[Deck] Ironbreaker (u/b/r still)

[nightbringer]

I made this deck with the help of some friends from our gamingclub in belgium so i named it Ironbreaker because thats the name of our club
It has a good matchup against a lot of decks and its fun to play it.

This is the version i made for the goyf meta but it needs some playtesting.
I hope you guys can give me some tips on how to make it better.

The old version had needles and leyline of the void in side but thats not important because the side is very meta oriented.
There where lightning bolts in the main but they where bad against goyf so i play smother now.

Maindeck:

spells
2x fact or fiction
4x Brainstorm
3x smother
3x Extirpate
4x Fire//Ice
3x Burning Wish
3x Counterspell
2x Daze
3x Damnation
4x Standstill
4x Force of Will
2x Crucible of Worlds

land:

3x Polluted Delta
4x Mishra's Factory
3x Bloodstained Mire
2x Volcanic Island
2x Wasteland
1x Barbarian Ring
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2x Underground Sea
2x Badlands
1x swamp
1x island
1x Mountain

Sideboard:
3x Pyroclasm
3x teferi's repsons
3x dures
1x Haunting Echoes
1x Demonfire
1x Cranial Extraction
1x Shattering Spree
1x chainers edict.
1x damnation

Card choises.

Lands: 23

Fetch: seems logical because i play 3 colors.
basic: needed in our meta because of the many LD decks like picula wasteland: wastelock and great against *****
mishra's: kill
Barbarian ring: kill
urborg: great to use my fetch late game
Duals: i play only 6 duals because the many LD decks here and i like it

Counterbase:
- Fow: A must in this deck and i play about 23 blue spells to feed it.
- daze: Great but i had to cut one to make room for fact or fiction.
- counterspel: mostly for the late game

Burn en remouvel:
- smother: mostly for goyf but a great card against most creatures.
- fire//ice: most usefull card in the deck i think.
- damnation: nuf said.

Disruption
- extirpate: for the combo matchup and to get rid of oposing treats.

Draw:
- CoW: wastelock, great against LD, Kill with ring and recuring fetch.
- standstill: to good not to play here
- brainstorm: auto include
- //ice: minor draw (and also great against goyf)
- burning wish: gets kills, disruption and remouvel from side

Side

Wishboard

3x Pyroclasm: goblins / ETW
1x Damnation: goblins / agro
1x Haunting Echoes: kill
1x Demonfire: kill
1x Cranial Extraction: combo
1x Shattering Spree
1x chainers edict.: goyf

other side

in my meta i play this
3x teferi's repsons: LD
3x dures: combo

Matchups:

Combo: good --> lots of counters, extirpate and wish targets.
***** : white: good / Red: bad because of the goyf and burn but i havent tested my new version yet .
LD : seems very bad but most of the time its a good matchup.
stax : not good but it depends on there opening hand.
goblins: if you servive turn 4 you win.

I only played 2 tournaments with it (26 players and 35 players) and it got top 8 on both.

Im not sure about the fact or fictions but i need to test them.
If i dont like them i will play 1 abyss and 1 daze instead.

NEW PRIMER ON PAGE 2

[Joon]

Looks ok. But always when I tried to put Daze in a Landstill variant it just sucked because you miss one land drop. What were your testing results with Daze in this version?

[nightbringer]

Its anoiying but missing the landdrop can be the lesser of 2 evils and that's the main resons i play it.
what counters do you play?

[Joon]

In Ur Landstill Force of will (Obv.) and 4 Disrupting Shoal so that you can tap you out for more pressure with the manlands. In Uwg/b I play Mana Leak and of course Force of Will. What were your testing results with 2 wastelands (I played 3-4 or nothing at all) and 2 Crucible?

[nightbringer]

I get them a fair amount of times early game or a bit later with some help from al the card draw.
So im quite happy with them.
I used to play 3 waste but i ran into some mana problems in a lot of games, i got the idea from a friend that plays stax, there i saw that 2 can more then enough.

[thefreakaccident]

in most landstill varients (I really like your by the way), the counterbase is usually
4 FoW
4 CS
3 stifle

it works pretty good that way.

