Danger Force

[greenmage]

This is my first post here. I started playing legacy in summer, and I am a combofanatic. I always play with my inventions. I will post each of my inventions, beginning with the one that is by far the strongest.

This is my tournament deck, I've won the small local tournament with it a few times by fighting through rogue decks, tier one decks and scrub decks.
So, for your viewing pleasure:

4birds of paradise
2elves of deep shadow
4magus of the vineyard (former llanowar elves)
3wall of roots
4nantuko husk
4phyrexian ghoul
2caller of the claw
1kiki-jiki, mirror breaker
1karmic guide
2protean hulk
1verdant force
1simic sky swallower

4natural order
4pattern of rebirth
3pernicious deed

3gaea's cradle
4bayou
4windswept heath
1yavimaya hollow
1phyrexian tower
1pendelhaven
1savannah
5forest

SB:
4chalice of the void
4defense grid
1dosan the falling leaf
1sylvan safekeeper
1pernicious deed
1molder slug
3leyline of the void

Main combo:
nantuko husk/ghoul + natural order/pattern of rebirth
you fetch yourself hulk, after that karmic guide, etc. (yes, I have stolen that combo).
or: hulk/guide/hulk/caller of the claw if I have drawn kiki-jiki. Sacrificing the tokens allows for a faster kill.
or: hulk/caller of the claw (small minor combo)

Strength's of the deck:
Very flexible
Resiliant (I don't die when my combo is stopped)
Good clock + good late game

Weaknesses:
I don't particulary like stp and counterspells at the wrong moments

Matchups:

Thresh:
Bad. Needs very aggressive sideboarding. Defense grid especially.

Goblins:
Good. They just can't kill me fast enough. Deed is also nice to delay them.

Pox:
Good. I run quite a few cards that kill them.

Solidarity:
Mediocore (they are approximately as fast as I am). Good after boarding chalice. Chalice delays them enough to allow me to race them. I run also quite a few tutoring aspects to get dosan into play.

Standstill:
Bad. See ********.

Affinity:
Very good. I combo off the time he thinks about killing me, or I annihilate him with deed.

Angel Stompy:
Good. My clock is faster. Just watch out for stp and parallax wave.

IGGy pop:
An uphill battle. However, the sideboard allows me to delay them. Hopefully long enough to race them.

Prison (various forms):
Good. Chalice or firsturn trinisphere kill me when I am on the draw, but that's the only real danger here. Should be better after the adding of vinny.

Mono-Red Burn:
Usually good. But be careful: they get an early flamebreak and you are dead. Usually you should race them, though.

Hulk/Flash:
No results for now. Probably bad.

All decks I didn't mention didn't appear yet at the weekly tournament, so I can't say anything about them.

[insertnamehere]

I picked up 4 Natural Orders yesterday because I thought up an idea like this. I am curious to see how it works out.

[greenmage]

Have fun! It is loads of fun to play, you'll see. :smile:

[eternaldarkness]

So its basically the Flash combo without Flash?

[thefreakaccident]

except also without the tutors, protection, or draw... sees a little iffy. like playing reanimator instead of breakfast (if you guys catch my drift)...

I can see this being played at my local touney (highest concentration of rougue since the bginning of WoW)... I could see this with a more controllish shell put around it (pleanty of discard/creature kill & you could have youreslf a deck!).. If you are going to go that route, I would drop the eccell (maybe put in dark rit)... besides that I am not sure what all to tell you about your deck, beside wish you good luck!

[greenmage]

So its basically the Flash combo without Flash?

It's sharing four cards with flash and basically has a very different engine. I've also built this deck before anybody was looking at hulk, I was just using a different combo with academy rector/caller. When flash became popular I picked the jiki combo up because it is a bit faster (nantuko husk/ghoul can still be blocked when I use the bear combo).

