragraph, that is where I noticed the potential of Cataclysm. Splashing for TM seems like a good option. One thing I've learned while constructing this deck is that it's generally more worthwhile to invest in ways to set up Cataclysm favorably, than trying to work around its effects so that you can cast more powerful stuff afterwards. No reason not to attempt both strategies of course, which is why I run both golems and avengers, for instance.


EDIT: Ohh, and MoR seems bad here, as you won't want to keep her around after a cataclysm.

Decks need one-drops. If you have ET, you often don't cast any 1cc creatures before cataclysm (see the sample set-up description above). If you don't, you use them to minimize life loss until turn 4, or simply to win in a standard aggro-race if you never cast cataclysm.

[Nihil Credo]

I do not wish to be the proverbial pooper of parties, but are you sure that removing Tombs and adding Tutors is enough to warrant an entirely separated thread from Angel Stompy?

[urdjur]

It's not so much that I removed Ancient Tomb. Or Exalted Angel (an important part of Angel Stompy), or silver knight, soltari priest, 5 out of 6 equipment pieces etc. It's that my concept was to make something of Cataclysm rather than improve Angel Stompy. All future mono white deck concepts to come should not be viewed as AS variants, just like AS should not be viewed as a WW variant (there's nothing "weenie" about Exalted Angel). You can group it all under mono white aggro-control if you wish, just as you might group U/W fish, UGw Thresh and UG madness under Ux aggro-control if you like.

As for starting a new thread, I obviously thought it was a good idea since I did it. If any moderator would prefer to merge it with the 60+ page thread that is the old Angel Stompy, so be it.

[lyracian]

I have been following the thread on the WotC site and I like this deck (so much so I have create an account just to comment on it).

As a casual MtG player I only have half the cards for the deck (need to get some Tutors) so have been beating the wife with an Exalted Angel/Golem/Cataclysm Hybrid and found it fun. White was always my favorite colour so I am glad to see it thriving.

Having looked at several Legacy decks they all seem to use 4x Chalice of the Void as key sideboard cards. Is this card so desperatly needed? or is it just that it makes everything (especailly high tide) easier?

My main thoughts on the deck itself though is its lack of card drawing ability, and (before sideboard) you have almost no Enchantments to survive Cataclysm. Do you thing the FS match would be better if you had Aura of Silence maindeck?

I am also happy to see Energy Storm is a deck. It was a card I really liked when Ice Age came out but have not used for ages. I used to use it with Skull of Orm or Boomerang.

[urdjur]

Having looked at several Legacy decks they all seem to use 4x Chalice of the Void as key sideboard cards. Is this card so desperatly needed? or is it just that it makes everything (especailly high tide) easier?

Short answer: yes. However, not all decks can use it realistically. Many fast aggro decks run so many 1cc cards (threshold and many zoo builds come to mind) that their clock is even more slowed than the combo clock they are trying to beat. I use it against combo, thresh, zoo and burn. Considering the poor game 1 combo MU, it is very needed and quite multi-purpose to boot.


My main thoughts on the deck itself though is its lack of card drawing ability, and (before sideboard) you have almost no Enchantments to survive Cataclysm. Do you thing the FS match would be better if you had Aura of Silence maindeck?

Yes. I made a few MD changes to the toolbox as I pointed out in the WotC thread. I'll update this thread too when I have a more improved build and a better sideboard to go with it.

The lack of enchantments is mainly because there are few good enchantments to run MD. Parallax Wave is the exception, but I typically want Cataclysm as my four drop and have Jitte to tutor for already if I fail that. It deserves a spot in the board though, as an alternative. Keeping two creatures is already sufficiently abusive of Cataclysm, that trying to set it up even more perfectly using enchantments is simply win more. However, the fact that a few silver bullet enchantments (like Rule of Law and AoS) can survive Cataclysm is a useful side effect of the strategy.

I suspected the lack of draw would come up as an argument sooner or later. The short answer is that Cataclysm is not about card quantity but card quality. It's supposed to wreck decks that are about quantity. Even if you go for a creature rush, I think ETutor is better than a card advantage engine like Mask of Memory. If you play MoM you need two connecting attacks to actually get card advantage, and you hope that you get something significant when you draw. With ETutor you can guarantee that you get something powerful the next turn.


I am also happy to see Energy Storm is a deck. It was a card I really liked when Ice Age came out but have not used for ages. I used to use it with Skull of Orm or Boomerang.

