[New Card] Ponder - A Cantrip Almost As Good As Brainstorm!

[Hummingbird TG]

Well, if you hate the art so much, it wouldn't take much effort to clean off the card art and get a local artist to do a nice alteration...

[Bardo]

Who's Ecstasy rave chick? Is that really the picture for Ponder? Don't we have a hi-res scan of the card yet?

ERC is indeed the gal tripping tits on Serum Visions (http://sales.starcitygames.com/cardscans/MAGPRM/serumvisionsarenafoil.jpg).

As for the Ponder scan. Behold:

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=56754&stc=1&d=1189205507

Apparently, fish breast-feed on Lorwyn. Check out the nipples. How utterly bizarre.

[The Rack]

Lorwyn art looks a little disapointing. It seems they made a cutesy set with all the Kithkins. Eh, not so excited.

[Zilla]

They dont let artists come back around if they arent good.
The artist that did the artwork for Ponder is Mark Tedin. He's been illustrating Magic cards since Alpha. His work has never been very good. Your theory appears to be erroneous.

[Machinus]

i have no taste

http://resources.wizards.com/Magic/Cards/LE/en-us/Card1491.jpg

[Sanguine Voyeur]

All tastes are different, you can't make art that everyone will like.

I, for example, hate the art spewed out by Rebecca Guay. Many, many people love her art.

[kabal]

i have no taste

QFT ... Here is a few more

http://magiccards.info/scans/en/an/9.jpghttp://magiccards.info/scans/en/be/23.jpghttp://magiccards.info/scans/en/7e/311.jpg

http://magiccards.info/scans/en/an/29.jpghttp://magiccards.info/scans/en/be/268.jpghttp://magiccards.info/scans/en/be/276.jpg

[Sanguine Voyeur]

What does everyone think would be better art? I'm thinking of taking a Sharpie to these as soon as I get a play set.
QFT ... Here is a few more

http://sales.starcitygames.com/cardscans/MAGARN/juzam_djinn.jpghttp://sales.starcitygames.com/cardscans/MAGBET/lord_of_the_pit.jpghttp://sales.starcitygames.com/cardscans/MAGBET/winter_orb.jpg

http://sales.starcitygames.com/cardscans/MAGARN/cyclone.jpghttp://sales.starcitygames.com/cardscans/MAGBET/fireball.jpghttp://sales.starcitygames.com/cardscans/MAG7TH/phyrexian_colossus.jpg

http://sales.starcitygames.com/cardscans/MAGSTA/grim_tutor.jpghttp://sales.starcitygames.com/cardscans/MAGBET/nevinyrrals_disk.jpghttp://sales.starcitygames.com/cardscans/MAGBET/time_vault.jpgThat post would have been great with content.

[kabal]

That post would have been great with content.

Pictures speak for themselves.

[Pinder]

I think he was making a reference to the fact that none of the pictures worked the first time.

edit:

http://resources.wizards.com/Magic/Cards/5DN/en-us/Card51613.jpg
http://resources.wizards.com/Magic/Cards/TSP/en-us/Card111057.jpg

[Zilla]

You linked Nev's Disk as an example of fine artwork? Give me a fucking break. Some of Tedin's work is solid, but a good portion of it is dogshit. Ponder is no exception.

As for Mana Drain, just because it's a good card doesn't make it good artwork. The insect larva/brain sucking thing is stupid.

[Sanguine Voyeur]

I think he was making a reference to the fact that none of the pictures worked the first time.I was, they didn't.
You linked Nev's Disk as an example of fine artwork? Give me a fucking break. Some of Tedin's work is solid, but a good portion of it is dogshit. Ponder is no exception.

As for Mana Drain, just because it's a good card doesn't make it good artwork. The insect larva/brain sucking thing is stupid.That happens all the time, people think card quality = art quality. Ergo, Jitte has great art, and Ryusei has terrible art.

[Nihil Credo]

If I were WotC's art director:

- every blue card would be illustrated by Scott Fischer
- every black card would be illustrated by Aleksi Briclot or Greg Staples
- every white card would be illustrated by Justin Sweet
- every red or green card would be illustrated by Matt Cavotta
- every land card would be illustrated by Rob Alexander
- Ron Spencer and Rebecca Guay would be shot, then fed to rats, then those rats would be fed to other, bigger rats.

[Sanguine Voyeur]

I think the "block" after Lorwyn is going to be called Shadowfall. If the art follows it's name, that set is going to be nothing but black and white line work and geometric spirals like found on Orzhov Guildmage. Hopefully it will kick so much ass, it will make up for Lorwyn.
Ron Spencer and Rebecca Guay would be shot, then fed to rats, then those rats would be fed to other, bigger rats.Although I like Crucible of Worlds, I agree. More so on Guay.

