PDA

View Full Version : Caboose runs tables at GPT: Pittsburgh (First/Second Split)



Caboose
05-06-2007, 01:59 AM
Hey everyone!

My team (Jacob, Eric, and Richard), make the 3.5 hour drive to Pittsburgh for the Trial. When we arrive, I greet Paul Mastriano (Creator of Type 4), and Zohar Bhagat (another dear friend of mine). After registrations are turned in, we are told we only have 36 people, and the prizes would have doubled at 37. After nearly assaulting a judge (and getting a lifetime DCI ban), I calm down and remind myself to boycott the next PES event (SCREW PROFESSIONAL EVENTS SERVICES!!). I can't believe they didn't tell us we were one short. We could have each thrown a dollar at a guy on the street, let him pay for his entry (and make $11 profit), and have him immediately drop. The fact that PES didn't tell us about being one guy short is rediculous.

So round one is posted, and here we go!

Round 1 - 4c Landstill AKA BHWC Landstill

I simply cannot beat Landstill with my Threshold list. I always put up a valiant fight, but I don't think I've ever beat them in a tournament. They have answers to EVERYTHING! Anyways, I drop good cards, he deals with them, while keeping insanely better CA. /lose

0-1

Round 2 - UGR Threshold (w/ Counterbalance & Top)

Are you serious? COUNTERBALANCE AND TOP ARE TERRIBLE IN LEGACY. DON'T PLAY THIS SHIZ!! I own him game one, and bring in Jotun Grunts game two and wreck him. Easy win.

1-1

Round 3 - Homebrew Combo (Griffin Canyon shenanigans)

I really admire my opponent's originality. He was really nice, and was having a great time playing his rogue combo deck, even though it's not that great. I easily wrecked him, but he did some cool stuff, and he gets props.

2-1

Round 4 - Faerie Stompy

Wow. These were some hardcore games. All I know is, he played Chalice for ONE AND TWO game two and I still won the match 2-0. Krosan Gripping his Crypt while having 3 Mages naming Efreet, Drake, and Jitte is good, I hear. He also forgets to draw from his SoFaI twice game 2, and when he calls a judge, he gets a warning. Poor guy.

3-1

Round 5 - Hulk Flash

I've been testing against Hulk Flash a lot lately, and I own it with Threshold. Post FS, only Fish can beat it, but for now, Thresh owns it quite well. I ask a teammate what he's playing before the match starts, and although he doesn't hear me and tells me to "Stomp him", I interpret this as "Stompy". Thinking I'm playing some 9-land Stompy jank, I keep a hand with two StP and a Mongoose. I lose the first game handily.

After I realize what he's playing, I own him, but not before he drops THREE MASSACRE IN ONE TURN. I managed to counter the first two, but a third came, and I could hear the angels singing behind him. Irrelevant though, I still won.

4-1

Round 6 - ID

It was funny. The guy I beat in Round 5 was asking his friend to beat me Round 6 so he could T8. Problem is, he signed the match slip as a draw, and I windmill slam it in the box before he can change his mind.

4-1-1

Top 8 - Hulk Flash

I get matched up against my friend Zohar. Since I'm letting him stay at my house for the GP, and he already has two byes, he gladly scoops to me. But we play a fake match to appease the judges. He even let me showboat the victory :)

Top 4 - Counterslivers AKA Meathooks

Dammit! I have to play my teammate Richard. I consider scooping to him, because I feel like he has a better matchup vs the winner of the other game (Goblins vs Landstill). However, the Byes are calling to me, and I can't resist them. I shuffle up against my friend and get ready for battle. I get early tempo both games and get pretty lucky with my topdecks (I had two guys out, no cards in hand, and 4 cards in my graveyard. I call a Mental Note off the top. Wins!!). I also Stifled my Jotun Grunt's upkeep two turns in a row to win game two.

Finals - Goblins

Here's the story. In the Top 8 match, this kid mislead the game state and caused my teammate to lose the match. It got so heated, that a brawl almost broke out. Literally. Instead of throwing punches, we make fun of his height for a little while (He was like 5'2" 120 lbs). I made such hilarious comments as "I didn't know they cheated in the Shire" and "If you need help destroying the ring, let me know." I made at least a hundred Hobbit jokes in rapid succession.

