[Deck] Satanic Sligh

[Bane of the Living]

This deck is an extension of a mono red deck I had in the works prior to the Flash ordeal. It looks to exploit the weak mana curve and reliance on fetchlands. Land destruction is a potent tool against decks when backed by a signifigant clock. Here is the list I originally tested..

Ankh Sligh

4 Rishadin Port
4 Wasteland
12 Mountain
4 Mox Diamond

4 Slith Firewalker
4 Veteran Brawlers
4 Blood Knight
2 Avalance Riders
2 Ravenous Baboon

4 Ankh of Mishra
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Boom Bust
4 Pillage
3 Molten Rain
3 Chalice of the Void

The list looks janky as hell I know. Im sure at least half of you needed to look up the creatures. I'll admit that Slith Firewalker needed to be replaced badly. The only time he was ever good was turn one backed up by a couple turns of land destruction. Turn 2 slith on the draw just doesnt cut it in legacy.

Card Choices..

Mountains- You need these for red mana. Fetchlands kill you.
Wasteland/Port- These rule, you know this.
Mox Diamond- This makes 3cc ld not suck. It also enables you to dump ankh into play before your opponent plays one of theyre first fetchlands.

Slith- Like I said he was a weak link in my aggro. Awsome turn one except against Mogg Fanatics. People often let him hit a couple times then lost once he was a 4/4.

Blood Knight- This was one of the reasons I made the deck. Pro White is tech. He eats goblins for breakfast. My meta is very white weenie oriented so hes just the man and thats all she wrote.

Veteran Brawlers- This deck should be called Veteran Sligh because he's clearly mvp. Ive beat the fuck out of people on MWS that read the card and call me a noob. People playing TES, whatever. He'll kill you, he wont even think twice about it. It also pushes people to make bad choices to not get hit by him. I have goblin players not Wasting my lands or Porting me because of him. People wait a turn more to play spells as tho your playing Daze. Except your daze does 4 damage a turn! I really cant stress how good he is, the deck is built around him.

Baboon/Darwin
These guys were also pretty weak but I wanted something that would act as land destruction and a kill condition. These are few.

Bolt- I need some kind of board control in the deck. This is the only card. Its a Lackey answer and helps Blood Knight in combat. It conflicts with Chalice of the Void but both seem way too necessary. Some suggestions are welcome.

Ankh- These deal tons of damage. Your LD wouldnt matter much when people top a curve at 2 mana except that they need to take 2-4 each time they want to get mana on the table again. This makes the LD worth it. Legacy is chock full of fetchlands and this is how you exploit that.

Chalice of the Void- The deck has a weakness to combo, this can help that. It also comes down mid game to stop mana scewed opponents from staying in the game with one drops.

Molten Rain- The damage from this and Ankh adds up and helps your men achieve victory sooner. Double red usually isnt a problem.

Pillage- The fact this blows up vial is huge since it makes a big difference in the goblin matchup. The ability to hit opposing moxen and needles is a benefit.

Boom/Bust- This is played basically since 2cc ld is where its at. I want it to be Sinkhole and it will be with the black splash made.

Goblins
In testing I had a surprisingly good goblin matchup. I could get the Chalice for 1 on turn one, I had Pillage for Vial. Goblins suprisingly hates land destruction when they run a really tight mana base. Ankh of Mishra dished out tons of damage thank to 6-8 fetchlands. Bolt is played for a lackey answer.

Thresh
Ankh was nasty against thresh as well. They take 5 damage from one fetchland with ankh out. Your stongest play in the deck is usually a turn one ankh followed by LD.

Solidarity
This was the tough one. You basically need to capitalize on LD effects and not get them Remanded. You can certainly win games by nuking 4 land in a row and beating with guys but Veteran Brawlers arent so great against a deck that never taps out. Chalice helped shore this matchup.

This deck actually gave me favorable matchups against the big three. TES was tough but far from unwinnable since the deck has a weakness to LD, clocks, and Chalice. As long as you had CotV for 0 and quick beats you were ok. The sb consisted of 4 Pyroclasm for Emtpy the Warrens and Gobs.

