3CB #1- Welcome.

[Giles]

Welcome to The Scource's First 3CB Thread. I have been making plans to make one of these here for a while, an today is the day I start it. In my opinion 3 Card Blind one of the best formats ever. I am going to stop my little intro and get on to the game.

--------------Submission Deadline--------------
Please, PM your decks to Giles. Since the forums only allow for 20 PM's at a time you can also send me an e-mail to 3cbsource@gmail.com (be sure to inclued your username or it will not be counted). The deadline for submission is 12AM PST August 25th, 2007.

--------------Rules and Submission Guidelines--------------

Your deck is composed of 3 cards which all start in your hand.
Your library contains 0 cards and you don’t have a sideboard (Wishes fetch nothing).
Random effects always go in your opponent's favor.
You can see your opponent's hand, so you make the best possible play.
You don't lose as a result of not being able to draw a card.
You play each opponent twice; once going first and once going second.
For each win, you score 3 points.
For each draw, you score 1 point.
For each loss, you score 0 points.

Three rules restrict the kind of deck you can send. They are:
1.You may not submit a deck that can win before the opponent's first main phase.
2.You may not submit a deck that can force an opponent to lose more than one card from his hand per turn.
3. You may not submit a deck that uses a card on the 3CB banned list.

Other than the aforementioned, everything is handled exactly like a real game of Magic.

If you want to play, PM me a message with a heading similar to " 3CB Round #X", where X is the current round number. The format for the message should be:

Deck Name

Card #1
Card #2
Card #3

Any Random notes that you want me to know.

--------------Current Banned List--------------

All Ante Cards
All Promo cards not available on Gatherer/Autocard
All Unglued ad Unhinged Cards (exluding basic lands)
Emergency Ban: Force of Will
Wasteland
Ghost Quarter
Strip Mine
Glacial Chasm

Blackmail
Brain Pry
Coercion
Pulse of the Dross
Cabal Therapy
Abandon Hope
Show and Tell
Misguided Rage
The Rack

Form of the Dragon
Balance
Restore Balance
Barren Glory

Mesmeric Fiend
Nezumi Shortfang
Voidstone Gargoyle
Meddling Mage
Leonin Squire

--------------Current Watched List--------------
None at this time

--------------POTC (Points of Cycle)/ Winner Lists--------------
Instead of having POTM (Points of the Month) I will be doing POTC. A Cycle will be every 5 3cbs. (example cycle one will be 1-5, two is 6-10,... ect.)

Leaderboard:
None.

Winner List:
None

-------------Random Notes----------------
I want to give credit where credit is due and give Thanks to Death_By_Beebles for his rules and orginization skills that I stole.

Here are some stuff to read if you want not to suck:
Goblinboy's:
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=5310
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=5700
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=7544

Death_ By_ Beebles:
http://www.magicdeckvortex.com/mdvarticle0212.htm
http://www.magicdeckvortex.com/mdvarticle0232.htm
http://www.magicdeckvortex.com/mdvarticle0240.htm
http://magicdeckvortex.com/mdvarticle0247.htm

[Illissius]

Awesome. I love these. They sort of stalled out over at TMD because no one could or would figure out a proper way to celebrate #100 ;/.

Only one deck per player? I already have at least three I want to submit :(

[Giles]

Only one deck per player? I already have at least three I want to submit

That is right one deck per player. You can always play other decks other weeks.

[Nihil Credo]

Whoa, Form of the Dragon got banned? That's new to me. Were storage land decks so undefeateable?

[HdH_Cthulhu]

I join!

[zulander]

How are you supposed to win.. I'm completely confused. The highest CMC you could ever cast would be 2 since you can only have 3 cards in your deck... unless of course you have infinite mana. Which isn't covered in the rules... :(

[xsockmonkeyx]

You can use Lotus, Workshop, etc for things more than 2 mana. Also, you can run 3cc's in up to 2 colors with the Ravnica Karoo lands (like in Vindicate.dec).

[Sanguine Voyeur]

I remember this from other forums. I think the best one prebannings was Black Lotus, Savannah Lions, Balance.

[zulander]

You can use Lotus, Workshop, etc for things more than 2 mana. Also, you can run 3cc's in up to 2 colors with the Ravnica Karoo lands (like in Vindicate.dec).

Ah ok ty.

[Nihil Credo]

Storage lands (Fountain of Cho and the like) also allow to cast higher-CC stuff. Although it must obviously be damn good in order to be worth waiting that many turns (usually 6+, otherwise you could just play 2 Loti). Good examples of this are the banned enchantments Form of the Dragon and Barren Glory.

Edit: Sacul, the lists aren't supposed to be public ;) You PM them to the organizer, then the games are played out automatically. There is perfect information, so each game's results are deterministic.

[Sanguine Voyeur]

Edit: Sacul, the lists aren't supposed to be public ;) You PM them to the organizer, then the games are played out automatically. There is perfect information, so each game's results are deterministic.Oops...

I hope nobody else saw that. You know, except the five people viewing this thread.

[Tacosnape]

My deck is awesome. You're all going down.:P

Also, is it legal to use two of the same card?

[Jaynel]

I'll give this a try, I guess.

[Pinder]

My deck is awesome. You're all going down.:P

Also, is it legal to use two of the same card?

1. My deck is awesome. You're all going down :P

2. edit: Oops, you can have 2 of the same card. My bad.



I'll give this a try, I guess.


It's actually pretty fun, and forces you to think outside the box. Plus, what other formats are there where Black Lotus isn't banned but Forget is?

[Nihil Credo]

Duplicates are legal. I remember Black Lotus, Black Lotus, Visara the Dreadful being played.

@Pinder: I see you read that MTGS article ;)

[zulander]

I have 3 amazing deck ideas. I've used one of them as my own, and I'm confident that at least 2 of the 3 are amazingly good. Are there any prizes for this or just glory?

[Giles]

Status up date: I have gotten like 3 decks with force in in. I thought I copyed a current B/R list. But i did not. So a Emergeny Ban is needed. Force of Will is Banned. Force, Misdirection, Drayd makes the format like Flash at a Legacy GP.


Are there any prizes for this or just glory?
Right now it is for glory. Maybe later Prizes will be involved for cycle winners



Also, is it legal to use two of the same card?
Yes you can have Island, Island, Island if you want.


How are you supposed to win.. I'm completely confused. The highest CMC you could ever cast would be 2 since you can only have 3 cards in your deck... unless of course you have infinite mana. Which isn't covered in the rules... :(
Normally the Highest CMC is 3. Read the Primer on Lands (DBB's) and you can see how to build a deck.


I join!
PM a deck do me. You do not really need to "I join!" just send in something.


Whoa, Form of the Dragon got banned? That's new to me. Were storage land decks so undefeateable?
From my understanding Show and Tell was the top deck and every one played it.

[Tacosnape]

Status up date: I have gotten like 3 decks with force in in. I thought I copyed a current B/R list. But i did not. So a Emergeny Ban is needed. Force of Will is Banned. Force, Misdirection, Drayd makes the format like Flash at a Legacy GP.

That's ridiculous. That deck can easily be beaten by something as simple as Swamp, Vebulid, Vebulid. My Force/Misdirection/Dryad Arbor combo should be legal.:P

My deck's just tech against Saprazzan Skerry, Phyrexian Dreadnought, Stifle.

