[Discussion] Where has the fun gone?

[The Rack]

In the where have Goblins gone thread here Wastedlife and I began to discuss the fun in Magic. So I decided to make a thread for it.

There are fun decks in Magic and there are deathly ill stabbing eyes out decks, they both win, but it is just a game after all.

Here's a list of the decks and their grading. If you don;t agree tell me, if I'm missing one let me know.

This is for the new Legacy players that are looking for fun decks and not masochist decks.

FUN IS SUBJECTIVE TO ALL PLAYERS :)

I just wanted to make a thread discussing why decks are "fun" and why others are not. What makes a deck "fun"? Why does everyone have petdecks but then netdeck at tournaments?(except for breakfast and ichorid at GenCon)

Discuss.

[Meekrab]

"A fun deck is a deck that wins."

[SuckerPunch]

It's subjective.

Some people don't have much fun playing a game of solataire ie. storm combo.

There was a phase years ago where locking my opponents completely out of the game with Stasis and watching them wither around helplessly is something I considered a blast to play. My playgroup disagreed. :mad:

That part of me hasn't died completely. Now I love blowing up land after land so that my opponent twists around helplessly with a handful of cards but unable to cast a single one (Vodka Pox).

Regardless of who are though, there is no denying that Fairie Stompy and Dreadnoght is a Fairie are among the two funnest decks you could ever play.

[The Rack]

"A fun deck is a deck that wins."

Then don't play Magic because you aren;t always going to win.

A fun deck is one that you can get a little adrenaline(sp?) rush with a combo deck or the satisfaction of pulling a random win right out of your ass. I play FLuctuator as a side deck sometimes, yes fluctuator... and it is hilarious to mull all the way down to your last card to your library with 2 life left and beat someone with a friekin Fluctuator deck!! Silly things are fun too.

[Sims]

Personally, I like using sometimes randomly obscure or lesser played cards that have, to me, fun interactions and characteristics. I enjoy playing survival decks because survival can be a powerful an interesting card, same with old Breakfast decks using Volrath's Shapeshifter... I loved playing that deck because of the interesting interactions between the cards in the deck.

Regardless of the archtype so to speak, I like using interesting cards with powerful effects or interactions. Hence, my pet deck on MWS is a TrainWreck style deck using Korlash as one of the win conditions because I find that a fun and interesting card... or I could play my Survival Reanimator variant with the Protean hulk combo as a win.

[Phya]

For me a fun deck is one that plays out differently every time and lets you do a lot of things in a single game. The only reason I found Goblins tolerable was because there were so many things I could do with Goblin Matron, especially since I ran 4 1-ofs. My favourite deck to play (when it works) is Ichorid, because of its huge explosive starts. Dropping 40 cards into the graveyard turn one puts Mental Note to shame.

I disagree about landstill being a boring deck to play, it's just a REALLY boring deck to lose against.

[Shriekmaw]

For me a fun deck is one that plays out differently every time and lets you do a lot of things in a single game. The only reason I found Goblins tolerable was because there were so many things I could do with Goblin Matron, especially since I ran 4 1-ofs. My favourite deck to play (when it works) is Ichorid, because of its huge explosive starts. Dropping 40 cards into the graveyard turn one puts Mental Note to shame.

I disagree about landstill being a boring deck to play, it's just a REALLY boring deck to lose against.


I believe bringing rogue decks to different tournaments to be a lot more fun than staple decks that everyone has seen. Personally, I have found more fun in playing Goblins than a deck that say "Draw, Land, Go".

People like playing decks that win, but how about decks that are actually fun and have some kind of interaction with other players.

[Jak]

I love playing long drawn out games like rabid wombat and landstill. I also like to play decks like TES. It is personal preference. It really seems like you hate control or whatever, but I happen to love it. I hate when games don;t go on long because I play for interaction and to have a good time. Playing maybe 2 lands and losing to combo is not always fun. Even playing with it and doing that gets old, so I switch over to Wombat.

