[Deck] Black Burn

[Cavius The Great]

Burn has always been one of my favorite archetypes ever since the degenerate days of Vintage where it basically ran rampant. Burn is decent even to this day but nothing near exceptional. I want to change all of that. Some of burn's main weaknesses include graveyard recursion strategies, faster combo and running out of steam. I thought to myself, maybe I can splash a color to compensate for all of these weaknesses. After much consideration the color black emerged triumphant. I recently designed a burn deck that splashes black for extra versatility which I rightfully named "Black Burn.DEC". Here is the decklist. Enjoy.

Black Burn.DEC By Cavius The Great

Mana:25
4 Badlands
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Wooded Foothills
1 Blood Crypt
1 Barbarian Ring
1 Great Furnace
7 Mountain
3 Mox Diamond

Creatures:8
4 Mogg Fanatic
4 Dark Confidant

Disruption:8
4 Duress
4 Extirpate

Burn Spells:19
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Fireblast
4 Lava Spike
3 Shrapnel Blast

Sideboard:15
4 Shattering Spree
2 Aftershock
2 Shattering Pulse
4 Red Elemental Blast
3 Engineered Plague

This list is rough and it's just aimed at getting the idea out there. Finally someone designed a burn deck that can deal with Graveyard recursion well and can stand a chance against combo.

Deck MVP's:

Dark Confidant: Awesome with burn spells. Burn deck's main weakness was running out of steam. Not with this bad boy.

Extirpate: Good against Reanimator and Manaless Ichorid and any other deck that relies on a particular card to win. Also good against control.

Duress: Why not run this in Burn? It's good against combo and stalls them long enough to win. What's not to love about this card in Burn?

Cards to Consider:

Chains of Mephistopheles: Good against combo and control.

Pyrostatic Pillar: Excellent versus TES and various storm based decks.

Chainer's Edict: Originally in the deck, I considered running them against stuff like Exalted Angel and Tarmogoyf which I couldn't normally burn away.

And many more cards I'm too lazy to think of...

I'm not saying this is the new face of Burn, I'm just trying to get your minds stimulated as I throw the idea out on the table. If you're a fan of burn let me know what you think of this idea. I hope to have an intelligent discussion and how this deck may perform in the current metagame where Manaless Ichorid, Reanimator and control decks run rampant. Let me know what's on your mind and let the discussion commence! :smile:

[Galroth]

I recently tested out an idea similar to this, accept instead of Burn splashing Discard, it was Discard splashing burn. Our decks really don't share many similarities beyond the initial idea and some blatantly obvious staples. Nonetheless, I'm providing a link to it for ideas.

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6292

I'm still working on the deck and I think there's real potential in this idea. Best hopes for your build also. An immediate suggestion, try out Grim Lavamancer. If you're willing to slow the tempo of burn by including cards such as Dark Confidant, Duress, and Extirpate, then a renewable source of direct damage is probably acceptable and welcome considering the lower number of damage spells.

[outsideangel]

That list is fairly awful.

For one, you're running 25 mana sources. 25. In a deck with a curve that tops out at two. No wonder you have trouble running out of steam. Traditional Burn runs around 18 lands, and actually plays more expensive spells than you do.

More than half of your deck does not kill the other player, and in Burn that's seriously bad. Extirpate doesn't even do anything in this deck. It doesn't buy you more time, it doesn't deal damage. Mox Diamond is awful, it costs you two cards, requires a stupidly high land count, and you don't really need it (you should be curving out just fine, or something's wrong).

Drop the Moxes, and 3-4 lands. Run at least 1 more Ring, too. Run Rift Bolt and other assorted good burn spells. Shrapnel Blast is too situation. Lose Extirpate, it's terrible. If you want another disruption spell for B, Cabal Therapy would work nicely. You could even get cute and run Marauders in the Blast slot for savage synergy. I don't know if that would make the deck good, but it would certainly make it a lot better.

