[Deck] Modern Rifter [Archive]

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Tacosnape

08-29-2007, 04:50 PM

If the thread still exists for this, I can't find it. So anyway, it's time to resurrect Rifter. This has become my latest project.

"Rifter?!" you say. "But isn't Goblins on the downswing and combo and Tarmogoyf decks on the rise?"

You're correct. However, combo has strangely gotten better for rifter with Storm Combo less popular and the world filled with more Kid Ichorid and Cephalid Breffix, and with Storm Combo now having gone towards using Empty the Warrens, which Rifter can deal with.

"So what about Tarmogoyf? Don't we need them to print an answer to that? STP isn't enough."

Turns out a secondary answer's already been printed. Radiant's Judgement.

So without further delay, here's our modern list.

Modern Rifter:

9 Plains
6 Mountain
1 Plateau
4 Secluded Steppe
4 Forgotten Cave

4 Lightning Rift
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Humility
2 Disenchant
2 Pyroclasm
1 Tormod's Crypt

3 Renewed Faith
3 Slice and Dice
2 Akroma's Vengeance
2 Rune of Protection: Red
4 Eternal Dragon
3 Radiant's Judgement
3 Decree of Justice

SB:
4 Abeyance
4 Blood Moon
3 Tormod's Crypt
2 Pyroclasm
2 Disenchant

Card Choices!

The Manabase: 24 feels like enough with 4 Eternal Dragons. The deck is fairly Wasteland resilient. The single Plateau is there so Eternal Dragon can fetch Red if it needs to, and all of your nonbasics function under Blood Moon, your sideboard tech.

Kills: Lightning Rift should be a 4-of, as this deck runs a whopping 28 cycling cards, 4 of which recur themselves. Eternal Dragon is a 4-of due to manabase fixing, and three Decrees gives you some solid midgame power.

Non-Cyclers: 4 Swords to Plowshares because it's the best removal spell in White, is our top answer to Goyfs, Combo creatures, and stuff we just can't deal with. The lone Tormod's Crypt could be a fourth Humility if you want it to be, but multiple Humilities are generally useless unless facing decks like Threshold, which tend to not let the first one resolve. The lone Crypt is randomly nice against a ton of decks. The Pyroclasms and Disenchants are a 2/2 split maindeck and a 2/2 split sideboard, though this could be shifted based on your metagame.

Cyclers: Renewed Faith buys you time to develop against aggro early on and has always proven solid. Slice and Dice is limited to 3 as it won't always help you. 2 Vengeances and 2 Runes proved sufficient in old Rifter, and I don't see anything that's changed to alter this. Radiant's Judgement takes out Tarmogoyf, as well as any other fatties that sneak their way around, and cycles inexpensively if not needed.

Sideboard:
Abeyance is a bomb against both Combo and Blue-Based Control. Blood Moon is a house against Threshold, Landstill, and about 500 other decks. Crypt will help you against a lot of modern combo decks. The other two Pyroclasms and Disenchants round it out.

What's Missing:
Red Elemental Blast and Pyroblast didn't make the cut because as far as resolving my own spells, Abeyance does the trick. They're not nearly as useful against Cephalid Breakfast as you'd think, either, due to Aether Vial, though it's possible with sufficient Disenchants that it might be worthwhile.

Pulse of the Fields didn't make it because, well, Renewed Faith and Rune of Protection: Red mostly do the trick.

Boil is gone because Solidarity waned, and Blood Moon's more versatile.

Sacred Ground is gone due to very few people playing Armageddon anymore or having any sort of anti manabase tech for Rifter (I once lost a match playing Rifter to Stench of Evil, for God's sake.) It could easily come back if this catches on, though, or if either Stax or UGW Thresh with Geddons in board are heavily prevalent in your metagame. I would cut a Crypt and a Pyroclasm for them if you want them.

Without going into extensive matchup details, I'll give you the highlights of what I know so far. This deck runs over Goblins, hangs surprisingly well with Threshold (My guess is that it's either even or slightly unfavorable), is decently strong in most control mirrors, is fantastic against Survival variants not packing a noncreature enchantment removal spell, and doesn't capitulate completely to most combo decks. (TES with Tendrils is still very hard, though.)