@thefreakaccident
I've done this initially, but it didn't bring me a lot of success. Therapy causes often enough card disadvantage, and doesn't even allow me to go into the combo. I've used witness and all this other rock staples, but trust me, this version is superior. If I will change anything, it is perhaps dropping deed altogether, since it isn't really helping me in my bad matchups (any blue based control), while only being good in my good matchups. If I do this, I would splash white heavier, including 2academy rector and 2carrion feeder. This would make it really hard for my opponents to destroy/counter every combo piece, because that would be even better than the super-2card combo I currently run.
Combo piece A: 10 cards
Combo piece B: 10 cards, not counting a hard casted hulk (rarely possible)

Academy rector + sac' outlet = pattern of rebirth on random creature.

[insertnamehere]

To stop the countering problem you can run xantid swarm or the green leyline. My other concern is the Magus of the vineyard is extremely iffy because you have nowhere to put the mana if you can't play anything. I think I am going to tweak the deck a little bit and see what I get.

[greenmage]

I have thirteen options to get rid of magus. He's worked fine in a few games so far, but I haven't tested him yet in tournament environment. I will tomorrow. I'll tell you how good he is or not.
Anyway, he allows for second turn natural order or pattern of rebirth. He also helps for turn three kills if I don't draw into my third land (and have drawn the combo). I just can't ignore this.

Green leyline: yes, nothing can't be countered except of course pattern and natural order. That's the problem.
Xantid Swarm: Is perhaps better than I give it credit. A problem I see though is that I need to attack with xantid swarm before I go into the combo. But I have only one attack phase per turn and I kill in the attack phase...
City of Solitude is another serious contender. However, currently I am running defense grid because city shuts down my own activated abilities. When thresh uses pyroclasm I usually like to pump my husk or ghoul in response. Or playing a surprise caller of the claw.
Or maybe aether vial? I am really uncertain on this particular subject.

[eternaldarkness]

You said that counterspells and stp posed problems for you. So why not use a bunch of Xantid Swarms? These would help protect your combo from countermagic and it wouldn't be too much of a strain since your already playing heavily in green.

[Cavius The Great]

You definitely need more ways to sac Protean Hulk once you Natural Order for him. I suggest running 4 Cabal Therapy and maybe even 1-2 High Market. I like the deck though, it looks pretty sweet. It very well may be the alternative to Hulk Flash once Flash is actually banned. Hopefully Protean Hulk doesn't get the ban as well, which would essentially make this deck a distant memory.

[greenmage]

Phyrexian tower is a sweet sacking card. It is legendary, though, so I can only run one.
Therapy is not good in the deck. I've tinkered with it for a full month, but most of the time it just provided card disadvantage.
I really hope they don't ban hulk. This is my first real legacy deck, I got the duals and everything for it. I'd outright hate wizards if they banned hulk. Also: I used hulk and I don't believe he is broken. Flash is, though. And yes, I hope this will be the predecessor to the current hulk deck once flash is banned. But, is there one deck builder who doesn't hope to see his deck played by other people? :wink:
Today I did pretty badly because I was encountering control decks. The magus was most of the time very useful. He didn't really hurt me very much. But he burned my opponents a few times. I managed to make some ridiculous plays, like second turn pattern against red beats.
However, whenever I lose a lot I also learn quite a few things about my deck.
Observations I have:
I need to run at least one carrion feeder. It can happen that my hulk dies, and I want to go instantly into the combo when that happens. I can also go into the other bear maker combo with it.
Aether vial might be better against the countering problem, especially with magus of the vineyard. First turn vial, second turn vialing magus into play almost feels like cheating. Defense grid didn't help me as much as I liked. The control decks wheren't able to counter, but they still managed to shoot my important critters out of existance.
I am thinking about using living wish. I could tutor dosan, cradle, boseiju, witness, carrion feeder (combo piece A), academy rector (combo piece B), treetop village, phyrexian tower, body snatcher, well, a lot of things. I'll see how it curves-if it curves nicely, it will be included.

[Pinder]

Phyrexian tower is a sweet sacking card. It is legendary, though, so I can only run one.


You do know that legendary means you can only have one in play, right? You can run more than one, you just can't play more than one (at a time)

[insertnamehere]

You definitely need more ways to sac Protean Hulk once you Natural Order for him. I suggest running 4 Cabal Therapy and maybe even 1-2 High Market. I like the deck though, it looks pretty sweet. It very well may be the alternative to Hulk Flash once Flash is actually banned. Hopefully Protean Hulk doesn't get the ban as well, which would essentially make this deck a distant memory.

