[You Break the Card] - Land Tax

[Machinus]

I propose that you can't, but try anyway. Something concrete would amplify any forthcoming defenses of this cards fairness.

I think there are good interactions with the card, but Mox Tax go is way below the standard for competitive plays in this format (in case you don't get it, People In Charge are not at this point).

[Jak]

I too feel that it was a weak reason for them to not unban Tax. They ban flash because it was too fast, but then they say they don't like the game when it is long? I guess a Legacy Parfait deck would be pretty cool, but definitely not broken.

[Illissius]

I was idly musing about this in times past, and this is what I had as a start:

4 Brainstorm
4 Enlightened Tutor
4 Land Tax
4 Scroll Rack
4 Counterbalance
1 Humility
1 Solitary Confinement
4 Mox Diamond

More to come.

EDIT -- And we have a win condition! Meloku, welcome aboard.

[Pale Moon FTW]

I think the best thing you could do with Land Tax would be to pair it with Seismic Assault.

[Zach Tartell]

I think the best thing you could do with Land Tax would be to pair it with Seismic Assault.

That's a pretty poor idea. To generate :r: :r: :r: and then just play a million basic plains seems unplausable, and a bad game plan. I think the scroll rack is probably the best pairing I've seen with Land Tax.

[DrJones]

Also Ivory Tower.
Edit: And Zuran Orb.

[Machinus]

I was hoping people could update the deck by about 10 years : (

[bigbear102]

Ok, this is completely off the top of my head....

Mana:
4x Mox Diamond
4x Chrome Mox
14x Plains
1x Forest
3x Mountain

4x Land Tax
4x Solitary Confinement
4x Scroll Rack
2x Enlightened Tutor
3x Armageddon
3x Wrath of God
4x Swords to Plowshares
1x Life from the Loam
1x Seismic Assault
2x Zuran Orb
4x Abeyance
1x Regrowth

And 1 more card...

[Watcher487]

That's a pretty poor idea. To generate :r: :r: :r: and then just play a million basic plains seems unplausable, and a bad game plan. I think the scroll rack is probably the best pairing I've seen with Land Tax.

http://ww2.wizards.com/gatherer/CardDetails.aspx?&id=42

Sunglasses of Urza for the win!!

Anyway, with Land Tax it give you a basic land from your deck not a basic plains. Besides, I would definatly play Parfait if Land Tax was available.

[Tacosnape]

This is a ridiculous thread. Hyperbole and random brainstorming are insufficient to prove a card isn't breakable.

Anything capable of generating card advantage of 3 cards per turn for a one-time investment of a single mana doesn't belong.

[Silverdragon]

http://www.starcitygames.com/php/news/article/10898.html
Number 2 and 3
The best I can think of would be an Angel Stompy variant with lots of Armageddon effects. Or maybe a more control oriented build like Parfait only more ressource denial.

[HPC]

Everything that Land Tax does is more annoying for an opposing player than broken.

There's some good stuff you can do with the card to draw, Brainstorm, Ideas Unbound, Scroll Rack. It speeds up Stasis by providing a turn 1 draw permanent instead of Howling Mine. It helps feed Solitary Confinement starting turn 1, and is in color w/ Confinement -- but I can't think of anything that makes Land Tax hands down better than Life from the Loam. Each have their drawbacks - Tax relies on your opponent's land count, Loam takes mana and your GY. It speeds your achievement of 2+ mana over your opponents after an Armageddon. Counterbalance decks would be more annoying with Tax + Rack.

So that's pretty much everything you can do with Land Tax. Unbanning it might add some random recovery or speed to control decks like Keeper, Confinement and Stasis. None of which is broken. The worst effect unbanning Land Tax could create is letting everyone think it's strong because it was once banned and in turn creates a flood of slow boring control games.


This is a ridiculous thread. Hyperbole and random brainstorming are insufficient to prove a card isn't breakable.

Anything capable of generating card advantage of 3 cards per turn for a one-time investment of a single mana doesn't belong.

If you can't prove a card is broken then it shouldn't be on the ban list. Otherwise you might as well say things like:

"Anything capable of free-casting practically any card in your hand every turn for a one-time investment of a single mana doesn't belong."

or

"Anything resembling a Black Lotus should never be allowed in the format."

I'm sure any of us could create a card with a sufficient disadvantage that would make your statement false. Land Tax may be powerful when combined with the right cards, but at best it's a 2 card combo that doesn't win the game. I just can't agree with banning Land Tax unless Lackey and LED are also banned.

[freakish777]

Why are these lists going all basics? Yes, I know how Land Tax works...


4 Mox Diamond
7 Plains
1 Wooded Foothills
4 Windswept Heath
2 Forest
2 Mountain
3 Savannah
1 Taiga
4 Plateau

4 Exploration
4 Land Tax
4 Solitary Confinement
3 Life from the Loam
4 Scroll Rack
4 Enlightened Tutor
3 Siesmic Assault
2 Zuron Orb
4 Burning Wish
3 Devastating Dreams
3 Nostalgic Dreams
X other cards


Seriously, you don't need 20+ basics to break Land Tax, if you have 3 more basic lands in your deck, it's Ancestral Recall as far as quantity goes. 10 or so will do just fine. Tax + Devastating Dreams also seems redic. Hey you were on the play, so I'll fetch Plateau in my first turn and play Tax. You "call my bluff" play a land, and "play through it." I get 3 basics, later in the game, I play Devastating to not only wreck your position, but if you attempt to fix it, to make sure I come back better than you can. Not only that, but I have a pretty good chance of having discarded some crappy basics I didn't want anyways from the initial Land Tax you gave me, and I can get them back sometime later with Loam anyways.