Happy resurrecting.

-Taco

Brehn

08-29-2007, 05:18 PM

http://mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3141 :tongue:

Nice to see this again... now Radiant's Judgment is sweet tech. But seriously: 3 of them plus 2 Disenchant (play Scrap at least!) and 1 Tormod's Crypt main -- this list seems to be especially tweaked for a metagame full of Breakfast/Goyf.dec. Wonder why you would play Rifter in such a meta anyway... but that's just me. (Storm) Combo doesn't only consist of EtW, so I fear the lack of Orim's Chant in the side. I don't know what to cut though, so this should be a question of the meta. I <3 Blood Moon in this list.

My changes would be:
MB:
-2 Disenchant
-2 Pyroclasm (useless too ofte IMO)
-1 Tormod's Crypt
+2 Scrap
+3 Wrath of God (you need some mass sweepers besides Vengeance. Also kills Goyfs)

SB:
-1 Abeyance
-2 Disenchant
+3 Orim's Chant

Phantom

08-29-2007, 05:31 PM

For those of you who couldn't find the card he's talking about (like me) it's spelled Radiant's Judgment.

I'm not sure how I feel about the deck yet. Doesn't Landstill (especially with deed) crush it? I always wanted to work some manlands into Rifter as a secondary plan. Is the yard hate sufficient? I wish Morningtide were an instant...with split second. Anyway, I'll take a further look later.

Sanguine Voyeur

08-29-2007, 05:52 PM

That's Rifter? I had been toying with an uncannily similar concept. It had a few Enlighted Tutor targets, mainly Humility, and used sweepers, Slice and Dice, to clear the board.

Before anyone else steals my secret ideas; Standstill in Astral Slide/Lightning Rift based decks.

08-29-2007, 05:53 PM

Kid Ichorid

Stop trying to make "fetch" happen! It's never going to happen!

Seriously, stop calling the deck that.

Anyway, despite a current decrease in storm combo, it's ridiculous to ignore it to the degree you've done so. Having only Abeyance won't do jack against them considering Tendrils runs Duress. Why is there no Pyrostatic Pillar to go along with it?

Bane of the Living

08-29-2007, 06:00 PM

Theres no point in playing Tormods Crypt. Ichorid will regroup and kill you far before you end their life and Ceph Breakfast will just Abeyance you. Since you dont run counterspells thats the end there.

I doubt this deck can still be a contender but I appreciate your efforts. Seriously has nothing been printed to help this archetype?

Phantom

08-29-2007, 07:59 PM

Stop trying to make "fetch" happen! It's never going to happen!

Seriously, stop calling the deck that.

Anyway, despite a current decrease in storm combo, it's ridiculous to ignore it to the degree you've done so. Having only Abeyance won't do jack against them considering Tendrils runs Duress. Why is there no Pyrostatic Pillar to go along with it?

First, I'd love to be able to mock you for quoting Mean Girls but I cannot. I've seen it at least 5 times, and only 4 of them with a girl...

Anyway, your second point is always the reason I wanted to squeeze in Enlightened Tutor. Postboard I think the deck might have a good shot with something like 4 Abeyance, 4 Chant, and fetch-able Crypts, Chalices, Rule of Law, Null Rod, Blood Moon, Explosives, Needles, etc. I never really got a list to start working though.

MattH

08-29-2007, 08:02 PM

I find it very hard to believe that Rune of Protection is still correct maindeck.

zulander

08-29-2007, 08:27 PM

My question is why isn't there more of a man plan via exalted angels and mealstorm djinns? BEAT DOWN JOR FACE AND WEEN.

SpatulaOfTheAges

08-29-2007, 08:51 PM

Why no Wing Shards?

Jak

08-29-2007, 09:24 PM

Wouldn't Wombat with a splash for red, just for clasm and rift be better. IMO Wombat is superior.

Jaynel

08-29-2007, 09:43 PM

I feel that Rune of Protection: Green would probably help more in today's meta than Rune of Protection: Red, with all the Tarmogoyfs and threshed Mongeese running around. Goblins is waning and that fat green guy is making his way into every aggro deck.