Fortunately I have yet another control deck up my sleeve that can beat all three of those decks.:P

[Silverdragon]

Additionally Force, MisD, Dryad Arbor looses to Mishra's Workshop, Trinisphere, Steel Golem and can only achieve a draw against Karakas + Leyline of Singularity. Even worse Leyline of Lifeforce + Fatty.

[Illissius]

Every deck can be beaten somehow, even those on the banned list... and even Lotus-Rack-Balance*. You just have to draw the line on power somewhere, and I agree that Force/Arbor lies beyond it.

(For the record, I was also going to submit that deck :<)

* it's not simple when it's on the play; try and figure out how

[Tacosnape]

Every deck can be beaten somehow, even those on the banned list... and even Lotus-Rack-Balance*. You just have to draw the line on power somewhere, and I agree that Force/Arbor lies beyond it.

(For the record, I was also going to submit that deck :<)

* it's not simple when it's on the play; try and figure out how

Commandeer + any two Blue cards beats Lotus-Rack-Balance.

[Sanguine Voyeur]

Arbor Force beats Lotus Rack Balance.

How long do you think it will take after the deadline is closed for results? I can't see it taking too long for each game, but it will probably be a lot of games.

[Lego]

I pretty much just assumed that Force was banned.

Also, is this Legacy only? Because if it isn't, my deck loses to a lot more than I thought :(


Commandeer + any two Blue cards beats Lotus-Rack-Balance.

Sweet. Design your decks around Commandeer, folks! Seriously, I don't think it beats enough of the meta for it to be useful. I'd play Commandeer, Misdirect, Force of Will though, just for fun.


How long do you think it will take after the deadline is closed for results? I can't see it taking too long for each game, but it will probably be a lot of games.

I was told results would be out by about Sunday.

[zulander]

Every deck can be beaten somehow, even those on the banned list... and even Lotus-Rack-Balance*. You just have to draw the line on power somewhere, and I agree that Force/Arbor lies beyond it.

(For the record, I was also going to submit that deck :<)

* it's not simple when it's on the play; try and figure out how

What isn't simple on the play, force/misd/arbor?

[technogeek5000]

This looks kool. I was sad when they stop doing these on themana drain.

[Illissius]

Oh, sorry. Yeah, Force-Arbor beats it. The last time this came up was before Future Sight. So the challenge was to get a win, not a draw (so Commandeer doesn't work), against Lotus-Rack-Balance, when you're going second, with pre-FS cards. It is possible.

[zulander]

you could always go arbor, misD, snapback. Beats their creature plan and the combo plan sortof. Seems a bit shaky though.

[Pinder]

Duplicates are legal. I remember Black Lotus, Black Lotus, Visara the Dreadful being played.

@Pinder: I see you read that MTGS article ;)

Yeah, my bad. You can use two of the same card. That's why Barren glory is banned, because Lotus/Lotus/Glory is pretty much instawin.

And yeah, I read most of those articles a while back.



Whoa, Form of the Dragon got banned? That's new to me. Were storage land decks so undefeateable?


Actually, I think it was Lotus->Show and Tell-> Form that got it banned. I might be mistaken though. And if SaT is banned now too, I think that Form probably shouldn't be on that list. Bu whatever.

I dare someone to play Black Lotus/Lotus Petal/Tomb of Urami ;)

[technogeek5000]

Yep lotus-show and tell-form was doing ridiculous on TMD 3cb and they banned it

[Giles]

That's ridiculous. That deck can easily be beaten by something as simple as Swamp, Vebulid, Vebulid. My Force/Misdirection/Dryad Arbor combo should be legal.:P

My deck's just tech against Saprazzan Skerry, Phyrexian Dreadnought, Stifle.

Fortunately I have yet another control deck up my sleeve that can beat all three of those decks.:P

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=1989259&postcount=3

That is why. Feyd is right.


I pretty much just assumed that Force was banned.

Also, is this Legacy only? Because if it isn't, my deck loses to a lot more than I thought :(


Well, it has it own b/r list, and does not have to worry about the vintage/ Legacy b/r list.

[mikekelley]

Bogus ban on force of will, lol

[xsockmonkeyx]

Oh, sorry. Yeah, Force-Arbor beats it. The last time this came up was before Future Sight. So the challenge was to get a win, not a draw (so Commandeer doesn't work), against Lotus-Rack-Balance, when you're going second, with pre-FS cards. It is possible.

2x Psychic Purge, 1 Nether Spirit?

[Giles]

Bogus ban on force of will, lol

Really, you have to joking me. It is the like the flash metagame. You are a idiot if you do not bring Flash or Fish.

[Illissius]

2x Psychic Purge, 1 Nether Spirit?

Will result in a draw, because the Balance deck can just choose to do nothing.

[xsockmonkeyx]

Sand Golem, Chimeric Idol, Storage Land ?

Something with Sand Golem anyway.

[Giles]

Sand Golem, Chimeric Idol, Storage Land ?

Something with Sand Golem anyway.

Doedecapod?


Status Update: With 21 deck we are off to a fucking good start.

[xsockmonkeyx]

Doedecapod?

I think you would have to sac the Decapod to Balance. Sand Golem comes into play EOT.

[Giles]

I think you would have to sac the Decapod to Balance. Sand Golem comes into play EOT.

Nope.

[SpatulaOfTheAges]

Nope.

Yes.

Dodecapod has a replacement effect that works instead of discarding it. So it comes into play before the final clause of Balance, and is sacrificed.

Metrognome, on the other hand, appears to have a triggered ability.

[Giles]

Yes.

Dodecapod has a replacement effect that works instead of discarding it. So it comes into play before the final clause of Balance, and is sacrificed.

Metrognome, on the other hand, appears to have a triggered ability.

I guess I was wrong.

But the true reason that balance is banned is that is violates the discard rule.

[zulander]

Really, you have to joking me. It is the like the flash metagame. You are a idiot if you do not bring Flash
Fixed.

[Pale Moon FTW]

This is a great way of playing some outside-the-box MtG, my only concern is that stall decks like Mishra's Facory + Ensnaring Bridge + Scalding Tongs seem a little overpowered.

[Giles]

This is a great way of playing some outside-the-box MtG, my only concern is that stall decks like Mishra's Facory + Ensnaring Bridge + Scalding Tongs seem a little overpowered.

3CB is the definition of the Metagame. Overpowered deck can only be Overpowered if the metagame allows for the deck to be overpowered.

[Lego]

Dang, I'm going to lose to Black Lotus ALL F-ING DAY. Let's get this thing started! :tongue:

[Nihil Credo]

3CB is also one of the few formats where Tarmogoyf sucks ;)

[on1y0ne]

So, how many do we have, when will the results be in, and does the winner get anything other than bragging rights?

I would love to see some of the other ideas that are out there.

[Giles]

So, how many do we have, when will the results be in, and does the winner get anything other than bragging rights?

I would love to see some of the other ideas that are out there.

With 11 hours til the dead line we have 29 decks. I want to have a prize, but as of right now it is bragging rights.

Status Update:
As stated above 11 hours til the deadline, and there is 29 decks in. I need to do some stuff, so the results/ and the start of number to will be most likey monday.
This next week I will need a lot of help, due to some major surgey that will be happing on friday. Thus, I will be high on pain medication and will go crazy. If you want to help me for a week (or two) or have an idea to make it easyer on me. Please make drop a PM to me.