Anyways, the judges were terrible, and the tension was crazy there, so I decided to split with the kid. I would have crushed him though. His deck was garbage. He had questionable Ringleader flips all day, and he would have obviously cheated his way to victory. He wants the Byes, and since neither him nor I are going to win the GP, I give him the Byes and take all his product.

So I split for first place and win a box and a half. 54 boosters is insane! But still, if we had that 37th person, I would have won like 3 boxes, lol.

PROPS:
- Paul Mastriano, for being the most awesome dude ever.
- Team Lucksack, because we came *this* close to putting 4 out of 5 guys in the top 8, and we really should have put three guys in the top 4. Oh well, sometimes you get cheated against.
- Car rides, because they're absolutely hilarious.
- Meddling Mage, for earning the right to be in Threshold. I loved-ed you Pikula!!
- The store owner, for being honestly the nicest guy I think I've ever met.
- Zohar, for scooping to me, and for reminding me that Predict is the greatest card EVER against Hulk Flash.

SLOPS:
- The judges, because they knew nothing about Magic: the Gathering.
- The punk kid playing Goblins. Cool, you got three byes. Enjoy your 3-6 record at the GP.
- Pittsburgh, for being further away that I thought


LIST:
4 Tundra
4 Tropical Island
4 Flooded Strand
3 Polluted Delta
2 Island
1 Plains

4 Nimble Mongoose
4 Werebear
4 Meddling Mage
1 Mystic Enforcer

4 Force of Will
3 Counterspell
3 Daze
3 Stifle
4 Brainstorm
4 Serum Visions
4 Mental Note
4 Swords to Plowshares

SB:
4 Hydroblast
3 Tivadar's Crusade
3 Jotun Grunt
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Krosan Grip
1 Mystic Enforcer


Anyways, I'm very glad with how Threshold performed. It kept the streak of Top 8's alive (I've never taken Thresh to a tourney and not Top 8'd). I think I'm going to take Zohar's advice and test the Predicts out. They own Hulk Flash's face even more!

TheInfamousBearAssassin
05-06-2007, 02:47 AM
...we are told we only have 36 people, and the prizes would have doubled at 37. After nearly assaulting a judge (and getting a lifetime DCI ban), I calm down and remind myself to boycott the next PES event (SCREW PROFESSIONAL EVENTS SERVICES!!)...

...It was funny. The guy I beat in Round 5 was asking his friend to beat me Round 6 so he could T8. Problem is, he signed the match slip as a draw, and I windmill slam it in the box before he can change his mind...

...It got so heated, that a brawl almost broke out. Literally. Instead of throwing punches, we make fun of his height for a little while (He was like 5'2" 120 lbs). I made such hilarious comments as "I didn't know they cheated in the Shire" and "If you need help destroying the ring, let me know." I made at least a hundred Hobbit jokes in rapid succession...


Dude, were you not hugged enough as a kid or something? This is coming from someone who jumps tables, but seriously, chill the Hell out.

That being said, I'm curious what the other Flash deck lost to. How much hate was going around? Your list certainly seems tooled against it.

Citrus-God
05-06-2007, 02:52 AM
I was curious what Mastriano played at the event, or could he have been there to judge at the event instead?

Caboose
05-06-2007, 02:58 AM
Mastriano played Flash. Also, my Thresh list hasn't changed in like two months. I figured Mage + Counters would be enough, and it was.

@ IBA: It was just a stressful day. Eight hours of driving, kids being tools, judges being tools, etc. You have no idea how close that store came to an all-out brawl, by the way. Besides, aren't you banned from the DCI for fighting?

Zach Tartell
05-06-2007, 03:06 AM
I love the mainboarded stifles. I really think they make the deck better.

TheInfamousBearAssassin
05-06-2007, 03:09 AM
No.

It was attempted fighting. To be fair, he actually physically slapped me. Also, I had just lost my job that week.

I'm curious if anyone was playing the controlling versions with the Kiki kill, or if it was all Disciple. Stifle + Mage + Daze + Force seems like it gives you enough hate against the fast version, but the slow version might just roll you.

Caboose
05-06-2007, 03:11 AM
I love the mainboarded stifles. I really think they make the deck better.

Are you being serial? Because a lot of people hate them, but I love them. It's Sinkhole for one blue. And it's nice countering some Storm shiz. There's always something relevant to Stifle, and if there isn't, side them out.

@IBA: Paul Mastriano (Cot4) played the Kiki version, but didn't make the top 8. Zohar and another guy got in playing slow versions, and I rolled them. Granted, Massacre is some hot tech against me, but Stifle is just so damn good.

