[Deck] Turbo Obliterate

[Top Deck]

Here is an old deck with a new twist:

// Lands
4 Badlands
4 Darksteel Citadel
4 Peat Bog
4 Sandstone Needle
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Dwarven Ruins
4 Ebon Stronghold

// Creatures
1 Greater Gargadon
4 Nihilith
4 Epochrasite

// Spells
4 Darksteel Ingot
1 Demonfire
2 Cabal Therapy
2 Nevinyrral's Disk
2 Damnation
4 Obliterate
4 Duress
4 Jokulhaups

The deck smashes aggro decks. It also has duress and therapy to help out the combo matchups. Control can't stop obliterate and disk is a problem for them as well. All of the critters have suspend which for the most part make them nearly untargettable and unkillable (as long as they are suspended).

It is also good to have 1 demonfire in the deck as a finisher. You can demonfire them randomly for 10-12.

Reasons for some card inclusions:
Disk is the first board sweeper. It is great for smashing stuff like enchantments like Confinement, Worship, and annoyances like Humility.
Obliterate/haups really need no explaination. These two cards give you the edge. Obliterate versus counter based decks followed with haups afterwards or haups versus aggro decks.

Damnation is the best creature mass removal spell printed in black, and you can never have enough creature kill. :smile:

Originally I had 4 greater gargadons but right now he is anti-synergetic.

Possible inclusions would be seething song.

[Hummingbird TG]

How's about the Gobbos matchup?

[Bahamuth]

I like this idea. The problem I see is that your lands all come into play tapped, which means no turn 1 Duress/Therapy's to stop combo. I also doubt Epochrasite is really needed in this deck, as are all 12 board sweepers.


Perhaps Lake of the Dead with some more swamps?

[theFury]

Chimeric Idol could be good in here. Also, if you do decide to run more black, Bane of the Living is a nice sweeper that can beat.

[Cavius The Great]

I like the deck idea, Topdeck. Have you considered running enchantments, preferably ones that are able to draw you cards? I remember back in the day people ran Jokulhaups in Necro builds becuase Jokulhaups didn't destroy Necropotence. Maybe if you can find an enchantment similiar to Necropotence, it might deserve an inclusion in the deck. The main purpose for card drawing enchantments with board sweepers is that you're able recover quicker than your opponent. I know I'm stating the obvious but I'm just putting the idea on the table. Consider Phyrexian Arena or anything else similiar. Just my two cents. :wink:

[Top Deck]

How's about the Gobbos matchup?
Favorable. You can haups turn 3 or damnation turn 2 if needed. Once you haups or obliterate you secure board position.


I like this idea. The problem I see is that your lands all come into play tapped, which means no turn 1 Duress/Therapy's to stop combo. I also doubt Epochrasite is really needed in this deck, as are all 12 board sweepers.
Perhaps Lake of the Dead with some more swamps?
There is badlands in the deck so no not all of the lands come into play tapped, but most of the time versus combo you want to duress turn 2 anyhow.
Epochrasite is pretty much amazing. It recurs every third turn for free. Great 1st turn chump blocker (ancient tomb + it).


Chimeric Idol could be good in here. Also, if you do decide to run more black, Bane of the Living is a nice sweeper that can beat.
Yup Idol is indeed pretty good. Too bad it gets Ko'ed by all of the sweepers (disk, haups, and oblit)


I like the deck idea, Topdeck. Have you considered running enchantments, preferably ones that are able to draw you cards? I remember back in the day people ran Jokulhaups in Necro builds becuase Jokulhaups didn't destroy Necropotence. Maybe if you can find an enchantment similiar to Necropotence, it might deserve an inclusion in the deck. The main purpose for card drawing enchantments with board sweepers is that you're able recover quicker than your opponent. I know I'm stating the obvious but I'm just putting the idea on the table. Consider Phyrexian Arena or anything else similiar. Just my two cents. :wink:
Actually that's a good idea Cavius. I originally had arena in the deck, but taking damage was a serious issue. Ancient Tombs + arenas were a bit too much. If there is a black enchantment that gains me life then I'll reconsider it.

I still definitely need to fit in 3 Seething Songs, but not sure which cards to cut.

[Elfrago]

Using some mana artifacts could speed up the deck even more. What about Coalition Relic for example?