I must agree on this being the replacement to hulk flash. I think there are many cards that con compliment this card including some of the following that have not been mentioned:
Bitter Ordeal-The card with gravestorm that removes a card from an opponents deck. This could be key against another combo deck that relies on certain cards.
Adarkar Valkrie or Saffi-these will give you that extra sacrifice you may need to get out the extra cards.
Research/Development-gets arounf Leyline by shuffling 4 cards from outside the game into your library.
Greater Good=an alternative sac method
There are several alternatives to use with Hulk if Flash is banned.

I would also like to give out empty kleenex boxes to those who have quit Legacy due to the fact that the errataed flash.

[sammiel]

living wish for sac outlets and to fetch a creature thats gone farming?

[greenmage]

living wish for sac outlets and to fetch a creature thats gone farming?
Sure. But even more. Boseiju when I have a strange draw with four natural orders on hand against control, for instance.


You do know that legendary means you can only have one in play, right? You can run more than one, you just can't play more than one (at a time)

As you can see, I run three cradles, so I know very well I could run more than one. But it would probably hurt my mana consistency. You know, this whole drawing more than one copy of legendary lands thingy. :rolleyes:

@insertnamehere
I've tested several alternate sac' engines, including blasting station. With blasting station, you don't even need the jiki/guide combo, the bear combo is enough. The thing was: the station was useless on its own + my deck likes to run many creatures (cradle and pattern reasons).
Valkyrie has unfortunately no haste.
Saffi is nice, but I'd need to cast her to use her properly. Although you can fetch her when you go saffi + academy rector, I don't quite know how to go from there. As much as I know, her sac'ing ability doesn't work before I go hulk searching.
Greater Good is a wonderful card, I am a big fan of it. Unfortunately it doesn't fit in here. My curve is already quite top headed.
I find Bitter Ordeal somewhat intriguing, for the sideboard. But it might be too slow. That's why I have the chalices and leylines (I can even cast them if they get bounced) in there.
You are free to explore any roads you may find. It's an interesting puzzle for sure.

[greenmage]

Changes:
MD
-1yavimaya hollow
-1caller of the claw
-2phyrexian ghoul
-3deed
-1verdant force
+4living wish
+2carrion feeder
+1body snatcher
+1phyrexian tower
SB
-4defense grid
-1molder slug
-1pernicious deed
+1gaea's cradle
+1boseiju, who shelters all
+1carrion feeder
+1academy rector
+1phyrexian tower
+1viridian zealot

I'll simply try this next wednesday. What do you think?

[outsideangel]

Needs more Cabal Therapy/Duress. Your deck is too slow to beat fast combo consistently. Not only is Therapy disruption, it's also a sac outlet for Hulk or any creature you stick Pattern on, and it has synergy with any excess mana critters. Combined with Duress, it should help you fight through counters.

Also, maybe run the 4th Wall of Roots? Goblins is fast, I hear, and it'll buy you the time you need to win.

[insertnamehere]

Body Snatchers are good in this deck.

[Bane of the Living]

Body Snatchers are god in this deck.

Fixed.

Husk and Snatcher go so well together. I think you need some Wild Mongrels to hit the 2 drop.

[greenmage]

Also, maybe run the 4th Wall of Roots? Goblins is fast, I hear, and it'll buy you the time you need to win.

Goblins are no big problem. If I don't missplay, I usually win. Don't forget that lackey doesn't connect against me. However, wall of roots is an excellent card in this deck. I might up it to four copies.


I think you need some Wild Mongrels to hit the 2 drop.

Wall is a better two drop than mongrel. Also, my curve usually allows for second turn three drops and occasionally four drops.


Body Snatchers are good in this deck.

Probably very true. Except for the combo use I can also use them to discard a uncastable fattie in my hand and cheat it easily into play. A nice trick for sure.


Needs more Cabal Therapy/Duress. Your deck is too slow to beat fast combo consistently. Not only is Therapy disruption, it's also a sac outlet for Hulk or any creature you stick Pattern on, and it has synergy with any excess mana critters. Combined with Duress, it should help you fight through counters.

