[Deck] AFS

[thefreakaccident]

I'll start with the list first...

// Lands 23
3 Volcanic Island
4 [u] Tundra
4 [ON] Flooded Strand
3 [OD] Island (2)
3 [u] Plains (2)
2 [MI] Mountain (1)
1 [ON] Bloodstained Mire
1 [b] Plateau
2 [ON] Wooded Foothills

// Creatures 8
3 [ON] Exalted Angel
1 [AP] Rakavolver
1 [SC] Eternal Dragon
3 [CS] Jotun Grunt

// Spells 29
4 [A] Counterspell
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [IA] Brainstorm
3 [FD] Engineered Explosives
4 [4E] Swords to Plowshares
2 [6E] Wrath of God
2 [AP] Fire/Ice
3 [FD] Serum Visions
2 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
1 [GP] Shattering Spree
1 [IA] Disenchant

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [IA] Disenchant
SB: 3 [SC] Stifle
SB: 4 [PT] Pyroclasm
SB: 4 [PS] Meddling Mage
SB: 1 [SOK] Pithing Needle
SB: 2 [TSB] Tormod's Crypt


it is still being worked on by team funk's own Kevin Liu.

the deck is simply powerful (I think that is the only word I could use)...

it rapes both threshold and goblins and doesn't sit on its' ass against combo...

I have not even touched the list, I may have a slightly different veiw on these types of decks; but nevertheless it is extremely strong and I am unsure as to how it could possibly improve.

I haven't gotten a chance to test extensively, but I trust kevin and his extensive testing with the deck.


[B]Second will be the match ups:

Goblins:
game one is simply a dog fight, assuming that you both have decent hands and good pilots it will usually lean in the favor of AFS preboard. You need to keep vial off the table and counter ringleader and the creature control will do quite well at finishing the job (as well as your exalted angels and rakavolver).

postboard, you gain stifle and pyroclasm... I am unsure, but if I were to board I would board:

-2 engineered explosives
-3 jotan grunt
-2 fire/ice
+4 pyroclasm
+3 stifle

preboard is about 50-55%. post is closer to 70%.

Threshold (mainly white splash):

the match up that really counts... AFS has a lot of fun in this match up, seeing as it totally dominates threshold.

4 swords to plowshares
2 wrath of god
3 engineered explosives
3 jotan grunt
and 5 larger flying creatures, 4 of which life gain... do I have to say anymore?

postboard, you gain meddling mage... if I had to board I would go like this:
-1 shattering spree
-1 disenchant
-2 fire/ice
+4 meddling mage

you don't board in crypt because it doesn't affect goyf, and changing the size of mongoose by -2/-2 doesn't make much of a difference in the face of a 5/5 flier or wrath.

65-70% in your favor preboard... the same post.

Cret belcher:
you have countermagic, artifact destruction and a second turn answer to ETW tokens... does any control deck have this good of a much against cret belcher?
On a serious note, they have a few options to kill you... they get belcher out before your first turn without you having force action, or they ETW with you not having EE.

postboard gets even sillier, when it seems like you're a hate deck... you get mage, stifle, clasm, and disenchant.

I would board:
-4 swords to plowshares
-2 wrath of god
-2 fire/ice
-3 jotan grunt
+4 meddling mage
+1 disenchant
+3 stifle
+3 pyroclasm

preboard its like a 60/40 kinda deal... post its going to be rediculously hard for them to win, I would project it like 1 75-25 in your favor.


tendrils based storm combo:
to be honest, he didn't specify which tendrils based storm combo he was talking about; but assuming he meant TES I would have to agree with him.
he said he had a pretty good MU saying he wins more than half of those MUs.
I think the MU would be much better post, but that would be speculation.

I would board:
-4 swords to plowshares
-2 wrath of god
-1 shattering pulse
+3 stifle
+4 meddling mage

after board I would say it is looking pretty good for AFS, but then that would be speculation... I will classify this MU as unknown until kevin posts here.


that's the deck, it can be easily molded into whatever shape its' user requires of it... all depending on the meta.

If I were to run this in my meta, I would automatically include the counterbalance top combo to shut out all the various aggro control decks here (although I do not think it would need it).

hopefully this deck wil inspire some of you who might be uninspired at the moment.