[Bahamuth]

A turn 2 Duress vs. Belcher is probably too late....

[rufus]

Lotus Petal might be a decent fit - it's sack friendly and fast.

White has Magus of the Disk and Balancing Act, which could be very interesting for you. Also, have you considered Pox?

It seems like the deck has issues with first-turn combo decks like CRET Belcher and TES.

[electrolyze]

and is darksteel brute not good in thid deck because its indestructible?

[Happy Gilmore]

ooo...lake of the dead sounds very interesting....

[Top Deck]

and is darksteel brute not good in thid deck because its indestructible?

the problem with darksteel brute is that it is a mana sink.

[calosso]

There is an extreme amount of coalition relic missing from this deck. It can produce all the color for the deck and it can accelerate you into all your wrath effects.

[Top Deck]

There is an extreme amount of coalition relic missing from this deck. It can produce all the color for the deck and it can accelerate you into all your wrath effects.

Coalition Relic isn't bad. It is something that will have to be tested and considered. The only qualm I have with it is that it gets swept away with Obliterate/disk/haups that it might be better to just run seething song instead of it.

[hi-val]

Other things to consider are Mind Stone and Balancing Act. Mind Stone cycles away if you don't need it when you blow up the world. The latter blows out any deck without counters, and if you Chant it through, it gets through that as well. Probably something that would take the deck on another tangent though.

[Top Deck]

Other things to consider are Mind Stone and Balancing Act. Mind Stone cycles away if you don't need it when you blow up the world. The latter blows out any deck without counters, and if you Chant it through, it gets through that as well. Probably something that would take the deck on another tangent though.

you're right. I totally forgot about specter chant. How does obliterate deal with that?

[Cavius The Great]

@Topdeck - You mentioned earlier on how Phyrexian Arena hurts too much with Ancient Tombs. I may have found the solution. Soul Spike. Here are the current changes I would make to the deck after implementing Phyrexian Arena.

-1 Greater Gargadon
-1 Demonfire
-2 Nevinyrral's Disk
+2 Soul Spike
+2 Phyrexian Arena

Soul Spike is also good becuase you can cast it free even after you 'blow' everything up. I'm also thinking it works well with Phyrexian Arena since you're percentage of drawing into black cards every turn is increased by 50%. It also offsets the life loss from tombs and arenas which is the main reason I thought it deserved an inclusion. You can also hardcast it in the deck with all the mana you would have. Let me know what you think about those adjustments.

[Top Deck]

@Topdeck - You mentioned earlier on how Phyrexian Arena hurts too much with Ancient Tombs. I may have found the solution. Soul Spike. Here are the current changes I would make to the deck after implementing Phyrexian Arena.

-1 Greater Gargadon
-1 Demonfire
-2 Nevinyrral's Disk
+2 Soul Spike
+2 Phyrexian Arena

Soul Spike is also good becuase you can cast it free even after you 'blow' everything up. I'm also thinking it works well with Phyrexian Arena since you're percentage of drawing into black cards every turn is increased by 50%. It also offsets the life loss from tombs and arenas which is the main reason I thought it deserved an inclusion. You can also hardcast it in the deck with all the mana you would have. Let me know what you think about those adjustments.

Soul Spike is pretty good, but demonfire seems to be a stronger card, but I had a funny thought though. What if I axed the black suspend critters and threw in 4 stuffy dolls?

Stuffy can block all day and not worry, and it can tap to deal 1 point of damage. In fact, all of the stronger cards for the deck seem to be alluding to white anyhow. Cards like rule of law, ghostly prison, and even pariah seem to fit more naturally in the deck. Also stuffy with guilty conscience can auto win games.

[Elfrago]

Unmask could work as a replacement for the "turn 1 duress".

[Top Deck]

Unmask could work as a replacement for the "turn 1 duress".

Very true. What would a mostly black version of the deck look like though? And would tombstalker find a place in the deck?

[Elfrago]

Looking at your list, the only Non-Black cards that can be cut are:

Nevyrral Disk: You already ha ve 4 Obliterate, 4 Jokulhaups and 2 Damnation. This is redundant.

Epochrasite: Maybe there is something better.

Tombstalker could be good, you can cast it for just BB after blowing everything.