TheInfamousBearAssassin
05-06-2007, 03:24 AM
Stifle should be an automatic inclusion in a Flash-Hulk metagame. Needle is essentially obsolete.

Citrus-God
05-06-2007, 04:44 AM
@IBA: Paul Mastriano (Cot4) played the Kiki version, but didn't make the top 8. Zohar and another guy got in playing slow versions, and I rolled them. Granted, Massacre is some hot tech against me, but Stifle is just so damn good.

I figured he would play something like Flash.

GThompson
05-06-2007, 07:03 AM
Actually what really happened was your teammate stacks damage and the Goblin player sacks a guy to Prospector. Your teammate wanted him to use his mana, so he said he wanted to pass priority, indicating that damage resolved. His Mongrel died and then he called a judge. The judge asked if he wanted to pass priority with damage on the stack, your teammate again said hed like to pass. His Mongrel died again.

The judge let him go back (which shouldnt happen), and your teammate still punted it. Perhaps you should learn how the game works. With you saying "untap, upkeep, draw" everyturn, I would assume that you knew the phases of the game but I guess not.

Deger
05-06-2007, 10:28 AM
I played against 2 of the hulk flash decks 1 which top 8'd -- The one the slivers guy beat. It was really pretty standard and ran lim duls vault.. I lost to that one. The 2nd I don't know if he had stifles because they would not really help much against my deck... Yeah paul ran the kiki jiki version which I think is better but that's opinion... (please No Flaming)..
I saw all the stuff that went down with the goblin kid and the Ninja Fish guy. (I loved his deck Ninja's are cool)...

This was my take on the whole thing. The whole situation was a confussing mess for both players both judges and everyone else and even me (I was there for most of the match) and that is one reason I did not jump in. But it was a game altering whatever.. the goblin player I think just used timing (not game timing but real timing) to throw the mongrel player off. THe mongrel player started to pitch the card and the goblin play went to accept that then hesitated and called the judge and again threw the mongrel player off and when the judge came over it just got worse. and more confusing.. 2 judged actually got involved the first one is an okay judge for simple rulings but anything complex he is not that great. (I have seen many rulings by this judge that were wrong and had higher level judges make the correct calling) but the head judge of the event actually made the ruling and I think the situation was confusing for him also. What I think that every time anyone opened their mouth the mongrel player and the judge got more and more confussed and it caused the mongrel player to maybe not really understand what the judge was asking him. and once his team mates started saying what they saw (and I can only say I saw Eric watching the game not Caboose but that is not to say you weren't there watching I just did not see you dude i was watching the game) it just got worse. From what I saw I thought the ruling was not going to go the way it did. and I think Judge Frank Did a good job in trying to figure out the mess but I think the in all the cases the Mongrel player was just very confussed and that threw him off and then maybe he did not represent his case as well as he could have. But I will say this that ruling might have effected the whole outcome of the tourney.. The mongrel player could have lost the key 3rd game but maybe he would have won and had to play landstill..
What was really jacked was all the crap afterwards. All the rest of you guys started getting loud and arguing and calling the goblin kid names after he won and Caboose you were still in the tourney.. And you guys were so loud you were disturbing the games that were still out. I give props to the guy who got kinda screwed by the whole thing because I don't recall him getting as fired-up he seemed to realize it was jacked and whatever but he displayed good sportsmanship for the rest of the time he was there. (as far as I saw). But really you didn't have to start all the name calling and all the arguing espically with the judges. I'm not saying the judge was right or wrong but either way that was the ruling and it was final and that's that. and nothing you do or say is going to change it. Even if you were pissed you shouldn't have gotten as fired up as you and some of the other people there did.

Now for my take on the tourney..

I played Wildfire Stax and went 4-2
I lost round 1 to Storm Combo but I made a key mistake in game 2 and since I beat him pretty quick in game one with a 3rd turn Covetous Dragon I misboarded and it cost me game 3 when he burningwished and got all IGGY POP ON MY ASS but Ryan is a cool cat I met at the FS prerelease 2 weeks before and we split a draft and he was not playing a FLash deck.

