Charstick

[mugs]

Char-stick….revisited

I have been having a lot of fun with this lately, and feel I have it optimized a good bit, but perhaps there's stuff I have missed - so its been a while and I'm tossing my pet deck out there for any comments or constructive criticism.

There are two versions –slightly different - the older version being White and Red I have tested the most, the second version I have recently added green to the mix in June which has improved probability with mana and a new sideboard card, but less testing.

CharStick GWR (most current July version)

3 Goblin Char belcher
1 Moat
2 Isochron Scepter
2 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Orim's Chant
4 Abeyance
3 Enlightened Tutor
1 Seal of Cleansing
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Powder Keg
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Pyroclasm

2 Jeweled Amulet
3 Land Grant
1 Noble Templar
4 Eternal Dragon
4 Tithe
4 Chrome Mox
1 Plains
3 Savannah
1 Tiaga
3 Sacred Foundry
4 Plateau

Sideboard:

4 Jotun Grunt
2 Tormod's Crypt
3 Goblin Welder
3 Krosan Grip
1 Pithing Needle
2 Pyroclasm

________

Charstick RW (old version from spring)

3 Char Belcher
1 Moat
2 Isochron Scepter
4 Orim's Chant
4 Abeyance
3 Enlightened Tutor
2 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Seal of Cleansing
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Powder Keg
3 Swords to Plowshares
3 Pyroclasm

3 Jeweled Amulet
3 Noble Templar
4 Eternal Dragon
4 Tithe
4 Chrome Mox
4 Plains
4 Plateau
4 Sacred Foundry

Sideboard:

4 Jotun Grunt
1 Tormod's Crypt
4 Goblin Welder
2 Aura of Silence
1 Pithing Needle
1 Pyroclasm
1 Rough / Tumble
1 Swords to Plowshares

What is it?
Control/Lock/Combo-y/synergy –kind a thing, While Char stick is fairly different from other decks, I think it falls closest to White Control in many aspects.

So how it plays: basically it’s a funky mana base that supports strong Char Belcher activations, and fast Isochron Scepters or spot solution. It typical plays a control deck role until a win condition can be activated and/or forced through if need be with some chants and abeyances. The win conditions are creatures or Goblin Charbelcher. The deck can have some broken plays - sometimes an early Scepter with a Chant, or Abeyance will just overwhelm a deck. Other times fast mana and pulling out a few plains makes an early Goblin Char Belcher lethal on its first activation.

While it falls closest to White Control types its different in several ways: it has a kill condition that can be fairly quick – a lock potential from Scepter – the deck dips into red for some cheap removal in pyroclasm, utility/resiliency with Goblin Welder and use of mountains for charbelcher – a mana base that while tight, facilitates Char Belcher, can have early acceleration, and work around land disruption with artifact mana and tithes – Utilizes E. tutor for some flexibility against various opponents - Green for some mana support and strong sideboard card Krosan Grip.

I put this deck out a couple of years ago for the CAND contest on The Source but my thread was wiped along with the rest of the old source threads a bit ago. Though I heard the mods can dig up the old threads it might be useful to compare to the current list, just as a reference. I have since worked on the list whenever a new set comes out to just see how it progresses. Primarily I worked on reinforcing a positive goblins matchup with what eventually became main deck pyroclasms and to improve the threshold/pithing needle problems I was having - which ended up being main decked Powder kegs and E. Explosives along with more sideboard help (almost transformational vs Threshold). The other change was a bit of refinement on the mana base so that it could reliably play its mana base going first (as I advocated going second originally with the build). An unusual card I've come to use is Jeweled Amulet – Often considered very weak has surprisingly works quite well in this particular deck and how it sets up – especially in conjunction with plains cycling, working around Daze or Rishadan Port. It's been nice to see the deck retain a good resilience to some of the newer storm combo decks as the changes though unintentional at the time seem to also help with goblin tokens and Tarmgoyf.

