[Deckbuilding] AggroThresh

[Phantom]

Not 100% sure there's a deck here, but recent testing with Threshold has shown me that 'goyf isn't just good, it's really, really good (really). Anyway, I thought that this gave green a pretty solid aggro creature base which relied on the yard (or added to it), but could beat down quickly:

Tarmogoyf
Nimble Mongoose
Dryad
Werebear (maybe)
Wild Mongrel (seems logical)

Since this is going to be an aggro deck, red seems a good splash for burn:

Bolt (in)
Chain Lightning (in)
Fire/Ice (maybe)
Magma Jet (I like it more than F/I in general, but it may not be true here)

Now, since we can't run just G/R in Legacy (see the thread "Combo Summer") we will need a third splash to help the combo matchup. While white would give us Orim's Chant, it takes us in more of a controlling direction. Black gives us the ever tempting Duress and Therapy, but I'm more tempted by blue:

Mantal Note (in)
Brainsorm (in)
Serum Visions (hmmm. I like that it's another sorcery, but too many inactive draw spells might slow the deck down. Of course, I only run one 1-drop...)
Daze (seems great)
Spell Snare (Don't want to keep then man open)
FoW (I wish, but stocking an aggro deck full of blue cards for force seems foolish)
Stifle (I want to fit Wasteland in, so Stifle sounds nice Also, helps the combo matchup I hope)

Anyway, here's an untested build:


//Creatures (16)
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Nimble Mongoose
3 Dryad
2 Werebear
3 Wild Mongrel

//Burn (8)
4 Bolt
4 Chain Lightning

// Spells (16)
3 Mental Note
4 Brainstorm
2 Serum Visions
4 Stifle
3 Daze

//Mana (20)
4 Wasteland
2 Volcanic Island
3 Tropical Island
4 Flooded Strand
4 Wooded Foothills
1 Island
1 Forest
1 Mountain


Anyway, I figured I'd get some thoughts before I ran it though a gauntlet. Am I splashing the right colors? Running the right creatures? Crazy for trying?

[Tacosnape]

Oh what the hell. I wasn't going to post this, but since you made the thread.

Here's a deck I've been working on called CMFT. CMFT stands for Counterbalance Madness Fish Threshold, and while the name is semi-misleading since the deck only runs one actual Threshold creature anymore, it sticks nonetheless.

4 Tarmogoyf
3 Wild Mongrel
2 Aquamoeba
1 Nimble Mongoose
4 Basking Rootwalla
3 Meddling Mage

3 Counterbalance
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
4 Careful Study
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Daze
2 Pithing Needle

4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
4 Tropical Island
4 Tundra
1 Island

SB:
3 Armageddon
3 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Hydroblast
1 Meddling Mage
1 Counterbalance
2 Krosan Grip
2 Loaming Shaman

I don't have enough data on it to post coherent match results yet, but I've more or less destroyed almost everything I've faced to this point. I've been rocking Combo, rocking Goblins, rocking Survival, rocking Suicide Black, rocking Stax, and rocking Threshold with it thus far. I even stole a few wins against decks like Landstill and Train Wreck thanks to Counterbalance and Armageddon.

I'll post a thread when I've got some more data.

[Mordenkain]

4 Tarmogoyf
3 Wild Mongrel
2 Aquamoeba
1 Nimble Mongoose
4 Basking Rootwalla
3 Meddling Mage

3 Counterbalance
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
4 Careful Study
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Daze
2 Pithing Needle

4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
4 Tropical Island
4 Tundra
1 Island

SB:
3 Armageddon
3 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Hydroblast
1 Meddling Mage
1 Counterbalance
2 Krosan Grip
2 Loaming Shaman

That list is fucking sweet man. Seriously, fucking sweet. It really looks like it's tweaked and teched out. Only thing I somewhat can point a finger at should be:

1 Nimble Mongoose

Why only one? I mean, come on man, its fucking goose, it's incredibly good, should at least be a 3 of. Or 2 of. But really shouldn't be 1 of. Period.

Has 2 Loaming Shaman in the SB been enough for you to fight graveyard dependant decks? I usually side in 4 Tormod's Crypt and still want to see more.

Can you give any ideas about how this performes again Loam/Truffle Shuffle type decks?

Anyways, all in all, fucking sweet deck man. How come you haven't posted it before now?

[Tacosnape]

That list is fucking sweet man. Seriously, fucking sweet. It really looks like it's tweaked and teched out. Only thing I somewhat can point a finger at should be:

1 Nimble Mongoose

Why only one? I mean, come on man, its fucking goose, it's incredibly good, should at least be a 3 of. Or 2 of. But really shouldn't be 1 of. Period.


It was 0. The last one got added because he was better than the 4th Mongrel. He doesn't go with the Jitte, for one thing, but the random Mongoose is pretty damn good.


Has 2 Loaming Shaman in the SB been enough for you to fight graveyard dependant decks? I usually side in 4 Tormod's Crypt and still want to see more.

Honestly, I'm not entirely sure yet. I've only played against three graveyard dependent decks so far: Iggy Pop, UGW Threshold, and that bizarre Manaless Ichorid deck. Despite my Graveyard hate doing nothing to Iggy Pop, I was able to take it down 2-1 (Counterbalance and Mage are gooood). I beat UGW Threshold twice (Both 2-0) in games that were closer than the results show, where the Loaming Shaman came up once and was pretty pivotal in shrinking twin Mongeese. The Ichorid deck was a cakewalk.


Can you give any ideas about how this performes again Loam/Truffle Shuffle type decks?