[Cavius The Great]

I run Mox Diamond so I can get an accelerated kill and play my burn spells quicker after drawing cards off Dark Confidant. I also like Mox Diamond becuase I can play a first turn Bob.

I run Extirpate as graveyard hate. I agree with you that it's awful versus anything else, so replacing them with Rift Bolt might be a better option.

Are you saying my build is awful becuase of who I am, or do you really mean it? :wink:

[troopatroop]

I run Mox Diamond so I can get an accelerated kill and play my burn spells quicker after drawing cards off Dark Confidant. I also like Mox Diamond becuase I can play a first turn Bob.

I run Extirpate as graveyard hate. I agree with you that it's awful versus anything else, so replacing them with Rift Bolt might be a better option.

Are you saying my build is awful becuase of who I am, or do you really mean it? :wink:

The build is fairly awful, I agree. It needs to cut Extirpate all together, play more threats like Grim lavamancer or Jackal pup, and possibly cut Duress altogether. You don't have enough threats basically. You aren't playing Wasteland and you should. You have no draw outside of Confidant, which can easily be removed seeing as you play only 4 relevant creatures for removal. You play mox diamond? Why? Aggressive decks dont play an excess of land. Chrome mox would be better, Lotus petal maybe, but the general idea is that you don't need it. Not being fast enough isn't going to lose you the game usually, it's the risk of running out of gas, which I can see your list doing all the time. Take this scenario.

Mountain
Fanatic
Extirpate
Badlands
Mire
Lightning Bolt
Duress

You have 3/4 lands to spells, but you still have no game. You can stall them with Duress and Extirpate, maybe burn a creature and beat down with your 1/1, but even with a solid mana filled draw you have no way to win the game. How does this deck win outside of Confidant? You only run 19 burn spells. Most burn decks run 35, and even then they have trouble finishing sometimes.

Your deck is fundamentally flawed, imo.

[thebadmagicplayer]

I like the theory behind 'blackburn'. Curcumventing the mono-red version's weekness Vs. combo with something other than the deck's speed is a good idea. As you stated the list is just a rough idea for the direction you want to go in.
The list you presented has about 6-7 extra land in it. Also, extirpate is more of a side-board choice than a main deck one. And while I see where you are going with the mox diamonds, don't. They are just wasting space. yes they can speed you up a turn, but wouldn't you rather have another threat?

my list:


4 Badlands
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Wooded Foothills
1 Barbarian Ring
6 Mountain

4 Mogg Fanatic
4 Dark Confidant

4 Duress
4 Hymn to Tourach

4 Skullscorch
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Sudden Shock
4 Lava Spike
4 Rift Bolt

odd card choices:
skullscorch- red version of hymn. plus if they take the 4 it means they got somthing good in their hand.

Hymn- I'm a little unsure of this one. the double black needed for it is a little iffy bu that's what fetch lands are for.

sudden shock- kills mage and small creatures.

comments?

[ReAnimated]

If you want to run Mox so you can power out confidant and such why not just play Crome Mox and run less land?

[outsideangel]

If you want to run Mox so you can power out confidant and such why not just play Crome Mox and run less land?

Chrome Mox is even worse because it requires you to pitch a threat to it. Both are terrible here because they cost cards and you don't need them. You are supposed to curve out just fine. There's no reason to play Confidant first turn, he's there to keep you going once you empty your hand. You want to play discard and damage early, and most of that stuff costs 1. Trust me, Moxes are bad bad bad here.

[gmorakis]

I think a better idea is just to splash Confidant in a more traditional Sligh list. He is pretty amazing there in combination with Magma Jet and the Saclands, which ensure that you almost always draw your business spells. Plus, the extra cards you draw help to fuel your Grim Lavamancer and Tarmogoyf if you are playing those.

[Brushwagg]

If anything you want to run more Burn and forget most of the discard. Bob is really good and should stay in. If you need some disruption put it in the board.