Unfortunately, I'm considering cutting it as it helps little against FS. StP (as it turns out, Misdirection usually only comes in if the artifact removal is targeted), Wave and Jitte (FS players remove their own to pithe opposing jitte, but we can kill the pithe if needed) are better for controlling its creatures. I'm focusing more on artifact destruction in this MU, considering even Serenity to take out chalice@1, moxen and equipment all at once. It's also a bomb against Stax, Enchantress and Affinity. Against chalice@2, I can fetch Engineered Explosives or AoS if EE is pithed. Contingencies, contingencies...

I can also use my own needle on his SoFI. All in all, Pithing Needle, EE, AoS and Serenity should be enough to handle any set of problem artifacts, but I'm considering an extra Seal of Cleansing too, just in case. That would give me up to 5 varied cards for art/ench hate post sideboard - and all of them can be tutored for.

[urdjur]

Having looked at several Legacy decks they all seem to use 4x Chalice of the Void as key sideboard cards. Is this card so desperatly needed? or is it just that it makes everything (especailly high tide) easier?

Short answer: yes. However, not all decks can use it realistically. Many fast aggro decks run so many 1cc cards (threshold and many zoo builds come to mind) that their clock is even more slowed than the combo clock they are trying to beat. I use it against combo, thresh, zoo and burn. Considering the poor game 1 combo MU, it is very needed and quite multi-purpose to boot.


My main thoughts on the deck itself though is its lack of card drawing ability, and (before sideboard) you have almost no Enchantments to survive Cataclysm. Do you thing the FS match would be better if you had Aura of Silence maindeck?

Yes. I made a few MD changes to the toolbox as I pointed out in the WotC thread. I'll update this thread too when I have a more improved build and a better sideboard to go with it.

The lack of enchantments is mainly because there are few good enchantments to run MD. Parallax Wave is the exception, but I typically want Cataclysm as my four drop and have Jitte to tutor for already if I fail that. It deserves a spot in the board though, as an alternative. Keeping two creatures is already sufficiently abusive of Cataclysm, that trying to set it up even more perfectly using enchantments is simply win more. However, the fact that a few silver bullet enchantments (like Rule of Law and AoS) can survive Cataclysm is a useful side effect of the strategy.

I suspected the lack of draw would come up as an argument sooner or later. The short answer is that Cataclysm is not about card quantity but card quality. It's supposed to wreck decks that are about quantity. Even if you go for a creature rush, I think ETutor is better than a card advantage engine like Mask of Memory. If you play MoM you need two connecting attacks to actually get card advantage, and you hope that you get something significant when you draw. With ETutor you can guarantee that you get something powerful the next turn.


I am also happy to see Energy Storm is a deck. It was a card I really liked when Ice Age came out but have not used for ages. I used to use it with Skull of Orm or Boomerang.

Unfortunately, I'm considering cutting it as it helps little against FS. StP (as it turns out, Misdirection usually only comes in if the artifact removal is targeted), Wave and Jitte (FS players remove their own to pithe opposing jitte, but we can kill the pithe if needed) are better for controlling its creatures. I'm focusing more on artifact destruction in this MU, considering even Serenity to take out chalice@1, moxen and equipment all at once. It's also a bomb against Stax, Enchantress and Affinity. Against chalice@2, I can fetch Engineered Explosives or AoS if EE is pithed. Contingencies, contingencies...

I can also use my own needle on his SoFI. All in all, Pithing Needle, EE, AoS and Serenity should be enough to handle any set of problem artifacts, but I'm considering an extra Seal of Cleansing too, just in case. That would give me up to 5 varied cards for art/ench hate post sideboard - and all of them can be tutored for.

[urdjur]

Having looked at several Legacy decks they all seem to use 4x Chalice of the Void as key sideboard cards. Is this card so desperatly needed? or is it just that it makes everything (especailly high tide) easier?

Short answer: yes. However, not all decks can use it realistically. Many fast aggro decks run so many 1cc cards (threshold and many zoo builds come to mind) that their clock is even more slowed than the combo clock they are trying to beat. I use it against combo, thresh, zoo and burn. Considering the poor game 1 combo MU, it is very needed and quite multi-purpose to boot.


My main thoughts on the deck itself though is its lack of card drawing ability, and (before sideboard) you have almost no Enchantments to survive Cataclysm. Do you thing the FS match would be better if you had Aura of Silence maindeck?

Yes. I made a few MD changes to the toolbox as I pointed out in the WotC thread. I'll update this thread too when I have a more improved build and a better sideboard to go with it.