Bovinious

08-29-2007, 10:24 PM

Stop trying to make "fetch" happen! It's never going to happen!

Seriously, stop calling the deck that.

OMFG THANK YOU FOR SAYING THAT, I HAVE NEVER LOVDED U MORE THAN I DO RIGHT NOW.

On topic though, the MD Crypt, Pyroclasms, and Disenchants seem out of place, you could go for Scrap/Clear if you want cycling options, or maybe a few Starstorms also.

barron

08-30-2007, 02:21 AM

wow taconsnape. I just got back from a long conversation about why I should bring rifter to the next tournament (which i am no longer able to go to). You hit the nail on the head. The combo decks that are big now are ones that rifter can deal with, unlike solidarity, and it always had a great game against thresh.

Tacosnape

08-30-2007, 03:07 AM

I'm not sure how I feel about the deck yet. Doesn't Landstill (especially with deed) crush it? I always wanted to work some manlands into Rifter as a secondary plan. Is the yard hate sufficient? I wish Morningtide were an instant...with split second. Anyway, I'll take a further look later.

The Deed/Standstill combination can be problematic. You do have an entire deck that operates under the Standstill, however, so if you can't make your opponent break it, you can at least sculpt a strong, optimal hand, and then crack it during your opponent's end step so they have to discard back down to seven.

The yard hate probably isn't sufficient, but it's better than nothing. The Crypts, as I've stated 100 times in the past, may not stop Ichorid (Happy, Di?), but it does slow them down, and with all the cycling you have, it's not uncommon to manage to hit a pair of them in the early game. Slice and Dice also slows down Ichorid, and if you can stall until the Humility, Humility is an enormous help. Blood Moon will help ensure your opponent can't cast Ray of Revelation, should you decide it's worth the slots.

I feel that Rune of Protection: Green would probably help more in today's meta than Rune of Protection: Red, with all the Tarmogoyfs and threshed Mongeese running around. Goblins is waning and that fat green guy is making his way into every aggro deck.

Rune of Protection: Green is garbage. Other than Tarmogoyf, what exactly do you fear damage from that's Green that you can't get rid of?

Rune Red, as MattH pointed out, might not be correct anymore. It's solid against a lot of decks packing a large array of burn spells for additional reach, and it cycles. It could be cut for some larger foray into the Combo Hate department, however. Pulse of the Fields might be the more versatile option, or Renewed Faith could simply take over the job.

Anyway, despite a current decrease in storm combo, it's ridiculous to ignore it to the degree you've done so. Having only Abeyance won't do jack against them considering Tendrils runs Duress. Why is there no Pyrostatic Pillar to go along with it?

Why is it ridiculous? Rifter didn't have a good storm combo match when it had the entire sideboard dedicated to dealing with it, so why waste the slots on a lost cause when I can just shore up other problems? Call it the Glass Cannon approach, to overuse a term.

Pyrostatic would be an interesting choice for all-around goodness if Rifter had any other sort of clock to back it up. The problem is that for the most part, a deck can just play through Pyrostatic Pillar and not have to worry about dropping down to 2.

Anyway, I'm pretty surprised at all the people posting at this. The deck has a lot of work to go still.

Ninj4

08-30-2007, 03:14 AM

I'm pretty sure that MD Pulse of the Fields is a good idea -

against goblins its subpar but we win against goblins anyway so thats moot. Against thresh, it's a must counter otherwise they'd never be able to beat us down far enough or fast enough before we get the advantage via rifter, humility, and dropping one land a turn until they can't stop a giant decree. its the same with most aggro decks, once you start gaining 4, then 8 life a turn it gets really hard for them to win before you get control of the board.

Also, I highly advocate Lightning Helix in addition to everything else. I'm still not sure why the above list doesn't have it. it makes aggro a lot easier and pulls surprise wins against combo for when they attempt to tendrils.

Joon

08-30-2007, 09:03 AM

Rifter's cool.

Got to say that before starting to talk :smile:

First one, I'd like to hear what you guys think about Enlightened Tutor. Seems at least pretty cool. Would also allow to play maindeck 1 Rune oP: Red and green or black if you want to. Seal of Cleansing could be cool, too.