[Bardo]

Disk is kind of shit art, it does nothing for me--though I think Tedin is an exceptional MtG artist.

Case in point:
http://sales.starcitygames.com/cardscans/MAGALP/timetwister.jpg
That said, there's pretty much nothing more subjective than taste in art, but I think Ponder is a loser, which is all the more tragic since we're not thrown too many 1 mana draw spells that are tourney playable.

[Sanguine Voyeur]

That said, there's pretty much nothing more subjective than taste in art, but I think Ponder is a loser, which is all the more tragic since we're not thrown too many 1 mana draw spells that are tourney playable.Which is exactly why;
I'm thinking of taking a Sharpie to these as soon as I get a play set.Does any one know how to effectively remove the art without damaging the card?

[Machinus]

It's unrelated to playability. Mana Drain's art is just cool. There are mysterious red jellyfish sucking mana from the earth under the ocean. Awesome!

Tedin also did this amazing piece:

http://resources.wizards.com/Magic/Cards/1E/en-us/Card30.jpg

And Juzam? Amazing.

[Bardo]

It's unrelated to playability. Mana Drain's art is just cool. There are mysterious red jellyfish sucking mana from the earth under the ocean. ...

And Juzam? Amazing.

I like the scale of Juzam--he's a fucking monster, and the classic "fuzzy background" in a lot of Alpha-esque art works there.

Agreed on the Mana Drain art too. I've always envision the critter sucking the mana/energy out of a spell. But whatever, it's a great composition.

[Zilla]

I'll give you Juzam. It's always been a favorite of mine. I'm not on board with the Mana Drain thing, though. And Nev's Disk? Come on. What the fuck is wrong with that guy's pinky?

[zulander]

What's with the see-through shirt the pink chick is wearing in ponder? I thought this was a family game as in bring your family, not create a family.

[zulander]

Does any one know how to effectively remove the art without damaging the card?
Regular cards, no. I've tried nail polish remover but it damages the card. I have heard though if you use a powerful eraser (the kind you buy from art stores for some good coin) they do the trick, however I have not tried this.

Foils, yes. I usually peel off the foil art with my knife VERY CAREFULLY. I now have a foil ancestral recall :D

[DeathwingZERO]

Regular cards, no. I've tried nail polish remover but it damages the card. I have heard though if you use a powerful eraser (the kind you buy from art stores for some good coin) they do the trick, however I have not tried this.

Foils, yes. I usually peel off the foil art with my knife VERY CAREFULLY. I now have a foil ancestral recall :D

A buddy of mine uses the foil tricks for his awesome transparent sticker-paper he uses for proxies. When it's done, it's no thicker than the foil was that you just ripped off, and impossible to tell in sleeves.

As far as regular cards go, a normal #2 pencil eraser works, but takes forever. An art gum eraser would also work, but I'd advocate the solid "white" erasers, as they don't leave marks, and are about 3x as powerful as a regular eraser.

The nail polish remover trick requires doing the same thing as the "swab" test for Power, etc. You just put a little bit on the end of a q-tip, run it across the card (make sure to tape a little extra margin inside your borders), and then wipe it with a paper towel or tissue after about 2-3 seconds. I've done it, and it seems much cleaner, but the eraser trick works really well, and doesn't risk the bleeding this does.

[DragoFireheart]

I think I am gonna beat the dead horse a bit more...

If you want to use Predict as a cantrip/draw source then it is in your favor to run Portent so that you can remove relevent threats from your opponents deck. It's also a great way to piss them off. :laugh:

However if you are not going to use Predict then prehaps Serum Visions or another cantrip would be a better choice, though I tend to prefer Portent as it acts like a Sorcery speed brainstorm with a shuffle effect.

I do wonder if people will continue to use Portent once Ponder comes out.

[Happy Gilmore]

I do wonder if people will continue to use Portent once Ponder comes out.

I have been a fan of Portent for over a year, but I can't justify running it over Ponder. However, for those additional cantrip slots in Thresh I will be using Portent.

[Cait_Sith]

I have been a fan of Portent for over a year, but I can't justify running it over Ponder. However, for those additional cantrip slots in Thresh I will be using Portent.

Its because the fact you get the card immediately lets you chain cantrips for great justice. You cannot resist it... ever.