I am huge on playing control decks, as everyone at my local tournies curse me for... I may bring this to the tourney soon, seeing as I have everything except the burning wishes.

[nightbringer]

thx, i will be doing some testing with the new list on thursday.
i will try and optimise the counterbase.
What would you cut to make room for this? the only thing i can see to make room are the FoF and the daze's.

i love the idea of stifle in this deck but i never try'd it.


I may bring this to the tourney soon, seeing as I have everything except the burning wishes.

Good luck with the deck if you take it to a tournament, its lots of fun to play but like most control decks its not very easy (one of the reasons i like it).
if you go to a tournament plz post your findings and i small report if you have time (i would appreciate it)

[thefreakaccident]

yeah, you might want to drop the dazes for the stifle... stifle works even better than daze against combo (which is why I suppose you want a free counter), and it can attack manabases and sac permanents.

stifle doesn't become dead at any poin in the game, unlike daze which kinda looses potency after turn 3-4.

If I were making the deck, I think I would make it look like...

lands//24
3 polluted delta
2 bloodstained mire
4 volcanic island
4 underground sea
4 mishra's factory
2 wasteland
1 barbarian ring
2 island
1 swamp
1 mountain

spells//36
4 force of will
4 counterspell
2 stifle
4 standstill
4 brainstorm
2 fact or fiction
3 burning wish
2 crucible of worlds
3 fire/ice
2 damnation
3 smother
3 extripate

sideboard//
keep same


I think the manabase would need a slight overhaul, seeing as you always want to be able to get to UU by turn 3... I don't think the tomb is that necessary seeing as the deck has 5 fetches and 5 producents (plus crucible recursion)... the extra land helps with consistancy. You want 3-4 FoFs because they are the only thing that wins games against control (except for standstill against certain control archtypes).

I love the wishable wincons, they are tech... besides that the deck looks really good, good luck with it and I will put up a report if I decide to play wth this at a tourney.

[nightbringer]

Only problem is that there are 39 cards main instead of 36
How good is fact or fiction in landstill?

I was thing of changing the tomb in a island and perhaps one badland in a underground sea.
the dazes are gone for at least 2 stifle.
maby i will drop the FoF for a stifle and a counterspell but ill have to see how the testing turns out.

lots of people have been saying that the decks hase to little win conditions but somehow i never have problems with that.
what do you guys think?

Thx for the tips btw.

[thefreakaccident]

with wishable wish targets and 5 MD kill cons that are recurrable, I don't think it will be an issue... just watch out for opposing etripates, and you'll be just fine.

[nightbringer]

This is the new list i made using the tips i got an varius forums.

spells
2x fact or fiction
4x Brainstorm
3x smother
3x Extirpate
3x Fire//Ice
3x Burning Wish
4x Counterspell
2x stifle
3x Damnation
4x Standstill
4x Force of Will
2x Crucible of Worlds

land:

3x Polluted Delta
3x Mishra's Factory
2x Bloodstained Mire
2x Volcanic Island
2x Wasteland
1x Barbarian Ring
1x githu encampment
1x fairy conclaive
2x Underground Sea
2x Badlands
1x swamp
2x island
1x Mountain

Sideboard:
3x Pyroclasm
3x teferi's repsons
3x dures
1x Haunting Echoes
1x Demonfire
1x Cranial Extraction
1x Shattering Spree
1x chainers edict.
1x damnation

im not sure i like the conclave and the encampment because they wome in to play tapped.

the only answer i see to opposing extirpates is counterbalance/top but to play that i have to drop the counterspells.

[outsideangel]

Goblin Lackey beats you, and you can't answer Vial either. Lightning Bolt for Fire//Ice and making room for Engineered Explosives should shore that up, along with some other weaknesses. Also a draw spell in the SB would be helpful, but I'm not sure what you'd want to run.

[thefreakaccident]

I don't know what you are talking about... this deck kills any few key goblins that see play (or god forbid counter them), and the extripate them... then he has a wish board with 2 sweepers open.