Enter Future Sight!

There are two amazing additions to this deck thanks to this set. The first is Magus of the Moon. This guy just wins games, he completely stole the spot from the craptacular Ravenous Baboons.

What this deck wants is a bigger nasty creature to take Sliths spot. Hello Negs. It needs a better land destruction spell, enter Sinkhole. The issue is getting black mana without the help of fetchlands and maintaining double red. Double black for sinkhole is tough for a splash so I was in a pickle. Thank yawg for Graven Carverns.

It turns out Caverns helps get me double red when I draw too many ports/wastelands and only a single mountain. Which happened to me alot since there are 15 cards that require RR.

Here is my revised list splashing black.

4 Graven Caverns
4 Rishadin Port
4 Wasteland
4 Badlands
4 Mountain
4 Mox Diamond

4 Dark Confidant
3 Phyrexian Negator
4 Blood Knight
4 Veteran Brawler
3 Magus of the Moon

4 Chalice of the Void
4 Sinkhole
4 Pillage
2 Lava Blister
4 Lightning Bolt

Sb
3 Pyroclasm
3 Ankh of Mishra
3 Pyrostatic Pillar
3 Tormods Crypt
3 Jitte

There are a few other things I want to work out. I dont know how well the bolts will work with chalice still but bolt seems even more needed now that negs is in the deck and you'll need to clear blockers.

Im expecting Magus to mess up my black mana sources a bit as well. I need to crunch out quite a few games to see how many times these anti synergies come up and how conflicting they are.

I was thinking of testing out Encroach to take blacks mana denial a bit further. It seems effective and terribly underplayed at one mana. Help developing the deck would be much appreciated.

[Silverdragon]

With only 20 lands you maybe want some Chrome Moxen instead of Mox Diamond.
Ancient Tomb could be useful to power out the Chalice, Ankh, Magus etc but then you'd perhaps have to cut some Molten Rains or Pillages for Stone Rains. Gathan Raiders is a good replacement for Negator in a monored version.
Depending on how much you need the Chalice I'd also consider replacing Lightning Bolt with a 2cc Burnspell like Magma Jet or Incinerate.

[Androstanolone]

I can't comment much since I don't tend to critique decks I don't know anything about. But, what about zo-zu the punisher?

Turn one ankh, turn 2 zo-zu, turn 3 LD/burn etc. sounds like gg.

[Bane of the Living]

I can't comment much since I don't tend to critique decks I don't know anything about. But, what about zo-zu the punisher?

Turn one ankh, turn 2 zo-zu, turn 3 LD/burn etc. sounds like gg.

Before I stopped working on the mono red version he was the card I was testing out to even replace the ankhs possibly. The thing is a 3cc ankh is too slow since most players crack their fetchlands turns 1-2. They can also swords him before dropping land. He's legendary and hes a goblin, so he helps gempalm take down your brawlers.

Magus of the Moon is basically his replacement. He's more gg if he resolves.

The problem with Ancient Tomb is obviously that it wont give me red mana. Pillage is needed for vial and needles. Port and Wasteland are both way better for the decks goal (kill you with brawlers) and playing all three would turn this nearly mono brown.

The only problem I have with Gathan Riders is the morph cost. You actually need the two cards to turn him into a 5/5. Thats some bigtime card disadvantage if he dies. Also trample is tech.

I think he'd fit way better in a 5/3 deck with card draw from SoFI and Crucible to scoop lands back to play.

[Rastadon]

Sweet idea. Veteran Brawlers looks amazing here.

The black splash is cool, just as long as you don't start throwing in duress and hymm in there because before you know it, you're playing red death. Just make sure you continue to focus on the LD.

I'd suggest putting some Lava Blisters in the deck, but any extra space will probably be going to Confidant.

I'm very interested in seeing where this deck goes. Looks like a lot of fun.

[Bane of the Living]

Sweet idea. Veteran Brawlers looks amazing here.

