[Deck] WGB AggroSlide

[morgan_coke]

I've been trying to make slide work in extended (successfully I might add, at least if the number of PE's and q's I've won with it are any indication) and I think that the time has come for the deck to shift from control to aggro control. I realized this when I was beginning to attempt to get the deck tuned up for the upcoming season, it just couldn't be controlling enough vs. aggro and still have game vs. combo. I realized the deck needed more clock and less comes into play creatures.

The best way to do this is something called the big fast creature deck. Back in the day, critter decks were either small fast creature decks (think Boros or Goblins), or big fast creature decks (think reanimator and oath). The main problem the big fast creature decks had was that they couldn't protect the big critter and the number of cards they spend on getting the big guy out early means big time card disadvantage when it dies. There was also the problem of chump blocking. Slide handles all of those disadvantages rather nicely.


This is the current build I'm experimenting with, based off of what I'm doing in extended. Its by no means definitive.

Big Critter/Aggro Control Slide
Beats
4x Tarmogoyf
4x Dark Confidant
3x Exalted Angel

Recursion
4x Unearth
3x Eternal Witness
3x Life from the Loam

Removal
4x Swords to Plowshares
3x Vindicate
2x Engineered Explosives

Engine
3x Astral Slide

Acceleration
4x Chrome Mox

Cyclers
4x Tranquil Thicket
3x Secluded Steppe
3x Barren Moor

Mana
4x Windswept Heath
2x Plains
2x Forest
2x Swamp
1x Bayou
1x Scrubland
1x Savannah

Sideboard
4x Cabal Therapy
4x Engineered Plague
4x Tormod's Crypt
3x Orim's Chant

Other good cards for this deck are Jotun Grunt, Tombstalker, Twisted Abomination/Eternal Dragon, Volrath's Stronghold, Nantuko Monastery, and Pithing Needle.

I'd really like to put Chant in the maindeck, but the only thing I can see to remove for it is the Angels, and that leaves the deck a bit light on actual beaters, as well as taking away the lifegain. The Confidants are really groovy with the low curve and do a great job of minimizing the effects of the low number of cyclers and the card disadvantage from Chrome Mox.

Updates

After running a bunch of test games I've discovered that goblins is a bad matchup game one. Not unwinnable by any means, but also not in your favor. Something like 65/35 them. 4x Plague helps a LOT, giving you an edge post board. Though its also not a lockdown victory then either, more like 65/35 or 70/30 you. I think this results in a slightly favorable match overall, maybe 55/45 or 60/40 in your favor, but still one that you can very easily lose if you don't play tight.

Threshold is fairly in your favor. You have as many or more must counters as they have counters, and your guys are bigger. Plus you have a better draw engine and recursion. If they win its going to be early with quick thresh and lots of early beats. I'd say about 65/35 in your favor pre-board, and 60/40 post. You don't have much relevant to bring into this matchup, while they gain Krosan Grip. Tormod's Crypt is helpful, but not that much given that your guys are already bigger or as big as theirs.

I haven't tested any other matches with this build yet, so no comments on how they play out. I've made quite a few changes since the first list posted on this thread, most of which I feel are beneficial.

Beats
4x Tarmogoyf
2x Tombstalker
2x Exalted Angel
1x Nantuko Monastery

Recursion
3x Eternal Witness
4x Unearth
3x Life from the Loam

Cycling Stuff
3x Astral Slide
3x Street Wraith
4x Tranquil Thicket
3x Barren Moor
2x Secluded Steppe

Acceleration
3x Chrome Mox

Removal
4x Swords to Plowshares
3x Vindicate
2x Engineered Explosives

Disruption
2x Orim's Chant

Mana
3x Windswept Heath
2x Forest
2x Plains
2x Swamp
1x Savannah
1x Bayou
1x Scrubland

Sideboard
4x Cabal Therapy
4x Engineered Plague
3x Tormod's Crypt
3x Pithing Needle
1x Orim's Chant