Another suggestion: If you play without Tutor, whats about Chalice of the Void? Just for combo-hate or is it usefull against ***** (without the posibility to drop it Turn one and often you don't want to play it at 2)?

Actually, this is my current list:

9 Plains
6 Mountains
1 Plateau (Blood Moon <3)
8 Cyclelands

4 Eternal Dragon

4 Rift
4 Humility
2 Rune oP: Red

4 Lightning Helix
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Renewed Faith
3 Radiant's Judgement (Goyf Killer outside the reach of COunterbalance ftw)

3 Decree of Justice
3 Slice and Dice
2 Akroma's Vengeance

SB:

4 Abeyance
4 Orim's Chant
4 Blood Moon (teh Hooser <3)
3 Disenchant

My Meta contains an high amount of (random)-aggro, sometimes here a belcher or there, 1 Survival and sometimes 1-2 more Decks with Deed. The Deed decks seem to be a bad Matchup but you can completely destroy the Aggro-Things and sometimes win luckily against Belcher. Funny I guess.

Comments?

MasterC

09-29-2007, 06:50 AM

After testing around with this deck for a while, I came up with the idea of building a Toolbox Rifter.

First of all the List:

4 Secluded Steppe
4 Forgotten Cave
3 Plateau
6 Mountain
8 Plains

3 Decree of Justice
2 Pyroclasm
3 Slice and Dice
2 Akroma's Vengeance

3 Humility
3 Lightning Rift
1 Moat
1 Rune of Protection: Red

4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Enlightened Tutor
3 Abeyance
3 Radiant's Judgment

4 Eternal Dragon

SB:
3 Aura of Silence
3 Chalice of the Void
1 Pithing Needle
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Null Rod
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Blood Moon
1 Sacred Ground
1 Warmth

The meta in which I intend to play the Deck is a big (~70 Players) german Legacy Tornament. Noticeable is the Lack of Combo Decks and especially the Lack of good Combo Players (proven by several Rogue Aggro Decks making T8, like Elves without Disenchant Effects (!), Dryad Sligh or The Rock)

Unusual Choices:
Abeyance Maindeck: As Random Combo Hoser Game 1; it also enables us to resolve essential Spells through a Counterwall

Radiant's Judgment instead of Renewed Faith: Kills Tarmogoyf, Hierarch and other Fatties, cycles for colorless Mana

Moat: G1 Moat is an Instant win against many Decks

Enlightened Tutor, Toolbox: Gives us Versatility at the cost of Card Disadvantage. The Question is: What is more important: Card advantage or Versatility?

Further suggestions for Toolbox targets are welcome.
I'm very interested in your opinion.

troopatroop

09-29-2007, 02:19 PM

outsideangel

09-29-2007, 02:40 PM

Soto

10-01-2007, 09:37 AM

I'm sure you guys have thought about it, but what about gilded light for the combo matchup?

Taurelin

10-01-2007, 02:18 PM

Tacosnape

10-01-2007, 03:09 PM

Which combo matchups do you have in mind?

TES? Sure Gilded Light stops 20 1/1 tokens.
Belcher? It buys you a round. Cool.
Ichorid? Similar to TES.
Cephalid Breakfast? Only protects you from Cabal Therapy -> StoP, but will you have enough mana by then?

Gilded Light is only useful vs. Storm based decks (Iggy Pop: Tendrils, Solidarity: Brain Freeze). Especially the 2nd one is on the decline, however. And be sure, by turn 17, Rifts fundamental killing turn, Solidarity will have found its FoWs.

While I'm not sure I support Gilded Light, this is misleading and inaccurate.

Against The Epic Storm, you don't need it to stop ETW Tokens. Slice and Dice and Pyroclasm do that. You need it to stop Tendrils of Agony. TES does run that, you know. And if they have any inkling that you're playing Rifter, they're going to take the extra turn or two to hunt it up.

Against Belcher, it can buy you a lot more than a round. Often Belcher is activated with mana that cannot be easily produced again the next turn. In the case of a Lion's Eye Diamond, you may buy as many as three or four turns consistently with the occasional six. However, even in the worst case where you only buy one turn, that's all the turns you need to Disenchant the Goblin Charbelcher.