[Jaynel]

Get well soon. I'm excited to see the results.

[Giles]

I thought I was going to get them up today. However, some delays happen. I promise to you I will get them up tomarrow and start #2.

[Nihil Credo]

Don't sweat over it, we're not in a hurry :smile:

/kills himself


PS: I'm available to help with the next batch, if needed.

[Giles]

So sorry about this. I have been hinderd so muched about doctor appointments this week. So I am going to post what I have thus far. If you want to take the 5-15 minutes that it takes to do your line that would be awesome. You do not have to do it, but it would be awesome.

Congratulations to _______ for winning Three Card Blind Number One: Welcome.

With ___ games this proves this is going to be awesome.

Deck Lists: (I have my own notes for every deck. If you want to read the notes for your deck, just drop me a PM. They are main what I think about your deck and the metagame and did you maximize you points!)

GOGO 4 Pages of Decks!

1. Giles

General Awesomeness:
Black Lotus
Preacher
Magus of the Moon

2. zulander

No Name:
Black Lotus
Phyrexian Dreadnought
Trickbind

3. Dissolution
No Name:

Black Lotus
Phyrexian Dreadnought
Stifle

4. TheMightyQuinn
Sick Dryad:

Unmask
Contagion
Dryad Arbor

5. Mad Zur
No Name:

Dryad Arbor
Unmask
Sickening Shoal

6. xsockmonkeyx
Black Lotus
Channel
Platinum Angel

7. clavio
Pox:

Pox
Black Lotus
Nether Spirit

8. T is for TOOL
Spirited Away:

Subterranean Hangar
Nether Spirit
Smallpox

9. BossOfTheGame
Smallpox:

Nether Spirit
Smallpox
Black Lotus

10. Sacul Kamadaka
No Name:

Unmask
Sickening Shoal
Dryad Arbor

11. Tacksnape
No Name:

Karakas
Isamaru, Hound of Konda
Swords to Plowshares

12. Technogeek5000
Death and taxes:

Leyline of singularity
Isamaru hound of konda
Karakas

13. Timmy, Power Gamer
No Name:

Fountain of Cho
Swords to Plowshares
Dark Depths

14. Lego Army Man
No Name:

Dwarven Hold
Maze of Ith
Fireball

15. Jaynel
//Zero Color Control:

City of Traitors
Isochron Scepter
Lightning Helix

16. NANTUKO SHADY
Zack Fine's Zonker

Mishra's Workshop
Ferropede
Maze of Ith

17. Pinder
No Name

Mishra's Workshop
Trinisphere
Steel Golem

18. HdH Cthulhu
Drunken Village

Treetopvillage
Eladamris Vineyard
Uktabi Orangutan

19. Frogboy
No Name

Saprazzan Skerry
Energy Field
Scalding Tongs

20. WiLdFiRe
Pow!

Black Lotus
Glowrider
Rishadan Cutpurse

21. Jander78
No Name:

Black Lotus
Echoing Truth
Flying Men

22. goobafish
No Name

Mishra's Workshop
Trinisphere
Wheel of Torture

23. Belgareth
tête- à -tête

Treetop Village
The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
Eladamri's Vineyard

24. on1y0ne
No Name

Peat Bog
Swamp Mosquito
Lightning Greaves

25. Nihil
Ponza!!

Mountain
Keldon Halberdier
Raze

26. Illissius
Great Pox

Black Lotus
Pox
Nether Spirit

27. Pale Moon FTW
Flash Wurm:

Black Lotus
Flash
Symbiotic Wurm

28. gnurbel2000
3 CB MUC

Foil
Island
Drifter il-Dal

29. hi-val
Bland:

Sheltered Valley
Blinkmoth Nexus
The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale

30. Bigbear102
Heilx

Lightning Helix
Isochron Scepter
City of Traitors

31. CynicalSquirrel
3CB Stax

Mishra's Workshop
Trinisphere
Epochrasite

For the people telling me they are free next week look at your PMs.

[Sanguine Voyeur]

I'll take care of mine, I'm about one third through now.

[Jander78]

Here is mine. Anyone can feel free to correct me if they think I fucked up.

Games Points
1. win/win 6
2. win/win 6
3. win/win 6
4. lose/lose 0
5. lose/lose 0
6. win/win 6
7. tie/tie 2
8. lose/lose 0
9. tie/tie 2
10. lose/lose 0
11. lose/lose 0
12. lose/lose 0
13. lose/lose 0
14. lose/lose 0
15. win/win 6
16. lose/lose 0
17. lose/lose 0
18. lose/lose 0
19. tie/tie 2
20. tie/tie 2
21. null 0
22. tie/tie 2
23. lose/lose 0
24. tie/tie 2
25. lose/lose 0
26. tie/tie 2
27. win/win 6
28. lose/lose 0
29. lose/lose 0
30. win/win 6
31. lose/lose 0

Total 56points

[Jander78]

Woot, 2nd place biznizzles!
Preacher is tech yo, stop stealin my dreads!
Those are not the standings. You have to match your deck up against the others and tally your points. Giles is saying that he hasn't had time to do this yet.

[T is for TOOL]

People have strictly better verisons of my deck. :frown: I totally blew the heavy Workshop -> Trinisphere prediction. Force getting banned didn't help either and, at least I beat Jander. I'll edit this later to include my matchups. I'm working on them surreptitiously while my boss isn't looking.

[Sanguine Voyeur]

1 Win Win
2 Win Lose
3 Win Lose
4 Draw Draw
5 Draw Draw
6 Win Win
7 Win Lose
8 Lose Lose
9 Win Lose
10 Me Me
11 Draw Draw
12 Win Win
13 Win Win
14 Draw Draw
15 Win Lose
16 Draw Draw
17 Win Lose
18 Win Win
19 Win Win
20 Win Win
21 Win Win
22 Win Win
23 Draw Draw
24 Win Win
25 Draw Draw
26 Win Lose
27 Win Lose
28 Win Win
29 Draw Draw
30 Win Lose
31 Win Lose

My score is 112 if I don't count my self.

My results are the same as Mad Zur. The Mighty Quinn has one less win (109) due to the fact that Contagion can't kill a Platinum Angel.

People have strictly better verisons of my deck. :frown: I totally blew the heavy Workshop -> Trinisphere prediction. Force getting banned didn't help either and, at least I beat Jander. I'll edit this later to include my matchups. I'm working on them surreptitiously while my boss isn't looking.Your deck is the only one that beat mine both games.

[Dissolution]

Dissolution - #3
(Deck #) (Play / Draw)
1. Lose/Lose
2. Tie/Tie (2)
3. -/-
4. Win/Lose (3)
5. Win/Lose (3)
6. Lose/Lose
7. Lose/Lose
8. Win/Win (6)
9. Lose/Lose
10. Win/Lose (3)
11. Lose/Lose
12. Lose/Lose
13. Lose/Lose
14. Lose/Lose
15. Win/Win (6)
16. Lose/Lose
17. Win/Lose (3)
18. Win/Lose (3)
19. Win/Lose (3)
20. Lose/Lose
21. Tie/Tie (2)
22. Win/Tie(4)
23. Lose/Lose
24. Win/Win (6)
25. Win/Win (6)
26. Lose/Lose
27. Win/Win (6)
28. Tie/Tie (2)
29. Lose/Lose
30. Win/Win (6)
31. Win/Lose (3)

Total: 67 points

I'm kind of sad no one played Daze, my reason for using Stifle over Trickbind.