I went down to three Witnesses because with four I would have an extra one clogging my hand too often. Witness + Unearth is just about the same as having unlimited Witnesses until you get a Slide online, so having only three really hasn't been a problem for me. Street Wraith replaced Bob because I didn't really have any good ways to kill him if I got low on life and I wanted more cyclers in the deck. The free cycling this is also pretty tight and can give goyf a surprise pump sometimes. Tombstalker made it in because he's awesome. The Chant's can serve as no counter enforcers, time walks, and in some games (like against a board control deck) as a way to get "Chant Lock". Generally useful, but not mindblowing in multiples, so they're in as a two-of with a third in the board for matches they're really useful in. Also absolutely amazing vs. non-Solidarity storm combo. Post board, CRET-belcher shouldn't be too bad of a matchup given 3 chants, 3 needles, and 4 therapies to stop the t1 win.

EDIT2 - a note on the decks' origins:

As I noted at the start of this thread, this deck is growing out of my work on slide in extended, and the feeling I'm getting that the version of Slide I'm piloting there has the ability to make a successful transition to Legacy. In an attempt to explain why I feel this way, I'll give a recount of a recent two game match I played on MODO with the extended version. (Once Classic gets a banned list I'll be playing this there as well, which should provide a more reasonable, though still imperfect, comparison to Legacy). These games took place vs. a guy with a 1690 rating piloting R/W Boros.

Game One: For some reason Modo isn't replaying this one but it involved a turn one mox/cycling combo into a t2 putrefy, t3 5/6 goyf and edge of autumn casting. Bad times for opponent, when my third turn ended I had five mana and a goyf in play to his two lands. When he Molten Rain'd me on his third turn it was completely irrelevant.

Game Two (On the draw): Hand consists of Barren Moor, Street Wraith, Engineered Explosives, Putrefy, Plains, Loxodon Hierarch, Chrome Mox, Windswept Heath.
Boros T1: Bloodstained Mire, Go. Popped Mire on my turn for Foundry.
Slide T1: Windswept Heath, Mox Imprinting Wraith, Go. Cycled Moor and popped Heath for Temple Garden on his EOT.

Boros T2: Sacred Foundry, Goblin Legionnaire, Go.
Slide T2: Draw Witness and Gilded Light, Plains, Putrefy Legionnaire, Go.

Boros T3: Flooded Strand, Isamaru, Go. Popped Strand on my turn for Foundry.
Slide T3: Draw Gilded Light, cycle for Godless Shrine, E.E. for one, Go.

Boros T4: Attacked with Isarmaru, Mire, Go. Mire for Foundry EOT.
Slide T4: Draw Forest, play it, Witness grabbing Heath, two mana untapped.

Boros T5: Attack with Isamaru, trade with Witness, Savannah Lions, Go. I popped E.E. at EOT killing Lions. Flooded Strand for Plains.
Slide T5: Draw Exalted Angel, Heath for Forest, play Angel unmorphed.

Boros T6: Lightning Helix, Firebolt, kill Angel.
Slide T6: Draw Tombstalker, Loxodon Hierarch, Tombstalker, Go.

Boros T7: Browbeat, I pay five life, dropping to 15, Go.
Slide T7: Draw Street Wraith, attack for nine, Boros Incinerates me and concedes.

the extended slide list which the legacy version is based off of:
4x Tarmogoyf
4x Eternal Witness
2x Tombstalker
2x Loxodon Hierarch
2x Twisted Abomination
3x Street Wratih
3x Gilded Light
3x Edge of Autumn
3x Astral Slide
2x Engineered Explosives
3x Putrefy (will be Vindicates soon)
2x Global Ruin
3x Chrome Mox
4x Tranquil Thicket
4x Secluded Steppe
3x Windswept Heath
1x Overgrown Tomb
1x Godless Shrine
1x Temple Garden
1x Nantuko Monastery
3x Chrome Mox
2x Forest
2x Plains
2x Swamp

Sideboard
1x Genesis
2x Exalted Angel
2x Condemn
3x Tormod's Crypt
3x Pithing Needle
4x Cabal Therapy

I included this bit on the deck's extended version because I think that if you know where something is coming from you'll better understand it, and how to move it forward to where you want it to go. If you find this section unhelpful, then just ignore it.