The lack of enchantments is mainly because there are few good enchantments to run MD. Parallax Wave is the exception, but I typically want Cataclysm as my four drop and have Jitte to tutor for already if I fail that. It deserves a spot in the board though, as an alternative. Keeping two creatures is already sufficiently abusive of Cataclysm, that trying to set it up even more perfectly using enchantments is simply win more. However, the fact that a few silver bullet enchantments (like Rule of Law and AoS) can survive Cataclysm is a useful side effect of the strategy.

I suspected the lack of draw would come up as an argument sooner or later. The short answer is that Cataclysm is not about card quantity but card quality. It's supposed to wreck decks that are about quantity. Even if you go for a creature rush, I think ETutor is better than a card advantage engine like Mask of Memory. If you play MoM you need two connecting attacks to actually get card advantage, and you hope that you get something significant when you draw. With ETutor you can guarantee that you get something powerful the next turn.


I am also happy to see Energy Storm is a deck. It was a card I really liked when Ice Age came out but have not used for ages. I used to use it with Skull of Orm or Boomerang.

Unfortunately, I'm considering cutting it as it helps little against FS. StP (as it turns out, Misdirection usually only comes in if the artifact removal is targeted), Wave and Jitte (FS players remove their own to pithe opposing jitte, but we can kill the pithe if needed) are better for controlling its creatures. I'm focusing more on artifact destruction in this MU, considering even Serenity to take out chalice@1, moxen and equipment all at once. It's also a bomb against Stax, Enchantress and Affinity. Against chalice@2, I can fetch Engineered Explosives or AoS if EE is pithed. Contingencies, contingencies...

I can also use my own needle on his SoFI. All in all, Pithing Needle, EE, AoS and Serenity should be enough to handle any set of problem artifacts, but I'm considering an extra Seal of Cleansing too, just in case. That would give me up to 5 varied cards for art/ench hate post sideboard - and all of them can be tutored for.

[urdjur]

With the recent interest in Death and Taxes, I thought it prudent to post the slim-lined EnCat build that I'm working on right now. It has elements from both D&T and AS, but is probably simpler to play. I like it a lot personally, so why not share?

LANDS (22)
22 Plains

CREATURES (24)
4 Isamaru, Hound of Konda
4 Mother of Runes
4 Samurai of the Pale Curtain
4 True Believer
4 Razor Golem
4 Serra Avenger

OTHER SPELLS (14)
4 Cataclysm
4 Enlightened Tutor
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Aura of Silence

SIDEBOARD (15)
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Aura of Silence
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Meekstone
2 Absolute Law
2 Tsabo's Web

[asi]

EE blows up their enabling enchantments or man-lands and you can take your pick with needle on what you prefer to wreck.


Remember, though, that Explosives can't remove manlands, as it says "non-land"-permanents.

[urdjur]

Thanks for pointing that out, I'll edit it.

[largebrandon]

I just don't think the Enlightened Tutor silver bullet scheme is really fast enough to be very effective. I know with mono White Weenie, you go into top-deck mode fast and drawing a Tutor is NOT the best thing to have.

I would suggest scrapping the tutors and the silver bullets, and add 4x Suppression Field and Chrome Mox/Mox Diamond. If you get Field down first turn, then they won't be able to activate their fetch lands until at least turn 3. Besides that, it completely slows down every deck:

Goblins - Fetches, Aether Vial, Incinerator, siege-Gang, Port, Wasteland
Faerie Stompy - Equipment (especially jitte_, any cyclers they have
Fish - Fetches, Equipment, Vedalken shackles

Also, I tried using Aven Mindcensor and it works miraculously.

[Bane of the Living]

Why would this deck be better at abusing Cataclysm than D&T??

Things they have going for them you dont..

1) Flagstones.
Tiv already brought this up but it makes Cataclysm much more lop sided. Your not playing it for Razor Golem? That guy was good in Mirrodin block drafts I guess. I dont know about in the face of the goyf.

2) Aether Vial.
When you clysm your opponent and you should have your resources stifled. Who comes out on top afterwards is often who can drop more threats again. Vial lets you cheat on this one. Besides you'll need to give me a good reason not to run Vial in a deck with 24 creatures, 4 of which are Serra Avenger.

3) Mangara.
Playing Cataclysm leaving yourself with Vial@3 counters, Karakas, and Mangara is game over. Ive seen this happen so many times its not funny. The best part is it comes out of no where. You push vial to 3, drop your 4th land (karakas) and pull the trigger.

I strongly recommend trying Death and Taxes out again if you havent spent much time on it.