[Nihil Credo]

(EDIT: didn't notice 22.goobafish's deck was a "draw with goldfish" deck.)
(EDIT2: Tacosnape's correction.)

Total: 94 points. I guess that's a decent result, although there were more Lotus decks than I expected. But thankfully not as many Trinisphere decks as I feared.

For the next round, are you OK with everyone doing his own calculations, like we are doing right now? Illissius and I volunteered to help, we will double-check for controversial match results.

1. LL
2. LL
3. LL
4. DD
5. DD
6. LL
7. DD
8. WW
9. DD
10. DD
11. DD
12. WW
13. WW
14. DD
15. WW
16. WW
17. LL
18. WW
19. WW
20. WW
21. WW
22. DD
23. DD
24. WW
25. --
26. DD
27. LL
28. DD
29. WW
30. WW
31. LL


Non-obvious matchups

7: If I play something first, I clearly lose, so I must wait; effectively, Clavio is always on the play. Whether Clavio Poxes or hardcasts Nether Spirit, he can't kill me before I resolve a Halberdier, at which point we will both have unkillable blockers on board.

9: Same as 7.

19: Raze gets rid of Energy Field.

20: I can just sac the Mountain to Cutpurse, and I race Turn 1 Glowrider.

23: I can't race if I Raze the Tabernacle (or pay for it), so I must Raze the tapped Village and force a draw.

28: Raze can kill Drifter il-Dal (which can't race anyway), so he must force the Halberdier for the draw.

[TheMightyQuinn]

My score is 112 if I don't count my self.

My results are the same as Mad Zur. The Mighty Quinn has one less win (109) due to the fact that Contagion can't kill a Platinum Angel.

Oh cool! Is the deck the three of us used an established 3CB deck? I came up with my list independently, which is why I have the suboptimal choice of Contagion over the Shoal. This was my first 3CB ever. I find it incredibly interesting.

EDIT: I even had "Sick" in my deck name and I didn't think of Sickening Shoal. :/

[T is for TOOL]

Here are my preliminary results. Someone contact me if I messed up. It's probably easiest if we all oversight each other's evaluations of our particular matchups to ensure correctness.

1. loss/loss 0
2. loss/loss 0
3. loss/loss 0
4. win/win 6
5. win/win 6
6. win/win 6
7. tie/tie 2
8. Miror 0
9. tie/tie 2
10. win/win 6
11. tie/tie 2
12. win/win 6
13. win/win 6
14. tie/tie 2
15. win/win 6
16. lose/lose 0
17. win/win 6
18. win/win 6
19. lose/lose 0
20. tie/tie 2
21. win/win 6
22. tie/tie 2
23. lose/lose 0
24. win/win 6
25. lose/lose 0
26. tie/tie 2
27. lose/lose 0
28. win/win 6
29. lose/lose 0
30. win/win 6
31. win/win 6

Total: 96 points

Also, I find it humorous and worth mentioning that it's impossible for deck #22 to get more than 60 points.

[goobafish]

Also, I find it humorous and worth mentioning that it's impossible for deck #22 to get more than 60 points.

Yeah... I've done that a couple of times by accident :(, my other deck was smokestack, god's eye and workshop.

[zulander]

Dissolution has almost the same deck I have, so I'll just use his results as mine.

[Sanguine Voyeur]

Oh cool! Is the deck the three of us used an established 3CB deck? I came up with my list independently, which is why I have the suboptimal choice of Contagion over the Shoal. This was my first 3CB ever. I find it incredibly interesting.

EDIT: I even had "Sick" in my deck name and I didn't think of Sickening Shoal. :/This is my first too. I whipped up the deck in a few minutes, but now I think Unmask should be banned. The only time I went first and lost was against T is for Tool.

[Nihil Credo]

Goobafish, actually your deck can never win. You can't force an opponent to play his cards, so if they can't beat you (like I do) they'll just hold their hands and draw.

[goobafish]

Yeah I know.


Yeah... I've done that a couple of times by accident :(, my other deck was smokestack, god's eye and workshop.

[zulander]

lol goobafish, gg.

[gnurbel2000]

The internet ate my results ;(

I have 56 Points and went 2 : 2 : 19 : 7

[Tacosnape]

11. WW

You are wrong. We draw. Remember, I can see your hand. Here's how this works.

Me on the play: I pass and do nothing until your Keldon Halberdier hits the board. If it hits, I STP it, and you Raze my land so I can't ever cast Isamaru. If you choose not to play it, we pass turns back and forth infinitely.

You on the play: You either suspend Halberdier or pass and do nothing. If you pass, I pass back. If you suspend the Halberdier, I wait until it resolves, you hit me for 4, then I drop Karakas and Swords to Plowshares it, then you Raze my Karakas so I can't cast Isamaru.

Anyway, here's my results. Explanations of *'s are below, format is Play/Draw:

1. Tie/Tie. Magus of the Moon and Isamaru stalemate.
2. Win/Win. STP >> Dreadnought.
3. Win/Win. See Above.
4. Tie/Tie.
5. Tie/Tie.
6. Win/Win. STP >> Platinum Angel.
7. Tie/Tie*
8. Tie/Tie*
9. Tie/Tie*
10. Tie/Tie.
12. Win/Lose*
13. Win/Win*
14. Lose/Lose
15. Lose/Lose
16. Tie/Tie
17. Lose/Lose
18. Lose/Lose
19. Lose/Lose
20. Win/Tie*
21. Win/Win
22. Win/Tie*
23. Lose/Lose*
24. Win/Win
25. Tie/Tie (You don't win this, Nihil.)
26. Tie/Tie*
27. Tie/Tie*
28. Tie/Tie
29. Win/Win
30. Lose/Lose
31. Lose/Lose

Total: 77 Points. (Ehh. Stupid Trinispheres and Scepter-Helixes.)

7, 8, 9, 26: I pass and do nothing until he casts either Smallpox/Pox or Nether Spirit. In either case, next turn I go Karakas/STP for the draw.

12. What an amusing matchup. Whoever goes first leads with Karakas, Hound, and the other one will never get mana.

13. I lead with Hound of Konda and he can't get mana on Fountain of Cho before I untap with Karakas.

18. What an awesome deck. It took me about ten minutes of calculations to find out that I always barely lose despite Swordsing the Treetop Village and being able to bounce the Hound in the Orangutan fight.

20. He can only play one of his two guys. Hound of Konda wins the fight with Glowrider if and only if I'm on the play, otherwise it'll be a draw as I have to play defense. Cutpurse won't work as I simply sacrifice Karakas.

22. I outrace Wheel by dropping Puppy O' Konda and sitting on STP on the play (I'll win with 2 life remaining). I hold my hand otherwise though.

23. I only lose this if my opponent is a diabolical genius. I lead with Konda, he leads with Treetop. I hit him down to 18, then he plays Tabernacle, Vineyard. At this point, I bounce my hound EOT. He then has to alternate taking mana burn with me, as if he commits to the Treetop activation, I STP it, replay my Hound, and outrace him. So he has to wait to activate until we're both at 8 or less, then he kills me. On the draw, it's much easier for him.