[Jak]

Why not play creatures with CIP effects, such as Loxodon Hierarch.

[morgan_coke]

casting cost mainly, the deck is very low curved, it tops out at three mana for slide, vindicate, angel, and witness. the point is to go smashyface on your opponent, not play cute tricks with cip effects that take too long to set up.

[Maveric78f]

Did you mean mox diamond ?

[Nydaeli]

I think Mox Diamond would be better than Chrome Mox with LftL + massiveamountofcyclinglands. (Isn't ten of those way too many? I'd try 6-8.)

You're wrong to cite mana curve as a reason to play Angel over Hierarch, since you'll have to pay four mana eventually for it not to suck horribly. Hierarch is the better card for that slot, in my opinion.

Solitary Confinement? There are plenty of reasons why it sucks (game 2 hate, Wishable answers from combo), but it steals so many games that it's still worth consideration.

[Jak]

Actually Nydaeli, if I am not mistake, you slide out angel and it will come into play flipped over. So it is good.

[morgan_coke]

I guess mana curve isn't quite what i was looking for when explaining why the deck picks angel over hierarch, its speed. Angel is quite simply faster than the elephant, being able to do the t2 play, t3 flip thing with mox. also, morphs flip over when you slide them out, and angel is a much better clock than hierarch due to its flying.

chrome mox is in over mox diamond because the deck only has 23 lands, which means that a lot of the time you'll be dropping a land and a mox, and then no third land unless you have lftl. diamond goes much better in a deck with 26+ lands, like 5c garden or stax.

solitary confinement is a good control card. this isn't a control deck, besides, what exactly would you take out to fit it in?

it might be worth it to drop 2 cycling lands for chant's, i'll give it a shot.

[JCteam_ripio]

I was thinking in something like this:

4 llanowar elves
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Eternal witness
4 Street wraith
3 Loxodon hierarch

4 Astral slide
4 Swords to plowshares
4 Edge of autum
4 Renewed faith
3 life from the loam

4 savannah
4 windswept heath
4 Tranquil Thicket
4 Secluded Steppe
2 tree of tales
3 forest
2 plains

[WiLdFiRe]

Seems like Street Wraith could be really cute in this deck. Just food for thought.

[Hatthehat]

If your going to run Edge of autum my as well use at least two flagstones.

[JCteam_ripio]

If your going to run Edge of autum my as well use at least two flagstones.

You're right two Flagstones should work. I've been thinking in Wall of roots over llanowar elves what do you guys think?. Another question: Do you think that black is really necessary?

[zulander]

I'd suggest blue over black. FoW/Brainstorm, seems better than duress/Confidant.

[Maveric78f]

FoW with 8 blue cards ?

And you have to think about SB issues too. Black is from far superior to blue in this domain.

[morgan_coke]

jcteam,

I'm not sure what you're doing with that g/w list, you don't have any oversize to cost critters besides goyf, and you don't run any kind of disruption. Black is necessary for removal/disruption and for more big, undercosted dudes. and for Plague to deal with goblins.

zulander,

i've tried blue in slide a lot of times, have never had any success at all in making it work. fundamentally, blue decks and slide decks do different things. blue's disruption and control is focused around the stack, slides is focused on the playing field.

updated first post with deck changes.

[JCteam_ripio]

jcteam,

I'm not sure what you're doing with that g/w list, you don't have any oversize to cost critters besides goyf, and you don't run any kind of disruption. Black is necessary for removal/disruption and for more big, undercosted dudes. and for Plague to deal with goblins.