This is a nice post. It's a shame it's poorly capitalized, because it makes it hard as hell to read. Proper capitalization is required on these boards, so please start using it. - Zilla

[Mister Agent]

Thanks for posting up the deck thread. Ive been talking to anarchy and noobslayer about it and i know both of them post in here regularly while anarchy did pretty well at the prelims and both of them think this deck is pretty good. I also have done alot of testing with this deck and i think it has alot of potential to be a good contender in legacy. Of course i love playing control in general. Great job by the way at explaining the deck robert. :)

Jotun grunts, wrath, and ee are all good against thresh's critters I have found all of them to be great against threshold. I especially think the ugr threshold build easier to deal with then the ugw threshold build from my large extensive testing of 30 games or so.

[MattH]

17 blue cards is low for consistent FoWs.

Why the 1 Spree/1 Disenchant split? You already have artifact removal in the form of EE, those seem like weak slots. Did you consider Orim's Thunder?

[Mister Agent]

17 blue cards is low for consistent FoWs.

Why the 1 Spree/1 Disenchant split? You already have artifact removal in the form of EE, those seem like weak slots. Did you consider Orim's Thunder?

Well the Spree/Disenchant split is for pithing needle mainly since alot of threshold decks run them in the main from my extensive testing against thresh and I like to make my EEs useful by providing relevant answers for needles. Although orim's thunder i have not tried yet I will probably give that a run see how it goes. One thing i can do about to make the fows more consistent is take out grunts put them in the sideboard and replace the grunts with stifles i originally had it that way at first just wanted to test it with grunts main for a little while. Thanks for the advice though Matt it is good advice and for the sake of testing some more here is my updated list.


// Lands
3 [B] Volcanic Island
4 [U] Tundra
4 [ON] Flooded Strand
3 [OD] Island (2)
3 [U] Plains (2)
2 [MI] Mountain (1)
1 [ON] Bloodstained Mire
1 [B] Plateau
2 [ON] Wooded Foothills

// Creatures
3 [ON] Exalted Angel
1 [AP] Rakavolver
1 [SC] Eternal Dragon

// Spells
4 [A] Counterspell
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [IA] Brainstorm
3 [FD] Engineered Explosives
4 [4E] Swords to Plowshares
2 [6E] Wrath of God
2 [AP] Fire/Ice
3 [FD] Serum Visions
2 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
1 [IA] Disenchant
3 [SC] Stifle
1 [AP] Orim's Thunder

// Sideboard
SB: 4 [PT] Pyroclasm
SB: 4 [PS] Meddling Mage
SB: 1 [SOK] Pithing Needle
SB: 2 [TSB] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 3 [CS] Jotun Grunt
SB: 1 [GP] Shattering Spree

Any thoughts?

[Cavius The Great]

Wouldn't Trinket Mage be good? You seem to have alot of targets for it.

[Illissius]

While I love me a Rakavolver, why the 3/1 split with Angels? Isn't one of them clearly better than the other?

[Mister Agent]

Wouldn't Trinket Mage be good? You seem to have alot of targets for it.


Yeah i thought about trinket mage ill give that a shot see how everything goes. Plus trinket mage can be fetch the force of will when needed as well.

@illissius: Yeah rakavovler is definetly better then exalted angel but i been testing the 3/1 split mainly because during game 2 and 3 of the threshold match they can sideboard in blue elemental blasts which isn't cool. Or else i probably would do the 2/2 split or 1/3 in favor of raka. However both of them have won me alot more games against threshold compared to if i did not have them.

Thanks for the advice though im surprised that the people so far have been giving me positive advice. :)

[thefreakaccident]

Hey Kev!

Do you think you could post your boarding for the sideboard options... like what would you board against what decks?

I kinda shot in the dark, I am unsure as to if it was a hit/miss kinda deal... also, if you haver some more MU annalyses I would love to see them and edit the opening post (with proper grammer of coarse).

[Benie Bederios]

Hello

The deck looks quite strong. I had a deck that looks quite like this. I only have some questions.

Why are the one and two-offs in? You have no way of tutoring for them, so a single Disenchant and Orim's Thunder seems quite weak.

Next to that how is your draw engine holding up. With 7 cantrips and 2 Sensei's Divining Top you might be in trouble against other control decks, who can outdraw you and makes your EE and Wraths 1-for-1's. With the amount of lands, it looks like you can support Fact or Fiction and if you can't Ophidian might be a good card too with all the removal you play.

The final question is about your manabase. Why do you play the high amount of red fetches, when the most important colors are blue and white? Shouldn't it be Polluted Delta and Windswepth Heath. I also don't see the need for the Plateau.

BB

[Mister Agent]

@Benie: thanks! Ive been spending quite a bit of my time testing and tweeking the deck I know the deck still needs testing just like any other deck in the format. The draw engine i have right now works pretty well against threshold, goblins, and combo but against landstill it is just mediocre. Mainly since landstill has threats that can not be countered while my threats all can be countered. Also the fact that they play the control deck role significantly better then AFS(american funk slaughter) at almost all points except early game cantriping.