If they get their lightning fast start and go for the 3rd turn win, then all he has to do is kill a creature/counter something... the MU isn't that bad, whenever I played landstill against goblins I won (and I am not that much of a landstill player anymore).

with 3 pyroclasm coming in from the board, it would be really hard to beat this deck if you are playing gobbies.

[nightbringer]

Like i said in the primer, goblins isn't a great matchup but if you survive turn 4then you should win.
The main problem with goblins isn't the lackey but the wastes and ports they play.

EE would be nice in this deck but just dont have the room to play them for the moment.

[nightbringer]

This is the new version of the deck i am testing.

I got top 8 on every tournament i played with the old version and i think this new version is a great improvement.

Im not sure if i should post it here or in the landstill tread so i will post it here just to be save.

Please let me know what you think.

spells
4x Brainstorm
2x Spelsnare / stifle
3x Smother
3x Extirpate
3x Fire//Ice
3x Burning Wish
4x Counterspell
4x Pernicious Deed
4x Standstill
4x Force of Will
2x Crucible of Worlds


land:

4x Polluted Delta
1x Bloodstained Mire
2x Wasteland
1x Barbarian Ring
3x Underground Sea
3x Tropial Island
3x Volcanic Island
2x Fairy conclave
4x Mishra's Factory
1x island


Sideboard:
1x call of the herd
1x Hull breach
1x duress
1x Damnation
1x Haunting Echoes
1x Demonfire
1x Cranial Extraction
1x Shattering Spree
4x Leyline of the Void
3x Pyroclasm

There are no real bad match-ups for this deck but landstill is the a problem sometimes.
I now play green for deed and some wish targets and im still not sure what to do with the slots that are used for stifle for the moment.

Its still a great deck to play and its real strong.

[monkeyfeelers]

Not that this is usually a problem anymore but if your meta still has heavy gobs this deck seems like the looser. I have seen land still vs goblins many times and landstill always rolls over. You have no answer for their vials and mana denial(this is why gobs are good). Even tweaked hate lists loose to a good gobo player. Either they just blow you out with mana denial + beat down or they play the waiting game and bam blow you out in one turn with the pseudo combo finish.
However if your meta is thresh heavy this seems like just the deck to play. Thresh can't deal with decks who have a better late game than them and since they are playing the efficiency game and you have the raw power if you stem the bleeding long enough you'll crush them.
Playing stifle when you have only two wastelands seems like a sad mana denial package. I would either go with 6-8 mana denial options or cut the stifles for spell snare cause its the champ against just about everyone.I would probably make room for at least three of these main.
Lastly, extirpate is bad. I hate to say it but robbing your opponent of resources they have already used is not like winning. Its much more like waisting cards. Sure maybe its good as a sideboard option because it is good against decks that need that one special spell to win. These decks however are scarce now for reasons other than extirpate. I would run some other sort of disruption here, preferably an offensive one that you can play before your opponent is already winning.

[thefreakaccident]

extirpate makes landstill a champ.... it can take away a recurring loam (which is landstill's worst MU by far), it can take a sqee away from a survival deck (this isn't a bad play... trust me), it can make sure that ringleader never gets cast again... not to mention it is good against Aluren and Ceph. Breakfast... I would argue that this is the perfect time to bust out the extirpate tech.

[nightbringer]

Not that this is usually a problem anymore but if your meta still has heavy gobs this deck seems like the looser. I have seen land still vs goblins many times and landstill always rolls over. You have no answer for their vials and mana denial(this is why gobs are good). Even tweaked hate lists loose to a good gobo player. Either they just blow you out with mana denial + beat down or they play the waiting game and bam blow you out in one turn with the pseudo combo finish.

My old version could beat goblins pre-side about 40/60 and post-side about 70/30 and this version should still be good enough i think.
I played against them many times and i did ok most of the time.
but u are right that it isnt my best matchup.


Playing stifle when you have only two wastelands seems like a sad mana denial package. I would either go with 6-8 mana denial options or cut the stifles for spell snare cause its the champ against just about everyone.I would probably make room for at least three of these main.

I agree and at the moment i am testing the snares in my deck.
I found that playing 2 snares is beter than 2 stifles also.
I dont think i have the room to play 3 waste and 3 stifle in this deck, what do you think?