I'm not sure why you need a ton of discard in a BURN deck anyway??? If anything you want something to help fill your hand up so that you don't run out of steam. Skeletal Scrying??

A few thinks you might look at though.

1. Rain of Gore: No life gain for your opponent at all.

2. Pain Magnification: Turns pretty everything in your deck to read "Your opponent takes 3 and discards a card".

[thebadmagicplayer]

1. Rain of Gore: No life gain for your opponent at all.

2. Pain Magnification: Turns pretty everything in your deck to read "Your opponent takes 3 and discards a card".

seems a little slow. I still like duress and skullscorch over pain magnifacation. as for Rain of Gore, it migt be a decent sideboard card.

[Iranon]

There are many many things wrong with this. Game 1, your opponent will usually spend his otherwise dead removal on your Confidant as soon as you play him.

Without Confidant, the deck will goldfish around turn 8. You have nowhere near the sufficient amount of control tools to get by with such a glacial clock.

I really see no way at all to make this approach viable without turning this into a completely different deck.

[Cavius The Great]

I was originally thinking of splashing black just for Dark Confidant so that I don't dilute the deck further. Maybe Confidant Burn.DEC might be a little bit more interesting.

[Zilla]

Consider Bob Sligh (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3206) for inspiration.

[Aggro_zombies]

Consider Bob Sligh (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3206) for inspiration.
The link is dead...

As for Pain Magnification, it seems like the definition of a win-more card. If you're doing that much damage per turn already, shouldn't you be in a good position?

Like Iranon has said, Bob will be a removal magnet, which means that nine times out of ten he won't live long enough to actually draw you any cards. The best way to handle that would be to either drop Bob entirely (and then you've got a traditional red burn deck) or add more creatures in to shield your Bobs from the brunt of the removal. Instead of a splash-red Suicide Black (a la Red Death) it could be a splash-black Deadguy Red. Seems like a stronger gameplan, at any rate.

[Cavius The Great]

Consider Bob Sligh (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3206) for inspiration.

Godzilla, I was just thinking on the lines of burn with Confidant and no additional creatures. Maybe run Duress to strip away creature removal. But yea, I was leaning towards more 'burn' than 'sligh'.

[troopatroop]

Godzilla, I was just thinking on the lines of burn with Confidant and no additional creatures. Maybe run Duress to strip away creature removal. But yea, I was leaning towards more 'burn' than 'sligh'.

4 Badlands
4 Bloodstained Mire
3 Wooded Foothills
7 Mountain
3 Wasteland

4 Mogg Fanatic
4 Dark Confidant
3 Grim lavamancer

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Lava Spike
4 Fireblast
2 Cursed Scroll

SB:
4 Pyrostatic Pillar
4 REB
4 Yixlid Jailer
3 Smother (Goyf)

There. Try that.

[Rastadon]

I'd go with Troop's list, execept I'd swap the Grim Lavamancers with Duress. Duress will give you an edge vs combo in addition to sweeping bob creature removal, lavamancer won't.

[Top Deck]

I used to play this deck a long time ago when bob first was out, but it was honestly actually slower than regular burn.

Playing bob doesn't let you play Fireblast, and that was the main reason why straight up burn was better, and oddly enough that's what made burn faster. You could multi-bolt them and fireblast them for the win. (turn 3 or 4). With bob, you have to wait to get bob online which is turn 3 at the earliest. If you run mox diamond then you could get him online turn 2, but in that version you might as well pack shrapnel blast (in place of fireblast).:eek:

Of course, your deck list is interesting because you are trying to approach it from both angles which I have tried and I have to add that it felt very clunky. Fireblast only works if you have two mountains in play. I would can the fireblast in your version and stick with something else like Sulfuric vortex or flames of the blood hand.

[Nihil Credo]

Another winning deck worth taking inspiration from, if nothing because it's got a much cooler name: Satanic Sligh (also a Norwegian design, which means it might qualify as the most metal deck ever).