Against Cephalid Breakfast, not only will it protect you from Cabal Therapy, it also protects you from Abeyance. This ensures that any Tormod's Crypts you've got sitting on the board will either get an opportunity to wreak a little havoc or help stall until you can get a Humility down.

Ichorid isn't helped any by Gilded Light, admittedly, but it's winnable with some luck. And Solidarity will admittedly never be a match with much hope for Rifter, no matter how many Abeyances and Gilded Lights you throw, but Solidarity's a ghost right now.

Soto

10-01-2007, 08:21 PM

So would a current list look like the one in your first post?

Joon

11-07-2007, 02:45 PM

I reanimated this thread as I recognised that this deck rapes my meta...

Actual list:

// Deck file for Magic Workstation (http://www.magicworkstation.com)

// Lands
4 [ON] Secluded Steppe
4 [ON] Forgotten Cave
1 [U] Plateau
6 [6E] Mountain (1)
9 [OD] Plains (4)

// Creatures
4 [SC] Eternal Dragon

// Spells
4 [TE] Humility
4 [ON] Lightning Rift
4 [R] Swords to Plowshares
3 [SC] Decree of Justice
2 [ON] Akroma's Vengeance
4 [ON] Slice and Dice
1 [MR] Isochron Scepter
1 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
3 [MI] Enlightened Tutor
2 [8E] Wrath of God
4 [WL] Abeyance

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [US] Rune of Protection: Red
SB: 4 [PS] Orim's Chant
SB: 1 [8E] Blood Moon
SB: 4 [MR] Chalice of the Void
SB: 2 [NE] Seal of Cleansing
SB: 1 [US] Rune of Protection: Green
SB: 2 [7E] Boil

I'm unsure about the Enlightened Tutor in this deck - is he really worth it? And in addition to that I'd like to hear what you think about Austere Command:

4WW (6), Sorcery
Choose two - Destroy all artifacts; or destroy all enchantments; or destroy all creatures with converted mana cost 3 or less; or destroy all creatures with converted mana cost 4 or greater.

Seems like a better Vengeance to me as it is just more flexible. Here's my list without Enlighteneds btw:

// Deck file for Magic Workstation (http://www.magicworkstation.com)

// Lands
4 [ON] Secluded Steppe
4 [ON] Forgotten Cave
1 [U] Plateau
6 [6E] Mountain (1)
9 [OD] Plains (4)

// Creatures
4 [SC] Eternal Dragon

// Spells
4 [TE] Humility
4 [ON] Lightning Rift
4 [R] Swords to Plowshares
3 [SC] Decree of Justice
4 [ON] Slice and Dice
4 [WL] Abeyance
2 [LOR] Austere Command
3 [UL] Radiant's Judgment
4 [ON] Renewed Faith

// Sideboard
SB: 4 [PS] Orim's Chant
SB: 4 [8E] Blood Moon
SB: 4 [MR] Chalice of the Void
SB: 3 [NE] Seal of Cleansing

Chalice and B.Moon are...let's say...brutal against some decks (i.e. all these NQG/Baseruption/Fish/Landstill decks).

Elfrago

11-08-2007, 03:31 AM

Vengeance has Cycling, and this makes it more flexible than command.

Joon

11-08-2007, 07:41 AM

Not really, as you can cast the Command when Vengeance would kill stuff from our board and you cycle it instead of playing it.

Elfrago

11-08-2007, 03:01 PM

If I'm in a favorable board position, I will cycle the Vengeance (and usually net a rift activation with it). If I'm in a disadvantageus board position then I will cast it.

Command, does the same job, except it gets stuck in our hand in already favorable situations.

Nihil Credo

11-09-2007, 09:47 AM

So Austere Command is better when you're losing and worse when you're already winning? Sounds like the definition of "better card" to me.

Unless your particular build is short on cycling cards, that is.

Lego

11-09-2007, 11:24 AM

It seems to me that Quinn is just better than this. In the current meta, this beats, what, Threshold? Maybe Goblins, which no one plays anymore?

