[Deck] Legacy Keeper

[jamp07]

Theres a thread on other forum about this deck here (http://www.starcitygames.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=300841) it also has proven to be competitive, finish 2nd on a tornament (http://www.starcitygames.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=298578)

This was my Reply in case theres a guy with an improvement about this deck and dosent visit that forum:


// NAME: Legacy Keeper
// Lands
3 [ON] Flooded Strand
3 [TSP] Forest (1)
2 [TSP] Island (1)
2 [TSP] Plains (1)
2 [R] Savannah
2 [b] Tropical Island
3 [R] Tundra
2 [ON] Windswept Heath
1 [JU] Nantuko Monastery
1 [FS] Horizon Canopy

// Creatures
4 [PS] Sunscape Familiar
2 [RAV] Loxodon Hierarch
3 [PS] Meddling Mage
2 [TE] Tradewind Rider
2 [DIS] Grand Arbiter Augustin IV

// Spells
1 [SC] Decree of Justice
4 [IN] Fact or Fiction
4 [AL] Force of Will
3 [JU] Living Wish
2 [JU] Mirari's Wake
2 [TE] Propaganda
4 [R] Regrowth
3 [AT] Swords to Plowshares
2 [LG] Sylvan Library
1 [TSP] Krosan Grip

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [JU] Nantuko Monastery
SB: 1 [RAV] Loxodon Hierarch
SB: 1 [PS] Meddling Mage
SB: 1 [TE] Tradewind Rider
SB: 1 [AT] Swords to Plowshares
SB: 2 [FD] Engineered Explosives
SB: 1 [LG] The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
SB: 2 [TSP] Harmonic Sliver
SB: 1 [OV] City of Brass
SB: 2 [6E] Serenity
SB: 2 [IN] Mana Maze


I used to play the keeper on vintage on the days that it could handle the format. I tried later to bring it up to legacy. I first used the blue wish, but without acelerators it was slow and was overuned by almost any agro deck.

Then I tried the red wish and didnt had much success. I tested this version with the green wish and its a keeper deck for sure, it needs a player with skill to run it and know what to look for.

The strongest card as it may be noticed is the Sunscape Familiar, boy that card makes your green and blue spells more reacheable, and very few cards dont take advantage from the -1 spells cost, but its a very good replacement of the vintages moxes. Been able to play a Regrowth and living wish for a G is just very good.

Not to mention you can play a fact of fiction for 2U, the card is already on the edge of brokenes and now you play it on turn 3 is just a really nice boost. You may think that is not very good because there could be 2 key spells for the match up and one of them is going to end on the yard, thats not a problem since you can have it by paying G with a regrowth.
The loxodon hirearch is a 4/4 for 1GW and gain 4 life is also a very nice adition.

Since the format runs a lot of creature removal getting this wall out of the game destroys the supper scheme described above. But the wall is not alone, Grand Arbiter Agustin 4 is there to help the decks evil scheme, it may not be as fast as the wall, but 6 spells that do the same is better than 4.

The deck seems to run few blue spells for the FOWS, but I had not encounter problems with it, I used to run decks with fewer than 16.

The tradewind rider is an interesting option, you can destroy every enchantment or artifact with the harmonic, gain tons of life, just to name a few examples. You can also return some key permanents of the oponent, like the creature in a reanimation deck, the propaganda that dosent let your army run over the oponent, the aether vial.

The miraris wake, a card that players like but havent found a good deck to run it, well it runs perfectly fine here.

Propaganda is a very nice card against most agro decks out there, and its also a food card for the FOW if the oponent has a non agro deck.

Well, those are a few things I saw about the deck.

[Cavius The Great]

Isn't the original Keeper creatureless?

[MattH]

Isn't the original Keeper creatureless?

No, it ran 2 Serra Angel, then added a Gorilla Shaman. Maybe it went creatureless at some point after Weatherlight (kill via Gaea's Blessing, to deck, possibly in conjunction with Tormod's Crypt/Timetwiser/Regrowth) but Saga gave it Morphlings, which stayed with Shaman until Onslaught (Exalted Angel) and eventually Scourge's Decree of Justice.

AFAIK those are the only creatures ever widely used in Keeper decks, from inception up until GAT remade T1 in its own image.

[Khepri]

I'm testing the deck... it is great! I really love how it controls the match (Wake+Decree is a really strong combination). I only have some doubts about Loxodon Hierarch... it is a good creature but is it the best one that you can play in this deck?