Now your probably wondering why I came up with this deck then instead of just playing landstill and the reason is since I am a hardcore control player I like to play with all kinds of control. One more thing about the manabase that is still undergoing playtesting as well. Thanks for your honest and good criticism though Benie as well as everyone elses.

@robert: Hello! Yeah I will come up with the sideboard analysis against the most relevant matchups and post it here after I come back from work.

Noobslayer was showing me his list for afs last night and I was impressed with it maybe he will post his list in this thread. :D

[Maveric78f]

Goblins:
preboard is about 50-55%. post is closer to 70%.

Threshold (mainly white splash):
65-70% in your favor preboard... the same post.

Cret belcher:
preboard its like a 60/40 kinda deal... post its going to be rediculously hard for them to win, I would project it like 1 75-25 in your favor.

tendrils based storm combo:
he said he had a pretty good MU saying he wins more than half of those MUs.
I think the MU would be much better post, but that would be speculation.

Another Thunderbluffy joke ?

[Sims]

No, it's not. I'm not sure about the numbers as I haven't tested the deck myself, but I know that Agent Funk has a tendency to play any tournament near him and spend most of his free time logged into MWS testing and making changes. Does playskill have something to do with it vs. teh M-dubyah-S publik of levl 1000 judgez? Maybe. But even if it is a major factor, he's constantly testing and refining the list, so I won't totally discount his testing because of a positive vs. the field claim.

[Lego]

I'd say it's not impossible to have a positive matchup against Threshold, Belcher, Storm Combo, and Goblins. I'd be impressed if it were really as positive as he says, but that doesn't mean this deck is perfect against the field. A lot of metas are experiencing a lot of Ichorid, Cephalid Breakfast, Landstill, and even a resurgence of things like TrainWreck and Truffle Shuffle. I'd like to know how it does against heavy board control, the newer combo decks, and even more roguish things like LftL decks, because I'm assuming these won't be great matchups.

[Sims]

Well if nothing else I can provide myself as an opponent for some of the matchups that need to be tested.... I don't fancy myself a great combo player but I'm not inept with Belcher or Ichorid. I do play a lot of TrainWreck/Truffle Shuffle style decks on MWS so I can play those as well.

[Tacosnape]

This deck seems to suffer from a severe lack of card draw.

[Mister Agent]

@tacosnape: Yeah i know thats why i said in the begining that this deck is still undergoing playtesting.

@Lego: well im glad someone thats been around playing the format since anyone is taking my playtesting with afs seriously. Also the main reason why this deck has a hard time against ichrorid and cephalid breakfast is because I barely even tested against those matchups considering i work 40 hours a week although i probably will find some time tonight. Also yeah ive playtested against cret, storm, threshold and goblins extensively as well.

Well I played like 8 rounds today just against ichorid bridge my friend who is fairly good with ichorid playtested against me. I also decided to play all of the games on the draw. More then half of the time though I would lose the first game mainly because I would be able to draw EE in time to hit his zombie tokens. I also stifling his zealot when he comes into play helps me live for at least a turn so I can blow up his zombies with ee. Stp also helps out in this matchup as well aiming for their ichorids. I was able to win games 2 and 3 most of the time though when I named dread return with meddling mage. Also sideboarding in tormod's crypts to rid them of their bridges actually helped out alot as well. I was able to win 6-2 rounds against ichrorid and when I win they were still not that easy but with mages and crypts my matchup gets quite a bit better.



Here is the most updated list I am playtesting now.



// Lands
4 [B] Volcanic Island
4 [U] Tundra
4 [ON] Flooded Strand
3 [OD] Island (2)
3 [U] Plains (2)
2 [MI] Mountain (1)
2 [ON] Bloodstained Mire
1 [ON] Polluted Delta

// Creatures
3 [ON] Exalted Angel
1 [AP] Rakavolver
1 [SC] Eternal Dragon
2 [CS] Jotun Grunt

// Spells
4 [A] Counterspell
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [IA] Brainstorm
3 [FD] Engineered Explosives
4 [4E] Swords to Plowshares
2 [6E] Wrath of God
3 [FD] Serum Visions
3 [SC] Stifle
2 [AP] Fire/Ice
1 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
1 [IN] Fact or Fiction

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [CS] Jotun Grunt
SB: 4 [PT] Pyroclasm
SB: 4 [PS] Meddling Mage
SB: 3 [TSB] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 1 [GP] Shattering Spree
SB: 1 [AP] Orim's Thunder
SB: 1 [IA] Disenchant