You're going to straight up lose to Storm Combo and any CRET Belcher you see. Goyf Sligh doesn't seem great for you. Ichorid is nearly an autoloss. Cephalid Breakfast probably 50/50s you... what am I missing that makes you guys think this deck is so good? Just because it does well versus Thresh? I could name a half dozen decks off the top of my head that are better against Thresh.

Pinder

11-09-2007, 01:36 PM

What about...crazy idea here...what about cutting STP and running Chalice of the Void in the maindeck? It's solid against combo and Threshold.

Also quoting Mean Girls makes you pretty gay.

And I like the name Kid Ichorid. That game was bitchin'.

I too think 'Kid Ichorid' is pretty clever. But whatever. If deckname sticks, it sticks, if it doesn't, it doesn't.

I sort of like the idea of running Chalice in the main to shore up combo, but StP really isn't the slot to cut for it, IMO. With all this talk of getting rid of RoP:Red though, could it be a reasonable replacement for that? Of course, Chalice doesn't have cycling, so there's always that to consider.

Also, a thought just popped into my head. What about Ajani? I haven't given him too much thought, but the fact that he works under Humility (yay for not being a creature) could be kind of sexy. He also drops +1/+1 counters on dudes, which stack on top of Humility too. And he gains you 2 life a turn for free, which could help against Aggro. Third ability is sort of useless in this deck, though. I honestly don't know if he'll be any good, but I figured I'd throw it out there.

TheAardvark

11-11-2007, 11:50 AM

First, I'd love to be able to mock you for quoting Mean Girls but I cannot. I've seen it at least 5 times, and only 4 of them with a girl...

The movie is awesome. I even own it. And yes, I am heterosexual. I am married with two children, and enjoy spraying my DNA all over bitches, not guys.

@ Pinder,

Ajani sounds good in theory, but I think almost every card you would cut for him would be better overall. The lifegain is easily the most relevant ability, and the +1/+1 counter ability won't come into play much, methinks; the last ability could be pretty hot at times, but hitting 6 loyalty is an issue in Standard, much less Legacy.

ebbitten

11-17-2007, 06:11 PM

Back on topic

I'm running the current list
// Lands
4 [ON] Secluded Steppe
4 [ON] Forgotten Cave
1 [u] Plateau
6 [6E] Mountain (1)
9 [OD] Plains (4)

// Creatures
4 [SC] Eternal Dragon

// Spells
4 [TE] Humility
4 [ON] Lightning Rift
4 [R] Swords to Plowshares
3 [SC] Decree of Justice
4 [ON] Slice and Dice
4 [WL] Abeyance
2 [LOR] Austere Command
3 [UL] Radiant's Judgment
4 [ON] Renewed Faith

// Sideboard
SB: 4 [PS] Orim's Chant
SB: 4 [8E] Blood Moon
SB: 4 [MR] Chalice of the Void
SB: 3 [NE] Seal of Cleansing

Which was posted a little ways up, it seems pretty sweet although i miss the Rune of protection a bit so i was wondering what if anything i should cut for it?

spirit of the wretch

11-29-2007, 05:04 AM

Necro time!

Yesterday, a friend of mine and me where pondering about the viablity of Rifter in the current Meta. The deck traditionally has a great Aggro-MU, deals well with Control and gets seriously f**cked by Combo.decs.
These facts in mind, we tried to approve the combo-MU without weaking the others. Here's what we came up with:

Lands:
4x Secluded Steppe
4x Forgotten Cave
1x Plateau
6x Mountain
8x Plains

Cycler:
2x Eternal Dragon
2x Decree of Justice
3x Renewed Faith
3x Slice and Dice

Good Stuff:
4x Enlightened Tutor
4x Orim's Chant
4x Swords to Plowshares
3x Wrath of God

"Toolbox":
2x Humility
4x Lightning Rift
3x Engeneered Explosives
2x Blood Moon
1x Isochron Scepter

SB:
1x Sphere of Law
4x Tormod's Crypt
3x Sphere of Resistance
3x Pithing Needle
4x Sacred Ground

This deck is all about flexibility. It's important to have all the answers to different decks maindeck.

Enlightened Tutor, while creating card disadvantage, allows you to play the best silver bullets in the maindeck. Most decks don't have a maindeck out to Scepter/Chant, Humility or Blood Moon, so resolving one of these equals GG.