Round 2 was against Jeremiah playing Bolts. I played him and his deck in november (I was Playing ATS) and he owned me. game one went 2nd turn 3sphere and then 2 mishra's factory's ended the game. Game 2 the 3sphere came down 2nd turn again and he scooped.. He plays like no land in the deck and was stuck at 1 in both games.. I almost chaliced at 1 but I figured what was the point with him at one land. He is a nice kid and I did not want to kick his teeth in.

Round 3 was against Farie Stompy (eric cabooses team mate)
I love this deck. I love serendib efreet he is my most favorite creature and has won so many games for me a long time ago..

I got out a fast smoke stack but did not ramp it. arc slogger came in pretty quick then once the dragon hit it was Game. I give him mad props for throwing out perms pretty fast after the stack came down he would have won out when the perms started going away

Game 2 I keep an ass hand and he pounds me hard I think the serendib came down turn 1 and a drake turn 3. I should have pitched that hand I knew it from the start.

Game 3 I get some wasatelands and a chalice at 0 and beat him with I think the mishra because he mentioned a bunch of force of wills dead in his hand at the end of the came.

Round 4 HulkFlash (he got Top 8 and lost to slivers)
I just lost both games..

Round 5 Bill playing Goblins
I met this cat in november playing afffinity he was cool. He informes me after we draw in game one that my card sleeves are different shades of green and wonders why I would do that. I have no clue what he is talking about and look.. O-shit. I had no clue really.. He doesn't care and we play.
(I actually relseved my deck that morning because my black ones were so beat I did not want any trouble)

He plays a turn 1 vial I play a turn 1 3sphere and realize I jacked myself. and I loose.

The next game I stabalize at like 10 life with waste lock for the ports. and mishra to keep me alive then 2 dragons

and game three I get a 3rd turn Aether flash out and then Chalice at 3 and the Arc slogger comes in with a mishra after I wildfire him out...

I immeadetly go buy new sleeves with like no time left in the round and he and ryan from round 1 help me resleeve the deck.. I AM NOT A CHEATER just maybe a dumbass for not noticing the sleeve thing..

round 6 Matt playing HulkFlash.

he duresses me and sees a hand with 2 dragons and some other stuff I can't remember what he takes a chalice I think. he coments on my needing a ton of mana. I think I top another chalice and drop it at 1 then I think I drop a 3 spehere waste some lands and drop 2 dragons on him..

Game 2 I have this game until I forget to ramp my stax and move into my draw. Crap oh well. I loose when he combos off. Had I put the soot counter on 1 turn earlier I would have had that game..

Game 3 sees a Chalice at 2 and a dragon he has to tudor chain his combo but I beat him before he can go off

maybe I got lucky... I probably did..

I think my deck was pretty strong and I have no complaints except one game where i Needed a chalice or a win condition and I got ass...

I don't have a lot of experience playing against storm combo and had no experience against Flash but I knew the deck..

in a Flash free Meta I think the wildfire Stax is good stuff and I really had no problems with it all day it held it's own against everything even the flash decks except for round 2 I went down pretty quick but that deck is wrong..

I don't think they will e-ban it before the GP because I don't think it is going to put up the numbers in the trials. And this is why.. There were some Crippled builds at the GPTs played by younger players that are going to get thrashed by crippled I mean they don't have all the cards and have to play replacements... They also lack the experience of playing legacy. And I think there are a lot of decks that can beat flash when the conditions are right like hulk gets a slow hand and they get the tight hate... BUT that deck in a mediocre players hands in rough and post FS it will not be pretty.. It might see a ban after the GP but I don't think before...

I don't do props and slops except for Props to all who played because the trial was way larger then I though... close to 40 I think... pretty good for legacy..

all right

Namaste,

Dave

Caboose
05-06-2007, 12:27 PM
The judge let him go back (which shouldnt happen), and your teammate still punted it.

His intent was clearly to save his Mongrel. He even said "I want to pump my Mongrel". The Goblins player tricked him into saying the phase ended.


Perhaps you should learn how the game works. With you saying "untap, upkeep, draw" everyturn, I would assume that you knew the phases of the game but I guess not.

I say the phases so my opponent doesn't get confused, so further incidents like the one above don't happen to me. It works for me :tongue:

Anyways, let's not start flaming here. I loooove talking trash, but this is my thread of glory, and I don't want Peter Rotten to lock it. I would love to hear anybody else's take on the tourney (not the near-fight), especially any insight any of my opponents would want to give on my matches.