The black splash is cool, just as long as you don't start throwing in duress and hymm in there because before you know it, you're playing red death. Just make sure you continue to focus on the LD.

I'd suggest putting some Lava Blisters in the deck, but any extra space will probably be going to Confidant.

I'm very interested in seeing where this deck goes. Looks like a lot of fun.

So far your the biggest help. Lava Blister looks like a contender for the Molten Rain slot. Im actually thinking of pulling Ankh out and putting it in the sb to make room for the Bobs. It can still come in against decks with a high count of fetchlands.

Another 2 reasons the deck is playing Mox Diamond btw; it makes black mana, that should've been obvious, and it lets you toss land instead of playing it to avoid Ankh damage.

I agree on the discard. My feelings towards Red Death and other black attrition archetypes is that they try to focus on too many forms of disruption. Im a strong believer that attacking mana resources is the focal of denial. Counterspells are too reactive, discard isnt reliable and doesnt work against top decking (and Sensei Top). Hitting mana sources is something every deck is hurt by aside from Belcher and Lands.dec

The decks method of creature control is to have larger creatures. When your opponent can only cast creatures that cost 1-2 you can rest assured Veteran Brawlers tears his throat out.

Hand control isnt done with discard effects but by sqaundering the means to make a hand relevant at all!

I just updated the list.

If I go with Encroach and other one drops instead of Chalice I can also play some gems like Raze. Two 1cc spells that destroy lands sounds beautiful.

One last development derailing comment..
I cant help but wonder if white splash would be better. Flagstones is amazing with Boom//Bust and Raze. StP is amazing of course. Mana Tithe would fit the bill. Then the idea of playing Jotun Grunt as a four of is the icing. 8 4/4's for 2cc! Cowabunga! If only white had ld..

[Phantom]

I really like the ideas being tossed around here, but I do have some thoughts:

1) Reading the beginning of the post, I was actually getting angry at that Magus of the Moon wasn't in the deck, so I'm glad to see it included in the second list. I know from testing my own builds that Magus + LD can be brutal.

2) How can this deck reliably get BB? If I'm counting correctly, it has 12 black sources and no draw spells. Compare that to FS which runs 14 blue sources and several draw spells and still can't rely on UU consistently. I believe 16 sources is the accepted standard for double colored on turn 2 (if I remember correctly from Angel Stompy). I don't think you should bump up, I think you should cut sinkhole. (I just read Graven Cairns lol)

3) Would Trinisphere be better than Chalice here? At least it wouldn't cut off your bolts completely.

4) You need something in the board to stop Vial. I know you have 4 Pillages, but an active Vial completely shuts down your deck, so you need some artifact hate in the board, which will be nice to hit other problem artifacts like Jitte, Moxen, and LED. I would suggest Null Rod but it gets in the way of your own Moxes.

5) Speaking of, is there any chance Vial has a place here? It seems like you have a ton of things to do with your mana other than cast creatures (blow lands up, Port lands) so Vial would free you up to do so. Also, it would work great with Trinishpere. Lastly, it is amazing with your creature base (Vial in Magus when they are tapped out so they can't plow him, Vial in Confidant so you get at least a draw off him, Vial in Brawler when they are tapped out, etc.)

6) It looks to me like you would struggle with fast aggro decks. Any creature dropped in the first 2 turns or so, that is out of bolt range, or quickly becomes equipped is trouble for you. I'm not sure of the answer, but it may be a pair of Jittes mainboard would do the trick.

7) I don't like Lava Blister at all, but I especially don't like it in a build without Ankh. Cards that let your opponents choose are almost always bad because they let your opponents choose. Boom/Bust seemed much better.

Edit: Just saw your last post. I'm not sure about Encroach (too many whiffs, too terrible mid and late game), but dropping Chalice and playing a white splash sounds much better.

[Rastadon]

Did some more thinking about Lava Blister. Don't depend on it for LD, 'cause it'll tweak out when you don't want it to. If you're already got a competent LD base, then you can consider using it in addition, so if it doesn't turn out be an LD spell you weren't depending on it.