[Nantuko88]

Fun decks to me are the old school Type II decks like ProsBloom and Nercro Variants. I enjoy playing those decks unsleeved and just for fun.

As far as tournaments go, I really like "explosive victories"...playing replenish and watching their board go away, tog for 56 damage, ect... Or anything with Chains of Mephistopheles, but I can't find good shell for it yet.

[mikekelley]

I think combo decks are boring as all hell in every regard.

However, I think playing Landstill is super fun. there are just so many things you can do with it. I get giddy playing it because I can answer just about every threat that my opponent plays with 4c landstill. They get flustered quickly.

But my all time favorite deck is Faerie Stompy. Endless fun, games that you should never win that you end up winning. Granted sometimes you just get slaughtered to the point of no return but the fun times with that deck far, far outweigh the bad.

I've yet to play a deck that makes me as happy as Faerie Stompy... Swinging second turn with a SOFI or Jitte on a Serendib Efreet or Sea Drake while your opponent sits there helpless with 1 land is more epic than anything. But sometimes that play can get you fucked, like if they wasteland your City or Tomb and STP the Drake. Then you're way behind, oops! :D but still, soo fun.

[Lone Signal]

I have fun with UGR Thresh. With all the filter, it can always play out its 'A gameplan'. Reliability goes a long way for me when playing this game, since I hate getting mana screwed or just things not working right. With this deck, I can count on bringing my best game to my opponent, and that I find is very satisfying. I also like the reach it has, pulling off a surprising finish is great.

[Wynk]

Fun is subjective! Its about playing style. However, my question is whether interactivity more fun or is winning more fun for you?

The most fun games for me are casual games where I'd like to win, but the main focus is on playing against another person. Depending on the type of person you are, you aim to defeat your opponent quickly or bleed them slowly. The style doesn't so much matter to me as much as the interactivity.

The best interactivity can be found when your opponent has SOME type of game against you and presents some challenge. But that means they can win and you can lose.

Competitive magic are geared to dominate and limit interactivity by their nature. Winning is the emphasis here, interactivity is to be discouraged. Here its how you win that creates the "fun" people find in winning.

The control/lock deck can be fun for those who enjoy the feeling of absolute dominance when you gain control of the game. Its interactivity for people who like saying "No" to others and like defense over offense. Its games have high variables, but I think its for people who like watching their money earn interest.
Opponent: Cast this.
Control: You broke my standstill. I draw 3 cards and counter. Cast another standstill. Hit you with a faerie for 2.
Its like trying to punch water.

Burn/fast aggro is fun for sheer agression, speed, simplicity, and its pretty relaxing to play. It can lead to the most interactivity, but then, attacking with a horde of goblins turn 3 for around 30 damage won win any interactivity prizes.
Goblins turn 2: Lackey swing, get warchief. cast piledriverx2.
Opponent: Cast silver knight.
Goblins: cast 2 random goblins with haste.
Opponent: :( Nice interactive game there.

Combo tries to get an early one turn kill and people enjoy that power. Its interactivity, or lack of it, is do I win or does my opponent have the stifle? Some people enjoy solitaire for instance. The best games for combo are games where the opponent doesn't do anything. At the same time, its like a game of all in poker, high risk high reward.

Even rogue decks try and limit interactivity. The fun comes from the new deck design that takes others by surprise. The idea is to dominate an opponent in competitive magic.

[The Rack]

It's really great to see so many points of views about what "fun" really is. The problem with a lot of the decks I mentioned was that they are terribly boring to play against. Landstill is a favorable matchup for my deck but it is an absolute pain in the ass to go through the motions for 50 minutes. I enjoy playing control decks but the interaction is pointless. I don;t mind combos nearly as much because it is very interesting to see how it all works and pulls through into the win and better yet finding how you can beat a strong combo deck without blue. I really do enjoy everyones points of views. It's nice to see everything in a different perspective.