27. Regardless of who goes first here, I can play defense long enough to survive all seven tokens.

29. The STP is useless. I win by dropping the Hound and going aggro every turn.

[Giles]

Here is mine. Anyone can feel free to correct me if they think I fucked up.

Games Points
1. win/win 6
2. win/win 6
3. win/win 6
4. lose/lose 0
5. lose/lose 0
6. win/win 6
7. tie/tie 2
8. lose/lose 0
9. tie/tie 2
10. lose/lose 0
11. lose/lose 0
12. lose/lose 0
13. lose/lose 0
14. lose/lose 0
15. win/win 6
16. lose/lose 0
17. lose/lose 0
18. lose/lose 0
19. tie/tie 2
20. tie/tie 2
21. null 0
22. tie/tie 2
23. lose/lose 0
24. tie/tie 2
25. lose/lose 0
26. tie/tie 2
27. win/win 6
28. lose/lose 0
29. lose/lose 0
30. win/win 6
31. lose/lose 0

Total 56points

All your Wins should be ties because they can chose to do nothing making it a tie.

[Nihil Credo]

@Tacosnape: Thanks, noted.

@Giles: Jander78's deck can cast Flying Men, it won't lose to a goldfish.

[Jander78]

@Giles: Jander78's deck can cast Flying Men, it won't lose to a goldfish.
But then I lose if I cast it. I think Giles is correct, I'm not entirely sure of how the rules work. I don't think it matters because my deck was quite horrible in the first place. Tool beat me, that should tell you something.

[technogeek5000]

Im pretty sure people dont under stand what my deck does. leyline of singularity makes all creatures legendary so I can choose to bounce any creature that i choose with karakas. I havent looked over all them but i know that i beat #3 because he plays the dreadnot and i bounce it then he cant play it again.

Edit: i also beat 20

[Dissolution]

Im pretty sure people dont under stand what my deck does. leyline of singularity makes all creatures legendary so I can choose to bounce any creature that i choose with karakas. I havent looked over all them but i know that i beat #3 because he plays the dreadnot and i bounce it then he cant play it again.

Oh, whoops, forgot that interaction, changed mine to Lose/Lose.
-T

[Belgareth]

1:LL
2:WW=6
3:WW=6
4:DD=2
5:DD=2
6:WW=6
7:DD=2
8:WW=6
9:DD=2
10:DD=2
11:WW=6
12:WW=6
13:WW=6
14:WW=6
15:LL
16:WW=6
17:LL
18:DD=2
19:WW=6
20:DD=2
21:WW=6
22:DD=2
24:WW=6
25:DD=2
26:DD=2
27:WW=6
28:WW=6
29:WW=6
30:LL
31:WW=6

Total:108

Changes possible :)

[technogeek5000]

wait which one is yours. Your supposed to skip that.

[Belgareth]

That's why 23 isn't on my list *rolls eyes*

[gnurbel2000]

...
28:WW=6
...


That's not right.

your deck needs to resolve Eladamri's Vineyard to win.
23. Belgareth
t&#234;te- &#224; -t&#234;te

Treetop Village
The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
Eladamri's Vineyard

28. gnurbel2000
3 CB MUC

Foil
Island
Drifter il-Dal

My deck would simply Foil your Eladamri's Vineyard so you can't animate your manland. Both games are draws.

[CynicalSquirrel]

Haha, my deck kind of sucks, because I kept thinking of Vial/Epochrasite, then eventually somehow completely forgot about Vial, so the deck basically just plays a random 1/1 dork that doesn't die. Of course, with workshop/Trinisphere the actual kill doesn't matter that often, so it didn't end up being a big deal.

I'll try to calculate my points later.

EDIT: Nevermind, I'm far too stupid to be able to calculate that stuff. :x

[Giles]

I will get the 30*31 games done tomarrow.

[Illissius]

I will get the 30*31 games done tomarrow.

Here's the results for my #26, which is identical to clavio's #7, and likely BossOfTheGame's #9.

01. 2-2
02. 6-0
03. 6-0
04. 3-3
05. 3-3
06. 6-0
07. 2-2
08. 2-2
09. 2-2
10. 3-3
11. 2-2
12. 2-2
13. 2-2
14. 2-2
15. 6-0
16. 2-2
17. 1-4
18. 2-2
19. 2-2
20. 3-3
21. 2-2
22. 2-2
23. 2-2
24. 6-0
25. 2-2
26. N/A
27. 4-1
28. 2-2
29. 2-2
30. 6-0
31. 1-4

Total: 88. That's a whole lot of draws :(. I didn't get 0-6d once, but in the grand scheme of points, that matters little. My win in #20 going first comes from just going Black Lotus-Nether Spirit, ensuring I win the race with Glowrider (I'm a turn slower if I Pox). The difference between Great Pox and Smallpox actually improbably ends up mattering, against Pale Moon FTW's Flash-Symbiotic Wurm deck (#27) going second -- Smallpox just loses, while I pull out a draw.

[T is for TOOL]

Against #20, Pox on turn 1 not only wins as well, but it does it faster than Spirit...

[Illissius]

You: Lotus, Pox, discard Spirit
Them: Discard Cutpurse
Them: Lotus, Glowrider
You: Spirit comes back
Them: Attack with Glowrider
You: Attack with Spirit
Repeat six more times: Glowrider wins the race

vs.

You: Lotus, Spirit
Them: Lotus, Glowrider
You: Attack with Spirit
Them: Attack with Glowrider
Repeat nine more times: Nether Spirit wins the race

Cutpurse and/or blocking just delay the inevitable by a turn.

[steffri666]

I might be super dumb here (actually I'm just really bored) but why don't you just block with Spirit and kill glowrider dead. It's not like hes coming back like Spirit does.
If I don't see the obvious here pls let me know.

[Sanguine Voyeur]

...
10. 3-3
...Not quite, on the play I Unmask taking your Lotus, play Dryad Arbor and win. The same goes for #5 and #4.

When you're on the play, you go Lotus, Pox and I lose.

[TheMightyQuinn]

Your first example would be a draw, wouldn't it? The controller of the Spirit could choose not to attack, which means if Glowrider attacks, it dies and it's controller loses. Since Glowrider has already gotten one attack in the Spirit can't attack back or it will lose the race. Thus, a draw.

I think you're right about the second example though. Spirit wins no matter how you look at it.

[T is for TOOL]

Your first example would be a draw, wouldn't it? The controller of the Spirit could choose not to attack, which means if Glowrider attacks, it dies and it's controller loses. Since Glowrider has already gotten one attack in the Spirit can't attack back or it will lose the race. Thus, a draw.

I think you're right about the second example though. Spirit wins no matter how you look at it.Negative. Glowrider either swings into Spirit and dies, or skips the attacks and allows Spirit to swing for the win. Not that it matters, because both plays win the game, but winning with Pox gets more style points than doing something lame like Lotus->Spirit.

[Illissius]

Wow. Glowrider doesn't actually have Flying. How silly. I have no idea why I thought it did since, well, ever. My bad.

Sacul Kamadaka: That's exactly what 3-3 means. We each win when we go first, and hence we each get 3 points.

[Sanguine Voyeur]

Sacul Kamadaka: That's exactly what 3-3 means. We each win when we go first, and hence we each get 3 points.I just assumed that 3 meant "I win." My mistake.