Zach Tartell
05-06-2007, 01:22 PM
Are you being serial? Because a lot of people hate them, but I love them. It's Sinkhole for one blue. And it's nice countering some Storm shiz. There's always something relevant to Stifle, and if there isn't, side them out.


Super Serial. I really like how it's an answer to alot of things, with all of the randomness that has permeated the format recently. I always liked how landstill was able to run two or three, so I always tried to fit a full playset into the UGw builds that I play, but then ended up discarding them for UGr's greater reach. Props.

Awesomator
05-06-2007, 03:50 PM
I really like that list. Looks like you would have a really good matchup against Goblins, too bad he took the byes from you. What is your boarding strategy vs gobs? Out 4xMeddling Mage 3x Counterspell and 2x? In 4 Hydroblast 3x Tividar's Crusade 2x EE?

GAUDARD
05-06-2007, 03:53 PM
If you were calling names like you say, then the judges were really poor because they should have kicked you from the tournament for unsportsmanlike conduct. Or warned you after the first insult, then dq.

They also, should have seen the intent of you friend and ruled in his favor since it sounds like the goblins player was trying to cheese.

Think about it, why do most judges become judges? Because they have friend playing in tournaments, and they scrub out. Once they're level 2s, they're generally pretty good judges.

GThompson
05-06-2007, 09:38 PM
So you want to call people cheaters for no reason and make up blatant lies about what happened, but you dont want me to call you out on it? Good luck with that.

If you have to explain "untap, upkeep, draw" so that your friend doesnt get confused, its no wonder his Mongrel died. He has no idea what hes doing.

Judges dont rule on intent. They dont care if he wanted to save his Mongrel. The point is, he stacked damage and then resolved it. The judges went back for him, tried to walk him through it, and he passed priority again.

As far as the tournament goes, I believe PES was the real winner. They raked a K and provided zero prize support. Such masters.

Caboose
05-06-2007, 09:50 PM
If you have to explain "untap, upkeep, draw" so that your friend doesnt get confused, its no wonder his Mongrel died. He has no idea what hes doing.

He came in 3rd at the Meandeck tournament today, which was ahead of you, I believe. But clearly he doesn't know how to play Magic, right?


As far as the tournament goes, I believe PES was the real winner. They raked a K and provided zero prize support. Such masters.

At least we agree on something...

Citrus-God
05-06-2007, 10:49 PM
Yay!!!!!!!!!!!! Gerry Thompson posted here....

GThompson
05-06-2007, 10:54 PM
What does him doing better than me at a tournament have to do with him not understanding the rules of the game and then blaming a correct judge ruling for his incompetence?

Caboose
05-06-2007, 11:02 PM
Because Top 8'ing at a 36 person tourney and Top 4'ing a 28 person tourney two days in a row obviously means he knows the rules that Dr. Garfield came up with back in 1993.

GThompson
05-06-2007, 11:07 PM
Thats not even close to being true.

Tom LaPille
05-06-2007, 11:15 PM
Your friend was very bad at playing blue-green madness and did not understand what his cards did. He intentionally drew against me in round four when I was 3-0 and he was 2-0-1 becuase he didn't want to play against me for top eight, under the condition that I play him for fun. During one of our games, he attacked me with two Basking Rootwallas. He slipped in a Ninja of the Deep Hours, he drew a card for combat damage, and then pumped his Rootwalla. This does not work. Damage has already resolved, and so he had a 3/3 Rootwalla in his second main phase. No competent blue-green madness player would do this. Your friend clearly does not understand the rules, and deserved to have his mongrel die on Saturday.

Gerry Thompson has seventy lifetime pro points. He made the top eight of Grand Prix Austin (384 players), Grand Prix Minneapolis (404 players), Grand Prix Kansas City (500 players), Grand Prix New Jersey (914 players), and Grand Prix Richmond (554 players). He is better at magic than you, your friend, and probably every other player that you are on a first name basis with.

EDIT: I mixed up the grand prix orders; this is now fixed.

Caboose
05-06-2007, 11:33 PM
I never said that Gerry Thompson is a bad player. I was merely pointing out that it's weird for Gerry to say that a player doesn't know the rules when the player just did better than him at a tournament. Also, FYI, Paul Mastriano is way better. If he played Standard, he would be winning prize at every major event. Same with Menendian, Bomholt, Lynn, Shay, Herbig, (insert insanely good Legacy/Vintage player).