[Sims]

I may be a sicko, but to add to what I've said already about liking decks that have interesting cards and interactions, I think my favorite deck ever that I've played at all was playing Welder MUD in the old 1.5. I only played it a handful of games (since Braves deck was pimped out and I didn't want to ruin the deck, he took very good care of it and shuffled it in a particular fashion to prevent play creases.)

The deck SUCKED to play against, particularly in a time where I was mostly playing Food Chain, but was immensely fun to play to me.

[SuckerPunch]

But my all time favorite deck is Faerie Stompy. Endless fun, games that you should never win that you end up winning. Granted sometimes you just get slaughtered to the point of no return but the fun times with that deck far, far outweigh the bad.

I've yet to play a deck that makes me as happy as Faerie Stompy... Swinging second turn with a SOFI or Jitte on a Serendib Efreet or Sea Drake while your opponent sits there helpless with 1 land is more epic than anything. But sometimes that play can get you fucked, like if they wasteland your City or Tomb and STP the Drake. Then you're way behind, oops! :D but still, soo fun.

Lol, that just reminded me of a game I played the past week against the only other Fairie Stompy player in our group.

After mulliganing twice (he was on the play), he opened with Chrome Mox, Ancient Tomb, Sea Drake and revealed a SOFI and City of Traitors in his hand with a "you're so screwed this game" smirk on his face.

He had no idea what deck I was using.

I open with....




Smallpox. GG.

[Happy Gilmore]

Alluren is the most fun deck I can think of off the top of my head. So many cool things to do. And when it goes infinite it really goes infinite :laugh: .

[Bahamuth]

?? I got get your logic. How could Solidarity possibly be more boring than SI/TES? Those two deck are both focussed on going off as soon as possible. There is much more thought and skill involved in playing Solidarity correctly. Also, your opponent has much more turns to do something to stop you from winning. How is that more boring?

[Taurelin]

VERY BORING DECKS:
Solidarity

GREAT FUN DECKS:
TES


I can't quite follow you here. For the opponent, it is very boring to play against either of them. The only difference being that the TES game is usually over faster. If you like playing combo, both decks are a lot of fun to play, though.

The question if anything is fun or not must be answered differently whether you ask for a) interesting games or b) your personal enjoyment while abusing your deck.

Another thing is that interactivity can vary greatly. For example, how to deal with a first turn Lackey.

Very fun: Casting a Nimble Mongoose and let the opponent decide if he dares to attack.

Acceptable: Waiting till he attacks and StP it.

Less funny: FoW

No fun at all: Casting Chalice @1 and prevent your opponent from casting Lackey in the first place.

The result in these scenarios is basically the same, but you see the difference.

For me the most fun comes from
- either games that last long, are even for a long time, a little like a tug-of-war, until one sides comes out stronger,
- or from rogue/budget decks that annoy the crap out of the expensive, high-bred so-called tier1 decks (Cast Blood Moon vs Thresh ftw).

[SuckerPunch]

For me, casting that Chalice at 1 and locking your opponent out of key cards is the most fun of all four options.

Fun really is a very subjective thing. But we may reach consensus on some generalities of what fun is.

We can all agree that monotomy is boring. So decks that play out the same game after game I think we would all find to be boring after a little bit.

Maybe we can get a consensus that the "tug of war" experience you're talking about is fun.

It's certainly true for me. My favorite game of all time was a three player game from over an year ago that I still can't get out of my head.

My opponents kept playing lands, and I kept blowing them up with Pox effects, Sinkholes and and Crucible + Wasteland recursion, which obviously led them to make an alliance to kill me off first. My opponents kept playing creatures, and I kept making them sac them with Pox effects lock. I kept playing Ghostly Prison to buy enough time to clear the board with an Infest followed by a Pox/Smallpox and they kept finding a way to destroy the Prison, but always just one turn after I finished clearing the board. It was the ultimate tug of war.

Eventually, the game ended with me decking one player, and then getting decked myself the turn before my second opponent would have been decked because I miscounted and recycled one too many fetchlands with Crucible. And the best part, by the end of the game, there was a total of 3 lands and 1 creatures in play between both of my opponents and atleast 50 lands and 30+ creatures in our graveyards!! And all three of us were under 3 life from all the Poxes!

