Dredge timing

[Mulletus]

Ok lets say someone wants to dredge. They announce they are going to dredge.... can I respond with some instant graveyard removal of their target? If so do they still mill the cards and not draw?

[Nihil Credo]

Dredge is a replacement effect. That means that during the resolution of whatever makes them draw a card, they can choose instead to dredge back their Darkblast.

You can play instant graveyard removal during their upkeep (to prevent them from dredging instead of drawing for the turn), or in response to a draw ability, like cycling a Lonely Sandbar. It will still be before they choose whether to draw or dredge, though, so if the Darkblast isn't there anymore they'll just draw a card as normal.

[Happy Gilmore]

Ok lets say someone wants to dredge. They announce they are going to dredge.... can I respond with some instant graveyard removal of their target? If so do they still mill the cards and not draw?

No, you cannot respond to the announcement of Dredge. As stated above Dredge is a replacement affect and does not go on the stack. Layline of the Void is good example of this, the removal of cards is a replacement effect and never goes on the stack. If you had an instant flashback spell you would never get priority before it was removed.
I am not sure if that made it more or less confusing.:confused:

[Ewokslayer]

No, you cannot respond to the announcement of Dredge. As stated above Dredge is a replacement affect and does not go on the stack. Planar Void is good example of this, the removal of cards is a replacement effect and never goes on the stack. If you had an instant flashback spell you would never get priority before it was removed.
I am not sure if that made it more or less confusing.:confused:

Planar Void is a horrible example of a replacement effect since it isn't one.
Planar Void is a triggered ability.

However, Dredge is a replacement effect. Its use happens as the draw is going to happen, so you can respond to whatever would make the player draw a card but you can't respond to them telling you that they are going to dredge instead of drawing.

[iOWN]

Planar Void is a horrible example of a replacement effect since it isn't one.
Planar Void is a triggered ability.

He probably means Leyline of the Void.

[Happy Gilmore]

He probably means Leyline of the Void.


Funny enough, I had Layline of the Void in there and then replaced it thinking a symetrical effect would help me make it more clear. It didn't occur to me that they were worded differently.

[Mulletus]

So the draw uses the stack right? I mean I don't want to limit my question to the draw phase's card draw. Spells and abilities have draw attached.

- Like lets say they cycle, does priority pass to me in a way that lets me remove Loam before they get the option to replace the draw with a dredge?

- Now what your saying is, if I pass on my chance to repond to the spell or ability which allows a draw.... I have no chance to remove any dredge cards?

- What about spells like charms, where you have multiple options. Like lets one of three options on a card is draw. Do I have to respond to the entire spell, or can I wait to see what choice they make, and if draw a card is the choice.... remove a dredge card before they choose to draw or dredge.

[Cait_Sith]

- Like lets say they cycle, does priority pass to me in a way that lets me remove Loam before they get the option to replace the draw with a dredge?


Yes. Before the draw resolves for the cycle they must pass the stack.



- Now what your saying is, if I pass on my chance to respond to the spell or ability which allows a draw.... I have no chance to remove any dredge cards?


Except for the first draw of the draw phase, you will have a chance because almost every ability requires the stack. Anything that goes on the stack lets you have a response to it.



- What about spells like charms, where you have multiple options. Like lets one of three options on a card is draw. Do I have to respond to the entire spell, or can I wait to see what choice they make, and if draw a card is the choice.... remove a dredge card before they choose to draw or dredge.

For modal spells the mode is chosen as part of announcement. You will know if they want to draw before you get your chance to response.

Remember, once the draw spell/ability starts resolving it is too late to do anything about them deciding to dredge or not. Dredge is a replacement effect and so the choice for dredge only comes when the event occurs, not before.

[Happy Gilmore]

So the draw uses the stack right? I mean I don't want to limit my question to the draw phase's card draw. Spells and abilities have draw attached.

- Like lets say they cycle, does priority pass to me in a way that lets me remove Loam before they get the option to replace the draw with a dredge?

- Now what your saying is, if I pass on my chance to repond to the spell or ability which allows a draw.... I have no chance to remove any dredge cards?

- What about spells like charms, where you have multiple options. Like lets one of three options on a card is draw. Do I have to respond to the entire spell, or can I wait to see what choice they make, and if draw a card is the choice.... remove a dredge card before they choose to draw or dredge.

no, it doesn't work like that. In reference to a draw clause on a card it works something like this, take brainstorm for example:

you cast Brainstorm with a dredge card in the GY. (You,the opponent, passes priority)
The player then chooses to replace the first draw with the dredge card, dredging 5 cards (one of them a Lftl)
The player can then use the second draw to dredge the Lftl.
If a third drege card apears he can dredge that for his third draw.
Then the player would put two cards back on top of the library.

Since dredge is a replacement effect and does not use the stack you can use it multiple times durring the resolution of a spell even if there is only one dredge card at the time the spell was played.

In other words you have to respond to the spell. If Tranquil Thicket is cycled for instance you get a chance to respond to it like normal, but if you pass priority the opponent then has the ablility to replace the draw.

[Ewokslayer]

Once the draw has been replaced the cycling ability for Tranquil Thicket resolves and Tranquil Thicket is put into the GY on top of the cards that were just dredged.

Tranquil Thicket will be on the bottom of the stack of cards dredged because it is discarded and placed in the graveyard as part of using the cycling ability.

[Happy Gilmore]

Tranquil Thicket will be on the bottom of the stack of cards dredged because it is discarded and placed in the graveyard as part of using the cycling ability.

Right, my bad.