Tom LaPille
05-06-2007, 11:37 PM
Gerry said that your friend didn't know the rules becuase your friend did not know the rules relating to how combat works. The example I gave demonstrates that clearly, as does the fact that he let his Wild Mongrel die to the Ringleader.

noobslayer
05-06-2007, 11:47 PM
Between the flaming, do you have a list for this madness build?

GThompson
05-06-2007, 11:48 PM
So if I study the rule book really hard Ill do better in the next tournament?

Tom LaPille
05-06-2007, 11:53 PM
He came in 3rd at the Meandeck tournament today, which was ahead of you, I believe. But clearly he doesn't know how to play Magic, right?

This is clearly an implication that your friend was better than Gerry.

If you want a good madness list, you should probably just play what Roland Chang top eighted the Legacy World Championships 2006 with. It does not play hideous cards like Ninja of the Deep Hours, Looter il-Kor, or Snap, and has good cards in those slots instead.

samstod
05-06-2007, 11:54 PM
I never said that Gerry Thompson is a bad player. I was merely pointing out that it's weird for Gerry to say that a player doesn't know the rules when the player just did better than him at a tournament. Also, FYI, Paul Mastriano is way better. If he played Standard, he would be winning prize at every major event. Same with Menendian, Bomholt, Lynn, Shay, Herbig, (insert insanely good Legacy/Vintage player).

This is a good argument, I like it! It is much like the "Babe Ruth would have kicked Mike Tyson's ass, if he boxed and was alive at the same time" argument. I know Shay plays other formats than Eternal, and he does pretty well in those, so you can have some proof there. Simply saying that the other players would be 'winning prizes ay every major event' because they can bash a legacy tournament with 32 players is pretty silly. Big fish, small pond, etc. Maybe if they could win at other formats, then they would play them. Ever consider that?

Zach Tartell
05-07-2007, 12:07 AM
Because Top 8'ing at a 36 person tourney and Top 4'ing a 28 person tourney two days in a row obviously means he knows the rules that Dr. Garfield came up with back in 1993.

I stared at this for like two minutes before I realized that you said "Dr. Garfield" instead of "Dr. Girlfriend." I was completely puzzled at why you'd argue that the Monarch's I-guess-they're-married-now Sidekick's rules would have any sort of relevance to magic. Then I remembered that my glasses aren't just for good looks, and realized my folly.

Citrus-God
05-07-2007, 12:08 AM
Gerry Thompson has seventy lifetime pro points. He made the top eight of Grand Prix Austin (384 players), Grand Prix Minneapolis (404 players), Grand Prix Kansas City (500 players), Grand Prix New Jersey (914 players), and Grand Prix Richmond (554 players). He is better at magic than you, your friend, and probably every other player that you are on a first name basis with.

EDIT: I mixed up the grand prix orders; this is now fixed.


Also...

1. He's Minnesotan. I sure as hell know the entire MN Legacy community knows him, Jeremy Zwirn, and Jesse River.

2. He's a pro that actually has good experience with our format, and would gladly take it even more seriously in the future if Legacy had even more support from the DCI.

bigbear102
05-07-2007, 12:11 AM
Actually a lot of the players mentioned can and do play other formats, but find that Legacy and Vintage are just more fun. It is a lot more casual in these formats and you don't need to invest nearly as much time. I could probably be decent at Limited and Standard if I wanted to play them more, but I find Legacy to be a more enjoyable format, so I play that instead.

FYI: Bashing some of the best players in your first post is probably not a good idea.

T is for TOOL
05-07-2007, 12:15 AM
Whatever happened at the GPT is over and done with. Arguing about rules knowledge and/or playskill is unproductive. Locked.

T is for TOOL
05-15-2007, 09:35 PM
Addendum - From one of the judges at the event


Hi there, my name is Frank Tavern, AKA the Judge from the GPT in Pittsburgh. I usually make it a habit not to discuss rulings and past tourneys in public forums, but with my name and PES' name being drug through the mud, and since people have their facts confused and make up what they don't know, I feel like I must step up and apply logic where it is needed. . .

First off, let's start with some of Mr. Caboose's comments. The biggest one is the Mongrel ruling. There were a few things mentioned about it. . .

Let's go one at a time. . .





In the Top 8 match, this kid mislead the game state and caused my teammate to lose the match.

Um, wrong. There was no misleading of the game state. I don't think that asking a player “Let me know when you want the phase to end,” is misleading. That's a really good way to phrase it so that it's not “rushing a player”. Sloppy play caused your teammate to lose a Mongrel. . .