This is why I have a bone to pick with OPer about his lack of inclusion of Pox in the Great Fun category. :mad:

[mikekelley]

Lol, that just reminded me of a game I played the past week against the only other Fairie Stompy player in our group.

After mulliganing twice (he was on the play), he opened with Chrome Mox, Ancient Tomb, Sea Drake and revealed a SOFI and City of Traitors in his hand with a "you're so screwed this game" smirk on his face.

He had no idea what deck I was using.

I open with....




Smallpox. GG.


And that's why I love that deck. High risk, high reward.

But I would have jumped across the table at you :laugh:

It's like watching your opponent get a storm count of 12 and then cast Warrens.

But you sit there trying to contain yourself because you're holding on to pyroclasm or deed or something. Or when your opponent mulligans to five and you know he's mana screwed. Then you waste his only land and he doesn't draw into land for 3 turns, as you play land after land and then a standstill and it's over as soon as it began.

Oh glory.

[DarkAkuma]

Fun decks for me are either old, favorite, or theme decks. The deck I still have the most fun with, even after 8 years, is 9 Land Stompy. I built it shortly after MM came out, and havent grown sick of it yet. The reason its probly still so fun for me is, I designed by myself back before netdecking was so popular. Also why I have so much fun with it, is because most people severly underrate it, despite it haveing so many good match ups in the modern legacy metagame when played/designed correctly. I win more with it then I do with any of my other Tier 1 decks. I love the deck so much, ive finaly got around to foiling it, something I dont normaly do.

Other decks I have fun with would probly be the classic, original Sligh/Geeba deck (with some legality adjustments. Like Wastelands instead of Strip Mine). It realy is a ton of fun kicking someones ass, whos playing rifter/wombat, with it, after they see the janky cards in it and think they got it made. Other then that, maybe some Recycle/Elves, Fluctuator, or just some plain old Type 1 after a long day of Legacy.

[feuerizer]

To me the greatest fun is where the laughter is most!

I have a small playgroup of close friends and we laugh the hell out of us when we play two headed giant with my highlander single library deck.
It is built with trash cards that have nice interactions. For every single threat in the deck there is a single answer. So the luck factor is high and because it is a 150+ card deck and consists of five colors there a so many combinations.
Simply imagine attacking with a Dwarven Vigilantes enchanted with Infiltrator´s Magemark.

[mikekelley]

That deck would be fun to play with fetchlands :D

[Nihil Credo]

Playing Rabid Wombat vs. Solidarity for a year in Abu Ghraib is more fun than discussing what fun is.

[TheCramp]

I think the control mirror is fun. I think big monsterous assusts in the beginning of the game is fun too. I don't mind losing to storm combo turn one if my opponent isn't a dick. And if I win turn one, I would like my opponent to take their lumps.

Fun to me is playing with people who don't suck, and can enjoy your victories over them if you earned it, and vice versa. I don't have any pet peves around cards or routs to victory. Only obnoxious players.

The enviroment to me is what is fun or not. But I guess that is not what this is about. (So I'll stop before I start ranting about gamers who feel the need to hot-dog about Asian girls and call everything gay.)

[FoolofaTook]

Fun to me is watching a deck perform and interacting with my opponent. Aggro-control concepts are fun because they are both proactive and they interact with the opponent at a very high level.

Any combo deck is not fun because it essentially shortens the game and largely removes the interplay between the players as it resolves a win or a loss.

I hated the Fastbond recursion decks in the old meta and I hate the combo decks trying to win in the first few turns in this one.

[Jander78]

It's hard to address a question on such an undefined topic. Fun in regards to this game is going to be different to every person you talk to. I'm actually starting to enjoy the format a lot more as it seems there are actually a decent mix of decks instead of playing the same ones constantly.

[cupajoe]

Does the answer change when you're not in a tourney setting (or testing for a tourney)?