[Illissius]

Hmm. For some reason I thought there was a Portal version of Jokulhaups with a different name, but that's apparently only for Wildfire. It does have Devastation for :5::r::r: which destroys creatures and lands. You could also consider Decree of Annihilation, which cycles for an uncounterable (except by Stifle) Geddon, and if you're going heavily into black, Death Cloud.

Do you have any plan against opponents who will just Force, or play a land and then Swords your win conditions? I know you have Duress and Therapy, but it still makes me uneasy...

[FoolofaTook]

This is a classic permanent destruction deck. The sweepers are very strong and fairly mana intensive, making them a bit slow under many circumstances.

The weaknesses of the deck are when it faces one of two fairly common archetypes: burn and low permanent control.

Against burn you'll get a near-lock a lot of the time and then be unable to finish consistently as the opponent looks for a bolt or chain lightning to finish you off of the land in his hand. I played a black/green/blue landkill deck in the old type 1 that absolutely destroyed most of the decks out there including all of the great control decks however it could not handle dedicated burn consistently and always went out in the final four rounds when it matched up against it.

Against low permanent control you'll find that the sweepers just aren't that great against a deck that really only wants or needs three or four mana on the board tops at any given time and maybe one effective nonland permanent. It's almost worth boarding the sweepers out for Sinkholes and Stone Rains so that you maintain your mana base while inconveniencing theirs.

I like the Tombstalker idea that several people have floated. It's a fast efficient killer that partly negates Tarmogoyf, at least not making your GY work against you.

BTW, the overall idea is very strong and will really obliterate a lot of decks out there. It's roguey enough that many decks will be unable to cope with what it does as they are tuned for the overall meta. It's just a few deck types that will present major problems.

[nickrobes]

nether spirit is the way to go for your kill. dont use artifacts for acceleration, just use sac lands.

i remember people playing Nether-Haups a while back, Masques/Invasions T2, with discard, seals, like 30 land, and red Xs for the finish. cant find a list though.

[Elfrago]

nether spirit is the way to go for your kill. dont use artifacts for acceleration, just use sac lands.

Nether Spirit is SLOW.

And in a format filled with wasteland using only Sac-Lands is dangerous.



i remember people playing Nether-Haups a while back, Masques/Invasions T2, with discard, seals, like 30 land, and red Xs for the finish. cant find a list though.

Maybe instead of playing a T2 deck of 4-5 years ago we should try to adapt it to Legacy...

[Top Deck]

Nether Spirit is SLOW.

And in a format filled with wasteland using only Sac-Lands is dangerous.

Maybe instead of playing a T2 deck of 4-5 years ago we should try to adapt it to Legacy...

yes definitely Wasteland is an issue for the deck. The deck is very competitive against most legacy decks that we tested it against.

Remember it isn't about land denial as much as perm denial. The deck ramps up a lot of perm advantage and never really "over-extends". Nether Spirit is Slow, but in my current version I am running 4 epochasites (which are fast) and of course 1 Demonfire for the win.

[Illissius]

Apologies for the necro.

I had an interesting idea for this deck back when it was posted, and another recent thread reminded me of it. How about starting with a shell like this:

4 Duress/Thoughtseize
3 Cabal Therapy
(4 Phyrexian Arena?)
4 Burning Wish
4 Obliterate
4 Greater Gargadon
4 Academy Rector
2 Form of the Dragon
1 Dovescape
1 Humility
1 Nether Void
SB: 1 Cabal Therapy
SB: 1 Jokulhaups
SB: 1 Enduring Ideal
SB: 1 Haunting Echoes
SB: other bullets (Smallpox? Death Cloud?)

There's a lot of lovely synergy in there. You can just sacrifice Rector early to Therapy or Gargadon -- which are also great as protection and finishers -- to fetch a bomb (and there's few decks either Form, Humility, or Dovescape isn't crippling against), or have it die when the world ends and fetch either one of those or a Nether Void to seal it. All of those enchantments are also in your colors and hardcastable, and sticking an Enduring Ideal in the board is so hot. (You could maybe add some maindeck, even). There's also little things like Obliterate getting around both Dovescape and Void (and not destroying enchantments), and Gargadon sacrificing your Flagstones. The main thing I'm uncertain about is how to build the manabase, because there's just so many options. (Ritual, Song, Lotus, Lake of the Dead, Pentad Prism, Tomb/City, Flagstones, Citadel, depletion lands, saclands, duals, fetches, Flagstones, Ingot, ...)