How he lost the match is another story.





His intent was clearly to save his Mongrel. He even said "I want to pump my Mongrel". The Goblins player tricked him into saying the phase ended.





They also, should have seen the intent of you friend and ruled in his favor since it sounds like the goblins player was trying to cheese.


That last one is from GAUDARD. . .

Ah, the famous “you need to Rule by Intent” argument. First off, let me say that, as a judge, I am happy that you read the judge's list archives. Lots of good info passes through the E-mails of all of the Judge's Mailboxes each day and that info can help players out a lot.

Having said that, you need to know what you are talking about and re-read some of those articles.

“Ruling by intent” is a technique to handle ILLEGAL ACTIONS during a game when advantages aren't gained.. Nothing else. Want to have your Smokestack destroy zero of your permanents and then put a counter on it? You better know how to stack it.

Like wise there is nothing illegal about passing priority to the non-active player to get him to burn, just make sure that your creatures will survive combat. There's no ruling for intent if a player makes a bad play. . .and that's what happened. . .

From my investigation, here's what I thought to be the conversation:

MongrelMan: Attack with Mongrel.
GoblinDude: Block on Goblin.
MM: Damage on stack?
GD: Sure. With it on the stack, Sac goblin for Mana.
MM: Take a point of burn.
GD: Not until the phase ends. “JUST TELL ME WHEN THE PHASE ENDS.”
MM: “Phase ends.”
GD: I burn and Mongrel dies.

And that's when it hit the fan.

Apparently, MM made a mistake the first time. Made it AGAIN when the other judge walked him through it (something I prolly wouldn't have done, but to each their own). And then got strike three when I talked to him. I also did something I normally don't do: talked to a spectator who's a friend. He tried to tell me that “Phase ends” was a question. If someone can put an inflection on “Phase ends” to make it sound like a legit question, please tell me.

The two parts in quotes are things that the players actually said, the rest is paraphrased. GD didn't rush the MM, he simply wanted to know when the phase was going to end. When MM stated “Phase ends”, he stated his intent to leave combat (so, I guess, I DID rule by intent :) and the Mongrel dies.

Judges aren't there to make sure that everyone is doing what they want to do. They are there to give outcomes to what happens.

I know that MM wanted to save his dog. BUT, his actions didn't lead to that result. This next line is important.

If I would have saved his Mongrel, then I would be playing the game for him.

He stacked the damage, he failed to save the Mongrel not once, not twice, but three times. I can't help that.

Another way to look at it: Put yourself as an opponent of MM. He does this to you. The judge walks over and says “Oh, I know what you are trying to do. Here, let me walk you through it and tell you what you need to do step-by-step. First, stack damage. . .”

I'd bet we'd have this thread, only in reverse “JUDGES HELPED MY OPPONENT!!” I guess it's a no-win for me :)

There was another comment Caboose said about MM saying “I save my mongrel”, but MM never told me that. . .and curiously enough, when his friend recanted the encounter, he was trying to make me to believe that MM said one thing and meant something else. No one brought up “I save my Mongrel.” I wonder why?

So, am I supposed to be a mind reader now? And does my lack of mind reader abilities mean “Judge doesn't know what he's doing?”


After nearly assaulting a judge

When? How? Why?

Do you mean “I took a swing and missed” (was that the breeze that I felt after that encounter? :) Or, “I don't know any other way of expressing myself, so I said this?”

There was never a point in which I thought I was in danger of being assaulted. If I did, things would have be slightly different.



After registrations are turned in, we are told we only have 36 people, and the prizes would have doubled at 37.

Doesn't anyone read the website?

Here's the actual prize layout from PES' website or here's the link if you don't believe me

http://www.professional-events.com/W...-Pit050507.htm



For each player participating in the event, we will add 2.25 booster packs to the prize pool.* Prizes will be a minimum of 2.25 boxes to the top 4 players no matter how many participate!* Prizes will be distributed as follows:*
*
Payout for 8 - 36 players:
1st:
- 3rd round bye to Grand Prix Columbus 2007 (May 18 - 19, 2007)
- Free admission to Grand Prix Columbus 2007!
- 36 booster packs of current Magic the Gathering product
2nd:
- 25 booster packs of current Magic the Gathering product
3rd - 4th:
- 10 booster packs of current Magic the Gathering product
*
Payout for 37 + players:
1st:
- 3rd round bye to Grand Prix Columbus 2007 (May 18 - 19, 2007)
- Free admission to Grand Prix Columbus 2007!
- 40% of total booster packs in prize pool - rounded up
2nd:
- 30% of total booster packs in prize pool - rounded up
3rd - 4th:
- 15% of total booster packs in prize pool - rounded up
5th - 8th:
- 3 booster packs


OK, 36 players times 2.25 packs is. . .81 packs. . .exactly what we gave out. . .