Maybe. I'm wondering what's better. Wish or discard suite.

Against control:
discard suite hits counters, therapy might play some role if I manage to cast a pattern/order
wish allows me to sometimes circumvent counters (boseiju), or gets me one more piece they need to counter. Resolved natural order means usually game.

Fast combo:
discard suite: delays them, probably enough to combo off myself
wish: target, I don't know, perhaps ichneumon druid, for additional lockdown after I've dropped that chalice or leyline.

I am still unsure. And I don't really want to buy either card if I don't use it afterwards. Wish seems better against control (overall), discard better against fast combo.

Yesterday's match results:
I didn't manage to get wishes, but I exchanged one husk and one ghoul for carrion feeders. The rest was the original list.

1
High Tide
First game was a loss, needed to mull down to five. Still, I would have won if it wasn't for that double remand.
After boarding: complete blowout. Chalice and defense grid wrecked him hard, while I was killing him. Magus was a star in this match.

2
Thresh
Ouch. I lost that one. Not much to say. My usual weaknesses showed. My mana critters got burned, that slowed me enough for him to assemble the counterwall.

3
Budget Countersliver
Blowout.

4
Combo goblins. A goblin variant with stuff like skirk prospector and siege game commander.
I lost the first game after a stupid playing mistake. I comboed him dead the other two games.

I went 3:1, my usual result. I liked the feeders. They speed me up, allowed a third turn kill against goblins.

[insertnamehere]

I played a version of this and almost beat Flash. I lost to mispronouncing sacking Saffi.

:mad::frown: :mad:

[greenmage]

How did you use saffi? What was your list?
Yay, I am not alone playing this deck anymore. :smile:

[greenmage]

Current list:

4birds of paradise
2elves of deep shadow
4magus of the vineyard
3wall of roots
4nantuko husk
4phyrexian ghoul
2body snatcher
1saffi eriksdotter
1kiki-jiki, mirror breaker
1karmic guide
2protean hulk
1simic sky swallower

4natural order
4pattern of rebirth
3pernicious deed

3gaea's cradle
4bayou
4windswept heath
2overgrown tomb
1phyrexian tower
2savannah
4forest

Tournament result:

1Monoblack suicide:
Won 2:1

2Survival:
Long outdrawn games, won 2:1

3Hulk/Flash
Loss, I almost managed to win the first game, 0:2

4Monored burn
Win, no problems at all. 2:0

Match result: 3:1

[greenmage]

I made some changes and thought I would bump it because of this to get some feedback in. I've slightly better results than before (usually second place in a 20 person tournament).
The combo seems more consistant (even if it was pretty consistant before).
I decided to drop magus of the vineyard, because it is a risky card that hurt me a lot against goblins and thresh. But for combo ladden environments it may be still a good choice.
One snatcher is enough because if you draw kiki-jiki and guide you can still combo off by using saffi in a clever way (sac' guide, return it with saffi, return kiki). Therefore I dropped them down to one.
Carrion feeder is cheap, but I don't feel like playing more than two because he is as creature pretty useless.
Living wish and wishboard is probably the most important change.

4birds of paradise
3elves of deep shadow
3llanowar elves
3wall of roots
2carrion feeder
3nantuko husk
3phyrexian ghoul
1body snatcher
1saffi eriksdotter
1kiki-jiki, mirror breaker
1karmic guide
2protean hulk
1simic sky swallower

4natural order
4pattern of rebirth
4living wish

3gaea's cradle
4bayou
4windswept heath
2overgrown tomb
1phyrexian tower
2savannah
4forest

SB:
1dosan the falling leaf
1viridian zealot (my only artifact/enchantment removal)
1false prophet (my only creature removal)
1phyrexian tower (interesting enough my favorite wish target)
1boseiju, who shelters all
1gaea's cradle
1carrion feeder (combo tool)
1academy rector (combo tool)
4chalice of the void
3leyline of the void

Ideas? Suggestions? Comments?
Especially: what do you think of the wishes?