[noobslayer]

As per Agent Funks request, the list I've been tooling around with:

// Lands
2 [ON] Polluted Delta
3 [B] Tundra
2 [B] Volcanic Island
3 [B] Island
3 [B] Plains
3 [B] Plateau
3 [ON] Windswept Heath
4 [ON] Flooded Strand

// Creatures
3 [ON] Exalted Angel
1 [AP] Rakavolver
1 [SC] Eternal Dragon

// Spells
2 [FD] Serum Visions
1 [IN] Fact or Fiction
1 [SOK] Pithing Needle
3 [FD] Engineered Explosives
2 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
4 [MM] Brainstorm
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [B] Counterspell
3 [SC] Stifle
2 [B] Wrath of God
2 [P3] Rolling Earthquake
4 [B] Swords to Plowshares

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [SOK] Pithing Needle
SB: 1 [GP] Shattering Spree
SB: 4 [PS] Meddling Mage
SB: 2 [AP] Orim's Thunder
SB: 3 [CS] Jotun Grunt
SB: 4 [PT] Pyroclasm

[Mister Agent]

As per Agent Funks request, the list I've been tooling around with:

// Lands
2 [ON] Polluted Delta
3 [B] Tundra
2 [B] Volcanic Island
3 [B] Island
3 [B] Plains
3 [B] Plateau
3 [ON] Windswept Heath
4 [ON] Flooded Strand

// Creatures
3 [ON] Exalted Angel
1 [AP] Rakavolver
1 [SC] Eternal Dragon

// Spells
2 [FD] Serum Visions
1 [IN] Fact or Fiction
1 [SOK] Pithing Needle
3 [FD] Engineered Explosives
2 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
4 [MM] Brainstorm
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [B] Counterspell
3 [SC] Stifle
2 [B] Wrath of God
2 [P3] Rolling Earthquake
4 [B] Swords to Plowshares

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [SOK] Pithing Needle
SB: 1 [GP] Shattering Spree
SB: 4 [PS] Meddling Mage
SB: 2 [AP] Orim's Thunder
SB: 3 [CS] Jotun Grunt
SB: 4 [PT] Pyroclasm

Nice and thanks I really like the list seems like the list i started out with. Well i spent alot of time playtesting against ichrorid bridge and cephalid breakfast and american funk slaughter(AFS) does well especially postboard. As well as it still has a solid game against storm, goblins, and ugr thresh.

[The Rack]

Hey Kevin, I don;t want this thread to die because it is a great deck and has even more potential. What do you think about COunterbalance/Top engine? It buys you a hell of a lot of time andcan close the game against goblins or threshold. I personally am not sure if it belongs in here so let me know what you think. And I'm not real sure about the 1 ofs, you can;t fetch them out very easily and 7 draw won;t always grab them.

[thefreakaccident]

the one ofs are team funk mage and extripate hate tech... lol.

I like the idea of a CB engine in this deck, it could be overkill in some MUs... but it would help a lot in the control region of the meta, as well as being strong against thresh and combo... goblins not so much though.

[Mister Agent]

Hmm counterbalance with top sounds pretty cool i should try it out for the deck when i have time that is. I am also wondering if you guys playtested the deck against thresh like ugr thresh, goblins, cephalid breakfast and ichrorid? Also thanks for reviving the thread. :)

[thefreakaccident]

UGR thresh was tested by me, unlike the UGW varient they don't have relevant removal and no meddling mage.

They can burn you out if you let your life go too low, but that didn't seem like much of an issue. definitely a positive MU, moreso than UGW thresh at least.

+ life gainers = burn rape

goblins was a toughy, very good after boarding... but preboard it was actually closer to 50/50 with AFS maybe being slightly favored... definitely favored post board though.

I have not tested against ichorid or breakfast though.

[Mister Agent]

UGR thresh was tested by me, unlike the UGW varient they don't have relevant removal and no meddling mage.

They can burn you out if you let your life go too low, but that didn't seem like much of an issue. definitely a positive MU, moreso than UGW thresh at least.

+ life gainers = burn rape

goblins was a toughy, very good after boarding... but preboard it was actually closer to 50/50 with AFS maybe being slightly favored... definitely favored post board though.

I have not tested against ichorid or breakfast though.

Yeah I definetly found the UGW thresh matchup to be pretty hard especially the ones that board in armageddons but overall it was still favorable for AFS mainly because of life gainers and efficient creature removal. Yeah goblins is a tough one preboard but postboard its favorable for AFS.