Regionals winning list:

Lands
2 x Graven Cairns
1 x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 x Sulfurous Springs
4 x Blood Crypt
4 x Rakdos Carnarium
4 x Mountain
3 x Swamp

Creatures
4 x Dark Confidant
4 x Shadow Guildmage
4 x Withered Wretch
4 x Giant Solifuge

Spells
4 x Seal of Fire
4 x Volcanic Hammer
4 x Rift Bolt
4 x Char
2 x Demonfire
4 x Hit // Run

SIDEBOARD
3 x Rakdos Augermage
3 x Slay
2 x Seize the Soul
4 x Leyline of the Void
3 x Phyrexian Arena


You could port this stuff to Legacy and get something pretty sweet. Upgrade the manabase and burn suite, turn Shadow Guildmage into Grim Lavamancer, Withered Wretch into Nantuko Shade, and Giant Solifuge into... Giant Solifuge, or just more burn.

[APriestOfGix]

i think the deck should be more burn, with a black splash JUST for bob...

[outsideangel]

i think the deck should be more burn, with a black splash JUST for bob...

That's bad, though, because with Bob as the only creature, not only is he never going to draw you a card before he dies, but he's actually making their removal relevant. One of the strengths of Burn is that it makes many of the other player's cards dead. Include Bob and you lose much of that strength.

[Zilla]

The link is dead...
Sorry, it was archived. Check it now (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3206).


I was leaning towards more 'burn' than 'sligh'.
That's all well and good, but I think it's a losing proposition. By only having 4 creatures in the entire deck, you're basically saying "Congratulations, your creature removal is no longer a dead draw. And don't worry! You only have to answer four of them." If you're going to run any creatures at all in Burn, you might as well run a fairly high density of them, which will force your opponent to choose exactly where he needs to send his removal, thus increasing Confidant's likelihood of survival, which lets him actually do his job.

[Cavius The Great]

4 Badlands
4 Bloodstained Mire
3 Wooded Foothills
7 Mountain
3 Wasteland

4 Mogg Fanatic
4 Dark Confidant
3 Grim lavamancer

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Lava Spike
4 Fireblast
2 Cursed Scroll

SB:
4 Pyrostatic Pillar
4 REB
4 Yixlid Jailer
3 Smother (Goyf)

There. Try that.

This list looks fairly solid. Do you think that Slaughter Pact might be better than Smother since it's free, you take no damage from Confidant and lets you play burn spells to finish him off if you Slaughter Pact his Meddling Mage. Slaughter Pact should increase your tempo, which is always good for a burn deck and the "echo" cost isn't too bad.

I would also try to fit Duress in your build if possible. I also am unsure how effective Yixlid Jailer is, I'm not sure what it's good against, if you can clarify on this matter I would appreciate it.

[C-Aleric]

Yixlid Jailer I'm sure is for the increasing in popularity Ichorid, and Life from the Loam variants. Yixlid is pretty strong in both matchups. I'm sure he's more prone to get dominated against Loam decks, but its a problem they don't want to deal with.

Against combo, it might be nice jamming Duress into the board for when you're in the play. It's a great turn one play against combo, and can steal games against Belcher if you have a reasonably good clock. I realize it's not what this deck is trying to do, but against combo, Pillar is getting slow.

[Cavius The Great]

Yixlid Jailer I'm sure is for the increasing in popularity Ichorid, and Life from the Loam variants. Yixlid is pretty strong in both matchups. I'm sure he's more prone to get dominated against Loam decks, but its a problem they don't want to deal with.

Against combo, it might be nice jamming Duress into the board for when you're in the play. It's a great turn one play against combo, and can steal games against Belcher if you have a reasonably good clock. I realize it's not what this deck is trying to do, but against combo, Pillar is getting slow.

Yeah, I figured it was some form of graveyard hate, I just don't know how the card works. It's slightly confusing.