I have yet to play a casual game against somebody who pulls out a combo deck. Never. And I've been playing Magic for 12 years. And I've played against a whole bunch of different people.

I suspect that once you get out of the adrenaline of a tourney environment, where winning is the big thing, the fun factor of combo decks decreases by about 99 percent (I would argue that the fun factor for combo is lacking even in a tourney, but I understand a lot of people have different opinions about that and to each his own)

[Sims]

Oh, I'll play combo in a casual setting... just not the combo that most people would imagine. Combo for me in a casual setting would be like... I dunno, Kobold Kombo or some elaborate combo that takes like 5 cards to set up be super fragile and take 4 turns to get to, but if you get it set up it wins. Obscure card combinations for victory (in casual.)

[Goaswerfraiejen]

Perhaps you should also consider dividing things along the lines of "fun to play" and "fun to play against".

While there's a certain pleasure to be had in winning or cleverly finding the chain to your combo, I myself find that the most enjoyable games of Magic are those that have maximised the interaction between players; those games are the most challenging, since your opponent has done his utmost to defeat you. Losing such games is also much more fun than losing to non-interactive decks. Fun, in large part, involves playing your deck; hence why Stax and storm combo decks are much less fun: they only allow one player to play his deck, and even then, "playing" that deck involves not interacting with the opponent until it's time for the kill. The "fun" in such games is one-sided at best, and it loses a great deal by virtue of that fact.

I find it odd, myself, that you've listed non-interactive decks such as Stax as "non-fun" and then put storm combo under the "fun" category.

[Raider Bob]

Uh who thinks landstill is boring?

[Cait_Sith]

To answer the question where has all the fun gone:

My friend's Evil Eye deck stole it. Would you like me to ask for it back?

[Bryant Cook]

People say there's no interactivity in combo, I completely disagree. There's little I'll give you that, but there is some. One of my favorite match-ups is UGW Threshold Vs. TES. Orim's Chant/Pyroblast vs. Force of Will. Who can manipulate thier hand enough before pressure starts to cave-in? Turn's 1-2 are the scariest, pressure starts to happen, intensity has taken over. It all ends in a big blowout. Force for Chant and another counterspell for tutor? Or I go absolutely apeshit. More happens in these 2 turns of magic than 10 turns in the landstill mirror match that commonly takes place in Syracuse.

[frogboy]

Interacting with my opponent is fun, particularly when I win.

Although to be fair, I really hate it when my opponent makes like fifteen mistakes and his deck just refuses to let him lose.

[Di]

Type 4 is fun. That's about it.

[Goaswerfraiejen]

People say there's no interactivity in combo, I completely disagree. There's little I'll give you that, but there is some. One of my favorite match-ups is UGW Threshold Vs. TES. Orim's Chant/Pyroblast vs. Force of Will. Who can manipulate thier hand enough before pressure starts to cave-in? Turn's 1-2 are the scariest, pressure starts to happen, intensity has taken over. It all ends in a big blowout. Force for Chant and another counterspell for tutor? Or I go absolutely apeshit. More happens in these 2 turns of magic than 10 turns in the landstill mirror match that commonly takes place in Syracuse.

To be fair, three points:

1.) When people say there's "no interactivity with combo", they usually mean "almost none"; otherwise, combo would be unbeatable!

2.) Orim's Chant and Force of Will (along with counterspells in general) aren't really interactive cards; they're cards predicated on nullifying interactivity. Obviously, that's a principle that can't be taken too far, or all we're left with is creatures, but I suspect that you get my point.

3.) While more spells are played, it doesn't mean that "more is going on" which, in my mind, would suggest the development of board position. Rather, we've got you who are about to explode with baby goblins, and the Threshold player who's too afraid to commit to development until he has more mana (read: later turns).


Anyway, I don't mean to be argumentative. Just trying to be fair in the representation of different positions. To combo's credit, Empty the Warrens makes combo more fun--because Empty the Warrens is a card that promotes interactivity (creature combat!), meaning that the rest of us have a chance. :tongue: I certainly prefer EtW to Brain Freeze--*shudder*

[outsideangel]

Playing Rabid Wombat vs. Solidarity for a year in Abu Ghraib is more fun than discussing what fun is.