I reintroduced STP back onto the list replacing Lightning Helix – I like Helix a lot, but goyf has changed up thresh and some other agro decks enough to consider the switch, my biggest concern was losing a win/control/life gain condition via Lightning Helix on an Isochron Scepter, but STP is looking like the better option right now after more testing. I also have refined my side boarding a good bit that has eventually led me to reducing the number of scepters from 4 to 2. The Scepter change came from me being unhappy vs a deck like threshold. Also the loss of Lightning Helix, and the increased use of Stifle, Krosan Grip and EE in the meta. IBA a frequent source poster recently put out a deck on the source The Mighty Quinn which I found had surprisingly a lot in common with my own build of Char Stick I was working on at the time, and that led me to consider replacing them with Sensei's Divining Top. Since then it has been a solid trade off so far.

THE LAND BASE. I think this factor most often nauseates people seeing the deck for the first time. I have tooled with it for years and do realize it only has 12 actual cards that say land on them. I have likely tried every possible card option available while maintaining the focus of the deck. However I am always open to suggestion.

Statistically I count 19 - 1st turn mana drops (I include Chrome Mox and Land Grant) which is 94% probability in a seven card hand. An opening 7 card hand consideration for mulligan's is to look for a way to achieve 2 mana by your 2nd turn. With it your likely good to go, without, it is fairly risky. I don’t consider this absolute advice but, generally a sound approach for this deck in general. An example of 2 mana on turn 2 could be as odd as Chrome Mox and a Jeweled Amulet. This is "about" 86% probability which would be similar to a standard deck with 24 land looking for 2 in there opening hand. Moreover, there are 30 cards dedicated to mana generation in someway main deck, plus 2 Sensi's Tops and 3 E. Tutors to help out in a pinch – so far I have found this gives it good resilience.

I included some basic side boarding outlines I have been using for a few deck types to give some indication of how it works. (Goblin Welder is quite useful vs. counters, artifact destruction and discard

Sideboard: Charstick GWR version

Goblins
IN: 2 Pyroclasm, 2 Goblin Welder
OUT: 4 Abeyance

Threshold
IN: 3 Goblin Welder, 4 Jotun Grunt, 1 Tormod's Crypt, 2 Krosan Grip
OUT: 3 Enlightened Tutor, 2 Pyroclasm, 2 Isochron Scepter, 1 Seal of Cleansing, 2 Sensei's Divining Top

Cret/Belcher
IN: 2 Pyroclasm, 3 Krosan Grip, 1 Pithing Needle
OUT: 4 STP, 1 Moat, 1 Charblecher

BW Homebrew
IN: 3 Goblin Welder
OUT: 3 Abeyance

Landstill
IN: 3 Goblin Welder, 3 Krosan Grip, 1 Pithing Needle
OUT: 3 Enlightened Tutor, 2 Pyroclasm, 2 Isochron Scepter


Thanks in advance for any comments, I'll answer what I can.

[Benie Bederios]

It would be a shame too let an original deck like this not getting attention. I have tested a list like this too, allthough mine wasn't as tuned as this one. I do have some questions.

How do the Land Grants hold up. In the games I played I never used the alternative CC for it. It's just is bad for a control deck. I just use 8 plainscyclers now.

The second thing I did, was to splash black in the list. This gives the deck nice cards like Duress and Chains of Mephiwhatshisname.

Just some things to think about though.