[Media314r8]

Favorable. You can haups turn 3 or damnation turn 2 if needed. Once you haups or obliterate you secure board position.


HAHAHAHA... o wow. Jokulhaups on turn three... so you'd need three mana accelerators to do that, and you'd be at what life afterwards with your god hand?

So what does the deck do against "turn one, lackey, go." "turn two swing in, drop ringleader... win"??? The whole 'damnation' plan doesnt deal with goblins with haste too well (and vial), and haups/obliterate seems unlikely as goblins packs wasteland and port to deny you all your double mana sources that would facilitate such an obscene play.


Needs less 6+cc spells and more stacks.

[Cabal-kun]

So what does the deck do against "turn one, lackey, go." "turn two swing in, drop ringleader... win"???

See Goblins decline and Goyf's rise. Turn one Lackey isn't as huge of a concern anymore.

[Grollub]

After having witnessed a friends casual obliterate deck, have you considered using Squandered Resources/Exploration/Life of the Loam? Each on their own are strong cards, and the synergy between any combination of the three is really strong.

Secondly, could an enchantress shell might also work as a base for turbo-obliterate? The thought of having Replenish (having another uber-bomb is always nice), Obliterate and all the goodies of enchantress in the same deck is just dead sexy; at the least in theory - being that both parts seem to be synergistic - Obliterate keeps enchantments on the board, and Replenish puts you right back in the game should something go wrong.

[APriestOfGix]

OK, ever since i played U/R Obliterate when Affinity ruled (T2) i have loved the card.

This seems like the best way to go. So far i have been pwning on MWS. It plays like a control deck, but has inevibility.

Thats what i always wanted. You play as the control deck, and when you run out of counters, you nuke the board, and bring in a Form or a Greater...


// Deck file for Magic Workstation (http://www.magicworkstation.com)

// Lands
4 [ON] Polluted Delta
4 [TE] Ancient Tomb
1 [B] Plateau
2 [B] Tundra
4 [ON] Flooded Strand
4 [B] Volcanic Island
4 [TSP] Flagstones of Trokair

// Creatures
3 [TSP] Greater Gargadon
4 [UD] Academy Rector

// Spells
4 [IN] Obliterate
4 [CS] Counterbalance
1 [SC] Form of the Dragon
4 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
4 [SC] Stifle
1 [DIS] Dovescape
4 [8E] Mana Leak
4 [MM] Counterspell
4 [AL] Force of Will

// Sideboard
SB: 3 [MM] Squee, Goblin Nabob
SB: 4 [JU] Solitary Confinement
SB: 4 [US] Arcane Laboratory
SB: 4 [TE] Propaganda


The board needs Uber help, it's just some random stuff...

Maybe In the eye of chaos?


Edit:

I think i just broke the format!

Seriously, it has game against EVERYTHING!!! I can't beat enchantress, but i just WORKED 4 Thresh lists, Went 6-2 against 43 land, and owned a Glimpse -> Tendrils deck.

My only trouble is getting wasteland locked (the 2 losses to 43 land) I never need the plateu, so i'm trying to find a way to add a few basics into the deck.

Also it dosn't do well against goblins, but it WORKS thresh. You just counter goyfs untill you both run out of counters. Then your drop a rector, and pray it lives 1 turn to obliterate the board next turn.

Also 2 rector and an Opliterate is GG, i went Form, Dovescape, and the guy showed my 2 disenchant and a grip, and i LOLed...

[Happy Gilmore]

OK, ever since i played U/R Obliterate when Affinity ruled (T2) i have loved the card.

This seems like the best way to go. So far i have been pwning on MWS. It plays like a control deck, but has inevibility.

Thats what i always wanted. You play as the control deck, and when you run out of counters, you nuke the board, and bring in a Form or a Greater...