This.

[Atwa]

Fun decks for me, are decks which enable interactivity between players.

The best games I've played were games (not matches) which took some 40 minutes to play. The best game I can remember took me 3 hours to finish (I lost due to a lucky topdeck halfway during the game). Elves vs Clerics can be really cool. I generated about 80-100 lifes each turn, and my opponent stole them each turn. He killed me the turn before he would get decked.

Overal I like decks which resolve around either creaturebattle or aggro/(board)control. Playing some counterspells is nice , but no more than 8 in a deck.

The decks I dislike the most are stormcombo. Solidarity was really boring to play against and I get frustrated playing against TES or Iggy.

[Kundalini]

My strategy for maximising fun in magic play is:

Play a Deck in order to...

either lose fast, and in a painless and quick way... or...
win slow, in a long and glorious streak.

So, if your chances of winning are 50% you can be sure of spending about 75% of your play time while winning, and 25% while losing :)

That's why I prefer slow control decks... either I am obliterated by an aggro rush, and I die with no suffering in 5 mins, or I achieve board control and stay in a dominant position for 20-25 mins before ending with one of my 1-3 victory conditions...

well... that's why scoop exists I suppose

[TheDarkshineKnight]

Fun, for me, at least, comes from playing decks that win even though they're completely bizarre. My favorite archetype is the Life from the Loam deck. Who would think a deck consisting of essentially nothing but lands would actually be competitive?

[deadlock]

Ok, call me pervert, but for me decks that give me food for my imagination i like best. These are:
-fancy combos even if not viable, i like to try to build a deck around them.
-foremost decks that are build to set up a huge engine and like to draw a ton of cards. For example High Tide in all variations, Academy and Trix (Necopotence > all).
My current favorite is the Tinker deck from 2003 (but without the most overpowered artifacts from Darksteel). Pump out mana artifacts, Stroke yourself for a bunch of cards, cast Upheaval with tons of mana floating :laugh:

[noobslayer]

Fuck fun, the Solidarity mirror match is the only entertaining thing I can think of.

Oh, well, a 5/6 Tarmogoyf is fun for everyone too.

[ClearSkies]

Fun is always subjective.

I find control vs combo fun. (Doesn't matter which role am I) Stax is pretty fun to play with too. Playing with established decks are usually fun for me.

Then again, too much of anything seems to destroy the fun for me.

[kicks_422]

Fun depends on the player's personality. If you're a teen with raging hormones, I guess Goblins or Ichorid would be good for you. If you're the type who want to crush people quickly, TES/Belcher would be fun. And if you don't like friends, your fun went away when Hulk Flash got kicked out.

[Iranon]

Fun can take many forms; sometimes it's in tweaking the deck to perfection as much as in actual play (Affinity, Burn and Pox are prime candidates for gratuitious fine-tuning).
On the other hand, winning with a bizarre and ungainly monstrosity because the opponent doesn't have a clue about how to deal with it is good for a laugh as well - 'I win because I know more about fencing than you know about pitchfork fighting'.

***

In my opinion, fast combo doesn't necessarily make the game any less fun - it becomes less like chess and more like poker... I enjoy both. However, as the other type of decks widely considered unfun (unwieldy control), these decks tend to be more interesting in their bad match-ups. A straight race between a 2-turn combo clock and a 4-turn creature clock without any interaction is just not that exciting.
This only goes for game 1 though; a little hate goes a long way and makes games infinitely more enjoyable. Belcher beating down with Spirit guides after everything else has been taken from them and still winning is hilarious. Some of my finest games were combo vs. disproportionate hate.

Having to work for a victory (and being able to) is a bonus, regardless who is trying to combo out... bad luck on a draw-4 then trying to dig yourself out of the pit is infinitely preferable than having the game decided on a Spoils of the Vault.