[mikekelley]

I find it hard to believe that anyone actually wants this card back in the format.

Whoever said this is a ridiculous thread full of bogus hyperbole (i think it was taco) hit the nail on the head.

Stop talking (or typing) for the sake of hearing (seeing) yourself.

[Bane of the Living]

I find it hard to believe that anyone actually wants this card back in the format.

Whoever said this is a ridiculous thread full of bogus hyperbole (i think it was taco) hit the nail on the head.

Stop talking (or typing) for the sake of hearing (seeing) yourself.

Look how pissed Land Tax makes people. Seriously. Thats the reason its banned. Didnt they say something to that degree?

Life from the Loam made Land Tax completely obsolete.

[Machinus]

This is a ridiculous thread. Hyperbole and random brainstorming are insufficient to prove a card isn't breakable.

Land Tax has been around for 13 years. If you can't break it now, I think it's safe to say it's not good.


Anything capable of generating card advantage of 3 cards per turn for a one-time investment of a single mana doesn't belong.

Lackey and Vial both do better and they are fair. I suggest you re-examine your standards.

[MattH]

You should try Belcher as your kill. Also, if you want something else that might be cute enough to be breakable, Planar Birth.

[edgewalker]

Do people honestly think Land Tax is broken, machinus was right, it's been around for 13 years and parfait wasn't degenerate. Besides, what does parfait do that Wombat and Rifter can't. Anyone can beat a deck that hoses aggro and control, but they roll over to combo, Land tax doesn't make those decks any better against the decks they have trouble with.

With regards to Planar Birth, there are cute interaction, but nothing broken, Land Tax puts the lands into your hand you need something to put them into your yard. I remember playing a Land Tax+Seismic Assault+Planar Birth+Trade Routes deck. Let me tell you it was sick(not really) I beat it with PMS(which played land tax) back when PMS was somewhat good. PMS being a deck that either won by going 1-0 or 1-1 with time ending in the round. I've gone to time more times with that deck that anything I've ever played. If that can beat 1337 Land Tax tricks, I think it's safe to say most competative decks can too.

[legacyplayer0]

I'd try something along the lines of this:

4 Land Tax
4 Trinket Mage
4 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Zuran Orb
1 Ivory Tower
1 Pithing Needle
1 Engineered Explosives
4 Counterbalance
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
1 Meloku
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Predict

4 Tundra
1 Seat of the Synod
1 Ancient Den
4 Flooded Strand
8 Island
6 Plains

[DrJones]

It also has sinergy with Empyreal Plate and Aeon Chronicler.

[Finn]

Land Tax makes Devastating Dreams into 2/3 of Balance. Don't bother arguing becuse I played this deck for almost 3 years. It ends the game at 2 mana when it resolves.

[Machinus]

Don't bother arguing becuse I played this deck for almost 3 years.

It's that obvious huh?

I really thought people could come up with better tech than Scroll Rack. The card is banned so there shouldn't be any reason for people to hoard lists.

So far this thread is an amazing case for taking Land Tax off the list.

[sammiel]

I've come up with some good decks...but certainly nothing format breaking. Land Tax is old news.

My best creation so far was R/W for seismic assault, devastating dreams, and burning wish. Might splash blue for meloku.

[Finn]

What do you mean, Chris? Sometimes you can be hard to understand.

[DrJones]

9 land white weenie?

[Bongo]

Tax Confinement Control

Engine:
4x Land Tax
2x Scroll Rack
1x Zuran Orb
1x Soldevi Digger
2x Argivian Find
2x Enlightened Tutor

Creature Control:
4x Swords to Plowshares
2x Humility
2x Solitary Confinement

Lock:
4x Isochron Scepter
4x Orim’s Chant
4x Abeyance

Utility:
2x Planar Birth
2x Abolish

Wincondition:
2x Goblin Charbelcher

Mana:
14x Plains
4x Mox Diamond
4x Lotus Petal


This is just a rough draft. I wouldn't underestimate Land Tax.

Stuff like Hermit Druid and Earthcraft seems a lot more unbannable to me.

[(nameless one)]

Noob question:

In a right deck, can a Land Tax actually win you games by turn one or turn two. If so, how consistent would it be?

Isn't it any different from any combo deck out there anyways?

[HdH_Cthulhu]

Turn 1 you get nothing from Land Tax. Turn 2 on the draw you get 3 basics. I dont see a way how 3 basic lands enable you a win.

Land Tax could be good in a control deck, but it is not a "fast combo card".

[Nessaja]

Lackey and Vial both do better and they are fair. I suggest you re-examine your standards.
Do you know the difference between card advantage and cheating cards into play?

Land Tax can ensure both deck thinning (increasing card quality) as well as making sure you'll have a land drop every turn at the cost of a single mana. For control, that's just a really strong effect.

That said, I don't think anyone will break the card to the point that Land Tax will single handedly break the format a la Hulk Flash. But I'm fairly certain it will improve every deck that it's in by a large amount, its powerlevel is high enough for that.

[Peter_Rotten]

Necro the Land Tax thread? Um, no. (http://sadtrombone.com/)