[Nihil Credo]

For an easier visualization of outcomes, I have set up a public wiki at the address thesource3cb.pbwiki.com (http://thesource3cb.pbwiki.com)

The password to edit is "3cbthesource".

There are currently two pages, the main one with the table of outcomes and another with the decklists. More will be added in the next rounds.

All talk about the 3CB game will remain on these forums. The wiki is only for ease of consultation and compilation.

[Sanguine Voyeur]

For an easier visualization of outcomes, I have set up a public wiki at the address thesource3cb.pbwiki.com (http://thesource3cb.pbwiki.com)

The password to edit is "3cbthesource".

There are currently two pages, the main one with the table of outcomes and another with the decklists. More will be added in the next rounds.

All talk about the 3CB game will remain on these forums. The wiki is only for ease of consultation and compilation.
No need to shout, Nihil.

I'll go fill out mine, Quin's, and that other identical list.

Edit: Done. What a lame 200th post.

[Jaynel]

bigbear102, care to do the honors?

[DarkAkuma]

Bah. I just found out about this thread, and its allready to late to enter in. =(

I wonder how Leyline of Singularity, Karakas, Dryad Arbor would have done...

How often will these things be going on? So I can pay attention and enter into the next one.

Whenever it is, i guess ill have more time now to come up with something good...

[Mad Zur]

12 Win Win
22 Win Win
I think those should be Draw/Draw and Win/Draw.


12. Technogeek5000
Death and taxes:

Leyline of singularity
Isamaru hound of konda
Karakas
We can kill Isamaru, but there's no way to keep Dryad Arbor in play against Leyline/Karakas.

22. goobafish
No Name

Mishra's Workshop
Trinisphere
Wheel of Torture
If he goes first and drops Wheel, we either play the Dryad and lose the race (taking one damage every upkeep and then attacking for one) or do nothing and draw.

I think all the others are correct.

[Sanguine Voyeur]

We can kill Isamaru, but there's no way to keep Dryad Arbor in play against Leyline/Karakas.Leyline doesn't make Dryad Arbor legendary.

If he goes first and drops Wheel, we either play the Dryad and lose the race (taking one damage every upkeep and then attacking for one) or do nothing and draw.You're right on that one. You, Quin, and I get -2 to our score.

[Mad Zur]

I should read cards. :<

[Sanguine Voyeur]

I should read cards. :<It's even worse when you do read the card and it lies to you. In MWS my Karkaras says it can bounce any legend.

That brings my (and by extent, your) total score to 110, I think we are still winning.

[Pinder]

I'll modify the wiki later, but everyone should double check my results to make sure I considered everything:

1 WL - 3
2 WL - 3
3 WL - 3
4 WL - 3
5 WL - 3
6 WL - 3
7 WD - 4
8 LL - 0
9 WD - 4
10 WL - 3
11 WW - 6
12 DL - 1
13 LL - 0 (/cry)
14 LL - 0
15 WW - 6
16 LL - 0
18 WW - 6
19 WW - 6
20 WW - 6
21 WW - 6
22 WW - 6
23 DD - 2
24 WW - 6
25 WW - 6
26 WD - 4
27 WL - 3
28 WW - 6
29 LL - 0
30 WW - 6
31 DD - 2

108 total points, if I figure correctly.


ninja edit: Oops, I actually draw with Belgareth. I forgot his Tabernacle kills my dude.

[Sanguine Voyeur]

Darn Pinder, you're the only one to have a score higher then me so far.

I still think that Unmask is too good.

[gnurbel2000]

27 WD - 4
31 DD - 1


For a doubledraw you get 2 points.
against 27 you get only 3 points for a win and a loss.
So you're still at 114 points.

27. Pale Moon FTW ---------17. Pinder
Flash Wurm: ---------------- No Name

Black Lotus ----------------Mishra's Workshop
Flash-----------------------Trinisphere
Symbiotic Wurm-------------Steel Golem

On the play you win obviously.
On the draw you have to fight 7 tokens with a single blocker.
7-1 blocked --> 14 life
6-1 blocked --> 9 life
5-1 blocked --> 5 life
4-1 blocked --> 2 life
3-1 blocked --> 0 life

[Sanguine Voyeur]

13 WW - 6 Should be Loss, Loss

13. Timmy, Power Gamer
No Name:

Fountain of Cho
Swords to Plowshares
Dark Depths

You on the play

Turn 1: Workshop, Trinisphere
Turn 2: Land
Turn 3: Steel Golem
Turn 4: Storage counter (1)
Turn 5: Attack for 3 (17)
Turn 6: 2 counters
Turn 7: Attack for 3 (14)
Turn 8: 3 counters
Turn 9: Attack for 3 (11)
Turn 10: Swords your golem
Play Dark Depths, win

Him on the play pans out basicly the same.
20 WW - 6Should be Win, Loss

20. WiLdFiRe
Pow!

Black Lotus
Glowrider
Rishadan Cutpurse

Him on the play

Turn 1: Lotus, Glowrider
Beat for 2 each turn
Win

[TheMightyQuinn]

But he can still play Steel Golem and win. Glowrider only increases the cost of noncreature spells.

[Sanguine Voyeur]

But he can still play Steel Golem and win. Glowrider only increases the cost of noncreature spells.Missed that, could have sworn it was a walking Sphere of Resistance.

[bigbear102]

1. L/L
2. L/L
3. L/L
4. W/L
5. W/L
6. L/L
7. L/L
8. L/L
9. L/L
10. W/L
11. W/W
12. W/W
13. W/W
14. W/W
15. D/D
16. W/W
17. L/L, unless trinisphere does not stop scepter, then I win both
18. L/L
19. D/D
20. L/L
21. D/D
22. L/L, see 17
23. W/W
24. W/W
25. D/D
26. L/L
27. W/W
28. D/D
29. W/W
30 ME
31. L/L

73 points??? I think I did it right.
Should be the same for Jaynel.

@ Jander: We end up drawing. On the play, I do nothing, then you do nothing, because if you do I win. On the draw the same thing happens.

@ Nihil: If I'm on the play I do nothing and pass. I wait for you to play your guy, if you do I kill it and we draw, on the draw it's the same thing.

[Nihil Credo]

@ Nihil: If I'm on the play I do nothing and pass. I wait for you to play your guy, if you do I kill it and we draw, on the draw it's the same thing.
You can't kill a creature in a single turn. You have to play your Scepter, untap, then activate it. Therefore I have a window to Raze your City of Traitors even if you wait for my Halberdier to unsuspend.

[on1y0ne]

Is there a booby prize for the lowest score?

[Pinder]

17. L/L, unless trinisphere does not stop scepter, then I win both


It does. I had to look it up.



Should be Loss, Loss

13. Timmy, Power Gamer
No Name:

Fountain of Cho
Swords to Plowshares
Dark Depths

You on the play

Turn 1: Workshop, Trinisphere
Turn 2: Land
Turn 3: Steel Golem
Turn 4: Storage counter (1)
Turn 5: Attack for 3 (17)
Turn 6: 2 counters
Turn 7: Attack for 3 (14)
Turn 8: 3 counters
Turn 9: Attack for 3 (11)
Turn 10: Swords your golem
Play Dark Depths, win

Him on the play pans out basicly the same.


Right, I assumed Trinisphere would cut him off from Swords completely. My bad.