Ive tested the ichrorid bridge and breakfast matchup first of all bridge could whoop up on AFS preboard but postboarding it gets better with meddling mage naming dread return and having tormod's crypts helps alot too.

Against breakfast its tough for afs preboard but postboard I'd say its slightly favorable since you can board in the same hate as ichorid.

Thanks for taking the time to test afs though Robert! :)

[thefreakaccident]

I have a list that I just envisioned...

Dark AFS

lands//23
4 tundra
3 underground sea
4 faerie conclave
3 scrubland
3 polluted dekta
3 flooded strand
3 island

creatures//2
2 eternal dragon

spells//35
4 force of will
3 counterbalance
3 counterspell
2 stifle
3 sensei's divining top
4 brainstorm
3 vindicate
3 swords to plowshares
3 cunning wish
2 diabolic edict
2 serum visions
1 trickbind

sideboard//
4 engineered plague
1 swords to plowshares
1 enlightened tutor
1 dismantling blow
1 trickbind
2 extripate
1 counterspell
4 meddling mage


I think it is a work in progress, I think it could become better though!

I don't run mana wincons... this could be an issue, I would run phyrexian totem; but I don't know what to cut.

[noobslayer]

Cunning Wish is too slow in this format. I would cut the wishes to thicken the removal in the main, probably for Engineered Explosives. This would also allow you to run a more solid board, so you actually would have reliable boarding options then instead of just wish targets. Also, if discussion on this build progresses, it would probably merit it's own thread. That and I prefer the builds with red over black. Rolling Earthquake is too good.

[Mister Agent]

Well ive been testing against ugr thresh, ugw thresh, ichrorid, belcher, and some storm decks and it has had a positive matchup well not like a 70 percent but more like 50/50 or like 55/45 in favor of afs especially afterboarding. The deck has been changed some as well and i lately abandon the tops and went with just some 1cc cantripping and it has been working out pretty well.

Anyway here is my most updated list its just like my previous list except with more instantaneous cantripping spells so I can draw the answers or threats at the right time.

By the way i like your black splash AFS list robert how has it been doing against the top decks in the format?

// Lands
4 [B] Volcanic Island
4 [U] Tundra
4 [ON] Flooded Strand
3 [OD] Island (2)
2 [U] Plains (2)
2 [MI] Mountain (1)
2 [ON] Bloodstained Mire
1 [ON] Polluted Delta

// Creatures
3 [ON] Exalted Angel
1 [AP] Rakavolver
2 [CS] Jotun Grunt
1 [SC] Eternal Dragon

// Spells
4 [A] Counterspell
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [IA] Brainstorm
3 [FD] Engineered Explosives
4 [4E] Swords to Plowshares
2 [6E] Wrath of God
3 [FD] Serum Visions
2 [SC] Stifle
1 [IN] Fact or Fiction
3 [IN] Opt
2 [P3] Rolling Earthquake

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [CS] Jotun Grunt
SB: 1 [SC] Stifle
SB: 4 [PS] Meddling Mage
SB: 3 [PT] Pyroclasm
SB: 3 [TSB] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 1 [GP] Shattering Spree
SB: 1 [IA] Disenchant
SB: 1 [AP] Orim's Thunder

[thefreakaccident]

The way the deck is built, do you think that morphling would be decent in the deck?

Also, I think Earthquake would be better for you than rolling... seeing as every creature in your deck flies (except grunt).

Has opt been good for you? I have tested it in a couple of decks and never really liked it.

I would suggest running multiple FoFs, but that would make the deck all around slower.

[noobslayer]

I would always play Rolling Earthquake when available. The fact that it can act as a huge sweeper is the same reason you run Wrath of God. Because it can hit both flyers and non-flyers is what makes it good. There are instances where killing some birds or bees is needed.

[Mister Agent]

The way the deck is built, do you think that morphling would be decent in the deck?

Also, I think Earthquake would be better for you than rolling... seeing as every creature in your deck flies (except grunt).

Has opt been good for you? I have tested it in a couple of decks and never really liked it.

I would suggest running multiple FoFs, but that would make the deck all around slower.

I think morphling could be pretty nice in here since hardly anyone would expect it besides there was a 25th place deck out of 170 players at Gencon that played with 3 morphlings and apparently it did pretty well. It is refreshing to see Superman still have flare in legacy.

I will just test out both whenever i have time to see which quake i like better. Opt has been fairly alright but i recently took them out for telling time and that makes the deck run more smoothly. Also running another Fofs can be a good idea as well since its probably the best late game draw spell in the format imo.


@noobslayer: Yep rolling earthquake has been testing out great especially against threshold and other aggro control decks like baseruption and more.