White would be good for this deck. There are a bunch of white mana manipulation spells but they all cost 4. Armageddon, Horoki, cataclysm, etc.

[technogeek5000]

Has anyone tried a green splash. Tarmogoyf is to great a card not to consider.

The deck looks pretty decent. But i noticed that even though the deck focuses on mana denial you dont run null rod in the board. It seems like combo can steamroll this deck with ease (except solidarity, but they have countermagic)

[Bane of the Living]

I really like the ideas being tossed around here, but I do have some thoughts:

1) Reading the beginning of the post, I was actually getting angry at that Magus of the Moon wasn't in the deck, so I'm glad to see it included in the second list. I know from testing my own builds that Magus + LD can be brutal.

2) How can this deck reliably get BB? If I'm counting correctly, it has 12 black sources and no draw spells. Compare that to FS which runs 14 blue sources and several draw spells and still can't rely on UU consistently. I believe 16 sources is the accepted standard for double colored on turn 2 (if I remember correctly from Angel Stompy). I don't think you should bump up, I think you should cut sinkhole. (I just read Graven Cairns lol)

3) Would Trinisphere be better than Chalice here? At least it wouldn't cut off your bolts completely.

4) You need something in the board to stop Vial. I know you have 4 Pillages, but an active Vial completely shuts down your deck, so you need some artifact hate in the board, which will be nice to hit other problem artifacts like Jitte, Moxen, and LED. I would suggest Null Rod but it gets in the way of your own Moxes.

5) Speaking of, is there any chance Vial has a place here? It seems like you have a ton of things to do with your mana other than cast creatures (blow lands up, Port lands) so Vial would free you up to do so. Also, it would work great with Trinishpere. Lastly, it is amazing with your creature base (Vial in Magus when they are tapped out so they can't plow him, Vial in Confidant so you get at least a draw off him, Vial in Brawler when they are tapped out, etc.)

6) It looks to me like you would struggle with fast aggro decks. Any creature dropped in the first 2 turns or so, that is out of bolt range, or quickly becomes equipped is trouble for you. I'm not sure of the answer, but it may be a pair of Jittes mainboard would do the trick.

7) I don't like Lava Blister at all, but I especially don't like it in a build without Ankh. Cards that let your opponents choose are almost always bad because they let your opponents choose. Boom/Bust seemed much better.

Edit: Just saw your last post. I'm not sure about Encroach (too many whiffs, too terrible mid and late game), but dropping Chalice and playing a white splash sounds much better.

1) Magus wasnt out when I was developing the mono red list.

2) It is only twelve sources but the Graven Caverns make both cases of black mana for you. The sinkhole does look scary I admit, I think Ill cut it to a 3 of and see where I can go from there. The deck has card draw btw.

3) This is a question people often pop when a deck is utilizing one of these cards and not the other. I think Chalice works better for my deck because It helps shore up the combo matchup. Trinisphere isnt as good against combo since it isnt quite as fast and can usually be worked around. However Chalice for 1-2 can shut down important cards combo plays that my land destruction has no effect on. Being able to Chalice for 0 is one of the only things that makes TES winnable. Playing CotV turn one creates a great impact on goblins and threshold as well.

Trinisphere has a nice crippling effect along with land destruction but if you dont draw enough ld the Trinispheres become dead. Multiple 3sphere are bad whereas multi CotV are nuts. Also, the only spells my opponents can cast along with timely ld are 1-2 manacost spells. This is why it hits hardest.

4) Agreed. Null Rod is a nice suggestion but I like my moxen. This will probably go to Pithing Needle or Shattering Spree. I dont like the fact decks like Green Goblin can Tin Street your needle away and tool you. Shattering Spree can take out multiple artifacts and be dominant in the affinity matchup. It also gets through your Chalice of the Voids thanks to Replicate.

5) I really dont like adding Vial to decks with less than 20 creatures but as we get closer to that number I'll start to consider it more.

6) Fast aggro is a reason the Lightning Bolt stays. Veteran Brawlers and Blood Knights are terrific for stemming the early bleeds. Clasm and Jitte are in the board to break armies but I dont see the room for Jitte maindeck. Especially when Ill never cast it as a four drop.