27. Pale Moon FTW ---------17. Pinder
Flash Wurm: ---------------- No Name

Black Lotus ----------------Mishra's Workshop
Flash-----------------------Trinisphere
Symbiotic Wurm-------------Steel Golem

On the play you win obviously.
On the draw you have to fight 7 tokens with a single blocker.
7-1 blocked --> 14 life
6-1 blocked --> 9 life
5-1 blocked --> 5 life
4-1 blocked --> 2 life
3-1 blocked --> 0 life


Fucker's a 7/7? I suppose I should read cards, I though he only made 6 dudes.

[gnurbel2000]

I had nothing better to do, so i finished the list in the wiki.
If there aren't too many mistakes in it, then Giles won the first 3CB mtgthesource.com contest with 124 Points. His deck only lost to the Unmask/Dryad Arbor lists and WiLdFiRes Lotus/Glowrider/Rishadan Cutpurse list.

Congratulations!

Edit: Giles has 124 Points not 118

[bigbear102]

Ironic that the guy we all sent our decklists to happened to win the thing... I kind of assumed that he would not be submitting a list. Not saying he cheated, but just wondering how fair it is.

[Bovinious]

Well he prolly knows the format a lot better than most of us here do...

[xsockmonkeyx]

Ironic that the guy we all sent our decklists to happened to win the thing... I kind of assumed that he would not be submitting a list. Not saying he cheated, but just wondering how fair it is.

He did the same thing with the Infoninja 3CB. I figure its just his MO. Seems shady but whatever, its his tourney and nothing is at stake.

[on1y0ne]

My deck sucked ass. I did still manage to get 6 points from a couple of people. Those of you who were defeated by my shitty last place deck should feel ashamed.

[Nihil Credo]

AWESOME job, gnurbel2000. Could you please explain where Giles' six extra points come in from? I looked at his matchups again and couldn't spot it.
It doesn't matter for the purpose of this round, but it might for the sake of overall rankings.

Now, before we start 3CB #2, I'd like to discuss Sacul's question: Should a piece of the Unmask/Sickening Shoal/Dryad Arbor be banned? If so, which one?

I think the choice is between Unmask, Dryad Arbor, or neither; there is better removal than Sickening Shoal around, not to mention the deck could run Contagion in its place and lose very little.

- Unmask all but guarantees you can't lose on the play. The only way to win through that is to have either:
* a self-returning beater (basically only Nether Spirit)
* two win conditions that don't need the third card to be played (something like Factory/Factory/X or Arbor/Arbor/X)
* a land win condition that can somehow be protected from Sickening Shoal (say, Factory/Swamp/Duress)

That's a tough set of conditions to crack in order to go above 4 points. On the other side, Unmask on the draw is pretty terrible, so the USD player is left with a Sickening Shoal for 4, not quite a mind-shattering threat.

- Dryad Arbor: this one-card win condition is what allows pitch decks to exist. Without it, Force of Will decks probably wouldn't be much more powerful than a Foil deck - i.e. something that can draw very easily but has problems winning. Without Arbor, I can't think of a way to Unmask your opponent and still be able to win.
On the other side, a vanilla 1/1 is pretty much the weakest possible win condition ever. If any of your threats survive the black disruption, you're going to win.


So... what to do? My vote is to ban Dryad Arbor and unban Force of Will. Since winning gives 3 points instead of two, "safe" strategies that use pitch cards to stop the opponent even at the price of not being able to win yourself aren't really a good idea (as Gnurbel's deck proved). They aren't really much better than a "can't win" deck like Commandeer/Force/Misdirection, since their two leftover cards are unlikely to provide a huge threat (Black Lotus/Indentured Djinn is the best I can think of).

[technogeek5000]

I agree. Dryad arbor may not be powerfulm by itself but when you pair force and unmask to it, its realy over powered. When will the next one of these be, ill be playing another classic as it seems karakas leyline wasnt the right choice this time.

[bigbear102]

I'm not saying that Giles wouldn't have won otherwise, I just assumed that he would not actually be playing because we were all sending our decklists to him. I agree he probably has the most experience with the format and had a good chance of winning. Is there any way that we could make it so that he does not see the lists before making his list? Just a thought.

[noobslayer]

Eh, I would leave Arbor legal. I would just suggest unbanning more things and see how the whole thing shakes out. If an arbor pitch deck comes out on top, then you could reconsider it's banning.

[Nihil Credo]

If Giles isn't out of surgery by the time we've decided on the Unmask issue, my plan is that I - or anyone else willing to collect the decklists - will publish the MWS security code of my deck beforehand.

[Sanguine Voyeur]

I think Unmask should be banned, the only time I lost my first game was against the deck with a land mana base and Nether Shadow. Turn one unmask beats every deck powered by Lotus, every deck with out Nether Spirt, and every deck with out Dryad Arbor. Shoal beats the latter, and most other creature based decks.

Mind Swords should also be banned because it technically doesn't break the discard two rule; removing from the game isn't discarding.
I'm not saying that Giles wouldn't have won otherwise, I just assumed that he would not actually be playing because we were all sending our decklists to him. I agree he probably has the most experience with the format and had a good chance of winning. Is there any way that we could make it so that he does not see the lists before making his list? Just a thought.I agree, it would be like if Parcher had deciphered the deck codes (if that can even be done) and planed accordingly during the last Source tournament.

[TheMightyQuinn]

I think my total score should be 108 instead of 107. I'd edit it in myself, but I'm stupid and don't know how.

[Nihil Credo]

@Sacul: The rules say lose 2+ card, therefore they cover Mind Swords.
@TheMightyQuinn: I'd do the change myself, but I don't know which matchup needs correction. So: click on "Edit Page", enter the password "3cbthesource" and a username to let us recognize it was you who edited the wiki. Then make your changes and save the page.
While you're at it, remember to update your opponent's result as well. It's easy to spot, just look at the entry that is symmetric to the one you edited with respect to the diagonal line.

[TheMightyQuinn]

Theres nothing wrong with my matchup results. My points were added incorrectly. Its not really a big deal, since its only 1 off, but hey, it could pay off in the long run.

[Illissius]

I don't think there's any problem with Giles playing in his own tournament. It was standard practice with Godder's tournaments at TMD, and there wasn't ever an issue with it. (Granted, Godder usually just used his pet deck of Bayou - Duress - Thallid). There's nothing at stake, so no incentive to be shady.

Also, Giles's winning deck was the other one I was thinking of submitting. Oh well.

[gnurbel2000]

Giles additional 6 points are from the match against Pale Moon FTWs Lotus/Flash/symbiot Wurm.

He edited that he will lose both games, but you can beat the tokens with Preacher which gets control of a token to block another token.

On the draw it looks like this:
19 life 7 tokens eot-> Preacher 20 life
19 life 7 tokens eot -> Preacher + 1 token eot 13 life
19 life 5 tokens eot ->Preacher + 1 token eot 8 life
19 life 3 tokens eot -> Preacher + 1 token eot 5 life
19 life 1 token eot -> Preacher + 1 token eot 4 life
19 life no token left -> bashing with a single token controlled by Preacher

On the play there are 11 life left.