[Mirrislegend]

I'm surprised this doesnt autofold to Goblins or Solidarity. Sure, if this deck gets on its feet, it can be a contender, but those two Tier One decks are Tier 1 BECAUSE they steamroll you before you get all settled. Not to mention that you're screwed vs Hulk Flash

[Happy Gilmore]

After running up against decks in block that run Aeon Chronicler I would be very tempted to create a control deck that can use it. I found out that you can suspend it as an instant which is incredible.

[Nihil Credo]

You can only suspend Aeon Chronicler (or any other Suspend creature) as an instant if you can play it any time you could play an instant... that is, if you have Teferi in play. On its own, you will have to suspend Aeon Chronicler during your main phase, with an empty stack, as usual.

[Arrowni]

Creator of the deck here. The current build holds his own better against Solidarity and is actually pretty good against goblins. That is partly because barring the most spectacular hands, goblins can barely hold their own against propaganda, 4 + STPs and The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale combined. My deck having a three defense blocker doesn't help the matters for them.

About the Loxodon's as a part of the deck, I initially had them as wish targets but I found myself looking for them quite a lot. They have enough size to put down Mongooses, they also win you life in matches such as Burn. Additionally the come into play clause has been useful in combination with Tradewind Rider and the multiple regeneration effect has won me games against Wildfires.

There is still lots of tunning to do in the deck, but current builds do good against lots of stuff. The deck can claim a lot of games from Hulk due versatility, playing several mages and FoW, more changes can be added at the sb to push the match in your favor. Also, this deck kills way faster than standstill due its aggro components, I have been able to race Faerie Stompy several times due life gain, bigger bodies and artifact removal. I appreciate if more people would chime in and help with the build, I'm openly looking for suggestions.

[Cavius The Great]

No, it ran 2 Serra Angel, then added a Gorilla Shaman. Maybe it went creatureless at some point after Weatherlight (kill via Gaea's Blessing, to deck, possibly in conjunction with Tormod's Crypt/Timetwiser/Regrowth) but Saga gave it Morphlings, which stayed with Shaman until Onslaught (Exalted Angel) and eventually Scourge's Decree of Justice.

AFAIK those are the only creatures ever widely used in Keeper decks, from inception up until GAT remade T1 in its own image.

I knew they ran some, but more close to none than anything. I know Keeper ran "some" creatures but nothing like 20+ which this list displays.

[Arrowni]

Different formats ask for different answers, Vintage is for the most, a creatureless format. I call this deck keeper because its based in a silver bullet, massive drawing, tutoring strategy just like the original one was. Note that the creatures in the deck all sport controlling abilities that can be found to a lesser degree in non-creature spells. My choice of these creatures is a lot like the Monkeys ran in The Deck, versatility over other cards that do the same.

So you can either discuss semantics or pitch in with ideas, play the deck and a Vintage version and you will see the similar feeling, then come back and help build the deck.

[Meekrab]

Have you tried Brainstorm, and if so, why is it no longer in the deck?

Is that mana base working out? It looks strange with all the 2's and 3's, and I can't help thinking 21 lands isn't enough when you don't draw a Sunscape, since your only affordable deck manipulation is Sylvan Library.

[frogboy]

Why do you have 21 land and ten four drops?

[Arrowni]

Two natural observations that I had to answer myself. Brainstormis a curious card in the deck because I never managed to capitalize its effect much, I always felt that it did very little in the card adventage/board fronts in which I focused. My card selection comes from Regrowth and Living Wish that more often than not switch targets depending on the state of the game, this means that digging faster to use those is not necessarily a strong play. Think about it: Regrowth is a card that you play after an effect, which means digging it with brainstorm may be irrelevant. Also without involving fetchlands its interaction with Sylvan Library and Fact or Fiction (both after being digged with BS) is rather frustrating. The top reason to me is that there are decks in which you want to run the least number of cards possible (such as those who love Street Wraith) and those who instead fill the slots with powerful cards, my style of keeper is the second. I don't aim for redundancy, I aim for overall card power. Not that it cannot be squeezed in, I just feel that the Agustins help you in the combo matchup, and the propagandas in the goblin one than what the brainstorms can wish to do in each one of those.

Now, the land issue is a whole different beast, I agree that the deck can boost its land count up to 23, but right now I don't run into land issues often. Regrowths double as lands thanks to the fetchlands and I often use them to that end, the same happens to Living Wish, that boosts my land count a little to be able to work. The high curve is something that doesn't make me very happy at this point, the issue is that the 4cc creatures serve different proposes. If I was to play in a tournament I would probably leave the Riders out and play only the Agustins that have proved themselves against combo, the Riders are great since they block flyings and play good defense, but its not reliable to play that many 4cc creatures and I have resented that. The niche of Agustin is being a combo defense that doesn't die to massacre, the Rider works against several threats but depends of other factors.