7) I havent tested with this enough to tell you what I think yet but I fell any 2cc land destruction spell is worth running through the grinder.

[Bane of the Living]

Has anyone tried a green splash. Tarmogoyf is to great a card not to consider.

The deck looks pretty decent. But i noticed that even though the deck focuses on mana denial you dont run null rod in the board. It seems like combo can steamroll this deck with ease (except solidarity, but they have countermagic)

Not only Tarmagoyf but his goyf brother Terravore. I did consider that but couldnt think of any other worth while green cards. Theres no ld and thats where Sinkhole and Armageddon have it beat. If you can think of any other good green cards to make it worth it let em fly.

What combo are you refering to aside from Solidarity? The TES matchup is probably 35/65 pre board. Its not unwinnable but its not a matchup to look forward to. You can certainly win 1/3 pre board games. Post board they bring in nothing against you at all and you get Pyroclasm for EtW and Pyrostatic Pillar for storminess. If you add shattering spree's as well you get to nuke Chrome Mox and friends. (worth it). Belcher is terrible yea Ill give you that.

[KillemallCFH]

Not only Tarmagoyf but his goyf brother Terravore. I did consider that but couldnt think of any other worth while green cards. Theres no ld and thats where Sinkhole and Armageddon have it beat.Ice storm? Thermokast? (to a much lesser extent) Acid Moss? I'm not saying that green is definately worth the splash but it certainly does have LD that could compliment the deck's strategy.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

Maybe Shivan Wumpus? More importantly...


Why are you running Chalice?

The function of Chalice of the Void, maindeck anyway, is to stop people from being able to play their spells. Sound familiar? What's what the Land Destruction is already doing, and the two have no synergy with one another. Tangle Wire, on the other hand, has a lot of synergy with your deck, allowing both Veteran Brawlers and Negators to get in easier.

Also, if you cut Ankh for more actual creatures or Cursed Scrolls, you could just run fetchlands and Badlands and have an actually consistent manabase.

I was skeptical on Veteran Brawlers, but that picture is pretty sweet, which is good enough for me.

[syssc9]

Just a general thought here, a message from the old days...
Back in the day, land destruction decks running black usually ran 3 Nether Void. Once you have killed 2 or more of your opponents lands, this will pretty much lock him out of the game. It's not a hard lock, but it is a maintainable one. You will continue to have more lands and his will keep disapeering. This may not fit what you are attempting to build, but I love LD and thought I would chime in.

I remember seeing that Black Vise was un-restricted in Vintage. Did it also get un-banned in Legacy? If it did...

[Bane of the Living]

Maybe Shivan Wumpus? More importantly...


Why are you running Chalice?

The function of Chalice of the Void, maindeck anyway, is to stop people from being able to play their spells. Sound familiar? What's what the Land Destruction is already doing, and the two have no synergy with one another. Tangle Wire, on the other hand, has a lot of synergy with your deck, allowing both Veteran Brawlers and Negators to get in easier.

Also, if you cut Ankh for more actual creatures or Cursed Scrolls, you could just run fetchlands and Badlands and have an actually consistent manabase.

I was skeptical on Veteran Brawlers, but that picture is pretty sweet, which is good enough for me.

Chalice is amazing in Legacy but aside from that I was running it to give a chance against the combo matchups. Without Chalice I have only some quick beats and land destruction. Tangle Wire isnt very good against any combo deck. It definitly has a place in the deck but Im not sure I should give up Chalice for it. Besides the two work so well together.

After playing without Bloodstained Mire for quite a few games now Im confidant I dont need it. There are too many stifles running around to screw with me. Graven Carverns is amazing I was missing this card in red stax as well. The fact that it produces RR cannot be overlooked. Either Im drawing like an incredible luck sack or twelve sources of black are enough.

Altho Magus of the Moon is a back breaker he can sometimes mess up my black sources or nullify my own ports. He might be leaving or end up in the board.