Edit: Hm, actually the game is more complicated than i thought. Pale Moon FTW can't win with attacking into an untapped Preacher so he won't attack. When Giles would take a token and attack into the remaining six then he would not be able to block a token on the counterattack, so there is no way to attack and reduce the number of tokens without losing the damage race. In conclusion the game has to be a draw so Giles has 120 points instead of 118 points and Pale Moon FTW has 70 points instead of 68 points.

[THEchubbymuffin]

i just found this thread, and i dont think dryad arbour should be banned, simply because he is gonna be in my round 2 deck :tongue:. also when is the approx time of the second round?

[Ridiculous Hat]

Just wanted to suggest something-- have you guys heard of "vanishing 3cb"? The way it works is that all cards in the winning deck are banned after each round. I've played in quite a few ongoing vanishing 3cb threads-- it's quite enjoyable.

[Pale Moon FTW]

That doesn't include mana sources right? Because then Black Lotus, Mishra's Workshop and the storage lands would be banned after a few rounds and then what can you do?

[Nihil Credo]

@THEchubbymuffin: So far we have 2 votes to ban Arbor, 1 to ban Unmask, and 2 to leave things as they are (assuming your vote was serious).
I'd suggest that once... say, ten people have voted it should be safe to proceed with round 2.

@RHat: Thanks for the suggestion, Ben. I've tried out Vanishing 3CB once and didn't like it that much... I felt that getting fundamental cards like Black Lotus or Mishra's Workshop banned in early rounds made the game much less random and fun.
In my opinion, the Vanishing rules are better suited to 4CB, which allows a much greater variety of deck ideas.

[Belgareth]

ban unmask, if fow is banned , unmask should be.

[zulander]

ban unmask, if fow is banned , unmask should be.

I concur.

[marit]

Banning arbor just seems stupid, the only reason it's even used is because of unmask. I would leave things the way they are, cards are only overpowered if the meta lets them be.

[Illissius]

Either Arbor or Force/Unmask are fairly useless without the other, so if one of them has to be banned, arguing that isn't very pointful. Force and Unmask were completely tame until they printed Dryad Arbor, and Dryad Arbor wouldn't see as much play without Force or Unmask. Banning Arbor isn't ridiculous at all, by the way, it's the first and only completely self contained win condition in all of Magic, which, for 3CB, is hugely significant.

Personally, I think we should try banning Unmask for now, in case there's an anti-Lotus Disrupting Shoal deck or something which is fair, but if we ever have to ban a third card because of the Arbor, I suggest unbanning the previous two and banning Arbor instead.

[Pale Moon FTW]

Banning arbor just seems stupid, the only reason it's even used is because of unmask. I would leave things the way they are, cards are only overpowered if the meta lets them be.
I have to disagree with that. What can you possibly do to not loose when on the draw against a Dryad Arbor-Unmask deck? It's a deck that can never loose when on the play. I don't think that such a deck should be allowed. I'd ban Dryad Arbor, a free creature that can deal damage just isn't fair in 3CB.

[T is for TOOL]

What can you possibly do to not loose when on the draw against a Dryad Arbor-Unmask deck?

Run 2 threats.

[Sanguine Voyeur]

Or Nether Spirit and a land mana base.

[Belgareth]

Oh because a power deck vs an anti power deck is so much fun ....
Flash vs-anti-flash teach us nothing ?

[CynicalSquirrel]

Shouldn't we at least wait until we go into a 3CB that has a defined metagame before we jump the gun and start banning shit? I mean seriously, this is the first week so it was basically just a crapshoot, and Dryad/Unmask happened to do well (although not even win). Now is where 3CB gets interesting, because we get to metagame to beat the Dryad/Unmask decks.

Every other 3CB I've seen has the deck legal, and it isn't a big deal there. Let's just be patient and come up with stuff that beats it.

[bigbear102]

Shouldn't we at least wait until we go into a 3CB that has a defined metagame before we jump the gun and start banning shit? I mean seriously, this is the first week so it was basically just a crapshoot, and Dryad/Unmask happened to do well (although not even win). Now is where 3CB gets interesting, because we get to metagame to beat the Dryad/Unmask decks.

Every other 3CB I've seen has the deck legal, and it isn't a big deal there. Let's just be patient and come up with stuff that beats it.

I agree.

[Happy Gilmore]

Additionally Force, MisD, Dryad Arbor looses to Mishra's Workshop, Trinisphere, Steel Golem and can only achieve a draw against Karakas + Leyline of Singularity. Even worse Leyline of Lifeforce + Fatty.

damn you!, that was my deck!

[Nihil Credo]

Ok guys, I have an exam tomorrow morning. I guess that, unless Giles comes back before that, tomorrow night (CET) I'll see what conclusion has been reached regarding bannings, choose a deck, publish its MWS security code, and start collecting decklists.

Unless I get drunk after the exam, that is.

(Note: DO NOT send me PMs until then. We don't know yet what is allowed, and my inbox is almost full anyway.)

[Lego]

Run 2 threats.

I drew to all those stupid Arbor/Unmask things :(

[Nihil Credo]

Ok, so "do not ban anything for now" wins*. I'm ready to accept deck submissions. Here's how it works:

1) DO NOT PM ME.

2) Put "[3CB]" (without quotes) in your email subject. If you do not, I cannot guarantee that I will get your decklist.

3) Send your decklist, in the same format you sent Giles (include your Source username!), to the email address of nihilcredo as hosted by the renowned provider Gmail.com

4) Deadline is set for... shall we say, 12AM GMT Wednesday, September 12th, 2007.


To preserve the integrity of this high-stakes tournament, my deck's MWS security code is d7cc91ab.


* Vote tally: ban Unmask 4 (Sacul, belgareth, zulander, illissius), ban Arbor 4 (Nihil, technogeek, pale moon ftw), wait for next round 5 (noobslayer, thechubbymuffin, marit, cynicalsquirrel, bigbear)

[Nihil Credo]

BUMP!

I have received only 12 decklists so far (ridiculoushat, center425, marit, pale moon ftw, 3eowulf, sacul kamadaka, belgareth, derek brown (willy wonka?), thechubbymuffin, xsockmonkeyx, mordenkain, illissius). Since I suspect some people have forgotten about the tournament, I'm extending entries for today.

New deadline is eight hours from the time of this post.

[Illissius]

I think the lack of a separate thread might have something to do with the underwhelming participation this time around... either that or changing the title of this one would be a good idea.

[technogeek5000]

lol im derek brown. I havent changed my Email in a while so sorry about that . I think that we should havve new topics for every 3cb.

[Sanguine Voyeur]

After the deadline, will the lists be posted, or is that just the submission dead line?
lol im derek brown.The English psychological illusionist with several tv shows throughout England and the States?

@Giles; I hope you're ok, surgery can be a bitch.

[DarkAkuma]

I didnt exactly forget about this. But I did mis-read the deadline I guess. For one, i'm not used to deadlines being in GMT. Also, deadlines useualy arent the first minute of a new day (12 am). Useualy their the last minute of a day (I.E. I thought 11:59 pm Wensday PST)

I did however completely forget what deck I desided on, so I submited one of the decks I was thinking about last round before I realized I was several days late.

Hell, even now I Just woke up and submited a deck, and I should be to late for the 8 hour extension...

[Nihil Credo]

Eh, those were probably mistakes (both not making a new thread and the ambiguous deadline). Sorry about that. Regardless, I think everyone who was interested will have noticed by now. I'll make a new thread and posts the lists there, as well as add them to the wiki.