***

Slow decks can be more of an annoyance in my opinion. If I won game 1, can't win game 2 but my opponent's deck has a clock best measured in aeons much tedium ensues because I'm only playing so I can give up at the right moment (when I still have enough time to win game 3 but my opponent doesn't).
Conceding when it improves your overall chances is a legitimate part of the game, and thankfully so (otherwise, Shahrazad + milling might actually work. What a horrible thought)... but playing just to waste time is unfun, even if doesn't take illegal forms.

***

In general, I think Legacy is fun because of its diversity. There are some powerful and near-degenerate decks in the format, but they are generally eclipsed by the more reliable/flexible ones.
Contract Tendrils isn't the king of Combo, UGr Thresh is more popular than UGr Madness, Goblins is the aggro deck of choice rather than something like The Cure and control... well, control is too diverse to really say anything about it.

My point is that Legacy players emphasise consistency and resilency at the expense of power. In my opinion, this makes the format very enjoyable: There are plenty of monsters under the bed that *should* turn the format into a cheese/disruption fest, but they don't.
You can still win by smashing face with creatures, without special tricks. I hope it stays that way.

[TeenieBopper]

and have some kind of interaction with other players.

Ding ding ding! Winnar!

Exceptions to the "player interaction decks" are 'engine' combo decks like Prosbloom and Dream Halls. Very little interaction with another player, but such decks amazed me with the interaction within the deck itself.

On a somewhat related note, player interaction is the sole reason why Split Second is the dumbest fucking mechanic ever.

[Sanguine Voyeur]

On a somewhat related note, player interaction is the sole reason why Split Second is the dumbest fucking mechanic ever.Do you really think that Sweep (in execution) is better then Split Second?

[Sims]

Ok, call me pervert, but for me decks that give me food for my imagination i like best. These are:
-fancy combos even if not viable, i like to try to build a deck around them.
-foremost decks that are build to set up a huge engine and like to draw a ton of cards. For example High Tide in all variations, Academy and Trix (Necopotence > all).
My current favorite is the Tinker deck from 2003 (but without the most overpowered artifacts from Darksteel). Pump out mana artifacts, Stroke yourself for a bunch of cards, cast Upheaval with tons of mana floating :laugh:

If you're playing a Tinker deck from '03 (I'm guessing maybe extended?) than why don't you just get a Gilded Lotus with a few Twiddle effects and just cast Minds Desire FTW?

[Citrus-God]

Drain mirrors are fun. I had so many epic games with Meandeck Gifts vs. T1T. My god, I will never forget the lessons I learned.

[Slay]

The fun has gone because the format is too powerful, and too diversely powerful. You have a deck that can win very quickly with the graveyard(Ichorid), a deck that wins very quickly through a counterable, reusable spell(Belcher), two/three decks that can win very quickly by putting out a bunch of 1/1s on turn 1(Belcher, TES, Iggy), and two decks that can win through an uncounterable win condition(TES, Iggy). All these decks are at least somewhat widely played, and no one card answers all of them, or even half of them. The only thing close is Engineered Explosives, and that card sucks. To have a chance at winning you have to prepare for most, or all of these decks in some form or another. The fact that any deck has to fight against many different powerful ways for combo to win as well as the rest of the archetypes means that decks have to play defensive, watered-down strategies with generic powerful defense cards, or risk going a quick 0-2 or 1-2 to bad matchups. That's why Legacy isn't very fun anymore, even if combo isn't putting up the numbers it was expected to.
-Slay

[Illissius]

I like Legacy a hell of a lot more right now than when it was Goblins versus Solidarity. Just saying.

[Tog]

I used to have a lot of fun in Legacy before storm combos like TES, Belcher, and Ichorid came about. Back then all you had to worry about was a turn 1 Lackey on the play. Lackey itself threw most of the control-esque decks I played out the window. However, the thing that bothers me the most now is how blue is the only one that has most and varied answers for combo. The only deck that has game against all this blistering speed is Threshold. Even I've begun to pick it up now. And only God knows how much I have blue.

~Tog