BB

[GreenOne]

Here's a list that i used to play. It's monocolored, but the game plan seems quite similar.
Here's the thing:

// Lands
11 [6E] Plains (4)

// Spells
3 [NE] Seal of Cleansing
4 [TE] Lotus Petal
1 [WL] Phyrexian Furnace
1 [MM] Story Circle
1 [CHK] Ghostly Prison
1 [MR] Isochron Scepter
3 [MR] Goblin Charbelcher
4 [MR] Chrome Mox
4 [PS] Orim's Chant
3 [TE] Scroll Rack
3 [WL] Argivian Find
4 [U] Swords to Plowshares
2 [SOK] Pithing Needle
4 [VI] Tithe
1 [MM] Ivory Mask
3 [MI] Enlightened Tutor
1 [LG] Moat
1 [UD] Powder Keg
1 [8E] Ensnaring Bridge
4 [PLC] Porphyry Nodes

// Sideboard
SB: 2 [SOK] Pithing Needle
SB: 1 [MR] Sunbeam Spellbomb
SB: 4 [MR] Rule of Law
SB: 3 [CH] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 1 [MM] Spiritual Focus
SB: 1 [6E] Warmth
SB: 2 [DK] Tivadar's Crusade
SB: 1 [FD] Razormane Masticore


Instead of Pyroclasm I play Porphyr Nodes, that can slow down goblins and is a godsend vs Threshold.
I never thought about Eternal Dragon (my bad) but it's probably a great card in the deck. Same thing about Jeweled Amulet.
The deck can get rid of useless Art/Ench with Scroll Rack, and then shuffle away with a Belcher activation (see the sinergy?), a Tithe, a E. Tutor (or, in the future, a cycled dragon) It sucks if you draw in multiples, but it's good and you can shufle away the 2nd one.

[mugs]

Thanks for the comments

@Benie Bederios: thanks for the bump, your comment on Land Grant hits on the heart of the concern for the new deck vs the old version, hence one of the main reason for putting both up to highlight the difference. I am on the fence on this. However, I suspect it is favorable to use Land Grant and my testing is not finding it overly problematic, (though I have not had time to thoroughly test the new version – as I mentioned in my opening). The benefits I find are the increased probability of a first turn land drop from 16 to 19. There is also slight increase in color probability, but it is mostly small for getting a red or green mana source. This increase is primarily for decks that attack the mana base, like goblins or Discard/LD, The drawback is revealing your hand early (mostly only first turn) or potentially having it countered when hard casting. Otherwise Land Grant is similar to Land Cycling cost wise at 2cc (though hard casting it requires green mana) which is usually how I have used it. I have found vs a deck where I may need to use the alt casting cost, showing my hand is often less relevant than ensuring a smooth early mana base. Like aggro or discard based decks.

A mana base without it I would recommend to look like this:
3 Jeweled Amulet
3 Noble Templar
4 Eternal Dragon
4 Tithe
4 Chrome Mox
2 Plains
2 Savannah
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Plateau

I do like Krosan Grip and will be keeping them in the SB so access to green would still be needed

@ Benie Bederios: conserning putting black into the mix- I have not been able to justify black in the deck as of yet. Adding Black is done fairly easily enough mana wise, however a reliable first turn black mana for duress is neither likely nor consistent with the fundamental nature or the mana base. So it wouldn’t be very good for breaking up something like combo. That basic nature being the need for early access to white mana and maintaining a high probability of flipping over a mountain with Goblin Charbelcher mid game. But more importantly what is black bringing into the mix that will help/work with the deck and what would it replace? Duress doe not have the versatility of Orim’s Chant or Abeyance main deck (in this deck as it is) nor the sideboard over stuff like Goblin Welder or Krosan Grip. At least that’s what I believe – I’m open to change – I just have not seen a compelling reason yet.

@ GreenOne: your deck looks like fun. It’s hard to really say much here because you posted a whole deck list, and I don’t really want to respond to a whole deck list and all the different card choices. The deck dispite having some similarities it also has some significant differences, but I’ll highlight a few observations.

Putting 8 Mountain/Plain into your deck may be helpful with regards to Charbelcher activations even if it remains mono white.
Porphyry Nodes so far has been very weak for me vs. Goblins from my testing
I find Abeyance is very significant vs. combo or control and always seem to end up with 4 main deck.
Scroll Rack and shuffling are cool but more often than not is a luxury of a winning position mid to late game and less an early game facilitator due to cost. Belcher synergy is mostly moot as its highly likely only 2 activations of a Goblin Charbelcher mid game or just 1 late is enough for lethal damage.