Orim's Chant is a great MB card. He allows you to resolve the devastating Blood Moon against Grow and Landstill, he creates a hard lock with the Scepter against Goblins and Survival (in fact, every combo.dec and every aggro.dec not packing burn), he fizzles storm combo and he stalls aggro.

I probably don't have to tell you how good the Explosives are. Yes, they are that good! I know they kill your own Rift, but I would play them over crap like Radiant's Judgment any day.

The rest is pretty straight forward. The usual suspects.

That friend of mine is planning to play that deck at the sideevent of GP: Stuttgart.
So do you have any comments, ideas, criticism and/or rants? Feel free to post it :wink:

diffy

11-29-2007, 11:17 AM

Tutor Rifter

Looks solid... I toyed with something like this about a year ago but was never really succesfull with it... you can find the development of my list here (http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=29052.90), on TMD.

As for your list, I'd try to fit in one Moat so that you can tutor for a temporary Wrath if need arises (Explosives don't count because of extreme suckyness against multiple creatures eg Goblins). It also completely locks out a lot of decks when combined with a Humility. I'd sugest cutting a Renewed Faith for it. Never liked that card and it should be even worse now that creatures hit for 4-6 and not for Goblin like shocks.

-1 Wrath of God
+1 Moat

Also, I don't see a reason not to run at least 2 Plateaus... just cut a Mountain for it so that you don't loose a white mana source under Blood Moon.
Also, I don't think that 23 lands are quite enough. I'd at least play 24.

-1 Renewed Faith
+1 Plateau

Also, the deck tends to need more white than red mana in the earlygame.

-1 Mountain
+1 Plains

Also, with all those Tarmogoyfs running around, I can see Rune of Protection: Green being awesome, and it cylces.

-2 Renewed Faith
+2 RoP: Green

In the sideboard, I'd consider cutting some number of those Sacred Grounds and replace them with some better tutor targets for the combo Matchup (Rule of Law, Null Chamber (http://magiccards.info/mr/en/235.html) probably not).

-2 Sacred Ground
+2 Rule of Law

Edit: Something you might want to consider is playing a Snow Land base à la Mighty Quinn (http://mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6188) to make up for that card disadvantage you're creating. I think 2 Scrying Sheets might be enough... but wait, this makes me think why you actually splash red (looks at main and sideboard)... you splash red for Lighting Rift (is only a wincon since it doesn't kill creatures anymore so it can easily be replaced), Slice and Dice (sub par) and Blood Moon (agreed, this is good)... I think you could just stick with a modified version of Quinn/MWC and do better.

spirit of the wretch

11-29-2007, 05:41 PM

Well Clemens, your right with about everything you said. I hate the Faith everytime I see it and in most of the MUs, they are the first thing to be boarded out. Problem is, if you cut down the cyclers, the Rift becomes less useful and then you really have to ask yourself, why you play a second colour. Nevertheless the Runes are probably strictly better than the Faiths.
The Sacred Grounds are really important in the NQG/w MU. I would feel uncomfortable if I only had two outs to the the game-ending Geddon. But maybe 3 are enough.
I don't know if the power of the snow engine substitutes for the loss of Blood Moon. I rate this card really high in the current meta, as it spells instant death to many popular decks. But I'll definitely give it a try.

monkeyfeelers

11-29-2007, 06:46 PM

I have no experience with rifter but was wondering if anyone has tried LfTL. You can use it to get your cycling lands back cycle them, shoot stuff, and dominate at card advantage the way loam decks do.

That being said you would need to move into three colors i would think with since red has rift and white has other good cycling and good stuff like humility. With green you also get access to a bunch more interesting cards like Loxidon Hierarchy(prob win more in the mu's you already win) and good old goyf and a bunch of hockey looking cyclers that should be looked into but probably are not worth much.

Lastly I'm wondering if this deck would be better as an assault/loam deck. You get more efficient 2damage shooting ,the card advantage from loam. You do loose the neat cycle for goodness and 2damage that seems really good but everything else would come online for less mana investment. Seems that the mana base for this sort of deck might be stretched by the need for triple red assault but loam goes a long way to help that.