Lastly, extirpate is bad. I hate to say it but robbing your opponent of resources they have already used is not like winning. Its much more like waisting cards. Sure maybe its good as a sideboard option because it is good against decks that need that one special spell to win. These decks however are scarce now for reasons other than extirpate. I would run some other sort of disruption here, preferably an offensive one that you can play before your opponent is already winning.

I know a lot of people are against extirpate main but i just love this card.
Its like thefreakaccident said, extirpate makes landstill a champ.
I cant begin to tell you how mutch games i have won because of extirpate.

I can counter or kill almost everything my opponent plays the first time and extirpate makes sure i dont have to do it a second time.

Thanks for your imput by the way.
You should give this deck a try and see how it playes.
(Im sorry about my crappy english by the way)

[monkeyfeelers]

extirpate makes landstill a champ.... it can take away a recurring loam (which is landstill's worst MU by far), it can take a sqee away from a survival deck (this isn't a bad play... trust me), it can make sure that ringleader never gets cast again... not to mention it is good against Aluren and Ceph. Breakfast... I would argue that this is the perfect time to bust out the extirpate tech.
Seems to me like the perfect argument for extirpate -> sideboard. Its good against loam, sure it is, i play loam all the time and I hate when that card comes in, except of course for the 4 chalice main. However I'm not sold on the rest of your examples. Isn't for instance pithing needle just fine against Ceph. and survival not to mention having a target in every good deck out there. And why would you want it against Aluren? I'm fairly sure that your counter magic and drawing potential give you the edge in this MU anyways(I havn't seen Aluren played in a while so if someone has played this recently please share and if you used extirpate please elaborate.)
I still think that more aggressive disruption would fill this slot better.
-Also if goblin ringleader has resolved then gobs is already winning while your waisting cards on their yard, unless you hit some out of their hand as well it still seems like sitting back and letting them thrash you.

[monkeyfeelers]

I agree and at the moment i am testing the snares in my deck.
I found that playing 2 snares is beter than 2 stifles also.
I dont think i have the room to play 3 waste and 3 stifle in this deck, what do you think?


Well if you are going to play mana denial you need to go all in or not at all. With goblins disappearing from meta everywhere it seems to me like the right meta may permit denial to champ it up again. Also your mana denial is one reason, but not the only reason, that you crush thresh. If your meta is thresh heavy you may want to run it just to auto win against them.
Otherwise I'm sold on the spell snares they are better in almost every MU and are never dead.

[nightbringer]

Yeah im going with the snares then i think.
Maby i will change it to the mana denial package when the meta changes but for now this seems like the best option.

[thefreakaccident]

you could quite easily make a direct port from Bel's landstill to this, with just a simple color adjustment...

lands//25
4 wasteland
4 mishra's factory
4 faerie conclave
4 polluted delta
1 island
4 underground sea
4 volcanic island

artifacts//5
3 disk
2 CoW

spells//29
4 force of will
4 counterspell
4 standstill
3 fact or fiction
3 burning wish
3 fire/ice
3 lightning bolt
3 smother/ghastly demise/diabolic edict
3 stifle

sideboard//
1 damnation
1 haunting echoes
1 shattering spree
3 duress
4 leyline of the void
1 cranial extraction
1 demonfire
4 pyroclasm

[nightbringer]

Its been a while but i thought i should post the latest version of the deck.
There have been a lot of changes over the past months because of the metashift.
The changes i have made where to adept to goyf/bloodmoon/counterbalance/Ichorid.

So here is my new list there are 61 cards in this list because im testing loam and crucible so don't shoot be because of it.
I intend to change it back to 60 after testing.