[urdjur]

@largebrandon: With 4x chrome mox, yes, you would get into top deck mode a lot faster. With EnCat you typically play 1 spell/turn though, so it takes longer. But yeah, tutor is a bad top deck much like vial, but still synergistic enough to merit inclusion.


Besides that, it completely slows down every deck:

Goblins - Fetches, Aether Vial, Incinerator, siege-Gang, Port, Wasteland
Faerie Stompy - Equipment (especially jitte_, any cyclers they have
Fish - Fetches, Equipment, Vedalken shackles

Hm, yah, field might be good. Do you think it's strong enough that you'd want to tutor for it in any of those MUs?


Why would this deck be better at abusing Cataclysm than D&T??

It might not be. D&T was still pretty unheard of when I started toying with the deck in the beginning of 2007. But it abuses clysm from another angle than D&T. Many of D&Ts tricks wouldn't work here:


1) Flagstones.
Tiv already brought this up but it makes Cataclysm much more lop sided. Your not playing it for Razor Golem? That guy was good in Mirrodin block drafts I guess. I dont know about in the face of the goyf.

You answer this yourself of course - yes, it's for golem. And the tutors make it possible to almost guarantee t3 golem - cataclysm or no cataclysm. It has worked incredibly well for me. True, he doesn't kill a big goyf but he kills mongeese, goblins and many other neat things. I have StP, Jitte and clysm for what I can't handle with creatures (much like D&T really). Also, I can make do very well with 1-2 mana after clysm.


2) Aether Vial.
When you clysm your opponent and you should have your resources stifled. Who comes out on top afterwards is often who can drop more threats again. Vial lets you cheat on this one. Besides you'll need to give me a good reason not to run Vial in a deck with 24 creatures, 4 of which are Serra Avenger.

Since you asked for a good reason, I'll give you the detailed explanation. Vial helps you rebuild your board, true. This is integral to D&Ts clysm strategy - they ideally want to bounce stuff back and forth with Karakas and Vial to avoid losses in the clysm.

This deck doesn't use legends and karakas, and so is "stuck" with whatever hits the board. With a turn 4 Cataclysm, we ideally only want to play 2 non-land permanents before clysm. If one of them is Aether Vial, you can only play 1 creature turns 1-3. If the artifact is itself a 3/4 vigilant threat, you put less pressure on the other threat.

So, you may retort, that with Vial I could just flood the board anyway, and keep sending stuff out after Cataclysm since I still have vial and a threat. The problem is, this leads to emptying your hand. The scenario requires 4 lands, 1 cataclysm, 1 vial and 1 threat, or 7 of the 10 cards you'll draw by turn 4. But in order to not get behind turns 1-3, you need more than vial and creature, so that's at least 2 more cards. That may leave you 1 threat left to vial out after clysm, which puts you at EnCats 2 creatures (which it already does without vial).

To run Vial in a clysm deck, you actually need many non-creature spells for turns 1-3 (which in turn doesn't work well with vial) or ways to bounce the threats you poor out. D&T has both of these - EnCat has neither. The problem with D&T of course is that it has so many parts that must come together to abuse clysm - the vial, the karakas, the legends. I only need a 2-drop and a 3-drop - the abuse is probably not as extreme, but it is more certain.


3) Mangara.
Playing Cataclysm leaving yourself with Vial@3 counters, Karakas, and Mangara is game over. Ive seen this happen so many times its not funny. The best part is it comes out of no where. You push vial to 3, drop your 4th land (karakas) and pull the trigger.

That's overkill in my experience. If a deck is wrecked by Cataclysm, it's usually all you need. Sure, you need to come out of it more favorably, but it's not hard if you plan your deck around it.

Mangara+Vial+Karakas is probably also GG for many of the decks that fall to clysm. But it's more fragile since it relies on three permanents rather than 1 non-permanent. You should absolutely run Cataclysm in a deck with vial, karakas and legends though - it's just not needed in addition to those three if you manage to keep them all on the table.


I strongly recommend trying Death and Taxes out again if you havent spent much time on it.

D&T is a fine deck, and I'm looking forward to more finalized lists as it develops. It has placed well and is competitive in the right hands and meta. It's a bit too much guesswork for my taste though. In the D&T thread, I noticed that many reported (almost with a tone of surprise) also being successful with D&T on draws when it mostly played like more normal white weenie, and they could resolve something significant like cataclysm or jitte to seal the deal. Others said they were trying to clear the deck of cute tricks and make it more focused etc. I thought bumping this thread could be good for those interested in a simpler approach to an aggressive, mono-white cataclysm build.