Morgan I respect your card choices but I'm trying to find a deck to abuse the "free cyclers" from Future Sight, I think we all agree that the idea behind astral slide is to protect your threats and remove those from your opponent. Tarmogoyf can really shine in this deck, growing really fast and entering the red zone unblocked, There are plenty of synergies with street wraith and edge of autum + flagstones that should be considered.

[JCteam_ripio]

This what I'll play next saturday in my local store

3 Street wraith
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Dark confidant
3 Wall of roots
3 Eternal witness

4 Mox diamond
3 Astral slide
3 Edge of autum
3 Life from the loam
2 Sensei's divining top
4 Swords to plowshares
3 Cabal therapy

2 Flagstones of trokair
1 Scrubland
2 Savannah
4 Windswept heath
4 Tranquil thicket
3 Secluded steppe
1 Barren moor
2 Swamps
2 Forest
1 Plains

SB
3 Extirpate
3 Duress
3 Krosan grip
4 Engineered Plague
2 Pithing needle

[morgan_coke]

JCteam,

I think i see what you're doing with the free cyclers and the aggro now, but I really don't understand Wall of Roots or Sensei's Divining Top. If you were going to run a wall, it seems like Blossoms would be a much better choice, and top doesn't seem to offer that much of a bob or selection bonus when you already have so many cyclers and your curve is so low.

I'm also rather unsold on the use of Mox Diamonds with only twenty two lands. Yes, I know you can get the lands back with Loam, but it just seems like they'd be clogging your hand an awful lot of the time.

I think you'd be a lot happier with -3 Wall of Roots, -2 Sensei's Divining Top, -1 Mox Diamond, +3 Chrome Mox, +2 Engineered Explosives, +4 Wall of Blossoms/Unearth. Unearth truly is sick in this deck when it can cast Bob, Witness, or Goyf for B. I dig the t2 WoR, top, activate top on opponents' eot play, but I don't think this deck neds it.

[JCteam_ripio]

Morgan
My argument against chrome mox is that you need to pitch a card (do you really want to remove a Goyf?) just to add one color (2 with vindicate) in a 3 color deck, whereas Mox diamond can fix your mana with a single land. I know the land count is low, that's why I use Wall of roots and Top to smooth the mana. Wall of blossoms vs Wall of roots: WoR stops a 4/5 Tarmogoyf and survives :)

Unearth... I'll have to try it

[zulander]

Ok, well instead of splashing blue what about playing maelstorm djinn? You don't have to flip it since you're playing astral slide, and since it comes into play face up it doesn't get any counters on it. I hear a 7/6 flier turn 4 is pretty good.

[morgan_coke]

zulander,

if you're just wanting to abuse flip cards, then momentary blink is a much better engine, and if you're only including a card so you can flip it, then thats where you want to go.

rcteam,

the problem with mox diamond and low count manabases is you'll need to both play a land and pitch one to mox to get the benefit. thats why diamond is only played in decks with 25+ lands, because it doesn't replace a land, whereas chrome mox, needing a spell, does. also, in the unlikely event you have nothing worth less than a goyf to pitch to mox, who cares? its not like your draw engine won't be getting you other ones, or recurring them with witness/unearth etc. Also, Wall of Roots doesn't stay 0/5 for very long at all, so if you're counting on it to stop 4/5's, you're making a mistake. If you really wnt to run a wall, I have to completely recommend blossoms over roots. But i still like unearth in that spot significantly more than either wall.

[JCteam_ripio]

Morgan
You're absolutely right about the land count but I'll stick to Mox Diamond cause I found it superior to Chrome mox (it's a manner of personal preferences) I will like to try the following changes
- 2 SDT
- 1 Street Wraith
- 3 Wall of Blossoms
+ 3 Wasteland (25 lands)
+ 3 Unearth :)