36 for first
25 for second
10 for third
10 for fourth.

Still with me. . .

37 players (the point were prizes magically “double”) times 2.25 packs is 83.25 packs, plus the 12 for 5 through 8.

Rounding up all fractions.
34 for first
25 for second
13 for third
13 for fourth

85 packs vs. 81 is not “Double the prizes”. In fact, there would have been less prizes for first if there was one more player. But, we would have thrown in the two for an even box for logistics. . .and we are nice people.

Oh, speaking of another player. . .





I can't believe they didn't tell us we were one short. We could have each thrown a dollar at a guy on the street, let him pay for his entry (and make $11 profit), and have him immediately drop. The fact that PES didn't tell us about being one guy short is rediculous.


1)Read the website and learn the prize structure. We are not obligated to inform you of things like that. In fact, I didn't know that the prizes would increase with one player. I intentionally waited until round four so if something like this happens, players aren't tempted to do come up with the solutions that they do.
2)Do you really think that I would let someone just show up and attend, just to make better prizes? I'm not about to let as many as two people get free wins in round one (the guy paired with the dropper and the guy who got the bye). And before you say “Just give him the bye”, let not talk about judge's “fixing” the pairings.
3)If he immediately dropped, then there's still 36 players, right?
4)Define “Irony”: Having at least three Magic players there that were going to play. . .until they saw the amount of Hulk Flash decks there. There's your other players. . .they were chased away by a deck.

On a related note:





As far as the tournament goes, I believe PES was the real winner. They raked a K and provided zero prize support.

This one is out of my “department”, so to speak, as I am a judge, not a TO. But, being an ex-manager of a restaurant, I feel that this statement is not based on facts.

I'm not going to rattle the cages for 100$. . .PES took in 900$, so that's a moot point. Then there's the stuff PES had to pay for. . .

1)Prizes – 2.25 boxes. . .
2)Site – I have no idea how much that they payed for the site.
3)Judges – Maybe this is why players hate judges so much :) The three judge's get comped for the event, and it's PES' policy to make sure that they are fed and watered. Maybe players see that as product THEY should be getting?
4)Shipping – PES is based in Detroit. . .we are in Pittsburgh. How do you think we get the product there?
5)Misc – There are prolly a litany of things that I can't even think of that cost PES money.

PES may have raked in 1k$, but they prolly walked away with about 250$.

It all boils down to this (bust out your ECON 100 books for this everyone! :)

PES is a business. PES exists to make money at the event. Why? So they can run more events. If money fails to come in, events stop happening. . .I tried to tell people at the event this stuff, but they failed to answer my first of many simple questions: “Do you like to have events like this to play in?”

How does PES make money? Simple. Provide outstanding customer service AND consistent applying of the rules. Customer Service means treating players correcting and with respect (rulings and DQ don't apply here). Consistent rules means EVERYONE gets treated the same. . .(ruling and DQ apply here). If we are consistent and fair, then we gain out players trust and they will come back. I've seen it.

Think we never will stop scheduling events? Look at Prereleases in Pittsburgh. We used to have two-days here. Then, attendance slipped and sites wanted more money. Day two never was in the black, so we stopped having them.

We tried it again with Future Sight. The 1.5 flights we had tells me that we are prolly never going to have a day two here again.

PES has to walk away with something, and only PES knows how much they have to walk away with.

Which leads me to this: what exactly do players want as prizes? I know for a fact that PES offers some of the best prize support around. I've heard it from players. I've heard it from other judges. I've heard it from other TO's. What kind of prize support to players want? What's wrong with box for first, ¾ for second blah, blah, blah.

Also, please note, that this discussion is mainly here because of the fact there were 36 players. Had there been 15 we would have still given out 2.25 boxes, and people's songs would be different.

So, I think I've enough. . .

See everyone at the GP!

Later!!

Frank