4x Brainstorm
3x Smother
2x Extirpate
3x Burning Wish
4x Counterspell
4x Pernicious Deed
4x Standstill
4x Force of Will
1x Life from the loam
1x Crucible of worlds
1x Tombstalker
2x Garruk wildspeaker
2x Shriekmaw
3x Tarmagoyf

land:

3x Polluted Delta
1x Flooded strand
1x wooded foothills
1x Wasteland
1x Tolaria west
1x Forest
3x Underground Sea
4x Tropical Island
2x Volcanic Island
1x Volrath's stronghold
4x Mishra's Factory
1x bayou

Sideboard:
1x call of the herd
1x Hull breach
1x Pyroclasm
1x Damnation
1x Haunting Echoes
1x Rude Awakening
1x Cranial Extraction
1x Shattering Spree
1x life from the loam
3x tormods crypt
3x toughtseize

I added green for deed in the first place but over the last months it became one of my primary colours
There is still some work on this list because there are lots of test lots im trying now.

Here's a new primer, ill try to use my best English.

Main

Draw
4x Brainstorm --> obvious
3x Burning Wish (yes i call this draw) --> I just love this card. I used to play a lot more red in the deck but that became kinda useless with goyf in the meta so this is what is left of it. Still I love the card so much because its so versatile it is worth the splash, gets kills and solutions from side
4x Standstill --> obvious

Removal
2x Extirpate --> used to play 3 but i had to make room, its still one of the best cards in the deck and I would like to get one more on the side
4x Pernicious Deed --> answer against everything my deck had problems with in the new meta.
2x Shriekmaw --> return with the stronghold, kills most critters in the game and its an evasive kill
3x Smother--> kills goyf and most other critters in the game.

Counters
4x Counterspell--> Obvious
4x Force of Will--> Obvious

Non land/non wish Kills
1x Tombstalker--> nice with loam and just a good addition to the deck
2x Garruk wildspeaker--> great under standstill and you can do some great tricks with him
3x Tarmagoyf--> I play green :wink:,No just kidding, I really like him and it gives me an edge in my hard matchups.

Utility
1x Life from the loam--> Testing instead of a second crucible, great with the TW and tombstalker
1x Crucible of worlds--> Waste lock, recurring manland, etc

Mana

Fetch
3x Polluted Delta --> obvious
1x Flooded strand --> obvious
1x wooded foothills --> can fetch almost al my duals and my basic forest

Duals
3x Underground Sea
4x Tropical Island
2x Volcanic Island
1x bayou

Others
1x Wasteland --> to fetch with my TW and lock with crucible
1x Tolaria west--> can fetch my basic forest, wasteland, stronghold, mishra and post side my crypts
1x Forest --> because of the moon decks, if i have my green i can wish for solutions.
1x Volrath's stronghold --> recurs my kills, this one shines here
4x Mishra's Factory --> kill

Wishboard

Kill
1x call of the herd --> i love this card, elephants are tech :smile:
1x Haunting Echoes --> not to happy with this card, i had some bat experience with it on the Belgian champs
1x Rude Awakening-->just a funny kill (yeah i play cards just because there fun , so sew me)

Utility
1x Hull breach--> kills enchantments, artefacts what more can i ask.
1x Pyroclasm--> For goblins, zombies and random small critters
1x Damnation--> comes in handy against a lot of decks
1x Cranial Extraction--> I know lots of people don’t like this card but it has saved my ass on more then one occasion.
1x Shattering Spree--> obvious
1x life from the loam--> obvious

I’m still working on the side but i would like to get a extra extirpate in it.

Matchups

Ichorid combo: 30/70 Against a good player this is a bad matchup.
Gets a bit better after side but it requires a lot of skill from the landstill player.

Belcher/TES:70/30 Good matchup because u have lots of answers against it but you have to know opposing deck a bit.

Goblins: 60/40: Not to bad but it depends on the version and the pilot

Treshhold: 40/60 with counterbalance 70/30 without Depends on the version but its about even to favourable. Version with counterbalance are hard but not at all unwinnable.

Loam: 70/30 Good matchup because you have lots and lots of answers. against the red versions its best to get rid of the loam or the burning wishes ASAP. Removing leyline from the side hurts it a bit.

Dragon stompy: 60/40 If you can keep the bloodmoon of the table your in the clear. Never had to many problems against this deck because magus is not to bad for me. (the enchantment is the worst)

With the previous versions of this deck i hade some top 8 results at 30+ tournaments in Belgium.

There I hope you like it
I did not post this primer in the landstill treat because it plays rather different then landstill and I think I can get more feedback here.