[Arrowni]

Since the Hulk deck is now a reality to GP Columbus I decided to chime in with an update of my deck aimed to take it down:


This is my current anti-hulk version, no Child of Koils yet:




// Deck file for Magic Workstation (http://www.magicworkstation.com)
// NAME: Legacy Keeper

// Lands
3 [ON] Flooded Strand
3 [TSP] Forest (1)
2 [TSP] Island (1)
1 [TSP] Plains (1)
1 [R] Savannah
2 [B] Tropical Island
2 [R] Tundra
2 [ON] Windswept Heath
1 [JU] Nantuko Monastery
2 [5E] Adarkar Wastes
2 [7E] Brushland

// Creatures
4 [PS] Sunscape Familiar
2 [RAV] Loxodon Hierarch
3 [PS] Meddling Mage
1 [TE] Tradewind Rider
1 [FD] Eternal Witness

// Spells
4 [IN] Fact or Fiction
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [JU] Living Wish
2 [JU] Mirari's Wake
2 [TSP] Trickbind
4 [R] Regrowth
3 [AT] Swords to Plowshares
2 [LG] Sylvan Library
2 [TSP] Krosan Grip
1 [R] Wrath of God
2 [PR] Stifle

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [JU] Nantuko Monastery
SB: 1 [RAV] Loxodon Hierarch
SB: 1 [PS] Meddling Mage
SB: 1 [AT] Swords to Plowshares
SB: 2 [R] Wrath of God
SB: 1 [LG] The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
SB: 2 [TSP] Harmonic Sliver
SB: 3 [MR] Chalice of the Void
SB: 3 [DIS] Loaming Shaman


The deck has not given up his control matchs that are the most likely to stick in a hulk meta, I gave up some power in the aggro matchs, but then again, I just wanted to chime in through this anti-Hulk rain. My mana base is currently low in plains as to fight Massacres and force the opponent to spend mana on getting rid of my mages. Trickbind is relatively slow but it reduces its cost under Sunscape Familiar and you can play it after it on turn three.

Regrowths may be affected by the side graveyard hate of the meta as well as the Nantuko Monasteries, you can consider lowering their counts to slip more hate in or more responses to said hate. You still run Harmonic in the side against those, so I don't feel that just giving up in a card you don't rely on (Regrowth) is entirely in order, but thats more of a personal count.

[Cavius The Great]

Why are you running painlands?

[Arrowni]

It goes as a tech -rather drastical- to evade massacre against combo decks and no, its not a great fix in the deck all in all, just one of the many modifications I made to boost the combo match of the deck.

I would not go as to suggest to make this a permanent move, but since I've heard from people "white creatures are not the solution because of massacre", well, not every white land is a plains and I wanted to show just that. In a three colored deck may be a little drastical, but I hope WW tries the idea.

[Cavius The Great]

But you're still running dual lands. That doesn't make any sense.

[Arrowni]

The reason and problem of that was that I'm running Sylvan library and that I use painlainds to shuffle and to mana fix; if I ran no plains at all they would not be able to fix that color and I would neuter them quite a bit, but yeah, the single plains and the plains dual should go. I also need to run other lands that don't deal damage to me so digging white doesn't become ridiculously painful Take those things into consideration and you will that the mana base is still very preliminar in this aspect -I should probably run karakas or any untapped white mana non-basic, but at the time of this list I was not taking such thing into consideration.

Its arguable which would be the best non basic mana base, but I'll be trying to test that soon.

[Cavius The Great]

Then this is what your manabase should look like. Take not that I upped the land count to 22 becuase 21 seems too low. I'd probably take out your highest casting cost spell in replacement. Here's the suggested manabase.

2 Flooded Strand
2 Windswept Heath
2 Island
2 Forest
4 Adarkar Wastes
4 Yavimaya Coast
4 Brushland
1 Treva's Ruins
1 Nantuko Monastery

That's basically what I propose as a Massacre proof manabase. I hope you find it to your liking.

I also would try to fit Mox Diamond in the deck somehow to discard unneeded fetch lands and lands returned from Treva's Ruins. 2-3 sounds about right. I really like this deck idea. If you can tweak this thing to near perfection I can see it being a contender.

[Arrowni]

I also have wanted to run mox diamonds for a while, but the problem was the afore mentioned low land count. I want to hit as much business spell as the next guy, which means keeping the mana count low.

Since the deck plays control it has some answers that are dead cards at times, but thanks to Living Wish and others, the count of dead cards in the deck is remarkably low which I see as one of my great advantages. Of course I need mana to pull some of the answers, the obvious one to replace in the nonbasic mana base is Wrath or one grip, depending in the meta call -and consider to bring back propaganda instead of wrath anyways, double white is a pain with such base.