[DragoFireheart]

Its because the fact you get the card immediately lets you chain cantrips for great justice. You cannot resist it... ever.

mmm... cantrips. I love any kind of cantrip-thing-m-bob, like SDT and Brainstorm for example. I feel like I'm playing a jank deck if I don't have brainstorms or some form of deck control. Hell, I even love Magma Jet in my burn deck for that reason.

But I like to mess with my opponents deck with portent/predict and piss them off. Isn't that more satisfying?

[Cait_Sith]

But I like to mess with my opponents deck with portent/predict and piss them off. Isn't that more satisfying?

Winning pisses them off more because, guess what, they're dead! Not even David Gearheart can respond to that.

[Goaswerfraiejen]

Winning pisses them off more because, guess what, they're dead! Not even David Gearheart can respond to that.

He could prior to 6th Edition. :tongue:

[DragoFireheart]

I would also like to add that I hope the art for Ponder is good.

Goyfs are is so terrible that I want to stab my foot to ease the pain. Just... WHAT the hell is it suppose to be? It looks like someone took a few paint cans and just splashed them randomly to give us Gofy.

How many other good cards are plauged with bad art?

[DragoFireheart]

Winning pisses them off more because, guess what, they're dead! Not even David Gearheart can respond to that.

But I can.

Killing their draw could be a better play than making your draw better.

[Nihil Credo]

In Thresh, the point is moot. You just play Brainstorm/Ponder/Portent.

The Portent vs. Ponder discussion is more relevant to other "blue glue" deck like Fish or MeatHooks. IMO, those decks have so many more sorcery-speed cards (creatures, equipment, discard) that Portent's slowtripness becomes a significant drawback.

[Noman Peopled]

Holy mother ... this is one monster of a thread and I read it all. I have no wish to enter the debate SV/Portent/Ponder.

I only have a question; apart from theory, how often have you (you being people playing Portent) used its ability to screw an opponent over with a largely randomized library?

[Joon]

One time, against Faerie Stompy after a Deed shuffling Lands into his library again, all this while playing DAT.

[Nihil Credo]

I only have a question; apart from theory, how often have you (you being people playing Portent) used its ability to screw an opponent over with a largely randomized library?
In most decks, I'd estimate I target my opponent with Portent about once every 15-20 times I cast the spell.

With UG Threshold, however, the percentage rises dramatically. The deck usually goes for the tempo/aggro role and lacks any sort removal, so I try to go for Portent + Predict whenever I can in order to not have to deal with all sort of troublesome crap.

[DragoFireheart]

Some people are trying to tell me that Ponder is a bad or a "meh" spell. Someone on a forum I go to tried to tell me that Serum Visions is better than Ponder. :frown:

Please tell me this isn't the case?

[kabal]

Please tell me this isn't the case?

It certainly isn't the case. Without going into all the specifics, it lets you look at 3 cards and pick one to keep, where visions gives you a RANDOM card.

[DragoFireheart]

It certainly isn't the case. Without going into all the specifics, it lets you look at 3 cards and pick one to keep, where visions gives you a RANDOM card.

Thank you. I feel better hearing someone say this. I've had several people tell me that ponder is "meh".

At least they aren't crazy enough to think Brainstorm is bad.

Here is what one person tried to tell me:


It's close, but I think Serum Visions is probably a tad better. You draw a card either way, so that's moot. Yes, Ponder draws after the stack, but that doesn't make a huge difference. They still dig the same distance.
The nice thing about Serum visions is that's not all or nothing. Instead of keeping 1 good card and two bad cards, you keep the one good one, and get rid of the bad ones. You don't have to shuffle them all away.

Like I said though... they are very close. I think Serum Visions probably edges it out, but I haven't play with SM is a long time, and I've only experienced Ponder once.

It's just so wrong on so many levels. The only time SV would be better is [as someone said] you have 1 bomb and then two bricks.

[Volt]

Some people are trying to tell me that Ponder is a bad or a "meh" spell. Someone on a forum I go to tried to tell me that Serum Visions is better than Ponder. :frown:

Please tell me this isn't the case?

The one situation where SV is superior is when the top card of your library happens to be good and the next 2 happen to be drek. In almost any other scenario, Ponder is better. I run 4 Ponders in Meathooks, and I consider it to be a definite upgrade over Portent, which was a definite upgrade over Serum Visions. At this point, I don't see how a serious argument can be made against Ponder being the 2nd best cantrip in the game.

[T is for TOOL]

Stay on-topic.
-TOOL

[DragoFireheart]

Stay on-topic.
-TOOL

So what cantrips do you run? Do you use Ponder now or do you still use the other cantrips?