As far as Truffle Shuffle goes, I'd say better than Threshold, but still probably not favorable. All blue-based aggro control decks struggle against all black-based control decks. Armageddon is dynamite here if you can hold a threat on the table. I played against Train Wreck rather than Truffle Shuffle and lost the first match 0-2 but got the second 2-1, both thanks to Armageddon. Truffle's curve is lower and should be slightly more difficult.

Loam is untested at this point. I'm going to take a wild guess and say it's actually going to be favorable. Nothing screws up the entire Loam Control deck and engine more effectively than Counterbalance.



Anyways, all in all, fucking sweet deck man. How come you haven't posted it before now?

I just built it a few days ago. I don't generally like to post stuff until I've got results behind it. But yeah, I've destroyed almost everything I've come across.

[C-Aleric]

@ Tacosnape

Nice deck. I've been trying to find the list that Goyf is going to dominate in for a while. I posted my random 4 color fish deck with no replies, and it has a similar goal like this deck. It is less aggro in game one than this list, and uses Duress/Meddling Mage to try to get an edge in game one against combo (not that those two cards are dead together ever). Game two/three, I have Counterbalance/Top in the board (most recent build), and some other random utility slots. Similarly to your comment about beating everything, I've had extraordinary results with decks that just abuse good cards.

That's what your list is doing, for sure. Abusing generally overpowered cards. Good clock with an early Force wins several games.

It seems like perhaps that one Mongoose could be a win-more card, like Wonder or something. Since you run the discard outlets, and only 4 cards that abuse madness, it may be worth using your one of as something more devastating to your opponents. Who doesn't want a Goyf with wings?

To me, it just seems like running 3 Mongrel/2 Moeba/4 Careful Study isn't all that necessary for a 1/1 that requires mana to be good. I know free creatures are good, however, you could run something like a 2 of Trygon Predator, since every creature you have is constrained on 1cc and 2cc. And then there is room for the 4th Meddling Mage, and maybe a piece of main deck equipment.

Anyway. All in all, looks pretty tight. I'm definitely behind the idea of this deck. Though again, Moeba is a pretty bad creature all in all if you aren't abusing it's discard to it's full potential. Mongrel seems much better in a list like this one. Discarding one card to become a 3/1, or a 3/3 that can still get bigger? Hrmmmm.

[Tacosnape]

Aquamoeba is incredible. I hated cutting down to only two of them. Originally that lone Mongoose was the third Moeba, but the curve worked better with the one Goose. Anyway, Aquamoeba is one of the strongest blue creatures in existence.

It's a madness outlet that pitches to Force of Will. It has a default toughness three, which is incredibly strong, giving goblins a hard time getting rid of it and a hard time getting 2 for 1 off a Pyrokinesis against you. And it turns any given card in your hand into a free Shock. It's significantly overpowered for costing a mere :1::u:, given that all cards in this deck are stronger if they're blue, and it lets me keep my Force of Will pitch count high. A mistake most decks make (AfFownity, Anusien's Pyroclasm deck) is running Force of Will without significant power to use it. AfFownity runs between 12-16 blue cards in the whole deck, and same for the Pyroclasm deck which doesn't run a single blue creature.

[Bane of the Living]

A mistake most decks make (AfFownity, Anusien's Pyroclasm deck) is running Force of Will without significant power to use it. AfFownity runs between 12-16 blue cards in the whole deck, and same for the Pyroclasm deck which doesn't run a single blue creature.

AfFOWnity runs exactly 16 blue cards. They arent reliant on playing FoW as countermagic however. They play Chrome Mox and often the right play is rfg'ing it to accel into a quicker win. Other times you capitalize off your opponent not knowing its there. Sometimes you need to hold onto it and draw into a blue card but it will be enough to save you from the Pernicious Deed. I realize it still has an issue finding a card to pitch but Ive always found its addition a charm regardless. When your opponent knows your playing FoW it changes their gameplan whether or not you can cast it. Ancient Tomb also lets you cast it hard style pretty often.

[Phantom]

I've been tooling around with the list Taco, and I love it. Only matchup I'm really having problems with is Goblins are just crushing me preboard (haven't tested any postboard). It seems like we have all the tools to handle them (except a sweeper/reset button) but they always seem to overrun me in the end. Ironically, my few wins have come on the back of Counterbalance, which is growing on me (I love countering SGCs with Forces).

Any tips or boarding suggestions?

Also, I have not been loving Careful Study at all (and I loved it in madness). Any thoughts on replacing it with Serum Visions (which is still a sorcery, but digs deeper)? I think with the draw and other creatures drawing the removal spells, 5 creature discard outlets might be enough.

[Phantom]

I've actually been getting pretty good traction with this list lately. It plays just nutty good cards:

//Creatures (16)
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Q. Dryad
4 Nantuko Shade
4 Dark Confidant

//Burn (12)
4 Bolt
4 Chain
4 Jet

//Discard (12)
4 Duress
4 Hymn
4 Therapy

//Land (20)
8 Black fetches
4 Taiga
4 Badlands
3 Swamp
1 Mountain

Amazingly simple. Threw the list together in all of a minute. All of the creatures are just nuts. With the exception of Confidant, they can, and have beaten for 5 a turn, and they are all 2cc. They are all fairly fragile though, so the full 12 discard and burn spells come in handy. Jet in particular has been nice as the filtering has helped a ton.

Only had time to do a little testing against Goblins. Went 3-4 preboard, but the sideboard should help a ton. I do run black and red after all, so E Plagues and Clasms aren't out of line. Explosives might not be bad mainboard either. Pros: are almost never dead and pump 'goyf. Cons: Don't pump Dryad and probably replace the burn, hurting my reach.

I'll try to get some more testing done to hone in on a list.