// Deck file for Magic Workstation (http://www.magicworkstation.com)

// Lands
4 [ON] Polluted Delta
4 [TE] Ancient Tomb
1 [b] Plateau
2 [b] Tundra
4 [ON] Flooded Strand
4 [b] Volcanic Island
4 [TSP] Flagstones of Trokair

// Creatures
3 [TSP] Greater Gargadon
4 [UD] Academy Rector

// Spells
4 [IN] Obliterate
4 [CS] Counterbalance
1 [SC] Form of the Dragon
4 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
4 [SC] Stifle
1 [DIS] Dovescape
4 [8E] Mana Leak
4 [MM] Counterspell
4 [AL] Force of Will

// Sideboard
SB: 3 [MM] Squee, Goblin Nabob
SB: 4 [JU] Solitary Confinement
SB: 4 [US] Arcane Laboratory
SB: 4 [TE] Propaganda


The board needs Uber help, it's just some random stuff...

Maybe In the eye of chaos?


Edit:

I think i just broke the format!

Seriously, it has game against EVERYTHING!!! I can't beat enchantress, but i just WORKED 4 Thresh lists, Went 6-2 against 43 land, and owned a Glimpse -> Tendrils deck.

My only trouble is getting wasteland locked (the 2 losses to 43 land) I never need the plateu, so i'm trying to find a way to add a few basics into the deck.

Also it dosn't do well against goblins, but it WORKS thresh. You just counter goyfs untill you both run out of counters. Then your drop a rector, and pray it lives 1 turn to obliterate the board next turn.

Also 2 rector and an Opliterate is GG, i went Form, Dovescape, and the guy showed my 2 disenchant and a grip, and i LOLed...

There is a suprizing lack of Brainstorm in your list. 8 fetchlands, you should take advantage of this.

[APriestOfGix]

There is a suprizing lack of Brainstorm in your list. 8 fetchlands, you should take advantage of this.

ah yes, so true, what to cut...

yeah, and i even find meself with balance on the table, and the spell to stop it, in my hand, and i forgot brainstorm...

i must go kill myself now, and stop playing magic, forgetting brainstorm in blue, is like forgetting force of will.

Or forgetting Belcher in CRET

[APriestOfGix]

want to find room to run up to 3 stifle (maybe 4, cause they OWN!)


// Lands
4 [ON] Polluted Delta
2 [B] Tundra
4 [TE] Ancient Tomb
4 [ON] Flooded Strand
4 [B] Volcanic Island
4 [TSP] Flagstones of Trokair

// Creatures
3 [TSP] Greater Gargadon
4 [UD] Academy Rector

// Spells
4 [IN] Obliterate
4 [MM] Brainstorm
2 [SC] Form of the Dragon
4 [8E] Mana Leak
4 [CS] Counterbalance
4 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
1 [DIS] Dovescape
4 [MM] Counterspell
4 [AL] Force of Will

// Sideboard
SB: 4 [JU] Solitary Confinement
SB: 4 [TE] Propaganda
SB: 4 [US] Arcane Laboratory
SB: 3 [MM] Squee, Goblin Nabob


Edit: Just pulled brainstorm back out, i don't like it. Much better to have stifle on theor fetches...

[TheMightyQuinn]

Edit: Just pulled brainstorm back out, i don't like it. Much better to have stifle on theor fetches...

How about...
-1 Stifle
-1 SDT
-2 Mana Leak
+4 Brainstorm

You still get to have Stifle shenanigans this way. Four SDTs shouldn't be needed with the addition of Brainstorm. Plus, you need some way to shuffle Dovescape back.

[Happy Gilmore]

How about...
-1 Stifle
-1 SDT
-2 Mana Leak
+4 Brainstorm

You still get to have Stifle shenanigans this way. Four SDTs shouldn't be needed with the addition of Brainstorm. Plus, you need some way to shuffle Dovescape back.


These cuts seem alot better. I don't see how you can justify not running Brainstorm when your running 8x fetchland, 4x counterbalance (shuffles away Multiples), and a 8cc Sorcery which you need to find mana sources for.

[APriestOfGix]

true.

what do you guys think of the color combination?

i ran this back in Affinity days (T2 so no Force etc.) and it was amazing. You stall till you break the world, then win. Of course here, you have better win conditions...


I have yet to lose a match.

[Illissius]

Is 23 land -- even if four of them are Tombs -- and four Obliterates really the best way to go? Seems like you'll have trouble casting them until really late in the game, and have multiples clogging your hand until then.

[APriestOfGix]

so far with all the top action it hasn't been a problem...