[GreenOne]

I made some changes to the monowhite version having in mind your version. Then I somewhat tested the version VS Goblins and Threshold and TES (seem like the hardest to beat of the combo decks on paper, excluding aluren and solidarity)
// Lands
13 [6E] Plains (4)

// Creatures
4 [SC] Eternal Dragon

// Spells
3 [NE] Seal of Cleansing
1 [WL] Phyrexian Furnace
1 [CHK] Ghostly Prison
1 [MR] Isochron Scepter
3 [MR] Goblin Charbelcher
3 [MR] Chrome Mox
4 [PS] Orim's Chant
3 [TE] Scroll Rack
2 [WL] Argivian Find
4 [U] Swords to Plowshares
1 [SOK] Pithing Needle
4 [VI] Tithe
4 [MI] Enlightened Tutor
1 [LG] Moat
1 [UD] Powder Keg
1 [8E] Ensnaring Bridge
4 [PLC] Porphyry Nodes
1 [MR] Rule of Law
1 [TE] Humility

// Sideboard
SB: 2 [SOK] Pithing Needle
SB: 3 [MR] Rule of Law
SB: 1 [MM] Story Circle
SB: 3 [CH] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 1 [MM] Spiritual Focus
SB: 1 [6E] Warmth
SB: 3 [DK] Tivadar's Crusade
SB: 1 [9E] Sacred Ground

Here are the results (presid, postside):

RG Goblins 4-1, 4-1. The match was somewhat one-sided. just gain 2 or three turns with STP, Nodes, needle, orim, then resolve a bomb like moat, scepter-chant, ghostly prison, humility. I never went under 10 life pre-side. The match i lost was due to mull to 4 (no lands). The postside matches went something similar. They board removal for your things, you board removal for their things and side out dead cards. The match i lost was due to Pyrostatic Pillar. I could not get rid of it in time.

Threshold (UGW) 4-1, 3-2 Clearly one sided the pre-side. Nodes shut their clock down (mongeese too), and a resolved bomb=GG (read moat). Postside things are A LOT more difficult, with them siding Ench/Artifact removal, counterbalance and Needle. There probably was some luck amount involved here, it's probably more like even or 2-3 for them. Unfortunately I coudn't find a Red Thresh to test :frown:

TES 2-3, 1-4 We were playing like we didn't know each other's deck, so 1 match I won preside was due to him playing a large amout of goblins and me tutoring for Powder Keg


Putting 8 Mountain/Plain into your deck may be helpful with regards to Charbelcher activations even if it remains mono white.
Porphyry Nodes so far has been very weak for me vs. Goblins from my testing
I find Abeyance is very significant vs. combo or control and always seem to end up with 4 main deck.


I didn't test abeyance at all, but i'm not satisfied with Rule of Laws in side. Nodes are good if you don't wait playing them. Let's assume they play turn 1 Lackey and you play turn 1 Nodes. Now they can play a critter through lackey, and you will take the lackey on your turn, or they will just not play anything letting Nodes die, in which case it's a double timewalk.

8 Mountains opens you to wasteland shenanigans and that may mean some hard time vs Goblins, Crucible, Loam and now even thresh.



Scroll Rack and shuffling are cool but more often than not is a luxury of a winning position mid to late game and less an early game facilitator due to cost. Belcher synergy is mostly moot as its highly likely only 2 activations of a Goblin Charbelcher mid game or just 1 late is enough for lethal damage.

The fact is that many games are won by resolving one of your bombs (each matchup has its bombs). You can find the bombs through E. Tutor or drawing them (unlikely as they are 1-2ofs). A single activation of Scroll Rack finds you one of those cards and get rid of unuseful cards you drew (rule of law vs thresh?). Having some card quality/selection is good.



Maybe the decks are just taking different directions. Do you, Mugs, feel like it's better if i open another thread for the thing?