[Brainstorming] Cunning Wish

[Mirrislegend]

I've been wondering what everyone else's opinion on Cunning Wish is. I've been running it in a control deck, and it never seems to be of any use. It costs too much to be used effectively until the endgame (cast Wish, then Wish target in one turn), when I need its utility in the midgame.

Also, on a totally unrelated (to the title) note, with Legacy as it is, how many sweepers should be run next to 4x spot removal (ie: WoG and StP, Damnation and Ghastly Demise). I'm leaning towards two or three, but I really cant tell which. Is it needed at all?

[greenmage]

Wishes are pretty much only good in combo decks where they fetch one of the combo pieces or combo protection. That makes the combo deck much more consistant, as you can choose between different pieces. Combo pieces are important enough that you are willing to pay the additional wish mana.
For instance, I'm playing a deck that works with sac'ing engines and stuff that likes to be sac'ed. I run living wish so I can fetch myself either if I need it.
For the sweeper question, this relies entirely on the deck. I've been running three deeds in a deck without any draw. So, maybe two sweepers is generally the right number if you are running draw.

[Tacosnape]

Wishes are pretty much only good in combo decks where they fetch one of the combo pieces or combo protection.

While they are generally best at this, this statement varies in truth depending on the wish.

Burning Wish is the strongest wish, and also the cheapest, as Sorceries by principle have stronger effects than Instants. Therefore several decks can get away with Burning Wish.

Cunning's a little bit slower, but the second strongest. Certain reactive control decks can get away with using it, in addition to Solidarity.

[Mirrislegend]

I use Cunning Wish as a toolbox and an emergency tutor for my deck. Mystical Tutor handles the normal stuff. Is it worth it to just abandon the toolbox, given the cost of accessing it?

This line of reasoning has led me to wonder if, for a control deck, we can figure out if Cunning Wish or Mystical Tutor is strictly better. Or at least the conditions in which one is distinctly better than the other. (For example, Mystical Tutor has the upper hand in Counterbalance-based decks)

[Mijorre]

Situational, never strictly better. Cunning wish, for example, is brilliant when you have managed to remove your kill spell (e.g.: haunting echoes) and want it back. Depending on what your run (counterbalance) mystical is better, but in general, when I need a spell, I NEED it that turn, not the next. Mystical kinda requires card disadvantage (draw effect + mystical card from hand).

An dyes, I have been in love with my cunning wish since I started playing Solidarity.

[Sims]

Situational, never strictly better. Cunning wish, for example, is brilliant when you have managed to remove your kill spell (e.g.: haunting echoes) and want it back. Depending on what your run (counterbalance) mystical is better, but in general, when I need a spell, I NEED it that turn, not the next. Mystical kinda requires card disadvantage (draw effect + mystical card from hand).

An dyes, I have been in love with my cunning wish since I started playing Solidarity.

While your point holds, Cunning Wish is NEVER going to fetch Haunting Echoes.... Cunning Wish really doesn't get much in the way of Win conditions unless you're trying to get a Brain Freeze. It is more a utility fetcher in getting Bounce, Permission, Misdirection, or utility instants of that nature.

[Mirrislegend]

Cunning Wish really doesn't get much in the way of Win conditions unless you're trying to get a Brain Freeze. It is more a utility fetcher in getting Bounce, Permission, Misdirection, or utility instants of that nature.

Well that just about hit the nail on the head for the deck I keep alluding to. I figure I might as well share it, because its not going to smash any metagames to pieces, or anything snazzy like that.

Sensei Sensei

// Lands
3 Hallowed Fountain
7 Island
2 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand
4 Tundra
1 Plains
1 Ancient Den
1 Seat of the Synod

// Spells
4 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Enlightened Tutor
4 Counterbalance
1 Vedalken Shackles
3 Cunning Wish
2 Helm of Awakening
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
3 Wrath of God
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Brain Freeze
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Condescend

// Sideboard
SB: 1 Enlightened Tutor
SB: 1 Vedalken Shackles
SB: 1 Brain Freeze
SB: 1 Argivian Find
SB: 1 Echoing Truth
SB: 1 Stifle
SB: 2 Disenchant
SB: 3 Blue Elemental Blast
SB: 3 Hydroblast
SB: 1 Pulse of the Fields

I have the concession of one Brain Freeze in the MD for when I can't afford to Wish for it. I suppose it would be pretty easy to drop the Wishes, reconfigure the SB, and fill the remaining MD slots, but I'm very worried about losing the versatility of the toolbox.

[nightshade81]

Why aren't you running Academy Ruins? It seems like all a person has to do to beat you is counter your Helm of Awakening. I'm guessing at your reasoning is that you'll have Counterbalance/Top online before attempting to win, but still I always like insurance.

Edit: Sorry for off topic post

[Mirrislegend]

Good point, but that's not what the thread is about. I like to build my jank decks on my own, thank you very much :smile:

I'd like to focus on the Cunning Wish/Mystical Tutor aspect in here. Although that does bring up a good point. Academy Ruins would allow me to drop Argivian Find from the SB. As a result, the main Wish targets are now limited to the emergency Enlightened Tutor, the Wishable Brain Freeze, Pulse of the Forge, and Echoing Truth. If Wish is dropped, those can fit into the MD, in one form or another. The evidence against Cunning Wish is mounting. Can anyone provide a justification FOR Cunning Wish?

[Raider Bob]

Cunning wish is a very fickle card. In order to really use its power in a control deck you need to be able to control the game Tempo till turn 4. If you can do this and enter a mid to late game with your deck, wish can be your best friend. That being said you really need to design your deck to have silver bullets in your board to make wish usefull.

Wish Targets

Extirpate
Pulse of the Fields
Intervention Pact
Harmonic Convergence
Orim's Chant
Pact of Negation
Slaughter Pact
Spell Snare
Disenchant/Krosan Grip
Price of Progress
Fact of Fiction
Brain Freeze

The usefullness really really drifts off past this list.

[Mirrislegend]

If you can do this and enter a mid to late game with your deck, wish can be your best friend.

As I noted in the first post, Wish's cost prevents it from being used in the mid-game, which is when it's utility is needed most. The issue becomes that Mystical Tutor is useable during the midgame, but has limited utility; whereas Cunning Wish is too slow for the midgame, but makes an abundance of cards available, without clogging the maindeck.

[Mijorre]

O_o. How is 3 mana not perfect for mid-game? EOT cast wish for stuff. Next turn: win.

I would run 2 cunning wish over 2 Wrath of God or 2 STP, as those are generally redundant.

@ CorruptedAngel: You don't wish for echoes, you wish for things REMOVED BY echoes. It also fetches random red burn/kill/sweep Starstorm, though yes, it generally fetches utility. Like Stroke of Genius. I sure wish that card killed people. [/sarcasm]