[94teen]

4 Flagstones doesn't seem that good to me with only 3 lands to fetch. Has it been working out alright? I might try changing the balance a bit, maybe to 3 flagstones and fitting a few more duals or basics in to give you even a little game against wasteland.

[Media314r8]

want to find room to run up to 3 stifle (maybe 4, cause they OWN!)

Edit: Just pulled brainstorm back out, i don't like it. Much better to have stifle on theor fetches...

Stifle is a bad card unless you are expecting a lot of storm combo (or are playing stifle-naught) as it is great to stifle some newb's fetch at the beginning of a tournament, but it becomes more and more irrelevant as you make it up to the top tables. I for one, have never stifled a fetch in a top8. (save for a late-game fetch most likely wanted to play goyf AND have a counterspell, but it was mainly irrelevant.) Stifle doesn't work against good players, unless they've kept a one lander, haven't drawn their second, and even then you have to keep mana open your first and second turn. If you're going to hold down your mana and plays just to hopefully wreck someones land, just fing play wasteland. Brainstorm digs for your combo pieces, and the ability to fetch, brainstorm is comparable to recall. Stifles in the side if you must, but please for the storm combo-meta, not for wrecking poor players fetches.

[Cavius The Great]

This deck needs more mana acceleration. Maybe 2-3 Mox Diamond?

[Silverdragon]

And more Plains. Or you could cut the Flagstones for more blue producing lands.
The concept looks really cool so I hope this deck will become a contender but your list has some rather obvious flaws. For example the 4 Flagstones with only 3(!) Plains-cards in the whole deck. You also play 7 lands that don't produce blue mana yet you want to get double U for Counterspell and Counterbalance asap.
Also the deck's plan is to play a 8 mana spell preferably every game. With 4 SDT and 4 BS I don't see a problem hitting 8 mana on turn 7 (Tomb) or 8 but that is still turn 7 or 8. Using your own words:
...the deck has not been even casting Obliterate. It seems to win before that.
Maybe this deck has to change from an Obliterate deck to an Academy Rector deck but then it'd basically be a worse version of the Gamekeeper/Salvager deck (because that deck ends the game immediately when Gamekeeper dies by comboing).

edit: How has the CB engine been so far? I count only 8 1cc spells and 10 2cc spells (assuming you have a CB on board). Was there ever a problem setting up the CB against certain decks?

[APriestOfGix]

The deck is AMAZING!

currently 54-3 in match testing, it's bad against Wasteland lock, and Burn.

I have taken my list down, as i have Totally new list, that is doing amazing. I'll post it up when i got to the next tourny...

[Fuzzy]

2 cents: In the Rector Version, what you guys think about Enduring Ideal?

[Oros, the Avenger]

currently 54-3 in match testing, it's bad against Wasteland lock, and Burn.

What could you play against Burn in SB? Because in my meta runs a ton of Burn, so i definitly need something. Is the Squee/Confinement Combo fast enough?

[FredMaster]

One card against Burn, which is also really easy to cast with your nice lil Tombs:
Chalice of the Void

[Zach Tartell]

The deck is AMAZING!

currently 54-3 in match testing, it's bad against Wasteland lock, and Burn.

I have taken my list down, as i have Totally new list, that is doing amazing. I'll post it up when i got to the next tourny...

This is a ridiculous lie. What have you been playing against? 9 land stompy? 60 Island.dec?

[Arsenal]

I remember back in MM/Inv Standard, Nether Spirit and Chimeric Idol were good enough to be used as kill cards in Turbo-Obliterate. Not so anymore? have new creatures been released that have better synergy with Obliterate?

[Cavius The Great]

I remember back in MM/Inv Standard, Nether Spirit and Chimeric Idol were good enough to be used as kill cards in Turbo-Obliterate. Not so anymore? have new creatures been released that have better synergy with Obliterate?

Ephocrasite, mainly.

[kirdape3]

Turbo-Obliterate (as updated, Balancing Tings) uses mostly Terravore and Anurid Brushhopper as kill conditions now.

[APriestOfGix]

Run Ivroy Mask...

[Cavius The Great]

Turbo-Obliterate (as updated, Balancing Tings) uses mostly Terravore and Anurid Brushhopper as kill conditions now.

That's gotta be in Extended. And that's not Turbo-Obliterate that's Balancing Act.DEC.